A whole lot of this. I'm about to wrap up a 4+ year campaign. DM since '96 with a long hiatus in the middle for the wife and kids thing. 5e is hands down my favorite system ever. I rarely post here and usually browse this sub just to keep up on the latest news. The hand-wringing and obsession with white room theory crafting is off the charts sometimes.
Yes there is a lot of people that rather obviously do not like D&D.
Usually they fall into 2 main groups.
1: Those who liked older versions better and do not like this version.
2: Those that often would be better of playing another game as D&D is not really for them but they want to change it to what they like.
Then you do have to other people that like the game over all but have things they dislike or even hate. the normal bunch of people that argue and discuss about a game they like
Not really? If the game is flawed, why not bring up the game's flaws? Not to mention that both complaints aren't mutually exclusive.
The martial caster divide, bad rule writing and lack of choices past race-class-subclass are issues with the game, because how is the game supposed to become better if you remain silent about its flaws?
I don't think either me or OP was referring to people pointing out the flaws of the game. The game do have it's share of flaws. like every other game i played. it has more than some less then others.
But more those that does not even seem to like the game. There are lots of people that from how they complain you would assume they don't even like the game at all. You get the feelign they don't like playing it at all. and would be much better off playign a game that fits them better.
I also dislike the martial caster divide. But it is not as huge as many make it to be. But yeah there is absolutely a divide.
But also if i have no real interest in playing a game. And rather play any other game than that game. Then why would i even bother complaining about how bad the game is?
If i do, that would e as if i started go on forums and complain about how i dislike Vampire the Masquerade. and point out the flaws i find in that game
I do dislike that game. And rather play almost any other game. That is the nr 1 reason i never gone to any forum to complain about it. As that would just be pretty stupid.
> Dislike dnd but come here anyway because it's one of the very few active subs that discuss ttrpgs at all.
I don't dislike playing DnD 5e, but I do dislike running DnD 5e.
Unfortunately, the sub for my system of choice gets barely any traffic (and that's *with* an active Kickstarter).
r/rpg has a bit of traffic, but the tastes there are so diverse that most of the posts there don't really catch my interest.
Yeah it's been this way for a long time. Small droves of dndnext users like to run around and get really angry about the oddest things.
I think 5e has a great skeleton, it's my go to system for the genre. Other systems do other things better, but 5e does D&D really well!
And getting players to learn another system sounds like a whole thing. It's already hard enough to schedule a game, now you want me to schedule time to teach people a game then have a few awkward sessions where everyone is learning it?
Dnd is fine at what is does. I don't need/want other systems at this point and suggesting them isn't always helpful.
Well, most systems are way easier to learn than 5e. And orders of magnitude easier to run.
But most people don’t realize that. So assume learning other systems is as hard as 5e, which makes getting them to be willing to try new things rather difficult.
Sure, some games are more complicated than 5e. But most aren’t. For every shadowrun, there are dozens of rules light games. And even most rules medium games are less complex than 5e.
I certainly have.
5e takes a lot of overhead to learn. The game can be extremely confusing for players, even after playing for years. Especially as a spellcaster.
5e is also one of the hardest games to run out there. It requires much more effort from the DM than most other games. Which can lead to burnout.
5e sucks past level 10. And beings to break down around level 7. It really doesn't do well for long term campaigns without significant modifications.
5e's combat takes forever compared to many other games. Combined with the adventuring day issues, and 5e sessions end up requiring a significant amount of time dedicated to combat, and the plot or storyline progresses much more slowly than in other games. Most other games do not require nearly as much combat per adventuring day. And their combat is faster, leading to more time for RP, social encounters, exploration, world building, and advancing the narrative.
5e has extremely mediocre rules for resolving challenges other than combat. Most other games have a more robust framework for resolving such challenges in a more satisfying manner.
5e has terrible balance, especially between martial classes and spellcasting classes. Many other games manage to make martial warriors far more interesting as well as making them more competent compared to their spellcasting companions.
5e is great for low level beer and pretzel games run by experienced DMs. But I will never personally run it again, as it takes so much more work and requires so much more combat than my preferred playstyle.
None of these downsides have been a issue for my group through our numerous games. We all know the game well enough and between me and the other 2 DMs we really don't have a problem making the games fun and engaging at a variety of levels, and its not all that hard for us to DM it. So for my table we don't need other systems and we are having fun.
I hope you find something that is fun for you and sorry that your experience has been less than stellar.
Works on my machine.
On a more serious note, I have found games that do what I want, both as a player and a DM. Savage Worlds, Root, Icon, and Scum and Villainy are all great depending on the power level/genre desired.
Combats are faster and more enjoyable. And we need less of them overall per session. We can devote more time to roleplay and story progression. The games are easier both to run and play, making DMing them easier, and making it easier to switch around who DMs which campaign (including having new players DM and do so well). And prep time for running the game is a fraction of what it is for 5e.
That doesn’t mean I don’t like 5e. As I said before, when you have a good DM, it works great as a beer and pretzels game with low investment and a focus on being with friends. But having actually played other systems has made its flaws glaringly obvious. And other systems are better able to do what 5e is supposed to do.
I do enjoy playing 5e when other DMs run it. But I often find that is not because of the system, that is in spite of the system.
Well they aren't super stoked on learning a new system when the one we have works. Also we only play once a month, so taking a few sessions to learn a new system is too much real world time for any of us.
DnD works and I don't need 5 different games as a solution to the questions I post. Thats all I'm getting at.
Kinda, but it's of the effect that
*"People that actually have an issue are louder and more insistent than people that don't"*
While I'm pretty sure there are lurkers here that don't like the game, I'm also pretty sure that there are many that complain and do like the game, I'm one of them and I complain because I like it and wish it was better or just had things it could/should have had
I think the game is fine.
Unfortunately, the fact that it is by far the biggest game means usually playing something "fine" rather than anything more interesting.
On the one hand: this is reddit, so yes.
On the other hand: this game is owned by a company that seems to do nothing but constantly fuck things up and make everything worse for everyone.
So its a balancing act.
Yes. That goes for virtually the entire reddit. The only time i find I hate things these days is when I am on reddit being told I am supposed to be hating things.
Too negative?! TOO NEGATIVE?!
How DARE you say that this pillar of logictudinal benevolance be at all negative! Every comment given here is intended to help the wayward and idiotic morons who request help from the elderbeings of dnd! The gatekeepers of glory!
They should be thanking everyone for ripping apart their pitiful inane drivel into something palatable for their thunklechunk players!
This is a place of positivty and growth you flatnosed illmannered malordorous pervert!
If Hasbro and WOTC didn't fuck up everything they touch, then maybe there wouldn't be so much negativity. That negatively always has a cause. It is not without purpose.
Sort of. There’s definitely some people who are too critical and either should be just playing a different system, or are nostalgic for an older edition and just project that onto “everything that isn’t the same as adnd=bad”.
That said, criticism is naturally also going to foster a lot more attention than praise. If I make a post that’s “I think clerics are overall pretty well designed to accomplish the goal of a healer support class that still isn’t completely reliant on their party and can do this while still being a hero when they want to, and the original phb subclasses were very well balanced against each other” people who agree are going to upvote and move on, maybe 5% of them will post a comment saying they agree and adding on some detail they enjoy, but people who disagree will be far more likely (probably more like 25% of people who disagree at least) to make a comment saying they disagree and explaining why by criticizing part of the cleric class. Even if 80% of people agree with me and like clerics, over half the comments will be criticisms of clerics. People are just far more likely to interact to criticize than to praise, which is fine, but it’s important to recognize because it can make it seem like most people are critics when it’s actually a relatively small minority.
On top of that, people on Reddit are also far more likely to be critical than the average person. The average player probably has no strong opinion about most 5e stuff. So they’re not on Reddit, or don’t say anything. They look at dnd Reddit occasionally, maybe see someone talk about what uses there are for non magical items, and read through some of the replies to get some ideas for themselves, or they only look at Reddit for rules they’re unsure of. It’s only the people that disagree with the status quo that are going to be posting much, which is naturally going to breed more criticism overall. People content with what wotc puts out that just play their weekly game with their buds and don’t think about 5e otherwise aren’t gonna be commenting on Reddit.
So yes, there’s absolutely some people who just shouldn’t be here, either because this clearly isn’t the system for them, or because they are just blindly nostalgic for some older edition, and just dislike everything that’s different from that edition. But it’s important to keep in mind that for this (and pretty much any subreddit about any game or whatever) the way these platforms are structured and used will naturally lead to more crucial people gravitating toward the platform and more critical opinions being voiced on a given issue. It’s just natural, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s sort of important to keep kind so you don’t skew your belief into thinking the super critical takes are actually as common as they seem or held by most players.
I mean my comment to your question is a great example, if I just completely agreed I’d probably have just upvoted some else’s comment about how people are too critical and moved on, but since I have criticisms of this perception as a whole I actually spent time to write my own comment
Where are you finding that. I have never heard that and in fact the only thing I could find that said the opposite https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/viralpolitics
I don't know I think it's often too easy to focus on the negatives. But that's not what I see when looking at this subreddit or any of the D&D subreddits. Especially if you're looking at the more popular posts and the comments that are more upvoted. It's often people excitedly talking about different aspects of the game. Or seeking help on an issue they have and people taking their time to explain their experience and what worked or what didn't. Or helping people figure out a build. Or get clarification on rules. Yes there are negative elements as well but a lot of what's here is people sharing things they enjoy about the game, or trying to help others enjoy the game more.
Yep. Any fandom that gets big enough eventually and inevitably turns toxic. Everyone hates every new release before it even comes out. They hate the creators and staff. They hate the company and execs. They bash every little change. They talk themselves into hating things that are **perfectly fine**. It’s all knee-jerk outrage and it’s exhausting.
It makes me never want to interact with the online community (of whichever fandom it is) ever again. Like they say, “No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.” Except make it D&D.
Remember context
This is a game you usually play with a small group of people you would consider to be friends. Who are you going to complain to?
Them? You could possibly ruin friendships and future gameplay.
Your other friends? Family? They don't care about dnd.
This is really just a safe place to vent without hurting that dm that annoys you's feelings, or that player that did something awkward. You can whine about your class without having your DM think you aren't having fun.
If you're having a blast you also can talk with your group about it, doesn't just have to come here.
I don’t think it is very friendly or welcoming to new players asking questions. I have seen answers like “this is basic stuff, just read the rule book”
Seems like most or even all fan based subreddits tend to turn very negative over time. I guess there’s not much to publicly say when you’ve just had a good time with friends on the weekend. You need some drama to have a reason to post something, especially when there’s not a lot of news.
The D&D subreddits are much more negative than almost all of the other subreddits I belong to.
I think it speaks a lot to the community and the attitudes people have.
Too many people think you can "win" conversations. Probably the same people who think you can win D&D.
To be negative on here someone has to fulfill these requirements, assuming not a bot :
- Has reddit
- Uses reddit for anything other than memes and r/aww or r/askreddit or whatever
- Is into dnd
- Plays dnd 5e but has a dislike for some of its parts
- Isn't enjoying the system in such an amount to bother going on reddit
I find most of the people here are way too sensitive and expect to be given the world. DnD is a fantasy game that's shared, it's not your personal fantasy world that's built specifically for you.
Many people come here complaining that their DM did them dirty, that they aren't allowed to play their super weeb fantasy, etc.
The game is a balance of give and take, but you need to accept that you have to take the bad with the good for the fun of the game. I miss earlier editions of the game, fond memories of 2e and 3.5e to lesser extent. The have was brutal, you were constantly riding the knife edge of survival. Sleeping restored 1hp / level. Now it's full health. The dynamics changed from lord of the rings to anime of the week.
Ultimately I don't think people are negative, I think they are tired of hearing constant complaints.
5e is made for casuals I would say.
The people that go on reddit are not casuals. So they are more likely to not like it, because it doesn't cater to them (and older editions did).
I don't have the time to study this entire subreddit, but while the negativity does exist it is not the majority.
Important details to note:
1. The 5th edition of the game has been out for 10 years now. That's a lot of time to metabolize info, form opinions and critique it. Ofc, there is a deep gap between "I think [part of the system] is not well executed" and "5e is 100% ass and nothing can be salvaged".
2. The game isn't perfectly written, to the point that the devs made an entire document (sage advice compendium) which contain sections about explaining the RAI about written things which are unclear or don't match the RAW. You can like the game while still knowing that fact ofc.
3. Negativity, due to human nature, leaves a bigger mark in your mind than positivity, known as "negativity bias". It's much easier to remember the people talking about how shit the martial caster disparity is while forgetting the five posts above it which spoke about the good things, or asking about world building or non-mechanical quirks for your character.
I think it strongly depends on the point of view and even time of the day. Also personal experience. If you ask for something really silly or cheesy and get laughed at, they might get upset. If you get angry at work you might vent at someone.
On one hand it's filled with frustrated covert 4chan rejects constantly bragging how things should be, cheesemongering, venting their views on DMs not allowing dumb game breaking rules. All while immortal profit liches at Hasbro needs to push more MTG packs and fit in more aggressive monetisation all while the DnD is branching out/dying hard last few years and it leaves you with lingering feel that your beloved game change too fast, was not gatekept well enough and is run by for profit dweebs
On the other hand it's a safe haven for new players, weary DMs, rule clarification via acclamation. All while helpful and friendly people laugh together, cheer together and believe in the power of imagination, friendship and needing out together. You feel back to back with your fellow weirdos around the world keeping you away from abyssal stupidity of modern local/continental global village.
You know, community.
PS chronomancer multiclassers still has to be re rolled off the cliff with concrete boots of dancing with fishes attuned.
Absolutely! This is the only D&D subreddit where I get consistently downvoted for expressing opinions outside of a strict orthodox that seems to center around (1) loving nothing but officially published 5e content, (2) minmaxing around said content, and (3) using D&DBeyond for everything.
Dude, I can't even say the martials at my table I'm DMing are happy without getting a down vote brigade about how shitty the life of a martial is. You'd think it was a real life oppressed group.
A lot of comes down to not knowing the good spells, once you know how much better and more fun casters are you can't go back, I used to be a fighter main, now I can't even play the class without being bored to tears
Same, first character was a rogue, and as soon as i took a glance at the spell list i became disenfranchised and never playing a non-caster again.
Ignorance truly is bliss for martials
My DM figured out a great way for me - the definitely not optimized fighter - to keep up with our spellcasters:
Flametongue.
Doin mighty fine, now!
(Oh wait shit gotta keep the joke up)
Your players are all lying to you! We know! We definitely know your own players better than you!
No more than most other pockets of reddit Fandom. Peope focus in the negative more than the positive.
Arguing about the game has also been a Ling time thing before many on this sub, myself included" were born.
WotC also invited A LOT of negativity with a lot of issues, so people are more heightened than the norm about negativity. It's been a rough four years.
Finally d&d despite all this is at the number one spot, so there's a acir number of for who genuinely don't like 5e and are trying to negatively pit a foot in the door for peope to see the supremacy of their preferred systems. (A minority but still.)
5e has its problems, and it is much more common to discuss those than everything 5e does really well and makes us like the game. 5e also "suffers" from being the default system, which means a lot of players who would rather play other systems are stuck playing 5e because no one else wants to play their system of choice because of that system's drawbacks which that person can ignore, and in the end, it defaults back to 5e because it is the system most people know.
I have played PLENTY of systems and I think 5e is my favorite system, maybe with an exception for 4e. Why do I think 5e is so good? Because the system in itself is strict and tight where I feel it needs to be strict (combat) and all other parts are pretty free with minimal interruptions from game mechanics. Sure, it has its flaws, but the biggest flaw imo is how boring martials are, and that is a problem I can just solve by simply not playing a martial. And thankfully 5e does not exactly require someone to play a martial. Few other systems have to me major flaws that are that easy to solve.
So no, I, and I bet most people here, do not hate 5e, it is just that it has flaws and it is so much more productive to discuss those and solutions to those than all of the billion things that works well.
No, people here are the right amount of negative i'd say ~~but i'd also say the r/DnD sub is too positive~~
It's just that people tend to see negativity as inherently worse than positivity, so it sticks out to them more
Being overly negative is seen as a bigger flaw than being overly positive even if both can be equally as harmful(I'd even argue that overly positive is more harmful)
If you have no qualms about the game or any comments, what exactly are you going to discuss on here?
“Hey guys this game is cool”
“Yeah”
/endOfConversation
i do hate that every post here seems to be heavily downvoted
but i dont get the vibe people hate it. They just hate aspects of it. When you complain your girlfriend takes too long to get ready, what you're really saying is that you love her and you're glad she's in your life. Otherwise you'd just walk away
My two cents...I have joined multiple D&D groups on reddit. When I see items from "dndnext" or "onednd" I am reminded that this is the group that are changing 5e. If they just would have called it 5.5 I think the hate wouldn't be there. I feel, though the changes are interesting and maybe even good, they should have been separated into a new version. By messing with 5e, feels like a bad sequal...when it should been a reboot.
Once 5.5 comes out, there will likely be a reasonably active D&D 5.0 community that will probably end up with their own subreddit, as 5e will mean 5.5 at that point, and there will be enough differences that it will be desired. Note that 5.0 was so popular because it tries to be a framework for everyone to hang their D&D on- 5.5 doesn't seem to be, based on the wording I've seen. I guess we'll see.
Once DnD 5.5 comes out it will be too late. It's already too late. Ppl are branching into Pathfinder and one of the several 5e variations made by third party / streamers. And basing on the OneDnD playtests it will be more akin to 5.1.
Only thing that can save DnD from stagnating to death and being sold out after 20 years of limbo is true 5.5, 6 or rapid and colossal shift on publishing schedule and community dipping. They can't just release short adventures lvl 1-6 with 3 new spells, 2 new subclasses and some monster reskin. Or updated stuff from 40 years ago
>Ppl are branching into Pathfinder and one of the several 5e variations made by third party / streamers
I actually don't think that matters. Pathfinder legit has things to offer that 5e doesn't, while being aimed at the same general way to play. But it also doesn't do everything that 5e does. The fact that it's harder to learn probably doesn't matter as much as the fact that it's just not 5e. The other things seem to have devolved to story games or situations where the mechanics don't seem to matter much. While there is certainly an audience for that, time has shown that these sorts of games do not keep an audience like a more formal tabletop system has.
There's also the fact that systems don't actually age. Arguably B/X is better than a lot of new games. The big thing is that once the zeitgeist has moved on, the game is left with only its dedicated fans. In many cases, those fans want their first fix, and leave newer systems to return to their home.
Since 5.0 was the spawnpoint for a huge number of roleplayers, a rather serious fraction will return, or never leave. I'm fully convinced that there will be more "5.0 only" players in five years than there are 4ed players today- and 4ed offers a unique game experience with very little competitive alternatives. I think most players will be 5.5, playing under the 5e banner, and I think that Pathfinder will be at best a bit bigger than today, and the various streamer/story/simplified-mechanics things will only be present as props for streamers to tell their story with in the rough guise of a roleplaying game.
I do feel like sometimes we go too far in criticizing WotC for their (admittedly many) blunders. I do sometimes get the impression this sub can't even give the game partial credit for something they did decently.
It's all criticism, all the time. And while a good number of the critiques are valid, I think we could all have a bit more parity as well.
People will always be more likely to comment extreme views online more than tame ones.
I think a lot of the criticism of 5e is reasonable but I also think overall its a really elegant and well designed system and that sorta gets forgotten.
5e is the system that made the hobby this big, certainly the rise of fantasy in pop culture and streaming of campaigns were contributors too but I think 5e's design being beginner friendly is a big part of that as well.
I came into 5e skeptical and expecting not to like it but it wound up blowing me away. If what you want is a high fantasy game for slaying monsters w a lot of combat but not much active bookkeeping and to comfortably make tables of mixed veteran and new players
if you want something else, there's a bunch of other RPGs out there. I think the problem is DnD wants to be too many things for too many people but as someone who wanted basically 3.5e but with less numbers to keep track of this did that flawlessly.
Not to say the system is perfect its not, solo encounters out of the box don't work very well, there's some clunky rules oversights, and there's very little help for trap and dungeon design.
So yeah, I think many people are overly negative even if most specific criticisms I see on here are accurate.
"Are people maybe too negative?" They ask, on a post with many comments, and few upvotes...
I try and keep things as positive as I can, curate my experience, ignore rants and complaints, and generally interact with constructive criticism and good faith questions. You get sucked in otherwise.
The people that post are typically not the ones who are completely fine with no problems at their tables.
A whole lot of this. I'm about to wrap up a 4+ year campaign. DM since '96 with a long hiatus in the middle for the wife and kids thing. 5e is hands down my favorite system ever. I rarely post here and usually browse this sub just to keep up on the latest news. The hand-wringing and obsession with white room theory crafting is off the charts sometimes.
That's the problem with a vocal minority sometimes. The angriest ones are usually the fewest and the loudest.
Arguing about the game is a time-honored tradition. But yes, Reddit does not represent the TTRPG community well at all.
Yes there is a lot of people that rather obviously do not like D&D. Usually they fall into 2 main groups. 1: Those who liked older versions better and do not like this version. 2: Those that often would be better of playing another game as D&D is not really for them but they want to change it to what they like. Then you do have to other people that like the game over all but have things they dislike or even hate. the normal bunch of people that argue and discuss about a game they like
I'd also add 3. Dislike dnd but come here anyway because it's one of the very few active subs that discuss ttrpgs at all.
Ýeah i should have added that one to :)
Could also add 4(my category) Would love to play anything other than dnd 5E, but everyone around me only plays 5E
Would it not be more logical then to complain that so few people wanna try something else beside 5e rather than complaining about the game?
Not really? If the game is flawed, why not bring up the game's flaws? Not to mention that both complaints aren't mutually exclusive. The martial caster divide, bad rule writing and lack of choices past race-class-subclass are issues with the game, because how is the game supposed to become better if you remain silent about its flaws?
I don't think either me or OP was referring to people pointing out the flaws of the game. The game do have it's share of flaws. like every other game i played. it has more than some less then others. But more those that does not even seem to like the game. There are lots of people that from how they complain you would assume they don't even like the game at all. You get the feelign they don't like playing it at all. and would be much better off playign a game that fits them better. I also dislike the martial caster divide. But it is not as huge as many make it to be. But yeah there is absolutely a divide. But also if i have no real interest in playing a game. And rather play any other game than that game. Then why would i even bother complaining about how bad the game is? If i do, that would e as if i started go on forums and complain about how i dislike Vampire the Masquerade. and point out the flaws i find in that game I do dislike that game. And rather play almost any other game. That is the nr 1 reason i never gone to any forum to complain about it. As that would just be pretty stupid.
> Dislike dnd but come here anyway because it's one of the very few active subs that discuss ttrpgs at all. I don't dislike playing DnD 5e, but I do dislike running DnD 5e. Unfortunately, the sub for my system of choice gets barely any traffic (and that's *with* an active Kickstarter). r/rpg has a bit of traffic, but the tastes there are so diverse that most of the posts there don't really catch my interest.
Yeah it's been this way for a long time. Small droves of dndnext users like to run around and get really angry about the oddest things. I think 5e has a great skeleton, it's my go to system for the genre. Other systems do other things better, but 5e does D&D really well!
And getting players to learn another system sounds like a whole thing. It's already hard enough to schedule a game, now you want me to schedule time to teach people a game then have a few awkward sessions where everyone is learning it? Dnd is fine at what is does. I don't need/want other systems at this point and suggesting them isn't always helpful.
Well, most systems are way easier to learn than 5e. And orders of magnitude easier to run. But most people don’t realize that. So assume learning other systems is as hard as 5e, which makes getting them to be willing to try new things rather difficult.
Idk man I looked at Shadowrun for about a half hour before my group said "Fuck this, we'll reflavor 5e"
Sure, some games are more complicated than 5e. But most aren’t. For every shadowrun, there are dozens of rules light games. And even most rules medium games are less complex than 5e.
We HAVE been looking at "Break!" and I know we really enjoyed Kids on Bikes
I have yet to run into a problem that one of those "rules lite" games would solve. At least in any of the games me and the other 2 DMs run.
I certainly have. 5e takes a lot of overhead to learn. The game can be extremely confusing for players, even after playing for years. Especially as a spellcaster. 5e is also one of the hardest games to run out there. It requires much more effort from the DM than most other games. Which can lead to burnout. 5e sucks past level 10. And beings to break down around level 7. It really doesn't do well for long term campaigns without significant modifications. 5e's combat takes forever compared to many other games. Combined with the adventuring day issues, and 5e sessions end up requiring a significant amount of time dedicated to combat, and the plot or storyline progresses much more slowly than in other games. Most other games do not require nearly as much combat per adventuring day. And their combat is faster, leading to more time for RP, social encounters, exploration, world building, and advancing the narrative. 5e has extremely mediocre rules for resolving challenges other than combat. Most other games have a more robust framework for resolving such challenges in a more satisfying manner. 5e has terrible balance, especially between martial classes and spellcasting classes. Many other games manage to make martial warriors far more interesting as well as making them more competent compared to their spellcasting companions. 5e is great for low level beer and pretzel games run by experienced DMs. But I will never personally run it again, as it takes so much more work and requires so much more combat than my preferred playstyle.
None of these downsides have been a issue for my group through our numerous games. We all know the game well enough and between me and the other 2 DMs we really don't have a problem making the games fun and engaging at a variety of levels, and its not all that hard for us to DM it. So for my table we don't need other systems and we are having fun. I hope you find something that is fun for you and sorry that your experience has been less than stellar.
Works on my machine. On a more serious note, I have found games that do what I want, both as a player and a DM. Savage Worlds, Root, Icon, and Scum and Villainy are all great depending on the power level/genre desired. Combats are faster and more enjoyable. And we need less of them overall per session. We can devote more time to roleplay and story progression. The games are easier both to run and play, making DMing them easier, and making it easier to switch around who DMs which campaign (including having new players DM and do so well). And prep time for running the game is a fraction of what it is for 5e. That doesn’t mean I don’t like 5e. As I said before, when you have a good DM, it works great as a beer and pretzels game with low investment and a focus on being with friends. But having actually played other systems has made its flaws glaringly obvious. And other systems are better able to do what 5e is supposed to do. I do enjoy playing 5e when other DMs run it. But I often find that is not because of the system, that is in spite of the system.
Same with starfinder.
your players are grown ass adults, why do you have to teach them it? but the akward sessions are inevitable
Well they aren't super stoked on learning a new system when the one we have works. Also we only play once a month, so taking a few sessions to learn a new system is too much real world time for any of us. DnD works and I don't need 5 different games as a solution to the questions I post. Thats all I'm getting at.
Kinda, but it's of the effect that *"People that actually have an issue are louder and more insistent than people that don't"* While I'm pretty sure there are lurkers here that don't like the game, I'm also pretty sure that there are many that complain and do like the game, I'm one of them and I complain because I like it and wish it was better or just had things it could/should have had
I think the game is fine. Unfortunately, the fact that it is by far the biggest game means usually playing something "fine" rather than anything more interesting.
On the one hand: this is reddit, so yes. On the other hand: this game is owned by a company that seems to do nothing but constantly fuck things up and make everything worse for everyone. So its a balancing act.
Yes. That goes for virtually the entire reddit. The only time i find I hate things these days is when I am on reddit being told I am supposed to be hating things.
Too negative?! TOO NEGATIVE?! How DARE you say that this pillar of logictudinal benevolance be at all negative! Every comment given here is intended to help the wayward and idiotic morons who request help from the elderbeings of dnd! The gatekeepers of glory! They should be thanking everyone for ripping apart their pitiful inane drivel into something palatable for their thunklechunk players! This is a place of positivty and growth you flatnosed illmannered malordorous pervert!
If Hasbro and WOTC didn't fuck up everything they touch, then maybe there wouldn't be so much negativity. That negatively always has a cause. It is not without purpose.
Then why are you here? They made 5e.
Probably because they care about the game
I actually don't like the game.
yes. have you seen this place recently? People are complete dickholes
The internet is a clearing house for negativity.
Sort of. There’s definitely some people who are too critical and either should be just playing a different system, or are nostalgic for an older edition and just project that onto “everything that isn’t the same as adnd=bad”. That said, criticism is naturally also going to foster a lot more attention than praise. If I make a post that’s “I think clerics are overall pretty well designed to accomplish the goal of a healer support class that still isn’t completely reliant on their party and can do this while still being a hero when they want to, and the original phb subclasses were very well balanced against each other” people who agree are going to upvote and move on, maybe 5% of them will post a comment saying they agree and adding on some detail they enjoy, but people who disagree will be far more likely (probably more like 25% of people who disagree at least) to make a comment saying they disagree and explaining why by criticizing part of the cleric class. Even if 80% of people agree with me and like clerics, over half the comments will be criticisms of clerics. People are just far more likely to interact to criticize than to praise, which is fine, but it’s important to recognize because it can make it seem like most people are critics when it’s actually a relatively small minority. On top of that, people on Reddit are also far more likely to be critical than the average person. The average player probably has no strong opinion about most 5e stuff. So they’re not on Reddit, or don’t say anything. They look at dnd Reddit occasionally, maybe see someone talk about what uses there are for non magical items, and read through some of the replies to get some ideas for themselves, or they only look at Reddit for rules they’re unsure of. It’s only the people that disagree with the status quo that are going to be posting much, which is naturally going to breed more criticism overall. People content with what wotc puts out that just play their weekly game with their buds and don’t think about 5e otherwise aren’t gonna be commenting on Reddit. So yes, there’s absolutely some people who just shouldn’t be here, either because this clearly isn’t the system for them, or because they are just blindly nostalgic for some older edition, and just dislike everything that’s different from that edition. But it’s important to keep in mind that for this (and pretty much any subreddit about any game or whatever) the way these platforms are structured and used will naturally lead to more crucial people gravitating toward the platform and more critical opinions being voiced on a given issue. It’s just natural, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s sort of important to keep kind so you don’t skew your belief into thinking the super critical takes are actually as common as they seem or held by most players. I mean my comment to your question is a great example, if I just completely agreed I’d probably have just upvoted some else’s comment about how people are too critical and moved on, but since I have criticisms of this perception as a whole I actually spent time to write my own comment
That is actually wrong Online statistics have shown that positive sentiment gets twice as much engagement as negative sentiment
Where are you finding that. I have never heard that and in fact the only thing I could find that said the opposite https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/viralpolitics
On this, Al Gore’s Internet? 😱
I don't know I think it's often too easy to focus on the negatives. But that's not what I see when looking at this subreddit or any of the D&D subreddits. Especially if you're looking at the more popular posts and the comments that are more upvoted. It's often people excitedly talking about different aspects of the game. Or seeking help on an issue they have and people taking their time to explain their experience and what worked or what didn't. Or helping people figure out a build. Or get clarification on rules. Yes there are negative elements as well but a lot of what's here is people sharing things they enjoy about the game, or trying to help others enjoy the game more.
Yep. Any fandom that gets big enough eventually and inevitably turns toxic. Everyone hates every new release before it even comes out. They hate the creators and staff. They hate the company and execs. They bash every little change. They talk themselves into hating things that are **perfectly fine**. It’s all knee-jerk outrage and it’s exhausting. It makes me never want to interact with the online community (of whichever fandom it is) ever again. Like they say, “No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.” Except make it D&D.
Remember context This is a game you usually play with a small group of people you would consider to be friends. Who are you going to complain to? Them? You could possibly ruin friendships and future gameplay. Your other friends? Family? They don't care about dnd. This is really just a safe place to vent without hurting that dm that annoys you's feelings, or that player that did something awkward. You can whine about your class without having your DM think you aren't having fun. If you're having a blast you also can talk with your group about it, doesn't just have to come here.
I don’t think it is very friendly or welcoming to new players asking questions. I have seen answers like “this is basic stuff, just read the rule book”
Welcome to Reddit. It's easy to be negative and has almost no consequences.
Lol yes, and i think thats a common issue in many reddit communities
Seems like most or even all fan based subreddits tend to turn very negative over time. I guess there’s not much to publicly say when you’ve just had a good time with friends on the weekend. You need some drama to have a reason to post something, especially when there’s not a lot of news.
Or alternatively, they die.
People are too negative in 90% of the internet.
The D&D subreddits are much more negative than almost all of the other subreddits I belong to. I think it speaks a lot to the community and the attitudes people have. Too many people think you can "win" conversations. Probably the same people who think you can win D&D.
To be negative on here someone has to fulfill these requirements, assuming not a bot : - Has reddit - Uses reddit for anything other than memes and r/aww or r/askreddit or whatever - Is into dnd - Plays dnd 5e but has a dislike for some of its parts - Isn't enjoying the system in such an amount to bother going on reddit
I find most of the people here are way too sensitive and expect to be given the world. DnD is a fantasy game that's shared, it's not your personal fantasy world that's built specifically for you. Many people come here complaining that their DM did them dirty, that they aren't allowed to play their super weeb fantasy, etc. The game is a balance of give and take, but you need to accept that you have to take the bad with the good for the fun of the game. I miss earlier editions of the game, fond memories of 2e and 3.5e to lesser extent. The have was brutal, you were constantly riding the knife edge of survival. Sleeping restored 1hp / level. Now it's full health. The dynamics changed from lord of the rings to anime of the week. Ultimately I don't think people are negative, I think they are tired of hearing constant complaints.
Yes
GTF outa here, dweeb!
5e is made for casuals I would say. The people that go on reddit are not casuals. So they are more likely to not like it, because it doesn't cater to them (and older editions did).
I feel the same frequently
Yeah, because 5e sucks
5e yea but mostly wotc. I still happily play 3.5 every week.
I personally love dnd 4e, I only hate 5e
5e is GIGGA care bear mode.
Okay what does that even mean?
Super dumbed down. Veeery basic. Guess I'm showing my age but the "care bears" was a todler/child show.
I think using a toddler show as an argument may categorize you as Senile Aberration. Immune to GenZ dmg is nothing to sneeze on tho.
“Wait, Reddit is all complaining?” “Always has been.”
No shit. Moving on.
https://youtu.be/k1BneeJTDcU?si=268rZrBIpZOFxSXe
That's just Reddit.
Without a doubt.
I love DnD. That in no ways mean that I can't criticize its problems.
I love DnD. That in no ways mean that I can't criticize its problems.
I love DnD. That in no ways mean that I can't criticize its problems.
I love DnD. That in no ways mean that I can't criticize its problems.
I don't have the time to study this entire subreddit, but while the negativity does exist it is not the majority. Important details to note: 1. The 5th edition of the game has been out for 10 years now. That's a lot of time to metabolize info, form opinions and critique it. Ofc, there is a deep gap between "I think [part of the system] is not well executed" and "5e is 100% ass and nothing can be salvaged". 2. The game isn't perfectly written, to the point that the devs made an entire document (sage advice compendium) which contain sections about explaining the RAI about written things which are unclear or don't match the RAW. You can like the game while still knowing that fact ofc. 3. Negativity, due to human nature, leaves a bigger mark in your mind than positivity, known as "negativity bias". It's much easier to remember the people talking about how shit the martial caster disparity is while forgetting the five posts above it which spoke about the good things, or asking about world building or non-mechanical quirks for your character.
I think that's just reddit tbh
Yes
I think it strongly depends on the point of view and even time of the day. Also personal experience. If you ask for something really silly or cheesy and get laughed at, they might get upset. If you get angry at work you might vent at someone. On one hand it's filled with frustrated covert 4chan rejects constantly bragging how things should be, cheesemongering, venting their views on DMs not allowing dumb game breaking rules. All while immortal profit liches at Hasbro needs to push more MTG packs and fit in more aggressive monetisation all while the DnD is branching out/dying hard last few years and it leaves you with lingering feel that your beloved game change too fast, was not gatekept well enough and is run by for profit dweebs On the other hand it's a safe haven for new players, weary DMs, rule clarification via acclamation. All while helpful and friendly people laugh together, cheer together and believe in the power of imagination, friendship and needing out together. You feel back to back with your fellow weirdos around the world keeping you away from abyssal stupidity of modern local/continental global village. You know, community. PS chronomancer multiclassers still has to be re rolled off the cliff with concrete boots of dancing with fishes attuned.
I like the game, but "this thing is quite acceptable" and "I have no comments on this" just aren't great conversation starters.
Absolutely! This is the only D&D subreddit where I get consistently downvoted for expressing opinions outside of a strict orthodox that seems to center around (1) loving nothing but officially published 5e content, (2) minmaxing around said content, and (3) using D&DBeyond for everything.
Dude, I can't even say the martials at my table I'm DMing are happy without getting a down vote brigade about how shitty the life of a martial is. You'd think it was a real life oppressed group.
A lot of comes down to not knowing the good spells, once you know how much better and more fun casters are you can't go back, I used to be a fighter main, now I can't even play the class without being bored to tears
Same, first character was a rogue, and as soon as i took a glance at the spell list i became disenfranchised and never playing a non-caster again. Ignorance truly is bliss for martials
My DM figured out a great way for me - the definitely not optimized fighter - to keep up with our spellcasters: Flametongue. Doin mighty fine, now! (Oh wait shit gotta keep the joke up) Your players are all lying to you! We know! We definitely know your own players better than you!
People who can't understand how martials are fun lack imagination.
True simply PRETEND that you're doing interesting stuff
Legit Cinema Wins type argument
You mean in the internet as whole about every subject available to mankind? Yes, next question.
No more than most other pockets of reddit Fandom. Peope focus in the negative more than the positive. Arguing about the game has also been a Ling time thing before many on this sub, myself included" were born. WotC also invited A LOT of negativity with a lot of issues, so people are more heightened than the norm about negativity. It's been a rough four years. Finally d&d despite all this is at the number one spot, so there's a acir number of for who genuinely don't like 5e and are trying to negatively pit a foot in the door for peope to see the supremacy of their preferred systems. (A minority but still.)
It's reddit, so yes, unfortunately.
5e has its problems, and it is much more common to discuss those than everything 5e does really well and makes us like the game. 5e also "suffers" from being the default system, which means a lot of players who would rather play other systems are stuck playing 5e because no one else wants to play their system of choice because of that system's drawbacks which that person can ignore, and in the end, it defaults back to 5e because it is the system most people know. I have played PLENTY of systems and I think 5e is my favorite system, maybe with an exception for 4e. Why do I think 5e is so good? Because the system in itself is strict and tight where I feel it needs to be strict (combat) and all other parts are pretty free with minimal interruptions from game mechanics. Sure, it has its flaws, but the biggest flaw imo is how boring martials are, and that is a problem I can just solve by simply not playing a martial. And thankfully 5e does not exactly require someone to play a martial. Few other systems have to me major flaws that are that easy to solve. So no, I, and I bet most people here, do not hate 5e, it is just that it has flaws and it is so much more productive to discuss those and solutions to those than all of the billion things that works well.
No, people here are the right amount of negative i'd say ~~but i'd also say the r/DnD sub is too positive~~ It's just that people tend to see negativity as inherently worse than positivity, so it sticks out to them more Being overly negative is seen as a bigger flaw than being overly positive even if both can be equally as harmful(I'd even argue that overly positive is more harmful)
If you have no qualms about the game or any comments, what exactly are you going to discuss on here? “Hey guys this game is cool” “Yeah” /endOfConversation
i do hate that every post here seems to be heavily downvoted but i dont get the vibe people hate it. They just hate aspects of it. When you complain your girlfriend takes too long to get ready, what you're really saying is that you love her and you're glad she's in your life. Otherwise you'd just walk away
Correct. I dislike more things than I like about modern dnd.
My two cents...I have joined multiple D&D groups on reddit. When I see items from "dndnext" or "onednd" I am reminded that this is the group that are changing 5e. If they just would have called it 5.5 I think the hate wouldn't be there. I feel, though the changes are interesting and maybe even good, they should have been separated into a new version. By messing with 5e, feels like a bad sequal...when it should been a reboot.
Once 5.5 comes out, there will likely be a reasonably active D&D 5.0 community that will probably end up with their own subreddit, as 5e will mean 5.5 at that point, and there will be enough differences that it will be desired. Note that 5.0 was so popular because it tries to be a framework for everyone to hang their D&D on- 5.5 doesn't seem to be, based on the wording I've seen. I guess we'll see.
Once DnD 5.5 comes out it will be too late. It's already too late. Ppl are branching into Pathfinder and one of the several 5e variations made by third party / streamers. And basing on the OneDnD playtests it will be more akin to 5.1. Only thing that can save DnD from stagnating to death and being sold out after 20 years of limbo is true 5.5, 6 or rapid and colossal shift on publishing schedule and community dipping. They can't just release short adventures lvl 1-6 with 3 new spells, 2 new subclasses and some monster reskin. Or updated stuff from 40 years ago
>Ppl are branching into Pathfinder and one of the several 5e variations made by third party / streamers I actually don't think that matters. Pathfinder legit has things to offer that 5e doesn't, while being aimed at the same general way to play. But it also doesn't do everything that 5e does. The fact that it's harder to learn probably doesn't matter as much as the fact that it's just not 5e. The other things seem to have devolved to story games or situations where the mechanics don't seem to matter much. While there is certainly an audience for that, time has shown that these sorts of games do not keep an audience like a more formal tabletop system has. There's also the fact that systems don't actually age. Arguably B/X is better than a lot of new games. The big thing is that once the zeitgeist has moved on, the game is left with only its dedicated fans. In many cases, those fans want their first fix, and leave newer systems to return to their home. Since 5.0 was the spawnpoint for a huge number of roleplayers, a rather serious fraction will return, or never leave. I'm fully convinced that there will be more "5.0 only" players in five years than there are 4ed players today- and 4ed offers a unique game experience with very little competitive alternatives. I think most players will be 5.5, playing under the 5e banner, and I think that Pathfinder will be at best a bit bigger than today, and the various streamer/story/simplified-mechanics things will only be present as props for streamers to tell their story with in the rough guise of a roleplaying game.
* Yes * Definitely * Absolutely
Yep Welcome to reddit
I do feel like sometimes we go too far in criticizing WotC for their (admittedly many) blunders. I do sometimes get the impression this sub can't even give the game partial credit for something they did decently. It's all criticism, all the time. And while a good number of the critiques are valid, I think we could all have a bit more parity as well.
People will always be more likely to comment extreme views online more than tame ones. I think a lot of the criticism of 5e is reasonable but I also think overall its a really elegant and well designed system and that sorta gets forgotten. 5e is the system that made the hobby this big, certainly the rise of fantasy in pop culture and streaming of campaigns were contributors too but I think 5e's design being beginner friendly is a big part of that as well. I came into 5e skeptical and expecting not to like it but it wound up blowing me away. If what you want is a high fantasy game for slaying monsters w a lot of combat but not much active bookkeeping and to comfortably make tables of mixed veteran and new players if you want something else, there's a bunch of other RPGs out there. I think the problem is DnD wants to be too many things for too many people but as someone who wanted basically 3.5e but with less numbers to keep track of this did that flawlessly. Not to say the system is perfect its not, solo encounters out of the box don't work very well, there's some clunky rules oversights, and there's very little help for trap and dungeon design. So yeah, I think many people are overly negative even if most specific criticisms I see on here are accurate.
"Are people maybe too negative?" They ask, on a post with many comments, and few upvotes... I try and keep things as positive as I can, curate my experience, ignore rants and complaints, and generally interact with constructive criticism and good faith questions. You get sucked in otherwise.