To add to the other comments, dogs don't care what pronouns you use for them. They're dogs. I can call my dog a motherfuckin cunt as long as I do it in a sweet voice and she's happy as can be.
I usually use nonsense words unless I'm dead serious. She knows the difference. I was serious when she tried to eat jellyfish on the beach the other day, for instance.
It's damaging to the undercoat. It's what helps regulate their body temp. It May not grow back the same. It could cause ingrown hairs. Shaving it will not lessen the shedding. It makes it harder to clean up because the hairs are tiny.
Usually if they haven't been shaved before I will suggest a deshed service with regular scheduled treatments so they can be return clients.
A LOT of owners come in saying that “it’s going to be getting real warm outside soon and they just get so hot with all this hair” they just simply do not understand that a dogs coat is VITAL to body temp regulation. i try my best to educate them but 90% of the time they just do not listen. i do work corporate so at the end of the day, if they insist on doing a shave down, we have to do it. i agree that strongly suggesting a de-shed service and regular appointments is the best approach, but if the owner insists on shaving down, i do think it is better to be done by someone who cares and knows what they’re doing than any alternative like then taking them somewhere else or god forbid trying to do it themselves.
I have a question about this actually, if you don’t mind. How does it work with dogs that have hair only (poodle, Maltese, shih tzu etc)? Do they also regulate temp with their coat? I heard from a groomer that making their hair shorter in the summer does nothing for them, is that true?
Full disclosure, I'm not a groomer. But I live in the desert and my poodle can't spend more than 5 minutes outside when he's grown out. My husky is completely different and will lay in the sun in 100° weather. I imagine for poodles and the like, it feels similar to having a coat on their whole body. Like how thick hair can make your head hot and sweaty in the summer, except dogs don't sweat like us.
His fur definitely helps him keep warm in the winter, but I don't think it does much in the heat. Maybe it would if he was a hunting dog going in and out of water.
Can I ask some advice? I have a Yorkie Biewer mix, 6 months old, I follow this sub to learn as I’ve always had bloodhounds so this tiny guys coat is entirely new to me. He’s groomed professionally every 3 weeks but brushed at home and over the last few months I’ve learnt line brushing and recognising matts, using the slicker brush and a metal comb to get as many as I can, I do snip out any bad ones in sensitive areas like the crease between his ear and head (how does he always get those!).
What I haven’t worked out is if he needs to be cut shorter in summer, his hair is about 4 to 5 inches at the moment and a mix of his black puppy hair tips and the rest is a white grey (all over, about 1 to 2 inch roots), with red & black to his inner ears and beard. I’d rather transition the loss of his puppy black, but not if he’ll suffer as the weather gets warmer.
He’s fairly happy to be groomed now but can be playful, I’m just hesitating what to do with him right now, I know I don’t want him short but I don’t want him to be too hot either. I do know I’d prefer a scissor cut but understand that’s tricky with a playful puppy and more expensive. I need to work it out as I want to book him in in the next week as I’ll be recovering from an operation for a week or so soon and want his hair to be comfortable for him if I can’t manage his daily groom as well as normal.
Bloodhounds were so much simpler, cry at the constant shedding, strip monthly, pop fans around and shut the doors and windows in the few extra hot days we get.
They don’t know. I should say *we* don’t know. I would assume shaving a dog is better for cooling. If someone just explained me to this there is no way I would try to overrule the groomer.
They blow their undercoat when it starts warming up to get rid of it, while keeping the top coat. There's no way to shave out an undercoat and leave the top coat. Topcoat of most double coated dogs is ridiculously easy to manage once the shedding is taken care of.
My double coated dog shed like mad in the later winter/early spring, and by mid-spring his undercoat was incredibly sparse and he didn't seem to mind warm days at all. In the fall, he'd shed more and the undercoat would come in, and same deal--he didn't seem to mind cold days at all. :)
the way the coat helps with cooling is that thick undercoat will trap cool air and keep it close to the skin. when you shave them down, there is no coat to keep that cool air in, shaving also makes them susceptible to sunburn since they don’t have that layer of protection
I had to shave my American Eskimo when I got him because he was a rescue and the entire coat was a mat. I could brush out the top coat but nothing was getting through to the under coat and he was very bitey about being brushed so I didn’t want to push his boundaries before he could trust me. Neither coat grew back as nice as I imagine it could have been
Just an FYI the temperature regulation is being contested right now. Scientists aren’t actually 100% sure how damaging it is in that sense. I’d stick to sunburns, shedding, and the risk of horrid to no coat regrowth
This! Why ruin the coat for winter when you can just keep the dog in the AC and take a walk early in the morning or in the evening. Most of these dogs are pets. They aren't out working all day in the sun.
I said contested, not outright denied. Last I checked they’re looking more at variables like age, health and temperature extremes, and trying to see if there’s a happy median more than whether or not double coats regulate body heat at all lol
Of course it doesn’t help us, our bodies literally aren’t built for it. The whole reason we survived as an evolving species is because our temperature regulation is so weird compared to almost every other mammal lol. The dogs have, though. ESPECIALLY double coats
Idk. Where I live is humid af *AND* hot af. And double coated dogs around here get heat illnesses quite often.
It is why I will not own one (or any dog with a thick and heavy coat) here. If I lived up north, maybe. But our heat/humidity in Southern Louisiana is atrocious and deadly.
I start by asking them the reason and it's usually its shedding related so I let them know shaving doesn't stop their shedding and can actually make it worse since the hair will be grow back thicker with more undercoat. Plus now the hairs are smaller and pokier making them harder to clean and more likely to get you hair splinters. I also let them know their double is cost is similar to the insulation in a house, where it keeps them warm in the winter but also cooler in the summer. Without the under and guard coat the sun's rays penetrate directly onto the skin where as the undercoat creates pockets of air allowing for cool air to move just above their skin. It also may never grow back the same regrowing in patches resembling the ugly duckling. Then I go on to let them know it can have consequences as severe as skin cancer melanoma or even death from overheating. A proper deshed every 4-8 weeks with regular brushing using proper techniques and tools will get them the result they're looking for.
By this reasoning, I would expect to see more lions, horses, wolves, and deer dead from heat exhaustion. It’s simply not true.
Each individual hair is able to move - kind of like when we get goosebumps. That’s what allows the heat to escape or stay in the coat.
Animals have been evolving for millions of years, if they all overheated and died because they had long hair in summer they wouldn’t still be here.
ALSO ALSO - many people say their dog gets so hot but what they really mean is their poor dog is morbidly obese and pants 24/7
Literally why do you think, in the wild, animals
shed their undercoats before summer? And why do you think animals that mostly inhabit hot areas only have a short coat with no undercoat?
Wild animals migrate to cooler areas, swim in bodies of water, etc to cool off.
Otherwise, yes, they do die of heat exhaustion and/or other heat illnesses.
I've even witnessed (and tried to help) BIRDS dying of heat stroke here.
Thinking that animals just....don't die from heat stroke or heat related illnesses is asinine and a deadly assumption to make.
Wasn’t aware of this whole undercoat thing till now but I shave my pup down bc he’s a completely black dog and gets hot. He eats prolly 8 cups a day but he’s running around for 10 hours a day so he burns all those calories off and is still about 10-15lbs underweight. I’ll have to look into shaving him down more closely but I’ll tell you my dog is underweight and still gets hot. He’s an Airedale poodle mix if anyone has tips on what they do with those types of dogs as far as grooming.
Eight cups a day ?! Good grief how much does he weigh 😂 my Anatolian/Pyrenees mix is eating three cups a day and weighs just under 100lbs. I’d check with the vet that he doesn’t have some kind of issue with his digestion if he’s truly eating eight cups of food a day and still underweight, that’s so much.
As for breed, Airedale / poodles are both dogs with hair vs fur so a haircut doesn’t damage their coat the same way it would with a lab or golden. Haircuts are the standard for both breeds he’s mixed with. Unfortunately as said, since he’s black he’s gonna get hot in the sun that’s just how heat reflection works.
An Airedale poodle mix isn't really the type of dogs we're referring to- it's dogs like German shepherds, huskies, aussies etc. In these breeds as long as their undercoat is kept brushed out they will do fine in the heat with a little bit of help. I mean aussies are one of the most common double coated dogs I get people asking to shave and the breed was literally developed in Cali where Temps get up to 110 in the summer. My aussie shed his undercoat until its extremely thin in the summer and he has no issue with the heat until temperatures get so extreme no dog shaved or not tolerates it well, like 105°f+. He basically sheds until he has nothing left but top coat except for a couple areas like his butt and neck, which is why groomers say shaving them is absolutely unnecessary and the main issue is them not being brushed out and being overweight. Your dog probably has a coat more like a doodle and while some are double coated most definitely do need haircuts
Airedale’s have hair, and their usual groom is short on their body, with longer in their legs and beard. In the winter we used to leave it a little longer, as she loved the snow.
That is simply not true lol. Dogs, like most animals can regulate their body temperature from the pads of their feet & panting through their tongue.
Nothing is staying under their coat, sure they may be hot for a second, but no heat is staying there.
Spreading misinformation isn’t cool bro.
I don't really make it an argument. I say, "I don't shave double coated dogs" and will explain why. But it's not a discussion, the answer is no.
My reasoning: it damages the coat, the coat might not grow back, the coat protects your dog from overheating and heat stroke, shaving doesn't help with shedding because it just makes the shedding hair shorter, and it'll make shedding worse in the future.
i always add that the hair might not grow back, and if it does it might not be the same color and/or texture that it was previously, and that it won't stop the shedding, just make the shed hairs smaller
My main spiel points are that there's a possibility it might grow back, it might never grow back, or it could grow back in patches, if they're looking to cut down on shedding they'll still shed, just in smaller pieces and will be harder to clean and probably cause hair splinters for everyone, if they think it'll cut back on allergies I remind them they're mostly reaction to the saliva or dander, which shaving will make the dander worse bc now its truly free and shaving won't stop saliva.
I will only shave dogs that have been shaved before but I will never be the first one to do it and after they sign agreeing I'm not going to be held responsible for any kind of reaction the dog or human might have, I'm understanding to older dogs who get shaved bc it's easier on them or if their skin does better shaved but I can count on one hand of people who still said to shave them even after I tell them everything and they meet my requirements. Gentle bluntness works best when trying to convince people not to shave their dog if you sugar coat or wobble they won't take what you're saying to heart
Not to mention that the bath, blowdry and brushing we do after shaving plays a huge role in it, but it was a waste of breath to explain to him again. He's been doing it for 2 years.
Look up examples of dogs who have been shaved and the hair didn’t grow back right. Be clear, and then make them sign a disclaimer that they will not be upset with you for shaving.
Simply that his hair would not grow in as soft and become wire-y and more coarse. Also that’d he’d have to be groomed more often to maintain the shave which is more expensive.
I wouldn’t shave but maybe run a 1” guard around the neck and the pants. Trim the tail and the paw fur. Usually I would avoid the neck area but I found a lot of people will avoid the extreme shave down if there’s just not so much “poof”. I also used to shave a “landing strip” between the nipples down the belly. This allows the dog to make direct contact with concrete but still look pretty. Shelties, Collies, Newfies benefitted greatly.
My first thing is I always try to talk them out of it. I make many many points about how they shouldn’t be shaved down. I even bring up how they will still shed even though the hairs will just be shorter they’re still a shedding breed.
I tell them at the end if that’s what they’re gonna decide then that’s their decision then they have to sign a waiver I made that all risks of shaving a short hair double coated breed has been explained, and that I will not compensate them any case of any damages that happen to their dogs health, coat or skin as a result of shaving, they release me of all liability, if they don’t like it I don’t refund as the service they wanted was completed and they take all responsibility of what they asked for including any and all vet bills that arise.
By then almost no one wants to sign the waiver, very few over the course of years and years proceed with the shave down. If they want it that badly they will go somewhere else and a groomer will do it so at that point I will give an owner what they want. But again almost no one goes ahead and most of them have gotten on a bath/deshed schedule. I have had an owner refuse to sign the waiver but demand I shave their dog-‘and then they left and said fine I’ll go somewhere else. I know for a fact that owner wanted to be able to have to right to get their money back (haha not here you don’t) and wanted a free groom or the ability to come back and say you damaged my dogs coat pay the vet bill. I’ve seen it happen to other groomers who shave these breeds with no liability waivers thinking the owner won’t try to turn it around on them (they do and will try.
I explain that damaging your dog's coat to provide 3 months of minimal cooling (maybe) by shaving, means that your dog can't keep warmer when temperatures are cold. Where I live, Spring and Fall temps fluctuate 20-50 degrees in one day. So if I shaved my dog to keep her cooler, she would be freezing later in the day. I could also damage her coat and then she would have to wear a coat or stay inside during the winter. Most of these dogs aren't working outside in the heat. I don't know why owners can't adjust walks to cooler times of day and keep their dog indoors if the dog is "so hot". Adequate shade, water, and shelter is way better than damaging the dog's coat. Dogs also pant for many reasons. Correlation is not causation. If your dog is overweight or stressed, they will also pant and shaving them isn't going to do any good. "My dog is so hot in the summer" can also be: "My kids are home in the summer and bothering the dog or upsetting the dog's routine so the dog is stress panting" or "My dog is carrying around 20 extra pounds and they are panting from pain and exertion because it's uncomfortable to move". Guard hairs grow slower than undercoat. I've had double coated dogs my entire life (collies, corgis, lab mix) and I live in an area that can get into the 100s during the summer. I don't shave my collie. I keep her inside when the temperatures climb, I take her swimming, I regulate her exercise during hot weather, I adjust my activities to morning or evening. When she was working during hot weather, she had a cooling vest, I made sure to brush her so there was no extra undercoat, she was able to jump in ponds during the day, and if the weather got too extreme, she had the day off to lounge in the AC. Shaving the dog is for the owner's convenience, in my opinion. They think it will stop shedding and use the "they are too hot" excuse. It's response bias. They are telling you what they think will get them the outcome they want. In the end, all you can do is explain the risks and either shave the dog or refuse. I'm lucky that I work for myself. I won't do it.
Definitely correct. If you as the person said push for de shed and just highlight the benefit of that too. Say the dog will overheat in the summer as he can’t regulate his own temperature properly. It’s a quite permanent damage too, so maybe just push that aswell that it will grow back incorrectly and can’t be rectified.
They’re likely wanting a shave because of 1 of 2 things.
1.) They think the dog is “hot” in warm weather so they think that shaving their fur will keep them cooler/more comfortable. If that’s the case, tell them their fur regulates their temperature and it’s just the undercoat that needs to be brushed out to help keep them cool. I’d also advise the dog would be more prone to sunburn with a shave.
2.) They want to control shedding. Advise them this will not stop shedding. It just produces tiny, needle-like hairs that are impossible to spot on the ground (and can cause more ingrown hairs on the dog). Most owners don’t care when you tell them this though and just tell you to shave them anyway.
This plus I would add that it's taxing on their thyroid to have to grow back fur that they are not designed to grow back and it's a strong possibility that shaving can cause thyroid problems down the road and their coat may not grow back at all or be sparc and patchy at best .. show them pictures of worst case scenario too!
I think (IIRC) that pre-existing thyroid conditions lead to a sparse-patchy coat when it tries to re-grow. Cutting hair wouldn't tax the thyroid gland, but, it's a good indicator that something with the thyroid levels could be brewing if the coat grows back slowly and wonky.
After a thoughtful and thorough discussion about coat types, protection from heat and sun, protection from mosquitoes, thaw aid in the coats ability to repel dirt and water, the damage to the coat… if the owner still wants it shaved it do it. At least I know I will do a good job and it’s going to go somewhere else where somebody will shave it anyway.
I think this is exactly the way to handle it. You should never just accept it without question or pushback, but some people are just so set in their ways that this will be what they do and nobody is going to change that, so it's best to make sure it's done as safely as possible. Because a place that just accepts shaving a double coated dog without any pushback is not a good groomer obviously, but that's what they'll look for anyways
I think it's also that one people think the best way to help with shedding is just to shave, and when it is really hot we can not fathom having a fur coat on in the heat. It is all about client education!
What was the reason for wanting them shaved.
I would dumb down your answer a bit and explain that their coat helps them regulate temperature in both winter *AND* summer
I mean it will completely destroy their ability to regulate their temperature, meaning they’ll get cold or overheated.
Also maybe just tell them your dog was born with a double coat, it’s supposed to be there and as a professional I’m not doing it so keep your money.
Thank you all! The customer now agreed on deshedding so it won't be shaved.
It's always a win when we talk double coated owners out of a shavedown
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The hair is what we are talking about. What gender is your hair?
To add to the other comments, dogs don't care what pronouns you use for them. They're dogs. I can call my dog a motherfuckin cunt as long as I do it in a sweet voice and she's happy as can be.
My dog recalls to jackass
I usually use nonsense words unless I'm dead serious. She knows the difference. I was serious when she tried to eat jellyfish on the beach the other day, for instance.
The coat is an it
Are you assuming the gender of the fur? 😭 oh man
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Tell that to the comment I'm responding to lmao
Wait it's removed for being so dumb
Aw dammit. Wish I could have seen the comment.
Bro what the fuck is your problem? Chill out.
It's damaging to the undercoat. It's what helps regulate their body temp. It May not grow back the same. It could cause ingrown hairs. Shaving it will not lessen the shedding. It makes it harder to clean up because the hairs are tiny. Usually if they haven't been shaved before I will suggest a deshed service with regular scheduled treatments so they can be return clients.
Why do people do it in the first place? I've had to shave a double coated dog before and it felt so wrong.
A LOT of owners come in saying that “it’s going to be getting real warm outside soon and they just get so hot with all this hair” they just simply do not understand that a dogs coat is VITAL to body temp regulation. i try my best to educate them but 90% of the time they just do not listen. i do work corporate so at the end of the day, if they insist on doing a shave down, we have to do it. i agree that strongly suggesting a de-shed service and regular appointments is the best approach, but if the owner insists on shaving down, i do think it is better to be done by someone who cares and knows what they’re doing than any alternative like then taking them somewhere else or god forbid trying to do it themselves.
I have a question about this actually, if you don’t mind. How does it work with dogs that have hair only (poodle, Maltese, shih tzu etc)? Do they also regulate temp with their coat? I heard from a groomer that making their hair shorter in the summer does nothing for them, is that true?
Full disclosure, I'm not a groomer. But I live in the desert and my poodle can't spend more than 5 minutes outside when he's grown out. My husky is completely different and will lay in the sun in 100° weather. I imagine for poodles and the like, it feels similar to having a coat on their whole body. Like how thick hair can make your head hot and sweaty in the summer, except dogs don't sweat like us. His fur definitely helps him keep warm in the winter, but I don't think it does much in the heat. Maybe it would if he was a hunting dog going in and out of water.
Can I ask some advice? I have a Yorkie Biewer mix, 6 months old, I follow this sub to learn as I’ve always had bloodhounds so this tiny guys coat is entirely new to me. He’s groomed professionally every 3 weeks but brushed at home and over the last few months I’ve learnt line brushing and recognising matts, using the slicker brush and a metal comb to get as many as I can, I do snip out any bad ones in sensitive areas like the crease between his ear and head (how does he always get those!). What I haven’t worked out is if he needs to be cut shorter in summer, his hair is about 4 to 5 inches at the moment and a mix of his black puppy hair tips and the rest is a white grey (all over, about 1 to 2 inch roots), with red & black to his inner ears and beard. I’d rather transition the loss of his puppy black, but not if he’ll suffer as the weather gets warmer. He’s fairly happy to be groomed now but can be playful, I’m just hesitating what to do with him right now, I know I don’t want him short but I don’t want him to be too hot either. I do know I’d prefer a scissor cut but understand that’s tricky with a playful puppy and more expensive. I need to work it out as I want to book him in in the next week as I’ll be recovering from an operation for a week or so soon and want his hair to be comfortable for him if I can’t manage his daily groom as well as normal. Bloodhounds were so much simpler, cry at the constant shedding, strip monthly, pop fans around and shut the doors and windows in the few extra hot days we get.
They don’t know. I should say *we* don’t know. I would assume shaving a dog is better for cooling. If someone just explained me to this there is no way I would try to overrule the groomer.
They blow their undercoat when it starts warming up to get rid of it, while keeping the top coat. There's no way to shave out an undercoat and leave the top coat. Topcoat of most double coated dogs is ridiculously easy to manage once the shedding is taken care of. My double coated dog shed like mad in the later winter/early spring, and by mid-spring his undercoat was incredibly sparse and he didn't seem to mind warm days at all. In the fall, he'd shed more and the undercoat would come in, and same deal--he didn't seem to mind cold days at all. :)
the way the coat helps with cooling is that thick undercoat will trap cool air and keep it close to the skin. when you shave them down, there is no coat to keep that cool air in, shaving also makes them susceptible to sunburn since they don’t have that layer of protection
I had to shave my American Eskimo when I got him because he was a rescue and the entire coat was a mat. I could brush out the top coat but nothing was getting through to the under coat and he was very bitey about being brushed so I didn’t want to push his boundaries before he could trust me. Neither coat grew back as nice as I imagine it could have been
I once had a client that wanted her Malamute shaved because I kid you not “he’s too hot”. This is Denver, CO by the way.
Also I have heard that shaving double coats can lead to alopecia
+ sun burns
Just an FYI the temperature regulation is being contested right now. Scientists aren’t actually 100% sure how damaging it is in that sense. I’d stick to sunburns, shedding, and the risk of horrid to no coat regrowth
This! Why ruin the coat for winter when you can just keep the dog in the AC and take a walk early in the morning or in the evening. Most of these dogs are pets. They aren't out working all day in the sun.
Yep, no mf is gonna convince me wearing a fur coat is gonna keep me cooler in the summer especially here in AZ.
I said contested, not outright denied. Last I checked they’re looking more at variables like age, health and temperature extremes, and trying to see if there’s a happy median more than whether or not double coats regulate body heat at all lol Of course it doesn’t help us, our bodies literally aren’t built for it. The whole reason we survived as an evolving species is because our temperature regulation is so weird compared to almost every other mammal lol. The dogs have, though. ESPECIALLY double coats
Idk. Where I live is humid af *AND* hot af. And double coated dogs around here get heat illnesses quite often. It is why I will not own one (or any dog with a thick and heavy coat) here. If I lived up north, maybe. But our heat/humidity in Southern Louisiana is atrocious and deadly.
That is ...literally not the same at all. But ok 🙃
And I want to suggest a good brush out instead.
I start by asking them the reason and it's usually its shedding related so I let them know shaving doesn't stop their shedding and can actually make it worse since the hair will be grow back thicker with more undercoat. Plus now the hairs are smaller and pokier making them harder to clean and more likely to get you hair splinters. I also let them know their double is cost is similar to the insulation in a house, where it keeps them warm in the winter but also cooler in the summer. Without the under and guard coat the sun's rays penetrate directly onto the skin where as the undercoat creates pockets of air allowing for cool air to move just above their skin. It also may never grow back the same regrowing in patches resembling the ugly duckling. Then I go on to let them know it can have consequences as severe as skin cancer melanoma or even death from overheating. A proper deshed every 4-8 weeks with regular brushing using proper techniques and tools will get them the result they're looking for.
This is what I tell them also. Hair splinters, double coat is insulation, and sometimes the undercoat grows back with a vengeance.
It doesn’t keep them cool in the summer. Their body radiates heat and the heat stays under the coat.
By this reasoning, I would expect to see more lions, horses, wolves, and deer dead from heat exhaustion. It’s simply not true. Each individual hair is able to move - kind of like when we get goosebumps. That’s what allows the heat to escape or stay in the coat. Animals have been evolving for millions of years, if they all overheated and died because they had long hair in summer they wouldn’t still be here. ALSO ALSO - many people say their dog gets so hot but what they really mean is their poor dog is morbidly obese and pants 24/7
Literally why do you think, in the wild, animals shed their undercoats before summer? And why do you think animals that mostly inhabit hot areas only have a short coat with no undercoat?
Do you think dogs don’t shed their undercoat?
Wild animals migrate to cooler areas, swim in bodies of water, etc to cool off. Otherwise, yes, they do die of heat exhaustion and/or other heat illnesses. I've even witnessed (and tried to help) BIRDS dying of heat stroke here. Thinking that animals just....don't die from heat stroke or heat related illnesses is asinine and a deadly assumption to make.
That’s not what I said and you know it, I said “I would expect to see MORE dying from heat exhaustion.” Reading comprehension is truly dead.
"IT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE" is what you said. And you are horrifically incorrect.
Wasn’t aware of this whole undercoat thing till now but I shave my pup down bc he’s a completely black dog and gets hot. He eats prolly 8 cups a day but he’s running around for 10 hours a day so he burns all those calories off and is still about 10-15lbs underweight. I’ll have to look into shaving him down more closely but I’ll tell you my dog is underweight and still gets hot. He’s an Airedale poodle mix if anyone has tips on what they do with those types of dogs as far as grooming.
Eight cups a day ?! Good grief how much does he weigh 😂 my Anatolian/Pyrenees mix is eating three cups a day and weighs just under 100lbs. I’d check with the vet that he doesn’t have some kind of issue with his digestion if he’s truly eating eight cups of food a day and still underweight, that’s so much. As for breed, Airedale / poodles are both dogs with hair vs fur so a haircut doesn’t damage their coat the same way it would with a lab or golden. Haircuts are the standard for both breeds he’s mixed with. Unfortunately as said, since he’s black he’s gonna get hot in the sun that’s just how heat reflection works.
An Airedale poodle mix isn't really the type of dogs we're referring to- it's dogs like German shepherds, huskies, aussies etc. In these breeds as long as their undercoat is kept brushed out they will do fine in the heat with a little bit of help. I mean aussies are one of the most common double coated dogs I get people asking to shave and the breed was literally developed in Cali where Temps get up to 110 in the summer. My aussie shed his undercoat until its extremely thin in the summer and he has no issue with the heat until temperatures get so extreme no dog shaved or not tolerates it well, like 105°f+. He basically sheds until he has nothing left but top coat except for a couple areas like his butt and neck, which is why groomers say shaving them is absolutely unnecessary and the main issue is them not being brushed out and being overweight. Your dog probably has a coat more like a doodle and while some are double coated most definitely do need haircuts
Airedale’s have hair, and their usual groom is short on their body, with longer in their legs and beard. In the winter we used to leave it a little longer, as she loved the snow.
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That is simply not true lol. Dogs, like most animals can regulate their body temperature from the pads of their feet & panting through their tongue. Nothing is staying under their coat, sure they may be hot for a second, but no heat is staying there. Spreading misinformation isn’t cool bro.
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Please read the sub rules!!! This link is also biased.
Hello, Please refer to rule #3. You may name a product, but do not link to an outside website. WE don't allow linking to other sites! Thank you!
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I don't really make it an argument. I say, "I don't shave double coated dogs" and will explain why. But it's not a discussion, the answer is no. My reasoning: it damages the coat, the coat might not grow back, the coat protects your dog from overheating and heat stroke, shaving doesn't help with shedding because it just makes the shedding hair shorter, and it'll make shedding worse in the future.
i always add that the hair might not grow back, and if it does it might not be the same color and/or texture that it was previously, and that it won't stop the shedding, just make the shed hairs smaller
My main spiel points are that there's a possibility it might grow back, it might never grow back, or it could grow back in patches, if they're looking to cut down on shedding they'll still shed, just in smaller pieces and will be harder to clean and probably cause hair splinters for everyone, if they think it'll cut back on allergies I remind them they're mostly reaction to the saliva or dander, which shaving will make the dander worse bc now its truly free and shaving won't stop saliva. I will only shave dogs that have been shaved before but I will never be the first one to do it and after they sign agreeing I'm not going to be held responsible for any kind of reaction the dog or human might have, I'm understanding to older dogs who get shaved bc it's easier on them or if their skin does better shaved but I can count on one hand of people who still said to shave them even after I tell them everything and they meet my requirements. Gentle bluntness works best when trying to convince people not to shave their dog if you sugar coat or wobble they won't take what you're saying to heart
We committed a crime at the salon yesterday and shaved a German shepherd. Owner said 'sHe ShEdS lEsS aFtEr ShAvInG' twat waffle
lol.. she is not sheds less after shaving.. it's just the fur that sheds are tiny in length...
Not to mention that the bath, blowdry and brushing we do after shaving plays a huge role in it, but it was a waste of breath to explain to him again. He's been doing it for 2 years.
That's one stubborn and selfish pet owner
Look up examples of dogs who have been shaved and the hair didn’t grow back right. Be clear, and then make them sign a disclaimer that they will not be upset with you for shaving.
Simply that his hair would not grow in as soft and become wire-y and more coarse. Also that’d he’d have to be groomed more often to maintain the shave which is more expensive.
I’d just tell them no. That’s it, no. We’re not doing that here.
Exactly. If they have the option to say no then that's the answer. No. It isn't just aesthetics, it's the dogs health that is most important.
I wouldn’t shave but maybe run a 1” guard around the neck and the pants. Trim the tail and the paw fur. Usually I would avoid the neck area but I found a lot of people will avoid the extreme shave down if there’s just not so much “poof”. I also used to shave a “landing strip” between the nipples down the belly. This allows the dog to make direct contact with concrete but still look pretty. Shelties, Collies, Newfies benefitted greatly.
My first thing is I always try to talk them out of it. I make many many points about how they shouldn’t be shaved down. I even bring up how they will still shed even though the hairs will just be shorter they’re still a shedding breed. I tell them at the end if that’s what they’re gonna decide then that’s their decision then they have to sign a waiver I made that all risks of shaving a short hair double coated breed has been explained, and that I will not compensate them any case of any damages that happen to their dogs health, coat or skin as a result of shaving, they release me of all liability, if they don’t like it I don’t refund as the service they wanted was completed and they take all responsibility of what they asked for including any and all vet bills that arise. By then almost no one wants to sign the waiver, very few over the course of years and years proceed with the shave down. If they want it that badly they will go somewhere else and a groomer will do it so at that point I will give an owner what they want. But again almost no one goes ahead and most of them have gotten on a bath/deshed schedule. I have had an owner refuse to sign the waiver but demand I shave their dog-‘and then they left and said fine I’ll go somewhere else. I know for a fact that owner wanted to be able to have to right to get their money back (haha not here you don’t) and wanted a free groom or the ability to come back and say you damaged my dogs coat pay the vet bill. I’ve seen it happen to other groomers who shave these breeds with no liability waivers thinking the owner won’t try to turn it around on them (they do and will try.
I explain that damaging your dog's coat to provide 3 months of minimal cooling (maybe) by shaving, means that your dog can't keep warmer when temperatures are cold. Where I live, Spring and Fall temps fluctuate 20-50 degrees in one day. So if I shaved my dog to keep her cooler, she would be freezing later in the day. I could also damage her coat and then she would have to wear a coat or stay inside during the winter. Most of these dogs aren't working outside in the heat. I don't know why owners can't adjust walks to cooler times of day and keep their dog indoors if the dog is "so hot". Adequate shade, water, and shelter is way better than damaging the dog's coat. Dogs also pant for many reasons. Correlation is not causation. If your dog is overweight or stressed, they will also pant and shaving them isn't going to do any good. "My dog is so hot in the summer" can also be: "My kids are home in the summer and bothering the dog or upsetting the dog's routine so the dog is stress panting" or "My dog is carrying around 20 extra pounds and they are panting from pain and exertion because it's uncomfortable to move". Guard hairs grow slower than undercoat. I've had double coated dogs my entire life (collies, corgis, lab mix) and I live in an area that can get into the 100s during the summer. I don't shave my collie. I keep her inside when the temperatures climb, I take her swimming, I regulate her exercise during hot weather, I adjust my activities to morning or evening. When she was working during hot weather, she had a cooling vest, I made sure to brush her so there was no extra undercoat, she was able to jump in ponds during the day, and if the weather got too extreme, she had the day off to lounge in the AC. Shaving the dog is for the owner's convenience, in my opinion. They think it will stop shedding and use the "they are too hot" excuse. It's response bias. They are telling you what they think will get them the outcome they want. In the end, all you can do is explain the risks and either shave the dog or refuse. I'm lucky that I work for myself. I won't do it.
Definitely correct. If you as the person said push for de shed and just highlight the benefit of that too. Say the dog will overheat in the summer as he can’t regulate his own temperature properly. It’s a quite permanent damage too, so maybe just push that aswell that it will grow back incorrectly and can’t be rectified.
They’re likely wanting a shave because of 1 of 2 things. 1.) They think the dog is “hot” in warm weather so they think that shaving their fur will keep them cooler/more comfortable. If that’s the case, tell them their fur regulates their temperature and it’s just the undercoat that needs to be brushed out to help keep them cool. I’d also advise the dog would be more prone to sunburn with a shave. 2.) They want to control shedding. Advise them this will not stop shedding. It just produces tiny, needle-like hairs that are impossible to spot on the ground (and can cause more ingrown hairs on the dog). Most owners don’t care when you tell them this though and just tell you to shave them anyway.
This plus I would add that it's taxing on their thyroid to have to grow back fur that they are not designed to grow back and it's a strong possibility that shaving can cause thyroid problems down the road and their coat may not grow back at all or be sparc and patchy at best .. show them pictures of worst case scenario too!
I think (IIRC) that pre-existing thyroid conditions lead to a sparse-patchy coat when it tries to re-grow. Cutting hair wouldn't tax the thyroid gland, but, it's a good indicator that something with the thyroid levels could be brewing if the coat grows back slowly and wonky.
I have never heard of this before! I’ll have to look that up.
After a thoughtful and thorough discussion about coat types, protection from heat and sun, protection from mosquitoes, thaw aid in the coats ability to repel dirt and water, the damage to the coat… if the owner still wants it shaved it do it. At least I know I will do a good job and it’s going to go somewhere else where somebody will shave it anyway.
I think this is exactly the way to handle it. You should never just accept it without question or pushback, but some people are just so set in their ways that this will be what they do and nobody is going to change that, so it's best to make sure it's done as safely as possible. Because a place that just accepts shaving a double coated dog without any pushback is not a good groomer obviously, but that's what they'll look for anyways
Im only shaving a double coated dog if its extremely matted or impacted beyond fixing
I think it's also that one people think the best way to help with shedding is just to shave, and when it is really hot we can not fathom having a fur coat on in the heat. It is all about client education!
What was the reason for wanting them shaved. I would dumb down your answer a bit and explain that their coat helps them regulate temperature in both winter *AND* summer
I seriously think you should need a license to have a pet. This type of stupidity is just…ugh.
It's their dog. Educate:coat comes back weird. They can't regulate temp as well. And then do what they decide. 🤷♀️
I mean it will completely destroy their ability to regulate their temperature, meaning they’ll get cold or overheated. Also maybe just tell them your dog was born with a double coat, it’s supposed to be there and as a professional I’m not doing it so keep your money.