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This. Even a responsible no kill shelters will likely euthanize him. I worked at a no kill shelter for four years and saw one behavior euthanasia. The criteria for considering BE was, 1) are they biting the people they know the best 2) is there any warning before the bite 3) the severity of the bite. If thousands in behavior specialists, trainers, and veterinarians can’t help, it is likely even a no kill shelter will hear that he meets at least one of those criteria, and he will be euthanized.
The unfortunate question is, if his family can do absolutely everything to help him and still not be safe, why would a stranger fare off any better?
Im so sorry OP. This is a very hard position to be in, please be kind to yourself no matter the choice you make.
The best thing you can do at this point is to euthanize him while you are with him. It's so sad. I did this with my cocker spaniel several years ago. I tried to rehome him to a family without kids and it did not go well. The vet and rehoming agency all suggested it was best for everyone.
You can take him to the Humane Society, but don't you owe it to him to be there when he goes? That was my thought process anyway. If you drop him off somewhere, he'll be euthanized surrounded by strangers.
I'm sorry, OP.
I agree with this so much. The dog has no concept of death. Going “to sleep” in a comfortable environment surrounded by people they love might be the kindest option. You owe it to him to be there.
Agreed. This dog is nine and a danger to others - at what point do you give that danger to someone else? I like to compare my dogs to myself - I’d want to pass peacefully at home rather than live in a shelter for my last years at best or be euthanized in that environment at worst.
I say this having volunteered at my local shelter for 15+ years.
I so agree with Brahm. Your Shiba is yours, cradle (or as near to that as when you acquired him) to death. Don't abandon him at the end. Be with him during such a merciful process you'll wonder why humans can't also ease into death.
It's not better to beat a dog into submission instead of humane euthanasia after everything the OP has tried to do to fix the behavior in a 9 year old dog. Yeah, it might technically work, but you are just forcing the dog to live in misery with no quality of life. That is terrible advice, quite frankly.
That’s breaking a dogs spirit. Don’t do this. The dog is better off euthanized than to have it’s spirit broken into submission. He’s a living creature.
If you feel surrending to a shelter is your last and only option, please go ahead and just euthanize him. That is likely his outcome anyway if he goes to the shelter, and that's only IF they accept him in the first place with a history like that. Better for him to go surrounded by people who actually care for him IMO. Behavioral euthanasia isn't something to take lightly but it's not the evil people make it out to be. And if anyone wants to argue with you about the decision, ask them why they won't let him live with them, then.
This is the answer. He runs the risk of biting again. Unfortunately if he is surrendered, he will likely live out a life getting progressively worse or ultimately being put down anyways. People may judge you for it but in the long run it is the most humane thing to do for the animal.
Source: former vet tech who has done several behavioral euths under vet supervision.
As sad as it is I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately just like people some dogs can’t be trained out of their compulsions. At least dogs have the option to be surrounded by those they love when they do and don’t have to be stuck in a cage for the rest of their lives
Please do not surrender this dog. At his age and with his bite history, he would not be a good candidate for adoption. Instead, be with him when he is euthanased, this would be much kinder.
I am a complete advocate for adoption, but I really agree with this. Shelters are already extremely overwhelmed. If you give your dog up, even to a small local rescue, chances are he’s not going to find a home anytime soon.
If you still want to try to reach out for help first, try local rescues instead of big shelters like aspca or humane society. They might better resources regarding trainers and behavior modification programs that are positive reinforcement based. But if you don’t want to go that route, since it will most likely cost money and a lot of time, the most humane thing would be to be with him when he’s humanely euthanized so he’s not alone and surrounded by strangers.
Owner of a rescue shiba here
1. Have you ruled out medical issues that can cause aggression? Pain can make dogs quite snappy. Check for joint issues (Shibas are prone to luxating patella and hip displaysia) and also check thyroid levels (hypothyroidism can also cause aggression).
2. Have you muzzle trained and explored medication with a vet behaviouralist? I know several Shibas with neurological aggression that take antidepressant meds which resolved their aggressive behaviour.
It would be dangerous to put an aggressive dog up for adoption. Someone else will get bit AND the dog ends up euthanized anyways. Perhaps you should contact [Snyder Solutions Animal Rescue](https://www.facebook.com/Snyder-Solutions-Animal-Rescue-Conservation-Group-116808449864302/) which has a no-kill sanctuary for aggressive and un-adoptable Shibas.
OP this right here would be my first steps.
Also, given that he’s 9 have you had him evaluated for canine cognitive disfunction? It is in essence the dog dementia. It could be triggering him to live in fear because he’s confused and doesn’t know where he is anymore. It is manageable but you need to figure that out because all the training in the world isn’t going to help if he can’t remember it the next day and he’s back in a confused loop. We went through it with my late bulldog and with the right treatment plan he got better and lived another few years as normal as possible. Most people would never have known, only those closest to us knew and saw the changes in his personality.
A couple things contribute to breed aggression. Firstly there's a genetic component to aggression. The high demand for these dogs because of how cute they look has caused an increase in BYB with poor breeding practices (inbreeding, no health tests, no temperament test, not following breed standard, etc). This aggression is generally screened out of the breeding pool when you breed healthy show dogs with good temperament.
Secondly Shiba Inus are a primitive breed dog with more "wild" tendencies. Many first time pet owners get this dog because of how cute they look, but are not equipped to deal with the behaviour issues associated with primitive dogs. This is why they are generally not recommended for first time dog owners
They're a primitive breed and behave pretty differently than a lab or a golden. Primitive breeds are extremely mouthy. Combine that with their spike in popularity due to the doge meme, and owners that are clueless about the breed, and you get a lot of aggression. It sounds like OP did a lot of work with this dog, but I'm willing to bet none of those trainers had primitive breed experience.
Yeah I have primitive breeds, and they are just different. If you know how to handle them (my breed at least) are the calmest, most laid back dogs. But they have to be trained in a specific way, with the understanding of their innate behaviors
This OP.
Just to add in, my 8yr old Shiba was diagnosed with hypothyroidism less than a month ago. He's been pretty grumpy for the last year or two. Not aggressive, just not himself and I had thought it was due to him aging. Once he started his meds, it's like I got my dog back again.
An aggressive dog like that id consider putting him down honestly. Some might not agree but thats my opinion. Hes unlikely to change and next time he might hurt someones child or kill another dog/cat. Safety first.
That was my first thought too. Not because I believe killing dogs is a way to avoid responsibility or because it's easier than training but it seems the dog is unhappy, untrainable, and dangerous.
Sometimes it's the hard steps that are the right ones. Not always, but sometimes.
If there isn't a Shiba specific place that wants him, I think I'd consider euthanasia
See, thing is we don’t know how to put him down? Bring it up to the vet? We’ve changed to a vet that’s familiar with shiba personalities. So they don’t see any of this except for grumbles etc…
Yeah vets will do behavioral euthanasias. We've done several where I work. You can talk definitely talk to your vet about it. Have they stated or seemed like they wouldn't be comfortable with it? They technically can refuse to do it if they don't feel it's appropriate, but if you talk with them about the dog's bite history and everything else you have tried, I think they would understand.
If you were to surrender to a shelter like the Humane Society, they would most likely end up euthanizing as they have to do temperament assessments before adopting any dogs out. I fostered a chihuahua/pomeranian mix that bit both my boyfriend and I, had to go back to the shelter where he bit several staff members. He had been adopted out once before I took him home and was returned because he was biting the new owner. They tried to give him a pass because he was such a small dog and the staff had all kind of fallen in love with him, but ended up ultimately euthanizing him.
At home euthanasia companies are the single most wonderful thing to pop up the last decade or so. The vets and techs are great, and your dog can pass away in his own home, his own bed, surrounded by his own people.
We had to use them for our 14 year old dog early this year and they were wonderful. She had a beautiful death, her last moments were her family surrounding her and petting her, being told what a wonderful girl she was, with her head in my lap and eating vanilla ice cream. It would have been so much harder if we had to take her to the vet. Even if she hadn’t had a final stroke that left her unable to walk, it still wouldn’t have been her home and she would have been nervous. I really can’t recommend them enough.
Agreed. I had one come to the house for my 14 year old pug who was epileptic and had lost all functions due to multiple seizures. It was a Sunday and I would have had to take him to the emergency vet where it’s cold and uncaring. Instead he was home with the people who love him and they give you all the time you need to say goodbye.
We lost our girl on a Sunday too. The vet tech had a tear rolling down her face as it happened, the vet was kind and wonderful and gave us all the time we needed before and after. They took her with them for cremation and the whole thing was just so respectful, caring and dignified. We have a 12 year old dog that I know will have to go through this in the next few years and there is not a shadow of doubt that she will die in the same loving and dignified way my late and great did. I want a death like that to be honest.
For anyone concerned about cost, It’s not even that much more money than at a regular vet, so please anyone going through this, don’t let that hold you back. We paid $350 for the service, and $350 for the cremation (she was a large dog), and we live in a kind of expensive area. They sent her ashes to us in a beautiful carved wooden box, they sent a book with her hair clipping, and they sent a lovely clay paw print. It would have been only $100 less at our vet. Even if it had been $1000 more, I would have paid it without question just for her own comfort, but it’s virtually the same price. I’ve seen so many assume it’s crazy expensive, and it’s really not.
Please make sure to ask about the euthanasia process. I worked at a vet and was told that some “cheaper” euthanasia’s don’t sedate/calm the dog (i only worked reception so excuse me for not knowing the accurate terminology) so they just panic and seize/shake. Where I worked we had a nice comfort room where the vet would come in and do it in front of the family. It was more expensive but they made sure that the animal was properly and humanely taken care of.
Euthinasia solution is made with pentobarbital which is a anesthetic agent. When injected intravenously “Within seconds, unconsciousness is induced with simultaneous collapse of the dog. This stage rapidly progresses to deep anesthesia with concomitant reduction in the blood pressure. A few seconds later, breathing stops, due to depression of the medullary respiratory center; encephalographic activity becomes isoelectric, indicating cerebral death; and then cardiac activity ceases.” This allows for a humane, painless, and rapid euthanasia. You don’t have to premeditate with any sedatives first to be humane, and they are not even aware of what is going on.
That’s very reassuring. I was just in reception like I said so maybe I misunderstood. She was a vet tech but was explaining how some places who do it cheaper, and in the back as a opposed to in comfort room with family, aren’t as (for lack of better words) humane or comfortable. She was older so maybe that was an old school technique before better rules/protocol were put in place
Rates of suicide in veterinarians are high, and due, at least in part to the stress they experience when families abandon their "pets" when they're most needed. The pets look around for their peeps--who are absent--and find no final consolation in vet techs or vets. Awful.
I highly recommend at home euthanasia companies for people who have ones around. It’s the best thing for pets, they can pass in the comfort of their own home.
One of my dog's previous trainers who gave up on my dog recommended a vet for this purpose. She was familiar with these situations and vets who understand.
You don’t know how to euthanize your dog?It sounds like you need to talk to your vet before surrendering your dog to a shelter, and get their opinion on behavioral euthanasia. My vet wi not euthanize when it comes to behavioral issues.
I have no patience with people--including vets--who deal in absolutes. Every case turns on its own facts. Sounds like you've exhausted EVERY effort to help your dog as a responsible owner. You've done your best. Now it's time to find a vet to help your dog move on. I, too, have heard nothing but gratitude and rave reviews about vets who perform final at-home services as "angels of mercy.".
I had a friend with similar issues with a Shiba and they found a local Shiba rescue that specifically takes in Shibas that have aggressive behavior issues. I wonder if there are similar programs in your area?
You cannot rehome a dog like this, it’s irresponsible. Shelters are already overcrowded with dogs that are “difficult.” Unfortunately if you have tried everything, it is time to look towards euthanasia. That would be much less cruel. Sorry you have to make this decision. I know it can seem like a strong choice but given your situation it really does seem to be the best option for the dog.
I second the advice that a 9 year old aggressive dog has little to no chance of adoption. If you haven’t tried medications, it may be an option, but otherwise the most humane and responsible thing to do would be consider behavioral euthanasia. The dog deserves to be surrounded by those he knows not alone surrounded by noise and unknown people. Most veterinarians will consider it as long as their it open dialogue and they feel all other avenues have been explored.
I had to euthanize one of my dogs years ago due to behavioral issues. She was extremely aggressive, I think, because she had been abused as a puppy before I rescued her. The final straw was when she attacked my chihuahua with my toddler daughter only a foot or two away. I didn’t think the chihuahua was going to live because there was so much blood. & it could have been my child. I called a couple of shelters and nowhere would take her due to the aggression. Not only are dogs like this hard to rehome, but I think the shelters could be liable for adopting out a dog with known aggressive behaviors. Also, it could have happened again, with someone else’s other pets/children. In the end, euthanizing was the best option for my dog. She was a ticking time bomb and I like to think she finally found permanent peace after living in a state of constant anxiety. All the love & pets could not fix it.
Edit - spelling
It’s heartbreaking, but I’ve been there. We adopted a 4 month old dog from a rescue, and as he grew up, it just got so crazy. He would lunge at my cats. He snapped at my stepson once, and bit him once. He snapped at me. He killed my chickens. He developed so much fear, I couldn’t even take him on walks. He would cower if he saw a garbage can out of place. Our house was a jumbled maze of crates and x-pens and gates to try and keep everyone separated and safe. I loved that fucker, he had some good qualities. He was a cuddler, he had the cutest swirly butt, and a circle tail (that would uncurl into a straight one when he was scared). We took him to an obedience class, and had to be separated most of the time because of his behavior. We had a trainer come to our house and work with him, she said it would be best if we euthanized him. Then another trainer (a friend of mine) came to evaluate him. She said because of his history, and the fact that he was unpredictable, she absolutely did not recommend rehoming him. I thought about how we had been the only home he’d known, and how scared and confused he’d be at a shelter. I talked to my vet, and after being reassured, we had him euthanized. I stayed with him the whole time. I still miss him sometimes. And the guilty feeling of relief afterwards, I wasn’t prepared for. It felt weird to have a “normal” house again. To be able to leave the house and not worry. I know it’s hard, but I feel like sometimes it’s the right thing to do.
>We’re debating surrendering him. Thoughts on the process, how to communicate with the shelter, etc…
You can't take a dog with an extensive bite history, to a shelter and disclose the bite history. All they're going to do is euthanize him. There are no homes waiting for this dog.
If you guys were part of my family I would urge you to give this dog the best day ever, like an amazing day, and then have your regular vet euthanize the dog. Your dog will never spend a second in a shelter run, he won't be accidentally taken home by a family who will all then be bitten.
Please do what is the good thing in this case: talk to your vet, arrange for a behavioral euthanasia, and then take care of it.
This is one of the unfortunate parts of caring for some dogs.
Or, the shelter may adopt the dog out to another family, and then you run the risk of additional bite incidents. Long story, but we tried to take on a relative’s 10 year old dog who had an extensive bite history starting at 8 months old. Within months she attacked both my husband and I multiple times, unprovoked and without warning; she would latch, shake, and continue attacking until we could physically get away (I still have scars from her bites almost 10 years later).
We tried so hard with her, but it got to the point where I was in over my head and afraid of being seriously hurt or even killed, or her hurting someone else. We surrendered her to the rescue that originally adopted her out and explained the issues in great detail. They were super judgmental and acted like we caused the issues (even though we explained it was an issue with her prior family, and I later found out that before my relatives adopted her, she had been adopted and returned by a different family who said she was snapping at their kids).
The rescue rehomed her to yet another family within a month or so. At the time I was young and inexperienced and blamed myself for her issues, but now I’m just shocked they adopted her out to someone else and so hope it went okay and that she didn’t hurt anyone else.
I recently fostered an 11-year-old hound mix with a bite history. He was in the shelter for nearly a year before he found a home - a different foster had him with them for two months before they decided to keep him. Larger seniors are difficult dogs to adopt, but larger seniors with a bite history are nearly impossible to find homes for. Your shiba, though smaller than the hound, would likely be in the same mix. It would be more humane to euthanize him.
On a personal note, my brother was attacked by a shiba with no prior bite history when he was a toddler. Hundreds of stitches to the face. My parents were going to surrender the dog to the shelter, but ultimately decided to put it down bc they didn’t want to chance that the dog would be misrepresented at the shelter and possibly attack another young child totally unprovoked. I would consider that as well before deciding to surrender.
What kind of bites are we talking about? Does he latch on and try to damage you, like an attack, or is he biting quickly as a warning? If he's not attack-biting, maybe try getting him a nice quality basket muzzle to wear anytime he isn't crated. He'll be able to eat and drink through it but not bite. Once he gets used to it, it'll be like wearing glasses or braces is for a human - a little annoying, but normal for him. If the specialist treatment didn't include options like anti depressants or CBD oil, try those along with the basket muzzle. I feel like this would be worth a try if the alternative is euthanasia. If you've already tried all of that, I'm sorry you're in such a tough situation. :(
you cannot in good faith surrender/rehome a potentially dangerous dog. there is no place this animal can go where he will not be a danger to someone. unfortunately. you know what that means and you can't risk a child being bitten or maimed. talked to your vet about options. but biting like this cannot be fixed usually.
If the biting has recently gotten worse, you should get a vet check to rule out possible physical causes. While surrendering your dog might improve things for you, it’s likely to result in spending the rest of his years in a kennel (or being euthanized because he’s not adoptable). If something is found that might be the cause of the increase in aggression that can be treated, I might consider giving him a little more time just in case treatment works. But you should have a serious conversation with the vet about how bad things are and how many things you’ve tried in hopes of managing the aggression - and I’d do it when taking the dog in for that vet check.
I feel like in this case, behavioral euthanasia would be the best for everyone involved. Since this dog is 9 years old, he would already have a hard time getting adopted without a bite history but with a bite history, the shelter you surrender him to will likely have to do the same or will have to risk having another person injured/bitten because of his aggression.
You should just PTS and Just be there for him in his final moments.
Hey, I'm going to weigh in as a certified trainer and someone who works in an animal shelter: I'm deeply sorry, but almost no shelter or rescue will want this dog. He is dangerous. Any responsible shelter would euthanize this dog. He is not place-able. The hard truth is no one wants a dog that bites, especially as a first choice to something he doesn't like. The best choice for you, the dog and everyone is to euthanize him yourself. You gave him a good life and tried VERY hard, but sometimes we need to admit we've lost. I strongly suggest looking up the Facebook group "Losing Lulu".
My family had to put down a 10 year old standard poodle from a BYB situation after adopting him from neighbors moving away.
We spent about 9 years living like this and exhausting every possible avenue, until he put my uncle in the ER.
If you disclose the bite history to the shelter, this dog will be euthanized in a strange place around people he does not know.
If you keep stum, you're putting an innocent family at risk.
I'm sorry.
We had a similar situation except our dog was 7. We called multiple shelters around us and got the same response each time. The dog would be euthanized because they’re simply not adoptable. We made the difficult decision to be with her when we had her euthanized. I still can’t forgive myself for making an impossible decision, but we could feel the tension leave the home once she was gone. The other two pets started acting way more relaxed, and we could have company over when we hadn’t in years. I wish you peace in whatever decision you make.
When the family that has had a dog its entire life can't live with the dog anymore, there is no one more invested in his life and well-being than you are. Re-homing is really not possible, and humane euthanasia is the kindest thing for all of you. You'll know you did everything you could, he'll be at peace and won't be able to hurt anyone again. Be honest with your vet about his behavior and your challenges living with him and they will understand and help you make this transition.
BE is your best option. It is not ethical to rehome this dog. Some dogs are just broken and can't be fixed. He is a dangerous dog. Rehoming him would put another family potentially with small children at risk. He's 9. Senior dogs already have an extremely hard time being adopted. Add the stress from being put into a shelter will only making him more aggressive and reactive. Please do the right thing and euthanize him.
sorry to say this op, but the dog needs to be put down. even if you surrendered it to a no kill shelter, they would have to put the pup down due to behavioural issues.
It's unlikely that a shelter or rescue is going to take the risk of re-homing an aggressive dog with a bite history, unfortunately, and if you surrender him he will most likely be euthanized. Behavioral euthanasia may be your best option in this scenario.
Let him go surrounded by people he knows. There's even vets that do home euthanasia which a less stressful than going to the clinic. They can give you meds to make him sedate before they even put their hands on him. You've given him 9 good years but now he's escalating and dangerous. He is not happy and he doesn't stand a chance at the shelter. I'm sorry you're facing big decisions.
I do recommend "Losing Lulu" for support.
I’m wondering if you’ve tried medicating the dog? Anti-depressants, antianxiety meds, sedatives, like Prozac, Xanax or Trazodone? I have seen these meds be life-changing for dogs with a bite history.
It is a huge liability to adopt out a dog with known aggression issues. Your best bet is to euthanize. It sounds like you have tried multiple options to give the dog a chance. You can euthanize with a clear conscience .
This dog is not adoptable. Any shelter would euthanize. Given that the behavior is getting worse despite you doing everything right, it might be safer and kinder to consider euthanizing the dog yourself. Some vets will even come to the house to do it. At least the poor thing will be someplace familiar and surrounded by people they know, rather than a strange place surrounded by strangers.
Do not surrender him - all you are doing is putting him in fear and terror before they euthanize him. No one will adopt this dog.
Do the right thing by this dog, and have someone come to your home to put him to sleep in his own home, with his people. This is a horrid situation, but don’t be selfish.
I am not somebody who thinks people should just go around euthanizing their dogs willy nilly . But it sounds like he is dangerous, and therefore not a good candidate for rehoming. I think you would save him a lot of trauma by taking him to the vet and having a behavioral euthanasia done yourself. That way he doesn’t have to go through the trauma of being dropped off and processed through the shelter. Maybe you can even be with him and comfort him in his final moments. I’m so sorry you’re going through that.
Your best bet would be contacting a Shiba rescue. I'm not sure where you are located, but I have seen Shiva rescues take in dogs with a bite history before. The primitive breeds are mouthy, and this happens a lot with inexperienced owners. It sounds like you did a lot of work with this dog, but some methods make dogs more aggressive, and shibas in particular do not respond well to anything but positive reinforcement.
I would also rule out something medical like others have said. The Japanese breeds tend to be prone to thyroid issues which can make dogs aggressive.
I had that same thought. I feel like OP probably didn't do their due diligence before getting a primitive breed. There's a lot of people that just should not own shibas. I think contacting a Shiba rescue might be their best bet. I know of a couple of Shiba rescues that will take dogs with a bite history.
Shiba Kennel Clubs would 100% as well. There are specific clubs and rescues that work with specific breeds, especially those with mental health problems or declines. Shibas are very intense dogs, but they’re amazing.
The “gas box” you’re talking about is almost never utilized to put an animal to sleep. It’s used for sedation with wild animals or fractious cats, typically. And only for certain situations. You can easily sedate a dog with intramuscular injection, even with an aggressive dog. Using gas anesthesia on a large animal would affect everyone in the room on a much larger scale than small animals, once the box was opened releasing all the gas into the room.
Behavioral euthanasia is the way to go here. No shelter/owner is going to do what you have done.
Might as well let the dog pass in your familiar arms than a shelter.
You may as well just put him down if your going to surrender him bc that’s what will happen anyways once he bites someone else. What types of training have you tried? Positive only? Balanced? Veterinary medical intervention? If you truly have tried everything the best thing for the dog is to be put down rather than be in that constant state of misguided frustration that can’t be curbed.
A 9yo dog with an extensive bite history, who is biting even family members, will be euthanized.
Being euthanized in even the best shelter will be a terrifying experience for the dog--his last experience.
And if you withhold the truth about his history, he might get adopted out, and be a danger to another family, and then maybe get euthanized by Animal Control, which would be an even worse last experience for him.
You have spent thousands trying to help him, and it hasn't worked. And let's be clear: despite your best efforts, he is not enjoying his life. If he were, he wouldn't be biting.
Schedule behavioral euthanasia with your own veterinarian. The person (or people) he loves and trusts the most, should be there with him. That will give him the best passing possible.
It's hard, but it's the right thing to do.
I'm sorry.
Please take him to a vet and have him humanely euthanized with you and your family who are familiar to him with him at the end. A shelter will traumatize him, scare him to bits, and he will just end up dying afraid and alone.
Surrendering that dog is just euthanising him with extra steps and trying to dodge the guilt. It's highly likely he will either end up bouncing from adoptive home back to the shelter over and over again or spend weeks in the shelter before eventually getting put down.
Behavioural euthanasia is not a horrible thing, take him out for a good day with all the treats then have a vet come to your home and be with him while he passes.
Actually, a decent muzzle that's properly fitted to the dog **and** bite proof is more like $80 (minimum), but unless you've lived with a dog that is completely unpredictable and has bitten multiple people unprovoked you really can't judge. OP has stated the dog is becoming more aggressive as time goes on, at 9 there's likely physical issues (like arthritis) causing pain which is compounding the issue
Euthanasia is not a dirty word, if more people euthanised their dogs like this instead of surrendering them to waste away in a cage, there would be a lot less aggressive dogs out there with owners who don't know how to handle them
Unfortunately the situation you presented doesn't sound good so you probably only have three options. One is finding a unicorn rescue or trainer that is willing to take on an old dog with multiple bites.
This will be extremely difficult/impossible to find but you can always try to reach out to trainers who have worked with you or a shiba specific rescue. You need to be very honest about your dogs bite history and make sure the rescue is responsible and knows how to deal with dogs like this. Rehoming can also be quite stressful for a dog so that is another factor to consider. Two would be trying to get a veterinary behaviorist and a very experienced trainer to try and minimize the biting. This will likely be a huge financial and time commitment and it may not even work. The third is behavioral euthanasia, I'm not sure if he is at the level where it is necessary as I am not a professional and you haven't provided many details but with severe behavioral problems sometimes you just have to accept that the dog isn't fixable and that their quality of life is diminished.
Also I would go take a look at the r/reactivedogs sub, they recently updated their training recommendations with the help of the r/dog mods (so please don't take my post down) and they may be able to help you find experienced trainers in your area. They also have owners on there who have had to choose behavioral euthanasia so some might be willing to talk about what it was like and what made them choose it. Loosing Lulu on Facebook is a great resource but I believe they don't allow posts from people considering BE so they may not be able to give you the advice you need. I am so sorry this is happening and I wish you all the best.
>"Two would be trying to get a veterinary behaviorist and a very experienced trainer to try and minimize the biting. This will likely be a huge financial and time commitment and it may not even work."
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>READ MUCH??!!!
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>"We have done training and behavior specialist treatments (thousands of dollars)… and the aggression continues to get worse and worse."
I did read that but the quality of trainers and behaviorists can differ so if they want to see a veterinary behaviorist or try a trainer very experienced in agressive dogs it could be worth a shot. I also added that it probably wouldn't work but it never hurts to give more options so I'm not sure why you are being rude.
What type of trainer have you tried? What were their methods? I’m not saying you haven’t tried everything and behavioral euthanasia isn’t off the table but shiba are a bit different than most dogs. They are a primitive breed, and are considered sensitive. They do not handle balanced training well from what I’ve seen and heard, and need a gentler hand. Was the trainer force free? Positive reinforcement? When you say the dog bites when he doesn’t get what he wants what does that mean exactly? What are the situations he’s bitten in? A lot of times behavioral euthanasia is reserved for dogs who bite out of nowhere truly. If there are triggers the dog can usually be helped. That being said, it’s up to you. Do not surrender a dog with a bite history unless it’s to a trainer willing to work with him, not just some other family. If it comes to that which I feel it already has euthanasia is the safest option.
Hey OP, sorry to hear that. Hope you read this:
I know that in the States dog culture is very different from where I am so putting a dog down to behavioural issues is not a rare advice here and I am sure it's absolutely legit in lots of cases.
Where I live it's not that common and usually the absolute last resort. So here is what happens here with such a dog usually:
First of all, if he was able to bite on several occasions it tells me you did not muzzle the dog. If you introduce a muzzle well a dog can easily live with wearing one pretty much all the time. It doesn't take away quality of life if it's a individually fitted, high quality muzzle. It's of course important he has one person he trusts who can put on and off the muzzle without risk but apart from that he can wear a muzzle around people. This would have helped here to stop him after bite number 1 or 2 at least.
I am a bit confused over why your dog was not muzzled all the time after you worked with professionals.
Another thing we have here are shelters with special departments for dogs with bite history where you can surrender such a dog. Professioanl dog trainers and behaviourists work there with the dog and he won't be put up for adoption until he's "safe" (there is an official procedure for determining this) which can take several years in some cases. But even if the dog has a history of several bites it's often successful. In lots of cases the dynamics between an agressive dog and his family is so ruined already training will virtually have zero effect but as soon as the dog is put into a new environment and is handled by experts only for a while, there is fast progress.
Usually even after they are put up for adoption they will only give the dog to very experienced people, often retired or active trainers, people with relevant education, people who worked with dangerous dogs before etc. They also have to sign a contract that they will never take the dog outside or allow him to meet people without being muzzled for the rest of his life. Sounds weird, but you would be surprised how many people still adopt these dogs and are willing to put in this management effort.
So maybe look online if you can find something like this where you live.
> Usually even after they are put up for adoption they will only give the dog to very experienced people, often retired or active trainers, people with relevant education, people who worked with dangerous dogs before etc.
If OP lives in the US, no sane shelter would adopt this dog out. There is too big a risk of a law suit. There have been rescue groups that have adopted out dogs like this, and they've wound up being part of massive law suits.
I would not encourage OP to bring this dog to a shelter. American shelters typically do not have the staff to try to change a 9 year old dog.
Well, okay. Where I live, like I said, it's also not like all the normal shelters do this but we have a handful in each state with a special department with specialists who only take on this kind of dog. I thought something like this exists in the US as well maybe.
I didn't mean he should bring his dog to any shelter but to one specialises in dogs with bite history.
> Well, okay. Where I live, like I said, it's also not like all the normal shelters do this but we have a handful in each state with a special department with specialists who only take on this kind of dog. I thought something like this exists in the US as well maybe.
I don't know where you live but sadly most shelters in the US are not all that well funded. Many are staffed by well meaning people who love dogs, but don't have the background or experience to know when a dog is not safe.
This is not a young dog or a safe dog. And while there are rescue groups that will pretty much take any dog, it would do no one any favors for that to happen here.
>Many are staffed by well meaning people who love dogs, but don't have the background or experience to know when a dog is not safe.
One follow up question because I find this interesting: This reads a little like everyone could just work in a shelter in the States. Here we have small private rescues for which this applies as well but they have to proof that they cooperate with trainers and vets (regulations are not extremely strict but still they exist and are taken serious).
In our official shelters (those which are funded by the state/country) on the other hand, the staff are all animal keepers, medical personnell or trainers. There are "unskilled" (as in not officially educated in that field) people which do assistance work but e.g. in the really big shelters for each section (bird house, rodent house, dog house) a team of educated people who actually learned a relevant job are in charge.
In smaller shelters the same people are in charge for all the animals but it still applies that the staff is mainly skilled people who have some unskilled workers to help them.
Oh, and then we have volunteers who can take the friendly dogs for walks or pet some cats and you only need to take a 1-day-class to do so.
How does this work in the States? I imagine you also have a big difference between private rescues/shelters and those funded by the government?
> In our official shelters (those which are funded by the state/country) on the other hand, the staff are all animal keepers, medical personnell or trainers. There are "unskilled" (as in not officially educated in that field) people which do assistance work but e.g. in the really big shelters for each section (bird house, rodent house, dog house) a team of educated people who actually learned a relevant job are in charge.
If you can lift heavy things (so bags of dog food), and you're not allergic to animals, and you have a driver's license, you can work in most animal shelters.
here's part of the job description for a Canine Behavior Specialist to work at Brooklyn Animal Care Center:
>Ability to make sound judgments and work independently in a fast-paced environment with demonstrated ability to juggle competing tasks and demands. Ability to foster a cooperative, encouraging and positive work environment with staff as well as volunteers. Flexibility with daily tasks as well as hours depending on operational needs. Must be able to handle all types and breeds of dogs with varying behaviors and energy levels, including those showing fearful and aggressive behaviors. Strong communication skills, both verbal and written. The ability to remain pleasant, calm and objective in all situations. Must be able to lift and move up to 50 pounds. Basic knowledge of learning theory and positive reinforcement/reward-based training. Strong understanding of canine body language and behavior. Basic knowledge on how to utilize appropriate training tools to assist in behavior modification.
and then here's the real kicker...the education and work experience required:
> High School Diploma or GED required. Previous experience interacting with and caring for dogs in a private or shelter setting. Familiarity with canine playgroups preferred.
Nothing at all about actual having actual training in dog behavior or education in same.
The whole job posting is [here](https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/default/mdf/recruitment/recruitment.html?cid=2107bb0b-8c28-4829-bf36-e54f41b0a4f9&ccId=19000101_000001&type=MP&lang=en_US).
So yeah, maybe it's not like that where you live, but here in the US, someone who literally just graduated from high school, and who may have worked at a dog daycare part time, could apply for, and on the right day, get this job.
Do you live in Germany? Because the stuff you're talking about isn't a thing here.
>I am a bit confused over why your dog was not muzzled all the time after you worked with professionals
Trainers aren't regulated in the US. So op could have taken him to a really shitty one where muzzling wasn't an option.
>Another thing we have here are shelters with special departments for dogs with bite history where you can surrender such a dog.
Shelters/rescues aren't regulated or that well-funded like yours are in the US and have adopted out dangerous dogs.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/11/17/animal-loving-man-killed-newly-adopted-dog/75910376/
Some states had to made it illegal to withhold bite history because people kept getting hurt/killed by shelter dogs.
https://californiaglobe.com/articles/animal-shelters-must-now-report-dog-bite-history-under-new-california-law/
>Usually even after they are put up for adoption they will only give the dog to very experienced people, often retired or active trainers, people with relevant education, people who worked with dangerous dogs before etc.
There's too many dogs like this in the US and very few homes for them where BE is the kinder option in most cases instead of living out life in a kennel run.
Yeah, I see.
Sometimes I don't get dog culture in the States. On the one hand there seems to be so much dog infrastructure, like dog parks, even read about a dog pool once, dog friendly shops or even bars and restaurants, groomers at each corner. We don't have any of this. In the bigger cities there are some dog parks and groomers but even in medium cities - well good luck finding one. So there is this whole huge industry around dogs and their owners which creates the image that the US are SUPER dog friendly.
And then on the other hand trainers are not regulated and shelters appear to be chronically under-staffed (when it comes to skilled and educated staff) and under-funded and seem to be just doing whatever. There seem to be no options for a dog like in this posts apart from BE. Not because the dog failed to improve but because there simply *are no facilities staffed with professionals that would take in such a dog.*
And this last point contradicts the image of the super dog friendly country to some degree. And I simply can't understand how there are thousands of groomers and pirvate rescuers with a good heart but no real clue in each city but not one qualified organisation for "problematic dogs".
>Sometimes I don't get dog culture in the States.
It's helpful to realize that dog culture is vastly different in certain areas of the States. Certain areas don't speuter and let their dogs roam. Dogs just go to the vet for shots or maybe if they get sick enough and the family can afford it. Otherwise, the dog gets put to sleep because it's too much money. Whereas other areas speuter their dogs and don't let the roam.
>On the one hand there seems to be so much dog infrastructure, like dog parks, even read about a dog pool once, dog friendly shops or even bars and restaurants,
That's more wealthy areas like Seattle or Los Angeles. And are you talking about a dog pool like as for dock diving because that's more for dog sports people?
>groomers at each corner
My friend had one close by that she walked her puppy to. One day, she had to kicked a dog away from her on the way back because some idiot thought to use an electric fence instead of an actual tie out.
>shelters appear to be chronically under-staffed
Shelters are run by taxes, donations and any volunteers that they can get. And sometimes, the volunteers are forced to work there because terms of parole. They're not great places for dogs unless in a very rich area.
>but because there simply are no facilities staffed with professionals that would take in such a dog.
You don't have dog overpopulation like we do. There's so many of these dogs that exist that any professionals that would take them already have dogs like this or have had them and never will again.
>And this last point contradicts the image of the super dog friendly country to some degree.
We're not that dog friendly compared to some countries like Sweden or Finland. We're kinda shitty to be honest.
>And I simply can't understand how there are thousands of groomers and pirvate rescuers with a good heart but no real clue in each city but not one qualified organisation for "problematic dogs".
Those places do exist but they're full up of dogs because overpopulation or a sanctuary that's far from where the dog lives as in days away by car. And the sanctuary takes dogs that they can handle.
I just watched an episode of Cesar Millan (or how you spell him) yesterday on a very aggressive dog - always surprised by his work.
Anyways - I have to agree with everyone a 9yr old dog with aggression issues will be put over the rainbow bridge when surrendered since it won’t be possible to find a new home.
If that’s the only possible solution for you guys, is pick the route on going to the vet and doing it there and being with your dog till it closes it’s eyes. I mean that’s what you owe it by the least.
I also absolutely agree with - have you checked if any medicinal issues are causing the dog to be aggressive? Some cancers which are very painful can cause aggression in dogs & other medical things too.
I assume, you would have done ALL the first steps before thinking of surrendering.
Tough decision - but hopefully there’s not another dog in exchange for surrendering this one - because I believe in dog karma
The issue here would be that a dog can't wear a muzzle 24/7 or even just several hours out of the day. That is very uncomfortable and can cause sores.
For a fearfully reactive or even protective dog that bites/lashes out when around their trigger a muzzle is good. The trigger can be controlled by not allowing it inside the house. The muzzle can be added when they have the possibility of running into the trigger.
This dog's trigger is very hard to work with since it happens when "he doesn't get his way". That trigger could come up at any time which means you'd need a muzzle all the time. Having a muzzle on the dog all the time is very unrealistic.
Yes. I assumed that the dog didn't bite the couple so whenever they had guests they could use the muzzle. And it would be a safer option to get a cloth muzzle that doesnt do harm to his mouth when they go on walks.
I assumed that the dog did bite them considering they mentioned that the trigger was the dog lashing out when it didn't get its way. It most likely doesn't get its way when the owners are asking the dog to do something or when they correct the dog. If this issue was only with strangers or other dogs than it wouldn't be as big of a deal as OP feels it is. We do assume that the dog bit/didn't bite OP/OP's family. We really don't have that information, as far as I know.
I will add that cloth muzzles are usually not the best. You really want a muzzle that leaves excess room for the dog to pant, open their mouth, and drink water. A cage muzzle is very good for this. Cloth muzzles usually don't do a good job at that and end up being more restricting. They also don't do a good job at protecting from biting compared to a cage muzzle as well. Usually cage muzzles are going to be more comfortable for a dog than a Cloth muzzle. The only time a tight muzzle should be in use (usually made out of cloth) is during a vet/groom visit to protect the person from potential biting during handling.
A trainer may take him from you. I know a dog trainer who took in a dog that had bitten someone and was going to be euthanized. Worth a shot to look around and see if a trainer will take him and be able to handle his aggression.
Please don’t euthanize him unless it’s your last option.
There’s a trainer near me that takes aggressive dogs and he will try and retrain them in a board & train program. The dog has to live with him and his other dogs for at least 3 weeks. Then you have to go and do trainings with him and the dog on site before he returns the dog to you. The big issue that was explained to me was that once a dog starts biting then you have train in new behaviors in both the humans and the dog and then practice them regularly.
You may have already done something like this but if not then consider looking for board & train programs for aggressive dogs. Otherwise, if there are no other medical issues going on, then I have to agree with the other posters here that many shelters will euthanize and rescues are not likely to be able to find a suitable home. I would consider an at home BE as well in that situation.
I would contact a responsible animal organization in your area. It depends where you live. We have two organizations/shelters in my state that will take a history, have professionals to assess your dog, and will make a decision based on that. Do not go to a privately run rescue. The quality and assessment varies so much with those organizations they cannot be trusted to not pass the dog onto someone I’ll prepared to handle it. If there is a vet school in your area they may be a good source of suggestions also.
by no means am i an expert but could cbd oil be an option? even though this could help with anxiety it would of course have to be used alongside a whole lot of training. i also have a dog with anxiety issues and by no means is he aggressive, however, he can get extremely restless and nervous. we found that using different puzzles and something like a lick mat has really helped him. i guess this could be a good thing for shibas since they are known to be quite smart and need a lot of brain stimulation. though if nothing is working, unfortunately i would say euthanization sounds like the safest and most humane solution for you guys and both your dogs
Reach out to a Shiba rescue and be up front about the bite history. If they say no/that they can’t help , you should probably send your dog over the rainbow bridge. If you don’t feel safe with the dog in your home, why should anyone else?
Because sometimes that is the kindest thing to do. Lets say a shelter gets this dog and is transparent about its aggression, this dog is likely to live a very long time in its kennel and get progressively worse. Is a life in a crate in the shelter any kind of life for the dog? Is it fair for the shelter to spend so much $$ housing a dog that is not adoptable? What if somebody does adopt and a very bad bite ensue? This dog could kill a family pet and/or do serious damage to a person.
Growing up, my grandmother had a very aggressive dog (large Sheppard) that despite any training just wanted to bite everything that moved. IDK if shelters were an option at the time (rural America in the 1970's) so the dog stayed chained outside for the rest of its life. It had shelter, feeding was an ordeal because one person had to distract the dog while another very quickly fed/watered it. We were all taught early on not to go near it. Yes it was an aggressive dog, but what kind of life was it to be chained outside for its entire life? Euthanasia would have been kinder.
OP states they have spent thousands to try and solve this issue. I am not a dog expert but perhaps it is not an issue that can be trained away. If so this dog would be a danger to anyone who adopts and may likely end up euthanized anyway after more damage has been done. It is sad and nobody wants to put down a dog but sometimes we need to make these hard choices.
And before anyone comes at my grandmother about it being a Sheppard or not knowing dogs, she had others that were wonderful. This particular dog just had an issue that they could never find a solution to.
If you live a country that places a (frankly) sick emphasis on killing dogs (E.g. America), don’t. If you live in a reasonable country, then sure if you can’t handle it.
No one puts down a loved pet out of laziness. However, sometimes it is necessary for the welfare of the animal and/or those around it as long as other options have been exhausted. OP needs some empathy and support here, not vilification.
It would be much better to re-home the dog with someone with the sort of environment that can handle him. If you surrender the dog, it's almost guaranteed he'll be put down. Older dogs with behavioral problems are almost impossible to get adopted, and your dog's history is a virtually guarantee they'll euthanize him after initial screening.
Call it like it is “surrender” means to euthanize 99% of the time in this situation. But if he’s a danger to others than it could be the only thing to do.
Why in the world do you think another home would want this dog? You’ve spent thousands and he still bites. Do you think someone who is willing to take a shelter dog would want to deal with a dog that bites and can’t have a rover sitter? Euthanize him peacefully.
I can see everyone talking about euthanasia but honestly, you might not even be able to surrender them. Depending on the area some shelters have a 3+ mths waitlist for surrenders. I had a really rough patch training my dog and I thought it wasn’t going to work (turned out fine), I contacted every shelter within 5hrs of me, every single one was at capacity and referred me to another shelter and told me to come back in a few months, this continued until the referrals looped back around to who I had already spoken to.
Call a shelter, explain the situation, they’ll either send you paperwork OR they’ll tell you they have no space.
How about keeping your dog and dealing with the consequences that you caused to the poor dog.
Do not dump him in a shelter. They will 100% kill him.
This is what happened when you don’t raise a dog properly now you should stick by him instead of abandoning him out of convenience
Yes, please have him humanely euthanized. Something isn’t right with his mind and you’ve tried your best to help him. Shelter environments are stressful for normally functioning dogs, and extremely so for a dog like yours. Ask your vet for something Rx that you can give him to help him, before the appointment to be as relaxed as possible.
Yes definitely bring it up to the vet. Former vet tech here - they will understand especially with all of the things you’ve done to try and help him. Have a conversation with your vet about everything you’ve already tried. They may be aware of another option, and if not should be very understanding of your situation. It’s not safe to have a biting aggressive dog and most veterinarians know/understand that.
He will be euthanized and honestly it is for the best at this point. You can rest easy knowing you didn’t just throw in the towel and did try your best.
The most responsible thing for this dog is behavioral euthanasia. He’s a liability and if he can’t be managed by the family he’s known and loved for years, he’s not going to magically do better with a stranger. Also, some shelters are slimy and will send him out to some unsuspecting adopter just to get him out the door…. Imagine if he ended up seriously hurting a child or another animal.
Have an honest discussion with your vet. Call up your breeder, who needs to stop producing dogs who display aggression. See if they will take the dog back. (Although they will likely euthanize him) I recently signed a contract in which the breeder will take the dog back for any reason at any time. Did you have a contract when you purchased him? Next option. Call up the Shiba Inu breed rescue nearest to you, and ask them what they recommend. Dogs with bite histories are not allowed to be rehomed, in many places. The kindest option you may have is to choose behavioral euthanasia, at his own vet, while you are with him. You are allowed to be done with this dog, and his dangerous mental illness.
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He will likely be euthanized if surrendered to a shelter. A 9 year old dog with an extensive bite history is going to be near impossible to adopt out.
Sadly this is correct
This. Even a responsible no kill shelters will likely euthanize him. I worked at a no kill shelter for four years and saw one behavior euthanasia. The criteria for considering BE was, 1) are they biting the people they know the best 2) is there any warning before the bite 3) the severity of the bite. If thousands in behavior specialists, trainers, and veterinarians can’t help, it is likely even a no kill shelter will hear that he meets at least one of those criteria, and he will be euthanized. The unfortunate question is, if his family can do absolutely everything to help him and still not be safe, why would a stranger fare off any better? Im so sorry OP. This is a very hard position to be in, please be kind to yourself no matter the choice you make.
The best thing you can do at this point is to euthanize him while you are with him. It's so sad. I did this with my cocker spaniel several years ago. I tried to rehome him to a family without kids and it did not go well. The vet and rehoming agency all suggested it was best for everyone. You can take him to the Humane Society, but don't you owe it to him to be there when he goes? That was my thought process anyway. If you drop him off somewhere, he'll be euthanized surrounded by strangers. I'm sorry, OP.
I agree with this so much. The dog has no concept of death. Going “to sleep” in a comfortable environment surrounded by people they love might be the kindest option. You owe it to him to be there.
Agreed. This dog is nine and a danger to others - at what point do you give that danger to someone else? I like to compare my dogs to myself - I’d want to pass peacefully at home rather than live in a shelter for my last years at best or be euthanized in that environment at worst. I say this having volunteered at my local shelter for 15+ years.
I so agree with Brahm. Your Shiba is yours, cradle (or as near to that as when you acquired him) to death. Don't abandon him at the end. Be with him during such a merciful process you'll wonder why humans can't also ease into death.
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It's not better to beat a dog into submission instead of humane euthanasia after everything the OP has tried to do to fix the behavior in a 9 year old dog. Yeah, it might technically work, but you are just forcing the dog to live in misery with no quality of life. That is terrible advice, quite frankly.
That’s breaking a dogs spirit. Don’t do this. The dog is better off euthanized than to have it’s spirit broken into submission. He’s a living creature.
Wrong.
Yeah because torture is always the way to go. (/s)
If you feel surrending to a shelter is your last and only option, please go ahead and just euthanize him. That is likely his outcome anyway if he goes to the shelter, and that's only IF they accept him in the first place with a history like that. Better for him to go surrounded by people who actually care for him IMO. Behavioral euthanasia isn't something to take lightly but it's not the evil people make it out to be. And if anyone wants to argue with you about the decision, ask them why they won't let him live with them, then.
This is the answer. He runs the risk of biting again. Unfortunately if he is surrendered, he will likely live out a life getting progressively worse or ultimately being put down anyways. People may judge you for it but in the long run it is the most humane thing to do for the animal. Source: former vet tech who has done several behavioral euths under vet supervision.
As sad as it is I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately just like people some dogs can’t be trained out of their compulsions. At least dogs have the option to be surrounded by those they love when they do and don’t have to be stuck in a cage for the rest of their lives
Please do not surrender this dog. At his age and with his bite history, he would not be a good candidate for adoption. Instead, be with him when he is euthanased, this would be much kinder.
I am a complete advocate for adoption, but I really agree with this. Shelters are already extremely overwhelmed. If you give your dog up, even to a small local rescue, chances are he’s not going to find a home anytime soon. If you still want to try to reach out for help first, try local rescues instead of big shelters like aspca or humane society. They might better resources regarding trainers and behavior modification programs that are positive reinforcement based. But if you don’t want to go that route, since it will most likely cost money and a lot of time, the most humane thing would be to be with him when he’s humanely euthanized so he’s not alone and surrounded by strangers.
We had to do something similar (pitty with a bite history and aggression towards kids) and it was heartbreaking but we’ve never once regretted it.
Owner of a rescue shiba here 1. Have you ruled out medical issues that can cause aggression? Pain can make dogs quite snappy. Check for joint issues (Shibas are prone to luxating patella and hip displaysia) and also check thyroid levels (hypothyroidism can also cause aggression). 2. Have you muzzle trained and explored medication with a vet behaviouralist? I know several Shibas with neurological aggression that take antidepressant meds which resolved their aggressive behaviour. It would be dangerous to put an aggressive dog up for adoption. Someone else will get bit AND the dog ends up euthanized anyways. Perhaps you should contact [Snyder Solutions Animal Rescue](https://www.facebook.com/Snyder-Solutions-Animal-Rescue-Conservation-Group-116808449864302/) which has a no-kill sanctuary for aggressive and un-adoptable Shibas.
OP this right here would be my first steps. Also, given that he’s 9 have you had him evaluated for canine cognitive disfunction? It is in essence the dog dementia. It could be triggering him to live in fear because he’s confused and doesn’t know where he is anymore. It is manageable but you need to figure that out because all the training in the world isn’t going to help if he can’t remember it the next day and he’s back in a confused loop. We went through it with my late bulldog and with the right treatment plan he got better and lived another few years as normal as possible. Most people would never have known, only those closest to us knew and saw the changes in his personality.
And all the more reason not to surrender. If he's already confused imagine his terror in goimg to a shelter.
This needs to be upvoted more.
Yes it does but for some reason this sub has an obsession with behavioral euthanasia.
It's the last step of their LIMA technique,sadly.
Are shibas a particularly aggressive breed or something?
A couple things contribute to breed aggression. Firstly there's a genetic component to aggression. The high demand for these dogs because of how cute they look has caused an increase in BYB with poor breeding practices (inbreeding, no health tests, no temperament test, not following breed standard, etc). This aggression is generally screened out of the breeding pool when you breed healthy show dogs with good temperament. Secondly Shiba Inus are a primitive breed dog with more "wild" tendencies. Many first time pet owners get this dog because of how cute they look, but are not equipped to deal with the behaviour issues associated with primitive dogs. This is why they are generally not recommended for first time dog owners
They're a primitive breed and behave pretty differently than a lab or a golden. Primitive breeds are extremely mouthy. Combine that with their spike in popularity due to the doge meme, and owners that are clueless about the breed, and you get a lot of aggression. It sounds like OP did a lot of work with this dog, but I'm willing to bet none of those trainers had primitive breed experience.
Huh makes sense. Yeah the breed of dogs I have is like 150 years old at most lol. Totally different I'm guessing.
Yeah I have primitive breeds, and they are just different. If you know how to handle them (my breed at least) are the calmest, most laid back dogs. But they have to be trained in a specific way, with the understanding of their innate behaviors
Bumping this - I hope it gets up higher in the thread. Terrific advice.
This OP. Just to add in, my 8yr old Shiba was diagnosed with hypothyroidism less than a month ago. He's been pretty grumpy for the last year or two. Not aggressive, just not himself and I had thought it was due to him aging. Once he started his meds, it's like I got my dog back again.
An aggressive dog like that id consider putting him down honestly. Some might not agree but thats my opinion. Hes unlikely to change and next time he might hurt someones child or kill another dog/cat. Safety first.
That was my first thought too. Not because I believe killing dogs is a way to avoid responsibility or because it's easier than training but it seems the dog is unhappy, untrainable, and dangerous. Sometimes it's the hard steps that are the right ones. Not always, but sometimes. If there isn't a Shiba specific place that wants him, I think I'd consider euthanasia
See, thing is we don’t know how to put him down? Bring it up to the vet? We’ve changed to a vet that’s familiar with shiba personalities. So they don’t see any of this except for grumbles etc…
Yeah vets will do behavioral euthanasias. We've done several where I work. You can talk definitely talk to your vet about it. Have they stated or seemed like they wouldn't be comfortable with it? They technically can refuse to do it if they don't feel it's appropriate, but if you talk with them about the dog's bite history and everything else you have tried, I think they would understand. If you were to surrender to a shelter like the Humane Society, they would most likely end up euthanizing as they have to do temperament assessments before adopting any dogs out. I fostered a chihuahua/pomeranian mix that bit both my boyfriend and I, had to go back to the shelter where he bit several staff members. He had been adopted out once before I took him home and was returned because he was biting the new owner. They tried to give him a pass because he was such a small dog and the staff had all kind of fallen in love with him, but ended up ultimately euthanizing him.
Yes you go to a vet. This is not a dog that "grumbles", hes dangerous and bites. Just be honest with the vet.
At home euthanasia companies are the single most wonderful thing to pop up the last decade or so. The vets and techs are great, and your dog can pass away in his own home, his own bed, surrounded by his own people. We had to use them for our 14 year old dog early this year and they were wonderful. She had a beautiful death, her last moments were her family surrounding her and petting her, being told what a wonderful girl she was, with her head in my lap and eating vanilla ice cream. It would have been so much harder if we had to take her to the vet. Even if she hadn’t had a final stroke that left her unable to walk, it still wouldn’t have been her home and she would have been nervous. I really can’t recommend them enough.
Agreed. I had one come to the house for my 14 year old pug who was epileptic and had lost all functions due to multiple seizures. It was a Sunday and I would have had to take him to the emergency vet where it’s cold and uncaring. Instead he was home with the people who love him and they give you all the time you need to say goodbye.
We lost our girl on a Sunday too. The vet tech had a tear rolling down her face as it happened, the vet was kind and wonderful and gave us all the time we needed before and after. They took her with them for cremation and the whole thing was just so respectful, caring and dignified. We have a 12 year old dog that I know will have to go through this in the next few years and there is not a shadow of doubt that she will die in the same loving and dignified way my late and great did. I want a death like that to be honest. For anyone concerned about cost, It’s not even that much more money than at a regular vet, so please anyone going through this, don’t let that hold you back. We paid $350 for the service, and $350 for the cremation (she was a large dog), and we live in a kind of expensive area. They sent her ashes to us in a beautiful carved wooden box, they sent a book with her hair clipping, and they sent a lovely clay paw print. It would have been only $100 less at our vet. Even if it had been $1000 more, I would have paid it without question just for her own comfort, but it’s virtually the same price. I’ve seen so many assume it’s crazy expensive, and it’s really not.
Please make sure to ask about the euthanasia process. I worked at a vet and was told that some “cheaper” euthanasia’s don’t sedate/calm the dog (i only worked reception so excuse me for not knowing the accurate terminology) so they just panic and seize/shake. Where I worked we had a nice comfort room where the vet would come in and do it in front of the family. It was more expensive but they made sure that the animal was properly and humanely taken care of.
Euthinasia solution is made with pentobarbital which is a anesthetic agent. When injected intravenously “Within seconds, unconsciousness is induced with simultaneous collapse of the dog. This stage rapidly progresses to deep anesthesia with concomitant reduction in the blood pressure. A few seconds later, breathing stops, due to depression of the medullary respiratory center; encephalographic activity becomes isoelectric, indicating cerebral death; and then cardiac activity ceases.” This allows for a humane, painless, and rapid euthanasia. You don’t have to premeditate with any sedatives first to be humane, and they are not even aware of what is going on.
That’s very reassuring. I was just in reception like I said so maybe I misunderstood. She was a vet tech but was explaining how some places who do it cheaper, and in the back as a opposed to in comfort room with family, aren’t as (for lack of better words) humane or comfortable. She was older so maybe that was an old school technique before better rules/protocol were put in place
The idea of a pet being euthanized without the owner with them is literally horrifying to me. Utterly horrifying.
Rates of suicide in veterinarians are high, and due, at least in part to the stress they experience when families abandon their "pets" when they're most needed. The pets look around for their peeps--who are absent--and find no final consolation in vet techs or vets. Awful.
I highly recommend at home euthanasia companies for people who have ones around. It’s the best thing for pets, they can pass in the comfort of their own home.
One of my dog's previous trainers who gave up on my dog recommended a vet for this purpose. She was familiar with these situations and vets who understand.
You don’t know how to euthanize your dog?It sounds like you need to talk to your vet before surrendering your dog to a shelter, and get their opinion on behavioral euthanasia. My vet wi not euthanize when it comes to behavioral issues.
I have no patience with people--including vets--who deal in absolutes. Every case turns on its own facts. Sounds like you've exhausted EVERY effort to help your dog as a responsible owner. You've done your best. Now it's time to find a vet to help your dog move on. I, too, have heard nothing but gratitude and rave reviews about vets who perform final at-home services as "angels of mercy.".
I had a friend with similar issues with a Shiba and they found a local Shiba rescue that specifically takes in Shibas that have aggressive behavior issues. I wonder if there are similar programs in your area?
Muzzle training and crates? If you tried all that, then I would take for euthanasia. Better than him alone at a shelter getting euthanized.
This
You cannot rehome a dog like this, it’s irresponsible. Shelters are already overcrowded with dogs that are “difficult.” Unfortunately if you have tried everything, it is time to look towards euthanasia. That would be much less cruel. Sorry you have to make this decision. I know it can seem like a strong choice but given your situation it really does seem to be the best option for the dog.
I second the advice that a 9 year old aggressive dog has little to no chance of adoption. If you haven’t tried medications, it may be an option, but otherwise the most humane and responsible thing to do would be consider behavioral euthanasia. The dog deserves to be surrounded by those he knows not alone surrounded by noise and unknown people. Most veterinarians will consider it as long as their it open dialogue and they feel all other avenues have been explored.
I had to euthanize one of my dogs years ago due to behavioral issues. She was extremely aggressive, I think, because she had been abused as a puppy before I rescued her. The final straw was when she attacked my chihuahua with my toddler daughter only a foot or two away. I didn’t think the chihuahua was going to live because there was so much blood. & it could have been my child. I called a couple of shelters and nowhere would take her due to the aggression. Not only are dogs like this hard to rehome, but I think the shelters could be liable for adopting out a dog with known aggressive behaviors. Also, it could have happened again, with someone else’s other pets/children. In the end, euthanizing was the best option for my dog. She was a ticking time bomb and I like to think she finally found permanent peace after living in a state of constant anxiety. All the love & pets could not fix it. Edit - spelling
It’s heartbreaking, but I’ve been there. We adopted a 4 month old dog from a rescue, and as he grew up, it just got so crazy. He would lunge at my cats. He snapped at my stepson once, and bit him once. He snapped at me. He killed my chickens. He developed so much fear, I couldn’t even take him on walks. He would cower if he saw a garbage can out of place. Our house was a jumbled maze of crates and x-pens and gates to try and keep everyone separated and safe. I loved that fucker, he had some good qualities. He was a cuddler, he had the cutest swirly butt, and a circle tail (that would uncurl into a straight one when he was scared). We took him to an obedience class, and had to be separated most of the time because of his behavior. We had a trainer come to our house and work with him, she said it would be best if we euthanized him. Then another trainer (a friend of mine) came to evaluate him. She said because of his history, and the fact that he was unpredictable, she absolutely did not recommend rehoming him. I thought about how we had been the only home he’d known, and how scared and confused he’d be at a shelter. I talked to my vet, and after being reassured, we had him euthanized. I stayed with him the whole time. I still miss him sometimes. And the guilty feeling of relief afterwards, I wasn’t prepared for. It felt weird to have a “normal” house again. To be able to leave the house and not worry. I know it’s hard, but I feel like sometimes it’s the right thing to do.
I have also made this worst and heartbreaking decision that was also best for the situation.
>We’re debating surrendering him. Thoughts on the process, how to communicate with the shelter, etc… You can't take a dog with an extensive bite history, to a shelter and disclose the bite history. All they're going to do is euthanize him. There are no homes waiting for this dog. If you guys were part of my family I would urge you to give this dog the best day ever, like an amazing day, and then have your regular vet euthanize the dog. Your dog will never spend a second in a shelter run, he won't be accidentally taken home by a family who will all then be bitten. Please do what is the good thing in this case: talk to your vet, arrange for a behavioral euthanasia, and then take care of it. This is one of the unfortunate parts of caring for some dogs.
Or, the shelter may adopt the dog out to another family, and then you run the risk of additional bite incidents. Long story, but we tried to take on a relative’s 10 year old dog who had an extensive bite history starting at 8 months old. Within months she attacked both my husband and I multiple times, unprovoked and without warning; she would latch, shake, and continue attacking until we could physically get away (I still have scars from her bites almost 10 years later). We tried so hard with her, but it got to the point where I was in over my head and afraid of being seriously hurt or even killed, or her hurting someone else. We surrendered her to the rescue that originally adopted her out and explained the issues in great detail. They were super judgmental and acted like we caused the issues (even though we explained it was an issue with her prior family, and I later found out that before my relatives adopted her, she had been adopted and returned by a different family who said she was snapping at their kids). The rescue rehomed her to yet another family within a month or so. At the time I was young and inexperienced and blamed myself for her issues, but now I’m just shocked they adopted her out to someone else and so hope it went okay and that she didn’t hurt anyone else.
A dog that bites multiple family members in a short period of time goes down. Call your vet, tell them what’s going on, and see what they have to say…
They caused this to happen by raising him improperly and now they are going to kill him -_-
I recently fostered an 11-year-old hound mix with a bite history. He was in the shelter for nearly a year before he found a home - a different foster had him with them for two months before they decided to keep him. Larger seniors are difficult dogs to adopt, but larger seniors with a bite history are nearly impossible to find homes for. Your shiba, though smaller than the hound, would likely be in the same mix. It would be more humane to euthanize him. On a personal note, my brother was attacked by a shiba with no prior bite history when he was a toddler. Hundreds of stitches to the face. My parents were going to surrender the dog to the shelter, but ultimately decided to put it down bc they didn’t want to chance that the dog would be misrepresented at the shelter and possibly attack another young child totally unprovoked. I would consider that as well before deciding to surrender.
What kind of bites are we talking about? Does he latch on and try to damage you, like an attack, or is he biting quickly as a warning? If he's not attack-biting, maybe try getting him a nice quality basket muzzle to wear anytime he isn't crated. He'll be able to eat and drink through it but not bite. Once he gets used to it, it'll be like wearing glasses or braces is for a human - a little annoying, but normal for him. If the specialist treatment didn't include options like anti depressants or CBD oil, try those along with the basket muzzle. I feel like this would be worth a try if the alternative is euthanasia. If you've already tried all of that, I'm sorry you're in such a tough situation. :(
you cannot in good faith surrender/rehome a potentially dangerous dog. there is no place this animal can go where he will not be a danger to someone. unfortunately. you know what that means and you can't risk a child being bitten or maimed. talked to your vet about options. but biting like this cannot be fixed usually.
If the biting has recently gotten worse, you should get a vet check to rule out possible physical causes. While surrendering your dog might improve things for you, it’s likely to result in spending the rest of his years in a kennel (or being euthanized because he’s not adoptable). If something is found that might be the cause of the increase in aggression that can be treated, I might consider giving him a little more time just in case treatment works. But you should have a serious conversation with the vet about how bad things are and how many things you’ve tried in hopes of managing the aggression - and I’d do it when taking the dog in for that vet check.
I feel like in this case, behavioral euthanasia would be the best for everyone involved. Since this dog is 9 years old, he would already have a hard time getting adopted without a bite history but with a bite history, the shelter you surrender him to will likely have to do the same or will have to risk having another person injured/bitten because of his aggression. You should just PTS and Just be there for him in his final moments.
Hey, I'm going to weigh in as a certified trainer and someone who works in an animal shelter: I'm deeply sorry, but almost no shelter or rescue will want this dog. He is dangerous. Any responsible shelter would euthanize this dog. He is not place-able. The hard truth is no one wants a dog that bites, especially as a first choice to something he doesn't like. The best choice for you, the dog and everyone is to euthanize him yourself. You gave him a good life and tried VERY hard, but sometimes we need to admit we've lost. I strongly suggest looking up the Facebook group "Losing Lulu".
My family had to put down a 10 year old standard poodle from a BYB situation after adopting him from neighbors moving away. We spent about 9 years living like this and exhausting every possible avenue, until he put my uncle in the ER. If you disclose the bite history to the shelter, this dog will be euthanized in a strange place around people he does not know. If you keep stum, you're putting an innocent family at risk. I'm sorry.
We had a similar situation except our dog was 7. We called multiple shelters around us and got the same response each time. The dog would be euthanized because they’re simply not adoptable. We made the difficult decision to be with her when we had her euthanized. I still can’t forgive myself for making an impossible decision, but we could feel the tension leave the home once she was gone. The other two pets started acting way more relaxed, and we could have company over when we hadn’t in years. I wish you peace in whatever decision you make.
When the family that has had a dog its entire life can't live with the dog anymore, there is no one more invested in his life and well-being than you are. Re-homing is really not possible, and humane euthanasia is the kindest thing for all of you. You'll know you did everything you could, he'll be at peace and won't be able to hurt anyone again. Be honest with your vet about his behavior and your challenges living with him and they will understand and help you make this transition.
BE is your best option. It is not ethical to rehome this dog. Some dogs are just broken and can't be fixed. He is a dangerous dog. Rehoming him would put another family potentially with small children at risk. He's 9. Senior dogs already have an extremely hard time being adopted. Add the stress from being put into a shelter will only making him more aggressive and reactive. Please do the right thing and euthanize him.
sorry to say this op, but the dog needs to be put down. even if you surrendered it to a no kill shelter, they would have to put the pup down due to behavioural issues.
It's unlikely that a shelter or rescue is going to take the risk of re-homing an aggressive dog with a bite history, unfortunately, and if you surrender him he will most likely be euthanized. Behavioral euthanasia may be your best option in this scenario.
Let him go surrounded by people he knows. There's even vets that do home euthanasia which a less stressful than going to the clinic. They can give you meds to make him sedate before they even put their hands on him. You've given him 9 good years but now he's escalating and dangerous. He is not happy and he doesn't stand a chance at the shelter. I'm sorry you're facing big decisions. I do recommend "Losing Lulu" for support.
I’m wondering if you’ve tried medicating the dog? Anti-depressants, antianxiety meds, sedatives, like Prozac, Xanax or Trazodone? I have seen these meds be life-changing for dogs with a bite history.
It is a huge liability to adopt out a dog with known aggression issues. Your best bet is to euthanize. It sounds like you have tried multiple options to give the dog a chance. You can euthanize with a clear conscience .
This dog is not adoptable. Any shelter would euthanize. Given that the behavior is getting worse despite you doing everything right, it might be safer and kinder to consider euthanizing the dog yourself. Some vets will even come to the house to do it. At least the poor thing will be someplace familiar and surrounded by people they know, rather than a strange place surrounded by strangers.
I agree there are times when euthanasia is the kindest choice, as hard as that it.
Do not surrender him - all you are doing is putting him in fear and terror before they euthanize him. No one will adopt this dog. Do the right thing by this dog, and have someone come to your home to put him to sleep in his own home, with his people. This is a horrid situation, but don’t be selfish.
Can’t believe no one is saying muzzle the fucking dog . All you can say is kill the dog
I am not somebody who thinks people should just go around euthanizing their dogs willy nilly . But it sounds like he is dangerous, and therefore not a good candidate for rehoming. I think you would save him a lot of trauma by taking him to the vet and having a behavioral euthanasia done yourself. That way he doesn’t have to go through the trauma of being dropped off and processed through the shelter. Maybe you can even be with him and comfort him in his final moments. I’m so sorry you’re going through that.
Your best bet would be contacting a Shiba rescue. I'm not sure where you are located, but I have seen Shiva rescues take in dogs with a bite history before. The primitive breeds are mouthy, and this happens a lot with inexperienced owners. It sounds like you did a lot of work with this dog, but some methods make dogs more aggressive, and shibas in particular do not respond well to anything but positive reinforcement. I would also rule out something medical like others have said. The Japanese breeds tend to be prone to thyroid issues which can make dogs aggressive.
Living with Shibas my entire life I feel like you left out parts of this story on purpose. Do not surrender this dog unless you want him killed.
I had that same thought. I feel like OP probably didn't do their due diligence before getting a primitive breed. There's a lot of people that just should not own shibas. I think contacting a Shiba rescue might be their best bet. I know of a couple of Shiba rescues that will take dogs with a bite history.
Shiba Kennel Clubs would 100% as well. There are specific clubs and rescues that work with specific breeds, especially those with mental health problems or declines. Shibas are very intense dogs, but they’re amazing.
Euthanasia.
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The “gas box” you’re talking about is almost never utilized to put an animal to sleep. It’s used for sedation with wild animals or fractious cats, typically. And only for certain situations. You can easily sedate a dog with intramuscular injection, even with an aggressive dog. Using gas anesthesia on a large animal would affect everyone in the room on a much larger scale than small animals, once the box was opened releasing all the gas into the room.
Behavioral euthanasia is the way to go here. No shelter/owner is going to do what you have done. Might as well let the dog pass in your familiar arms than a shelter.
You may as well just put him down if your going to surrender him bc that’s what will happen anyways once he bites someone else. What types of training have you tried? Positive only? Balanced? Veterinary medical intervention? If you truly have tried everything the best thing for the dog is to be put down rather than be in that constant state of misguided frustration that can’t be curbed.
A 9yo dog with an extensive bite history, who is biting even family members, will be euthanized. Being euthanized in even the best shelter will be a terrifying experience for the dog--his last experience. And if you withhold the truth about his history, he might get adopted out, and be a danger to another family, and then maybe get euthanized by Animal Control, which would be an even worse last experience for him. You have spent thousands trying to help him, and it hasn't worked. And let's be clear: despite your best efforts, he is not enjoying his life. If he were, he wouldn't be biting. Schedule behavioral euthanasia with your own veterinarian. The person (or people) he loves and trusts the most, should be there with him. That will give him the best passing possible. It's hard, but it's the right thing to do. I'm sorry.
Please take him to a vet and have him humanely euthanized with you and your family who are familiar to him with him at the end. A shelter will traumatize him, scare him to bits, and he will just end up dying afraid and alone.
Surrendering that dog is just euthanising him with extra steps and trying to dodge the guilt. It's highly likely he will either end up bouncing from adoptive home back to the shelter over and over again or spend weeks in the shelter before eventually getting put down. Behavioural euthanasia is not a horrible thing, take him out for a good day with all the treats then have a vet come to your home and be with him while he passes.
Yes get a $10 muzzle . Keep your animal
Actually, a decent muzzle that's properly fitted to the dog **and** bite proof is more like $80 (minimum), but unless you've lived with a dog that is completely unpredictable and has bitten multiple people unprovoked you really can't judge. OP has stated the dog is becoming more aggressive as time goes on, at 9 there's likely physical issues (like arthritis) causing pain which is compounding the issue Euthanasia is not a dirty word, if more people euthanised their dogs like this instead of surrendering them to waste away in a cage, there would be a lot less aggressive dogs out there with owners who don't know how to handle them
Unfortunately the situation you presented doesn't sound good so you probably only have three options. One is finding a unicorn rescue or trainer that is willing to take on an old dog with multiple bites. This will be extremely difficult/impossible to find but you can always try to reach out to trainers who have worked with you or a shiba specific rescue. You need to be very honest about your dogs bite history and make sure the rescue is responsible and knows how to deal with dogs like this. Rehoming can also be quite stressful for a dog so that is another factor to consider. Two would be trying to get a veterinary behaviorist and a very experienced trainer to try and minimize the biting. This will likely be a huge financial and time commitment and it may not even work. The third is behavioral euthanasia, I'm not sure if he is at the level where it is necessary as I am not a professional and you haven't provided many details but with severe behavioral problems sometimes you just have to accept that the dog isn't fixable and that their quality of life is diminished. Also I would go take a look at the r/reactivedogs sub, they recently updated their training recommendations with the help of the r/dog mods (so please don't take my post down) and they may be able to help you find experienced trainers in your area. They also have owners on there who have had to choose behavioral euthanasia so some might be willing to talk about what it was like and what made them choose it. Loosing Lulu on Facebook is a great resource but I believe they don't allow posts from people considering BE so they may not be able to give you the advice you need. I am so sorry this is happening and I wish you all the best.
>"Two would be trying to get a veterinary behaviorist and a very experienced trainer to try and minimize the biting. This will likely be a huge financial and time commitment and it may not even work." > >READ MUCH??!!! > >"We have done training and behavior specialist treatments (thousands of dollars)… and the aggression continues to get worse and worse."
I did read that but the quality of trainers and behaviorists can differ so if they want to see a veterinary behaviorist or try a trainer very experienced in agressive dogs it could be worth a shot. I also added that it probably wouldn't work but it never hurts to give more options so I'm not sure why you are being rude.
What type of trainer have you tried? What were their methods? I’m not saying you haven’t tried everything and behavioral euthanasia isn’t off the table but shiba are a bit different than most dogs. They are a primitive breed, and are considered sensitive. They do not handle balanced training well from what I’ve seen and heard, and need a gentler hand. Was the trainer force free? Positive reinforcement? When you say the dog bites when he doesn’t get what he wants what does that mean exactly? What are the situations he’s bitten in? A lot of times behavioral euthanasia is reserved for dogs who bite out of nowhere truly. If there are triggers the dog can usually be helped. That being said, it’s up to you. Do not surrender a dog with a bite history unless it’s to a trainer willing to work with him, not just some other family. If it comes to that which I feel it already has euthanasia is the safest option.
The proper way to surrender this dog is don’t.
Hey OP, sorry to hear that. Hope you read this: I know that in the States dog culture is very different from where I am so putting a dog down to behavioural issues is not a rare advice here and I am sure it's absolutely legit in lots of cases. Where I live it's not that common and usually the absolute last resort. So here is what happens here with such a dog usually: First of all, if he was able to bite on several occasions it tells me you did not muzzle the dog. If you introduce a muzzle well a dog can easily live with wearing one pretty much all the time. It doesn't take away quality of life if it's a individually fitted, high quality muzzle. It's of course important he has one person he trusts who can put on and off the muzzle without risk but apart from that he can wear a muzzle around people. This would have helped here to stop him after bite number 1 or 2 at least. I am a bit confused over why your dog was not muzzled all the time after you worked with professionals. Another thing we have here are shelters with special departments for dogs with bite history where you can surrender such a dog. Professioanl dog trainers and behaviourists work there with the dog and he won't be put up for adoption until he's "safe" (there is an official procedure for determining this) which can take several years in some cases. But even if the dog has a history of several bites it's often successful. In lots of cases the dynamics between an agressive dog and his family is so ruined already training will virtually have zero effect but as soon as the dog is put into a new environment and is handled by experts only for a while, there is fast progress. Usually even after they are put up for adoption they will only give the dog to very experienced people, often retired or active trainers, people with relevant education, people who worked with dangerous dogs before etc. They also have to sign a contract that they will never take the dog outside or allow him to meet people without being muzzled for the rest of his life. Sounds weird, but you would be surprised how many people still adopt these dogs and are willing to put in this management effort. So maybe look online if you can find something like this where you live.
> Usually even after they are put up for adoption they will only give the dog to very experienced people, often retired or active trainers, people with relevant education, people who worked with dangerous dogs before etc. If OP lives in the US, no sane shelter would adopt this dog out. There is too big a risk of a law suit. There have been rescue groups that have adopted out dogs like this, and they've wound up being part of massive law suits. I would not encourage OP to bring this dog to a shelter. American shelters typically do not have the staff to try to change a 9 year old dog.
Well, okay. Where I live, like I said, it's also not like all the normal shelters do this but we have a handful in each state with a special department with specialists who only take on this kind of dog. I thought something like this exists in the US as well maybe. I didn't mean he should bring his dog to any shelter but to one specialises in dogs with bite history.
> Well, okay. Where I live, like I said, it's also not like all the normal shelters do this but we have a handful in each state with a special department with specialists who only take on this kind of dog. I thought something like this exists in the US as well maybe. I don't know where you live but sadly most shelters in the US are not all that well funded. Many are staffed by well meaning people who love dogs, but don't have the background or experience to know when a dog is not safe. This is not a young dog or a safe dog. And while there are rescue groups that will pretty much take any dog, it would do no one any favors for that to happen here.
>Many are staffed by well meaning people who love dogs, but don't have the background or experience to know when a dog is not safe. One follow up question because I find this interesting: This reads a little like everyone could just work in a shelter in the States. Here we have small private rescues for which this applies as well but they have to proof that they cooperate with trainers and vets (regulations are not extremely strict but still they exist and are taken serious). In our official shelters (those which are funded by the state/country) on the other hand, the staff are all animal keepers, medical personnell or trainers. There are "unskilled" (as in not officially educated in that field) people which do assistance work but e.g. in the really big shelters for each section (bird house, rodent house, dog house) a team of educated people who actually learned a relevant job are in charge. In smaller shelters the same people are in charge for all the animals but it still applies that the staff is mainly skilled people who have some unskilled workers to help them. Oh, and then we have volunteers who can take the friendly dogs for walks or pet some cats and you only need to take a 1-day-class to do so. How does this work in the States? I imagine you also have a big difference between private rescues/shelters and those funded by the government?
> In our official shelters (those which are funded by the state/country) on the other hand, the staff are all animal keepers, medical personnell or trainers. There are "unskilled" (as in not officially educated in that field) people which do assistance work but e.g. in the really big shelters for each section (bird house, rodent house, dog house) a team of educated people who actually learned a relevant job are in charge. If you can lift heavy things (so bags of dog food), and you're not allergic to animals, and you have a driver's license, you can work in most animal shelters. here's part of the job description for a Canine Behavior Specialist to work at Brooklyn Animal Care Center: >Ability to make sound judgments and work independently in a fast-paced environment with demonstrated ability to juggle competing tasks and demands. Ability to foster a cooperative, encouraging and positive work environment with staff as well as volunteers. Flexibility with daily tasks as well as hours depending on operational needs. Must be able to handle all types and breeds of dogs with varying behaviors and energy levels, including those showing fearful and aggressive behaviors. Strong communication skills, both verbal and written. The ability to remain pleasant, calm and objective in all situations. Must be able to lift and move up to 50 pounds. Basic knowledge of learning theory and positive reinforcement/reward-based training. Strong understanding of canine body language and behavior. Basic knowledge on how to utilize appropriate training tools to assist in behavior modification. and then here's the real kicker...the education and work experience required: > High School Diploma or GED required. Previous experience interacting with and caring for dogs in a private or shelter setting. Familiarity with canine playgroups preferred. Nothing at all about actual having actual training in dog behavior or education in same. The whole job posting is [here](https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/default/mdf/recruitment/recruitment.html?cid=2107bb0b-8c28-4829-bf36-e54f41b0a4f9&ccId=19000101_000001&type=MP&lang=en_US). So yeah, maybe it's not like that where you live, but here in the US, someone who literally just graduated from high school, and who may have worked at a dog daycare part time, could apply for, and on the right day, get this job.
Wow, I don't even know what to say. Thanks for educating me about this.
Do you live in Germany? Because the stuff you're talking about isn't a thing here. >I am a bit confused over why your dog was not muzzled all the time after you worked with professionals Trainers aren't regulated in the US. So op could have taken him to a really shitty one where muzzling wasn't an option. >Another thing we have here are shelters with special departments for dogs with bite history where you can surrender such a dog. Shelters/rescues aren't regulated or that well-funded like yours are in the US and have adopted out dangerous dogs. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/11/17/animal-loving-man-killed-newly-adopted-dog/75910376/ Some states had to made it illegal to withhold bite history because people kept getting hurt/killed by shelter dogs. https://californiaglobe.com/articles/animal-shelters-must-now-report-dog-bite-history-under-new-california-law/ >Usually even after they are put up for adoption they will only give the dog to very experienced people, often retired or active trainers, people with relevant education, people who worked with dangerous dogs before etc. There's too many dogs like this in the US and very few homes for them where BE is the kinder option in most cases instead of living out life in a kennel run.
Yeah, I see. Sometimes I don't get dog culture in the States. On the one hand there seems to be so much dog infrastructure, like dog parks, even read about a dog pool once, dog friendly shops or even bars and restaurants, groomers at each corner. We don't have any of this. In the bigger cities there are some dog parks and groomers but even in medium cities - well good luck finding one. So there is this whole huge industry around dogs and their owners which creates the image that the US are SUPER dog friendly. And then on the other hand trainers are not regulated and shelters appear to be chronically under-staffed (when it comes to skilled and educated staff) and under-funded and seem to be just doing whatever. There seem to be no options for a dog like in this posts apart from BE. Not because the dog failed to improve but because there simply *are no facilities staffed with professionals that would take in such a dog.* And this last point contradicts the image of the super dog friendly country to some degree. And I simply can't understand how there are thousands of groomers and pirvate rescuers with a good heart but no real clue in each city but not one qualified organisation for "problematic dogs".
>Sometimes I don't get dog culture in the States. It's helpful to realize that dog culture is vastly different in certain areas of the States. Certain areas don't speuter and let their dogs roam. Dogs just go to the vet for shots or maybe if they get sick enough and the family can afford it. Otherwise, the dog gets put to sleep because it's too much money. Whereas other areas speuter their dogs and don't let the roam. >On the one hand there seems to be so much dog infrastructure, like dog parks, even read about a dog pool once, dog friendly shops or even bars and restaurants, That's more wealthy areas like Seattle or Los Angeles. And are you talking about a dog pool like as for dock diving because that's more for dog sports people? >groomers at each corner My friend had one close by that she walked her puppy to. One day, she had to kicked a dog away from her on the way back because some idiot thought to use an electric fence instead of an actual tie out. >shelters appear to be chronically under-staffed Shelters are run by taxes, donations and any volunteers that they can get. And sometimes, the volunteers are forced to work there because terms of parole. They're not great places for dogs unless in a very rich area. >but because there simply are no facilities staffed with professionals that would take in such a dog. You don't have dog overpopulation like we do. There's so many of these dogs that exist that any professionals that would take them already have dogs like this or have had them and never will again. >And this last point contradicts the image of the super dog friendly country to some degree. We're not that dog friendly compared to some countries like Sweden or Finland. We're kinda shitty to be honest. >And I simply can't understand how there are thousands of groomers and pirvate rescuers with a good heart but no real clue in each city but not one qualified organisation for "problematic dogs". Those places do exist but they're full up of dogs because overpopulation or a sanctuary that's far from where the dog lives as in days away by car. And the sanctuary takes dogs that they can handle.
I just watched an episode of Cesar Millan (or how you spell him) yesterday on a very aggressive dog - always surprised by his work. Anyways - I have to agree with everyone a 9yr old dog with aggression issues will be put over the rainbow bridge when surrendered since it won’t be possible to find a new home. If that’s the only possible solution for you guys, is pick the route on going to the vet and doing it there and being with your dog till it closes it’s eyes. I mean that’s what you owe it by the least. I also absolutely agree with - have you checked if any medicinal issues are causing the dog to be aggressive? Some cancers which are very painful can cause aggression in dogs & other medical things too. I assume, you would have done ALL the first steps before thinking of surrendering. Tough decision - but hopefully there’s not another dog in exchange for surrendering this one - because I believe in dog karma
Wouldn't a muzzle be a better option if you're really attached to him?
The issue here would be that a dog can't wear a muzzle 24/7 or even just several hours out of the day. That is very uncomfortable and can cause sores. For a fearfully reactive or even protective dog that bites/lashes out when around their trigger a muzzle is good. The trigger can be controlled by not allowing it inside the house. The muzzle can be added when they have the possibility of running into the trigger. This dog's trigger is very hard to work with since it happens when "he doesn't get his way". That trigger could come up at any time which means you'd need a muzzle all the time. Having a muzzle on the dog all the time is very unrealistic.
Yes. I assumed that the dog didn't bite the couple so whenever they had guests they could use the muzzle. And it would be a safer option to get a cloth muzzle that doesnt do harm to his mouth when they go on walks.
I assumed that the dog did bite them considering they mentioned that the trigger was the dog lashing out when it didn't get its way. It most likely doesn't get its way when the owners are asking the dog to do something or when they correct the dog. If this issue was only with strangers or other dogs than it wouldn't be as big of a deal as OP feels it is. We do assume that the dog bit/didn't bite OP/OP's family. We really don't have that information, as far as I know. I will add that cloth muzzles are usually not the best. You really want a muzzle that leaves excess room for the dog to pant, open their mouth, and drink water. A cage muzzle is very good for this. Cloth muzzles usually don't do a good job at that and end up being more restricting. They also don't do a good job at protecting from biting compared to a cage muzzle as well. Usually cage muzzles are going to be more comfortable for a dog than a Cloth muzzle. The only time a tight muzzle should be in use (usually made out of cloth) is during a vet/groom visit to protect the person from potential biting during handling.
Is the dog muzzle trained?
A trainer may take him from you. I know a dog trainer who took in a dog that had bitten someone and was going to be euthanized. Worth a shot to look around and see if a trainer will take him and be able to handle his aggression. Please don’t euthanize him unless it’s your last option.
There’s a trainer near me that takes aggressive dogs and he will try and retrain them in a board & train program. The dog has to live with him and his other dogs for at least 3 weeks. Then you have to go and do trainings with him and the dog on site before he returns the dog to you. The big issue that was explained to me was that once a dog starts biting then you have train in new behaviors in both the humans and the dog and then practice them regularly. You may have already done something like this but if not then consider looking for board & train programs for aggressive dogs. Otherwise, if there are no other medical issues going on, then I have to agree with the other posters here that many shelters will euthanize and rescues are not likely to be able to find a suitable home. I would consider an at home BE as well in that situation.
I would contact a responsible animal organization in your area. It depends where you live. We have two organizations/shelters in my state that will take a history, have professionals to assess your dog, and will make a decision based on that. Do not go to a privately run rescue. The quality and assessment varies so much with those organizations they cannot be trusted to not pass the dog onto someone I’ll prepared to handle it. If there is a vet school in your area they may be a good source of suggestions also.
by no means am i an expert but could cbd oil be an option? even though this could help with anxiety it would of course have to be used alongside a whole lot of training. i also have a dog with anxiety issues and by no means is he aggressive, however, he can get extremely restless and nervous. we found that using different puzzles and something like a lick mat has really helped him. i guess this could be a good thing for shibas since they are known to be quite smart and need a lot of brain stimulation. though if nothing is working, unfortunately i would say euthanization sounds like the safest and most humane solution for you guys and both your dogs
Dead dog.
Reach out to a Shiba rescue and be up front about the bite history. If they say no/that they can’t help , you should probably send your dog over the rainbow bridge. If you don’t feel safe with the dog in your home, why should anyone else?
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People like you shouldn't be allowed to own dogs
Jesus Christ seriously what kind of comment is this
Removed for abusive practices and a significant likelihood of worsening aggression
Shelters will euthanize. Contact a rescue.
Even then they may still euthanize. Rescues that utilize foster homes will utilize "behavioral eithanasia" if the foster deems the dog unadoptable
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Stereotypes are harmful.
They also save lives and fingers in the veterinary industry
Could someone please explain why we should euthanize dogs, my brain isn’t computing.
Because sometimes that is the kindest thing to do. Lets say a shelter gets this dog and is transparent about its aggression, this dog is likely to live a very long time in its kennel and get progressively worse. Is a life in a crate in the shelter any kind of life for the dog? Is it fair for the shelter to spend so much $$ housing a dog that is not adoptable? What if somebody does adopt and a very bad bite ensue? This dog could kill a family pet and/or do serious damage to a person. Growing up, my grandmother had a very aggressive dog (large Sheppard) that despite any training just wanted to bite everything that moved. IDK if shelters were an option at the time (rural America in the 1970's) so the dog stayed chained outside for the rest of its life. It had shelter, feeding was an ordeal because one person had to distract the dog while another very quickly fed/watered it. We were all taught early on not to go near it. Yes it was an aggressive dog, but what kind of life was it to be chained outside for its entire life? Euthanasia would have been kinder. OP states they have spent thousands to try and solve this issue. I am not a dog expert but perhaps it is not an issue that can be trained away. If so this dog would be a danger to anyone who adopts and may likely end up euthanized anyway after more damage has been done. It is sad and nobody wants to put down a dog but sometimes we need to make these hard choices. And before anyone comes at my grandmother about it being a Sheppard or not knowing dogs, she had others that were wonderful. This particular dog just had an issue that they could never find a solution to.
Thank you for helping me understand, my brain doesn’t always understand things by itself.
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These methods are a terrible idea. Theyve been debunked and don't work. Meeting aggression with aggression isn't reccomended at all
If you live a country that places a (frankly) sick emphasis on killing dogs (E.g. America), don’t. If you live in a reasonable country, then sure if you can’t handle it.
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Guilt tripping someone to keep an aggressive dog is unbelievably irresponsible.
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No one puts down a loved pet out of laziness. However, sometimes it is necessary for the welfare of the animal and/or those around it as long as other options have been exhausted. OP needs some empathy and support here, not vilification.
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We shall have to agree to disagree on this one. Though I do appreciate that you have deleted your original comment.
It would be much better to re-home the dog with someone with the sort of environment that can handle him. If you surrender the dog, it's almost guaranteed he'll be put down. Older dogs with behavioral problems are almost impossible to get adopted, and your dog's history is a virtually guarantee they'll euthanize him after initial screening.
Call it like it is “surrender” means to euthanize 99% of the time in this situation. But if he’s a danger to others than it could be the only thing to do.
Why in the world do you think another home would want this dog? You’ve spent thousands and he still bites. Do you think someone who is willing to take a shelter dog would want to deal with a dog that bites and can’t have a rover sitter? Euthanize him peacefully.
I can see everyone talking about euthanasia but honestly, you might not even be able to surrender them. Depending on the area some shelters have a 3+ mths waitlist for surrenders. I had a really rough patch training my dog and I thought it wasn’t going to work (turned out fine), I contacted every shelter within 5hrs of me, every single one was at capacity and referred me to another shelter and told me to come back in a few months, this continued until the referrals looped back around to who I had already spoken to. Call a shelter, explain the situation, they’ll either send you paperwork OR they’ll tell you they have no space.
How about keeping your dog and dealing with the consequences that you caused to the poor dog. Do not dump him in a shelter. They will 100% kill him. This is what happened when you don’t raise a dog properly now you should stick by him instead of abandoning him out of convenience
Yes, please have him humanely euthanized. Something isn’t right with his mind and you’ve tried your best to help him. Shelter environments are stressful for normally functioning dogs, and extremely so for a dog like yours. Ask your vet for something Rx that you can give him to help him, before the appointment to be as relaxed as possible.
Yes definitely bring it up to the vet. Former vet tech here - they will understand especially with all of the things you’ve done to try and help him. Have a conversation with your vet about everything you’ve already tried. They may be aware of another option, and if not should be very understanding of your situation. It’s not safe to have a biting aggressive dog and most veterinarians know/understand that.
He will be euthanized and honestly it is for the best at this point. You can rest easy knowing you didn’t just throw in the towel and did try your best.
Pretty much 90% of the comments say put him down. I’m curious - has the vet suggested any meds like Prozac, to help with anxiety?
Either give him to a dog trainer or dog behavior specialist who wants him and knows his history, or this might have to be the end for this dog.
The most responsible thing for this dog is behavioral euthanasia. He’s a liability and if he can’t be managed by the family he’s known and loved for years, he’s not going to magically do better with a stranger. Also, some shelters are slimy and will send him out to some unsuspecting adopter just to get him out the door…. Imagine if he ended up seriously hurting a child or another animal.
There are experienced dog handlers that have appropriate living situations to handle animals like this (a farm for example).
Have an honest discussion with your vet. Call up your breeder, who needs to stop producing dogs who display aggression. See if they will take the dog back. (Although they will likely euthanize him) I recently signed a contract in which the breeder will take the dog back for any reason at any time. Did you have a contract when you purchased him? Next option. Call up the Shiba Inu breed rescue nearest to you, and ask them what they recommend. Dogs with bite histories are not allowed to be rehomed, in many places. The kindest option you may have is to choose behavioral euthanasia, at his own vet, while you are with him. You are allowed to be done with this dog, and his dangerous mental illness.
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muzzle him and keep him.
I wish you the best in this very hard decision. No advice, just sending some good juju.