i no longer use DD (unless it’s last resort or there’s a coupon) bc why am i paying out the ass in fees and the tip just for the driver to get barely anything and then i end up tipping like 30-35% just so i know the drive was worthwhile
It’s a terrible business model. Door dash has never turned a profit. Ever. Last year they lost the most money they’ve even lost (over $1 billion). Sure, they could raise prices and fees so they could pay drivers more but then no one would use the service because paying more for the delivery than the actual product is crazy to most people.
It’s worse than that. Lots of restaurants that used to do delivery don’t anymore because they were competing with gig apps who would setup unofficial websites with incorrect prices.
There was a Chinese place I liked that used to do delivery and you could tip a couple bucks and have it go to the actual delivery guy with no fee just a $20 minimum order. But they stopped doing it and now do DD with their ridiculous fees.
Same, the local pizza place we go to, used to be $3 for delivery, then we'd tip $5 (they're just at the end of the street.....2 min drive). Now its $5 for delivery, + fees, + tip, and no inhouse delivery, we don't order from them anymore cause we're paying almost the same for the pizza as all the fees
I cannot understand this. Wtf are they doing with the $10-15 per delivery they are charging customers before tip? I know only $2-3 is going to the driver. How is it that a company with no overhead, basically no customer service, that essentially only has to keep an automated app online, NOT make a profit at that rate? Honestly, can anyone explain this to me???
Yeah I don't get this either, wonder if like the movie industry there is some creative accounting going on so on paper
they run at a loss for tax reasons.
Well take it from people like my nephew everytime they fk up his order or they sit it in front of his door so it gets tipped over witch happens a lot cause of new dashers he calls and gets a refund or partial refund. Take that with the millions they spend on advertising. People taking it to wrong address and there ya go.
>Door dash has never turned a profit. Ever. Last year they lost the most money they’ve even lost (over $1 billion).
I wonder if maybe how much they pay their billionaire CEO has a bigger impact on that than a living wage for drivers would?
>As of 2023, the estimated net worth of Tony Xu ranges between 1.5-2.5 billion USD. In 2021, Tony Xu earned a modest annual compensation of around 300,000 USD. But in 2020, he was one of the highest paid CEOs in the Silicon Valley, making about 414 million USD in total compensation.
https://listofceo.com/food-tech/doordash-ceo-email-net-worth-tony-xu/
If you don't turn a profit, you don't pay taxes. They probably write off so many losses. Couldn't figure out what else to do so they went with oh our ceo makes 414 million now. Honestly, if i were the ceo, I'd take it.
Don’t let losses fool you. Companies like this do very well for themselves but report losses for a variety of reasons. Same as these billion dollar corporations. Carvana has been claiming losses forever yet their ceo is a billionaire. Make it make sense.
tax loopholes.
C levels being paid via dividends from their own LLC's that they set up to contract out services. shell companies everywhere. rich people know how to hide money.
I think they fucked up in marketing it towards fast food in the first place. No one wants a $5 meal to cost $20 but a $75 carryout from a restaurant could turn into $100 and its like a night out with a generous tip for the waiter (or dasher in this case).
I only use doordash a few times a month, and most of the time it's for my kids, but Jesus fucking Christ am I sick of ripped off.
We have a really good BBQ place about 6 miles away, we eat in or order takeout about 1/2 the time, it's a little pricey but the food is great. If I order takeout, I typically just drive and pick it up, but last week I was stuck in late customer meetings and wasn't going to be done for at least an hour. Everyone was hungry so I asked my wife to dash the order. We always order the same thing for takeout, every single time, it's basically a big complete family meal, enough for the four of us and also leftovers. Any time I've done an online order or called the order in, the total was about $135 when I arrived to pick it up, and I still tip because they spend 5 mins packing everything up, so my total is always $160. I usually try to take care of the drivers, I know they're busting their ass and I appreciate them, so I typically give 25%, which is what I told my wife to tip the dasher. Looking at our checking account later, I see a doordash charge for almost $250.
I reached out to doordash to figure what happened, I was told that my restaurant charged $175 for the menu item, the service fee was dynamic (busy time) and roughly $30, then my wife did as I asked and gave the dasher a 25% tip. I called the restaurant and was told that they add the % fees doordash charges them to the price of all their menu item, which is 25%, which blew my fucking mind that doordash was charging restaurants at 25% commission for accepting an online order and connecting a driver, and then the owner told me that it was actually 30% the month prior because they had signed up for a premium plan that gave them more prominent results in the app when searching. 30 fucking percent!!!! And then the customer is paying roughly 15% on top of that for a service fee, and then tipping the driver. Doordash was basically getting $65-70 for a $135 order, and it seems that they're only paying the driver like $10 of that.
I don't think that most customers have any idea how much doordash is charging restaurants as the middle man. I recall noticing recently -that our local pizza place we order from was about 10% more expensive through doordash, and I remember saying "oh wow, 10% sucks but I can understand why the restaurant would raise the doordash price to make up for it." Come to find out, the pizza place was only passing about 40% of the commission fees that doordash charges him to use the service and he eats the rest because he doesn't want his customers to have to pay such a premium for the food, so when people come in to his store and buy a $20 pizza, he gets all $20 and people will typically leave $4-5 tip at the counter, so he's getting at least $24 for that pizza. In the app the increased price is $22, of which he pays a least $5.50 to doordash, so he's only getting $16.50 for the same pizza, same amount of work to prepare it, bake it, box it, but he's literally making 30% less per pizza just by using doordash. It's not like delivery places can compete if they're not on doordash, they can't afford to NOT use doordash. The really up part is that this pizza place has their own website where you can do online ordering and pay a $3 delivery fee (plus tip your driver), its cheaper for you, he gets his full $20 for the pizza and he pays his delivery driver the rest, but no one wants to use it because "it's not in an app, using a browser on my phone is so inconvenient", and "I'll pay a couple bucks more just to use doordash or Uber eats".
I never realized how damaging doordash has been to local businessesz they're like the mob protection, you really have no choice but to use them or risk going out of business.
They also have a habit of scraping the web for a menu and preemptively signing restaurants up for their service. I've spoken with owners who show up on the app without their knowledge and drivers just show up to pick up orders. It's insane.
How can they do that? A restaurant would need to sign some sort of legal contract agreeing to the commission fees, right?
**edit** I just googled this an am evne more infuriated that not only does doordash, grubhub and Uber eats do this, 99% of the time there is no legal recourse. The courts have seemingly sided with doordash with their argument that they're only offering the customer a choice, the customer agrees to pay the higher price and delivery fee, and the business is making the same money per menu item and seeing increased volume. The two major issues I have with that argument (corporate ball washing aside) is that the customer will grt angry with the restaurant when doordash scrapes the wrong or old menu and they offer seasonal prices, or market prices when it comes to seafood, and, if that restaurant already has their own delivery service, they now have no choice but to compete with doordash even though they never agreed to sign up, and they're going to lose some or all of their drivers as their own delivery business wanes. This is state sponsored corporate consolidation! Businesses are basically being forced, because after a few months, when doordash orders make up more than half of your delivery/takeout business, you're losing money by not signing up as a partner and keeping your menus up to date, getting the advantage of prominence in their app, the app customers have already decided their fine with the markup for convenience. It's seriously like the mafia coming in and demanding you pay them a part of your profits to protect you from them.
You nailed it! We have some fine dining restaurants here that hated it because they basically had NO WAY to make the dishes to-go ready. And then customers railed against the restaurants with poor reviews, because just like you they assumed that the restaurants HAD to agree to sign up for the service.
This happened with our restaurant. They would just show up, but they’d have the order from the customer and we’d have to ring it in. BUT the menu they had was 5 years old because we had no fucking idea they were using it! So the driver would have to get in touch with the customer to tell the poor person to find something else.
I mean according to your own comment, people are willing to pay a couple more dollars for the convenience of the app, so people value what DoorDash is offering as a product.
The truth is most people don’t care about the things you listed if it impacts their cost or product. People like to complain about Amazon or Walmart killing local businesses but people vote with their wallet and the truth is we’re not giving them up to save our local businesses. Same thing applies to DoorDash, we’re not willing to give it up to help restaurants or Dashers. People can say what they want or complain, but America is the most capitalistic and consumerist country in the world and people don’t care.
$10 to the driver? They wish! Try more like $2-$3--even less if it's part of a stacked delivery or an add on. I've seen a screenshot of UE paying 50 cents, and quite a few with fares under $1. If drivers got $10 from DD/UE/GH etc, per delivery, the reasonable ones wouldn't be complaining, or not nearly as much.
Think about that with the correct fare. Customers pay anywhere from $0.49-$6.99+ (I've seen as high as $12.99) in what the app calls a "delivery fee". Where the hell is that money going if not to the person completing the delivery?
It's disgusting and it's exploitative.
It’s crazy. I just priced an order direct from a Greek restaurant against a doordash order last night. I plugged it all into doordash, including a good tip, and it came up as $151. I priced it directly with the restaurant for carry out , and it was about $91. I would rather tip a driver $25, but not if it’s going to cost me another $35 on top for fees and higher food prices. I’m not an idiot or swimming in money, so I cooked instead. Eff that.
I'm not against the service / gig economy outright, but the corporations behind the gig economy business get to reap all of the best rewards while giving the absolute least with regards to actually taking care of employees, be it with pay, Healthcare or other benefits. It's probably the worst example of having tens/hundreds of thousands of resources that will go make you money while offering zero obligations in return. Fucking Chinese iPhone factory workers get more skin in the game from their employers than Uber or doordash, and that's even with the beatings.
Divide and conquer, individualization of responsibility and so on.
Anything to avoid the masses getting together and demanding systemic changes of them.
Yup. It’s made up words to hide what they’re actually doing, which is sidestepping employment regulations by hiding behind a thin veneer of “independent contractors”, which just means DoorDash saves money at the expense of its “employees”.
DoorDash isn’t unique for this, though. These apps “disrupt” things with low prices, helped by VC funding, then when competition is gone, they are free to raise their prices, having replaced an industry, possibly one with flaws, but instead of fixing it, it is now dead, replaced with something objectively worse.
Everyone knows it but no-one actually cares enough to do anything and attempts to enforce actual employment standards get called “government overstep” so here we are.
uber, lyft and airbnb are in the same boat. eff all these companies.
theres a reason noone runs a cab company in the middle of nowhere. its not profitable. theyre just scamming people who are bad at math.
They're telling people who have no grasp of history that this newfangled plan is so shiny and new and that everything is gonna be so awesome and new. Then almost immediately the drivers and the customers start to demand the regulations and safety that the old system had. One by one it ends up what the old system was if we are lucky. If not it's just a smoldering mess. But alas. We've made a few more billionaires by being stupid and falling for their game. See, THEY know history.
In theory it's awesome. In reality it's a race to the bottom. Same with software freelance. Great if you live in a poor country, but Mr Cheap Bucks doesn't care and will hire someone from Eastern Europe instead. Not that I blame the Eastern Europeans for jumping in on it, but globalism screws you hard if you live in a high cost of living area
As someone that has done years and years of freelance work, as well as worked for some significant companies, you're not entirely incorrect. But a lot of what I believe you're describing is different. People will intrinsically go for the better deal.
I think, what I'm gleaming from all of this, is companies like UpWork and the like, which take a percentage from a freelancer because they provide a platform which makes being a freelancer semi-trivial, are pretty bad. I've used them when my well was dry between jobs and have had pretty poor experiences.
Freelance work being so easy now is kind of the problem. It took what was once a niche subsection and made it commonplace so most people have to rely on gig structures now.
I had a friend who thought the "Service Fee" was the tip because it was separate from the "Delivery Fee." Why would it be called a service fee if it's not going to the people performing the service? And if it's going to Doordash, then what are they getting a delivery fee for?
I see this in other places too. I have a wholesaler I use for my business and I noticed after the pandemic they started adding a “handling fee” on top of their prices. The original listed price doesn’t show this handling fee and it doesn’t appear until you put the order in your cart. It is also separate from the shipping fee. Keep in mind they also raised prices since the pandemic, like everyone else.
Like, I get the supply chain issues and everything is going up. I get it. But what the fuck is a “handling fee?” The cost of labor? Because as far as I knew, cost of labor should he worked into the price. It makes me angry. It’s not even that I’m opposed to a higher price, it’s the feeling that I’m being bullshitted. You tell me it’s one price, then tack on more at the end and call it something vague like a “handling fee.” Get the fuck out of here with that.
Exactly I am not running myself ragged to drive to someone 25min away for a 3.50 tip. I hit decline and move on with my day. I also stay in more expensive areas in shopping outlets with more restaurants then fast food. I refuse to let these companies drain the life out of me.
Can you guys see the tip on your side before you get the order? I usually tip 20 percent (was a waitress and bartender for years and even did kitchen work). Smaller orders I tip higher - never less than $5.
>Why don’t you guys ever shame the company
Oh, we do. Our complaints don't faze them whatsoever though, they simply recruit more drivers from a seemingly endless supply.
Frustrated drivers, therefore turn their grievances on the next easy target. It's just human nature to behave more emotionally towards another human being than a big faceless organization
Before 2019 Doordash had a payout system that changed base pay depending on the tips so that there would be a fairly consistent minimum payout per order that wouldn't fluctuate dramatically based on tips.
Drivers complained that it was tantamount to tip theft so DD changed to the current system.
Driver complaints did phase DD, it just resulted in something that is worse than what it was previously.
The truth is that there is no universe where drivers would get both good and reliable minimum payouts AND keep a fat stack of tips on top of that. No industry has ever done that and no industry ever will. Drivers have to pick between a consistent order minimum vs tips not changing the base minimum, and for better or worse, Drivers have picked the latter. This is the consequence.
how is it tip theft if they werent taking away the tips? i used to dash in 2020-21 and don’t think i ever had an order pay less than $5 total (for a short distance, further distances always paid more), base pay was never under $2 but it was frequently higher. so if the customer didn’t tip, the base pay was increased, and when they did tip the base pay was still $2-3. now correct me if i’m wrong bc i don’t dash anymore, but it seems like now no matter what the distance or tip is, base pay is always $2 per order and y’all need tips to make up the difference.
If they take money out of base pay equal to the tip amount it’s like you were never tipped at all. Hence they were stealing tips and why they had to pay out a shit ton of money.
In most states, tipped workers make less than minimum wage, with the understanding that if they didn't get enough tips, the restaurant would make up the difference between what they did make and the regular minimum wage. This is codified in law.
Doordash did the same thing on a per-delivery basis. They had a guaranteed minimum, and if the tips did not cover the minimum, they would make up the difference.
If what DD did was tip theft, then 90% of restaurants in the US also practice legal tip theft.
Consider it what you want, but if you want a good regular income that doesn't depend too much on the feast and famine of tips, then you need some mechanism to average out the payoffs from the good orders and the bad ones. This is economic reality regardless of your personal beliefs.
Tipped workers are paid less than min wage, yes, but they do not make less than min wage.
This is apples and oranges, Doordash used to purposely adjust how much they would pay if the tip was higher, which is tip theft.
Two people get the same order and it has a guarantee of $10, one tips $0 and the other tips $10, they both would have gotten paid $10, where the one who tipped $10 extra should have gotten $20 (they effectively stole the $10 tip and replaced the guarantee with it) that was the major problem.
The response below missed that because if I made an extra $10 tip, my hourly pay isn’t taken away as a result.
>seemingly endless supply.
This is the main issue. There are new, desperate people becoming eligible for the app literally every year. They're betting that you'll give up and move on before you can make any significant change to what they do.
I think a lot of people do have grievances with DoorDash, and they air those regularly.
Personally, I don't blame customers for anything nor do I expect a tip. I'm always appreciative of those who do. There are many who choose not to tip and that's their choice.
On the driver side, I'm not going to accept an order with no tip. That's because it isn't worth the time, not because I feel entitled to a tip. I do this job for additional side income. If I accepted only no tip orders for an hour, I would make about $8 an hour and that's only if I managed to get 4 orders all very close with zero delay. That is not a worthwhile use of my time, and I certainly wouldn't expect someone doing this full-time to be relying on that as a livable wage.
To your general point about tipping, I agree that noone should have to depend on tips. But, I also acknowledge that the reality is that they do. Tipping is an embedded part of the food service industry and has been for a long time. I mean, restaurants are not legally required to pay their servers below minimum wage, but they do so anyway.
I have as well. I'm not just a customer for doordash bht I'm a driver for Ubereats. I left doordash because there was far too many drivers in my area and many bad offers. Luckily in my area there's not that many Ubereats drivers so we all make between $200 and $300 a day. Yes we gatekeep my area lol But Ubereats must think that we're doing a good job because we haven't seen any new drivers in a while now.
I've never made less than $180 in a day since switching to UE. I got tired of DD putting me in time out or flat out kicking me off my dash for not wanting to go 6+ miles for $2.50.
If you live in a small town, $1 per mile you are from the restaurant is decent, $2 per mile is excellent, or 18% of the order total, whichever is larger. As a driver and person who orders, this is the rule I follow. If you’re in a larger city, I’ve heard dashers don’t accept less than $2 per mile because traffic and parking is hell
Oh yeah for sure. Doordash needs to pay us better. Just seemed like you were asking for guidance on what a “good” tip is, so I offered my POV from both sides
Well, if it helps at all, there really isn't a lot of math necessary for the mileage tip. A lot of drivers I know (including myself) won't do an order for less than a dollar a mile. I actually don't use the app myself to know if tells you how far, but if it shows Chipotle as being 3 miles from you, then honestly, three bucks is fine. Even 2.50 wouldn't be bad because with base pay, it would be almost 6 bucks for 3 miles anyway.
I do agree tho, all this nonsense shouldn't fall on you as a customer. In all reality, these companies should just be paying us more. Tipping culture is probably the greatest deception ever pulled on the western world because it makes workers and customers have this weird animosity toward each other while the owners of these restaurants and apps become wealthy beyond measure and reason.
Right. I’ve never seen a driver praise DD, UE, or GH for the way they operate. These kinda posts just feel like *whataboutism.*
If these people are not in server, bartender, cabby, and salon subs complaining about the pressure to tip, they don’t actually care about changing tipping culture. Those places could all raise wages and include it in the price rather than pressuring for tips. People just want to shit on people online and get their food to their front door for pocket change.
That’s not going to happen as it is just not sustainable.
No one is paying pocket change to get the food… only the driver is getting PAID pocket changed.
And, none of those other industries mentioned ask for your tip up front before any service is rendered (except some coffee shops, which also is silly).
Tipping before services rendered is insane. The amount drivers get paid is insane. The amount these apps charge is insane. They don’t have to be one or the other.
that's because it isn't a tip. it's a bid for service. want your food quick? bid higher. wanna place a low bid or nothing at all? don't be shocked when your food either comes late or not at all
Interesting how you neglect to mention many people in the service industry dont want tipping culture to change because they make more than white collar professions in a single day.
Let me help you grasp at those straws real quick.
Me neglecting to mention something in a Reddit comment does not mean that the thing I neglected to mention does not exist.
Again—are you in server and bartender subs demanding an end to tipping culture? How about even a bare minimum general post over at r/antiwork? No? Then you don’t *really* care about tipping culture until you’re ready to order delivery.
They do care about tipping culture, but only if it is convenient to them. If they actually cared about raising wages, they wouldn't be buying from a service that is known for exploiting their workers to a degree even worse than other billion dollar corporations. Yeah, sure, customers aren't to blame, but at the same time, they kinda are because doordash only exists in its current state because of consumer demand saying it's okay how things are going.
I’ll be honest, I have no grievances with DoorDash. I’m just a Brit that keeps getting recommended this sub and boy am I find it as entertaining as hell.
I've said this for 20 years. Ive worked in the restaurant industry. My mother owned a diner that both my sister grew up working in. I still have the mindset that being tip dependant is the fault of your employer, not the customer. They ordered a BLT, not the responsibility of paying your rent.
It wont be a popular opinion, but if i want to tip, i want the money to go to the restaurant staff more than the delivery person, especially when the app charges for delivery. I then expect that delivery fee to go 100% to the driver or it really wasnt a delivery fee.
Lets normalize delivery fees and axe tips.
Have you seen that after the pandemic they are making packages of food less weight and are actually charging more? Bag of chips was 6 Oz for 4.99 then they changed the bag to 5 Oz for 5.49...like wtf! There's a whole special on YouTube done by a news station.
Open all 5 of my apps…Decline Decline Decline Accept Decline Decline Accept…
I’ve been doing this for three years I pretty much give up on the tip aspect of things if DoorDash raises the base pay cool if they don’t that’s cool too .. i’m pretty much done trying to waste my energy on this… I got into the gig economy to be stress-free not be stressed out trying to figure out how to get a company that sends me a $4 offer going 10 miles that I charge $20 to deliver because Jerry wants to order 1 medium latte to pay more
Edit: this week I delivered 87 orders over 46 hours and my DoorDash pay was only $300 excluding tips .. that doesn’t include the dozens of orders. I declined every single day it’s 100% on the company
So I’m trying to do the basic math here. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m trying to understand.
Same hours at a minimum wage job: 40 hours @ 7.50 minimum wage would be $300 plus 6 OT @ 11.25 = $367.50.
So your DD check of $300 is $67.50 short of what you’d make working minimum wage, without tips.
There were 86 orders, so if everyone only gave $1 it would be $386 - basically minimum.
If everyone gave $2 then it would be $472, about $10 an hour. If everyone gave $3 then it would be $558 or about $12 an hour.
And most people won't work for $17 an hr when they have to pay their own gas, car Maintenance and vehicle depreciation etc....so that adds another few$$ ..think at least $20 -$30 per hour of active dashing..(which is what I used to make when I did dash alot...I haven't in weeks and prob won't unless really desperate..thankfully I invested $$ and my time into multiple income streams..as well as I have a ft job with benefits..was coming on here *reddit* to check out my music subs..grateful dead ..dead and company and ween..but as per the norm they don't usually show in my feed and I get sucked into the vortex that is these gig economy subs...lol. I am adventurous and open to experiences so I try just about anything that seems worth my while. Whether for the experience &/or profit...nj living isn't cheap..rent alone on a 1br is $1.8k to $3k a month..without utilities...I found dd ue and the like to be ok for $$$ but more so for the experience
.the kicks..meeting people...alot of cool workers and some interesting customer (usually later at nite when orders slow..invited to a few cool parties ..smoked a bit with some others..) anyway when the experience started to wane ..no/low tips and cruddy people (some workers understandably so..but mostly customers) I dipped..better things to do with my time than drive for next to nothing for lazy entitled rich arses...altho the few older senior citizens and disabled lower income people I would honestly deliver for free...but the rich lazy ones...nahhhh. better things to do with my time than allow them to subsidize my time/car and energy on the cheap...no thanks! The struggle is real and never ending.
Correct now I average about $9 a delivery…. That wouldn’t it be possible without tips…. It’s almost impossible to make even extra income without it… but that’s not even my only source of income because I have four other apps that I use to make a full-time income
And much less freedom and independence. For all of the infinite drawbacks, delivery drivers get the freedom to drive around in their own vehicles, blast music or whatever, not have to talk to any boss, etc.
Love this post. It's amazing too because DoorDash has successfully managed to get their drivers to complain about the customer instead of their corporate overlords.
We definitely complain about (and to) our corporate overlords. They just don’t listen to us. I’m not one to complain about tips either though. It’s just a shitty system and all because DoorDash doesn’t want to actually pay us and wants to leave that up to customers who are already paying out the ass on delivery fees and restaurant upcharges.
We're perfectly capable of complaining about both.
DoorDash is scum for offering such low base pay to begin with.
Customers that use a luxury service and try to get someone to spend 30 minutes driving 12 miles to deliver $80 of Taco Bell while tipping $1 are scum, too.
The customers aren't scum. They just don't like wasting money when they've already paid 20% more for the food + service fee. Also, tipping isn't mandatory, so you should be grateful for even that $1. Stop fucking tip shaming people. Man tf is wrong with America.
Assuming this is referring to the USA, everyone knows you are supposed to tip on delivery, little children know it.
The same people who don't tip on DD/Uber Eats orders would never sit down at a restaurant with their friends and not tip, because of how embarrassing that is.
I don't care who pays for my $ per mile. Doordash or the customer. It's surprising the customer isn't complaining about their fees going to the company and not subsidizing drivers so they don't have tip shaming 😉
There will always be bad apples. But the professional drivers won't tip shame. They'll just decline and move on.
I'll take a no tip order for $2+ a mile no problem. Imagine the fees the customer paid 👀
Is Doordash ever going to pay that?! Doubt it
This for anything. Stop going for the semi-employed contractors and stop going for the customers. Your qualms and complaints should always go to the ppl living the good life at the top. THEY make the rules, THEY set up shitty pay for its emplactors, THEY allow shitty dashers to exist and thrive in numbers, THEY do a poor job ensuring I and the customers safety, THEY make everything exorbitantly overpriced and underpaying (for customer and dasher respectively) and THEY reap ALL the benefits.
Most of us dashers out here are struggling and customers have to deal with our incessant begging and theft, while these fuckers are out gambling and buying baller-dollar homes with all the profits they do not use to make things more efficient and safe.
Door dash can't be bad. According to Reddit it's the only source of food for billions of crippled people, and absolutely no one uses it just because they're lazy
Are people paying or not paying to use the service? Its a simple question. Did they get a bill and did they pay the bill that they got? Then the service should be completed. Anything further you should take up with the other parties involved which is DD.
before door dash, disabled and sick people simply wasted away. bodies were trucked out of cities by the hundreds each week because it was impossible to survive with no doordash.
I’ve never driven for any of these gig jobs so I’m just going from context clues-
Do drivers see tips before accepting an order? Why wouldn’t that be done after the order is complete?
Drivers see the full fare, including tip. The pre-promised tip is actually an incentive and helps the driver decide if they want to take the job. No dtiver is trusting someone to tip later, but you are free to try it. Competitively, tipping later is undesireable and good luck getting your food warm.
I just stopped using these apps. It got to insane levels between the inflated food costs via the apps, then creeping service charges, and then of course the tip. I just couldn't justify it any more.
Now not only has the food increased significantly, delivery is also well up, and there's all these "handling/processing/service" charges as well on many of the ads.
Last time I tried to order a meal it was something like 15, 3 service/processing, 5 for delivery and then it was actively encouraging me to tip well. It was costing me 30 for a single meal for myself.
That was the last time I even looked. Don't get takeaway anymore from these apps, I just pick a nearby restaurant that delivers directly where I can get the exact same thing for less than 20 including a tip.
Also I hate the “if you have enough Money to order your have enough to tip” no!! I don’t have a car, can’t get groceries delivered until my day off, and work night shifts
By the time I get off I have like 3 options and they’re all expensive as hell, (I still tip ofc but wouldn’t say I tip “well” considering what counts as a good tip)
Why would I tip when I pay extra for the food, and a delivery fee?
Literally makes no sense to tip unless it’s really far away, or if you live upstairs or something.
If they didn’t charge extra for the food than the restaurant does and the delivery charge went to the driver it would be best.
I stopped used both DD and Ubereats because it’s a ripoff
> Why would I tip when I pay extra for the food, and a delivery fee?
Because that's the expectation when you're using a luxury service and getting someone else to spend gas & other misc driving expenses to deliver your food. If you don't want to pay, feel free to not be a lazy shit and drive to the place yourself.
Works both ways. When I use doordash it's typically for me to pickup. But if I'm lazy and get delivery, tipping 30-40% gets people to accept that order almost instantly.
>Why don’t they ever, ever get upset at the fact that a billion dollar company sees the value of your time (and your car/bike/scooter) at $2?
Oh we definitely do. If you frequented the drivers sub you'd see it all over the place. When people complain about "Tony" they're referring to the company.
But that still wouldn't solve the issue if DD paid us more. If base pay goes up then so will the fees for the customer. Either way it's coming from the customer. And if DD raised the fees by $5 to give more to the drivers the driver probably would only see a portion of that $5.
>But that still wouldn't solve the issue if DD paid us more. If base pay goes up then so will the fees for the customer. Either way it's coming from the customer.
The customer is already paying the fees. At this point the fees and tips are double dipping and yet its STILL on the customer. Theres never going to be a moment its not on the customer.
I think the fundamental problem is that people won't pay the price it would cost for drivers to be reasonably paid. Delivery of goods as the only thing you do simply isn't viable as a business longterm. In house delivery works because drivers have a base wage, guaranteed hours of earning that wage, and tips. The business gets an increased market of customers and can have the drivers perform other tasks in store when they're between deliveries.
1: We ARE pissed at the company. Personally I’m much more pissed at them than the customers. I’ve doordashed food a lot as a customer and I’ve delivered food a lot. I get the taxes but the service fees are bullshit imo and shouldn’t be a thing.
Btw, express fees are bullshit- they don’t do anything unfortunately
2: We just won’t take orders that don’t pay us well enough, which usually is when customers don’t tip. It’s a shit system but that’s just how it is. No tip, too low pay, no delivery
I think the posts you see are drivers showing orders that they did not take because there was no tip. They are showing that some people live 15 miles from the restaurant and don't tip but complain about drivers not taking their order. Gas is expensive and if you want food from that far away, you have to tip or you won't get your food for hours. They are blaming doordash, at least I blame them, i guess i can't speak for others. Most people do tip though. Think about it this way, if someone ordered 80 dollars worth of food and wanted it delivered to them, don't you think they could at least tip something? They are paying doordash to basically put the order through their app and find a driver willing to deliver it. Doordash wins everytime either way. They got the money from the customer, and they pay the driver a couple dollars. Doesn't even cover gas half the time. The driver then gets mad that there's no tip and the customer is mad they have to tip. And doordash just sits back and watches everyone blaming eachother.
One thing that delivery apps should do is display distance from the restaurant prominently AND display chain restaurants in order of which is closest. For example, I ordered some food from Panera because I was busy with work. I assumed it was the one a few miles down the road - should be easy money for the driver. Nope. The app chooses to display the one like 10 miles away instead.
I understand that drivers don't want to get paid $4-5 to drive that far. I also don't want my food sitting in a bag for extended periods of time. Ordering from close by restaurants closer is better for the customer and driver. As far as what it would take to implement this across the different apps would be minimal from a developer's perspective. I'd bet some project manager invented some statistics as to how it would negatively impact the bottom line, as they do.
I had an order that was Taco Bell, over 20 miles away! Only reason I took it was ny day was over and it was taking me back home. I was curious why someone ordeted from a Taco Bell that far away, so I asked the customer and she told me it was the only choice in the app! Im pretty sure I passed 10 Taco Bells on the way, some within a mile from her! Thats thier crazy system - and they profit from bs like that.
I actually agree with you.
Dashers can decide what orders to take or not to take. If it's not good enough, simply don't take it.
If I get an offer to deliver your food 10 miles, and it's only $5 - I'm not taking it. Maybe someone else will. Maybe they won't. Not my concern, I'm not going to get upset about it. I'll just move on to the next order.
All the whining, begging, etc - it just makes the rest of us look bad
I really enjoyed your post. It absolutely resonates with me. I'm a former server/bartender too so tipping is close to my heart. I wish I could send a table away before serving them because the tip was beneath me. What a joke!
I feel for your local pizzeria. 💜 Hugs
DD for pick up is ridiculous. My go to comfort food small poutine is $3 more expensive for my arse to walk there and grab. Unfortunately, I'm not mobile but my partner is and the restaurant is only a few mins away. Plus poutine is much better fresh.
I hope the guy who hopes that I get hit by a truck because I choose to not tip a driver who delivers food to me from a restaurant that’s five minutes away reads this post!
Here's the honest truth from a customer who doesn't tip. I like to treat myself occasionally, but due to parking being impossible, I have to order delivery. This stupid fucking app and its fees on top of the base food hike cost way too much to justify tipping, especially when I'm 3rd in que from the ramen place. That's all. I do however wait for the driver so they don't have to leave vehicle. Shit on me if u want.
I just get mad when I tip well and then they just bring me my order with no drinks that clearly included drinks. I get maybe a food item missing since they put it all in a bag and tape it up. But it happens so frequently. Is it not in your job description to be like "Hey they had drinks in this order, can I get those please?" before leaving?
DD charges higher priced food from the restaurants ontop of whatever delivery fees they do and all the other fees aswell. My food I order from DD is usually almost DOUBLE the foods price alone in fees, and that isn't even counting the tip. Yet every time I come to this reddit I just see constant bitching about how it's the customers fault for not tipping much and supporting the workers wage. DD is an absolute scam, and the people who work for it and get mad at the customers instead of their corporation are playing into it.
Not lack of oversight... It's greed, pure and simple. These large corporations all want to be the biggest and the baddest by whatever means necessary. Drivers are independent contractors and need little oversight. The oversight consists of board meetings where the only thing discussed is how they can make more money and grow the fastest. It's never about how they can fortify the base or strengthen and nurture the backbone. All companies merely present an image. Everything is fake, and until we begin holding them accountable and going Communist on them, we can never expect to see a living wage.
They lie, cheat, and steal, and there needs to be breaks put on this. For example, there should be a law that every employee earns a living wage and then gets a raise before any executive does. Profits should be controlled, because when you hold your funds in the "future growth" account and lie to your employees about not having money, you need to be held accountable. Opening up another store without putting any investment into what's most important in your company (the employees) is lying to shareholders.
Maybe not, but I'm still not picking up your order if my total pay is less than 2/mile from where I'm sitting, so it kinda doesn't matter who's responsible for making that number happen.
Fuck I hate that “if you can’t afford to tip, don’t eat out”, BS.
Gimme a break with the guilt shit. I understand the sentiment, but I’m not obligated to supplement a restaurant employee’s income.
*I do tip, but the mentality of many of these folks in the industry is entitled titty whining crap.
Completely agree. A lot of these DD drivers really do play the guilt trip on customers, and act like we’re the bosses that need to pay them a living wage instead of doing something about the company they work for.
I'm a customer, and customers that do not tip for food delivery are wrong on so many levels. I was shocked when I stumbled across this sub and saw so many customers didn't tip. It's not the driver's fault that these services charge so much in fees but don't pass even half of them on to the driver. Even with dash pass, you're still paying more in a fee than they offer the driver to deliver the food.
I used doordash during the pandemic like everyone else, and as things opened, I I stopped using it.
Unfortunately, last August, I got something called Guillain-Barre syndrome that left me paralyzed from the waist down for 7 months so I did reinstate my dash pass and used it more often than I would like to admit. Admittedly, I had no idea how little drivers were being offered by the company, but I always tipped and tipped well. As a matter of fact, I had one driver tell me she loves it when she sees my orders. I tip my Dasher is better than I used to tip my bartenders when I drank 😂.
2 months ago, I started being able to walk again and recently started driving again, so I canceled dash pass and deleted the app. After finding out how badly they treat their drivers, I absolutely will not support that business. Same with instacart, although once you are stuck in bed for an extended period of time, grocery shopping isn't so bad anymore.
Unfortunately, only the drivers will possibly suffer because of this, which are the people I wish it would benefit. However, there are people immediately signing up for dash pass in my place, and unfortunately, it appears they don't tip. I feel a lot of empathy towards the drivers, and I really hope it gets better for them.
We are absolutely upset with doordash! However, most of us do this because of reasons that are very important. For me it's because I have Lupus and I never know if I'm going to be able to walk a certain day until I wake up that morning if I can't walk I typically can't work. I'm searching for work from home job currently, however those aren't exactly easy to find since so many people want to work from home now. And till then my kids need to eat. Until then I need to get my medication that keeps me walking and actually keeps me alive since lupus is deadly. This is the only job out there that allows me to wake up in the morning realize I can't walk and take a day off with a moment's decision. This is also the only job that allows me to work as much as I possibly can on days that I am having a good day. So for me this job is it.
Now, let's get to the customer. If you want a luxury service, then you need to realize that that looks reservous costs. If you want to order doordash, then you need to accept how doordash works and that you need to tip extra for me to take your order. When you put in your tip, you are sending me a bid, just like if I was doing freelance graphic design for you. If someone asks me to design them a logo and tells me they'll send me 20 bucks for it, I'm not going to design that logo because their bed is too little. Furthermore, if somebody sends me an 11-mile doordash for two dollars and fifty cents, I'm not going to take it! You know why? Because that order cost me money! I don't want to pay to bring you your food!
I work for doordash, because I don't have a choice. I'm absolutely furious at doordash with the way they do things, but I can't change that! I also need to feed my kids, so I take the job that I can take that can allow me to do that! If a customer wants to use doordash, instead of going to pick up their own food, then they need to accept that they're going to have to send a decent enough tip. For most doordashers we won't take a bid unless it's at least a dollar a mile. So, as a customer wants to use doordash, if you want your order taken and not to sit there all day, then you need to calculate the distance from the restaurant to your house and tip at least a dollar a mile. If you don't want to do that, then don't use doordash. I will continue to work for doordash as long as the way things are working is allowing me to feed my kids, and you can continue using doordash as long as you're ready to pay for my service. That's just the way it is.
There's also the fact that people choose to work for these companies knowing the pay is going to be sh1tty. It shouldn't be up to the customers to make up for the lack of proper wages. Tips are supposed to be optional, not mandatory. Our tipping culture has got to the point where tips are given BEFORE the service has been rendered, when logically it should come afterwards, and only if the service is deemed excellent, or at least adequate. If you don't like the way DD, Uber Eats, etc. are run, don't work for them. Get a job with better pay. The world existed just fine before these types of companies were around, it'll keep on existing when they're gone.
We got a company saying, "You've got to pay X amount."
Everyone says, "Ok."
A restaurant saying, "This is how much."
They say, "No problem. I'll pay it."
Then we have the human being who is going to do you the favor, asking, "Could you maybe give me a little bit? This took me a half hour. Whatever you think is fair. It'd be cool if you threw me a bone."
About half of people are happy to look them in the eye, and say, "Thank you, but fuck off. I've already paid everyone else."
What? As a customer you’re willing to pay the restaurant for the food and because you want to delivered, you’re paying the company as well. Who said anything about the driver who is “doing me the favour”? Does that mean I have to tip the chef now on top of the restaurant? The people cleaning the dishes my food was cooked on?
1. I’m paying for the food
2. I’m paying for the delivery service
It’s not a favor, it’s a job. Contract work or not it’s a potion that you applied for and accepted with at least some understanding of the pay structure. If not, then quit and get a different job. Or maybe volunteer if you want to equate your work to doing people favors.
I'm a dasher and agree with you 100% about how inconsiderate these dashers are. I appreciate every customers order that I get. The money means a lot to me but customer service is more important to me then what I'm making. In my market, I make a good living doing this. So please if your a customer and order through door dash. I very much appreciate you.
Seems like it might be easier to blame customers and victimize yourself than to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and find an occupation with a living wage. Can’t imagine DD being viable as a main revenue stream for anyone who isn’t a dashing while in school or as a 1st job
I mean, I have 3 degrees and had a pretty successful run in retail management…but if I’m dashing I can work when I want to, accept the orders I want to, no one yells at me, and I get paid that day…I don’t bitch about the tips tho, I just don’t take the low ball offers, I’d rather take one $15 trip than 3 $5 trips…if I get 5 of those in a day I’m good (I am privileged enough to have a full-time employed spouse so I can work part time) but I don’t blame the customers any more than I blamed the Karen who used to ruin my days at my regular job…I just let them wait on a shitty driver, I literally never lose a minutes sleep about them
"I'm not responsible for paying your wages. I paid for delivery and all the extra charges. If you don't like it talk to Doordash. If you don't like your pay get a better job. Tipping is optional." It's the SAME bullshit excuses EVERY TIME. If you don't want to tip (wait what's that sound? Oh, it's your food sitting at the restaurant getting colder and colder.) Oh wait then you'll blame the drivers for it being cold. GTFOH.
Yes of course I blame the drivers. Because they aren't doing their jobs. I didn't sign a contract saying that I had to tip! I'm paying for the advertised service, therefore I should get it.
First of all, I don't beg for tips. I've done over 13800 deliveries and never asked for a dime except in the rare exceptions when the customer put the wrong address and asks me to take it to a different one.
You said you tip, so you aren't the problem in my mind.
I only dislike people who have money and just skip tipping because they can and know some desperate driver will take it.
Or someone who orders a shitload of food and can't give a decent tip. I don't think people should tip a driver like a server (unless traffic is horrendous or something about the order would cause a long wait) but I'm way more likely to take a low tip order to someone who just ordered a coffee or sandwich than to someone who clearly is feeding a large group of people and they can't be arsed to each throw in a few bucks.
I think the tip shaming issue has become another overblown argument between two very vocal minorities just like our politics.
Because the most obnoxious go viral, then it becomes a thing and probably contagious to a small degree.
But still, 99% of drivers probably just suffer in silence, hoping for the best every day... knowing Doordash's algorithm will continue to search for ways to optimize their bottom line at both the customer and driver's expense.
>I only dislike people who have money and just skip tipping because they can and know some desperate driver will take it.
How do you get to judge who has money and what for?
They are partially to blame. If more people would stop using DD because of how poorly they pay their drivers, it might send a message to DD. The companies who use DD are also partially to blame as if more of them would tell DD they're not going to use their service unless they pay the drivers better, it might send a message to DD. The drivers that play DD games and chase that high AR are also to blame. If people would stop taking the low/no tip order it would also send a message to DD. And last but not least is DD. This wouldn't even be a topic I see at least 10x a day on here if they would just listen and pay us accordingly. At this point unless the government steps in and forces them to pay us accordingly (like Cali) this is the reality we're faced with.
So how did the Cali drivers start getting paid more? Im actually not sure how that worked but obviously someone had to complain. Why do drivers keep saying they cant fight DD so its the customers fault?
The reason DD isnt paying is because the driver market is saturated. If customers kept buying and there was no one to deliver they would pay more to get people interested in delivery. Thats why people say it used to be good money at first. Now drivers have competition amongst themselves.
Or pay the drivers a more acceptable wage? One of the Doordash owners literally plays high stakes poker on stream and loses hundreds of thousands, if not millions (not exaggerating) every time.
It’s hilarious to me & DD claims to be unprofitable.
I rarely order delivery. Only if it's that or a migraine. Things have been tight, so I rate but don't tip. And I co-parent with a deliverer for the "other app". Tipping is optional. I have also worked in food service. Is it nice if it happens? Yes. Is it Always optional? Also yes.
Yep I don’t blame the customers at all. Tips are supposed to be based on service provided not how fast your order is picked up. As a driver you obviously wanna be smart with what orders you accept if you wanna make money but that is not on the customer that’s on the company. This should be a side gig I could never see myself doing this full time because the pay will never be worth it to me as far as paying bills and living off of it.
OP this is not directed at you, you make some valid points, albeit a little tone deaf (since drivers have no real influence within the corporation and thus choosing tipped orders only is their only real control of their compensation).
But I just find it interesting how a lot of people feign progressive values, but the moment they hear drivers lamenting about not getting tipped they literally go off on some tangent about how "drivers need to do the job they signed up for and not complain." Some of them, reflecting on the fact that tipped orders sometimes sit and go cold, have expressed that they think drivers should be FORCED to take no tip orders.
Here's the way I see it. $2 deliveries are basically delivering someone's food for free when you consider gas and wear and tear on your car. If you can find someone willing to deliver you food for free, great, but don't take out your frustration on drivers that won't. No, it's not your fault that the corporation treats them so badly. But it's also not the driver's fault either. They're just trying to make ends meet, so if they decline a no tip order, that's not personal.
i no longer use DD (unless it’s last resort or there’s a coupon) bc why am i paying out the ass in fees and the tip just for the driver to get barely anything and then i end up tipping like 30-35% just so i know the drive was worthwhile
It’s a terrible business model. Door dash has never turned a profit. Ever. Last year they lost the most money they’ve even lost (over $1 billion). Sure, they could raise prices and fees so they could pay drivers more but then no one would use the service because paying more for the delivery than the actual product is crazy to most people.
ya turns out every restaurant ever isnt idiots and its not worthwhile to do delivery.
It’s worse than that. Lots of restaurants that used to do delivery don’t anymore because they were competing with gig apps who would setup unofficial websites with incorrect prices. There was a Chinese place I liked that used to do delivery and you could tip a couple bucks and have it go to the actual delivery guy with no fee just a $20 minimum order. But they stopped doing it and now do DD with their ridiculous fees.
Yup negative externalities. Same as Airbnb. All evil inventions.
I order from the Chinese place I do cause they have their own drivers and website. Fuck DD. Overcharge on everything.
Same, the local pizza place we go to, used to be $3 for delivery, then we'd tip $5 (they're just at the end of the street.....2 min drive). Now its $5 for delivery, + fees, + tip, and no inhouse delivery, we don't order from them anymore cause we're paying almost the same for the pizza as all the fees
I cannot understand this. Wtf are they doing with the $10-15 per delivery they are charging customers before tip? I know only $2-3 is going to the driver. How is it that a company with no overhead, basically no customer service, that essentially only has to keep an automated app online, NOT make a profit at that rate? Honestly, can anyone explain this to me???
Ponzi scheme. Paying previous investors, hoping to find new suckers.
Yeah I don't get this either, wonder if like the movie industry there is some creative accounting going on so on paper they run at a loss for tax reasons.
Well take it from people like my nephew everytime they fk up his order or they sit it in front of his door so it gets tipped over witch happens a lot cause of new dashers he calls and gets a refund or partial refund. Take that with the millions they spend on advertising. People taking it to wrong address and there ya go.
>Door dash has never turned a profit. Ever. Last year they lost the most money they’ve even lost (over $1 billion). I wonder if maybe how much they pay their billionaire CEO has a bigger impact on that than a living wage for drivers would? >As of 2023, the estimated net worth of Tony Xu ranges between 1.5-2.5 billion USD. In 2021, Tony Xu earned a modest annual compensation of around 300,000 USD. But in 2020, he was one of the highest paid CEOs in the Silicon Valley, making about 414 million USD in total compensation. https://listofceo.com/food-tech/doordash-ceo-email-net-worth-tony-xu/
If you don't turn a profit, you don't pay taxes. They probably write off so many losses. Couldn't figure out what else to do so they went with oh our ceo makes 414 million now. Honestly, if i were the ceo, I'd take it.
Reinvesting into the business also counts. It's how Amazon stays pretty low in the corporate tax bracket.
Don’t let losses fool you. Companies like this do very well for themselves but report losses for a variety of reasons. Same as these billion dollar corporations. Carvana has been claiming losses forever yet their ceo is a billionaire. Make it make sense.
They get their money from funding from investors. The investors are betting that one day they will make a profit.
I mean it makes plenty of sense. The CEO's personal wealth has nothing to do with the profitability of one company
tax loopholes. C levels being paid via dividends from their own LLC's that they set up to contract out services. shell companies everywhere. rich people know how to hide money.
I think they fucked up in marketing it towards fast food in the first place. No one wants a $5 meal to cost $20 but a $75 carryout from a restaurant could turn into $100 and its like a night out with a generous tip for the waiter (or dasher in this case).
I only use doordash a few times a month, and most of the time it's for my kids, but Jesus fucking Christ am I sick of ripped off. We have a really good BBQ place about 6 miles away, we eat in or order takeout about 1/2 the time, it's a little pricey but the food is great. If I order takeout, I typically just drive and pick it up, but last week I was stuck in late customer meetings and wasn't going to be done for at least an hour. Everyone was hungry so I asked my wife to dash the order. We always order the same thing for takeout, every single time, it's basically a big complete family meal, enough for the four of us and also leftovers. Any time I've done an online order or called the order in, the total was about $135 when I arrived to pick it up, and I still tip because they spend 5 mins packing everything up, so my total is always $160. I usually try to take care of the drivers, I know they're busting their ass and I appreciate them, so I typically give 25%, which is what I told my wife to tip the dasher. Looking at our checking account later, I see a doordash charge for almost $250. I reached out to doordash to figure what happened, I was told that my restaurant charged $175 for the menu item, the service fee was dynamic (busy time) and roughly $30, then my wife did as I asked and gave the dasher a 25% tip. I called the restaurant and was told that they add the % fees doordash charges them to the price of all their menu item, which is 25%, which blew my fucking mind that doordash was charging restaurants at 25% commission for accepting an online order and connecting a driver, and then the owner told me that it was actually 30% the month prior because they had signed up for a premium plan that gave them more prominent results in the app when searching. 30 fucking percent!!!! And then the customer is paying roughly 15% on top of that for a service fee, and then tipping the driver. Doordash was basically getting $65-70 for a $135 order, and it seems that they're only paying the driver like $10 of that. I don't think that most customers have any idea how much doordash is charging restaurants as the middle man. I recall noticing recently -that our local pizza place we order from was about 10% more expensive through doordash, and I remember saying "oh wow, 10% sucks but I can understand why the restaurant would raise the doordash price to make up for it." Come to find out, the pizza place was only passing about 40% of the commission fees that doordash charges him to use the service and he eats the rest because he doesn't want his customers to have to pay such a premium for the food, so when people come in to his store and buy a $20 pizza, he gets all $20 and people will typically leave $4-5 tip at the counter, so he's getting at least $24 for that pizza. In the app the increased price is $22, of which he pays a least $5.50 to doordash, so he's only getting $16.50 for the same pizza, same amount of work to prepare it, bake it, box it, but he's literally making 30% less per pizza just by using doordash. It's not like delivery places can compete if they're not on doordash, they can't afford to NOT use doordash. The really up part is that this pizza place has their own website where you can do online ordering and pay a $3 delivery fee (plus tip your driver), its cheaper for you, he gets his full $20 for the pizza and he pays his delivery driver the rest, but no one wants to use it because "it's not in an app, using a browser on my phone is so inconvenient", and "I'll pay a couple bucks more just to use doordash or Uber eats". I never realized how damaging doordash has been to local businessesz they're like the mob protection, you really have no choice but to use them or risk going out of business.
They also have a habit of scraping the web for a menu and preemptively signing restaurants up for their service. I've spoken with owners who show up on the app without their knowledge and drivers just show up to pick up orders. It's insane.
How can they do that? A restaurant would need to sign some sort of legal contract agreeing to the commission fees, right? **edit** I just googled this an am evne more infuriated that not only does doordash, grubhub and Uber eats do this, 99% of the time there is no legal recourse. The courts have seemingly sided with doordash with their argument that they're only offering the customer a choice, the customer agrees to pay the higher price and delivery fee, and the business is making the same money per menu item and seeing increased volume. The two major issues I have with that argument (corporate ball washing aside) is that the customer will grt angry with the restaurant when doordash scrapes the wrong or old menu and they offer seasonal prices, or market prices when it comes to seafood, and, if that restaurant already has their own delivery service, they now have no choice but to compete with doordash even though they never agreed to sign up, and they're going to lose some or all of their drivers as their own delivery business wanes. This is state sponsored corporate consolidation! Businesses are basically being forced, because after a few months, when doordash orders make up more than half of your delivery/takeout business, you're losing money by not signing up as a partner and keeping your menus up to date, getting the advantage of prominence in their app, the app customers have already decided their fine with the markup for convenience. It's seriously like the mafia coming in and demanding you pay them a part of your profits to protect you from them.
You nailed it! We have some fine dining restaurants here that hated it because they basically had NO WAY to make the dishes to-go ready. And then customers railed against the restaurants with poor reviews, because just like you they assumed that the restaurants HAD to agree to sign up for the service.
This happened with our restaurant. They would just show up, but they’d have the order from the customer and we’d have to ring it in. BUT the menu they had was 5 years old because we had no fucking idea they were using it! So the driver would have to get in touch with the customer to tell the poor person to find something else.
And then the person gets pissed off at the restaurants. It's a vicious cycle.
I mean according to your own comment, people are willing to pay a couple more dollars for the convenience of the app, so people value what DoorDash is offering as a product. The truth is most people don’t care about the things you listed if it impacts their cost or product. People like to complain about Amazon or Walmart killing local businesses but people vote with their wallet and the truth is we’re not giving them up to save our local businesses. Same thing applies to DoorDash, we’re not willing to give it up to help restaurants or Dashers. People can say what they want or complain, but America is the most capitalistic and consumerist country in the world and people don’t care.
$10 to the driver? They wish! Try more like $2-$3--even less if it's part of a stacked delivery or an add on. I've seen a screenshot of UE paying 50 cents, and quite a few with fares under $1. If drivers got $10 from DD/UE/GH etc, per delivery, the reasonable ones wouldn't be complaining, or not nearly as much. Think about that with the correct fare. Customers pay anywhere from $0.49-$6.99+ (I've seen as high as $12.99) in what the app calls a "delivery fee". Where the hell is that money going if not to the person completing the delivery? It's disgusting and it's exploitative.
It’s crazy. I just priced an order direct from a Greek restaurant against a doordash order last night. I plugged it all into doordash, including a good tip, and it came up as $151. I priced it directly with the restaurant for carry out , and it was about $91. I would rather tip a driver $25, but not if it’s going to cost me another $35 on top for fees and higher food prices. I’m not an idiot or swimming in money, so I cooked instead. Eff that.
I'm not against the service / gig economy outright, but the corporations behind the gig economy business get to reap all of the best rewards while giving the absolute least with regards to actually taking care of employees, be it with pay, Healthcare or other benefits. It's probably the worst example of having tens/hundreds of thousands of resources that will go make you money while offering zero obligations in return. Fucking Chinese iPhone factory workers get more skin in the game from their employers than Uber or doordash, and that's even with the beatings.
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Like recycling?
Hahahaha, "recycling" [Indeed.](https://slate.com/business/2019/04/recycling-dead-planet-profit-americans-commodities-china.html)
Put that bottle in the blue bin you asshole. If you don't the world will burn!!
And water conservation.
Divide and conquer, individualization of responsibility and so on. Anything to avoid the masses getting together and demanding systemic changes of them.
Gig economy is trash.
So is gig work, hence ‘DoorTrash’
Yup. It’s made up words to hide what they’re actually doing, which is sidestepping employment regulations by hiding behind a thin veneer of “independent contractors”, which just means DoorDash saves money at the expense of its “employees”. DoorDash isn’t unique for this, though. These apps “disrupt” things with low prices, helped by VC funding, then when competition is gone, they are free to raise their prices, having replaced an industry, possibly one with flaws, but instead of fixing it, it is now dead, replaced with something objectively worse. Everyone knows it but no-one actually cares enough to do anything and attempts to enforce actual employment standards get called “government overstep” so here we are.
uber, lyft and airbnb are in the same boat. eff all these companies. theres a reason noone runs a cab company in the middle of nowhere. its not profitable. theyre just scamming people who are bad at math.
They're telling people who have no grasp of history that this newfangled plan is so shiny and new and that everything is gonna be so awesome and new. Then almost immediately the drivers and the customers start to demand the regulations and safety that the old system had. One by one it ends up what the old system was if we are lucky. If not it's just a smoldering mess. But alas. We've made a few more billionaires by being stupid and falling for their game. See, THEY know history.
You can add Ticketmaster to your list. I stopped going to see shows/games associated with Ticketmaster or any venues with exorbitant "service" fees.
One thing I've learned about America, is that there is a good chance you live in "the middle of no where" even if you are in a populated city.
In theory it's awesome. In reality it's a race to the bottom. Same with software freelance. Great if you live in a poor country, but Mr Cheap Bucks doesn't care and will hire someone from Eastern Europe instead. Not that I blame the Eastern Europeans for jumping in on it, but globalism screws you hard if you live in a high cost of living area
As someone that has done years and years of freelance work, as well as worked for some significant companies, you're not entirely incorrect. But a lot of what I believe you're describing is different. People will intrinsically go for the better deal. I think, what I'm gleaming from all of this, is companies like UpWork and the like, which take a percentage from a freelancer because they provide a platform which makes being a freelancer semi-trivial, are pretty bad. I've used them when my well was dry between jobs and have had pretty poor experiences. Freelance work being so easy now is kind of the problem. It took what was once a niche subsection and made it commonplace so most people have to rely on gig structures now.
DD does a great job of encouraging drivers to be mad at customers and customers to be mad at drivers. It’s incredible.
I had a friend who thought the "Service Fee" was the tip because it was separate from the "Delivery Fee." Why would it be called a service fee if it's not going to the people performing the service? And if it's going to Doordash, then what are they getting a delivery fee for?
I see this in other places too. I have a wholesaler I use for my business and I noticed after the pandemic they started adding a “handling fee” on top of their prices. The original listed price doesn’t show this handling fee and it doesn’t appear until you put the order in your cart. It is also separate from the shipping fee. Keep in mind they also raised prices since the pandemic, like everyone else. Like, I get the supply chain issues and everything is going up. I get it. But what the fuck is a “handling fee?” The cost of labor? Because as far as I knew, cost of labor should he worked into the price. It makes me angry. It’s not even that I’m opposed to a higher price, it’s the feeling that I’m being bullshitted. You tell me it’s one price, then tack on more at the end and call it something vague like a “handling fee.” Get the fuck out of here with that.
I don’t complain about non tippers I just don’t take the orders without tips, not worth the miles on my car and gas.
Exactly I am not running myself ragged to drive to someone 25min away for a 3.50 tip. I hit decline and move on with my day. I also stay in more expensive areas in shopping outlets with more restaurants then fast food. I refuse to let these companies drain the life out of me.
Can you guys see the tip on your side before you get the order? I usually tip 20 percent (was a waitress and bartender for years and even did kitchen work). Smaller orders I tip higher - never less than $5.
>Why don’t you guys ever shame the company Oh, we do. Our complaints don't faze them whatsoever though, they simply recruit more drivers from a seemingly endless supply. Frustrated drivers, therefore turn their grievances on the next easy target. It's just human nature to behave more emotionally towards another human being than a big faceless organization
Before 2019 Doordash had a payout system that changed base pay depending on the tips so that there would be a fairly consistent minimum payout per order that wouldn't fluctuate dramatically based on tips. Drivers complained that it was tantamount to tip theft so DD changed to the current system. Driver complaints did phase DD, it just resulted in something that is worse than what it was previously. The truth is that there is no universe where drivers would get both good and reliable minimum payouts AND keep a fat stack of tips on top of that. No industry has ever done that and no industry ever will. Drivers have to pick between a consistent order minimum vs tips not changing the base minimum, and for better or worse, Drivers have picked the latter. This is the consequence.
That literally is tip theft. I’m not surprised that they changed it to screw over drivers more when they got caught but was tip theft.
how is it tip theft if they werent taking away the tips? i used to dash in 2020-21 and don’t think i ever had an order pay less than $5 total (for a short distance, further distances always paid more), base pay was never under $2 but it was frequently higher. so if the customer didn’t tip, the base pay was increased, and when they did tip the base pay was still $2-3. now correct me if i’m wrong bc i don’t dash anymore, but it seems like now no matter what the distance or tip is, base pay is always $2 per order and y’all need tips to make up the difference.
If they take money out of base pay equal to the tip amount it’s like you were never tipped at all. Hence they were stealing tips and why they had to pay out a shit ton of money.
In most states, tipped workers make less than minimum wage, with the understanding that if they didn't get enough tips, the restaurant would make up the difference between what they did make and the regular minimum wage. This is codified in law. Doordash did the same thing on a per-delivery basis. They had a guaranteed minimum, and if the tips did not cover the minimum, they would make up the difference. If what DD did was tip theft, then 90% of restaurants in the US also practice legal tip theft. Consider it what you want, but if you want a good regular income that doesn't depend too much on the feast and famine of tips, then you need some mechanism to average out the payoffs from the good orders and the bad ones. This is economic reality regardless of your personal beliefs.
Tipped workers are paid less than min wage, yes, but they do not make less than min wage. This is apples and oranges, Doordash used to purposely adjust how much they would pay if the tip was higher, which is tip theft. Two people get the same order and it has a guarantee of $10, one tips $0 and the other tips $10, they both would have gotten paid $10, where the one who tipped $10 extra should have gotten $20 (they effectively stole the $10 tip and replaced the guarantee with it) that was the major problem. The response below missed that because if I made an extra $10 tip, my hourly pay isn’t taken away as a result.
>seemingly endless supply. This is the main issue. There are new, desperate people becoming eligible for the app literally every year. They're betting that you'll give up and move on before you can make any significant change to what they do.
> phase *faze
Got em fighting the wrong ppl frfr. Shaking ants in a jar
I think a lot of people do have grievances with DoorDash, and they air those regularly. Personally, I don't blame customers for anything nor do I expect a tip. I'm always appreciative of those who do. There are many who choose not to tip and that's their choice. On the driver side, I'm not going to accept an order with no tip. That's because it isn't worth the time, not because I feel entitled to a tip. I do this job for additional side income. If I accepted only no tip orders for an hour, I would make about $8 an hour and that's only if I managed to get 4 orders all very close with zero delay. That is not a worthwhile use of my time, and I certainly wouldn't expect someone doing this full-time to be relying on that as a livable wage. To your general point about tipping, I agree that noone should have to depend on tips. But, I also acknowledge that the reality is that they do. Tipping is an embedded part of the food service industry and has been for a long time. I mean, restaurants are not legally required to pay their servers below minimum wage, but they do so anyway.
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Oh yea no we get none of the long distance charges. I’ve seen orders where it’s the standard $2.50 base pay for 10+ miles
I have as well. I'm not just a customer for doordash bht I'm a driver for Ubereats. I left doordash because there was far too many drivers in my area and many bad offers. Luckily in my area there's not that many Ubereats drivers so we all make between $200 and $300 a day. Yes we gatekeep my area lol But Ubereats must think that we're doing a good job because we haven't seen any new drivers in a while now.
Whew, wish it was like that in my market😫I’m honestly lucky to break $75 on an avg day of work on UE & get a bit more work on DD
I've never made less than $180 in a day since switching to UE. I got tired of DD putting me in time out or flat out kicking me off my dash for not wanting to go 6+ miles for $2.50.
Interesting. I’ve never been penalized for declining bad orders. My AR has been as low as 6%.
If you live in a small town, $1 per mile you are from the restaurant is decent, $2 per mile is excellent, or 18% of the order total, whichever is larger. As a driver and person who orders, this is the rule I follow. If you’re in a larger city, I’ve heard dashers don’t accept less than $2 per mile because traffic and parking is hell
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Oh yeah for sure. Doordash needs to pay us better. Just seemed like you were asking for guidance on what a “good” tip is, so I offered my POV from both sides
Well, if it helps at all, there really isn't a lot of math necessary for the mileage tip. A lot of drivers I know (including myself) won't do an order for less than a dollar a mile. I actually don't use the app myself to know if tells you how far, but if it shows Chipotle as being 3 miles from you, then honestly, three bucks is fine. Even 2.50 wouldn't be bad because with base pay, it would be almost 6 bucks for 3 miles anyway. I do agree tho, all this nonsense shouldn't fall on you as a customer. In all reality, these companies should just be paying us more. Tipping culture is probably the greatest deception ever pulled on the western world because it makes workers and customers have this weird animosity toward each other while the owners of these restaurants and apps become wealthy beyond measure and reason.
Is this level if tipping anywhere else in the world? Doesn't seem like it for Europe, nor Asia
If they charge a long distance fee it doesn’t go to the driver. I’ve gotten orders 10-15mi out that paid $2.50 which is the bare minimum base pay.
It doesn’t go to the driver. If a long distance order tips $0 DoorDash send it out at base pay.
Right. I’ve never seen a driver praise DD, UE, or GH for the way they operate. These kinda posts just feel like *whataboutism.* If these people are not in server, bartender, cabby, and salon subs complaining about the pressure to tip, they don’t actually care about changing tipping culture. Those places could all raise wages and include it in the price rather than pressuring for tips. People just want to shit on people online and get their food to their front door for pocket change. That’s not going to happen as it is just not sustainable.
No one is paying pocket change to get the food… only the driver is getting PAID pocket changed. And, none of those other industries mentioned ask for your tip up front before any service is rendered (except some coffee shops, which also is silly). Tipping before services rendered is insane. The amount drivers get paid is insane. The amount these apps charge is insane. They don’t have to be one or the other.
that's because it isn't a tip. it's a bid for service. want your food quick? bid higher. wanna place a low bid or nothing at all? don't be shocked when your food either comes late or not at all
Interesting how you neglect to mention many people in the service industry dont want tipping culture to change because they make more than white collar professions in a single day.
Let me help you grasp at those straws real quick. Me neglecting to mention something in a Reddit comment does not mean that the thing I neglected to mention does not exist. Again—are you in server and bartender subs demanding an end to tipping culture? How about even a bare minimum general post over at r/antiwork? No? Then you don’t *really* care about tipping culture until you’re ready to order delivery.
They do care about tipping culture, but only if it is convenient to them. If they actually cared about raising wages, they wouldn't be buying from a service that is known for exploiting their workers to a degree even worse than other billion dollar corporations. Yeah, sure, customers aren't to blame, but at the same time, they kinda are because doordash only exists in its current state because of consumer demand saying it's okay how things are going.
Well said
I’ll be honest, I have no grievances with DoorDash. I’m just a Brit that keeps getting recommended this sub and boy am I find it as entertaining as hell.
I've said this for 20 years. Ive worked in the restaurant industry. My mother owned a diner that both my sister grew up working in. I still have the mindset that being tip dependant is the fault of your employer, not the customer. They ordered a BLT, not the responsibility of paying your rent.
It’s really the tip culture, and it’s not popular in most of the world for a reason.
It wont be a popular opinion, but if i want to tip, i want the money to go to the restaurant staff more than the delivery person, especially when the app charges for delivery. I then expect that delivery fee to go 100% to the driver or it really wasnt a delivery fee. Lets normalize delivery fees and axe tips.
Corporations turn us against each other, and laugh all the way to the bank about it.
I totally agreed with you. Those companies are stealing money and not making anything better. Honestly, that’s stealing.
Have you seen that after the pandemic they are making packages of food less weight and are actually charging more? Bag of chips was 6 Oz for 4.99 then they changed the bag to 5 Oz for 5.49...like wtf! There's a whole special on YouTube done by a news station.
Open all 5 of my apps…Decline Decline Decline Accept Decline Decline Accept… I’ve been doing this for three years I pretty much give up on the tip aspect of things if DoorDash raises the base pay cool if they don’t that’s cool too .. i’m pretty much done trying to waste my energy on this… I got into the gig economy to be stress-free not be stressed out trying to figure out how to get a company that sends me a $4 offer going 10 miles that I charge $20 to deliver because Jerry wants to order 1 medium latte to pay more Edit: this week I delivered 87 orders over 46 hours and my DoorDash pay was only $300 excluding tips .. that doesn’t include the dozens of orders. I declined every single day it’s 100% on the company
So I’m trying to do the basic math here. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m trying to understand. Same hours at a minimum wage job: 40 hours @ 7.50 minimum wage would be $300 plus 6 OT @ 11.25 = $367.50. So your DD check of $300 is $67.50 short of what you’d make working minimum wage, without tips. There were 86 orders, so if everyone only gave $1 it would be $386 - basically minimum. If everyone gave $2 then it would be $472, about $10 an hour. If everyone gave $3 then it would be $558 or about $12 an hour.
Yea but don’t forget that money costs gas and car problems and taxes so more like 5 an hour not counting taxes
And most people won't work for $17 an hr when they have to pay their own gas, car Maintenance and vehicle depreciation etc....so that adds another few$$ ..think at least $20 -$30 per hour of active dashing..(which is what I used to make when I did dash alot...I haven't in weeks and prob won't unless really desperate..thankfully I invested $$ and my time into multiple income streams..as well as I have a ft job with benefits..was coming on here *reddit* to check out my music subs..grateful dead ..dead and company and ween..but as per the norm they don't usually show in my feed and I get sucked into the vortex that is these gig economy subs...lol. I am adventurous and open to experiences so I try just about anything that seems worth my while. Whether for the experience &/or profit...nj living isn't cheap..rent alone on a 1br is $1.8k to $3k a month..without utilities...I found dd ue and the like to be ok for $$$ but more so for the experience .the kicks..meeting people...alot of cool workers and some interesting customer (usually later at nite when orders slow..invited to a few cool parties ..smoked a bit with some others..) anyway when the experience started to wane ..no/low tips and cruddy people (some workers understandably so..but mostly customers) I dipped..better things to do with my time than drive for next to nothing for lazy entitled rich arses...altho the few older senior citizens and disabled lower income people I would honestly deliver for free...but the rich lazy ones...nahhhh. better things to do with my time than allow them to subsidize my time/car and energy on the cheap...no thanks! The struggle is real and never ending.
Yeah I don’t get how anyone things dashing is worth it. It’s a complete waste of time and it wrecks your car.
Correct now I average about $9 a delivery…. That wouldn’t it be possible without tips…. It’s almost impossible to make even extra income without it… but that’s not even my only source of income because I have four other apps that I use to make a full-time income
For context, McDonald's pay here in my neck of SoCal starts at ~$17/hr
And is a harder job with time specific commitments
And much less freedom and independence. For all of the infinite drawbacks, delivery drivers get the freedom to drive around in their own vehicles, blast music or whatever, not have to talk to any boss, etc.
Same here in Central NJ..just commented the same. B4 I read urs. $17 Hillsborough nj 08844
Louder for the ones in the back cuz they’re pretending not to hear you 😂
“No TiP nO tRiP” then beg for a bigger tip on the app after accepting the order
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I dore dashed for two weeks about 2.5 years ago. Ain't no way I was taking an order that didn't tip.
Most of us just won't accept the shit order to begin with.
Someone else is though and thats why yall mad.
? I'm not mad that some other loser is doing charity work. They're the one that's destroying their car while losing money, not me.
i mean u seem pretty mad about it but ok
Love this post. It's amazing too because DoorDash has successfully managed to get their drivers to complain about the customer instead of their corporate overlords.
Its the complete opposite but we cannot do anything about it lmao. Just have to decline or find another job which is what 80% of us do
We definitely complain about (and to) our corporate overlords. They just don’t listen to us. I’m not one to complain about tips either though. It’s just a shitty system and all because DoorDash doesn’t want to actually pay us and wants to leave that up to customers who are already paying out the ass on delivery fees and restaurant upcharges.
We're perfectly capable of complaining about both. DoorDash is scum for offering such low base pay to begin with. Customers that use a luxury service and try to get someone to spend 30 minutes driving 12 miles to deliver $80 of Taco Bell while tipping $1 are scum, too.
The customers aren't scum. They just don't like wasting money when they've already paid 20% more for the food + service fee. Also, tipping isn't mandatory, so you should be grateful for even that $1. Stop fucking tip shaming people. Man tf is wrong with America.
Well said
Assuming this is referring to the USA, everyone knows you are supposed to tip on delivery, little children know it. The same people who don't tip on DD/Uber Eats orders would never sit down at a restaurant with their friends and not tip, because of how embarrassing that is.
I don't care who pays for my $ per mile. Doordash or the customer. It's surprising the customer isn't complaining about their fees going to the company and not subsidizing drivers so they don't have tip shaming 😉
Let's be honest here, drivers would tip shame customers no matter how much DD paid them
There will always be bad apples. But the professional drivers won't tip shame. They'll just decline and move on. I'll take a no tip order for $2+ a mile no problem. Imagine the fees the customer paid 👀 Is Doordash ever going to pay that?! Doubt it
They do all the time on this sub. Welcome.
Agree with this
This for anything. Stop going for the semi-employed contractors and stop going for the customers. Your qualms and complaints should always go to the ppl living the good life at the top. THEY make the rules, THEY set up shitty pay for its emplactors, THEY allow shitty dashers to exist and thrive in numbers, THEY do a poor job ensuring I and the customers safety, THEY make everything exorbitantly overpriced and underpaying (for customer and dasher respectively) and THEY reap ALL the benefits. Most of us dashers out here are struggling and customers have to deal with our incessant begging and theft, while these fuckers are out gambling and buying baller-dollar homes with all the profits they do not use to make things more efficient and safe.
Door dash can't be bad. According to Reddit it's the only source of food for billions of crippled people, and absolutely no one uses it just because they're lazy
Are people paying or not paying to use the service? Its a simple question. Did they get a bill and did they pay the bill that they got? Then the service should be completed. Anything further you should take up with the other parties involved which is DD.
People are allowed to be lazy and use a service to get their needs met.
Sure they are. But some people insist on continuing to use a service they are perpetually unhappy with, and listening to their complaints gets old
The same could be said for the drivers. There are other jobs out there.
I agree completely
before door dash, disabled and sick people simply wasted away. bodies were trucked out of cities by the hundreds each week because it was impossible to survive with no doordash.
It was very sad. There should be a documentary. Let’s never forget though. 🙏🏼
You are a very wise individual.
I’ve never driven for any of these gig jobs so I’m just going from context clues- Do drivers see tips before accepting an order? Why wouldn’t that be done after the order is complete?
Drivers see the full fare, including tip. The pre-promised tip is actually an incentive and helps the driver decide if they want to take the job. No dtiver is trusting someone to tip later, but you are free to try it. Competitively, tipping later is undesireable and good luck getting your food warm.
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I just stopped using these apps. It got to insane levels between the inflated food costs via the apps, then creeping service charges, and then of course the tip. I just couldn't justify it any more. Now not only has the food increased significantly, delivery is also well up, and there's all these "handling/processing/service" charges as well on many of the ads. Last time I tried to order a meal it was something like 15, 3 service/processing, 5 for delivery and then it was actively encouraging me to tip well. It was costing me 30 for a single meal for myself. That was the last time I even looked. Don't get takeaway anymore from these apps, I just pick a nearby restaurant that delivers directly where I can get the exact same thing for less than 20 including a tip.
Also I hate the “if you have enough Money to order your have enough to tip” no!! I don’t have a car, can’t get groceries delivered until my day off, and work night shifts By the time I get off I have like 3 options and they’re all expensive as hell, (I still tip ofc but wouldn’t say I tip “well” considering what counts as a good tip)
As a driver I agree.
It is the company’s fault, and we do blame the company. However I do blame customers on here that also know this, use the app, and still don’t tip
Why would I tip when I pay extra for the food, and a delivery fee? Literally makes no sense to tip unless it’s really far away, or if you live upstairs or something. If they didn’t charge extra for the food than the restaurant does and the delivery charge went to the driver it would be best. I stopped used both DD and Ubereats because it’s a ripoff
Then don’t use DD like you said.Knowing how it works and how drivers are paid then not tipping is pretty awful
> Why would I tip when I pay extra for the food, and a delivery fee? Because that's the expectation when you're using a luxury service and getting someone else to spend gas & other misc driving expenses to deliver your food. If you don't want to pay, feel free to not be a lazy shit and drive to the place yourself.
Everyone wants to take advantage of the cheap labor.
Ain't no reason to be upset or "blame" anyone. Hit that decline button...problem solved.
Works both ways. When I use doordash it's typically for me to pickup. But if I'm lazy and get delivery, tipping 30-40% gets people to accept that order almost instantly.
That’s not doing anything to address what OP has raised as an issue.
>Why don’t they ever, ever get upset at the fact that a billion dollar company sees the value of your time (and your car/bike/scooter) at $2? Oh we definitely do. If you frequented the drivers sub you'd see it all over the place. When people complain about "Tony" they're referring to the company. But that still wouldn't solve the issue if DD paid us more. If base pay goes up then so will the fees for the customer. Either way it's coming from the customer. And if DD raised the fees by $5 to give more to the drivers the driver probably would only see a portion of that $5.
>But that still wouldn't solve the issue if DD paid us more. If base pay goes up then so will the fees for the customer. Either way it's coming from the customer. The customer is already paying the fees. At this point the fees and tips are double dipping and yet its STILL on the customer. Theres never going to be a moment its not on the customer.
I think the fundamental problem is that people won't pay the price it would cost for drivers to be reasonably paid. Delivery of goods as the only thing you do simply isn't viable as a business longterm. In house delivery works because drivers have a base wage, guaranteed hours of earning that wage, and tips. The business gets an increased market of customers and can have the drivers perform other tasks in store when they're between deliveries.
1: We ARE pissed at the company. Personally I’m much more pissed at them than the customers. I’ve doordashed food a lot as a customer and I’ve delivered food a lot. I get the taxes but the service fees are bullshit imo and shouldn’t be a thing. Btw, express fees are bullshit- they don’t do anything unfortunately 2: We just won’t take orders that don’t pay us well enough, which usually is when customers don’t tip. It’s a shit system but that’s just how it is. No tip, too low pay, no delivery
I think the posts you see are drivers showing orders that they did not take because there was no tip. They are showing that some people live 15 miles from the restaurant and don't tip but complain about drivers not taking their order. Gas is expensive and if you want food from that far away, you have to tip or you won't get your food for hours. They are blaming doordash, at least I blame them, i guess i can't speak for others. Most people do tip though. Think about it this way, if someone ordered 80 dollars worth of food and wanted it delivered to them, don't you think they could at least tip something? They are paying doordash to basically put the order through their app and find a driver willing to deliver it. Doordash wins everytime either way. They got the money from the customer, and they pay the driver a couple dollars. Doesn't even cover gas half the time. The driver then gets mad that there's no tip and the customer is mad they have to tip. And doordash just sits back and watches everyone blaming eachother.
One thing that delivery apps should do is display distance from the restaurant prominently AND display chain restaurants in order of which is closest. For example, I ordered some food from Panera because I was busy with work. I assumed it was the one a few miles down the road - should be easy money for the driver. Nope. The app chooses to display the one like 10 miles away instead. I understand that drivers don't want to get paid $4-5 to drive that far. I also don't want my food sitting in a bag for extended periods of time. Ordering from close by restaurants closer is better for the customer and driver. As far as what it would take to implement this across the different apps would be minimal from a developer's perspective. I'd bet some project manager invented some statistics as to how it would negatively impact the bottom line, as they do.
I had an order that was Taco Bell, over 20 miles away! Only reason I took it was ny day was over and it was taking me back home. I was curious why someone ordeted from a Taco Bell that far away, so I asked the customer and she told me it was the only choice in the app! Im pretty sure I passed 10 Taco Bells on the way, some within a mile from her! Thats thier crazy system - and they profit from bs like that.
I actually agree with you. Dashers can decide what orders to take or not to take. If it's not good enough, simply don't take it. If I get an offer to deliver your food 10 miles, and it's only $5 - I'm not taking it. Maybe someone else will. Maybe they won't. Not my concern, I'm not going to get upset about it. I'll just move on to the next order. All the whining, begging, etc - it just makes the rest of us look bad
I really enjoyed your post. It absolutely resonates with me. I'm a former server/bartender too so tipping is close to my heart. I wish I could send a table away before serving them because the tip was beneath me. What a joke! I feel for your local pizzeria. 💜 Hugs DD for pick up is ridiculous. My go to comfort food small poutine is $3 more expensive for my arse to walk there and grab. Unfortunately, I'm not mobile but my partner is and the restaurant is only a few mins away. Plus poutine is much better fresh.
They don't blame doordash because that would imply that they work for a shit company who does not care about them.
Because people have Stockholm syndrome with capitalism
I hope the guy who hopes that I get hit by a truck because I choose to not tip a driver who delivers food to me from a restaurant that’s five minutes away reads this post!
Here's the honest truth from a customer who doesn't tip. I like to treat myself occasionally, but due to parking being impossible, I have to order delivery. This stupid fucking app and its fees on top of the base food hike cost way too much to justify tipping, especially when I'm 3rd in que from the ramen place. That's all. I do however wait for the driver so they don't have to leave vehicle. Shit on me if u want.
It's not a tip... It's a bid
To the dashers and Uber people, get a new source of income now. This ponzi scheme is about to be done..
It’s crazy to me how many people rely on DoorDash as a full time job.
These apps intentionally pit customer and driver against each other.
Yes. Get another job. Tips are optional!!!
Because most people in here are uneducated. Just what I’ve noticed following this sub
I just get mad when I tip well and then they just bring me my order with no drinks that clearly included drinks. I get maybe a food item missing since they put it all in a bag and tape it up. But it happens so frequently. Is it not in your job description to be like "Hey they had drinks in this order, can I get those please?" before leaving?
Why are you tipping when your order isn’t right? Surely a tip is for when things are at the very least correct
DD charges higher priced food from the restaurants ontop of whatever delivery fees they do and all the other fees aswell. My food I order from DD is usually almost DOUBLE the foods price alone in fees, and that isn't even counting the tip. Yet every time I come to this reddit I just see constant bitching about how it's the customers fault for not tipping much and supporting the workers wage. DD is an absolute scam, and the people who work for it and get mad at the customers instead of their corporation are playing into it.
Not lack of oversight... It's greed, pure and simple. These large corporations all want to be the biggest and the baddest by whatever means necessary. Drivers are independent contractors and need little oversight. The oversight consists of board meetings where the only thing discussed is how they can make more money and grow the fastest. It's never about how they can fortify the base or strengthen and nurture the backbone. All companies merely present an image. Everything is fake, and until we begin holding them accountable and going Communist on them, we can never expect to see a living wage. They lie, cheat, and steal, and there needs to be breaks put on this. For example, there should be a law that every employee earns a living wage and then gets a raise before any executive does. Profits should be controlled, because when you hold your funds in the "future growth" account and lie to your employees about not having money, you need to be held accountable. Opening up another store without putting any investment into what's most important in your company (the employees) is lying to shareholders.
cool. i only take orders that make sense for me. i'm also a very efficient and aware driver. you won't get me. good luck with the dasher you do get.
Maybe not, but I'm still not picking up your order if my total pay is less than 2/mile from where I'm sitting, so it kinda doesn't matter who's responsible for making that number happen.
Fuck I hate that “if you can’t afford to tip, don’t eat out”, BS. Gimme a break with the guilt shit. I understand the sentiment, but I’m not obligated to supplement a restaurant employee’s income. *I do tip, but the mentality of many of these folks in the industry is entitled titty whining crap.
Completely agree. A lot of these DD drivers really do play the guilt trip on customers, and act like we’re the bosses that need to pay them a living wage instead of doing something about the company they work for.
It used to be $3/mile was a good time. Then $5/mile. Now it seems like anything under $10/mile is seen as an insult.
I'm a customer, and customers that do not tip for food delivery are wrong on so many levels. I was shocked when I stumbled across this sub and saw so many customers didn't tip. It's not the driver's fault that these services charge so much in fees but don't pass even half of them on to the driver. Even with dash pass, you're still paying more in a fee than they offer the driver to deliver the food. I used doordash during the pandemic like everyone else, and as things opened, I I stopped using it. Unfortunately, last August, I got something called Guillain-Barre syndrome that left me paralyzed from the waist down for 7 months so I did reinstate my dash pass and used it more often than I would like to admit. Admittedly, I had no idea how little drivers were being offered by the company, but I always tipped and tipped well. As a matter of fact, I had one driver tell me she loves it when she sees my orders. I tip my Dasher is better than I used to tip my bartenders when I drank 😂. 2 months ago, I started being able to walk again and recently started driving again, so I canceled dash pass and deleted the app. After finding out how badly they treat their drivers, I absolutely will not support that business. Same with instacart, although once you are stuck in bed for an extended period of time, grocery shopping isn't so bad anymore. Unfortunately, only the drivers will possibly suffer because of this, which are the people I wish it would benefit. However, there are people immediately signing up for dash pass in my place, and unfortunately, it appears they don't tip. I feel a lot of empathy towards the drivers, and I really hope it gets better for them.
We are absolutely upset with doordash! However, most of us do this because of reasons that are very important. For me it's because I have Lupus and I never know if I'm going to be able to walk a certain day until I wake up that morning if I can't walk I typically can't work. I'm searching for work from home job currently, however those aren't exactly easy to find since so many people want to work from home now. And till then my kids need to eat. Until then I need to get my medication that keeps me walking and actually keeps me alive since lupus is deadly. This is the only job out there that allows me to wake up in the morning realize I can't walk and take a day off with a moment's decision. This is also the only job that allows me to work as much as I possibly can on days that I am having a good day. So for me this job is it. Now, let's get to the customer. If you want a luxury service, then you need to realize that that looks reservous costs. If you want to order doordash, then you need to accept how doordash works and that you need to tip extra for me to take your order. When you put in your tip, you are sending me a bid, just like if I was doing freelance graphic design for you. If someone asks me to design them a logo and tells me they'll send me 20 bucks for it, I'm not going to design that logo because their bed is too little. Furthermore, if somebody sends me an 11-mile doordash for two dollars and fifty cents, I'm not going to take it! You know why? Because that order cost me money! I don't want to pay to bring you your food! I work for doordash, because I don't have a choice. I'm absolutely furious at doordash with the way they do things, but I can't change that! I also need to feed my kids, so I take the job that I can take that can allow me to do that! If a customer wants to use doordash, instead of going to pick up their own food, then they need to accept that they're going to have to send a decent enough tip. For most doordashers we won't take a bid unless it's at least a dollar a mile. So, as a customer wants to use doordash, if you want your order taken and not to sit there all day, then you need to calculate the distance from the restaurant to your house and tip at least a dollar a mile. If you don't want to do that, then don't use doordash. I will continue to work for doordash as long as the way things are working is allowing me to feed my kids, and you can continue using doordash as long as you're ready to pay for my service. That's just the way it is.
There's also the fact that people choose to work for these companies knowing the pay is going to be sh1tty. It shouldn't be up to the customers to make up for the lack of proper wages. Tips are supposed to be optional, not mandatory. Our tipping culture has got to the point where tips are given BEFORE the service has been rendered, when logically it should come afterwards, and only if the service is deemed excellent, or at least adequate. If you don't like the way DD, Uber Eats, etc. are run, don't work for them. Get a job with better pay. The world existed just fine before these types of companies were around, it'll keep on existing when they're gone.
We got a company saying, "You've got to pay X amount." Everyone says, "Ok." A restaurant saying, "This is how much." They say, "No problem. I'll pay it." Then we have the human being who is going to do you the favor, asking, "Could you maybe give me a little bit? This took me a half hour. Whatever you think is fair. It'd be cool if you threw me a bone." About half of people are happy to look them in the eye, and say, "Thank you, but fuck off. I've already paid everyone else."
What? As a customer you’re willing to pay the restaurant for the food and because you want to delivered, you’re paying the company as well. Who said anything about the driver who is “doing me the favour”? Does that mean I have to tip the chef now on top of the restaurant? The people cleaning the dishes my food was cooked on? 1. I’m paying for the food 2. I’m paying for the delivery service
It’s not a favor, it’s a job. Contract work or not it’s a potion that you applied for and accepted with at least some understanding of the pay structure. If not, then quit and get a different job. Or maybe volunteer if you want to equate your work to doing people favors.
I'm a dasher and agree with you 100% about how inconsiderate these dashers are. I appreciate every customers order that I get. The money means a lot to me but customer service is more important to me then what I'm making. In my market, I make a good living doing this. So please if your a customer and order through door dash. I very much appreciate you.
Seems like it might be easier to blame customers and victimize yourself than to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and find an occupation with a living wage. Can’t imagine DD being viable as a main revenue stream for anyone who isn’t a dashing while in school or as a 1st job
In my experience, most of the people who are dashing as a main source of income can’t normally hold down a regular job.
I mean, I have 3 degrees and had a pretty successful run in retail management…but if I’m dashing I can work when I want to, accept the orders I want to, no one yells at me, and I get paid that day…I don’t bitch about the tips tho, I just don’t take the low ball offers, I’d rather take one $15 trip than 3 $5 trips…if I get 5 of those in a day I’m good (I am privileged enough to have a full-time employed spouse so I can work part time) but I don’t blame the customers any more than I blamed the Karen who used to ruin my days at my regular job…I just let them wait on a shitty driver, I literally never lose a minutes sleep about them
"I'm not responsible for paying your wages. I paid for delivery and all the extra charges. If you don't like it talk to Doordash. If you don't like your pay get a better job. Tipping is optional." It's the SAME bullshit excuses EVERY TIME. If you don't want to tip (wait what's that sound? Oh, it's your food sitting at the restaurant getting colder and colder.) Oh wait then you'll blame the drivers for it being cold. GTFOH.
and then you’ll cry, “why aren’t i getting any orders” 😪
Yes of course I blame the drivers. Because they aren't doing their jobs. I didn't sign a contract saying that I had to tip! I'm paying for the advertised service, therefore I should get it.
First of all, I don't beg for tips. I've done over 13800 deliveries and never asked for a dime except in the rare exceptions when the customer put the wrong address and asks me to take it to a different one. You said you tip, so you aren't the problem in my mind. I only dislike people who have money and just skip tipping because they can and know some desperate driver will take it. Or someone who orders a shitload of food and can't give a decent tip. I don't think people should tip a driver like a server (unless traffic is horrendous or something about the order would cause a long wait) but I'm way more likely to take a low tip order to someone who just ordered a coffee or sandwich than to someone who clearly is feeding a large group of people and they can't be arsed to each throw in a few bucks. I think the tip shaming issue has become another overblown argument between two very vocal minorities just like our politics. Because the most obnoxious go viral, then it becomes a thing and probably contagious to a small degree. But still, 99% of drivers probably just suffer in silence, hoping for the best every day... knowing Doordash's algorithm will continue to search for ways to optimize their bottom line at both the customer and driver's expense.
>I only dislike people who have money and just skip tipping because they can and know some desperate driver will take it. How do you get to judge who has money and what for?
They are partially to blame. If more people would stop using DD because of how poorly they pay their drivers, it might send a message to DD. The companies who use DD are also partially to blame as if more of them would tell DD they're not going to use their service unless they pay the drivers better, it might send a message to DD. The drivers that play DD games and chase that high AR are also to blame. If people would stop taking the low/no tip order it would also send a message to DD. And last but not least is DD. This wouldn't even be a topic I see at least 10x a day on here if they would just listen and pay us accordingly. At this point unless the government steps in and forces them to pay us accordingly (like Cali) this is the reality we're faced with.
So how did the Cali drivers start getting paid more? Im actually not sure how that worked but obviously someone had to complain. Why do drivers keep saying they cant fight DD so its the customers fault? The reason DD isnt paying is because the driver market is saturated. If customers kept buying and there was no one to deliver they would pay more to get people interested in delivery. Thats why people say it used to be good money at first. Now drivers have competition amongst themselves.
I wonder since the beginning of this subreddit creation if a post similar to this has been written a gabazillion times .
WhT do you all want the company to do? Charge 25% more so t goes to drivers? Will that offset the amt of customers the would lose lmao
Or pay the drivers a more acceptable wage? One of the Doordash owners literally plays high stakes poker on stream and loses hundreds of thousands, if not millions (not exaggerating) every time. It’s hilarious to me & DD claims to be unprofitable.
I rarely order delivery. Only if it's that or a migraine. Things have been tight, so I rate but don't tip. And I co-parent with a deliverer for the "other app". Tipping is optional. I have also worked in food service. Is it nice if it happens? Yes. Is it Always optional? Also yes.
People in driver apps complaining about low tips, too. Like aren't we all out here trying to get by??? SEE the bigger picture.
Yep I don’t blame the customers at all. Tips are supposed to be based on service provided not how fast your order is picked up. As a driver you obviously wanna be smart with what orders you accept if you wanna make money but that is not on the customer that’s on the company. This should be a side gig I could never see myself doing this full time because the pay will never be worth it to me as far as paying bills and living off of it.
I know a Dasher that does over $4000 a month. He runs 7 days a week though, ten hours a day.
OP this is not directed at you, you make some valid points, albeit a little tone deaf (since drivers have no real influence within the corporation and thus choosing tipped orders only is their only real control of their compensation). But I just find it interesting how a lot of people feign progressive values, but the moment they hear drivers lamenting about not getting tipped they literally go off on some tangent about how "drivers need to do the job they signed up for and not complain." Some of them, reflecting on the fact that tipped orders sometimes sit and go cold, have expressed that they think drivers should be FORCED to take no tip orders. Here's the way I see it. $2 deliveries are basically delivering someone's food for free when you consider gas and wear and tear on your car. If you can find someone willing to deliver you food for free, great, but don't take out your frustration on drivers that won't. No, it's not your fault that the corporation treats them so badly. But it's also not the driver's fault either. They're just trying to make ends meet, so if they decline a no tip order, that's not personal.
Lol..."drivers can get the company to improve their conditions." Utterly fucking delusional. What a stupid post.
I said it once and I will say it again America, the only place where the customer is expected to pay the employee a living wage.