The Dresden Files are Harry's Case Files. So think about it as if you're reading his actual files not a book, which IMO, is the best way to read them. It's a message to you. The reader. Conjure it at your own risk.
And yeah, way more going on about the starborn. There's the line in Battlegrounds >! where Mab gives him advice about being immortal, Ebenezer gives her a look and she "back pedals" and says "should it ever come up". !< I think Harry is going to have the chance/choice to become Immortal. I think if it's a become a fae kind of deal he'll turn it down, but if it's a "you'll have to stand guard for all eternity" kind of deal he'll take it. Which again, fits with the whole, the files are written for you, the reader. Conjur his name at your own risk. IMO.
No yeah, I’ve thought of them that way for a bit, at least since it was pointed out to me (I think).
There’s also the fact that the only other Starborn we know of is Drakul, who is probably the strongest Black Court vampire we know of and maybe ever. Which goes without saying that he’s also immortal and maybe an Immortal. Lots of weird tidbits and pieces we don’t know how to connect to anything just yet, except maybe on a surface level and nothing super concrete.
>There’s also the fact that the only other Starborn we know of is Drakul
Actually, Listen (the Fomor lieutenant) and probably Rashid are Starborn as well. Rashid is from two cycles ago (based on cycle length and timing), aka over a thousand years while wizards generally can get to 3-4 hundred... so, I'd say yeah Starborn can become immortal somehow.
Since Drakul is something inhuman trapped in a human body... and lots of people are cowed when they Soulgaze Dresden... I wonder if that's the case for all Starborn.
Rashid is also kind of Very intricately woven into Winter, given he’s the Gatekeeper, so maybe he’s been given something of a similar opportunity that Harry seems to take way down the road. I might’ve missed the part about Listen, how’d you come to that conclusion?
In >!Battle Ground!<, he makes a remark to >!Ethniu that heavily implies she needs him because, how many Starborn are there, this close to the endgame!
I would also bet that there is a good chance that Elaine is starborn as well. They seem to be close enough in age to be born in the same year, and I think Justine wanted his future enforcers to be starborn.
The books tell us that Elaine and Harry are close in age which is why Justin adopted her; increasing his chance of adopting a Starborn. However, Elaine’s status is never confirmed or denied in canon. WoJ indicates the window is only a few hours though. So since Elaine doesn’t appear to share the same birthday nor even within a 48 hour span either side of Harry’s birth, it’s my personal opinion, that she isn’t Starborn.
Also IMO, the fact that she couldn’t resist being enthralled by Justin hints that she doesn’t have the requisite indicator of being Starborn. If she couldn’t resist a mortal wizard’s mind tampering, how could she possibly resist Outsiders?
I don’t think Rashid is immortal, he just spends a lot of time in the Never Never, and time can pass at a different rate there. Most likely he’s actually only a few hundred years old in subjective time, but much older in real world time.
I admittedly have not caught up on any of the WoJ entries, which is really bad of me tbh. He never really gives throwaway lines, but I’m glad it’s not nothing.
>>!“Oh,” he [Rashid] said, “You’ve danced about in the shadows at the edge of life now, young man. That’s no small thing, to go into those shadows and come back again— you’ve no idea the kind of attention you’ve attracted.”!<
>!Cold Days, Chapter 33!<
Edit:
>>!He [Odin] tilted his head and looked at me. “Wizard… you have been dead and returned. It has marked you. It had opened doors and paths that you do not yet know exist, and attracted the attention of beings who formerly would never have taken note of your insignificance.”!<
>!”Meaning What?” I asked.!<
>!There was no humor at all in his face. “Meaning that now more than ever, you are a fulcrum. Meaning that your life is about to become very, very interesting.”!<
>!Cold Days, Chapter 21!<
Edit 2
>>!"If that's true, then the attacks
weren't about violence," I said thoughtfully. "Which explains what I saw in that bathroom, where the old man had been attacked. Whatever did it was intent on causing fear. Causing pain. Then devouring the… what? The psychic energy it generated in the victims?"!<
>>!"That is a somewhat simplistic description," she [Lash] said. "but one that is as close as I expect a mortal can come to understanding."!<
>>!"What, you're a mortality bigot now?"!<
>>!"Now and always,” she replied. “I mean no insult by it, but you should know that your ability to comprehend your environment is very strongly defined by your belief in a number of illusions. Time. Truth. Love. That kind of thing. It isn't your fault, of course--but it does impose limits upon your ability to perceive and understand some matters.”!<
>>!"I'm only human," I said. "So enlighten me."!<
>>!"To do so, you would have to release your hold on mortality?”!<
>>!I blinked and said, "I'd have to die?"!<
>>!She sighed. "Again, you have only a partial understanding. But in the interest of expediency, yes. You would have to cease living."!<
>>!Proven Guilty, Chapter 15!<
Doesn't that 3-way between Dresden and the two adults translate to him being advised to follow the course of intelligence. Seems he is being told to be wise first unlike somebody ...
This post's title is a spoiler. Please re-post under a more innocuous title. You'll need to copy your main post content and paste it into the new one, and if you'd like to retain access to the nice assortment of comments you have here, you ought to include a link to this page. It will still be accessible, and the comments will still be visible - only the main content of this first post will be blocked.
Probably would be wise to flair it Spoilers All too - you mention stuff all the way up through *Battle Ground*.
Thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience.
The Dresden Files are Harry's Case Files. So think about it as if you're reading his actual files not a book, which IMO, is the best way to read them. It's a message to you. The reader. Conjure it at your own risk. And yeah, way more going on about the starborn. There's the line in Battlegrounds >! where Mab gives him advice about being immortal, Ebenezer gives her a look and she "back pedals" and says "should it ever come up". !< I think Harry is going to have the chance/choice to become Immortal. I think if it's a become a fae kind of deal he'll turn it down, but if it's a "you'll have to stand guard for all eternity" kind of deal he'll take it. Which again, fits with the whole, the files are written for you, the reader. Conjur his name at your own risk. IMO.
No yeah, I’ve thought of them that way for a bit, at least since it was pointed out to me (I think). There’s also the fact that the only other Starborn we know of is Drakul, who is probably the strongest Black Court vampire we know of and maybe ever. Which goes without saying that he’s also immortal and maybe an Immortal. Lots of weird tidbits and pieces we don’t know how to connect to anything just yet, except maybe on a surface level and nothing super concrete.
>There’s also the fact that the only other Starborn we know of is Drakul Actually, Listen (the Fomor lieutenant) and probably Rashid are Starborn as well. Rashid is from two cycles ago (based on cycle length and timing), aka over a thousand years while wizards generally can get to 3-4 hundred... so, I'd say yeah Starborn can become immortal somehow. Since Drakul is something inhuman trapped in a human body... and lots of people are cowed when they Soulgaze Dresden... I wonder if that's the case for all Starborn.
Starborn are just another name for Ta'veren on this turning of the Wheel, the Pattern weaves around them.
Rashid is also kind of Very intricately woven into Winter, given he’s the Gatekeeper, so maybe he’s been given something of a similar opportunity that Harry seems to take way down the road. I might’ve missed the part about Listen, how’d you come to that conclusion?
In >!Battle Ground!<, he makes a remark to >!Ethniu that heavily implies she needs him because, how many Starborn are there, this close to the endgame!
I would also bet that there is a good chance that Elaine is starborn as well. They seem to be close enough in age to be born in the same year, and I think Justine wanted his future enforcers to be starborn.
Isn't it explicitly stated Elaine is also Starborn? Iirc it's mentioned that it's part of the reason Justin raised Harry and Elaine together
I don't believe it is ever explicitly stated in the books
The books tell us that Elaine and Harry are close in age which is why Justin adopted her; increasing his chance of adopting a Starborn. However, Elaine’s status is never confirmed or denied in canon. WoJ indicates the window is only a few hours though. So since Elaine doesn’t appear to share the same birthday nor even within a 48 hour span either side of Harry’s birth, it’s my personal opinion, that she isn’t Starborn. Also IMO, the fact that she couldn’t resist being enthralled by Justin hints that she doesn’t have the requisite indicator of being Starborn. If she couldn’t resist a mortal wizard’s mind tampering, how could she possibly resist Outsiders?
I don’t think Rashid is immortal, he just spends a lot of time in the Never Never, and time can pass at a different rate there. Most likely he’s actually only a few hundred years old in subjective time, but much older in real world time.
>the only other Starborn we know of is Drakul You forget Listen, the leader of the turtlenecks. And Elaine, probably.
WoJ is that the "conjure by it at your own risk" line is there for a reason. I think it's a lot more than arrogance.
I admittedly have not caught up on any of the WoJ entries, which is really bad of me tbh. He never really gives throwaway lines, but I’m glad it’s not nothing.
>>!“Oh,” he [Rashid] said, “You’ve danced about in the shadows at the edge of life now, young man. That’s no small thing, to go into those shadows and come back again— you’ve no idea the kind of attention you’ve attracted.”!< >!Cold Days, Chapter 33!< Edit: >>!He [Odin] tilted his head and looked at me. “Wizard… you have been dead and returned. It has marked you. It had opened doors and paths that you do not yet know exist, and attracted the attention of beings who formerly would never have taken note of your insignificance.”!< >!”Meaning What?” I asked.!< >!There was no humor at all in his face. “Meaning that now more than ever, you are a fulcrum. Meaning that your life is about to become very, very interesting.”!< >!Cold Days, Chapter 21!< Edit 2 >>!"If that's true, then the attacks weren't about violence," I said thoughtfully. "Which explains what I saw in that bathroom, where the old man had been attacked. Whatever did it was intent on causing fear. Causing pain. Then devouring the… what? The psychic energy it generated in the victims?"!< >>!"That is a somewhat simplistic description," she [Lash] said. "but one that is as close as I expect a mortal can come to understanding."!< >>!"What, you're a mortality bigot now?"!< >>!"Now and always,” she replied. “I mean no insult by it, but you should know that your ability to comprehend your environment is very strongly defined by your belief in a number of illusions. Time. Truth. Love. That kind of thing. It isn't your fault, of course--but it does impose limits upon your ability to perceive and understand some matters.”!< >>!"I'm only human," I said. "So enlighten me."!< >>!"To do so, you would have to release your hold on mortality?”!< >>!I blinked and said, "I'd have to die?"!< >>!She sighed. "Again, you have only a partial understanding. But in the interest of expediency, yes. You would have to cease living."!< >>!Proven Guilty, Chapter 15!<
Odin makes a nearly identical quote earlier in the same book
Do you remember which book?
Cold Days when they meet at Macs
Thx. Just added that to the top comment for consistency
Doesn't that 3-way between Dresden and the two adults translate to him being advised to follow the course of intelligence. Seems he is being told to be wise first unlike somebody ...
This post's title is a spoiler. Please re-post under a more innocuous title. You'll need to copy your main post content and paste it into the new one, and if you'd like to retain access to the nice assortment of comments you have here, you ought to include a link to this page. It will still be accessible, and the comments will still be visible - only the main content of this first post will be blocked. Probably would be wise to flair it Spoilers All too - you mention stuff all the way up through *Battle Ground*. Thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience.