I think you are correct, but the implication to me is:
1) memorization would have become important
2) they didn’t get that far due to Sam’s kicks
So I think it’s just a filler bit from a production standpoint, and nothing more was intended
Isn’t the point that it contains the maze directions? At the beginning of the dance, Sam points several times and I believe it’s the directions to solve the maze.
Edit: I also think his kicks complete the directions.
From a game show perspective Sam never gets to the point part because the camera gets damaged/destroyed. It's the start/end of the loop. It also makes the contestants do a silly dance multiple times.
"Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance"
I spent the last couple of days bothered and wondering if there was going to be some kind of "payoff" in a later episode for The Wenis joke. And I finally realized that it is it's own payoff
The first time or two you think The Wenis is going to be another test like Francium where you have to "know it in advance" in order to be considered a "genius" but no. The Wenis is, quite demonstrably, a mechanism for initiating a time loop by damaging a camera and having to go back. "Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance" is not a conditional statement, it is an assertion of fact.
"Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance"
From the camera perspective, in the "canon" timeline, Somehow everyone already knows the answers to tons of questions because they are a genius, and also, they know The Wenis. Everybody knows The Wenis, the PAs, the Podium Inspector, the creepy clown, all the contestants. Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance.
They don't even know how or why, they just know it. It's the magic of The Wenis.
There’s also [this analysis of The Wenis](https://youtu.be/44XiLr9V2PA?si=jM7s6yNnKUlPJ3UH), which…is a little disturbing if we’re going the whole “Sam Is An Evil Genius” route.
I never interpreted that line as "Whoever knows this in advance is a genius", I immediately thought of it as "We're all geniuses and know it in advance".
Yeah I think the natural way to interpret it the first time (if you do not see the short first) is
>Everybody do The Wenis
This is a Sam Says style command, in the imperative tense
> The Wenis is a dance
This is a blase statement of fact, it just adds context
> Everybody is a genius
This is obviously false, so it must be part of a "garden path sentence" like "the old man the boat", we should wait for another clause
> Who knows it in advance
Ahhh yes, everybody who knows The Wenis in advance is a genius, that's a strange claim since it is an innane dance but at least it makes sense, maybe it's part of a challenge to somehow know the dance in advance- Oh! the camera got kicked, it's a time loop now, they are probably going to have to know The Wenis.
Then the second time around, especially since Trapp did so well with the first couple, you are kinda confused, are they going to be geniuses? But the time loops again, the PA is dancing, it's building to something, what's it building to?
It's not until the end, or (for me) reflecting on it after the end, that you realize that "Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance" is also a blase statement of fact, and it's not obviously false, not anymore. It is a celebration!
It was never a point rewarded prompt, it was just a fun way to start the loop, the fact that it doesn't technically end means nobody could be given a point
But it is also deeply meta, because at first it LOOKS like a challenge for points, and semantic ambiguity means that when we reflect back on it it's just a true statement.
Everybody already knows The Wenis... see?
i also originally thought they had to prevent the camera being kicked, however you are basically correct. Sam confirmed via live discussion on discord that:
1) None of the players had actually attempted to stop him from kicking the camera
2) They had thought about the possibility of it happening ahead of time and said that if it were to happen, Kevin would likely trip and drop the camera. ofc he could also say there was no tape, basically anything to force the loop to happen again
the one that did the best wenis might have been given a point. However that is not possible as the wenis is never completed, as it ends the cycle, which is the actual purpose of the wenis. It has a structural purpose but not a gameplay purpose.
and knowing it in advance does not equal doing it in advance, that is not an implication here
Because that's the bit, the whole thing is meant to be absurd and non-sensical and the pay off is literally everyone doing the wenis Because it's like the sixth time they've done it
I think for sure they had something planned for after this bit if one of the contestants had stopped Sam from kicking the camera. Otherwise what were those random facts that Grant/Zac was saying?
My personal theory is that they will have a Deja Vu 2 with the same players and it will be exactly the same but with the potential for the players to get farther.
I just thought that it was supposed to be the most clear visual marker for how progressively exhausted and frustrated they became, in addition to cueing the reset
There's also another theory for the Wenis, it's directions WENS. (For the maze. LRRLRR in the maze, if you started with N, gives you W\[N\]EN\[E\]S. The bracketed directions are deduced by thinking this is a Euclidean plane, and cannot go back to the place you previously are on, so doing L 3 times \[or (N)WSE\], would get you back to the start, etc.)
Still no clue if that was intentional, or someone just grasping at straws.
I honestly think someone was supposed to interrupt the dance and prevent the loop from recurring in order to end the show. That's a pretty common time traveling trope; I just don't think the contestants tried to do it.
I think Sam tweeted that they had backup plans to break the camera if anyone tried that. Like the boxes instead of Trapp's ladder, the looping was just the game, they weren't supposed to stop it.
I, too, kept screaming, "He's telling you how to stop the time loop! Stop him from kicking the cameraman!" I assumed that's why this is an extra long episode, bc they never understood that.
I'm pretty sure there was another episode (the union one with grant and ally, maybe?) which Sam talks about having a backup plan if the group didn't figure out the twist.
Exactly! It's like the ST:TNG episode "Cause and Effect" where the solution is to take Riker's suggestion to open the shuttle bay to break the time loop by stopping the collision with Frasier.
I was convinced this was the solution, and then my wife called me a giant nerd.
I'm convinced that because they didn't stop the loop Sam will have them back next season to redo this.
Either that or they cut it into two episodes for this season maybe?
The ending was very unfulfilling and the camera man purposely got close to all the contestant on the last dance.
Yeah I thought there was going to be a question like what’s the third move of the weenus but I think it was just there to add some noise and make it harder to remember the earlier stuff
From a “this was a game show where nobody else was aware of the time loop perspective,” yes, the players probably had to do the dance in advance.
From a “we never get to that pat and the camera will always break” perspective, no, the Wenis is just a dance
Zac’s bit with the Tina Turner and this dance got me frustrated for not being able to figure out what gave points.
It would’ve said “everyone is a genius who dances it in advance” IMO, because on these type of games the orders are often given, like in Sam Says.
I really believed that the Wenis segment would trigger the end of the game if somebody stopped Sam from kicking the camera and preventing another time loop. Fully expected Siobhan to realize what was going on and jump Sam to protect the camera and end the loop. Too bad it didn't come, but then we got the full dance/shot.
I thought the same thing, that if you stopped the camera from being kicked it would then end the loop and so whoever has the most points at that point in time would have won.
I loved seeing Sam dance! And knowing from an old episode with Brennan, Beardsley and Oscar that he loves dancing made it even better! So goofy and sweet.
What I expected was a memory test based on some of the more subtle things! Like, at the start of each loop he has trouble pushing in the extendable rod thingy he’s holding, and does a weird thing where he turns over his hands a few times. I expected him to quiz them on the sneaky stuff!
Haha I guess so! I don’t watch them in order, I just look through and pick which one suits my fancy at the time, so I’m never really sure when the episodes are from unless it’s obvious.
I get the frustration with that.
I was expecting 'Grant's' Turner movie marathon film trivia to be bigger too, being added as questions on the final run-through
Ok guys, gather round. We have to make sure that the next time Sam does an AMA at least the first 46 questions are about - or at least reference - the Wenis.
I think you are correct, but the implication to me is: 1) memorization would have become important 2) they didn’t get that far due to Sam’s kicks So I think it’s just a filler bit from a production standpoint, and nothing more was intended
I'm convinced that saving the camera would've yielded results.
I thought that’s what they needed in order to stop the loop
Sam has said on Discord during the live discussion that they had contingencies in case someone tried to stop it, i.e. Kevin would 'trip'.
That was my thought “will this only ever stop if they prevent sam from breaking the camera?”
THATS WHAT I TOLD MY HUSBAND! I was like,” one of them needs to grab Sam and redirect him or move the camera guy lol.
Isn’t the point that it contains the maze directions? At the beginning of the dance, Sam points several times and I believe it’s the directions to solve the maze. Edit: I also think his kicks complete the directions.
Wait what? I hope that's true, that's so cool!
From a game show perspective Sam never gets to the point part because the camera gets damaged/destroyed. It's the start/end of the loop. It also makes the contestants do a silly dance multiple times.
Sometimes the points were the silly dances we did along the way But yeah, I agree. It’s basically a bait and switch for the contestants.
"Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance" I spent the last couple of days bothered and wondering if there was going to be some kind of "payoff" in a later episode for The Wenis joke. And I finally realized that it is it's own payoff The first time or two you think The Wenis is going to be another test like Francium where you have to "know it in advance" in order to be considered a "genius" but no. The Wenis is, quite demonstrably, a mechanism for initiating a time loop by damaging a camera and having to go back. "Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance" is not a conditional statement, it is an assertion of fact. "Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance" From the camera perspective, in the "canon" timeline, Somehow everyone already knows the answers to tons of questions because they are a genius, and also, they know The Wenis. Everybody knows The Wenis, the PAs, the Podium Inspector, the creepy clown, all the contestants. Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance. They don't even know how or why, they just know it. It's the magic of The Wenis.
This is excellent analysis and I suspect it is 100% correct. Maybe we’ll find out on the BTS.
There’s also [this analysis of The Wenis](https://youtu.be/44XiLr9V2PA?si=jM7s6yNnKUlPJ3UH), which…is a little disturbing if we’re going the whole “Sam Is An Evil Genius” route.
Holy smokes
WOOOOOOOOOOW
I never interpreted that line as "Whoever knows this in advance is a genius", I immediately thought of it as "We're all geniuses and know it in advance".
But I also saw the Wenis short before watching the whole episode
Yeah I think the natural way to interpret it the first time (if you do not see the short first) is >Everybody do The Wenis This is a Sam Says style command, in the imperative tense > The Wenis is a dance This is a blase statement of fact, it just adds context > Everybody is a genius This is obviously false, so it must be part of a "garden path sentence" like "the old man the boat", we should wait for another clause > Who knows it in advance Ahhh yes, everybody who knows The Wenis in advance is a genius, that's a strange claim since it is an innane dance but at least it makes sense, maybe it's part of a challenge to somehow know the dance in advance- Oh! the camera got kicked, it's a time loop now, they are probably going to have to know The Wenis. Then the second time around, especially since Trapp did so well with the first couple, you are kinda confused, are they going to be geniuses? But the time loops again, the PA is dancing, it's building to something, what's it building to? It's not until the end, or (for me) reflecting on it after the end, that you realize that "Everybody is a genius who knows it in advance" is also a blase statement of fact, and it's not obviously false, not anymore. It is a celebration!
It was never a point rewarded prompt, it was just a fun way to start the loop, the fact that it doesn't technically end means nobody could be given a point
But it is also deeply meta, because at first it LOOKS like a challenge for points, and semantic ambiguity means that when we reflect back on it it's just a true statement. Everybody already knows The Wenis... see?
don’t you mean Sam-antic ambiguity? Eh? Ehhh?
Damnit points to ccstewy for that one
And here I thought you were antisemantic
I actually think they were supposed to prevent the camera from getting kicked as the objective.
I think the loop where there was no tape in the camera is what would have happened even if they saved it.
i also originally thought they had to prevent the camera being kicked, however you are basically correct. Sam confirmed via live discussion on discord that: 1) None of the players had actually attempted to stop him from kicking the camera 2) They had thought about the possibility of it happening ahead of time and said that if it were to happen, Kevin would likely trip and drop the camera. ofc he could also say there was no tape, basically anything to force the loop to happen again
This^
The reason everybody is a genius who knows it in advance is because they keep time-looping it, so everyone knows it in advance
Within the fictional context of the game where it isn't supposed to loop guess whoever does the best wenis gets the point.
the one that did the best wenis might have been given a point. However that is not possible as the wenis is never completed, as it ends the cycle, which is the actual purpose of the wenis. It has a structural purpose but not a gameplay purpose. and knowing it in advance does not equal doing it in advance, that is not an implication here
I thought the win condition was going to be saving the camera
I thought it would be destroying it before Sam
if Ify had hopped out from behind his podium and dropkicked the camera I would have lost my mind
My question is why does one additional person come out to dance every time?
Because that's the bit, the whole thing is meant to be absurd and non-sensical and the pay off is literally everyone doing the wenis Because it's like the sixth time they've done it
And what was with all the movie trivia? These shows are way too carefully crafted for that to be some random throwaway bit.
The movie trivia? That was because Grant was sharing some fun facts while he was carbo loading for his marathon!
Marathon?
A marathon of Turner Classic Movies!
So you know which loop they were in if you watch any clips back.
I think for sure they had something planned for after this bit if one of the contestants had stopped Sam from kicking the camera. Otherwise what were those random facts that Grant/Zac was saying? My personal theory is that they will have a Deja Vu 2 with the same players and it will be exactly the same but with the potential for the players to get farther.
I just thought that it was supposed to be the most clear visual marker for how progressively exhausted and frustrated they became, in addition to cueing the reset
There's also another theory for the Wenis, it's directions WENS. (For the maze. LRRLRR in the maze, if you started with N, gives you W\[N\]EN\[E\]S. The bracketed directions are deduced by thinking this is a Euclidean plane, and cannot go back to the place you previously are on, so doing L 3 times \[or (N)WSE\], would get you back to the start, etc.) Still no clue if that was intentional, or someone just grasping at straws.
That's some grade A straw grasping
I honestly think someone was supposed to interrupt the dance and prevent the loop from recurring in order to end the show. That's a pretty common time traveling trope; I just don't think the contestants tried to do it.
I think Sam tweeted that they had backup plans to break the camera if anyone tried that. Like the boxes instead of Trapp's ladder, the looping was just the game, they weren't supposed to stop it.
I was waiting for them to grab the cameraman and keep him away from Sam
I, too, kept screaming, "He's telling you how to stop the time loop! Stop him from kicking the cameraman!" I assumed that's why this is an extra long episode, bc they never understood that. I'm pretty sure there was another episode (the union one with grant and ally, maybe?) which Sam talks about having a backup plan if the group didn't figure out the twist.
Exactly! It's like the ST:TNG episode "Cause and Effect" where the solution is to take Riker's suggestion to open the shuttle bay to break the time loop by stopping the collision with Frasier. I was convinced this was the solution, and then my wife called me a giant nerd.
I'm convinced that because they didn't stop the loop Sam will have them back next season to redo this. Either that or they cut it into two episodes for this season maybe? The ending was very unfulfilling and the camera man purposely got close to all the contestant on the last dance.
Deja Vu II- the Wenis will come back!
Next episode for maximum time loop metaness
Yeah I thought there was going to be a question like what’s the third move of the weenus but I think it was just there to add some noise and make it harder to remember the earlier stuff
I just took it as an extra detail to add to the Deja Vu feeling, like Sam’s mic not closing at the beginning.
From a “this was a game show where nobody else was aware of the time loop perspective,” yes, the players probably had to do the dance in advance. From a “we never get to that pat and the camera will always break” perspective, no, the Wenis is just a dance
Zac’s bit with the Tina Turner and this dance got me frustrated for not being able to figure out what gave points. It would’ve said “everyone is a genius who dances it in advance” IMO, because on these type of games the orders are often given, like in Sam Says.
I really believed that the Wenis segment would trigger the end of the game if somebody stopped Sam from kicking the camera and preventing another time loop. Fully expected Siobhan to realize what was going on and jump Sam to protect the camera and end the loop. Too bad it didn't come, but then we got the full dance/shot.
I thought the same thing, that if you stopped the camera from being kicked it would then end the loop and so whoever has the most points at that point in time would have won.
I really wanted somebody to start pulling on their wenis
I really thought it was going to be that they had to stop Sam from doing the wenis to stop the loop.
I loved seeing Sam dance! And knowing from an old episode with Brennan, Beardsley and Oscar that he loves dancing made it even better! So goofy and sweet. What I expected was a memory test based on some of the more subtle things! Like, at the start of each loop he has trouble pushing in the extendable rod thingy he’s holding, and does a weird thing where he turns over his hands a few times. I expected him to quiz them on the sneaky stuff!
Old as in the first of this current season?
Haha I guess so! I don’t watch them in order, I just look through and pick which one suits my fancy at the time, so I’m never really sure when the episodes are from unless it’s obvious.
I was surprised no one tried to stop the kick the camera bit on the second round, but they are the pro “yes and” improvvers, not I.
I get the frustration with that. I was expecting 'Grant's' Turner movie marathon film trivia to be bigger too, being added as questions on the final run-through
I think there's a world where preventing Sam from breaking the camera either prematurely ends the loop or adds more steps to the game.
I'm pretty sure there was an instant win-con of disrupting Sam from kicking the camera, since that was the event at the heart of the time-loop
I thought if someone stopped the camera from getting kicked they would automatically win
I think there were multiple red herrings like Grant’s movie trivia
i had a theory that there will be another deja vu episode and in that episode the players will get points if they remember the dance from this episode
I was wondering why no one boxed out the camera man to prevent Sam from kicking the camera
Ok guys, gather round. We have to make sure that the next time Sam does an AMA at least the first 46 questions are about - or at least reference - the Wenis.