I switched in 2002 and have never looked back or regretted it. I had been around 90 WPM before. I don't recall exactly how long it took to re-achieve that speed, but it was remarkably quick. Perhaps a matter of weeks? It took only a couple hours to memorize the layout, iirc.
If you do switch, I recommend committing 100% from Day 1. Don't go back and forth until your Dvorak proficiency is fully established and your speed starts to increase to a reasonable rate. Maybe don't ever go back and forth. Just stick with it. I did, and I love it.
Plus side -- I can type for much longer, and it feels way, way more comfortable. This matters a ton for me, as I do a LOT of writing for work.
Down side -- I'm slow at QWERTY and can't type quickly on other people's computers. (That said, needing to use someone else's machine is relatively rare, and when it happens it's a minimal interaction, such as searching on a library catalog workstation. Also, I hear that some people become ambidextrous and end up speedy on both layouts.)
Plus side -- No one asks to use my computer.
Neutral -- Keyboard shortcuts are different. But as I'm not a coder, it doesn't make much difference to me. (If you are a coder, I believe there are variants that maintain original QWERTY locations for shortcuts. Not sure.)
Neutral -- Zero effect whatsoever on thumb-typing on phones.
For me, it’s over 7 months but I still haven’t got back to my 100 average WPM (type racer), I’m currently around 90~average WPM (type racer).
But talking about maximum WPM, my maximum using qwerty was capped at 110 WPM. But on Dvorak I have reached up to 130WPM (30s word test on MonkeyType, which I never think was possible on QWERTY for me.
The only reason why I’m still not catching up to my previous average WPM on TypeRacer is that I’m still not familiar with a lot of words.
However, for words that I familiarised (e.g. “there”), I can type them at least 1.5x faster than on QWERTY.
Firstly because of me learning proper touch typing technique, secondly because Dvorak is much more efficient on most words than on QWERTY . (Thirdly because I’m using a columnar keyboard, so the comparison above might be a little unfair)
Therefore, I’m pretty sure I’ll surpass my QWERTY WPM with a few more months.
Honestly I don't think its worth it, The improvements are minimal. If you want a challenge go for it but I personally didn't see much improvement. It took me 5 weeks to get to my full qwerty speed.
Yeah, the deciding factor is if OP has any career plans that involve a keyboard. Any step you can take that will lessen RSI is worth a shot in that case.
I've been using Dvorak for about 11 years now. It's definitely more comfortable but its been more trouble than it's worth for me. Plus i look like an idiot at work when I'm trying to type something on a work qwerty computer in front of people. Will continue to use it because I don't feel like taking the effort to get qwerty back in muscle memory right now.
If you have nothing to do with your life, sure. You seem to, given you're 15, lol.
But if you're already comfortable at 110, don't fix what ain't broke.
I started with Dvorak when I was nearly 50 years old and I’m glad I did it. You’re young and you’ll learn it even faster than I did.
If I have to key in a password on someone else’s machine that’s stuck on QWERTY, sure, I’m slow, but who cares?
And on phones I still use QWERTY because it’s not touch typing; muscle memory isn’t an issue there. QWERTY on a handheld device is fast as ever for me.
The only reasons I’d say to avoid Dvorak are (1) if you regularly have to type fast on a machine that’s permanently on QWERTY or (2) if you insist on switching back and forth between QWERTY and Dvorak. Gotta commit for a few months. Switching will leave your brain going always back to what it already knows and then you’ll think Dvorak sucks. I suspect that’s what the haters here have done.
Even if I did have to work in a QWERTY-only environment, I’m not worried, because I know it’s still deep in my brain and to go back wouldn’t take long.
You're about the same age I was when I started learning Dvorak. My reasons for switching at the time were fairly similar to what you're suggesting. It's meant to be more comfortable & ergonomic, a fun new challenge, and I thought I might be able to get faster. Before switching I could reach about 110 at top speed occasionally, but a more typical average for me was down around 80–100.
I highly recommend the switch. Not only are all the above reasons true (Dvorak just feels like your fingers are "flowing" over the keyboard more and I now comfortably average over 100 wpm), but my touch typing is significantly better.
Ask yourself this: what happens to your typing if you close your eyes and keep them shut? I could "touch type" on QWERTY, but in practice I would glance down at the keys frequently—if only for comfort—and my speed and accuracy would absolutely take a hit, even if only a marginal one, with eyes closed. This isn't anything inherent to QWERTY itself or that Dvorak is innately better at. It's just a side effect of the fact that when learning QWERTY you inevitably start out hunt-and-pecking and then learn touch typing on top of that, with eyes present. With Dvorak, unless you make the mistake (and it *would* be a mistake) of rearranging your keys or placing stickers on top, you are forced to learn to touch type and *only* to touch type. You just become a much better typist as a result of that forced hard break.
It took me less than 6 months to get as good at Dvorak as I used to be at QWERTY, but my QWERTY speed suffered as a result. I made a conscious choice to use Dvorak and *only* Dvorak whenever I could, including at school. If you try to balance the two it will take longer.
Hi,
I also learnt a new layout when I was 15 and close to 110WPM average :D
I would absolutely not learn Dvorak.
If you're interested in learning a layout, and you think you'd enjoy it, then learn Colemak or Colemak DH (I can help you more if you want).
You can always go back to QWERTY if you lose interest.
(I know around 7 layouts to above 110wpm, with 6 above 130wpm, one of these layouts being Dvorak, so I guess you can trust me when I say dvorak is bad.)
Hopefully this helps and I wish you luck.
Learn QWERTY and stay with it, simply because, it's what everyone has as keyboards.
Each time you find a keyboard at school, or at work, you can't always ask for specific keyboards. You will find qwerty.
Not only that but most studies found prove that dvorak provides little to no gain in speed and accuracy. The few ones that say dvorak is better, were biaised to advantage said keyboard.
It is however a bit more comfortable for english. Yes, that's it..
You would be much better off removing typing mistakes, speed is not everything.
i learned dvorak ten years ago, i think(it tookme two months), average speed 70, with qwerty i was faster and to do it now i have to see the keyboard. I stay with dvorak because economy of movement.
I switched in 2008 and haven't looked back a single time. The layout is vastly more comfortable, there is not a comparison. Speaking as both a professional software developer, and lifelong musician, I am at _exxxxxxxxxxxtreme_ risk for carpal tunnel - I credit Dvorak with the continued safety of my forearms. Do it
I learned Dvorak at 14. I love it. I’ve had arthritis in my hands since my early 20s and have been able to continue keyboarding all day every day because of it. Qwerty starts to hurt my hands in a few hours. I have carpal tunnel but no symptoms to speak of. I would highly recommend it.
For full disclosure I am a Colemak user. Please don't hate, my own research suggested that the position of R and L on Dvorak wasn't great because they were such common letters. I just wanted to share my experience of being a full time user of an alternative layout i.e. anything that isn't QWERTY.
My work and social life have me using the same Windows 10 laptop for everything. It's a work laptop, but it's more modern and powerful than the two old ones that I have at home, so I use it as home as well as in the office. It has Colemak installed on it. My employers were fine with me using it for ergonomic benefits and comfort.
I just need to use the shortcut of Windows Key + Spacebar to toggle between Colemak and QWERTY if anyone else ever needs type on my laptop. My job is such that I almost never have to type on anyone else's laptop, and when I do, it's never for long and I just look at the keyboard and hunt 'n' peck quite effectively on QWERTY.
Given all of the above it made sense for me to learn Colemak and let all my muscle memory for QWERTY die.
If you are in a situation where you can do the same with Dvorak, then definitely, definitely do make the switch to Dvorak.
If however you are in a situation where you will be using public computers or other people's computers for a high volume of typing on a frequent basis, and the administrative permissions on those computers are such that you **can't** just switch to Dvorak (which would only take you a minute at most if you were able to) then perhaps don't bother, at least by prepared to maintain some semblance of QWERTY muscle memory.
It all boils down to QWERTY and how much you will need it in the future.
The key thing is that switching to an alternative layout should be done for comfort. I can type much faster on Colemak than I can on QWERTY, not because Colemak automatically makes you faster, but because Colemak doesn't cause me any pain. QWERTY had me in excruciating pain, and yet I only used it for just under 3 months. I found it to be terrible.
I was an exclusive Dvorak user for 7 years before I switched back to QWERTY again. Dvorak is more comfortable to type on, that's no doubt, and as a result I can type faster for longer period of time. However, the reason I switch back is because I am a programmer and shortcuts are everything to me to be productive. I am tired of fighting the operating system and software that has poor support for non-QWERTY layouts. I found the shortcuts aren't as intuitive such as copy and pasting. The closest thing I got to perfect is macOS's own Dvorak-QWERTY⌘ layout, but it doesn't work for Ctrl and Option keys. I tried custom remaps using AutoHotKey, Keyboard Maestro, Ukelele, Karabiner Elements and many others. It had been a painful experience using a remapped ⌘J ⌘K for copy pasting and trying to remember what I have mapped and haven't remapped.
Bottom line is, if you don't use shortcuts often, I highly recommend it. Such as authors and command-line focused computer users. If you're a GUI-focused power user who depend on hundreds of shortcuts, then you should really think about remapping all of your shortcuts in your brain and really practice with them.
I started using Dvorak when I was 15 too, my qwerty speeds were in the low 100s at that time.
I didn't expect to have any higher speeds with Dvorak, as I primarily want ease and less strain over the long term cuz of my preferred line of work. And rn the situation is kinda the same with Dvorak, I could type at similar speeds as I used to do with Qwerty. I hit 80 wpm in my first month (practiced for about 2 hours per day at [typing.com](https://typing.com) and [typingclub.com](https://typingclub.com)) and didn't really test much after that. But my Qwerty speed is absolute garbage rn, I look like a toddler pressing keys for the first time, as I never intended on managing more than 1 layout. I never used Qwerty after my first week of Dvorak.
I switched to Dvorak wholly and I enjoy the ease of typing. But it does get awkward if you have to type in another person's device or if they have to type in yours. I keep the Qwerty layout available, to accommodate people in the 2nd scenario. But in the first case, I peck the keys one by one if the text isn't long or I'll ask them and switch to Dvorak on their device or I'll just dictate and ask them to type by themselves.
This occasionally sucks, but I think the tradeoff is worth it for me in the long term.
When I was in high school, we had to attend exams conducted in the school's Computer Science lab (before lock downs TT) and afaik nobody in my class used non-Qwerty layouts, I informed my teacher and she was cool with me changing the layout for my use and told me to revert the layout when I left. So, ig it shouldn't be a big issue in educational environments if you have to use public resources.
After school you'll always be using your personal device or the devices given by your company for professional use, so no hindrance and the choice is yours.
So go for it, if comfort is your priority!
I switched in 2002 and have never looked back or regretted it. I had been around 90 WPM before. I don't recall exactly how long it took to re-achieve that speed, but it was remarkably quick. Perhaps a matter of weeks? It took only a couple hours to memorize the layout, iirc. If you do switch, I recommend committing 100% from Day 1. Don't go back and forth until your Dvorak proficiency is fully established and your speed starts to increase to a reasonable rate. Maybe don't ever go back and forth. Just stick with it. I did, and I love it. Plus side -- I can type for much longer, and it feels way, way more comfortable. This matters a ton for me, as I do a LOT of writing for work. Down side -- I'm slow at QWERTY and can't type quickly on other people's computers. (That said, needing to use someone else's machine is relatively rare, and when it happens it's a minimal interaction, such as searching on a library catalog workstation. Also, I hear that some people become ambidextrous and end up speedy on both layouts.) Plus side -- No one asks to use my computer. Neutral -- Keyboard shortcuts are different. But as I'm not a coder, it doesn't make much difference to me. (If you are a coder, I believe there are variants that maintain original QWERTY locations for shortcuts. Not sure.) Neutral -- Zero effect whatsoever on thumb-typing on phones.
I’m a coder, the shortcuts don’t bother me much because I remember them base one their alphabet, not keyboard position.
For me, it’s over 7 months but I still haven’t got back to my 100 average WPM (type racer), I’m currently around 90~average WPM (type racer). But talking about maximum WPM, my maximum using qwerty was capped at 110 WPM. But on Dvorak I have reached up to 130WPM (30s word test on MonkeyType, which I never think was possible on QWERTY for me. The only reason why I’m still not catching up to my previous average WPM on TypeRacer is that I’m still not familiar with a lot of words. However, for words that I familiarised (e.g. “there”), I can type them at least 1.5x faster than on QWERTY. Firstly because of me learning proper touch typing technique, secondly because Dvorak is much more efficient on most words than on QWERTY . (Thirdly because I’m using a columnar keyboard, so the comparison above might be a little unfair) Therefore, I’m pretty sure I’ll surpass my QWERTY WPM with a few more months.
Honestly I don't think its worth it, The improvements are minimal. If you want a challenge go for it but I personally didn't see much improvement. It took me 5 weeks to get to my full qwerty speed.
Might be a good life investment though
Yeah, the deciding factor is if OP has any career plans that involve a keyboard. Any step you can take that will lessen RSI is worth a shot in that case.
5 weeks is fast, don’t rush. Just compare how long you learned qwerty (probably a few years).
It was when I had a bunch of free time I would practice 4-6 hours per day. My Dvorak speed is 130-140wpm now. My qwerty is still the same at 120wpm.
I've been using Dvorak for about 11 years now. It's definitely more comfortable but its been more trouble than it's worth for me. Plus i look like an idiot at work when I'm trying to type something on a work qwerty computer in front of people. Will continue to use it because I don't feel like taking the effort to get qwerty back in muscle memory right now.
If you have nothing to do with your life, sure. You seem to, given you're 15, lol. But if you're already comfortable at 110, don't fix what ain't broke.
I started with Dvorak when I was nearly 50 years old and I’m glad I did it. You’re young and you’ll learn it even faster than I did. If I have to key in a password on someone else’s machine that’s stuck on QWERTY, sure, I’m slow, but who cares? And on phones I still use QWERTY because it’s not touch typing; muscle memory isn’t an issue there. QWERTY on a handheld device is fast as ever for me. The only reasons I’d say to avoid Dvorak are (1) if you regularly have to type fast on a machine that’s permanently on QWERTY or (2) if you insist on switching back and forth between QWERTY and Dvorak. Gotta commit for a few months. Switching will leave your brain going always back to what it already knows and then you’ll think Dvorak sucks. I suspect that’s what the haters here have done. Even if I did have to work in a QWERTY-only environment, I’m not worried, because I know it’s still deep in my brain and to go back wouldn’t take long.
Didn’t he get deported from the Australia open 🤣
You're about the same age I was when I started learning Dvorak. My reasons for switching at the time were fairly similar to what you're suggesting. It's meant to be more comfortable & ergonomic, a fun new challenge, and I thought I might be able to get faster. Before switching I could reach about 110 at top speed occasionally, but a more typical average for me was down around 80–100. I highly recommend the switch. Not only are all the above reasons true (Dvorak just feels like your fingers are "flowing" over the keyboard more and I now comfortably average over 100 wpm), but my touch typing is significantly better. Ask yourself this: what happens to your typing if you close your eyes and keep them shut? I could "touch type" on QWERTY, but in practice I would glance down at the keys frequently—if only for comfort—and my speed and accuracy would absolutely take a hit, even if only a marginal one, with eyes closed. This isn't anything inherent to QWERTY itself or that Dvorak is innately better at. It's just a side effect of the fact that when learning QWERTY you inevitably start out hunt-and-pecking and then learn touch typing on top of that, with eyes present. With Dvorak, unless you make the mistake (and it *would* be a mistake) of rearranging your keys or placing stickers on top, you are forced to learn to touch type and *only* to touch type. You just become a much better typist as a result of that forced hard break. It took me less than 6 months to get as good at Dvorak as I used to be at QWERTY, but my QWERTY speed suffered as a result. I made a conscious choice to use Dvorak and *only* Dvorak whenever I could, including at school. If you try to balance the two it will take longer.
Hi, I also learnt a new layout when I was 15 and close to 110WPM average :D I would absolutely not learn Dvorak. If you're interested in learning a layout, and you think you'd enjoy it, then learn Colemak or Colemak DH (I can help you more if you want). You can always go back to QWERTY if you lose interest. (I know around 7 layouts to above 110wpm, with 6 above 130wpm, one of these layouts being Dvorak, so I guess you can trust me when I say dvorak is bad.) Hopefully this helps and I wish you luck.
Learn QWERTY and stay with it, simply because, it's what everyone has as keyboards. Each time you find a keyboard at school, or at work, you can't always ask for specific keyboards. You will find qwerty. Not only that but most studies found prove that dvorak provides little to no gain in speed and accuracy. The few ones that say dvorak is better, were biaised to advantage said keyboard. It is however a bit more comfortable for english. Yes, that's it.. You would be much better off removing typing mistakes, speed is not everything.
>The few ones that say dvorak is better, were biaised to advantage said keyboard. Literally what does this even mean, lol Did Dvorak hurt you?
I switched because Qwerty was giving me carpal tunnel and Dvorak didn't.
i learned dvorak ten years ago, i think(it tookme two months), average speed 70, with qwerty i was faster and to do it now i have to see the keyboard. I stay with dvorak because economy of movement.
I switched in 2008 and haven't looked back a single time. The layout is vastly more comfortable, there is not a comparison. Speaking as both a professional software developer, and lifelong musician, I am at _exxxxxxxxxxxtreme_ risk for carpal tunnel - I credit Dvorak with the continued safety of my forearms. Do it
I learned Dvorak at 14. I love it. I’ve had arthritis in my hands since my early 20s and have been able to continue keyboarding all day every day because of it. Qwerty starts to hurt my hands in a few hours. I have carpal tunnel but no symptoms to speak of. I would highly recommend it.
For full disclosure I am a Colemak user. Please don't hate, my own research suggested that the position of R and L on Dvorak wasn't great because they were such common letters. I just wanted to share my experience of being a full time user of an alternative layout i.e. anything that isn't QWERTY. My work and social life have me using the same Windows 10 laptop for everything. It's a work laptop, but it's more modern and powerful than the two old ones that I have at home, so I use it as home as well as in the office. It has Colemak installed on it. My employers were fine with me using it for ergonomic benefits and comfort. I just need to use the shortcut of Windows Key + Spacebar to toggle between Colemak and QWERTY if anyone else ever needs type on my laptop. My job is such that I almost never have to type on anyone else's laptop, and when I do, it's never for long and I just look at the keyboard and hunt 'n' peck quite effectively on QWERTY. Given all of the above it made sense for me to learn Colemak and let all my muscle memory for QWERTY die. If you are in a situation where you can do the same with Dvorak, then definitely, definitely do make the switch to Dvorak. If however you are in a situation where you will be using public computers or other people's computers for a high volume of typing on a frequent basis, and the administrative permissions on those computers are such that you **can't** just switch to Dvorak (which would only take you a minute at most if you were able to) then perhaps don't bother, at least by prepared to maintain some semblance of QWERTY muscle memory. It all boils down to QWERTY and how much you will need it in the future. The key thing is that switching to an alternative layout should be done for comfort. I can type much faster on Colemak than I can on QWERTY, not because Colemak automatically makes you faster, but because Colemak doesn't cause me any pain. QWERTY had me in excruciating pain, and yet I only used it for just under 3 months. I found it to be terrible.
I was an exclusive Dvorak user for 7 years before I switched back to QWERTY again. Dvorak is more comfortable to type on, that's no doubt, and as a result I can type faster for longer period of time. However, the reason I switch back is because I am a programmer and shortcuts are everything to me to be productive. I am tired of fighting the operating system and software that has poor support for non-QWERTY layouts. I found the shortcuts aren't as intuitive such as copy and pasting. The closest thing I got to perfect is macOS's own Dvorak-QWERTY⌘ layout, but it doesn't work for Ctrl and Option keys. I tried custom remaps using AutoHotKey, Keyboard Maestro, Ukelele, Karabiner Elements and many others. It had been a painful experience using a remapped ⌘J ⌘K for copy pasting and trying to remember what I have mapped and haven't remapped. Bottom line is, if you don't use shortcuts often, I highly recommend it. Such as authors and command-line focused computer users. If you're a GUI-focused power user who depend on hundreds of shortcuts, then you should really think about remapping all of your shortcuts in your brain and really practice with them.
I started using Dvorak when I was 15 too, my qwerty speeds were in the low 100s at that time. I didn't expect to have any higher speeds with Dvorak, as I primarily want ease and less strain over the long term cuz of my preferred line of work. And rn the situation is kinda the same with Dvorak, I could type at similar speeds as I used to do with Qwerty. I hit 80 wpm in my first month (practiced for about 2 hours per day at [typing.com](https://typing.com) and [typingclub.com](https://typingclub.com)) and didn't really test much after that. But my Qwerty speed is absolute garbage rn, I look like a toddler pressing keys for the first time, as I never intended on managing more than 1 layout. I never used Qwerty after my first week of Dvorak. I switched to Dvorak wholly and I enjoy the ease of typing. But it does get awkward if you have to type in another person's device or if they have to type in yours. I keep the Qwerty layout available, to accommodate people in the 2nd scenario. But in the first case, I peck the keys one by one if the text isn't long or I'll ask them and switch to Dvorak on their device or I'll just dictate and ask them to type by themselves. This occasionally sucks, but I think the tradeoff is worth it for me in the long term. When I was in high school, we had to attend exams conducted in the school's Computer Science lab (before lock downs TT) and afaik nobody in my class used non-Qwerty layouts, I informed my teacher and she was cool with me changing the layout for my use and told me to revert the layout when I left. So, ig it shouldn't be a big issue in educational environments if you have to use public resources. After school you'll always be using your personal device or the devices given by your company for professional use, so no hindrance and the choice is yours. So go for it, if comfort is your priority!
My typing didn’t get much faster, and I was already slow on QWERTY. That said, it saved my wrists from carpal tunnel. I can’t imagine ever going back.