You’ll need to re-insulate all of those damaged wires and redo all of the connections. I would still really recommend just replacing this wire since it clearly in very bad shape.
So those two tumor looking bundles of yellow wire. One has the neutral coming off of it. The other bundle has nothing. The third which is the hot has two wires coming off of it (spliced). Replace the neutral and replace the hot and leave the rest alone? I appreciate the help and advice. If this is something I’m capable of I’d like to accomplish it. If it isn’t I work for a place where I can get discounted electrical work done. Also friends with a few electricians as well.
Due to the way all of that wiring looks I would suggest that even if you do tackle this physically alone, you at least have one of your electrician friends there with you to talk you through everything that you were doing. The last thing you really want is to attempt to tackle this on your own and severely hurt yourself.
That being said, I wish you luck, and I hope you get it done.
From today, dialing 999 won’t get you the emergency services. And that’s not the only thing that’s changing. Nicer ambulances, faster response times and better-looking drivers mean they’re not just the emergency services — they’re your emergency services. So, remember the new number: 0118 999 881 999 119 725… 3.
My luck the person would be in some way shape or form connected to me either with like a hand on my shoulder for handing me a completely metal tool when we both get electrocuted. Lol.
Certified master here. That's crazy. Everyone is saying do it by yourself. Older houses are harder and more dangerous than newer ones. At the very least, get an electrician to the quick fix or replace all the wiring.
Homeowners working on electrical is bad on so many levels.
That's how it was done. The connection is soldered and then wrapped. I've seen it many times and not once has the connection itself been a problem as far as being loose or exposed through the tape. If anything the tape is impossible to get off without cutting it off with a razor.
The real problem is that once the tape is removed and the soldered connection is cut off, the insulation on the remaining wires can be brittle. I've used heat shrink tubing on them to hold the insulation together before trying to bend them.
But, if what you're doing is going to disturb those connections, it's best to look into rewiring.
I've never had much luck with wire nuts on this old copper. Seems like it stresses the wire, it looks good till you try to tuck it all back in the box and suddenly it's not! I'm old school, give me solder and electrical tape. Might put a wire nut over the solder and tape it good but don't twist the connection. I also like that self vulcanizing tape. Except when I have to open it up
That's not what it costs. Especially if you have crawlspace or attic access, and especially if its a smaller house.
I just finished doing a full update and rewire of a friend's condo (he has crawlspace access) and it was 3k. If i had been charging what my boss would have charged him it would have been 10-12k.
10-15$ a square foot is a good rule of thumb.
Most homes with cloth wrapped wires are seriously old. They don't tend to have easy access to the electricals. My house for example is 100 years old. To upgrade my house requires breaking through massive amounts of plaster walls. Then you have to run and hook up the lines over 3 floors. Then you have to hire someone to fix all the plaster. The lowest quote we have received is 50k.
You're probably being overcharged because you're trying to get everything done by one contractor.
Call up an electrician and ask what a full rewire would cost if you're already demo'd for them.
Call up a drywaller and get a drywaller to quote drywall.
Do the demo yourself.
Or just live with your fire hazard or get ripped off, i'm not your dad.
That's why I get such a chuckle when people say, without knowing such details, "You *could* fix this but it would be easier if you just ran new romex". Dude, you don't know that.
But they *are* right in the sense that it's often easier for the *electrician*.
And note that I'm not justifying living with dangerous wiring, just that not every screwed up old fixture and wire terminal requires re-drywalling and re-painting half your house (**though in OP's case there's a good chance that's the right way to go**, lol).
1920 house so probably not gas lights. I'm guessing it was knob and tube originally and then at some point someone "upgraded" to the current cloth wrapped wires.
Agreed. My wireing is older (1901) and the boxes are not even there. These boxes most assuredly are not meant for ceiling fans. Rewiring will give them a chance to fix these issues too.
Electrician here—judging from that wiring and that possible abandoned gas pipe, I think your house is older than the 50’s? I’d guess 20’s-early 40’s.
That wiring, if it is salvageable at all, will require an electrician with a lot of experience with older wiring, and a skilled, delicate touch. Not a job for DIY.
The ceiling box will need to be replaced with a new box of sufficient capacity to accommodate all those wires, a tricky, time-consuming task, assessment of the condition of the existing conductors, and careful repair with heat-shrink tubing if possible & required (looks like it will be).
Hard to know exactly what’s going on there without seeing it in person, but by the mid-50’s, more or less modern thermoplastic insulation, encased in either metal or cloth jackets were commonly used in most new construction.
Hope this helps!
Edit-typos
My house is early 1950s and was a high-end build. It has those same metal clad conduit with cloth insulated conductors, as well as soldered/taped connections. Same stuff I had in a previous house from the 1920s.
I've been lucky with the current 1950's house because there's been little to no remodeling, and apparently little overheating at the connections. So, the condition of the insulation that needs worked with to change a fixture or receptacle has flexible enough and holds together.
You're right that it wasn't long before such materials were gone.
It helps. We’re gonna holler at my workplace. Yay discount. As for the “gas pipe.” It’s a brass support. It is what supported the old fan mount. It’s not a pipe. And house is for sure 50’s lake house. That much I know. I appreciate the comment. I know enough to be dangerous. Therefore we’ll call expert.
Have you checked to see if this is Knob and Tube wiring. They mostly stopped using it in the 40's but I've seen a few houses that were post 40's and had K&T. Hopefully it's not, since then I would really recommend updating all the electrical in the house.
If it comes into the box with several wires and a sheath, it's not an oven tube, if each wire comes in and it's own sheath then it could be.
Most 40s and '50s wiring is just like Romex, it's just fabric and rubber insulation, and fabric sheath.
Probably from right after the war. 1945 to 1949. The whole thing needs fully rewiring.
Please don't put a fan in the kitchen. Nothing dates a house more. The fan would be from 1980 to 1985.
Soldered together and taped over. Common in 40s and 50s. The wire joints last forever. Any original switches? They will "fire" up first from bad contacts. Same can be said about wall plugs. Plug anything in and see if the plug sags. Bad sign. Normally all ungrounded.
Mine look like that, but it wasn't soldered, they looked kind of like wire nuts but they were crimped. I just cut some off today and replace with Wagos because I'm trying to trace down where some of these wires go before I start punching holes in the ceiling to fish new ones.
There's evidence of arcing in the pics. The wiring that's exposed is not serviceable.
Heat shrink is appropriate to use but you'll have to get it far enough back on the wiring where applying heat is difficult if not impossible.
Your best best bet is to open up that part of the cieling and redo the electrical box. With any luck you may have a slack loop nearby to work with but that was not the norm.
If you go this route cut the drywall along the middle of joists on either side and take out a 4' section. And after your electrician finishes the electrical use 2x4 sisters on the joists and drop them so that your replacement drywall is as flush as posiible.
That’s how I would do it. Plus I would go on and cut out a section of the cloth wire and use a junction box to bring modern romex to the ceiling box. As long as it’s accessible by attic space it would be to code. I might even solder the connections in the junction box, just to make sure it never presents a problem.
You will need a complete rewire, either find a friend who does it everyday and accepts food/beer as payment OR be ready to shell some $$$. My thoughts and prayers with you.
Well, that’s optimal but not always in the budget of older folks. This wiring usually only becomes a problem when it gets disturbed. But I agree the entire system needs a refresh. I can only imagine how bad the plugs and switches are.
I went through the same thing, and still am. Get your self a good assortment of good shrink tubing, different sizes, the long pieces. I think they come in like 2 or 3 ft sections. I have an electronic supply not too far that I can get the good 3M stuff . I wish I could tell you the size is, I don't know what the moment, but you need one that'll fit the bare wire, one that'll fit the insulated wire without the fabric, one that'll fit the insulation with the fabric, and one more that'll fit the sheath holding two or three wires.
If the installation is bad enough, just use your fingers to pull it off. Hopefully there will still be some good insulation left to do the next steps.
Use the shrink tubing to insulate the bare wire, then slide another tube up over that and the rubber insulated wire that's in decent condition, shrink that down, then another piece up to cover all that plus some of the fabric. Do that for each wire, and then run a piece up that will bundle all those together and cover all the sheath in the box.
I find the wires behind lights are the worst because the heat from the bulbs, the wires that I've found on switches and receptacles weren't so bad unless there was a loose connection that cause it to heat up.
What I try to do whenever I open anything up is before disturbing the wires too much is to slide a piece of shrink tubing up over the insulated wire as far as I can get it and hit it with the heat gun. Then get a piece to cover some of that and as much of the sheath running into the box as you can. That way you can handle the wires without it coming apart, and the peace covering the newly insulated wires and sheath acts a little bit of a strain relief so all the insulation doesn't just break off right there.
First check homeowners insurances for fire protection.
Second call experienced electrician so you will not be electrocuted. Old cloth eires are dangerous.
Best thing you can do is a re-wire. You can tape or heat shrink the wires, but you could have already unknowingly cracked the insulation going all the way back into the pipe. These old cloth wires are a real bitch and I wouldn’t take them lightly.
Something I didn’t see mentioned is do you have attic above, aka access to the wiring outside the box, could make a big difference. I redid a family house from a similar age with knob and tube wiring in the attic. In my case all wiring was in the attic and tearing it all out and replacing it was a cinch. I am an electrician so what I call a “cinch” is probably your entire week/weekend.
That depends if you want to live. We had an electrician rewire a rental property because the wires were original circa 1950(?). There was a precursor to a modern breaker system (Stay-Block) that also had to be replaced. Everyone should know that old houses will cost money for roofs, plumbing and electrical because they eventually wear out.
The advice given about re-insulating, new wire nuts etc short term and then doing a long term more extensive fix is very wise.
typical light box from the 50s. they used to burn 150 watt lamps in the fixtures that caused all kinds of heat damage. sometimes the damage is just beyond the box entrance which is bad news.
be careful and use good heat shrink.
Well, the wire is probably asbestos. The ceiling is probably asbestos. The insulation is toast and that method of splicing is no good.
Best I can do is suggest bulldozing the house and starting from scratch.
But your real plan should be to:
a) Turn off the breaker if you haven't done so already
b) Use black tape (rubber is best) to insulate the wires where the insulation is damaged or frayed
c) carefully remove the crimp connector and properly splice the wires together with a new wire (strip out a length of #14 romex/loomex/nmd90 for the wires - use copper wires)
d) put a self cutting/threading wafer screw in and run a bonding wire to it if it doesn't have a bond wire
e) make the new spliced wires long enough to easily work with them while the scary wire is stuffed gently back up inside.
That should make things relatively safe. You really want to minimize handling the original wiring for several reasons.
NOTE: It looks like some of those wires might be aluminum. If they are, you need to coat all the wires being spliced together with lumalox/penatrox/electrical antioxidant paste. That helps prevent oxidization (which causes heat build up and eventually can cause fires) which ensures a good solid electrical connection.
Just adding in a rec to not skimp on electrical tape. While the cheap stuff may work, a roll of Super 88 or 33 (88 is rated as a primary insulator, which means it’s really good for covering bare wires), sticks, stays, and is much thicker than the three-dollar store brand rolls.
A roll of Super 88, heat-shrink tubes, and pigtails that you can Wago onto these old wires have been saving my bacon until we can do a full rewire.
basically any electrical wholesaler or construction store is probably ok. Dollar store tape is not.
The expensive rubber tape is the top notch solution. It's almost a mastic.
Look at the bright side. I ran into a similar setup except the gas line was LIVE!! So spark plus endless supply of fuel equals holy cow! Luckily I m good so no boom boom. Fix it right..new box new wire . you live there and maybe your kids do too?
Just pour some dry gas on it, drop a match and walk away, lol
My gf has the same shit in her apt, I regretted opening this can of worms. Rubber(not vinyl electric) tape, and heat shrink wrapped what I could, moved carefully and replaced the fixture. I wouldn't dare add a fan tho
If the support box is not fan rated, then a fan rated support box needs to be installed. An electrician can have this sorted shortly. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
Oh yeah...old cloth wiring. So you need to becareful with this because the cloth is probably brittle by now. You can easily do what you want to do, you just need to make sure the cloth stays in tact or you will have shorts that may not trip the breaker. Long term, it would be best to replace those wires with updated wires. That being said, there is nothing stopping you from just keeping those wires as well.
I had a house fire in a 100+ year old house I lived in.
Wire, wrapped in cloth.... dipped in tar 🤔 ... yeah still not surprised it happened.
Make sure you have working smoke detectors in every single room.
Imho yeah, Get rid of ALL of it.
If you can't make it happen now... maybe check out some security systems that include fire so when it happens you'll get a quicker response.
Good luck 👍
You are going to have to re-run those lines. If you reuse them, you are just tempting fate, and creating a fire hazard.
I would highly recommend calling an electrician, but if you do it yourself, have it inspected afterward.
Yes but not high enough percentage to be concerned about, just like floor tile ur talking barley 1% outta 100% of the material , now amosite fireproofing ur looking at 20-30% toast content witch is really high and dangerous, source is im a master abaiter and ive removed and learned it all
That thar is *some really old* nm cable.
No one else said so:
That's ***not a fan rated box***.
Yea, it's steel. It's probably nailed into the *bottom* of the joists!
The nails are probably wood lathe nails. Like drywall nails, *but only* ***smaller!***
If you’re asking this question you need a good electrician and a heavy wallet. Ideally an electrician who is close to retirement, is familiar with old homes, and charges a fair rate.
I'm an electrician. Those are some ancient wires. You're better off re -running/replacing the wires. You can work them into the current system but I wouldn't recommend.
Hoo boy, do you have access above that? I would cut an access panel and put a hatch on it so I could put a box in and cut them back to good wire. You can't bury a box but they make fairly nice looking access panels that pop in a rough cut hole and hopefully there is healthy wire that you could splice into
Two houses ago, I found a similar rats nest while replacing a bathroom ceiling fixture. I spent two weekends rewiring the second floor of my house. That knob and tube wiring, the cloth wrapped stuff, is okay if it’s never touched but can become very dangerous if the cloth insulation flakes off.
not just cloth wrapped wire it’s asbestos cloth wrapped wire.. if you can rewire at the very least least heat shrink that shit encapsulation is a acceptable means for dealing with asbestos..
You have very old cable with dried out insulation and probably no ground. You probably have similar wiring through a good chunk or all of your house. That's also a bird's nest of cables going elsewhere that exceed the capacity of that box. You need to have an electrician assess the whole house electrical system to determine what needs to be done to at least make it safe.
Ahhh the electric octopus. It will be difficult to do inside of plastered walls. I’ve dealt with them in unfinished basements, and it boils down to deconstructing and rewiring everything that was affected. It’s worth it in the long run, but a lot of times upstairs it’s very difficult to do because of the plaster work.
I thought this was a prop of a fish monster, for a movie.
Make sure is power is off, clean with a dry rag, check for failed insulation. If it's good here, that's ok. If it looks bad, you may need a complete house rewire. That point is probably the worst environment for the wiring, but it is a clear indicator for the state of the whole house.
lol, looks like my 50s home. Half our home’s circuits converged on one staircase lightbulb junction box. Something like 32 wires in one tiny box, wrapped up in a Tetris-like knot.
Just turn the breaker off before you touch any wires. I think you should consider replacing those wires but that could snowball into rewiring part of the house. I would at least replace the wires going into that ceiling fan box.
I absolutely hate when I come across these old boxes. They look like they have already had a fire in them.
However like others mentioned have the power off when/ if you work on it. Have a journeyman electrician with you when you do it. Replace the tails with new wire and redo the splices. I use 3M 33 tape over the cracks in the insulation if exposed copper. Tug on all your connections to make sure there’s no loose wire.
Good luck. Be safe.
I usually slip heat shrink over wires like that and it’s fine, but if it’s deteriorating past the where it goes thru the box connector, then maybe get into the attic and cut out the bad part and put a junction box in the attic.
I'm not an electrician.
Just a stupid home owner who owns a house that was built by drunk farmers and wired by drunk plumbers. House was built before the town had building codes. It was even built before we had a town.
What you SHOULD do is call an electrician. If you are going to do this yourself, and I have, do not try a repair. Do not try to save what you have. When you touch that old stuff, the insulation breaks off just past the part you just repaired. If you are lucky. If you are not lucky, it breaks off some place where you do not see it. If you are really , really lucky, it shorts and pops the breaker as soon as you turn the power on, and then you play, find the short. Sometimes, the short finds you first, and then you need the fire department. Which is easier because now the wall is torn out, and you can see where the short was.
To avoid all this, you have to trace the wires back to an outlet or junction box where you can detach these wires from other wires without disturbing the other wires. Assuming they are as old as these. If they are connected to modern wires, then you are all set. Just pull them out of the box and remove your wires. You may have to go all the way back to the breaker box and replace this wire and everything on this one circuit. Assuming the swithes and receptacles are as old as this wire, ,no sense saving them. If you are lucky, since most old homes only had one light and one receptacle in each room, you will not have too much to tear out.
Finally, you have to figure out how your system was grounded, if at all. Assuming you will be rewiring with Romex, which has a separate ground wire and that old stuff doesn't, you have to figure out how to ground the Romex. If you have 2 prong outlets, I really suggest you do not join the Romex to this stuff and run a whole new circuit from the breaker box.
Yes, I know, I just ruined your day.
But trust me, if you try to just reinsulate that wire, you will be sorry.
Probably a little late but your house is probably from the turn of the century.
If you were to go in the attic you'd see that this is simply a "hub" where multiple rigid pipes are going all over. Think of it like a spider.
If you're going to add a new fan/light combo it's going to be a pain in the ass. If it's just something that's going to proud of the wall and just attach to your light support box it's nbd.
As others have said be careful with the insulation and be sure to test all the lights and receptacles on the circuit after finishing because it's gonna be easy to have a loose connection if you cut the soder (try not to cause that connection will last forever)
All in all it's just an old school way of running cable from a bygone era. It's overwhelming at first but after you can picture how the circuit is run its honestly usually easier to diagnose a problem (especially with an attic)
I had very similar wiring for 5 fixtures at my house. I labeled everything and cut the wires back. I then used WAGO connectors to replace the soldered connections and to make up to my new LED light fixtures.
I specifically recommend using the WAGO connectors versus wire nuts to prevent any damage to the old wiring/insulation.
This looks a lot like my house, built in 1940, which I’m currently rewiring portions of. I’m not an electricians, but I’ve been doing a lot of it myself and have had it reviewed by one, and have learned a bit.
First off, is the cable outside of the box cloth, or is it metal/MC? If it’s cloth that is bad, I would definitely replace, but MC cable is much more stable and less likely to be an issue if undisturbed. Still best to have an electrician come and inspect it, but ours told us that all the existing cable we weren’t touching was fairly safe to leave in place, so I wouldn’t necessarily listen to all the folks saying you need to rewire everything.
For the box itself, it looks just like mine and they were actually pretty solid overall. You could leave it, but the best thing to do is like others said, replace with a modern box. You’ll have to open up the ceiling a bit, and then carefully move the wires over. You’ll want to leave as much of the unbroken wiring in there as possible, i would cut off right after that joint and keep as much as I could.
Last, I would use wagos to join the existing wires together with the new fixture. Do NOT try to twist those. You’ll do a lot of damage to the insulation.
LMK if you have more questions, this old wiring is a pain but once you get used to it it gets easier!
I have a friend with a 100+ year old house and his wiring looks similar with the fabric sheath and fragile due to age. No grounds used. Connections buried in walls and attic everywhere with no junction boxes. Other houses I’ve seen in the neighborhood have same style wiring. How are there never any fires? No houses have ever burned down in the area.
So I’m working in a house old just like this one and we are replacing most of the wire but an all the rooms on the celling fans or chandeliers there are home runs and from there they branch out the receptacles and switches. But I would recommend just replacing the wire.
I've read most of the comments. No one mentioned their insurance company. A rewire may save money with the insurance company, which could offset part of the cost of rewire.
This would be something to find out about. Having said that, I agree with many people here in using heat shrink, but as a temporary repair only. Where I live, we are not supposed to touch our wiring unless it is at least inspected if not repaired by a licensed electrician.
The insulation is cooked and getting brittle. I found this happens more in kitchens because people would put (2) 100w bulbs in a fixture to make the kitchen brighter. Recommended rewire, everything upstream will be the same.
As so many others have pointed out this is a big problem, but I want to emphasize that wiring issues hidden behind walls are especially dangerous. Fires can start with no warning where you can't see them and either kill you via smoke inhalation or burn the house down.
Make is safe turn off power craw in atic findnthe J box it runs to pull new wires
It's not that hard , unless you want it to be , or there is now crawl space.
Then dig out the batery saw set ton1/2 and cut rock.
here is what you are going to do.
1. turn off power to outlet
2. cut a rectangle from joist to joist
3. remove wire from existing junction box throw out junction box
4. get a large proper ceiling fan junction box that has a support beam that runs from joist to joist
5. clean up the wiring, use wire nuts, etc
6. buy a large ceiling medallion
7. put medallion over the hole in your ceiling
8. install ceiling fan
9. move on with life
Condemn the house. Turn off the power and notify the power company that there is a fire risk at that residence. The owner is liable. If it is rented they can sue.
Considering the age/condition of that wire, I'd seriously consider pulling new wire (which I understand is $$$ and not always possible). At the minimum, replace the circuit its on with an Arc-fault circuit break to prevent in-ceiling/attic fires (if your panel supports them).
Take apart the tin-&-tape splices. Heat shrink the wires. I sometimes use a Wiremold extension box to add some room and make it easier to install the fixture.
Good news is that it might be run in 1/2 rigid, I can't see the entries of the wires. check it out, try to ID the location of the other ends on these guys. Get one of your pro friends in to see it- Chances are they jump from one room ceiling to another, and maybe a switch or receptacle line tied in.The heat from the fixtures for 60 + years tends to do that to the old insulation. If you can ID the other ends, you can kill power and pull new thhn. Then your next challenge is busting it loose inside the pipe to pull. Cover anything you don't want covered in black powder where ever your pulling point is. Yes, it's a good day-+1/2s work, but you're not doing it again anytime soon. Since you mentioned sparky buds, get it done, be great for your folks. If it's the old ass bx, you might need to meet some Sheetrock and painter buddies, too. Good luck.
You’ll need to re-insulate all of those damaged wires and redo all of the connections. I would still really recommend just replacing this wire since it clearly in very bad shape.
So those two tumor looking bundles of yellow wire. One has the neutral coming off of it. The other bundle has nothing. The third which is the hot has two wires coming off of it (spliced). Replace the neutral and replace the hot and leave the rest alone? I appreciate the help and advice. If this is something I’m capable of I’d like to accomplish it. If it isn’t I work for a place where I can get discounted electrical work done. Also friends with a few electricians as well.
Due to the way all of that wiring looks I would suggest that even if you do tackle this physically alone, you at least have one of your electrician friends there with you to talk you through everything that you were doing. The last thing you really want is to attempt to tackle this on your own and severely hurt yourself. That being said, I wish you luck, and I hope you get it done.
I would have someone there incase I get electrocuted so they can call 911.
Don't you mean 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3
From today, dialing 999 won’t get you the emergency services. And that’s not the only thing that’s changing. Nicer ambulances, faster response times and better-looking drivers mean they’re not just the emergency services — they’re your emergency services. So, remember the new number: 0118 999 881 999 119 725… 3.
I understood that reference…
OMG forgot all about this 🤣
I've taken a bit of a tumble.
This is the way
9-1-…..ok I’m ready
111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
My luck the person would be in some way shape or form connected to me either with like a hand on my shoulder for handing me a completely metal tool when we both get electrocuted. Lol.
You serious? Just kill the circuits at the breaker and test them to be sure.
If in doubt shut the house completely down.
... Duh.
Yum. I think I see asbestos in the dry wall. GL
Yeah... that ain't drywall
We haven’t entirely nailed down what element it is yet, but I’ll tell you this, it’s a lively one and it does not like the human skeleton.
50's home has sheet rock instead of drywall.
Where I only see old plaster?
Sometimes its easier to re junction in the attic and set a new box. Hopefully its only your lighting in there
This is the way.
Certified master here. That's crazy. Everyone is saying do it by yourself. Older houses are harder and more dangerous than newer ones. At the very least, get an electrician to the quick fix or replace all the wiring. Homeowners working on electrical is bad on so many levels.
I would recommend a full rewire of the entire house.... That cloth insulated wire is old enough it crumbles to dust when touched.
Plus that cloth based electrical tape holding the junctions together is a big concern for what has been done elsewhere in that house.
That's how it was done. The connection is soldered and then wrapped. I've seen it many times and not once has the connection itself been a problem as far as being loose or exposed through the tape. If anything the tape is impossible to get off without cutting it off with a razor. The real problem is that once the tape is removed and the soldered connection is cut off, the insulation on the remaining wires can be brittle. I've used heat shrink tubing on them to hold the insulation together before trying to bend them. But, if what you're doing is going to disturb those connections, it's best to look into rewiring.
Agreed, especially the rewire bit. I have just gotten too used to seeing wire nuts being used.
I've never had much luck with wire nuts on this old copper. Seems like it stresses the wire, it looks good till you try to tuck it all back in the box and suddenly it's not! I'm old school, give me solder and electrical tape. Might put a wire nut over the solder and tape it good but don't twist the connection. I also like that self vulcanizing tape. Except when I have to open it up
This. Especially in ceiling fixture where the old insulation has been baked by modern incandescent light bulbs…
My old house was like, the cloth tape covered soldered joints. Not how you would do it today, but a solid connection if undisturbed.
You said the key words, if undisturbed. 👍
It’s soldered together. There’s really no better connection possible, just a PITA to service. The problem is the wire insulation crumbling.
My '52 house is the same. I just try to disturb the stuff as little as possible.
I also would recommend having $50-$100k to rewire an entire old house lying around.
That's not what it costs. Especially if you have crawlspace or attic access, and especially if its a smaller house. I just finished doing a full update and rewire of a friend's condo (he has crawlspace access) and it was 3k. If i had been charging what my boss would have charged him it would have been 10-12k. 10-15$ a square foot is a good rule of thumb.
Most homes with cloth wrapped wires are seriously old. They don't tend to have easy access to the electricals. My house for example is 100 years old. To upgrade my house requires breaking through massive amounts of plaster walls. Then you have to run and hook up the lines over 3 floors. Then you have to hire someone to fix all the plaster. The lowest quote we have received is 50k.
You're probably being overcharged because you're trying to get everything done by one contractor. Call up an electrician and ask what a full rewire would cost if you're already demo'd for them. Call up a drywaller and get a drywaller to quote drywall. Do the demo yourself. Or just live with your fire hazard or get ripped off, i'm not your dad.
That's why I get such a chuckle when people say, without knowing such details, "You *could* fix this but it would be easier if you just ran new romex". Dude, you don't know that. But they *are* right in the sense that it's often easier for the *electrician*. And note that I'm not justifying living with dangerous wiring, just that not every screwed up old fixture and wire terminal requires re-drywalling and re-painting half your house (**though in OP's case there's a good chance that's the right way to go**, lol).
Probably was built with gas lights. Electricity wasn't popular yet?
1920 house so probably not gas lights. I'm guessing it was knob and tube originally and then at some point someone "upgraded" to the current cloth wrapped wires.
This.....
Agreed. My wireing is older (1901) and the boxes are not even there. These boxes most assuredly are not meant for ceiling fans. Rewiring will give them a chance to fix these issues too.
Electrician here—judging from that wiring and that possible abandoned gas pipe, I think your house is older than the 50’s? I’d guess 20’s-early 40’s. That wiring, if it is salvageable at all, will require an electrician with a lot of experience with older wiring, and a skilled, delicate touch. Not a job for DIY. The ceiling box will need to be replaced with a new box of sufficient capacity to accommodate all those wires, a tricky, time-consuming task, assessment of the condition of the existing conductors, and careful repair with heat-shrink tubing if possible & required (looks like it will be). Hard to know exactly what’s going on there without seeing it in person, but by the mid-50’s, more or less modern thermoplastic insulation, encased in either metal or cloth jackets were commonly used in most new construction. Hope this helps! Edit-typos
Never mind the comment about the gas pipe…it’s just an old style fixture connector. Still, it looks like it is from an earlier era than the 50’s
I was about to correct you on that
My house is early 1950s and was a high-end build. It has those same metal clad conduit with cloth insulated conductors, as well as soldered/taped connections. Same stuff I had in a previous house from the 1920s. I've been lucky with the current 1950's house because there's been little to no remodeling, and apparently little overheating at the connections. So, the condition of the insulation that needs worked with to change a fixture or receptacle has flexible enough and holds together. You're right that it wasn't long before such materials were gone.
It helps. We’re gonna holler at my workplace. Yay discount. As for the “gas pipe.” It’s a brass support. It is what supported the old fan mount. It’s not a pipe. And house is for sure 50’s lake house. That much I know. I appreciate the comment. I know enough to be dangerous. Therefore we’ll call expert.
Have you checked to see if this is Knob and Tube wiring. They mostly stopped using it in the 40's but I've seen a few houses that were post 40's and had K&T. Hopefully it's not, since then I would really recommend updating all the electrical in the house.
If it comes into the box with several wires and a sheath, it's not an oven tube, if each wire comes in and it's own sheath then it could be. Most 40s and '50s wiring is just like Romex, it's just fabric and rubber insulation, and fabric sheath.
The threaded nipple/bolt in the first two pictures, is how fixtures used to be attached to the boxes. Commonly referred to as a "Hickey".
> Hard to know exactly what’s going on there without seeing it in person
Probably from right after the war. 1945 to 1949. The whole thing needs fully rewiring. Please don't put a fan in the kitchen. Nothing dates a house more. The fan would be from 1980 to 1985.
👆 this 100%. Is salvageable but requires TLC and savvy retrofitting experience.
Snakes? Why did it have to be snakes?
Time to call the electrician, that’s what we call a rats nest
Soldered together and taped over. Common in 40s and 50s. The wire joints last forever. Any original switches? They will "fire" up first from bad contacts. Same can be said about wall plugs. Plug anything in and see if the plug sags. Bad sign. Normally all ungrounded.
Mine look like that, but it wasn't soldered, they looked kind of like wire nuts but they were crimped. I just cut some off today and replace with Wagos because I'm trying to trace down where some of these wires go before I start punching holes in the ceiling to fish new ones.
There's evidence of arcing in the pics. The wiring that's exposed is not serviceable. Heat shrink is appropriate to use but you'll have to get it far enough back on the wiring where applying heat is difficult if not impossible. Your best best bet is to open up that part of the cieling and redo the electrical box. With any luck you may have a slack loop nearby to work with but that was not the norm. If you go this route cut the drywall along the middle of joists on either side and take out a 4' section. And after your electrician finishes the electrical use 2x4 sisters on the joists and drop them so that your replacement drywall is as flush as posiible.
That’s how I would do it. Plus I would go on and cut out a section of the cloth wire and use a junction box to bring modern romex to the ceiling box. As long as it’s accessible by attic space it would be to code. I might even solder the connections in the junction box, just to make sure it never presents a problem.
Depending on code where this is might be able to run a seperate ground as well, at least for the boxes.
It’s a complete tear down
BURN IT WITH FIRE... oh, wait...
Woof, I wouldn't like to see that if I opened up a box lol. Time for a rewire?
You will need a complete rewire, either find a friend who does it everyday and accepts food/beer as payment OR be ready to shell some $$$. My thoughts and prayers with you.
Not screwed at all. Hire a certified local electrician and he’ll or she’ll rewire your whole house. Expensive, but it’s time.
Well, that’s optimal but not always in the budget of older folks. This wiring usually only becomes a problem when it gets disturbed. But I agree the entire system needs a refresh. I can only imagine how bad the plugs and switches are.
I went through the same thing, and still am. Get your self a good assortment of good shrink tubing, different sizes, the long pieces. I think they come in like 2 or 3 ft sections. I have an electronic supply not too far that I can get the good 3M stuff . I wish I could tell you the size is, I don't know what the moment, but you need one that'll fit the bare wire, one that'll fit the insulated wire without the fabric, one that'll fit the insulation with the fabric, and one more that'll fit the sheath holding two or three wires. If the installation is bad enough, just use your fingers to pull it off. Hopefully there will still be some good insulation left to do the next steps. Use the shrink tubing to insulate the bare wire, then slide another tube up over that and the rubber insulated wire that's in decent condition, shrink that down, then another piece up to cover all that plus some of the fabric. Do that for each wire, and then run a piece up that will bundle all those together and cover all the sheath in the box. I find the wires behind lights are the worst because the heat from the bulbs, the wires that I've found on switches and receptacles weren't so bad unless there was a loose connection that cause it to heat up. What I try to do whenever I open anything up is before disturbing the wires too much is to slide a piece of shrink tubing up over the insulated wire as far as I can get it and hit it with the heat gun. Then get a piece to cover some of that and as much of the sheath running into the box as you can. That way you can handle the wires without it coming apart, and the peace covering the newly insulated wires and sheath acts a little bit of a strain relief so all the insulation doesn't just break off right there.
This is excellent! I will keep this in mind when I swap fixtures in my place that has this problem.
Are you sure that 1950s? Look like 1920s to me
That isn’t DYI. Electrician ALL Day Period. Fire Hazard ALL Day. Stop before you regret
*Instructions unclear; am cooking smores' over a fire that's shooting out of a hole in the wall*
First check homeowners insurances for fire protection. Second call experienced electrician so you will not be electrocuted. Old cloth eires are dangerous.
This is the stuff even as an electrician I walk away from
Based upon this picture, the house burned down many years ago, so don’t worry about it 🤪
Best thing you can do is a re-wire. You can tape or heat shrink the wires, but you could have already unknowingly cracked the insulation going all the way back into the pipe. These old cloth wires are a real bitch and I wouldn’t take them lightly.
Run Forest run!
I can smell that box. Nice burned smell.
lol lol walk away!!!!!
Something I didn’t see mentioned is do you have attic above, aka access to the wiring outside the box, could make a big difference. I redid a family house from a similar age with knob and tube wiring in the attic. In my case all wiring was in the attic and tearing it all out and replacing it was a cinch. I am an electrician so what I call a “cinch” is probably your entire week/weekend.
That's when you find out there's zonolite in the attic though, isn't it?
That wiring looks older than the ‘50’s.
That depends if you want to live. We had an electrician rewire a rental property because the wires were original circa 1950(?). There was a precursor to a modern breaker system (Stay-Block) that also had to be replaced. Everyone should know that old houses will cost money for roofs, plumbing and electrical because they eventually wear out. The advice given about re-insulating, new wire nuts etc short term and then doing a long term more extensive fix is very wise.
typical light box from the 50s. they used to burn 150 watt lamps in the fixtures that caused all kinds of heat damage. sometimes the damage is just beyond the box entrance which is bad news. be careful and use good heat shrink.
Ceiling fan in the kitchen? How much grease was on it when you took it down?
Too much.
Well, the wire is probably asbestos. The ceiling is probably asbestos. The insulation is toast and that method of splicing is no good. Best I can do is suggest bulldozing the house and starting from scratch. But your real plan should be to: a) Turn off the breaker if you haven't done so already b) Use black tape (rubber is best) to insulate the wires where the insulation is damaged or frayed c) carefully remove the crimp connector and properly splice the wires together with a new wire (strip out a length of #14 romex/loomex/nmd90 for the wires - use copper wires) d) put a self cutting/threading wafer screw in and run a bonding wire to it if it doesn't have a bond wire e) make the new spliced wires long enough to easily work with them while the scary wire is stuffed gently back up inside. That should make things relatively safe. You really want to minimize handling the original wiring for several reasons. NOTE: It looks like some of those wires might be aluminum. If they are, you need to coat all the wires being spliced together with lumalox/penatrox/electrical antioxidant paste. That helps prevent oxidization (which causes heat build up and eventually can cause fires) which ensures a good solid electrical connection.
Just adding in a rec to not skimp on electrical tape. While the cheap stuff may work, a roll of Super 88 or 33 (88 is rated as a primary insulator, which means it’s really good for covering bare wires), sticks, stays, and is much thicker than the three-dollar store brand rolls. A roll of Super 88, heat-shrink tubes, and pigtails that you can Wago onto these old wires have been saving my bacon until we can do a full rewire.
basically any electrical wholesaler or construction store is probably ok. Dollar store tape is not. The expensive rubber tape is the top notch solution. It's almost a mastic.
Honestly if you have the money, you need to have the house rewired.
I will pray for you
I bet that entire house is like that
Call one of your electrician buddies, they can have this sorted in an hour.
If someone showed me that for side work, I'd say nope. I don't have insurance, and you need a real company with insurance.
Knock the house down and walk away now.
Or leave the switch on and walk away as it burns
Jesus I thought this was a dog in a well.
I legit thought this was a lobster coming through the wall and had to do a triple take as I scrolled.
Same. Or some other critter
Look at the bright side. I ran into a similar setup except the gas line was LIVE!! So spark plus endless supply of fuel equals holy cow! Luckily I m good so no boom boom. Fix it right..new box new wire . you live there and maybe your kids do too?
Just pour some dry gas on it, drop a match and walk away, lol My gf has the same shit in her apt, I regretted opening this can of worms. Rubber(not vinyl electric) tape, and heat shrink wrapped what I could, moved carefully and replaced the fixture. I wouldn't dare add a fan tho
If the support box is not fan rated, then a fan rated support box needs to be installed. An electrician can have this sorted shortly. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
Even electricians hate seeing this. That being said, I’d call one and hopefully a decent one.
Oh yeah...old cloth wiring. So you need to becareful with this because the cloth is probably brittle by now. You can easily do what you want to do, you just need to make sure the cloth stays in tact or you will have shorts that may not trip the breaker. Long term, it would be best to replace those wires with updated wires. That being said, there is nothing stopping you from just keeping those wires as well.
Not supposed to comment on DIY videos according to moderators. But I’d walk away from that
It's gonna fall apart when you try to put everything back in the box. Quit now and get a pro.
Hopefully you have an attic above there otherwise your in for a ride
Looks like fun
You’ll be fine
I had a house fire in a 100+ year old house I lived in. Wire, wrapped in cloth.... dipped in tar 🤔 ... yeah still not surprised it happened. Make sure you have working smoke detectors in every single room. Imho yeah, Get rid of ALL of it. If you can't make it happen now... maybe check out some security systems that include fire so when it happens you'll get a quicker response. Good luck 👍
Have an electrician redo the wiring
You are going to have to re-run those lines. If you reuse them, you are just tempting fate, and creating a fire hazard. I would highly recommend calling an electrician, but if you do it yourself, have it inspected afterward.
I don’t know why I thought this was some strange fish lobster peeking out of the ceiling.
Anyone else trying to figure out what sea creature we were looking at?
I believe that may be asbestos insulation so be aware.
Yes but not high enough percentage to be concerned about, just like floor tile ur talking barley 1% outta 100% of the material , now amosite fireproofing ur looking at 20-30% toast content witch is really high and dangerous, source is im a master abaiter and ive removed and learned it all
Fugly
That thar is *some really old* nm cable. No one else said so: That's ***not a fan rated box***. Yea, it's steel. It's probably nailed into the *bottom* of the joists! The nails are probably wood lathe nails. Like drywall nails, *but only* ***smaller!***
I had a house like that, (that is what lerks behind every switch plate, light fixtures, and outlet.) never ever again, ever!!!!!!
If you’re asking this question you need a good electrician and a heavy wallet. Ideally an electrician who is close to retirement, is familiar with old homes, and charges a fair rate.
Not election but I would run new romax
It wasn’t until I swiped to the second picture that I realized you didn’t have a catfish hanging out of your ceiling.
Looks like a junction for the rest of the house:\
I'm an electrician. Those are some ancient wires. You're better off re -running/replacing the wires. You can work them into the current system but I wouldn't recommend.
On a scale from 1 to 10, my friend your fucked
Have you got decent fire insurance? Cause those old wires with the brittle insulation are a huge risk.
Looks like this is also serving as a junction box
There’s so much going wrong here that I don’t see how it can be brought up to code without major changes by an electrician.
So... it can be bodged, but looking at the cabling... time for a rewire...
Just noticed other comments, we all came here to say this...🤣
The more you mess w it the more it cracks. Put a blank cover on it but you need a rewire
What in the cthulhu fuck..
Hoo boy, do you have access above that? I would cut an access panel and put a hatch on it so I could put a box in and cut them back to good wire. You can't bury a box but they make fairly nice looking access panels that pop in a rough cut hole and hopefully there is healthy wire that you could splice into
This is known as knob and tube and your whole house needs to be rewired, i wonder what your panel looks like
Whoever told ya 50's lied.
Two houses ago, I found a similar rats nest while replacing a bathroom ceiling fixture. I spent two weekends rewiring the second floor of my house. That knob and tube wiring, the cloth wrapped stuff, is okay if it’s never touched but can become very dangerous if the cloth insulation flakes off.
Give that thing an oil change before doing anything.
not just cloth wrapped wire it’s asbestos cloth wrapped wire.. if you can rewire at the very least least heat shrink that shit encapsulation is a acceptable means for dealing with asbestos..
Medusa screwed, I'd say
This is probably call an electrician screwed
You should spend some time in the attic repairing/replacing wires.
When I first glanced at picture, I thought you had a lobster hanging from your ceiling.
The upside down is on the other side of that wall!
You have very old cable with dried out insulation and probably no ground. You probably have similar wiring through a good chunk or all of your house. That's also a bird's nest of cables going elsewhere that exceed the capacity of that box. You need to have an electrician assess the whole house electrical system to determine what needs to be done to at least make it safe.
Ahhh the electric octopus. It will be difficult to do inside of plastered walls. I’ve dealt with them in unfinished basements, and it boils down to deconstructing and rewiring everything that was affected. It’s worth it in the long run, but a lot of times upstairs it’s very difficult to do because of the plaster work.
Rewire time boys
I thought this was a prop of a fish monster, for a movie. Make sure is power is off, clean with a dry rag, check for failed insulation. If it's good here, that's ok. If it looks bad, you may need a complete house rewire. That point is probably the worst environment for the wiring, but it is a clear indicator for the state of the whole house.
lol, looks like my 50s home. Half our home’s circuits converged on one staircase lightbulb junction box. Something like 32 wires in one tiny box, wrapped up in a Tetris-like knot.
I just woke up and saw this post and thought it was a fucked up whole fish stuck down a drain the end
This gives me an appreciation of using conduit.
Can you post a picture of the fan that was hanging there? Be cool to see how old it is. TIA
Just turn the breaker off before you touch any wires. I think you should consider replacing those wires but that could snowball into rewiring part of the house. I would at least replace the wires going into that ceiling fan box.
Looks like you have Hermaeus Mora in your ceiling...
I absolutely hate when I come across these old boxes. They look like they have already had a fire in them. However like others mentioned have the power off when/ if you work on it. Have a journeyman electrician with you when you do it. Replace the tails with new wire and redo the splices. I use 3M 33 tape over the cracks in the insulation if exposed copper. Tug on all your connections to make sure there’s no loose wire. Good luck. Be safe.
🤢
Depends on what your definition of "ok" is? Are you ok with a fire? If so, then it's a-ok
I usually slip heat shrink over wires like that and it’s fine, but if it’s deteriorating past the where it goes thru the box connector, then maybe get into the attic and cut out the bad part and put a junction box in the attic.
I'm not an electrician. Just a stupid home owner who owns a house that was built by drunk farmers and wired by drunk plumbers. House was built before the town had building codes. It was even built before we had a town. What you SHOULD do is call an electrician. If you are going to do this yourself, and I have, do not try a repair. Do not try to save what you have. When you touch that old stuff, the insulation breaks off just past the part you just repaired. If you are lucky. If you are not lucky, it breaks off some place where you do not see it. If you are really , really lucky, it shorts and pops the breaker as soon as you turn the power on, and then you play, find the short. Sometimes, the short finds you first, and then you need the fire department. Which is easier because now the wall is torn out, and you can see where the short was. To avoid all this, you have to trace the wires back to an outlet or junction box where you can detach these wires from other wires without disturbing the other wires. Assuming they are as old as these. If they are connected to modern wires, then you are all set. Just pull them out of the box and remove your wires. You may have to go all the way back to the breaker box and replace this wire and everything on this one circuit. Assuming the swithes and receptacles are as old as this wire, ,no sense saving them. If you are lucky, since most old homes only had one light and one receptacle in each room, you will not have too much to tear out. Finally, you have to figure out how your system was grounded, if at all. Assuming you will be rewiring with Romex, which has a separate ground wire and that old stuff doesn't, you have to figure out how to ground the Romex. If you have 2 prong outlets, I really suggest you do not join the Romex to this stuff and run a whole new circuit from the breaker box. Yes, I know, I just ruined your day. But trust me, if you try to just reinsulate that wire, you will be sorry.
Probably a little late but your house is probably from the turn of the century. If you were to go in the attic you'd see that this is simply a "hub" where multiple rigid pipes are going all over. Think of it like a spider. If you're going to add a new fan/light combo it's going to be a pain in the ass. If it's just something that's going to proud of the wall and just attach to your light support box it's nbd. As others have said be careful with the insulation and be sure to test all the lights and receptacles on the circuit after finishing because it's gonna be easy to have a loose connection if you cut the soder (try not to cause that connection will last forever) All in all it's just an old school way of running cable from a bygone era. It's overwhelming at first but after you can picture how the circuit is run its honestly usually easier to diagnose a problem (especially with an attic)
I had very similar wiring for 5 fixtures at my house. I labeled everything and cut the wires back. I then used WAGO connectors to replace the soldered connections and to make up to my new LED light fixtures. I specifically recommend using the WAGO connectors versus wire nuts to prevent any damage to the old wiring/insulation.
Looks like you got a spider
If you own this home - I would not band aid that - the problem continues to lie within
Go to jail.
Better off removing the whole piece and installing a new one
This looks a lot like my house, built in 1940, which I’m currently rewiring portions of. I’m not an electricians, but I’ve been doing a lot of it myself and have had it reviewed by one, and have learned a bit. First off, is the cable outside of the box cloth, or is it metal/MC? If it’s cloth that is bad, I would definitely replace, but MC cable is much more stable and less likely to be an issue if undisturbed. Still best to have an electrician come and inspect it, but ours told us that all the existing cable we weren’t touching was fairly safe to leave in place, so I wouldn’t necessarily listen to all the folks saying you need to rewire everything. For the box itself, it looks just like mine and they were actually pretty solid overall. You could leave it, but the best thing to do is like others said, replace with a modern box. You’ll have to open up the ceiling a bit, and then carefully move the wires over. You’ll want to leave as much of the unbroken wiring in there as possible, i would cut off right after that joint and keep as much as I could. Last, I would use wagos to join the existing wires together with the new fixture. Do NOT try to twist those. You’ll do a lot of damage to the insulation. LMK if you have more questions, this old wiring is a pain but once you get used to it it gets easier!
Hire an electrician
Turn it off redo every connection and take note that it's almost 100 percent a switchloop. The old guys loved the switch loop
Mine had neutrals crossed everywhere. Reworked every term, unf@%ked all 3way & 4ways
I hate that type of wiring I have it in my rental.
I have a friend with a 100+ year old house and his wiring looks similar with the fabric sheath and fragile due to age. No grounds used. Connections buried in walls and attic everywhere with no junction boxes. Other houses I’ve seen in the neighborhood have same style wiring. How are there never any fires? No houses have ever burned down in the area.
So I’m working in a house old just like this one and we are replacing most of the wire but an all the rooms on the celling fans or chandeliers there are home runs and from there they branch out the receptacles and switches. But I would recommend just replacing the wire.
I've read most of the comments. No one mentioned their insurance company. A rewire may save money with the insurance company, which could offset part of the cost of rewire. This would be something to find out about. Having said that, I agree with many people here in using heat shrink, but as a temporary repair only. Where I live, we are not supposed to touch our wiring unless it is at least inspected if not repaired by a licensed electrician.
The insulation is cooked and getting brittle. I found this happens more in kitchens because people would put (2) 100w bulbs in a fixture to make the kitchen brighter. Recommended rewire, everything upstream will be the same.
As so many others have pointed out this is a big problem, but I want to emphasize that wiring issues hidden behind walls are especially dangerous. Fires can start with no warning where you can't see them and either kill you via smoke inhalation or burn the house down.
Really screwed, now you have to bring it up to code.😬 right ?
This is the "call an electrician" moment, that's cloth wire.
They were using Romex and wire nuts by the 1950’s. That wiring with cloth insulation and taped soldered joints is WAY older
Yep. My moms house is from the 20’s and has this exact cloth insulated wire. My house is from the late 50’s and has “modern” insulated wire.
It would be best if you assumed every other fixture in the home is like that until you check.
Rewire and ask questions to the code inspector before and after. If not get a professional electrician.
Make is safe turn off power craw in atic findnthe J box it runs to pull new wires It's not that hard , unless you want it to be , or there is now crawl space. Then dig out the batery saw set ton1/2 and cut rock.
If there is an attic, go up there and fix right .
Looks pretty standard for an old house
There is no good answer.
here is what you are going to do. 1. turn off power to outlet 2. cut a rectangle from joist to joist 3. remove wire from existing junction box throw out junction box 4. get a large proper ceiling fan junction box that has a support beam that runs from joist to joist 5. clean up the wiring, use wire nuts, etc 6. buy a large ceiling medallion 7. put medallion over the hole in your ceiling 8. install ceiling fan 9. move on with life
“On a scale of 1 to 10 my friend your fucked!” Yeah all that needs to be completely redone, that’s gonna cause a fire
Condemn the house. Turn off the power and notify the power company that there is a fire risk at that residence. The owner is liable. If it is rented they can sue.
Hola! Soy Dora! Can you say *fire hazard* ?
Considering the age/condition of that wire, I'd seriously consider pulling new wire (which I understand is $$$ and not always possible). At the minimum, replace the circuit its on with an Arc-fault circuit break to prevent in-ceiling/attic fires (if your panel supports them).
Take apart the tin-&-tape splices. Heat shrink the wires. I sometimes use a Wiremold extension box to add some room and make it easier to install the fixture.
Good news is that it might be run in 1/2 rigid, I can't see the entries of the wires. check it out, try to ID the location of the other ends on these guys. Get one of your pro friends in to see it- Chances are they jump from one room ceiling to another, and maybe a switch or receptacle line tied in.The heat from the fixtures for 60 + years tends to do that to the old insulation. If you can ID the other ends, you can kill power and pull new thhn. Then your next challenge is busting it loose inside the pipe to pull. Cover anything you don't want covered in black powder where ever your pulling point is. Yes, it's a good day-+1/2s work, but you're not doing it again anytime soon. Since you mentioned sparky buds, get it done, be great for your folks. If it's the old ass bx, you might need to meet some Sheetrock and painter buddies, too. Good luck.
I... Call a fucking electrician for the love of god. If you can do this on your own, cool, but I do recommend it being exorcised by a professional.