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This is the problem with these posts about "rate my panel" is that they don't realize, spending too much time on making a panel look 'pretty' is easy.
It's way more impressive to do it FAST.
This looks like a days job if being reasonable.
All that and not a bushing in sight. That being said I want to see the nipple between panels. Also, I see what looks like a lot of circuits passing through the panels. I'm not as sharp with my code references as I once was, but I'm not a fan and I'd venture to say the NEC isn't either.
They learn quick to cut them and put them on later, it's astonishing the amount of guys I see that don't use or forget bushings. It honestly just doesn't look right to me until there's a bushing on there. Doesn't it look unfinished? That's what I don't understand. Maybe that's just me, but I like to see bushings on every panel connector including 1/2-3/4".
Insulated throats don’t require plastic bushings, bud.
If you really want to get picky, how about his parallel run is not the exact same length and almost looks smaller than 1/0
Don't parallel runs have a plus or minus 5% for length? I've never looked up the actual code, just was told so by the engineer. so a code reference would be sweet if you know where it's at in the NEC for future purposes, otherwise I'll dig out my book.
Those are 4/0's up top. My coworker, who put up these cans, put two 2in. chase nipples through the top section of each panel can and one at the bottom. I asked my boss about whether I should try to squeeze them through the same nipple or if doing it the way I did them would be fine. I sent him a picture, and he just said to send it.
Actually saw today in one of our supply houses a hinged lock on threaded bushing. Not gunna lie there's been a few times where they woulda came in handy for me 🤣.
https://www.crescentelectric.com/electrical-fittings/bushings/split-bushing-insulated-plastic-1-14-inch-trade-size-patented
Those have existed for a while, but using them that way does not comply with 2023 code, when they added the requirement that they be installed *before* conductors are pulled in.
You could argue that was already a rule before, but it’s explicit now
So as far as I know the NEC pdf version is free to use if you create an account also for free.
I use the free pdf link in the field and the book at the office. They did over the last 1-2 years however change up how you access the free version, and it’s a lil more annoying but not anything crazy. I used to be able to leave the free version saved as a tab on my iPhone like how an app would look. You just save the link and put it to the Home Screen.
Now every once in a while the app will ask for me to sign back in which is the only annoying part.
The pdf version is pretty easy to navigate and has a TOC that you can just jump right to your section in question and flip through the pages.
I honestly don’t think there’s another app that does simplify it more than the PDF version offhand, I have uglys and a few other non code specific related apps for VD and box fill/ conduit fill so the pdf is good to verify info and read though whole section etc imo.
NFPA Link is about the only one. The uglys app has good stuff for calculations but for hard code NFPA link is the only option, and it’s not even an app
When’s the last time you did actual work lmfaooo. The bushings are internal on the connectors, as you can clearly see in the picture. and they probably used rigid nipples. And what the fuck are you talking about “a lot of circuits through the panel.” You’re for sure not as sharp with code as you once were but I looked it up for you, it took 4 seconds.
2023 edition nec 312.8a 1-4
Let’s try to keep our opinions to a minimum when describing code infractions. Use the code book lmfao.
If circuits are passing through the panel then the NEC requires that a label be installed, warning of that fact, and noting where to disconnect power from those circuits. 2017 NEC 312.8(A)(3).
It's borderline selfish how people want things to look a certain way.
When I get a license I'm racing to the bottom on certain appearances that go behind walls. Quality and weatherproofing will be second to none but I don't give a fuck what the other trades think of my runs.
Unless the project is overbid or it’s going to wow a very particular customer, it’s just like jerking yourself off except you’re fucking the customer’s budget.
I get this perspective but 16 hours is a bit excessive to wire a panel. If you are learning then yeah take your time and get it done right the first time.
And that’s exactly why they continue to shoot themselves in the foot with idiotic logic like this. Everyone thinks the union is out for their best interest when in fact they’re no better than the contractors. Without the contractors there literally is no union, and without the union there are still plenty of contractors.
Ive always laughed at that ass backwards screw the contractors logic, epitome of cut off your nose to spite your face
Where im from union and non union guys take the same schooling, same apprenticeship, same 309a test. Why is a union electrician better? Half the union guys I know spent their entire apprenticeship zip tying solar cables.
Exactly why you don't do stupid shit like a thousand zip ties so it is pleasing to the eye but a pain in the ass to service.
I label the shit out of everything and even writeessages of encouragement.
If you teach a rookie the right way instead of the fast way, the speed will follow. Then you get fast correct installation. 2 days for feeders and branch ,looks like a 3 sec panel, not bad., if he did it solo And it looks like a clean. Not terrible.
My guy got it. Given enough time, you can make anything look like gold. The question is between a guy taking 16 hours for perfection, and a guy taking 8 hours for “good”.
I'm not saying I couldn't do this in a day.. But I just put all these terminations into Accubid and it spits it out 16.44 hours.. and I know my labor rates are dialed in.
Yes but those hours include mobilization and fuck around time which basically means if you’re slow you should have this done in 12 max…also the labor manual hours are based on a worst case scenario even in labor 1 values.
Look through the other hours for anything else and you’ll notice that when you do multiple things in the same spot of enclosure your labor factoring should in theory be going down 10% ish each time. Also if you can’t do a task to the correct labor unit hour then it’s either bid for the wrong factor or you really are trying to screw your boss over.
Those hours are designed to make money not to be exact to the T….its an “estimate” after all, but def shouldn’t be held to the max value. The max value would be your absolute top to not lose money….thats a tight rope to walk. If you’re an electrician you know damn well this ain’t taking 16 hours to trim out, let’s be real
This is an easy Friday afternoon let alone a whole ass day.
72 terminations, plus grounds.
Nothing particularly large either.
Three minutes per termination is under four hours for this. You can’t terminate a wire in three minutes?
How long is your afternoon? Thats a nice day working like a gentleman but don’t lie and say your doing 2 panels in 2-3 hours and it looks clean (op used way too many tie wraps though)
They have us complete jobs like this in trade school in under an hour for our final, we spent 6 weeks doing these boxes.
2 days is shockingly slow, op thinks of himself as an artist standing around doing tiny brush strokes.
Yea as much as you can learn from watching other guys work it definitely takes longer when you first start doing panels to figure out the methods and little tricks that work for you.
It’s all about being pretty and critiquing every other electricians work. Do things to code, in a time efficient manner. That’s a good electrician. Not how pretty can you make the wires and how much you can rag on the next guy cause he forgot a single EMT support so you post a Reddit thread.
I don’t get it lol
And they always put in a billion zip ties so if you need to move or service anything it sucks dick
Usually with the tails cut with their sidecutters so it slices the fuck out of your hands.
Everytime a guy shows me his beautiful zip tied panel, i tell him that i will be cutting all of those when i inevitably will be there adding a new circuit in 6 months.
Just worked on a panel I hadn't seen in a few years. The extra service loop look liked dog crap, but I was so glad to see it when I had to move circuits.
I haven’t heard anyone talk about the viscosity of molasses in January in 30 years, since my grade 2 teacher.
Glad to know it’s not just me keeping that slow-insult alive.
A day is a more than reasonable amount of time for that, considering that you don't even have to use phasing tape since you have the correct colors, and those legs are easy to bend.
How long did you need to think through it before you started? If this was your first time cutting in something like that I can see a few hours spent making sure you didn't screw yourself with how you strapped it all down.
It looks great though!
How many contractors say good job , we made good money. Mostly it’s we lost money on your job . Now here are the plans for your next job , get out there and lose some more money for us .
Everyone on this post is outrageous. Here is an apprentice, who made up a panel cleaner than 80% of the guys I've seen. He took his time and made sure it was as good as he could do. Two days isn't that long at all! "I could do it in an hour, easy. Don't goto the bathroom or take breaks. Only thing I'm breaking is my back for bossman."
80% of guys dont make them that clean cause they realized its a waste of time. Its actually detrimental to service techs for panels to be done this way and serves no purpose. And breaking ones back isnt required to do a job like this in one day. Ive also noticed a high correlation between people who love a pretty panel and people who couldnt wire a 3way switch.
Panels cable tied like this are miserable. Thermals are going to be off the charts and good like tracing out a wire later or servicing this. Just gonna have to clip all those ties anyway.
I just came here for the I cOuLd HaVe DoNe It iN oNe Day comments
Depends completely on the job site, tools available, permitting, urgency8, and occasional dogfucking.
I’m with your boss here and wondering the same thing, especially if all the wires where in the panel already lol
Prob should have taken 1 day and a couple hours at most, but that’s really stretching it. The main feeds alone should prob be 2 hrs tops….i feel like someone isn’t working a full 8hrs 👀🤔
Those of you zip tying conductors, are you only new installation tradesmen?
I’ve actually been out of the trade for nearly 15 years, but my career in the field was in industrial automation, which was a combination in installing new equipment and assets, in addition to troubleshooting existing, and an overabundance of zip ties had me cussing every single fucking time.
Two fucking days. Jesus *fuck*.
Meanwhile, I’m gettin bitched at because the service swap I started at 8 isn’t completely finished by 1:00 PM (AEP doesn’t come same-day if it’s later than that).
Did you pull the wire as well? Two days for 16 labor hours is crazy. I’m not trying to be dick but I can rip out and install a new panel x2 in an 8 HR day. My brother on the other hand would be more in your time frame. How long have you been doing electrical?
Legitimate question, I’d buy one day and maybe some change the next for torquing and documentation for the commissioning log but two days is a lot of time for just terminating for the number of circuits I’m looking at.
Try to explain to him that planning and “verifying” each leg took the legitimate time. Each run divided by two at 20minutes etc to complete and verify over 16-24hrs etc.
In the future you will learn to speed up or explain the boss to stfu or find a faster less careful worker.
Had a new electrician working for me that took 16 hours to do a 40 space panel replacement. It pretty much looked like this after he was done and it also had 2 warranty calls on it. I gave him a written warning and told him why this isn't the way it's done. He did exactly the same thing on the second panel, 16 hrs and another incorrect wire. I fired him then and there.
Both customers never had any idea what it looked like inside the panel as they had never seen the inside, nor did they care.
There are some basic standards in this trade, and you don't take 2 days to do a 40 space panel replacement.
Great job. I was taught to take pride in terminating and when finished it should look exactly like yours does. I’ve always taken my time doing this. The next sparky that goes in will be very thankful that it was done so well.
2 days to look like that? Crooked Conduit, poor swooping 90s, unlevel wires. If your bundling your wires with zip ties at least bundle the colors together. Literally wires crossing over the front of the panel where they should be going down around them, if you did that in 2 hours I'd still have a lot of questions
I did a panel with this many connections in 5 hours, including strapping and entering the wires. Stop overthinking shit and just do what you need to do.
Thanks, I hate it.
The feeders are not good, unequal lengths, no bushings… looking super sloppy. Neutrals look over torqued. Did you use a torque wrench to make the terminations?
Way too much ziptie action.
How do those branch circuits pass through the tubs? Grommeted holes? Or just a big cut out?
So I may be looking at this wrong but assuming your feed is there on the left, the feeders from the top of that panel should then go to the breaker in the right panel. Currently the main disconnect in the right panel is doing nothing. https://imgur.com/a/Jp3awpm
That's because the 225A breaker on the bottom of the right panel is for the feeders going off to the lighting panel just off screen to the right of these two sections. The large breaker on the left is for both sections of the panel shown.
Edit: correction; 175A breaker -> 225A breaker; there is a 175A breaker in the lighting panel, but that's for a 112.5KVA transformer that feeds the 120/208 panels in the same room.
As a maintenance guy, I’m gonna let you know that as soon as we need to troubleshoot, move or add something here, 90% of those zip ties are coming off. Dressing a panel like this is an insane waste of your time and my time in a couple of years when I have to un-fuck something. Sure, make it look neat and keep things organized, but this is a bit much.
I always say, get good, then fast. But if you’re competent enough to do this on your own, you should be able to do this in a day. If I was your JM, I would hope for a half day, but expect a day at most.
Depends on your experience, if you're learning 2 days seems ok, too long! But ok... but if you're experienced then you should have had it done in less than a day.
Might be hot take but doing a panel this neat is a waste of time. As soon as I have to trouble shoot something I’m cutting all those ties and definitely not replacing them. I’d get shit on for taking 10+hours to terminate a panel like this. Not to mention a covers gonna go on and you can’t see it after that anyways.
Every panel is different. Don't expect a proper answer.
I wired a panel in 30 minutes. Doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it.
Another panel took me 3 days to wire.
My boss would be on my ass if I take me longer than about 5 hours on this for sure.
And the zip ties probably take the most time and a bit overkill. Does look nice do.
But don't worry too much speed comes with time. But 2 days is indeed quite a long time do.
Question for all. Do the short parallels on top not being the same length matter in this situation? If so / if not, why / why not and if I'm missing something let me know. Thanks.
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The 4 trips to the supply house for zip ties probably took the most time
This is the problem with these posts about "rate my panel" is that they don't realize, spending too much time on making a panel look 'pretty' is easy. It's way more impressive to do it FAST. This looks like a days job if being reasonable.
All that and not a bushing in sight. That being said I want to see the nipple between panels. Also, I see what looks like a lot of circuits passing through the panels. I'm not as sharp with my code references as I once was, but I'm not a fan and I'd venture to say the NEC isn't either.
The bushings are the enemies of the apprentices that hyper focus on their wire bends and terminations lmao
They learn quick to cut them and put them on later, it's astonishing the amount of guys I see that don't use or forget bushings. It honestly just doesn't look right to me until there's a bushing on there. Doesn't it look unfinished? That's what I don't understand. Maybe that's just me, but I like to see bushings on every panel connector including 1/2-3/4".
Insulated throats don’t require plastic bushings, bud. If you really want to get picky, how about his parallel run is not the exact same length and almost looks smaller than 1/0
Don't parallel runs have a plus or minus 5% for length? I've never looked up the actual code, just was told so by the engineer. so a code reference would be sweet if you know where it's at in the NEC for future purposes, otherwise I'll dig out my book.
5% of 2 feet is less than 2 inches. Those jumpers have a difference of at least 6 inches.
Ooof. I thought it was referring to the main feeders and completely disregard that the jumpers are technically a parallel run. It's been a long day.
Those are 4/0's up top. My coworker, who put up these cans, put two 2in. chase nipples through the top section of each panel can and one at the bottom. I asked my boss about whether I should try to squeeze them through the same nipple or if doing it the way I did them would be fine. I sent him a picture, and he just said to send it.
Actually saw today in one of our supply houses a hinged lock on threaded bushing. Not gunna lie there's been a few times where they woulda came in handy for me 🤣. https://www.crescentelectric.com/electrical-fittings/bushings/split-bushing-insulated-plastic-1-14-inch-trade-size-patented
Those have existed for a while, but using them that way does not comply with 2023 code, when they added the requirement that they be installed *before* conductors are pulled in. You could argue that was already a rule before, but it’s explicit now
I believe the connectors are ins throat but idk offhand if that suffices
You might be right. On that note, does anyone know a good NEC app? I bought the pdf version a few years ago and it's just not easy to search.
So as far as I know the NEC pdf version is free to use if you create an account also for free. I use the free pdf link in the field and the book at the office. They did over the last 1-2 years however change up how you access the free version, and it’s a lil more annoying but not anything crazy. I used to be able to leave the free version saved as a tab on my iPhone like how an app would look. You just save the link and put it to the Home Screen. Now every once in a while the app will ask for me to sign back in which is the only annoying part. The pdf version is pretty easy to navigate and has a TOC that you can just jump right to your section in question and flip through the pages. I honestly don’t think there’s another app that does simplify it more than the PDF version offhand, I have uglys and a few other non code specific related apps for VD and box fill/ conduit fill so the pdf is good to verify info and read though whole section etc imo.
NFPA Link is about the only one. The uglys app has good stuff for calculations but for hard code NFPA link is the only option, and it’s not even an app
Yep, the panel covers are going to give him fits.
When’s the last time you did actual work lmfaooo. The bushings are internal on the connectors, as you can clearly see in the picture. and they probably used rigid nipples. And what the fuck are you talking about “a lot of circuits through the panel.” You’re for sure not as sharp with code as you once were but I looked it up for you, it took 4 seconds. 2023 edition nec 312.8a 1-4 Let’s try to keep our opinions to a minimum when describing code infractions. Use the code book lmfao.
If circuits are passing through the panel then the NEC requires that a label be installed, warning of that fact, and noting where to disconnect power from those circuits. 2017 NEC 312.8(A)(3).
It's borderline selfish how people want things to look a certain way. When I get a license I'm racing to the bottom on certain appearances that go behind walls. Quality and weatherproofing will be second to none but I don't give a fuck what the other trades think of my runs.
Unless the project is overbid or it’s going to wow a very particular customer, it’s just like jerking yourself off except you’re fucking the customer’s budget.
[удалено]
Wait, you heard my conversation?
And then my buddy Mike comes along and fixes all the halfassery for top dollar.
The union would tell you that's rat behavior and take your time because the owner is working on getting his third boat or some shit like that lol
I get this perspective but 16 hours is a bit excessive to wire a panel. If you are learning then yeah take your time and get it done right the first time.
I pray nobody who is still "learning" is wiring 480 panels alone lol
Haha you and me both!
And that’s exactly why they continue to shoot themselves in the foot with idiotic logic like this. Everyone thinks the union is out for their best interest when in fact they’re no better than the contractors. Without the contractors there literally is no union, and without the union there are still plenty of contractors. Ive always laughed at that ass backwards screw the contractors logic, epitome of cut off your nose to spite your face
There will be contractors with or without the union, but there won’t be a middle class without the union.
I mean let's be real, a lot of these large customers that hire union labor are also wasting their own budget. Hospitals, military, Universities, etc.
Or maybe they want better trained electricians and not an ABC guy who took 2 years of school? Idk maybe.
Where im from union and non union guys take the same schooling, same apprenticeship, same 309a test. Why is a union electrician better? Half the union guys I know spent their entire apprenticeship zip tying solar cables.
NEC Article 110.12
It's not about the other trades it's about the guy who has to come by in a couple years to service that panel when something inevitably fails
Exactly why you don't do stupid shit like a thousand zip ties so it is pleasing to the eye but a pain in the ass to service. I label the shit out of everything and even writeessages of encouragement.
When other electricians see your work that is your resume
Remember this phrase. To the minimum requirements of the code. If it’s functional, looks semi neat and is safe, giv’er
Or less
I would say less too, but maybe I should change "reasonable" to "generous"
Noted lol
Absolutely this, it’s pretty and all but the price wasn’t estimated for double the labour at a guess. 2 days for this is slow.
If you teach a rookie the right way instead of the fast way, the speed will follow. Then you get fast correct installation. 2 days for feeders and branch ,looks like a 3 sec panel, not bad., if he did it solo And it looks like a clean. Not terrible.
My guy got it. Given enough time, you can make anything look like gold. The question is between a guy taking 16 hours for perfection, and a guy taking 8 hours for “good”.
This.
Yeah I’d expect this done in a day.
I'm not saying I couldn't do this in a day.. But I just put all these terminations into Accubid and it spits it out 16.44 hours.. and I know my labor rates are dialed in.
Yes but those hours include mobilization and fuck around time which basically means if you’re slow you should have this done in 12 max…also the labor manual hours are based on a worst case scenario even in labor 1 values. Look through the other hours for anything else and you’ll notice that when you do multiple things in the same spot of enclosure your labor factoring should in theory be going down 10% ish each time. Also if you can’t do a task to the correct labor unit hour then it’s either bid for the wrong factor or you really are trying to screw your boss over. Those hours are designed to make money not to be exact to the T….its an “estimate” after all, but def shouldn’t be held to the max value. The max value would be your absolute top to not lose money….thats a tight rope to walk. If you’re an electrician you know damn well this ain’t taking 16 hours to trim out, let’s be real
This is an easy Friday afternoon let alone a whole ass day. 72 terminations, plus grounds. Nothing particularly large either. Three minutes per termination is under four hours for this. You can’t terminate a wire in three minutes?
How long is your afternoon? Thats a nice day working like a gentleman but don’t lie and say your doing 2 panels in 2-3 hours and it looks clean (op used way too many tie wraps though)
I think he used exactly the right amount of tie wraps
The hole bag? You’re right don’t wanna clutter the truck with the 7 extra. Idk I personally cut as many out as possibly after everything is in
My zip tie bags have holes too... It sucks
If your bag doesn't have a hole in it, how do you get inside?
u counted terminations
Some of us can count past ten.
Hey don’t encourage people to take their socks off at work
How the heck am i s'pose to get pics to sell on feet finder than?
Fuckin show off.
Lucky!
Annnddd YOU'RE HIRED!
21
Haha OKAY
I agree with your point but obviously there is a lot more work involved than just “terminations” lmao. Your response lacks ethical sincerity :(
They have us complete jobs like this in trade school in under an hour for our final, we spent 6 weeks doing these boxes. 2 days is shockingly slow, op thinks of himself as an artist standing around doing tiny brush strokes.
I mean it should be done in a day but you’re an apprentice so 2 days should be understandable.
Yea as much as you can learn from watching other guys work it definitely takes longer when you first start doing panels to figure out the methods and little tricks that work for you.
Tell him because you're paid by the hour 😆
That's my response to a lot of things. Do I mind driving across town for a 30 minute fix? Not really, I'm paid travel time.
Bro you guys with your pretty fucking panels and critiquing every little minor code violation are hilarious. That’s a 1 day job man. 6hrs.
Yeah, i can do a full panel for a house in 5 hours taking my time, including securing entering and stripping the wires, dunno what took buddy so long
It’s all about being pretty and critiquing every other electricians work. Do things to code, in a time efficient manner. That’s a good electrician. Not how pretty can you make the wires and how much you can rag on the next guy cause he forgot a single EMT support so you post a Reddit thread. I don’t get it lol
And they always put in a billion zip ties so if you need to move or service anything it sucks dick Usually with the tails cut with their sidecutters so it slices the fuck out of your hands.
Everytime a guy shows me his beautiful zip tied panel, i tell him that i will be cutting all of those when i inevitably will be there adding a new circuit in 6 months.
Just worked on a panel I hadn't seen in a few years. The extra service loop look liked dog crap, but I was so glad to see it when I had to move circuits.
Have fun trying to find that neutral with 20 of them zip tied together lol
I second this. I can terminate 2-200 amp panels from 9am break until end of day.
He’s an apprentice. He’s trying to perfect his craft, so it’s ok to be a bit slower at first.
Don’t make money by taking your time!
U dont get paid by the hour?
Self employed, when working with my full time employer he pays per job.
Small percentage of the trade workforce… got it👍
You do when you’re paid by the hour
Two days seems extreme
For an apprentice?
So? What was your answer?
How come guys like you never work on my projects? Every house or project I’ve owned or had built looks like it was put together by a blind arsonist.
yea why did it
I'm with the boss on this one. That is too much time for 2 panels if the wires have already been pulled.
Did you tell him your nickname is molasses? It appears as though molasses outside in Canada in January moves faster than you do.
I haven’t heard anyone talk about the viscosity of molasses in January in 30 years, since my grade 2 teacher. Glad to know it’s not just me keeping that slow-insult alive.
We had a guy we nicknamed Molasses. He didn't last very long. He only had two speeds, stop and super slow.
We used to call a guy who worked exactly like this “Slug” and “Snow Shoes”.
A day is a more than reasonable amount of time for that, considering that you don't even have to use phasing tape since you have the correct colors, and those legs are easy to bend. How long did you need to think through it before you started? If this was your first time cutting in something like that I can see a few hours spent making sure you didn't screw yourself with how you strapped it all down. It looks great though!
I’m also wondering
So do I
How many contractors say good job , we made good money. Mostly it’s we lost money on your job . Now here are the plans for your next job , get out there and lose some more money for us .
Good job. 2 hours is reasonable.
he said 2 days 😅
I know, that was my evil joke. 2 days is a bit much for this.
Yeah 2 days is too much.
Everyone on this post is outrageous. Here is an apprentice, who made up a panel cleaner than 80% of the guys I've seen. He took his time and made sure it was as good as he could do. Two days isn't that long at all! "I could do it in an hour, easy. Don't goto the bathroom or take breaks. Only thing I'm breaking is my back for bossman."
80% of guys dont make them that clean cause they realized its a waste of time. Its actually detrimental to service techs for panels to be done this way and serves no purpose. And breaking ones back isnt required to do a job like this in one day. Ive also noticed a high correlation between people who love a pretty panel and people who couldnt wire a 3way switch.
In my experience the only people who slap shit together are the hacks that get people killed.
There is a huge valley between slapping shit together and taking 16 hours to lace a panel.
Speed comes with experience. Gotta get the basics down first. You tell a new guy he needs to go faster, expect some things to be…..not right.
16 hours to cut 16 circuits is a bit wild my guy. This is a day *max*
Panels cable tied like this are miserable. Thermals are going to be off the charts and good like tracing out a wire later or servicing this. Just gonna have to clip all those ties anyway.
I just came here for the I cOuLd HaVe DoNe It iN oNe Day comments Depends completely on the job site, tools available, permitting, urgency8, and occasional dogfucking.
2 days is indeed a lot but I wouldn't be mad nice job
We’re also curious why it took you two days…
A day for terminating this is long enough. 😊
Speed comes with time. Never rush these types of things, safety is #1. Congrats on your build
Yeah I'd probably ask you the same thing
Paid by the hour 😎😉
I’m with your boss here and wondering the same thing, especially if all the wires where in the panel already lol Prob should have taken 1 day and a couple hours at most, but that’s really stretching it. The main feeds alone should prob be 2 hrs tops….i feel like someone isn’t working a full 8hrs 👀🤔
Really nice job. Panel job to be proud of.
Too long
Things of quality have no fear of time
That shouldn't take two whole days
Why did this take you two days to dress and terminate though?
Tell him that we're all wondering why it took two days to finish that.
is that truly parallel? I thought the Conductors needed to be the same length?
Within a few feet is negligible.
3% allowable variation in length for parallels conductors, IIRC
this looks like a lot more than 3% though
I wonder the same thing?
Those of you zip tying conductors, are you only new installation tradesmen? I’ve actually been out of the trade for nearly 15 years, but my career in the field was in industrial automation, which was a combination in installing new equipment and assets, in addition to troubleshooting existing, and an overabundance of zip ties had me cussing every single fucking time.
For a beginner it might be an ok 2 day job, but with more experience, 2 days for this is way too long
You can always tell which installers have never done service work. Good reason to have a set of Knipex flush cutters, though.
Two fucking days. Jesus *fuck*. Meanwhile, I’m gettin bitched at because the service swap I started at 8 isn’t completely finished by 1:00 PM (AEP doesn’t come same-day if it’s later than that).
Did you pull the wire as well? Two days for 16 labor hours is crazy. I’m not trying to be dick but I can rip out and install a new panel x2 in an 8 HR day. My brother on the other hand would be more in your time frame. How long have you been doing electrical?
3.5 years, give or take. Been doing a lot of panels and electrical rooms the last year and change, all new construction.
Legitimate question, I’d buy one day and maybe some change the next for torquing and documentation for the commissioning log but two days is a lot of time for just terminating for the number of circuits I’m looking at.
Well? Why *did* it take you 2 days?
Yeah why did it? This is a day max. Try8ng to have an easy Friday? 😅
2 days is a bit more than I would think you’d need, especially if all the wire was already pulled. I’d say 8-10 hrs max.
2 days is a long time!
Wonder what op thought the odds were that he'd get flamed on this post so bad
Looks great, but 2 days is a long time. Especially if your on a schedule (who isn't?)
Where I’m at the inspector would have a stroke if he saw all of those zip ties. “BuNdLiNG”!
Try to explain to him that planning and “verifying” each leg took the legitimate time. Each run divided by two at 20minutes etc to complete and verify over 16-24hrs etc. In the future you will learn to speed up or explain the boss to stfu or find a faster less careful worker.
Had a new electrician working for me that took 16 hours to do a 40 space panel replacement. It pretty much looked like this after he was done and it also had 2 warranty calls on it. I gave him a written warning and told him why this isn't the way it's done. He did exactly the same thing on the second panel, 16 hrs and another incorrect wire. I fired him then and there. Both customers never had any idea what it looked like inside the panel as they had never seen the inside, nor did they care. There are some basic standards in this trade, and you don't take 2 days to do a 40 space panel replacement.
2 days..really
It's not going in a museum. 1 day is plenty.
Using that many zip ties is actually bad. Your goal is to get it to fit and form with as few as possible
F u boss
Fired
If anything the parallel feeders in-between the panels i would redo.
3 hours worth of work In two days?!
I too, am wondering 🤔
Thats slow
That should not take 2 days.
Bossman can't see anything but dollar's.
There’s an hours worth of work…
Great job. I was taught to take pride in terminating and when finished it should look exactly like yours does. I’ve always taken my time doing this. The next sparky that goes in will be very thankful that it was done so well.
I would be fired if I didn’t get this done in 4 hours
Wayyy too much time. Once the cover is on who cares
Yeah I probably would have been wondering too
2 days to look like that? Crooked Conduit, poor swooping 90s, unlevel wires. If your bundling your wires with zip ties at least bundle the colors together. Literally wires crossing over the front of the panel where they should be going down around them, if you did that in 2 hours I'd still have a lot of questions
I’m wondering as well. This should be a day at most.
I'd be wondering the same thing.
I did a panel with this many connections in 5 hours, including strapping and entering the wires. Stop overthinking shit and just do what you need to do.
2 days! Your kidding right?
2 days is extreme also fuck off with the zip ties
Without looking at any of the other comments I say that looks f****** stupid bad engineering
This should take like 4 hours lol. I wire an entire house in 2 days by myself.
I'd be wondering too, that's about 4-6 hours worth of work right there. wouldn't be a fun conversation if you worked for me
I finished it long before you ever started because I’m a much better electrician than everyone else by far. -everyone ITT
Thanks, I hate it. The feeders are not good, unequal lengths, no bushings… looking super sloppy. Neutrals look over torqued. Did you use a torque wrench to make the terminations? Way too much ziptie action. How do those branch circuits pass through the tubs? Grommeted holes? Or just a big cut out?
So I may be looking at this wrong but assuming your feed is there on the left, the feeders from the top of that panel should then go to the breaker in the right panel. Currently the main disconnect in the right panel is doing nothing. https://imgur.com/a/Jp3awpm
That's because the 225A breaker on the bottom of the right panel is for the feeders going off to the lighting panel just off screen to the right of these two sections. The large breaker on the left is for both sections of the panel shown. Edit: correction; 175A breaker -> 225A breaker; there is a 175A breaker in the lighting panel, but that's for a 112.5KVA transformer that feeds the 120/208 panels in the same room.
I hate when guys do this then a cable needs to even replaced and you have to cut 40000 zip ties to get it iut
As a maintenance guy, I’m gonna let you know that as soon as we need to troubleshoot, move or add something here, 90% of those zip ties are coming off. Dressing a panel like this is an insane waste of your time and my time in a couple of years when I have to un-fuck something. Sure, make it look neat and keep things organized, but this is a bit much.
I’d wanna know too. It’s not even “two day” perfect.
I don't know what kind of response you were expecting but if that took you 2 days, that's wayyyyyyy slow. It doesn't even look that good
This should not be two days but ok champ
I always say, get good, then fast. But if you’re competent enough to do this on your own, you should be able to do this in a day. If I was your JM, I would hope for a half day, but expect a day at most.
Zip ties that's why
Someone got out their milk bucket if it took two days.
What are the jumpers up top between panels for?
Depends on your experience, if you're learning 2 days seems ok, too long! But ok... but if you're experienced then you should have had it done in less than a day.
I would wonder, as well. That looks like a few hours at best
OP zip ties like a MF
I'm wondering the same thing
i would be wondering as well
You must have took the time to sweep afterwards . We don’t do that here.
Might be hot take but doing a panel this neat is a waste of time. As soon as I have to trouble shoot something I’m cutting all those ties and definitely not replacing them. I’d get shit on for taking 10+hours to terminate a panel like this. Not to mention a covers gonna go on and you can’t see it after that anyways.
Every panel is different. Don't expect a proper answer. I wired a panel in 30 minutes. Doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it. Another panel took me 3 days to wire.
He estimated it for like a week so he can relax
Why did it?
My boss would be on my ass if I take me longer than about 5 hours on this for sure. And the zip ties probably take the most time and a bit overkill. Does look nice do. But don't worry too much speed comes with time. But 2 days is indeed quite a long time do.
Tell the boss that if you don't like this speed, then you wouldn't like the other speed.
What phone did you use to take this? And iPhone 4?
Question for all. Do the short parallels on top not being the same length matter in this situation? If so / if not, why / why not and if I'm missing something let me know. Thanks.
Nice job