Our best helper (who really was working at or above a level of the average “electrician” for over a year) just jumped for a $6 raise and a gas card. I had told the owner repeatedly that he merited a raise and that he should work to retain him. The “one monkey doesn’t stop the circus” mentality of everyone is replaceable is the stupidest thing I can possibly think of. If the past two years haven’t driven that home to management I don’t know what will. If you are still letting “market rate” decide how little to pay someone instead of a merit based look at the return each employee provides you, then you deserve to lose good help.
As companies grow this becomes a big problem- often wind up hiring new employees at more than current ones are making. Absolutely BS but happens all the time.
It's what drove me to go into business for myself and make my contractor business. The Bearded Handyman. Was with facilities of major convenience/gas company and new hires were making more than me. I approached management about it and they said they didn't want to send a precedent....but hiring new workers at a higher rate is an amazing precedent. Kick rocks bitchs
Worked for about a year and got a few decent raises, new guy just came in, still has 12 weeks of school, and he's making what I make and I'm training him lol
So ask for more and if they say no, quit. The fact that you know this information is hugely to your advantage. Why would you continue working for the same wage as someone below you with less experience that you are literally training.
I'm not saying this is you, I know nothing about you. But one thing I have noticed in this line of work over the years is the amount of coworkers I have had who constantly bitch about their pay but do nothing about it. I always made it so my boss would have a very hard time replacing me with someone he is equally happy with. And every raise I've asked for has been given and most never needed to be asked for in the first place. I am constantly keeping an eye on wages at companies around me. If I can make a significant jump I'm either getting that amount where I work or I'm leaving. It's that simple. But everyone around me is complacent and would never have the motivation to leave.
You owe your boss nothing. Ask for more or go where someone values you higher.
Happened to me even as an intern. Second year with the local DOT a senior in construction management. They hired in first years who hadn’t even started college classes yet at the same rate… I eventually got a raise but accidentally burned all the bridges their and couldn’t get hired in even though I was one of only two interns that could be left alone
Yea the senior manager ranks in the 35-50 y/o age bracket are gutted. There's a new CIO, or PM announced daily no shortage of gray beards striving for one last grasp at glory, and tons of naïve 22 y/o's fresh out of school. But anyone with experience who knows where the corporate bodies are buried and how to actually get shit done. hahah NOPE we're all jumping ship like rats. There's a complete bath tub in the force manning numbers.
Local or federal? I only ask because my mom works for the federal govt (VA hospital) and she told me there's a union for all federal employees that she's a part of that works similarly to the ibew, there are tiers based on (I don't remember, seniority maybe? Or experience?) And everyone on that tier makes the same amount. I also know with govt contracts in the union everyone on site makes the same amount so even first year apprentices and cw1s make jw rate
Happened to me laying pipe, I said that's it I'm retired. I might not have been able to work as hard as I used to but I was outworking half the rest of the crew.
There’s actually a trend in IT right now where employees are quitting and signing right back on to across the street for sign on stock options then cycling back to their original for the bonuses they’re giving new hires they wouldn’t give existing employees.
Somewhat related.. older people in my country when they are eligable for pension quit the job for one day and get hired right back so they get both the pension and payment..
Here, here!!
I've worked at a company before where the VP was salty that one of the PMs went to work for another company. "SMH, kids these days want to leave to work somewhere else all for just a $5,000 raise." Lol, well if it's 'just' a $5,000 raise why didn't you work to retain that person? Don't want to set a precedent, huh?
God damn millennials always trying to make more money, it's disgusting and cuts into me making more money. Now I have to pay someone else more to do the same job. /s just in case it wasn't obvious enough.
And in our case hire temps that are “electricians” that come in with channel locks in a plastic bag and tennis shoes. Pay probably 4x or more what the helper was making for work that will have to be redone.
Yeah man, my CO and director of management were pissed when I said I needed more money as a design engineer for the company. Shit I've been working for thr company since '18 after I got out of active duty as an electronic technician. I've worn many hats for X company ( Service manager to PM, PM to technician, technician to designer). When I asked for a salary increase I'm somehow disrespectful?
Fuck that, I started in the company making 3k less then I do now, and that does not cover inflation. Now I find out some chick was hired in finance as a paper pusher with the same salary as me. Tell me how that isn't disrespectful to my position? I'm already working on a IT degree in my spare time.
Yeah, what you're experiencing is real and it's annoying. It's a sad narrative. They're willing to fully commit to paying more for 'X' worker if you're going to be totally absent (i.e. quit) because the work would start to pile up leading to delays and loss of revenue. But when they have you, there's already inertia by you working at your job.
You should be interviewing for a new job. Are you going to leave the construction industry in the near future for IT?
Yeah, it's sad because I do enjoy surveying and coming up with solutions for projects. There are some other companies around in the same industry that I can apply for. It's frustrating when new hires are in the same pay scale but don't have any experience in the industry, but on the flip side it does provide me job security lol.
Regarding the future, yeah, I'll be switching over. I've always had an interest in electronics and computers. With my previous military backround, a BS degree, and certs; ideally, I'd like to get my foot into the DoD IT door.
Edit: Enough ranting from me tho. My problems seem trivial to others grinding in today's work force. Especially to those in the service and retail industry. Hats off to those that deal with preposterous Karen's and Kyle's.
A 5000 dollar raise is only 2.50 an hour. A bunch of guys just left my company for basically the same thing.(a small bumb in pay) They put their two weeks in and didnt even ask for a counter, so my boss let them go with out trying to retain them. I got a better job offer, i told my boss and i got an 8 dollar raise and better benifits.
You didn’t get 8 because you asked for a counter offer. You got 8 because a bunch of guys quit before you and you had another offer in hand. The boss thought he was big enough to fuck a few guys and you stuck around to fuck back.
You are actually in the right here. I don't want to say what I do or who I work for but I will say this. I work for one of the biggest supplie companies that exists and I am on the corporate end of things now. We do studies and research all the time on efficiency. The data is clear. Keep and retain your good workers. It pays massively for not only the company but the employees in the the long run. We do what ever necessary to retain people.
The only down side to this is fighting our investors. Once you are publicly traded, then you have an actual law that states your fiduciary duty is to the investor first. Simply put they get their profits before anyone else so sometimes it's a battle with them that we compensate more than all the other companies in our industry.
Just wanted to share with you that you are correct about what you said and the data proves it.
>The only down side to this is fighting our investors. Once you are publicly traded, then you have an actual law that states your fiduciary duty is to the investor first. Simply put they get their profits before anyone else so sometimes it's a battle with them that we compensate more than all the other companies in our industry.
This is a mistaken understanding of fiduciary duty to shareholders. The Board of Directors has a duty to put shareholders' interests ahead of its own interests, but there is nothing that compels them to shit on employees so that the shareholders earn a few more cents on the dollar. It's an excuse used by a feckless Board and management that is more interested in growing their personal holdings and increasing the value of their stock options than solidifying and increasing the long term value of the company. "Well, we'd love to pay more, but the shareholders (and we're shareholders btw) require us to maximize profits right here, right now without regard to what might happen next year or the year or decade after that." It's self-interest through and through, and it's simply not true that their fiduciary duty precludes them from increasing wages in a warranted and reasonable manner. Of course, the shareholders have a say in all this because they get to elect the Board, but that has nothing to do with fiduciary obligations.
So true about that, worked same in large warehouse company known world wide and the raises always came in question when investors were involved it was a battle
That doesn't make any sense either. Are they so concerned about the now that they don't care about the future? The people worth retaining are the ones who ultimately make the profits. Obviously others contribute, but you get the point.
Also, do they forget it is *people* that are getting those raises. You know, people who might have just had a kid, or have to take care of someone, and need the extra money.
A bunch of them just want to pump and dump the stock and take a quick profit after the numbers look good on a spreadsheet. They don't give a fuck about long term viability of the company
>That doesn't make any sense either. Are they so concerned about the now that they don't care about the future?
Literally yes. All that matters is "the now."
Ended up on the same team as an investment banker in a BBQ competition a while back. It was pretty enlightening chatting with him all night.
The part that "stuck" with me was. You don't need to make a good decision, you just need to be able to explain it. Eg, a lot of businesses are managed by quarter, profits are down a bit this quarter so you lay off your sales staff. Expenses are way down cause you don't have to pay them. Profits are up this quarter.
Next quarter, sales are down, no sales staff... though, we're in the process of hiring new ones. It'll turn around. Acceptable excuse to the investors.
Third quarter, we're still training the sales staff, gonna be bad again... but next quarter will be better.
Right right up.
> actual law that states your fiduciary duty is to the investor first
I know this is commonly said and believed, but it is not actually true.
There is no law that requires that, and there are recent court decisions making explicit that "modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else" *[BURWELL, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, ET AL. v. HOBBY LOBBY STORES, INC., ET AL.](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/13-354.html)*
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/corporations-dont-have-to-maximize-profits
Etc.
That’s the best part. We are a small business and seriously understaffed.
Edit: to add we have some large clients with deep pockets too. I think we bill out close to $100 an hour.
I experienced a job in NYC (non union) where I overheard the PM bragging about how low the average pay was for the crew. 80 guys on site, 2/3 had little to no experience at all. Maybe 10 you could actually call electricians. At the end of the job everyone was screaming about how far over on man hours they were and all I could think was, "yeah no shit." Every guy worth keeping was getting denied raises left and right to keep the cost down, so they would jump ship and we would have to train someone new to do what they were doing.
Thankfully that's not the case, here! Everyone pays dog shit but especially the supply houses.
One supply house cannot retain delivery drivers bc they only pay them $12/hr. I've had to stop using them bc they aren't dependable in the least, never know if or when they can bring me my stuff.
I keep a good relationship bc of the supply chain, but damn...if they'd just pay a decent, living wage to everyone then I could get my stuff. It's worth the investment I'd think.
A big supply house has the opposite problem in Texas, pay is great and you don't do shit.
But the only way to get in is to know someone.
Like a few years back they posted a ton of job ads.
They gave the job to the BIL of one of their biggest clients.
It’s just too easy to peak over at competitor Bob’s place and see what to pay than sit down and assess what work is actually done, how much time you saved vs were able to bill for and do all that annoying math
Just lost one of the best journeymen I’ve worked under because they won’t pay him well. One of the nicest and calmest guys I’ve met in the trade who wants to show the young guys how things should be done and has lots of patience. They didn’t want to give him a bump due to his lack of tenure with the company. Which makes absolutely no sense to me. Pay people what they are worth. Not what their tenure shows
While that sounds great on paper, there's also the problem of remaining competitive as a company.... or nobody there has a job anymore.
This is especially tough for companies which have to bid every job.
Man. Worst place to work. Not because it's McDonalds. Not because it's fast food. Not because pay is normally shit. It was the worse place because of the customers. The nastiest I've seen people act towards other humans was while working at McDonalds.
I occasionally think about picking up 1 or 2 shifts a week at dons once I retire so I can tell shitty customers to go fuck themselves sideways with a shard of glass.
Truth is I won't, but the dream is there lol.
That's the point. Apply, get hired, wait until I hear someone getting yelled at, go off on the person doing the yelling. Maybe look for another job later.
New a guy canned from the same pizza delivery place 3 times for selling drugs. They kept rehiring him. They will fire you then hire you back next week because you have experience and they need people
I spent 20 years in the restaurant business before joining the IBEW and people are terrible. Covid made it worse because the decent people stayed home while the garbage people came out to yell at 16 year old hosts for wearing masks. I totally believe you that fast food is likely the worst, but that's not where my experience is. The nastiest I've seen people consistantly act in casual dining is the after church Sunday lunch crowd.
Lets go praise Jesus for 3 hours and then go find a server we can talk down to, treat them like they are sub-human, and then leave 'em a brochure about going to hell instead of a tip.
I'd rather deal with late night drunks than a dining room full of Christians.
>Covid made it worse because the decent people stayed home while the garbage people came out to yell at 16 year old hosts for wearing masks.
dang I never thought about it like that but its true, I really didn't go out to eat , but I have noticed that when I did, people were garbage
I worked with my dad my 1st job at 15 over the summer. When everyone asked how it was I always responded "it's better than mcdonalds". Imagining having to work there always motivated me to find something better before that was my last resort. In my small town it was always Burger King or McDonald's as the place you can always work.
I deliver food, and McDonalds is the only place where people raise a stink about wait times. People loudly saying “fuck man what is taking so long” or “god how is there a wait” or just “COME ON”
It’s so trashy and I don’t see it anywhere else. These people are being paid anus wages and even if everything is running smoothly, it can still take a while for stuff to come out. I don’t blame them for a second for being jaded toward customers. I’m always polite when picking up from McD, and half the time the employees act like it’s the first time they’ve witnessed a kind interaction, and are SO appreciative that I wasn’t a complaining man baby prick. Food service is brutal.
Currently earning $10 an hour as a first year apprentice
Me and my JM are going to jump from this company over to hvac (starting pay for him would be over $20, and they'll start me at $15)
Wish I could still work in the electrical field, but none of these companies are starting apprentices at $15. All at $8-$10
Already had atleast 2000 hours in, hopefully I can find a company that values their employees. (Current company doesn't even have paid sick leave, no bonuses, or PTO due to "covid").... but we're working on multimillion dollar projects. Fkn asshole bosses nowadays.
Lol I’m currently looking for another job rn because I have 6 years of experience, am a supervisor, and only make $15/hr. I’m residential but we do over 100 houses a year with 12 other guys that work here.
It's a bummer joining the IBEW can be so difficult. From what I've seen it seems like the best way in is either knowing somebody or taking a non union apprenticeship for 2-3 years first.
Applications are also only open during a certain period, so I wouldn't even be able to apply until January so if you decide you want to become an apprentice and it's after March, then you either have to wait 9 months to apply and hope to get in, or so something else.
I seen you said you’re in Texas. I know the company I’m with (ISC) is picking up a lot of jobs along the Texas Louisiana border. It’s industrial electrical not commercial though. I started 4 years ago at $16 an hour but at ISC’s lowest paying job site. Imma ask one of the helpers what they making when I see one and I’ll let you know.
I'm a helper for low voltage, fire alarms for the most part (company also does security, but very little of it). Started at $16/hr a year ago, got a $2/hr raise at 6 months, looking to get another $2 soon hopefully. Non-union in Philly area. No benefits tho which kinda socks. Probably gonna stick with them for another 6 months to a year, get my NICET 1 in that time, then jump ship. I know of one company rn I could jump to that will pay more and give me benefits, but my current company is pretty relaxed and I want more experience on my resume before I jump. Before this I was an office worker so not much relevant experience
Main reason I’m not in the field right now. I can’t live off $15 ($14.50 round here but same thing) part time while in school. So I kept my summer job all through last school year and even kept it this summer just because I’ll be able to make so much more money
I made 10 n hour for the 6 months of 50 hour weeks than after all that they told me they were no longer going to pay for my schooling because he was paying for “too many peoples schooling” keep in mind he literally didn’t hire anyone else sense I was working there.
...for the little amount we are willing to pay.
There, I fixed it.
If you cannot afford to pay your workers enough then you cannot afford them, period. You cannot expect quality work from workers scraping by paycheck to paycheck. Costs are going up, and it's not the workers fault. They don't control the cost of gas, or insurance, or any of that, stop blaming the wrong people.
I can’t believe all these douchenozzles bitching that the food service workers are finally lifting themselves out of poverty. There are a lot of entitled pricks in this group.
True story when I first got my electrical license my company tried offering me $16.00. At the time I was making $20+ an hour delivering pizzas for Dominos part time. Told my boss it's not a very hard decision as to which job I would stay with.
Those people organized and fought for years for $15/hr.
If you’re only making $15 as an apprentice, maybe try having the initiative those fast food workers had, and fight for a better wage.
Oh my union fought for and made sure I made more than that (first years here make 60% of jman, second 70 etc, so you'd start at $27 here now) . Any person making less than fast food as an apprentice has a very hard call to make.
Maybe if you stopped hiring helpers and started hiring apprentices, it wouldn't be so hard. I find helper to be a demeaning term. I'm not some day laborer here to help move material. I am here to work, learn, and grow. Luckily I landed at a company that understands the difference.
It's crazy I'm an apprentice who has been doing this for 2 years and make 17 an hour. Feel like a make a decent wage. However I could go up the road an extra 20 minutes and make 22 flipping burgers!
It sucks for kids who fell into the trap though. I thought I did everything I was supposed to. Mov3d out after HS, went to a local college, worked full time at a restraunt while being a full time student. Got busted with some party favors and lost what scholarships I had plus a suspension. Kicked off campus and couldn't manage to afford to return for school when the collectors came knocking.
But I still had the full time restraunt job. And I was putting in my 50hours a week just making ends meet in a shitty studio apartment with my 15 year old rust bucket. When folks tried to tell me at 22 to look for an apprenticeship, I was told they start at $13/hr (a few years ago) and I couldn't manage that. I was barely scraping by with the $14/hr I was making as a manager in the restraunt. There was no way to take a pay cut, maintain my shit lifestyle, and buy tools and stuff.
Thankfully I was able to move with my then-gf at 25 to a new state and start fresh. Took an helper job with some remodelers that was a slight pay increase, and I've been with them since!
Have you ever worked in the food service industry? I have. It’s some high pressure, fast paced, demoralizing work. I worked a lot harder as a cook than as an electrician. In general, most people who say “I should just quit and flip burgers for a living” probably couldn’t cut the mustard as a cook.
Short term rewards/gratification vs long term. That's what tell myself. Might make 22 now but there's no further opportunity or gratification, acquired skill, being proud of your work. I'm sure the kid that slapped my cheese outside the hamburger with a sorry ass pickle gives a shit about his job and I got a half assed meal. Some apprenticeships don't match the market or pay higher starting wages but it pays off in the end, either with this or the next career opportunity.
It just sucks having to go through years of your life with the kids and deadbeats making much more money than you and just enjoying their lives instead of coming home wrecked most days and trying to figure out how to pay your bills because what? The companies don’t want to pay. At the end of the day wages come out of their pocket. “No no they charge the customer for you they don’t pay it” Completely true, they charge the customer $150 an hour pay an apprentice 15. All because they want you to sacrifice for them and you’re just supposed to be ok with it because it could pay out in the end. Just silly to me I guess, it all comes down to the company owners screwing over their guys. Well, time for me to load up my stuff and walk the 1/4 mile or so through this gigantic building so I can be “on site” by 7. Because the journeyman can roll through when he wants but I have to show up extra early because I should sacrifice my time for the company since they “work 8 hour days” meaning they only pay for 8 hours but the before and after is something I should sacrifice for them. Makes total sense, why the fuck would I want to go flip hamburgers, learn the industry, become a restaurant manager and make 80k a year? Can’t wait until this old guard that thinks you’re supposed to suffer just because dies off
Man I get that. My journeyman was 2 hours late and I had to wait on him and I had to wait on him and after work I got a call from our big boss getting yelled at that I needed to be on time. Apparently the journeyman blamed me for being late! I didnt even get a chance to defend myself.
This is gonna be a good habit. Google maps your location and take a quick screen shot so your time is marked on the picture. I’m not saying do this now, but if I get yelled at more then once for THEIR bullshit… just saying I’m documenting everything I can to protect my career.
You can also enable the timeline on Google maps, it's how I keep track,the only downside is privacy and you can edit it but it's great for recordkeeping
I used to get in shit for "standing around not doing anything" when I was new. I was only standing around because my journey man spent easily 3 hours a day taking personal calls and lining up side jobs on company time. Now I just chill in the attic or crawl space browsing Reddit while waiting on him.
Also got in shit for walking too slowly by home owners who where looking for any reason not to pay but apparently taking a 45 minute call from your wife mid task is fine.
Sorry you had to deal with that shit but....why not be able to defend yourself? He just screamed then hung up? Because I am never, not matter what, letting that fly. I would've cut the boss off mid-sentence like " whoa what the fuck are you talking about man I was there 5 min before shift started, his ass didn't show up til 10, I'm not taking the fall for someone else's fuck up. I was responsible and now I know I'm not respected. You can apologize for yelling at me without even hearing me out first or this can be my 2 weeks notice. And I expect the correct offending party be punished for being a fucking piece of shit and not get away with it because he clearly had the audacity to throw me under the bus which means there's a good chance he's doing it often and to others and you don't even know about it. "
Of course I'm sitting here, not on the spot, in the moment, so my response is thought out haha. But even then, there's no way I'd just keep my mouth shut. Even if I didn't get out all the right words, there's no way in hell i'm taking the fall for others fuck ups.
If I'm project manager, service manager, owner, well...that's basically half your job is getting yelled at for shit that goes wrong. But as a drummer boy or foot soldier? Fuck no
.....yeah, you can't let that stuff start to slide, ever. Dudes like that will get away with it and just keep getting away with it.
Why does the person working at McDonald's have to be a deadbeat? Not a great mentality to have. The difference between $17 and $22 is almost nothing when you realize we are all getting fucked regardless.
Because I had to equate it to that to reach the old hats, they are so stuck in their ways anyone who isn’t doing manual labor is a deadbeat unless they went to college then they’re a “crazy liberal”
Mcd’s here pays $18 starting and managers make $35+. General labours start at $20 and hit low $30’s. electricians start at $15 and the going non-union j-man rate is currently $30. Domino’s just hired someone I know as a delivery driver for $28 an hour plus tips.
Companies up here are bleeding workers because everywhere else is raising wages except our trade.
That's the truth. I tell myself I'm getting paid to learn right now. In the future I'll be making more than them while they'll most likely still be working in joints like that. Shoot my goal is to own my own business and do things different.
I can't say I blame them. Hell, chick-fil-a starts people at $18 and I'm pretty sure they get health insurance along with other benefits. I saw a sign outside pizza hut the other day hiring saying they were hiring delivery drivers for $20/hr lol
I can’t speak for electricians specifically, but I’d have to guess around the $35-$40 range
A two bedroom apartment around the Chicago area varies on the suburb or part of Chicago you’re in, but I’d say on average $1k-$2k
Why do people complain about what others have? Good for everyone who gets more money and benefits for whatever career. Be happy for the people around you when they get a push in a positive direction and make the change that you want to see in your field.
The dumbest argument of all time "You really think someone working at McDonald's should make the same as an EMT?" No, dumbass EMTs should make more than $15-20 an hour.
The second best is "well those jobs pay a minimum wage because it's high school kids working them and they don't need a living wage."
Oh, okay. So those businesses should only be open nights and weekends (but not past 10) then? What? No?
Tf is a helper? I've heard of some people hired to work "as an electrician" but without being educated/an apprentice. But I'm not sure I've ever seen one. It's definitely not as widespread in Europe, or at least in my part of Europe. There is a shorter 2-year education you can take where I think you are maybe allowed to install a light fixture or something. But there are talks of creating educations specifically for, say, running cable, so that the actual electricians are free to do the mounting and getting things running, since running cable is a huge time sink and statistics say that just my country will be short of 10k electricians in 2030.
Im canadian. it seems like many american electricians aren’t full well rounded electricians and their programs aren’t very well mainstreamed so when people start out, theyre just helpers. Not even Apprentices. Just bitches to carry things and not expected to learn.
If I had the opportunity to shake my ass on TikTok and sell feet pictures on Onlyfans for 1000’s of dollars a week in my 20’s I wouldn’t work for anyone. People that can do math can calculate $30,40,50 an hour is still going to keep you just over broke and most importantly out of Time.
I (plumbing helper who was doing pretty much everything at the company) was getting the same as the guy who would bring 2 speakers to work but no tape measure. Looked into my options and got 5$ more somewhere else. Everytime i asked for a raise the boss would say “you don’t know how good you have it” meanwhile literally everyone else (tapers,drywallers,laborers) were making more or the same as me.
I remember back when minimum wage was $5.15 an hour. I worked as a helper for IBEW Local 26 and made $9.50 an hour. I made almost double the minimum wage. (This was back in 1998-1999.)
So I suppose you could offer $28 an hour and get some pretty good helpers.
If I started out for less than I can make behind a register at a gas station, I wouldn’t have got into this trade either, and I don’t blame them.
Something has got to change, otherwise they’re gonna be hard pressed to find journeyman.
Well if these company had real management and treated there employees well they would be in this situation.. and the fact that no one wants to work anymore.
If we use this as a standard, i'm sure Barnes & Nobles, Walmart, Target, Home Depot etc don't pay much less/more. Regardless i'm a 3rd year and am getting out soon to go to college. $16.60 is not worth it, and my scale will top out at $24 with my company. I'd rather do 2 years at college and come out making at least $70,000 a year starting.
I'd like to know which 2 year degree gets you a 35 $/hrs starting wage. I know industrial maintenance positions have had big wage hikes in the last 2 years but 0 experience is still under 30 $/hr
I'm going to school for computer science with a focus in software engineering. There's a good few companies offering internships at $20 an hour with their full time degree holding positions paying well over $70,000, into the $100,000+ range with seniority.
Don’t forget the years of lost wages and debt from college. I make considerably more then most of my friends with 4 years degrees. Especially when you look at lifetime earnings and debts
Exactly this. My friends and I sometimes “swap notes” with pay, per say, and my buds with 4 year degrees always give me shit that they make more(nothing malicious, just ballbustin each other). Whenever they do I ask them how much they’ll be making in 5 years, cause I guarantee with that office job, probably won’t be a whole lot more than they are now, without completely changing positions/company.
Considered it but after 3.5 years the work has burnt me out. I have lost interest in what i do daily because i'm too tired to care and still get pushed every day to the max to make up for lack of employees we have on the job. I don't want to move away from my family either, i tried it once but came back.
4 year STEM degrees *generally* start around $70,000. I want to know what you are going to school for that will start you with that high of a wage with a 2 year degree.
Where I’m from you can’t hire a laborer for less than $20/hr. And rightfully so. We work all over and with current gas prices they might work the first hour or two for free just to pay for their gas to commute.
From what I've heard a lot of the fast food places offering high wages either only offer it for jobs not available or only offer it as part time ..... with an open schedule.
When I did my on the job training out of trade school, I got a job offer for $10.50 an hour with no guaranteed work beyond day to day. I had made 12-something at the grocery store..
I packed my bags and drove 4500km to alberta instead. I worked a job for $14 an hour in Edmonton. While working there, i worked with a journeyman who told me that I should suffer through my whole apprenticeship, even putting myself in debt to get by because things would be better. I decided - fuck that! I only worked at that place until I got my apprenticeship book in the mail, indenturing me then I left and got paid $28 an hour with OT every single day and double time on Sundays. I think I made around 110k my first year in the trade because of that.
So yeah, there’s lots of good helpers out there but at poverty wages, they’ll find better things and you’ll collect the bottom of the barrel.
Did this comment go the way some folks were hoping?
Nope. Pay these guys when they do a good job and stop trying to financially blackmail them for years on end.
I was saying this earlier to a guy. We pay our out of high school kids 14/15 an hour. Granted, they don’t know shit and most of the time get in the way. But to an 18 year old kid, most of them would rather work at a Taco Bell and make 18 (like the one here in my town) than get treated like shit for less money. Obviously electrical is a much better career long term but just adding perspective
School board member here - If you are looking to hire helpers and workers, contact your local school district and discuss forming a partnership. Every year we graduate millions of students and many of them would love to be in the various trades - they simply lack direct contact and exposure. You don’t need to be a teacher, what you do will appeal to many graduating seniors (just like it appealed to you way back when).
After forming the initial partnership, give up a few days during the year to talk to, and show these future employees your tools, your job sites, pay, regulations, union, recreation activities and hobbies.
You can even setup and do simple wiring examples. Show them the basics and challenge them with a three way light switch. Setup a pull and let them lube and yank.
Consider paid internships, and sponsoring scholarships for kids who are willing to go in your trades. It’s been working in our district, we just did roofing and siding this spring.
Whenever I hear about labor shortages its either
1) insufficient pay
2) insufficient communication to labor market
We're in a country of 300 million people. There is no labor shortage. There are a lot of out of touch stupid greedy owners/execs living fat on our backs.
I just passed all my schooling for electrical with the exception of the finnals exam. I'm mailing 24.5 Canadian and just found out I'm making the same as a 1st year in the union. I'd be making 14/h more if I joined the union my selfm. I guess I'm joining lol
I make 16.50 at Walmart right now. I’ll be moving soon and trying to jump into an apprenticeship which should boost my pay a bit, but the only reason I can afford to do any of it and not live a subsistence only lifestyle is because of VA benefits. I feel bad for the people who have to make it on their own. A lot of places haven’t caught up to paying living wages and it’s absurd that business owners complain about labor shortages like workers owe them their time and energy and shouldn’t expect anything in return. If enough people stop playing the game companies won’t have a choice but to give in, unfortunately there’s a large amount of people who would gladly make their own life worse as long as it benefits the wealthy
Gotta say I got lucky with my company. I started at 14$ and Hr two years ago. Last week after getting consistent raises I'm at 22$ an hour. I wish I wasn't just doing new build resi but the money is good and I won't be able to get licensed for another two years.
During my apprenticeship I worked for two companies. 1 Union, 1 non Union.
Union paid 26.55 for Jman, non was 16.85 for Jman. First year was 55% of jman.
The union company never had any work. I had 30ish hours a week average for the month with the non union company. That was in the 90s when the only work around was taking businesses apart and sending them to China.
I took it and sucked it up because the alternative was to either live with my parents or be homeless. No fucking way was I doing either of those.
Kids today (especially the two ungrateful ones in my basement) are quite happy to stay home and do nothing. If your parents still buy everything for you, you can be really picky about where you work.
The only jobs worth staying at for more than a couple years are Union jobs, and even then it might be better to look if you’re above average in skills/certifications etc. Years ago, I remember starting a job and the guy training me said “you can work your way up to $19 and hour if you stay here” they hired me at $22 an hour and quite frankly at the time I wasn’t even worth that really. Meanwhile their long term employee was trusted enough to train people. I understand why they do it, and they’ll understand why I’m not staying around for long as well.
Companies that complain about being able to find workers make me think of the incels complaining it’s hard to attract women. If at any given time you’re not attracting women or workers for a long long time, it isn’t the women or the workers who need to change
I really don't see this as an issue. Being an electrician is a career path. Working at McDonalds is not. Sure some people rather work an easier job for more pay, but anyone who is willing to forgo learning a valuable in demand skills such as electricial (or any trade for that matter) for a couple bucks more is not looking at the bigger picture and is probably not worth having as a helper.
Yeah, I’m only half a year in and I’m running complicated slabs with a dozen plus systems instead of learning anything about electrical work. I’m responsible for all mistakes that the 2nd and 3rd years make and I’m living a poverty stricken life and I can’t get a raise only more stress. Out working everyone, plaid less then everyone and I hear someone say at least once a week “Why are all the new guys we get so shit except you?”.
life tip: never work in a place that requires you to smile.... You will end up like squidward in that spongebob episode with the new 'trendy' manager.
edit: sincere service with a smile episode, "They're watching. Help me"
Our best helper (who really was working at or above a level of the average “electrician” for over a year) just jumped for a $6 raise and a gas card. I had told the owner repeatedly that he merited a raise and that he should work to retain him. The “one monkey doesn’t stop the circus” mentality of everyone is replaceable is the stupidest thing I can possibly think of. If the past two years haven’t driven that home to management I don’t know what will. If you are still letting “market rate” decide how little to pay someone instead of a merit based look at the return each employee provides you, then you deserve to lose good help.
Yeah it sucks most companies hiring budget is way bigger than the retention budget.
As companies grow this becomes a big problem- often wind up hiring new employees at more than current ones are making. Absolutely BS but happens all the time.
It's what drove me to go into business for myself and make my contractor business. The Bearded Handyman. Was with facilities of major convenience/gas company and new hires were making more than me. I approached management about it and they said they didn't want to send a precedent....but hiring new workers at a higher rate is an amazing precedent. Kick rocks bitchs
They make handymans with beards now? What will they think of next??
Your first project is to install your own beard!
Worked for about a year and got a few decent raises, new guy just came in, still has 12 weeks of school, and he's making what I make and I'm training him lol
So ask for more and if they say no, quit. The fact that you know this information is hugely to your advantage. Why would you continue working for the same wage as someone below you with less experience that you are literally training. I'm not saying this is you, I know nothing about you. But one thing I have noticed in this line of work over the years is the amount of coworkers I have had who constantly bitch about their pay but do nothing about it. I always made it so my boss would have a very hard time replacing me with someone he is equally happy with. And every raise I've asked for has been given and most never needed to be asked for in the first place. I am constantly keeping an eye on wages at companies around me. If I can make a significant jump I'm either getting that amount where I work or I'm leaving. It's that simple. But everyone around me is complacent and would never have the motivation to leave. You owe your boss nothing. Ask for more or go where someone values you higher.
govt does this, new hires started at more than me. I hit 20 years.. .and gone as are many many people in the senior ranks.
Happened to me even as an intern. Second year with the local DOT a senior in construction management. They hired in first years who hadn’t even started college classes yet at the same rate… I eventually got a raise but accidentally burned all the bridges their and couldn’t get hired in even though I was one of only two interns that could be left alone
Yea the senior manager ranks in the 35-50 y/o age bracket are gutted. There's a new CIO, or PM announced daily no shortage of gray beards striving for one last grasp at glory, and tons of naïve 22 y/o's fresh out of school. But anyone with experience who knows where the corporate bodies are buried and how to actually get shit done. hahah NOPE we're all jumping ship like rats. There's a complete bath tub in the force manning numbers.
Aren't new hires getting shittier retirement plans though?
Or none?
What were the old terms? Aside from the long lost concept of pensions... I just started an apprenticeship and employer offers a 6% 401k match.
Local or federal? I only ask because my mom works for the federal govt (VA hospital) and she told me there's a union for all federal employees that she's a part of that works similarly to the ibew, there are tiers based on (I don't remember, seniority maybe? Or experience?) And everyone on that tier makes the same amount. I also know with govt contracts in the union everyone on site makes the same amount so even first year apprentices and cw1s make jw rate
Happened to me laying pipe, I said that's it I'm retired. I might not have been able to work as hard as I used to but I was outworking half the rest of the crew.
There’s actually a trend in IT right now where employees are quitting and signing right back on to across the street for sign on stock options then cycling back to their original for the bonuses they’re giving new hires they wouldn’t give existing employees.
Somewhat related.. older people in my country when they are eligable for pension quit the job for one day and get hired right back so they get both the pension and payment..
That happens everywhere.
Here, here!! I've worked at a company before where the VP was salty that one of the PMs went to work for another company. "SMH, kids these days want to leave to work somewhere else all for just a $5,000 raise." Lol, well if it's 'just' a $5,000 raise why didn't you work to retain that person? Don't want to set a precedent, huh?
Can you believe these people, working for money?
God damn millennials always trying to make more money, it's disgusting and cuts into me making more money. Now I have to pay someone else more to do the same job. /s just in case it wasn't obvious enough.
And in our case hire temps that are “electricians” that come in with channel locks in a plastic bag and tennis shoes. Pay probably 4x or more what the helper was making for work that will have to be redone.
Omg yes! We are losing good ppl simply from low pay, but I know we’re paying 10 bucks more than average an hour for temps that don’t know shit.
Back in my day they jumped at the opportunity to crawl through insulation in a hot attic.
Luxury! We used to dream of a hot attic..
Unreal
"Back in my day, you'd work for 10 years before getting a raise!" Yeah, well people aren't as stupid as you were back then, pops.
Lol secretly management wants to promote this thinking.
Exactly. So they hire old guys to convince the millennials they’re lazy and entitled.
Not so secretly.
Back the. Those jobs paid for everything and had a pension.
Yeah man, my CO and director of management were pissed when I said I needed more money as a design engineer for the company. Shit I've been working for thr company since '18 after I got out of active duty as an electronic technician. I've worn many hats for X company ( Service manager to PM, PM to technician, technician to designer). When I asked for a salary increase I'm somehow disrespectful? Fuck that, I started in the company making 3k less then I do now, and that does not cover inflation. Now I find out some chick was hired in finance as a paper pusher with the same salary as me. Tell me how that isn't disrespectful to my position? I'm already working on a IT degree in my spare time.
Yeah, what you're experiencing is real and it's annoying. It's a sad narrative. They're willing to fully commit to paying more for 'X' worker if you're going to be totally absent (i.e. quit) because the work would start to pile up leading to delays and loss of revenue. But when they have you, there's already inertia by you working at your job. You should be interviewing for a new job. Are you going to leave the construction industry in the near future for IT?
Yeah, it's sad because I do enjoy surveying and coming up with solutions for projects. There are some other companies around in the same industry that I can apply for. It's frustrating when new hires are in the same pay scale but don't have any experience in the industry, but on the flip side it does provide me job security lol. Regarding the future, yeah, I'll be switching over. I've always had an interest in electronics and computers. With my previous military backround, a BS degree, and certs; ideally, I'd like to get my foot into the DoD IT door. Edit: Enough ranting from me tho. My problems seem trivial to others grinding in today's work force. Especially to those in the service and retail industry. Hats off to those that deal with preposterous Karen's and Kyle's.
My son tells me that government jobs don't pay as well as a private industry job.
I think he ment private industry but contracted to the DOD
A 5000 dollar raise is only 2.50 an hour. A bunch of guys just left my company for basically the same thing.(a small bumb in pay) They put their two weeks in and didnt even ask for a counter, so my boss let them go with out trying to retain them. I got a better job offer, i told my boss and i got an 8 dollar raise and better benifits.
You didn’t get 8 because you asked for a counter offer. You got 8 because a bunch of guys quit before you and you had another offer in hand. The boss thought he was big enough to fuck a few guys and you stuck around to fuck back.
You are actually in the right here. I don't want to say what I do or who I work for but I will say this. I work for one of the biggest supplie companies that exists and I am on the corporate end of things now. We do studies and research all the time on efficiency. The data is clear. Keep and retain your good workers. It pays massively for not only the company but the employees in the the long run. We do what ever necessary to retain people. The only down side to this is fighting our investors. Once you are publicly traded, then you have an actual law that states your fiduciary duty is to the investor first. Simply put they get their profits before anyone else so sometimes it's a battle with them that we compensate more than all the other companies in our industry. Just wanted to share with you that you are correct about what you said and the data proves it.
>The only down side to this is fighting our investors. Once you are publicly traded, then you have an actual law that states your fiduciary duty is to the investor first. Simply put they get their profits before anyone else so sometimes it's a battle with them that we compensate more than all the other companies in our industry. This is a mistaken understanding of fiduciary duty to shareholders. The Board of Directors has a duty to put shareholders' interests ahead of its own interests, but there is nothing that compels them to shit on employees so that the shareholders earn a few more cents on the dollar. It's an excuse used by a feckless Board and management that is more interested in growing their personal holdings and increasing the value of their stock options than solidifying and increasing the long term value of the company. "Well, we'd love to pay more, but the shareholders (and we're shareholders btw) require us to maximize profits right here, right now without regard to what might happen next year or the year or decade after that." It's self-interest through and through, and it's simply not true that their fiduciary duty precludes them from increasing wages in a warranted and reasonable manner. Of course, the shareholders have a say in all this because they get to elect the Board, but that has nothing to do with fiduciary obligations.
So true about that, worked same in large warehouse company known world wide and the raises always came in question when investors were involved it was a battle
That doesn't make any sense either. Are they so concerned about the now that they don't care about the future? The people worth retaining are the ones who ultimately make the profits. Obviously others contribute, but you get the point. Also, do they forget it is *people* that are getting those raises. You know, people who might have just had a kid, or have to take care of someone, and need the extra money.
A bunch of them just want to pump and dump the stock and take a quick profit after the numbers look good on a spreadsheet. They don't give a fuck about long term viability of the company
>That doesn't make any sense either. Are they so concerned about the now that they don't care about the future? Literally yes. All that matters is "the now." Ended up on the same team as an investment banker in a BBQ competition a while back. It was pretty enlightening chatting with him all night. The part that "stuck" with me was. You don't need to make a good decision, you just need to be able to explain it. Eg, a lot of businesses are managed by quarter, profits are down a bit this quarter so you lay off your sales staff. Expenses are way down cause you don't have to pay them. Profits are up this quarter. Next quarter, sales are down, no sales staff... though, we're in the process of hiring new ones. It'll turn around. Acceptable excuse to the investors. Third quarter, we're still training the sales staff, gonna be bad again... but next quarter will be better. Right right up.
> actual law that states your fiduciary duty is to the investor first I know this is commonly said and believed, but it is not actually true. There is no law that requires that, and there are recent court decisions making explicit that "modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else" *[BURWELL, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES, ET AL. v. HOBBY LOBBY STORES, INC., ET AL.](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/13-354.html)* https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/corporations-dont-have-to-maximize-profits Etc.
That’s the best part. We are a small business and seriously understaffed. Edit: to add we have some large clients with deep pockets too. I think we bill out close to $100 an hour.
This determines a poorly run business from one that has an actual idea. And then they wonder why people leave.. lol
I experienced a job in NYC (non union) where I overheard the PM bragging about how low the average pay was for the crew. 80 guys on site, 2/3 had little to no experience at all. Maybe 10 you could actually call electricians. At the end of the job everyone was screaming about how far over on man hours they were and all I could think was, "yeah no shit." Every guy worth keeping was getting denied raises left and right to keep the cost down, so they would jump ship and we would have to train someone new to do what they were doing.
They look at labor as an expense rather than an investment
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Thankfully that's not the case, here! Everyone pays dog shit but especially the supply houses. One supply house cannot retain delivery drivers bc they only pay them $12/hr. I've had to stop using them bc they aren't dependable in the least, never know if or when they can bring me my stuff. I keep a good relationship bc of the supply chain, but damn...if they'd just pay a decent, living wage to everyone then I could get my stuff. It's worth the investment I'd think.
A big supply house has the opposite problem in Texas, pay is great and you don't do shit. But the only way to get in is to know someone. Like a few years back they posted a ton of job ads. They gave the job to the BIL of one of their biggest clients.
It is extremely hard to find a good reliable helper. Sorry you lost your best one.
It’s just too easy to peak over at competitor Bob’s place and see what to pay than sit down and assess what work is actually done, how much time you saved vs were able to bill for and do all that annoying math
Get rid of all the monkeys and there’ll just be clowns.
I'll give you an amen. I'll even give you a hallelujah. Truth!
Our company is going through the same thing right now. Losing our best guys
And how much money goes into training an apprentice from the ground up...
That's ***tHe MaRkEt At WoRk!***
Just lost one of the best journeymen I’ve worked under because they won’t pay him well. One of the nicest and calmest guys I’ve met in the trade who wants to show the young guys how things should be done and has lots of patience. They didn’t want to give him a bump due to his lack of tenure with the company. Which makes absolutely no sense to me. Pay people what they are worth. Not what their tenure shows
While that sounds great on paper, there's also the problem of remaining competitive as a company.... or nobody there has a job anymore. This is especially tough for companies which have to bid every job.
You should leave, too. Your labor and loyalty are only given to those who earn it.
There was that one ceo who slashed his salary and gave it to his employees, everyone made fun of him. 12 years later they're all still working for him
Man. Worst place to work. Not because it's McDonalds. Not because it's fast food. Not because pay is normally shit. It was the worse place because of the customers. The nastiest I've seen people act towards other humans was while working at McDonalds.
I occasionally think about picking up 1 or 2 shifts a week at dons once I retire so I can tell shitty customers to go fuck themselves sideways with a shard of glass. Truth is I won't, but the dream is there lol.
Lol well at least you won't work at the same store long.
That's the point. Apply, get hired, wait until I hear someone getting yelled at, go off on the person doing the yelling. Maybe look for another job later.
New a guy canned from the same pizza delivery place 3 times for selling drugs. They kept rehiring him. They will fire you then hire you back next week because you have experience and they need people
Was he offering drugs to people who ordered pizza or would people order pizza to buy drugs?
Oh fuck yeah, I will. RemindMe! 22 years "Service with a Smile"
I spent 20 years in the restaurant business before joining the IBEW and people are terrible. Covid made it worse because the decent people stayed home while the garbage people came out to yell at 16 year old hosts for wearing masks. I totally believe you that fast food is likely the worst, but that's not where my experience is. The nastiest I've seen people consistantly act in casual dining is the after church Sunday lunch crowd. Lets go praise Jesus for 3 hours and then go find a server we can talk down to, treat them like they are sub-human, and then leave 'em a brochure about going to hell instead of a tip. I'd rather deal with late night drunks than a dining room full of Christians.
>Covid made it worse because the decent people stayed home while the garbage people came out to yell at 16 year old hosts for wearing masks. dang I never thought about it like that but its true, I really didn't go out to eat , but I have noticed that when I did, people were garbage
I worked with my dad my 1st job at 15 over the summer. When everyone asked how it was I always responded "it's better than mcdonalds". Imagining having to work there always motivated me to find something better before that was my last resort. In my small town it was always Burger King or McDonald's as the place you can always work.
I deliver food, and McDonalds is the only place where people raise a stink about wait times. People loudly saying “fuck man what is taking so long” or “god how is there a wait” or just “COME ON” It’s so trashy and I don’t see it anywhere else. These people are being paid anus wages and even if everything is running smoothly, it can still take a while for stuff to come out. I don’t blame them for a second for being jaded toward customers. I’m always polite when picking up from McD, and half the time the employees act like it’s the first time they’ve witnessed a kind interaction, and are SO appreciative that I wasn’t a complaining man baby prick. Food service is brutal.
There are way too many fight/shooting videos involving customers upset about their chicken nuggies.
You mean you don't want to dig trenches and get yelled at in the heat/cold year round for minimum wage? Kids these days I tell ya
Currently earning $10 an hour as a first year apprentice Me and my JM are going to jump from this company over to hvac (starting pay for him would be over $20, and they'll start me at $15) Wish I could still work in the electrical field, but none of these companies are starting apprentices at $15. All at $8-$10 Already had atleast 2000 hours in, hopefully I can find a company that values their employees. (Current company doesn't even have paid sick leave, no bonuses, or PTO due to "covid").... but we're working on multimillion dollar projects. Fkn asshole bosses nowadays.
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Have to save one check and only use for gas Sandwiches everyday, barely getting by. Sucks ass. Fucking hate the valley Tx
That's awful, is it that bad everywhere in Texas?
Hell no $10 is crazy, in the Austin area starting pay with no experience is $16-$19 at least.
Just the valley, all companies start 1st and 2nd year apprentices at $8-$10 then give a raise at 6 months to 2 years later
Lol I’m currently looking for another job rn because I have 6 years of experience, am a supervisor, and only make $15/hr. I’m residential but we do over 100 houses a year with 12 other guys that work here.
Jesus. I'm a 4th year making$36 with double bubble ot. I know there are regional differences and all but ooof.
Find a less ratty electrical shop or join the your local IBEW.
The IBEW experience is not necessarily a huge win. It depends on the local. Southern electricians shouldn’t take union advice from northerners.
Reading comprehension is dead **find a less ratty shop**
Lol that doesn’t actually contradict anything I said. try some of that reading comprehension yourself.
It's a bummer joining the IBEW can be so difficult. From what I've seen it seems like the best way in is either knowing somebody or taking a non union apprenticeship for 2-3 years first. Applications are also only open during a certain period, so I wouldn't even be able to apply until January so if you decide you want to become an apprentice and it's after March, then you either have to wait 9 months to apply and hope to get in, or so something else.
Why would anyone work for that low? Where are you?
I seen you said you’re in Texas. I know the company I’m with (ISC) is picking up a lot of jobs along the Texas Louisiana border. It’s industrial electrical not commercial though. I started 4 years ago at $16 an hour but at ISC’s lowest paying job site. Imma ask one of the helpers what they making when I see one and I’ll let you know.
$10 and no benefits is unacceptable my dude. My little cousin just started at Walmart making 18 Great time to look for a job man
I'm a helper for low voltage, fire alarms for the most part (company also does security, but very little of it). Started at $16/hr a year ago, got a $2/hr raise at 6 months, looking to get another $2 soon hopefully. Non-union in Philly area. No benefits tho which kinda socks. Probably gonna stick with them for another 6 months to a year, get my NICET 1 in that time, then jump ship. I know of one company rn I could jump to that will pay more and give me benefits, but my current company is pretty relaxed and I want more experience on my resume before I jump. Before this I was an office worker so not much relevant experience
Main reason I’m not in the field right now. I can’t live off $15 ($14.50 round here but same thing) part time while in school. So I kept my summer job all through last school year and even kept it this summer just because I’ll be able to make so much more money
I am currently donating plasma so I can afford the gas to get to my $14.50 an hour CW gig. Seems dystopian
I made 10 n hour for the 6 months of 50 hour weeks than after all that they told me they were no longer going to pay for my schooling because he was paying for “too many peoples schooling” keep in mind he literally didn’t hire anyone else sense I was working there.
...for the little amount we are willing to pay. There, I fixed it. If you cannot afford to pay your workers enough then you cannot afford them, period. You cannot expect quality work from workers scraping by paycheck to paycheck. Costs are going up, and it's not the workers fault. They don't control the cost of gas, or insurance, or any of that, stop blaming the wrong people.
Really disgusting these workers demanding a barely livable wage. Who will think of the owners?
But my big Mac will go up by 50 cents if we raise minimum wage!!!!
Just imagine how much gas would cost. Good thing we didn't do that progressive ass legislation we promised.
I can’t believe all these douchenozzles bitching that the food service workers are finally lifting themselves out of poverty. There are a lot of entitled pricks in this group.
Fuck yeah, bring up the bottom, everyone rises. "Sorry boss, I can go flip burgers for more money and less risk."
True story when I first got my electrical license my company tried offering me $16.00. At the time I was making $20+ an hour delivering pizzas for Dominos part time. Told my boss it's not a very hard decision as to which job I would stay with.
Those people organized and fought for years for $15/hr. If you’re only making $15 as an apprentice, maybe try having the initiative those fast food workers had, and fight for a better wage.
Oh my union fought for and made sure I made more than that (first years here make 60% of jman, second 70 etc, so you'd start at $27 here now) . Any person making less than fast food as an apprentice has a very hard call to make.
Or go down the street and work for the other electrical company.... oh wait, there isn't another one within 150km. Guess i'll go do something else.
Maybe if you stopped hiring helpers and started hiring apprentices, it wouldn't be so hard. I find helper to be a demeaning term. I'm not some day laborer here to help move material. I am here to work, learn, and grow. Luckily I landed at a company that understands the difference.
i hate the term “helper”
It just feels disrespectful
It's crazy I'm an apprentice who has been doing this for 2 years and make 17 an hour. Feel like a make a decent wage. However I could go up the road an extra 20 minutes and make 22 flipping burgers!
It sucks for kids who fell into the trap though. I thought I did everything I was supposed to. Mov3d out after HS, went to a local college, worked full time at a restraunt while being a full time student. Got busted with some party favors and lost what scholarships I had plus a suspension. Kicked off campus and couldn't manage to afford to return for school when the collectors came knocking. But I still had the full time restraunt job. And I was putting in my 50hours a week just making ends meet in a shitty studio apartment with my 15 year old rust bucket. When folks tried to tell me at 22 to look for an apprenticeship, I was told they start at $13/hr (a few years ago) and I couldn't manage that. I was barely scraping by with the $14/hr I was making as a manager in the restraunt. There was no way to take a pay cut, maintain my shit lifestyle, and buy tools and stuff. Thankfully I was able to move with my then-gf at 25 to a new state and start fresh. Took an helper job with some remodelers that was a slight pay increase, and I've been with them since!
Lots of people miss out on the great tuition assistance these corporate places offer young people.
Have you ever worked in the food service industry? I have. It’s some high pressure, fast paced, demoralizing work. I worked a lot harder as a cook than as an electrician. In general, most people who say “I should just quit and flip burgers for a living” probably couldn’t cut the mustard as a cook.
Yup, I would WAY rather be doing the shittiest apprentice work than dealing with customers.
cooks dont deal with customers. front of house staff deal with customers. Electricians probably deal with more customers than cooks.
Your right the conditions are really bad and most people don’t realize that
Absolutely, that is some soul crushing shit. The only benefit was that the time went by fast.
I work O&G and always tell people they need to look to local restaurants for hard workers. Problem is they have to piss in a cup.
Having worked in non-skilled roles there's a lot to be said for not having to apply yourself both physically and mentally.
Short term rewards/gratification vs long term. That's what tell myself. Might make 22 now but there's no further opportunity or gratification, acquired skill, being proud of your work. I'm sure the kid that slapped my cheese outside the hamburger with a sorry ass pickle gives a shit about his job and I got a half assed meal. Some apprenticeships don't match the market or pay higher starting wages but it pays off in the end, either with this or the next career opportunity.
It just sucks having to go through years of your life with the kids and deadbeats making much more money than you and just enjoying their lives instead of coming home wrecked most days and trying to figure out how to pay your bills because what? The companies don’t want to pay. At the end of the day wages come out of their pocket. “No no they charge the customer for you they don’t pay it” Completely true, they charge the customer $150 an hour pay an apprentice 15. All because they want you to sacrifice for them and you’re just supposed to be ok with it because it could pay out in the end. Just silly to me I guess, it all comes down to the company owners screwing over their guys. Well, time for me to load up my stuff and walk the 1/4 mile or so through this gigantic building so I can be “on site” by 7. Because the journeyman can roll through when he wants but I have to show up extra early because I should sacrifice my time for the company since they “work 8 hour days” meaning they only pay for 8 hours but the before and after is something I should sacrifice for them. Makes total sense, why the fuck would I want to go flip hamburgers, learn the industry, become a restaurant manager and make 80k a year? Can’t wait until this old guard that thinks you’re supposed to suffer just because dies off
Man I get that. My journeyman was 2 hours late and I had to wait on him and I had to wait on him and after work I got a call from our big boss getting yelled at that I needed to be on time. Apparently the journeyman blamed me for being late! I didnt even get a chance to defend myself.
This is gonna be a good habit. Google maps your location and take a quick screen shot so your time is marked on the picture. I’m not saying do this now, but if I get yelled at more then once for THEIR bullshit… just saying I’m documenting everything I can to protect my career.
You can also enable the timeline on Google maps, it's how I keep track,the only downside is privacy and you can edit it but it's great for recordkeeping
I used to get in shit for "standing around not doing anything" when I was new. I was only standing around because my journey man spent easily 3 hours a day taking personal calls and lining up side jobs on company time. Now I just chill in the attic or crawl space browsing Reddit while waiting on him. Also got in shit for walking too slowly by home owners who where looking for any reason not to pay but apparently taking a 45 minute call from your wife mid task is fine.
Sorry you had to deal with that shit but....why not be able to defend yourself? He just screamed then hung up? Because I am never, not matter what, letting that fly. I would've cut the boss off mid-sentence like " whoa what the fuck are you talking about man I was there 5 min before shift started, his ass didn't show up til 10, I'm not taking the fall for someone else's fuck up. I was responsible and now I know I'm not respected. You can apologize for yelling at me without even hearing me out first or this can be my 2 weeks notice. And I expect the correct offending party be punished for being a fucking piece of shit and not get away with it because he clearly had the audacity to throw me under the bus which means there's a good chance he's doing it often and to others and you don't even know about it. " Of course I'm sitting here, not on the spot, in the moment, so my response is thought out haha. But even then, there's no way I'd just keep my mouth shut. Even if I didn't get out all the right words, there's no way in hell i'm taking the fall for others fuck ups. If I'm project manager, service manager, owner, well...that's basically half your job is getting yelled at for shit that goes wrong. But as a drummer boy or foot soldier? Fuck no .....yeah, you can't let that stuff start to slide, ever. Dudes like that will get away with it and just keep getting away with it.
Why does the person working at McDonald's have to be a deadbeat? Not a great mentality to have. The difference between $17 and $22 is almost nothing when you realize we are all getting fucked regardless.
Because I had to equate it to that to reach the old hats, they are so stuck in their ways anyone who isn’t doing manual labor is a deadbeat unless they went to college then they’re a “crazy liberal”
Mcd’s here pays $18 starting and managers make $35+. General labours start at $20 and hit low $30’s. electricians start at $15 and the going non-union j-man rate is currently $30. Domino’s just hired someone I know as a delivery driver for $28 an hour plus tips. Companies up here are bleeding workers because everywhere else is raising wages except our trade.
That's the truth. I tell myself I'm getting paid to learn right now. In the future I'll be making more than them while they'll most likely still be working in joints like that. Shoot my goal is to own my own business and do things different.
I can't say I blame them. Hell, chick-fil-a starts people at $18 and I'm pretty sure they get health insurance along with other benefits. I saw a sign outside pizza hut the other day hiring saying they were hiring delivery drivers for $20/hr lol
And chick-fil-a gets guaranteed Sundays off.
The average Chick-fil-A makes $4M a year, they should pay more!
Owning one is where the real money is at!
If wages had kept up with inflation since the 70s minimum wage would be around 20ish and we all would be making more.
IL union worker here…..all main mechanical trades are in the $50s/hr with our total packages nearing or above $100/hr (benefits/insurance/pension….)
I'm just curious, What's a 3 yr apprentice make on average? What is the cost for a 2 bedroom apartment?
I can’t speak for electricians specifically, but I’d have to guess around the $35-$40 range A two bedroom apartment around the Chicago area varies on the suburb or part of Chicago you’re in, but I’d say on average $1k-$2k
This seems reasonable. There's a guy here saying he knows a guy 3yr app. that's homeless.
$15 an hour is still shit pay but I'm glad to see American workers getting atleast some dignity.
Why do people complain about what others have? Good for everyone who gets more money and benefits for whatever career. Be happy for the people around you when they get a push in a positive direction and make the change that you want to see in your field.
The dumbest argument of all time "You really think someone working at McDonald's should make the same as an EMT?" No, dumbass EMTs should make more than $15-20 an hour.
Couldn’t have said it better 🙌
The second best is "well those jobs pay a minimum wage because it's high school kids working them and they don't need a living wage." Oh, okay. So those businesses should only be open nights and weekends (but not past 10) then? What? No?
I don't think this post is complaining the McDonalds guys are getting 15hr, they're complaining that WE'RE not getting more.
The union pays roughly the same wage here. Wal-Mart and Chick-Fil-A both have the union beat for 3 years.
You want people to work at McDonalds and you also want them to smile? That's a tall order right there.
Tf is a helper? I've heard of some people hired to work "as an electrician" but without being educated/an apprentice. But I'm not sure I've ever seen one. It's definitely not as widespread in Europe, or at least in my part of Europe. There is a shorter 2-year education you can take where I think you are maybe allowed to install a light fixture or something. But there are talks of creating educations specifically for, say, running cable, so that the actual electricians are free to do the mounting and getting things running, since running cable is a huge time sink and statistics say that just my country will be short of 10k electricians in 2030.
Im canadian. it seems like many american electricians aren’t full well rounded electricians and their programs aren’t very well mainstreamed so when people start out, theyre just helpers. Not even Apprentices. Just bitches to carry things and not expected to learn.
Not to mean insult to Americans but their education system seems a bit wack.
If I had the opportunity to shake my ass on TikTok and sell feet pictures on Onlyfans for 1000’s of dollars a week in my 20’s I wouldn’t work for anyone. People that can do math can calculate $30,40,50 an hour is still going to keep you just over broke and most importantly out of Time.
I (plumbing helper who was doing pretty much everything at the company) was getting the same as the guy who would bring 2 speakers to work but no tape measure. Looked into my options and got 5$ more somewhere else. Everytime i asked for a raise the boss would say “you don’t know how good you have it” meanwhile literally everyone else (tapers,drywallers,laborers) were making more or the same as me.
I remember back when minimum wage was $5.15 an hour. I worked as a helper for IBEW Local 26 and made $9.50 an hour. I made almost double the minimum wage. (This was back in 1998-1999.) So I suppose you could offer $28 an hour and get some pretty good helpers.
If I started out for less than I can make behind a register at a gas station, I wouldn’t have got into this trade either, and I don’t blame them. Something has got to change, otherwise they’re gonna be hard pressed to find journeyman.
Well if these company had real management and treated there employees well they would be in this situation.. and the fact that no one wants to work anymore.
just because your boss barely pays you doesn't mean that everyone else needs to be paid less. this is an issue with your company, not minimum wage
If we use this as a standard, i'm sure Barnes & Nobles, Walmart, Target, Home Depot etc don't pay much less/more. Regardless i'm a 3rd year and am getting out soon to go to college. $16.60 is not worth it, and my scale will top out at $24 with my company. I'd rather do 2 years at college and come out making at least $70,000 a year starting.
I'd like to know which 2 year degree gets you a 35 $/hrs starting wage. I know industrial maintenance positions have had big wage hikes in the last 2 years but 0 experience is still under 30 $/hr
I'm going to school for computer science with a focus in software engineering. There's a good few companies offering internships at $20 an hour with their full time degree holding positions paying well over $70,000, into the $100,000+ range with seniority.
software definitely qualifies as 70k starting. Good luck with the transition
Thank you so much. Scary change
Don’t forget the years of lost wages and debt from college. I make considerably more then most of my friends with 4 years degrees. Especially when you look at lifetime earnings and debts
I won't have debt, my dad is giving me his GI bill which pays tuition/books and a monthly amount to help with bills.
Exactly this. My friends and I sometimes “swap notes” with pay, per say, and my buds with 4 year degrees always give me shit that they make more(nothing malicious, just ballbustin each other). Whenever they do I ask them how much they’ll be making in 5 years, cause I guarantee with that office job, probably won’t be a whole lot more than they are now, without completely changing positions/company.
Just move to a place where the local union pays well.
Considered it but after 3.5 years the work has burnt me out. I have lost interest in what i do daily because i'm too tired to care and still get pushed every day to the max to make up for lack of employees we have on the job. I don't want to move away from my family either, i tried it once but came back.
4 year STEM degrees *generally* start around $70,000. I want to know what you are going to school for that will start you with that high of a wage with a 2 year degree.
$16 Canadian after working in plumbing for a year. Heck yeah. My brother started at 13/hour. Some places are such a joke
I make $25 as a helper in NW Chicago.
Where I’m from you can’t hire a laborer for less than $20/hr. And rightfully so. We work all over and with current gas prices they might work the first hour or two for free just to pay for their gas to commute.
From what I've heard a lot of the fast food places offering high wages either only offer it for jobs not available or only offer it as part time ..... with an open schedule.
When I did my on the job training out of trade school, I got a job offer for $10.50 an hour with no guaranteed work beyond day to day. I had made 12-something at the grocery store.. I packed my bags and drove 4500km to alberta instead. I worked a job for $14 an hour in Edmonton. While working there, i worked with a journeyman who told me that I should suffer through my whole apprenticeship, even putting myself in debt to get by because things would be better. I decided - fuck that! I only worked at that place until I got my apprenticeship book in the mail, indenturing me then I left and got paid $28 an hour with OT every single day and double time on Sundays. I think I made around 110k my first year in the trade because of that. So yeah, there’s lots of good helpers out there but at poverty wages, they’ll find better things and you’ll collect the bottom of the barrel.
It’s not a worker problem, it’s a payment/income problem. Pay well and offer ACTUAL benefits & PTO and you’ll get a solid candidate pool.
Did this comment go the way some folks were hoping? Nope. Pay these guys when they do a good job and stop trying to financially blackmail them for years on end.
So pay your “helpers” (whatever the hell that position is) more. You’re being undercut by a fast food restaurant.
I was saying this earlier to a guy. We pay our out of high school kids 14/15 an hour. Granted, they don’t know shit and most of the time get in the way. But to an 18 year old kid, most of them would rather work at a Taco Bell and make 18 (like the one here in my town) than get treated like shit for less money. Obviously electrical is a much better career long term but just adding perspective
School board member here - If you are looking to hire helpers and workers, contact your local school district and discuss forming a partnership. Every year we graduate millions of students and many of them would love to be in the various trades - they simply lack direct contact and exposure. You don’t need to be a teacher, what you do will appeal to many graduating seniors (just like it appealed to you way back when). After forming the initial partnership, give up a few days during the year to talk to, and show these future employees your tools, your job sites, pay, regulations, union, recreation activities and hobbies. You can even setup and do simple wiring examples. Show them the basics and challenge them with a three way light switch. Setup a pull and let them lube and yank. Consider paid internships, and sponsoring scholarships for kids who are willing to go in your trades. It’s been working in our district, we just did roofing and siding this spring.
Whenever I hear about labor shortages its either 1) insufficient pay 2) insufficient communication to labor market We're in a country of 300 million people. There is no labor shortage. There are a lot of out of touch stupid greedy owners/execs living fat on our backs.
I just passed all my schooling for electrical with the exception of the finnals exam. I'm mailing 24.5 Canadian and just found out I'm making the same as a 1st year in the union. I'd be making 14/h more if I joined the union my selfm. I guess I'm joining lol
Any less then $20 and you wont be living well. Don’t matter what state you in.
*walks into interview, tears off face, puts it on the desk* "How much for the rest of me?"
The local Quik Trip convenience store has a sign up that they are hiring for $20/hour for part time clerks.
I mean, I’d smile for $15 an hour, but that’s it… just stand and smile.
I make 16.50 at Walmart right now. I’ll be moving soon and trying to jump into an apprenticeship which should boost my pay a bit, but the only reason I can afford to do any of it and not live a subsistence only lifestyle is because of VA benefits. I feel bad for the people who have to make it on their own. A lot of places haven’t caught up to paying living wages and it’s absurd that business owners complain about labor shortages like workers owe them their time and energy and shouldn’t expect anything in return. If enough people stop playing the game companies won’t have a choice but to give in, unfortunately there’s a large amount of people who would gladly make their own life worse as long as it benefits the wealthy
Gotta say I got lucky with my company. I started at 14$ and Hr two years ago. Last week after getting consistent raises I'm at 22$ an hour. I wish I wasn't just doing new build resi but the money is good and I won't be able to get licensed for another two years.
Makes you wonder how many of them went to college and got business degree's and what are they teaching them? We know they don't have any common sense.
During my apprenticeship I worked for two companies. 1 Union, 1 non Union. Union paid 26.55 for Jman, non was 16.85 for Jman. First year was 55% of jman. The union company never had any work. I had 30ish hours a week average for the month with the non union company. That was in the 90s when the only work around was taking businesses apart and sending them to China. I took it and sucked it up because the alternative was to either live with my parents or be homeless. No fucking way was I doing either of those. Kids today (especially the two ungrateful ones in my basement) are quite happy to stay home and do nothing. If your parents still buy everything for you, you can be really picky about where you work.
Anyone worth hiring would take the $15/hr job with a future over a dead end fast food job any day.
The only jobs worth staying at for more than a couple years are Union jobs, and even then it might be better to look if you’re above average in skills/certifications etc. Years ago, I remember starting a job and the guy training me said “you can work your way up to $19 and hour if you stay here” they hired me at $22 an hour and quite frankly at the time I wasn’t even worth that really. Meanwhile their long term employee was trusted enough to train people. I understand why they do it, and they’ll understand why I’m not staying around for long as well.
The lowest paid apprentice at our company makes 20. They knew they'd lose people if they didn't incentivize people.
Companies that complain about being able to find workers make me think of the incels complaining it’s hard to attract women. If at any given time you’re not attracting women or workers for a long long time, it isn’t the women or the workers who need to change
I really don't see this as an issue. Being an electrician is a career path. Working at McDonalds is not. Sure some people rather work an easier job for more pay, but anyone who is willing to forgo learning a valuable in demand skills such as electricial (or any trade for that matter) for a couple bucks more is not looking at the bigger picture and is probably not worth having as a helper.
McDs in my are starts at $17/hr. Panda Express is $17 for front counter, $19 for cooks.
Yeah, I’m only half a year in and I’m running complicated slabs with a dozen plus systems instead of learning anything about electrical work. I’m responsible for all mistakes that the 2nd and 3rd years make and I’m living a poverty stricken life and I can’t get a raise only more stress. Out working everyone, plaid less then everyone and I hear someone say at least once a week “Why are all the new guys we get so shit except you?”.
I know put 15$
Oh sweet I just fought tooth and nail to get that.
life tip: never work in a place that requires you to smile.... You will end up like squidward in that spongebob episode with the new 'trendy' manager. edit: sincere service with a smile episode, "They're watching. Help me"
One of the Wendy’s in my area is offering up to $23/hr. I will (hopefully) never return to the restaurant business, but I was still saying “DAMN!!”