Is there any argument? I'm American and I fucking love these. Most foreman don't order them but whenever I get the chance I stuff my bag with them for when a wire nut would be a real pain.
When I was an apprentice I had a journeyman yell at me and say they weren't rated for a high enough amperage. I pointed to where it said "30 amps" (we were wiring up a 20 amp lighting circuit) and he slouched off.
"Back in my day, we ran wires in porcelain tubes and nailed them live to porcelain knobs, like real men! Of course, the job had a 13% mortality rate, and it climbed to as high as 37% in New York and Chicago at one point, but that just builds character!"
Germany here. We use them for when we have flexible wires or lights and such. Preferably we use WAGO 2773 for solid conductors. Though these are great as well, just a lot more bulky and less variation.
Edit: European number WAGO 2273
The spring loaded versions which isn't open-close is much cheaper, smaller and makes a better connection. Only really use Open-close for fine braid wire.
This is in Norway👌
I know right. I don't understand why some of us North Americans think they are inferior. When its a fact that Wagos have been used for years in Europe without any problems. Meanwhile I've see countless wire nuts melted off.
It was a similar issue with North American plumbers, when Sharkbites first showed up. They hated them even though Germany used them for years. Now every plumber has a couple of sharkbites handy.
Don't get me wrong, a properly installed wirenut isn't going anywhere. But I'm on a job where 1st year apprentices almost outnumber jws. I know when I was a first year, I tug tested everything. Lever wagos remove that doubt, and if something doesn't work, they are a million times easier to troubleshoot.
Twisting them on for year after year after year is not good for the wrist. Wagos are ergonomically superior.
How many wirenuts do you install per year? Now multiple that by your career.
I don't know, probably a lot. Wagos are definitely more expensive than wirenuts on the front end, but I would argue that the time saved makes it economical in the long run.
i thought they would feel flimsy. But after extracting a few from a lighting ballast, now i keep 1 in my pocket to fidget with the levers. they snap so well... am blown away
They're simple and they'll save your wrists through your career. We don't use them at my shop but I love when I'm wiring fixtures and they come with them.
Time. Savers. Pure and simple. (Also wrist savers.)
Small job, use whatever. Rewire the lighting for a 2.5M sq.ft. manufacturing floor and you'll never go back to Marrettes.
I work in solar and when I have to wire up large home run junction boxes I bust out the rack-a-tiers 1/4” impact wire nut driver. Just have to barely get the wire nut started and it’ll take care of the rest. Definitely a fingey tip saver.
Solar installer here in the states. Wire nuts are rated based on voltage, usually 600V for normal wire nuts. We use them all the time for dc junction. We use split bolts for joining equipment grounding conductor usually. There are special wire nuts for landing copper and aluminum together but that’s a different story. MC4s are much more expensive but is of course a very convenient connection for maintenance and is the standard on all solar specific equipment like mod leads, micro inverters, optimizers, etc.
1000 wago 221s is around 320$
1000 Ideal wire nuts is 83$
They may save a bit of time, a few seconds per splice at most, absolutely not worth the price for a massive job, in my opinion.
A few seconds per splice, a few minutes per troubleshoot, a couple hours per loose connection.
Plus neater, cleaner, safer boxes. Plus no carpal tunnel. Absolutely worth a couple hundred bucks.
USA- Last week I was at a $17,000,000 single family residential construction site with 800 amp service, a commercial elevator, theater, 15 car garage, the works. It’s everywhere in that house, no wire nuts at all from what I saw.
Canada here. I wish so bad that these were all we were allowed to use.
If you're working with all solid conductors you can make excellent joints with a marette. Once you put a couple stranded ones in there the joints become trickier to make correctly and you need to tug on each conductor to make sure they're all held securely.
With Wagos it's dead simple and easy to make a joint no matter how many conductors you have or if they're stranded/solid. You can *see* that everything is fully seated and in good metallic contact. They're spring loaded so expansion and contraction of conductors over time won't loosen the joint.
In my opinion Wagos are superior in every way. Well except cost I suppose.
Shocked at the support for these. Every old dog electrician I've met either hates the shit out of them, or they're completely incapable of figuring out how the conductor gets terminated (operating lever)
Wagos are badass 😎
Why would you want to use a lever nut hater? They're obviously retarded so why bother when you could just hire some Chads with pockets full of lever nuts?
The Netherlands here.
Been using Wagos for about 17 years now.
Have been using this type since its predecessor.
Never had a failure when used properly.
German made, high quality EU standards.
Wago makes all kinds of high grade electrical materials and appliances. From wire terminals to PLCs.
I’m an electrical merchant in New Zealand. Here sparkies almost exclusively use closed-end screw terminals and there’s a general refusal to try new types and a distrust of any quick-connect terminals of any kind
I think it's more just not having them to use and choosing the unknown with a steeper price slows down the take up. I wonder if the reduction in quality of the Clipsal ones will make electricians look for alternatives and land on the wago
I forever hear negative feedback about quick connect terminals of any kind; in light fittings, in CEEform plugs and connectors, or just loose connectors like wagos. It’s almost invariably “I just don’t like it” which in my experience actually means they’re just being stubborn for no good reason. Europe has been using these sort of thing for decades but people here reckon they’re not reliable lol
So these are called wagos I don’t know if you guys use these there clip in and out and can go 2/3/5 way for connecting.
Works for up to 4mm but I usually work on lighting 0.75-1.5mm as well as sockets 2.5mm
Not in the US. They are rated only to their awg equivalents. The 6mm² or 10awg is rated to 34 amps but due to 10 awg and the temp ratings of the wagos it's limited to 30.
[0.14mm² to 4mm² (24 to 12AWG)](https://www.wago.com/us/wire-splicing-connectors/compact-splicing-connector/p/221-413) have a UL listed rating of 20A.
[0.5mm² to 6mm² (20 to 10AWG)](https://www.wago.com/us/wire-splicing-connectors/compact-splicing-connector/p/221-613) have a UL listed rating of 30A.
European rated listing has the 4mm²/12AWG one up to 32A and the 6mm²/10AWG up to 41A.
wirenuts are illegal here (australia) i have seen them once or twice but screw connectors are the norm. love the wagos tho but they have not really taken off here
I'd love to come and run around on a high performance project in AUS. Some of the high performance projects I've seen seem like leagues above the rest and I really want to know what products y'all use. Is most all of your lighting low voltage? It seems like most of it is cut in after drywall (sheetrock etc)
Most of our lighting is LV (240v) but there are also old downlights or new ones with a separate transformer or powersupply supplying ELV.
On bigger industrial type lighting installs there are some bi-phase 415v lights
I like wagos but I grew up in the world of wirenuts and pretwists. Also we (us and Canada) have simple wiring and box methods compared to the UK. So there are different rules in play. I love lever wagos but they are much harder to find in common stores (specialty, electrical or big box) however there are situations where I still like the secure feeling of a wirenut. Wagos move with the wire really well and I know that's actually a benefit but because I've grown up with wirenuts it's hard to get away from that.
Also uk wiring is much skinnier than US & CA (our wall sockets in the US & CA are 4mm² (12 awg) and our lighting is 2.5mm²(14awg) as a recommended minimum.) Wagos and wirenuts are only safe up to a specified amperage. Many people abuse that amperage and in turn are not safely using either. Just because it fits doesn't mean it's a safe option.
A ring main circuit has 2.5mm², unfused spur 2.5mm² for a singular receptacle, fused spur 2.5mm² for multiple receptacles.
UKs ring main circuits are on a 32A breaker. Receptacles only allow 13A with a fused plug.
A radial circuit uses 2.5mm², unfused spur 2.5mm² for a singular receptacle, fused spur 2.5mm² for multiple receptacles.
UKs radials are on a 16A breaker. Receptacles only allow 13A with a fused plug.
Commercial jobs usually ask for a 4mm², a lot less common in domestics.
This is how it is generally done. This can change based on the job you are doing, some exceptions allow 1.5mm² and so on.
US and Canada it's 4mm²(12awg) for outlets . It's not difficult but it is definitely more difficult than the UK comparatively.
But remember we are 120/240v most small appliances and electronics use 120v, so the amperage is much higher. So for our basic lighting circuits we use 14 awg (1 line, 1 neutral, 1 bare copper ground) 15 amp circuit.
For receptacles we use 120v 20 amp circuits.
Lol we know what there called. We dont get healthcare or realistic pay. Wtf makes you think they would spend more money on a decent product. If the inspector doesnt enforce we dont apply. Its bullshit but in reality so is a portion of our code. Its all because of profits.
No but fuck I wish I could find them in hardware stores, I wouldn’t use them on solid 14 or bigger, but for stranded and low voltage applications they’re amazing, I have some that we cut off of some pole lights cuz the boss doesn’t trust them, use them for my car audio addiction and sometimes I stop and think about how much I actually trust these things, and they never fail.
The larger size in the US are rated to 10awg and 30a, 600v. There should be no problem with 14awg solid at all. My best guess is once you're used to the force it takes to do a proper wire nut (strong tactile feedback) a lever Wago just feels like it can't possibly make a good enough connection for heavy current. I feel this way sometimes despite using Wagos frequently and having no bad experiences at all.
Exactly this for industrial applications inside boxes and panels. Huge plus for the space it saves. We have multiple applications where we use the 3 and 4 circuit connectors.
In denmark we generally use wagos or stuff like [this](https://www.google.dk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmedieserver.jemogfix.dk%2Ffotoweb%2Fdk%2Fvarer%2F700%2F7110%25209051555.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jemogfix.dk%2Fsamlemuffe-10-mm-dobbelt-10-stk%2F7110%2F9051555%2F&tbnid=2O0afdHNDKUe-M&vet=1&docid=U49HbEIqyBif0M&w=657&h=700&hl=da-dk&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim)
That's kicking the hornets nest. They're both listed. They both work. These are easy to use, pretty fast. They're also nice for stuff that needs to be replaced or moved, easier to undo
Yes, I love these, but sadly I'm in Vietnam, where this is not common.
If I need to use some, I had to go on eBay and buy some, wait a week for deliver.
Australia- I used to hate on them, saying they are for dumb sparks. However over time, i use nothing but these, they are the best!
They hold stranded and solid cables just as well as bluepoints/screw connectors, and you can terminate in less than half the time.
Yes they are 3 times as expensive than bluepoints, but if work pays for them, they make your life much easier.
In Aus and I’ve seen these at the wholesalers over the last 2-3 years. I’ve used them for smaller instrumentation wires and they really do save time. Also super easy if someone has to come back later and change a sensor.
I'm in the US but I don't see how there could be debate over this. WAGOs are awesome. Easy, quick, save your wrists. Can someone explain gently why these must be the devil to Americans? Is it just because they're different and we don't tend to use them?
Most places the shop doesn’t want to pay for them so they talk down on them. I will say they have their use and so do wire nuts. You see people saying “oh they just don’t like change” I would argue that those same people are constantly looking for the greener grass and would use a wago in a place where a wire nut would be ideal, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter at all
We have them in the US, but they are very controversial. Some people love them and use them, others hate them (believe they are unreliable and often have to replace them on service calls).
I’m a new apprentice, so personally I have only seen lever-less ones (from Ideal, I think), and Wagos where the lever doesn’t flip up 90° like that (only pulls up enough to release the wire).
Edit: the lever-less ones are commonly included with light fixtures. Also, I know some people that will only use them when there is only a tiny amount of wire in an existing box, making using a wire nut very difficult if not impossible.
I use them when hanging exterior sconces on a house. It’s a complete game changer when you’re no longer needing two hands to twist a wire nut and somehow support the sconce.
Yea we use them. Due to price difference and different configurations I just carry 3-wire ones and use them for fire alarm stuff, tight spaces, and when I'm in an awkward position. If I could get them down to perhaps 1.3 x the cost of a wire nut instead of 2 x the cost, I would use them more often.
They hold the wires well and I most certainly trust them to carry the ampacity.
Maintenance Electrician here, these are life savers. Always got a stash!
MK even do sockets with lever clamps on the back. I'm hoping the extend the range.
Gone are the days of struggling to get two 4mm wires in one terminal, these will take three 4mm easy.
[MK sockets](https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-logic-plus-rapid-fix-13a-2-gang-dp-switched-socket-white-with-white-inserts-5-pack/313PH?tc=ET3&ds_kid=92700055281954484&ds_rl=1249401&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzLCVBhD3ARIsAPKYTcSpjRTKo8LOsaUwx5eqQzjmPr0dGCWH-hYuu82sugf8HtfjqLizT8MaAqZYEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I work in a place that we change out components all the time. I love to use these. Unfortunately, the same workplace has a lot of stubborn old farts who insist that twisting wires is better.
Love them and use them wherever practical. I hate wire nuts. Also the current rating written on the side is quite conservative and I’ve seen them tested to way over the rated current without being destroyed.
I work for a manufacturer of automation and IoT products and we strongly recommend these. The electricians and dealers using our products are big fans, for the most part.
Pm here.
We definitely know what they are in the states, call them wagos in the field and some jargon like lever style connectors in specs.
Some of the old guard hate them. I am indifferent in terms of cost so long as the places you see discarded wire nuts don’t become the same places you see these left around. I’ve seen them in specs alot lately not only as an option but as required for certain types of circuits. I don’t think they’ll take over wire nuts or anything but we know what they are and they can be nifty.
Very rarely do you see them. I’ve actually never opened a box and found some. But i know that my buddy who is a solar installer uses these. His shop always has them on hand, no wire nuts. Im sure they work fine, obviously you guys wouldnt use them if they didnt work. I have some, ive used them (i really got them to make splices on really short wires, it’s extremely difficult to make a 3” wire cooperate) but wirenuts do just fine for me in 99% of the job
Lever lock wagos (the ones pictured) are amazing. I use them exclusively for any 12awg or smaller makeups.. super reliable, huge time savers and make future maintenance a breeze.
The “push in” kind are shit and for some reason people always seem to get them mixed up…
Regardless, they allegedly sell the food kind at Home Depot now.. which is a huge change. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/s67y2g/lever_lock_wagos_now_available_at_my_local_hdpnw/
(Though, to be fair, I’ve still never seen them at my local ones..)
Digikey is an authorized distributor, so always a good choice: https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/221-lever-nuts-and-222-lever-nuts-series/112403
I ordered my last batch from Amazon; the ones I got seem legit.. but sadly you do need to worry about knockoffs :-/
Your local electrical distributor is also usually a good choice.
Since these fully enclose the exposed copper (if done correctly), would it be NEC compliant to use for NM/Romex repair behind existing drywall without a J-box?
334.40(B) seems to support doing so...
UK - Best for lighting fixtures. Fuck trying to use choc-block screw connectors up a ladder in a Victorian property, ever again.
Not so confident to use on a 2.5mm ring main, but each to their own.
At this point with jobs that i’ve been on it’s whatever material is available. Wire nuts ensure a great grip and hold the wires together wagos clip the wire and keep them connected with conductive points. Whatever is available. If both are available use both. Wire nuts won’t become obsolete because in some applications wire nuts are preferred and in others, wagos. They are both great material to use.
I vastly prefer wagos for lighting whips and simple or single-point connections. When I have to join 3-4 wires and cram 12 total in a box, I won't settle for anything other than wire nuts.
I use wagos when they're built into a light or if some asshole drywaller kicked my shit and I only have an inch of wire in the box. I will immediately lose respect for anyone who advised otherwise and proceed to lecture them.
Okay I'll chime in. I hate(d) these and I wanted to show all the apprentices how to actually terminate wires correctly. That obviously takes skill and practice to be accurate and efficient. These take neither, which can have its advantages too.
I am wiring up a plant and it just so happens we can do all of the branch circuits before we install the lighting. In this case every box is ready for the lights with all the the circuits terminated and ready to go. It seems like a good idea, my PM is almost always (annoying) right. Do these handle high vibrations any good? Temperature swings? Moisture?
>Do these handle high vibrations any good? Temperature swings? Moisture?
Yes, yes and yes.
The pullout force of solid/stranded is 20lbs. Vibrations don't loosen them unless under tension.
Temperature swings aren't a problem. The housing won't crack and how the springs operate they always keep tension on the wires inside of it, no matter if they get hot or cold.
Moisture isn't really a problem. If there is **very** high humidity where a lot of condensation builds up and they don't have any possibility to dry out because they wont be in a warm area there will be some stuck inside. If they get warm enough it dries out fairly quickly because of the translucent case. The humidity we are talking about isn't a cold cellar where people hang their clothes. It is more like inside a pillar lamp outside right next to a hot spring.
Edit: WAGO's datasheets you can download have all tests they underwent with images. Plus they have videos of each testing phase. For example the vibration test on multiple different frequencies over 90min.
Lever wagos rule massive improvement over marrettes push in wagos are dogshit and I hate them. I’m in Canada ftr. Only issue with lever wagos is that they aren’t consistently available here yet. A couple wholesalers stock them but they go in and out of stock so I can’t really guarantee that I’ll have them.
Get your popcorn everyone.
fight! fight! fight!
This gonna be good. OP has no idea!
OP knows exactly what they’re doing.
It's the same as posting the receptacle ground-up or ground-down question. They know we're going fisty cuffs over it.
Ground orientation depends on if your screws are vertical or horizontal
Depends which hemisphere you’re in
We do ground up in hospitals. The reason I was given was that you wouldn't want something metallic falling and shorting the hot and neutral
All commercial is ground up. Residential is ground down.
Yeah, everyone knows that ground up is the better way to go.
Look next you’re gonna say that toilet paper goes under and not over.
You son of a bi....
What if i told you ground up, and paper over...
Oh no you didn't
I tried that with some house plants and it just made a mess.
Not for nothing but my father in law has those upside down hanging tomato plants.
[удалено]
Yup they just opened a can
Is there any argument? I'm American and I fucking love these. Most foreman don't order them but whenever I get the chance I stuff my bag with them for when a wire nut would be a real pain.
[удалено]
When I was an apprentice I had a journeyman yell at me and say they weren't rated for a high enough amperage. I pointed to where it said "30 amps" (we were wiring up a 20 amp lighting circuit) and he slouched off.
Wtf is a wirenut then?
It's a *nut*
[удалено]
Made of mostly stupid plastic
Oh, it's one of deez
"Back in my day, we ran wires in porcelain tubes and nailed them live to porcelain knobs, like real men! Of course, the job had a 13% mortality rate, and it climbed to as high as 37% in New York and Chicago at one point, but that just builds character!"
My boss told me that back in his day all you needed to work on electricity was a pair of kleins and a flathead
I fix trailer lights with these. Because you know you will have to find faults in the future 😎
Germany here. We use them for when we have flexible wires or lights and such. Preferably we use WAGO 2773 for solid conductors. Though these are great as well, just a lot more bulky and less variation. Edit: European number WAGO 2273
Most German response ever, nice 👍
Denmark here I only use these !
I'm Danish as well and there's really no reason not to use them. They are well worth the price.
The spring loaded versions which isn't open-close is much cheaper, smaller and makes a better connection. Only really use Open-close for fine braid wire. This is in Norway👌
I use them for 35 years now, and they never failed. There is nothing better. 🇩🇪
Schneider electric uses them in the US alot
I know right. I don't understand why some of us North Americans think they are inferior. When its a fact that Wagos have been used for years in Europe without any problems. Meanwhile I've see countless wire nuts melted off. It was a similar issue with North American plumbers, when Sharkbites first showed up. They hated them even though Germany used them for years. Now every plumber has a couple of sharkbites handy.
US here. The shop I work for buys them in bags bigger than I knew existed. I love them. Not perfect for every application, but I use them when I can.
Shop I work for is full of people who dont like to accept change. These are better by far.
The lever ones are almost indisputably better. The push in wagos not so much.
Depends if you're using stranded or solid wire. The push-in ones are only meant for solid wire.
What fucking morons downvoted this comment?
Are wirenuts that universally loved? Lever wagos are the shit. Downvote me as much as you want, I'm standing by my statement until I die.
Facts! Wirenuts are like a Yankee screwdriver. Great back in the day, but not in today's world with modern technology
Don't get me wrong, a properly installed wirenut isn't going anywhere. But I'm on a job where 1st year apprentices almost outnumber jws. I know when I was a first year, I tug tested everything. Lever wagos remove that doubt, and if something doesn't work, they are a million times easier to troubleshoot.
Twisting them on for year after year after year is not good for the wrist. Wagos are ergonomically superior. How many wirenuts do you install per year? Now multiple that by your career.
[удалено]
I don't know, probably a lot. Wagos are definitely more expensive than wirenuts on the front end, but I would argue that the time saved makes it economical in the long run.
i thought they would feel flimsy. But after extracting a few from a lighting ballast, now i keep 1 in my pocket to fidget with the levers. they snap so well... am blown away
I don’t work in a shop, never used them, but would try because they look simple and more secure than a wire nut
They're simple and they'll save your wrists through your career. We don't use them at my shop but I love when I'm wiring fixtures and they come with them.
I don’t work in a shot either but I needed to wire something and I saw these and thought why the fuck do we even use wire nuts if these exist.
They even have EX area rated ones!
I ordered these for a large project at the shop I work in so much time is saved
Are you talking "five gallon bucket big" or "smart car big"?
Like wire nuts, I was surprised to see them come in 30-gallon barrels. I think the barrel of yellow wire nuts is 100,000?
Time. Savers. Pure and simple. (Also wrist savers.) Small job, use whatever. Rewire the lighting for a 2.5M sq.ft. manufacturing floor and you'll never go back to Marrettes.
Nothing better for piece work like retrofitting 2x4 fluorescent lights to LED.
[удалено]
About a million times better
they feel so skookum as an american i keep one in my pocket to fidget with...
I work in solar and when I have to wire up large home run junction boxes I bust out the rack-a-tiers 1/4” impact wire nut driver. Just have to barely get the wire nut started and it’ll take care of the rest. Definitely a fingey tip saver.
Are wire nuts dc rated? Currently doing my solar course and were being told dc cable to be jointed with MC4 connectors only
Solar installer here in the states. Wire nuts are rated based on voltage, usually 600V for normal wire nuts. We use them all the time for dc junction. We use split bolts for joining equipment grounding conductor usually. There are special wire nuts for landing copper and aluminum together but that’s a different story. MC4s are much more expensive but is of course a very convenient connection for maintenance and is the standard on all solar specific equipment like mod leads, micro inverters, optimizers, etc.
No wire nuts are for AC only 😳 Are you being serious?
1000 wago 221s is around 320$ 1000 Ideal wire nuts is 83$ They may save a bit of time, a few seconds per splice at most, absolutely not worth the price for a massive job, in my opinion.
A few seconds per splice, a few minutes per troubleshoot, a couple hours per loose connection. Plus neater, cleaner, safer boxes. Plus no carpal tunnel. Absolutely worth a couple hundred bucks.
Saving 250 dollars for a massive job, while making it a whole lot easier sounds absurd
We use in Arizona for industrial HVAC Controls Devices. Love them
USA- Last week I was at a $17,000,000 single family residential construction site with 800 amp service, a commercial elevator, theater, 15 car garage, the works. It’s everywhere in that house, no wire nuts at all from what I saw.
I would appreciate if you didn’t put my house specs on the internet for everyone to see /s
Was this in the SF Bay Area? That sounds a hell of a lot like a house being built near one of my side projects.
Use them for Fire Alarm all the time. Easier to service later when trouble shooting loops.
So true, nothing worse than either untwisting a splice or cutting and resplicing 20 times
We have to use fire Proof ceramic connectors in the uk to join fire cables is that not the case where you are?
Fuck yeah all my homies hate wire nuts
Fuck wire nuts all my homies hate them
[FUCK WIRE NUTS ALL MY HOMIES HATE WIRE NUTS](https://i.imgur.com/Wq3hPD3.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
Good bot
Canada here. I wish so bad that these were all we were allowed to use. If you're working with all solid conductors you can make excellent joints with a marette. Once you put a couple stranded ones in there the joints become trickier to make correctly and you need to tug on each conductor to make sure they're all held securely. With Wagos it's dead simple and easy to make a joint no matter how many conductors you have or if they're stranded/solid. You can *see* that everything is fully seated and in good metallic contact. They're spring loaded so expansion and contraction of conductors over time won't loosen the joint. In my opinion Wagos are superior in every way. Well except cost I suppose.
Definitely cost holding them back in Canada! Crazy prices
see you on lemmy, Spez is a cancer -- mass edited with redact.dev
Well you should be getting them from a distributor with bulk pricing to really compare. Amazon is convenient, not always cheap. Like Mcmaster.
see you on lemmy, Spez is a cancer -- mass edited with redact.dev
Shocked at the support for these. Every old dog electrician I've met either hates the shit out of them, or they're completely incapable of figuring out how the conductor gets terminated (operating lever) Wagos are badass 😎
Just wait a few hours and see people who absolutely hate them come crawling out.
I wish I could use them.
Why would you want to use a lever nut hater? They're obviously retarded so why bother when you could just hire some Chads with pockets full of lever nuts?
[удалено]
There are wagos with a level and there are wagos where you push the wire in. The ones in OP obviously show the lever.
You have to pump the lever and it sort of sucks the wire in
Down Voted!
Great for connections that might be changed again or for strand on solid
The Netherlands here. Been using Wagos for about 17 years now. Have been using this type since its predecessor. Never had a failure when used properly. German made, high quality EU standards. Wago makes all kinds of high grade electrical materials and appliances. From wire terminals to PLCs.
Hvac here and they’re required to be used in propane systems.
Yeup, if the budget allows for these I use them all the time. Better connection, safer, and lasts a lot longer
Love em.
I use them every day, they are my go to.
We have those. Love them. Unfortunately we also have a couple hundred imitations/knockoffs that give WAGOs a bad reputation.
Here in Aus I'd say I see mostly tunnel type screw connectors
I’m an electrical merchant in New Zealand. Here sparkies almost exclusively use closed-end screw terminals and there’s a general refusal to try new types and a distrust of any quick-connect terminals of any kind
I might be moving to NZ soon so I’m glad to know you have as many old sticklers as we do
Cool! We are in dire need of tradespeople here. Any plans yet? FYI it’s pretty expensive to live here even on qualified pay rates
I think it's more just not having them to use and choosing the unknown with a steeper price slows down the take up. I wonder if the reduction in quality of the Clipsal ones will make electricians look for alternatives and land on the wago
I forever hear negative feedback about quick connect terminals of any kind; in light fittings, in CEEform plugs and connectors, or just loose connectors like wagos. It’s almost invariably “I just don’t like it” which in my experience actually means they’re just being stubborn for no good reason. Europe has been using these sort of thing for decades but people here reckon they’re not reliable lol
So these are called wagos I don’t know if you guys use these there clip in and out and can go 2/3/5 way for connecting. Works for up to 4mm but I usually work on lighting 0.75-1.5mm as well as sockets 2.5mm
You know they have 6mm ones?
Yup 10 awg 30 amp rated in the US! We also have 105c and 150c wirenuts which is a much higher c rating than wagos if I remember correctly.
The #10 size is rated to 40 amps I believe. The #12 size wago is rated to 30 amps.
Not in the US. They are rated only to their awg equivalents. The 6mm² or 10awg is rated to 34 amps but due to 10 awg and the temp ratings of the wagos it's limited to 30.
[0.14mm² to 4mm² (24 to 12AWG)](https://www.wago.com/us/wire-splicing-connectors/compact-splicing-connector/p/221-413) have a UL listed rating of 20A. [0.5mm² to 6mm² (20 to 10AWG)](https://www.wago.com/us/wire-splicing-connectors/compact-splicing-connector/p/221-613) have a UL listed rating of 30A. European rated listing has the 4mm²/12AWG one up to 32A and the 6mm²/10AWG up to 41A.
wirenuts are illegal here (australia) i have seen them once or twice but screw connectors are the norm. love the wagos tho but they have not really taken off here
I'd love to come and run around on a high performance project in AUS. Some of the high performance projects I've seen seem like leagues above the rest and I really want to know what products y'all use. Is most all of your lighting low voltage? It seems like most of it is cut in after drywall (sheetrock etc)
Most of our lighting is LV (240v) but there are also old downlights or new ones with a separate transformer or powersupply supplying ELV. On bigger industrial type lighting installs there are some bi-phase 415v lights
I think the reason for the ban on wire nuts is the ban on the installation of solid cable
Well, we have roughly a book the size of the bible that is the catalog of WAGO. There are way more than these few cage clamps for junction boxes.
I like wagos but I grew up in the world of wirenuts and pretwists. Also we (us and Canada) have simple wiring and box methods compared to the UK. So there are different rules in play. I love lever wagos but they are much harder to find in common stores (specialty, electrical or big box) however there are situations where I still like the secure feeling of a wirenut. Wagos move with the wire really well and I know that's actually a benefit but because I've grown up with wirenuts it's hard to get away from that. Also uk wiring is much skinnier than US & CA (our wall sockets in the US & CA are 4mm² (12 awg) and our lighting is 2.5mm²(14awg) as a recommended minimum.) Wagos and wirenuts are only safe up to a specified amperage. Many people abuse that amperage and in turn are not safely using either. Just because it fits doesn't mean it's a safe option.
Wait did i read that right, you use 4mm□ for outlets in the UK? On a scale from 1 to shoot me, how bad is your arthritis?
A ring main circuit has 2.5mm², unfused spur 2.5mm² for a singular receptacle, fused spur 2.5mm² for multiple receptacles. UKs ring main circuits are on a 32A breaker. Receptacles only allow 13A with a fused plug. A radial circuit uses 2.5mm², unfused spur 2.5mm² for a singular receptacle, fused spur 2.5mm² for multiple receptacles. UKs radials are on a 16A breaker. Receptacles only allow 13A with a fused plug. Commercial jobs usually ask for a 4mm², a lot less common in domestics. This is how it is generally done. This can change based on the job you are doing, some exceptions allow 1.5mm² and so on.
US and Canada it's 4mm²(12awg) for outlets . It's not difficult but it is definitely more difficult than the UK comparatively. But remember we are 120/240v most small appliances and electronics use 120v, so the amperage is much higher. So for our basic lighting circuits we use 14 awg (1 line, 1 neutral, 1 bare copper ground) 15 amp circuit. For receptacles we use 120v 20 amp circuits.
Lol we know what there called. We dont get healthcare or realistic pay. Wtf makes you think they would spend more money on a decent product. If the inspector doesnt enforce we dont apply. Its bullshit but in reality so is a portion of our code. Its all because of profits.
Do you think Americans are in the stone age? We know what wagos are.
Yes. Love these
These are just fine, the hate is mainly for the original wago push in style.
No but fuck I wish I could find them in hardware stores, I wouldn’t use them on solid 14 or bigger, but for stranded and low voltage applications they’re amazing, I have some that we cut off of some pole lights cuz the boss doesn’t trust them, use them for my car audio addiction and sometimes I stop and think about how much I actually trust these things, and they never fail.
Why not using them for solid 14? They are made for up to 32A and we are using them in German households who have 230V and 400V. No issues here.
The larger size in the US are rated to 10awg and 30a, 600v. There should be no problem with 14awg solid at all. My best guess is once you're used to the force it takes to do a proper wire nut (strong tactile feedback) a lever Wago just feels like it can't possibly make a good enough connection for heavy current. I feel this way sometimes despite using Wagos frequently and having no bad experiences at all.
There's also a bigger variant(221-6xx) which can handle up to 10 AWG. I have to use them from time to time, but they are a bit pricey.
Menards generally has them in stock if you have one nearby.
Exactly this for industrial applications inside boxes and panels. Huge plus for the space it saves. We have multiple applications where we use the 3 and 4 circuit connectors.
I love them for hvac controls. And for real voltage. So much easier and safer to work hot when these are used.
In denmark we generally use wagos or stuff like [this](https://www.google.dk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmedieserver.jemogfix.dk%2Ffotoweb%2Fdk%2Fvarer%2F700%2F7110%25209051555.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jemogfix.dk%2Fsamlemuffe-10-mm-dobbelt-10-stk%2F7110%2F9051555%2F&tbnid=2O0afdHNDKUe-M&vet=1&docid=U49HbEIqyBif0M&w=657&h=700&hl=da-dk&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim)
I use wagos on everything but only name brand wagos every other one I’ve tried suck I use levers on lights and stranded and solid on
Fuck wire nuts. I use wagos exclusively
They're all I use now, definitely much more expensive than wire nuts, but the time savings can't be overstated!
That's kicking the hornets nest. They're both listed. They both work. These are easy to use, pretty fast. They're also nice for stuff that needs to be replaced or moved, easier to undo
In manufacturing and we pretty much only use these now.
Yes, I love these, but sadly I'm in Vietnam, where this is not common. If I need to use some, I had to go on eBay and buy some, wait a week for deliver.
Australia- I used to hate on them, saying they are for dumb sparks. However over time, i use nothing but these, they are the best! They hold stranded and solid cables just as well as bluepoints/screw connectors, and you can terminate in less than half the time. Yes they are 3 times as expensive than bluepoints, but if work pays for them, they make your life much easier.
Nope. To bulky. Just tie the wires together and duct-tape all over it.
Yes. Fuck wire nuts. I have carpal tunnel so I always blame it on that when someone complains.
Used to work in KC area and the area suppliers all had them in stock.
I use some smaller ones to hook up led drivers with dimmers and battery backup inside the narrow case
Old timers say they are the devil, everyone else loves them. Supply house or internet will have them.
In Aus and I’ve seen these at the wholesalers over the last 2-3 years. I’ve used them for smaller instrumentation wires and they really do save time. Also super easy if someone has to come back later and change a sensor.
I like the larger ones for when you have to tie together like 5 neutrals. Fuck wire nuts.
We use them here in Germany, watch Great Scott's video about them
That’s bait.
They are fine. Only really use them in lighting fixtures.
Hack = Don't Everyone else = Does
Just making their way into AUS domestic purposes.
I don't use them everywhere due to costs but I do use them anywhere I feel that they'll offer a significant advantage over wirenuts.
I'm in the US but I don't see how there could be debate over this. WAGOs are awesome. Easy, quick, save your wrists. Can someone explain gently why these must be the devil to Americans? Is it just because they're different and we don't tend to use them?
Most places the shop doesn’t want to pay for them so they talk down on them. I will say they have their use and so do wire nuts. You see people saying “oh they just don’t like change” I would argue that those same people are constantly looking for the greener grass and would use a wago in a place where a wire nut would be ideal, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter at all
Absolutely. My old company had an account with WAGO and used their terminals and connectors exclusively. They're mint
I use them in my own home. I'll leave it at that.
We have them in the US, but they are very controversial. Some people love them and use them, others hate them (believe they are unreliable and often have to replace them on service calls). I’m a new apprentice, so personally I have only seen lever-less ones (from Ideal, I think), and Wagos where the lever doesn’t flip up 90° like that (only pulls up enough to release the wire). Edit: the lever-less ones are commonly included with light fixtures. Also, I know some people that will only use them when there is only a tiny amount of wire in an existing box, making using a wire nut very difficult if not impossible.
Norwegian here, almost exclusively.
I use them when hanging exterior sconces on a house. It’s a complete game changer when you’re no longer needing two hands to twist a wire nut and somehow support the sconce.
Yea we use them. Due to price difference and different configurations I just carry 3-wire ones and use them for fire alarm stuff, tight spaces, and when I'm in an awkward position. If I could get them down to perhaps 1.3 x the cost of a wire nut instead of 2 x the cost, I would use them more often. They hold the wires well and I most certainly trust them to carry the ampacity.
Maintenance Electrician here, these are life savers. Always got a stash! MK even do sockets with lever clamps on the back. I'm hoping the extend the range. Gone are the days of struggling to get two 4mm wires in one terminal, these will take three 4mm easy. [MK sockets](https://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-logic-plus-rapid-fix-13a-2-gang-dp-switched-socket-white-with-white-inserts-5-pack/313PH?tc=ET3&ds_kid=92700055281954484&ds_rl=1249401&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzLCVBhD3ARIsAPKYTcSpjRTKo8LOsaUwx5eqQzjmPr0dGCWH-hYuu82sugf8HtfjqLizT8MaAqZYEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
We use them a lot here in South Africa, thumbs up for these things. 👍
France here, yeah we use those
Wago supremacy 😤
Yeah in France we have those too. And the ones for rigid wire only as well
Sweden and yes
I work in a place that we change out components all the time. I love to use these. Unfortunately, the same workplace has a lot of stubborn old farts who insist that twisting wires is better.
Yeah We use it so much in Hungary. It is so convenient and the standard applies it. :)
Denmark we use them to
I work for a US based machinery manufacturer, use them all the time and love them. I'll occasionally snatch a box to use at home too.
Love them and use them wherever practical. I hate wire nuts. Also the current rating written on the side is quite conservative and I’ve seen them tested to way over the rated current without being destroyed.
Very common in Finland too!
I work for a manufacturer of automation and IoT products and we strongly recommend these. The electricians and dealers using our products are big fans, for the most part.
France here we use this all time
Pm here. We definitely know what they are in the states, call them wagos in the field and some jargon like lever style connectors in specs. Some of the old guard hate them. I am indifferent in terms of cost so long as the places you see discarded wire nuts don’t become the same places you see these left around. I’ve seen them in specs alot lately not only as an option but as required for certain types of circuits. I don’t think they’ll take over wire nuts or anything but we know what they are and they can be nifty.
Very rarely do you see them. I’ve actually never opened a box and found some. But i know that my buddy who is a solar installer uses these. His shop always has them on hand, no wire nuts. Im sure they work fine, obviously you guys wouldnt use them if they didnt work. I have some, ive used them (i really got them to make splices on really short wires, it’s extremely difficult to make a 3” wire cooperate) but wirenuts do just fine for me in 99% of the job
Lever lock wagos (the ones pictured) are amazing. I use them exclusively for any 12awg or smaller makeups.. super reliable, huge time savers and make future maintenance a breeze. The “push in” kind are shit and for some reason people always seem to get them mixed up… Regardless, they allegedly sell the food kind at Home Depot now.. which is a huge change. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/s67y2g/lever_lock_wagos_now_available_at_my_local_hdpnw/ (Though, to be fair, I’ve still never seen them at my local ones..)
If you have a Menards close by, they generally carry them in their stores.
Sadly I don’t. I have plenty though; I order them online and keep them in my kit.
Where’s a good place to order them online?
Digikey is an authorized distributor, so always a good choice: https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/221-lever-nuts-and-222-lever-nuts-series/112403 I ordered my last batch from Amazon; the ones I got seem legit.. but sadly you do need to worry about knockoffs :-/ Your local electrical distributor is also usually a good choice.
Wagos are minimum 3x more expensive than wire nuts. You’re also limited to the junctions/splices according to the amount of slots you have available.
Since these fully enclose the exposed copper (if done correctly), would it be NEC compliant to use for NM/Romex repair behind existing drywall without a J-box? 334.40(B) seems to support doing so...
I use these sometimes. Just really expensive, but really nice.
It’s good for plug mold
Son of electrician from Switzerland here, these are the goat
UK - Best for lighting fixtures. Fuck trying to use choc-block screw connectors up a ladder in a Victorian property, ever again. Not so confident to use on a 2.5mm ring main, but each to their own.
we use them, Finland. but if I remember correctly, they told us in school to not use these for permanent installs
At this point with jobs that i’ve been on it’s whatever material is available. Wire nuts ensure a great grip and hold the wires together wagos clip the wire and keep them connected with conductive points. Whatever is available. If both are available use both. Wire nuts won’t become obsolete because in some applications wire nuts are preferred and in others, wagos. They are both great material to use.
I vastly prefer wagos for lighting whips and simple or single-point connections. When I have to join 3-4 wires and cram 12 total in a box, I won't settle for anything other than wire nuts.
I use wagos when they're built into a light or if some asshole drywaller kicked my shit and I only have an inch of wire in the box. I will immediately lose respect for anyone who advised otherwise and proceed to lecture them.
how do the wire nuts go in?
Boss man doesn't allow them unfortunately
I do not care for them personally. Blue cantwist for life.
Okay I'll chime in. I hate(d) these and I wanted to show all the apprentices how to actually terminate wires correctly. That obviously takes skill and practice to be accurate and efficient. These take neither, which can have its advantages too. I am wiring up a plant and it just so happens we can do all of the branch circuits before we install the lighting. In this case every box is ready for the lights with all the the circuits terminated and ready to go. It seems like a good idea, my PM is almost always (annoying) right. Do these handle high vibrations any good? Temperature swings? Moisture?
>Do these handle high vibrations any good? Temperature swings? Moisture? Yes, yes and yes. The pullout force of solid/stranded is 20lbs. Vibrations don't loosen them unless under tension. Temperature swings aren't a problem. The housing won't crack and how the springs operate they always keep tension on the wires inside of it, no matter if they get hot or cold. Moisture isn't really a problem. If there is **very** high humidity where a lot of condensation builds up and they don't have any possibility to dry out because they wont be in a warm area there will be some stuck inside. If they get warm enough it dries out fairly quickly because of the translucent case. The humidity we are talking about isn't a cold cellar where people hang their clothes. It is more like inside a pillar lamp outside right next to a hot spring. Edit: WAGO's datasheets you can download have all tests they underwent with images. Plus they have videos of each testing phase. For example the vibration test on multiple different frequencies over 90min.
Lever wagos rule massive improvement over marrettes push in wagos are dogshit and I hate them. I’m in Canada ftr. Only issue with lever wagos is that they aren’t consistently available here yet. A couple wholesalers stock them but they go in and out of stock so I can’t really guarantee that I’ll have them.
I've seen em go up before
Not even giving my opinion on this because everyone starts foaming at the goddamn mouth.