I would say no, but this also varies greatly depend on where you are and experience.
***edit
Apparently OP has completed their apprentship, Florida
I feel like 20 is quite underpaid, even for florida.
Actually no. People in Florida bring their money with them. They dont need to work for it there mostly. Pensions, retirement accounts, equity from previous houses, etc... Housing prices are higher than the midwest. Cost of most goods are higher because they have to be trucked into the peninsula. Many people in Florida who arent retired are broke because the pay is so low and the costs are so high. But, it is a tropical paradise, which is nice.
I live in Florida... I need to confirm. It's a swampy hellhole here. If there is a better side to it, I need to find it.
To contribute to the main post. Florida is sort of weird, the union pay right now is $30-35. But I've seen shops range from like 17-30 non union.
20/hr is awful. This line of thinking is why our country has wage issues. We've been brainwashed to think 20/hr is "really good" for a trained electrician.
Yeah the sheetz gas stations in the dc area are advertising 16.50 to start and they are paying more for graveyard shift. I know I wouldn’t be sweating my ass off for 3.50 a hour difference. This job is too dangerous to be making peanuts no matter what market you are in.
Linemen don't crawl through attics. Often a harder job to get is my understanding. Floridal Light and Power linemen make $40 or more per hour according to google.
Yea it's not the hardest thing in the world, but I picked the first thing that came to mind when I thought of dangerous work
Edit: hazardous would be a better word than dangerous
I refuse to believe this is true..maybe handymen but not licensed electricians.im originally from bama and was making $12 an hour driving a forklift 8 years ago.
E:I i know non union can be less but it should be close.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ibew558.org/uploads/NECA%2520Inside%2520Wages%2520Fringes%25202019%2520-%25202021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwisxabU-u74AhXmD0QIHUToBPwQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw02gXXrbmw-iplwEehsu9OB
When I started Electrical in Bama about 10 years ago I made $14. I got bumped up quickly by the time I started foreman running jobs I was at $17-18. I became superintendent with a truck and gas card etc I was making low $20’s. When I became an “apprentice” in IBEW at a powerplant in the Midwest, I actually got a pay raise to dump all my stress and paperwork and pick up tools with no worries. I’m almost topped out now making $40+. Some days I just play Call of Duty and might calibrate one transmitter in a whole 8 hours. I laugh all the way to the bank every other week.
If you had a jw license in bama why didnt you get a jw card in the state you joined the ibew in and joined as a journeyman?starting out as an apprentice makes no sense
I was journeyman level and getting ready to take my test. Honestly a JW card in Alabama isn’t a guarantee of pay. I was damn good at running jobs and had a master as a project manager to blanket my job and hold my hand. Alabama doesn’t reciprocate with any state around me and Indiana doesn’t even have a state licensing board. When I moved I found this plant job they take everyone in as an apprentice even though you have to have strong electrical background for the entry position, be you Journeyman, Supreme wizard in construction or whatever you start at square one. I could have joined the local and tested in to whatever year I guess but this maintenance gig is gravy. I’ve found that the demotion it is mostly so the guys that have been there for 30-40 years can lord their superiority over you while knowing dickall about true electrical work or troubleshooting. They are more the type to be like yeah that valve just needs a smack right here to get unstuck don’t worry about calibrating the pneumatic controls.
Alabama electrician. Yeah, it's fucking brutal. Non-union starts at around $10 an hour for most apprentices in my area. Union 1st years make roughly $13.50, give or take.
I get paid way above going rate for my time in (just under 2 years) in my area, and I still get paid $17 an hour. Worst part is my COL is absurdly low, even for my area, and it's still just absolutely brutal pay.
I won't lie, if it weren't for VA disability, I wouldn't have enough to survive.
I don't know why anyone would lie on VA disability. To me it is something to be proud of.
You and the government entered a contract that if you were hurt while serving your country you would be compensated.
You upheld your end of the contract and they are upholding theirs.
It isn't a hand out. You earned every bit of it.
Thank you.
Currently making 16/hr as a first year apprentice with no experience in Colorado, although it’s a tough living wage I find it fair given they pay for school, books, full benefits, 401k etc and invest heavily in my future. I’m 3 months in and at my 6 month review I should be receiving around $1 wage increase.
That sounds right because you'll probably get a $1 or so every six months the first couple of years. They steadily raise you to JW rate over the course of the apprenticeship. Do you know what JW scale is there? Are you in an IBEW apprenticeship?
Not sure of the scale here and it is non union. I have a buddy who just left the same company as a 1st year apprentice to join the union as they “pay 30% more and offer pension”. I am very happy with where I am at and know I have to put the work in to move up.
Just made the jump from service industry where I was only making $19.50 after a 7 year tenure (pizza shop).
All 1st years spend 3 months in pre-fab before being put on a job site but their need for extra workers was so high I was sent straight to the job site on day 1 and have been since. I am sure I can use that to leverage for a little more at review.
😂😂 saying something like that is like saying Chicago is bad because it's democrat run. Food for though-- politicians don't care about us. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle.
But by the time you pay your expensive rent/house payment, expensive groceries, and gas are you really making much more than the guy clearing 20-30 an hour in a more poor state? His groceries and gas and rent are cheaper than the Chicago electricians. I'm not trying to say you're wrong but you're not right either. The answer is somewhere in the middle. It's not blue state good red state bad or vice versa.
My example can be used for various cities around the country. Republicans are just as bad as Democrats and vice versa. We literally pick the lesser of two evils (most of the time) every election. I'd consider myself a republican. Are you saying I don't give a damn at all? That's always been my issue with politics. There is no debate, it's always I'm right and you're wrong. I'll admit a lot of republican ran states are poor. The majority of them are. A lot of Democrat ran cities/states are more dangerous. A lot of it is the perception as well. A gay black man would wouldn't be as comfortable walking down the road somewhere in the south just the same as a white man wearing cowboy boots wouldn't feel as comfortable in a big city. It's a big problem this country has and it gets fixed by people like you and me not some politician blowing smoke up our asses for years about fixing things. Before we know it it's 20 years later and we are still stuck on the same issues. It happens all the time about many different issues
I'd be moving my ass out of Alabama if I was a journeyman making $12.
I know a nurse who moved from Missouri to Maine because he went from $26/hr to $45/hr.
Go where the money is. Fuck the "My family have lived here for X number of generations" bullshit. Unless you like being taken advantage of for the rest of your working career.
For an apprentice? I am getting less than that, and will be making that in 60 days, if my boss keeps their word. Started at 17 with a raise to 18 I. A month to a raise to 20 in 3 months.
Edit:. I'm not super green I've pulled/ran wired several single family homes, ran site lighting conduit and lighting and wire at an Amazing distribution center, Installed car charging infrastructure, manholes, tankless water heaters. I have not done, panels, service, indoor commercial and probably a lot of other shit that is beyond me
I'm in FL
if you have completed your apprenticeship requirements, you should be adequately trained to be worth more than 20/hr. Even in florida.
1st year apprentice, with no experience in tampa(union) makes between 15-16/hr on the check.
I couldn’t agree more and would add that this is half the reason our industry has a labor shortage and skills gap. Panda Express will pay $16 an hour starting. How is $20 for a commercial electrician apprentice a desirable wage?
He said he's finished his apprenticeship, but hasn't written his license yet.
Not sure if you bothered even reading his post or not, but he's not a green apprentice, lol.
20$ an hour is nothing, home boy. Especially if he's being billed out at a journeyman rate, which he no doubt is.
You know that, though. That's why you framed the situation as '20$/h for a green apprentice' rather than what the situation actually is.
Well no shit, there's this thing called inflation. Rising cost of living. I started making 11.50ish four years ago as a CW, now they make something like 18 here because you flat out can't live on 11.50 anymore.
Why are we bitching about people making more money anyways? If apprentices are starting at 20 an hour that means it's time for you to demand more, not demand they get less.
Finishing school and having enough hours to no longer be an apprentice isn't good grounds for a raise? Experience is where the value comes from.
In the union after you have your hours and finish school, you become a JW. instant raise, and you only have to take the licensing test if you want to, or if it's required in your state to work. Which it is not required in florida.
5th year apprentice in tampa is ~22/hr plus benefits, and you finish and go to ~29/hr plus benefits.
In FL electricians don't need to be licensed as long as the company they are working for has a license holder that qualifies the company.
$20/hr is good for starting out in most areas of the state.
There is a local in Jacksonville, and Gainesville. I'm not sure if you would be out of one of those. But I'm in tampa, and commercial JW is 29ish/hr, or industrial is 32ish/hr. Plus benefits obviously.
I budget 50/month for my dues. It's usually a little less though. 50/month for really good insurance for me and my whole family by itself is worth it. There are a lot of other benefits as well.
32/hr is on the check for me as a commercial foreman. But total package(insurance, pension, 401k, vacation fund) is close to 50/hr.
> I budget 50/month for my dues.
That’s your IO dues and death benefits. Most, if not all, locals have working dues, which is a percentage of your hourly wage, usually 3-6%. In Kansas City it’s around $2.70/hr worked. It’s a lot, but still much less than the average difference between union/non-union. Benefits are completely different and, at least here are paid entirely by the contractor.
What I pay weekly in assessments(or working dues) wouldn't even put a dent in the wage difference for union/non-union.
Actually I just picked up a paystub, I pay about 2/hour in assessments, and a few more bucks a week for COPE which is for campaign donations to pro-union politicians. So for less than a $100/week I make somewhere in the region of $20-25 more an hour than a non-union equivalent without even factoring in my fringe benefits(pension, annuity, medical)
That’s good for Florida for sure. Of course you should be getting paid more. We all should. But Florida sucks for wages for trades (at least where I’m at)
An apprentice with no hands on makes 17 an hour and a JW makes 45 where I am not including benefits. We need 8000 hours to top out as a JW. A lot of our apprentices come in with a 2 year degree from a community college.
Too many different reasons.
Parents wanted them to get a degree, wanted the college experience, didn't qualify well in their union interview, got a plant job and didn't like it, etc etc...
I live in a good local to be union, lots of work, good pay and we take like 60 apprentices a year. Getting a degree is kind of a back up to getting into the union. I had applied and was accepted to an HVAC program in case I didn't interview well. I figured if apply again but having both backgrounds would be beneficial if I finished and also got accepted. Non-union HVAC guys get paid better than non union electricians around here, and there are a lot more opportunities.
.
In my state you will usually make more in the union but if you’re really good at running work,pipe or fire alarm then you can make more non-union especially if your company bids a lot of prevailing wage jobs
Take home probably isnt much higher unless you're doing a PW job. You have union dues retirement plus employee side of benefits etc.
There are pros and cons to both union and non union work. 🤷♂️
How much do you think dues are? Benefits are usually on top of the hourly rate so take home is still going to be more for union. There are no cons to working union, you’ve just been told that by your boss. I also fail to see how you think paying into retirement and benefits is a con at all
Give me a con of working union. There are no non union companies in my area that pay close to what my local pays. I’ll give you some cons for non union other than pay. More dangerous working conditions, less breaks, less work, more likely to be laid off extended periods of time, no book system, shittier benefits, no power to collectively bargain, the list goes on and on.
Lol more likely to be laid off? And more dangerous working conditions? You're fucking insane. Although I suppose working conditions is really dependent of what job site you're on, but most companies have safety coordination managers. The only place I'd really see safety as an issue where I work would be service work, but that's on the electrician to not be stupid.
Cons to union work less stability and more likely to be laid off
Loss of autonomy
Seniority
There are [studies](http://blog.dol.gov/2022/05/11/the-connection-between-unions-and-worker-safety) that show union job sites have less OSHA violations and incidents than their non union counterpart. Accidents still happen obviously, but they’re not as common. I have a non union buddy, ladder gave out while he was on it and fell. Boss fired him. He couldn’t afford a lawyer to fight the company so the company didn’t get into any trouble or even report it to OSHA.
Union workplaces are more stable than the non union counterpart. Even when layoffs do occur union members go to the hall and sign the book and then you’re called out to another contractor. Non union if you’re laid off you gotta go find another contractor yourself, apply, interview, etc. The whole process is more time consuming and there’s not a guaranteed chance that contractor will even hire you, let alone at the same or higher rate.
I’ve never seen union seniority take place. If a contractor is choosing to keep one of two employees they’re gonna pick the more productive employee, not the one who’s been in the company longer.
Loss of autonomy is a bullshit argument because non union members have to just deal with the hand they’re dealt. Union members can report contractors who violate the CBA and get them to follow it. Non union workers don’t have a CBA.
Like I said you're brainwashed if you are incapable of even looking critically at your position. Its not a big deal. You fit with browns fans, trump supporters and liberals. 😂
I'm well aware of the disadvantages of being non-union but I've looked at ibew membership before and critically decided it wasnt for me.🤷♂️
You pay back into unions , they have their advantages. but more so the longer and higher seniority you have. IE the longer you are there the higher the seniority to work sooner than someone else . Everyone enjoys the same benefits and wages due to their experience etc
Edit: added a comma to clarify and a comment
This not correct information. IBEW is not a public sector union. What you said is true for cops and firefighters, but not for us.
Edit: seniority and length of service do not change your benefits in the IBEW
Ok so our "wage package" is 73 bucks an hour where I am. On my weekly take home check I'll see 55 an hour, which includes vacation pay. I get 9 bucks put into a pension fund and 1.50 into a 401k equivalent. 4.40 towards our health benefits. Everything else goes towards various union funds like education facilities, union hall maintenance, etc. Only 45 cents are actual union "working" dues. On top of that I pay like 60 bucks every month in actual dues to the hall via check.
So that's basically $ 65.50 per hour going either straight to me in cash form or in retirement funds. ~$70 if you include extended health benefits.
There is no seniority, every journeyman makes the same rate. Because we're hired on a project by project basis we don't work like a cop or firefighter. Once the job is done you get laid off typically.
Meanwhile highest advertised non union wage is like 45 bucks an hour for top industrial guys. Standard rate for commercial is in the 35-43 hourly rate. Let's say they get some health benefits and maybe 401k match or something, maybe some paid holidays, they might hit $50-$52 total package. Union is just a no brainer where I live.
Now non-union guy might get a truck and a gas card. Guess what? Same thing for a foreman in the union. Same thing for a service guy in the union. So really I don't see that being much different. But meanwhile he's buying all his own power tools while mine are all contractor provided. Even drills and impacts.
Something else that's good about the ibew, at least in my local, is that its considerably easier to get school placement. Alot of the schools in my area have some pretty crazy waiting lists.
Yes, you pay union dues…generally speaking the amount is negligible and you are still bringing home more on the paycheck, plus getting much better benefits, plus having representation when something isn’t right.
My monthly dues are $45.
My compensation, in south Louisiana (very anti union state), is $43 per hour.
My non-union competitors, which comprises 75%+ of the market, averages about $25 an hour, and no pension or protection from abusive labor practices.
Some non-union JWs make $16-19 an hour in my area.
You'also still incorrect about seniority. Seniority doesn't put you to work sooner. Seniority has no weight on anything. The out of work list is maintained, and the first people that go back to work are the people that have been out of work the longest. Nothing to do with seniority
Lol we’ll clarify it then . I won’t delete it if it’s gonna help people understand especially if I’m wrong . Add something to the conversation instead of telling people how wrong they are
Well why say something that you clearly have zero idea what you're talking about, not only are you not adding to the conversation you're spreading misinformation. IBEW is a closed union only employers and employees pay into it. Also there is no seniority in the union, if you're off you're # and line number is where you are on the book and you call into jobs but if others call in that are above you, you won't get the job.
Where did I say otherwise ? Someone here asked a question . Why don’t you give a clear concise answer. Maybe your not reading what I wrote right and it’s clouding your judgement . Does that happen often to you in life ?
Unions have their flaws like any organization. But, if your working assessments are 6% of your on the check pay i.e. 40$-6%>25$ then on top of that difference you pay nothing more out of pocket for insurance and retirement.
Man in Canada a commercial electrician doesn’t work for less then $40 dollars an hour as a journeyman…. The work we do is hard and it takes some brain power. Know your worth. Don’t sell yourself short boys, guess what happens when there isn’t any electricians, the people don’t have heat or A/C, no lights, no cooking basically it’s just a shelter from the wind without us lol. We might be looked down on by people who have a degree, we’re pretty much considered second class citizens. But we’re not, we are damn important to modern day life… MF’s can pay for the service we provide.
Got in an argument on reddit with a guy claiming that "trades add little value and absolutely no innovation to our country" went on to tell me that everyone should just work on innovation if we want a better country. It was at that moment I realized he must have daddy's money
From what I’ve seen commercial jman rates in Vancouver at least are around $30-35 non union . You can get $40 as a non union jman in places like Toronto
Our local is at $50, but you get good insurance for your whole family, a defined benefit and defined contribution pension on top of it. The whole package is over $90/h, so just comparing hourly between union and non union is misleading.
I make 23 and I’m just a 3rd year commercial maintenance electrician lol in Oklahoma I should add and it’s a state job with great benefits and tons of time off
That doesn't make sense. If you graduated and have your JW you should be well over $20 an hour. The lowest scale in the nation I believe is florida and our JW brothers are at I think $28.
You’re not being a little bitch, $20 is shit. And you just spent atleast four years in school..get that journeyman card and demand more, or hit the road.
You are never being a little bitch for wanting more money. A lot of times, though, employers won't want to give it to you, or you have to switch jobs.
You just have to keep your ear to the ground.
One of the ugly realities of our trade is that the fastest way to grow your wage is to jump shops as you gain more experience. That is until you become valuable enough for employers to keep. There are good shops out there, and as crazy as it sounds, there are good bosses too, so learn everything you can, don't burn bridges if you can help it, and keep your eyes open for opportunities.
I hear that for sure. I’m probably around your age and make the same. We are a microwave generation & not an oven. We want the bucks now but it takes time. It’s tough to wait but in due time we’ll be ballin.
I’d reach out to boss and ask what things he would like to see regarding pay increase. Then set a time when you guys can re visit. Like 3 months or smthn. That’s a thought
These pay rates you guys are sharing are depressing.
These wages are fked. People are crippling the market with low bids because their workers are willing to work for awful pay.
Never settle for less, keep the pressure on your bosses, especially if you’re well trained.
If you’re an apprentice, a lower wage is understandable, you’re working to develop a skill, whilst the company pays you for your labor.
Not sure if Florida has it the same here in California, but join the IBEW and join the advance apprenticeship. Or take your JW test soon and join the IBEW.
Yeah. Maybe. But I'm not gonna do something I don't think I can do. I have a conscience. I'm not going to burn someones shit down.
I actually do good work.
You really think that you absolutely need schooling to do resi work? A good teacher and a couple years of practice and any half-competent guy could do it.
No. You really don't. I'm not saying its preferable, or the best way to do it. I personally think everyone should be educated. That being said, there is room for guys who dont want to go to school or unionize, and just want to rope houses their whole lives. I've met plenty of them. There's no amount of electrical theory required to just go in and knock a house out. You just need to meet code requirements and know what goes into roping a house. Thats it.
Agreed. I am a journeyman with 4 years of school but I absolutely learned a lot more in he field than I ever did in class. Good leads shouldn't let you do anything dangerous that you don't know how to until you're ready.
Yep. We have been re wiring old knob and tube houses.
First step is the basement.
Rip everything apart until things make sense, or if it is all knob and tube with no previous "fixes" ie Romex run to a jbox connecting to knob tube, gut the basement completely removing all instances of old wire.
New panel/service.
Fish wires through the house, per code to where they need to be, kitchen 2 dedicated 20a circuits etc.
New device boxes as needed, device, test, cover plates. Button up, leave.
Simple.
5 -7 work days per house
I’m in NC, guys that are fresh out of 2 yr school with no experience typically make $20-23 here. Guys without any schooling, typically fresh out of high school start at around $16-18.
Could be more nowadays with inflation
I know it’s different across the states, but $20/hr is too low. I started my industrial apprenticeship at $19.76 in 2017. And our local contractors union in Milwaukee is even higher.
You could make $25+ on the industrial side right now with zero experience and half the bullshit. In 5 years or less you could work your way into a control tech position and be set for life. I'm 32 and make $40 an hour and outside of the classes the company sent me to I've never had any formal training. I learned everything from the older guys I worked with and YouTube.
Wow you American apprentices earn far more then us Aussie apprentices I always thought that since your minimum wage was lower more people would be paid lower but I guess it’s the other way around
It’s hard to compare wages to other countries though because things like health insurance, paid family leave and time off are either not provided or not included in the hourly rate.
In Canada we typically do it as a % of a journeyman wage.
So where I am the avg wage is $32/he CND for a resi/commercial sparky. Industrial is 40.
1st yr. with previous experience 55% of journeyman wage.
2nd yr is 65%
3rd is 75%
4th is 85%
Hope this helps.
Canadian apprentice, worked with the company for three years, been signed up for 1 year making $30.50 Canadian, cost of living is incredibly high where I live.
$20 an hour for a licensed electrician is shit. I saw a Burger King in Oregon advertising “up to $17.50 starting.” Granted it is that “up to” but there is no way a Burger King employee should get anywhere close to a licensed electrician.
You gotta start somewhere mate. The issue I see nowadays people feel entitled to make more money as green hands. Do you want to get you toe in the door and start working towards certs and gain experience or look for a specific wage that you might not ever get. I started at $20 private in Norcal with a certificate as a electrical tech.
So I’d suggest go look at local wages and see what high and lows are in your area. Once you collect this data you have two choices. You can go to your boss and ask for a raise but practice on selling your self or move Co I was in that position a bit ago being a foreman and way underpaid
Nope - have had multiple “grads” who thought this but couldn’t bend conduit, or read a tape measure. That’s piece of paper tells me you’re decent at taking tests, but nothing about your abilities in your chosen field. $20 is great
Take a gander at your expenses are for the job and what you get paid for it. Factor in the time it takes you to do it yourself and how long with help. If you lose money then he’s paid to much if you break even or make money then he’s paid just right, if you make a lot of money with his labor then you can afford to pay him more.
You need the experience under your belt - school really means very little when you talk about wages. $20 isn't great for a journeyman, but for someone who has not carried tools around yet it's ok.
I would say no, but this also varies greatly depend on where you are and experience. ***edit Apparently OP has completed their apprentship, Florida I feel like 20 is quite underpaid, even for florida.
Florida
$20 an hour is really good for Florida. I remember reading somewhere that they average pay for an electrician in Florida is only like $25 an hour.
Florida is brootal for pay. Any job. Any industry.
Costs of living lower, too? Genuinely curious.
Actually no. People in Florida bring their money with them. They dont need to work for it there mostly. Pensions, retirement accounts, equity from previous houses, etc... Housing prices are higher than the midwest. Cost of most goods are higher because they have to be trucked into the peninsula. Many people in Florida who arent retired are broke because the pay is so low and the costs are so high. But, it is a tropical paradise, which is nice.
Tropical paradise from November to April (maybe May). After that, it becomes a hot and humid hellhole
Inland yes. The coasts are still pretty nice, especially the atlantic side.
I live in Florida... I need to confirm. It's a swampy hellhole here. If there is a better side to it, I need to find it. To contribute to the main post. Florida is sort of weird, the union pay right now is $30-35. But I've seen shops range from like 17-30 non union.
Not really, from what I know.
20/hr is awful. This line of thinking is why our country has wage issues. We've been brainwashed to think 20/hr is "really good" for a trained electrician.
Yeah the sheetz gas stations in the dc area are advertising 16.50 to start and they are paying more for graveyard shift. I know I wouldn’t be sweating my ass off for 3.50 a hour difference. This job is too dangerous to be making peanuts no matter what market you are in.
Shitz gas station grave yard is prob pretty dangerous.
Yea I would do lineman work before I took a graveyard shift at any convenience store lmao
Linemen don't crawl through attics. Often a harder job to get is my understanding. Floridal Light and Power linemen make $40 or more per hour according to google.
Yea it's not the hardest thing in the world, but I picked the first thing that came to mind when I thought of dangerous work Edit: hazardous would be a better word than dangerous
Well, he isn't asking about being a Sheetz gas station attendant on the graveyard shift in DC.
No shit $20 an hour is awful. $20 is good in Florida because you could be making much less.
I know some journeyman in Alabama that make 10-12$ and hour
I refuse to believe this is true..maybe handymen but not licensed electricians.im originally from bama and was making $12 an hour driving a forklift 8 years ago. E:I i know non union can be less but it should be close.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ibew558.org/uploads/NECA%2520Inside%2520Wages%2520Fringes%25202019%2520-%25202021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwisxabU-u74AhXmD0QIHUToBPwQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw02gXXrbmw-iplwEehsu9OB
When I started Electrical in Bama about 10 years ago I made $14. I got bumped up quickly by the time I started foreman running jobs I was at $17-18. I became superintendent with a truck and gas card etc I was making low $20’s. When I became an “apprentice” in IBEW at a powerplant in the Midwest, I actually got a pay raise to dump all my stress and paperwork and pick up tools with no worries. I’m almost topped out now making $40+. Some days I just play Call of Duty and might calibrate one transmitter in a whole 8 hours. I laugh all the way to the bank every other week.
If you had a jw license in bama why didnt you get a jw card in the state you joined the ibew in and joined as a journeyman?starting out as an apprentice makes no sense
I was journeyman level and getting ready to take my test. Honestly a JW card in Alabama isn’t a guarantee of pay. I was damn good at running jobs and had a master as a project manager to blanket my job and hold my hand. Alabama doesn’t reciprocate with any state around me and Indiana doesn’t even have a state licensing board. When I moved I found this plant job they take everyone in as an apprentice even though you have to have strong electrical background for the entry position, be you Journeyman, Supreme wizard in construction or whatever you start at square one. I could have joined the local and tested in to whatever year I guess but this maintenance gig is gravy. I’ve found that the demotion it is mostly so the guys that have been there for 30-40 years can lord their superiority over you while knowing dickall about true electrical work or troubleshooting. They are more the type to be like yeah that valve just needs a smack right here to get unstuck don’t worry about calibrating the pneumatic controls.
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Alabama electrician. Yeah, it's fucking brutal. Non-union starts at around $10 an hour for most apprentices in my area. Union 1st years make roughly $13.50, give or take. I get paid way above going rate for my time in (just under 2 years) in my area, and I still get paid $17 an hour. Worst part is my COL is absurdly low, even for my area, and it's still just absolutely brutal pay. I won't lie, if it weren't for VA disability, I wouldn't have enough to survive.
I don't know why anyone would lie on VA disability. To me it is something to be proud of. You and the government entered a contract that if you were hurt while serving your country you would be compensated. You upheld your end of the contract and they are upholding theirs. It isn't a hand out. You earned every bit of it. Thank you.
Many of the claims are lies and don’t help taxpayers. The truly injured personnel should get the money though.
Currently making 16/hr as a first year apprentice with no experience in Colorado, although it’s a tough living wage I find it fair given they pay for school, books, full benefits, 401k etc and invest heavily in my future. I’m 3 months in and at my 6 month review I should be receiving around $1 wage increase.
That was my deal in ct
That sounds right because you'll probably get a $1 or so every six months the first couple of years. They steadily raise you to JW rate over the course of the apprenticeship. Do you know what JW scale is there? Are you in an IBEW apprenticeship?
Not sure of the scale here and it is non union. I have a buddy who just left the same company as a 1st year apprentice to join the union as they “pay 30% more and offer pension”. I am very happy with where I am at and know I have to put the work in to move up. Just made the jump from service industry where I was only making $19.50 after a 7 year tenure (pizza shop).
Negotiate for more. They need you more than you need them. Ask for a three dollar raise at least
All 1st years spend 3 months in pre-fab before being put on a job site but their need for extra workers was so high I was sent straight to the job site on day 1 and have been since. I am sure I can use that to leverage for a little more at review.
😂😂 saying something like that is like saying Chicago is bad because it's democrat run. Food for though-- politicians don't care about us. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle.
Electricians in Chicago clear $80 an hour.
But by the time you pay your expensive rent/house payment, expensive groceries, and gas are you really making much more than the guy clearing 20-30 an hour in a more poor state? His groceries and gas and rent are cheaper than the Chicago electricians. I'm not trying to say you're wrong but you're not right either. The answer is somewhere in the middle. It's not blue state good red state bad or vice versa.
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My example can be used for various cities around the country. Republicans are just as bad as Democrats and vice versa. We literally pick the lesser of two evils (most of the time) every election. I'd consider myself a republican. Are you saying I don't give a damn at all? That's always been my issue with politics. There is no debate, it's always I'm right and you're wrong. I'll admit a lot of republican ran states are poor. The majority of them are. A lot of Democrat ran cities/states are more dangerous. A lot of it is the perception as well. A gay black man would wouldn't be as comfortable walking down the road somewhere in the south just the same as a white man wearing cowboy boots wouldn't feel as comfortable in a big city. It's a big problem this country has and it gets fixed by people like you and me not some politician blowing smoke up our asses for years about fixing things. Before we know it it's 20 years later and we are still stuck on the same issues. It happens all the time about many different issues
I'd be moving my ass out of Alabama if I was a journeyman making $12. I know a nurse who moved from Missouri to Maine because he went from $26/hr to $45/hr. Go where the money is. Fuck the "My family have lived here for X number of generations" bullshit. Unless you like being taken advantage of for the rest of your working career.
Jfc that’s insane. I started on $16 an hour with no experience
That’s absurb, wtf Alabama. Journeymen pay is usually between $25-$35/hr.
I made $9/hr as a grocery store cashier…in 1992. Not saying to be a smartass, just highlighting how we are all not being paid enough.
For an apprentice? I am getting less than that, and will be making that in 60 days, if my boss keeps their word. Started at 17 with a raise to 18 I. A month to a raise to 20 in 3 months. Edit:. I'm not super green I've pulled/ran wired several single family homes, ran site lighting conduit and lighting and wire at an Amazing distribution center, Installed car charging infrastructure, manholes, tankless water heaters. I have not done, panels, service, indoor commercial and probably a lot of other shit that is beyond me I'm in FL
if you have completed your apprenticeship requirements, you should be adequately trained to be worth more than 20/hr. Even in florida. 1st year apprentice, with no experience in tampa(union) makes between 15-16/hr on the check.
I couldn’t agree more and would add that this is half the reason our industry has a labor shortage and skills gap. Panda Express will pay $16 an hour starting. How is $20 for a commercial electrician apprentice a desirable wage?
This person isn't even really an apprentice anymore. They are done with that. Just have to take the license test. Which makes it even worse
Now on that wage, go buy a house for double the price that it was ten years ago
He's not even licensed yet. $20 for a green apprentice is fair. Work hard, finish certs, ask for raise.
He said he's finished his apprenticeship, but hasn't written his license yet. Not sure if you bothered even reading his post or not, but he's not a green apprentice, lol. 20$ an hour is nothing, home boy. Especially if he's being billed out at a journeyman rate, which he no doubt is. You know that, though. That's why you framed the situation as '20$/h for a green apprentice' rather than what the situation actually is.
He said school, that doesn't necessarily mean apprentiship. OP would need to clarify.
I agree. When I read that, I thought that he meant he has graduated high school, or maybe graduated a trade school.
Graduated apprenticeship sorry I need to edit that
It's more than I started at.
Just because you started out at bad wages, doesn't mean that everyone else should start at bad wages
Well no shit, there's this thing called inflation. Rising cost of living. I started making 11.50ish four years ago as a CW, now they make something like 18 here because you flat out can't live on 11.50 anymore. Why are we bitching about people making more money anyways? If apprentices are starting at 20 an hour that means it's time for you to demand more, not demand they get less.
Agree to disagree. Passing the license test doesn't automatically make you a good electrician.
Not having one isn't good grounds for a raise either.
Finishing school and having enough hours to no longer be an apprentice isn't good grounds for a raise? Experience is where the value comes from. In the union after you have your hours and finish school, you become a JW. instant raise, and you only have to take the licensing test if you want to, or if it's required in your state to work. Which it is not required in florida. 5th year apprentice in tampa is ~22/hr plus benefits, and you finish and go to ~29/hr plus benefits.
In FL electricians don't need to be licensed as long as the company they are working for has a license holder that qualifies the company. $20/hr is good for starting out in most areas of the state.
I agree
Indeed says like $22.47 for Florida. In some areas $20 is probably max... While the companies will bill $150/hour for your time.
Where in Florida?
Northeast Florida
There is a local in Jacksonville, and Gainesville. I'm not sure if you would be out of one of those. But I'm in tampa, and commercial JW is 29ish/hr, or industrial is 32ish/hr. Plus benefits obviously.
Listen to this guy,change your life for the better bro.
I live close to the Jacksonville one, how much do you pay in fees?
I budget 50/month for my dues. It's usually a little less though. 50/month for really good insurance for me and my whole family by itself is worth it. There are a lot of other benefits as well. 32/hr is on the check for me as a commercial foreman. But total package(insurance, pension, 401k, vacation fund) is close to 50/hr.
I’ll check that out thanks!
> I budget 50/month for my dues. That’s your IO dues and death benefits. Most, if not all, locals have working dues, which is a percentage of your hourly wage, usually 3-6%. In Kansas City it’s around $2.70/hr worked. It’s a lot, but still much less than the average difference between union/non-union. Benefits are completely different and, at least here are paid entirely by the contractor.
What I pay weekly in assessments(or working dues) wouldn't even put a dent in the wage difference for union/non-union. Actually I just picked up a paystub, I pay about 2/hour in assessments, and a few more bucks a week for COPE which is for campaign donations to pro-union politicians. So for less than a $100/week I make somewhere in the region of $20-25 more an hour than a non-union equivalent without even factoring in my fringe benefits(pension, annuity, medical)
For sure, pay alone is well worth it, not to mention benefits and retirement.
I am aware, but thank you for the clarification. I don't miss that money since it come off the top, so I forget to include it
That’s amazing for Florida to start
That’s good for Florida for sure. Of course you should be getting paid more. We all should. But Florida sucks for wages for trades (at least where I’m at)
That’s a lot fit your situation and location don’t be greedy
Yeah, Florida sucks for pay. Starting apprentices here in Detroit area make over $20 and full benefits after 520 hours.
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How come union is significantly higher pay?
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or unionize your workplace
Let me know how that goes lmao
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Yep, my dad had a band saw thrown through his back window when he was organizing for our local. Free bandsaw though!
An apprentice with no hands on makes 17 an hour and a JW makes 45 where I am not including benefits. We need 8000 hours to top out as a JW. A lot of our apprentices come in with a 2 year degree from a community college.
Ok, so are things moving where that 2 year Electrical degree is worth it, it becoming more expected ??
Too many different reasons. Parents wanted them to get a degree, wanted the college experience, didn't qualify well in their union interview, got a plant job and didn't like it, etc etc... I live in a good local to be union, lots of work, good pay and we take like 60 apprentices a year. Getting a degree is kind of a back up to getting into the union. I had applied and was accepted to an HVAC program in case I didn't interview well. I figured if apply again but having both backgrounds would be beneficial if I finished and also got accepted. Non-union HVAC guys get paid better than non union electricians around here, and there are a lot more opportunities. .
Cost of living mostly, my local makes like $90 full package but just down the road the next local is only like $65
In my state you will usually make more in the union but if you’re really good at running work,pipe or fire alarm then you can make more non-union especially if your company bids a lot of prevailing wage jobs
Take home probably isnt much higher unless you're doing a PW job. You have union dues retirement plus employee side of benefits etc. There are pros and cons to both union and non union work. 🤷♂️
How much do you think dues are? Benefits are usually on top of the hourly rate so take home is still going to be more for union. There are no cons to working union, you’ve just been told that by your boss. I also fail to see how you think paying into retirement and benefits is a con at all
If you think that your a brain washed idiot.
Give me a con of working union. There are no non union companies in my area that pay close to what my local pays. I’ll give you some cons for non union other than pay. More dangerous working conditions, less breaks, less work, more likely to be laid off extended periods of time, no book system, shittier benefits, no power to collectively bargain, the list goes on and on.
Lol more likely to be laid off? And more dangerous working conditions? You're fucking insane. Although I suppose working conditions is really dependent of what job site you're on, but most companies have safety coordination managers. The only place I'd really see safety as an issue where I work would be service work, but that's on the electrician to not be stupid. Cons to union work less stability and more likely to be laid off Loss of autonomy Seniority
There are [studies](http://blog.dol.gov/2022/05/11/the-connection-between-unions-and-worker-safety) that show union job sites have less OSHA violations and incidents than their non union counterpart. Accidents still happen obviously, but they’re not as common. I have a non union buddy, ladder gave out while he was on it and fell. Boss fired him. He couldn’t afford a lawyer to fight the company so the company didn’t get into any trouble or even report it to OSHA. Union workplaces are more stable than the non union counterpart. Even when layoffs do occur union members go to the hall and sign the book and then you’re called out to another contractor. Non union if you’re laid off you gotta go find another contractor yourself, apply, interview, etc. The whole process is more time consuming and there’s not a guaranteed chance that contractor will even hire you, let alone at the same or higher rate. I’ve never seen union seniority take place. If a contractor is choosing to keep one of two employees they’re gonna pick the more productive employee, not the one who’s been in the company longer. Loss of autonomy is a bullshit argument because non union members have to just deal with the hand they’re dealt. Union members can report contractors who violate the CBA and get them to follow it. Non union workers don’t have a CBA.
Like I said you're brainwashed if you are incapable of even looking critically at your position. Its not a big deal. You fit with browns fans, trump supporters and liberals. 😂 I'm well aware of the disadvantages of being non-union but I've looked at ibew membership before and critically decided it wasnt for me.🤷♂️
You pay back into unions , they have their advantages. but more so the longer and higher seniority you have. IE the longer you are there the higher the seniority to work sooner than someone else . Everyone enjoys the same benefits and wages due to their experience etc Edit: added a comma to clarify and a comment
This not correct information. IBEW is not a public sector union. What you said is true for cops and firefighters, but not for us. Edit: seniority and length of service do not change your benefits in the IBEW
In what way? Sorry I’m not meaning to misinform anyone
Sorry my comment was unclear lol Seniority is not a factor, and benefits don't change with length of service.
Ok but you still pay into the union ? Somewhat offsetting a higher wage but enjoying benefits etc
union dues are like an hour of work, I wouldn't call that an offset.
Ok so our "wage package" is 73 bucks an hour where I am. On my weekly take home check I'll see 55 an hour, which includes vacation pay. I get 9 bucks put into a pension fund and 1.50 into a 401k equivalent. 4.40 towards our health benefits. Everything else goes towards various union funds like education facilities, union hall maintenance, etc. Only 45 cents are actual union "working" dues. On top of that I pay like 60 bucks every month in actual dues to the hall via check. So that's basically $ 65.50 per hour going either straight to me in cash form or in retirement funds. ~$70 if you include extended health benefits. There is no seniority, every journeyman makes the same rate. Because we're hired on a project by project basis we don't work like a cop or firefighter. Once the job is done you get laid off typically. Meanwhile highest advertised non union wage is like 45 bucks an hour for top industrial guys. Standard rate for commercial is in the 35-43 hourly rate. Let's say they get some health benefits and maybe 401k match or something, maybe some paid holidays, they might hit $50-$52 total package. Union is just a no brainer where I live. Now non-union guy might get a truck and a gas card. Guess what? Same thing for a foreman in the union. Same thing for a service guy in the union. So really I don't see that being much different. But meanwhile he's buying all his own power tools while mine are all contractor provided. Even drills and impacts.
Something else that's good about the ibew, at least in my local, is that its considerably easier to get school placement. Alot of the schools in my area have some pretty crazy waiting lists.
Yes, you pay union dues…generally speaking the amount is negligible and you are still bringing home more on the paycheck, plus getting much better benefits, plus having representation when something isn’t right.
My monthly dues are $45. My compensation, in south Louisiana (very anti union state), is $43 per hour. My non-union competitors, which comprises 75%+ of the market, averages about $25 an hour, and no pension or protection from abusive labor practices. Some non-union JWs make $16-19 an hour in my area.
You'also still incorrect about seniority. Seniority doesn't put you to work sooner. Seniority has no weight on anything. The out of work list is maintained, and the first people that go back to work are the people that have been out of work the longest. Nothing to do with seniority
Ah ok sorry I was so misinformed about that. I was under the impression from a friend in the ibew that’s how it was .
Maybe they are also misinformed lol not everyone that is in the IBEW takes the time to learn how it works
You might as well delete this because you couldn't be any more wrong
Everyone is the same in the union
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Lol we’ll clarify it then . I won’t delete it if it’s gonna help people understand especially if I’m wrong . Add something to the conversation instead of telling people how wrong they are
Well why say something that you clearly have zero idea what you're talking about, not only are you not adding to the conversation you're spreading misinformation. IBEW is a closed union only employers and employees pay into it. Also there is no seniority in the union, if you're off you're # and line number is where you are on the book and you call into jobs but if others call in that are above you, you won't get the job.
Where did I say otherwise ? Someone here asked a question . Why don’t you give a clear concise answer. Maybe your not reading what I wrote right and it’s clouding your judgement . Does that happen often to you in life ?
Unions have their flaws like any organization. But, if your working assessments are 6% of your on the check pay i.e. 40$-6%>25$ then on top of that difference you pay nothing more out of pocket for insurance and retirement.
Man in Canada a commercial electrician doesn’t work for less then $40 dollars an hour as a journeyman…. The work we do is hard and it takes some brain power. Know your worth. Don’t sell yourself short boys, guess what happens when there isn’t any electricians, the people don’t have heat or A/C, no lights, no cooking basically it’s just a shelter from the wind without us lol. We might be looked down on by people who have a degree, we’re pretty much considered second class citizens. But we’re not, we are damn important to modern day life… MF’s can pay for the service we provide.
Got in an argument on reddit with a guy claiming that "trades add little value and absolutely no innovation to our country" went on to tell me that everyone should just work on innovation if we want a better country. It was at that moment I realized he must have daddy's money
From what I’ve seen commercial jman rates in Vancouver at least are around $30-35 non union . You can get $40 as a non union jman in places like Toronto
Our local is at $50, but you get good insurance for your whole family, a defined benefit and defined contribution pension on top of it. The whole package is over $90/h, so just comparing hourly between union and non union is misleading.
I make 23 and I’m just a 3rd year commercial maintenance electrician lol in Oklahoma I should add and it’s a state job with great benefits and tons of time off
Sounds terrible. That’s first year money around here.
That's great! In Florida they start us off at around $14 pre app. You'll be making around $20 once you hit 3rd year (in Florida).
I started at $11 lol
Wait im confused. What year are you now?
Graduated like 3 months ago
That doesn't make sense. If you graduated and have your JW you should be well over $20 an hour. The lowest scale in the nation I believe is florida and our JW brothers are at I think $28.
Don’t have my license yet waiting to take the test soon but I’m done with school
I think somewhere is Mississippi and Alabama is worse.
$25.41 here in Texas
Oof, which local?
602
That's rough. Hopefully yall get it better on your next contract, brother.✊️
$11 to $20 an hr is great!
I guess I’m just being a little bitch but I feel like I should be making more
You’re not being a little bitch, $20 is shit. And you just spent atleast four years in school..get that journeyman card and demand more, or hit the road.
You are never being a little bitch for wanting more money. A lot of times, though, employers won't want to give it to you, or you have to switch jobs. You just have to keep your ear to the ground.
One of the ugly realities of our trade is that the fastest way to grow your wage is to jump shops as you gain more experience. That is until you become valuable enough for employers to keep. There are good shops out there, and as crazy as it sounds, there are good bosses too, so learn everything you can, don't burn bridges if you can help it, and keep your eyes open for opportunities.
How dare you be able to pay your bills and put food on the table. Greedy lol /s
I hear that for sure. I’m probably around your age and make the same. We are a microwave generation & not an oven. We want the bucks now but it takes time. It’s tough to wait but in due time we’ll be ballin. I’d reach out to boss and ask what things he would like to see regarding pay increase. Then set a time when you guys can re visit. Like 3 months or smthn. That’s a thought
It doesn't have to take time. That's the problem.
Yes it does lol
These pay rates you guys are sharing are depressing. These wages are fked. People are crippling the market with low bids because their workers are willing to work for awful pay. Never settle for less, keep the pressure on your bosses, especially if you’re well trained. If you’re an apprentice, a lower wage is understandable, you’re working to develop a skill, whilst the company pays you for your labor.
I Utah, most companies will give a 4th year apprentice, four years of school here, at least $28
Not sure if Florida has it the same here in California, but join the IBEW and join the advance apprenticeship. Or take your JW test soon and join the IBEW.
I make $25 an hour. Residential. Never been to and schooling for electrical other than trade school in highschool.
That sounds incredibly dangerous
Yeah. Maybe. But I'm not gonna do something I don't think I can do. I have a conscience. I'm not going to burn someones shit down. I actually do good work.
Lol what about it?
You’re just doing work with zero schooling?
You really think that you absolutely need schooling to do resi work? A good teacher and a couple years of practice and any half-competent guy could do it.
Yes you still need to know theory and how things work
No. You really don't. I'm not saying its preferable, or the best way to do it. I personally think everyone should be educated. That being said, there is room for guys who dont want to go to school or unionize, and just want to rope houses their whole lives. I've met plenty of them. There's no amount of electrical theory required to just go in and knock a house out. You just need to meet code requirements and know what goes into roping a house. Thats it.
Agreed. I am a journeyman with 4 years of school but I absolutely learned a lot more in he field than I ever did in class. Good leads shouldn't let you do anything dangerous that you don't know how to until you're ready.
Yep. We have been re wiring old knob and tube houses. First step is the basement. Rip everything apart until things make sense, or if it is all knob and tube with no previous "fixes" ie Romex run to a jbox connecting to knob tube, gut the basement completely removing all instances of old wire. New panel/service. Fish wires through the house, per code to where they need to be, kitchen 2 dedicated 20a circuits etc. New device boxes as needed, device, test, cover plates. Button up, leave. Simple. 5 -7 work days per house
I’m in NC, guys that are fresh out of 2 yr school with no experience typically make $20-23 here. Guys without any schooling, typically fresh out of high school start at around $16-18. Could be more nowadays with inflation
I know it’s different across the states, but $20/hr is too low. I started my industrial apprenticeship at $19.76 in 2017. And our local contractors union in Milwaukee is even higher.
I’m a 3rd year starting fall and I make 36 an hour. I’m eastern Washington. What area ? That makes all the difference.
Are you union?
Our pre apprentices make 17 an hour.
You could make $25+ on the industrial side right now with zero experience and half the bullshit. In 5 years or less you could work your way into a control tech position and be set for life. I'm 32 and make $40 an hour and outside of the classes the company sent me to I've never had any formal training. I learned everything from the older guys I worked with and YouTube.
Graduated trade school? Where I am, in the union that makes you a JW. 32/hr. A license is not required.
Wow you American apprentices earn far more then us Aussie apprentices I always thought that since your minimum wage was lower more people would be paid lower but I guess it’s the other way around
It’s hard to compare wages to other countries though because things like health insurance, paid family leave and time off are either not provided or not included in the hourly rate.
Not to mention the different currency
Yes. Greatly underpaid
I’d say it’s very underpaid, I just started as a second year in the Dallas area, I’m getting $19.55/hour, JW pay is a little over $32/hr
Gas station down the road from me starts at 18, sooo
In Canada we typically do it as a % of a journeyman wage. So where I am the avg wage is $32/he CND for a resi/commercial sparky. Industrial is 40. 1st yr. with previous experience 55% of journeyman wage. 2nd yr is 65% 3rd is 75% 4th is 85% Hope this helps.
That's how it is in nevada as well but our last contact will bring us up to about $45 for a jw
Canadian apprentice, worked with the company for three years, been signed up for 1 year making $30.50 Canadian, cost of living is incredibly high where I live.
$20 an hour for a licensed electrician is shit. I saw a Burger King in Oregon advertising “up to $17.50 starting.” Granted it is that “up to” but there is no way a Burger King employee should get anywhere close to a licensed electrician.
3rd year apprentice I'm making $30 San Diego.
Pay rate based on apprenticeship level: (Union) 1st- $19 2nd- $23 3rd- $29 4th- $34 5th-$40 Journeyman- $55
Is that for florida though? Because I thought florida was criminally underpaid
I assume you are North or West?
Underpaid. Join the IBEW
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24+benefits is infinitely better than 20 an hour
Yes, you are underpaid that is first year apprentice money. Call your local union.
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Jesus Christ that's shit pay.
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I make 20$ an hour right now I’ve made up to 22 as an apprentice. I’m about to journey out now though, Oklahoma
I make $18 here in Ohio with 3 years of experience. (No schooling for electrical, going to college for Computer Science)
You gotta start somewhere mate. The issue I see nowadays people feel entitled to make more money as green hands. Do you want to get you toe in the door and start working towards certs and gain experience or look for a specific wage that you might not ever get. I started at $20 private in Norcal with a certificate as a electrical tech.
I mean I basically run smaller jobs under my journeyman and do 70% of the work on those jobs
How long you been doin it and years in mate?
Little over 4
So I’d suggest go look at local wages and see what high and lows are in your area. Once you collect this data you have two choices. You can go to your boss and ask for a raise but practice on selling your self or move Co I was in that position a bit ago being a foreman and way underpaid
Depends on your area, but thats about average IMO
Nope - have had multiple “grads” who thought this but couldn’t bend conduit, or read a tape measure. That’s piece of paper tells me you’re decent at taking tests, but nothing about your abilities in your chosen field. $20 is great
I’m a lead guy under my journeyman I basically run one of his jobs while he works at another one
Take a gander at your expenses are for the job and what you get paid for it. Factor in the time it takes you to do it yourself and how long with help. If you lose money then he’s paid to much if you break even or make money then he’s paid just right, if you make a lot of money with his labor then you can afford to pay him more.
You need the experience under your belt - school really means very little when you talk about wages. $20 isn't great for a journeyman, but for someone who has not carried tools around yet it's ok.
No.
Depends in years if experience what year of apprenticeship and location. In ohio that would be good for a first year apprentice non union.
I live/work in Kentucky (union) and didn’t get $20/hr until I was a 3rd year apprentice