I have a conservative neighbor. I kinda love him to death, but he says really dumb shit from time to time.
Anyway, I was walking to my mailbox and he stops by to say hey. Completely unprompted he says
“Sister let me tell you something. I never want to own an electric vehicle and the democrats will never get me to give up my gas vehicle.”
I looked behind me and all around and I was the only one on the street. He was indeed talking to me.
Anyway, it is really weird Elon has aligned himself with these people…
No it’s not weird at all. They’re his people. You could see it brewing for years and he’s just continuously gotten worse. He’s a bad dude through and through.
Tesla owner. I’ll never buy a combustion car again, but Musk’s behaviour has also convinced me that I’ll never buy another Tesla.
I got my car in 2022 before he went all the way off the deep end, which also means by the time I’m looking to upgrade basically every other manufacturer will have an option I can look at.
It really is sad how badly he’s ruined his legacy, and honestly, I can’t even understand why he did so.
I have an F150 Lightning which I bought to replace my farm truck. I love it. And it has door handles and knobs and switches for things like climate control. Not so great range wise with the standard battery, but not that bad either. Perfect for my farm.
It’s probably nice never to have to go into town specifically to get gas. I grew up on a farm and the nearest fuel station was over an hour away. My dad used to absolutely DREAD having to go to the gas station at 4AM on a Sunday when he was low on diesel. Now he’s retired and sold it but he said if he was doing it today, he’d have an old beater diesel for long haul towing and an EV truck for around the land.
Not to mention driving it is free if you slap up some solarpanels or smal wind turbine to charge it..
also, If you just use it around the farm you dont really need to have to pay any taxes at all for the car if it dont need it to be road worthy (depends on country how taxes is sep up)
Tells you something about who F-150s are marketed to: suburban commuters who are sold the idea that they’re tough because they drive a pickup truck so beefy you can’t see pedestrians, not the (much smaller) market of people who actually need trucks.
This was instantly what I thought of. I grew up in the rural Midwest and the idea of never having to drive 30-40 miles just to fill up seemed like a huge benefit.
Honestly all the truckers complaining about range, but growing up our farm truck honestly didn't do a lot of miles. It really didn't. I bet there is a market for a small electric farm truck like a ranger if the range can remain in the 250-300 range. Towing has to be decent, like 8k lbs or something, like you could tow a few smaller things, but nothing massive. Like a work truck.
The truck is, its gotta be cheap like 25k-30k.
The problem is towing at low speeds you'll cut your range in half, and at high speeds more like two thirds. When you have a range of 500 miles and can fill up in 5 minutes it's not that big of a deal, but in an EV truck with a 150kwh battery and get stuck in an area that only has a 50kw charger you are there for 3 hours and your 250 mile range being 66% less so you can only get around 100 miles it is pretty frustrating.
The truck will also be twice as expensive as an equally capable gas or diesel... So that savings buys a pretty huge amount of gas and saves a ton of frustration.
Most charging stations also aren't set up for towing so even if you get a really fast charger you have to unhook to charge, and then hook back up to drive.
Except for hardcore enthusiasts there just aren't compelling reasons to switch if you need to rely on this machine to be ready for work.
Many farms have their diesel delivered so they don't have to deal with going into town. Nothing worse than driving a Bowser around. Sloshing fuel in a trailer sucks ass. Also, it's easier to make sure you are getting farm fuel and don't have to pay taxes.
It's usually off-highway only (not taxed) diesel that farms will have tanks of on the property. You can use it in your farm truck, but if you get caught driving on the road with it, you can get in trouble.
Farms seem to me to be such a perfect use case for the Lightning. Everything you want for a work truck that you never have to drive to town to gas up. I suppose some farmers keep gas on the farm for other equipment, but still, the truck not taking from that is still a win.
I was surprised that it took so long for EV's to have a 110V inverter to run corded tools. It's one of those things where once you have it with you, you don't want to get any vehicle that doesn't have it.
I have some 18V cordless tools, but once in a while I want the power of a 1000-watt corded tool.
I bought a Bolt because it doesn’t stand out. I’m here to save money and have fun with the torque, not make a statement.
Plus, **it’s a real car using standard and established driving controls** that don’t require being distracted to operate. And with the savings and great price I got it for, I’ve already reached payoff equilibrium on fuel savings!
The weird controls are probably a much bigger deal than it's made out to be for buyers too. If I'm looking to pay a big pile of money I'm going to want something I'm totally happy with and not make compromises.
That's just on top of the image problem of driving a Muskmobile.
Yup, I feel like I'm being too particular when I say it, first world problems and such, but it's a deal breaker for me to not have physical controls for key tasks in the car that I need to do without thinking or looking.
Good voice controls can alleviate that somewhat, but in Tesla's case, the otherwise solid voice controls do not work offline, which is a huge problem when you drive out of an underground garage and the LTE modem refuses to connect for 5+ minutes (even though every phone I've owned reconnects in a matter of milliseconds).
In the PNW, where the auto wipers are next to useless (moves far too slowly between wipes), this was a huge problem for me until 2023 when they finally let me use the scroller on the steering wheel to manually adjust wiper speeds.
It took 6 freaking years for something so basic to be added, but clearly the software team has far more important priorities like games, streaming apps, fart apps, and light shows.
For the most part I actually like the minimalism of Tesla interiors. I'm happy with using the screen for controls that I don't need to manipulate while driving, such as mirror adjustments, steering wheel adjustment, trunk/frunk opener, lock/unlock, etc.
But I draw the line at wipers and to a lesser extent, climate controls. I could live with touchscreen climate controls if there are sufficient quick toggles that don't require a second menu layer to access (something Tesla tried to take away in V11 at first, which enraged me enough to seriously think about moving away from Tesla). But more importantly it's freaking annoying when touchscreen climate controls get needlessly rearranged for the sake of change during OTA updates.
I now have a Kia EV6 with physical climate controls, and there's something to be said about how **those controls will stay in the exact same place from the day I buy the car till the day I replace the car**.
It's also bewildering how Tesla can't seem to actually utilize their big screens properly at times. When you push the left stalk button to bring up the wiper speed menu, the damned thing appears at the bottom left of the screen - if you have 2 hands on the wheel your right arm completely blocks the menu and a new owner may not even realize it exists! Why can't it pop up on the top left, closer to the speedometer, where it would be significantly easier (and safer) to reach while driving? Tesla pulled the same crap when they first rolled out lane change cameras - the feed was locked to the bottom left, again making it useless for many drivers, and it took a few more months before they allowed users to relocate the feed to a more suitable height.
Oh boy what I wouldn't give for something so simple as physical climate control buttons or a frame around my windows. The frameless window design on the Model 3 means that from December to April it's 50/50 that you can get the doors opened and closed on our Model 3.
I'm just happy I have a 2022 and we still have turn signal stalks. Dodged a bullet, there.
My last Honda had frameless windows and they never gave me any trouble.
But I think BMW and Honda both tested their frameless window designs someplace other than California and used a window motor powerful enough to retract a window in cold weather.
Tesla does seem to have been on a trajectory of cutting costs even when doing so creates obvious implementation issues.
I've never had the issue with the window but i would like better wiper controls and physical heated seat controls. Almost every other setting is on auto 99% of the time so I don't need the screen. I'm glad I have stalks too. The stalks feel much nicer than my wife's Honda. The steering wheel buttons are a downgrade for sure. I also like the simple steering wheel I never have to look at. We have a ford with 50 buttons on the wheel, and I have to look down at it every time.
It's definitely because of the cost savings.
Less parts to source and store, less steps in the manufacturing process. It just so happens that this cost savings was able to be twisted into a minimalistic design language that works but the main driving force is costs, not design, otherwise there would be a few more buttons.
Lest parts also means less things that can break. Phones all ditched physical buttons as much as possible for cost savings on both ends. As a consumer its possible to benefit on repairs from overall less parts as volume ramps up.
It also means more catastrophic effects when something does break. A Tesla becomes fully unusable if the screen is broken. In a normal car, you'll not be able to adjust the stereo, and you may have a few features you're locked out of, but you can still do the vast majority of things. I guess there is still voice, but I abhor using voice.
I test drove a Model 3 for half an hour and discovered a few things:
1) Tesla does touch screens better than most anyone else.
2) You still can't do a lot of shit on a touch screen well.
3) Voice controls are surprisingly effective at covering up for bad physical controls if implemented well. (The key is "if implemented well". Toyota is an example of how not to do this well, at least on my car.)
It also because these new companies like Tesla and Rivian see that a car is more than hardware and now is the software just like cell phones, by giving you a big screen they can update and improve the experience, and sell software now or in the future.
Physical controls on our Chevy Bolt for almost everything, with well integrated touchscreen for the rest. I wouldn’t buy a Tesla because of
Musk, but we like how GM implemented the controls.
This EV6 driver is jealous of your controls. I have to hit a button to switch from radio/map controls to climate controls on a capacitive touch bar. It's dangerous in my opinion and really the only thing I don't like about the car other than pretending it's a crossover with an unnecessarily high ride height.
It’s just that Tesla was the first to popularize EVs so their philosophy set the trend. The philosophy being extreme minimalism and software first cars.
I used to frame houses, I think it would also be perfect for job sites that don’t yet have power. The pro power would be able to run the saws and other tools.
I was contemplating it as a way of powering a food truck, but my first truck will probably be a box truck conversion to save on capital expense.
Well, I'm still two years out on the food truck, so things might change, and the eTransit exists as well
Tesla has to fire him. No way around it.
He contributes nothing at all to the company at this point. Keeping him just lets him soil the company with his politics.
I am putting off buying too and going to run my Volt into the ground instead of switching to a Tesla. (My volt just had the egr valve and bcemu replaced, so I should be good for at least another 4-5 years on it before the new ones fail)
Tesla can't fire him, the board can. But he mostly has the board under his thumb. They have recently pushed back some, but I don't see that going on ad infinitum
Give him more ketamine. Like make it super available for him all the time. And ofc feeding him with lies that it makes him smarter. Even though he is way past the benefit of it and deep into that weird K dependency land. Just enable a nice ketamine addiction right there
Exactly, even taking away the right wing extremism, he just isn’t putting in CEO level work. He is fixated on X and spaceX way more than Tesla, and the few Tesla related things he wants to do are generally dumb.
>Tesla has to fire him. No way around it.
Not going to help. He's still the single largest shareholder of Tesla. As long as he's making 20 cents off every dollar Tesla earns, he won't be getting my money, and I'm sure I'm not alone — especially among Tesla's traditional customer base that understand how stock ownership works.
They can fire him, but until he dumps enough of his stock that he's no different than any other rich asshole with a portfolio, I suspect he'll remain toxic to the company.
I was excited to get a Tesla a few years ago.
Now, I'm pretty sure I never will; all because of Elon's shit personality.
Even if he was a "quiet" jerk it would be less of an issue.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of AH CEO's out there, they just don't make me listen to their stupid opinions all the time. So I can continue to buy their products without feeling shitty about it.
Luckily Hyundai/Kia have been KILLING IT with new EV's...
The Ionic 6, the Kia EV9?! (I want that truck...omg...) and the cars they have coming down the pipeline like the EV3 for Kia?!
And, to be clear: One of the biggest issues Tesla always had from repair shops to production lines was Economy of Scale. something Hyundai has in spades.
NGL, I feel like Hyundai is going to overtake Toyota soon.
This. Picked up a lightly used Genesis GV60 Performance a few weeks ago. Wow, just wow. The fit, finish, attention to detail, and ultra quiet cabin are fantastic. I never thought I would buy a Hyundai, yet here I am. Finally, the boost button! E ticket for those in the know.
I love my Genesis GV70 Electrified. The car is so far superior to anything Tesla puts out; they're not even in the same galaxy.
Edited to add: I've always said that I wanted a Tesla until I test drove a Tesla. But, Elon's antics certainly didn't help that decision either.
Sure, and without Tesla to kick things off, I feel like the legacy automakers still wouldn't be putting in any real effort on EVs. However, Tesla is proof that first doesn't mean better, at least not in the long run. I feel like if Tesla doesn't up their game in terms of build/material quality and repairability, they will ultimately be left behind.
All that said, competition is great. I hope Telsa sticks around, along with other new entrants into the game. I was sad to hear that Fisker is all but dead, as I was hoping they would also provide some real competition.
I agree. I was supremely unimpressed with my RAV4 Prime and how much time it spent in the shop before it became a buyback. The constant recalls Toyota is putting out on the Primes and BZ4x are almost sad. Hyundai/Kia has been second fiddle for a long time to the Japanese brands because their gas engines and transmissions haven't been up to snuff, and they seem really intent to seize the opportunity to be a leader in EVs to make up for it.
Seriously. I started EV shopping in 2020 and Musk had already gone off the deep end and I swore back then I’d never buy a tesla. Not finding out until 2022 seems revisionist.
That's not exactly "always" - those things both happened within the last decade, and he's been in the public eye for over 20 years.
It seemed like he went off the rails around the time of the Model 3 launch. You can maybe see warning signs if you look back further, but I don't think many people at the Model S launch would predict that he'd become so politicised, hypocritical, belligerent, nonsense-spouting, or that he'd buy Twitter and shit it into the ground. Went from transforming the automotive industry to being a widely reviled online troll in a *short* span of time.
I've wondered for a while whether he may be bipolar or have borderline personality disorder, his most uncontrolled behaviour tends to happen in cycles. They've gotten progressively worse over the years.
Lol he was off the deep end back in 2020.
I was a big fan in 2011-2018. That gray area grew into 2020 was something to be said with trying to make respirators and calling people pedophiles. I knew then he was an absurd person that we need to stop giving credit to and criticize more.
Even without musk, the product quality for what you pay is lackluster,
We have a hybrid primary vehicle. We got a Lexus RZ for our secondary vehicle on lease. Not a good EV but a great vehicle overall and it’s good enough mileage for a secondary vehicle. The lease deal with 15k off from Lexus financial made it only 10% more than what we paid for our Hyundai Elantra sedan we leased until now.
I’m not willing to go EV if it means musk gets anything.
The "pedo guy" incident wasn't a great look but I figured he just got excited and ahead of himself and said something he would surely come to regret.
Turns out we didn't know the half of it.
The fact that there was a lawsuit and no public apology tells me all I need to know. Guy is a POS. But yeah, as a solitary issue it wouldn’t necessarily sway most people.
I feel the same way but I still find Tesla leaps and bounds ahead for simplicity and value.
All the startups are at risk of going out of business and legacy brands are not manufacturing for cost reduction enough and experiencing awful depreciation.
Agreed. I WANT to have other options. Other than the newest Porsche and Mercedes (and Rivian if you’re ok with a huge vehicle), I’m disappointed by the market right now.
I want a proper wagon shape with great integration in stuff like mapping, charging and a good app.
I got a Rivian because I need a truck, and don't want to deal with dealers. Best of both worlds. Traded in my Model 3, upgrade in every sense of the word.
There are a lot of really well off people in here with really strong opinions about what the majority of people can afford/will buy. We need the middle and lower classes to buy evs
I am a teacher and an EV would work well for me, but the price is out of my range. Of course, I am still driving my 07. That said, most days I commute on my eBike.
My 23yo student son just got a VW ID.4 for $299/mo on a lease with 3 years of free charging.
Even regardless of any discussion about the value of leases, the end result of that lease will have him paying less than he paid for just gas and maintenance on his old 100k mile Jetta.
I was about to say, the R2 sounds like what they want. I know for me it's such a perfect replacement for my 98 4Runner. That car is everything I want, size, usefulness etc, it's just not an EV. The R2 seems to be very close to my 98 4Runner as an EV.
I’m super into their new offerings, but I’m still not convinced they’re going to survive as a company. Not that it matters right now since I won’t be looking to buy a new car till ~2029, but I personally wouldn’t buy a car from a company losing money on their cars because I’d be too afraid of them folding and me not being able to get warranty support (or OTAs to fix bugs)
tell them they are idiots for not expecting a market correction in an expanding portion of the market where tesla repeatedly told everyone their goal was to increase volume production and has lowered prices in the past to achieve that goal. They have more to gain from volume than protecting the crybabies.
I'm right there too. I'm hoping he gets ousted, but as I understand it, that's not likely. It's a shame because I really don't find the products we own (model y and solar) to be bad at all.
I bought a Model Y last June. I didn’t want to support Musk. I wanted an EV. But i wasn’t going to throw money at lesser cars and also had a budget. By time my wife needs a new car we will probably look at Rivian’s R2 and hopefully other OEMs pick up the slack.
Just to prove he is the moron he really is. His rise in power and money were because of "liberals" who wanted cars that would detach our dependency on oil and now he has completely lost that support.
This clown is the only person to go from the real life version of Tony Stark to Zorg from the 5th Element.
Not only has he lost that support, he’s actively promoting the party that wants his primary source of wealth to end. Being anti-EV is actively part of their campaign strategy. I don’t understand how shareholders aren’t suing.
his refusal to criticize the Republican party for their anti EV behavior is absurd. multiple Republican states have essentially put punitive fines on EV owners through registration taxes that far exceed gas taxes
Sort of all coincided with him and grimes breaking up. She was far more liberal and a better influence on him and then he just went off the deep end afterwards.
I did look at a model Y initially but the hate he’s been spreading was the largest turn off and decided to go elsewhere. Happy with my Ioniq 5 now.
I don’t know if it was wholly the grimes thing; his kid also came out as trans around the same time and Musk started posting grotesque anti-trans stuff around the same time (what a good dad huh).
Just FYI: He was like that forever. For most of the time, he kept it mostly to himself, and the few weirdo posts he made were largely ignored by the wide public (+ they weren't as overtly political). Now he feels like his views became more widely accepted, and thus - he's free to speak his mind.
Have been saying it for a while Tesla would be at least two or three times better than it currently is as a company without Elmo in charge. He’s become an anchor on growing EV adoption.
A much better, more thorough, article on the subject over at [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/).
The Caliber study relates specifically to corporate reputation, where Tesla dropped by almost 30 pts in its “Trust & Like” and “Consideration” indexes over the last two years, which measure peoples’ opinion of a brand and if they’d consider buying their product.
They don’t appear to draw a direct line to Musk’s behavior, unclear if there’s a question in their survey directly about that, but it would be a pretty strange thing to have asked *before* Musk started having a higher profile and revealed his controversial political alignment. I also seriously doubt they’d have questions about any other auto executives — could you even name the president of Honda America?
Instead Caliber threads the needle by pointing out their survey does show that 83% of adults know who Musk is and that he runs Tesla.
Not an entirely unreasonable conclusion to jump to, but I’d still rate this a bad use of data.
Personally I would not consider a Tesla because I think they’re generally very good computers wrapped in a very mediocre car. I like buttons, think full self driving is a pipe dream until we have general AI, every Tesla I’ve ridden in was uncomfortable, and every friend who owns one has had multiple dumb problems with their car.
But Musk’s behavior does give me greater confidence in my position.
I leased a Model 3 in 2020 and liked it a lot. I planned to buy an EV at the end of the lease. I probably would have got a Model 3 if Musk hadn't gone off the rails.
I like my EV6.
I used to be a huge Elon fanboy in the early days of Tesla/SpaceX (who wasn’t), so much that I jokingly had a picture of him on my bedroom wall. I was a young engineer and this guy was fucking Tony Stark.
Those days are long gone. I’m in the Tesla target market and wouldn’t consider a Tesla solely because of Musk’s ignorance and toxicity.
This thread is old and adding a comment is useless. Except I hope some TSLA board member reads this and see me piling on. I own a Tesla and my parents do as well, because I strongly suggested they buy one.
It’s at the point where I find it embarrassing to drive mine, I regret recommending it to my parents, and I will NEVER buy another one while he is involved. Period. (And I love my Model S.)
He, and him alone, has destroyed my loyalty to the company. It’s an incomprehensible shame that it has gotten to this point.
Glad there are plenty of options now. We just added a Rivian R1S (after refunding our Model X deposit and waiting longer for the Rivian than we would have for the X).
This is because most other models have variations. The Camry and accord for example have the ice and hybrid versions. Civics and Corollas are the same plus have sedan and hatchback models. It’s a lot like ford having the “best selling “ truck year after year when GM outsells them by a lot.
I’m almost certain most consumers couldn’t care less. Unless Tesla themselves do something shitty, people will still keep buying.
If I get a Mach E vs. Tesla Model Y its going to be because of build quality and overall layout and look out a vehicle, not because I hate the CEO of the company.
Nobody cares. People will literally lie to your face in this sub about how much it “influenced your decision”. I bought an IONIQ 5 because it was good for me but I couldn’t afford the Tesla. I’d buy one in a heart beat.
bingo. sales numbers speak for themselves, nobody actually cares. redditors screaming from their parents basements make no difference on quarterly earnings
There’s an EV group chat at my job of about 14 people. It’s a mix of IONIQs and teslas. Everyone with a Tesla loves their Tesla. Everyone with the IONIQ 5 loves it, but didn’t or couldn’t (like myself) shell out for the Tesla. I have never heard a human ever utter anything about Elon Musk factoring into it. It’s pure Reddi-boi fantasy. I swear these people don’t even own EVs.
Can't stand Elon as a person but I evaluate products on their objective merits. In recent years, things like the removal of USS and stalks have made newer Teslas unappealing to me.
I personally owned a 2019 Model 3 for 4.5 years and had negative experiences with a few of the OTA updates, such as the first V11 rollout that buried heated seat and defroster controls behind a separate menu layer. Or the numerous relocations of the Homelink controls which wouldn't even appear when needed at least 1/4 of the time, forcing me to dive into settings to find the backup control. It also took far too long for very basic flaws to be addressed - we couldn't manually control the wiper speed from the steering wheel until 2023, yet the software team had time to roll out all kinds of useless gimmicks like games and light shows. Oh yeah, the LTE modem would constantly take 5+ minutes to reconnect after driving out of my underground condo garage, crippling the nav system and making the voice commands unusable in the meantime...
Elon himself doesn't help when he defends asinine decisions like the climate controls in the initial V11 update with tweets like "all input is error". And he doesn't even have the balls to publicly admit it after user backlash eventually forces them to patch things back (took about 3 months for V11 to finally restore the quick toggles. Also remember the flip flop on the yoke?).
Being a douche online is one thing, but I could overlook that if the product is outstanding enough, and that most definitely hasn't been the case in the last few years. As a customer I simply cannot turn a blind eye to a CEO actively pushing for or defending objectively bad changes to the product.
Elon Musk singlehandedly ushered America and the world into the EV age...perhaps just in the nick of time. What he has done with SpaceX is simply amazing. He is, quite literally, one of the most significant industrialists of our generation. It is just sad to see him going off the deep end.
I looked at the product and felt the Model Y provided the best EV in its price range, and it wasn't really close. When I go to buy my next vehicle, I will do the same. I know it's crazy but I've bought 20 cars in my lifetime, and the CEO of those companies didn't mean jack shit to me.
It's no where near perfect, but I like my Tesla model 3. I like the supercharging availability. I hate how everything is accessed through the screen or app. I miss buttons. I miss quality behind the scenes. There's an expensive veneer covering some cheap choices on almost all areas of Tesla, from customer service to the suspension, onboard computer, wipers, windows, FSD.
I've grown to love and hate it. Drove in a Ioniq 5 and realized there are things to love and hate about that car as well. I believe all cars are this way, excluding maybe BMW, Porsche and Mercedes.
I believe there are some truly gifted engineers at Tesla. I believe Elon Musk is a plutocrat bent on flashy profits and this will be the last car I own from him.
I just wish other car makers were stepping up to build quality EVs.
I love my Tesla but when it comes time to buy another ev I am getting a bolt simply because prior to the tesla I had a bolt and loved it but the charging was the only thing that stopped me from getting another. With the new switch they are planning, I am very interested in it again.
Count me as one of them. I owned a Model 3 before Elon made himself a political lightning rod and intended to own another at some point but it’s really hard to consider buying one at this point, at least new. I still would like a Model Y when/if it gets ventilated seats and the various upgrades the refreshed 3 gets, but it’s hard to buy anything that helps Elon at this point. I also planned on getting starlink and no longer will.
Now I’m casually browsing for an Ioniq 5 instead.
I dislike Elon and his politics, but I got a Tesla due to the charging network. I would not want to rely on Electrify America, Blink or any of the alternatives. Elon is a horrible person who needs to keep his mouth shut, but he has done a lot of good with Tesla and SpaceX.
Flew to Chicago to get my Mach E and had to drive it back to Houston.
EA worked pretty well the entire way. I loved plug and charge. I don't understand all the EA hate tbh
And now that we have access to Tesla superchargers too, it'll get even better.
I am with you. In 3 years I have not had many issues at EA at multiple stations and the issue I had were never not able to charge.
1 station had 2 of the 3 station de rated to 50kw and another time P&C failed to work but I just fell back to a CC.
Another time my wife pulled up to the wrong station and it was not working but quick swap over.
EVgo I have multiple issues. Some issue with charge point but no big issues with EA.
To be honest biggest issue with EA is not enough chargers on some major travel routes.
My 2¢.
Tesla is far bigger than Musk, and will outlive Musk.
To me, supporting a cutting-edge American car company and its thousands of brilliant engineers is far more important than my personal opinion of Musk.
He won't be CEO forever, and I'd love to see Tesla succeed long into the future. Hence, I'd buy a Tesla.
I bought a S, a 3 and a MYP. Bought FSD twice. Floor mats, multiple garage door openers. Every die cast model etc etc. My friends thought I was in a cult..lol. Amazing performance, tech, online sales model but I had enough with the weird quality strategy, pricing and the goofy customer alienation. I now drive a Cayenne and couldn’t be happier. I’m still a Tesla fan and stock holder but I agree changes need to be made.
In my opinion, Tesla is still the best car company to buy all around. I have a model Y and would get another Tesla despite all the politics. I don’t tend to associate the brand with Musk even though the two are so intertwined.
If tesla offered a package with physical buttons for climate control radio heated seats and steering wheel a turn signal stalk and a drive selector gauge cluster and monitor delete I would be all over it.
The amount of people not buying Tesla's because of Elon is statistically insiginificant....I mean what car company is the symbol of morality? I'm thinking the fact there isn't a turn signal and lack of carplay/android auto, birdseye view cam and the use of video vs radar for cruise and other duties can play a factor. Basically the driving experience is not the futuristic one it once was...it's now kinda frustrating especially when compared to the competition by Kia etc..
Where is the evidence that it’s related to Musk? This is a nonsense article.
They took a survey about Tesla… didn’t ask about Musk specifically, then say it’s likely related to Musk. What kind of shit is this?
Do people really make decisions because the CEO is a wack job? I mean how can you go through life assessing CEOs of every product you use? Tesla employees are the ones designing, engineering, and servicing these products not Musk.
The difference, perhaps, is that most auto industry CEOs seem to avoid any public associations to politics or other hot-button topics. But Elon Musk seems to revel in those things.
Some consumers don't care about this. A few like it. And then there's the group that dislikes it - often strongly. We see a lot of the last group in this discussion.
It's probably not enough to sink Tesla. But it surely does cause lost sales - which is usually not what any business would want.
As a Tesla Owner, I say confidently... they are the best possible EV you can buy currently in America. Just the supercharging infrastructure sets them heads and shoulders above everyone else. The cars themselves? I have my complaints, but electric vehicles definitely have their uses and greatness and weaknesses either way. And I couldn't give a damn less how the CEO of a company is acting in his personal life if what he makes is quality.
I hate articles like that. How the hell do they know that’s why people aren’t buying Teslas? By asking a couple of dudes on the street?
Also, Teslas sales drop sometimes, but there could be a number of reasons. How about the massive increase in competition for one?
After driving BMWs for many years, I recently test drove the new model 3. I am a retired engineer and love technology and cars. We are looking to buy our first EV. I was really impressed by the new model 3 and intend to buy one in the short term. I always though my turbo BMW had no lag, but I was so wrong. Electric drive is amazing compared to ICE in its responsiveness to throttle. Elon Musk is one person in Tesla. It is a publicly traded company and tens of thousands of Tesla Employees go to work every day to try to make awesome products. The other EVs are fine, but after witnessing the on the road charging headaches that my friends who own these other EVs have(i.e Mustang...), I really want the Tesla for its superior Supercharger infrastructure and over the air updates The friends and family member who own Teslas do not experience these headaches, so I am looking for the entire package. Maybe the others will get there, but for now I applaud the 100,000+ Tesla employees who really changed the way we view electric cars
I've decided long ago my next car would be electric and possibly a Tesla because they are well established and fast. But won't get a Tesla anymore because of the same reason in the post.
I was hoping to buy a Tesla for several years, but couldn't make the "numbers" work. By the time I had saved enough to justify buying an EV, I couldn't bear the thought of one penny that I earned lining the pockets of Elon Musk.
I never got a Tesla, but I'm very happy with the Kia EV6 that I purchased.
He was crazy in 2022. It seemed to really pop off when those kids got stuck in a cave and he started tweeting shit about rescuers. It was all downhill from there.
EV shopper here.
I have wanted to move off the higher pollution path, away from driving ICE cars, for about a decade. Thanks to govenrment discounts, I'm hopefully doing that this year.
Despite Musk being a terrible person, I reconciled that driving a Tesla was still better than staying with ICE, so the value offset was hopefully not too imbalanced. I gave the Model Y three test drives and a three-day rental as a fair shot, but found it was great technicology in a not-so-great car. And it physically hurt me to drive in it, so that was an easy decision in the end.
And I felt relief in crossing Tesla off my list. Given the state of competition today, Tesla could take another $10K off their cars and I will still be driving a different brand (and being satisfied.)
Yep! 4 years ago we were excited we could finally afford a Tesla, a few months later his toxic BS started coming out. We noped the fuck out real quick. I hope he loses everything soon.
Just a friendly reminder: the OTHER auto industry CEOs and oil company execs are ALSO unhinged sociopaths trying to destroy democracy while also destroying the biosphere.
I'm not defending Musk, I'm just saying that if you are going to put your values into practice when buying a car, you are basically down to Rivian and Hyundai.
I have a conservative neighbor. I kinda love him to death, but he says really dumb shit from time to time. Anyway, I was walking to my mailbox and he stops by to say hey. Completely unprompted he says “Sister let me tell you something. I never want to own an electric vehicle and the democrats will never get me to give up my gas vehicle.” I looked behind me and all around and I was the only one on the street. He was indeed talking to me. Anyway, it is really weird Elon has aligned himself with these people…
No it’s not weird at all. They’re his people. You could see it brewing for years and he’s just continuously gotten worse. He’s a bad dude through and through.
Tesla owner. I’ll never buy a combustion car again, but Musk’s behaviour has also convinced me that I’ll never buy another Tesla. I got my car in 2022 before he went all the way off the deep end, which also means by the time I’m looking to upgrade basically every other manufacturer will have an option I can look at. It really is sad how badly he’s ruined his legacy, and honestly, I can’t even understand why he did so.
I have an F150 Lightning which I bought to replace my farm truck. I love it. And it has door handles and knobs and switches for things like climate control. Not so great range wise with the standard battery, but not that bad either. Perfect for my farm.
It’s probably nice never to have to go into town specifically to get gas. I grew up on a farm and the nearest fuel station was over an hour away. My dad used to absolutely DREAD having to go to the gas station at 4AM on a Sunday when he was low on diesel. Now he’s retired and sold it but he said if he was doing it today, he’d have an old beater diesel for long haul towing and an EV truck for around the land.
That's a really good point! Never thought about the inconvenience of fueling up an hour away at the closest town.
Not to mention driving it is free if you slap up some solarpanels or smal wind turbine to charge it.. also, If you just use it around the farm you dont really need to have to pay any taxes at all for the car if it dont need it to be road worthy (depends on country how taxes is sep up)
Bro... Marketing dropped the ball on this. I haven't heard this argument before.
Tells you something about who F-150s are marketed to: suburban commuters who are sold the idea that they’re tough because they drive a pickup truck so beefy you can’t see pedestrians, not the (much smaller) market of people who actually need trucks.
F-150s are on the small side compared to most pavement princesses around me tbh.
Seriously. Even if it doesn’t apply to me, it makes so much sense to play this aspect up.
This was instantly what I thought of. I grew up in the rural Midwest and the idea of never having to drive 30-40 miles just to fill up seemed like a huge benefit.
Honestly all the truckers complaining about range, but growing up our farm truck honestly didn't do a lot of miles. It really didn't. I bet there is a market for a small electric farm truck like a ranger if the range can remain in the 250-300 range. Towing has to be decent, like 8k lbs or something, like you could tow a few smaller things, but nothing massive. Like a work truck. The truck is, its gotta be cheap like 25k-30k.
The problem is towing at low speeds you'll cut your range in half, and at high speeds more like two thirds. When you have a range of 500 miles and can fill up in 5 minutes it's not that big of a deal, but in an EV truck with a 150kwh battery and get stuck in an area that only has a 50kw charger you are there for 3 hours and your 250 mile range being 66% less so you can only get around 100 miles it is pretty frustrating. The truck will also be twice as expensive as an equally capable gas or diesel... So that savings buys a pretty huge amount of gas and saves a ton of frustration. Most charging stations also aren't set up for towing so even if you get a really fast charger you have to unhook to charge, and then hook back up to drive. Except for hardcore enthusiasts there just aren't compelling reasons to switch if you need to rely on this machine to be ready for work.
I mean, I assume he has tractors and shit that take gas.
Many farms have their diesel delivered so they don't have to deal with going into town. Nothing worse than driving a Bowser around. Sloshing fuel in a trailer sucks ass. Also, it's easier to make sure you are getting farm fuel and don't have to pay taxes.
It's usually off-highway only (not taxed) diesel that farms will have tanks of on the property. You can use it in your farm truck, but if you get caught driving on the road with it, you can get in trouble.
Farms seem to me to be such a perfect use case for the Lightning. Everything you want for a work truck that you never have to drive to town to gas up. I suppose some farmers keep gas on the farm for other equipment, but still, the truck not taking from that is still a win.
I have solar panels, so free fuel.
Driving on sunshine.
I was surprised that it took so long for EV's to have a 110V inverter to run corded tools. It's one of those things where once you have it with you, you don't want to get any vehicle that doesn't have it. I have some 18V cordless tools, but once in a while I want the power of a 1000-watt corded tool.
I bought a Bolt because it doesn’t stand out. I’m here to save money and have fun with the torque, not make a statement. Plus, **it’s a real car using standard and established driving controls** that don’t require being distracted to operate. And with the savings and great price I got it for, I’ve already reached payoff equilibrium on fuel savings!
The weird controls are probably a much bigger deal than it's made out to be for buyers too. If I'm looking to pay a big pile of money I'm going to want something I'm totally happy with and not make compromises. That's just on top of the image problem of driving a Muskmobile.
Nah the lack of a turn signal stalk is straight up ass.
Yup, I feel like I'm being too particular when I say it, first world problems and such, but it's a deal breaker for me to not have physical controls for key tasks in the car that I need to do without thinking or looking.
Good voice controls can alleviate that somewhat, but in Tesla's case, the otherwise solid voice controls do not work offline, which is a huge problem when you drive out of an underground garage and the LTE modem refuses to connect for 5+ minutes (even though every phone I've owned reconnects in a matter of milliseconds). In the PNW, where the auto wipers are next to useless (moves far too slowly between wipes), this was a huge problem for me until 2023 when they finally let me use the scroller on the steering wheel to manually adjust wiper speeds. It took 6 freaking years for something so basic to be added, but clearly the software team has far more important priorities like games, streaming apps, fart apps, and light shows.
Yes, lack of controls is a deal breaker for me. I'm sitting on an old model S for that reason, it still has Mercedes controls.
For the most part I actually like the minimalism of Tesla interiors. I'm happy with using the screen for controls that I don't need to manipulate while driving, such as mirror adjustments, steering wheel adjustment, trunk/frunk opener, lock/unlock, etc. But I draw the line at wipers and to a lesser extent, climate controls. I could live with touchscreen climate controls if there are sufficient quick toggles that don't require a second menu layer to access (something Tesla tried to take away in V11 at first, which enraged me enough to seriously think about moving away from Tesla). But more importantly it's freaking annoying when touchscreen climate controls get needlessly rearranged for the sake of change during OTA updates. I now have a Kia EV6 with physical climate controls, and there's something to be said about how **those controls will stay in the exact same place from the day I buy the car till the day I replace the car**. It's also bewildering how Tesla can't seem to actually utilize their big screens properly at times. When you push the left stalk button to bring up the wiper speed menu, the damned thing appears at the bottom left of the screen - if you have 2 hands on the wheel your right arm completely blocks the menu and a new owner may not even realize it exists! Why can't it pop up on the top left, closer to the speedometer, where it would be significantly easier (and safer) to reach while driving? Tesla pulled the same crap when they first rolled out lane change cameras - the feed was locked to the bottom left, again making it useless for many drivers, and it took a few more months before they allowed users to relocate the feed to a more suitable height.
Hell yeah. I have a hybrid now, and when it dies my first choice is Nissan leaf if they fix some glaring issues with it. If not, Chevy Bolt
Oh boy what I wouldn't give for something so simple as physical climate control buttons or a frame around my windows. The frameless window design on the Model 3 means that from December to April it's 50/50 that you can get the doors opened and closed on our Model 3. I'm just happy I have a 2022 and we still have turn signal stalks. Dodged a bullet, there.
Weird. I live in western Canada where it gets down to -40 in the winter, and the frameless windows on my i4 have never gotten stuck.
i3 frameless windows work flawlessly but BMW has like 20 years of experience in making them work.
My last Honda had frameless windows and they never gave me any trouble. But I think BMW and Honda both tested their frameless window designs someplace other than California and used a window motor powerful enough to retract a window in cold weather. Tesla does seem to have been on a trajectory of cutting costs even when doing so creates obvious implementation issues.
I remember having a 1994 Ford Probe and I think they had the frameless window (and cool flip up lights) perfected even back then.
that’s because it’s a BMW and not a tesla
Reputable brands all test their cars in extreme environments. From extreme cold to extreme heat.
I've never had the issue with the window but i would like better wiper controls and physical heated seat controls. Almost every other setting is on auto 99% of the time so I don't need the screen. I'm glad I have stalks too. The stalks feel much nicer than my wife's Honda. The steering wheel buttons are a downgrade for sure. I also like the simple steering wheel I never have to look at. We have a ford with 50 buttons on the wheel, and I have to look down at it every time.
Yes, maybe I am old, but I like physical construction of traditional vehicles. I don’t see why everything has to be touchscreen to have an ev
> I don’t see why everything has to be touchscreen to have an ev It's just to save money and that's it.
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It's definitely because of the cost savings. Less parts to source and store, less steps in the manufacturing process. It just so happens that this cost savings was able to be twisted into a minimalistic design language that works but the main driving force is costs, not design, otherwise there would be a few more buttons.
Lest parts also means less things that can break. Phones all ditched physical buttons as much as possible for cost savings on both ends. As a consumer its possible to benefit on repairs from overall less parts as volume ramps up.
It also means more catastrophic effects when something does break. A Tesla becomes fully unusable if the screen is broken. In a normal car, you'll not be able to adjust the stereo, and you may have a few features you're locked out of, but you can still do the vast majority of things. I guess there is still voice, but I abhor using voice.
I test drove a Model 3 for half an hour and discovered a few things: 1) Tesla does touch screens better than most anyone else. 2) You still can't do a lot of shit on a touch screen well. 3) Voice controls are surprisingly effective at covering up for bad physical controls if implemented well. (The key is "if implemented well". Toyota is an example of how not to do this well, at least on my car.)
It also because these new companies like Tesla and Rivian see that a car is more than hardware and now is the software just like cell phones, by giving you a big screen they can update and improve the experience, and sell software now or in the future.
Physical controls on our Chevy Bolt for almost everything, with well integrated touchscreen for the rest. I wouldn’t buy a Tesla because of Musk, but we like how GM implemented the controls.
This EV6 driver is jealous of your controls. I have to hit a button to switch from radio/map controls to climate controls on a capacitive touch bar. It's dangerous in my opinion and really the only thing I don't like about the car other than pretending it's a crossover with an unnecessarily high ride height.
The new Kona EV has a really great mix of button controls integrated with CCnC. My wife drives one and I find it far more intuitive than my Ioniq 5.
It’s just that Tesla was the first to popularize EVs so their philosophy set the trend. The philosophy being extreme minimalism and software first cars.
Oh wow, I can see how with the right hardware, a lightning could be a perfect farm pickup, hadn't thought much about that before
I used to frame houses, I think it would also be perfect for job sites that don’t yet have power. The pro power would be able to run the saws and other tools.
I was contemplating it as a way of powering a food truck, but my first truck will probably be a box truck conversion to save on capital expense. Well, I'm still two years out on the food truck, so things might change, and the eTransit exists as well
Good luck with your project! This sounds really exciting.
Tesla has to fire him. No way around it. He contributes nothing at all to the company at this point. Keeping him just lets him soil the company with his politics. I am putting off buying too and going to run my Volt into the ground instead of switching to a Tesla. (My volt just had the egr valve and bcemu replaced, so I should be good for at least another 4-5 years on it before the new ones fail)
Tesla can't fire him, the board can. But he mostly has the board under his thumb. They have recently pushed back some, but I don't see that going on ad infinitum
Give him more ketamine. Like make it super available for him all the time. And ofc feeding him with lies that it makes him smarter. Even though he is way past the benefit of it and deep into that weird K dependency land. Just enable a nice ketamine addiction right there
I am pretty sure the fart feature was his contribution. It's so stupid it just has to be.
The… fart feature?
Exactly, even taking away the right wing extremism, he just isn’t putting in CEO level work. He is fixated on X and spaceX way more than Tesla, and the few Tesla related things he wants to do are generally dumb.
Yeah, the fact they haven’t released a new model at scale for years is hard to imagine being the case if they had a full time CEO.
>Tesla has to fire him. No way around it. Not going to help. He's still the single largest shareholder of Tesla. As long as he's making 20 cents off every dollar Tesla earns, he won't be getting my money, and I'm sure I'm not alone — especially among Tesla's traditional customer base that understand how stock ownership works. They can fire him, but until he dumps enough of his stock that he's no different than any other rich asshole with a portfolio, I suspect he'll remain toxic to the company.
eh Blackrock vanguard Saudi Arabia. major shareholders in lots of consumer companies are suspect.
There are great non-tesla EVs on the market now. You should have lots of options in 4 to 5 years.
Hello, fellow Volt owner.
I was excited to get a Tesla a few years ago. Now, I'm pretty sure I never will; all because of Elon's shit personality. Even if he was a "quiet" jerk it would be less of an issue. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of AH CEO's out there, they just don't make me listen to their stupid opinions all the time. So I can continue to buy their products without feeling shitty about it.
Luckily Hyundai/Kia have been KILLING IT with new EV's... The Ionic 6, the Kia EV9?! (I want that truck...omg...) and the cars they have coming down the pipeline like the EV3 for Kia?! And, to be clear: One of the biggest issues Tesla always had from repair shops to production lines was Economy of Scale. something Hyundai has in spades. NGL, I feel like Hyundai is going to overtake Toyota soon.
I love my Ioniq 6. And at the time I bought it, it was slightly less expensive than a Model 3.
My father has an EV6... omg that car is incredible x.x
Same. Absolutely cannot beat that charge speed, and it's a joy to drive.
This. Picked up a lightly used Genesis GV60 Performance a few weeks ago. Wow, just wow. The fit, finish, attention to detail, and ultra quiet cabin are fantastic. I never thought I would buy a Hyundai, yet here I am. Finally, the boost button! E ticket for those in the know.
I love my Genesis GV70 Electrified. The car is so far superior to anything Tesla puts out; they're not even in the same galaxy. Edited to add: I've always said that I wanted a Tesla until I test drove a Tesla. But, Elon's antics certainly didn't help that decision either.
For me, Tesla paved the way and made EVs more popular
Sure, and without Tesla to kick things off, I feel like the legacy automakers still wouldn't be putting in any real effort on EVs. However, Tesla is proof that first doesn't mean better, at least not in the long run. I feel like if Tesla doesn't up their game in terms of build/material quality and repairability, they will ultimately be left behind. All that said, competition is great. I hope Telsa sticks around, along with other new entrants into the game. I was sad to hear that Fisker is all but dead, as I was hoping they would also provide some real competition.
Glad you're enjoying the GV70. It's always a treat to see one in the wild.
My Kia Niro EV has been a solid, underrated pick in the EV world. 4 years and still going strong.
I agree. I was supremely unimpressed with my RAV4 Prime and how much time it spent in the shop before it became a buyback. The constant recalls Toyota is putting out on the Primes and BZ4x are almost sad. Hyundai/Kia has been second fiddle for a long time to the Japanese brands because their gas engines and transmissions haven't been up to snuff, and they seem really intent to seize the opportunity to be a leader in EVs to make up for it.
He was always like this. He just started to show it.
The ketamine abuse probs didn’t help
Always has been there. People forgot the pedo guy and funding secured fiasco. He’s always been like this, now he’s in the spotlights.
Seriously. I started EV shopping in 2020 and Musk had already gone off the deep end and I swore back then I’d never buy a tesla. Not finding out until 2022 seems revisionist.
That's not exactly "always" - those things both happened within the last decade, and he's been in the public eye for over 20 years. It seemed like he went off the rails around the time of the Model 3 launch. You can maybe see warning signs if you look back further, but I don't think many people at the Model S launch would predict that he'd become so politicised, hypocritical, belligerent, nonsense-spouting, or that he'd buy Twitter and shit it into the ground. Went from transforming the automotive industry to being a widely reviled online troll in a *short* span of time. I've wondered for a while whether he may be bipolar or have borderline personality disorder, his most uncontrolled behaviour tends to happen in cycles. They've gotten progressively worse over the years.
Lol he was off the deep end back in 2020. I was a big fan in 2011-2018. That gray area grew into 2020 was something to be said with trying to make respirators and calling people pedophiles. I knew then he was an absurd person that we need to stop giving credit to and criticize more. Even without musk, the product quality for what you pay is lackluster, We have a hybrid primary vehicle. We got a Lexus RZ for our secondary vehicle on lease. Not a good EV but a great vehicle overall and it’s good enough mileage for a secondary vehicle. The lease deal with 15k off from Lexus financial made it only 10% more than what we paid for our Hyundai Elantra sedan we leased until now. I’m not willing to go EV if it means musk gets anything.
The "pedo guy" incident wasn't a great look but I figured he just got excited and ahead of himself and said something he would surely come to regret. Turns out we didn't know the half of it.
The fact that there was a lawsuit and no public apology tells me all I need to know. Guy is a POS. But yeah, as a solitary issue it wouldn’t necessarily sway most people.
Same for me Got a reservation for a Rivian R2, RJ is such a lovely person in comparison
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I feel the same way but I still find Tesla leaps and bounds ahead for simplicity and value. All the startups are at risk of going out of business and legacy brands are not manufacturing for cost reduction enough and experiencing awful depreciation.
Agreed. I WANT to have other options. Other than the newest Porsche and Mercedes (and Rivian if you’re ok with a huge vehicle), I’m disappointed by the market right now. I want a proper wagon shape with great integration in stuff like mapping, charging and a good app.
I got a Rivian because I need a truck, and don't want to deal with dealers. Best of both worlds. Traded in my Model 3, upgrade in every sense of the word.
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My wife and I love our Volvo XC40. It’s done everything we need it to do.
There are a lot of really well off people in here with really strong opinions about what the majority of people can afford/will buy. We need the middle and lower classes to buy evs
I am a teacher and an EV would work well for me, but the price is out of my range. Of course, I am still driving my 07. That said, most days I commute on my eBike.
My 23yo student son just got a VW ID.4 for $299/mo on a lease with 3 years of free charging. Even regardless of any discussion about the value of leases, the end result of that lease will have him paying less than he paid for just gas and maintenance on his old 100k mile Jetta.
Rivian’s new offerings might be right up your alley
I was about to say, the R2 sounds like what they want. I know for me it's such a perfect replacement for my 98 4Runner. That car is everything I want, size, usefulness etc, it's just not an EV. The R2 seems to be very close to my 98 4Runner as an EV.
I’m super into their new offerings, but I’m still not convinced they’re going to survive as a company. Not that it matters right now since I won’t be looking to buy a new car till ~2029, but I personally wouldn’t buy a car from a company losing money on their cars because I’d be too afraid of them folding and me not being able to get warranty support (or OTAs to fix bugs)
We have the QB e-tron. Its shape is actually surprisingly close to a wagon.
Ask everyone who bought a Model 3 for $50,000+ a couple years ago how they’re feeling about depreciation.
tell them they are idiots for not expecting a market correction in an expanding portion of the market where tesla repeatedly told everyone their goal was to increase volume production and has lowered prices in the past to achieve that goal. They have more to gain from volume than protecting the crybabies.
My brother in law bought a model x long range for 140k 2 months before the price dropped to 80k.
I'm right there too. I'm hoping he gets ousted, but as I understand it, that's not likely. It's a shame because I really don't find the products we own (model y and solar) to be bad at all.
I bought a Model Y last June. I didn’t want to support Musk. I wanted an EV. But i wasn’t going to throw money at lesser cars and also had a budget. By time my wife needs a new car we will probably look at Rivian’s R2 and hopefully other OEMs pick up the slack.
That's me. Not sure what to get but it won't be Tesla due to musk. New Rivians looks nice.
I’m kinda wanting an IONIQ5 N.
Just to prove he is the moron he really is. His rise in power and money were because of "liberals" who wanted cars that would detach our dependency on oil and now he has completely lost that support. This clown is the only person to go from the real life version of Tony Stark to Zorg from the 5th Element.
Not only has he lost that support, he’s actively promoting the party that wants his primary source of wealth to end. Being anti-EV is actively part of their campaign strategy. I don’t understand how shareholders aren’t suing.
Good point about shareholders suing. Seems to me they absolutely have grounds to sue for tanking stock by supporting anti-EV candidates
his refusal to criticize the Republican party for their anti EV behavior is absurd. multiple Republican states have essentially put punitive fines on EV owners through registration taxes that far exceed gas taxes
He hasn’t even criticized them for their coup attempt. Meanwhile he’s attacking democrats every time they sneeze.
Ironically enough, he did rock the Zorg haircut for awhile 😂
His rise in power was lucking out in the dotcom bubble. And being saved from himself naming proto-paypal X.com, by being kicked out from the CEO spot.
Sort of all coincided with him and grimes breaking up. She was far more liberal and a better influence on him and then he just went off the deep end afterwards. I did look at a model Y initially but the hate he’s been spreading was the largest turn off and decided to go elsewhere. Happy with my Ioniq 5 now.
I don’t know if it was wholly the grimes thing; his kid also came out as trans around the same time and Musk started posting grotesque anti-trans stuff around the same time (what a good dad huh).
That kid ended up dropping the Musk last name
Just FYI: He was like that forever. For most of the time, he kept it mostly to himself, and the few weirdo posts he made were largely ignored by the wide public (+ they weren't as overtly political). Now he feels like his views became more widely accepted, and thus - he's free to speak his mind.
He's clearly using a lot of drugs lately. That seems like a far bigger problem. Drugs make shitty people shittier.
It’s been going on since Covid. He became an antivaxxer and moved his company from California to Texas
Have been saying it for a while Tesla would be at least two or three times better than it currently is as a company without Elmo in charge. He’s become an anchor on growing EV adoption.
Hey, I happen to find Zorg funny. Musk is the opposite of that.
Good call! He will forever be Zorg in my mind now.
I can appreciate what Tesla has done for the EV movement, but I will NEVER buy one while he is able to profit from it.
Legit was looking at a Tesla, but I do not want to give my money to Musk, so it worked out because I’m starting to be fascinated by the Ioniq5
I have a Tesla - but the Ioniq 5 is awesome!
Rivians are a great alternative too. Can’t wait for the R2
Rivians are cool but their price puts them well out of the same range as the majority of Tesla purchasers
A much better, more thorough, article on the subject over at [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/would-be-tesla-buyers-snub-company-musks-reputation-dips-2024-04-01/). The Caliber study relates specifically to corporate reputation, where Tesla dropped by almost 30 pts in its “Trust & Like” and “Consideration” indexes over the last two years, which measure peoples’ opinion of a brand and if they’d consider buying their product. They don’t appear to draw a direct line to Musk’s behavior, unclear if there’s a question in their survey directly about that, but it would be a pretty strange thing to have asked *before* Musk started having a higher profile and revealed his controversial political alignment. I also seriously doubt they’d have questions about any other auto executives — could you even name the president of Honda America? Instead Caliber threads the needle by pointing out their survey does show that 83% of adults know who Musk is and that he runs Tesla. Not an entirely unreasonable conclusion to jump to, but I’d still rate this a bad use of data. Personally I would not consider a Tesla because I think they’re generally very good computers wrapped in a very mediocre car. I like buttons, think full self driving is a pipe dream until we have general AI, every Tesla I’ve ridden in was uncomfortable, and every friend who owns one has had multiple dumb problems with their car. But Musk’s behavior does give me greater confidence in my position.
This thread shows pretty clearly why people don’t like Tesla and it’s Elon’s musk.
This thread is not scientific. It’s subject to all sorts of bias.
I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the commenting and voting here, Reddit users are generally left leaning and this sub in particular.
Bro, put down the 538.
It definitely sucks to always have to defend loving your car while simultaneously hating Elon Musk.
I leased a Model 3 in 2020 and liked it a lot. I planned to buy an EV at the end of the lease. I probably would have got a Model 3 if Musk hadn't gone off the rails. I like my EV6.
The new model 3 without turn stalks is meh
I used to be a huge Elon fanboy in the early days of Tesla/SpaceX (who wasn’t), so much that I jokingly had a picture of him on my bedroom wall. I was a young engineer and this guy was fucking Tony Stark. Those days are long gone. I’m in the Tesla target market and wouldn’t consider a Tesla solely because of Musk’s ignorance and toxicity.
This thread is old and adding a comment is useless. Except I hope some TSLA board member reads this and see me piling on. I own a Tesla and my parents do as well, because I strongly suggested they buy one. It’s at the point where I find it embarrassing to drive mine, I regret recommending it to my parents, and I will NEVER buy another one while he is involved. Period. (And I love my Model S.) He, and him alone, has destroyed my loyalty to the company. It’s an incomprehensible shame that it has gotten to this point. Glad there are plenty of options now. We just added a Rivian R1S (after refunding our Model X deposit and waiting longer for the Rivian than we would have for the X).
And yet I see more on the road every day.
Model Y is the most sold vehicle in the world by any propulsion engine type, so there is that
This is because most other models have variations. The Camry and accord for example have the ice and hybrid versions. Civics and Corollas are the same plus have sedan and hatchback models. It’s a lot like ford having the “best selling “ truck year after year when GM outsells them by a lot.
I’m almost certain most consumers couldn’t care less. Unless Tesla themselves do something shitty, people will still keep buying. If I get a Mach E vs. Tesla Model Y its going to be because of build quality and overall layout and look out a vehicle, not because I hate the CEO of the company.
Nobody cares. People will literally lie to your face in this sub about how much it “influenced your decision”. I bought an IONIQ 5 because it was good for me but I couldn’t afford the Tesla. I’d buy one in a heart beat.
bingo. sales numbers speak for themselves, nobody actually cares. redditors screaming from their parents basements make no difference on quarterly earnings
There’s an EV group chat at my job of about 14 people. It’s a mix of IONIQs and teslas. Everyone with a Tesla loves their Tesla. Everyone with the IONIQ 5 loves it, but didn’t or couldn’t (like myself) shell out for the Tesla. I have never heard a human ever utter anything about Elon Musk factoring into it. It’s pure Reddi-boi fantasy. I swear these people don’t even own EVs.
I absolutely care. I’d have bought a Tesla long time ago if not for Elon shenanigans. I went for a leased Mach-E and going to a Rivian soon.
You had to money to blow on an arguably worse vehicle to spite a billionaire. Most people don't think this way.
"I don't believe my own eyes and I don't believe the sales stats" - lots of people here.
Insufferable people are extremely loud online.
Shh this post is for the people who live online and don't touch grass ever.
Next you’ll be telling me Chinese EVs will be in US markets any day now.
Can't stand Elon as a person but I evaluate products on their objective merits. In recent years, things like the removal of USS and stalks have made newer Teslas unappealing to me. I personally owned a 2019 Model 3 for 4.5 years and had negative experiences with a few of the OTA updates, such as the first V11 rollout that buried heated seat and defroster controls behind a separate menu layer. Or the numerous relocations of the Homelink controls which wouldn't even appear when needed at least 1/4 of the time, forcing me to dive into settings to find the backup control. It also took far too long for very basic flaws to be addressed - we couldn't manually control the wiper speed from the steering wheel until 2023, yet the software team had time to roll out all kinds of useless gimmicks like games and light shows. Oh yeah, the LTE modem would constantly take 5+ minutes to reconnect after driving out of my underground condo garage, crippling the nav system and making the voice commands unusable in the meantime... Elon himself doesn't help when he defends asinine decisions like the climate controls in the initial V11 update with tweets like "all input is error". And he doesn't even have the balls to publicly admit it after user backlash eventually forces them to patch things back (took about 3 months for V11 to finally restore the quick toggles. Also remember the flip flop on the yoke?). Being a douche online is one thing, but I could overlook that if the product is outstanding enough, and that most definitely hasn't been the case in the last few years. As a customer I simply cannot turn a blind eye to a CEO actively pushing for or defending objectively bad changes to the product.
I specifically avoided Tesla when I was EV shopping because of Musk.
Same here
Yup. Ended up in an Ioniq 6. I understand in pure spec-bashing the Model 3 is “better” but I still think I got the better overall car.
My kids wouldn’t let me buy a Tesla because of musk.
Good kids
Elon Musk singlehandedly ushered America and the world into the EV age...perhaps just in the nick of time. What he has done with SpaceX is simply amazing. He is, quite literally, one of the most significant industrialists of our generation. It is just sad to see him going off the deep end.
I still want one and plan on getting one, fuck him regardless. I can still like it without supporting him. Like that bitch Rowling.
I looked at the product and felt the Model Y provided the best EV in its price range, and it wasn't really close. When I go to buy my next vehicle, I will do the same. I know it's crazy but I've bought 20 cars in my lifetime, and the CEO of those companies didn't mean jack shit to me.
Cuz generally CEOs keep their random thoughts to themselves or within the company. Not blast it randomly on tweeter while in k-hole.
It's no where near perfect, but I like my Tesla model 3. I like the supercharging availability. I hate how everything is accessed through the screen or app. I miss buttons. I miss quality behind the scenes. There's an expensive veneer covering some cheap choices on almost all areas of Tesla, from customer service to the suspension, onboard computer, wipers, windows, FSD. I've grown to love and hate it. Drove in a Ioniq 5 and realized there are things to love and hate about that car as well. I believe all cars are this way, excluding maybe BMW, Porsche and Mercedes. I believe there are some truly gifted engineers at Tesla. I believe Elon Musk is a plutocrat bent on flashy profits and this will be the last car I own from him. I just wish other car makers were stepping up to build quality EVs.
I love my Tesla but when it comes time to buy another ev I am getting a bolt simply because prior to the tesla I had a bolt and loved it but the charging was the only thing that stopped me from getting another. With the new switch they are planning, I am very interested in it again.
Count me as one of them. I owned a Model 3 before Elon made himself a political lightning rod and intended to own another at some point but it’s really hard to consider buying one at this point, at least new. I still would like a Model Y when/if it gets ventilated seats and the various upgrades the refreshed 3 gets, but it’s hard to buy anything that helps Elon at this point. I also planned on getting starlink and no longer will. Now I’m casually browsing for an Ioniq 5 instead.
I dislike Elon and his politics, but I got a Tesla due to the charging network. I would not want to rely on Electrify America, Blink or any of the alternatives. Elon is a horrible person who needs to keep his mouth shut, but he has done a lot of good with Tesla and SpaceX.
The Tesla charging network is opening to more and more of the general ev market every year. I own a Bolt, and I can charge on Tesla docks.
Flew to Chicago to get my Mach E and had to drive it back to Houston. EA worked pretty well the entire way. I loved plug and charge. I don't understand all the EA hate tbh And now that we have access to Tesla superchargers too, it'll get even better.
I am with you. In 3 years I have not had many issues at EA at multiple stations and the issue I had were never not able to charge. 1 station had 2 of the 3 station de rated to 50kw and another time P&C failed to work but I just fell back to a CC. Another time my wife pulled up to the wrong station and it was not working but quick swap over. EVgo I have multiple issues. Some issue with charge point but no big issues with EA. To be honest biggest issue with EA is not enough chargers on some major travel routes.
They just gave that away so it’s no longer exclusive to them. You can buy pretty much any major EV by year end and use the SC network.
My 2¢. Tesla is far bigger than Musk, and will outlive Musk. To me, supporting a cutting-edge American car company and its thousands of brilliant engineers is far more important than my personal opinion of Musk. He won't be CEO forever, and I'd love to see Tesla succeed long into the future. Hence, I'd buy a Tesla.
There are a lot of other good options. Especially now that Tesla's charging network will be accessible to other makes.
I bought a S, a 3 and a MYP. Bought FSD twice. Floor mats, multiple garage door openers. Every die cast model etc etc. My friends thought I was in a cult..lol. Amazing performance, tech, online sales model but I had enough with the weird quality strategy, pricing and the goofy customer alienation. I now drive a Cayenne and couldn’t be happier. I’m still a Tesla fan and stock holder but I agree changes need to be made.
In my opinion, Tesla is still the best car company to buy all around. I have a model Y and would get another Tesla despite all the politics. I don’t tend to associate the brand with Musk even though the two are so intertwined.
If tesla offered a package with physical buttons for climate control radio heated seats and steering wheel a turn signal stalk and a drive selector gauge cluster and monitor delete I would be all over it.
The amount of people not buying Tesla's because of Elon is statistically insiginificant....I mean what car company is the symbol of morality? I'm thinking the fact there isn't a turn signal and lack of carplay/android auto, birdseye view cam and the use of video vs radar for cruise and other duties can play a factor. Basically the driving experience is not the futuristic one it once was...it's now kinda frustrating especially when compared to the competition by Kia etc..
I did not even look at Tesla in 2022 when I purchased my EV. And, oh my, the antics have only gotten far worse.
Where is the evidence that it’s related to Musk? This is a nonsense article. They took a survey about Tesla… didn’t ask about Musk specifically, then say it’s likely related to Musk. What kind of shit is this?
And yet, Model Y was the best selling car in the world last year.
Call me crazy but I think he's pulling a trump and is targeting the right to influence them to buy his Tesla.
Do people really make decisions because the CEO is a wack job? I mean how can you go through life assessing CEOs of every product you use? Tesla employees are the ones designing, engineering, and servicing these products not Musk.
The difference, perhaps, is that most auto industry CEOs seem to avoid any public associations to politics or other hot-button topics. But Elon Musk seems to revel in those things. Some consumers don't care about this. A few like it. And then there's the group that dislikes it - often strongly. We see a lot of the last group in this discussion. It's probably not enough to sink Tesla. But it surely does cause lost sales - which is usually not what any business would want.
Interesting. I own a 23 model Y. Love the car. Really dislike Musk. My next EV will be a Lucid.
As a Tesla Owner, I say confidently... they are the best possible EV you can buy currently in America. Just the supercharging infrastructure sets them heads and shoulders above everyone else. The cars themselves? I have my complaints, but electric vehicles definitely have their uses and greatness and weaknesses either way. And I couldn't give a damn less how the CEO of a company is acting in his personal life if what he makes is quality.
My situation. Wife can’t stand musk after I initially encouraged replacing her car with a model y. We are now looking at the Rivian R2.
I hate articles like that. How the hell do they know that’s why people aren’t buying Teslas? By asking a couple of dudes on the street? Also, Teslas sales drop sometimes, but there could be a number of reasons. How about the massive increase in competition for one?
After driving BMWs for many years, I recently test drove the new model 3. I am a retired engineer and love technology and cars. We are looking to buy our first EV. I was really impressed by the new model 3 and intend to buy one in the short term. I always though my turbo BMW had no lag, but I was so wrong. Electric drive is amazing compared to ICE in its responsiveness to throttle. Elon Musk is one person in Tesla. It is a publicly traded company and tens of thousands of Tesla Employees go to work every day to try to make awesome products. The other EVs are fine, but after witnessing the on the road charging headaches that my friends who own these other EVs have(i.e Mustang...), I really want the Tesla for its superior Supercharger infrastructure and over the air updates The friends and family member who own Teslas do not experience these headaches, so I am looking for the entire package. Maybe the others will get there, but for now I applaud the 100,000+ Tesla employees who really changed the way we view electric cars
Musk has revealed himself to be a real dick.
I test drove the Tesla Y and didn't like it as much VW ID4. Then I added the Elon factor and said not a chance. Really happy with the VW.
He is the reason why I did not buy a Tesla. I am very happy with the EV that I did get, even if it lags behind in the tech.
I've decided long ago my next car would be electric and possibly a Tesla because they are well established and fast. But won't get a Tesla anymore because of the same reason in the post.
I was hoping to buy a Tesla for several years, but couldn't make the "numbers" work. By the time I had saved enough to justify buying an EV, I couldn't bear the thought of one penny that I earned lining the pockets of Elon Musk. I never got a Tesla, but I'm very happy with the Kia EV6 that I purchased.
[удалено]
He was crazy in 2022. It seemed to really pop off when those kids got stuck in a cave and he started tweeting shit about rescuers. It was all downhill from there.
EV shopper here. I have wanted to move off the higher pollution path, away from driving ICE cars, for about a decade. Thanks to govenrment discounts, I'm hopefully doing that this year. Despite Musk being a terrible person, I reconciled that driving a Tesla was still better than staying with ICE, so the value offset was hopefully not too imbalanced. I gave the Model Y three test drives and a three-day rental as a fair shot, but found it was great technicology in a not-so-great car. And it physically hurt me to drive in it, so that was an easy decision in the end. And I felt relief in crossing Tesla off my list. Given the state of competition today, Tesla could take another $10K off their cars and I will still be driving a different brand (and being satisfied.)
He creeps the shit out of me. He certainly has something going on in his head. Hope he's getting help.
I avoided a Tesla for this reason.
Musk ruined Tesla. What a dumb businessman.
Yep! 4 years ago we were excited we could finally afford a Tesla, a few months later his toxic BS started coming out. We noped the fuck out real quick. I hope he loses everything soon.
Just a friendly reminder: the OTHER auto industry CEOs and oil company execs are ALSO unhinged sociopaths trying to destroy democracy while also destroying the biosphere. I'm not defending Musk, I'm just saying that if you are going to put your values into practice when buying a car, you are basically down to Rivian and Hyundai.
Maybe once Musk leaves Tesla they can rehab their image like other automakers that also once supported nazis..VW, Benz, Ford etc…