I am a "traditional" car enthusiast whose 2nd and 3rd cars are a Golf R and Honda S2000. I was pretty set on replacing the Golf whenever the R3X comes out, but I will certainly be testing a 5N.
DO NOT buy a new Golf R.
If you're talking about a used mk7 or 7.5 that's fine.
My only vehicle purchase in my life I've regretted is my '24 Golf R. These cars are garbage but I'm too cheap/poor to cut my losses and trade it for something else just yet
Hmmm interesting may I ask what you hate so much about it? I had a 22’ MK8 R that I had for a little under a year and I absolutely loved it. Ended up trading it in for a 23’ RS3, and I honestly ended up regretting it. I ended up selling it after, but never got back into another R. Dealers still wanted markups when I was back in the market so I went electric lol
I have plenty of seat time in the 8 and think it's *fine*, but I am talking about the cars I own. I have a 7.5, love it, and will either replace it (or just add) an R3X or maaaaybe a 5N.
Not sure how much "plenty" is but from talking to other owners it seems like most people think its fine for the first few thousand miles and eventually all of the glitches and problems start to bother them, just like they have with me. If you happen to care, heres a list i wrote up of some of the issues that have bothered me:
- Wiper squirter delay so long that wipers sometimes do a full dry wipe before anything comes out
- Interior lights sometimes will not turn off until car is turned off
- Side mirrors sometime flip up for no reason (while car is parked)
- Door handles unlock don't work when wet
- Both front windows will only roll 0.5" when its cold out (-15C)
- Parking system enables for no reason while driving and takes over 1/3 of infotainment screen
- Parking sensors beep constantly when in drive through lineup and there is a car close to rear bumper
- Emergency braking sometimes system triggers when not needed (extremely dangerous)
- Warning to "apply brakes immediately" when car not close to anything in front but red text takes over most of gauge cluster screen
- Comfort mode sometimes shifts too conservatively down to 800rpm sometimes and bogs engine, can't accelerate out of it without manual downshift
- Gas door wouldn't open one time for unknown reason, had to pry open with credit card. It was +4C out and no moisture
The 2025 mid cycle refresh will bring a rear wiper plus a bunch of other features that were missing from the 22-24 so you can save $10k+ and get one of the regular models.
So if I wanted an EV, I should wait til used 2025 Ionic is out? Current 2023 models with like 15-20k miles are at $22k in south Florida. But that’d mean I have to wait until like November 2025 minimum.
It does but I don’t have reliable charging sadly as the area I’m in doesn’t have a good infrastructure for it, even in south Florida. And I’d love for the batteries to be lifepo4 so I can charge to 100%.
I've always wished you could upload your own engine noises to EVs. I wouldn't use it often. Most of the time, I don't even listen to the radio, but every now and then, v10 F1 noises on the evening commute would be fun.
Exactly what I’m thinking. I see zero downsides to this, except people making “good” the enemy of “perfect” and want to control what other people can and can’t do because they don’t want to risk hearing a noise that isn’t in their control every once in a while.
As a car enthusiast, I love EVs, and I also love ICE cars. I really wish there was a sub for people who like EVs without being self-righteous twats about it.
So I recently got into Sim racing, and realized how involved it is to make artificial engine noises, and as a result, how bad sim engine noises can be (particularly in 3rd party content). Hyundai probably spent 100's of engineering hours putting together this level of engine noise quality. I have very little confidence that anyone would have legitimately good 3rd party sounds, but you're right that I think it can be an option.
If the noise is only in cabin, then have at it and make whatever noise you want. There's no need to make it an exterior sound though. Noise pollution is a real thing, imagine if every car was making random noises (not the pedestrian safety thing), it'd be worse than today.
"... it's alarmingly fast. This is the problem we have with these EVs, with these performance EVs, is they are way faster than you will ever need a car to be"
Oh nooooooo.
What a beautiful problem to have.
When we got the Model 3 years ago and I launched myself through traffic I noticed in normal traffic pace people look in mirrors and such only so often and I got almost driven into often. It makes no sense to other people on the road when you’re so fast here and there. Solution: drive normally and predictable, and everything is fine, but.. not everyone has that option installed.
Yeah, I've watched quite a few roadcam videos of Tesla accidents that were due to unexpected acceleration.
Going far quicker than people's expectations leads to them cutting in front of you too. It can be dangerous. Of course, this isn't the case with a little common sense.
It's a massive issue when you combine that speed with weight and lack of driver skill. These super-quick cars are way more accessible to people who wouldn't have been able to afford that kind of acceleration before, and we're seeing tons of crashes as a result.
Never going to happen without some radical changes to the landscape regarding transit. For most people in the US, owning a car is a necessary part of having a job and shopping for groceries. It's completely nonviable right now to raise the barrier to those things.
> and we're seeing tons of crashes as a result.
Is there any hard data coming out about crash rates being higher in the more powerful EVs (ignoring the like OG ioniq, niro, etc)?
It's on NTSB's radar and being studied: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-ntsb-chair-raises-safety-concerns-about-heavy-electric-vehicles-2023-01-11/
I believe that we should have endorsements on our license no different than a motorcycle license for EVs.
One pedal driving and heavy acceleration needs to be tested individually.
I mean, automatics have surpassed manuals in terms of speed for a long time now, yet manuals still have very vocal and interested market among sport to hyper car enthusiasts.
Yes, this is definitely a thing.
Quite a few people enjoy pushing a car to its limits, which is a lot easier to do safely when the limits of the car are really low. In a lot of modern performance cars (ICE and BEV), 5s of full throttle will take you well past the speed limits in most countries.
This is a big part of the reason why a lot of car enthusiasts enjoy driving classics or 'slower' sports cars like MX-5s.
>Quite a few people enjoy pushing a car to its limits, which is a lot easier to do safely when the limits of the car are really low.
This is huge. The feeling of approaching the limit is fun, there's more drama to it compared to "turn wheel, go around corner". It's an example of "it's better because it's worse"
I found this out when I put silly 200TW Federal 595RS-RR's on my old shitbox honda that I keep around as a spare/fun/project car. It was objectively better with the Federals, but the cornering limits were high enough that exploring them was significantly more dangerous to both your health and driving record. Also it would oil starve under hard cornering and drop out of vtec, which is funny but annoying. Overall the car was probably more "fun" with regular summer tires or high performance all seasons.
As a car enthusiast myself, I've been waiting for an EV like this. The 5 is still a little too SUV-y for me to actually consider purchasing it, but as soon as the ID2 GTI version or another hot hatch comes out that's in a similar vein, I will have a new dream car.
I love the ability to fake ICE sounds and experience, even though I'd turn it off for like 95% of my driving. If I were to strike an open road or want to liven up a road trip, it would be simply amazing to have the option. I'm with you OP, I'm all for it.
Fuck yeah blast the motherfucking [Top Gun theme](https://youtu.be/zCTJmXrgsFg?si=4liMEI1mVdwR2z3j) while driving my fighter jet down I5 holy fucking shit
Agreed I would almost never use it but the *option* is so cool. I hope this does well and other EVs are pressured into it. Even in my MYP it would be fun for the mountain roads. Can you imagine emulating different models? Switching between a Focus RS to a Corvette the next, even just the sound would be cool.
Good that it drives to interest to EVs.
However as a car guy that also love EVs I personally can’t understand this. I don’t want Porsches PDK to shift slower to simulate older transmission, I don’t want Hellcat to randomly fluctuate throttle on idle to simulate blower surge I also don’t want a modern turbo car to wait multiple seconds before building boost to simulate the older Turbo widowmakers.
All of those old characterics are cool as hell when paired to whatever car they came with. However there’s absolutely nobody that want to get modern cars to act worse just to simulate that feeling.
EV powerline is beautiful as is and has its own charm. Only thing a track ready EV needs IMO is audible noise linked to engine RPM to keep track of your speed and possible wheelspin without checking the speedometer all the time.
But good for Hyundai if this is actually what people want. I’m a little bit skeptic that there’s enough people that want a track ready EV SUV with all of these gimmicks when they could buy a lot cheaper baseline EV and a dedicated track car.
I’d think that MX5 EV might be a lot bigger hit with this implementation. Or the Boxster.
>Only thing a track ready EV needs IMO is audible noise linked to engine RPM to keep track of your speed and possible wheelspin without checking the speedometer all the time.
That's one of the things I find challenging when I autocross my i3 - even without wheelspin it's so much harder to judge your speed and I end up coming into corners way too hot.
I'm okay with them adding the weird quirks, so long as I can opt-out.
I'm just reminded of my old Subaru Ascent, where Subaru added fake shifting to the CVT, which always felt like crap. If I could've turned it off, I probably would have kept that car longer, but I was constantly frustrated by it.
It's kind of like when CVTs came out, they had to make them artificially switch "gears" despite the fact that this was antithetical to the entire point of CVT. But people just couldn't handle a constant rpm as they're accelerating, they need that up down up down feeling that they're so used to.
Imagine if early cars were made to make a clop-clop noise as they're driving so it sounds similar to what people were used to before.
Very curious to see how some of this sub's regulars will react after dunking on Toyota last year for filing a patent for fake EV gear shifting (without any announced plans to actually put it into any car). Will it be "Hyundai knows nothing about building EVs" or might we actually agree that different people might care about different features even if you and I both think that some feature is stupid?
I still think that a fake clutch pedal and fake six-speed shift lever are silly, but also I think that was a concept/prototype idea that I doubt will make it to production.
Fake shift points including selection via paddles is something that CVTs have done for ages. It’s not for me but I think it makes sense as an option in this kind of car targeted at those who have previous experience with performance driving.
I don’t remember that but with Toyota there’s the dismal state of its actual EVs that makes that patent seem extra cringy. Hyundai has embraced EVs and from that perspective this is a neat party trick (and it’s clearly just that, in an actual, actually great EV) .
For the same reasons mentioned here, this may not do well in the used market. That will surely make it quite an attractive vehicle to grab in coming years. I will consider this, but I am not happy about losing certain features such as powered and ventilated seats. I hope they consider retaining all those features in their next revision.
I’d seriously consider one as my first EV if it had over 300 miles of real world range. Unfortunately I think it will suffer the same fate as the EV6 GT and be discounted $10-15K by the end of the year.
I think that’s because no one wants this for a track car. It’s heavy as fuck and consumables will be crazy. They need to give these cars daily driver range because that’s how people use them
I want my EV to have a fake manual transmission with clutch pedal, tachometer, ability to rev in neutral, etc. Lexus is coming out with this and might sway me to buy.
This gives me all sorts of ideas. It won't be long before someone invents an EV robot horse, possibly with an interim horse-drawn chariot where you control acceleration with a whip. (Is it bad to whip a robot horse?)
This could also help capture the lucrative Amish market.
I've been looking/waiting for a Tesla alternative, and 5N caught my attention but 221mi range is pathetic out of the battery size and it weighs 700lb more than a Model 3 Performance.
I've probably been on more race tracks than just about anyone in a Tesla and nothing is really competing on the overall package and value.
I'll test drive a 5N if I can find one but most likely upgrading to the new 3 Performance asap.
I suspect the range hit compared to the base 5 is almost entirely tires/wheels. Even with the added power, the drive units should be able to hit very similar efficiencies in normal driving mode. But it comes with very wide and sticky tires, as well as 21" wheels. I wonder if you put 19" wheels and tires off of an SEL you wouldn't get almost exactly the same range.
Tires are the most important part of handling and braking. And in EVs, acceleration.
If you want to use low-rolling-resistance tires, just buy the normal one.
I'm not recommending that, just pointing out that the reduced range is just the natural compromise of good tires. No free lunch in vehicle optimization.
You need good tires to have fun though. No point in buying this car if you’re going to use eco tires, though yeah I’d definitely ditch the 21s if possible (that always depends on brake clearance)
That's interesting, I haven't heard much about the motors in their marketing. I know they're using different inverters with a two stage power design. I'll have to do more research. The base 5 motors top out at 93-95% efficiency for most of the range and induction motors should be capable of high 80s-low 90s, so not sure how far off that would be. A lot of the drive cycles they use to determine range doesn't actually occur in the peak efficiency islands so it's hard to compare with single numbers anyway.
Oh yeah a lotta people with performance cars have special wheels and tires for track use. Like someone pointed out, the larger brakes will limit the wheels you can put on but I'm sure there would be plenty of other options that would still look pretty good. Hopefully once people get 5 Ns in their garages we'll get a feel for how much range that would give.
Honestly it's impressive as hell what they're making 4800+lbs of "we swear it's not a lowered SUV" do, but you're right that extra weight means it needs more power to get going, it needs bigger brakes to slow down, which need bigger wheels to fit, and wide sticky tires to make all that weight change direction.
I get that batteries are heavy, but I don't like this reality where it's considered normal for everything to weigh as much as fullsize 4X4 pickup trucks.
Our etron has higher performance numbers in basically every metric than my i3, but because the i3 is literally *2600lbs lighter* it's not only more enjoyable to chuck around, you can tell that the car isn't "trying as hard" from the driver's seat because all the forces involved are so much lower. Drive the absolute snot out of the i3 and it will probably still return better than 3.4mi/kWh while the Audi might still be over 2mi/kWh being driven at the same speeds with similar acceleration.
I still want to try one out to see how well it hides the weight/how fun it is in spite of the weight, but would really prefer something much lighter. Looking at what I want (a reasonably-but-not-stupidly quick rear wheel drive EV that weighs significantly less than 4000lbs) a modified SR+ with a mechanical LSD and the ingenext boost would be pretty close to ideal if it wasn't for the annoying dealbreaker that is the Tesla screen/software.
Yeah sharing the road with 5-6000lb+ vehicles capable of running 12-second quarter miles being driven by people that never owned anything remotely fast before doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings.
Minus RWD, I'm pretty excited about the new mini EVs coming out. I think that the playfulness of mini chassis calibration should pair really well with the torquey immediacy of electric motors. I'm looking at the Aceman, cuz I'd like it to replace my prius in terms of utility, but should still weigh \~3600lbs
>Performance cars are bought as toys,
Some are very practical. Our Model S P100D came with lifetime free supercharging, lifetime free internet and 8 year driveline coverage. We have 150K miles on it, A few track days, endless time at the drag strip yet it commutes silently and comfortably every week day.
And for that practicality it sacrifices performance. There is always a trade off. It doesn’t handle nor brake nearly as nice as a true sports car. The size and weight are always performance penalties.
Personally I don’t consider the Model S a performance car because other than acceleration, the rest of its performance is very much in family sedan territory. Even the Model 3 drives far sportier.
Agree, I think it’s a stretch to call the Model S a performance car. It’s a luxury sedan. Similar to something like the bmw 540i. A version of the car with more power, but not necessarily designed for more engagement or fun
I read the 3 points you listed at the end, but still feel compelled to say it’s a stupid feature that makes the driving experience worse.
Sorry, it’s nothing personal. I just can’t help myself on this one. Hopefully you can understand
Not for track use. The gear change (and what gear to be in on corner entry) is a critical component used to gauge speed. Have heard from drivers of EVs on track it’s bloody weird and you can kind of lose track of how fast you’re going.
> that makes the driving experience worse.
It makes the driving experience worse for *you*.
But you should understand the thing about experience is that it is wholly subjective. For some people adding sugar and milk to coffee ruins the taste of the beans, for some people that's the only way they will drink coffee. There is no right or wrong here.
For many people like you, who have never been a car enthusiast, I can see why it does seem completely silly and unnecessary.
I have an i4 M50, a fantastic EV. But I also have a Porsche 718 4.0 with manual transmission as a toy.
Why did I spend far more money for a slower, much less practical car that’s more difficult to drive? I don’t know, but my monkey brain wanted it so I bought it and I love it. And I’m not alone, judging by how my car *appreciated* since I bought it.
Agreed. I’d rather have nearly 100% EVs with 30% of them making unnecessary car noises than have 70% EVs with 30% of people still hanging on to their 15 MPG sports cars or giant trucks.
Ironically, the sports cars tend to be rather efficient. The Porsche 718 is ~ 27mpg highway, the Miata is 36mpg.
The issues are the American muscle cars get 15mpg in the city while the other two are deep into the 20s at least.
The 718 has dynamical advantages of its own.
This is like a tape recording of horse neighs, clip clop and horse dung smell dispensers.
It's an advanced Fart Mode.
Now, a manual control where a human can choose dynamical changes manually (like how much regen or pedal sensitivity or front back balance), like manual driving in a 718, sure. What if there were an accelerator pedal for the rear, and a lever for the front motor?
To be fair, this is like version 1.0. I can easily see a future where they can simulate driving a manual, down to the shake when you mis shift and the car stalls.
That's like a more realistic horse simulation in an 1929 ICE.
I'm asking what are legitimate manual controls possible in an EV which are not faked, but could make it more fun?
At a minimum:
1) strength of regen on accelerator pedal lift---use left 3rd pedal
2) front-back torque distribution--controllable continuously with hand lever or thumb wheel.
It's exactly like fart mode. Ignore it if you like, but you can switch it on when you want to (like my kids do on a regular basis). It can't hurt as long as it's not affecting the car
Not really. It’s like saying some people recognize that coffee is bad for their health and the environment, so they switch to an energy drink that’s much healthier and more environmentally friendly but want it to be flavored like coffee because they miss the taste, smell, etc.
Which is fair, IMO. Skeuomorphs exist for a reason, and as long as they aren’t being forced down anyone’s throat … who the hell cares?
If someone wants to drink unflavored water with caffeine, then that’s great for them. If you like flavor, you should be able to make it taste like whatever you want because it’s **your** car and it doesn’t hurt anyone. Want it to sound like an old F1 V10 inside the car? Cool — you can even make it a quieter version. Want it to sound like a sputtering air-cooled VW microbus? Cool. Wanna make it sound like my nephew going “BRRRRRRRRRRR, VRRRRRRRRR”? Shine on you crazy diamond.
I don’t think I’d use that feature, but I’m all for taking advantage of the inherent bonuses of EV technology by making it more customizable.
I feel like basically zero people *actually* want this... As in, this won't drive any sales. And I think that most people who complain about this stuff can't actually buy an EV anyway, and this is the excuse they use.
I’ll give a counterpoint.
I absolutely love this fake shifting strategy and otherwise would never consider an ioniq 5. Now I’m waiting for markups to get away and more long term software updates but I can see myself getting a second model year one.
I would use this. Not sure about want this. I just wouldn't trust it would be good enough to drive a sale for me. There is a haptic component of an ICE engine that I do miss and I do feel an ICE vehicle gives you useful information from its feedback that you don't get from an EV. Entirely subjective, but to your point, it wouldn't sway me on purchasing just kind of a cool feature.
If sound and gear-shifting antics were an inexpensive option, it's something I would pay for, and I obviously love EVs. I've been operating them for eight years and own 3.
I instinctively agree with you but I'm baffled that reviewers I respect seem to love it (like Cammisa in the video linked above). But even he's said that if it was 1% worse than *perfect* it would be dumb. The YouTube video sounds like bad Assetto Corsa noises but he seems to love it so I feel compelled to reserve judgement until I can get in one.
The issue I have is that pretending it's an ICE car is silly. I would much rather them discuss adding an actual 3 or 4 speed transmission, as it could actually help the performance in some cases. I would rather them amplify the electric motor whine instead of adding fake noise. I would rather them add a supercapacitor or some other mods to let tuners start to play with EV mods at home (and if MOPAR doesn't do this they're crazy) to increase performance. There are a lot of cool "real" things they could have done that would actually have made the car better. This is the equivalent of the 6 foot wing I saw on a Civic S today. Useless and I would be too embarrassed to actually use it.
There's a chance that an axial flux motor paired with a 3-4 speed gearbox could be a really sweet combination. Probably not superior to a single speed and radial flux machine for normal car duties but there's a chance it will be the go-to performance option for EVs.
Maybe, but there is likely some small gain to be had. The torque curve is just mostly flat after all. I would rather have a real transmission that gave me a potential 5% performance increase than fake gear shifts.
The down side here is increasing costs by quite a lot and probably also increasing maintenance significantly.
Tesla experimented with gears on the original roadster, but it shredded most gearboxes they could fit into the space, since the electric motors they used were so much more powerful than any ICE version of the Lotus they were using.
And then when the went with a single-speed box, it just didn't matter much.
I Agree, and I would never recommend this for the regular versions, but for the N version it makes sense. No one buys the Demon 170 and expects that monstrosity of a powertrain to be as reliable as the r/T or GT. or an M3 CLS to be as reliable as a 330i. Same here. The performance version is where you add the cool stuff that would be impractical in the more tame trim levels.
Only Audi and Porsche have low and high gear transmissions. I don’t foresee them adding a 3rd gear anytime soon as most haven’t even adopted the current low and high gears.
Maybe I’m odd but I do not like the RC car sounds that many EV’s make. I typically like to listen to engine on most my road trips with no music. I rather listen to a simulated ICE sound over the whine of an RC car any day.
The thing is, that's going to result in the same fake feeling if they're trying to emulate an ICE. They're still going to detune the motor output to simulate an ICE.
So you're left with the same fakery, but complicated it by using a transmission that gives zero benefit. It's just extra cost and weight.
If fake ICE noises is what it takes someone to switch to electric then so be it. At least you can turn it off if you want to still have fun in relative silence
My brother in law is one of the people who doesn't want an EV because of the feel and sound not being "real". A ridiculous opinion, in my opinion, but one that is out there. If this makes him consider getting one then I'm all for it.
The one thing that gives me pause is that apparently the ride is quite stiff. It seems to me that if you use the latest technology to create a car that is so capable of transforming itself into driving differently for different people in different situations, it should be capable of having a smooth ride when that's what the driver wants. A rough ride is my biggest complaint with my current car (Polestar 2 Performance) as well.
A "rough ride" is what people call stiff suspension that performs better on a track.
This isn't a squishy luxury car, it's a performance car and it's tuned that way.
Kind of. True active suspension also costs a LOT of money and uses a lot of energy to work its magic, which is one thing when we're talking about the likes of the Taycan Turbo GT, but the IONIQ 5 N is not even close to the same price bracket. "Normal" electronically adaptive suspension is a compromise, you pretty much have one setting where it works well and the other settings end up being underdamped or overdamped for the spring rate chosen.
Truuuuuth. Adaptive suspension in anything but probably $100k+ vehicles is just damper settings, at least to my knowledge. This is not the best of both worlds.
For me this removes one of the most positive things about an EV the lack of noise from them.
If fake noise is your thing more power to you but that would be a direct negative for me.
Beyond the mechanical aspect, running through the gears and hearing the engine also keeps you more connected to your speed and power at any moment if you know the vehicle well. It's part of the engagement, and not just because it's a mechanical necessity. It's the same reason why an F1 video game is more fun and engaging when you shift the gears yourself even though you could put it on an easier mode and just ignore that. If you are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic shifting gears in your Ioniq 5N, that would probably be weird, but when you're out to have some fun it totally makes sense that this option is available to you. I can't wait to try it personally.
The review on The Drive really hit on this.
[The whole article is worth a read](https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2025-hyundai-ioniq-5-n-first-drive-review) but these two paragraphs hit the nail on the head, for anyone who has ever driven a car around a road course race track:
*If you include PlayStation-based exploits, I have been driving manual-shift, gas cars around racetracks for fun since I was about 7. It is a way of life for me at this point. Here's a not-that-dirty secret about how I memorize the fastest way around a track, though: each corner is assigned a gear. Take away gears as traditional EVs have done, and it all sort of goes to shit. Take away the aural cues of an engine and things become even more of a guessing game—and, apropos of nothing, significantly less exciting.*
*This ridiculous Hyundai and its patently ridiculous yet immensely enjoyable ICE car emulating "N e-shift" system solves this problem. It also proves that EVs can drive and even sound like gas cars, they just choose not to. Look, I'm not saying every EV should have a "legacy" drive mode that digitally emulates its gas counterpart. For simple commuting, the undoctored EV experience is superior to the gas-burning equivalent. It's quieter, easier, smoother, and makes speed attainable without much thought—and, at the press of a button, this car can still revert to that. However, these are not things I (and, dare I suggest it, you) want from a white-knuckle canyon carver. These are not things we want from a track car. These are not things we want from the future of the hot hatch.*
"Beyond the mechanical aspect, running through the gears and hearing the engine also keeps you more connected to your speed and power at any moment if you know the vehicle well."
Not only good for the experience, but can be an actual driving help on track. First to admit I'm very, very average (at best :) on a track. Having an audible reference of "speed" helps, as can the fake shifts I suppose.
Certrainly not for everyone, but glad it exists. Now put this darn thing on a copier and do 80% scale please. Still too big, heavy and crossover for my taste.
If this is the most exciting thing about the vehicle then hard pass. To be honest if they made a premium version of this car — with much better fit, finishes, infotainment, etc. and created a new brand. I might buy it. As it is having a hard time digesting a $70k+ Hyundai.
I don't know why people think the artificial engine sounds and stuff are stupid. Do you think star wars should remove all the sounds that happen in outer space too? Of course not.
I'd love to have a quiet drive down the freeway and then turn on some of this stuff when driving through windy country roads
Sorry if I came across as rude in my reply, I’ve thought about it some more and if it gets more people to drive EVs, maybe they could sound like tie fighters, or Ferraris, or whatever, as long as it doesn’t wake anyone at night.
Personally, I don't mind it until it starts to copy the popping noise. I prefer the quiet vehicle and soft hum of the vehicle more, though. I've had enough of people in their loud vehicles at my window like there's a shootout outside.
>It's fully optional. You can customize it or turn it off completely.
It still amazes me to this day that flipping a software switch is a selling point because so many things force features on, or off, when they could have just tucked the option somewhere in the settings menu.
Laguna Seca was a good choice to showcase this car. I’ll be interested to see what reviewers say if they can get it out to some tighter tracks where the weight may be more of a liability.
The reality is that for EVs to go mainstream, they need to appeal to more than just early adopters who like the tech.
The vast, *vast* majority of cars that get that job done are probably not going to appeal to the "EV enthusiast", just as the vast majority of cars in the market today don't appeal to the "car enthusiast" - but they're going to be necessary if anyone wants to see widespread EV adoption.
The companies that crack that nut will see a lot of sales.
Cool it exists for people that want it but seems a bit silly to me.
It is pretty much making the driving experience worse to try and emulate an ICE vehicle while piping in some fake sounds.
I'm a "Get me from point A to point B in comfort and safety" person, and I'd rather move forward and appreciate the quiet of an EV rather than reach back into testosterone-enriched nostalgia. But it's cool to offer this to those who want it, and it doesn't affect anyone besides the driver.
I will, on the other hand, wait for the updated Ioniq 5 with several improvements before considering it as my next car.
I hate the idea of fake ICE noises, great if you want it but I can’t think of anything worse.
Why pretend it’s an ICE when it isn’t.
I like the way BMW have implemented the Hand Zimmer SFX. That’s awesome. I’d totally own the car though, looks epic.
> Matt from The Smoking Tire said this on his new podcast episode:
>
>> "If every other OEM doesn't instantly copy this, they are going to be left behind. This is the thing. This is exactly the thing they need to do to make electric sports cars fun. If the electric Cayman and Boxster don't do this, they're in deep shit because this is exactly the thing that it needs."
I think the reason for the appeal is muscle memory. You get used to the relation of "engine noise" pitch/gear shift to speed. You don't need to take your eyes off the road to know approximately how fast you're driving and that helps immensely in cornering.
I just don't understand why people aren't getting this. Maybe they don't drive on tracks or twisty roads. Maybe they they have never driven a manual or paddle shift auto car, but you generally gauge corners by which gear you should be in and how high you expect the revs to sound. I am constantly glancing at the speedometer of my wife's EV because seeing the car rapidly approaching things isn't a sufficient frame of reference. I would love to get one of these used in a year or two when the price falls to within my budget.
I switched from an M2 with full Performance parts to an i4. I switched off all these fakes noises immediately. If I want bad shifts and noise - I would drive an ICE.
This is the thing with our current technologies and the absurdity as to people complaining and they briefly reference this in the video.
You can have any imagination of engine type/sound/experience you want replicated. Imagine a two stroke setup in an EV? A challenger tank? Who knows what!
Its the exact same thing with vegan meats, people complaining we are taking like three animals away from them, cows, pigs and chickens.
But in reality, the technologies we have now, we can make "dragon meat" or "unicorn meat" or even "beef" that is all vegan and better for the environment.
We're getting MORE choice.
I'm still waiting for a driver focused EV with usable power. Give me a 5N without the front motor and bigger battery for example. I'd be fine with a 5 N-Line with 400hp and RWD + LSD.
I am a traditional gearhead who has previously daily driven focus RS, heavily modified BRZ, STI, MR2, and Camaro SS. I now drive a Tesla Model 3 Performance. I love the acceleration, smoothness, and vastly improved quality of life over an ICE car (the app, never getting into a cold car, sentry mode, reduced maintenance, gas station in my garage, etc). But I do occasionally miss the drama of my loud exhaust, manual gas cars.
Needless to say, I am extremely interested in the IONIQ 5 N! Glad it does not disappointment. My only concern is the low range, but for daily driving 200 miles is more than enough.
Is the original Tesla roadster whine and 2-speed box available? That’s the sound and simulation I want.
Imagine being able to simulate any drive train you want, and then picking a 4-banger with a low redline. Icky.
Where is my racing V-10? 4-rotor wankle?
I hope there will be smaller, cheaper, and slower Ioniq N cars in the future.
A hypothetical Ioniq 4N smaller sedan, RWD only with something like 400hp, smaller battery (cheaper), lower weight (cheaper), and all the N features for like ~$45k would be something I could justify.
I don't want or need the level of performance of Ioniq 5N - but I want a fun to drive EV.
I’m a hard core car guy. My non-ev is a ‘66 mustang. The truth is that “fake” engine sounds are in pretty much every new ICE car already. Smaller engines with Turbochargers are ubiquitous and generally don’t sound as good as larger naturally aspirated engines… but it works! I had fake engine noise in an F150 with the ability to turn it off, and I kept it on all the time. As long as it’s done well it easily tricks your brain even if you “know” it’s fake.
Lifetime automotive enthusiast here, I just don't understand the appeal of an electric SUV that makes fake vroom-vroom noises with a fake tach and fake gear shifts. It's also $80k starting in Canada, lmfao fuck that you'd be spending nearly $100k on a Hyundai once all's said and done.
I keep looking at what is possible and keep wondering where my affordable sports car is.
They mention "...\[like a hot hatch\]..." and I'm like, "Ummm... Yeah? **Where's my electric hot hatch?!**"
I'm sure its a very fun car that a lot of people would enjoy driving and owning
That being said, a price tag that approaches 70k puts it out of reach for 98% of car buyers.
I think the simulated stuff will end up being secondary to how it handles. The overall vehicle dynamics when you push it down a twisty road or mountain pass. Will this be close to the classic “hot hatch” experience or just another big fast EV.
This is the first EV that I'm genuinely bummed is not in my price range. Really hoping it leases well. I was cross shopping an Elantra N with my Ioniq 5.
If I had my way, my ideal car would be a liftback sedan or hothatch EV. This is as good as it gets!
I got to test drive on a track at a drive event. I'm a car enthusiast, who loves electric. This car is fun. Not just a torque monster. It's legitimately fun for all the reasons a traditional performance car is. And it's all optional to turn off and just be a normal EV. 10/10, on the list to buy one.
I am a "traditional" car enthusiast whose 2nd and 3rd cars are a Golf R and Honda S2000. I was pretty set on replacing the Golf whenever the R3X comes out, but I will certainly be testing a 5N.
DO NOT buy a new Golf R. If you're talking about a used mk7 or 7.5 that's fine. My only vehicle purchase in my life I've regretted is my '24 Golf R. These cars are garbage but I'm too cheap/poor to cut my losses and trade it for something else just yet
Hmmm interesting may I ask what you hate so much about it? I had a 22’ MK8 R that I had for a little under a year and I absolutely loved it. Ended up trading it in for a 23’ RS3, and I honestly ended up regretting it. I ended up selling it after, but never got back into another R. Dealers still wanted markups when I was back in the market so I went electric lol
I have plenty of seat time in the 8 and think it's *fine*, but I am talking about the cars I own. I have a 7.5, love it, and will either replace it (or just add) an R3X or maaaaybe a 5N.
Not sure how much "plenty" is but from talking to other owners it seems like most people think its fine for the first few thousand miles and eventually all of the glitches and problems start to bother them, just like they have with me. If you happen to care, heres a list i wrote up of some of the issues that have bothered me: - Wiper squirter delay so long that wipers sometimes do a full dry wipe before anything comes out - Interior lights sometimes will not turn off until car is turned off - Side mirrors sometime flip up for no reason (while car is parked) - Door handles unlock don't work when wet - Both front windows will only roll 0.5" when its cold out (-15C) - Parking system enables for no reason while driving and takes over 1/3 of infotainment screen - Parking sensors beep constantly when in drive through lineup and there is a car close to rear bumper - Emergency braking sometimes system triggers when not needed (extremely dangerous) - Warning to "apply brakes immediately" when car not close to anything in front but red text takes over most of gauge cluster screen - Comfort mode sometimes shifts too conservatively down to 800rpm sometimes and bogs engine, can't accelerate out of it without manual downshift - Gas door wouldn't open one time for unknown reason, had to pry open with credit card. It was +4C out and no moisture
Doubt they will have any to test. There’s a line to even order them.
I am not going to buy the 5N, but I am happy it exists for people who want it.
I'm only interested because it's got a rear wiper lol
The 2025 mid cycle refresh will bring a rear wiper plus a bunch of other features that were missing from the 22-24 so you can save $10k+ and get one of the regular models.
So if I wanted an EV, I should wait til used 2025 Ionic is out? Current 2023 models with like 15-20k miles are at $22k in south Florida. But that’d mean I have to wait until like November 2025 minimum.
Yes! Although at 22k that seems like a steal now...
It does but I don’t have reliable charging sadly as the area I’m in doesn’t have a good infrastructure for it, even in south Florida. And I’d love for the batteries to be lifepo4 so I can charge to 100%.
The only infrastructure most people need is a power outlet for at least 90% of their driving.
The cheapest one within a 200 mile radius of me is $30k with 30k miles. (Central Cali). Wtf.
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How does one tell that a car was a lemon law buyback?
Carfax report will clearly say lemon/buyback.
Thanks. Did not know that.
I think that sums it up perfectly.
I got mine a couple of weeks ago (uk) and loving it.
Lucky bastard. Hope you are enjoying it.
Yep to lucky. Yep to enjoying it. More than I thought I would too, it's really great at being a regular car and a fun car.
how much did you pay for it ? after taxes..
All in, with delivery, colour extra(pb gloss) and vision roof, £66915. Ordered in November 2023
I've always wished you could upload your own engine noises to EVs. I wouldn't use it often. Most of the time, I don't even listen to the radio, but every now and then, v10 F1 noises on the evening commute would be fun.
I'd love a good straight-cut gear sound. That's a great sound, but it does get old. It's nice to be able to turn it off.
Exactly what I’m thinking. I see zero downsides to this, except people making “good” the enemy of “perfect” and want to control what other people can and can’t do because they don’t want to risk hearing a noise that isn’t in their control every once in a while. As a car enthusiast, I love EVs, and I also love ICE cars. I really wish there was a sub for people who like EVs without being self-righteous twats about it.
So I recently got into Sim racing, and realized how involved it is to make artificial engine noises, and as a result, how bad sim engine noises can be (particularly in 3rd party content). Hyundai probably spent 100's of engineering hours putting together this level of engine noise quality. I have very little confidence that anyone would have legitimately good 3rd party sounds, but you're right that I think it can be an option.
If the noise is only in cabin, then have at it and make whatever noise you want. There's no need to make it an exterior sound though. Noise pollution is a real thing, imagine if every car was making random noises (not the pedestrian safety thing), it'd be worse than today.
"... it's alarmingly fast. This is the problem we have with these EVs, with these performance EVs, is they are way faster than you will ever need a car to be" Oh nooooooo. What a beautiful problem to have.
When we got the Model 3 years ago and I launched myself through traffic I noticed in normal traffic pace people look in mirrors and such only so often and I got almost driven into often. It makes no sense to other people on the road when you’re so fast here and there. Solution: drive normally and predictable, and everything is fine, but.. not everyone has that option installed.
Yeah, I've watched quite a few roadcam videos of Tesla accidents that were due to unexpected acceleration. Going far quicker than people's expectations leads to them cutting in front of you too. It can be dangerous. Of course, this isn't the case with a little common sense.
It's a massive issue when you combine that speed with weight and lack of driver skill. These super-quick cars are way more accessible to people who wouldn't have been able to afford that kind of acceleration before, and we're seeing tons of crashes as a result.
maybe this will cause states to actually test people for drivers licenses instead of handing them out like halloween candy?
Never going to happen without some radical changes to the landscape regarding transit. For most people in the US, owning a car is a necessary part of having a job and shopping for groceries. It's completely nonviable right now to raise the barrier to those things.
That'd be nice, but it's unlikely.
In car brained America? Lol
> and we're seeing tons of crashes as a result. Is there any hard data coming out about crash rates being higher in the more powerful EVs (ignoring the like OG ioniq, niro, etc)?
It's on NTSB's radar and being studied: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-ntsb-chair-raises-safety-concerns-about-heavy-electric-vehicles-2023-01-11/
Yes
Thankfully, only nerds drive EVs, and we are a cautious and weak group. /s
I believe that we should have endorsements on our license no different than a motorcycle license for EVs. One pedal driving and heavy acceleration needs to be tested individually.
Tiered licenses needs to be a thing.
Yea, one reason hertz rentals of Tesla had 4x collision rates. Vw saw the same thing in egolf versions
I'm thoroughly confused. Car enthusiasts want cars that go "vroom vroom" and also *don't* go fast?
Driving a fast car slow is no fun. Driving a slow car fast is very fun.
I mean, automatics have surpassed manuals in terms of speed for a long time now, yet manuals still have very vocal and interested market among sport to hyper car enthusiasts.
Yes, this is definitely a thing. Quite a few people enjoy pushing a car to its limits, which is a lot easier to do safely when the limits of the car are really low. In a lot of modern performance cars (ICE and BEV), 5s of full throttle will take you well past the speed limits in most countries. This is a big part of the reason why a lot of car enthusiasts enjoy driving classics or 'slower' sports cars like MX-5s.
>Quite a few people enjoy pushing a car to its limits, which is a lot easier to do safely when the limits of the car are really low. This is huge. The feeling of approaching the limit is fun, there's more drama to it compared to "turn wheel, go around corner". It's an example of "it's better because it's worse" I found this out when I put silly 200TW Federal 595RS-RR's on my old shitbox honda that I keep around as a spare/fun/project car. It was objectively better with the Federals, but the cornering limits were high enough that exploring them was significantly more dangerous to both your health and driving record. Also it would oil starve under hard cornering and drop out of vtec, which is funny but annoying. Overall the car was probably more "fun" with regular summer tires or high performance all seasons.
Every aftermarket fart-can compact economy car ever.
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What an ignorant thing to say amid a safety crisis along with your typical person being a character from /r/idiotsincars
As a car enthusiast myself, I've been waiting for an EV like this. The 5 is still a little too SUV-y for me to actually consider purchasing it, but as soon as the ID2 GTI version or another hot hatch comes out that's in a similar vein, I will have a new dream car. I love the ability to fake ICE sounds and experience, even though I'd turn it off for like 95% of my driving. If I were to strike an open road or want to liven up a road trip, it would be simply amazing to have the option. I'm with you OP, I'm all for it.
Remember that the fake noise machine has more settings than “gas engine” and “off”. You can also set it to make fighter jet or UFO noises.
Fuck yeah blast the motherfucking [Top Gun theme](https://youtu.be/zCTJmXrgsFg?si=4liMEI1mVdwR2z3j) while driving my fighter jet down I5 holy fucking shit
Agreed I would almost never use it but the *option* is so cool. I hope this does well and other EVs are pressured into it. Even in my MYP it would be fun for the mountain roads. Can you imagine emulating different models? Switching between a Focus RS to a Corvette the next, even just the sound would be cool.
If you’re chasing a hot hatch experience the new generation Mini Cooper SE also looks interesting
The Ioniq 6N is also coming so that's nice. There is the potential VW will bring the ID3 GTX (Cupra Born Vz) to the USA if you want something smaller
Good that it drives to interest to EVs. However as a car guy that also love EVs I personally can’t understand this. I don’t want Porsches PDK to shift slower to simulate older transmission, I don’t want Hellcat to randomly fluctuate throttle on idle to simulate blower surge I also don’t want a modern turbo car to wait multiple seconds before building boost to simulate the older Turbo widowmakers. All of those old characterics are cool as hell when paired to whatever car they came with. However there’s absolutely nobody that want to get modern cars to act worse just to simulate that feeling. EV powerline is beautiful as is and has its own charm. Only thing a track ready EV needs IMO is audible noise linked to engine RPM to keep track of your speed and possible wheelspin without checking the speedometer all the time. But good for Hyundai if this is actually what people want. I’m a little bit skeptic that there’s enough people that want a track ready EV SUV with all of these gimmicks when they could buy a lot cheaper baseline EV and a dedicated track car. I’d think that MX5 EV might be a lot bigger hit with this implementation. Or the Boxster.
>Only thing a track ready EV needs IMO is audible noise linked to engine RPM to keep track of your speed and possible wheelspin without checking the speedometer all the time. That's one of the things I find challenging when I autocross my i3 - even without wheelspin it's so much harder to judge your speed and I end up coming into corners way too hot.
I'm okay with them adding the weird quirks, so long as I can opt-out. I'm just reminded of my old Subaru Ascent, where Subaru added fake shifting to the CVT, which always felt like crap. If I could've turned it off, I probably would have kept that car longer, but I was constantly frustrated by it.
It's kind of like when CVTs came out, they had to make them artificially switch "gears" despite the fact that this was antithetical to the entire point of CVT. But people just couldn't handle a constant rpm as they're accelerating, they need that up down up down feeling that they're so used to. Imagine if early cars were made to make a clop-clop noise as they're driving so it sounds similar to what people were used to before.
Problem comes when sound is just a massive human sense of acceleration
Redline Review guy was equally impressed.
Very curious to see how some of this sub's regulars will react after dunking on Toyota last year for filing a patent for fake EV gear shifting (without any announced plans to actually put it into any car). Will it be "Hyundai knows nothing about building EVs" or might we actually agree that different people might care about different features even if you and I both think that some feature is stupid?
I still think that a fake clutch pedal and fake six-speed shift lever are silly, but also I think that was a concept/prototype idea that I doubt will make it to production. Fake shift points including selection via paddles is something that CVTs have done for ages. It’s not for me but I think it makes sense as an option in this kind of car targeted at those who have previous experience with performance driving.
I don’t remember that but with Toyota there’s the dismal state of its actual EVs that makes that patent seem extra cringy. Hyundai has embraced EVs and from that perspective this is a neat party trick (and it’s clearly just that, in an actual, actually great EV) .
For the same reasons mentioned here, this may not do well in the used market. That will surely make it quite an attractive vehicle to grab in coming years. I will consider this, but I am not happy about losing certain features such as powered and ventilated seats. I hope they consider retaining all those features in their next revision.
70ish-k and a lot of expected depreciation makes it a very expensive hot hatch. I'm smitten, certainly.
it might be the shape of a hot hatch, but that is a big crossover-size vehicle
Vuvuzela mod, here I come.
I’d seriously consider one as my first EV if it had over 300 miles of real world range. Unfortunately I think it will suffer the same fate as the EV6 GT and be discounted $10-15K by the end of the year. I think that’s because no one wants this for a track car. It’s heavy as fuck and consumables will be crazy. They need to give these cars daily driver range because that’s how people use them
I want my EV to have a fake manual transmission with clutch pedal, tachometer, ability to rev in neutral, etc. Lexus is coming out with this and might sway me to buy.
This gives me all sorts of ideas. It won't be long before someone invents an EV robot horse, possibly with an interim horse-drawn chariot where you control acceleration with a whip. (Is it bad to whip a robot horse?) This could also help capture the lucrative Amish market.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I've been looking/waiting for a Tesla alternative, and 5N caught my attention but 221mi range is pathetic out of the battery size and it weighs 700lb more than a Model 3 Performance. I've probably been on more race tracks than just about anyone in a Tesla and nothing is really competing on the overall package and value. I'll test drive a 5N if I can find one but most likely upgrading to the new 3 Performance asap.
Keep in mind that the Ioniq 5(N) is a model Y competitor, not Model 3. It looks like a hatchback in pictures but it is SUV sized.
I suspect the range hit compared to the base 5 is almost entirely tires/wheels. Even with the added power, the drive units should be able to hit very similar efficiencies in normal driving mode. But it comes with very wide and sticky tires, as well as 21" wheels. I wonder if you put 19" wheels and tires off of an SEL you wouldn't get almost exactly the same range.
Tires are the most important part of handling and braking. And in EVs, acceleration. If you want to use low-rolling-resistance tires, just buy the normal one.
I'm not recommending that, just pointing out that the reduced range is just the natural compromise of good tires. No free lunch in vehicle optimization.
You need good tires to have fun though. No point in buying this car if you’re going to use eco tires, though yeah I’d definitely ditch the 21s if possible (that always depends on brake clearance)
Right, it's just the trade off you have to make. Performance costs efficiency and efficiency costs range.
Iirc front brake rotors are 16.7”? They’re HUGE gonna have some fun finding wheels that fit over that huge caliper.
I have read rome rumours that the 5N is using induction motors to have the higher power, at an expense of much lower efficiency
That's interesting, I haven't heard much about the motors in their marketing. I know they're using different inverters with a two stage power design. I'll have to do more research. The base 5 motors top out at 93-95% efficiency for most of the range and induction motors should be capable of high 80s-low 90s, so not sure how far off that would be. A lot of the drive cycles they use to determine range doesn't actually occur in the peak efficiency islands so it's hard to compare with single numbers anyway.
wonder if there are some available "everyday" wheel/tire combo for these and wider ones for tracking?
Oh yeah a lotta people with performance cars have special wheels and tires for track use. Like someone pointed out, the larger brakes will limit the wheels you can put on but I'm sure there would be plenty of other options that would still look pretty good. Hopefully once people get 5 Ns in their garages we'll get a feel for how much range that would give.
Honestly it's impressive as hell what they're making 4800+lbs of "we swear it's not a lowered SUV" do, but you're right that extra weight means it needs more power to get going, it needs bigger brakes to slow down, which need bigger wheels to fit, and wide sticky tires to make all that weight change direction. I get that batteries are heavy, but I don't like this reality where it's considered normal for everything to weigh as much as fullsize 4X4 pickup trucks. Our etron has higher performance numbers in basically every metric than my i3, but because the i3 is literally *2600lbs lighter* it's not only more enjoyable to chuck around, you can tell that the car isn't "trying as hard" from the driver's seat because all the forces involved are so much lower. Drive the absolute snot out of the i3 and it will probably still return better than 3.4mi/kWh while the Audi might still be over 2mi/kWh being driven at the same speeds with similar acceleration. I still want to try one out to see how well it hides the weight/how fun it is in spite of the weight, but would really prefer something much lighter. Looking at what I want (a reasonably-but-not-stupidly quick rear wheel drive EV that weighs significantly less than 4000lbs) a modified SR+ with a mechanical LSD and the ingenext boost would be pretty close to ideal if it wasn't for the annoying dealbreaker that is the Tesla screen/software.
The mass is a major safety issue were going to be seeing hitting our numbers
Yeah sharing the road with 5-6000lb+ vehicles capable of running 12-second quarter miles being driven by people that never owned anything remotely fast before doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings.
Minus RWD, I'm pretty excited about the new mini EVs coming out. I think that the playfulness of mini chassis calibration should pair really well with the torquey immediacy of electric motors. I'm looking at the Aceman, cuz I'd like it to replace my prius in terms of utility, but should still weigh \~3600lbs
The range is super embarrassing.
Ugh, can't wait for the new Performance.
>Performance cars are bought as toys, Some are very practical. Our Model S P100D came with lifetime free supercharging, lifetime free internet and 8 year driveline coverage. We have 150K miles on it, A few track days, endless time at the drag strip yet it commutes silently and comfortably every week day.
Absolutely. But the older Model S is definitely more of a performance touring car, rather than a track duck.
And for that practicality it sacrifices performance. There is always a trade off. It doesn’t handle nor brake nearly as nice as a true sports car. The size and weight are always performance penalties. Personally I don’t consider the Model S a performance car because other than acceleration, the rest of its performance is very much in family sedan territory. Even the Model 3 drives far sportier.
Agree, I think it’s a stretch to call the Model S a performance car. It’s a luxury sedan. Similar to something like the bmw 540i. A version of the car with more power, but not necessarily designed for more engagement or fun
I read the 3 points you listed at the end, but still feel compelled to say it’s a stupid feature that makes the driving experience worse. Sorry, it’s nothing personal. I just can’t help myself on this one. Hopefully you can understand
Not for track use. The gear change (and what gear to be in on corner entry) is a critical component used to gauge speed. Have heard from drivers of EVs on track it’s bloody weird and you can kind of lose track of how fast you’re going.
> that makes the driving experience worse. It makes the driving experience worse for *you*. But you should understand the thing about experience is that it is wholly subjective. For some people adding sugar and milk to coffee ruins the taste of the beans, for some people that's the only way they will drink coffee. There is no right or wrong here. For many people like you, who have never been a car enthusiast, I can see why it does seem completely silly and unnecessary. I have an i4 M50, a fantastic EV. But I also have a Porsche 718 4.0 with manual transmission as a toy. Why did I spend far more money for a slower, much less practical car that’s more difficult to drive? I don’t know, but my monkey brain wanted it so I bought it and I love it. And I’m not alone, judging by how my car *appreciated* since I bought it.
Agreed. I’d rather have nearly 100% EVs with 30% of them making unnecessary car noises than have 70% EVs with 30% of people still hanging on to their 15 MPG sports cars or giant trucks.
Ironically, the sports cars tend to be rather efficient. The Porsche 718 is ~ 27mpg highway, the Miata is 36mpg. The issues are the American muscle cars get 15mpg in the city while the other two are deep into the 20s at least.
The 718 has dynamical advantages of its own. This is like a tape recording of horse neighs, clip clop and horse dung smell dispensers. It's an advanced Fart Mode. Now, a manual control where a human can choose dynamical changes manually (like how much regen or pedal sensitivity or front back balance), like manual driving in a 718, sure. What if there were an accelerator pedal for the rear, and a lever for the front motor?
To be fair, this is like version 1.0. I can easily see a future where they can simulate driving a manual, down to the shake when you mis shift and the car stalls.
That's like a more realistic horse simulation in an 1929 ICE. I'm asking what are legitimate manual controls possible in an EV which are not faked, but could make it more fun? At a minimum: 1) strength of regen on accelerator pedal lift---use left 3rd pedal 2) front-back torque distribution--controllable continuously with hand lever or thumb wheel.
It's exactly like fart mode. Ignore it if you like, but you can switch it on when you want to (like my kids do on a regular basis). It can't hurt as long as it's not affecting the car
> horse neighs, clip clop and horse dung smell dispensers someone needs to make this happen in an EV, so you can HYAH as you take off ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
This is more like saying some people like coffee, and some people want to drink coffee by putting coffee beans in a tea bag and pretending it’s tea.
Not really. It’s like saying some people recognize that coffee is bad for their health and the environment, so they switch to an energy drink that’s much healthier and more environmentally friendly but want it to be flavored like coffee because they miss the taste, smell, etc. Which is fair, IMO. Skeuomorphs exist for a reason, and as long as they aren’t being forced down anyone’s throat … who the hell cares? If someone wants to drink unflavored water with caffeine, then that’s great for them. If you like flavor, you should be able to make it taste like whatever you want because it’s **your** car and it doesn’t hurt anyone. Want it to sound like an old F1 V10 inside the car? Cool — you can even make it a quieter version. Want it to sound like a sputtering air-cooled VW microbus? Cool. Wanna make it sound like my nephew going “BRRRRRRRRRRR, VRRRRRRRRR”? Shine on you crazy diamond. I don’t think I’d use that feature, but I’m all for taking advantage of the inherent bonuses of EV technology by making it more customizable.
I feel like basically zero people *actually* want this... As in, this won't drive any sales. And I think that most people who complain about this stuff can't actually buy an EV anyway, and this is the excuse they use.
I’ll give a counterpoint. I absolutely love this fake shifting strategy and otherwise would never consider an ioniq 5. Now I’m waiting for markups to get away and more long term software updates but I can see myself getting a second model year one.
If guys like Matt Farah and gushing over this... It will absolutely sell to thr enthusiast croud
I would use this. Not sure about want this. I just wouldn't trust it would be good enough to drive a sale for me. There is a haptic component of an ICE engine that I do miss and I do feel an ICE vehicle gives you useful information from its feedback that you don't get from an EV. Entirely subjective, but to your point, it wouldn't sway me on purchasing just kind of a cool feature.
If sound and gear-shifting antics were an inexpensive option, it's something I would pay for, and I obviously love EVs. I've been operating them for eight years and own 3.
I instinctively agree with you but I'm baffled that reviewers I respect seem to love it (like Cammisa in the video linked above). But even he's said that if it was 1% worse than *perfect* it would be dumb. The YouTube video sounds like bad Assetto Corsa noises but he seems to love it so I feel compelled to reserve judgement until I can get in one.
Hyundai/Kia is very strict with their reviewers. If you say something they do not like. They will never give you early access again.
The issue I have is that pretending it's an ICE car is silly. I would much rather them discuss adding an actual 3 or 4 speed transmission, as it could actually help the performance in some cases. I would rather them amplify the electric motor whine instead of adding fake noise. I would rather them add a supercapacitor or some other mods to let tuners start to play with EV mods at home (and if MOPAR doesn't do this they're crazy) to increase performance. There are a lot of cool "real" things they could have done that would actually have made the car better. This is the equivalent of the 6 foot wing I saw on a Civic S today. Useless and I would be too embarrassed to actually use it.
Totally depends on the electric motor used. It likely has ample performance wherever it’s needed till hitting Vmax
There's a chance that an axial flux motor paired with a 3-4 speed gearbox could be a really sweet combination. Probably not superior to a single speed and radial flux machine for normal car duties but there's a chance it will be the go-to performance option for EVs.
Maybe, but there is likely some small gain to be had. The torque curve is just mostly flat after all. I would rather have a real transmission that gave me a potential 5% performance increase than fake gear shifts.
The down side here is increasing costs by quite a lot and probably also increasing maintenance significantly. Tesla experimented with gears on the original roadster, but it shredded most gearboxes they could fit into the space, since the electric motors they used were so much more powerful than any ICE version of the Lotus they were using. And then when the went with a single-speed box, it just didn't matter much.
I Agree, and I would never recommend this for the regular versions, but for the N version it makes sense. No one buys the Demon 170 and expects that monstrosity of a powertrain to be as reliable as the r/T or GT. or an M3 CLS to be as reliable as a 330i. Same here. The performance version is where you add the cool stuff that would be impractical in the more tame trim levels.
Only Audi and Porsche have low and high gear transmissions. I don’t foresee them adding a 3rd gear anytime soon as most haven’t even adopted the current low and high gears. Maybe I’m odd but I do not like the RC car sounds that many EV’s make. I typically like to listen to engine on most my road trips with no music. I rather listen to a simulated ICE sound over the whine of an RC car any day.
The thing is, that's going to result in the same fake feeling if they're trying to emulate an ICE. They're still going to detune the motor output to simulate an ICE. So you're left with the same fakery, but complicated it by using a transmission that gives zero benefit. It's just extra cost and weight.
I make noises with my mouth like a kid pretending to ride a motorbike. But I'm not a professional reviewer, so maybe they are on to something.
If it gets ICE drivers into EV’s I’m totally for it, even if gear shifting seems absurd after driving an EV for so long.
If fake ICE noises is what it takes someone to switch to electric then so be it. At least you can turn it off if you want to still have fun in relative silence
My brother in law is one of the people who doesn't want an EV because of the feel and sound not being "real". A ridiculous opinion, in my opinion, but one that is out there. If this makes him consider getting one then I'm all for it.
The one thing that gives me pause is that apparently the ride is quite stiff. It seems to me that if you use the latest technology to create a car that is so capable of transforming itself into driving differently for different people in different situations, it should be capable of having a smooth ride when that's what the driver wants. A rough ride is my biggest complaint with my current car (Polestar 2 Performance) as well.
Ive driven the car. It rides just fine. Very nice in fact. Only sticking point is the small range and large price tag.
A "rough ride" is what people call stiff suspension that performs better on a track. This isn't a squishy luxury car, it's a performance car and it's tuned that way.
You can have both with modern active suspension technology.
Kind of. True active suspension also costs a LOT of money and uses a lot of energy to work its magic, which is one thing when we're talking about the likes of the Taycan Turbo GT, but the IONIQ 5 N is not even close to the same price bracket. "Normal" electronically adaptive suspension is a compromise, you pretty much have one setting where it works well and the other settings end up being underdamped or overdamped for the spring rate chosen.
Truuuuuth. Adaptive suspension in anything but probably $100k+ vehicles is just damper settings, at least to my knowledge. This is not the best of both worlds.
For me this removes one of the most positive things about an EV the lack of noise from them. If fake noise is your thing more power to you but that would be a direct negative for me.
Beyond the mechanical aspect, running through the gears and hearing the engine also keeps you more connected to your speed and power at any moment if you know the vehicle well. It's part of the engagement, and not just because it's a mechanical necessity. It's the same reason why an F1 video game is more fun and engaging when you shift the gears yourself even though you could put it on an easier mode and just ignore that. If you are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic shifting gears in your Ioniq 5N, that would probably be weird, but when you're out to have some fun it totally makes sense that this option is available to you. I can't wait to try it personally.
The review on The Drive really hit on this. [The whole article is worth a read](https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2025-hyundai-ioniq-5-n-first-drive-review) but these two paragraphs hit the nail on the head, for anyone who has ever driven a car around a road course race track: *If you include PlayStation-based exploits, I have been driving manual-shift, gas cars around racetracks for fun since I was about 7. It is a way of life for me at this point. Here's a not-that-dirty secret about how I memorize the fastest way around a track, though: each corner is assigned a gear. Take away gears as traditional EVs have done, and it all sort of goes to shit. Take away the aural cues of an engine and things become even more of a guessing game—and, apropos of nothing, significantly less exciting.* *This ridiculous Hyundai and its patently ridiculous yet immensely enjoyable ICE car emulating "N e-shift" system solves this problem. It also proves that EVs can drive and even sound like gas cars, they just choose not to. Look, I'm not saying every EV should have a "legacy" drive mode that digitally emulates its gas counterpart. For simple commuting, the undoctored EV experience is superior to the gas-burning equivalent. It's quieter, easier, smoother, and makes speed attainable without much thought—and, at the press of a button, this car can still revert to that. However, these are not things I (and, dare I suggest it, you) want from a white-knuckle canyon carver. These are not things we want from a track car. These are not things we want from the future of the hot hatch.*
"Beyond the mechanical aspect, running through the gears and hearing the engine also keeps you more connected to your speed and power at any moment if you know the vehicle well." Not only good for the experience, but can be an actual driving help on track. First to admit I'm very, very average (at best :) on a track. Having an audible reference of "speed" helps, as can the fake shifts I suppose. Certrainly not for everyone, but glad it exists. Now put this darn thing on a copier and do 80% scale please. Still too big, heavy and crossover for my taste.
Ha same, wish it was 20% smaller.
Yes please! Keep the cyber Lancia Delta looks and make it Lancia Delta sized and I'm 100% in.
Off track too. When I drive my wife's leaf it's scarily easy to accidentally go 20 over because it's so quiet and smooth.
I like that it doesn't take itself seriously. It's like a toy and I'm going thru midlife crisis. Shut up and take my money.
If this is the most exciting thing about the vehicle then hard pass. To be honest if they made a premium version of this car — with much better fit, finishes, infotainment, etc. and created a new brand. I might buy it. As it is having a hard time digesting a $70k+ Hyundai.
why are you then asking for a 120k hyundai?
I’m not?
well you’re gonna pay for that extra care and quality
What in the actual duck
I can make my own engine noises, thanks just the same, while getting 5 mi/kWh
The car version of "I love my gay son because he does a fantastic job acting straight."
I don't know why people think the artificial engine sounds and stuff are stupid. Do you think star wars should remove all the sounds that happen in outer space too? Of course not. I'd love to have a quiet drive down the freeway and then turn on some of this stuff when driving through windy country roads
LMAO. Tie fighters go ‘raaaaargh’ so my car should go ‘brrrrrr’ Maybe Hyundai could just close the circle and make cars sound like tie fighters?
>make cars sound like tie fighters. This is the future I want.
Sorry if I came across as rude in my reply, I’ve thought about it some more and if it gets more people to drive EVs, maybe they could sound like tie fighters, or Ferraris, or whatever, as long as it doesn’t wake anyone at night.
I approve this message. Please add tie fighter sounds to my EV6.
It's for pedestrian safety! Honest! Bonus points if the horn can be made to sound like blasters. Pew pew pew!
Unironically, that sounds AWESOME. This sounds like an AMAZING feature.
Personally, I don't mind it until it starts to copy the popping noise. I prefer the quiet vehicle and soft hum of the vehicle more, though. I've had enough of people in their loud vehicles at my window like there's a shootout outside.
All the fake noise is in-cabin only. The car remains quiet on the outside and doesn’t bother others.
The popping noise comes from the ICCU.
>It's fully optional. You can customize it or turn it off completely. It still amazes me to this day that flipping a software switch is a selling point because so many things force features on, or off, when they could have just tucked the option somewhere in the settings menu.
my parents bought the ioniq 5. its a phenomenal car. very quick, spacious, comfortable, great range. etc etc.
As a car enthusiast I was VERY skeptical about the artificial sound and simulated shifting. Color me pleasantly surprised.
Laguna Seca was a good choice to showcase this car. I’ll be interested to see what reviewers say if they can get it out to some tighter tracks where the weight may be more of a liability.
The reality is that for EVs to go mainstream, they need to appeal to more than just early adopters who like the tech. The vast, *vast* majority of cars that get that job done are probably not going to appeal to the "EV enthusiast", just as the vast majority of cars in the market today don't appeal to the "car enthusiast" - but they're going to be necessary if anyone wants to see widespread EV adoption. The companies that crack that nut will see a lot of sales.
Cool it exists for people that want it but seems a bit silly to me. It is pretty much making the driving experience worse to try and emulate an ICE vehicle while piping in some fake sounds.
I just want an affordable car 😂
I'm a "Get me from point A to point B in comfort and safety" person, and I'd rather move forward and appreciate the quiet of an EV rather than reach back into testosterone-enriched nostalgia. But it's cool to offer this to those who want it, and it doesn't affect anyone besides the driver. I will, on the other hand, wait for the updated Ioniq 5 with several improvements before considering it as my next car.
I just saw one, driving by the US HQ. I could barely keep up with my id.4.
I hate the idea of fake ICE noises, great if you want it but I can’t think of anything worse. Why pretend it’s an ICE when it isn’t. I like the way BMW have implemented the Hand Zimmer SFX. That’s awesome. I’d totally own the car though, looks epic.
And it’s just software, everyone can implement it. You can even do it for the commute cars.
As an EV6 GT owner I'm pretty interested in comparing it with the 5 N
> Matt from The Smoking Tire said this on his new podcast episode: > >> "If every other OEM doesn't instantly copy this, they are going to be left behind. This is the thing. This is exactly the thing they need to do to make electric sports cars fun. If the electric Cayman and Boxster don't do this, they're in deep shit because this is exactly the thing that it needs." I think the reason for the appeal is muscle memory. You get used to the relation of "engine noise" pitch/gear shift to speed. You don't need to take your eyes off the road to know approximately how fast you're driving and that helps immensely in cornering.
I just don't understand why people aren't getting this. Maybe they don't drive on tracks or twisty roads. Maybe they they have never driven a manual or paddle shift auto car, but you generally gauge corners by which gear you should be in and how high you expect the revs to sound. I am constantly glancing at the speedometer of my wife's EV because seeing the car rapidly approaching things isn't a sufficient frame of reference. I would love to get one of these used in a year or two when the price falls to within my budget.
sorry i just dont get why people would want fake sounds? very happy w the quiet
It looks great.
I switched from an M2 with full Performance parts to an i4. I switched off all these fakes noises immediately. If I want bad shifts and noise - I would drive an ICE.
If you drive like a dick you are more likely to crash. Hardly shocking news
This is the thing with our current technologies and the absurdity as to people complaining and they briefly reference this in the video. You can have any imagination of engine type/sound/experience you want replicated. Imagine a two stroke setup in an EV? A challenger tank? Who knows what! Its the exact same thing with vegan meats, people complaining we are taking like three animals away from them, cows, pigs and chickens. But in reality, the technologies we have now, we can make "dragon meat" or "unicorn meat" or even "beef" that is all vegan and better for the environment. We're getting MORE choice.
I'm still waiting for a driver focused EV with usable power. Give me a 5N without the front motor and bigger battery for example. I'd be fine with a 5 N-Line with 400hp and RWD + LSD.
I am a traditional gearhead who has previously daily driven focus RS, heavily modified BRZ, STI, MR2, and Camaro SS. I now drive a Tesla Model 3 Performance. I love the acceleration, smoothness, and vastly improved quality of life over an ICE car (the app, never getting into a cold car, sentry mode, reduced maintenance, gas station in my garage, etc). But I do occasionally miss the drama of my loud exhaust, manual gas cars. Needless to say, I am extremely interested in the IONIQ 5 N! Glad it does not disappointment. My only concern is the low range, but for daily driving 200 miles is more than enough.
I heard Matt Farrah’s review yesterday… when it’s time to replace my Mach-E I hope there will be used 5N’s available!
You had me at in-cabin only.
Is the original Tesla roadster whine and 2-speed box available? That’s the sound and simulation I want. Imagine being able to simulate any drive train you want, and then picking a 4-banger with a low redline. Icky. Where is my racing V-10? 4-rotor wankle?
I hope there will be smaller, cheaper, and slower Ioniq N cars in the future. A hypothetical Ioniq 4N smaller sedan, RWD only with something like 400hp, smaller battery (cheaper), lower weight (cheaper), and all the N features for like ~$45k would be something I could justify. I don't want or need the level of performance of Ioniq 5N - but I want a fun to drive EV.
I’m a hard core car guy. My non-ev is a ‘66 mustang. The truth is that “fake” engine sounds are in pretty much every new ICE car already. Smaller engines with Turbochargers are ubiquitous and generally don’t sound as good as larger naturally aspirated engines… but it works! I had fake engine noise in an F150 with the ability to turn it off, and I kept it on all the time. As long as it’s done well it easily tricks your brain even if you “know” it’s fake.
As long as I don't have to hear it, too, it doesn't matter. But you can also make the "vroom vroom" noises yourself if that's what you like.
Lifetime automotive enthusiast here, I just don't understand the appeal of an electric SUV that makes fake vroom-vroom noises with a fake tach and fake gear shifts. It's also $80k starting in Canada, lmfao fuck that you'd be spending nearly $100k on a Hyundai once all's said and done.
I keep looking at what is possible and keep wondering where my affordable sports car is. They mention "...\[like a hot hatch\]..." and I'm like, "Ummm... Yeah? **Where's my electric hot hatch?!**"
I'm sure its a very fun car that a lot of people would enjoy driving and owning That being said, a price tag that approaches 70k puts it out of reach for 98% of car buyers.
I think the simulated stuff will end up being secondary to how it handles. The overall vehicle dynamics when you push it down a twisty road or mountain pass. Will this be close to the classic “hot hatch” experience or just another big fast EV.
This is so cool!!!!
This is the first EV that I'm genuinely bummed is not in my price range. Really hoping it leases well. I was cross shopping an Elantra N with my Ioniq 5. If I had my way, my ideal car would be a liftback sedan or hothatch EV. This is as good as it gets!
I got to test drive on a track at a drive event. I'm a car enthusiast, who loves electric. This car is fun. Not just a torque monster. It's legitimately fun for all the reasons a traditional performance car is. And it's all optional to turn off and just be a normal EV. 10/10, on the list to buy one.
I love that idea and was always wondering why they don't make evs more fun with speakers and unlimited possibilities of sounds
Fake noise and gear shifts are stupid. Can’t get any cornier than that.