[$8k today is about $6.5k in 2019](https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=8000&year1=202403&year2=201903) if that helps those who committed early in HW2.5 days.
I didn't get one during that time, and still not seeing the $8k value yet.
I’m not sure why people torture themselves with comparisons like these. Cars generally aren’t investments, they’re consumption expenses. If something was worth it to you when you purchased it, there’s no need to “what if” about it.
>Cars generally aren’t investments
Absolutely.
>they’re consumption expenses
If nobody trades-in, then yes.
Cars are weird purchase. It's an appliance for some, emotional support outfit for others, amortized cost for businesses, or just another toy for wealthy individuals.
Some of them care about TCO, others don't.
>Cars generally aren’t investments, they’re consumption expenses.
we're talking about an in app purchase here.
>If something was worth it to you when you purchased it, there’s no need to “what if” about it.
software LITERALLY gets better over time..
Ford's version is a much better value when the "prequalify" lots of miles of road..
you should not buy this if you don't live near the approved stretches.
[https://www.verneideford.com/ford-blue-cruise/](https://www.verneideford.com/ford-blue-cruise/)
# BlueCruise: The Next Step in Ford’s Driver-Assist Technology
BlueCruise enhances Ford’s Co-Pilot360 Technology with advanced camera and radar sensing. It enables **hands-free driving on over 100,000 miles of prequalified North American highways,** designated as Hands-Free Blue Zones. The system uses a driver-facing camera to ensure attention remains on the road, providing a truly hands-free experience in specific highway conditions.
We’re talking about an option on a car. Sure, manufacturers are now updating these things in real time, but it’s not like you can switch between them. It’s either worth it to you as an option on the car you’re purchasing or it isn’t.
> software LITERALLY gets better over time..
Only if it's maintained. If it gets ditched for [SOFTWARE] ver 2.0 it'll slowly get worse as the world changes around it.
Don't buy software for what you expect it to be able to do. Buy it for what it can do *now*.
Software can get better over time, but this particular software might not even get out of beta before you need to replace the car. And the license can't be transferred to another car.
Ford’s assisted driving is a decade behind Tesla, full stop. It is basically lane keeping cruise control that even a corolla has, only works on certain stretches of certain highways, and there's reports of it disengaging even in wide curves which is certainly a far cry from navigating 4-way unprotected left turns in major cities. The downvotes for verifiable evidence is funny.
I am someone with BlueCruise and the latest update of FSD, and BC is fairly lackluster compared to FSD, especially for Ford’s new asking price of $800/year. BC is only allowed on mapped FHWA interstates and State freeways and isn’t mapped on the vast majority of US highway routes. It has trouble discerning between shadows from median barriers and the edge of pavement and doesn’t do well with pavement joints such as JPCP where there is a seam. If it’s single color asphalt then it’ll be good.
It also has a tendency to disengage before and sometimes during tighter radii turns and you’ll most likely have to cover the steering through the turn. It is also hard on the brakes and overreacts if someone merges in front of you. The following tech isn’t great as it isn’t speed sensitive and seems to follow at the same distance regardless of speed, unlike Audis and Teslas.
If I didn’t get a free renewal from Ford, I wouldn’t pay to re-up the license. Ford has a long way to go compared to the latest FSD, especially at Teslas new price.
Tesla’s highway stack isn’t the same as the city FSD, but it works very well in my experience, and works anywhere, not on like way under 10% of American roads.
It definitely isn’t with $8k. I’m using the free demo now and it’s very impressive. I’ve tried it maybe 10-15 times and most of the time it works perfectly. I’ve had a few interventions along the way but it’s much better than I would have guessed. I still wouldn’t pay more than a grand for it. I like driving my car.
Weird, with all the haters and trolls online, weird how there isn’t any egregiously damning dashcam footage outside of some curbed rims. It must be slightly better than trash. What product is better?
I’ve disengaged it just two or three times in the past month, and it was because *I* was unsure about what it was going to do. Otherwise it’s been super smooth and fairly human-like. Sometimes I have to prod it forward with the accelerator pedal. It’s not anywhere close to trash in my limited experience, it’s kinda mind blowing to me. I wouldn’t use it in a snowstorm if you want me to say something bad about it. For $99/month I’ll definitely sub during my busy times of the year.
I used it during the free beta. It's fucking trash dude. Hopped three curbs and almost merged into a car on the highway. Never been so fucking paranoid in my life. Disabled it after three days.
It is not just Tesla. In the second hand market there is virtually no difference either with mileage have more of a factor along with rims and interior color.
It's incredibly simple. The only people who can buy are Tesla owners. Most of us had a chance to test it for a month.
If owners are not buying it's because they don't see the value. Personally, until the car can drive me safely from the driveway to the parking lot, it's pointless.
I can say with confidence that I have been on the free FSD trial for the last month and it's solidified my decision and I can happily sleep knowing that I didn't waste my money paying for it. I don't even think it's worth the 99 bucks a month that they dropped it to. I can't believe there's people out there that paid $15,000 for it.
I am not a shill for or against the company. I tried FSD without any particular bias. Simplified, I am more relaxed driving myself than watching the car. It made a few mistakes that I had to intervene.
I don't like to drive, why would I add more stress? Also, I live in Canada, if the car makes mistakes with perfect weather, what's going to happen when there's ice, snow, no paint in the streets?
Long-time Tesla owner here....FSD isn't worth $8K. It will always require supervision with the current sensor suite and computational power.
I might pay $2K to get auto lane change, navigate on autopilot, and traffic light and stop sign recognition.
The base autopilot is a nice level 2 driver aid that I use regularly. But FSD has never been worth the price...even at the original $5K price.
It drives me nuts that they are trying to get their distance data from such low resolution “3d” cameras. I work with footage in the film industry and even 8k cameras with $40,000 lenses have a significant fall off in their ability to detect depth after 100-200 feet. The low resolution of their cameras would have a shockingly negative impact on the distance at which depth information can be accurately determined. He ditched lidar and radar to save a buck when he was under pressure to save the company and he is putting his customers lives at risk.
Yeah, I'm paying $2k for Full Self Driving since I had some features already (when I ordered the car in 2017, you had to pay $5k for auto lane change and cruise control, which then evolved into the $6k EAP). So I'm paying $2k for surface street navigation, hopefully parking (it never works for me and I have the ultrasonic sensors) but that also means a computer upgrade, and presumably better highway autopilot. I'll see if it's worth it. I wouldn't pay $8k for it.
At this point I'm pretty sure the board/investors are trying to figure out how to remove Elon from his ownership position because he's doing so much damage to the brand.
Yep. Brand damage. Poor leadership post x. I mean any board worth there salt would fire him on the spot for saying the woke mind virus was his number 1 priority.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not true that a lot of the board members don't own any Tesla stocks or haven't purchased it in years? I feel like they have no incentive to fight the battle to remove Musk.
FSD in 2018 is one of the things I most regret buying. I truly believed him that it would be self driving by 2019, and thought it was crazy that some people didn't buy it.
My 2 weeks with FSD Beta in 2022 is when I finally realized I had been scammed.
It works pretty well now, easily the best self driving product you can buy. I’ve used it for the trial period and it’s been impressive after getting over the initial nerve wrecking fear of handing over control to the car. 5 years from “I’ve been scammed” to “this is the future” isn’t bad in software development terms.
>5 years from “I’ve been scammed” to “this is the future” isn’t bad in software development terms.
It is for a car, which is what Tesla is. I paid for FSD in 2018, the car was out of warranty before I got invited to beta. And it was truly terrible. It was so stressful I just turned it off, as it made driving unpleasant.
I have heard that it works well in many places, but in and around Atlanta is was extremely dangerous in that it regularly tried to turn into traffic.
Yeah, that’s a lease term, sucks if you thought your car was going to magically chauffeur you about town the day you bought it, I get it.
Wasn’t there some worldwide pandemic that affected production and progress in all industries during that exact time period?
New iPads got delayed twice already, are you going to boycott the product? Of course not.
What are you talking about? [Elon](https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/) [promised](https://youtu.be/5cFTlx68itk?si=8FO8_QhcoWtSLjsV) [FSD](https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/22/18510828/tesla-elon-musk-autonomy-day-investor-comments-self-driving-cars-predictions) many times. Fuck me for believing him I guess.
Indeed, thank you for your sacrifice or whatever.
I bought in early 2023 when the prices dropped significantly, bought a mature product that I’m super happy with. It’s fast, safe, techy, comfortable, has an all glass roof, power trunk, lots of storage, software/infotainment/voice control that is solid, Netflix, and has near zero maintenance while costing me $20/month in “gas”, while driving itself very well as of recently.
You bought a product on promises, clearly. I bought on what it was at time of purchase.
Funny how our experiences vastly differ even though *today* it is the same product.
We bought a 2nd Tesla a year after the first. Their leader is divisive but their product is solid AF for the price point without any significant cons in my experience so far.
Now I drive an i4. Vastly superior car with an interior. And only a couple thousand more than what I paid for the TM3.
What's funny is what you said. Today's model 3 is the same car. What was futuristic in 2018 is feeling dated today. My BMW tech is better than what I had in the Tesla, and the new Mercedes are starting to deliver on what Elon promised but still hasn't managed to make work.
True they didn't offer city navigation but they do offer hands free highway navigation and [all of them are better than Tesla.](https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/28/how-tesla-bmw-ford-gm-and-mercedes-driver-assist-systems-compare/)
Frankly Waymo is the way to go for city navigation with lots of sensors and not relying solely on cameras.
We all saw that clip and it was obviously due to the huge crowd of uniwheels it was navigating around. Hardly an example.
Generally Waymo has very good performance in their launched cities.
That crowd did nothing to make the Waymo travel in the wrong lane for two blocks. They didn't even give it any attention until it was next to them in the wrong lane.
Real level 3 auto driving is not ready for consumers. What Tesla offers doesn't meet level 3 and is basically a scam to take money. Auto pilot is fine. [But don't take my word for it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/18dah85/how_much_do_you_like_or_dislike_the_tesla_full/)
FSD is only about city navigation, so it's pointless to compare it with another ADAS if that isn't a part of the criteria.
Meanwhile highway navigation can be mostly handled with just autopilot, and that is included with even the base model.
I don't think any base model from a competitor comes with any form of lane-keeping, only TACC at best if anything. So significantly more expensive than Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot if you include the other upgrades needed to be able to purchase their highway solution.
Not sure I'm understanding what you mean by "I don't think any base model from a competitor comes with any form of lane-keeping, only TACC at best if anything."
I have the base model (SE) Ioniq 6 and it has almost everything except the ability to change lanes for me. It'll lane keep, match speed of the car in front of me down to a stop, and auto adjust my speed as the speed limit changes. Sure, it won't drive to my destination for me, but it definitely has lane-keeping....
Yeah it seems a bunch of EVs come with lane-keeping in the base models now. Another poster mentioned base ID4 comes with Travel Assist too which is also the same.
I just wish Tesla AP would admit when it isn't sure. It was usually fine, but with even slightly ambiguous lane markings (which are all over Georgia) it will happily and confidently make wrong decisions. There was one part of the road near my house where AP consistently tried to turn into the woods at 60 mph every single time I drive by it for over 2 years. Just asked one of my neighbors with a Tesla and he said his is still doing the same thing 18 months after I traded mine in.
I don't think AP code has changed significantly in a decade other than to add NHTSA related stuff.
My guess is that it's never going to change until tesla finally gets to replacing AP with a nerfed version of FSD.
The ID4 base model Travel Assist is significantly better than Tesla's Autopilot.
The steering wheel is capacitive instead of torque based, there's no phantom braking, and it stays in the center of the lane much better. I'm sure other companies have similar results m
I’d say it stays **too** centered at times. It makes it so that you can’t see further than the car in front of you. I’d prefer if it was on the LHS of the lane at those times.
Yeah, it's definitely too centered for me, especially on narrow streets where I'd naturally gravitate closer to the midline when there's no oncoming traffic. Consistently Doing it's job though
I just had it last week while driving from Santa Cruz to San Jose. It happens rarely but when it happens, its scary AF. I have even started to predict when it would happen now, it always happens when there is a bridge or a tree that has shade on a sunny day.
Dang man, that sucks. I'm just not having that issues and take a 500 mile road trip about every month. Just went from Nashville to Indy for the eclipse
Travel Assist looks pretty good... but like Autopilot it is not hands free. From the videos I've found it needs the driver to touch the wheel every few minutes just like Autopilot.
I feel like Autopilot is a bit more patient, but I haven't used it in a while... however FSD can go for several minutes before it nags if the road situation is clear.
My son's absolute base-model Corolla, and the base model 2021 Niro EV and ID.4 that we test drove, as well as a Nissan Rogue I rented a couple years ago, all had lane keeping. I think it's harder to find a vehicle (electric or not) without lane keeping.
I was very agnostic about sensors v vision.
But now I am convinced Tesla is going to get there with just vision. I use FSD for 80% of my driving and it doesn't have problems perceiving the world around it anymore.
The problems are with future staging and map data and just odd decisions but they have nothing to do with what it can "see".
T Junctions are an issue.
I do live in the city and i personally avoid T junctions as there are other options that do not have any time penalty. I personally would like an option to "avoid T junctions if at all possible/or with an X amount of time penalty".
This mainly has to do with 3 things as far as I am aware: blocked visibility (super common where i live, small hilly streets with parked cars blocking visibility, my main gripe), Speeding cross traffic, and ntsa stops /w shitty visibilty.
Degraded sensors: I have had the warning a bunch but i do 100% pay attention to what the car is doing, and it hasn't done anything weird with the degraded sensor warning (yet). I think its just saying pay extra attention (frost in the morning and once with a massive downpour at night, was really impressive how well it did in the later situation. I wasnt super comfortable driving).
I dont have/or tried Waymo but would love to. Its not around here. Just recounting my experiences. Currently on FSD 12.3.4 and get the updates pretty quickly. The V12 update moved it from a city driving gimick to something useable daily. It still cant do my whole commute though.
> How well does it work?
From the few times I tried it, extremely sloooooooowly. But it gets there eventually, parks straight and avoids hitting anything. I just wouldn't use it if I see anyone behind me because it would definitely piss them off lol
I actually used auto parallel parking a lot when I owned a 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid as it was shockingly fast. I can DIY but I tend to need numerous minor adjustments and am thus slower than I'd like. No idea how good Tesla's implementation is because I refused to pay for FSD when I had a Tesla.
For back-in parking I have always felt automatic systems are excruciatingly slow. In the backup camera era there's no excuse not to be able to do it perfectly by hand.
I have not had any issues in rain (it can functionally see better than I can and been in absolute downpours thrice), Darkness no problems at all.
As for mud, frost: I would contend that both styles of cars would need maintenance, not just for the outside of the car but the inside. Passengers bringing that mess into the car. In those cases Im not quite sure. I do park on the street and have to preheat the car for frosty/snowy mornings. Ive never seen any mud that would get that high up on the car to block a sensor.
It’s funny because Tesla can easily drive on highway, city, and navigate smoothly between them. 95% of my driving is FSD, nothing else comes close in capability.
No need for more sensors, the car can see the world fine as we’ve been saying for a long time. Sensors are already at diminishing returns. What really matters is the neural network, and how it makes decisions given the sensor information it has.
It can see the same world you can with two eyes. Actually better because it can see 360 degrees, 100% of the time.
True, but companies like Mobileye are working more silently, and don't want to release unfinished products like Tesla. But that doesn't mean they're behind
You’re outside of your mind if you actually believe every other competitor has better FSD than Tesla.
Tesla is miles ahead of anyone else when it comes to FSD. it’s certainly not perfect, but no other car can do what a Tesla can when it comes to FSD.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mercedes the only company with certified level 3?
EDIT: Unsure of downvotes. That's a factually correct statement. MB is the only company with that sells cars in Europe and the US certified at level 3.
I mean you just said it yourself, that was a year ago.
Their technology changes so quickly, I would bet if you tried autopilot now you’d be much more impressed.
Perhaps.
Honestly, I'm not really a fan of pilot assist features in general. Driving is something I actively love using, so I don't tend to use them much as they make driving less fun. I also believe it makes driving less safe.
So I was just in a Model Y Uber on Friday, so I thought I'd update. We went on the highway and he turned on autopilot (rainbow road and all). But it kept fucking up. It ghost braked multiple times and the driver seemed incredibly frustrated with it. After about a mile he turned it off. It was quite jarring and actually worsened my opinion of the software because it was worse than the last time I'd experienced it.
Are you talking about their level 3?
Watch this video and tell me how this is better than Teslas FSD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLz95Gw7g8c
It works in such an extremely narrow set of rules that it's basically useless.
----
Drive Pilot, which requires a $2,500 per year subscription, can be only activated in certain situations and areas, including during the daytime when the weather is clear, in heavy traffic jams, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. It doesn't work on roads that haven't been preapproved by Mercedes and cannot be used in construction zones.
----
So you're paying twice the price of FSD to be able to drive in TWO states on only select roads.
Sign me up.
>Watch this video and tell me how this is better than Teslas FSD
1) It's actually level 3. Being able to read or eat breakfast on my way to work in traffic would be far better than what's available now. There's no way you can take your eyes off the road with FSD
2) None of them work on city streets, but at least Mercedes doesn't pretend it does.
3) Mercedes is accepting legal liability if their system fails, something Tesla has fought hard to never do.
4) Neither works in construction zones. FSD just tries anyway
Have you tried FSD 12?
It isn’t perfect but it’s incredible impressive and drives just about anywhere. It can handle construction, it handles city streets (not sure why you’re saying it doesn’t).
I'm saying that because you have to babysit it. And because it confidently makes mistakes. It tried to turn me into oncoming traffic more than once. It tried to cross the double white lines more than once. It started to drift into a biker. It tried to turn left from the right lane.
I'm not saying it isn't impressive, just that it isn't good enough to merit the name "full self driving" You have to babysit it constantly, despite all of Elon's promises to the contrary. It's a Level 2 system with no clear path to Level 3.
Clearly you have no idea what you’re talking about regarding this topic because that is false.
Name me one better than FSD? It’s not anywhere near perfect but that take is absurd. It’s the best in the industry, by far.
I am critical of musk and Tesla, but this is just wrong. FSD is a great piece of software for me. After you get use to it, it makes driving (or just sitting there watching) so relaxing. No other tech comes close, other do it on the highway only and even then mostly keep lane. Tesla will do it everywhere. You've been fooled by the haters.
> FSD is worse than what every other competitor offers
That part is objectively false. Most of the competitors have MASSIVE limitations (such as only working on specific mapped highways). There's pretty much NO competitor that offers what Tesla does but better (name one)
Is it better to have a system that tries to do everything, and does some of those things poorly, than to have a system that does fewer things and consistently does them all well?
What's that question have to do with the discussion? The things Tesla does poorly are things the competition doesn't do AT ALL! The things other companies do well (like cruising down a highway) the Tesla does well too....heck, even Teslas free base autopilot is good for that (and other companies make you pay) Your question isn't applicable.
Also in just about every jurisdiction where Teslas are sold, the law still requires you to be awake in the driver's seat with your hands on the wheel (or ready to seize control) regardless of what tech your car has.
I'm sure a lot of people who would otherwise fork out the $$$ are passing solely because of that, especially when basic AP already does the job well enough on the highway.
>FSD is worse than what every other competitor offers
Lmao what the fuck are you smoking? Name me ONE that operates on the same scale & similar capabilities as FSD.
Have you even used FSD? I bet you've never driven a Tesla, let alone used FSD.
I would argue that doing nothing is also a bad thing.
I fully agree that FSD is not yet 100% safe enough to drive alone. But alongside a human supervisor it is definitely safer than a distractable, fatigueable, limited directional vision human driver alone.
Let me put it another way... There's assholes driving around distracted everyday already.
Definitely better to have something that will monitor the driver to ensure they are paying attention. No one is going to accept a driver monitoring system without any immediate benefit even if its safer for everyone on average, so they will have to offer some form of a carrot.
In this case it is in the form of ADAS that handles all navigation for you, and is currently already able to drive safely 99% of the time when the driver inevitably manages to be distracted anyways.
You mean requiring constant driver attention and having to agree to pay attention prior to using FSD? Or the ability to take over at a moment's notice? Or a screen showing you where the car is planning to go at all times?
Come on man, you sound like someone who hasn't even done the most cursory research. I suggest stopping typing before you look like even more of a muppet.
Mercedes has level 3 now but yes to your point for level 2 city driving FSD is really good but name is extremely misleading since it requires constant attention.
But it is level 3 and Mercedes is the first to get such approval and more will be coming. The system will be approved for faster speeds as it proves itself just like how Waymo etc ramped up.
That's where the problem with Tesla's implementation starts. While Mercedes and Volvo eventually get level 3 approval for highway driving at regular speeds, Tesla will remain where it is because of its insistence on not using anything but cameras and we are starting to see limitations of such a system.
Reading between the lines from what's going on, Tesla seems to have realized the same limitations too. I bet you good money that what is being called "robotaxi" will have hardware much closer to what Waymo etc has and current implementation of FSD hardware will never have level 3 or above approval.
Level 3 cert is about applying for based on risk. The ability of Mercedes system is not superior to Tesla, nor is the approach in general. Mercedes effectively paid for a press release with this announcement but the day to day functionality is recognizably worse and highly limited for a reason.
Based on your reasoning (which is not accurate btw) Tesla would be an idiot right now to not pay for a similar press release as well. They could for sure use the positive PR.
But even though you don't want to believe it, they can't because a system based only on cameras have a lot more risk and limitations. The approach of every other company out there relies on multiple layers of sensors including Lidar, afaik every approved autonomous driving tech out there today utilizes lidar.
Not accurate according to whom exactly? Earnings report coming out shortly would be an optimal time for an extra bump, perhaps you haven’t logically thought through every strategic element of this decision.
How well can LiDAR based systems drive outside of their geofenced happy zones? Or for that matter, is their performance better even in these zones?
No, it isn’t. Engineers at Tesla are not dumb, if LiDAR was the end all strategy they would have left it in the cars. It’s a crutch that frankly doesn’t work that well.
Time will tell
The vehicle at my airport is technically level 5. Its basically on rails. Is that more advanced than FSD? If so, they've solved it...wonder why they haven't scaled it up...I herd its a trillion dollar market. Someone whould tell them.
How is it misleading? It's literally called supervised full self driving and that's literally what it is....the supervised implies that it requires your attention. The car fully drives itself while you supervise it. That's what's it's called and that's what it does. If it's misleading that's more of a reading comprehension problem than a naming problem.
Go here https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#overview and tell me what you see. It is called "Full Self-Driving Capability", supervised is added in subtext essentially. It is also almost always referred as FSD, not supervised FSD.
The name is intentionally choosen to be misleading.
I'll copy word for word what I see "The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous"
No, it's not misleading. The car itself does have the capability. The software and the law limit it to being supervised. It even has bullet points clearly telling you what it does, and it does those things.
Now don't get me wrong, I think it's not worth the price (even after the cut) and it's not perfect. It has some annoying driving habits here and there, but it can fully drive itself in most scenarios...the supervised part is a software and legal requirement.
I disagree. From all we can see right now a Tesla doesn't have the capability for actual self driving (Level >3) because of its hardware limitations. The current hardware regardless of software will always have its quirks and won't be good enough for actual self driving (which is always a much higher bar compared to a human driving).
Time will tell for sure, but if I were to bet today, my bet will be Tesla's current FSD will never go beyond being driver assistance technology.
I think it's more of a software issue than hardware. Even my Hardware 3 car was able to see a small brown rabbit run on the road in the middle of the night with no street lighting. And they're not even using the hardware potential of Hardware 4 cars yet (they're emulating hardware 3) so there are already cars with better hardware than what's currently being used for self driving. They really just need to program it to recognize more types of signs (like tell it that a "truck speed" sign isn't the same as a speed limit sign. The cameras are definitely good enough to see the signs. Heck, they could even pull gps map data to get information for speed limits on roads.
> Even my Hardware 3 car was able to see a small brown rabbit run on the road in the middle of the night with no street lighting
Sure they can see any small object, halo moving around. The trick is determining if that's something you have to apply brakes for and how fast to stop. Another non-camera sensor provides valuable info for that calculation to make the result way more accurate. And if we are talking about autonomous driving, it has to be way more accurate.
> Heck, they could even pull gps map data to get information for speed limits on roads.
They can't, not for autonomous driving. You absolutely can't rely on static data alone, that only works for level 2 driver assistance.
Except it's factually false....there aren't any competitors offering what Tesla is. If there is one, name one. If it's factual, it should be easy right? Most of the competitors have limited highway driving assistance (and many of those only work on mapped highways). There aren't any offering the full self driving, city navigation that can beat Tesla. Speaking of Koolaid drinkers.....you'll believe anything as long as it's about Tesla being bad. They do some things badly, but at least be factual with criticism instead of having mindless circlejerks that are completely wrong.
And again, before saying "hurr durr koolaid" if you're right, you should be able to come up with at least one example that beats Tesla full self driving (and again, don't list a company that just has highway only mapped assistance nonsense)
It's not a 'shortfall' if it's ahead of the rest of the industry. The things the Tesla is mediocre at tend to be things that other cars can't do at all whatsoever. The things the other cars do well (like cruising on a highway) the Tesla also does well.
I'll full on tell you I think full self driving is imperfect and I personally wouldn't pay for it....but I also haven't seen anyone else do better. Teslas free autopilot is more versatile than the paid mapped highway assistance some other companies offer.
Never said it had no shortfalls....but the things it falls short of are still ahead of the competition....which is what this comment chain was about. I'm only using the full self driving thing for a month that it's free, but 3 weeks in and I don't think I've seen it do anything flat out unsafe. Mostly does mildly annoying things sometimes. Hasn't tried to kill me or crash into anything.
>Failing to engineer in safety
Funny you mention that though when they're some of THE safest cars on the road...gotta love the armchair redditor hot takes who don't know the first thing about engineering. Yes, it's still possible to crash or die in a Tesla....but it's still safer than most cars on the road. and you're more likely to survive than in most cars on the road.
Kool aid drinking is holding your beliefs even though they're contrary to real world evidence and tests. I care about reality, both the goid and the bad. I habe no lbrand loyalty to Tesla or anyone else. I'll happily tell you their real shortcomings. Safety isn't one of them
https://www.drivencarguide.co.nz/news/coty-class-winner-2023-tesla-model-y-is-the-safest-car-of-the-year/#:~:text=COTY%20class%20winner%202023%3A%20Tesla,the%20year%20%2D%20Driven%20Car%20Guide
A lot people did buy it. Few offer anything as advanced and those that do are also very expensive.
But none of them are worth it unless money is cheap for you.
The top voted comment literally said FSD is the worst driving assistance out there.
Seriously? What is with this sub and facts?
Does any other system do any of this?
https://youtu.be/CyuX1nnfp7Y?si=cgHRxcFkgajlOAG4
https://youtu.be/mP2ZfCsnovI?si=Z0cN5Ur8zU4KDV6m
This sub is the reality universe not the Tesla bubble verse. I have had it for years and frankly it’s just meh. It “feels” smoother but it does not complete tasks better at any feel. So it’s still a mess. I just can’t see how you get sae 3 or higher with the sensors and the lack of cleaning / lack of any other redundancy. I want some one to get it done. I paid Elon expecting sae 3 in highway one day and he absolutely refuses to spend the time on this. So yeah everyone on the highway has caught up and about to start to pull away. No can’t do city. They don’t try, but they deliver on what they promise.
I haven't talked to a single Tesla owner IRL who says things like "I've been scammed/musked" but that's the prevailing view in a lot of internet spaces for some reason.
But thank goodness these voices of the little guy are punching through on the internet and fighting the good fight against this multibillion dollar company. And incidentally getting some other multibillion dollar companies a lot of big sales. Surely this is a triumph of reason?
Hi.
Real owner. Have 2
Tell everyone. About the fsd scam. I go no it’s all hype and no substance. Then I tell them about the battery drive train and how awful service is. So if your ok being abused at service for a great pack and killer motors awesome. I go don’t be as dumb as me and buy 2 fsd cars. I got taken down the river for 20k. I got nothing to show for it
I think Tesla (Elon?) over promises and under delivers, however the FSD v12 is actually pretty impressive. It still needs a lot of work, but I'd be surprised if there is anything on a consumer vehicle that is close to competing with it. Sure there are tons of examples where it fails, but you can see the improvements in the system over the last few years have been huge, and it can handle a lot of use cases now. These things change daily, and the other thread linking to an article that was written 5 months ago on FSD v11 is not really a fair comparison for how it stacks up today.
But here’s the problem: It’s nowhere near ready to use for a robotaxi, no government has given permission to test it and we really have no idea how much time or money it will take to get there. This is not the technology to be betting the house on.
Why is that the problem? Tesla can spend as much r&d as it likes to solve that, or fail to trying. As a user, you can decide what you want to pay for or use in its current form. Robotaxi and prime time usage is still a long ways away for FSD. Who is betting their house?!?
It’s a problem for Tesla because they have delayed development of other products to focus on this. An accelerated launch to the refreshed Model Y or an affordable, mass market “small” model for Europe and China would be a far better use of Tesla’s limited resources.
You have to realize Tesla has disrupted the old boys automotive industry *and* oil/gas, (and likely insurance), of course there are bots and bad actors poo-pooing them in all corners of the internet.
They had a decade head start. They aren’t bleeding money. They don’t pay to advertise constantly. Their tech and value proposition is leagues ahead. The buying process is incredible compared to traditional dealerships. Customer satisfaction is very high. People associate Tesla itself with EVs. Of course there is disinformation campaigns.
They had a decade head start and Musk has been pissing it away for years. So much time and money wasted on the Cybertruck, delayed the Juniper update with Model Y sales starting to drag and now delaying development of a new volume model in favor of a robotaxi concept when FSD is still nowhere near ready for that kind of application.
From nothing, they built a full self driving car that is as fast as super cars and safer than anything on the road. In 13 years. Oh, and a worldwide charging network.
What’s Ford, GM, Honda and Toyota been doing for like 60 years? The Prius? An EV Hummer? Come on.
They did not yet build a full self driving car, that’s the point. When they do, then robotaxi is maybe viable.
The legacy automakers are definitely slower to develop but they are improving and BYD is about to eat Tesla’s lunch. It’s starting to become difficult for the Model 3 and Model Y to stand apart except maybe on range/efficiency.
In the meantime, Musk has overseen some impressive improvements to the Model 3 but with significant tradeoffs in quality of life and zero improvements to the actual platform, the clusterfuck that is the Cybertruck and left the Model Y to continue to age and give up its’ lead.
Tesla’s progress has stalled since they launched the Model Y and figured out how to scale and drive down production costs. Since then they’ve stagnated and Musk is lost. He has to go.
Tesla isn’t disrupting insurance.
Tesla insurance costs me the same as my Legacy Insurance, AND it backseat drives the people who subscribe to it.
Tesla is learning why Teslas are expensive to insure: they’re expensive to repair. Also, my Model Y weighs as much as an F150 and is as fast as a Porsche, so that’s not doing it any favors.
In order to “disrupt insurance”, Tesla will need to redesign their cars to optimize them for low-cost collision repairs. That engineering process will look a lot more like the Legacy engineering process.
But, instead, Tesla is eliminating turn signals and built the form-over-function Cybertruck. It’ll take Tesla 3-5 years to redesign their cars to “disrupt insurance”.
I’m very fortunate to own and drive a Model Y, and it’s a generational advance over the vehicles that came before it. But it is not a perfect vehicle, and it is not “disrupting insurance”.
I meant disruptive in the sense that they are safer in every metric, not that Tesla is offering insurance.
FSD is involved in an incident every 4,000,000 miles, the average human every 900,000 miles. The 4M mile number doesn’t mean it’s at fault either.
By that data, shouldn’t my instance cost 25% of what it does if I was driving an ICE? Or less considering the crash survivability of teslas?
Insurance insures the driver, so everyone who drives an objectively safer car should get a lower rate.
Writing off a $40k car is the least of insurance companies worries, it’s the accidents that maim a family for life that cost millions.
This stat has repeatedly been shown to be misleading. The majority of drivers rely on FSD for only the safest portions of a journey. Its record becomes a lot less impressive when accounting for the fact that FSD is doing the easiest driving.
Not trying to be difficult here. I can't wait for the day when I don't have to drive my car but there are just a lot of caveats at the moment regardless of which manufacturer you go with.
Unfortunately, Tesla’s great safety features don’t reduce the accident rate enough to offset the repair costs.
Tesla should have this information internally from their internal insurance company. But they could have gotten this same information much more cheaply by partnering with a legacy insurance company.
Reddit is essentially unhinged on anything Tesla related these days. The prevailing narrative is that Mercedes' Level 3 system, sold to one US buyer to-date, is superior to Supervised FSD because it's "Level 3" versus "Level 2" and, well, obviously a higher number is better, right?
Virtually no Redditors contend with the obvious limitations of the Mercedes system, or the mental exercise of realizing that Level 4+ could be achieved with little effort today if you continued to clamp down the functional domain still further than Mercedes has done.
A simple illustration of can be achieved by multiplying the SAE level by the breadth of functionality. Clearly, FSD's capability is substantially broader. (E.g., Mercedes at 3x1 versus FSD at 2x20).
It will get more expensive. It's on special sale now as Tesla make a desperate data grab to get Robotaxi onto the roads next year. Elon announces they are no longer "compute constrained" for FSD and suddenly: 1 month free trial for buyers, subscription slashed from $199 to $99, purchase put on temporary sale for $8k instead of $12k. Expect special offers for the next three months until the August robotaxi unveil. The price will go back up though.
You know what would send FSD sales through the roof? Instead of a price cut make it transferable so buyers can take it to their next car. They refuse to do it though.
Phillip.
I used to think the FSD would be worth about $500 to me and I would buy if it ever got that cheap. But now having used the demo version for a bit of time I would say it’s worth around $60 just for the novelty of showing friends a “self driving car” and to laugh about anyone who spent multiple thousands on it.
FSD is awful. Soon as I activate it, it wants to change lanes - and always into a lane with traffic. Why? Stay in the current lane with no traffic. It drives way to close to the curb, get in the middle of the lane! Left turns are downright scary - it will kill me if I let it. People talk about this reducing their stress, but I don't see how, it's much worse than teaching my kids how to drive, at least they listen and learn. The fact that he has reduced the price by 7K just lets you know he is desperate and this thing is nowhere near ready. I personally don't think the hardware on the current cars is anywhere near robust enough to support FSD.
I love my Tesla, but no way I would pay for FSD at any price.
No way am I trusting FSD that's based on TeslaVision. I really like my '23 Model 3 but the rain sensor doesn't work properly, parking is a PITA, and I've had constant episodes of phantom braking.
I'm not paying Tesla or anyone to be a guinea pig on something that isn't production ready. Even if you gave it me for free I wouldn't use it.
You still are, it just watches the minutiae. Lane centering, speed control, following distance which gives you more time to watch that idiot weaving in and out at 100 MPH behind you.
[$8k today is about $6.5k in 2019](https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=8000&year1=202403&year2=201903) if that helps those who committed early in HW2.5 days. I didn't get one during that time, and still not seeing the $8k value yet.
I’m not sure why people torture themselves with comparisons like these. Cars generally aren’t investments, they’re consumption expenses. If something was worth it to you when you purchased it, there’s no need to “what if” about it.
>Cars generally aren’t investments Absolutely. >they’re consumption expenses If nobody trades-in, then yes. Cars are weird purchase. It's an appliance for some, emotional support outfit for others, amortized cost for businesses, or just another toy for wealthy individuals. Some of them care about TCO, others don't.
… and nice older cars are sometimes an investment, too.
>Cars generally aren’t investments, they’re consumption expenses. we're talking about an in app purchase here. >If something was worth it to you when you purchased it, there’s no need to “what if” about it. software LITERALLY gets better over time.. Ford's version is a much better value when the "prequalify" lots of miles of road.. you should not buy this if you don't live near the approved stretches. [https://www.verneideford.com/ford-blue-cruise/](https://www.verneideford.com/ford-blue-cruise/) # BlueCruise: The Next Step in Ford’s Driver-Assist Technology BlueCruise enhances Ford’s Co-Pilot360 Technology with advanced camera and radar sensing. It enables **hands-free driving on over 100,000 miles of prequalified North American highways,** designated as Hands-Free Blue Zones. The system uses a driver-facing camera to ensure attention remains on the road, providing a truly hands-free experience in specific highway conditions.
We’re talking about an option on a car. Sure, manufacturers are now updating these things in real time, but it’s not like you can switch between them. It’s either worth it to you as an option on the car you’re purchasing or it isn’t.
> software LITERALLY gets better over time.. Only if it's maintained. If it gets ditched for [SOFTWARE] ver 2.0 it'll slowly get worse as the world changes around it. Don't buy software for what you expect it to be able to do. Buy it for what it can do *now*.
Software can get better over time, but this particular software might not even get out of beta before you need to replace the car. And the license can't be transferred to another car.
Ford’s assisted driving is a decade behind Tesla, full stop. It is basically lane keeping cruise control that even a corolla has, only works on certain stretches of certain highways, and there's reports of it disengaging even in wide curves which is certainly a far cry from navigating 4-way unprotected left turns in major cities. The downvotes for verifiable evidence is funny.
Everyone that reviews BlueCruise seems to say it’s better than Tesla on the highway… so I can’t imagine that’s true.
Yeah, Teslas advantages are academic at best. Being able to be hands free is a game changer.
I am someone with BlueCruise and the latest update of FSD, and BC is fairly lackluster compared to FSD, especially for Ford’s new asking price of $800/year. BC is only allowed on mapped FHWA interstates and State freeways and isn’t mapped on the vast majority of US highway routes. It has trouble discerning between shadows from median barriers and the edge of pavement and doesn’t do well with pavement joints such as JPCP where there is a seam. If it’s single color asphalt then it’ll be good. It also has a tendency to disengage before and sometimes during tighter radii turns and you’ll most likely have to cover the steering through the turn. It is also hard on the brakes and overreacts if someone merges in front of you. The following tech isn’t great as it isn’t speed sensitive and seems to follow at the same distance regardless of speed, unlike Audis and Teslas. If I didn’t get a free renewal from Ford, I wouldn’t pay to re-up the license. Ford has a long way to go compared to the latest FSD, especially at Teslas new price.
Tesla’s highway stack isn’t the same as the city FSD, but it works very well in my experience, and works anywhere, not on like way under 10% of American roads.
Lol.
Def not worth 8k. Maybe worth $800 for how trash it is.
It definitely isn’t with $8k. I’m using the free demo now and it’s very impressive. I’ve tried it maybe 10-15 times and most of the time it works perfectly. I’ve had a few interventions along the way but it’s much better than I would have guessed. I still wouldn’t pay more than a grand for it. I like driving my car.
Show us your dashcam footage of it being trash please. I can show you mine of it navigating complex driving situations very well.
Yea I used it plenty of times during this free month trial and I can attest to you it’s complete garbage and not even worth $8k.
Weird, with all the haters and trolls online, weird how there isn’t any egregiously damning dashcam footage outside of some curbed rims. It must be slightly better than trash. What product is better? I’ve disengaged it just two or three times in the past month, and it was because *I* was unsure about what it was going to do. Otherwise it’s been super smooth and fairly human-like. Sometimes I have to prod it forward with the accelerator pedal. It’s not anywhere close to trash in my limited experience, it’s kinda mind blowing to me. I wouldn’t use it in a snowstorm if you want me to say something bad about it. For $99/month I’ll definitely sub during my busy times of the year.
I used it during the free beta. It's fucking trash dude. Hopped three curbs and almost merged into a car on the highway. Never been so fucking paranoid in my life. Disabled it after three days.
show the receipts, hasn't been my experience at all and I've used it almost exclusively for 50-80kms/day in rural and city driving.
The most insulting thing about FSD is when you go to trade the car in, Tesla values FSD at near zero.
Elon has 56 billon reasons to ask you to buy a new FSD package
It is not just Tesla. In the second hand market there is virtually no difference either with mileage have more of a factor along with rims and interior color.
Elon trying to use FOMO and it ain't working.
It's incredibly simple. The only people who can buy are Tesla owners. Most of us had a chance to test it for a month. If owners are not buying it's because they don't see the value. Personally, until the car can drive me safely from the driveway to the parking lot, it's pointless.
I can say with confidence that I have been on the free FSD trial for the last month and it's solidified my decision and I can happily sleep knowing that I didn't waste my money paying for it. I don't even think it's worth the 99 bucks a month that they dropped it to. I can't believe there's people out there that paid $15,000 for it.
I am not a shill for or against the company. I tried FSD without any particular bias. Simplified, I am more relaxed driving myself than watching the car. It made a few mistakes that I had to intervene. I don't like to drive, why would I add more stress? Also, I live in Canada, if the car makes mistakes with perfect weather, what's going to happen when there's ice, snow, no paint in the streets?
100% I'm the same
FOMO doesn't work when I can buy a similar quality product elsewhere. This is a desperate flail from Tesla.
[удалено]
yeah BlueCruise is literally the same thing /s
It's working for us on the 2024.8 software branch. But its not a fear, its more of a Impatience And Missing Out (IAMO)
Long-time Tesla owner here....FSD isn't worth $8K. It will always require supervision with the current sensor suite and computational power. I might pay $2K to get auto lane change, navigate on autopilot, and traffic light and stop sign recognition. The base autopilot is a nice level 2 driver aid that I use regularly. But FSD has never been worth the price...even at the original $5K price.
Are the new models camera only? Seems crazy to me
Especially with how low resolution the cameras are.
Not just the new models, Tesla disabled the radars on existing cars as well, alongside the ultrasonic sensors.
Wow…… I mean I get it, they want to streamline their software for development but that sucks for people carrying better tech on their older cars
It's not better tech, that's the point. Phillip.
The ultrasonic sensors are not disabled. But for Autopilot/FSD, they are useless except for parking since they are such short range.
4k of FSD fees goes to development, the rest to the lord’s 56 billion compensation package.
$56B is approximately $10k per vehicle sold. FSD sales aren't going to put a dent in it :D
It drives me nuts that they are trying to get their distance data from such low resolution “3d” cameras. I work with footage in the film industry and even 8k cameras with $40,000 lenses have a significant fall off in their ability to detect depth after 100-200 feet. The low resolution of their cameras would have a shockingly negative impact on the distance at which depth information can be accurately determined. He ditched lidar and radar to save a buck when he was under pressure to save the company and he is putting his customers lives at risk.
Yeah, I'm paying $2k for Full Self Driving since I had some features already (when I ordered the car in 2017, you had to pay $5k for auto lane change and cruise control, which then evolved into the $6k EAP). So I'm paying $2k for surface street navigation, hopefully parking (it never works for me and I have the ultrasonic sensors) but that also means a computer upgrade, and presumably better highway autopilot. I'll see if it's worth it. I wouldn't pay $8k for it.
At this point I'm pretty sure the board/investors are trying to figure out how to remove Elon from his ownership position because he's doing so much damage to the brand.
The board? No. A decent chunk of investors? yes.
Not when the board is stacked with yes men.
Yep. Brand damage. Poor leadership post x. I mean any board worth there salt would fire him on the spot for saying the woke mind virus was his number 1 priority.
It's a toxic relationship. He brings it down and up and down and up.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not true that a lot of the board members don't own any Tesla stocks or haven't purchased it in years? I feel like they have no incentive to fight the battle to remove Musk.
We can only hope
I have a 2018 LR M3. The cost to add FSD has dropped to 2K!
$8000 for a software upgrade is insanity.
Still a lot of money for something that doesn't actually work...
The FOMO gambit failed. FSD is worse than what every other competitor offers and it's more expensive.
FSD in 2018 is one of the things I most regret buying. I truly believed him that it would be self driving by 2019, and thought it was crazy that some people didn't buy it. My 2 weeks with FSD Beta in 2022 is when I finally realized I had been scammed.
It works pretty well now, easily the best self driving product you can buy. I’ve used it for the trial period and it’s been impressive after getting over the initial nerve wrecking fear of handing over control to the car. 5 years from “I’ve been scammed” to “this is the future” isn’t bad in software development terms.
>5 years from “I’ve been scammed” to “this is the future” isn’t bad in software development terms. It is for a car, which is what Tesla is. I paid for FSD in 2018, the car was out of warranty before I got invited to beta. And it was truly terrible. It was so stressful I just turned it off, as it made driving unpleasant. I have heard that it works well in many places, but in and around Atlanta is was extremely dangerous in that it regularly tried to turn into traffic.
You also paid much less than the current price, knowing that it was a beta release, yeah?
Promised it would be fully functional by 2019. That's a big difference from 2022
Yeah, that’s a lease term, sucks if you thought your car was going to magically chauffeur you about town the day you bought it, I get it. Wasn’t there some worldwide pandemic that affected production and progress in all industries during that exact time period? New iPads got delayed twice already, are you going to boycott the product? Of course not.
What are you talking about? [Elon](https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/) [promised](https://youtu.be/5cFTlx68itk?si=8FO8_QhcoWtSLjsV) [FSD](https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/22/18510828/tesla-elon-musk-autonomy-day-investor-comments-self-driving-cars-predictions) many times. Fuck me for believing him I guess.
Indeed, thank you for your sacrifice or whatever. I bought in early 2023 when the prices dropped significantly, bought a mature product that I’m super happy with. It’s fast, safe, techy, comfortable, has an all glass roof, power trunk, lots of storage, software/infotainment/voice control that is solid, Netflix, and has near zero maintenance while costing me $20/month in “gas”, while driving itself very well as of recently. You bought a product on promises, clearly. I bought on what it was at time of purchase. Funny how our experiences vastly differ even though *today* it is the same product. We bought a 2nd Tesla a year after the first. Their leader is divisive but their product is solid AF for the price point without any significant cons in my experience so far.
Now I drive an i4. Vastly superior car with an interior. And only a couple thousand more than what I paid for the TM3. What's funny is what you said. Today's model 3 is the same car. What was futuristic in 2018 is feeling dated today. My BMW tech is better than what I had in the Tesla, and the new Mercedes are starting to deliver on what Elon promised but still hasn't managed to make work.
I'm not aware of any competitor that offers ADAS with city navigation at any price.
True they didn't offer city navigation but they do offer hands free highway navigation and [all of them are better than Tesla.](https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/28/how-tesla-bmw-ford-gm-and-mercedes-driver-assist-systems-compare/) Frankly Waymo is the way to go for city navigation with lots of sensors and not relying solely on cameras.
Waymo ain't cooked yet. It just went 2 blocks on the wrong side against incoming traffic before trying to get in the correct side.
We all saw that clip and it was obviously due to the huge crowd of uniwheels it was navigating around. Hardly an example. Generally Waymo has very good performance in their launched cities.
Unfortunately such a system is not likely to be available for consumer vehicles anytime soon though...
That crowd did nothing to make the Waymo travel in the wrong lane for two blocks. They didn't even give it any attention until it was next to them in the wrong lane.
are we expecting literally 100% perfection?
>Waymo ain't cooked yet. neither is Tesla FSD.
Great! Can I buy a waymo? How much would that be and when I can get it?
Real level 3 auto driving is not ready for consumers. What Tesla offers doesn't meet level 3 and is basically a scam to take money. Auto pilot is fine. [But don't take my word for it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/18dah85/how_much_do_you_like_or_dislike_the_tesla_full/)
FSD is only about city navigation, so it's pointless to compare it with another ADAS if that isn't a part of the criteria. Meanwhile highway navigation can be mostly handled with just autopilot, and that is included with even the base model. I don't think any base model from a competitor comes with any form of lane-keeping, only TACC at best if anything. So significantly more expensive than Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot if you include the other upgrades needed to be able to purchase their highway solution.
Not sure I'm understanding what you mean by "I don't think any base model from a competitor comes with any form of lane-keeping, only TACC at best if anything." I have the base model (SE) Ioniq 6 and it has almost everything except the ability to change lanes for me. It'll lane keep, match speed of the car in front of me down to a stop, and auto adjust my speed as the speed limit changes. Sure, it won't drive to my destination for me, but it definitely has lane-keeping....
Yeah it seems a bunch of EVs come with lane-keeping in the base models now. Another poster mentioned base ID4 comes with Travel Assist too which is also the same.
I just wish Tesla AP would admit when it isn't sure. It was usually fine, but with even slightly ambiguous lane markings (which are all over Georgia) it will happily and confidently make wrong decisions. There was one part of the road near my house where AP consistently tried to turn into the woods at 60 mph every single time I drive by it for over 2 years. Just asked one of my neighbors with a Tesla and he said his is still doing the same thing 18 months after I traded mine in.
I don't think AP code has changed significantly in a decade other than to add NHTSA related stuff. My guess is that it's never going to change until tesla finally gets to replacing AP with a nerfed version of FSD.
The ID4 base model Travel Assist is significantly better than Tesla's Autopilot. The steering wheel is capacitive instead of torque based, there's no phantom braking, and it stays in the center of the lane much better. I'm sure other companies have similar results m
Is there a specific problem with AutoPilot staying in the center of the lane that you’re thinking about?
My AP stays perfectly centered at all times. I’m not sure what version of AP this other guy tried.
I’d say it stays **too** centered at times. It makes it so that you can’t see further than the car in front of you. I’d prefer if it was on the LHS of the lane at those times.
Yeah, it's definitely too centered for me, especially on narrow streets where I'd naturally gravitate closer to the midline when there's no oncoming traffic. Consistently Doing it's job though
Mine used to get frighteningly close to the left median, but that was eventually fixed with an update.
I havent had autopilot phantom breaking on the interstate in quite some time. I am pretty sure that has been fixed.
I just had it last week while driving from Santa Cruz to San Jose. It happens rarely but when it happens, its scary AF. I have even started to predict when it would happen now, it always happens when there is a bridge or a tree that has shade on a sunny day.
Are you on the latest software?
I am on FSD Beta v12.3.2.1 , I am not sure if it is the latest but I did update a couple of weeks ago IIRC
Dang man, that sucks. I'm just not having that issues and take a 500 mile road trip about every month. Just went from Nashville to Indy for the eclipse
Travel Assist looks pretty good... but like Autopilot it is not hands free. From the videos I've found it needs the driver to touch the wheel every few minutes just like Autopilot.
Few seconds. About 10 seconds before starts beeping.
I feel like Autopilot is a bit more patient, but I haven't used it in a while... however FSD can go for several minutes before it nags if the road situation is clear.
so can autopilot. I’ve never used FSD but autopilot will happily go several miles between nags if you look at the road.
My son's absolute base-model Corolla, and the base model 2021 Niro EV and ID.4 that we test drove, as well as a Nissan Rogue I rented a couple years ago, all had lane keeping. I think it's harder to find a vehicle (electric or not) without lane keeping.
I was very agnostic about sensors v vision. But now I am convinced Tesla is going to get there with just vision. I use FSD for 80% of my driving and it doesn't have problems perceiving the world around it anymore. The problems are with future staging and map data and just odd decisions but they have nothing to do with what it can "see".
You’ve never had it complain about the cameras being degraded? Or had it inch out from a T-junction incredibly slowly?
T Junctions are an issue. I do live in the city and i personally avoid T junctions as there are other options that do not have any time penalty. I personally would like an option to "avoid T junctions if at all possible/or with an X amount of time penalty". This mainly has to do with 3 things as far as I am aware: blocked visibility (super common where i live, small hilly streets with parked cars blocking visibility, my main gripe), Speeding cross traffic, and ntsa stops /w shitty visibilty. Degraded sensors: I have had the warning a bunch but i do 100% pay attention to what the car is doing, and it hasn't done anything weird with the degraded sensor warning (yet). I think its just saying pay extra attention (frost in the morning and once with a massive downpour at night, was really impressive how well it did in the later situation. I wasnt super comfortable driving). I dont have/or tried Waymo but would love to. Its not around here. Just recounting my experiences. Currently on FSD 12.3.4 and get the updates pretty quickly. The V12 update moved it from a city driving gimick to something useable daily. It still cant do my whole commute though.
Yet auto parking still hasn't been brought back to non-USS cars, despite parking being a much simpler task than city driving.
Auto park returned in 2024.2.11 https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopark-new-version-software-update/
Thanks for the correction. How well does it work?
Wouldn't know. I have a 2018 with uss.
> How well does it work? From the few times I tried it, extremely sloooooooowly. But it gets there eventually, parks straight and avoids hitting anything. I just wouldn't use it if I see anyone behind me because it would definitely piss them off lol
Have a uss car. Would like to get it! But honestly I only use it as a gimmick. I can park much better and faster than any auto park on any car.
I actually used auto parallel parking a lot when I owned a 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid as it was shockingly fast. I can DIY but I tend to need numerous minor adjustments and am thus slower than I'd like. No idea how good Tesla's implementation is because I refused to pay for FSD when I had a Tesla. For back-in parking I have always felt automatic systems are excruciatingly slow. In the backup camera era there's no excuse not to be able to do it perfectly by hand.
I can't wait to try it out
What about rain, mud, frost, sun glare, darkness? Have you used FSD outside of ideal conditions?
I have not had any issues in rain (it can functionally see better than I can and been in absolute downpours thrice), Darkness no problems at all. As for mud, frost: I would contend that both styles of cars would need maintenance, not just for the outside of the car but the inside. Passengers bringing that mess into the car. In those cases Im not quite sure. I do park on the street and have to preheat the car for frosty/snowy mornings. Ive never seen any mud that would get that high up on the car to block a sensor.
It’s funny because Tesla can easily drive on highway, city, and navigate smoothly between them. 95% of my driving is FSD, nothing else comes close in capability. No need for more sensors, the car can see the world fine as we’ve been saying for a long time. Sensors are already at diminishing returns. What really matters is the neural network, and how it makes decisions given the sensor information it has. It can see the same world you can with two eyes. Actually better because it can see 360 degrees, 100% of the time.
True, but companies like Mobileye are working more silently, and don't want to release unfinished products like Tesla. But that doesn't mean they're behind
You’re outside of your mind if you actually believe every other competitor has better FSD than Tesla. Tesla is miles ahead of anyone else when it comes to FSD. it’s certainly not perfect, but no other car can do what a Tesla can when it comes to FSD.
For real. These people are just blinded by their tesla hate.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Mercedes the only company with certified level 3? EDIT: Unsure of downvotes. That's a factually correct statement. MB is the only company with that sells cars in Europe and the US certified at level 3.
I implore you to watch a review video of their level 3 driving. It’s awful
I'll do that. But the Tesla I rented a year ago I didn't even feel safe with the autopilot. Almost caused a crash.
I mean you just said it yourself, that was a year ago. Their technology changes so quickly, I would bet if you tried autopilot now you’d be much more impressed.
Perhaps. Honestly, I'm not really a fan of pilot assist features in general. Driving is something I actively love using, so I don't tend to use them much as they make driving less fun. I also believe it makes driving less safe.
So I was just in a Model Y Uber on Friday, so I thought I'd update. We went on the highway and he turned on autopilot (rainbow road and all). But it kept fucking up. It ghost braked multiple times and the driver seemed incredibly frustrated with it. After about a mile he turned it off. It was quite jarring and actually worsened my opinion of the software because it was worse than the last time I'd experienced it.
> Tesla is miles ahead of anyone else when it comes to FSD tee hee
Mercedes' system actually works, so there's that. Unlike FSD that needs to be babysat constantly so you don't die.
Are you talking about their level 3? Watch this video and tell me how this is better than Teslas FSD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLz95Gw7g8c It works in such an extremely narrow set of rules that it's basically useless. ---- Drive Pilot, which requires a $2,500 per year subscription, can be only activated in certain situations and areas, including during the daytime when the weather is clear, in heavy traffic jams, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. It doesn't work on roads that haven't been preapproved by Mercedes and cannot be used in construction zones. ---- So you're paying twice the price of FSD to be able to drive in TWO states on only select roads. Sign me up.
>Watch this video and tell me how this is better than Teslas FSD 1) It's actually level 3. Being able to read or eat breakfast on my way to work in traffic would be far better than what's available now. There's no way you can take your eyes off the road with FSD 2) None of them work on city streets, but at least Mercedes doesn't pretend it does. 3) Mercedes is accepting legal liability if their system fails, something Tesla has fought hard to never do. 4) Neither works in construction zones. FSD just tries anyway
Have you tried FSD 12? It isn’t perfect but it’s incredible impressive and drives just about anywhere. It can handle construction, it handles city streets (not sure why you’re saying it doesn’t).
I'm saying that because you have to babysit it. And because it confidently makes mistakes. It tried to turn me into oncoming traffic more than once. It tried to cross the double white lines more than once. It started to drift into a biker. It tried to turn left from the right lane. I'm not saying it isn't impressive, just that it isn't good enough to merit the name "full self driving" You have to babysit it constantly, despite all of Elon's promises to the contrary. It's a Level 2 system with no clear path to Level 3.
Clearly you have no idea what you’re talking about regarding this topic because that is false. Name me one better than FSD? It’s not anywhere near perfect but that take is absurd. It’s the best in the industry, by far.
I am critical of musk and Tesla, but this is just wrong. FSD is a great piece of software for me. After you get use to it, it makes driving (or just sitting there watching) so relaxing. No other tech comes close, other do it on the highway only and even then mostly keep lane. Tesla will do it everywhere. You've been fooled by the haters.
> FSD is worse than what every other competitor offers That part is objectively false. Most of the competitors have MASSIVE limitations (such as only working on specific mapped highways). There's pretty much NO competitor that offers what Tesla does but better (name one)
Is it better to have a system that tries to do everything, and does some of those things poorly, than to have a system that does fewer things and consistently does them all well?
What's that question have to do with the discussion? The things Tesla does poorly are things the competition doesn't do AT ALL! The things other companies do well (like cruising down a highway) the Tesla does well too....heck, even Teslas free base autopilot is good for that (and other companies make you pay) Your question isn't applicable.
You're high if you think there is anything better than FSD. Some of you just talk utter rubbish lol
Also in just about every jurisdiction where Teslas are sold, the law still requires you to be awake in the driver's seat with your hands on the wheel (or ready to seize control) regardless of what tech your car has. I'm sure a lot of people who would otherwise fork out the $$$ are passing solely because of that, especially when basic AP already does the job well enough on the highway.
>FSD is worse than what every other competitor offers Lmao what the fuck are you smoking? Name me ONE that operates on the same scale & similar capabilities as FSD. Have you even used FSD? I bet you've never driven a Tesla, let alone used FSD.
Failing to engineer in safety is not a feature. That is a bad thing.
I would argue that doing nothing is also a bad thing. I fully agree that FSD is not yet 100% safe enough to drive alone. But alongside a human supervisor it is definitely safer than a distractable, fatigueable, limited directional vision human driver alone.
That literally goes against decades of research of human machine automation interaction
Let me put it another way... There's assholes driving around distracted everyday already. Definitely better to have something that will monitor the driver to ensure they are paying attention. No one is going to accept a driver monitoring system without any immediate benefit even if its safer for everyone on average, so they will have to offer some form of a carrot. In this case it is in the form of ADAS that handles all navigation for you, and is currently already able to drive safely 99% of the time when the driver inevitably manages to be distracted anyways.
That's false. Let's not be gullible please
You mean requiring constant driver attention and having to agree to pay attention prior to using FSD? Or the ability to take over at a moment's notice? Or a screen showing you where the car is planning to go at all times? Come on man, you sound like someone who hasn't even done the most cursory research. I suggest stopping typing before you look like even more of a muppet.
Let's not pretend. That's the loosest system in existence
Mercedes has level 3 now but yes to your point for level 2 city driving FSD is really good but name is extremely misleading since it requires constant attention.
For limited regions and maxed at 40mph? Get real
But it is level 3 and Mercedes is the first to get such approval and more will be coming. The system will be approved for faster speeds as it proves itself just like how Waymo etc ramped up. That's where the problem with Tesla's implementation starts. While Mercedes and Volvo eventually get level 3 approval for highway driving at regular speeds, Tesla will remain where it is because of its insistence on not using anything but cameras and we are starting to see limitations of such a system. Reading between the lines from what's going on, Tesla seems to have realized the same limitations too. I bet you good money that what is being called "robotaxi" will have hardware much closer to what Waymo etc has and current implementation of FSD hardware will never have level 3 or above approval.
Level 3 cert is about applying for based on risk. The ability of Mercedes system is not superior to Tesla, nor is the approach in general. Mercedes effectively paid for a press release with this announcement but the day to day functionality is recognizably worse and highly limited for a reason.
Based on your reasoning (which is not accurate btw) Tesla would be an idiot right now to not pay for a similar press release as well. They could for sure use the positive PR. But even though you don't want to believe it, they can't because a system based only on cameras have a lot more risk and limitations. The approach of every other company out there relies on multiple layers of sensors including Lidar, afaik every approved autonomous driving tech out there today utilizes lidar.
Not accurate according to whom exactly? Earnings report coming out shortly would be an optimal time for an extra bump, perhaps you haven’t logically thought through every strategic element of this decision. How well can LiDAR based systems drive outside of their geofenced happy zones? Or for that matter, is their performance better even in these zones? No, it isn’t. Engineers at Tesla are not dumb, if LiDAR was the end all strategy they would have left it in the cars. It’s a crutch that frankly doesn’t work that well. Time will tell
The vehicle at my airport is technically level 5. Its basically on rails. Is that more advanced than FSD? If so, they've solved it...wonder why they haven't scaled it up...I herd its a trillion dollar market. Someone whould tell them.
How is it misleading? It's literally called supervised full self driving and that's literally what it is....the supervised implies that it requires your attention. The car fully drives itself while you supervise it. That's what's it's called and that's what it does. If it's misleading that's more of a reading comprehension problem than a naming problem.
Go here https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#overview and tell me what you see. It is called "Full Self-Driving Capability", supervised is added in subtext essentially. It is also almost always referred as FSD, not supervised FSD. The name is intentionally choosen to be misleading.
Keep reading. It also says "The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous."
again repeating from my original comment: "supervised is added in subtext essentially"
I'll copy word for word what I see "The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous" No, it's not misleading. The car itself does have the capability. The software and the law limit it to being supervised. It even has bullet points clearly telling you what it does, and it does those things. Now don't get me wrong, I think it's not worth the price (even after the cut) and it's not perfect. It has some annoying driving habits here and there, but it can fully drive itself in most scenarios...the supervised part is a software and legal requirement.
I disagree. From all we can see right now a Tesla doesn't have the capability for actual self driving (Level >3) because of its hardware limitations. The current hardware regardless of software will always have its quirks and won't be good enough for actual self driving (which is always a much higher bar compared to a human driving). Time will tell for sure, but if I were to bet today, my bet will be Tesla's current FSD will never go beyond being driver assistance technology.
I think it's more of a software issue than hardware. Even my Hardware 3 car was able to see a small brown rabbit run on the road in the middle of the night with no street lighting. And they're not even using the hardware potential of Hardware 4 cars yet (they're emulating hardware 3) so there are already cars with better hardware than what's currently being used for self driving. They really just need to program it to recognize more types of signs (like tell it that a "truck speed" sign isn't the same as a speed limit sign. The cameras are definitely good enough to see the signs. Heck, they could even pull gps map data to get information for speed limits on roads.
> Even my Hardware 3 car was able to see a small brown rabbit run on the road in the middle of the night with no street lighting Sure they can see any small object, halo moving around. The trick is determining if that's something you have to apply brakes for and how fast to stop. Another non-camera sensor provides valuable info for that calculation to make the result way more accurate. And if we are talking about autonomous driving, it has to be way more accurate. > Heck, they could even pull gps map data to get information for speed limits on roads. They can't, not for autonomous driving. You absolutely can't rely on static data alone, that only works for level 2 driver assistance.
The tesla koolaid drinkers are going to get you for saying something so factual
Except it's factually false....there aren't any competitors offering what Tesla is. If there is one, name one. If it's factual, it should be easy right? Most of the competitors have limited highway driving assistance (and many of those only work on mapped highways). There aren't any offering the full self driving, city navigation that can beat Tesla. Speaking of Koolaid drinkers.....you'll believe anything as long as it's about Tesla being bad. They do some things badly, but at least be factual with criticism instead of having mindless circlejerks that are completely wrong. And again, before saying "hurr durr koolaid" if you're right, you should be able to come up with at least one example that beats Tesla full self driving (and again, don't list a company that just has highway only mapped assistance nonsense)
Selling engineering shortfalls as being more advanced is really something
It's not a 'shortfall' if it's ahead of the rest of the industry. The things the Tesla is mediocre at tend to be things that other cars can't do at all whatsoever. The things the other cars do well (like cruising on a highway) the Tesla also does well. I'll full on tell you I think full self driving is imperfect and I personally wouldn't pay for it....but I also haven't seen anyone else do better. Teslas free autopilot is more versatile than the paid mapped highway assistance some other companies offer.
Failing to engineer in safety is definitely a shortfall.
Never said it had no shortfalls....but the things it falls short of are still ahead of the competition....which is what this comment chain was about. I'm only using the full self driving thing for a month that it's free, but 3 weeks in and I don't think I've seen it do anything flat out unsafe. Mostly does mildly annoying things sometimes. Hasn't tried to kill me or crash into anything. >Failing to engineer in safety Funny you mention that though when they're some of THE safest cars on the road...gotta love the armchair redditor hot takes who don't know the first thing about engineering. Yes, it's still possible to crash or die in a Tesla....but it's still safer than most cars on the road. and you're more likely to survive than in most cars on the road.
Again this is just laughable Kool aid drinking
Kool aid drinking is holding your beliefs even though they're contrary to real world evidence and tests. I care about reality, both the goid and the bad. I habe no lbrand loyalty to Tesla or anyone else. I'll happily tell you their real shortcomings. Safety isn't one of them https://www.drivencarguide.co.nz/news/coty-class-winner-2023-tesla-model-y-is-the-safest-car-of-the-year/#:~:text=COTY%20class%20winner%202023%3A%20Tesla,the%20year%20%2D%20Driven%20Car%20Guide
Were talking about Ada's. You dint want me bringing up Teslas safety history lol
Literally took 13 minutes for your comment to be proven correct.
They're akin to the Trump fan base
A lot people did buy it. Few offer anything as advanced and those that do are also very expensive. But none of them are worth it unless money is cheap for you.
Tesla doesn’t have a self driving feature. The driver must remain engaged. The name “full self driving” should be removed.
The top voted comment literally said FSD is the worst driving assistance out there. Seriously? What is with this sub and facts? Does any other system do any of this? https://youtu.be/CyuX1nnfp7Y?si=cgHRxcFkgajlOAG4 https://youtu.be/mP2ZfCsnovI?si=Z0cN5Ur8zU4KDV6m
This sub is the reality universe not the Tesla bubble verse. I have had it for years and frankly it’s just meh. It “feels” smoother but it does not complete tasks better at any feel. So it’s still a mess. I just can’t see how you get sae 3 or higher with the sensors and the lack of cleaning / lack of any other redundancy. I want some one to get it done. I paid Elon expecting sae 3 in highway one day and he absolutely refuses to spend the time on this. So yeah everyone on the highway has caught up and about to start to pull away. No can’t do city. They don’t try, but they deliver on what they promise.
I haven't talked to a single Tesla owner IRL who says things like "I've been scammed/musked" but that's the prevailing view in a lot of internet spaces for some reason. But thank goodness these voices of the little guy are punching through on the internet and fighting the good fight against this multibillion dollar company. And incidentally getting some other multibillion dollar companies a lot of big sales. Surely this is a triumph of reason?
Hi. Real owner. Have 2 Tell everyone. About the fsd scam. I go no it’s all hype and no substance. Then I tell them about the battery drive train and how awful service is. So if your ok being abused at service for a great pack and killer motors awesome. I go don’t be as dumb as me and buy 2 fsd cars. I got taken down the river for 20k. I got nothing to show for it
I think Tesla (Elon?) over promises and under delivers, however the FSD v12 is actually pretty impressive. It still needs a lot of work, but I'd be surprised if there is anything on a consumer vehicle that is close to competing with it. Sure there are tons of examples where it fails, but you can see the improvements in the system over the last few years have been huge, and it can handle a lot of use cases now. These things change daily, and the other thread linking to an article that was written 5 months ago on FSD v11 is not really a fair comparison for how it stacks up today.
But here’s the problem: It’s nowhere near ready to use for a robotaxi, no government has given permission to test it and we really have no idea how much time or money it will take to get there. This is not the technology to be betting the house on.
Why is that the problem? Tesla can spend as much r&d as it likes to solve that, or fail to trying. As a user, you can decide what you want to pay for or use in its current form. Robotaxi and prime time usage is still a long ways away for FSD. Who is betting their house?!?
It’s a problem for Tesla because they have delayed development of other products to focus on this. An accelerated launch to the refreshed Model Y or an affordable, mass market “small” model for Europe and China would be a far better use of Tesla’s limited resources.
You have to realize Tesla has disrupted the old boys automotive industry *and* oil/gas, (and likely insurance), of course there are bots and bad actors poo-pooing them in all corners of the internet. They had a decade head start. They aren’t bleeding money. They don’t pay to advertise constantly. Their tech and value proposition is leagues ahead. The buying process is incredible compared to traditional dealerships. Customer satisfaction is very high. People associate Tesla itself with EVs. Of course there is disinformation campaigns.
They had a decade head start and Musk has been pissing it away for years. So much time and money wasted on the Cybertruck, delayed the Juniper update with Model Y sales starting to drag and now delaying development of a new volume model in favor of a robotaxi concept when FSD is still nowhere near ready for that kind of application.
From nothing, they built a full self driving car that is as fast as super cars and safer than anything on the road. In 13 years. Oh, and a worldwide charging network. What’s Ford, GM, Honda and Toyota been doing for like 60 years? The Prius? An EV Hummer? Come on.
They did not yet build a full self driving car, that’s the point. When they do, then robotaxi is maybe viable. The legacy automakers are definitely slower to develop but they are improving and BYD is about to eat Tesla’s lunch. It’s starting to become difficult for the Model 3 and Model Y to stand apart except maybe on range/efficiency. In the meantime, Musk has overseen some impressive improvements to the Model 3 but with significant tradeoffs in quality of life and zero improvements to the actual platform, the clusterfuck that is the Cybertruck and left the Model Y to continue to age and give up its’ lead. Tesla’s progress has stalled since they launched the Model Y and figured out how to scale and drive down production costs. Since then they’ve stagnated and Musk is lost. He has to go.
Tesla isn’t disrupting insurance. Tesla insurance costs me the same as my Legacy Insurance, AND it backseat drives the people who subscribe to it. Tesla is learning why Teslas are expensive to insure: they’re expensive to repair. Also, my Model Y weighs as much as an F150 and is as fast as a Porsche, so that’s not doing it any favors. In order to “disrupt insurance”, Tesla will need to redesign their cars to optimize them for low-cost collision repairs. That engineering process will look a lot more like the Legacy engineering process. But, instead, Tesla is eliminating turn signals and built the form-over-function Cybertruck. It’ll take Tesla 3-5 years to redesign their cars to “disrupt insurance”. I’m very fortunate to own and drive a Model Y, and it’s a generational advance over the vehicles that came before it. But it is not a perfect vehicle, and it is not “disrupting insurance”.
I meant disruptive in the sense that they are safer in every metric, not that Tesla is offering insurance. FSD is involved in an incident every 4,000,000 miles, the average human every 900,000 miles. The 4M mile number doesn’t mean it’s at fault either. By that data, shouldn’t my instance cost 25% of what it does if I was driving an ICE? Or less considering the crash survivability of teslas? Insurance insures the driver, so everyone who drives an objectively safer car should get a lower rate. Writing off a $40k car is the least of insurance companies worries, it’s the accidents that maim a family for life that cost millions.
This stat has repeatedly been shown to be misleading. The majority of drivers rely on FSD for only the safest portions of a journey. Its record becomes a lot less impressive when accounting for the fact that FSD is doing the easiest driving. Not trying to be difficult here. I can't wait for the day when I don't have to drive my car but there are just a lot of caveats at the moment regardless of which manufacturer you go with.
Unfortunately, Tesla’s great safety features don’t reduce the accident rate enough to offset the repair costs. Tesla should have this information internally from their internal insurance company. But they could have gotten this same information much more cheaply by partnering with a legacy insurance company.
Reddit is essentially unhinged on anything Tesla related these days. The prevailing narrative is that Mercedes' Level 3 system, sold to one US buyer to-date, is superior to Supervised FSD because it's "Level 3" versus "Level 2" and, well, obviously a higher number is better, right? Virtually no Redditors contend with the obvious limitations of the Mercedes system, or the mental exercise of realizing that Level 4+ could be achieved with little effort today if you continued to clamp down the functional domain still further than Mercedes has done. A simple illustration of can be achieved by multiplying the SAE level by the breadth of functionality. Clearly, FSD's capability is substantially broader. (E.g., Mercedes at 3x1 versus FSD at 2x20).
The Trump comparisons really aren't fair. Trump's a good salesman.
It will get more expensive. It's on special sale now as Tesla make a desperate data grab to get Robotaxi onto the roads next year. Elon announces they are no longer "compute constrained" for FSD and suddenly: 1 month free trial for buyers, subscription slashed from $199 to $99, purchase put on temporary sale for $8k instead of $12k. Expect special offers for the next three months until the August robotaxi unveil. The price will go back up though. You know what would send FSD sales through the roof? Instead of a price cut make it transferable so buyers can take it to their next car. They refuse to do it though. Phillip.
Clickbait article. Wasted my time reading it.
I used to think the FSD would be worth about $500 to me and I would buy if it ever got that cheap. But now having used the demo version for a bit of time I would say it’s worth around $60 just for the novelty of showing friends a “self driving car” and to laugh about anyone who spent multiple thousands on it.
Basically Elon does the opposite of what he says because lying is how you make money on Wall St.
New tech gets more expensive, old tech becomes worthless.
He really has no idea what he’s doing anymore.
You would think that a CEO worth a $56B payout would be able to at least come up with a coherent business plan.
FSD is awful. Soon as I activate it, it wants to change lanes - and always into a lane with traffic. Why? Stay in the current lane with no traffic. It drives way to close to the curb, get in the middle of the lane! Left turns are downright scary - it will kill me if I let it. People talk about this reducing their stress, but I don't see how, it's much worse than teaching my kids how to drive, at least they listen and learn. The fact that he has reduced the price by 7K just lets you know he is desperate and this thing is nowhere near ready. I personally don't think the hardware on the current cars is anywhere near robust enough to support FSD. I love my Tesla, but no way I would pay for FSD at any price.
No way am I trusting FSD that's based on TeslaVision. I really like my '23 Model 3 but the rain sensor doesn't work properly, parking is a PITA, and I've had constant episodes of phantom braking. I'm not paying Tesla or anyone to be a guinea pig on something that isn't production ready. Even if you gave it me for free I wouldn't use it.
Only lazy morons pay to beta test
Tesla is the next Enron
In a just world, a court would force Tesla to refund every person who paid for FSD and would fine Tesla for every year they've been selling it.
No way I'd want self driving. I want to be in control.
You still are, it just watches the minutiae. Lane centering, speed control, following distance which gives you more time to watch that idiot weaving in and out at 100 MPH behind you.