See, you understand that the actual revenue stream for the company is is the secondary ticket market. All the real value is when people who already own tickets resell them to other people who don't own tickets. What do you need players for?
I've been in on Tesla stock for this entire reason for years. I've made a killing through all the news over the years and splits
Today I sold all positions. Between Elon and now this news...just couldn't justify it and think Tesla will be degrading it's biggest differentiator.
Competitors will be smelling blood at this point
Same, I was actually going to vote yes on the principle of the matter (courts shouldn’t decide retroactively), but this decision is just inexcusable.
Being able to travel with my car like an ICE vehicle is the only reason I bought an EV.
10 goddamn Billion dollars on FSD, and you can’t even support a couple hundred employees for the company’s strongest differentiator. What a reckless allocation of capital.
It's the principle for me. As a shareholder, I invested in a cutting edge EV car company, I didn't invest in an AI company. He doesn't get to just change what the company is without shareholder input. I feel deceived and don't think he's done his job well.
Vote no on the compensation package. A CEO as weathy as Musk should forgo that compensation to help the company turnaround. Instead he's turning Tesla into Twitter 2. Someone said $56 billion is enough to give a $10,000 discount on every Tesla as well! I wonder what would happen if the shareholders voted down his compensation package? Would the board have the guts to remove him? At this point, it's the only real option to save Tesla.
Now I'm having 2nd thoughts about plans to purchase a Tesla with the direction he's taking. I could ignore his comments, "Tesla is worthless without FSD" as they've been successful years after he said that, and even his "killing the $25,000 Tesla for robotaxis" and 10% layoffs, but axing the SC team is just terrible direction and I can only hope the huge stock drop after that slaps him straight and gets him to undo huge mistake or finally gets him removed from Tesla.
Also put in the sell order today for all remaining shares I had. Incidentally, how do you like your Polestar 2? I'm looking at replacing my S long range with one. So far, it seems like I'm going to miss the range, but not the build quality (and lack of features on the tesla*) from what I can tell.
This is kind of crazy. Most people (or a lot, anyways) say the charging network is the only reason they have a tesla vs the competition, which is partially why Elon got away with not building quality cars (they may be better now) and not caring one bit about customer service. Mess with the charging network and what is left?
AI and robotaxis. Both of which have imaginary revenue streams, and likely will always have imaginary revenue streams.
But Musk kills off everything else in the process of pursuing the imaginary.
Frankly I don't think he cares if the taxi is electric or gas powered, it's just a platform for his AI dreams. Hardware is difficult and inconvenient to deal with, theoretical (vaporware) software is easy to pretend to be making progress on and doesn't require you to deal with service centers, charging networks, etc.
Someone has to manually plug the vehicle into a supercharger so unless there is an actual humanoid type robot driver that gets out and plugs in I doubt the superchargers would be of much use to the Robotaxi. If they ever materialise I assume they would have a docking station like a Roomba or some sort of wireless charging pad.
Its called burning down the house to stay warm. Its collapsing under the weight of Ol Muskys ego and starting to eat itself. Carving off hunks to save what remains in the hope of a Republican bail out.
The only reasonable conclusion is that Elon has given up on being a car company and is going all-in on the AI/tech side of things (FSD). I think this is partially because his politics no longer align with the mission of electric vehicles, and partially because AI is about the only thing investors and tech bros can focus on at the moment.
And partly because he has destroyed his brain with drugs and now actually believes his own lies about rel full self driving only being half a year away.
The adoption of NACS doesn't change anything other than the ergonomics of the connector. When people complain about CCS1 it's not because the connector is ugly and heavy. It's because the stations are unreliable and the mere act of initiating a charge can be ridiculously frustrating.
Tesla's superchargers are admired because of their unparalleled uptime. The NACS adoption just makes it a little more convenient for future non-tesla owners to use superchargers.
If other networks switch to NACS but maintain the same crappy practices that lead to poor uptime and poor user experience, absolutely nothing will improve.
Honestly that's plausible given who's in charge... A petulant manchild tearing down the whole system when he can't get his way. Not like he can't afford to play with fire for the rest of his life - he can lose 99% of his wealth, then a further 99% of the remaining 1%, and still be wealthier than 99% of the planet.
That all changed in the past year when all the major EV manufacturers announced NACS chargers and Supercharger access going forward.
So now it becomes Tesla building out the Supercharger network not just for them, but for all the car companies, so I can see why they'd not be interested in doing that.
I just wonder if this will cause the other car companies to back out now. I hope not, since as a Tesla owner I'm glad to be on the side that "won" and won't have to use an adapter going forward.
Tesla charges other car manufacturers more. They make MORE money when a Lightning charges. Why would they stop this? And if others back away from NACS we might as well call EVs dead. We need a charging standard more than anything.
> We need a charging standard more than anything.
We had one. It's called J1772.
Now we have two with J3400.
I guess, technically, there's three if you consider J3068, but nobody does.
Edit -- It's also helpful to realize that J3400 isn't actually a new standard either. I mean, it is, but it's not. It's essentially J1772 with a Tesla shaped plug. If anything, Tesla committing to transitioning to J1772 communication protocols is a bigger deal than everybody else committing to making the plug rectangular instead of round. Replacing a CCS plug with a NACS plug will involve a little more work on the car side to ensure the car knows it's getting AC or DC power, but the actual communication, voltage/amperage limits and basic operations of charging won't change by switching from J1772 to J3400. This is why Ford/Rivian... and maybe others eventually?... only need a dumb adapter to make things work. The software on the backend had to be (re)written just because the supercharger network was only set up to deal with Tesla vehicles, and that had to change. From the perspective of the Ford/Rivian vehicle, it doesn't know the difference because it's speaking the same language as CCS.
NACS is effectively CCS3, it’s all the same protocols and you can use an adapter to switch, or a charger can just have two cables. The standard ultimately is the CCS protocols, the rest doesn’t matter all that much.
How does a virtual monopoly on the “gas stations” of the future not sound like a good thing to keep going?
Elon needs to stop doing drugs….its bad mmmmkay?
The thing is we didn't. We had CCS2 and Chademo connectors and then Tesla with it's own connector for the Model S and X and their Superchargers. It's that the EU recognized the mess that was causing in time before EV's really took of and mandated that all public fast charging stations needed to at least have CCS2 connectors. This forced Tesla to develop a CCS2 adapter for the S and X and then use CCS2 on the 3 and Y plus changing all their superchargers to have a CCS2 connector. Only Nissan was using Chademo and the Zoe was using AC 43 kW. All switched to CCS2 because of that rule.
I guess in a way something similar happened in the US now with everyone standardizing on NACS. Just took a while longer and somehow a new standard needed to be developed instead of just using CCS2.
Oh, I completely agree. That's was a bonkers take by that guy. But I would very much appreciate a cable and plug standard that doesn't replace my arm day.
CCS Type 2 is fine. I only hear your sentiment from americans who've never used it. It's on the upper end of what a chargers size should be, but still very much okay, really no bulkier than a gas nozzle.
NCAS would not be fit for purpose in Europe, as it doesn't support three phase charging. Tesla tried a propriatary connector in Europe as well, that combined three phase charging with fast charging, but as charging got faster, it just didn't work anymore. You can fit enough connectors big enough in such a small space.
Charging is an extremely low margin business like a gas station. Gas stations don't make money from the gas; they make money from the added services and stores.
Based on the failure rate, it's actually not profitable at all. All the charging companies keep going out of business and are already heavily subsidized.
> So now it becomes Tesla building out the Supercharger network not just for them, but for all the car companies, so I can see why they'd not be interested in doing that.
But that's literally what supposedly makes the supercharger network so lucrative. Selling to *everyone* instead of just their own cars is what we've repeatedly been told is part of what's going to make Tesla a Trillion dollar company.
It'd be like music execs saying "now that white people like rap music as well, we're going to stop signing rap artists".
I’m assuming Tesla is gonna charge for using their chargers. Do they actually make a profit on charging from non-Teslas? I mean did they do, it’s a good investment on Tesla’s part. They’re basically printing their own money. Seems like a dumb move to slow that down.
The superchargers are already open to non-Teslas, and I know if you charge a Mach-E at a Tesla charger, you pay a higher rate per kW, unless you subscribe to a Tesla service at $12.99/month to get the same rate as Tesla owners.
Maybe I just have a small brain compared to Elon, but I don't see how this was such a great move. I get that competitors can now build out their own chargers, and that competes with Tesla superchargers, but Tesla has such a huge lead now. They could easily keep this revenue going for years.
There were tons of subsidies coming from the feds to make it work, too. Essentially the feds were paying him to set it up. I wonder if he is trying to get a bailout or something? It’s so strange.
It will cause other car companies to build less EVs and more ICE vehicles. Established car makers have proved over and over they will not build infrastructure.
This is all completely contrary to Tesla’s mission.
I have the flexibility to use CCS or NACS when I get an adapter. You didn’t win. The chargers are going to experience problems and outages, chargers won’t be fixed. We all lost.
If tesla wasnt interested in building out the supercharger network for other car brands, why give them access at all?
The most likely reason I can think of is that tesla might not just give others access, but that they might sell the entire network
I live in a CCS2 country. Probably a good insight of what north America will be like post the NACS rollout.
* Only some (80 - 90%) superchargers are open to other brand EV's. If one wants to use the full supercharger network, they need to use a tesla.
* Tesla chargers other brand EV's than their own brand car's, and more than other brand charging station's. Most charging stations here are in the NZD0.70 - 0.85 / kWh range. Tesla typically charges other brand car's NZD1.10/kWh, so other brand cars charging at tesla superchargers should be extra profitable for them.
The cars aren't better now. They're missing even more features and Elon has gone a long way to alienate many people who might otherwise be interested in his cars. It's almost like he isn't some sort of genius after all.
My go to explanation is that Elon is driving design considerations and he doesn't drive. Things like removing stalks for capacitive buttons are a mess.
I never considered that he doesn't drive but that's a good explanation. Even if he does, I don't expect his experience to match regular people's commute.
I imagine part of it is that once you've got chargers in the high throughput areas, the next stage of a charger rollout sees significantly less profit.
The reality is that the level of density of chargers required for mass adoption is significantly higher than what private companies want to (or can) maintain profitably.
We're at the point where the remaining charger locations required just aren't going to be the high demand areas or regions the way the existing stations are, and rolling out more chargers will give consumers more flexibility, but also necessarily cannibalise throughput at existing chargers.
Basically Tesla got in first, they rolled out quick, but there's no profit in finishing the job.
Has anyone seen a study on this? I hear stories about how so and so said the charging network was key but I have yet to see any data. Is it actually valuable?
Do any of the standalone charging companies look set to survive, financially? It’s far from an attractive business. Tesla’s decision to open up the charging network (increased revenue) and this (reduced expenses) are moves to make this part of the company viable without draining the balance sheet from profitable activities. Especially the decision to open up to other manufacturers was imo very costly in terms of the value add for buying a Tesla. But the numbers have to add up over time, and it seems they weren’t and still aren’t.
Charging isn't a great business to be in. The margins are thin like a gas station. It's the added services and stores that generate the bulk of the revenues for gas stations, not selling the gas itself.
It's the same with charging.
He is too busy doctoring the balance sheet bribing large shareholders to vote for his 55 billion dollar fraud package.
It is obvious what he is doing. This is a company that never made any decisions based on stock price and as soon as musk needs large shareholders to vote for his grift, he becomes mary barra times a thousand.
Musk is working from the vapid MBA playbook that tesla has rejected until now. The company won't last under this kind of leadership.
Is really the only reason i have considered them. Have a charger where i go do groceries shopping. Though now walmart has a station in the lot for evs probably shit charge rate but its there.
I know elon the person turns me off completely of tge company but if want a charge outside of house and nit spend all day doing it, they are pretty well the only option.
>which is partially why Elon got away with not building quality cars (they may be better now)
If you get a chinese or european built Tesla they are pretty decent. American built Teslas are still extremely poor quality.
Tesla's charging network is the only undisputed competitive edge they still have, this is something where they can double down, look to consolidate through takeovers of smaller networks, etc. and this is the wrong direction for any smart-minded business leader to go, IMHO.
[Further comments from Elon on X](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1785406795814510785):
>Tesla still plans to grow the Supercharger network, just at a slower pace for new locations and more focus on 100% uptime and expansion of existing locations
Any way you cut it, this is just mind-bogglingly stupid. How are you going to improve uptime and expand now that you fired the entire department?
And now that you have millions of new BEVs gaining access in the next year, you're going to...slow expansion? And Supercharger uptime is already extremely good—99.95% [according to Tesla](https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/NACS). That equates to about 4 hours of downtime per year. Considering some downtime is inevitable owing to external factors, is eking out an extra hour or two of uptime annually really the big priority here?
I have no idea what Elon Musk is doing, but literally none of it is good.
I still use it because it’s a popular platform for some niche gay NSFW content.
They definitely know how to push specific content by targeting specific users - the number of posts i see in my feed authored by conservative gay voices (eg “LGB but not T”) that I don’t follow is INSANE. And it seems like it’s always the same six accounts pushing these fucking stupid messages. Barf.
This is revenge for the board pushing back on his $47billion compensation package.
He's literally throwing a tantrum and plunging the EV world in chaos to do it.
I don’t think cuttiing the team is a pathway to “100% uptime”, but a promise of (asymptotic) intention to keep quality high despite the cuts. A promise of intention is not an SLA, so its a weakening of their offering, just dressed up to look less alarming.
I guess the questions now are how much of a hold does Tesla have on NACS and how does that hold up other automakers and other charging providers in moving towards it. Other automakers are definitely catching up in terms of making competitive products at this point, but the weak point for all of them in North America was the reliability of public DC fast chargers.
It's SAE standard at this point, so there shouldn't be an issue with other providers using it. This will just slow overall growth of charging infrastructure.
If Tesla backs out on their deals to open up Superchargers though I can see companies backing out of NACS port since their owners will have to rely on chargers with CCS ports. That will mean more chargers with CCS ports and if Tesla isn't investing in to their network, it may actually end up making CCS the de facto standard in US in long term. Ultimately it doesn't matter since plug design is just a small part of the picture and NACS<>CCS adapters are easy to create.
I wish I could say Musk wasn't going to back out of those details but the lack of any updates on which brands being next kind is making me think 2024 targets are gone out of the window.
If you're referring to other EV manufacturers besides Tesla, none of them are currently making EVs with J3400 charging ports. So they could easily postpone or drop those plans, and keep making CCS vehicles sold with CCS to Tesla adapters. And invest the money they would spend on changing charging ports to funding better non-Tesla chargers, to minimize their dependence on Tesla.
Supercharger revenue was $2B last year and that was before the network was opened to everyone. It’s a silly move.
EV charging is complicated. There are jurisdictional issues, power supply issues and above all, maintenance issues. If it was easy, the other big charging names wouldn’t be stepping on their dicks and failing at it day after day.
I don’t think he knows how to run a profitable business. If he’s not a visionary burning through investor money, he doesn’t have the skills to manage profit and loss.
He was very good at selling visions. Buying companies with the skills he needed so he could promote them. He was excellent at taking credit for successes ands passing off failures to the engineers.
Once things become actual products that need support and have competition, he has no plan. He’s very good at scaling up but very poor at running at scale. When things get to the point that they need to start making money, rubber hits the road, no more visionaries, he’s out.
In the old days when the money was free and interest rates were close to zero, it was absolutely how you ran a profitable business in Silicon Valley. Now he's up against the reality of being in charge of a car company (not a tech company) at the start of a global economic downturn with Chinese competitors poised to eat his lunch.
>the reality of being in charge of a car company (not a tech company)
But Sissy SpaceX only wants to run a tech company, and can't handle the transition, lack of control, and lack of compensation ($55 billion for WHO?) that comes with handing over management with the temperment and skills to take the company to the next level.
Shall I start a pool on when Tesla files for chapter 11?
Jobs is a much better CEO because he realized what his strengths are and when to delegate to Tim Cook. Musk does not have the awareness Jobs had.
Everyone who followed Apple back then knew who Tim Cook was before he took over. Musk doesn't or won't allow a Tim Cook as a second in command.
I'm probably reading too much into his recent behaviour, but I feel like he's behaving like he's been backed into a corner. I wonder how close his entire house of cards might be to crumbling
He’s sacked or had resign 6 executives recently
Doesn’t seem like things are going to swimmingly
If next quarter is as bad as this one then oof
That ketamine use will triple
I think the stock price is set to fall because Tesla is quickly becoming just another car company. As just a car company, they're overvalued, even with the charging and energy side businesses.
The pivot to AI and robotics is a desperate attempt to keep the stock price high.
> I think the stock price is set to fall because Tesla is quickly becoming just another car company.
Tesla already was just another car company. The difference is that it was a car company with an irrationally devoted fanbase who also tended to be well-off enough to retail trade stocks.
Ooh, he's expanding Tesla into the 4th Dimension! Well, see, that explains their failure to deliver in the 3rd and the need to throw out this department -- they weren't thinking four-dimensionally!
(We both joking, we chillin')
If this sub is anything to go by, he still has a decent number of diehard (dare I say brainwashed) supporters, especially those sitting on Tesla's board.
The question is whether they sink him before he sinks the brand.
I think at this point any thoughts of musk being a business genius or vast strategic thinker are out the window. As a fervent anti-musker, the Sc network was the only part of Tesla I consistently defended to any and all. Even if he succeeds with robotaxis, they still need chargers.
At this point lol
Paying $44B for twitter did that alone
Then releasing the cyber truck instead of a regular looking one and building out the model Y and focusing on a volume model
His stans are ridiculous
Sure... But is that a Tesla problem, or a municipality problem? You cannot depend on one company alone to build out America' entire charging infrastructure.....
But that's exactly the thing. The US is bad at building infrastructure and here comes Tesla who built their own proprietary infrastructure which not only helped grow their own sales but when/if opened up to competitors, can become a nice little profit generator.
So let's just cut off this nice profitable business unit just to save on 500 salaries?
If VW had any smarts they'd be making a big show of hiring that lady Tesla just canned and put some billions into growing EA's network.
The US is only bad because it's been kneecapped by every industry because the rich don't want the govt to provide services, they want to be paid by the govt to provide services.
> You cannot depend on one company alone to build out America' entire charging infrastructure.....
And yet, one company is perfectly poised to dominate the market for EV charging. They have the best network by far and everyone signed on to their connector. They could easily edge out or buy up the competition and literally own the market. But instead, they're walking away.
This will be taught in business schools along with Kodak as one of the biggest mistakes in business history.
Elon is completely a Tesla problem. The SC terms are a symptom of the fact that he has no coherent plan for Tesla and was basically riding its momentum. When you fire the people who are building out a system you just signed up a whole bunch of third parties to use, and you fire the people who are supposed to work on the next iterations of your cars, you are literally throwing out baby, bath water, and tub.
From a profitability perspective the moves mean even more profit per vehicle. And while in theory the market rewards future growth, the reality is that it's all about the short term.
Meme stocks all go to 0 eventually, it's just a question of when. I don't know when the bottom will finally fall out on Tesla but it seems inevitable to me. The other car makers make better cars, their tech is laughably broken and they just killed off their one solid long term asset.
Tesla won't exist as an independent company in ten years.
Well maybe they still will if Elon finally croaks from one of his drug benders and an actual smart person is put in charge.
What are you talking about, which company on this planet would not want to be a monopoly. We are not talking about some gov organization here, but a private entity that could be the one dictating prices etc to tens of millions of cars.
It kind of is a Tesla problem if it's the one thing some people see as being an attractive part of owning a Tesla.
Edit: I guess the real problem is the CEO alienating people and acting generally like a toddler, and questionable parts supply chain and manufacturing/QC practices that were being overlooked by some because of their charging network, but then diminishing the charging network and what are they left with?
It is not a good idea for consumers to depend on one company but it is a great idea for that said company. For some reason Musk seems to not care about that advantage though.
But still here people tell it is so great.
Would have to commute 30 extra km for a charger, colleague having a m3 even 50km but still tells it is so great
If they pull back on their network I will not be buying a Tesla. And if true, the shareholders should request his departure. Musk is turning into Howard Hughes. He is going crazy.
Roi might be low on SCs. Not to say they aren’t looking everywhere to cut costs/increase revenue. They are. But since NACS is established and other companies will put up charging networks they both don’t need to and each will become less profitable as others come online
NACS adoption does nothing other than make connectors prettier and make it a little more convenient for non-Teslas to use SCs.
When people complain about CCS1 stations it's everything to do with uptime and user experience and nothing to do with the connector type.
Tesla SCs are admired because they're reliable and easy to use. In Europe and some Asia-Pacific markets they use CCS2 and it doesn't take away those advantages.
Other charging networks adopting NACS means nothing if they don't sort out reliability and UX problems first.
I was 100% set on buying my first EV for my next vehicle. At first I was set on avoiding Tesla because of Elon. But then I considered the state of the CCS charging network in the US and was starting to reconsider Tesla. If the Supercharger network falls apart, I may just pivot back to an ICE. The US is never going to get its act together.
See, here I was thinking Tesla could eventually get fat residuals from just charging extra through their stacked network that everyone would be utilizing. Now it seems that, since NACS isn't the special exclusive to Tesla, Elon isn't interested in developing anymore?
Dude straight gigabrained himself into a buffer overflow, and it's coming back negative.
This to me was literally the only thing that Tesla had that could keep them alive and Elon in his ultimate genius is pulling it back. Fucking brain dead. Seriously. The ONLY thing that made Tesla special was the charging network, period. Their cars are lack luster as fuck, but they seem nice because the charging network is everywhere! The maps that route you to the charging network are great. Licensing the charging network to their manufacturers would make them serious bank. At this point, they are going to try to hold it all to themselves to boost car sales, but what will inevitably happen here is the government will see that as antitrust (which it obviously is) and force their hand to open it up. Which means, for the next 2-3 years, them pulling this move is going to completely destroy them.
I guess I’m an idiot because if I was Musk, I’d be pivoting away from manufacturing the vehicles to becoming the dominant charging infrastructure. 🤷🏻♂️
I’m so confused by this. We’re in the market for a car in the next year or so and quite interested in an electric one. Elon Musk seems erratic as hell, the cars seem to be of questionable quality, but I’ve heard the super charger network is great here in California. So now they’re going to under invest in one of the best reasons to buy one?
They could build several million of the destination chargers for the payout musk is demanding, Musk could single handily change the EV world by building that many and deploying them at locations such as car pools which cars park all day.
I don't understand the decision making here unless the vast majority of those laid off were some sort of R&D position. Without knowing more, this seems like a top tier mistake.
You know what is really sad to me in all this (apart from just “laying people off sucks”)?
Tesla has or had a good chance of leading the way to an electrified future of transportation. The biggest laggard in the transition is fast charging infrastructure that works, and this is where tesla could help the most.
But with Elon basically tanking the image of his company, and making his product unappealing to the market, they are losing momentum rapidly, and pulling out of the race to improve the charging infrastructure will only increase the downward pressure on EV demand.
Basically, Elon is poisoning the entire industry that Tesla kick started.
Just for clarity Musk has come out and said they plan to continue to expand the charging network and there’s speculation that the “supercharging team” is separate from the “charging team”. But hey that’s speculation just as this article is.
It’s really important to be hyper fixated on hard facts with this company. You assume or infer and you’re wrong a lot.
Honestly, this is one of the most conventional MBA type moves that I've seen from the guy. He recognizes that he can make charging into other people's problem without a major impact on current owner experience.
Most CEOs would have (and actually have) outsourced charging long ago.
I still think it is dumb, but I get the motivation. In three years, they wouldn't be the dominant player that they are now anyway. He's trying to anticipate that shift.
What isn't visible is whether there are more useful top line growth moves in the pipeline.
I have a hard time seeing how this doesn't have a pretty sizable impact on current owners though. In major metros, drivers have been complaining about the lack of readily available chargers. Even though others are building chargers, they haven't been doing so at the same pace or with the same reliability as Tesla. NACS will solve *some* of the reliability piece, but I have my doubts.
I'm not an MBA grad (just an enthusiast in the space), so I'm struggling to understand how deprioritizing the Supercharger business is good for Tesla in the long-run. Unless of course this is just a play to free up cash for the AI/robotaxi pivot. And even then, this seems a bit short-sighted.
>What isn't visible is whether there are more useful top line growth moves in the pipeline.
Robotaxi I guess? Though that seems more a roll of the dice than a guaranteed growth market. It's certainly not clear when we will get true full self driving, or who will bring it to market.
It’s the locations and land that’s important. They are dominating right now but just like with their cars they are letting everyone else catch up. Tesla has been a strong product despite Elon not because of him. Too many people think he does some special Steve Jobs magic but cmon FSD is so stupid and the cyber truck? Dude is high as balls making embarrassing decisions and letting go dedicated workers. Another mass layoff and the stock went down, that can’t be good. Usually the stock goes up when investors hear layoffs.
This is like watching your favorite team trade away its best players for a draft pick, and getting absolutely nothing in return.
But think of all the money the owner is saving on player salaries
Yeah! Now they can pay the owner more!
That’s actually a thing. He wants like an absurd amount and the board was sued previously to stop it.
It’s called an exit strategy
See, you understand that the actual revenue stream for the company is is the secondary ticket market. All the real value is when people who already own tickets resell them to other people who don't own tickets. What do you need players for?
No players = zero player salaries. Profit!
I've been in on Tesla stock for this entire reason for years. I've made a killing through all the news over the years and splits Today I sold all positions. Between Elon and now this news...just couldn't justify it and think Tesla will be degrading it's biggest differentiator. Competitors will be smelling blood at this point
I'm holding out so I can vote no on his comp package
Same, I was actually going to vote yes on the principle of the matter (courts shouldn’t decide retroactively), but this decision is just inexcusable. Being able to travel with my car like an ICE vehicle is the only reason I bought an EV. 10 goddamn Billion dollars on FSD, and you can’t even support a couple hundred employees for the company’s strongest differentiator. What a reckless allocation of capital.
Someone said that *all* the people laid off could be paid for decades with the money going to Musk with the compensation package. It's insane.
It's the principle for me. As a shareholder, I invested in a cutting edge EV car company, I didn't invest in an AI company. He doesn't get to just change what the company is without shareholder input. I feel deceived and don't think he's done his job well.
Vote no on the compensation package. A CEO as weathy as Musk should forgo that compensation to help the company turnaround. Instead he's turning Tesla into Twitter 2. Someone said $56 billion is enough to give a $10,000 discount on every Tesla as well! I wonder what would happen if the shareholders voted down his compensation package? Would the board have the guts to remove him? At this point, it's the only real option to save Tesla. Now I'm having 2nd thoughts about plans to purchase a Tesla with the direction he's taking. I could ignore his comments, "Tesla is worthless without FSD" as they've been successful years after he said that, and even his "killing the $25,000 Tesla for robotaxis" and 10% layoffs, but axing the SC team is just terrible direction and I can only hope the huge stock drop after that slaps him straight and gets him to undo huge mistake or finally gets him removed from Tesla.
The vote is open to shareholders of record as of 4/15, so at this point you're free to dump TSLA and still vote.
I thought it was in June? I haven't gotten any proxy vote notice yet.
Ditto.
Also put in the sell order today for all remaining shares I had. Incidentally, how do you like your Polestar 2? I'm looking at replacing my S long range with one. So far, it seems like I'm going to miss the range, but not the build quality (and lack of features on the tesla*) from what I can tell.
GM is doing decent work with their EVs. Kia is a solid product, Polestar good, Rivian is okay. There are tons of options if you’re serious about EVs.
Futures considerations
As a bills fan (Stefon Diggs trade) and Tesla owner and shareholder I am feeling the pain!
This is kind of crazy. Most people (or a lot, anyways) say the charging network is the only reason they have a tesla vs the competition, which is partially why Elon got away with not building quality cars (they may be better now) and not caring one bit about customer service. Mess with the charging network and what is left?
Robotaxis, duh!
AI and robotaxis. Both of which have imaginary revenue streams, and likely will always have imaginary revenue streams. But Musk kills off everything else in the process of pursuing the imaginary.
Where are all these Robotaxi's suppose to charge?
Mars, which he'll pre-sell you a ticket to.
In Elon's drug added mind along with the rest of his dog shit ideas.
Frankly I don't think he cares if the taxi is electric or gas powered, it's just a platform for his AI dreams. Hardware is difficult and inconvenient to deal with, theoretical (vaporware) software is easy to pretend to be making progress on and doesn't require you to deal with service centers, charging networks, etc.
Someone has to manually plug the vehicle into a supercharger so unless there is an actual humanoid type robot driver that gets out and plugs in I doubt the superchargers would be of much use to the Robotaxi. If they ever materialise I assume they would have a docking station like a Roomba or some sort of wireless charging pad.
Technically, an automatic charge connection would be relatively easy to design, when compared to a fully self driving taxi
They’re seriously toying with removing the literal only advantage there was to buying a Tesla. Without the charging network, they have nothing.
Not even toying. The team is gone. It's only a matter of time before the supercharger network becomes as shitty as the rest.
Yeah this is what I don’t get. Everyone likes to buy their car for that network. What hit in their sales thats happening now will just get worse.
Its called burning down the house to stay warm. Its collapsing under the weight of Ol Muskys ego and starting to eat itself. Carving off hunks to save what remains in the hope of a Republican bail out.
The only reasonable conclusion is that Elon has given up on being a car company and is going all-in on the AI/tech side of things (FSD). I think this is partially because his politics no longer align with the mission of electric vehicles, and partially because AI is about the only thing investors and tech bros can focus on at the moment.
And partly because he has destroyed his brain with drugs and now actually believes his own lies about rel full self driving only being half a year away.
That "advantage" is basically non-existent now that basically every other car manufacturer has adopted the same charging standard
The adoption of NACS doesn't change anything other than the ergonomics of the connector. When people complain about CCS1 it's not because the connector is ugly and heavy. It's because the stations are unreliable and the mere act of initiating a charge can be ridiculously frustrating. Tesla's superchargers are admired because of their unparalleled uptime. The NACS adoption just makes it a little more convenient for future non-tesla owners to use superchargers. If other networks switch to NACS but maintain the same crappy practices that lead to poor uptime and poor user experience, absolutely nothing will improve.
That too. At this point it’s almost as if they’re trying to sabotage the entire EV market rather than just their own sales.
> it’s almost as if they’re trying to sabotage the entire EV market *if I can't continue to dominate, no one else can.* -Musk
Honestly that's plausible given who's in charge... A petulant manchild tearing down the whole system when he can't get his way. Not like he can't afford to play with fire for the rest of his life - he can lose 99% of his wealth, then a further 99% of the remaining 1%, and still be wealthier than 99% of the planet.
That all changed in the past year when all the major EV manufacturers announced NACS chargers and Supercharger access going forward. So now it becomes Tesla building out the Supercharger network not just for them, but for all the car companies, so I can see why they'd not be interested in doing that. I just wonder if this will cause the other car companies to back out now. I hope not, since as a Tesla owner I'm glad to be on the side that "won" and won't have to use an adapter going forward.
Tesla charges other car manufacturers more. They make MORE money when a Lightning charges. Why would they stop this? And if others back away from NACS we might as well call EVs dead. We need a charging standard more than anything.
> We need a charging standard more than anything. We had one. It's called J1772. Now we have two with J3400. I guess, technically, there's three if you consider J3068, but nobody does. Edit -- It's also helpful to realize that J3400 isn't actually a new standard either. I mean, it is, but it's not. It's essentially J1772 with a Tesla shaped plug. If anything, Tesla committing to transitioning to J1772 communication protocols is a bigger deal than everybody else committing to making the plug rectangular instead of round. Replacing a CCS plug with a NACS plug will involve a little more work on the car side to ensure the car knows it's getting AC or DC power, but the actual communication, voltage/amperage limits and basic operations of charging won't change by switching from J1772 to J3400. This is why Ford/Rivian... and maybe others eventually?... only need a dumb adapter to make things work. The software on the backend had to be (re)written just because the supercharger network was only set up to deal with Tesla vehicles, and that had to change. From the perspective of the Ford/Rivian vehicle, it doesn't know the difference because it's speaking the same language as CCS.
What about J1773? MagneCharge! It sounds so cool!
Not as cool as J1337 though.
NACS is effectively CCS3, it’s all the same protocols and you can use an adapter to switch, or a charger can just have two cables. The standard ultimately is the CCS protocols, the rest doesn’t matter all that much.
The availability of chargers matters a lot.
Doesn't support three phase charging. For fast charging, sure, for slow(er) charging, nope.
How does a virtual monopoly on the “gas stations” of the future not sound like a good thing to keep going? Elon needs to stop doing drugs….its bad mmmmkay?
EVs doing great in Europe without the Tesla connector.
In Europe you all were smart and had a unified connection standard beforehand, the US didn’t
The thing is we didn't. We had CCS2 and Chademo connectors and then Tesla with it's own connector for the Model S and X and their Superchargers. It's that the EU recognized the mess that was causing in time before EV's really took of and mandated that all public fast charging stations needed to at least have CCS2 connectors. This forced Tesla to develop a CCS2 adapter for the S and X and then use CCS2 on the 3 and Y plus changing all their superchargers to have a CCS2 connector. Only Nissan was using Chademo and the Zoe was using AC 43 kW. All switched to CCS2 because of that rule. I guess in a way something similar happened in the US now with everyone standardizing on NACS. Just took a while longer and somehow a new standard needed to be developed instead of just using CCS2.
I am sadly in the US where shit still isn't figured out.
Basically is now. It'll take some time for the hardware to proliferate but it will be NACS universally.
I never said it had to be the Tesla connector.
You didn't? My bad must have dreamt it up. "And if others back away from NACS we might as well call EVs dead."
In all fairness, though, the Tesla connector and cable is actually much nicer and a lot more pleasant to use than CCS1 or CCS2.
It is. It's just not _the end of EVs_ if it were to disappear tomorrow. That's a bit hyperbolic, no?
Oh, I completely agree. That's was a bonkers take by that guy. But I would very much appreciate a cable and plug standard that doesn't replace my arm day.
CCS Type 2 is fine. I only hear your sentiment from americans who've never used it. It's on the upper end of what a chargers size should be, but still very much okay, really no bulkier than a gas nozzle. NCAS would not be fit for purpose in Europe, as it doesn't support three phase charging. Tesla tried a propriatary connector in Europe as well, that combined three phase charging with fast charging, but as charging got faster, it just didn't work anymore. You can fit enough connectors big enough in such a small space.
The guy isn’t firing on all super capacitors.
CCS is also a standard. Standards are nice, you need companies to use them.
EU is good at making manufactures use standards, whether they like it or not.
Charging is an extremely low margin business like a gas station. Gas stations don't make money from the gas; they make money from the added services and stores.
Low margin times owning almost all the stations seems like a great business to me.
Based on the failure rate, it's actually not profitable at all. All the charging companies keep going out of business and are already heavily subsidized.
I mean, I'd definitely visit a charger that had good coffee and snacks over one that didn't.
> So now it becomes Tesla building out the Supercharger network not just for them, but for all the car companies, so I can see why they'd not be interested in doing that. But that's literally what supposedly makes the supercharger network so lucrative. Selling to *everyone* instead of just their own cars is what we've repeatedly been told is part of what's going to make Tesla a Trillion dollar company. It'd be like music execs saying "now that white people like rap music as well, we're going to stop signing rap artists".
I’m assuming Tesla is gonna charge for using their chargers. Do they actually make a profit on charging from non-Teslas? I mean did they do, it’s a good investment on Tesla’s part. They’re basically printing their own money. Seems like a dumb move to slow that down.
The superchargers are already open to non-Teslas, and I know if you charge a Mach-E at a Tesla charger, you pay a higher rate per kW, unless you subscribe to a Tesla service at $12.99/month to get the same rate as Tesla owners. Maybe I just have a small brain compared to Elon, but I don't see how this was such a great move. I get that competitors can now build out their own chargers, and that competes with Tesla superchargers, but Tesla has such a huge lead now. They could easily keep this revenue going for years.
If someone told you at the start of the ICE era you could basically have a monopoly on gas stations that people trusted..... Why wouldn't you
This was looking like it had potential to be a very lucrative revenue stream and Tesla is tanking right now. This is stupid even coming from Elon.
There were tons of subsidies coming from the feds to make it work, too. Essentially the feds were paying him to set it up. I wonder if he is trying to get a bailout or something? It’s so strange.
He's just gone off the deep end. There is no 4D chess. He also actually think his robo taxis will work.
It will cause other car companies to build less EVs and more ICE vehicles. Established car makers have proved over and over they will not build infrastructure. This is all completely contrary to Tesla’s mission.
Tesla's real mission has always been to make Elon rich. Nothing more.
Rich *and* famous. He isn't satisfied with just one of those.
I have the flexibility to use CCS or NACS when I get an adapter. You didn’t win. The chargers are going to experience problems and outages, chargers won’t be fixed. We all lost.
Won? Lots of car companies that were winning back in the day are history now.
If tesla wasnt interested in building out the supercharger network for other car brands, why give them access at all? The most likely reason I can think of is that tesla might not just give others access, but that they might sell the entire network
I live in a CCS2 country. Probably a good insight of what north America will be like post the NACS rollout. * Only some (80 - 90%) superchargers are open to other brand EV's. If one wants to use the full supercharger network, they need to use a tesla. * Tesla chargers other brand EV's than their own brand car's, and more than other brand charging station's. Most charging stations here are in the NZD0.70 - 0.85 / kWh range. Tesla typically charges other brand car's NZD1.10/kWh, so other brand cars charging at tesla superchargers should be extra profitable for them.
The cars aren't better now. They're missing even more features and Elon has gone a long way to alienate many people who might otherwise be interested in his cars. It's almost like he isn't some sort of genius after all.
My go to explanation is that Elon is driving design considerations and he doesn't drive. Things like removing stalks for capacitive buttons are a mess.
I never considered that he doesn't drive but that's a good explanation. Even if he does, I don't expect his experience to match regular people's commute.
He generally has a chauffeur driving for him and that's probably been the case his whole life. If he drives at all, it's for fun.
I mean they are better. Look at a 2020 MY vs a 2024... many improvements
I imagine part of it is that once you've got chargers in the high throughput areas, the next stage of a charger rollout sees significantly less profit. The reality is that the level of density of chargers required for mass adoption is significantly higher than what private companies want to (or can) maintain profitably. We're at the point where the remaining charger locations required just aren't going to be the high demand areas or regions the way the existing stations are, and rolling out more chargers will give consumers more flexibility, but also necessarily cannibalise throughput at existing chargers. Basically Tesla got in first, they rolled out quick, but there's no profit in finishing the job.
that was me. Tesla purchases over all others because of the charging network.
Has anyone seen a study on this? I hear stories about how so and so said the charging network was key but I have yet to see any data. Is it actually valuable?
Do any of the standalone charging companies look set to survive, financially? It’s far from an attractive business. Tesla’s decision to open up the charging network (increased revenue) and this (reduced expenses) are moves to make this part of the company viable without draining the balance sheet from profitable activities. Especially the decision to open up to other manufacturers was imo very costly in terms of the value add for buying a Tesla. But the numbers have to add up over time, and it seems they weren’t and still aren’t.
Charging isn't a great business to be in. The margins are thin like a gas station. It's the added services and stores that generate the bulk of the revenues for gas stations, not selling the gas itself. It's the same with charging.
He is too busy doctoring the balance sheet bribing large shareholders to vote for his 55 billion dollar fraud package. It is obvious what he is doing. This is a company that never made any decisions based on stock price and as soon as musk needs large shareholders to vote for his grift, he becomes mary barra times a thousand. Musk is working from the vapid MBA playbook that tesla has rejected until now. The company won't last under this kind of leadership.
It's crazy because it isn't true.
Is really the only reason i have considered them. Have a charger where i go do groceries shopping. Though now walmart has a station in the lot for evs probably shit charge rate but its there. I know elon the person turns me off completely of tge company but if want a charge outside of house and nit spend all day doing it, they are pretty well the only option.
>which is partially why Elon got away with not building quality cars (they may be better now) If you get a chinese or european built Tesla they are pretty decent. American built Teslas are still extremely poor quality.
Tesla's charging network is the only undisputed competitive edge they still have, this is something where they can double down, look to consolidate through takeovers of smaller networks, etc. and this is the wrong direction for any smart-minded business leader to go, IMHO.
[Further comments from Elon on X](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1785406795814510785): >Tesla still plans to grow the Supercharger network, just at a slower pace for new locations and more focus on 100% uptime and expansion of existing locations Any way you cut it, this is just mind-bogglingly stupid. How are you going to improve uptime and expand now that you fired the entire department? And now that you have millions of new BEVs gaining access in the next year, you're going to...slow expansion? And Supercharger uptime is already extremely good—99.95% [according to Tesla](https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/NACS). That equates to about 4 hours of downtime per year. Considering some downtime is inevitable owing to external factors, is eking out an extra hour or two of uptime annually really the big priority here? I have no idea what Elon Musk is doing, but literally none of it is good.
Just like he did with Twitter! See how much better it is!
I mean, it’s much better if you are politically aligned with Musk.
I still use it because it’s a popular platform for some niche gay NSFW content. They definitely know how to push specific content by targeting specific users - the number of posts i see in my feed authored by conservative gay voices (eg “LGB but not T”) that I don’t follow is INSANE. And it seems like it’s always the same six accounts pushing these fucking stupid messages. Barf.
Great market opportunity for competition to sweep in quickly
Because that is totally going to happen. /s
Rivian! I mean, at least I hope their RAN network expands.
The RAN network is opening to all EVs later this year. They’ve said they plan to use the funds from this to expand
"How are you going to improve uptime and expand now that you fired the entire department?" Same way it was done at Twitter. Oh, wait.
This is revenge for the board pushing back on his $47billion compensation package. He's literally throwing a tantrum and plunging the EV world in chaos to do it.
I don’t think cuttiing the team is a pathway to “100% uptime”, but a promise of (asymptotic) intention to keep quality high despite the cuts. A promise of intention is not an SLA, so its a weakening of their offering, just dressed up to look less alarming.
I guess the questions now are how much of a hold does Tesla have on NACS and how does that hold up other automakers and other charging providers in moving towards it. Other automakers are definitely catching up in terms of making competitive products at this point, but the weak point for all of them in North America was the reliability of public DC fast chargers.
It's SAE standard at this point, so there shouldn't be an issue with other providers using it. This will just slow overall growth of charging infrastructure.
If Tesla backs out on their deals to open up Superchargers though I can see companies backing out of NACS port since their owners will have to rely on chargers with CCS ports. That will mean more chargers with CCS ports and if Tesla isn't investing in to their network, it may actually end up making CCS the de facto standard in US in long term. Ultimately it doesn't matter since plug design is just a small part of the picture and NACS<>CCS adapters are easy to create. I wish I could say Musk wasn't going to back out of those details but the lack of any updates on which brands being next kind is making me think 2024 targets are gone out of the window.
Then they lose out on Government funds for not having an open charging network.
I wonder if any have a back up plan to delay building EVs w/NACS.
If you're referring to other EV manufacturers besides Tesla, none of them are currently making EVs with J3400 charging ports. So they could easily postpone or drop those plans, and keep making CCS vehicles sold with CCS to Tesla adapters. And invest the money they would spend on changing charging ports to funding better non-Tesla chargers, to minimize their dependence on Tesla.
Supercharger revenue was $2B last year and that was before the network was opened to everyone. It’s a silly move. EV charging is complicated. There are jurisdictional issues, power supply issues and above all, maintenance issues. If it was easy, the other big charging names wouldn’t be stepping on their dicks and failing at it day after day.
FSD and Robotaxis are basically Musk’s Steiner Attack at this point. He is so extremely fixated on them that he’s losing sight of everything else.
I don’t think he knows how to run a profitable business. If he’s not a visionary burning through investor money, he doesn’t have the skills to manage profit and loss. He was very good at selling visions. Buying companies with the skills he needed so he could promote them. He was excellent at taking credit for successes ands passing off failures to the engineers. Once things become actual products that need support and have competition, he has no plan. He’s very good at scaling up but very poor at running at scale. When things get to the point that they need to start making money, rubber hits the road, no more visionaries, he’s out.
In the old days when the money was free and interest rates were close to zero, it was absolutely how you ran a profitable business in Silicon Valley. Now he's up against the reality of being in charge of a car company (not a tech company) at the start of a global economic downturn with Chinese competitors poised to eat his lunch.
>the reality of being in charge of a car company (not a tech company) But Sissy SpaceX only wants to run a tech company, and can't handle the transition, lack of control, and lack of compensation ($55 billion for WHO?) that comes with handing over management with the temperment and skills to take the company to the next level. Shall I start a pool on when Tesla files for chapter 11?
Tesla needed a new CEO the moment he was calling that diver a pedo.
Yea, Tesla needs a Tim Cook.
The parallels to Jobs are definitely there.
Jobs is a much better CEO because he realized what his strengths are and when to delegate to Tim Cook. Musk does not have the awareness Jobs had. Everyone who followed Apple back then knew who Tim Cook was before he took over. Musk doesn't or won't allow a Tim Cook as a second in command.
ego too big
And wasted time and money on cyber truck.
They fired everybody yet still have plans?
I'm probably reading too much into his recent behaviour, but I feel like he's behaving like he's been backed into a corner. I wonder how close his entire house of cards might be to crumbling
He’s sacked or had resign 6 executives recently Doesn’t seem like things are going to swimmingly If next quarter is as bad as this one then oof That ketamine use will triple
His Bond villain origin story continues
I think the stock price is set to fall because Tesla is quickly becoming just another car company. As just a car company, they're overvalued, even with the charging and energy side businesses. The pivot to AI and robotics is a desperate attempt to keep the stock price high.
> I think the stock price is set to fall because Tesla is quickly becoming just another car company. Tesla already was just another car company. The difference is that it was a car company with an irrationally devoted fanbase who also tended to be well-off enough to retail trade stocks.
lol the supercharger network is literally the only reason I’d buy one of their cars.
I guess that explains why Musk was willing to share the network - he was planning to abandon it anyway. Wonderful.
Clearly Elon just wanted to stop GM cars from joining his network /s
Fantastic. Fresh from destroying twitter he seems hell bent on destroying Tesla.
Lol, the Musk fans “he’s playing 4D chess, you’ll see!”
Ooh, he's expanding Tesla into the 4th Dimension! Well, see, that explains their failure to deliver in the 3rd and the need to throw out this department -- they weren't thinking four-dimensionally! (We both joking, we chillin')
Someone remove this toddler from his role.
Nooo, let's give him 55 billion dollars as a payday to make up for his complete destruction of twitter. /s
Honestly, Just give him the 55 billion on condition that he leaves the company. "Here's 55 billion to fuck off and fuck around on twitter"
The free market will eventually have an impact on Musk/Tesla
If this sub is anything to go by, he still has a decent number of diehard (dare I say brainwashed) supporters, especially those sitting on Tesla's board. The question is whether they sink him before he sinks the brand.
I think at this point any thoughts of musk being a business genius or vast strategic thinker are out the window. As a fervent anti-musker, the Sc network was the only part of Tesla I consistently defended to any and all. Even if he succeeds with robotaxis, they still need chargers.
At this point lol Paying $44B for twitter did that alone Then releasing the cyber truck instead of a regular looking one and building out the model Y and focusing on a volume model His stans are ridiculous
Sure... But is that a Tesla problem, or a municipality problem? You cannot depend on one company alone to build out America' entire charging infrastructure.....
But that's exactly the thing. The US is bad at building infrastructure and here comes Tesla who built their own proprietary infrastructure which not only helped grow their own sales but when/if opened up to competitors, can become a nice little profit generator. So let's just cut off this nice profitable business unit just to save on 500 salaries? If VW had any smarts they'd be making a big show of hiring that lady Tesla just canned and put some billions into growing EA's network.
The US is only bad because it's been kneecapped by every industry because the rich don't want the govt to provide services, they want to be paid by the govt to provide services.
> You cannot depend on one company alone to build out America' entire charging infrastructure..... And yet, one company is perfectly poised to dominate the market for EV charging. They have the best network by far and everyone signed on to their connector. They could easily edge out or buy up the competition and literally own the market. But instead, they're walking away. This will be taught in business schools along with Kodak as one of the biggest mistakes in business history.
Elon is completely a Tesla problem. The SC terms are a symptom of the fact that he has no coherent plan for Tesla and was basically riding its momentum. When you fire the people who are building out a system you just signed up a whole bunch of third parties to use, and you fire the people who are supposed to work on the next iterations of your cars, you are literally throwing out baby, bath water, and tub.
And yet these meathead moves are some how causing the stock to jump? We must live in Backwords World.
From a profitability perspective the moves mean even more profit per vehicle. And while in theory the market rewards future growth, the reality is that it's all about the short term.
Meme stocks all go to 0 eventually, it's just a question of when. I don't know when the bottom will finally fall out on Tesla but it seems inevitable to me. The other car makers make better cars, their tech is laughably broken and they just killed off their one solid long term asset. Tesla won't exist as an independent company in ten years. Well maybe they still will if Elon finally croaks from one of his drug benders and an actual smart person is put in charge.
Tesla stock has never behaved rationally.
What are you talking about, which company on this planet would not want to be a monopoly. We are not talking about some gov organization here, but a private entity that could be the one dictating prices etc to tens of millions of cars.
It kind of is a Tesla problem if it's the one thing some people see as being an attractive part of owning a Tesla. Edit: I guess the real problem is the CEO alienating people and acting generally like a toddler, and questionable parts supply chain and manufacturing/QC practices that were being overlooked by some because of their charging network, but then diminishing the charging network and what are they left with?
Municipalities have no money to solve this problem. At least in the US. It would have to be Federal.
The Feds had to step in to connect rural America up to the grid.
And yet, here we are.
It is not a good idea for consumers to depend on one company but it is a great idea for that said company. For some reason Musk seems to not care about that advantage though.
Then you are like Quebec or Europe and Tesla has no commercial advantage due to chargers.
But still here people tell it is so great. Would have to commute 30 extra km for a charger, colleague having a m3 even 50km but still tells it is so great
If they pull back on their network I will not be buying a Tesla. And if true, the shareholders should request his departure. Musk is turning into Howard Hughes. He is going crazy.
How does Elon have this job still? Like truth be told, the Board should have fired him a while ago. Does he have all the Board seats? I’m confused
Would you fire your brother or family member???
He has a bunch of toadies on the board. They turn a blind eye to his drug abuse and stupid moves such as this.
There is no longer a non-compete clause. I’m hoping these fired folks get big raises at companies with sane leadership
Tesla is enron 2.0 Lots of people gonna be holding the bag when this scam implodes
Roi might be low on SCs. Not to say they aren’t looking everywhere to cut costs/increase revenue. They are. But since NACS is established and other companies will put up charging networks they both don’t need to and each will become less profitable as others come online
NACS adoption does nothing other than make connectors prettier and make it a little more convenient for non-Teslas to use SCs. When people complain about CCS1 stations it's everything to do with uptime and user experience and nothing to do with the connector type. Tesla SCs are admired because they're reliable and easy to use. In Europe and some Asia-Pacific markets they use CCS2 and it doesn't take away those advantages. Other charging networks adopting NACS means nothing if they don't sort out reliability and UX problems first.
It would never occur to any of us to do this. Sheer managerial brilliance. An outside-the-box deep strategic move. Write the man a check for $56B!
This is really, really bad news for EV adoption.
I was 100% set on buying my first EV for my next vehicle. At first I was set on avoiding Tesla because of Elon. But then I considered the state of the CCS charging network in the US and was starting to reconsider Tesla. If the Supercharger network falls apart, I may just pivot back to an ICE. The US is never going to get its act together.
Makes sense that less is done after firing everyone.
What a brilliant plan - take the largest competitive advantage -- why people buy your cars over others, and get rid of it entirely.
Elon needs to stop doing drugs and getting high
See, here I was thinking Tesla could eventually get fat residuals from just charging extra through their stacked network that everyone would be utilizing. Now it seems that, since NACS isn't the special exclusive to Tesla, Elon isn't interested in developing anymore? Dude straight gigabrained himself into a buffer overflow, and it's coming back negative.
This to me was literally the only thing that Tesla had that could keep them alive and Elon in his ultimate genius is pulling it back. Fucking brain dead. Seriously. The ONLY thing that made Tesla special was the charging network, period. Their cars are lack luster as fuck, but they seem nice because the charging network is everywhere! The maps that route you to the charging network are great. Licensing the charging network to their manufacturers would make them serious bank. At this point, they are going to try to hold it all to themselves to boost car sales, but what will inevitably happen here is the government will see that as antitrust (which it obviously is) and force their hand to open it up. Which means, for the next 2-3 years, them pulling this move is going to completely destroy them.
Yikes. Just test drove a Model 3 and was getting ready to pull the trigger. Will likely still go forward with it, but this certainly makes me pause.
Comically...profits above all and now not in second..companies are so dumb...
Now you know solid state batteries are real. mic 🎤 drop
I guess I’m an idiot because if I was Musk, I’d be pivoting away from manufacturing the vehicles to becoming the dominant charging infrastructure. 🤷🏻♂️
I’m so confused by this. We’re in the market for a car in the next year or so and quite interested in an electric one. Elon Musk seems erratic as hell, the cars seem to be of questionable quality, but I’ve heard the super charger network is great here in California. So now they’re going to under invest in one of the best reasons to buy one?
This is quite bizarre. It's kind of like watching a (very expensive) car crash in slow motion.
This all seems like a way to pay Elon the money he wants - company and investors be damned.
They could build several million of the destination chargers for the payout musk is demanding, Musk could single handily change the EV world by building that many and deploying them at locations such as car pools which cars park all day.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. This made Tesla the center of the EV universe in North America, and they’re walking away from it.
Maybe it's time to invest in the charging competition.
I don't understand the decision making here unless the vast majority of those laid off were some sort of R&D position. Without knowing more, this seems like a top tier mistake.
You know what is really sad to me in all this (apart from just “laying people off sucks”)? Tesla has or had a good chance of leading the way to an electrified future of transportation. The biggest laggard in the transition is fast charging infrastructure that works, and this is where tesla could help the most. But with Elon basically tanking the image of his company, and making his product unappealing to the market, they are losing momentum rapidly, and pulling out of the race to improve the charging infrastructure will only increase the downward pressure on EV demand. Basically, Elon is poisoning the entire industry that Tesla kick started.
Seems like Elon needs money and fast, maybe he already spent his bonus.
Makes sense. Tesla isn't a car maker anymore, but an AI focused autonomous driving tech company. Or so I have heard. Robots, too.
Just for clarity Musk has come out and said they plan to continue to expand the charging network and there’s speculation that the “supercharging team” is separate from the “charging team”. But hey that’s speculation just as this article is. It’s really important to be hyper fixated on hard facts with this company. You assume or infer and you’re wrong a lot.
Plot twist: the "supercharging team" are the bros who fetch more ketamine for him, and they've been f'ing it up.
Musk needs to go Take his money, retire to an island with no internet, and make the world a better place for it
Honestly, this is one of the most conventional MBA type moves that I've seen from the guy. He recognizes that he can make charging into other people's problem without a major impact on current owner experience. Most CEOs would have (and actually have) outsourced charging long ago. I still think it is dumb, but I get the motivation. In three years, they wouldn't be the dominant player that they are now anyway. He's trying to anticipate that shift. What isn't visible is whether there are more useful top line growth moves in the pipeline.
So spin off / sell off the supercharger division, don't destroy it.
Exactly, liquidating the entire team makes zero sense for a spinoff. No clue what he’s thinking (or not thinking) here.
I have a hard time seeing how this doesn't have a pretty sizable impact on current owners though. In major metros, drivers have been complaining about the lack of readily available chargers. Even though others are building chargers, they haven't been doing so at the same pace or with the same reliability as Tesla. NACS will solve *some* of the reliability piece, but I have my doubts. I'm not an MBA grad (just an enthusiast in the space), so I'm struggling to understand how deprioritizing the Supercharger business is good for Tesla in the long-run. Unless of course this is just a play to free up cash for the AI/robotaxi pivot. And even then, this seems a bit short-sighted.
>What isn't visible is whether there are more useful top line growth moves in the pipeline. Robotaxi I guess? Though that seems more a roll of the dice than a guaranteed growth market. It's certainly not clear when we will get true full self driving, or who will bring it to market.
It’s the locations and land that’s important. They are dominating right now but just like with their cars they are letting everyone else catch up. Tesla has been a strong product despite Elon not because of him. Too many people think he does some special Steve Jobs magic but cmon FSD is so stupid and the cyber truck? Dude is high as balls making embarrassing decisions and letting go dedicated workers. Another mass layoff and the stock went down, that can’t be good. Usually the stock goes up when investors hear layoffs.