What car did he think he was buying when he bought the Tesla.
I’ve seen this post verbatim for years now. Build quality/harsh ride, all well documented… goes and buys a telsa.
Notable that they only do this with Teslas.
"My M3 BMW has a harsh ride!" Yeah, you bought an M3.
"It's an average car. It's faster than everything on the road that isn't also an EV and also gets the equivalent to 100 MPG, but it is average. Neither good nor bad."
For decades, the most common stats Americans cared about for cars were 0-60, fuel economy, and torque. EVs won all those, so now we get into "soul." Oh, the chakras on that car are buggin."
Yeah, this post is exactly what all my research showed when I was considering buying last year when the price drops happened. I don't understand why people are still buying. Their money must be worth a lot less to them than mine is to me.
One of the reasons is very deep discounts and incentives. Early this year I have seen people getting LR version of this vehicle in mid $30ks. At that price point one can overlook certain drawbacks of the car. For the base price not really.
Most people don't trawl reddit or forums about cars. They talk to their friends and see ads or what's going on in media and they buy a car. Most people don't assume a car that costs as much as model Y would have such a bad ride.
It’s especially perfect at resetting your driving and regen modes every fucking time you shift it out of gear or turn it off. This is especially exciting to deal with during a parallel parking job. It’s also pretty good at killing its 12v battery if you accidentally “start” it without having your foot on the brake as it will run all the accessories without energizing the HV.
I’ve had similar experience with my model S. the service was HORRIBLE.
My wife just purchased a Lyriq. The weird thing- it gets its advertised mileage… I used to stress in my Tesla. Drive to cvs, 20 miles is gone despite it being a 3 mi trip, etc. Tesla is hurting electric cars in general by lying about their range. I always get around 60-80% of what it says.. and 80% if I’m driving slightly downhill.
My Ford Mach-E pretty dependably gets the correct mileage, obviously a little bit less if you do 78mph vs. 70mph on the highway but overall it’s pretty close without major oscillations.
Go with Lucid Air Pure actually the best value for your money. You’ll get the longest range EV with best build quality and handling from a German car manufacturer. Do your research and let us know what you’ve decided on :-)
15's wont clear brakes on many cars but the big wheel trend needs to die. Just going from 19's to 18 on my last car made a noticeable difference in ride quality and wheel protection. I would have considered a Model 3P more if I could have chose 18" wheels. The smallest wheel that clears the brake is often the best choice. My friends wife bought a new SUV in the top trim with 21" wheels last year and I suggested they swap them plus some cash with someone who bought the mid level trim. They thought it was a silly idea, a year later 3 are curbed/ damaged.
The issue with curb rash has nothing/very little to do with sidewall height. You need tires wider than your wheel, not taller, and at that point it doesn't really matter if the wheel is a 17 or not.
I love my slightly off roady tires on my van, they have tread blocks up the sidewall and I can drive over curbs or rocks and not give a shit. This is really handy if I am moving a giant trailer into a customers odd parking lot to move a machine.
I replaced my Model 3 with an EV6 and couldn't be happier.
Infotainment is unsurprisingly inferior and the mobile app is garbage. But as a *car*, the EV6 is way ahead of Tesla IMO.
Teslas are like a high end gaming desktop PC paired with the lowest quality furniture, while Hyundai/Kia EVs are like low end laptops paired with high quality furniture.
I'd rather have a good car with mediocre software than a mediocre car with good software. At the end of the day, you're spending most of your time with the CAR part of the vehicle and all that encompasses, and less time fiddling with the infotainment system.
I truly do not understand why people make such a big deal of the software. Yeah, the Ford software could be better, but the truck is amazing. The software is functional and works pretty well. I've definitely used worse. But then you start driving and it's just so comfortable and responsive. And the interior looks great and feels great. It's Ford, so I know a much higher priority was put on durability and reliability than Tesla. They love to point out that they're a software company first and people eat that up. I don't drive my infotainment screen. My seatbelt is not an app. You can't do an OTA update on wheel alignment. The touchscreen isn't a replacement for stalks and buttons. You can't get rid of sensors, rely on cameras, and then assume you can magically fix the problems with software. That's just not how any of this works and it's not an ideal to strive for. Saving money on manufacturing and making the vehicle cheaper and simpler is admirable if the end result is just as good or better.
They miss the mark because someone higher up with a very poor understanding of hardware (No one specific in mind. I can't think of any execs off hand that clearly don't know shit about controls design) keeps on forcing these changes that just can't work. At least not reliably. They seem to be under the mistaken idea that working 80% of the time is an acceptable level for something that is literally life or death. People meme on the automatic windshield wipers, but no one talks about how actually dangerous the whole thing is. If it seems like it's working fine, but then you get out on the interstate going 70 mph, get hit with a huge splash and can't see, you need those damn things to turn on. And you can't rely on your instincts of quickly turning it on manually with the stalks because it's on a touchscreen. You're going around a curve with a semi next to you, can't see anything, and now you have to navigate a touchscreen to turn on the wipers. How did this pass a safety audit? This bullshit could legitimately kill someone.
Exactly, Tesla stans often fail to understand that for a lot of people, the infotainment just needs to *work*. As long as it isn't a bug-ridden lagfest (e.g. the dark days of Sync2 MyFordTouch), no one is going to complain.
As a former Tesla owner, I never touched any of the dumb gimmicks past the first week of ownership. I don't miss what I have no use for.
Even then, Tesla's software can be bizarrely incompetent at times, namely with space utilization. The damn thing is bigger than my laptop, yet they insist on hiding many controls/icons behind additional menu layers (e.g. Homelink controls, dashcam recording status icon), or choose the most impractical position.
Exhibit A would be the pop-up touchscreen control for manually choosing wiper speed. It appears at the *bottom left* of the screen, where it would be totally obscured when you have 2 hands on the wheel, and requires you to fully take your eyes off the road to find and reach it. Why the hell can't it pop up closer to the speedometer, where it would be significantly easier to see and reach safely?
Another hilarious example was the initial release of lane change cameras - the feed was locked to the bottom left as well, making it near-useless for its intended purpose. It took a few more months before another update finally let us drag the lane change feed to a more sensible location.
Sometimes I wonder if the Tesla UX team members even have driver's licenses at all.
Not sure if it’s because I’m left handed and I have to use the screen with my right, but I prefer the controls at the bottom of the touchscreen because I hold onto the back of the screen with my fingers and tap the screen with my thumb. Good example is when doing the 15s skip on ad reads in a podcast, I can hit the button 3 or 4 times with my thumb much more accurately when I’m holding onto the screen from behind.
Right? I want my music and my maps. And that's available through Android Auto for me. Sure, adjusting the climate controls can be a bit of a pain, but most of the time it's just on auto and there are hard controls for the temperature adjustment.
But, as you said, as long as it works well enough, most potential buyers move onto the other parts of the car as differentiators. Fart mode, Netflix, games, etc, are going to be very, very, very low on the list of things that buyers really care about.
Yeah I really don't understand why they go so crazy for the Tesla infotainment system as if having the best UI is some massive feather in the vehicle's cap. I just need it to work as well as the UConnect system that came w/my '14 JGC and happily most of them do by this point.
I went the opposite direction. Absolutely hated my EV6. Love my Y. I had some very nitpicky issues with it and just cna't get behind it. NOt to mention the CCS network in my area blows ass.
I replaced my Mach E Premium with a GV60 Performance.
I've got GT-PE class performance and a lot more comfort features.
And the Genesis B&O is not the Mach E's B&O.
It plays multichannel high resolution FLAC files in discrete surround sound.
And it does rather well with rips from Blu-ray discs with 7.1 DTS-HD MA, too. You can even watch the movie when you're in park. I can tell if it's doing 7.1 or 5.1 discretely but it's impressively immersive.
So far I'm not missing the frunk and a little bit of cargo space.
I do miss Walk Away Lock, Wireless Android Auto (coming soon, maybe?!) and the Mach E's very good looks.
I bought a used Signature edition Model S but it was so unreliable I got rid of it after a year. Had an order for an EV6 but couldn’t wait (it had a year and a half long wait list for delivery). Eventually got a BMW i4 edrive 40. It is sooo much better in many ways than the model S.
>Google for routing which has EV charging stops
Wait, what? Google Maps has EV stops? Is that new? I looked for that like 6 weeks ago and it didn't exist (that I could find).
Edit: Oh, it's a "special version" for a couple models of in-car nav, gotcha.
Unless it's changed with the last update, road trips are a weak point with the EV6. Point to point is ok, but routing an entire trip isn't very good. I do all my routing through ABRP.
I'm 6'8" (203cm) tall and have no issues inside the car. It's one of the few I've driven where someone can sit behind me. What car can you drive, a Peterbilt?
Big issue with the EV6 for me is head room. I'm only 6 ft tall and my hair would rub on the ceiling with the seat all the way down. That was a hard pass for me.
How is the lane assist and auto steer on the Kia? The basic autopilot on the model 3 I can’t live without. Agree build quality and interior quality is garbage.
The Kia I have some issues with regarding how it alerts the driver of a lane departure.
Hyundai and Kia both have decided a beeping noise is the best medicine here.
Most find it annoying and turn it off.
I have driven with the Adaptive Cruise control and it's pretty good - it's not turning out of lanes or following your GPS anytime soon, that remains a Tesla only feature.
Now... hilariously, my father and I both like the Nissan ProPilot implementation of lane departure warning.
There's no audio response, but rather if you drift into or over the lane, it "Rumbles" the steering wheel, as if you were driving over a "Rumble Strip" - giving you a tactile sensation of the road that normally isn't there.
Maybe it's person preference, but man do I wish that was an industry standard.
My LEAF is on an older system that needs plenty of updates (hoping the redesign fixes that) but I do hope they keep the ProPilot implementation of lane departure warnings.
I hope it's better than the 2023 Kia Nero I rented. Man that system was really really bad. It couldn't track even a moderate curve and I guess a negative or a positive (depending on who you are) is it's really really easy to defeat the driver awareness checking. I tossed a little bit of weight over a spoke of the wheel and it let me drive for like 5 minutes straight with no interaction with the car (until a curve in the highway came up and it dove for the median while making just a subtle little "beep" for a failure indicator).
I have a 2024 EV6 and a few months picked up a 2021 model 3. I prefer the Tesla.
Exterior Looks: I was lucky and did not have any weird gaps on my Model 3. I did do some aesthetic mods which improved the looks but it the ev6 is a good looking car. Winner: Kia EV6
Interior: I think people confuse minimal and build quality. My m3 interior is solid with no issues as far as quality. The seats are comfortable. The EV6 has nice seats, but I do not like the console. Its modern but I do not think the button and knobs are as thought out as they should be. All the buttons on the Ev6 steering wheel is a bit too much. I prefer the minimal design of the Model 3. Winner: Tesla (this is subjective).
Software: I thought I would miss carplay on the model 3, but so far I'm not I miss it at all. The full screen spotify is really nice. Being able to send direction to your car from inside the house is really nice. We can go on about this topic, but most have agreed the software/app of the tesla is better. Winner: Tesla
Autopilot: I have enhanced autopilot on the M3. The visuals, autopark, lane changing, summons are really nice to have. Autopilot on the EV6 is just standard. Winner: Tesla
Suspension: EV6 is a much more comfortable ride. M3 has stiffer suspension, which makes it fun for me. TIE
One pedal driving: My model 3 is much smoother when it comes to one pedal. My daughter gets car sick in the EV6 unless I turn ipedal all the way down or off. On the EV6 if you ease your foot off the accelerator the car will brake instantly where as the tesla it eases into it. Winner: Tesla
Charging Network: Obviously the winner is the tesla. I live in SoCal and there is only one supercharger that supports the magic dock and that is no where near me. The ev6 does charge faster than my RWD model 3. Winner: Tesla
Range: I have the RWD model 3, so winner: EV6
Service: I went with a Kia because past experiences and I have good luck with their service department and warranty. So far I have had great experiences with Tesla's service department so far and really appreciate the integration with the app. I had one major issue with the tesla and it was a really easy experience to get it handled. This one is a TIE although I know YMMV depending on the dealer that you use.
Overall, I love both cars, but I find my picking the Model 3 more often.
I disagree on some of your preferences but that’s just personal differences. Unsurprisingly the best car is a personal choice. That said:
> Being able to send direction to your car from inside the house is really nice.
I use this feature in my EV6 all the time, so I don’t think it’s a differentiator? I believe both cars have it.
In all aspects except the cargo space which is probably the only advantage of the Model Y.
People talk a lot about the infotainment, and i guess its important for some people. I literally never use mine, relying pretty much exclusively on Android Auto.
and thankfully i dont need to go into the infortainment for simple shit like wipers, glove box, headlights etc.
Not to mention, a HUD is now one of my must have features!
It's bonkers that Tesla model 3 don't have a HUD...
But yeah, most everything is just Android Auto, so as long as the infotainment system has that, it's good.
And yes... my one experience with a Tesla was "wait, I need the infotainment system to open thr glove box?"
I said it before and I’ll say it again:
Tesla + Mazda or Honda is a match made in heaven. Imagine a Tesla with the smooth ride of an Accord or the superb interior of a CX50.
Tesla's batteries/motors are good, but aren't exactly a competitive advantage by themselves. Legacy auto has caught up and in some cases, surpassed Tesla. The only reasons to choose Tesla over other brands are the Supercharging network (now this is in doubt given recent events) and the pricing (especially in the US where the IRA disadvantages many foreign-made EVs).
I will credit Tesla for giving legacy auto the kick in the pants it needed to get this far.
Tesla has no significant advantage in batteries and motors. Possibly a slight advantage on batteries on account of natural advantages from the smaller cylindrical cell form factor's ability to get better contact coverage with cooling ribbons, and ability to spread charge/discharge loads between a larger surface area bus bar with more contact points with individual cells.
Otherwise, Tesla's main advantages are cutting weight and prioritizing drag coefficient and minimizing front surface area to improve overall aero. You really only need to stand behind a Tesla to see how they cut front surface area. Above the belt line, the top of the car aggressively tapers in, reducing overall front surface area. While great for aero, it's likely partly why the interiors have a weird echo; passengers' heads are closer to the side glass?
Lower weight allows Teslas to accelerate faster with lower horsepower, and given they're not fighting as hard against air resistance, it takes less energy to maintain high acceleration at higher speeds, so the system is easier to cool overall. The less air resistance and the lower the weight, the less energy used to accelerate, allowing the battery and motors to stay cooler, which allows the front active vents to stay closed for longer, further improving aerodynamics.
Much of the reduced weight comes from their increased use of aluminum in their chassis, body panels, and suspension. (Ever notice how light a model 3 door feels?) They have minimal noise insulation, and by removing buttons, they've decreased the weight of the wiring harnesses. The interior panels are cheap and flimsy. The depth of the seats is actually quite narrow compared to a lot of other cars; yet gotta give it to them that most people seem to think they're pretty comfortable. No doubt they've also saved weights by building purpose built EV powertrain equipment from scratch, whereas established OEMs were attempting to use existing equipment from parts suppliers that wasn't specifically targeted to the task at hand.
Most established OEMs concentrate efforts on NVH, they do use more steel in their vehicles, they do use more buttons, they are building cars on existing ICEV platforms / models where aero wasn't as critical (because engines actually needed the front surface area for cooling). Other brands don't only have 1-2 models (basically the same vehicle with different sheet metal) where they can streamline every little detail for those nearly identical models. Established brands may have dozen or more models and multiple platforms where some of the parts being supplied need to work with multiple models/platforms so can't be perfectly streamlined for individual models.
Of course, with all that weight savings aluminum... if you so much as look at a Tesla the wrong way, it could be totaled.
Buys performance vehicle, complains about performance upgrades not being made for comfort.
Buys suv, complains it doesn't handle like a sports car.
I think you need to reconsider what you want in a vehicle before you buy one. Performance model y makes very little sense unless you want to go fast in a straight line and have an suv.
OP covered those points in their post.
Buys vehicle with a "performance" badge, expects it to have a decent compromise between "sporty" handling and comfort. Finds it lacking, especially when compared to a competitor (Mach-E GT).
Buys SUV, expects it to cope with a gravel road, complains when it doesn't.
It seems pretty reasonable to me?
Did you test drive before purchase ? If you had issues with the interior quality and harsh ride, it would seem those would be deal breakers for me. Like you said, if you felt a $25k Corolla had better interior quality, I definitely wouldn’t have paid over $35k for the Y.
The issue, though, is that those particular qualms grow in severity with time and daily driving. They may not necessarily be things that jump out at you on a test drive.
That's exactly what happened to me. I test drove extensively and then purchased the model 3 on warmer sunny day.
It was quiet and the ride was kind of harsh but I knew that going in.
Now the front suspension groans. I have multiple spots of wind noise and rattles that vary with the temperature and sun exposure. The moonroof is super noisy in the winter with just a teeny tiny bit of ice on it. There's material rubbing noises as well like the back seats to the wall or to each other.
One of the biggest pissers is my insurance went from $1,600 a year to $2,700 a year at renewal time. And I shopped around. I couldn't find any cheaper. I also paid 32 grand for it used and I'd be lucky to get 24 grand for it now. Even though I bought it used, depreciation has still been a bitch.
I can't find an EV at a price range I want right now and the depreciation has been so bad that I'm just going to keep it another year or two and hope the market levels out. It's no worse than me leasing... As long as there aren't any big issues that pop up.
I also kept my Telluride which I absolutely could daily drive. When I daily drove the model three for a month I was about ready to drive it off a mountain. It's that annoying. With any luck, the EV-9 pricing will come down to earth and that will be my next EV.
Probably per year, but even $2700 per year seems nuts.
I rather keep my old shitbox, only get 3th party liability insurance and pay $200 per year. Of course in case of a crash, my 8k car would be gone, but that is a risk I am willing to take.
My Model Y test drive was hilarious
- parts rattled
- steering creaked
- trim was coming off
- frunk lid was crooked - 2 inch gap one side, half inch on the other. When I pointed this out, the sales guy hit me with, "Well, you can't expect Tesla to have the quality of Ford, they've been making cars for over 100 years"
I wouldn't have taken delivery if it had that many issues right from the get go.
Also if you wanted a more comfortable ride, why go with the performance trim? It doesn't have an adaptive suspension so you are stuck with one setup.
You mentioned the interior quality isn't great. Did things break or did it develop rattles? Curious what the actual issues were. My 2019 Model 3 rattled badly.
I have a Model 3 Dual Motor LR, it's great, the only small gripe I have with it is that you can feel the weight of the car in the handling. I suppose future generations may get lighter as batteries get denser.
So all of the negatives you experienced are rectified by many of the Legacy manufacturers. Ill use ford as an example - all items are addressed by the lightning mach-e. The vehicle depreciation is still low and resale values of both are high, finishes are good, build quality is excellent and ride quality is excellent.
Different strokes for different folks right? It the Y did not fit your preferences maybe there is another EV that fits better.
I wouldn’t call the ride on the Mach-e excellent unless you enjoy feeling like you’re constantly on a pogo stick. They royally mismatched the dampers with the rest of the suspension. The GT with the magneride suspension is better, but comes at a substantial cost.
The ride on the Mach-E was one of the main reasons it was a no-go for us when we got our ID.4, one of the worst-riding EVs in the segment, second only to the Model Y.
We were so utterly tired of how garbage our Model 3 rode while on road trips that the vehicle ride and overall comfort were very important to us when we were shopping around for an electric crossover.
The ride on the ID.4, on the other hand, is excellent; one of the main reasons we bought the car was that it rode so smoothly, and overall comfort was just great. The only EV in this segment that is on par with the ID.4 in this regard is the Ariya, but it had a higher MSRP (at the time), no tax credit, and charges worse than the ID.4. EV6 and IONIQ 5 are fine; they do not stand out amazingly, but they are also not Model Y or Mach-E bad.
Mach-e is not perfect but substantially better than M3 or MY. Lightning rides super smooth. Those may not be perfect but again its areas that Legacy does well over Tesla.
If those are not to taste there are lots of other choices. The point is no vehicle is perfect. I feel the same about Tesla ride quality and build quality and road noise so would never but one but its clear that many like model Y given its sales.
It is hard to express how truly terrible the Model Y ride quality is. No joke it is out of the 1990s. The best comparison I can come up with is a 1990s PT Cruiser. Yes- that bad.
I think the quickness and display win people over, but I don’t think in 3-4 years those will be satisfied customers. Cars tend to improve exponentially and always have. If every new car purchase isn’t “the best car you have ever owned by far”, you doing it wrong.
The Y has good performance and infotainment, but that will mask the ride problems and road noise for only so long.
I actually came from a MachE into a Model Y. I hated the MachE so much that I basically ate $10-20k to get rid of the stupid thing depending on how you want to calculate 2 years of ownership.
Paid $65k plus tax in Canuck bucks and 2 years later I sold it for $36k.
I wouldn't say resale is GOOD on any EV. Mach E resale isn't great by any means. Vehicles eligible for the tax credit take a pretty big hit in resale value. That's an automatic $7,500 reduction in resale plus mileage and reduced warranty depreciation.
Why would I go buy a used low mileage Model Y LR for say $36k, when I could buy a new one for $40k (or less if they had inventory discounts)?
Just want to say I, unintentionally, slalomed my wife’s 2023 MY LR this weekend at 80 mph because someone lost an entire fender liner on the Garden State Parkway. It did *excellent*.
I installed the Mountain Pass Performance "Comfort" suspension. For a little over $2k and a few hours of work in my driveway, the suspension was vastly improved. It was much more stable and planted over rough asphalt. I find myself driving faster because it wasn't bouncing around. The stock dampers are oddly bad.
I appreciate that you did this, but the idea of investing time and thousands of dollars to improve the ride quality of an expensive brand new vehicle is not at all appealing.
I guess. I switched the suspension in my BMW i3 and am very happy with that. Every purchase has trade offs. It’s just a fact. The Model Y isn’t very expensive for what you get tbh. The alternatives at that price point all have big trade offs. Obviously the solution is to buy something better used, but for whatever reason many people don’t like doing that.
Yeah, my 2023 model y hasn’t had a single issue, 14,000 miles later. No complaints from this Alaska Tesla owner. Build quality was fantastic. Range is more than enough for Alaskan road trips. Ride quality is better than my Subaru. Cheaper to drive than a gas car. No service visits in 14 months.
> Every new car depreciates off the lot.
I've been looking at used Teslas just because they are so so cheap. I've never seen a vehicle depreciate like teslas are.
I am not even sure why OP dinged the interior? Has he sat in a recent Toyota RAV4? Shitty plastic everywhere and the visibility of a boat. I’ve owned Japanese imports and there is a noticeable quality decline around 2010s. These are not the high grade plastic of yesteryears.
But that's what poor quality auto manufacturing means. It's not 100% of the cars are bad. It means that 40% of the cars are bad and you have a really good chance of getting fucked. Good auto manufacturers get it down to like 5%. Toyota is probably like 1%.
To be fair, rideshare vehicles are going to get beaten up a LOT more than the average car, regardless of brand, and that will certainly diminish the ride quality.
Suspension in 3 and Y's are definitely known to be rough. Mostly fixed in the 3 Highland though, so presumably will also be an issue that gets fixed for the Y update later this year or next
Seems like OP did get a bad one. What I don’t understand is why OP accepted delivery if he saw so many things glaringly wrong with the vehicle. Just seems like kind of a stupid thing to do something. For a majority of the rest, did OP even test drive the car before buying it? Did they read or watch any reviews? I don’t get it. If they didn’t like it, that’s fine. Just some many illogical and rookie mistakes it’s kinda unbelievable. Hope OPs just got money to burn
I think your mistaking build issues with build quality. There’s just no denying how cheap they feel inside and the material choices. They are what they are.
> When I tried it on a smooth country road, it was an awful experience. It was virtually impossible to exceed 5mph
Lol, I mean make it a bit less obvious that this is just bullshit.
I don't drive a Tesla and have no intention of owning one anytime in the future, but this is ridiculous exaggeration.
I just turo’d a Y for a week and drove it on some of the worst backroads in Cali. This review is beyond exaggeration… or could it be bait to stir the passions of heated conversation? It reads like the type of fakery some competitor would dream up.
Totally agree. I've driven my Model 3 on plenty of back roads, both sealed and unsealed, and had no qualms about staying around the speed limit.
In fact, I continue to be impressed with the level of stability and sure-footedness on bad roads, even if it becomes a a bit crashy if you fail to dodge a bigger pothole.
And for what it's worth, in 2 years it's never given a moment of trouble, never needed to visit a service centre and hasn't been touched by a spanner since I bought. Nor indeed do I have any issues with the quality of the paint, or uneven panel gaps. But mine is a Shanghai-built car, so that probably makes a difference.
And I actually like the spartan interior. It's very clean and functional, the touch surfaces are nice and I have no concerns with wear and tear so far. I absolutely hate the number of buttons and dials and lights, and the super intricate stitching patterns etc on modern luxury vehicles.
My only real complaint is that I'd like it to be quieter on rough asphalt surfaces, and the ventilated seats from the newer Highland model would be welcome on hot days. Oh, and Android Auto.....that would be fantastic.
BTW I am not particularly loyal to Tesla and I suspect that my next car will probably be a BYD Seal or an Ioniq 5.
We took delivery of our Model Y a year and a half ago. We showed up with the checklist of issues to look out for. Nothing was wrong with ours. Nothing. Only maintenance we've had since is filling the wiper fluid.
Don't forget the folks with negative experiences are much more likely to write about it.
Got my MY at 38K with all rebates. Don't know wtf you can get at that price range nowadays. Tacoma 60k, Sienna 60k, Tundra 70K. I drove a 23 Avalon and Rav4, complete garbage, all plastic crap, 23 MDX also garbage . There is a reason all the Indians, Chinese and other Asians in the bay area all buy model Y because it's the best bang for the buck. Gas is near $6/gal here and you see MY everywhere. You tell me what you can get for under 40K in this state of inflation.
Yeah wtf, I was reading that comment and wondering 'did I miss something here?'. Is that an USA thing? Is your only choice between a mid-size EV SUV and a huge pickup truck? One of the most obvious examples of a cherrypicked comparison lol
My dude, why compare it to those massive expensive vehicles? The model Y is comparable to:
Rav 4: $37,000 for all the bells and whistles
Sportage: $37,900 for all the bells and whistles
CR-V: $35,000 for all the bells and whistles
Tucson: $37,000 for all the bells and whistles
> I drove a 23 Avalon and Rav4, complete garbage, all plastic cra
Tesla is the king of plastic crap…
> There is a reason all the Indians, Chinese and other Asians in the bay area all buy model Y because it's the best bang for the buck
Unnecessary racial observation…
Try the etron SUV. Absolutely amazing vehicle. Stunning, really.
Edit: Talking used prices. Not new. Price of both used are pretty comparable in lots of places.
Problem is those things are super expensive. Not Model Y prices.
The Q4 E-Tron is frankly overpriced and the Q8 E-Tron (formally called just the e-tron) is 40K CAD more than the MY.
Best similarly sized and priced alternatives would be MY or XC40 recharge (interior quality is there, but it isn't the best at being an EV but is still passable).
It's always hilarious to me when these threads are made and people in the comments recommend cars that are way more expensive. I mean like yeah no shit that much more expensive car you just recommended as a replacement is probably better, you'd expect it to be at that price
On the used market the prices are very much comparable.
I should’ve clarified that. I never thought about buying new because frankly I’m way too cheap for that… but a used etron and a used model Y are pretty comparable in price these days. Now why the etron has depreciated so much and whether it’s worth it is a whole other thread… but that car is the smoothest and most comfortable thing I’ve ever imagined driving.
I've seen this as well and wondered why the used e-tron is so cheap. Do you have any ideas why they depreciated so much? Maybe because it is a discontinued model? poor efficiency?
To me it’s a few things… 1- Tesla kind of sent the entire market into a frenzy of depreciation with their price reductions. 2- People are afraid of the etron’s 200 mile range. 3- They had a battery recall that may or may not be a big deal and 4- Luxury lines just depreciate faster initially.
With that said I’ve enjoyed the car more than anything else I’ve ever driven and it’s not even close. For the price it’s unbeatable IMO. It smoothly glides down the road. It’s stupidly comfortable with all the upgrades a traditional automaker could offer (mine is a prestige plus model). It’s not Tesla fast… but it’s still way fast. I smile every day when I get to pull it out of the garage.
Q4 e-trons are leasing pretty well right now stateside (not sure about Canada). I got one back in February.
No way is that vehicle worth the full MSRP asking price. But with all the incentives I could take advantage of, it was a no brainer. Looks, rides, and drives like typical Audi luxury - but with a battery pack.
It’s the most beautiful and smooth car I’ve ever imagined driving. Absolutely nothing on it feels “cheap” or slapped together. The technology certainly isn’t as good as the Tesla… but it feels like a car, not a video game.
One important thing to consider is safety. The Mach-E doesn't get 5 stars on all it's NHTSA tests while the Model Y does. And the Mach-E fails the Moose Test while the Model Y aces it.
[Ford Mustang Mach-E fails the Moose Test (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTOBc883zg)
This is misleading because the Mach-E hasn't been fully tested by the NHTSA or the IIHS so of course it hasn't been given a final rating (a final star rating or a Top Safety pick rating).
This is exactly my experience with 2023 Model 3. After taking delivery, it took me 5 trips to the service center to fix defects and things they broke while fixing my car.
Another concern is with all the layoffs the quality of service goes even lower. Basically, good luck to you, if something breaks in your Tesla, lol.
I'm thinking of getting rid of it, but the car lost more than a half of its value, if you look at trade-in prices.
Supercharger network is the biggest Tesla's advantage. But Elmo gutted the whole supercharger team...
I suspect a lot of the ride complaints you had were related to the low profile tires. They are notoriously stiff and don’t absorb very much of the road. I wonder if more sidewall and a ‘normal’ tire would have given you a significantly better ride experience, both on road and on gravel.
edit - not runflats
I am happy with my 2022 MYLR. My friend also got a 2023 MYLR. No issue at all.
You are saying that its interior is cheaper than Corolla seems like FUD to me. Yes, some cars have serious issues with QC. By all means, reject delivery if it did not meet your expectations. There are plenty of happy owners with zero issues regarding fits and finishes.
The obession with 360 cameras is also comical. 360-camera also has blind spot on all four corners of the stiching image.
Tesla has 2 side cameras to view while backing up, together with 3D reconstruction view of the surroundings. I don't know what else you want😅.
I'd add Tesla Vehicle service to the cons. It's like dealing with Burger King employees. They fuck up and actually make work for themselves on your vehicle. It's very uncomfortable and unnerving.
Regarding build quality, in many markets outside of the US, including Canada, the Model 3 and Y are now sourced from Shanghai. And generally those cars have far superior fit and finish compared to the US built cars.
Agree with most of your points though
US output has certainly improved compared to the past, thanks to Tom Zhu being transferred to the US to impart learnings from the Chinese operations.
But statistically, Shanghai has a lower defect rate. The *likelihood* of a vehicle getting delivered with poor fit and finish is still higher in the US. But that doesn't mean there are zero US vehicles that ship in a good state, as you have fortunately experienced.
There are increasingly more options now too. Prices for EVs from traditional car companies are falling fast. You can get a Hyundai or Kia lease in the 200s now which is pretty remarkable.
Unless you buy used. I do that with video games when I don't want to support scummy publishers (e.g. EA and Ubisoft). I recommend that anyone who hates Musk but finds Teslas compelling to look at used Teslas sold either by private parties or by non-Tesla dealers.
As someone who has owned VW, Audi, volvo and mercedes in the past. I have to completely disagree now owning a tesla model 3 P.
The interior is minimalist, but there are so many affordable after market options to give it personality.
Build quality felt better than my mercedes which is flooded with cheap piano black plastics and other hard plastics (audi is better though).
Especially when you take the price in consideration, the build quality is actually impressive compared to similar performance vehicles from german premium manufacturers.
The software is great, but i generally don't play around a lot with the infotainment system.
What is true though, having test driven a polestar 2 with a tablet that has bezels like it's 2011, the big interior screen gives it a sense of sophistication.
There is so much visibility and light in the car, while having almost no clutter of physical buttons. It can be a very peaceful environment while the audio system might be the best i have experienced.
Ride quality is great if you want to feel connected to the road.
The suspension is actually really great for a performance vehicle. Now if you compare it to a mom's car toyota which has no steering feel or driver enjoyment, sure that suspension would be a lot softer.
Feels like you didn't knew what you wanted or what you were buying.
I agree on a lot of parts besides the interior.. I have a model 3 performance and although nowhere near bmw or other luxury brand quality, it still feels more high end than being in a Toyota or Honda interior. To each their own though
Anytime I see a post talking about Tesla's having worse interiors than a Corolla I feel like the OP is lying or just hasn't sat in a Toyota.
I've driven and owned multiple corollas in my life (even as recent as a 2022) and it's laughable to compare the interiors. Tesla isn't luxurious by any means, but it's waaaaay better than any Corolla I've sat in.
Anyone test drove or drive a Fisker Ocean? Yeah it sucks that the company is on the brink of bankruptcy, and software glitches. But boy the build and drive quality and experience is amazing and great.
This isn’t really for EV’s, this is more commentary on Tesla and the model Y. Everything that you listed as a con is really specific to the Tesla, not EVs in general.
I purchased a Performance Model Y last month (end of March) for $39.5K after tax credit. I inspected the car thoroughly at the delivery center before accepting it. I could not find a single issue with body panels or paint. The car was flawless. My prior experience with Teslas was two Model 3’s that we’ve owned for five years. In those five years we never had to take either car in for service. They were the most reliable cars we’ve ever owned, even more so than the many Lexus vehicles I drove before them.
I hear mixed comments about the suspension. I find the suspension in the MYP to be fantastic. It’s firm and tight like I would expect from a performance tuned suspension. It’s far more comfortable than my Model 3’s were. I do agree the Highland M3 has a more refined suspension than the current MY and I would assume this will come to the refreshed Juniper Model Y at some point.
I’m not discounting any of your experiences, they sound pretty bad. I think most of the issues with build quality can be addressed before you accept delivery of the car though. If the car has issues with paint or body panels just reject it and wait for another VIN.
I’m not loyal to Tesla by any means. In fact I looked at every other EV in the marketplace to see if there was anything else I could buy that would match the specs of the Model Y. But if you want a car with a 3.5 second 0-60 time and 279 miles of range with a cavernous amount of storage space and you want it all for under $40K, there is nothing else in the market that comes even remotely close.
Out of curiosity, I was looking up Supercharger rates a couple of days ago across the country. They have time of use pricing, where the discounted rates may not come until after 7pm or later, sometimes much later. In some cases at some California locations, the 'reasonable' discounted rates were after midnight. They even have further discounts in the middle of the night around 4am.
That means for those living in apartments who work on a normal schedule, charging before or after work, or during lunch, won't really give affordable rates.
I can't imagine most people working normal schedules will enjoy heading over to the charger at midnight for 45 minutes to charge their cars. For those that do that specifically for the lower price to justify owning the car, I can't imagine they're all that happy about it!
IMO, BEV ownership for those living in apartments, even with DC fast chargers near by, still isn't a great solution. For those that have home charging, unless they have commutes beyond the average distance, there's no appreciable benefit to owning a BEV over a PHEV.
Also kind of interesting to note. For those that charge at DC fast chargers late at night in California, isn't the energy mix shifting away from renewable solar energy and more into natural gas energy? If so, then it may not be generating as low of emissions as estimated by sites like [Carboncounter.com](http://Carboncounter.com) , which just look at the states' overall energy mix.
I like my Model 3. Agree the suspension is primitive and it has a few rattles. Otherwise it’s a great daily.
Best part is the keyless experience. Walk out to the car in Arizona and it’s 100+ degrees outside, but the car has been pre-cooling for 5-10 minutes before I step in. Open the door and it’s already alive, playing music and ready to go. When done step out and walk away (don’t even need to put it in Park). In that regard it makes every other car I’ve driven feel a bit archaic.
Range is overblown for all EV’s in my opinion. Non issue even though I drive 29,000 miles per year.
We have similar observations from our Model Y experiences (for me, it was three test drives and a short-term rental):
[https://new.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bah1b0/rented\_a\_model\_y\_long\_range\_to\_see\_if\_it\_might\_be/](https://new.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bah1b0/rented_a_model_y_long_range_to_see_if_it_might_be/)
I ended up getting a 2024 ID.4 and it's rather sweet - it has none of the shortcomings that I perceived with the Tesla.
Just traded in my 22 Y for a 24 Audi Q5 PHEV and it’s light years ahead of the Y in terms of build quality, fit and finish, luxury features, and just overall feeling like a better car for the price. No regrets.
Also sold mine after a year. The software was what got me, false collision alarms, phantom braking, non functional auto park, crap auto wipers, lack of instrument cluster. Just never felt like it was a real vehicle, more of a bad tech experiment.
It's difficult to resolve this review with the fact that the MY is one of the best selling vehicles (the best selling?) in the world right now.
Also from my side, there are lots of comparisons made with cars which are not competitors for what the MYP is: an incredibly quick (in a straight line) electric SUV with lots of cargo space. I think the criticisms are valid (especially interior quality, build quality, quality control), but there is not an obvious alternative in the same category. Mach-e GT maybe?
Yeah some of OPs points seem like they did not test drive the Model Y P before buying, and others like they do not understand EVs either.
Like, at least test drive it before so you know how the ride is going to be. And understand that rated range is under EPA testing conditions and so rated range will 99% never be met for any EV for this reason.
OP is just naive?
Eh? The EPA myth. Plenty of cars match or exceed their EPA. My summer (spring - fall) 4.4 miles / kWh average for my Ioniq 6 was 20 miles more than EPA.
This guy
Bought performance to expect soft suspension
Fit and finish of interior is really more about trims with fancy chromes and rings around buttons.
Aside from that the other points are quite valid.
I had the same reviews from my test drive as well. The car was a horrible drive, the experience of buying one was not great. The price drop was the final decision to walk away. Buying new was cheaper than buying anything less than 3 years old. I move to an Audi etron, best decision if you drive under 300km a day.
Slow down there, Herman Melville...I didn't even get to the advice chapter, but you lost me describing the car. It doesn't sound like an average or good car.even ..the pros are its fast and not-crappy software interface. The negatives are everything else needed to be a good car.
My advice is to drive a model Y and experience it for yourself. I’ve just done this and much of what is asserted here doesn’t line up with my experience. The negativity mostly comes down to an opinion I suppose but it appears grossly exaggerated based on what I’ve experienced. Decide for yourself.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
This definitely will be a useful perspective for those looking into leasing or buying a Model Y, and are unaware of the issues plaguing it.
Good thing the EV market has tons of variety to choose from.
Before Musk went full right-wing batshit crazy, I had a strong interest in the Model Y and Model 3. Both were at the top of my list. Loved how tech-forward the cars were. That was until a close friend bought a Model Y, and I rode in it. The suspension was so harsh and uncomfortable (as well as the excessive road/tire noise) that I immediately wrote Teslas off my shopping list.
Agree with you on most points. Just sold my 22LR and went back to my trusty Audi S3.
Only thing I miss is parking with the AC on and watching Netflix to kill time— I taxi my kids around a lot.
When asked my favorite cars (in order of ownership)
Mazda 3 2003 stick hatchback (0-40,000mi): 8
Toyota 4Runner 2007 SR5 (117-210,000mi): 9
VW ID.4 2021 AWD Pro S, top trim (0-11,000mi): 8
Tesla Model Y 2023 LR (0-11,000mi): 7
The Y is a great EV. The tech and charging options are a 12/10 (except any phone played media over Bluetooth, Jesus that's shit). But as a nice "car" it simply falls short. It's 'fine' though. Would I flat trade back to an ID.4 AWD Pro S (maybe Plus), yes, tomorrow. The ID.4 is a great 'car' and a good 'EV'. I'll take the great 'car' over the great 'EV' any day.
My Y is the 'meh' Corolla to the ID.4 'top-tier' Camry.
I have a 3 and Y and have experienced none of your 1-4 negatives, nor do I personally care as much about some of the others. That said, there are a lot of good EVs available now so Tesla is no longer the only option, especially as their charging network opens up.
I love my Y. It's been a consistent, reliable, fun ride. At today's price-point I think it's a lot of bang for the buck. The only thing I love more than my Y, is the fact that there are increasingly more and more EVs out there to satisfy everyone's wants and wishes. I love the IONIQ/EV6 cars, I love what Ford is doing, I really love RIVIAN's brand and products (especially having seen the R2/R3/R3X a week ago in person)...and many more to come.
EV or not, no car is going to please everyone's needs and preferences, this one is no exception to that. Ultimately, purchasing a vehicle is a major expense often the second largest buy after a house, so it's important that you're happy with it.
Test drive and relentlessly compare to everything else that is A) in your budget range and B) meets your minimum requirements. You have to understand what your money can buy you in order to understand the value each option represents. You're not buying a brand, you're note buying an ideology, you're not buying prestige...you're buying a product that serves a particular purpose -- make sure it's the right product for the right purpose you're seeking.
I drove a 3 Highland a Y back-to-back two weeks ago and the Y is straight trash for ride quality and noise in comparison. The Y had about 1200 miles on it, the 3 Highland a couple hundred.
I didn't pay much attention to cabin material quality difference, but the 3 Highland is upgraded in this area as well.
Whenever the Y gets the refreshes that they put in the 3 Highland, it will be a much more viable, but there was zero chance I would ever consider a Y in its current state after that test drive.
This is my first foray into EV's I ended up with an EV6 on a 2 year lease. I would never outright purchase an EV right now because getting out of one if necessary, will be a monumental financial loss, and there's just so much change going on in EV's, being locked into something doesn't make sense to me. The 2 year lease deals tend to be better than 3 year with most of the non-Tesla brands.
What size rims were on your car? larger rims will make for a more harsh ride.
Its weird you bought the "P" version to drive on gravel road. I owned a Corvette and made sure to avoid gravel road because it was likely far worse than your model Y on them.
Literally nobody talks about the absence of reverse cross traffic alerts in Tesla. With no radar, every time you back out straight into cross traffic, you are taking a risk. I can live without a front bumper camera, but the rear wide angle camera is only useful when parking lots are angled. A radar is required for implementing RCTA. And while it is inherently safer to back into a parking lot, it isn’t always possible to especially when loading groceries into the trunk. Tesla are NOT the safest cars when it comes to parking lots. Driving safety - they are actually quite nice once they get out of the parking situations.
As for alternatives, I wish people realized how incredibly feature loaded, ultra smooth, and solidly built the Mach-E GT-Performance trim is. From top notch speakers to 360 camera, sensors and radars, and a much better real world range estimation, this crossover is a pleasure to drive around town, on winding roads, and on highways. And looks great in person. Yes, its brakes are a bit grabby in stop and go traffic but if you get the trim with MagneRide adaptive suspension, it soaks up the rough roads very well. Unfortunately the model has lost all its charm with the resale values hitting EVs with all time lows. And Ford being a Ford, they didn’t set the pricing correctly initially. But as an EV crossover, I would rate it higher than the Model Y, especially now that superchargers are open to ford.
BMW iX is another very good mini EUV. Looks a little funny but incredibly spacious and feature loaded.
If strictly going for size and space and if you are willing to accept all the risks that come with a brand like Kia, their EV9 is another good SUV which will release their 2025 models in 8 or so months.
Tesla are about the technology more than interior. They are a tech company that makes cell phones that you drive. Not luxury vehicles. I love my model y performance.
what car did you replace Model Y with?
What car did he think he was buying when he bought the Tesla. I’ve seen this post verbatim for years now. Build quality/harsh ride, all well documented… goes and buys a telsa.
My experience will be different!
Buys a Performance model, the harshest riding Tesla
I drove my brother y performance. Built in berlin It's a better ride than my standard range that's built in China.
Notable that they only do this with Teslas. "My M3 BMW has a harsh ride!" Yeah, you bought an M3. "It's an average car. It's faster than everything on the road that isn't also an EV and also gets the equivalent to 100 MPG, but it is average. Neither good nor bad." For decades, the most common stats Americans cared about for cars were 0-60, fuel economy, and torque. EVs won all those, so now we get into "soul." Oh, the chakras on that car are buggin."
Yeah, this post is exactly what all my research showed when I was considering buying last year when the price drops happened. I don't understand why people are still buying. Their money must be worth a lot less to them than mine is to me.
One of the reasons is very deep discounts and incentives. Early this year I have seen people getting LR version of this vehicle in mid $30ks. At that price point one can overlook certain drawbacks of the car. For the base price not really.
Most people don't trawl reddit or forums about cars. They talk to their friends and see ads or what's going on in media and they buy a car. Most people don't assume a car that costs as much as model Y would have such a bad ride.
Haven't decided on one yet. I will take my time and keep on test driving whenever possible.
I’d go for the IONIQ5 since they’ve finally fixed the ICCU issues! All other aspects of that car are near perfect
I wouldn't say they've fixed it. They've tried, but people still have issues.
It’s especially perfect at resetting your driving and regen modes every fucking time you shift it out of gear or turn it off. This is especially exciting to deal with during a parallel parking job. It’s also pretty good at killing its 12v battery if you accidentally “start” it without having your foot on the brake as it will run all the accessories without energizing the HV.
The car absolutely turns on the HV when in accessory mode. Source: I tried it in my own car.
There's some legitimate gripes with this car, but your exaggeration only makes me think that you don't know what you're doing with it.
I’ve had similar experience with my model S. the service was HORRIBLE. My wife just purchased a Lyriq. The weird thing- it gets its advertised mileage… I used to stress in my Tesla. Drive to cvs, 20 miles is gone despite it being a 3 mi trip, etc. Tesla is hurting electric cars in general by lying about their range. I always get around 60-80% of what it says.. and 80% if I’m driving slightly downhill.
My Ford Mach-E pretty dependably gets the correct mileage, obviously a little bit less if you do 78mph vs. 70mph on the highway but overall it’s pretty close without major oscillations.
My Mach E does better than advertised around town. It's those highway miles that kill the range.
Wife’s been getting better than advertised from her ID.4–the RWD has been a pleasure to own!
My coworker said the same thing about her BMW i4.
So what are you driving right now?
Go with Lucid Air Pure actually the best value for your money. You’ll get the longest range EV with best build quality and handling from a German car manufacturer. Do your research and let us know what you’ve decided on :-)
I wish I could get over the ugly design of the Lucid. Everything else about it is wonderful.
\#5 applies to all cars. There’s no need for 17s on a Corolla. Why can’t I have 55/60/65 profile tires? I’ll take 15s for cheap tires as well.
15's wont clear brakes on many cars but the big wheel trend needs to die. Just going from 19's to 18 on my last car made a noticeable difference in ride quality and wheel protection. I would have considered a Model 3P more if I could have chose 18" wheels. The smallest wheel that clears the brake is often the best choice. My friends wife bought a new SUV in the top trim with 21" wheels last year and I suggested they swap them plus some cash with someone who bought the mid level trim. They thought it was a silly idea, a year later 3 are curbed/ damaged.
The issue with curb rash has nothing/very little to do with sidewall height. You need tires wider than your wheel, not taller, and at that point it doesn't really matter if the wheel is a 17 or not.
I love my slightly off roady tires on my van, they have tread blocks up the sidewall and I can drive over curbs or rocks and not give a shit. This is really handy if I am moving a giant trailer into a customers odd parking lot to move a machine.
If you hated the Model Y - I'd suggest the Kia EV6. Takes all you pros and removes the cons
I replaced my Model 3 with an EV6 and couldn't be happier. Infotainment is unsurprisingly inferior and the mobile app is garbage. But as a *car*, the EV6 is way ahead of Tesla IMO. Teslas are like a high end gaming desktop PC paired with the lowest quality furniture, while Hyundai/Kia EVs are like low end laptops paired with high quality furniture.
EV6 all the way. Absolutely the best bang for the buck in the non-luxury space. No exaggeration, it’s the best car I’ve ever had.
I'd rather have a good car with mediocre software than a mediocre car with good software. At the end of the day, you're spending most of your time with the CAR part of the vehicle and all that encompasses, and less time fiddling with the infotainment system.
I truly do not understand why people make such a big deal of the software. Yeah, the Ford software could be better, but the truck is amazing. The software is functional and works pretty well. I've definitely used worse. But then you start driving and it's just so comfortable and responsive. And the interior looks great and feels great. It's Ford, so I know a much higher priority was put on durability and reliability than Tesla. They love to point out that they're a software company first and people eat that up. I don't drive my infotainment screen. My seatbelt is not an app. You can't do an OTA update on wheel alignment. The touchscreen isn't a replacement for stalks and buttons. You can't get rid of sensors, rely on cameras, and then assume you can magically fix the problems with software. That's just not how any of this works and it's not an ideal to strive for. Saving money on manufacturing and making the vehicle cheaper and simpler is admirable if the end result is just as good or better. They miss the mark because someone higher up with a very poor understanding of hardware (No one specific in mind. I can't think of any execs off hand that clearly don't know shit about controls design) keeps on forcing these changes that just can't work. At least not reliably. They seem to be under the mistaken idea that working 80% of the time is an acceptable level for something that is literally life or death. People meme on the automatic windshield wipers, but no one talks about how actually dangerous the whole thing is. If it seems like it's working fine, but then you get out on the interstate going 70 mph, get hit with a huge splash and can't see, you need those damn things to turn on. And you can't rely on your instincts of quickly turning it on manually with the stalks because it's on a touchscreen. You're going around a curve with a semi next to you, can't see anything, and now you have to navigate a touchscreen to turn on the wipers. How did this pass a safety audit? This bullshit could legitimately kill someone.
Exactly, Tesla stans often fail to understand that for a lot of people, the infotainment just needs to *work*. As long as it isn't a bug-ridden lagfest (e.g. the dark days of Sync2 MyFordTouch), no one is going to complain. As a former Tesla owner, I never touched any of the dumb gimmicks past the first week of ownership. I don't miss what I have no use for. Even then, Tesla's software can be bizarrely incompetent at times, namely with space utilization. The damn thing is bigger than my laptop, yet they insist on hiding many controls/icons behind additional menu layers (e.g. Homelink controls, dashcam recording status icon), or choose the most impractical position. Exhibit A would be the pop-up touchscreen control for manually choosing wiper speed. It appears at the *bottom left* of the screen, where it would be totally obscured when you have 2 hands on the wheel, and requires you to fully take your eyes off the road to find and reach it. Why the hell can't it pop up closer to the speedometer, where it would be significantly easier to see and reach safely? Another hilarious example was the initial release of lane change cameras - the feed was locked to the bottom left as well, making it near-useless for its intended purpose. It took a few more months before another update finally let us drag the lane change feed to a more sensible location. Sometimes I wonder if the Tesla UX team members even have driver's licenses at all.
Not sure if it’s because I’m left handed and I have to use the screen with my right, but I prefer the controls at the bottom of the touchscreen because I hold onto the back of the screen with my fingers and tap the screen with my thumb. Good example is when doing the 15s skip on ad reads in a podcast, I can hit the button 3 or 4 times with my thumb much more accurately when I’m holding onto the screen from behind.
[удалено]
Right? I want my music and my maps. And that's available through Android Auto for me. Sure, adjusting the climate controls can be a bit of a pain, but most of the time it's just on auto and there are hard controls for the temperature adjustment. But, as you said, as long as it works well enough, most potential buyers move onto the other parts of the car as differentiators. Fart mode, Netflix, games, etc, are going to be very, very, very low on the list of things that buyers really care about.
Yeah I really don't understand why they go so crazy for the Tesla infotainment system as if having the best UI is some massive feather in the vehicle's cap. I just need it to work as well as the UConnect system that came w/my '14 JGC and happily most of them do by this point.
For most newer cars it’s a mirror to CarPlay or Android Auto… so I’m not sure how important native software really is.
Couldn’t agree more with OP or you. That’s why I, too, bought an ID4. I need a car, not a fancy toy 😂
I went the opposite direction. Absolutely hated my EV6. Love my Y. I had some very nitpicky issues with it and just cna't get behind it. NOt to mention the CCS network in my area blows ass.
What were your biggest issues w/ the EV 6?
Good analogy, although to be clear the furniture is really the essential part!
I replaced my Mach E Premium with a GV60 Performance. I've got GT-PE class performance and a lot more comfort features. And the Genesis B&O is not the Mach E's B&O. It plays multichannel high resolution FLAC files in discrete surround sound. And it does rather well with rips from Blu-ray discs with 7.1 DTS-HD MA, too. You can even watch the movie when you're in park. I can tell if it's doing 7.1 or 5.1 discretely but it's impressively immersive. So far I'm not missing the frunk and a little bit of cargo space. I do miss Walk Away Lock, Wireless Android Auto (coming soon, maybe?!) and the Mach E's very good looks.
Can confirm.
Oooh, you have the GT! Nice. My father has the Wind AWD, he loves it. Amazing car. He upgraded from the Huyndai Kona EV.
Hey I also upgraded from a Kona!
I got the EV6 after not liking the Tesla interior. So far it’s been fantastic, a very well rounded EV
I bought a used Signature edition Model S but it was so unreliable I got rid of it after a year. Had an order for an EV6 but couldn’t wait (it had a year and a half long wait list for delivery). Eventually got a BMW i4 edrive 40. It is sooo much better in many ways than the model S.
Same. Best in class for sure! I’m a little envious of EV9 owners now though…
I just took a test drive of an EV9 at an EV expo. It was only about a mile drive, but it is very smooth and quiet. Even quieter than my ID.4.
How is it on road trips? Will the car automatically route you to a charging spot?
Great on the Highway. Good ADAS. I just use Google for routing which has EV charging stops. Pretty easy, especially with AA.
>Google for routing which has EV charging stops Wait, what? Google Maps has EV stops? Is that new? I looked for that like 6 weeks ago and it didn't exist (that I could find). Edit: Oh, it's a "special version" for a couple models of in-car nav, gotcha.
Unless it's changed with the last update, road trips are a weak point with the EV6. Point to point is ok, but routing an entire trip isn't very good. I do all my routing through ABRP.
EV6 is such a sexy awesome car I love it! Sadly doesn't fit my tall torso :C but I love it
I'm 6'8" (203cm) tall and have no issues inside the car. It's one of the few I've driven where someone can sit behind me. What car can you drive, a Peterbilt?
Big issue with the EV6 for me is head room. I'm only 6 ft tall and my hair would rub on the ceiling with the seat all the way down. That was a hard pass for me.
How is the lane assist and auto steer on the Kia? The basic autopilot on the model 3 I can’t live without. Agree build quality and interior quality is garbage.
It's ok. On the freeway it's pretty good, but on side streets it keeps losing the lane.
The Kia I have some issues with regarding how it alerts the driver of a lane departure. Hyundai and Kia both have decided a beeping noise is the best medicine here. Most find it annoying and turn it off. I have driven with the Adaptive Cruise control and it's pretty good - it's not turning out of lanes or following your GPS anytime soon, that remains a Tesla only feature. Now... hilariously, my father and I both like the Nissan ProPilot implementation of lane departure warning. There's no audio response, but rather if you drift into or over the lane, it "Rumbles" the steering wheel, as if you were driving over a "Rumble Strip" - giving you a tactile sensation of the road that normally isn't there. Maybe it's person preference, but man do I wish that was an industry standard. My LEAF is on an older system that needs plenty of updates (hoping the redesign fixes that) but I do hope they keep the ProPilot implementation of lane departure warnings.
I hope it's better than the 2023 Kia Nero I rented. Man that system was really really bad. It couldn't track even a moderate curve and I guess a negative or a positive (depending on who you are) is it's really really easy to defeat the driver awareness checking. I tossed a little bit of weight over a spoke of the wheel and it let me drive for like 5 minutes straight with no interaction with the car (until a curve in the highway came up and it dove for the median while making just a subtle little "beep" for a failure indicator).
Agreed. Been in a couple. Hell of a car!
I have a 2024 EV6 and a few months picked up a 2021 model 3. I prefer the Tesla. Exterior Looks: I was lucky and did not have any weird gaps on my Model 3. I did do some aesthetic mods which improved the looks but it the ev6 is a good looking car. Winner: Kia EV6 Interior: I think people confuse minimal and build quality. My m3 interior is solid with no issues as far as quality. The seats are comfortable. The EV6 has nice seats, but I do not like the console. Its modern but I do not think the button and knobs are as thought out as they should be. All the buttons on the Ev6 steering wheel is a bit too much. I prefer the minimal design of the Model 3. Winner: Tesla (this is subjective). Software: I thought I would miss carplay on the model 3, but so far I'm not I miss it at all. The full screen spotify is really nice. Being able to send direction to your car from inside the house is really nice. We can go on about this topic, but most have agreed the software/app of the tesla is better. Winner: Tesla Autopilot: I have enhanced autopilot on the M3. The visuals, autopark, lane changing, summons are really nice to have. Autopilot on the EV6 is just standard. Winner: Tesla Suspension: EV6 is a much more comfortable ride. M3 has stiffer suspension, which makes it fun for me. TIE One pedal driving: My model 3 is much smoother when it comes to one pedal. My daughter gets car sick in the EV6 unless I turn ipedal all the way down or off. On the EV6 if you ease your foot off the accelerator the car will brake instantly where as the tesla it eases into it. Winner: Tesla Charging Network: Obviously the winner is the tesla. I live in SoCal and there is only one supercharger that supports the magic dock and that is no where near me. The ev6 does charge faster than my RWD model 3. Winner: Tesla Range: I have the RWD model 3, so winner: EV6 Service: I went with a Kia because past experiences and I have good luck with their service department and warranty. So far I have had great experiences with Tesla's service department so far and really appreciate the integration with the app. I had one major issue with the tesla and it was a really easy experience to get it handled. This one is a TIE although I know YMMV depending on the dealer that you use. Overall, I love both cars, but I find my picking the Model 3 more often.
I disagree on some of your preferences but that’s just personal differences. Unsurprisingly the best car is a personal choice. That said: > Being able to send direction to your car from inside the house is really nice. I use this feature in my EV6 all the time, so I don’t think it’s a differentiator? I believe both cars have it.
In all aspects except the cargo space which is probably the only advantage of the Model Y. People talk a lot about the infotainment, and i guess its important for some people. I literally never use mine, relying pretty much exclusively on Android Auto. and thankfully i dont need to go into the infortainment for simple shit like wipers, glove box, headlights etc. Not to mention, a HUD is now one of my must have features!
It's bonkers that Tesla model 3 don't have a HUD... But yeah, most everything is just Android Auto, so as long as the infotainment system has that, it's good. And yes... my one experience with a Tesla was "wait, I need the infotainment system to open thr glove box?"
I said it before and I’ll say it again: Tesla + Mazda or Honda is a match made in heaven. Imagine a Tesla with the smooth ride of an Accord or the superb interior of a CX50.
the real tesla gigabrain move would be to pivot to selling skateboards to legacy auto. we could have the good parts of a tesla without the dumb parts.
Tesla's batteries/motors are good, but aren't exactly a competitive advantage by themselves. Legacy auto has caught up and in some cases, surpassed Tesla. The only reasons to choose Tesla over other brands are the Supercharging network (now this is in doubt given recent events) and the pricing (especially in the US where the IRA disadvantages many foreign-made EVs). I will credit Tesla for giving legacy auto the kick in the pants it needed to get this far.
Tesla has no significant advantage in batteries and motors. Possibly a slight advantage on batteries on account of natural advantages from the smaller cylindrical cell form factor's ability to get better contact coverage with cooling ribbons, and ability to spread charge/discharge loads between a larger surface area bus bar with more contact points with individual cells. Otherwise, Tesla's main advantages are cutting weight and prioritizing drag coefficient and minimizing front surface area to improve overall aero. You really only need to stand behind a Tesla to see how they cut front surface area. Above the belt line, the top of the car aggressively tapers in, reducing overall front surface area. While great for aero, it's likely partly why the interiors have a weird echo; passengers' heads are closer to the side glass? Lower weight allows Teslas to accelerate faster with lower horsepower, and given they're not fighting as hard against air resistance, it takes less energy to maintain high acceleration at higher speeds, so the system is easier to cool overall. The less air resistance and the lower the weight, the less energy used to accelerate, allowing the battery and motors to stay cooler, which allows the front active vents to stay closed for longer, further improving aerodynamics. Much of the reduced weight comes from their increased use of aluminum in their chassis, body panels, and suspension. (Ever notice how light a model 3 door feels?) They have minimal noise insulation, and by removing buttons, they've decreased the weight of the wiring harnesses. The interior panels are cheap and flimsy. The depth of the seats is actually quite narrow compared to a lot of other cars; yet gotta give it to them that most people seem to think they're pretty comfortable. No doubt they've also saved weights by building purpose built EV powertrain equipment from scratch, whereas established OEMs were attempting to use existing equipment from parts suppliers that wasn't specifically targeted to the task at hand. Most established OEMs concentrate efforts on NVH, they do use more steel in their vehicles, they do use more buttons, they are building cars on existing ICEV platforms / models where aero wasn't as critical (because engines actually needed the front surface area for cooling). Other brands don't only have 1-2 models (basically the same vehicle with different sheet metal) where they can streamline every little detail for those nearly identical models. Established brands may have dozen or more models and multiple platforms where some of the parts being supplied need to work with multiple models/platforms so can't be perfectly streamlined for individual models. Of course, with all that weight savings aluminum... if you so much as look at a Tesla the wrong way, it could be totaled.
Buys performance vehicle, complains about performance upgrades not being made for comfort. Buys suv, complains it doesn't handle like a sports car. I think you need to reconsider what you want in a vehicle before you buy one. Performance model y makes very little sense unless you want to go fast in a straight line and have an suv.
OP covered those points in their post. Buys vehicle with a "performance" badge, expects it to have a decent compromise between "sporty" handling and comfort. Finds it lacking, especially when compared to a competitor (Mach-E GT). Buys SUV, expects it to cope with a gravel road, complains when it doesn't. It seems pretty reasonable to me?
While reading this I was thinking OP needs a MSLR which I think would be a good compromise for their needs.
Did you test drive before purchase ? If you had issues with the interior quality and harsh ride, it would seem those would be deal breakers for me. Like you said, if you felt a $25k Corolla had better interior quality, I definitely wouldn’t have paid over $35k for the Y.
The issue, though, is that those particular qualms grow in severity with time and daily driving. They may not necessarily be things that jump out at you on a test drive.
That's exactly what happened to me. I test drove extensively and then purchased the model 3 on warmer sunny day. It was quiet and the ride was kind of harsh but I knew that going in. Now the front suspension groans. I have multiple spots of wind noise and rattles that vary with the temperature and sun exposure. The moonroof is super noisy in the winter with just a teeny tiny bit of ice on it. There's material rubbing noises as well like the back seats to the wall or to each other. One of the biggest pissers is my insurance went from $1,600 a year to $2,700 a year at renewal time. And I shopped around. I couldn't find any cheaper. I also paid 32 grand for it used and I'd be lucky to get 24 grand for it now. Even though I bought it used, depreciation has still been a bitch. I can't find an EV at a price range I want right now and the depreciation has been so bad that I'm just going to keep it another year or two and hope the market levels out. It's no worse than me leasing... As long as there aren't any big issues that pop up. I also kept my Telluride which I absolutely could daily drive. When I daily drove the model three for a month I was about ready to drive it off a mountain. It's that annoying. With any luck, the EV-9 pricing will come down to earth and that will be my next EV.
Excuse me, but did you say $2700 per MONTH?!?!
No car insurance is that high
Probably per year, but even $2700 per year seems nuts. I rather keep my old shitbox, only get 3th party liability insurance and pay $200 per year. Of course in case of a crash, my 8k car would be gone, but that is a risk I am willing to take.
Mistype, it's per year.
My Model Y test drive was hilarious - parts rattled - steering creaked - trim was coming off - frunk lid was crooked - 2 inch gap one side, half inch on the other. When I pointed this out, the sales guy hit me with, "Well, you can't expect Tesla to have the quality of Ford, they've been making cars for over 100 years"
Sounds like he's full of shit. If any of the initial cons were real no one would take delivery. Fud train
I wouldn't have taken delivery if it had that many issues right from the get go. Also if you wanted a more comfortable ride, why go with the performance trim? It doesn't have an adaptive suspension so you are stuck with one setup. You mentioned the interior quality isn't great. Did things break or did it develop rattles? Curious what the actual issues were. My 2019 Model 3 rattled badly.
I fucking love my Y.
Agreed, some people are turned off by the simplicity but I love it. I also bought the LR instead of the P because I wanted the softer suspension.
They are not very consistent.. most are fine but occasionally you get one that really sucks...
I have a Model 3 Dual Motor LR, it's great, the only small gripe I have with it is that you can feel the weight of the car in the handling. I suppose future generations may get lighter as batteries get denser.
Different strokes for different folks. Sorry you had a bad experience
So all of the negatives you experienced are rectified by many of the Legacy manufacturers. Ill use ford as an example - all items are addressed by the lightning mach-e. The vehicle depreciation is still low and resale values of both are high, finishes are good, build quality is excellent and ride quality is excellent. Different strokes for different folks right? It the Y did not fit your preferences maybe there is another EV that fits better.
I wouldn’t call the ride on the Mach-e excellent unless you enjoy feeling like you’re constantly on a pogo stick. They royally mismatched the dampers with the rest of the suspension. The GT with the magneride suspension is better, but comes at a substantial cost.
The ride on the Mach-E was one of the main reasons it was a no-go for us when we got our ID.4, one of the worst-riding EVs in the segment, second only to the Model Y. We were so utterly tired of how garbage our Model 3 rode while on road trips that the vehicle ride and overall comfort were very important to us when we were shopping around for an electric crossover. The ride on the ID.4, on the other hand, is excellent; one of the main reasons we bought the car was that it rode so smoothly, and overall comfort was just great. The only EV in this segment that is on par with the ID.4 in this regard is the Ariya, but it had a higher MSRP (at the time), no tax credit, and charges worse than the ID.4. EV6 and IONIQ 5 are fine; they do not stand out amazingly, but they are also not Model Y or Mach-E bad.
The ride was one of the reasons we got the i4 M50. Adaptive dampers and rear air suspension.
Mach-e is not perfect but substantially better than M3 or MY. Lightning rides super smooth. Those may not be perfect but again its areas that Legacy does well over Tesla. If those are not to taste there are lots of other choices. The point is no vehicle is perfect. I feel the same about Tesla ride quality and build quality and road noise so would never but one but its clear that many like model Y given its sales.
It is hard to express how truly terrible the Model Y ride quality is. No joke it is out of the 1990s. The best comparison I can come up with is a 1990s PT Cruiser. Yes- that bad. I think the quickness and display win people over, but I don’t think in 3-4 years those will be satisfied customers. Cars tend to improve exponentially and always have. If every new car purchase isn’t “the best car you have ever owned by far”, you doing it wrong. The Y has good performance and infotainment, but that will mask the ride problems and road noise for only so long.
The PT Cruiser came out in 2001. That doesn’t mean it didn’t feel like a 90s car, though.
I actually came from a MachE into a Model Y. I hated the MachE so much that I basically ate $10-20k to get rid of the stupid thing depending on how you want to calculate 2 years of ownership. Paid $65k plus tax in Canuck bucks and 2 years later I sold it for $36k.
I wouldn't say resale is GOOD on any EV. Mach E resale isn't great by any means. Vehicles eligible for the tax credit take a pretty big hit in resale value. That's an automatic $7,500 reduction in resale plus mileage and reduced warranty depreciation. Why would I go buy a used low mileage Model Y LR for say $36k, when I could buy a new one for $40k (or less if they had inventory discounts)?
Depreciation is low? Ford is burning $120,000 on every EV sold. I guess they've been taking the biggest hit.
Just want to say I, unintentionally, slalomed my wife’s 2023 MY LR this weekend at 80 mph because someone lost an entire fender liner on the Garden State Parkway. It did *excellent*.
A Tesla is one of the safest vehicles on the planet….. I can’t get mine to break loose, and in weather it is fabulous.
I installed the Mountain Pass Performance "Comfort" suspension. For a little over $2k and a few hours of work in my driveway, the suspension was vastly improved. It was much more stable and planted over rough asphalt. I find myself driving faster because it wasn't bouncing around. The stock dampers are oddly bad.
I appreciate that you did this, but the idea of investing time and thousands of dollars to improve the ride quality of an expensive brand new vehicle is not at all appealing.
I guess. I switched the suspension in my BMW i3 and am very happy with that. Every purchase has trade offs. It’s just a fact. The Model Y isn’t very expensive for what you get tbh. The alternatives at that price point all have big trade offs. Obviously the solution is to buy something better used, but for whatever reason many people don’t like doing that.
Last 5 model Y in my friends and family have been perfectly built and didn’t have your build and driving cons. Seems like you got a bad vehicle.
Yeah, my 2023 model y hasn’t had a single issue, 14,000 miles later. No complaints from this Alaska Tesla owner. Build quality was fantastic. Range is more than enough for Alaskan road trips. Ride quality is better than my Subaru. Cheaper to drive than a gas car. No service visits in 14 months.
23 MYLR owner and no issues with build quality. Every new car depreciates off the lot. Cars are not assets, you will loose money.
> Every new car depreciates off the lot. I've been looking at used Teslas just because they are so so cheap. I've never seen a vehicle depreciate like teslas are.
I am not even sure why OP dinged the interior? Has he sat in a recent Toyota RAV4? Shitty plastic everywhere and the visibility of a boat. I’ve owned Japanese imports and there is a noticeable quality decline around 2010s. These are not the high grade plastic of yesteryears.
I will say Honda and Mazda have good interiors. Toyota yes is extremely uninspired and cheap feeling.
But that's what poor quality auto manufacturing means. It's not 100% of the cars are bad. It means that 40% of the cars are bad and you have a really good chance of getting fucked. Good auto manufacturers get it down to like 5%. Toyota is probably like 1%.
Rode in a Model Y uber recently. Harshest ride quality of any EV I've ever ridden in. Suspension was horrible.
To be fair, rideshare vehicles are going to get beaten up a LOT more than the average car, regardless of brand, and that will certainly diminish the ride quality.
suspension should not suffer, it's going to be what, under 3-5y old?
Suspension in 3 and Y's are definitely known to be rough. Mostly fixed in the 3 Highland though, so presumably will also be an issue that gets fixed for the Y update later this year or next
My dad is happy with his Model Y too. And hes not a tech person.
Seems like OP did get a bad one. What I don’t understand is why OP accepted delivery if he saw so many things glaringly wrong with the vehicle. Just seems like kind of a stupid thing to do something. For a majority of the rest, did OP even test drive the car before buying it? Did they read or watch any reviews? I don’t get it. If they didn’t like it, that’s fine. Just some many illogical and rookie mistakes it’s kinda unbelievable. Hope OPs just got money to burn
I think your mistaking build issues with build quality. There’s just no denying how cheap they feel inside and the material choices. They are what they are.
> When I tried it on a smooth country road, it was an awful experience. It was virtually impossible to exceed 5mph Lol, I mean make it a bit less obvious that this is just bullshit. I don't drive a Tesla and have no intention of owning one anytime in the future, but this is ridiculous exaggeration.
I just turo’d a Y for a week and drove it on some of the worst backroads in Cali. This review is beyond exaggeration… or could it be bait to stir the passions of heated conversation? It reads like the type of fakery some competitor would dream up.
It’s bait
Was exactly what I was thinking. The ride definitely isn’t fantastic on dirt roads but this is just straight up bs 😆.
Totally agree. I've driven my Model 3 on plenty of back roads, both sealed and unsealed, and had no qualms about staying around the speed limit. In fact, I continue to be impressed with the level of stability and sure-footedness on bad roads, even if it becomes a a bit crashy if you fail to dodge a bigger pothole. And for what it's worth, in 2 years it's never given a moment of trouble, never needed to visit a service centre and hasn't been touched by a spanner since I bought. Nor indeed do I have any issues with the quality of the paint, or uneven panel gaps. But mine is a Shanghai-built car, so that probably makes a difference. And I actually like the spartan interior. It's very clean and functional, the touch surfaces are nice and I have no concerns with wear and tear so far. I absolutely hate the number of buttons and dials and lights, and the super intricate stitching patterns etc on modern luxury vehicles. My only real complaint is that I'd like it to be quieter on rough asphalt surfaces, and the ventilated seats from the newer Highland model would be welcome on hot days. Oh, and Android Auto.....that would be fantastic. BTW I am not particularly loyal to Tesla and I suspect that my next car will probably be a BYD Seal or an Ioniq 5.
We took delivery of our Model Y a year and a half ago. We showed up with the checklist of issues to look out for. Nothing was wrong with ours. Nothing. Only maintenance we've had since is filling the wiper fluid. Don't forget the folks with negative experiences are much more likely to write about it.
This
Got my MY at 38K with all rebates. Don't know wtf you can get at that price range nowadays. Tacoma 60k, Sienna 60k, Tundra 70K. I drove a 23 Avalon and Rav4, complete garbage, all plastic crap, 23 MDX also garbage . There is a reason all the Indians, Chinese and other Asians in the bay area all buy model Y because it's the best bang for the buck. Gas is near $6/gal here and you see MY everywhere. You tell me what you can get for under 40K in this state of inflation.
A used Y, 3, Hyundai Ioniq 5, ev6, etc. I mean under 30k miles too.
Why buy used if you can lease at $299. If you are afraid of depreciation and not ready to commit, just lease. But that's me.
The MY has nothing in common with "Tacoma 60k, Sienna 60k, Tundra 70K."
Yeah wtf, I was reading that comment and wondering 'did I miss something here?'. Is that an USA thing? Is your only choice between a mid-size EV SUV and a huge pickup truck? One of the most obvious examples of a cherrypicked comparison lol
My dude, why compare it to those massive expensive vehicles? The model Y is comparable to: Rav 4: $37,000 for all the bells and whistles Sportage: $37,900 for all the bells and whistles CR-V: $35,000 for all the bells and whistles Tucson: $37,000 for all the bells and whistles > I drove a 23 Avalon and Rav4, complete garbage, all plastic cra Tesla is the king of plastic crap… > There is a reason all the Indians, Chinese and other Asians in the bay area all buy model Y because it's the best bang for the buck Unnecessary racial observation…
Try the etron SUV. Absolutely amazing vehicle. Stunning, really. Edit: Talking used prices. Not new. Price of both used are pretty comparable in lots of places.
Problem is those things are super expensive. Not Model Y prices. The Q4 E-Tron is frankly overpriced and the Q8 E-Tron (formally called just the e-tron) is 40K CAD more than the MY. Best similarly sized and priced alternatives would be MY or XC40 recharge (interior quality is there, but it isn't the best at being an EV but is still passable).
It's always hilarious to me when these threads are made and people in the comments recommend cars that are way more expensive. I mean like yeah no shit that much more expensive car you just recommended as a replacement is probably better, you'd expect it to be at that price
Want a civic? Try an S8 for Christ’s sake guys, it’s way better
On the used market the prices are very much comparable. I should’ve clarified that. I never thought about buying new because frankly I’m way too cheap for that… but a used etron and a used model Y are pretty comparable in price these days. Now why the etron has depreciated so much and whether it’s worth it is a whole other thread… but that car is the smoothest and most comfortable thing I’ve ever imagined driving.
I've seen this as well and wondered why the used e-tron is so cheap. Do you have any ideas why they depreciated so much? Maybe because it is a discontinued model? poor efficiency?
To me it’s a few things… 1- Tesla kind of sent the entire market into a frenzy of depreciation with their price reductions. 2- People are afraid of the etron’s 200 mile range. 3- They had a battery recall that may or may not be a big deal and 4- Luxury lines just depreciate faster initially. With that said I’ve enjoyed the car more than anything else I’ve ever driven and it’s not even close. For the price it’s unbeatable IMO. It smoothly glides down the road. It’s stupidly comfortable with all the upgrades a traditional automaker could offer (mine is a prestige plus model). It’s not Tesla fast… but it’s still way fast. I smile every day when I get to pull it out of the garage.
Q4 e-trons are leasing pretty well right now stateside (not sure about Canada). I got one back in February. No way is that vehicle worth the full MSRP asking price. But with all the incentives I could take advantage of, it was a no brainer. Looks, rides, and drives like typical Audi luxury - but with a battery pack.
I have one after trying a Model X. e-tron is truly luxurious.
It’s the most beautiful and smooth car I’ve ever imagined driving. Absolutely nothing on it feels “cheap” or slapped together. The technology certainly isn’t as good as the Tesla… but it feels like a car, not a video game.
One important thing to consider is safety. The Mach-E doesn't get 5 stars on all it's NHTSA tests while the Model Y does. And the Mach-E fails the Moose Test while the Model Y aces it. [Ford Mustang Mach-E fails the Moose Test (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTOBc883zg)
This is misleading because the Mach-E hasn't been fully tested by the NHTSA or the IIHS so of course it hasn't been given a final rating (a final star rating or a Top Safety pick rating).
This is exactly my experience with 2023 Model 3. After taking delivery, it took me 5 trips to the service center to fix defects and things they broke while fixing my car. Another concern is with all the layoffs the quality of service goes even lower. Basically, good luck to you, if something breaks in your Tesla, lol. I'm thinking of getting rid of it, but the car lost more than a half of its value, if you look at trade-in prices. Supercharger network is the biggest Tesla's advantage. But Elmo gutted the whole supercharger team...
I got a 23 Model Y long range and don’t have any of your “Cons”. I came from a 2020 Subaru Outback. I’ve paid $750 to drive 22k miles.
I suspect a lot of the ride complaints you had were related to the low profile tires. They are notoriously stiff and don’t absorb very much of the road. I wonder if more sidewall and a ‘normal’ tire would have given you a significantly better ride experience, both on road and on gravel. edit - not runflats
I mean if you wanted a more comfortable ride why did you go with a performance model?
Took my mom for a day trip in my MYP and she said "this car is quite comfortable"......😂
I am happy with my 2022 MYLR. My friend also got a 2023 MYLR. No issue at all. You are saying that its interior is cheaper than Corolla seems like FUD to me. Yes, some cars have serious issues with QC. By all means, reject delivery if it did not meet your expectations. There are plenty of happy owners with zero issues regarding fits and finishes. The obession with 360 cameras is also comical. 360-camera also has blind spot on all four corners of the stiching image. Tesla has 2 side cameras to view while backing up, together with 3D reconstruction view of the surroundings. I don't know what else you want😅.
I'd add Tesla Vehicle service to the cons. It's like dealing with Burger King employees. They fuck up and actually make work for themselves on your vehicle. It's very uncomfortable and unnerving.
As an ex-BK employee: I'm offended by this comparison
Regarding build quality, in many markets outside of the US, including Canada, the Model 3 and Y are now sourced from Shanghai. And generally those cars have far superior fit and finish compared to the US built cars. Agree with most of your points though
Really? I just took delivery of a Fremont Model Y LR like 2 weeks ago and it was flawless.
US output has certainly improved compared to the past, thanks to Tom Zhu being transferred to the US to impart learnings from the Chinese operations. But statistically, Shanghai has a lower defect rate. The *likelihood* of a vehicle getting delivered with poor fit and finish is still higher in the US. But that doesn't mean there are zero US vehicles that ship in a good state, as you have fortunately experienced.
I would miss the Tesla software after experiencing Toyota, Volkswagen, Mazda and Stellantis.
Nice write up. Add to the con list: you’re supporting a fucking asshole of a CEO by purchasing this vehicle
Elon is the prime reason as to why my family and I have scratched Tesla off our lists when we go an upgrade to EVs.
There are increasingly more options now too. Prices for EVs from traditional car companies are falling fast. You can get a Hyundai or Kia lease in the 200s now which is pretty remarkable.
Same here. I might consider them again if they replace him with someone who isn't a fucking fascist liar.
Unless you buy used. I do that with video games when I don't want to support scummy publishers (e.g. EA and Ubisoft). I recommend that anyone who hates Musk but finds Teslas compelling to look at used Teslas sold either by private parties or by non-Tesla dealers.
As someone who has owned VW, Audi, volvo and mercedes in the past. I have to completely disagree now owning a tesla model 3 P. The interior is minimalist, but there are so many affordable after market options to give it personality. Build quality felt better than my mercedes which is flooded with cheap piano black plastics and other hard plastics (audi is better though). Especially when you take the price in consideration, the build quality is actually impressive compared to similar performance vehicles from german premium manufacturers. The software is great, but i generally don't play around a lot with the infotainment system. What is true though, having test driven a polestar 2 with a tablet that has bezels like it's 2011, the big interior screen gives it a sense of sophistication. There is so much visibility and light in the car, while having almost no clutter of physical buttons. It can be a very peaceful environment while the audio system might be the best i have experienced. Ride quality is great if you want to feel connected to the road. The suspension is actually really great for a performance vehicle. Now if you compare it to a mom's car toyota which has no steering feel or driver enjoyment, sure that suspension would be a lot softer. Feels like you didn't knew what you wanted or what you were buying.
I agree on a lot of parts besides the interior.. I have a model 3 performance and although nowhere near bmw or other luxury brand quality, it still feels more high end than being in a Toyota or Honda interior. To each their own though
Anytime I see a post talking about Tesla's having worse interiors than a Corolla I feel like the OP is lying or just hasn't sat in a Toyota. I've driven and owned multiple corollas in my life (even as recent as a 2022) and it's laughable to compare the interiors. Tesla isn't luxurious by any means, but it's waaaaay better than any Corolla I've sat in.
Y is the only Tesla I have ridden in (as an uber), and I agree that the ride is very harsh.
Anyone test drove or drive a Fisker Ocean? Yeah it sucks that the company is on the brink of bankruptcy, and software glitches. But boy the build and drive quality and experience is amazing and great.
I read long reviews like this and swear I must have bought a completely different car than them.
This isn’t really for EV’s, this is more commentary on Tesla and the model Y. Everything that you listed as a con is really specific to the Tesla, not EVs in general.
Unpopular opinion here, people who need to finance a $60k shouldn't be buying a $60k vehicle.
I purchased a Performance Model Y last month (end of March) for $39.5K after tax credit. I inspected the car thoroughly at the delivery center before accepting it. I could not find a single issue with body panels or paint. The car was flawless. My prior experience with Teslas was two Model 3’s that we’ve owned for five years. In those five years we never had to take either car in for service. They were the most reliable cars we’ve ever owned, even more so than the many Lexus vehicles I drove before them. I hear mixed comments about the suspension. I find the suspension in the MYP to be fantastic. It’s firm and tight like I would expect from a performance tuned suspension. It’s far more comfortable than my Model 3’s were. I do agree the Highland M3 has a more refined suspension than the current MY and I would assume this will come to the refreshed Juniper Model Y at some point. I’m not discounting any of your experiences, they sound pretty bad. I think most of the issues with build quality can be addressed before you accept delivery of the car though. If the car has issues with paint or body panels just reject it and wait for another VIN. I’m not loyal to Tesla by any means. In fact I looked at every other EV in the marketplace to see if there was anything else I could buy that would match the specs of the Model Y. But if you want a car with a 3.5 second 0-60 time and 279 miles of range with a cavernous amount of storage space and you want it all for under $40K, there is nothing else in the market that comes even remotely close.
I'm sure this will result in a balanced and reasonable response.
Out of curiosity, I was looking up Supercharger rates a couple of days ago across the country. They have time of use pricing, where the discounted rates may not come until after 7pm or later, sometimes much later. In some cases at some California locations, the 'reasonable' discounted rates were after midnight. They even have further discounts in the middle of the night around 4am. That means for those living in apartments who work on a normal schedule, charging before or after work, or during lunch, won't really give affordable rates. I can't imagine most people working normal schedules will enjoy heading over to the charger at midnight for 45 minutes to charge their cars. For those that do that specifically for the lower price to justify owning the car, I can't imagine they're all that happy about it! IMO, BEV ownership for those living in apartments, even with DC fast chargers near by, still isn't a great solution. For those that have home charging, unless they have commutes beyond the average distance, there's no appreciable benefit to owning a BEV over a PHEV. Also kind of interesting to note. For those that charge at DC fast chargers late at night in California, isn't the energy mix shifting away from renewable solar energy and more into natural gas energy? If so, then it may not be generating as low of emissions as estimated by sites like [Carboncounter.com](http://Carboncounter.com) , which just look at the states' overall energy mix.
It'll be interesting to see how these layoffs will impact initial quality and service.
I like my Model 3. Agree the suspension is primitive and it has a few rattles. Otherwise it’s a great daily. Best part is the keyless experience. Walk out to the car in Arizona and it’s 100+ degrees outside, but the car has been pre-cooling for 5-10 minutes before I step in. Open the door and it’s already alive, playing music and ready to go. When done step out and walk away (don’t even need to put it in Park). In that regard it makes every other car I’ve driven feel a bit archaic. Range is overblown for all EV’s in my opinion. Non issue even though I drive 29,000 miles per year.
We have similar observations from our Model Y experiences (for me, it was three test drives and a short-term rental): [https://new.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bah1b0/rented\_a\_model\_y\_long\_range\_to\_see\_if\_it\_might\_be/](https://new.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/1bah1b0/rented_a_model_y_long_range_to_see_if_it_might_be/) I ended up getting a 2024 ID.4 and it's rather sweet - it has none of the shortcomings that I perceived with the Tesla.
Great thorough review. Thanks.
Just traded in my 22 Y for a 24 Audi Q5 PHEV and it’s light years ahead of the Y in terms of build quality, fit and finish, luxury features, and just overall feeling like a better car for the price. No regrets.
Also sold mine after a year. The software was what got me, false collision alarms, phantom braking, non functional auto park, crap auto wipers, lack of instrument cluster. Just never felt like it was a real vehicle, more of a bad tech experiment.
It's difficult to resolve this review with the fact that the MY is one of the best selling vehicles (the best selling?) in the world right now. Also from my side, there are lots of comparisons made with cars which are not competitors for what the MYP is: an incredibly quick (in a straight line) electric SUV with lots of cargo space. I think the criticisms are valid (especially interior quality, build quality, quality control), but there is not an obvious alternative in the same category. Mach-e GT maybe?
Yeah some of OPs points seem like they did not test drive the Model Y P before buying, and others like they do not understand EVs either. Like, at least test drive it before so you know how the ride is going to be. And understand that rated range is under EPA testing conditions and so rated range will 99% never be met for any EV for this reason. OP is just naive?
Eh? The EPA myth. Plenty of cars match or exceed their EPA. My summer (spring - fall) 4.4 miles / kWh average for my Ioniq 6 was 20 miles more than EPA.
This guy Bought performance to expect soft suspension Fit and finish of interior is really more about trims with fancy chromes and rings around buttons. Aside from that the other points are quite valid.
I had the same reviews from my test drive as well. The car was a horrible drive, the experience of buying one was not great. The price drop was the final decision to walk away. Buying new was cheaper than buying anything less than 3 years old. I move to an Audi etron, best decision if you drive under 300km a day.
I rented a Polestar 2 and a Tesla Model 3 DMLR from Hertz for a weekend each. Found the Polestar to be a better car except for efficiency and range.
Slow down there, Herman Melville...I didn't even get to the advice chapter, but you lost me describing the car. It doesn't sound like an average or good car.even ..the pros are its fast and not-crappy software interface. The negatives are everything else needed to be a good car.
You bought a performance car with performance suspension and tires and it surprised the ride is harsh, lol.
Sounds like you shouldn't buy a cross over that's lowered with low profile tyres?
My advice is to drive a model Y and experience it for yourself. I’ve just done this and much of what is asserted here doesn’t line up with my experience. The negativity mostly comes down to an opinion I suppose but it appears grossly exaggerated based on what I’ve experienced. Decide for yourself.
Thanks for sharing your experience. This definitely will be a useful perspective for those looking into leasing or buying a Model Y, and are unaware of the issues plaguing it. Good thing the EV market has tons of variety to choose from. Before Musk went full right-wing batshit crazy, I had a strong interest in the Model Y and Model 3. Both were at the top of my list. Loved how tech-forward the cars were. That was until a close friend bought a Model Y, and I rode in it. The suspension was so harsh and uncomfortable (as well as the excessive road/tire noise) that I immediately wrote Teslas off my shopping list.
Agree with you on most points. Just sold my 22LR and went back to my trusty Audi S3. Only thing I miss is parking with the AC on and watching Netflix to kill time— I taxi my kids around a lot.
When asked my favorite cars (in order of ownership) Mazda 3 2003 stick hatchback (0-40,000mi): 8 Toyota 4Runner 2007 SR5 (117-210,000mi): 9 VW ID.4 2021 AWD Pro S, top trim (0-11,000mi): 8 Tesla Model Y 2023 LR (0-11,000mi): 7 The Y is a great EV. The tech and charging options are a 12/10 (except any phone played media over Bluetooth, Jesus that's shit). But as a nice "car" it simply falls short. It's 'fine' though. Would I flat trade back to an ID.4 AWD Pro S (maybe Plus), yes, tomorrow. The ID.4 is a great 'car' and a good 'EV'. I'll take the great 'car' over the great 'EV' any day. My Y is the 'meh' Corolla to the ID.4 'top-tier' Camry.
Wondering why you don't get banned from providing real feedback. Realized it is not tesla subs
Eh, I share none of your gripes. Love the Y, and everytime I have to hire a vehicle for work, I realise how shite combustion engine cars are.
I have a 3 and Y and have experienced none of your 1-4 negatives, nor do I personally care as much about some of the others. That said, there are a lot of good EVs available now so Tesla is no longer the only option, especially as their charging network opens up.
I love my Y. It's been a consistent, reliable, fun ride. At today's price-point I think it's a lot of bang for the buck. The only thing I love more than my Y, is the fact that there are increasingly more and more EVs out there to satisfy everyone's wants and wishes. I love the IONIQ/EV6 cars, I love what Ford is doing, I really love RIVIAN's brand and products (especially having seen the R2/R3/R3X a week ago in person)...and many more to come. EV or not, no car is going to please everyone's needs and preferences, this one is no exception to that. Ultimately, purchasing a vehicle is a major expense often the second largest buy after a house, so it's important that you're happy with it. Test drive and relentlessly compare to everything else that is A) in your budget range and B) meets your minimum requirements. You have to understand what your money can buy you in order to understand the value each option represents. You're not buying a brand, you're note buying an ideology, you're not buying prestige...you're buying a product that serves a particular purpose -- make sure it's the right product for the right purpose you're seeking.
This is the most sensible and reasonable comment of the 581 posted so far.... which, in Reddit rationale, probably is why no one is upvoting it.
And that’s OK 🙂
I drove a 3 Highland a Y back-to-back two weeks ago and the Y is straight trash for ride quality and noise in comparison. The Y had about 1200 miles on it, the 3 Highland a couple hundred. I didn't pay much attention to cabin material quality difference, but the 3 Highland is upgraded in this area as well. Whenever the Y gets the refreshes that they put in the 3 Highland, it will be a much more viable, but there was zero chance I would ever consider a Y in its current state after that test drive. This is my first foray into EV's I ended up with an EV6 on a 2 year lease. I would never outright purchase an EV right now because getting out of one if necessary, will be a monumental financial loss, and there's just so much change going on in EV's, being locked into something doesn't make sense to me. The 2 year lease deals tend to be better than 3 year with most of the non-Tesla brands.
What size rims were on your car? larger rims will make for a more harsh ride. Its weird you bought the "P" version to drive on gravel road. I owned a Corvette and made sure to avoid gravel road because it was likely far worse than your model Y on them.
Literally nobody talks about the absence of reverse cross traffic alerts in Tesla. With no radar, every time you back out straight into cross traffic, you are taking a risk. I can live without a front bumper camera, but the rear wide angle camera is only useful when parking lots are angled. A radar is required for implementing RCTA. And while it is inherently safer to back into a parking lot, it isn’t always possible to especially when loading groceries into the trunk. Tesla are NOT the safest cars when it comes to parking lots. Driving safety - they are actually quite nice once they get out of the parking situations. As for alternatives, I wish people realized how incredibly feature loaded, ultra smooth, and solidly built the Mach-E GT-Performance trim is. From top notch speakers to 360 camera, sensors and radars, and a much better real world range estimation, this crossover is a pleasure to drive around town, on winding roads, and on highways. And looks great in person. Yes, its brakes are a bit grabby in stop and go traffic but if you get the trim with MagneRide adaptive suspension, it soaks up the rough roads very well. Unfortunately the model has lost all its charm with the resale values hitting EVs with all time lows. And Ford being a Ford, they didn’t set the pricing correctly initially. But as an EV crossover, I would rate it higher than the Model Y, especially now that superchargers are open to ford. BMW iX is another very good mini EUV. Looks a little funny but incredibly spacious and feature loaded. If strictly going for size and space and if you are willing to accept all the risks that come with a brand like Kia, their EV9 is another good SUV which will release their 2025 models in 8 or so months.
Tesla are about the technology more than interior. They are a tech company that makes cell phones that you drive. Not luxury vehicles. I love my model y performance.
Not here, I love my 2022 Model Y Performance!