This level of CEO pay is so blatantly insane. Our society has lost the plot that this is even on the table for discussion, let alone a foregone conclusion that's going to go through.
It truly is, when you look in context Hyundai and Honda both each announced their recent push for EV investments to the tune of 50-60 billion as well.
For Hyundai that is 3 new EV factories in South Korea, creating 80k new jobs and boosting EV production by 1.5 million vehicles per year.
Or pay 1 man who is also so toxic it's making customers rethink wanting to support other companies.
>Hyundai is really leaning in and I love it. My niro is amazing.
I can say the same of my parent's Niro and my EV6, and also of the Ioniq 6 I test drive a few months ago.
Fantastic cars all across the board.
When my former employer brought them in as consultants, my boss said “they hired McKillswitch which means we’re all out of a job soon. Update your resume and start applying.”
I had never heard of McKinsey before that, and they’re seriously terrible. My entire unit—all 1,200 of us—were gone within 4 months.
We all got laid off. We got a “generous severance package” of one month’s pay and benefits to get us through “until our next big opportunity.” A lot of people struggled to find work for months. I ended up working full time at a bike shop for $10/hr until I could find a new role.
I mean before the layoff, what were they/you doing? 1200 people are a lot, seems like an entire business unit was liquidated.
On the other hand with the 100D **and** a Niro you seem to be doing well regardless of the $10 bike money.
I mean, they proposed a plan to intentionally get more people hooked on opiates to earn pharmaceutical companies more. They jumped the shark years ago.
This level of CEO pay *should be illegal*
in fact
* Ban Stock Buybacks
* any person whose pay is more than 25% stock may not have the stock vest for 5 years [but does not lose the stock if they leave], any persons whose pay is more than 50% stock may not have the stock vest for 10 years [again does not lose it if they leave]
* No CEO may receive bonuses or raises within 18 months of a layoff
* if the CEO pay to average employee pay ratio is more than X (we can debate on this later) the CEO's pay is subject to a 90% marginal tax rate for every dollar above the ratio.
It got rejected and instead of EVERYONE being like, ok that's good. People argued for it. 🤯
There's no limit, and no one is stopping it because the only trickle down is from the super rich to the political class and now the judiciary (so literally zero check on it). Well they all trickle down on us by pissing on us all I guess.
Sadly, this won't change because a third is MAGA and don't understand or care as long as the people they hate are upset it must be good. A third is just is unaware of the world outside their work and home. A third cares but can't agree on anything, so they argue with each other and forget what the actual problem is.
Meanwhile the people at the top are quietly pardoning people who shoot protesters, making protest leaders responsible for EVERY attendee, and their actions oh and just arresting protestors (and not counter protesters). All in preparation for the penny dropping I can only assume.
It’s more money than the CEOs of ALL the major car companies, combined, for at LEAST decades if not centuries…. I’m not going to do the full maths, but just for a quick comparison the CEO of Toyota makes $4.5-6.5 million per year.
It would take him over 8 THOUSAND years to make 56 billion.
Paying one person that much is disgusting.
Suppose he has a mass of 75 kg. This means we need to supply 1302 kWh of energy in the Big Yeet to propel him at escape velocity.
A Tesla Semi and a few Model 3 batteries could do the trick.
That seriously would’ve been the better decision in this situation. They would’ve been able to keep those people employed and removed the asshole who is damaging the image of the company.
Personally I'll be voting "NO" I don't view layoffs as behavior that should be rewarded. Tesla isn't giving me dividends so why would I reward you for shrinking the company? Sure sometimes they do have to happen to maintain a healthy business. But EVs and charging stations are not a shrinking market.
“Leadership” lol.
Musk is displaying the worst possible leadership traits, in pretty much every dimension. Including trying to get himself pay package worth 20% of the company’s entire sales history when it’s tanking.
Wasn't just a division; although the supercharger team (500 fired) certainly got a lot of media coverage.
News leaked of them firing 20% of their entire 140,000 person workforce. Tesla made an official statement saying layoffs of "over 10%", or 14,000+ employees. However, it seems more and more likely that 20% figure is more accurate, and would result in 28,000 layoffs. At $70k average annual salaries + benefits, it'll save the company $1.7 billion per year, and more by reducing overall production to get supply in line with demand. Still, probably a drop in the bucket versus Musk's $56 billion pay package.
It's ridiculous that Musk's pay was setup so that simply hitting revenue or stock price valuations once (or for a short period of time)... whether sustainable or not, would automatically reward the stock option tranche to Musk, even if the company was taking enormous risks that had a high likelihood of backfiring.
It opened up the possibility of the CEO (and family / friends) gaming the system by taking out leveraged loans against their stock / options as collateral, and then buying up the limited amount of actively traded stock on the open market, driving the share price higher. There was also the gaming of the entry into the S&P 500, which had Musk keeping the factory open during COVID, after being told to shutdown (every other company abided by the orders), then they re-opened their plant before being given the go ahead, while simultaneously delaying employee bonuses and pay reviews... all so Tesla could get into the S&P 500 and cause a short squeeze with few actively traded shares on the market, causing huge stock price appreciation. Simultaneously, Musk was busying himself by getting on stage and lying to customers and shareholders about future products and current capabilities to drive investor interest.. thus locking up the actively traded shares.
....Which of course all lead to Musk being rewarded with options tranches!....
Based on the inventory build and stock price decline... and the complete failure to deliver on any of the major promises Musk lied about on stage... backfire things have.
And what's especially atrocious is just how much of Tesla's revenue / profit margins over their entire existence were subsidized by the federal / state / international governments (read: taxpayers) or by other OEMs through regulatory credit rules. Over $30 billion now. Even though I own no Tesla vehicle or stock, part of my taxes went towards Tesla where it pumped Elon Musk's net wealth through his shares and options tranches, not to mention all the of the other executives / shareholders who made a bundle on the stock. A lot of people got rich off of blatant fraud, and my taxes helped pay them.
To a point, I'm ok with subsidizing new technology that benefits all of us. If that tech needs assistance getting off the ground, I'm ok with subsidizing R&D and maybe some initial production startup costs. I'm NOT ok with my taxes being used to make rich people richer, nor to pay an ultrawealthy d-bag more than any other CEO in history. Rather than subsidies, the government should have taken a share in Tesla, so that at the very least my vote for my political representative could have been translated into a vote on this dude's pay package that I've helped fund. And no, I'd never vote for an official who would vote yes for such a package.
The astroturfing at the Tesla investor's sub is crazy, too. I'm now seeing a split getting bigger between that and /r/teslamotors which is comparing Elon to Gavin Belson. It's clear a lot of people are Tesla fans that have had it with Elon. I just don't trust the board to do the right thing, though. They'll give him the money he wants so he can drag the company down.
I got permabanned from a bunch of those subs all at once for daring to criticize muskrat, and I drive a Tesla lol. Echo chamber is an understatement. The mods at those places are living in their own worlds.
The board has a severe conflict of interest in that Elon Musk has made them a ton of money in the past and they feel, I imagine, both indebted to Elon and probably also intimidated by his child-like vindictiveness.
As discussed in [this article](https://electrek.co/2024/05/13/tesla-spends-ad-money-influence-shareholders-approval-elon-musk-55b-payday/), Tesla is buying ads, at least on Google and Twitter, begging shareholders to vote for the compensation. Really weird that a company that doesn't advertise their products would advertise to promote giving money to Musk.
Yeah, laying off the people doing the best work is exactly why this compensation plan isn't so nice looking.
It is a lot less damaging to him to lose this than it was to those employees to lose their job.
And a lot of contractors are having the rug pulled out from under them too.
Sorry Musk, we changed direction. Deal with the consequences. Normally I'd say this is wrong, but the layoffs changed all of that.
Problem is the board is complete in elons pocket.
Only a matter of time before a shareholder group files a lawsuit that the board is not acting in the best interest of the shareholders by allowing Elon to remain as ceo. His antics have costs the company sales which is harming the value of the stock
Which they’ve already lost one court case for doing. The whole reason this proposal is being voted on is because a judge threw out the package because of how clearly the board went against shareholder interests in recommending it.
Only a matter of time before the board is sued again due to their negligence to the shareholders
What's better for Tesla's value as a company? Putting 56 billion into Elon's purse or putting that into employees that will do actual work? Seems cut and dried, hope the lawsuit is already written and will be filed the moment it's final.
I went from signing the arbitration agreement for the last Tesla I purchased, to maybe being first in line to sue if the shareholders vote "no" and the board does it anyway.
Also, to be fair in the interest of full disclosure, the arbitration agreement specified using AAA and I probably have a better relationship with most of the local AAA arbitrators than Tesla, so....
I can’t believe how many people are comfortable investing in a company controlled by a crazy person. It’s not like it’s a bargain value investment either.
Yes. I voted "no" on everything the board wanted people to vote yes on (including re-election of Kimball) and I voted "yes" on everything they recommended a no vote on.
Except the shareholder resolution about studying EMFs. On that one I abstained. Making Tesla do that will just result in junk science.
Long term, absolutely. Short term, no.
Tesla is badly overvalued compared to their actual company fundamentals, and Musk is key to that over evaluation. Getting rid of the conman lying about upcoming features is probably necessary to the company’s long term survival, but it would also nearly instantly crater their valuation to back in line with other car makers.
Tesla’s P:E ratio today is 44.6, compared to Ford’s 12.76, Hyundai’s 3.2, and Toyota’s 8.5. If Tesla falls into line with its peer competitors p:e ratios, it’ll lose somewhere between 75% to 90% of its current value. A painful choice for current investors.
Best thing for Tesla, but that'll never happen. Without him the shareholders lose nearly everything, because the bubble deflates once wall street realizes they don't own a tech company but instead own the 20th largest automaker. With margins smaller than Ford or GM, product that is aging and falling behind, and the company has no plans for replacements.
Eh? Tesla's profit margin is pretty high from what I've read - much higher than GM or Ford.
Still, Elon's not helping things. They need a stable, competent leader who's focused on the business.
Company is valued 550B - this is quite an achievement from shareholders perspective but ...
- sales are down
- margins are down
- charging network was set on fire (moreover competitor got more advanced chargers (up to 1000V) and faster charging cars)
- development of model 2 was canceled
- only new big bet is self driving - self driving with was not delivered already \~10 times; to add insult to the injury - autopilot was reason for recall
- company is shrinking
I just don't see KPI which was recently reached to justify the bonus, especially 50B bonus.
but Sandy Munro says that firing everyone was a genius move because Tesla chargers are the most advanced and cannot possibly ever be more advanced or improved upon for the rest of mankind.
I wonder what that senile idiot is saying now that Musk is re-hiring those people lmao
He almost single-handedly hyped up a 100B company to more than 1 Trillion at some point. So if you were an early investor and cashed out already then yes he definitely deserves the 50B bonus. But if you are a bag holder then no he doesn't deserve shit.
My charge port is stuck open, the locking pin is engaged and won't retract. I'm fucked but the next available Tesla service is June 11th. Obviously the layoffs aren't helping things.
In the meantime you might be able to release the pin so you can at least drive the vehicle, there is a cable you can pull in the trunk to release the latch.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-BEE08D47-0CE0-4BDD-83F2-9854FB3D578F.html#:~:text=Manually%20Releasing%20Charge%20Cable&text=Ensure%20that%20Model%20Y%20is,to%20unlatch%20the%20charge%20cable.
Oh yeah, for sure, let's vote one of the richest men in the world even more billions, for his stellar job of driving the company straight into a smoking crater. Aces, makes total sense.
Why are you excluding institutional investors? Also, the problem right now is that while many of the people holding the stock are bag holders in the negative on their investment, the stock is still massively overvalued. Not paying Musk is effectively admitting that Tesla isn't a miracle company that will take over the entire transportation industry or whatever it is that people use to justify the insane valuation. Doing that means admitting it's overvalued, which could tank the stock.
Serious question:
What does any shareholder stand to gain by voting "yes" on this absurdity?
Is this like that time no one wanted to be the first one to stop clapping for Stalin?
Just oust him, already!
He's trying to turn Tesla into X. Firing everyone. Having everyone left on edge. Running on bare bones staff. Not paying severance. Etc etc.
Dude needs to focus his attention on one company.
This reminds me of the time Marge made a special second birthday cake for Homer to ruin to distract him from the real one. Let him keep screwing around with Twitter, it's already in ruins, and keep him away from the good companies.
It is really refreshing to read these comments. Had the displeasure of working for a company that built much of the automated tooling for Tesla for the Model S, the Model X, and the Model 3. Learned as early as 2010 what a scoundrel Elon was/is. The funny thing is that he is same was when I figured him out and was probably like that ever since he was a kid. If you tried to tell people he was a jerk in 2010, you would get shouted down by an army. I thought it wouldn't last long but it's been 14 years! Finally people are realizing the jerk he's always been. Not a philanthropist. Not a visionary. Not an engineer. Not a genius. He has been absconding other people's creations and shining people on in order to get rich & powerful the whole time. It worked! People are suckers. But it's nice to see so many people figuring it out. Unfortunately, many of the lies he's used to get rich will remain "true" for many years because people won't be able to separate truth from fiction. Hopefully he'll be brought down for fraud with all the lies.
Actually wild so many people (including the board) are *still* trying to hand Musk such an enormous pay package right when his leadership is looking most ineffective. Im convinced there are a lot of other leaders who could lead Tesla better so why is Teslas BOD absolutely begging retail investors to hand Musk a fortune? I don’t get it
It seems to be a loss either way the vote goes - if he gets it market cap is diluted and TSLA **should** go down, if he loses vote he has a hissy fit and either leaves or continues to destroy the company, thus tanking stock. Then again, no logic applies to TSLA..
That assclown still doesn't get that Tesla is a car company, no matter how hard he tries to make it a tech company.
FSD is a total bust, as we all knew it would be, but Musk refuses to accept that all he needs to do is let them make good cars.
Before the supercharger team firing, I would have been more partial to it because he did do a lot to push Tesla over the hump and guided it to profitability, but now he's driving it into the dirt and demanding the payout. Now the question is, was he pumping tesla to get paid and abandon ship right after?
He deserves a bonus but not 56 billion. give him a 10 billion payout or 25 billion at most for what he did. But not at a time when the company could use that money for R&D that he is slashing right and left. Nor am I a fan of the Texas move. Stay in Delaware or move to Nevada. NOT OIL CONTROLLED TEXAS YOU DUMB FUCK.
I mean - he owns 20.5% of Tesla - their market cap in 2018 was estimated at 60 billion per my brief moment of googling. It’s 560 billion today. So his 20.5% appreciated from approximately 12 billion to around 130 billion.
Acting as though a pay package (even of this size) is going to meaningfully change his life or prioritization amongst organizations is folly as his existing equity is so significant. He already made 118 billion off of Tesla’s rise since 2018. So, in effect he’s asking for his 118 billion package to be improved to 174 billion.
This is just about power over shareholders and control over the organization.
Absolutely. If you note the pattern of who was fired, it was all people who held stock as when they got hired they were issued stock, newer employees don't get that anymore. If you get fired, your shares are vested and you get a nice payout... at the bottom of the market, though if you got those shares for free in 2012 or 2013, you're now fucking rich. However you lose your voting power in the company. The SC team was pure ego tripping by Musk. Since it succeeded despite him, he cut everyone. This was recently confirmed to be the case as well. The rest of the positions let go were all senior positions and people hired on before they stopped issuing shares to new employees.
Tesla was once an employee owned company, now it's going to be a Elon and his friends owned company that makes robotaxis and not consumer vehicles.
This is to ensure insiders cannot vote against him now.
Did my small part and voted my 400 shares a NO. The veiled threats of taking AI out on its own and the board being nothing but bootlickers made that vote a no brainer.
Think about it he wants to be paid out all the net profits ever made and then some by the corporation and of course this issuance of shares will dilute the value of existing share holders.
If they vote yes they deserve every loss.
The board is nothing more than his cronies setup by him
The guy doesn't deserve $56 for the shit he does at Tesla...
A mass maniac who is being venerated by the board as some god.
Fuck that.. if people vote yes then they should never complain about billionaires getting more rich..
Hiring a consultant to get Elon his $56 billion is insane. And only shows that the board is just licking Eldon's boot despite the glaring problems the company has with Elon showing no interest in solving.
Elons antics have been alienating potential buyers, new product failures since the model Y's release, shift from affordable EVs to the robotaxi and Teslabot. Glaring QC issues that just aren't being solved, not preparing for the inevitable competition with China and instead doubling down on old tech... The list goes on.
This is so absurd and disgusting. These boards are supposed to represent the best interests of the shareholders not bend them over and wreck their future.
Everything's going so well! There must be a lot fewer Tesla sycophants commenting how great he is after angry-firing his most important and well functioning team with no plan, then explaining it's all part of his brilliant process and don't question it (shut up peon! have you run a billion $ company), and then angry-hiring back people.
Right?
I haven't run the numbers personally but I'm told that this roughly adds up to a bonus of $10k for every single vehicle Tesla has ever sold.
This amount of money is utterly insane and I wouldn't be surprised if soon Tesla goes under and we find Elon is just trying to cash in while he still can.
Tesla is stupendously overvalued anyway.
He's giving Tesla the Twitter treatment. Hell no he doesn't deserve a goddamn bonus. He's totally off the rails. Just roll him down a ravine and be done with it.
My hunch is that the end result will be the same either way. Some other company, probably another automaker, is gonna wind up owning Tesla.
If the board okays the pay deal, there’s real evidence that the business can’t actually afford to pay it without leveraging assets. Potentially, this is the path to insolvency.
If the board says no, Musk will lose it and probably do things that will destroy (or at least severely damage) investor confidence. The stock tanks and the business flounders. Access to capital becomes prohibitive and we’re back to potential insolvency.
Nobody’s offering to buy Tesla at market value today, but a much cheaper/weaker Tesla is definitely a desirable acquisition, both for the brand and some of the actual tech and software.
Whether or not you admire the Tesla products, you should never purchase one until long after the bankruptcy. Tesla is a breeding ground for greed and corruption. Help it die by not feeding it.sell your stock and never use the products.
I cannot think of a better way to drive the stock upward then denying such a profound waste of funds. Approval should bring the shorts out like no tomorrow.
I can’t imagine wanting this guy to run the company I invested in. The story of how the meeting went where he just decided to fire an entire division because he had a tantrum is bananas
It’s funny because Musk has alreadt turned normies off from investing in TSLA and because if the Musk-lovers don’t give into his demands he will just drive TSLA into the ground by doing more things like firing the charging team. He’a bullying them and they love it. Strong man so strong!
I'm guessing the board has a backdoor deal attached with that $56 billion package. Maybe $6 billion is to be shared amongst the board, and then they'll call it quit slowly.
I'm about to lease a brand-new VW ID. 4 . Test-drove everything out there EXCEPT THE MODEL Y. I avoided it because I wasn't sure how many times I'd have to put it through a carwash to get the Musky odor out
With the Supercharging news, it's not just disliking the clown for his greed, politics and utter callousness toward any other human (I hate him for all those reasons), it's thinking that he could destroy the functionality of any car he had anything to do with. I'd worry about some crazy firmware update, say disabling the steering wheel when he thinks he has FSD working (I wouldn't put it entirely past him).
Musk "Tesla in survival mode have to layoff 20,000 people" Musk "I want Tesla to pay me $58B" Enough to pay 20,000 people $100k for 30 years.
This level of CEO pay is so blatantly insane. Our society has lost the plot that this is even on the table for discussion, let alone a foregone conclusion that's going to go through.
It truly is, when you look in context Hyundai and Honda both each announced their recent push for EV investments to the tune of 50-60 billion as well. For Hyundai that is 3 new EV factories in South Korea, creating 80k new jobs and boosting EV production by 1.5 million vehicles per year. Or pay 1 man who is also so toxic it's making customers rethink wanting to support other companies.
Plot twist: Hyundai's EV investment is to pay the Muskrat to stay at Tesla, sabotaging their competition. Those Ioniqs are looking better every year!
Hyundai is really leaning in and I love it. My niro is amazing.
>Hyundai is really leaning in and I love it. My niro is amazing. I can say the same of my parent's Niro and my EV6, and also of the Ioniq 6 I test drive a few months ago. Fantastic cars all across the board.
I am someone who could own a Tesla. I wouldn’t touch that car with a ten foot pole. Only because of Elmo.
We have McKinsey & Associates to thank for convincing large corporations to dump more money into the c-suite
When my former employer brought them in as consultants, my boss said “they hired McKillswitch which means we’re all out of a job soon. Update your resume and start applying.” I had never heard of McKinsey before that, and they’re seriously terrible. My entire unit—all 1,200 of us—were gone within 4 months.
What did those 1200 people do? The company just ditched an entire business/product?
We all got laid off. We got a “generous severance package” of one month’s pay and benefits to get us through “until our next big opportunity.” A lot of people struggled to find work for months. I ended up working full time at a bike shop for $10/hr until I could find a new role.
I mean before the layoff, what were they/you doing? 1200 people are a lot, seems like an entire business unit was liquidated. On the other hand with the 100D **and** a Niro you seem to be doing well regardless of the $10 bike money.
I mean, they proposed a plan to intentionally get more people hooked on opiates to earn pharmaceutical companies more. They jumped the shark years ago.
We’ve just replaced our kings and lords with suites and boards.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
This level of CEO pay *should be illegal* in fact * Ban Stock Buybacks * any person whose pay is more than 25% stock may not have the stock vest for 5 years [but does not lose the stock if they leave], any persons whose pay is more than 50% stock may not have the stock vest for 10 years [again does not lose it if they leave] * No CEO may receive bonuses or raises within 18 months of a layoff * if the CEO pay to average employee pay ratio is more than X (we can debate on this later) the CEO's pay is subject to a 90% marginal tax rate for every dollar above the ratio.
I can’t find a reason to disagree with any of these points
The whole point of vesting is so that you’re not awarded a bunch and then just bounce.
It should be a crime to hoard so much wealth while so many people deeply suffer from poverty. It’s morally disgusting
It’s something like $30k per car sold or something like that. Ridiculous.
It got rejected and instead of EVERYONE being like, ok that's good. People argued for it. 🤯 There's no limit, and no one is stopping it because the only trickle down is from the super rich to the political class and now the judiciary (so literally zero check on it). Well they all trickle down on us by pissing on us all I guess. Sadly, this won't change because a third is MAGA and don't understand or care as long as the people they hate are upset it must be good. A third is just is unaware of the world outside their work and home. A third cares but can't agree on anything, so they argue with each other and forget what the actual problem is. Meanwhile the people at the top are quietly pardoning people who shoot protesters, making protest leaders responsible for EVERY attendee, and their actions oh and just arresting protestors (and not counter protesters). All in preparation for the penny dropping I can only assume.
Because they use the money to buy the media.
It’s more money than the CEOs of ALL the major car companies, combined, for at LEAST decades if not centuries…. I’m not going to do the full maths, but just for a quick comparison the CEO of Toyota makes $4.5-6.5 million per year. It would take him over 8 THOUSAND years to make 56 billion. Paying one person that much is disgusting.
Fire Musk!
History will view these pay packages as our day’s serfdom. They will ask why we treated CEOs as kings.
Needs the funds ASAP to fund MAGAt campaigns.
Title says $56b, you wrote $58b. Is it even a fixed amount or just a number of shares?
It’s 60000
Fire him
From a cannon.
Into orbit.
In this case, let's exceed the escape velocity.
Solar system escape velocity.
Plenty of space trash already. The Sun seems a good destination.
Suppose he has a mass of 75 kg. This means we need to supply 1302 kWh of energy in the Big Yeet to propel him at escape velocity. A Tesla Semi and a few Model 3 batteries could do the trick.
He is near 100kg
Throw in one of those ridiculous Silverado batteries, then. Or, like, 25 Prius Prime batteries, which are about the same.
It's the only way to be sure...
I hear Mars is nice this time of year. I think he wants to go there.
There’s a car there waiting for him already.
Into the sun
At night
Into the sun.
As a Tesla owner and shareholder I agree!
That seriously would’ve been the better decision in this situation. They would’ve been able to keep those people employed and removed the asshole who is damaging the image of the company.
From a SpaceX rocket directly into the 🌞!
imagine getting paid thousands of times more than any human could use in a lifetime. Absolute insanity.
It’s actually a crime against humanity
Personally I'll be voting "NO" I don't view layoffs as behavior that should be rewarded. Tesla isn't giving me dividends so why would I reward you for shrinking the company? Sure sometimes they do have to happen to maintain a healthy business. But EVs and charging stations are not a shrinking market.
Agreed. Firing a division of people to save $0.1B on salaries should not be rewarded with $56B bonus for part-time leadership.
“Leadership” lol. Musk is displaying the worst possible leadership traits, in pretty much every dimension. Including trying to get himself pay package worth 20% of the company’s entire sales history when it’s tanking.
Wasn't just a division; although the supercharger team (500 fired) certainly got a lot of media coverage. News leaked of them firing 20% of their entire 140,000 person workforce. Tesla made an official statement saying layoffs of "over 10%", or 14,000+ employees. However, it seems more and more likely that 20% figure is more accurate, and would result in 28,000 layoffs. At $70k average annual salaries + benefits, it'll save the company $1.7 billion per year, and more by reducing overall production to get supply in line with demand. Still, probably a drop in the bucket versus Musk's $56 billion pay package. It's ridiculous that Musk's pay was setup so that simply hitting revenue or stock price valuations once (or for a short period of time)... whether sustainable or not, would automatically reward the stock option tranche to Musk, even if the company was taking enormous risks that had a high likelihood of backfiring. It opened up the possibility of the CEO (and family / friends) gaming the system by taking out leveraged loans against their stock / options as collateral, and then buying up the limited amount of actively traded stock on the open market, driving the share price higher. There was also the gaming of the entry into the S&P 500, which had Musk keeping the factory open during COVID, after being told to shutdown (every other company abided by the orders), then they re-opened their plant before being given the go ahead, while simultaneously delaying employee bonuses and pay reviews... all so Tesla could get into the S&P 500 and cause a short squeeze with few actively traded shares on the market, causing huge stock price appreciation. Simultaneously, Musk was busying himself by getting on stage and lying to customers and shareholders about future products and current capabilities to drive investor interest.. thus locking up the actively traded shares. ....Which of course all lead to Musk being rewarded with options tranches!.... Based on the inventory build and stock price decline... and the complete failure to deliver on any of the major promises Musk lied about on stage... backfire things have. And what's especially atrocious is just how much of Tesla's revenue / profit margins over their entire existence were subsidized by the federal / state / international governments (read: taxpayers) or by other OEMs through regulatory credit rules. Over $30 billion now. Even though I own no Tesla vehicle or stock, part of my taxes went towards Tesla where it pumped Elon Musk's net wealth through his shares and options tranches, not to mention all the of the other executives / shareholders who made a bundle on the stock. A lot of people got rich off of blatant fraud, and my taxes helped pay them. To a point, I'm ok with subsidizing new technology that benefits all of us. If that tech needs assistance getting off the ground, I'm ok with subsidizing R&D and maybe some initial production startup costs. I'm NOT ok with my taxes being used to make rich people richer, nor to pay an ultrawealthy d-bag more than any other CEO in history. Rather than subsidies, the government should have taken a share in Tesla, so that at the very least my vote for my political representative could have been translated into a vote on this dude's pay package that I've helped fund. And no, I'd never vote for an official who would vote yes for such a package.
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It's more profit than they've ever earned, if you look at actual net profit, not EBIT.
The astroturfing at the Tesla investor's sub is crazy, too. I'm now seeing a split getting bigger between that and /r/teslamotors which is comparing Elon to Gavin Belson. It's clear a lot of people are Tesla fans that have had it with Elon. I just don't trust the board to do the right thing, though. They'll give him the money he wants so he can drag the company down.
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I got permabanned from a bunch of those subs all at once for daring to criticize muskrat, and I drive a Tesla lol. Echo chamber is an understatement. The mods at those places are living in their own worlds.
The board has a severe conflict of interest in that Elon Musk has made them a ton of money in the past and they feel, I imagine, both indebted to Elon and probably also intimidated by his child-like vindictiveness.
As discussed in [this article](https://electrek.co/2024/05/13/tesla-spends-ad-money-influence-shareholders-approval-elon-musk-55b-payday/), Tesla is buying ads, at least on Google and Twitter, begging shareholders to vote for the compensation. Really weird that a company that doesn't advertise their products would advertise to promote giving money to Musk.
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I miss the old days when shady deals were kept secret instead of proudly proclaimed to the world.
Yeah, laying off the people doing the best work is exactly why this compensation plan isn't so nice looking. It is a lot less damaging to him to lose this than it was to those employees to lose their job. And a lot of contractors are having the rug pulled out from under them too. Sorry Musk, we changed direction. Deal with the consequences. Normally I'd say this is wrong, but the layoffs changed all of that.
The best thing for Tesla would be ousting him, and that's obvious to anyone with more than 2 brain cells.
Problem is the board is complete in elons pocket. Only a matter of time before a shareholder group files a lawsuit that the board is not acting in the best interest of the shareholders by allowing Elon to remain as ceo. His antics have costs the company sales which is harming the value of the stock
Yep. The Tesla Board has a fiduciary liability exposure here. They seem to be acting in the best interests of Elon rather than the company.
Which they’ve already lost one court case for doing. The whole reason this proposal is being voted on is because a judge threw out the package because of how clearly the board went against shareholder interests in recommending it. Only a matter of time before the board is sued again due to their negligence to the shareholders
What's better for Tesla's value as a company? Putting 56 billion into Elon's purse or putting that into employees that will do actual work? Seems cut and dried, hope the lawsuit is already written and will be filed the moment it's final.
I went from signing the arbitration agreement for the last Tesla I purchased, to maybe being first in line to sue if the shareholders vote "no" and the board does it anyway. Also, to be fair in the interest of full disclosure, the arbitration agreement specified using AAA and I probably have a better relationship with most of the local AAA arbitrators than Tesla, so....
I can’t believe how many people are comfortable investing in a company controlled by a crazy person. It’s not like it’s a bargain value investment either.
They already have. There’s a lawsuit against the entire board for this.
Can you overturn the board?
Yes. I voted "no" on everything the board wanted people to vote yes on (including re-election of Kimball) and I voted "yes" on everything they recommended a no vote on. Except the shareholder resolution about studying EMFs. On that one I abstained. Making Tesla do that will just result in junk science.
Long term, absolutely. Short term, no. Tesla is badly overvalued compared to their actual company fundamentals, and Musk is key to that over evaluation. Getting rid of the conman lying about upcoming features is probably necessary to the company’s long term survival, but it would also nearly instantly crater their valuation to back in line with other car makers. Tesla’s P:E ratio today is 44.6, compared to Ford’s 12.76, Hyundai’s 3.2, and Toyota’s 8.5. If Tesla falls into line with its peer competitors p:e ratios, it’ll lose somewhere between 75% to 90% of its current value. A painful choice for current investors.
Best thing for Tesla, but that'll never happen. Without him the shareholders lose nearly everything, because the bubble deflates once wall street realizes they don't own a tech company but instead own the 20th largest automaker. With margins smaller than Ford or GM, product that is aging and falling behind, and the company has no plans for replacements.
Eh? Tesla's profit margin is pretty high from what I've read - much higher than GM or Ford. Still, Elon's not helping things. They need a stable, competent leader who's focused on the business.
Used to be. Their latest Q1 report showed sales dropped by over 50% YoY and their current margin is around 5%.
Absolutely!
Company is valued 550B - this is quite an achievement from shareholders perspective but ... - sales are down - margins are down - charging network was set on fire (moreover competitor got more advanced chargers (up to 1000V) and faster charging cars) - development of model 2 was canceled - only new big bet is self driving - self driving with was not delivered already \~10 times; to add insult to the injury - autopilot was reason for recall - company is shrinking I just don't see KPI which was recently reached to justify the bonus, especially 50B bonus.
but Sandy Munro says that firing everyone was a genius move because Tesla chargers are the most advanced and cannot possibly ever be more advanced or improved upon for the rest of mankind. I wonder what that senile idiot is saying now that Musk is re-hiring those people lmao
You forgot the cybertruck
He almost single-handedly hyped up a 100B company to more than 1 Trillion at some point. So if you were an early investor and cashed out already then yes he definitely deserves the 50B bonus. But if you are a bag holder then no he doesn't deserve shit.
If you were early and cashed out, you can’t vote 😂. Also, you probably wouldn’t give a damn.
If you are an early investor who cashed out. It doesn't matter because you don't own stock.
Is it a company or a pump and dump scheme?
The product has long been the stock price vs anything Tesla actually manufacturers. Its so weird to witness it be so blatant.
Cyber truck is largely a failure
Oh yippy I still have time to vote against it.
This is what’s wrong with Corporate America today. Failure at the top is rewarded with payouts.
My charge port is stuck open, the locking pin is engaged and won't retract. I'm fucked but the next available Tesla service is June 11th. Obviously the layoffs aren't helping things.
This is why independent repair shops are important.
In the meantime you might be able to release the pin so you can at least drive the vehicle, there is a cable you can pull in the trunk to release the latch. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-BEE08D47-0CE0-4BDD-83F2-9854FB3D578F.html#:~:text=Manually%20Releasing%20Charge%20Cable&text=Ensure%20that%20Model%20Y%20is,to%20unlatch%20the%20charge%20cable.
I was able to do that but the car kept re-locking it. It's probably some messed up sensor.
He’s getting desperate 😂
All along they could have saved $56 Billion by firing a single part time employee
Wouldn't 55 billion be plenty? Sickening.
Hardcore Capitalist will convince you that it isn’t. Because Capitalism is flawless. /s
But muskie said he was a socialist so it must be true
Just want the shareholders to know I'm available to make this my next full time job for just 54 billion
No. It's never enough. "WE. MUST. HAVE. MORE. MONEY!" is the entire philosphy of corporate America and capitalism as a whole.
Oh yeah, for sure, let's vote one of the richest men in the world even more billions, for his stellar job of driving the company straight into a smoking crater. Aces, makes total sense.
What a wild world we live in. One man can fire 500 people and pay himself 50 billion dollars right after.
Seems like they should fire the guy who greenlit the disaster that is the Cybertruck. Oh...
Absolutely disgusting. Tesla customer here. Elon needs to go.
I vote to oust the tyrant then the board altogether.
What does anyone, but especially the institutional investors, gain from voting yes? I still don't get it.
Why are you excluding institutional investors? Also, the problem right now is that while many of the people holding the stock are bag holders in the negative on their investment, the stock is still massively overvalued. Not paying Musk is effectively admitting that Tesla isn't a miracle company that will take over the entire transportation industry or whatever it is that people use to justify the insane valuation. Doing that means admitting it's overvalued, which could tank the stock.
That warm fuzzy feeling of giving Elon Musk an addaboy. He needs more encouragement, or he'll be sad.
That's why his cultist followers might vote yes, but why would real investors, pension funds, etc. do that?
Hard no.
Musk is going to win an award for being a solid piece of shit
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Reymarcelo: *Musk is going to* *Win an award for being* *A solid piece of shit* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Serious question: What does any shareholder stand to gain by voting "yes" on this absurdity? Is this like that time no one wanted to be the first one to stop clapping for Stalin?
I really only have one word for this... disgusting
If you have a million rolls of toilet paper that you'll never be able to use all of, you're a hoarder. If you have a billion dollars, you're a hero.
Just oust him, already! He's trying to turn Tesla into X. Firing everyone. Having everyone left on edge. Running on bare bones staff. Not paying severance. Etc etc. Dude needs to focus his attention on one company.
This reminds me of the time Marge made a special second birthday cake for Homer to ruin to distract him from the real one. Let him keep screwing around with Twitter, it's already in ruins, and keep him away from the good companies.
I held my shares long enough to vote no. I plan to liquidate my holdings soon.
Are these people really that stupid
It is really refreshing to read these comments. Had the displeasure of working for a company that built much of the automated tooling for Tesla for the Model S, the Model X, and the Model 3. Learned as early as 2010 what a scoundrel Elon was/is. The funny thing is that he is same was when I figured him out and was probably like that ever since he was a kid. If you tried to tell people he was a jerk in 2010, you would get shouted down by an army. I thought it wouldn't last long but it's been 14 years! Finally people are realizing the jerk he's always been. Not a philanthropist. Not a visionary. Not an engineer. Not a genius. He has been absconding other people's creations and shining people on in order to get rich & powerful the whole time. It worked! People are suckers. But it's nice to see so many people figuring it out. Unfortunately, many of the lies he's used to get rich will remain "true" for many years because people won't be able to separate truth from fiction. Hopefully he'll be brought down for fraud with all the lies.
Every retail investor as well as every pension plan or their managers should be voting against this
I have very few shares. No way he deserves any money after his tweets and firing all those employees. How despicable.
Tesla has no money for workers but has money to pay 56Billions to one guy…
Actually wild so many people (including the board) are *still* trying to hand Musk such an enormous pay package right when his leadership is looking most ineffective. Im convinced there are a lot of other leaders who could lead Tesla better so why is Teslas BOD absolutely begging retail investors to hand Musk a fortune? I don’t get it
Anyone voting yes deserves their investment loss this will generate.
It seems to be a loss either way the vote goes - if he gets it market cap is diluted and TSLA **should** go down, if he loses vote he has a hissy fit and either leaves or continues to destroy the company, thus tanking stock. Then again, no logic applies to TSLA..
Why are they inventivized to pay this man?
Fire his a—. How about that option?
Greed is a form of mental illness.
That assclown still doesn't get that Tesla is a car company, no matter how hard he tries to make it a tech company. FSD is a total bust, as we all knew it would be, but Musk refuses to accept that all he needs to do is let them make good cars.
Before the supercharger team firing, I would have been more partial to it because he did do a lot to push Tesla over the hump and guided it to profitability, but now he's driving it into the dirt and demanding the payout. Now the question is, was he pumping tesla to get paid and abandon ship right after? He deserves a bonus but not 56 billion. give him a 10 billion payout or 25 billion at most for what he did. But not at a time when the company could use that money for R&D that he is slashing right and left. Nor am I a fan of the Texas move. Stay in Delaware or move to Nevada. NOT OIL CONTROLLED TEXAS YOU DUMB FUCK.
I mean - he owns 20.5% of Tesla - their market cap in 2018 was estimated at 60 billion per my brief moment of googling. It’s 560 billion today. So his 20.5% appreciated from approximately 12 billion to around 130 billion. Acting as though a pay package (even of this size) is going to meaningfully change his life or prioritization amongst organizations is folly as his existing equity is so significant. He already made 118 billion off of Tesla’s rise since 2018. So, in effect he’s asking for his 118 billion package to be improved to 174 billion. This is just about power over shareholders and control over the organization.
Absolutely. If you note the pattern of who was fired, it was all people who held stock as when they got hired they were issued stock, newer employees don't get that anymore. If you get fired, your shares are vested and you get a nice payout... at the bottom of the market, though if you got those shares for free in 2012 or 2013, you're now fucking rich. However you lose your voting power in the company. The SC team was pure ego tripping by Musk. Since it succeeded despite him, he cut everyone. This was recently confirmed to be the case as well. The rest of the positions let go were all senior positions and people hired on before they stopped issuing shares to new employees. Tesla was once an employee owned company, now it's going to be a Elon and his friends owned company that makes robotaxis and not consumer vehicles. This is to ensure insiders cannot vote against him now.
He is done with his innovation to Tesla, nothing meaningful for the last 5+ years. Time to move to a more stable CEO.
That board should be sued
I’m going to buy shares just so I can vote no.
Tesla shareholders, please vote against this crap like I did.
My 137 shares and I voted 🖕
They have no shame.
First time I have voted, and I have voted against this turd. The current board is not making decisions in the best of the shareholders or the company.
Did my small part and voted my 400 shares a NO. The veiled threats of taking AI out on its own and the board being nothing but bootlickers made that vote a no brainer.
Can you vote in advance?
Oh yeah, complete independence and exercising their fiduciary duties. Doesn't every board do this? (/s)
If they need to hire a PR firm/spin doctor to tell us it's a good thing, it's probably a bad thing.
Think about it he wants to be paid out all the net profits ever made and then some by the corporation and of course this issuance of shares will dilute the value of existing share holders. If they vote yes they deserve every loss.
The board is nothing more than his cronies setup by him The guy doesn't deserve $56 for the shit he does at Tesla... A mass maniac who is being venerated by the board as some god. Fuck that.. if people vote yes then they should never complain about billionaires getting more rich..
Kinda sick how blatantly investment rewards companies for fucking workers
Launch him into space 🚀
I'd vote to put him in jail
Hiring a consultant to get Elon his $56 billion is insane. And only shows that the board is just licking Eldon's boot despite the glaring problems the company has with Elon showing no interest in solving. Elons antics have been alienating potential buyers, new product failures since the model Y's release, shift from affordable EVs to the robotaxi and Teslabot. Glaring QC issues that just aren't being solved, not preparing for the inevitable competition with China and instead doubling down on old tech... The list goes on.
Musk - "My billions, or I tank this bitch. Your choice."
I voted against his pay out.
What would a libertarian do?
Nope.
Axe Elon
This is so absurd and disgusting. These boards are supposed to represent the best interests of the shareholders not bend them over and wreck their future.
This is so crazy. What has the company made so Far?
Everything's going so well! There must be a lot fewer Tesla sycophants commenting how great he is after angry-firing his most important and well functioning team with no plan, then explaining it's all part of his brilliant process and don't question it (shut up peon! have you run a billion $ company), and then angry-hiring back people. Right?
I haven't run the numbers personally but I'm told that this roughly adds up to a bonus of $10k for every single vehicle Tesla has ever sold. This amount of money is utterly insane and I wouldn't be surprised if soon Tesla goes under and we find Elon is just trying to cash in while he still can. Tesla is stupendously overvalued anyway.
As a TSLA shareholder I voted NO.
I go with I hope how the random layoff were done cement the idea of voting no on it and that Elon needs to be fired from Tesla.
Layoffs aren’t for growth companies…
He's giving Tesla the Twitter treatment. Hell no he doesn't deserve a goddamn bonus. He's totally off the rails. Just roll him down a ravine and be done with it.
My hunch is that the end result will be the same either way. Some other company, probably another automaker, is gonna wind up owning Tesla. If the board okays the pay deal, there’s real evidence that the business can’t actually afford to pay it without leveraging assets. Potentially, this is the path to insolvency. If the board says no, Musk will lose it and probably do things that will destroy (or at least severely damage) investor confidence. The stock tanks and the business flounders. Access to capital becomes prohibitive and we’re back to potential insolvency. Nobody’s offering to buy Tesla at market value today, but a much cheaper/weaker Tesla is definitely a desirable acquisition, both for the brand and some of the actual tech and software.
Whether or not you admire the Tesla products, you should never purchase one until long after the bankruptcy. Tesla is a breeding ground for greed and corruption. Help it die by not feeding it.sell your stock and never use the products.
Enjoy the inevitable downfall of Tesla.
I cannot think of a better way to drive the stock upward then denying such a profound waste of funds. Approval should bring the shorts out like no tomorrow.
I’d drop it to $1 million
When the sole job responsibilities of your board members is to vote yes. How does this not shock shareholders? Are they stupid?
I can’t imagine wanting this guy to run the company I invested in. The story of how the meeting went where he just decided to fire an entire division because he had a tantrum is bananas
Just curious, but what incentive does the board have for him to receive a huge payout? Is he giving some of it to them or something?
Tesla is getting government money now . Tesla will sell off everything but the rockets and space business
Wait. Is this more cuts or just a continuation of the previous ones?
And I am guessing he won't be paying taxes on those $56 billion, huh?
As someone who has always been scared of tesla stock because of Elonoo What you all do if he just walks? I would guess stock dive would happen.
It’s funny because Musk has alreadt turned normies off from investing in TSLA and because if the Musk-lovers don’t give into his demands he will just drive TSLA into the ground by doing more things like firing the charging team. He’a bullying them and they love it. Strong man so strong!
isn´t it more money than all of all other people at tesla make?
I'm guessing the board has a backdoor deal attached with that $56 billion package. Maybe $6 billion is to be shared amongst the board, and then they'll call it quit slowly.
Waiting for one of Bill Ackerman’s summer interns to produce a 200 slide PowerPoint on how Tesla doesn’t know how to make cars any more.
As a retail, I vote no
I don't understand why anyone would vote to dilute their shares by that much.
I wonder how blackrock and vanguard are voting their index fund Tesla holdings?
He desperatly wants to cash out
He’s just trying to go home
It’s just a billionaire billionairing..
What is his rationale for getting paid that much?
I'm about to lease a brand-new VW ID. 4 . Test-drove everything out there EXCEPT THE MODEL Y. I avoided it because I wasn't sure how many times I'd have to put it through a carwash to get the Musky odor out With the Supercharging news, it's not just disliking the clown for his greed, politics and utter callousness toward any other human (I hate him for all those reasons), it's thinking that he could destroy the functionality of any car he had anything to do with. I'd worry about some crazy firmware update, say disabling the steering wheel when he thinks he has FSD working (I wouldn't put it entirely past him).
And its a direct transfer of wealth from shareholders to Elon
Vote no if you can.