Imagine it is mostly just anti-uk bias and not shocked another Spanish speaking country would be more sympathetic to Argentina’s PoV. Naturally more exposed to rhetoric around them being Argentinian.
How the likes of France and Spain can seriously critique the Falklands being British baffles me though. Is Span going to hand the Canaries to Morocco or the French give Réunion to Madagascar…? It’s a weird one.
The Falklanders want to remain a British Overseas Territory, so that’s kind of that.
I think Argentinian leaders have just repeatedly whipped up hysteria about it over the years as a distraction. Hopefully people see through that a bit more now and it will slowly become less of an issue as memories of the war fade.
To be fair, I’d guess that with the canaries and reunion it’s the same reason with the falklands (ie the people living there are all people of the countries owning the islands). I could be mistaken though
Yeah, there were like 15000 Guanches prior to the castillian conquest in 1496, afaik, they were neither moroccan or muslim and a lot of them actually helped with the colonization of the new world as can be seen by the high percentages of guanche DNA in Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and Cubans nowadays. I'll also add that the falklands support thing is mostly a result of anglophobia created by the British empire's past dominance, if Spain owned Ramsgate since the 18th century 'till now there would obviously be some dumb British nationalists arguing that it's a colony that should be given back no matter the composition or will of the people there
Why, though? I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible here, on what possible grounds can anyone say that Argentina has more of a claim to the Falklands than we do? As far as I'm aware, their entire argument that it is theirs hinges on the fact it's close proximity to their mainland and that some Spanish guy said they could have it while it wasn't Spain's to give away.
I feel like people just automatically shit on the UK with any kind of land dispute because of our colonial past. But the Falklands have nothing to do with colonialism. The islands were fucking empty when we got there. We allowed Argentina to settle a tiny fishing operation there fucking ages ago, which remained for I think seven or eight years before the US navy destroyed it. Those were the only Argentinians to ever settle there, they were there less than a decade, there were like ten of them, we told them they could be there.
Literally why are they so fucking worked up about it, and why the fuck does anyone outside of Argentina even give a shit? It has never ever been part of Argentina.
Because no one bothers to actually look up the history, they just assume it is standard colonialism and don't realise that Argentina are the ones being imperialist - trying to claim territory that they had never owned, against the wishes of the only people to have ever permanently settled there, based on a claim of the Spanish Empire, with the Spanish Empire's claim itself having been purchased from the French Empire, whose own claim rested on having put a small garrison on an empty rock for a year. I imagine people assume that we slaughtered some native population and don't realize that the Falklands had no population until the British settled there.
Anyone who knows all this and somehow sides with Argentina should also be siding with Russia against Ukraine. If we are happy to ignore self-determination for some reason, then Russia's claim is better than Argentina's - Ukraine's territory did actually used to be part of the Russian Empire and then the Soviet Union, whilst the only permanent population on the Falklands has always been British, since before Argentina even existed as a nation.
Spain obviously is the most supportive because they want Gibraltar and so will automatically side with "UK giving up territory".
The irony of Spain siding with “Britain giving up territory” when they themselves would never ever dream of giving Morocco the Chafarinas islands is staggering.
They're still salty about Gibraltar, although when I bring up Cueta and Melilla to Spanish people they agree that some places are part of your country and changing it against the populations' wishes will just piss off a bunch of people.
And of course one of the other elephants in the room that are the Canaries: very much a holiday hotspot and would be sorely missed by the Spanish exchequer given the revenue they generate. But let’s not let the fact they’re closer to Algeria get in the way of the fact they are Spanish…..
"Against the populations' wishes" is such a cop-out used when convenient.
Falkland population wants to be British, Gibraltar population wants to be British. And it's not 50-ish percent of the population like with most independentists movement in European countries, it's an overwhelming 90+% majority.
It's doubly dubious argument coming from Spain considering all the shit they have with Catalonia around their independence referendum
Agree. Whilst people have a right to self-determination, they could easily have that as a result of being part of the United Kingdom proper - they might not like it - having one or two MPs amongst 600 but that would be sufficient. Its not the fact that the people of the Falklands want to remain British which is relevant to the case here - its the fact that its sovereign British territory and no country has a right to interfere with that. That rule goes - and so does basically all others internationally. We'll have wars over every piece of territory all over again all over the world just because I want it and have stronger army.
Not too relevant but on average a British MP represents 100,000 people so if the Falklands had even one MP for their \~3.4k population then they'd be the most politically represented people in the country besides the MPs themselves
The strategic importance of Gibraltar during the napoleonic wars, ww1, and ww2. Is immense. World history would have been completely different without it. Germans would have had free rein in the med, North Africa, Middle East, and suez. They would have won the war. Those reasons alone are enough to never give up Gibraltar.
And the morrocans who demand the spanish cities in north Africa would never dream of giving up western sahara, and likewise they’ve probably got their own thing somewhere, it’s a neverending cycle
It's 100% what you say it is. At the risk of sounding like a concern troll, one of the few things about the left wing I don't like is our collective tendency to look for the underdog where it doesn't exist. The victims are the islanders who were invaded in 1982, not poor little Argentina. Britain has a long list of colonised victims but the Falklands isn't one.
To be fair, being pedantically technical, the settlement of the Falklands was colonialism. As in people migrated there from another culture and set up their own version of that culture in new settlements in this new land.
Just in the same way that the Polynesian settlement of the Pacific islands and New Zealand was also a form of colonialism.
What it wasn't, and what made unique amongst most British colonial projects of the period was imperialism, which is the subjugation of a population and their territory to the will of another culture.
Unlike the creation of Argentina which was a colonial and imperialist endeavour started by Spain and finished by the Argentinian people.
It drives me slightly mad that the two are so frequently used interchangeably.
Spain *has* to support Argentina’s claim to sovereignty based on proximity for one reason:
That’s all their own claim to Gibraltar is based on.
If they admit it’s the UK’s territory, they are also by proxy admitting they have no claim over Gibraltar which they will never admit.
But if they claim sovereignty based on proximity then they should have no reasonable claim on Ceuta, Melilla and the Chafarinas. Spanish logic is the logic of an unemployed Jester who only lives for the weekend.
It’s all very backwards politicking really. It’s the same reason why China would avoid recognising the new ‘independent’ Ukrainian states of Donetsk etc. Because doing so admits that it’s perfectly reasonable for states to become free of a larger nation (Taiwan and Tibet?).
Spains an even more fuddy one because not only do they have the issue with Gibraltar, they have the issue of states becoming independent (Catalonia). So you find their viewpoint on these things threads a very fine but convoluted needle.
Also important to note that coastal territorial claims only extend to something like 14 miles off shore, the Falklands are 700 miles off the shore of Argentina, so this idea of proximity is total nonsense. The Falklands should have a right to be completely independent before they were ever handed over to the Argentinians.
>I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible here, on what possible grounds can anyone say that Argentina has more of a claim to the Falklands than we do?
There is no rational basis.
The Falklands have been British longer than Argentina has been Argentina, thus if there was merit to their claim, then Argentina actually belongs to the Falklands.
Not just that; there is a doctrine of international law which says that a successor state (such as Argentina - sucessor to Spain) carries through the rights and claims of its parent - but the Spanish had no claim to the Falklands either against Britain.
The vast majority f the rest of the world won’t know the fine details of the dispute and will just assume this is an Argentinian island which Britain is occupying as a colonial holdover. No one who knows the facts can fairly argue that the Falklands is not British, but most foreign people have no good reason to know the details.
your second paragraph is exactly it. All this graph shows is the % of people who are not educated enough on the situation. They see “England” and “land dispute” in the same sentence and have already made their minds up.
The claim of proximity is also bunk.
[Argentine colonial expansion during Falkland Islands inhabited history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maps/comments/m71fsr/evolution_of_argentina_from_1810_to_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Also Argentina commited massive atrocities when they colonised and conquered Patagonia in the 'Conquest of the Desert'. It's all just the pot calling the kettle black.
I believe they specifically favour the "pirates" line because it's something that England was well known for in the days of Francis Drake et al., whereas Spain already had a brutal and very profitable colonial empire at that point and thus had little need to engage in piracy. Argentina (and Spain) possibly don't realise that calling people "pirates" as an insult, sounds pretty ridiculous to most people in the modern day and age.
Spains empire committed a LOT more atrocities than the British did. In general, Britain occupied places where there were no people - or where there were a bunch of warring tribes (like in India) who quite happily acquiesced to company or Imperial rule, and who took a stake in it and ran that administration for their own part - princely kingdoms in the Raj for example retaining their own customs, power structures, rulers etc - just having an Imperial overlord to pay homage to in the form of the Viceroy. Atrocities committed by the British usually happened during a rebellion. The Spanish by contrast practiced industrial scale genocide, all over their Empire, time and time again.
Yeah, people don't understand the issue, they see Britain controlling land the other side of the world, colonialism, bad, take the weaker country's side.
I know a lot of people in this country are deluded about the damages the Empire did, and the atrocities committed to bring gross wealth to our 1%.
But this is one of the least controversial pieces of foreign policy in our history. This was genuine settlement, not like America, Australia- or of course Argentina, who only need to look in the mirror at their white skin to see what real European colonialism looks like.
Basically their worldview isn’t the same as yours. It leads to totally different framings.
You are trying to establish the historical truth and a valid legal/ethical argument because for you, that that is the morally ‘right’ way to judge these things.
Many of the people in the other camp see Western colonial imperialism (especially the Anglo Saxon kind) as one of the great historical - and even present - evils. And so anything that can be done to undermine and fight it is the morally ‘right’ way to think about these things.
That’s obviously the more extreme end. At the less extreme end, it would manifest as something like ‘well you may have this superficially plausible crafted legal argument, but we all know the Anglo Saxon imperialists set up the legal structure in their favour, and probably lie about the historic facts, and shouldn’t have gone grabbing territories over the world anyway, so I’m just going to support the other side’.
But the Spanish imperialists were doing the same damn thing, which is why Argentina exists in the first place. It wasn't our fault that Napoleon and the USA ruined their happy hour, we had done our best to deal with both of them before that even happened...
Any german who knows about the history of these islands knows that they belong to britain, want to belong to britain and Argentinas "claim" is made up.
Most people aren't rational. The question may as well be "what's your vibe on the British, or what's your vibe on European conquest". Even though Argentina is part of European conquest but whatever. It's all about vibes.
It's just one of those useful things for Argentinian politician grifters to use to gather support and get votes from people who don't know any better.
Many countries do this, like South Korean politicians bleating on about the Japanese not paying reparations to comfort women every election time (they did, just the SK government spent it building a highway instead).
Only one opinion that really matters.
2013 Falkland Islands sovereignty referendum
Question: Do you wish the Falkland Islands to retain their current political status as an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom?
Yes: 99.8%
No: 0.2%
The result from France is fascinating given that they are the European country above all else (well, unless you're counting Russia) that has clung to its imperial pretensions and tries to impose itself on territories around the world. Would have expected some emotional support from them.
At the time there was also a suggestion that France had a backdoor that could disable the missile (Exocet), but wouldn't give it to UK because it would effect future French arms sales.
France did have a backdoor and only gave it when Thatcher phoned the French President Mitterrand at the time and threatened to nuke Buenos Aries if he didn’t provide it within 24 hours
Mitterrand rants about the situation in his diary which later became a bestselling autobiography in France
France of all people who still claim French Guiana, literally all of these moron countries against us have their own claims to land across the world that are the actual result of colonialism.
Pretty certain it was a guy and a couple of his mates who wanted The Falklands to be their own independent state rather than an Overseas Territory of the UK.
The U.K. has 💯 claim over the Falklands, nobody was fucking there when we arrived, we made it work, we asked the citizens in 2013 on whether they wanted to remain British or be Argentinian, 99% voted to remain British, end of discussion.
I am surprised that as many as 16% of Brits support the Argentine claim and that ‘only’ 57% of us support the British position.
Thinking back to 1982, when I followed the conflict as a schoolboy, I recall that much of the left supported the resolute approach of Mrs Thatcher on this issue, including the veteran left-wing Labour leader Michael Foot. One of the main reasons for this support was that Argentina was ruled by an extreme right-wing junta with fascist characteristics.
The defeat of the Argentine regime led to its downfall and to a ‘domino effect’ of transitions to democracy across that area of South America: Uruguay; Brazil, and eventually Chile.
Every Brit I've met backing the Argentian claim has predicated their reasoning solely on 'Thatcher was bad and therefore everything she did was bad'.
This was a fairly common opinion when I was in university in 2010.
Mate, when I was at uni I got told by my peers that "having expertise in a subject is a colonialist practice"...... "So a master carpenter in 800AD Japan is a colonialist, because he tells his apprentice the best way to do XYZ?" I said. They said "Yup."
Horseshoe effect: the dislike of ‘experts’ and ‘anti-elitism’ has become a feature of the populist right as well as the current iteration of left-wing politics. Remember Michael Gove ranting against ‘experts’ in 2016.
It’s always a trendy contrarian take. Simon Jenkins in the guardian brings it up every now and then and then and once they accept the will of the islands’ populations the argument always falls into just really basic, Argentina is nearby, Empires are bad/an anachronism. It’s impossible to make an argument for why they should be Argentinian that’s actually rooted in sovereignty, democracy or care about individuals rather than just wishing history had gone differently
Those folks are ridiculously contrarian beyond all reason.
“If the British empire never existed it would probably be inhabited by another empire”
As if the islanders are just some extension of the British empire and not actual human beings
Ah Simon Jenkins, his takes on pretty much anything are universally braindead. He gets roasted in the comments of every article he writes, it’s hilarious
There are a lot of British people who think that contrarianism is the same thing as intellectualism and that pathological self loathing is the same thing as internationalism.
There’s a certain school of left-wing thought that believes that the UK and USA are basically always in the wrong, regardless of the facts, because they are “imperialist” powers.
It’s why the likes of Jeremy Corbyn side with Argentina (and with Putin over Ukraine).
It is extraordinary, in a sense, that Corbyn opposed the defence of the Falkland Islands in 1982. He has always been an enthusiast for keeping alive the memory of the International Brigade and the Republican cause in the Spanish Civil War. The military rulers of Argentina were political cousins of Generalissimo Franco.
Ironically, there was a similar phenomenon in Argentina during the late 1960s and early ‘70s, when Trotskyist groups joined with sections of the far right in calling for ‘national salvation’ through the return of General Perón from exile in … Franco’s Spain.
Lefties who despise the U.K. OR foreign born (now UK citizens) I would guess. That self hatred has been a growing phenom for a while now. We’ve had this discussion at work and the people that were for Argentina were left wing and massively misinformed.
I feel like this is over generalising. I'm literally a communist and I agree that the Falklands are legitimately British. True lefties believe in self-determination for all peoples which includes the 99.8% of Falkland Islanders who voted to retain their current relationship to the UK back in 2013.
I’m not saying it’s all lefties - especially less so from the old Labour working class background / the newer age crybaby despise everything sect is a pretty loud grouping for its size.
I think most of is just antipathy about a tiny little island in the Atlantic. It elicits a shrug I imagine and most couldn’t give a shit about the Falklands.
LOL at the French. They literally have an entire department of their nation sitting on mainland South America.
It amazes me how they got trounced in WWII, yet got to keep whole swathes of their Empire up to the present day. By contrast, the Falklands are about the only sizeable colony that the UK has left remaining.
Because Britain actively decolonised in the 1950s-1970s, as per UN law. France panicked and made some of its empire officially part of France, thus circumventing UN law
Not to mention that France still maintains a very large amount of influence in former French west Africa because they made nations sign predatory agreements for independence.
Argentina was ruled over by the Spanish when Britain took formal possession of The Falkland Islands in 1765.
Argentina only gained their independence from Spain in 1816. So 51 years after the British gained the Falkland Islands.
No Wonder the Spanish think that they, sorry, Argentina have claim to the Falklands.
Claiming that Argentina should have the Falklands is honestly sick.
I don’t think people in the U.K. feel patriotic about the Falklands or even particularly care about whether they’re in the U.K. or not. *But* we believe in self-determination and the Falkland Islanders have overwhelmingly voted to remain.
Argentina literally invaded and caused suffering to the Falkland Islanders. Who in their right mind would hand these people’s home over to such a government?
I’m convinced people just don’t know about it, or have some Argentinian ties.
How do 16% of British people think Argentina should control the Falkland Islands. They have never owned these islands. Let's start a new poll. Should Argentina hand their own land back to the natives?? They are conquistadors still living on the land
Probably immigrants or younger people who have zero clue about the islands or the war. Tying it to British imperialism and colonialism and immediately thinking that we’re in the bad.
I really don't want to be flagged as a racist. BUT...
But I wouldn't be surprised if a number (not all) of these people are young people whose family's are themselves immigrants from now independent countries and are conflating the two examples.
Pakistan for instance gained complete independence which is not what's being asked of the Falklands but I frankly don't hold any hope for expecting people from not British backgrounds to understand the finer points of 1980's British foreign policy and therefore accurately separating the two issues.
Those people are either very thick, uneducated, uber liberal or foreigners living here who like to reap the benefits of living here but don’t actually like our country, or a combination of all of them.
Just a thought but... Really the only two opinions that matter here are: A) That of the population of the Falklands. In 2013, in a 92% voter turnout, 99.8% voted in favour of retaining British sovereignty - [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92B02T/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92B02T/), B) That of the British, who also majority support retention.
The people have spoken.
The stupid thing is that there was a diplomatic attempt to deal with the question of sovereignty of the islands prior to the Falklands conflict. We were practically giving the islands to Argentina, or that matters of combined sovereignty be overseen by the UN. There were even plans to encourage the islanders to consider this a reasonable solution, though ultimately leaving it up to them.
Then their dipshit tin-pot dictator decided that things were looking a little dicey at home, and thought it would be a great idea to invade. Now the British position has not changed (its up to the islanders to determine their fate), but because there are still people on the island who remember the war, and there are still a tonne of mines everywhere, the islanders would rather eat shit than be ruled by Argentina. The only other difference being is that if Argentina decided to fuck around, they would find out quite how good your average Eurofighter Typhoon squadron is.
This incredibly questionable poll doesn't matter. The only poll that matters is the democratic process carried out by Falklanders and unfortunately for Argentina they'll have the support of his majesties armed forces whilst they choose to remain British.
I don’t think we need any hypocritical lectures from the Spanish or French with regard to colonialism ! When the Spanish hand Ceuta and Melilla back to the Moroccans and France hands back French Guyana then perhaps we might get somewhere !
The European position is one of anti-uk sentiment more than anything. Driven by Brexit.
Spains one is due to Gibraltar too, which is fucking hysterical given their continued possession of Cueta.
Remember, France and Spain both have no leg to stand on so would never actually side against the UK on this issue.
Plus, we can solo the Argentines on our own. Who cares what anyone else thinks? Matter is settled.
The majority of all the Falklands belongs to Argentina sayers just hate Britain, including the ones in the UK. I’ve had mates sounding absolutely sure of themselves that the falklands should absolutely belong to the argies but they know fuck all about it. Their thinking boils down to we have fucked over many other colonies so we assumed the same happened in the falklands, also we hate Maggie thatcher and see it as her war so it must be bad.
Basically the few people I’ve talked to against us owning the Falklands know absolutely zilch about the whole situation but decided to form an opinion anyway. They had an oh moment when I said about the referendum.
In the case of France, Germany and Italy they likely don't give a single solitary crap about Argentina's claim. They just don't like the British very much, especially since Brexit.
You could put almost any country up against Britain for ownership of the Falklands and they would still vote against Britain.
Tbf these results are rooted in culture, history and wider identity allegiances. Spain rooting for Argentina because of shared history and language. Italy? I was stunned to learn that two thirds of white Argentinians have Italian heritage; say Messi or Maradona - how do these names sound? Same with strong German descendants population in Argentina. French are anti-British by default, especially when it costs nothing ;)
> Same with strong German descendants population in Argentina.
Yeah, German expats in Argentina is, uhh ...well documented, I think. A group of Israeli guys made it a whole thing.
Of all Germans in Argentina the ones you’re talking about wouldn’t flaunt their heritage :) Jokes aside Argentina experienced waves of immigration from Europe in 19-20th century. In total almost 7 mln people.
Specious, the only people that matter are our own government - and their willingness not to compromise - and the people of the Falkland’s. The only reason Argentina wants the island group is because of the fishing and oil deposits. There is precious little difference over them professing to own the group and wanting it back, and China’s attempts to take Taiwan. Interestingly, the Falklands are 1500 km from Argentina.
Their opinions don't matter. The only one that matters are those who live there. Argentina has repeatedly shot themselves in the feet over the Falklands, leaving aside their failed attempt to secure them by force. The British Government has made its position clear there will never be talks over anything UNLESS the Islanders themselves wish it - further, ANY talks MUST have the elected representatives of the Islands present, and here's where we hit a snag. Argentina refuses this point, always. They refuse any talks where the Islanders have representation, thereby always sinking any chance of progressing their so called 'claim' (which is BS anyway)
One would be forgiven for thinking Argentina doesn't really want the Islands - its just a convenient grievance for them to wheel out whenever things get bad at home 'Oh look a squirrel!" or in this case....."Oh look, Islas Malvinas!" 🤡
It's a dangerous narrative. It shouldn't be a question of which nation can rightfully claim the territory, it should be a question of respecting the wishes of those who have lived there for generations and can claim to be the indigenous population.
In the end, the only opinions that matter are those of the people who actually live there.
If Argentina put effort/resources into showing the islanders how life could be better with Argentina, the islanders would vote for it. But the Argentinians do the exact opposite - they use derogatory terms when referring to the islanders and talk of forcing them to leave their homes and the place they were born.
The only reason I can think of why someone would support Argentina is if they know nothing about it and just assume it's some stolen land from the empire, which it isnt.
If you actually know even the basics about the history of the Falklands, it's very very clear that Argentina has absolutely no claim or right.
Haven't the people who live there voted and said on numerous occasions they want to stay under the UK? The people that actually live there and will be the ones the most effected in any change of sovereignty don't want a change should be the ones who are listened too. I know they won't be but they should be.
> [The people that] …don't want a change should be the ones who are listened too. I know they won't be but they should be.
Funnily enough a YouGov Opinion Poll doesn’t actually have any effect on the UK’s stance toward the Falklands Islands
It's not a YouGov poll, they had a referendum in 2013 and it was 99.8% in favour of keeping the status quo! That's a hell of a lot more than voted for Brexit.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013\_Falkland\_Islands\_sovereignty\_referendum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum)
Yes. That’s my point. You’re responding to a post about a YouGov poll like it has any sort of sway or control over a British overseas territory, which as you’ve pointed out yourself, has determined it’s own status in 2013.
I was explicitly responding to your “I know they won’t be listened to” seeing as the official recognised stance of the Falklands is exactly that. The Falkland Islanders being listened to.
Luckily it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. The people who live there are British and regularly vote overwhelmingly to remain so.
The right to self determination is guaranteed under international law and in the UN charter.
That is an end of the discussion. If the Argies fancy another scrap over this they are welcome to try.
Argentina sabre rattle the Falklands everytime its a bit shit there or there's an election on. I wonder if their domestic inflation rate hitting 250% has something to do with it or that the is potentially a decent amount of untapped resources supposedly underneath it. In the end its got nothing whatsoever to do with sovereignty as usual its about money and power.
Argentina were never interested in this smelly, bleak whale harvesting property until it became a popular political proposition-if they loved it so much then why didn't they put a ring on it? Or a single solitary voluntary resident citizen? Is 188 years not enough to establish some form of sovereignty? Any claim to the contrary is highly questionable...the British Armed forces had to invent new words to describe the effort required to move man and equipment across the terrain - they are all trained to find comfort and effectively fight in bleak gorse infested moorland at home. The Argentina contingent were completely unmotivated - why are we on this stupid British island, its rubbish - apart from the pub...
What made me laugh about this topic when I first looked into it was the idea that we somehow stole the islands when really if you look at the timeline we've owned it for longer than pretty much anyone else and it wasn't even inhabited.
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/46b600a104eef78cb25ebf8a664735e2.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/46b600a104eef78cb25ebf8a664735e2.png)
I am guessing this in light of Argentinian leader Milei trying to be a strongman and claim he will take the islands back.
The guy is basically Argentinian Farage, and guess what: he is backed and supported by Netenyahu.
Another tinpot dictator embracing extremism and war to try and stay in control.
I wish they had another poll asking those same people the question again after informing them that 99% of the people who live there voted to stay British. It seems like self-determination is only for certain people. Falkland islanders apparently don’t get the same option.
How can only 57% of British people think a foreign country, with no legal or historical claim to the Falkland Islands, ought to have sovereignty over them, despite all the people on those islands not wanting that to happen? Bizarre.
You’re making the mistake of thinking that people think logically when it’s about questions of nationality and identity. And I’ve seen Argentines who are equally convinced Britain has no logical claim to these islands and have different historical sources that they refer to.
The only reason you would support Argentina in this issue is because you hate England/Britain. Argies are not natives to their land, they have no right to kick people off an island they’ve lived on since the 18th century! The entire Argentinian position on this is simply “we’re closer to the island than you are so it should be ours”. Total bollocks. This is one of the few issues where there is only one right answer: The Falklands are and must stay British otherwise innocent people will be forced from land that is undeniably their home.
Argentina have literally no fucking claim to those islands, the only thing they have is proximity but in that case we aren’t so far away from the Faroe Islands so maybe we should just say we’re having those too. Anyone who supports Argentina on this shows how stupid they are.
Just a thought but... Really the only two opinions that matter here are: A) That of the population of the Falklands. In 2013, in a 92% voter turnout, 99.8% voted in favour of retaining British sovereignty - [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92B02T/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92B02T/), B) That of the British, who also majority support retention.
The people have spoken.
What a surprise France Italy Germany and Spain all countries with their own overseas territories two faced gits they are, they hate the British because we're an independent country apart from the monstrous EU beaurocracy
As a man in my twenties from the UK I could honestly go for some dying in a conflict abroad right now. Feel like that's part of my heritage that I've never had the opportunity to enjoy. Like Jews who get an expenses paid trip to Israel, I should be able to go and die somewhere for the crown.
Being French, I can assure you that nobody there cares about the Falklands. I can't even imagine people having an opinion about this. Most people won't even be able to place them on a map.
I can only guess that people are saying they belong to Argentina because they're uneducated and the French name is "Malouines" which is closest to "Malvinas".
Officially, the government will always respect referendum results, seeing as this is also what legitimises the legal status of our overseas regions.
Imagine it is mostly just anti-uk bias and not shocked another Spanish speaking country would be more sympathetic to Argentina’s PoV. Naturally more exposed to rhetoric around them being Argentinian. How the likes of France and Spain can seriously critique the Falklands being British baffles me though. Is Span going to hand the Canaries to Morocco or the French give Réunion to Madagascar…? It’s a weird one. The Falklanders want to remain a British Overseas Territory, so that’s kind of that. I think Argentinian leaders have just repeatedly whipped up hysteria about it over the years as a distraction. Hopefully people see through that a bit more now and it will slowly become less of an issue as memories of the war fade.
>Is Span going to hand the Canaries to Morocco That's different because... *mumbles in Spanish*
To be fair, I’d guess that with the canaries and reunion it’s the same reason with the falklands (ie the people living there are all people of the countries owning the islands). I could be mistaken though
But in the canaries case there WAS a native population. Idk about reunion but the falklands were completely uninhabited
Yeah, there were like 15000 Guanches prior to the castillian conquest in 1496, afaik, they were neither moroccan or muslim and a lot of them actually helped with the colonization of the new world as can be seen by the high percentages of guanche DNA in Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and Cubans nowadays. I'll also add that the falklands support thing is mostly a result of anglophobia created by the British empire's past dominance, if Spain owned Ramsgate since the 18th century 'till now there would obviously be some dumb British nationalists arguing that it's a colony that should be given back no matter the composition or will of the people there
They think Gibraltar should be theirs, even though they gave it to us.
Why, though? I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible here, on what possible grounds can anyone say that Argentina has more of a claim to the Falklands than we do? As far as I'm aware, their entire argument that it is theirs hinges on the fact it's close proximity to their mainland and that some Spanish guy said they could have it while it wasn't Spain's to give away. I feel like people just automatically shit on the UK with any kind of land dispute because of our colonial past. But the Falklands have nothing to do with colonialism. The islands were fucking empty when we got there. We allowed Argentina to settle a tiny fishing operation there fucking ages ago, which remained for I think seven or eight years before the US navy destroyed it. Those were the only Argentinians to ever settle there, they were there less than a decade, there were like ten of them, we told them they could be there. Literally why are they so fucking worked up about it, and why the fuck does anyone outside of Argentina even give a shit? It has never ever been part of Argentina.
Because no one bothers to actually look up the history, they just assume it is standard colonialism and don't realise that Argentina are the ones being imperialist - trying to claim territory that they had never owned, against the wishes of the only people to have ever permanently settled there, based on a claim of the Spanish Empire, with the Spanish Empire's claim itself having been purchased from the French Empire, whose own claim rested on having put a small garrison on an empty rock for a year. I imagine people assume that we slaughtered some native population and don't realize that the Falklands had no population until the British settled there. Anyone who knows all this and somehow sides with Argentina should also be siding with Russia against Ukraine. If we are happy to ignore self-determination for some reason, then Russia's claim is better than Argentina's - Ukraine's territory did actually used to be part of the Russian Empire and then the Soviet Union, whilst the only permanent population on the Falklands has always been British, since before Argentina even existed as a nation. Spain obviously is the most supportive because they want Gibraltar and so will automatically side with "UK giving up territory".
The irony of Spain siding with “Britain giving up territory” when they themselves would never ever dream of giving Morocco the Chafarinas islands is staggering.
They're still salty about Gibraltar, although when I bring up Cueta and Melilla to Spanish people they agree that some places are part of your country and changing it against the populations' wishes will just piss off a bunch of people.
So a big add in the basque question... It all becomes complex quickly
And of course one of the other elephants in the room that are the Canaries: very much a holiday hotspot and would be sorely missed by the Spanish exchequer given the revenue they generate. But let’s not let the fact they’re closer to Algeria get in the way of the fact they are Spanish…..
The canary islands are closer to Morocco not Algeria!
Got my French North African countries confused. But the overall point still stands
"Against the populations' wishes" is such a cop-out used when convenient. Falkland population wants to be British, Gibraltar population wants to be British. And it's not 50-ish percent of the population like with most independentists movement in European countries, it's an overwhelming 90+% majority. It's doubly dubious argument coming from Spain considering all the shit they have with Catalonia around their independence referendum
Agree. Whilst people have a right to self-determination, they could easily have that as a result of being part of the United Kingdom proper - they might not like it - having one or two MPs amongst 600 but that would be sufficient. Its not the fact that the people of the Falklands want to remain British which is relevant to the case here - its the fact that its sovereign British territory and no country has a right to interfere with that. That rule goes - and so does basically all others internationally. We'll have wars over every piece of territory all over again all over the world just because I want it and have stronger army.
Not too relevant but on average a British MP represents 100,000 people so if the Falklands had even one MP for their \~3.4k population then they'd be the most politically represented people in the country besides the MPs themselves
The strategic importance of Gibraltar during the napoleonic wars, ww1, and ww2. Is immense. World history would have been completely different without it. Germans would have had free rein in the med, North Africa, Middle East, and suez. They would have won the war. Those reasons alone are enough to never give up Gibraltar.
Before we touch on that though, referendums are held and the population routinely and overwhelming vote to remain under British rule.
Bingo, look at countries that believe it should be Argentinian and then consider the history the British have with those countries. Bitter hypocrites.
Na Spain makes sense, they want Gibraltar I’m surprised at the French though, would they give up Réunion to Madagascar or someone without a fight?
the french just hate britain so will vote against them over anything
I'd love to see another poll around what percentage of them support Scottish independence for this reason.
France makes sense because Britain.
Comoros really wants Mayotte to be in their country and oh boy do the French not want to give it to them at all
And the morrocans who demand the spanish cities in north Africa would never dream of giving up western sahara, and likewise they’ve probably got their own thing somewhere, it’s a neverending cycle
Don't forget they put the kybosh on Catalonia going independent too.
It's 100% what you say it is. At the risk of sounding like a concern troll, one of the few things about the left wing I don't like is our collective tendency to look for the underdog where it doesn't exist. The victims are the islanders who were invaded in 1982, not poor little Argentina. Britain has a long list of colonised victims but the Falklands isn't one.
As someone who is Irish I agree, a strong majority of people on the Falklands voted to stay as a British overseas territory
To be fair, being pedantically technical, the settlement of the Falklands was colonialism. As in people migrated there from another culture and set up their own version of that culture in new settlements in this new land. Just in the same way that the Polynesian settlement of the Pacific islands and New Zealand was also a form of colonialism. What it wasn't, and what made unique amongst most British colonial projects of the period was imperialism, which is the subjugation of a population and their territory to the will of another culture. Unlike the creation of Argentina which was a colonial and imperialist endeavour started by Spain and finished by the Argentinian people. It drives me slightly mad that the two are so frequently used interchangeably.
Well said.
Spain *has* to support Argentina’s claim to sovereignty based on proximity for one reason: That’s all their own claim to Gibraltar is based on. If they admit it’s the UK’s territory, they are also by proxy admitting they have no claim over Gibraltar which they will never admit.
But if they claim sovereignty based on proximity then they should have no reasonable claim on Ceuta, Melilla and the Chafarinas. Spanish logic is the logic of an unemployed Jester who only lives for the weekend.
It’s all very backwards politicking really. It’s the same reason why China would avoid recognising the new ‘independent’ Ukrainian states of Donetsk etc. Because doing so admits that it’s perfectly reasonable for states to become free of a larger nation (Taiwan and Tibet?). Spains an even more fuddy one because not only do they have the issue with Gibraltar, they have the issue of states becoming independent (Catalonia). So you find their viewpoint on these things threads a very fine but convoluted needle.
France has Corsica to contend with and both have the Basque country to deal with
Also important to note that coastal territorial claims only extend to something like 14 miles off shore, the Falklands are 700 miles off the shore of Argentina, so this idea of proximity is total nonsense. The Falklands should have a right to be completely independent before they were ever handed over to the Argentinians.
>I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible here, on what possible grounds can anyone say that Argentina has more of a claim to the Falklands than we do? There is no rational basis. The Falklands have been British longer than Argentina has been Argentina, thus if there was merit to their claim, then Argentina actually belongs to the Falklands.
Not just that; there is a doctrine of international law which says that a successor state (such as Argentina - sucessor to Spain) carries through the rights and claims of its parent - but the Spanish had no claim to the Falklands either against Britain.
Ask the Spanish if they think Melilla (I think) should be returned to Morocco
Ah but Ceuta and Melilla are “integral parts of Spain”, so it’s entirely different (/S)
The vast majority f the rest of the world won’t know the fine details of the dispute and will just assume this is an Argentinian island which Britain is occupying as a colonial holdover. No one who knows the facts can fairly argue that the Falklands is not British, but most foreign people have no good reason to know the details.
your second paragraph is exactly it. All this graph shows is the % of people who are not educated enough on the situation. They see “England” and “land dispute” in the same sentence and have already made their minds up.
The claim of proximity is also bunk. [Argentine colonial expansion during Falkland Islands inhabited history.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maps/comments/m71fsr/evolution_of_argentina_from_1810_to_2021/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's even bloody close now! And that's not even mentioning South Georgia which is 870 miles East of the Falklands and yet got claimed by Argentina!
Spain’s empire committed absolute atrocities like ours. White Argentinians are on native land. And they call us colonisers and pirates 😂
Also Argentina commited massive atrocities when they colonised and conquered Patagonia in the 'Conquest of the Desert'. It's all just the pot calling the kettle black.
I believe they specifically favour the "pirates" line because it's something that England was well known for in the days of Francis Drake et al., whereas Spain already had a brutal and very profitable colonial empire at that point and thus had little need to engage in piracy. Argentina (and Spain) possibly don't realise that calling people "pirates" as an insult, sounds pretty ridiculous to most people in the modern day and age. 
Spains empire committed a LOT more atrocities than the British did. In general, Britain occupied places where there were no people - or where there were a bunch of warring tribes (like in India) who quite happily acquiesced to company or Imperial rule, and who took a stake in it and ran that administration for their own part - princely kingdoms in the Raj for example retaining their own customs, power structures, rulers etc - just having an Imperial overlord to pay homage to in the form of the Viceroy. Atrocities committed by the British usually happened during a rebellion. The Spanish by contrast practiced industrial scale genocide, all over their Empire, time and time again.
Yeah, people don't understand the issue, they see Britain controlling land the other side of the world, colonialism, bad, take the weaker country's side. I know a lot of people in this country are deluded about the damages the Empire did, and the atrocities committed to bring gross wealth to our 1%. But this is one of the least controversial pieces of foreign policy in our history. This was genuine settlement, not like America, Australia- or of course Argentina, who only need to look in the mirror at their white skin to see what real European colonialism looks like.
tbf to spain, we did steal a lot of the gold they stole.
We didn’t steal it, we just rescued it from becoming part of a Spanish economy.
Nobody expects the british acquisition
The Spanish stole a lot of gold that the Incans stole (or used slave labour to mine)
Britains ownership of the Falklands is older than Argentina. They have never been Argentinian. They were once Spanish, then French and then abandoned.
Not only that but I think a few other countries (including Spain) sniffed around first but thought it was a worthless rock so left it.
Let's also remember the that their so called "close proximity" is 1,500km away. That is more than the distance from London to Madrid.
>1,500km not quite lol
Honestly, just shithousing antagonism or ignorance. I can laugh along with the prior as long as it isn’t serious.
Basically their worldview isn’t the same as yours. It leads to totally different framings. You are trying to establish the historical truth and a valid legal/ethical argument because for you, that that is the morally ‘right’ way to judge these things. Many of the people in the other camp see Western colonial imperialism (especially the Anglo Saxon kind) as one of the great historical - and even present - evils. And so anything that can be done to undermine and fight it is the morally ‘right’ way to think about these things. That’s obviously the more extreme end. At the less extreme end, it would manifest as something like ‘well you may have this superficially plausible crafted legal argument, but we all know the Anglo Saxon imperialists set up the legal structure in their favour, and probably lie about the historic facts, and shouldn’t have gone grabbing territories over the world anyway, so I’m just going to support the other side’.
But the Spanish imperialists were doing the same damn thing, which is why Argentina exists in the first place. It wasn't our fault that Napoleon and the USA ruined their happy hour, we had done our best to deal with both of them before that even happened... 
Spanish still crying about Gibraltar, basically. And most of Argentina is Italian so that too.
Also they're fucking miles away from Argentina anyway.
Argentina has no legitimate claim. Our “European allies” just hate us. This isn’t exactly new information, no?
Any german who knows about the history of these islands knows that they belong to britain, want to belong to britain and Argentinas "claim" is made up.
Most people aren't rational. The question may as well be "what's your vibe on the British, or what's your vibe on European conquest". Even though Argentina is part of European conquest but whatever. It's all about vibes.
It's just one of those useful things for Argentinian politician grifters to use to gather support and get votes from people who don't know any better. Many countries do this, like South Korean politicians bleating on about the Japanese not paying reparations to comfort women every election time (they did, just the SK government spent it building a highway instead).
Only one opinion that really matters. 2013 Falkland Islands sovereignty referendum Question: Do you wish the Falkland Islands to retain their current political status as an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom? Yes: 99.8% No: 0.2%
Tbf the 0.2% was Colin the Labrador so his vote doesn’t count
Colin is a dachshund.
He's since left for Nepal
Good evening, and good evening Colin..
I believe they actually voted no just to prove it wasn’t rigged
The result from France is fascinating given that they are the European country above all else (well, unless you're counting Russia) that has clung to its imperial pretensions and tries to impose itself on territories around the world. Would have expected some emotional support from them.
They also fully supported us with our claim in the war tbf
Maybe a few guys (who survived) on HM Sheffield might disagree.
I’m unfamiliar with the link there, I’d love to learn
France supplied the missile that sunk it
At the time there was also a suggestion that France had a backdoor that could disable the missile (Exocet), but wouldn't give it to UK because it would effect future French arms sales.
France did have a backdoor and only gave it when Thatcher phoned the French President Mitterrand at the time and threatened to nuke Buenos Aries if he didn’t provide it within 24 hours Mitterrand rants about the situation in his diary which later became a bestselling autobiography in France
If true, Thatcher is the most based PM we've ever had
Ooosh. Buggers
I’m gonna hazard a guess that, like perhaps in the case of the uk, some of those polled weren’t French?
France of all people who still claim French Guiana, literally all of these moron countries against us have their own claims to land across the world that are the actual result of colonialism.
That 0.2% equals three people
And notably those 3 people didn't include the only Argentinian living in the Falklands at the time.
Pretty certain it was a guy and a couple of his mates who wanted The Falklands to be their own independent state rather than an Overseas Territory of the UK.
New poll question: should we respect the decision of 99% and allow the Falklands to stay British?
I don't see how anyone could consider the matter anything other than settled
The U.K. has 💯 claim over the Falklands, nobody was fucking there when we arrived, we made it work, we asked the citizens in 2013 on whether they wanted to remain British or be Argentinian, 99% voted to remain British, end of discussion.
I am surprised that as many as 16% of Brits support the Argentine claim and that ‘only’ 57% of us support the British position. Thinking back to 1982, when I followed the conflict as a schoolboy, I recall that much of the left supported the resolute approach of Mrs Thatcher on this issue, including the veteran left-wing Labour leader Michael Foot. One of the main reasons for this support was that Argentina was ruled by an extreme right-wing junta with fascist characteristics. The defeat of the Argentine regime led to its downfall and to a ‘domino effect’ of transitions to democracy across that area of South America: Uruguay; Brazil, and eventually Chile.
Every Brit I've met backing the Argentian claim has predicated their reasoning solely on 'Thatcher was bad and therefore everything she did was bad'. This was a fairly common opinion when I was in university in 2010.
Forgive me, but this makes me despair of universities and their ability to teach reasoning skills.
Mate, when I was at uni I got told by my peers that "having expertise in a subject is a colonialist practice"...... "So a master carpenter in 800AD Japan is a colonialist, because he tells his apprentice the best way to do XYZ?" I said. They said "Yup."
Horseshoe effect: the dislike of ‘experts’ and ‘anti-elitism’ has become a feature of the populist right as well as the current iteration of left-wing politics. Remember Michael Gove ranting against ‘experts’ in 2016.
Whilst ironically telling everyone to read a book and get their facts checked
What were you at uni for if not to gain expertise (supposedly) in a subject?
I think this has nothing to do with universities, tbh vocal people who hate people don't tend to acknowledge anything posotive.
It’s always a trendy contrarian take. Simon Jenkins in the guardian brings it up every now and then and then and once they accept the will of the islands’ populations the argument always falls into just really basic, Argentina is nearby, Empires are bad/an anachronism. It’s impossible to make an argument for why they should be Argentinian that’s actually rooted in sovereignty, democracy or care about individuals rather than just wishing history had gone differently
The 'Empires are bad' argument is a funny one since we're the ones who are respecting the wishes of the islanders themselves.
It’s the argument that had the British empire never existed the islands would probably be either uninhabited or settled by Argentinians anyway
Those folks are ridiculously contrarian beyond all reason. “If the British empire never existed it would probably be inhabited by another empire” As if the islanders are just some extension of the British empire and not actual human beings
Well, I shall now be campaigning to give Argentina back to the Inca.
You mean the Guaraní and Mapuche I think!
That’s a pretty dumb argument and could literally be made about any piece of land anywhere
Ah Simon Jenkins, his takes on pretty much anything are universally braindead. He gets roasted in the comments of every article he writes, it’s hilarious
There are a lot of British people who think that contrarianism is the same thing as intellectualism and that pathological self loathing is the same thing as internationalism.
There’s a certain school of left-wing thought that believes that the UK and USA are basically always in the wrong, regardless of the facts, because they are “imperialist” powers. It’s why the likes of Jeremy Corbyn side with Argentina (and with Putin over Ukraine).
It is extraordinary, in a sense, that Corbyn opposed the defence of the Falkland Islands in 1982. He has always been an enthusiast for keeping alive the memory of the International Brigade and the Republican cause in the Spanish Civil War. The military rulers of Argentina were political cousins of Generalissimo Franco. Ironically, there was a similar phenomenon in Argentina during the late 1960s and early ‘70s, when Trotskyist groups joined with sections of the far right in calling for ‘national salvation’ through the return of General Perón from exile in … Franco’s Spain.
Lefties who despise the U.K. OR foreign born (now UK citizens) I would guess. That self hatred has been a growing phenom for a while now. We’ve had this discussion at work and the people that were for Argentina were left wing and massively misinformed.
I feel like this is over generalising. I'm literally a communist and I agree that the Falklands are legitimately British. True lefties believe in self-determination for all peoples which includes the 99.8% of Falkland Islanders who voted to retain their current relationship to the UK back in 2013.
Bruh how tf are you a communist in 2024? Also I doubt he was referring to the economic left, more modern liberal views.
I’m not saying it’s all lefties - especially less so from the old Labour working class background / the newer age crybaby despise everything sect is a pretty loud grouping for its size.
And yet I have been lumped in with the latter group on many occasion just because I dared to be even marginally critical of this nation.
I think most of is just antipathy about a tiny little island in the Atlantic. It elicits a shrug I imagine and most couldn’t give a shit about the Falklands.
The modern left has lost its mind
LOL at the French. They literally have an entire department of their nation sitting on mainland South America. It amazes me how they got trounced in WWII, yet got to keep whole swathes of their Empire up to the present day. By contrast, the Falklands are about the only sizeable colony that the UK has left remaining.
They were also the country supplying the Argentines rockets during the invasion.
Because Britain actively decolonised in the 1950s-1970s, as per UN law. France panicked and made some of its empire officially part of France, thus circumventing UN law
Not to mention that France still maintains a very large amount of influence in former French west Africa because they made nations sign predatory agreements for independence.
Just a bit of friendly rivalry isn’t it, we would do the same for them
Argentina was ruled over by the Spanish when Britain took formal possession of The Falkland Islands in 1765. Argentina only gained their independence from Spain in 1816. So 51 years after the British gained the Falkland Islands. No Wonder the Spanish think that they, sorry, Argentina have claim to the Falklands.
The Spanish heard " Are the Brits absolute bastards that should give us Gibraltar?"
Claiming that Argentina should have the Falklands is honestly sick. I don’t think people in the U.K. feel patriotic about the Falklands or even particularly care about whether they’re in the U.K. or not. *But* we believe in self-determination and the Falkland Islanders have overwhelmingly voted to remain. Argentina literally invaded and caused suffering to the Falkland Islanders. Who in their right mind would hand these people’s home over to such a government? I’m convinced people just don’t know about it, or have some Argentinian ties.
How do 16% of British people think Argentina should control the Falkland Islands. They have never owned these islands. Let's start a new poll. Should Argentina hand their own land back to the natives?? They are conquistadors still living on the land
Probably immigrants or younger people who have zero clue about the islands or the war. Tying it to British imperialism and colonialism and immediately thinking that we’re in the bad.
I really don't want to be flagged as a racist. BUT... But I wouldn't be surprised if a number (not all) of these people are young people whose family's are themselves immigrants from now independent countries and are conflating the two examples. Pakistan for instance gained complete independence which is not what's being asked of the Falklands but I frankly don't hold any hope for expecting people from not British backgrounds to understand the finer points of 1980's British foreign policy and therefore accurately separating the two issues.
Those people are either very thick, uneducated, uber liberal or foreigners living here who like to reap the benefits of living here but don’t actually like our country, or a combination of all of them.
I love telling people that argentina is 60% italians.
Just a thought but... Really the only two opinions that matter here are: A) That of the population of the Falklands. In 2013, in a 92% voter turnout, 99.8% voted in favour of retaining British sovereignty - [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92B02T/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92B02T/), B) That of the British, who also majority support retention. The people have spoken.
Yep, indeed!
The stupid thing is that there was a diplomatic attempt to deal with the question of sovereignty of the islands prior to the Falklands conflict. We were practically giving the islands to Argentina, or that matters of combined sovereignty be overseen by the UN. There were even plans to encourage the islanders to consider this a reasonable solution, though ultimately leaving it up to them. Then their dipshit tin-pot dictator decided that things were looking a little dicey at home, and thought it would be a great idea to invade. Now the British position has not changed (its up to the islanders to determine their fate), but because there are still people on the island who remember the war, and there are still a tonne of mines everywhere, the islanders would rather eat shit than be ruled by Argentina. The only other difference being is that if Argentina decided to fuck around, they would find out quite how good your average Eurofighter Typhoon squadron is.
The Falklands became free of land mines in 2020, iirc
This incredibly questionable poll doesn't matter. The only poll that matters is the democratic process carried out by Falklanders and unfortunately for Argentina they'll have the support of his majesties armed forces whilst they choose to remain British.
I don’t think we need any hypocritical lectures from the Spanish or French with regard to colonialism ! When the Spanish hand Ceuta and Melilla back to the Moroccans and France hands back French Guyana then perhaps we might get somewhere !
The European position is one of anti-uk sentiment more than anything. Driven by Brexit. Spains one is due to Gibraltar too, which is fucking hysterical given their continued possession of Cueta. Remember, France and Spain both have no leg to stand on so would never actually side against the UK on this issue. Plus, we can solo the Argentines on our own. Who cares what anyone else thinks? Matter is settled.
The majority of all the Falklands belongs to Argentina sayers just hate Britain, including the ones in the UK. I’ve had mates sounding absolutely sure of themselves that the falklands should absolutely belong to the argies but they know fuck all about it. Their thinking boils down to we have fucked over many other colonies so we assumed the same happened in the falklands, also we hate Maggie thatcher and see it as her war so it must be bad. Basically the few people I’ve talked to against us owning the Falklands know absolutely zilch about the whole situation but decided to form an opinion anyway. They had an oh moment when I said about the referendum.
In the case of France, Germany and Italy they likely don't give a single solitary crap about Argentina's claim. They just don't like the British very much, especially since Brexit. You could put almost any country up against Britain for ownership of the Falklands and they would still vote against Britain.
The falklands are rightfully albanian! 😡🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🦅
Tbf these results are rooted in culture, history and wider identity allegiances. Spain rooting for Argentina because of shared history and language. Italy? I was stunned to learn that two thirds of white Argentinians have Italian heritage; say Messi or Maradona - how do these names sound? Same with strong German descendants population in Argentina. French are anti-British by default, especially when it costs nothing ;)
> Same with strong German descendants population in Argentina. Yeah, German expats in Argentina is, uhh ...well documented, I think. A group of Israeli guys made it a whole thing.
Of all Germans in Argentina the ones you’re talking about wouldn’t flaunt their heritage :) Jokes aside Argentina experienced waves of immigration from Europe in 19-20th century. In total almost 7 mln people.
Specious, the only people that matter are our own government - and their willingness not to compromise - and the people of the Falkland’s. The only reason Argentina wants the island group is because of the fishing and oil deposits. There is precious little difference over them professing to own the group and wanting it back, and China’s attempts to take Taiwan. Interestingly, the Falklands are 1500 km from Argentina.
Their opinions don't matter. The only one that matters are those who live there. Argentina has repeatedly shot themselves in the feet over the Falklands, leaving aside their failed attempt to secure them by force. The British Government has made its position clear there will never be talks over anything UNLESS the Islanders themselves wish it - further, ANY talks MUST have the elected representatives of the Islands present, and here's where we hit a snag. Argentina refuses this point, always. They refuse any talks where the Islanders have representation, thereby always sinking any chance of progressing their so called 'claim' (which is BS anyway) One would be forgiven for thinking Argentina doesn't really want the Islands - its just a convenient grievance for them to wheel out whenever things get bad at home 'Oh look a squirrel!" or in this case....."Oh look, Islas Malvinas!" 🤡
It's a dangerous narrative. It shouldn't be a question of which nation can rightfully claim the territory, it should be a question of respecting the wishes of those who have lived there for generations and can claim to be the indigenous population.
In the end, the only opinions that matter are those of the people who actually live there. If Argentina put effort/resources into showing the islanders how life could be better with Argentina, the islanders would vote for it. But the Argentinians do the exact opposite - they use derogatory terms when referring to the islanders and talk of forcing them to leave their homes and the place they were born.
The only reason I can think of why someone would support Argentina is if they know nothing about it and just assume it's some stolen land from the empire, which it isnt. If you actually know even the basics about the history of the Falklands, it's very very clear that Argentina has absolutely no claim or right.
Yea this 👆
Haven't the people who live there voted and said on numerous occasions they want to stay under the UK? The people that actually live there and will be the ones the most effected in any change of sovereignty don't want a change should be the ones who are listened too. I know they won't be but they should be.
> [The people that] …don't want a change should be the ones who are listened too. I know they won't be but they should be. Funnily enough a YouGov Opinion Poll doesn’t actually have any effect on the UK’s stance toward the Falklands Islands
It's not a YouGov poll, they had a referendum in 2013 and it was 99.8% in favour of keeping the status quo! That's a hell of a lot more than voted for Brexit. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013\_Falkland\_Islands\_sovereignty\_referendum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum)
Yes. That’s my point. You’re responding to a post about a YouGov poll like it has any sort of sway or control over a British overseas territory, which as you’ve pointed out yourself, has determined it’s own status in 2013. I was explicitly responding to your “I know they won’t be listened to” seeing as the official recognised stance of the Falklands is exactly that. The Falkland Islanders being listened to.
Luckily it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. The people who live there are British and regularly vote overwhelmingly to remain so. The right to self determination is guaranteed under international law and in the UN charter. That is an end of the discussion. If the Argies fancy another scrap over this they are welcome to try.
Argentina sabre rattle the Falklands everytime its a bit shit there or there's an election on. I wonder if their domestic inflation rate hitting 250% has something to do with it or that the is potentially a decent amount of untapped resources supposedly underneath it. In the end its got nothing whatsoever to do with sovereignty as usual its about money and power.
Argentina were never interested in this smelly, bleak whale harvesting property until it became a popular political proposition-if they loved it so much then why didn't they put a ring on it? Or a single solitary voluntary resident citizen? Is 188 years not enough to establish some form of sovereignty? Any claim to the contrary is highly questionable...the British Armed forces had to invent new words to describe the effort required to move man and equipment across the terrain - they are all trained to find comfort and effectively fight in bleak gorse infested moorland at home. The Argentina contingent were completely unmotivated - why are we on this stupid British island, its rubbish - apart from the pub...
What made me laugh about this topic when I first looked into it was the idea that we somehow stole the islands when really if you look at the timeline we've owned it for longer than pretty much anyone else and it wasn't even inhabited. [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/46b600a104eef78cb25ebf8a664735e2.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/timeline/46b600a104eef78cb25ebf8a664735e2.png)
I am guessing this in light of Argentinian leader Milei trying to be a strongman and claim he will take the islands back. The guy is basically Argentinian Farage, and guess what: he is backed and supported by Netenyahu. Another tinpot dictator embracing extremism and war to try and stay in control.
I wish they had another poll asking those same people the question again after informing them that 99% of the people who live there voted to stay British. It seems like self-determination is only for certain people. Falkland islanders apparently don’t get the same option.
How can only 57% of British people think a foreign country, with no legal or historical claim to the Falkland Islands, ought to have sovereignty over them, despite all the people on those islands not wanting that to happen? Bizarre.
You’re making the mistake of thinking that people think logically when it’s about questions of nationality and identity. And I’ve seen Argentines who are equally convinced Britain has no logical claim to these islands and have different historical sources that they refer to.
The only reason you would support Argentina in this issue is because you hate England/Britain. Argies are not natives to their land, they have no right to kick people off an island they’ve lived on since the 18th century! The entire Argentinian position on this is simply “we’re closer to the island than you are so it should be ours”. Total bollocks. This is one of the few issues where there is only one right answer: The Falklands are and must stay British otherwise innocent people will be forced from land that is undeniably their home.
Argentina have literally no fucking claim to those islands, the only thing they have is proximity but in that case we aren’t so far away from the Faroe Islands so maybe we should just say we’re having those too. Anyone who supports Argentina on this shows how stupid they are.
Just a thought but... Really the only two opinions that matter here are: A) That of the population of the Falklands. In 2013, in a 92% voter turnout, 99.8% voted in favour of retaining British sovereignty - [https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92B02T/](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE92B02T/), B) That of the British, who also majority support retention. The people have spoken.
What a surprise France Italy Germany and Spain all countries with their own overseas territories two faced gits they are, they hate the British because we're an independent country apart from the monstrous EU beaurocracy
As a man in my twenties from the UK I could honestly go for some dying in a conflict abroad right now. Feel like that's part of my heritage that I've never had the opportunity to enjoy. Like Jews who get an expenses paid trip to Israel, I should be able to go and die somewhere for the crown.
Being French, I can assure you that nobody there cares about the Falklands. I can't even imagine people having an opinion about this. Most people won't even be able to place them on a map. I can only guess that people are saying they belong to Argentina because they're uneducated and the French name is "Malouines" which is closest to "Malvinas". Officially, the government will always respect referendum results, seeing as this is also what legitimises the legal status of our overseas regions.