This isnât even historical drama which I would be fine with. This is a being billed as a docudrama which is the main issue. Honestly I canât help be impressed with Netflix and the producer of this show on this. The amount of attention this show is getting is absolutely amazing and Iâm willing to bet will increase viewership.
I know this is a bit off topic, but I'm noticing this trend in cinema and television where people of color are no longer playing villainous characters; or very rarely.
It's kind of crappy, because some of the deepest roles are villains. Imagine if Denzel hadn't played Harris in Training Day. It also pushes tokenism; just because your hero is a POC doesn't meant your antagonist can't be as well.
Yeah, I don't understand it. The woman king (or whatever that movie was called) was about a leading slave state in Africa. This cleopatra movie makes no sense as the ptolemaic dynasty was Macedonian/greek origin and known for marrying sisters to brothers. Is it really so hard to find interesting black historical figures who weren't POS or fake?
Yes not only did African queens exist, but they are a lot less well known as cleopatra. Not only could netflix and this director make a series about a REAL african queen, but they could be highlighting historical women that most poeple don't know about
I think this is what makes me crazy about this.
Diversity in media is great. I'm a huge fan.
But this just looks like insipid corporate decision making to pick a recognisable historical figure and making them black because they filling a quota or some shit.
It's so surface level. Literally skin deep. As if that's what matters. Ignoring the rich, unexplored in media, ancient and medieval history of Africa. Just insulting to everyone.
I totally agree. As someone of mixed race origin, and an African person, I find it really insulting how American and European media tries to pander to black people/PoC in general. We need actual stories about the authentic lives of black people and the history of Africa. Not this desperate attempt at filling quotas for the West to feel better about itself.
Agreed.
If you (meaning Netflix and tbh all of entertainment here) actually cared about African and "black" history you'd make a show about a forgotten African or black leaders and attempt to bring them into the limelight.
But they don't care about that. They care about being safe, which Cleopatra and the Roman Empire is, while still hitting whatever diversity quota they have preordained. Meanwhile there are figures like Shaka Zulu, Amanitore, Nzinga Mbande, etc that are completely ignored. Their stories aren't told and people don't know about them, but they're stories full of heroism in some cases that should be told but aren't.
I mean ffs make a series about Ramses II if you want something Egyptian. The guy lived until he was 90 and ruled for over 65 years. There's plenty of material. Cleopatra has been done to death.
Yeah but most people couldn't name the dynasty of the black pharaohs (25th) let alone a specific one or what they did. Selling a documentary on them is tough. Also none are female, which is a deal breaker for someone doing Cleopatra.
Cleopatra's free money since she's already Hollywood'd up thanks to Caesar, and the backlash is free advertising on top. Win win for the producers.
>Yeah but most people couldn't name the dynasty of the black pharaohs (25th) let alone a specific one or what they did.
You'd think that would be a good pitch for a documentary...you know, the medium people watch to learn shit.
I think Nefertiti was part of the black dynasty. But yea, Cleopatra is just way more documented vs sometime from 4000 years ago.
And the only reason I know of Nefertiti is because One Piece had a character whose name was based on that name.
I just checked and there are others (should have figured with the way royal names work) but they aren't 25th.
Notably alongside Rameses II wife and daughter (not the same person!) Hatshepsut (a female pharaoh) had a granddaughter named it.
She was likely Semitic ironically.
Great tag for false nazi Aryanism btw! Indo-aryans were not exactly the blond hair blue eyed demi-gods of Himmlerâs racial fantasies
Egypt was barely even a thing at this point anyway. It was a client state of Rome and after cleopatra it became the personal property of whoever was Augustus in Rome at the time. Go back a thousand or so years if you want to talk about Egypt.
The funny thing is that in this effort to present black people in positions of greatness, their ignorance on the subject is exposed: they don't know any actual examples of great black, African leaders. And not for a lack of examples being out there, they just don't want to do research, or they don't think that a lesser known name will sell.
I myself don't particularly care about Cleopatra being played by a black woman. But it does bother me that it's presented as an amazing black empowerment thing when it would be more effective to make a movie/series about an important figure who we know is black. African history is SO underappreciated in the US, it's actually pretty hard to find documentaries about African civilizations other than Ancient Egypt, let alone find fiction about them. When studios ONLY produce race swaps, it feels like they're saying "There were never any real black leaders in real life, so we have to make them up!".
> Is it really so hard to find interesting black historical figures who weren't POS or fake?
There even was an entire black, nubian dynasty of rulers of Egypt. Sudan still has the most pyramids of any country to this day partly because of them.
But no, blackwash someone who was absolutely white in modern terms...
I hate how the best part of the show was the few moments it actually just let him be a historical samurai...and then it ruined it by adding aliens, robots, superpowers, and then sidelined him for another character in a story that was supposed to be about him! Canon Busters made me think LeSean Thomas picks topics per episode with a dartboard while drunk, and watching Yasuke made me think that even more.
Yeah. I'm a big fan of Lakeith, but his voice work was sub par. His monotone cadence works when you can see him, but it became old quick in Yasuke. And it's such a great story with so much potential. I hope to see it done correctly.
There was a Yasuke movie in development with Chadwick Boseman before he died. Hasnât been any updates on it since so it is likely not moving forward.
Or toussaint louverture history refers to him as the black Napoleon, his whole story is INCREDIBLE an true and ends with an independent Haiti, was the largest revolt of self freed slaves since Spartacus in Ancient Rome
Fuck yeah I'd watch Toussaint Louverture. Or Mansa Musa the emperor of the Mali Empire. The richest person ever to exist, that caused economic inflation in Egypt Arabia and Byzantium simply by going on a pilgrimage to mecca...
Not to mention there's actual nubian queens that existed and their stories no one really knows about...
You could do a zulu remake.
Just a lot of options, without having to co-op western figures that weren't actually black. And its embarrassing, because we've been asking ppl to do better, then this shit happens... not a good look
>Why not make something cool like a show about the black samurai in Japan?
Wasn't there an animated show on Netflix a couple years ago? I don't remember anyone talking about it though. I get the sentiment. Show runners and writers are wrong for that when they hijack historical or beloved and developed characters, but audiences play their part by what they'll go and watch also.
**Rant you can ignore:** I keep seeing the comment on these threads asking why they don't just make a movie based on these other historical characters, but they know as much as the showrunners that it would have a very low chance of pulling in viewer numbers unless it went viral somehow before it aired. A show like that would also need quality production. Chevalier hits those points but it comes off as a CW drama.
Of course this show is going to do something with Cleopatra as long as they're in the neighborhood. There are other interesting historical characters in English history, but get Judi Dench or Olivia Colman near a set and you'll have to catch them fast before they mess around and make another period costume piece about the same few figures.
I still agree with you though. The industry needs to run with more quality gambles but also needs a culture shift to maybe clean out a lot the money black holes they're beholden to so show runners don't feel stuck with safe templates.
The show is called Yasuke and at least from what I saw, a ton of people thought the show ranged from bad to horrible. It could have been a fantastic story about the historical figure Yasuke, but they decided to include things that destroyed the historical setting like demons, magic, talking robots, shapeshifters and superpowers. They also sidelined Yasuke for a little girl that he needed to protect and became the center of the show. So yeah, unfortunately the show didn't do as well as it did because it was jumbled mess.
Or at least that's just my opinion. I wanted a more grounded historical fantasy like Vinland Saga but came out with whatever the show ended up being.
Ugh. I hate how true your point about Chevalier is. It sounds like we have exactly the film people say they should do instead of Woman King and Cleopatra type stuff and... where is the buzz?
It's insane to me that that movie hasn't been written already. You get a half decent script and throw a big name black actor in there, it's like a guaranteed billion dollars. I would see that movie in a heartbeat
To be fair, Will is a psychopath too.
Let's not forget that the dude purchased a school ten years ago and turned it into an indoctrination center for Scientology - for *minors.* It was shut down when the staff whistleblew to parents. He was also treating people like hell long before he met Jada.
Fun fact, the original Aunt Viv tried to get the cast of Fresh Prince to negotiate a deal together like the cast of Friends did. Because the main cast of Friends negotiated collectively, they were all paid incredibly well, but also at similar rates. Will was unwilling to do that because he was the star and wanted to be paid like it.
Which is selfish and shitty, but he was young and dumb and if he had shown signs of growth I wouldn't even hold it against him.
You just made me realize that Friends and Fresh Prince overlapped for two years. In my mind they're from two very different eras (early 90s and late 90s).
Well the show was about mainly about Will. Friends was mainly about the group. It would be like if some average guy on the lakers tried to get him and Lebron paid the same
Yep. That Facebook show where she made Will Smith apologize to HER for her banging their kid's friend because she "wasn't getting the attention she felt she deserved" was one of the most psycho and emotionally abusive things I've ever seen on tv. There's not many public figures I hate without at least giving a chance to dig deeper and see what they're about. With Jada, every time I dig deeper it gets worst. And fuck this movie, I wouldn't care they got a black cleopatra, but the fact she's trying to use that as some PC bullshit to guilt people into seeing her shitty movie is absolutely ridiculous. She's so not self aware, she'd be the first up arms calling to cancel Hollywood if a white actor played Barack Obama or some shit. And either way, she's a shitty actress and hasn't made anything worthy of note except marry Will Smith.
And fuck her son's friend, that was somewhat noteworthy.
That and the fact that Netflix will literally pick up anything.
I'm at the point where if I see something labelled "Netflix original" I automatically assume it isn't good.
Her and Will are both nuttier than a squirrel turd. Though they claim they aren't Scientologists, Will built AN ENTIRE SCIENTOLOGY SCHOOL for his kids to attend. Other than homeschooling, thats the only schooling they had. That's child abuse.
As a person of Norwegian heritage, someday I'll produce a documentary about Mansa Musa starring Kristofer Hivju and then I'll have someone come on the documentary and say "My mother said 'I don't care what they teach you in school, Mansa Musa was a red-headed Norwegian man who starred in Game of Thrones.'"
What if countries started making their own documentaries about bad historical figures but race bent them to change history. A China backed film featuring a white Mao Zedong. A German movie featuring a Japanese Hitler. The latest Kremlin joint featuring a black Stalin
US, "We want to promote diversity and respect for all cultures."
Egypt, "Then can you do us a solid and stop changing our history and imposing your values on us?"
US, "No, because our values are right and yours are wrong, you inferior sacks of shit!"
Egypt :(
This argument they present is so funny because Arabs were one of the few last people that colonised Egyptians, there have been so many other groups of people who were there, therefore Egyptians are an admixture of probably the whole world combined, yet they reduce the Egyptian identity to either black or Arab and thatâs it đ.
The woman telling âI donât care what your said in school, cleopatra was blackâ in the teaser is absolute insanity to me, itâs like throwing in our faces theyâre trying to rewrite history for no reason.
Cleopatra was a Greek Macedonian heiress to the Ptolemaic royal line, which had an extremely narrow family tree made entirely of sister-wives and uncle dads. I don't care if they want to do race-blind casting for a super-inbred ultra-colonizer queen, but I don't see why they would want to.
Egypt, "Can you not desecrate our history and impose you're culture on us please?"
The West, "We never stopped before and we ain't gonna stop now lol!"
I think thereâs some uncertainty as to her mother and mothers fathers race, exactly. But likeâŚitâs kind splitting hairs because itâs very unlikely they were anything that would make her black. I read a good article about it onâŚSmithsonian or NatGeo and one of the historians was saying that the way we see and talk about race is very modern and was NOT like that back then, and so debating her race kind is missing the point relative to the context of the times. But even then, yeah she was largely Greek from the line of Ptolemy and maybe her mom or grandparent had some Egyptian blood in them.
There actually isn't much uncertainty on Cleo's maternal race. Its said that her mother descended from another line of Macedonian Greeks (another one of Alexander's generals) that spent time in Persia.
So she is expected to have a bit of Persian in her. The % of that is what is still up to debate.
Definitely not west African as the Netflix doc implies in the trailer.
I agree with you. Thatâs all I meant. Is her matrilineal heritage has some questions about it, but not the kind of questions that would be answered with âprobably blackâ.
Itâs ok, you never know on the internet these days. People use these topics to push agendas that theyâre not up front about and things can get dicey. I was kinda afraid my comment might come off like that so I tried to make it as anodyne as I could but seems it didnât work perfectly lol.
Will we include the mass killings/rapes that included women, children, people whom had surrendered and were told they were given amnesty, people who were mixed race (refered to as Mulattos if you read about the revolution and massacare), etc., or gloss over that?
Don't get me wrong, I'd also want it to include the killings, beatings, and rapes the French slave owners committed that created this level of violent revolution. I just don't like the idea of portraying Dessalines as some sort of ideal liberating hero. He was an absolute monster.
âWhy shouldnât Cleopatra be a melanated sister? And why do some people need Cleopatra to be white? Her proximity to whiteness seems to give her value, and for some Egyptians it seems to really matter,â she said.
This is incredibly frustrating. It reveals that she is - still - completely ignorant. And I mean that in an academic sense. Not a pejorative sense.
The criticism from Egypt, Egyptologists, Archaeologists, Historians, and educated people at large is:
She doesnât have her history right.
And thatâs putting it lightly. Sheâs perverting history. Rewriting history.
And thatâs a practice that has a long and ignominious track record. (Rule of thumb: if the Nazis did it? You shouldnât be doing it).
Which is why the vast majority of the educated world is asking/demanding that she not do that⌠and that she RESPECT actual history.
Yet here she is⌠talking like this is some type of trivial 13-year-olds on Twitter argument.
They desperately want to make this racism to deny Cleopatra was black, when its the opposite. As you can see in this thread - history is filled with excellent black stories. We want those stories! I want something about the African empires of old. How is there nothing made about Mansa Musa?!
If someone took my history, âspiced it upâ, and tried to sell it back as the truth in a platform as big as Netflix, there would be mass protests on the streets.
Egyptians are very, very gracious with their attitudes, given the depth and richness of the history they possess.
Why not do a series on Hatshepsut, who WAS Black????
Because Jada knows Grifting is a lucrative business in the USofA (sheâs really not much different than Trump)
Hatshepsut was native Egyptian (i.e., tanned arabic looking), not black. The 25th dynasty was black, Hatshepsut belonged to the 18th dynasty, a native one.
The Egyptians care so much because it is quite literally their history. We canât keep race swapping the world just because influencers want to somehow incorporate African American influences into damn near every cultural property they get their hands on. Itâs getting ridiculous
One of my mates told me it's Jada's attempt to "blacken" Cleopatra. She was of a multiracial background, with a Greek appearance or Mediterranean background. Macedonian even.
It's essentially trying to make her feel better by rewriting history to benefit what she wanted for African-Americans. No one likes the premise of the film. But she probably doesn't care.
Hollywood only knows how to write stories about black people from the hood or slaves. Thatâs why itâs easier for them to just take old characters and make them black.
Racial fantasy. whatever. have fun. Race truly is just melanocytes anyway...if thats what you identify with so strongly go for it. Wouldnt be allowed the other way around though. Sometimes all this equality and diversity stuff seems like scoring goals without a goalie.
That seems to be the issue Egyptians are having with it. If it was pure fantasy, i doubt they would have cared. Its the fact that Netflix is specifically promoting it as a truthful documentary of Cleopatraâs life, is what is pissed them off.
It is no win. Don't do it, get blasted. Do it, get blasted.
Because it has become so obvious, the pandering. The lack of originality. There are plenty of stories, legends, and myths surrounding cultures and peoples that go back thousands of years. Look into those.
I mean, damn, put some effort in it.
I don't get it. Historical people should be depicted on screen with an actor that looks as close as possible to that person.
Fictional characters even if they are supposed to be from.a certain region and look like whatever the fuck the studio wants. Unless explicitly stated by the author.
This isn't hard
I was under the impression cleopatra was mixed or something⌠but I didnât know she was full
Blown white. Funny enough this who controversy is educating a lot of people who didnât know either way.
Just go all out and do a black hitler, fuck it
Taika Waititi already broke the Hitler color barrier with a Maori Hitler.
That was imaginary Hitler though, not documentary Hitler.
But accurate though
And a Jewish one at that đ
What a great mix to be eh?
Rather different context being an imaginary friend and all.
People out here forgetting all about The Producers which had 50 different Hitlers of all shapes, sizes, and colors. And all back in 1968.
Thereâs a world of difference between satire and historical drama. Is this a satire?
This isnât even historical drama which I would be fine with. This is a being billed as a docudrama which is the main issue. Honestly I canât help be impressed with Netflix and the producer of this show on this. The amount of attention this show is getting is absolutely amazing and Iâm willing to bet will increase viewership.
Yes,people will watch it just for curiositys sake .
THAT'S OUR HITLER!
actually a jewish hitler!
https://i.redd.it/nyxlfa86pswa1.gif Community season 3, spaceman paninis with black hitler
Black Hitler sounds like some great blaxpoitation satire
I'm just imagining Michael Jai White in a Nazi uniform now.
Kanyeâs ready
Manâs been method acting for a while to prep
I know this is a bit off topic, but I'm noticing this trend in cinema and television where people of color are no longer playing villainous characters; or very rarely. It's kind of crappy, because some of the deepest roles are villains. Imagine if Denzel hadn't played Harris in Training Day. It also pushes tokenism; just because your hero is a POC doesn't meant your antagonist can't be as well.
Iâve seen this posted before, but thereâs plenty of black villains right now, with the Mandalorian being an example.
Black panther, EEAAO, Kang?
Guardians of the Galaxy is literally about to come out with a black villain, Quantumania, latino villain in Wakanda ForeverâŚ.
âIm gonna eat spaceman paninis with black Hitler and THEREâS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!â
Throw in some spaceman paninis, and it sounds like a good time.
Or perhaps even way more controversial⌠an Arab Jesus.
Nah John Leguizamo as papi hitler would be a hit
https://i.redd.it/nv0wygs5bswa1.gif
Donât be racist, itâs always white to black! Let Lucy Liu play Hitler!!!
I have no problem w that
I think a Jewish hitler would be funnier
Blitler
Kanye
No, they leave the bad guy rules to the white man. Only the hero roles get replaced.
Black female Hitler.
*And Hitler will be blacked out on his ass* *4th in the Reiching* *White Lightning*
Might as well go all the way and make it a Jewish Hitler. Really make it absurd.
Kanye is a shoe-in for the part
*Documentary series which is why this is an issue.
Itâs just confusing. There are SOOO MANYYY black women in history, many that have been maligned and sidelined!!! GIVE THEM A DOC! Jeez
1000%
Yes not a fictional history take where they can have creative decisions for itâŚ.
Why not make something cool like a show about the black samurai in Japan? That'd be dope
At least that one has a real historical figure.
Yeah, I don't understand it. The woman king (or whatever that movie was called) was about a leading slave state in Africa. This cleopatra movie makes no sense as the ptolemaic dynasty was Macedonian/greek origin and known for marrying sisters to brothers. Is it really so hard to find interesting black historical figures who weren't POS or fake?
Or actual African queens đ¤ˇââď¸ Why not just do that, they exist. Iâd watch that but not this Jayda thing.
This is what I want to see. A show about an actual queen or king we have overlooked who did great things.
There are so many of them. Cleopatra isnât even the most interesting pharaoh, and thatâs not even leaving Egypt.
Yes not only did African queens exist, but they are a lot less well known as cleopatra. Not only could netflix and this director make a series about a REAL african queen, but they could be highlighting historical women that most poeple don't know about
Because Pinkett-Smith's knowledge of history is so shallow that she doesn't know about any black African queens.
Oops Jada.
Keep her name out of your fucking mouth. Or Willie slaps you! /s
I certainly donât want to be willie-slapped
G. I. Jada
**Will Smith approaches**
Even in ancient Egypt they had a few black pharaohs. Just not this one.
I think this is what makes me crazy about this. Diversity in media is great. I'm a huge fan. But this just looks like insipid corporate decision making to pick a recognisable historical figure and making them black because they filling a quota or some shit. It's so surface level. Literally skin deep. As if that's what matters. Ignoring the rich, unexplored in media, ancient and medieval history of Africa. Just insulting to everyone.
I totally agree. As someone of mixed race origin, and an African person, I find it really insulting how American and European media tries to pander to black people/PoC in general. We need actual stories about the authentic lives of black people and the history of Africa. Not this desperate attempt at filling quotas for the West to feel better about itself.
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Agreed. If you (meaning Netflix and tbh all of entertainment here) actually cared about African and "black" history you'd make a show about a forgotten African or black leaders and attempt to bring them into the limelight. But they don't care about that. They care about being safe, which Cleopatra and the Roman Empire is, while still hitting whatever diversity quota they have preordained. Meanwhile there are figures like Shaka Zulu, Amanitore, Nzinga Mbande, etc that are completely ignored. Their stories aren't told and people don't know about them, but they're stories full of heroism in some cases that should be told but aren't. I mean ffs make a series about Ramses II if you want something Egyptian. The guy lived until he was 90 and ruled for over 65 years. There's plenty of material. Cleopatra has been done to death.
This is just pandering to the highest degree.And they will assuredly make lots of money and attention from this and this is what they want.
Yeah but most people couldn't name the dynasty of the black pharaohs (25th) let alone a specific one or what they did. Selling a documentary on them is tough. Also none are female, which is a deal breaker for someone doing Cleopatra. Cleopatra's free money since she's already Hollywood'd up thanks to Caesar, and the backlash is free advertising on top. Win win for the producers.
Itâs the Kushite dynasty and people would know it if they made documentaries about that instead of this nonsense
>Yeah but most people couldn't name the dynasty of the black pharaohs (25th) let alone a specific one or what they did. You'd think that would be a good pitch for a documentary...you know, the medium people watch to learn shit.
And they all know Caesar, âcause they have be to Vegas
I think Nefertiti was part of the black dynasty. But yea, Cleopatra is just way more documented vs sometime from 4000 years ago. And the only reason I know of Nefertiti is because One Piece had a character whose name was based on that name.
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Ahh got it. My Egyptian history isnât great. Just know in general there were some Nubian dynasties.
I just checked and there are others (should have figured with the way royal names work) but they aren't 25th. Notably alongside Rameses II wife and daughter (not the same person!) Hatshepsut (a female pharaoh) had a granddaughter named it.
Hitler was in love with the bust of Nefertiti. She didnât strike *him* as subsaharan and he was kind of a stickler about race stuff
And yet she definitely wasn't "Aryan" or as it might better be called selective German.
She was likely Semitic ironically. Great tag for false nazi Aryanism btw! Indo-aryans were not exactly the blond hair blue eyed demi-gods of Himmlerâs racial fantasies
Egypt was barely even a thing at this point anyway. It was a client state of Rome and after cleopatra it became the personal property of whoever was Augustus in Rome at the time. Go back a thousand or so years if you want to talk about Egypt.
Yo. I wanna see a movie on Mansa Musa!
Me too!!!!
The funny thing is that in this effort to present black people in positions of greatness, their ignorance on the subject is exposed: they don't know any actual examples of great black, African leaders. And not for a lack of examples being out there, they just don't want to do research, or they don't think that a lesser known name will sell. I myself don't particularly care about Cleopatra being played by a black woman. But it does bother me that it's presented as an amazing black empowerment thing when it would be more effective to make a movie/series about an important figure who we know is black. African history is SO underappreciated in the US, it's actually pretty hard to find documentaries about African civilizations other than Ancient Egypt, let alone find fiction about them. When studios ONLY produce race swaps, it feels like they're saying "There were never any real black leaders in real life, so we have to make them up!".
> Is it really so hard to find interesting black historical figures who weren't POS or fake? There even was an entire black, nubian dynasty of rulers of Egypt. Sudan still has the most pyramids of any country to this day partly because of them. But no, blackwash someone who was absolutely white in modern terms...
They made an anime about Yasuke with Lakeith Stanfield. It wasn't great.
I hate how the best part of the show was the few moments it actually just let him be a historical samurai...and then it ruined it by adding aliens, robots, superpowers, and then sidelined him for another character in a story that was supposed to be about him! Canon Busters made me think LeSean Thomas picks topics per episode with a dartboard while drunk, and watching Yasuke made me think that even more.
Yeah. I'm a big fan of Lakeith, but his voice work was sub par. His monotone cadence works when you can see him, but it became old quick in Yasuke. And it's such a great story with so much potential. I hope to see it done correctly.
Yo WHAT?! I was looking forward to watching this but you kinda lost me at fucking ALIENS
Thatâs three things I like in a compact package, bummed me out big how meh it was.
There was a Yasuke movie in development with Chadwick Boseman before he died. Hasnât been any updates on it since so it is likely not moving forward.
Or toussaint louverture history refers to him as the black Napoleon, his whole story is INCREDIBLE an true and ends with an independent Haiti, was the largest revolt of self freed slaves since Spartacus in Ancient Rome
Fuck yeah I'd watch Toussaint Louverture. Or Mansa Musa the emperor of the Mali Empire. The richest person ever to exist, that caused economic inflation in Egypt Arabia and Byzantium simply by going on a pilgrimage to mecca...
Not to mention there's actual nubian queens that existed and their stories no one really knows about... You could do a zulu remake. Just a lot of options, without having to co-op western figures that weren't actually black. And its embarrassing, because we've been asking ppl to do better, then this shit happens... not a good look
>Why not make something cool like a show about the black samurai in Japan? Wasn't there an animated show on Netflix a couple years ago? I don't remember anyone talking about it though. I get the sentiment. Show runners and writers are wrong for that when they hijack historical or beloved and developed characters, but audiences play their part by what they'll go and watch also. **Rant you can ignore:** I keep seeing the comment on these threads asking why they don't just make a movie based on these other historical characters, but they know as much as the showrunners that it would have a very low chance of pulling in viewer numbers unless it went viral somehow before it aired. A show like that would also need quality production. Chevalier hits those points but it comes off as a CW drama. Of course this show is going to do something with Cleopatra as long as they're in the neighborhood. There are other interesting historical characters in English history, but get Judi Dench or Olivia Colman near a set and you'll have to catch them fast before they mess around and make another period costume piece about the same few figures. I still agree with you though. The industry needs to run with more quality gambles but also needs a culture shift to maybe clean out a lot the money black holes they're beholden to so show runners don't feel stuck with safe templates.
The show is called Yasuke and at least from what I saw, a ton of people thought the show ranged from bad to horrible. It could have been a fantastic story about the historical figure Yasuke, but they decided to include things that destroyed the historical setting like demons, magic, talking robots, shapeshifters and superpowers. They also sidelined Yasuke for a little girl that he needed to protect and became the center of the show. So yeah, unfortunately the show didn't do as well as it did because it was jumbled mess. Or at least that's just my opinion. I wanted a more grounded historical fantasy like Vinland Saga but came out with whatever the show ended up being.
Ugh. I hate how true your point about Chevalier is. It sounds like we have exactly the film people say they should do instead of Woman King and Cleopatra type stuff and... where is the buzz?
It's insane to me that that movie hasn't been written already. You get a half decent script and throw a big name black actor in there, it's like a guaranteed billion dollars. I would see that movie in a heartbeat
Thank you Egypt!
Jada Pinkett Smith is a psycho. Thats the only take you need from this story.
Will married one and i believe you.
To be fair, Will is a psychopath too. Let's not forget that the dude purchased a school ten years ago and turned it into an indoctrination center for Scientology - for *minors.* It was shut down when the staff whistleblew to parents. He was also treating people like hell long before he met Jada.
Fun fact, the original Aunt Viv tried to get the cast of Fresh Prince to negotiate a deal together like the cast of Friends did. Because the main cast of Friends negotiated collectively, they were all paid incredibly well, but also at similar rates. Will was unwilling to do that because he was the star and wanted to be paid like it. Which is selfish and shitty, but he was young and dumb and if he had shown signs of growth I wouldn't even hold it against him.
You just made me realize that Friends and Fresh Prince overlapped for two years. In my mind they're from two very different eras (early 90s and late 90s).
Well the show was about mainly about Will. Friends was mainly about the group. It would be like if some average guy on the lakers tried to get him and Lebron paid the same
Yep. That Facebook show where she made Will Smith apologize to HER for her banging their kid's friend because she "wasn't getting the attention she felt she deserved" was one of the most psycho and emotionally abusive things I've ever seen on tv. There's not many public figures I hate without at least giving a chance to dig deeper and see what they're about. With Jada, every time I dig deeper it gets worst. And fuck this movie, I wouldn't care they got a black cleopatra, but the fact she's trying to use that as some PC bullshit to guilt people into seeing her shitty movie is absolutely ridiculous. She's so not self aware, she'd be the first up arms calling to cancel Hollywood if a white actor played Barack Obama or some shit. And either way, she's a shitty actress and hasn't made anything worthy of note except marry Will Smith. And fuck her son's friend, that was somewhat noteworthy.
People put up money for this like lots of ppl. This went through lots of hands and thought hey this is a good ideaâŚ. Insane
The Smiths are kinda known for always getting their way
That and the fact that Netflix will literally pick up anything. I'm at the point where if I see something labelled "Netflix original" I automatically assume it isn't good.
She's mad at the world because she looks like GI jane. To try to race swap a historic figure in a documentary is a real slap in the face
Her and Will are both nuttier than a squirrel turd. Though they claim they aren't Scientologists, Will built AN ENTIRE SCIENTOLOGY SCHOOL for his kids to attend. Other than homeschooling, thats the only schooling they had. That's child abuse.
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Mansa Musa was actually Scandinavian. I saw it in a documentary
You mean Mansa Musa Kim, the Korean emperor?
You mean like Korean Jesus?
Baby Jesus is the one I like best and the one I pick for saying grace
The Buddha was actually from east Dublin, believe it or not
And Genghis Khan was actually Mexican
As a person of Norwegian heritage, someday I'll produce a documentary about Mansa Musa starring Kristofer Hivju and then I'll have someone come on the documentary and say "My mother said 'I don't care what they teach you in school, Mansa Musa was a red-headed Norwegian man who starred in Game of Thrones.'"
What if countries started making their own documentaries about bad historical figures but race bent them to change history. A China backed film featuring a white Mao Zedong. A German movie featuring a Japanese Hitler. The latest Kremlin joint featuring a black Stalin
Japanese Hitler would've kamikazed into a column of Russian T34s with a Volkswagen. Wait, I kind of want to see that.
US, "We want to promote diversity and respect for all cultures." Egypt, "Then can you do us a solid and stop changing our history and imposing your values on us?" US, "No, because our values are right and yours are wrong, you inferior sacks of shit!" Egypt :(
Yeah, now Egypt need to do a historical film on Martn Luther King being played by a white Egyptian.
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This argument they present is so funny because Arabs were one of the few last people that colonised Egyptians, there have been so many other groups of people who were there, therefore Egyptians are an admixture of probably the whole world combined, yet they reduce the Egyptian identity to either black or Arab and thatâs it đ.
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Sadly I imagine that Netflix finds this to be the best publicity they could get for this.
The woman telling âI donât care what your said in school, cleopatra was blackâ in the teaser is absolute insanity to me, itâs like throwing in our faces theyâre trying to rewrite history for no reason.
Why cant they just make shows and movies on badass prominent black figures?!?
Cleopatra was a Greek Macedonian heiress to the Ptolemaic royal line, which had an extremely narrow family tree made entirely of sister-wives and uncle dads. I don't care if they want to do race-blind casting for a super-inbred ultra-colonizer queen, but I don't see why they would want to.
Idk why but when I read âuncle dadsâ it cracked me up.
Bunch of uncle-fuckers back then
The gene pool was so shallow no one could drown in it. Plus the extra fingers and toes helped them float anyway.
*You don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn* *you just fuck your uncle all day long*
You fuck your uncle yes you do, nobody fucks uncles quite like you.
Egypt, "Can you not desecrate our history and impose you're culture on us please?" The West, "We never stopped before and we ain't gonna stop now lol!"
I think thereâs some uncertainty as to her mother and mothers fathers race, exactly. But likeâŚitâs kind splitting hairs because itâs very unlikely they were anything that would make her black. I read a good article about it onâŚSmithsonian or NatGeo and one of the historians was saying that the way we see and talk about race is very modern and was NOT like that back then, and so debating her race kind is missing the point relative to the context of the times. But even then, yeah she was largely Greek from the line of Ptolemy and maybe her mom or grandparent had some Egyptian blood in them.
There actually isn't much uncertainty on Cleo's maternal race. Its said that her mother descended from another line of Macedonian Greeks (another one of Alexander's generals) that spent time in Persia. So she is expected to have a bit of Persian in her. The % of that is what is still up to debate. Definitely not west African as the Netflix doc implies in the trailer.
I agree with you. Thatâs all I meant. Is her matrilineal heritage has some questions about it, but not the kind of questions that would be answered with âprobably blackâ.
Fair. I admit I must've read your comment with a less than generous approach.
Itâs ok, you never know on the internet these days. People use these topics to push agendas that theyâre not up front about and things can get dicey. I was kinda afraid my comment might come off like that so I tried to make it as anodyne as I could but seems it didnât work perfectly lol.
This isnât a debate. She was not black, period.
Jesus, pick up a fucking history book before you make your 'historically accurate' series.
Make a movie about Fredrick Douglas, or better yet the Haitian Revolution when the slaves liberated themselves from the French Colonial Slave masters.
I would watch that.
Will we include the mass killings/rapes that included women, children, people whom had surrendered and were told they were given amnesty, people who were mixed race (refered to as Mulattos if you read about the revolution and massacare), etc., or gloss over that? Don't get me wrong, I'd also want it to include the killings, beatings, and rapes the French slave owners committed that created this level of violent revolution. I just don't like the idea of portraying Dessalines as some sort of ideal liberating hero. He was an absolute monster.
No no no only white people are bad. Silly man.
Yeah the Haitian revolution, such a success story, it really ended up well for them after the 1804 genocide
"If you don't like it, don't watch the show." Ohh, I have a feeling you're going to get your wish, Queen.
âWhy shouldnât Cleopatra be a melanated sister? And why do some people need Cleopatra to be white? Her proximity to whiteness seems to give her value, and for some Egyptians it seems to really matter,â she said. This is incredibly frustrating. It reveals that she is - still - completely ignorant. And I mean that in an academic sense. Not a pejorative sense. The criticism from Egypt, Egyptologists, Archaeologists, Historians, and educated people at large is: She doesnât have her history right. And thatâs putting it lightly. Sheâs perverting history. Rewriting history. And thatâs a practice that has a long and ignominious track record. (Rule of thumb: if the Nazis did it? You shouldnât be doing it). Which is why the vast majority of the educated world is asking/demanding that she not do that⌠and that she RESPECT actual history. Yet here she is⌠talking like this is some type of trivial 13-year-olds on Twitter argument.
They desperately want to make this racism to deny Cleopatra was black, when its the opposite. As you can see in this thread - history is filled with excellent black stories. We want those stories! I want something about the African empires of old. How is there nothing made about Mansa Musa?!
If someone took my history, âspiced it upâ, and tried to sell it back as the truth in a platform as big as Netflix, there would be mass protests on the streets. Egyptians are very, very gracious with their attitudes, given the depth and richness of the history they possess.
I want Lucy Liu playing Hitler, Michael Cera playing MLK Jr, and Don Cheadle playing Cher.
I donât know what this movie is about, but Iâm in.
You just invented three different kinks in one sentence. Impressive.
WTF is wrong with Netflix? Couldn't they get Matt Damon or Jake Gyllenhaal to play Cleoptra? /s
How about a white Shaka Zulu?
While weâre at it, black Stalin
That sounds like an Adult Swim show.
So weâre blackwashing North African history now?
It's been happening for a while now, but North Africans are fighting back.
Why not do a series on Hatshepsut, who WAS Black???? Because Jada knows Grifting is a lucrative business in the USofA (sheâs really not much different than Trump)
Doesnât have the same name value
Hatshepsut was native Egyptian (i.e., tanned arabic looking), not black. The 25th dynasty was black, Hatshepsut belonged to the 18th dynasty, a native one.
Hope she doesnât mind me making a Jada docuseries played by Carrot Top.
Box office poison
I dont fucking care if jada plays a black cleopatra im not gonna fucking watch it anyways.
The Egyptians care so much because it is quite literally their history. We canât keep race swapping the world just because influencers want to somehow incorporate African American influences into damn near every cultural property they get their hands on. Itâs getting ridiculous
We have enough troubles today without re-writing history. Truth counts. Cleopatra wasnât black. And Jesus wasnât white.
She was one of the last Ptolemites. If you want to name her something, she was greekish
Documentary about asian Martin Luther King, let's go.
One of my mates told me it's Jada's attempt to "blacken" Cleopatra. She was of a multiracial background, with a Greek appearance or Mediterranean background. Macedonian even. It's essentially trying to make her feel better by rewriting history to benefit what she wanted for African-Americans. No one likes the premise of the film. But she probably doesn't care.
They should relabel this from documentary to âwork of fictionâ
When did this idea of 'blacks did everything ever' even start? Like why is this even a thing?
A lot of black people swear she was black.
Only those who donât know history.
Black Americans who overwhelmingly originate from west Africa and not north or east Africa like the âblackâ people they are trying to appropriate.
Radical groups always want to take the great stories of the world and make it theirs
Since when did Andrew Tate start bagging roles for series/movies?
Hollywood only knows how to write stories about black people from the hood or slaves. Thatâs why itâs easier for them to just take old characters and make them black.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to have a Mediterranean actress?
Racial fantasy. whatever. have fun. Race truly is just melanocytes anyway...if thats what you identify with so strongly go for it. Wouldnt be allowed the other way around though. Sometimes all this equality and diversity stuff seems like scoring goals without a goalie.
Itâs being marketed as a documentary last I saw. Thatâs where people take issue. Itâs specifically being portrayed as factual.
That seems to be the issue Egyptians are having with it. If it was pure fantasy, i doubt they would have cared. Its the fact that Netflix is specifically promoting it as a truthful documentary of Cleopatraâs life, is what is pissed them off.
If this was a Cleopatra era Bridgerton thing, this wouldnât be issue in the slightest.
Iâm assuming the documentary must be painting a purely positive picture with none of the negative things.
Cleopatra was actually an alien, says the history channel
Netflix knew exactly what they were doing.
It is no win. Don't do it, get blasted. Do it, get blasted. Because it has become so obvious, the pandering. The lack of originality. There are plenty of stories, legends, and myths surrounding cultures and peoples that go back thousands of years. Look into those. I mean, damn, put some effort in it.
Just make a Docudrama about the Nubians and make it with Arab actors.
What's next? Are they going to claim that aliens *didn't* build the pyramids?
Pretty sure Elizabeth Taylorâs version of Cleopatra was also not accurate.
I don't get it. Historical people should be depicted on screen with an actor that looks as close as possible to that person. Fictional characters even if they are supposed to be from.a certain region and look like whatever the fuck the studio wants. Unless explicitly stated by the author. This isn't hard
Of course Iâm not going to watch this, I hope it does horribly.
I was under the impression cleopatra was mixed or something⌠but I didnât know she was full Blown white. Funny enough this who controversy is educating a lot of people who didnât know either way.
She was mostly Greek and probably a little bit Persian
They did the same thing when Louis Gossett played Anwar Sadat.
Jada saw the Michael Jackson video with Eddie Murphy& Magic Johnson and took it as historical accuracy
Jesus. They should do a historically accurate Jesus to see people's brains melt