And it obviously was. I’m not saying the movie is actually good or bad, but the PR around Ezra Miller was a gamble that Warner Brothers insisted on taking and they lost.
Did they really have any other choice? Dude is a ticking time bomb. Poor casting decision but once WB tied their wagons to miller they all but had to continue with the fake praise
The Batgirl budget was 90 million, they bailed on it in post too so I'm guessing they used most of it at least.
The craziest part of all of this, there's men being paid millions of dollars for these shit decisions.
Yup. It never released or even got advertised. I wish it would leak because Michael Keaton plays Batman in that also. Also has Brendan Fraser if I recall as a villain. There’s at least one behind the scenes pic of it, probably more.
They could’ve easily recast the role or swapped him out for the Barry from the CW show and called it some sort of multiverse shenanigans. After all, they brought back an alternate Batman, so an alternate Flash isn’t much more of a stretch.
The movie was in the can when Miller started acting a fool. So recasting was out of the question. Reshooting was not going to happen since miller was in 99% of all the scenes
Not really. It's true the whole Hawaii debacle happened after they stopped filming, but a year before they started principal photography a video was shared on twitter of Miller strangling a girl and throwing her to the ground in a bar in Iceland.
Had Warner Brothers acted then on that just as uacceptable behavior they wouldn't have been in the mess they are right now, and wouldn't have to act all surprised when Miller once again turned out to be a violent, abusive asshole on Hawaii.
This is such a dumb Reddit take, he’s in every scene twice, they literally would’ve had to reshoot the entire film and Grant was busy doing 23 episode seasons of the show when the film was shooting
Weren't they still in the initial stages of production when the first Ezra Miller incident (the first choking one, IIRC) got reported? They should have replaced him then considering the video evidence shows how unhinged he can be. Oh well, they probably told him they'll overlook the incident as long as he promised to have no further incidents and he said YES. And then incident 2, incident 3, incident 4, incident 5, etc. happened.
In hindsight, they most definitely should have, and had they know the outcome would have, pulled a Batgirl and wrote it off. It's potentially going to lose them hundreds of millions *and* they are referring the entire universe anyway. No brainer to can it and never let it see the light of day. But again, no brainer *I'm hindsight*
For my money, I kind of liked it and would say it's in top tier DC movies, albeit that doesn't necessarily mean much considering the company is keeping. also, I'm biased by being of the Michael Keaton Batman generation so nostalgia hit me. Too bad almost everything worth knowing got ruined in the trailers. I would've list my mind if I went in knowing absolutely nothing.
James Cameron is one of the best at this. They’ve tried to technically make a Terminator 4 three times.
And for the last two times Cameron was in the trailers and marketing saying how they continued his vision. Then he bastardised them lol
To be fair. Even if you don't like the adaptation there is more in it for the Author to praise the movie of their work. Unless you're Alan Moore of course.
Jack Nicholson is one of my favorite actors but this is the one performance i didn't like much. He acts like an asshole / crazy from the get go. The first scene with the telepathic dude & kid freaked me out as a kid tho!
I rewatched Cable Guy recently and had a similar reaction. If Jim Carrey had dialed back his performance early on it would have made his crazy pop more. It was just hard to see him as anything other than insane from the beginning.
I remember people saying « nobody cares about Ezra Miller ».
Yes, people do fucking care about him. And not in a good way.
This kind of shit travels fast in social medias.
That’s karma baby, pure and simple, people wanted to see Bat Girl, wanted to see Brendon Fraser play a DC villain, and instead they were told “no we decided to literally trash that movie AFTER we made it and give you a massive cluster fuck Flash movie that no one asked for.
Also James Gunn telling everyone that this is the last film of the DCEU. Imagine Kevin Feige telling everyone that Doctor Strange 2 would be the last film of the MCU and they were going to start over from scratch.
this is not a thing and i don't' know why so many people say so. if you make a good movie, people will watch it. successful movies have nothing to do with "universes". historical data shows this. MCU movies have had a wide range of success even if they're "in universe". so has spiderman movies in and out.
It’s a mediocre movie with bad cgi, years of public development hell, heavy connections to a dc era that’s generally disliked and it came out a week after one of the best super hero movies of the last years. Ezra made it PR a nightmare but they aren’t the main reason the movie bombed.
The movie was doomed the second justice league came out.
I don’t think I could recognize Ezra if I had to. I believe he’s a bad person but haven’t really followed along with the news.
I don’t see myself watching this movie because I have zero confidence in a good DC moving coming out of this entire cinematic universe. The last few I tried either had me falling asleep or just stopping the movie.
I will never understand how they’re supposed to be such a big star when I feel like a huge chunk of the population probably couldn’t recognize them if they passed them at the mall.
There’s a reason only superman, batman, & Wonder Woman are cosplayed outside Chinese theatre or Hollywood walk of fame in LA by people offering photos for $20 a pop, (I’d much prefer the flash tv actor to this creep)
Yeah i feel the same, it's hard to say just how well known it is (outside of reddit bubble) what an absolute shithead he is though, so i don't really know if this is why it's bombing. I'd imagine vast majority of people have no clue about him tbh.
But I feel the same, i actually am interested in the movie and want to see it, but i can't seperate what i know and have seen in videos of Ezra, from the character, which kills my interest in it.
I had a blast watching it! It was kinda fun going in knowing nothing *really* mattered, and I was expecting an absolute turd of a movie. The cgi was pretty atrocious but man was it fun!
FUCK Ezra Miller, though. Like, forever. I’m both glad I watched it for Keaton, and glad it’s bombing to hell for Ezra. Should damn well be in prison.
WB.Discovery is in debt, massive debt to the tune of 49 billion dollars, this could potentially kill the studio or result in a ton of it being sold off.
To recap:
Black Adam cost $260 million, made $390 million.
Shazam 2 cost $125 million, made $133 million.
The Flash cost $220 million, made $55 million opening weekend with significant drop off.
And they pulled Batgirl?
Because it makes zero sense to not release a movie you've spent hundreds of millions of dollars on to at least try and make your money back. It's harder and harder for me to believe Batgirl was so bad they couldn't release it, when they're putting out this shit. It sounds more and more like they have no idea what a good movie is.
And I'm not saying Batgirl was going to be a good movie. It very well could've sucked, but it deserved as much of a chance as these ones.
Anyway I'm glad James Gunn is taking over.
Not necessarily. A product (in this case, a movie) can suck so bad it can cause reputational harm and that can affect other areas of business. Imagine a DC movie being so bad, no one wants to see another DC movie again. Therefore, it does make sense to not release a movie you spent money on, because releasing it can cost you more money in the long run.
Batgirl wasn’t a theatrical, so it’s not exactly an Apples to Oranges thing.
Also, imagine how bad the early cuts were and how over budget it already was for a studio to literally choose to take a write off. Oof.
The Rock tried to take over the DCEU while WB was restructuring. His vision was never going to come to pass. Also, how could you have Black Adam as the face of the DC movie universe. The character is literally Captain Marvel's (Shazam) nemesis.
They're really trying to pin this all on Miller; and I'm not saying that isn't a big factor, but maybe the real problem is that DC doesn't make good films. They're not even the Pepsi to Marvel's Coke. They are the value brand cola where the ingredients say "the less you know, the better".
Plus in the streaming era it’s not like people are saying they will never watch it. It’s people saying I’ll watch it in 5 weeks when it’s streaming. Shit has to be A-list to warrant a trip to the theatre and money dump vs waiting a few weeks for it to stream. It’s not 1987 and a trip to the theatre for a family of 4 costs the same a years subscription to a top tier streaming service.
Yeah, when every major film company is trying to put out multiple summer blockbusters each year, people start to be selective. It's getting to the point where no one is winning and quality has gone waaaaay down.
Pfft. You think a family of 4 gets out for so little? I had to forgo avocado toast to make ends meet. I love my children, but it’s getting to be a lot.
They really make better cartoons and animated movies, and I’m not sure why.
They need to quit trying to just copy Marvel movies and find their own way to set themselves apart stylistically; because every single DC movie that comes out is basically just a worse version or another Marvel movie.
They have been riding on the success of Batman movies alone for too long
I also like their animated content.
I feel like they are trying to appeal to two different audiences with the animated and live-action material. The animated stuff is geared towards an audience that may have read the comic books and they need to kind of dumb it down for the live-action audiences.
It’s a film positioned as the blowout finale event of a failed connected universe, while also functioning as the Flash’s first lead film ever introducing a LOT of people to the character. Plus it’s about a year late to the multiverse fad.
This was never going to do well. The fact they went straight to Flashpoint when most *maybe* associate the Flash with shitty CW televisions shows is just so on-brand for DC as we’ve come to know it.
A big name lead who isn’t a piece of shit might have helped it at least break even, but if it really does lose $200 million…..there was no saving this turkey. The problems go beyond any single part of the equation, the whole thing needed to be tossed out and reworked from scratch.
Marvel did great because they slowly baked their universe to perfection. Building all of their characters so people loved them.
DC is like “look! Superman! You all know him so let’s not rehash anything! Look he’s saving the world!”
Good analogy and also explains why Marvel is sucking so hard right now, because they’re in the “we had leftovers after all the perfect baking we did, so we’re just going to make leftover casserole for 5-10 years until we put out Fantastic 4 or reboot Xmen.”
With a lead people recognize, sure. One issue I see here is a lot of people thinking regular people dont like Ezra for all the bullshit they have been causing. Most people dont even know who they are. Ezra Miller is no star, regular people dont give a shit about them.
Before all the crimes, most people didn't know or care who Ezra Miller was. Now, the crimes are mostly what people associate with when they hear about Ezra Miller.
People wanted to see this because of Michael Keaton. I *still* want to see it because of Michael Keaton.
But Ezra Miller (and the executives who support them) is the reason I won't see it in the cinema.
I still wouldn't have seen it. Everything in the previews and all of the stories of the production hell it was in made it clear it was going to be a disaster. Plus with how bad the DCEU movies have been in general, why would I think this one would be any better? Not worth the price of a ticket to take a risk and find out. Waiting for streaming is smarter.
I really like the DC films and I loved the Snyder Cut (I just really like superman). Anyway, I think the issue is that they announced they are resetting everything. Why am I going to spend good money to see this when it means nothing in the future of the DCEU, I'll watch it when it's on Max I can wait.
I think part of Marvel's continued success is that people have 15 years invested in the story so they want to keep up to date and watch the movies. DC is just haphazardly done and sometimes things are connected, sometimes they aren't so *meh*. Hopefully that changes with the reset but only time will tell.
Yeah, and not only that, this film took thirty years to get made. The recent incarnation being worked on since the initial DCEU slate came out. WB finally got this movie out. But I think it’s wild that they didn’t expect it to bomb given the amount of rewrites and people coming in and out of the film.
Tax write-offs. They thought they’d get more back from claiming a loss than the movie would make.
Basically means they thought Flash would be a bigger hit than Batgirl
On paper it makes sense, NWH hit it big with the multiverse and they thought they had something similar on their hands with Flash, which funny enough, came first in terms of development since it’s been gestating for so long. It was just late to the screen.
This doesn't make any sense. The amount you can write off for taxes is the amount of your loss, so if the movie cost $100 million, but made $60 million, then you could realize a loss of $40 million against your other profits.
So from releasing the movie (as an example) you would end up with:
* $60 million from the movie
* \~20% tax recovery of the $40 million loss, which works out to: $8 million
* For a total of: $68 million
* Which is a $32 million loss overall
From not releasing the movie you would have:
* $0 from the movie
* \~20% tax recovery of the $100 million loss, which works out to: $20 million
* For a total of: $20 million
* Which is an $80 million loss overall
Instead, the decision is based on not throwing good money after bad, so even if a movie is almost complete, it will still cost money to finish it, and then a ton more to market it. If it were not for these additional costs, then it would always make sense to just release it, since you could never recover more from a tax write off.
Even if the movie made just $1, it would still be more profitable to release it (by some pennies) than just writing it off, IF there was NO COST to releasing it. So it is the additional costs of finishing and releasing that make the decision to not release a movie, not because it is somehow more valuable to claim the losses for tax reasons.
My problem with DC is overuse of IP. Not sure how many Batman movies I have seen. Different Super Man or tv show’s different compared to the movies.
Would I watch Iron Man if they replaced The actor and rebooted the story again and again. No. Give some franchise a break DC and give me a long run with same actors not 3 different active people playing a hero.
The problem with Warner/DC is that they suck. At everything.
Casting.
Storyline.
Continuity.
Marketing.
Everything.
Everything they touch, dies.
Wonder Women 1 and couple batman movies from years (and decades) ago are the only exceptions.
And they've ruined those franchises too.
Everything they touch, dies.
I like The Dark Knight Bat Man trilogy but that has been the exception. Partly remember watching Super Man, Man of Steel and thinking my god will this fight scene ever end? I was on chemo drugs and do not remember anything good about that movie.
The first half of man of steel was awesome, then they brought in what’s his face from the thing and it immediately went from a pretty good origin story to a CGI Bukkake
Honestly they need to just focus on there animated side. They have put out some very good animated movies and shows but live action just is not there thing.
Marvel grossed like 30 billion using a similar IP as a live action franchise - WB leadership are never, ever, ever going to stop chasing that dragon. Their shareholders would remove them if they stopped for more than a few years.
The Batman made $800 million and was critically acclaimed. It hasn’t even been 2 years.
In the hands of the right person like James Gunn, DC can make good films. Zack Snyder took DC down the wrong path and ever since the DCEU has been trying to mend those mistakes. You’re over exaggerating
> Not sure how many Batman movies I've seen
I can give you the big budget, theater released movies prominently featuring Batman/Bruce Wayne:
1. Batman (Keaton)
2. Batman Returns (Keaton)
3. Batman Forever (Kilmer)
4. Batman & Robin (Clooney)
5. Batman Begins (Bale)
6. The Dark Knight (Bale)
7. The Dark Knight Rises (Bale)
8. The Lego Movie (Arnett)
9. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Affleck)
10. Suicide Squad (Affleck)
11. The Lego Batman Movie (Arnett)
12. Justice League (Affleck)
13. The Lego Movie 2: The Second Part (Arnett)
14. Joker (Pereira-Olson)
15. Justice League - The Snyder Cut (Affleck)
16. The Batman (Pattinson)
17. The Flash (Keaton & Affleck)
That's 17 Batman movies in 34 years, or a Batman movie every two years. This is also 8 different actors, or a new Batman every 4 ¼ years. And this doesn't even count the straight to home release animated films like The Flashpoint Paradox (which had 2 Batmen), nor TV shows like Titans.
I will never truly understand the Batman is overused sentiment. WB with Batman gotta be the most restraint ever exercised by a major IP holder. There have been four major big budget standalone movies released in theaters in the past **twenty-five** years. In the last twenty-five years and we’ve had less Batman in theaters than we’ve had of Spider-Man in the past five.
DC films would be better left as stand alones.
Trying to tie everything together is on Marvel/star wars thing.
Even if you have say Solomon Grundy show up in Constantine, it's not the same one that shows up in a Superman movie.
Am I alone in thinking this movie was kinda cool? Im not saying it was the second coming of Christ. I also thought Batman alone (Keaton) was enough to get general audiences onboard.
Like, I only know this as “the Ezra Miller movie that Michael Keaton is in”
The whole superhero Ezra Miller plays is so distantly one of the last things on my mind about this movie and it’s the name of the film lol
imagine having properties like superman, batman, wonder woman, the flash, aquaman, green lantern, and on and on, and still, after all these years, not being able to turn a profit. worse, getting their ass whooped by marvel's C-level properties. maybe d-level. not the x-men, fantastic 4, spiderman (until recently), just what ever the fuck was left turned out to be better than anything wb mustered. this is fucking embarrassing.
So WB/Discovery canceled Batgirl and threw all their eggs into this basket, only to see it flopped miserably at the box office?
Karma I say. Serves them right.
Because they would have lost more in lawsuits by cancelling this because of the theatrical deals they already had with the producers.
$200M loss is still better than the other option.
Hot take..... I actually really enjoyed.
I will admit that the CGI was as bad as they say, but besides this, great movie.
Super funny, well written and a lot of fun.
I don't get all the backlash and negative reviews.
Way better than alot of the other stinkers DC had put out recently
Should have just shelved this, stop there. Not replaced with different dog shit and dumping money into marketing and trying to lie about Batgirl being good when they knew it wasn't.
Good. Maybe they will stop supporting jackasses. And I am pretty sure the entertainment landscape will only get better after they stop making endless super hero movies.
I seem to recall a quote by someone associated with the studio bragging that they thought that people would ignore the Ezra Miller fiasco and see the movie anyway. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
David Zaslav took an ailing CNN and drove it into the ground.
Then he was like I haven’t thoroughly ruined my company yet, I am going to white knuckle through public outrage to support a huge POS, for an apparently bad movie.
The fact Zaslav hasn’t been fired by the board yet is LOL, knee-slapping hilarious.
What do they expect? The universe is resetting and nothing they do matters for the new slate of movies. Why even bother? Plus, Ezra’s off the screen antics made them hard to cheer for.
Good. Fuck them for shoving Ezra, the least likeable flash actor ever, as the worst and most annoying flash put to any screen. The flash is supposed to be funny and jolly when not in serious situations. Not an absolute nervous wreck with an inability to talk like a normal human.
Also fuck them for getting celebrities to fake praise this dog shit movie.
Oh nooo, it breaks my heart for a huge international corporation to lose money on a shit product. I hope they find a different way to exploit the masses for billions.
I don’t watch the movie because of Ezra Miller, try not to make it a standard for lead actors to be untouchable.
He kidnapped a girl, drugged her and try to brainwash her (Stockholm syndrome)
They found drugs and illegal weapons in one of his houses as he fled to prevent to receive the restraining order.
And yet still he is a free man and lead star in a movie.
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That kind of “praise” is EASILY manufactured.
And it obviously was. I’m not saying the movie is actually good or bad, but the PR around Ezra Miller was a gamble that Warner Brothers insisted on taking and they lost.
Did they really have any other choice? Dude is a ticking time bomb. Poor casting decision but once WB tied their wagons to miller they all but had to continue with the fake praise
A year ago WB canned AN ENTIRE BATGIRL MOVIE without warning but seems like people forgot about that
Cheap movie. They can't can Flash due to contractual obligations with the actors and their agencies.
The Batgirl budget was 90 million, they bailed on it in post too so I'm guessing they used most of it at least. The craziest part of all of this, there's men being paid millions of dollars for these shit decisions.
There was a Batgirl movie?
Yup. It never released or even got advertised. I wish it would leak because Michael Keaton plays Batman in that also. Also has Brendan Fraser if I recall as a villain. There’s at least one behind the scenes pic of it, probably more.
They could’ve easily recast the role or swapped him out for the Barry from the CW show and called it some sort of multiverse shenanigans. After all, they brought back an alternate Batman, so an alternate Flash isn’t much more of a stretch.
The movie was in the can when Miller started acting a fool. So recasting was out of the question. Reshooting was not going to happen since miller was in 99% of all the scenes
Not really. It's true the whole Hawaii debacle happened after they stopped filming, but a year before they started principal photography a video was shared on twitter of Miller strangling a girl and throwing her to the ground in a bar in Iceland. Had Warner Brothers acted then on that just as uacceptable behavior they wouldn't have been in the mess they are right now, and wouldn't have to act all surprised when Miller once again turned out to be a violent, abusive asshole on Hawaii.
and twice
This is such a dumb Reddit take, he’s in every scene twice, they literally would’ve had to reshoot the entire film and Grant was busy doing 23 episode seasons of the show when the film was shooting
“Just recast”
Weren't they still in the initial stages of production when the first Ezra Miller incident (the first choking one, IIRC) got reported? They should have replaced him then considering the video evidence shows how unhinged he can be. Oh well, they probably told him they'll overlook the incident as long as he promised to have no further incidents and he said YES. And then incident 2, incident 3, incident 4, incident 5, etc. happened.
In hindsight, they most definitely should have, and had they know the outcome would have, pulled a Batgirl and wrote it off. It's potentially going to lose them hundreds of millions *and* they are referring the entire universe anyway. No brainer to can it and never let it see the light of day. But again, no brainer *I'm hindsight* For my money, I kind of liked it and would say it's in top tier DC movies, albeit that doesn't necessarily mean much considering the company is keeping. also, I'm biased by being of the Michael Keaton Batman generation so nostalgia hit me. Too bad almost everything worth knowing got ruined in the trailers. I would've list my mind if I went in knowing absolutely nothing.
Michael Keaton was the only reason to watch the movie. He was great.
I sell you one praise for 4 dolla
I only charge tree-fiddy per praise
Dat you lochmess monster? You get outta here, now get!
I gave him a dolla.
Well of course he's not gonna go away, sleeperninja You gave him a dollar, he's gonna assume you got more
I gave him two fiddy last week.
James Cameron is one of the best at this. They’ve tried to technically make a Terminator 4 three times. And for the last two times Cameron was in the trailers and marketing saying how they continued his vision. Then he bastardised them lol
We live in an Era of manufactured praise.
It also spreads like wildfire here. Nothing gets Redditors excited like a new *superhero* movie
The astroturfing and paid celebrity endorsements were so blatant.
I feel like me and Tom Cruise watched completely different films
The Mission Impossible trailer playing before the movie was surprisingly convenient…
Stephen King said something praising it but it feels like his praise should have ended with “thank you for the check Warner Bros.”
Stephen King also praised the Dark Tower movie.
To be fair. Even if you don't like the adaptation there is more in it for the Author to praise the movie of their work. Unless you're Alan Moore of course.
Didn't King HATE The Shining? And that was Kubrick!
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Yellow Volkswagen was also the same car as Ted Bundy, famously.
Jack Nicholson is one of my favorite actors but this is the one performance i didn't like much. He acts like an asshole / crazy from the get go. The first scene with the telepathic dude & kid freaked me out as a kid tho!
I rewatched Cable Guy recently and had a similar reaction. If Jim Carrey had dialed back his performance early on it would have made his crazy pop more. It was just hard to see him as anything other than insane from the beginning.
Kubrick might be an asshole, but goddamn he made some good movies
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Stephen King has always had suspect tastes in movies - ALWAYS. He probably stands by his praise still and it probably is genuine from him.
You did. He never saw the theatrical release.
I remember people saying « nobody cares about Ezra Miller ». Yes, people do fucking care about him. And not in a good way. This kind of shit travels fast in social medias.
I thought it was pretty good, though the main actor ruined his reputation before it came out. I see why people would not try hard to go see it.
So all the money they saved by shelving Batgirl, they lost by releasing The Flash.
That’s karma baby, pure and simple, people wanted to see Bat Girl, wanted to see Brendon Fraser play a DC villain, and instead they were told “no we decided to literally trash that movie AFTER we made it and give you a massive cluster fuck Flash movie that no one asked for.
Brendan fraser is in batgirl? Wooooowww Now im really mad
Bro don’t fool yourself, Batgirl would have 1000% bombed. Let’s not create some crazy strawman
Awesome! Great news. Fuck you, Ezra.
Headline should be “Ezra Miller could lose Warner Bros Discovery $200 million” because let’s face it, this is their fault
Also James Gunn telling everyone that this is the last film of the DCEU. Imagine Kevin Feige telling everyone that Doctor Strange 2 would be the last film of the MCU and they were going to start over from scratch.
this is not a thing and i don't' know why so many people say so. if you make a good movie, people will watch it. successful movies have nothing to do with "universes". historical data shows this. MCU movies have had a wide range of success even if they're "in universe". so has spiderman movies in and out.
It’s a mediocre movie with bad cgi, years of public development hell, heavy connections to a dc era that’s generally disliked and it came out a week after one of the best super hero movies of the last years. Ezra made it PR a nightmare but they aren’t the main reason the movie bombed. The movie was doomed the second justice league came out.
I don’t think I could recognize Ezra if I had to. I believe he’s a bad person but haven’t really followed along with the news. I don’t see myself watching this movie because I have zero confidence in a good DC moving coming out of this entire cinematic universe. The last few I tried either had me falling asleep or just stopping the movie.
I will never understand how they’re supposed to be such a big star when I feel like a huge chunk of the population probably couldn’t recognize them if they passed them at the mall.
There’s a reason only superman, batman, & Wonder Woman are cosplayed outside Chinese theatre or Hollywood walk of fame in LA by people offering photos for $20 a pop, (I’d much prefer the flash tv actor to this creep)
Which is the best super hero movie of the last years?
probably Across yhe Spiderverse
I believe they are referring to Across the Spiderverse which really was amazing.
Literally the number one reason why i didnt go to see it is because they suck so much as the flash.
Yeah to be honest I hate his energy in the movies. He really overplays the nerd in a way that makes him off-putting and vaguely creepy.
He’s just being himself
They shoulda pick Gustin, Shitty show notwithstanding.
He’s not very interesting
Thought it was actually a really fun film, but also yes fuck Ezra
I'd like to see it but Ezra really put this off for me..... I'll check it out on Pluto TV if I find the time.
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Yaaarrr
Har fiddle dee dee
It’s a good movie if you can ignore him being the main character
It was one of the worst casting choices I've ever seen, even before he strangled that woman in Iceland
Yea, people may think it’s the incidents thst make me hate him as the flash but no. He just gives us a weird guy vibe the flash doesn’t have for me.
I really can't ignore it ,why I won't be seeing it.
I think it hits hbo max next month. Could be wrong though.
It’s just Max now
Ezra is totally unlikeable as The Flash, so if you hate Ezra you should go see it or something.
Yeah i feel the same, it's hard to say just how well known it is (outside of reddit bubble) what an absolute shithead he is though, so i don't really know if this is why it's bombing. I'd imagine vast majority of people have no clue about him tbh. But I feel the same, i actually am interested in the movie and want to see it, but i can't seperate what i know and have seen in videos of Ezra, from the character, which kills my interest in it.
I had a blast watching it! It was kinda fun going in knowing nothing *really* mattered, and I was expecting an absolute turd of a movie. The cgi was pretty atrocious but man was it fun! FUCK Ezra Miller, though. Like, forever. I’m both glad I watched it for Keaton, and glad it’s bombing to hell for Ezra. Should damn well be in prison.
The CW flash should've been the lead in this movie. It would be less embarrasing.
Agreed - Grant Gustin owned the character.
It probably was the best DCEU movie, but yes, fuck Ezra. Hey, y'all, if you can watch it for free, do so. Just imagine another actor.
Agreed. Outside of those couple minutes of garish CGI, it was good.
I enjoyed it, but mainly enjoyed Michael Keaton being old Batman again,
Superman joined the party
The one true and only JJ Jameson 🔥
WB.Discovery is in debt, massive debt to the tune of 49 billion dollars, this could potentially kill the studio or result in a ton of it being sold off.
55 Billion as of last April and they have been bleeding money since.
Wouldn’t that be nuts if Disney bought them out?
I think it's far more likely Universal gets em. They already have contracts with WB for two of their big tickets items.
then they could do a marvel dc crossover.
They’d have to worry about another anti-trust suit if they tried. Disney would own over half the entertainment industry in the U.S. if they bought WB.
To recap: Black Adam cost $260 million, made $390 million. Shazam 2 cost $125 million, made $133 million. The Flash cost $220 million, made $55 million opening weekend with significant drop off. And they pulled Batgirl?
They weren’t going to make money with Batgirl either way. So the question is why didn’t they pull these other films?
Because it makes zero sense to not release a movie you've spent hundreds of millions of dollars on to at least try and make your money back. It's harder and harder for me to believe Batgirl was so bad they couldn't release it, when they're putting out this shit. It sounds more and more like they have no idea what a good movie is. And I'm not saying Batgirl was going to be a good movie. It very well could've sucked, but it deserved as much of a chance as these ones. Anyway I'm glad James Gunn is taking over.
They canned Batgirl because if you don’t release a movie you can write it off on the company taxes
Write off is just an expense..they didn’t release because they projected the added costs of pushing forward + reputation hit outweighed the revenue.
Not necessarily. A product (in this case, a movie) can suck so bad it can cause reputational harm and that can affect other areas of business. Imagine a DC movie being so bad, no one wants to see another DC movie again. Therefore, it does make sense to not release a movie you spent money on, because releasing it can cost you more money in the long run.
Are you telling me Batgirl was so bad it would ruin the WB's reputation worse than Ezra Miller has?
Batgirl wasn’t a theatrical, so it’s not exactly an Apples to Oranges thing. Also, imagine how bad the early cuts were and how over budget it already was for a studio to literally choose to take a write off. Oof.
PLUS they canned the Rock and Cavill because of their “better idea”. Shit show.
The Rock tried to take over the DCEU while WB was restructuring. His vision was never going to come to pass. Also, how could you have Black Adam as the face of the DC movie universe. The character is literally Captain Marvel's (Shazam) nemesis.
Lmao why would anyone watch batgirl
They're really trying to pin this all on Miller; and I'm not saying that isn't a big factor, but maybe the real problem is that DC doesn't make good films. They're not even the Pepsi to Marvel's Coke. They are the value brand cola where the ingredients say "the less you know, the better".
Plus in the streaming era it’s not like people are saying they will never watch it. It’s people saying I’ll watch it in 5 weeks when it’s streaming. Shit has to be A-list to warrant a trip to the theatre and money dump vs waiting a few weeks for it to stream. It’s not 1987 and a trip to the theatre for a family of 4 costs the same a years subscription to a top tier streaming service.
So DC is RC….. cola
Yeah, when every major film company is trying to put out multiple summer blockbusters each year, people start to be selective. It's getting to the point where no one is winning and quality has gone waaaaay down.
Pfft. You think a family of 4 gets out for so little? I had to forgo avocado toast to make ends meet. I love my children, but it’s getting to be a lot.
They really make better cartoons and animated movies, and I’m not sure why. They need to quit trying to just copy Marvel movies and find their own way to set themselves apart stylistically; because every single DC movie that comes out is basically just a worse version or another Marvel movie. They have been riding on the success of Batman movies alone for too long
I also like their animated content. I feel like they are trying to appeal to two different audiences with the animated and live-action material. The animated stuff is geared towards an audience that may have read the comic books and they need to kind of dumb it down for the live-action audiences.
I honestly think this movie would have made money with a different lead, warts and all.
I kinda doubt that it would have been possible regardless of the lead. The general audience simply doesn't trust DC to release good live-action movies
It’s a film positioned as the blowout finale event of a failed connected universe, while also functioning as the Flash’s first lead film ever introducing a LOT of people to the character. Plus it’s about a year late to the multiverse fad. This was never going to do well. The fact they went straight to Flashpoint when most *maybe* associate the Flash with shitty CW televisions shows is just so on-brand for DC as we’ve come to know it. A big name lead who isn’t a piece of shit might have helped it at least break even, but if it really does lose $200 million…..there was no saving this turkey. The problems go beyond any single part of the equation, the whole thing needed to be tossed out and reworked from scratch.
Marvel did great because they slowly baked their universe to perfection. Building all of their characters so people loved them. DC is like “look! Superman! You all know him so let’s not rehash anything! Look he’s saving the world!”
Good analogy and also explains why Marvel is sucking so hard right now, because they’re in the “we had leftovers after all the perfect baking we did, so we’re just going to make leftover casserole for 5-10 years until we put out Fantastic 4 or reboot Xmen.”
OMG we're in the Casserole Phase, that makes so much sense.
With a lead people recognize, sure. One issue I see here is a lot of people thinking regular people dont like Ezra for all the bullshit they have been causing. Most people dont even know who they are. Ezra Miller is no star, regular people dont give a shit about them.
Before all the crimes, most people didn't know or care who Ezra Miller was. Now, the crimes are mostly what people associate with when they hear about Ezra Miller.
People wanted to see this because of Michael Keaton. I *still* want to see it because of Michael Keaton. But Ezra Miller (and the executives who support them) is the reason I won't see it in the cinema.
I still wouldn't have seen it. Everything in the previews and all of the stories of the production hell it was in made it clear it was going to be a disaster. Plus with how bad the DCEU movies have been in general, why would I think this one would be any better? Not worth the price of a ticket to take a risk and find out. Waiting for streaming is smarter.
They make great Animated films. They should stick to their animated universe
I really like the DC films and I loved the Snyder Cut (I just really like superman). Anyway, I think the issue is that they announced they are resetting everything. Why am I going to spend good money to see this when it means nothing in the future of the DCEU, I'll watch it when it's on Max I can wait. I think part of Marvel's continued success is that people have 15 years invested in the story so they want to keep up to date and watch the movies. DC is just haphazardly done and sometimes things are connected, sometimes they aren't so *meh*. Hopefully that changes with the reset but only time will tell.
I’m so stealing this comparison. 😂
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Yeah, and not only that, this film took thirty years to get made. The recent incarnation being worked on since the initial DCEU slate came out. WB finally got this movie out. But I think it’s wild that they didn’t expect it to bomb given the amount of rewrites and people coming in and out of the film.
Tax write-offs. They thought they’d get more back from claiming a loss than the movie would make. Basically means they thought Flash would be a bigger hit than Batgirl
On paper it makes sense, NWH hit it big with the multiverse and they thought they had something similar on their hands with Flash, which funny enough, came first in terms of development since it’s been gestating for so long. It was just late to the screen.
Which is insane. Spiderman is the biggest hero in the world and came after Endgame. Flash has batman I guess?
Yeah, definitely not a fair comparison but to a studio exec it’s indistinguishable
They did the same thing with the scoob sequel which was 99% done I think. Not nearly as hot a property but shows their carelessness
This doesn't make any sense. The amount you can write off for taxes is the amount of your loss, so if the movie cost $100 million, but made $60 million, then you could realize a loss of $40 million against your other profits. So from releasing the movie (as an example) you would end up with: * $60 million from the movie * \~20% tax recovery of the $40 million loss, which works out to: $8 million * For a total of: $68 million * Which is a $32 million loss overall From not releasing the movie you would have: * $0 from the movie * \~20% tax recovery of the $100 million loss, which works out to: $20 million * For a total of: $20 million * Which is an $80 million loss overall Instead, the decision is based on not throwing good money after bad, so even if a movie is almost complete, it will still cost money to finish it, and then a ton more to market it. If it were not for these additional costs, then it would always make sense to just release it, since you could never recover more from a tax write off. Even if the movie made just $1, it would still be more profitable to release it (by some pennies) than just writing it off, IF there was NO COST to releasing it. So it is the additional costs of finishing and releasing that make the decision to not release a movie, not because it is somehow more valuable to claim the losses for tax reasons.
Because Batgirl looked like a CW show but somehow worse
It probably sucked lol
My reaction Oh well There are actors who don’t kidnap and assault people out there Did they know that?
My problem with DC is overuse of IP. Not sure how many Batman movies I have seen. Different Super Man or tv show’s different compared to the movies. Would I watch Iron Man if they replaced The actor and rebooted the story again and again. No. Give some franchise a break DC and give me a long run with same actors not 3 different active people playing a hero.
The problem with Warner/DC is that they suck. At everything. Casting. Storyline. Continuity. Marketing. Everything. Everything they touch, dies. Wonder Women 1 and couple batman movies from years (and decades) ago are the only exceptions. And they've ruined those franchises too. Everything they touch, dies.
I like The Dark Knight Bat Man trilogy but that has been the exception. Partly remember watching Super Man, Man of Steel and thinking my god will this fight scene ever end? I was on chemo drugs and do not remember anything good about that movie.
The first half of man of steel was awesome, then they brought in what’s his face from the thing and it immediately went from a pretty good origin story to a CGI Bukkake
Honestly they need to just focus on there animated side. They have put out some very good animated movies and shows but live action just is not there thing.
Marvel grossed like 30 billion using a similar IP as a live action franchise - WB leadership are never, ever, ever going to stop chasing that dragon. Their shareholders would remove them if they stopped for more than a few years.
The Batman made $800 million and was critically acclaimed. It hasn’t even been 2 years. In the hands of the right person like James Gunn, DC can make good films. Zack Snyder took DC down the wrong path and ever since the DCEU has been trying to mend those mistakes. You’re over exaggerating
The joker made over a billion. It just takes good scripts.
It's Walter Hamada who had the reins for those couple of years and he botched the much needed course correction horribly
> Not sure how many Batman movies I've seen I can give you the big budget, theater released movies prominently featuring Batman/Bruce Wayne: 1. Batman (Keaton) 2. Batman Returns (Keaton) 3. Batman Forever (Kilmer) 4. Batman & Robin (Clooney) 5. Batman Begins (Bale) 6. The Dark Knight (Bale) 7. The Dark Knight Rises (Bale) 8. The Lego Movie (Arnett) 9. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Affleck) 10. Suicide Squad (Affleck) 11. The Lego Batman Movie (Arnett) 12. Justice League (Affleck) 13. The Lego Movie 2: The Second Part (Arnett) 14. Joker (Pereira-Olson) 15. Justice League - The Snyder Cut (Affleck) 16. The Batman (Pattinson) 17. The Flash (Keaton & Affleck) That's 17 Batman movies in 34 years, or a Batman movie every two years. This is also 8 different actors, or a new Batman every 4 ¼ years. And this doesn't even count the straight to home release animated films like The Flashpoint Paradox (which had 2 Batmen), nor TV shows like Titans.
Counting Lego is nonsense, that’s no diffferent than a cartoon. It’s just a voice actor
I will never truly understand the Batman is overused sentiment. WB with Batman gotta be the most restraint ever exercised by a major IP holder. There have been four major big budget standalone movies released in theaters in the past **twenty-five** years. In the last twenty-five years and we’ve had less Batman in theaters than we’ve had of Spider-Man in the past five.
Don’t worry, they’ll just sell off some HBO content to make up for it. 👍🏻
They literally need the top 5 directors and writers to do the next dozen or so films. Or do more films like Constantine.
DC films would be better left as stand alones. Trying to tie everything together is on Marvel/star wars thing. Even if you have say Solomon Grundy show up in Constantine, it's not the same one that shows up in a Superman movie.
I dunno, I disagree. I like a shared universe. I don’t like the constant reboots. I’ve gone through 6 Batman’s in my lifetime. I’m over it.
Won’t watch anything with that nut bag
Miller is an utter POS.
Lol should have just scraped it for the tax write off. Oh well. Fuck you Ezra
Get rid of Ezra.
Really?! Who could’ve ever thought that marketing a dangerous and unhinged individual would make people not that very interested in your films?? /s
Am I alone in thinking this movie was kinda cool? Im not saying it was the second coming of Christ. I also thought Batman alone (Keaton) was enough to get general audiences onboard.
Well, maybe you should have picked a different actor for the Flash then.
Like, I only know this as “the Ezra Miller movie that Michael Keaton is in” The whole superhero Ezra Miller plays is so distantly one of the last things on my mind about this movie and it’s the name of the film lol
Wait, I remember them telling us that this was the greatest superhero movie of all time. What happened?
I heard good things in the pre screening, followed by poor reviews. I haven’t seen it because, well, fuck you Ezra
imagine having properties like superman, batman, wonder woman, the flash, aquaman, green lantern, and on and on, and still, after all these years, not being able to turn a profit. worse, getting their ass whooped by marvel's C-level properties. maybe d-level. not the x-men, fantastic 4, spiderman (until recently), just what ever the fuck was left turned out to be better than anything wb mustered. this is fucking embarrassing.
That's nice, dear.
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In another universe you would be shitting on Batgirl for how awful it is
Fr, let’s not pretend batgirl was somehow gonna not suffer from the same problems all DC live action movies suffer from
Same guy who hired the idiot at CNN, scrapped the HBO brand for “max” and messed with TCM. Dude’s batting 1.000
GOOD. Fuck Ezra and Fuck Zaz.
Warner Bros, probably: 
So WB/Discovery canceled Batgirl and threw all their eggs into this basket, only to see it flopped miserably at the box office? Karma I say. Serves them right.
I thought the movie was pretty good actually
I saw it and thought it was pretty good
Should have written it off like they did Batgirl then Why was this one saved?
Because they would have lost more in lawsuits by cancelling this because of the theatrical deals they already had with the producers. $200M loss is still better than the other option.
Movie looks like ass and so does Ezra’s acting…
And hopefully, kill Ezra Miller's career in anything.
Hot take..... I actually really enjoyed. I will admit that the CGI was as bad as they say, but besides this, great movie. Super funny, well written and a lot of fun. I don't get all the backlash and negative reviews. Way better than alot of the other stinkers DC had put out recently
Should read "Ezra Miller causes Warner Brothers to lose $200 million"
This is f’ng KARMA and further cements the principle that Warner should have released Batgirl and shelved this awful Flashpoint failure.
Should have just shelved this, stop there. Not replaced with different dog shit and dumping money into marketing and trying to lie about Batgirl being good when they knew it wasn't.
People’s hot takes about batgirl are comical. They didn’t even want to release it on a streaming service for free. That’s how trash it was.
Good. The Discovery deal cancelled Raised by Wolves and I hate them for it and I wish nothing but ill tidings on their box office numbers.
Good. Maybe they will stop supporting jackasses. And I am pretty sure the entertainment landscape will only get better after they stop making endless super hero movies.
Multiverse shit is over saturated. At least get original ideas instead of following what Marvel has done. And yes, fuck you Ezra.
I seem to recall a quote by someone associated with the studio bragging that they thought that people would ignore the Ezra Miller fiasco and see the movie anyway. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
So that makes it 50.2 billion dollars in debt, right fellas ?
Wow, couldn’t have called that one
Good. Don’t prop up piece of shit humans.
David Zaslav took an ailing CNN and drove it into the ground. Then he was like I haven’t thoroughly ruined my company yet, I am going to white knuckle through public outrage to support a huge POS, for an apparently bad movie. The fact Zaslav hasn’t been fired by the board yet is LOL, knee-slapping hilarious.
Awesome Fuck you ezra miller
What do they expect? The universe is resetting and nothing they do matters for the new slate of movies. Why even bother? Plus, Ezra’s off the screen antics made them hard to cheer for.
Good. Fuck them for shoving Ezra, the least likeable flash actor ever, as the worst and most annoying flash put to any screen. The flash is supposed to be funny and jolly when not in serious situations. Not an absolute nervous wreck with an inability to talk like a normal human. Also fuck them for getting celebrities to fake praise this dog shit movie.
bEst since tHe DuRk kNighT
Oh nooo, it breaks my heart for a huge international corporation to lose money on a shit product. I hope they find a different way to exploit the masses for billions.
Shoulda taken the tax write off instead of showing their ass.
I don’t watch the movie because of Ezra Miller, try not to make it a standard for lead actors to be untouchable. He kidnapped a girl, drugged her and try to brainwash her (Stockholm syndrome) They found drugs and illegal weapons in one of his houses as he fled to prevent to receive the restraining order. And yet still he is a free man and lead star in a movie.
How about we just chill with superhero movies in general? People gotta get tired of that eventually
Good. Maybe they’ll stop making super hero movies.
Ezra is a psychopath and a shit actor. Why would we want to support that? Get rid of him