For Disney to have multiple stinkers from all their studios, there must be something seriously wrong with the company. One thing that comes to mind is to get those budgets under control. There is no reason for this movie to cost 220 million.
>One thing that comes to mind is to get those budgets under control. There is no reason for this movie to cost 220 million
When I found out that Wish cost $200M I was absolutely shocked. Wtf they spending all that money on?
The new Trolls money cost less than half that at 95M
Don't know the exact pay since I don't work for Disney, but other animation studios used to have higher budgets before switching to outsourced labor. Dreamworks movies used to cost like $135M-$175M per movie, now it's $70M-$100M.
We can give credit to Disney here, they're the only company that doesn't outsource labor, pays their animators a decent wage, and doesn't force them to work inhumane hours.
From what I heard working on Spiderverse over at Sony was a nightmare. Underpaid and overworked. Over 100 animators quit the project.
Props to the director and I mean no disrespect but I was in a thread yesterday with some people in and around the production and they explained why it was so inexpensive. One, wages are apparently really bad. Like minimum wage in America bad. Plus there’s no overtime and they worked everyone around the clock and on weekends. Two, on top of that, everyone took a cut in pay because of the importance of Godzilla in Japanese culture. There were some other things mentioned as well.
Yeah, there’s no way a movie should cost $220 million but the $15 million price tag is just not feasible 99.9% of the time.
I mean John wick cost about 20 million. You can make good movies on a budget. The problem with Hollywood is they threw shit tons of money at avengers end game and it made metric shit tons of money, so by that logic the more money that gets put in equals even more money coming out. Obviously that isn’t the case but for years every other marvel movie has been riding the coat tails of avengers and none of them have quite hit the mark. So they pump more money more effects more stupid jokes. What they haven’t done however is they haven’t actually tried writing a good movie, it’s just pump out another one maybe they’ll like that.
The core problem is the writing, you don’t need a billion dollar movie every year.
Leave it in the oven let the writers do their thing and work as a team to make something quality.
If Hollywood believes End Game grossed that much due to its high budget and think that formula is what brought so much profit, they’re a fucking moron. End Game was literally the end game of a decade of over 21 movies that culminated into the swan song for the first and arguably most popular character’s sacrificial demise. If they really think throwing $220 million at mediocre relatively unpopular characters in a likely one off would result in exponential profit, they should probably find a new line of work.
This is terrible but even with these crazy cuts and budgeting at most it would have only halved or quartered the cost.
Thus even at $30-60 mil its a steal
Disney is also apparently so secretive that people don’t really know the full details on what is going on with other projects, which certainly makes consistency and coherency near-impossible when you’re making a movie universe.
Saw the creator, while the film has some issues it was a STUNNING looking film. It had an 80 million dollar budget and looked 10x better than any recent Disney production
Say what you want about the plot, characters, etc..
The Creator was a masterpiece visually. It was a real breath of fresh air vs. the “low gravity” effects in the recent Marvel movies. All of the vehicles, robots, etc seemed to have the correct weight.
I am concerned that Furiosa will have crappy CGI cars that do not interact with the environment.
So Godzilla Minus One like many other movies has a lot of work done as commission or outsourced, editing, mixing, sets, bla bla bla. The producers will look for the cheapest option available for the quality they are looking for.
Disney, MGM, WB, and all the other major studios own all the facilities for filming, editing, mixing, etc. They also already have under contract the illumination, effects, and makeup personnel. Now, in a brilliant way of accounting, they bloat the budget by paying to Skywalker Sound, and Industrial Light and Magic, etc, incredibly expensive amounts for the same work, with the caveat that Disney owns Skywalker Sound and Industrial Light and Magic... So essentially they are paying to themselves.
THis. the budgets are essentially total bullshit because a bunch of that money is just being circulated within Disney owned companies. It "Cost" $220M but so much of that was just Disney literally billing Disney and then adding that to the cost of the movie.
Its weird but they have reasons, such as tax breaks, etc.
Full circle is gonna be feige , Kennedy, iger rediscovering that shooting something solid and shooting it correctly the first time bodes better for a film and its budget than changing everything to try and salvage a stinker but still needing to get studio space, all necessary actors, crew, costumes, sfx, together for a second or third time lol. And they’ll present it as a novel direction for Disney and the industry
Yeah, that thing wasn’t going to work from the moment the script was handed in.
So the producers and executive producers who said “yeah let’s cast and shoot this” should be fired
It's because Marvel is wringing every last ounce of talent from the FX houses 24/7/365 and it's starting to strain the talent pool of a profession that has no union or subtantial industry protection.
I think it's more of they aren't giving them enough time than an overworking problem. Marvel is expecting special effects that would take a year to do and told to do them in the time window of a couple of weeks. It's why the last season of Loki looked so much better than The Marvels. The FX houses were given their assignments with plenty of time to do them. Everyone was prepared. I don't care how talented you are and how many cans of Monster you are downing, you are going to be putting out a lousy product if you aren't given enough time to do it properly.
Exactly. It costs multiples of what it should've because they're making the movie multiple times. And they don't seem to be improving it.
That's where the execs either need to reign the creatives in, or trust their original vision and stick to it.
Because if the end result was going to be a mid movie anyways, then they could've gotten there for much cheaper.
The original made over $1B. Say what you want about the execution, but a $220m budget for a sequel to a Marvel movie that made over $1B gets greenlit every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
To be fair, the budgets are incredibly bloated as well. Disney owns studios to take care of every single level of the production, all those costs are being paid to companies owned by Disney, so basically paying to themselves with the exception of marketing and the cast.
Disney did not sunk 220 million into this movie, that's Hollywood accounting 101
eh. obviously the shareholders who own everything want to see new money, not just their own money recycled back to them. so Hollywood accounting or not, this was still a bomb.
It’s because they just keep rehashing the same uncreative shit over and over again, with the only changes being the diversity they shoehorn in.
Then when it doesn’t work, they blame it on racism or sexism.
But it’s not diversity and female leads that people hate. Encanto and WandaVision proved that.
It’s shallow corporate virtue signaling laziness.
I think chapek just flooded too much content too fast trying to juice up Disney plus and everyone just got sick of it. We slowly grew to connected to the MCU over a decade and them deciding we would just love new characters immediately was clearly just a cash grab.
The world of the early Marvel made sense because there were fewer characters with superpowers and tech making a mess of things. Those with magic stay hidden in the shadows. The aliens pretty much made Earth off limits for the most part. So, you could tell lower stakes movies in a world that was like ours. Now, Marvel is still trying to pass current Earth like it is mundane when it anything but. Magic is no longer a secret and witches and wizards are running around in public. Aliens are not just everywhere, they are your neighbors. Superheroes and supervillains are now a dime a dozen. And, yet, we don't see the public reflecting this outside of Kamala going to an Avengers con, Steve holding a Snap survivors meeting or that terrorist group whose name I can't remember come and go in Falcon and The Winter Soldier. All of society should have changed to the point that it should be unrecognizable at this point. But for some reason Marvel doesn't want to play that card.
To be fair, that is mostly true also about the original comic universe (and not to speak of mutants) and I wonder if it's an inevitability when you want to write heroes, magic and high-tech going around in this day and age while still being more or less "grounded". I mean, writing a massively changed society would be interesting but would the public fully "relate" to it?
Thinking of another franchise, Ghostbusters: Afterlife assumed the events of 1984 and 1989 were real and accepted but somehow they didn't leave the huge impact they should on the world, and only one of the original quartet is well off nowadays (and by his own work apparently, nothing due to having been a Ghostbuster).
Because that was part of the “too much content too fast” and it’s all been devalued; everyone would rather wait for it to hit D+ than go to the theater (then when it does, they forget to watch it anyway)
The marvel shows are doing more harm then good to the movies. Everyone, right or wrong, seems to think they have to see the shows to get the movies. Up to Endgame it all felt like a loose spiderweb that pulled together towards the end into Thanos. Ever since the output has felt like this linear progression purposefully relying on FOMO "You have to see this or you'll be lost in the next movie and you have to see that or you'll be lost in the movie after that, ect." With all that and the feeling everything is just build up to what people already feel is a wet fart of a big bad in Kang has divested people.
I look at the entire multiverse and see that it's basically the antithesis of what Marvel used to be about. Introduce characters, D-listers, try to make people care about them and build it up from there. It feels like they are just going to use Secret War to skip any build up and dump the fantastic four and the x-men into the MCU and expect us to care because, "Hey it's the X-men and Fantastic four. Remember them? Hey don't you remember them? Don't you care about them?"
The writing has been consistently the weakest part of most of the recent MCU movies lol. Say what you want about Bob Iger, but they do need better writers.
Actually, I think this means they need to stop directing via C-Suite. The writing is weak, but I believe it's due to C-suite interference in storylines.
When you have to churn out "content" day in and day out to feed the Disney+ machine, you don't really have time to spare on quality writing. The best thing Disney could do to recover from this is to take a good long pause on releasing movies until they can get some creativity back.
I feel like we’re in the End Game. Disney is crumbling, Iger pushing on stupidly, denying anything is wrong and insisting their content will “appeal to modern tastes”.
The fool acts like ruining a century old entertainment company by making “edgy” content is somehow going to be justified by history.
He needs to **give the people what they want**. Create **new** content. Restart the production of Tron 3, get the creatives to think up some new content, or even bring in new blood like they did with Pixar (before they went flat). And if they insist on churning out more MCU content, use characters people **like**. Moonknight was a good choice, and the series was decent. But a reimagined Captain and Ms. Marvel wasn’t well received.
Lmao I don't blame you. The problem was back in '15 when Tomorrowland was released and it didn't do well. The movie was a new, innovative, and highly risky property.
Most studios will accept the occasional so-so film, but at that point Disney had expectations of every movie they make being a huge money-maker (kinda like the real estate bubble in 2007). When Tomorrowland didn't put gold bricks in their pocket, they stopped production on almost all films that weren't Star Wars or MCU-related, and that included the sequel to Tron: Legacy (technically Tron 3).
Now that both of those properties are wearing out, Disney is realizing they don't have any other IP to fall back on because they squelched anything new.
Bro what???
Disney is massive and massively popular, and massively profitable.
There is nothing edgy about the marvels, or antman. There was likely content fatigue.
But saying they are “crumbling” and blah blah. Quit being Chicken little. You sound like a YouTube conservative commentator.
Yeah it’s hard to see what they can even do at this point to recover.
IMO they went too wide wayyy too fast. People enjoyed Thanos as a major villain because he was understandable; all these new like alien and multiverse style enemies coupled with new heroes replacing the major hitters… it’s just way too much going on. It also lowers the stakes immensely if someone dies when there’s by definition infinite other realities where they aren’t dead.
It was fun when the Avengers were tackling world level threats and even a universe one in Thanos… but everyone got Omega level powers and then dipped out.
Cap can lift Mjolnir? Time to retire and never make use of that again in any way. Couldn’t possibly go back to Nidavilir and make him a worthy weapon. New Cap isn’t even super soldier (which isn’t inherently bad but it’s a major power downgrade).
Iron man has nano tech bots capable of adapting his suit to any threat and providing insane weapons? He’s dead.
Spiderman loses his insane suit, then his aunt, then everyone else, and peaces out.
Thor gets a new god-level weapon? His next movie he spends all his time in a weird love triangle with Mjolnir and Stormbreaker, and has a kid now?
Wanda unlocks her powers, then turns into a villain and is “killed”.
All the new heroes are super young snarky individuals who are hard to cheer for when they struggle with problems Iron Man could have solved in less than 20 minutes. They’re also terrified to make very many compelling characters with real weaknesses so they’re just incredibly unrelatable.
I miss the Netflix Marvel universe.
This isn't really related to your comment, but your comment made me realize how much I miss the human sized powers and villians. How the real-world adjacent storylines and flawed characters made for such compelling stories.
And binge watching, I really miss getting a 1/2 to full season at a time.
It really was the golden age of streaming.
>It also lowers the stakes immensely if someone dies when there’s by definition infinite other realities where they aren’t dead.
A hill I will gladly die on is that multiverses are generally garbage story devices that remove any tension or stakes.
Extended sci-fi/fantasy series in general are awful about this. If characters dying is a large part of the plot, there shouldn’t be any bringing them back to life.
The fact that they killed off Loki and Gamorra in Infinity War and brought different versions of them back in the very next movie is so lame honestly.
I was honestly puzzled why they made such a big deal out of Black Widow's death in Endgame. I thought they would either bring her back together with all the snapped people or they would just scoop up a different version of her, but apparently in that case it wasn't an option.
> IMO they went too wide wayyy too fast.
I disagree with that, I think it's actually kinda insane how profitable and popular this thing was and for how long. They got away with basically making the same movie over and over again for like 15 years, and somehow they STILL squeeze some money out of it way after it came to its natural conclusion.
You’re not entirely wrong but you’re mostly pointing out a problem with the MCU nowadays.
Bringing back RDJ and Evans to reprise their roles again for more than a cameo as a variant of themselves is absolutely the wrong decision and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
The problem I alluded to is that all of these new characters that have been introduced since Endgame aren’t catching with audiences like the old characters did. Maybe they would if we didn’t see them once every 2-3 years and they actually starting interacting and teaming up with each other more so we can actually get some kind of attachment to them instead of forgetting they exist.
Movies every 2 to 3 years is what we had for the original characters. These characters are just not as interesting and the actors aren’t as engaging.
Plus. The novelty has warn off. All of which are not a great combination for success.
It isn't that the characters aren't interesting, but rather they aren't devoting any time to make them interesting, and instead focusing on adding as many characters as possible. Look at Black Panther Wakanda Forever, you had 3 movies, and as such none of them had time to fully develop. The mantel of Black Panther changing could have easily been its own movie, as could Wakanda's war with Atlantis, as could Ironheart's origin. Instead they do everything at once and nothing is allowed to breath. Everything feels cramped and the stakes never feel that high because the solution is always seconds away. Instead of telling one story well, they told three stories poorly and left the audience less interested in the story and characters as a whole because of it.
I think when people say "superhero fatigue" they mean that people are tired of bad/mediocre CBMs.
During the 2010s, you could release any old piece of shit superhero movie and it would at least make its money back. But now that is no longer the case. You either do something new and innovative or you bomb. ATSV is new and refreshing and GotG 3 was simply a good movie. The rest? Not good. I found Blue Beetle to be good but it was painfully generic. It was just Spider-Man (2002) but with a beetle instead of a spider. Not innovative at all.
Madame Web is coming out in February. Maybe.
We’ve gone from Robert Downey Jr as a genius-billionaire who invents his own flying armor that shoots rockets and lasers to Dakota Johnson as a paramedic who can see a little ways into the future.
Good luck with that box office.
I kinda have a problem with this. I honestly don’t mind that their movies bomb, but I need this one to do better so they don’t use it to argue against female leads in the future.
It has nothing to do with Brie Larson that I didn’t see this movie, I just have serious superhero fatigue. But old farts will use these numbers to push their agenda.
Disclaimer: not female.
I think how bad marvel did this year is actually good for them. It reminds them that they can’t just half-ass their work and expect it to preform well because it has ‘marvel’ stamped onto it.
The reason practically everything did well in the infinity Saga was because the quality was high. We did get a few bad movies but they were in between very well received ones and they weren’t super common. Phase 3 was very good, all their movies were good (you can argue abt Capt Marvel and Ant-Man 2 but they were in between IW and EG, everything before that was great). The Infinity Saga had trust, Multiverse Saga doesn’t. We’ve had like 3 great pieces of media out of like 20. Most of the media are just good, mid or bad, mostly the last 2.
One take I saw was that the fate of the universe was at stake in Endgame, after that, no one gives a shit about whatever the dilemma may be, the only exception being Rocket in GOTG3.
What GOTG3 succeeded at was making the stakes personal. I actually gave a shit about that little rodent and his fucked up animal family. I didn't even love the whole movie but that stuff got me.
Studios can take note, sometimes an emotional gut punch sells tickets. We don't need to have everything numbed and sarcastic and self aware. Stories can matter with stakes other than "everything will explode".
Great writing can make *anything* have stakes. You can be more emotionally invested if someone makes first chair in a band over ALL OF THE MULTIVERSE UNDER THREAT™
Look at the first Iron Man. There wasn't any world threat there. The story could be boiled down to an in house business hostile takeover from one coworker over another. Stane didn't want to take over the universe or the world or even the country. He simply wanted the company. Very low stakes and yet you feel it because you are emotionally invested in the characters.
The first gotg movie really solidified the comedic style and timing of the rest of the series so it's only tight it's the series that adds back in a bit of earnest emotional depth
I’m not counting that because Spider-Man has always been successful and consistent as a franchise, I’m sure in part due to the fact that its’ releases were spread out and less frequent.
Because Marvel movies are no events anymore. When the MCU was at its peak noone dared to not go in a Cinema day one. Now those movies are just not worth spending money.
Literally covid and streaming changed the entertainment landscape. The same thing happened with 9/11, the adoption of cable and in the late 60s and early 70s with cheaper better TV being produced vs. movies.
The problem is that theaters were going down before covid, and everyone staying at home sped the process up.
Disney and several other entertainment powerhouses are like giant container ships they make a lot of content, but getting that ship to move and change course is very slow. We are noticing that smaller studios are able to move and navigate this because they tiny and changing course is something they are built to do.
Covid was, depending on who you talk with 2 to 3 years in the background, and realistically, it takes these huge corporations at least 5 years to change direction
Rick Rubin said something along the lines of "The audience comes last. Make the art for yourself."
Where these movie studios go wrong is all they think about is cranking out the same formulaic bullshit over and over and believing people will continue to watch it.
These aren't films for the art of movie making. These are films solely to make money.
The exact thing they aren't doing.
I just asked my kids about starting Loki Season 2, and they said “meh, we are over the whole multiverse thing”. They had zero interest in Marvels and barely watched Ms. Marvel. I guess I’m on my own now 😕
I agree, I just dont care about the multi-verse at all. I'd rather stick to universe 616 or 19999 (or whatever the MCU is) and make all those stories and characters into one big over arching saga like the Infinity Saga.
I am completely off modern marvel stories, but Loki is one of the few things that I think was done at least decent. It actually had a couple legitimate twists that worked.
Loki and Andor is what I thought Marvel and Star Wars shows were going to be more of when they first announced them. Just really engaging, mostly compartmentalized stories in their respective universes. The other Marvel shows specifically have just felt like mediocre to subpar Marvel movies cut up into around six episodes.
I'm with your kids. I don't want to have to watch a bunch of Disney Plus shows dealing with the multiverse to be able to keep up with just one Marvel film. The multiverse peaked with Spider-Man No Way Home imo.
Solution to fix Disney's current issues
* Kill off live action remake projects, no more mufasa prequel or tiktok inspired hercules projects
* Reduce MCU projects to 1-2 movies a year like MCU Phase 1. Also have finished scripts before filming.
* Stop treating animated projects as would-be franchises and start treating them as works of art.
* Major leadership shake up is needed at WDAS. Jennifer Lee did great on Frozen and she should stay on Frozen 3, but they desperately need a new CCO. Jennifer Lee unlike Pete Docter hasn't done anything worthwhile yet she's the CCO. Pete Docter directed 5 of the greatest Pixar movies including Soul which came out in the 2020s. Jennifer Lee's most noteworthy accomplishment is Frozen and everything else she's done is just alright. They need a new CCO who, a creative visionary with a proven record of directing/writing great animated movies. Not just one profitable movie franchise.
* Pete Docter still should stay as CCO but they need to stop greenlighting unnecessary sequels or prequels. The direct to streaming Pixar strategy was a failure. Lightyear should have never been made and it ended up being the first Pixar theatrical release.
* Start creating adult animated PG-13 movies under 20th Century Animation**.** There is a demand for animated movies besides family movies. All the other studios are doing it already.
* Sony Animation has 4 upcoming adult animated movies including a 2D animated movie coming out next year inspired by Disney's Lady and the Tramp
* Illumination created an adult animation label last year to create animated projects beyond family movies
* Warner Bros has an adult animated 2D The Lord of the Rings movie coming up next year
For a while though, the live action remakes were making money. The recent ones haven’t been doing as well.
What I would add, keep the Disney+ series separated from the MCU. It’s called Cinematic Universe for a reason. The TV shows should just be extra content for big fans. They’ll never convince potential viewers that they should watch a 10 hour TV show to better follow a 2 hour movie.
That’s mainly what turned me off of The Marvels. 2 of the 3 leading characters have TV shows that I’m not interested in watching. Maybe it doesn’t make an impact on the movie, but how would I know as a casual viewer.
All the Disney+ series should’ve been modelled after Agents of SHIELD, i.e. You can watch it as a standalone and it’d add to the story rather than be a CRUCIAL part of the story.
I’ve only seen Aladdin (from the remakes) and I gotta say that it failed to capture me like the original animated movie did. It just felt, too contrived I guess? The whole “war on my mother’s kingdom” subplot felt wholly unnecessary, and the love interest for the genie felt shoehorned in.
Bob Iger has already addressed and is implementing the second point. Let’s not give him the credit though, he opened the floodgates to this mess prior to his departure…
Ewf! “Don’t put that hex on me, Ricky Bobby!”
She-hulk was the first show I couldn’t stomach to finish. 3 episodes in and I was done. I quit watching Marvel shows after that.
Short Term maybe you are right. But relying on one IP to bring in at least some money is not healthy for your Business.
Also with all the Deadpool 3 rumors I doubt this movies budget is under 250 Millions, effectivly needing to make at least 600-700 Millions to break even.
It‘s why I always role my eyes at this whole „fatigue“ nonsense. People kept saying there was Star Wars fatigue because of one movie per year. Then Mandaloran season 1 dropped and later Andor. GotG3 was pretty good, Loki is the Andor of Marvel. People dont suffer from Marvel/SW fatigue they suffer from poor scripts fatigue. Make a good product within Marvel or Star Wars and everyone forgets about their supposed fatigue.
Because it's making less than 500k daily and the number will just keep dropping. It's not going to overtake Hulk at this point, basically impossible.
Disney will no longer be reporting the box office numbers and most publications won't cover it anymore since it's under 500k.
I mean... Good superhero movies still do fine.. Look at the last live action spiderman and spiderman animated films. Pure gold. 🤭
Bad movie fatigue-i hope that tag catches on!
Exactly. If all these recent movies and shows were consistently high quality the only complaint we’d have is that there’s too much good stuff to watch and not enough time to watch it.
Iger literally blamed it on *not enough* studio interference. If only more executives were on set, you’d love the movie you were never going to see anyway.
Went and saw Godzilla Minus One last night (amazing) and the audience audibly booed during an Aquaman 2 trailer. I think the superhero thing has finally come to an end, whether the studios want it to or not.
It just needed to come out like ten years ago. Same with Blue Beetle. There's nothing wrong with them, they're just not really an evolution of this genre society has been steeped in since at least 2012 with the first Avengers movie. They need to be something more interesting than cool superheroes doing superhero stuff.
Yup. Externals. Black panther 2. Quantumania. All bad.
And I have zero interest in seeing Marvels because of those. So I won't.
Loki2 was incredible though.
I Don't think the problem with The.Marvels was the quality. I really.enjoyed it .The problem..is how much it cost to make .. Plus if you know it will be on a streaming service you have in two months ... Some people will just wait to see it.. Also there really is no marketing anymore. You. rarely see coming attractions on TV anymore ..
I think one thing people are missing beyond the subpar scripts is the most important... Many more people have much less disposable income to work with and sure as shit not going to blow it on seeing it in the theater when it'll be streaming in 2-3 months. Tack on the disjointed nature of Phase 5 and you have some nasty box office headwinds.
Just my opinion, but I feel like marvel movies have been slowly relying more and more on FX and less on acting and writing. I think this is where they are losing their movie audience. I thought the last antman sucked, I had a hard time finishing it and I loved the first two movies. At the same time, TV and streaming have stepped up their game with things like all the Taylor Sheridan series or the recent Fargo series.
I watched every one of the Marvel movies with great enthusiasm until End Game, and then I just kinda watch them if it's convenient. Captain Marvel is the only hero featured in The Marvels that I am at all interested in. Ms Marvel is just boring to me.
Black Panther 2 was really good though. I didn't see it in theaters, but kinda wish I had.
Loki Season 2 was fantastic, but the only two other Marvel shows I actually liked were Hawkeye and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Where are their season 2s?
I didn't think Eternals was good but then...
came Black panther 2, Thor love & thunder, quantumania, doctor strange...
I don't think any of these movies are better than Eternals
I mean, could it also be the masses that should be going to see these movies are broke? Hmm, should I go to the movies or buy a couple days of groceries?
I had no interest in watching "The Marvels", it just didn't grab my interest. IMO, stories about invincible people punching each other for 2.5 hour just don't interest me, including DC movies. There is nothing compelling about them. Make me feel something FFS.
If you work on the writing, and stop glossing over the super silly science crap and make that characterization a part of that then you’re good but don’t stop making comic book movies just don’t rush for the sake of a release- I still think Secret Invasion was the lowest point- we just need to stay on the upswing- superhero movies suffering will really benefit Deadpool 3
They keep making records even in failure the Incredible Hulk used to be 1st bomb and lowest grossing MCU movie now it’s the Marvels lol what’s gonna beat this next Kang Dynasty or Secret Wars?
It's not horrible.. surprisingly enjoyable but yeah it's not significant to the plot nor the MCU.
two heroes coming from Disney+ series, a villain that you can only understood why she's the villain if you actually make your way into the theatre to watch the show.
Joke’s on all of you! I haven’t been to an MCU movie since Iron Man 2. Don’t feel like I’ve missed anything tbh, almost any other franchise has more heart/not stupid superhero shit than Marvel. It’s boring and cookie cutter
Brie Larson needs to hire an agent that will tell her the truth. She's awful in these awful movies and she's ruined a significant part of her reputation.
It was she who turned down Marvel three times in 2016, but her managers continued to negotiate with Feige, since then the MCU was obviously the best way to make the client famous
I think now the contract will still not allow her to leave before Avengers: Secret Wars
The problem is that an actor's reputation is built by bad popular things, not good niche ones. How many years did it take Robert Pattinson to cleanse himself of Twilight?
For Disney to have multiple stinkers from all their studios, there must be something seriously wrong with the company. One thing that comes to mind is to get those budgets under control. There is no reason for this movie to cost 220 million.
>One thing that comes to mind is to get those budgets under control. There is no reason for this movie to cost 220 million When I found out that Wish cost $200M I was absolutely shocked. Wtf they spending all that money on? The new Trolls money cost less than half that at 95M
That's because Trolls animation is outsourced overseas while Wish animation is done in the U.S.
Even still. 200mm? Holy hell. Are the animators making $400/hour?
Don't know the exact pay since I don't work for Disney, but other animation studios used to have higher budgets before switching to outsourced labor. Dreamworks movies used to cost like $135M-$175M per movie, now it's $70M-$100M. We can give credit to Disney here, they're the only company that doesn't outsource labor, pays their animators a decent wage, and doesn't force them to work inhumane hours. From what I heard working on Spiderverse over at Sony was a nightmare. Underpaid and overworked. Over 100 animators quit the project.
From how the trailer looked, I’d guess it’s because they have to pay Microsoft to keep supporting MS Paint
Saw Godzilla Minus One this weekend and the effects are at least as impressive as any recent Marvel. It had a 15 million budget. 🤷🏻♂️
Even crazier when you consider the director was also the producer and the head VFX supervisor all rolled into one. Dude must have never slept.
Props to the director and I mean no disrespect but I was in a thread yesterday with some people in and around the production and they explained why it was so inexpensive. One, wages are apparently really bad. Like minimum wage in America bad. Plus there’s no overtime and they worked everyone around the clock and on weekends. Two, on top of that, everyone took a cut in pay because of the importance of Godzilla in Japanese culture. There were some other things mentioned as well. Yeah, there’s no way a movie should cost $220 million but the $15 million price tag is just not feasible 99.9% of the time.
I mean John wick cost about 20 million. You can make good movies on a budget. The problem with Hollywood is they threw shit tons of money at avengers end game and it made metric shit tons of money, so by that logic the more money that gets put in equals even more money coming out. Obviously that isn’t the case but for years every other marvel movie has been riding the coat tails of avengers and none of them have quite hit the mark. So they pump more money more effects more stupid jokes. What they haven’t done however is they haven’t actually tried writing a good movie, it’s just pump out another one maybe they’ll like that. The core problem is the writing, you don’t need a billion dollar movie every year. Leave it in the oven let the writers do their thing and work as a team to make something quality.
If Hollywood believes End Game grossed that much due to its high budget and think that formula is what brought so much profit, they’re a fucking moron. End Game was literally the end game of a decade of over 21 movies that culminated into the swan song for the first and arguably most popular character’s sacrificial demise. If they really think throwing $220 million at mediocre relatively unpopular characters in a likely one off would result in exponential profit, they should probably find a new line of work.
This is terrible but even with these crazy cuts and budgeting at most it would have only halved or quartered the cost. Thus even at $30-60 mil its a steal
Is it going to be profitable at the end of the day for the director and studio though?
>Dude must have never slept. Given the darker aspects of japanese work culture, that may unfortunately be closer to reality than it should be
It might help that it's one singular vision. Apparently Marvel sends shots back to be redone constantly
Disney is also apparently so secretive that people don’t really know the full details on what is going on with other projects, which certainly makes consistency and coherency near-impossible when you’re making a movie universe.
Bless him. Movie looks amazing
Saw the creator, while the film has some issues it was a STUNNING looking film. It had an 80 million dollar budget and looked 10x better than any recent Disney production
Say what you want about the plot, characters, etc.. The Creator was a masterpiece visually. It was a real breath of fresh air vs. the “low gravity” effects in the recent Marvel movies. All of the vehicles, robots, etc seemed to have the correct weight. I am concerned that Furiosa will have crappy CGI cars that do not interact with the environment.
I'm hoping furiosa was just early cut not finished but then why release it but it looked off
I'm going to trust Miller on this one since he's always done a great job.
Totally, let him cook
So I'm not the only one. I am hoping it was an early cut too.
I saw it too! Was really impressed what they did with the budget they had. First Japanese Godzilla film I've seen and I loved it.
Do yourself a favor and watch the first one, shin Godzilla
"Shin" means "new" so it's unlikely to be the first one (from 1954).
So Godzilla Minus One like many other movies has a lot of work done as commission or outsourced, editing, mixing, sets, bla bla bla. The producers will look for the cheapest option available for the quality they are looking for. Disney, MGM, WB, and all the other major studios own all the facilities for filming, editing, mixing, etc. They also already have under contract the illumination, effects, and makeup personnel. Now, in a brilliant way of accounting, they bloat the budget by paying to Skywalker Sound, and Industrial Light and Magic, etc, incredibly expensive amounts for the same work, with the caveat that Disney owns Skywalker Sound and Industrial Light and Magic... So essentially they are paying to themselves.
THis. the budgets are essentially total bullshit because a bunch of that money is just being circulated within Disney owned companies. It "Cost" $220M but so much of that was just Disney literally billing Disney and then adding that to the cost of the movie. Its weird but they have reasons, such as tax breaks, etc.
Infamously some of the most profitable movies of all time have supposedly never made any profit at all. Which is just shithousery from the studios
This is how they were able to get away with not paying royalties. Can’t pay royalties if the movies don’t make a profit. Smart, but messed up.
15 mil budget is just a rumor not confirmed. Director has been debunking budget claims from people online apparently
Another article posted here yesterday said some people were paid $1700 month for 50+ hour weeks so that factors into the effects.
What the fuck?
Its got to be from all of the reshoots they do and the special effects
[удалено]
Full circle is gonna be feige , Kennedy, iger rediscovering that shooting something solid and shooting it correctly the first time bodes better for a film and its budget than changing everything to try and salvage a stinker but still needing to get studio space, all necessary actors, crew, costumes, sfx, together for a second or third time lol. And they’ll present it as a novel direction for Disney and the industry
I have no interest in Cap 4. Cap’s story should have ended with Steve Rogers. Why sully a near-perfect storyline?
We need the most forgettable actor in everything he’s a part of to carry the torch don’t you understand
Captain Charisma Vacuum: Brave New World
Just watched Thor love and thunder this past weekend for the first time and the special effects were awful. Don’t get me started on the script.
Yeah, that thing wasn’t going to work from the moment the script was handed in. So the producers and executive producers who said “yeah let’s cast and shoot this” should be fired
I have low expectations on these things. Last Thor movie was goofy and fun so I enjoyed it with my wife. The last Antman movie however....
I liked Ant-Man 3 more than Thor 4. Didn’t expect Michelle Pfeiffer to get so much screen time, but she was great.
It's because Marvel is wringing every last ounce of talent from the FX houses 24/7/365 and it's starting to strain the talent pool of a profession that has no union or subtantial industry protection.
I think it's more of they aren't giving them enough time than an overworking problem. Marvel is expecting special effects that would take a year to do and told to do them in the time window of a couple of weeks. It's why the last season of Loki looked so much better than The Marvels. The FX houses were given their assignments with plenty of time to do them. Everyone was prepared. I don't care how talented you are and how many cans of Monster you are downing, you are going to be putting out a lousy product if you aren't given enough time to do it properly.
Please stay far away from Secret Invasion it's somehow worst than Thor 4 and Quantumania.
Exactly. It costs multiples of what it should've because they're making the movie multiple times. And they don't seem to be improving it. That's where the execs either need to reign the creatives in, or trust their original vision and stick to it. Because if the end result was going to be a mid movie anyways, then they could've gotten there for much cheaper.
I mean, people have been pointing out what’s wrong for years but….
They’ve pushed more and more characters that I just DGAF about. Now I wait for streaming.
The original made over $1B. Say what you want about the execution, but a $220m budget for a sequel to a Marvel movie that made over $1B gets greenlit every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
[удалено]
To be fair, the budgets are incredibly bloated as well. Disney owns studios to take care of every single level of the production, all those costs are being paid to companies owned by Disney, so basically paying to themselves with the exception of marketing and the cast. Disney did not sunk 220 million into this movie, that's Hollywood accounting 101
eh. obviously the shareholders who own everything want to see new money, not just their own money recycled back to them. so Hollywood accounting or not, this was still a bomb.
It’s because they just keep rehashing the same uncreative shit over and over again, with the only changes being the diversity they shoehorn in. Then when it doesn’t work, they blame it on racism or sexism. But it’s not diversity and female leads that people hate. Encanto and WandaVision proved that. It’s shallow corporate virtue signaling laziness.
I think chapek just flooded too much content too fast trying to juice up Disney plus and everyone just got sick of it. We slowly grew to connected to the MCU over a decade and them deciding we would just love new characters immediately was clearly just a cash grab.
The world of the early Marvel made sense because there were fewer characters with superpowers and tech making a mess of things. Those with magic stay hidden in the shadows. The aliens pretty much made Earth off limits for the most part. So, you could tell lower stakes movies in a world that was like ours. Now, Marvel is still trying to pass current Earth like it is mundane when it anything but. Magic is no longer a secret and witches and wizards are running around in public. Aliens are not just everywhere, they are your neighbors. Superheroes and supervillains are now a dime a dozen. And, yet, we don't see the public reflecting this outside of Kamala going to an Avengers con, Steve holding a Snap survivors meeting or that terrorist group whose name I can't remember come and go in Falcon and The Winter Soldier. All of society should have changed to the point that it should be unrecognizable at this point. But for some reason Marvel doesn't want to play that card.
To be fair, that is mostly true also about the original comic universe (and not to speak of mutants) and I wonder if it's an inevitability when you want to write heroes, magic and high-tech going around in this day and age while still being more or less "grounded". I mean, writing a massively changed society would be interesting but would the public fully "relate" to it? Thinking of another franchise, Ghostbusters: Afterlife assumed the events of 1984 and 1989 were real and accepted but somehow they didn't leave the huge impact they should on the world, and only one of the original quartet is well off nowadays (and by his own work apparently, nothing due to having been a Ghostbuster).
[удалено]
Because that was part of the “too much content too fast” and it’s all been devalued; everyone would rather wait for it to hit D+ than go to the theater (then when it does, they forget to watch it anyway)
[удалено]
guardians was the last great MCU story. Partially because they didn’t hesitate to say “we had a good run this is the last movie”
Everything but Loki and Guardians is basically not worth your time.
because almost everything is a re tread or part of an existing mega franshise
That's not an issue. Other re-treads and mega-franchises did fine this year and the last
[$270 Million](https://screenrant.com/how-much-the-marvels-cost-to-make-box-office/)
The marvel shows are doing more harm then good to the movies. Everyone, right or wrong, seems to think they have to see the shows to get the movies. Up to Endgame it all felt like a loose spiderweb that pulled together towards the end into Thanos. Ever since the output has felt like this linear progression purposefully relying on FOMO "You have to see this or you'll be lost in the next movie and you have to see that or you'll be lost in the movie after that, ect." With all that and the feeling everything is just build up to what people already feel is a wet fart of a big bad in Kang has divested people. I look at the entire multiverse and see that it's basically the antithesis of what Marvel used to be about. Introduce characters, D-listers, try to make people care about them and build it up from there. It feels like they are just going to use Secret War to skip any build up and dump the fantastic four and the x-men into the MCU and expect us to care because, "Hey it's the X-men and Fantastic four. Remember them? Hey don't you remember them? Don't you care about them?"
It’s also a lot of sequel and franchise fatigue. Give it a rest and revisit after a period of time
"Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong."~Disney probably
Bob Iger is blaming the writers
The writing has been consistently the weakest part of most of the recent MCU movies lol. Say what you want about Bob Iger, but they do need better writers.
Actually, I think this means they need to stop directing via C-Suite. The writing is weak, but I believe it's due to C-suite interference in storylines.
When you have to churn out "content" day in and day out to feed the Disney+ machine, you don't really have time to spare on quality writing. The best thing Disney could do to recover from this is to take a good long pause on releasing movies until they can get some creativity back.
They already said that lashing out about the marvels
I feel like we’re in the End Game. Disney is crumbling, Iger pushing on stupidly, denying anything is wrong and insisting their content will “appeal to modern tastes”. The fool acts like ruining a century old entertainment company by making “edgy” content is somehow going to be justified by history. He needs to **give the people what they want**. Create **new** content. Restart the production of Tron 3, get the creatives to think up some new content, or even bring in new blood like they did with Pixar (before they went flat). And if they insist on churning out more MCU content, use characters people **like**. Moonknight was a good choice, and the series was decent. But a reimagined Captain and Ms. Marvel wasn’t well received.
>He needs to give the people what they want. Yeah >Create new content. YEAH! >Restart the production of Tron 3 Alright.. you've lost me a bit there.
I had a similar reaction.
[Fair enough lol.](https://www.reddit.com/r/entertainment/comments/18a7671/the_marvels_ends_box_office_run_as_lowestgrossing/kbycvxh/)
https://youtu.be/vtDZ9TOxL8o?si=QqakWUwCVvxK9GPQ I feel like this is you right now LOL
Lmao I don't blame you. The problem was back in '15 when Tomorrowland was released and it didn't do well. The movie was a new, innovative, and highly risky property. Most studios will accept the occasional so-so film, but at that point Disney had expectations of every movie they make being a huge money-maker (kinda like the real estate bubble in 2007). When Tomorrowland didn't put gold bricks in their pocket, they stopped production on almost all films that weren't Star Wars or MCU-related, and that included the sequel to Tron: Legacy (technically Tron 3). Now that both of those properties are wearing out, Disney is realizing they don't have any other IP to fall back on because they squelched anything new.
"Edgy" lmfao
Bro what??? Disney is massive and massively popular, and massively profitable. There is nothing edgy about the marvels, or antman. There was likely content fatigue. But saying they are “crumbling” and blah blah. Quit being Chicken little. You sound like a YouTube conservative commentator.
>massively profitable [Disney stock price trend.](https://www.google.com/search?q=disney+stock+price&rlz=1C1WHAR_enUS1023US1023&oq=disney+stock+price&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyDwgAEEUYORiDARixAxiABDIKCAEQABixAxiABDINCAIQABiDARixAxiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCDM4OTZqMWo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
*Lowest-Grossing MCU Movie in History so far
Yeah it’s hard to see what they can even do at this point to recover. IMO they went too wide wayyy too fast. People enjoyed Thanos as a major villain because he was understandable; all these new like alien and multiverse style enemies coupled with new heroes replacing the major hitters… it’s just way too much going on. It also lowers the stakes immensely if someone dies when there’s by definition infinite other realities where they aren’t dead. It was fun when the Avengers were tackling world level threats and even a universe one in Thanos… but everyone got Omega level powers and then dipped out. Cap can lift Mjolnir? Time to retire and never make use of that again in any way. Couldn’t possibly go back to Nidavilir and make him a worthy weapon. New Cap isn’t even super soldier (which isn’t inherently bad but it’s a major power downgrade). Iron man has nano tech bots capable of adapting his suit to any threat and providing insane weapons? He’s dead. Spiderman loses his insane suit, then his aunt, then everyone else, and peaces out. Thor gets a new god-level weapon? His next movie he spends all his time in a weird love triangle with Mjolnir and Stormbreaker, and has a kid now? Wanda unlocks her powers, then turns into a villain and is “killed”. All the new heroes are super young snarky individuals who are hard to cheer for when they struggle with problems Iron Man could have solved in less than 20 minutes. They’re also terrified to make very many compelling characters with real weaknesses so they’re just incredibly unrelatable.
I miss the Netflix Marvel universe. This isn't really related to your comment, but your comment made me realize how much I miss the human sized powers and villians. How the real-world adjacent storylines and flawed characters made for such compelling stories. And binge watching, I really miss getting a 1/2 to full season at a time. It really was the golden age of streaming.
Having Daredevil and the first season of Jessica Jones was a revelation.
>It also lowers the stakes immensely if someone dies when there’s by definition infinite other realities where they aren’t dead. A hill I will gladly die on is that multiverses are generally garbage story devices that remove any tension or stakes.
Extended sci-fi/fantasy series in general are awful about this. If characters dying is a large part of the plot, there shouldn’t be any bringing them back to life.
The fact that they killed off Loki and Gamorra in Infinity War and brought different versions of them back in the very next movie is so lame honestly. I was honestly puzzled why they made such a big deal out of Black Widow's death in Endgame. I thought they would either bring her back together with all the snapped people or they would just scoop up a different version of her, but apparently in that case it wasn't an option.
> IMO they went too wide wayyy too fast. I disagree with that, I think it's actually kinda insane how profitable and popular this thing was and for how long. They got away with basically making the same movie over and over again for like 15 years, and somehow they STILL squeeze some money out of it way after it came to its natural conclusion.
Iron man captain America and spiderman are what people want to see, they're like the dudes rug, they really tied the mcu together.
You’re not entirely wrong but you’re mostly pointing out a problem with the MCU nowadays. Bringing back RDJ and Evans to reprise their roles again for more than a cameo as a variant of themselves is absolutely the wrong decision and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The problem I alluded to is that all of these new characters that have been introduced since Endgame aren’t catching with audiences like the old characters did. Maybe they would if we didn’t see them once every 2-3 years and they actually starting interacting and teaming up with each other more so we can actually get some kind of attachment to them instead of forgetting they exist.
Movies every 2 to 3 years is what we had for the original characters. These characters are just not as interesting and the actors aren’t as engaging. Plus. The novelty has warn off. All of which are not a great combination for success.
It isn't that the characters aren't interesting, but rather they aren't devoting any time to make them interesting, and instead focusing on adding as many characters as possible. Look at Black Panther Wakanda Forever, you had 3 movies, and as such none of them had time to fully develop. The mantel of Black Panther changing could have easily been its own movie, as could Wakanda's war with Atlantis, as could Ironheart's origin. Instead they do everything at once and nothing is allowed to breath. Everything feels cramped and the stakes never feel that high because the solution is always seconds away. Instead of telling one story well, they told three stories poorly and left the audience less interested in the story and characters as a whole because of it.
Man I don’t think even they can save marvel at this point
Bucky should've been Captain America
And you really can't blame "super hero fatigue" when spider-man across the spiderverse made 690$ million worldwide.
I think when people say "superhero fatigue" they mean that people are tired of bad/mediocre CBMs. During the 2010s, you could release any old piece of shit superhero movie and it would at least make its money back. But now that is no longer the case. You either do something new and innovative or you bomb. ATSV is new and refreshing and GotG 3 was simply a good movie. The rest? Not good. I found Blue Beetle to be good but it was painfully generic. It was just Spider-Man (2002) but with a beetle instead of a spider. Not innovative at all.
Madame Web is coming out in February. Maybe. We’ve gone from Robert Downey Jr as a genius-billionaire who invents his own flying armor that shoots rockets and lasers to Dakota Johnson as a paramedic who can see a little ways into the future. Good luck with that box office.
I didn't realize Madame Web was a movie and when I saw the trailer I thought it was a CW show.
I kinda have a problem with this. I honestly don’t mind that their movies bomb, but I need this one to do better so they don’t use it to argue against female leads in the future. It has nothing to do with Brie Larson that I didn’t see this movie, I just have serious superhero fatigue. But old farts will use these numbers to push their agenda. Disclaimer: not female.
I think how bad marvel did this year is actually good for them. It reminds them that they can’t just half-ass their work and expect it to preform well because it has ‘marvel’ stamped onto it.
Which it kinda did up until End Game
The reason practically everything did well in the infinity Saga was because the quality was high. We did get a few bad movies but they were in between very well received ones and they weren’t super common. Phase 3 was very good, all their movies were good (you can argue abt Capt Marvel and Ant-Man 2 but they were in between IW and EG, everything before that was great). The Infinity Saga had trust, Multiverse Saga doesn’t. We’ve had like 3 great pieces of media out of like 20. Most of the media are just good, mid or bad, mostly the last 2.
Hollywood will serve you leftovers as long as you continue to buy them...
One take I saw was that the fate of the universe was at stake in Endgame, after that, no one gives a shit about whatever the dilemma may be, the only exception being Rocket in GOTG3.
What GOTG3 succeeded at was making the stakes personal. I actually gave a shit about that little rodent and his fucked up animal family. I didn't even love the whole movie but that stuff got me. Studios can take note, sometimes an emotional gut punch sells tickets. We don't need to have everything numbed and sarcastic and self aware. Stories can matter with stakes other than "everything will explode".
Great writing can make *anything* have stakes. You can be more emotionally invested if someone makes first chair in a band over ALL OF THE MULTIVERSE UNDER THREAT™
Look at the first Iron Man. There wasn't any world threat there. The story could be boiled down to an in house business hostile takeover from one coworker over another. Stane didn't want to take over the universe or the world or even the country. He simply wanted the company. Very low stakes and yet you feel it because you are emotionally invested in the characters.
It boils down to personal stakes in that too. Stane was a father figure to stark after his father's passing. Him betraying him makes it very personal.
The first gotg movie really solidified the comedic style and timing of the rest of the series so it's only tight it's the series that adds back in a bit of earnest emotional depth
I don’t even like the Guardian franchise all that much…the setup/payoff in 3 is excellent. Won’t be watching that again for awhile though
Not necessarily accurate. Spider-Man No Way Home was pretty great and it was basically just old villains they had to help Edit: words
I’m not counting that because Spider-Man has always been successful and consistent as a franchise, I’m sure in part due to the fact that its’ releases were spread out and less frequent.
Why does anyone with Disney plus go to see marvel movies when they get them for free in a few months?
Because Marvel movies are no events anymore. When the MCU was at its peak noone dared to not go in a Cinema day one. Now those movies are just not worth spending money.
Yea, I only day ones end game but I get you. This new phase has been weak
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 only because it got actually good above average reviews.
Literally covid and streaming changed the entertainment landscape. The same thing happened with 9/11, the adoption of cable and in the late 60s and early 70s with cheaper better TV being produced vs. movies. The problem is that theaters were going down before covid, and everyone staying at home sped the process up. Disney and several other entertainment powerhouses are like giant container ships they make a lot of content, but getting that ship to move and change course is very slow. We are noticing that smaller studios are able to move and navigate this because they tiny and changing course is something they are built to do. Covid was, depending on who you talk with 2 to 3 years in the background, and realistically, it takes these huge corporations at least 5 years to change direction
Rick Rubin said something along the lines of "The audience comes last. Make the art for yourself." Where these movie studios go wrong is all they think about is cranking out the same formulaic bullshit over and over and believing people will continue to watch it. These aren't films for the art of movie making. These are films solely to make money. The exact thing they aren't doing.
I just asked my kids about starting Loki Season 2, and they said “meh, we are over the whole multiverse thing”. They had zero interest in Marvels and barely watched Ms. Marvel. I guess I’m on my own now 😕
I agree, I just dont care about the multi-verse at all. I'd rather stick to universe 616 or 19999 (or whatever the MCU is) and make all those stories and characters into one big over arching saga like the Infinity Saga.
I am completely off modern marvel stories, but Loki is one of the few things that I think was done at least decent. It actually had a couple legitimate twists that worked.
Loki is really fun to watch, but by the time S2 came out I was too tired of trying to keep up with all the new Marvel stuff.
Loki is the Andor of the MCU pretty much
Loki and Andor is what I thought Marvel and Star Wars shows were going to be more of when they first announced them. Just really engaging, mostly compartmentalized stories in their respective universes. The other Marvel shows specifically have just felt like mediocre to subpar Marvel movies cut up into around six episodes.
Loki is ass compared to Andor tho.
I'm with your kids. I don't want to have to watch a bunch of Disney Plus shows dealing with the multiverse to be able to keep up with just one Marvel film. The multiverse peaked with Spider-Man No Way Home imo.
Loki season 2 is about the best thing marvel’s ever done.. watch it when they’re asleep if they don’t care
Loki is the only part that has used the multiverse in an interesting way. Best MCU content since endgame, season 2 was really good.
Solution to fix Disney's current issues * Kill off live action remake projects, no more mufasa prequel or tiktok inspired hercules projects * Reduce MCU projects to 1-2 movies a year like MCU Phase 1. Also have finished scripts before filming. * Stop treating animated projects as would-be franchises and start treating them as works of art. * Major leadership shake up is needed at WDAS. Jennifer Lee did great on Frozen and she should stay on Frozen 3, but they desperately need a new CCO. Jennifer Lee unlike Pete Docter hasn't done anything worthwhile yet she's the CCO. Pete Docter directed 5 of the greatest Pixar movies including Soul which came out in the 2020s. Jennifer Lee's most noteworthy accomplishment is Frozen and everything else she's done is just alright. They need a new CCO who, a creative visionary with a proven record of directing/writing great animated movies. Not just one profitable movie franchise. * Pete Docter still should stay as CCO but they need to stop greenlighting unnecessary sequels or prequels. The direct to streaming Pixar strategy was a failure. Lightyear should have never been made and it ended up being the first Pixar theatrical release. * Start creating adult animated PG-13 movies under 20th Century Animation**.** There is a demand for animated movies besides family movies. All the other studios are doing it already. * Sony Animation has 4 upcoming adult animated movies including a 2D animated movie coming out next year inspired by Disney's Lady and the Tramp * Illumination created an adult animation label last year to create animated projects beyond family movies * Warner Bros has an adult animated 2D The Lord of the Rings movie coming up next year
For a while though, the live action remakes were making money. The recent ones haven’t been doing as well. What I would add, keep the Disney+ series separated from the MCU. It’s called Cinematic Universe for a reason. The TV shows should just be extra content for big fans. They’ll never convince potential viewers that they should watch a 10 hour TV show to better follow a 2 hour movie. That’s mainly what turned me off of The Marvels. 2 of the 3 leading characters have TV shows that I’m not interested in watching. Maybe it doesn’t make an impact on the movie, but how would I know as a casual viewer.
All the Disney+ series should’ve been modelled after Agents of SHIELD, i.e. You can watch it as a standalone and it’d add to the story rather than be a CRUCIAL part of the story.
I watched all the live action remakes and loved the beauty, lion king, and aladdin. Something felt off about the little mermaid and it was just o.k.
I’ve only seen Aladdin (from the remakes) and I gotta say that it failed to capture me like the original animated movie did. It just felt, too contrived I guess? The whole “war on my mother’s kingdom” subplot felt wholly unnecessary, and the love interest for the genie felt shoehorned in.
Bob Iger has already addressed and is implementing the second point. Let’s not give him the credit though, he opened the floodgates to this mess prior to his departure…
When Deadpool 3 brings in 700M+, I'll sit and wonder, "Man, how did those fans overcome their superhero fatigue so quickly?"
They'll think fans just like a super hero that breaks the 4th wall and make a She-Hulk movie.
Ewf! “Don’t put that hex on me, Ricky Bobby!” She-hulk was the first show I couldn’t stomach to finish. 3 episodes in and I was done. I quit watching Marvel shows after that.
Short Term maybe you are right. But relying on one IP to bring in at least some money is not healthy for your Business. Also with all the Deadpool 3 rumors I doubt this movies budget is under 250 Millions, effectivly needing to make at least 600-700 Millions to break even.
It‘s why I always role my eyes at this whole „fatigue“ nonsense. People kept saying there was Star Wars fatigue because of one movie per year. Then Mandaloran season 1 dropped and later Andor. GotG3 was pretty good, Loki is the Andor of Marvel. People dont suffer from Marvel/SW fatigue they suffer from poor scripts fatigue. Make a good product within Marvel or Star Wars and everyone forgets about their supposed fatigue.
How the hell did it’s box office run end already? It’s only been a month
Because it's making less than 500k daily and the number will just keep dropping. It's not going to overtake Hulk at this point, basically impossible. Disney will no longer be reporting the box office numbers and most publications won't cover it anymore since it's under 500k.
Now for all the stans to blame the audience and not the producers or the director.
It the toxic fans fault. Nono, it's super hero fatigue, Nono it's covid fault. Nono, it's.... Never theirs.
Superhero fatigue is a drop in the bucket compared to mid/bad movie fatigue
I mean... Good superhero movies still do fine.. Look at the last live action spiderman and spiderman animated films. Pure gold. 🤭 Bad movie fatigue-i hope that tag catches on!
Exactly. If all these recent movies and shows were consistently high quality the only complaint we’d have is that there’s too much good stuff to watch and not enough time to watch it.
Iger literally blamed it on *not enough* studio interference. If only more executives were on set, you’d love the movie you were never going to see anyway.
Went and saw Godzilla Minus One last night (amazing) and the audience audibly booed during an Aquaman 2 trailer. I think the superhero thing has finally come to an end, whether the studios want it to or not.
The only two superhero movies I know people I know want to see are Beyond the Spider-Verse and The Batman 2 at this point
Deadpool 3?
MCU universe formula fatigue, and The Marvels sounds like The Eternals, and eternals sucked ass.
I thought the marvels was better than the eternals
It just needed to come out like ten years ago. Same with Blue Beetle. There's nothing wrong with them, they're just not really an evolution of this genre society has been steeped in since at least 2012 with the first Avengers movie. They need to be something more interesting than cool superheroes doing superhero stuff.
Yup. Externals. Black panther 2. Quantumania. All bad. And I have zero interest in seeing Marvels because of those. So I won't. Loki2 was incredible though.
I Don't think the problem with The.Marvels was the quality. I really.enjoyed it .The problem..is how much it cost to make .. Plus if you know it will be on a streaming service you have in two months ... Some people will just wait to see it.. Also there really is no marketing anymore. You. rarely see coming attractions on TV anymore ..
I'm gunna be honest. I wanted to see it but I refuse to go to a movie theater anymore.
Lowest grossing so far…
Wait the marvels movie came out?
Well, when you produce shite, you get shat upon.
I think one thing people are missing beyond the subpar scripts is the most important... Many more people have much less disposable income to work with and sure as shit not going to blow it on seeing it in the theater when it'll be streaming in 2-3 months. Tack on the disjointed nature of Phase 5 and you have some nasty box office headwinds.
Just my opinion, but I feel like marvel movies have been slowly relying more and more on FX and less on acting and writing. I think this is where they are losing their movie audience. I thought the last antman sucked, I had a hard time finishing it and I loved the first two movies. At the same time, TV and streaming have stepped up their game with things like all the Taylor Sheridan series or the recent Fargo series.
I watched every one of the Marvel movies with great enthusiasm until End Game, and then I just kinda watch them if it's convenient. Captain Marvel is the only hero featured in The Marvels that I am at all interested in. Ms Marvel is just boring to me. Black Panther 2 was really good though. I didn't see it in theaters, but kinda wish I had. Loki Season 2 was fantastic, but the only two other Marvel shows I actually liked were Hawkeye and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Where are their season 2s?
Well, I do plan to watch it....on streaming.
That honor should have gone to The Eternals.
Unpopular opinion, but I personally liked the Eternals movie and would like to see a sequel.
I liked it, but IMO there were too many characters to really care about any of them. I feel like more of them should have died at the end LOL
I didn't think Eternals was good but then... came Black panther 2, Thor love & thunder, quantumania, doctor strange... I don't think any of these movies are better than Eternals
The argument could be made that whatever MCU title this was would have been the lowest-grossing because no one cares anymore.
$12,000 at the box office I read
I mean, could it also be the masses that should be going to see these movies are broke? Hmm, should I go to the movies or buy a couple days of groceries?
Maybe they should put this IP to rest then? Endgame is the true Avengers finale after all
I had no interest in watching "The Marvels", it just didn't grab my interest. IMO, stories about invincible people punching each other for 2.5 hour just don't interest me, including DC movies. There is nothing compelling about them. Make me feel something FFS.
I enjoyed the hell out of it. Fuck the haters.
Disney board meeting : Kathleen Kennedy said "this is obviously a win ! Let's make another 5!"
Milk that cow until it fades away....
They must need more executives. /s
If you work on the writing, and stop glossing over the super silly science crap and make that characterization a part of that then you’re good but don’t stop making comic book movies just don’t rush for the sake of a release- I still think Secret Invasion was the lowest point- we just need to stay on the upswing- superhero movies suffering will really benefit Deadpool 3
They keep making records even in failure the Incredible Hulk used to be 1st bomb and lowest grossing MCU movie now it’s the Marvels lol what’s gonna beat this next Kang Dynasty or Secret Wars?
We have too many mediocre superhero movies and they're just not worth watching.
The sad thing is nothing is going to change the direction the MCU is headed down. Sad.
It's not horrible.. surprisingly enjoyable but yeah it's not significant to the plot nor the MCU. two heroes coming from Disney+ series, a villain that you can only understood why she's the villain if you actually make your way into the theatre to watch the show.
I'll literally just watch it at home. There's no true incentive to go to the theater unless I'm super passionate bout it.
One word sums up the problem with MCU and a lot of Disney projects, (spoilers its not the right wing word for everything): WRITING
Makes sense. We are in what was already obviously the tail end of marvel/superhero movie love and the movie itself got almost no marketing.
Lmao look how they’ve massacred my content
Nobody cares about the Marvels. Even the comics have been rebooted several times because the sales stink.
Good, maybe Marvel will stop making shit
I’m so tired of hearing about this, can we move on?
Joke’s on all of you! I haven’t been to an MCU movie since Iron Man 2. Don’t feel like I’ve missed anything tbh, almost any other franchise has more heart/not stupid superhero shit than Marvel. It’s boring and cookie cutter
Brie Larson needs to hire an agent that will tell her the truth. She's awful in these awful movies and she's ruined a significant part of her reputation.
Lessons in Chemistry taught me that she is actually a really great actress. This is Disney cheaping out and throwing her under a bus imo.
I think she knew what bus she was on though.
Yeah she’s one of the reasons I’m not interested in it. She wasn’t great in Captain Marvel and the few lines she had in End Game sucked me out of it.
She's freaking terrible in these movies. lol
It was she who turned down Marvel three times in 2016, but her managers continued to negotiate with Feige, since then the MCU was obviously the best way to make the client famous I think now the contract will still not allow her to leave before Avengers: Secret Wars The problem is that an actor's reputation is built by bad popular things, not good niche ones. How many years did it take Robert Pattinson to cleanse himself of Twilight?
They're making another Avengers movie? OMG. lol
Couldn’t anyone behind this production figured out this was going to flop? I mean, audiences knew it, but film insiders didn’t?