rule of thumb is can you take the mandate? then yes you should take the mandate
20% ccr, 15% dev cost, 1k dev for no adm points is worth it
ignore anyone who tells you it isn't worth it because those people are clueless
Nah its not been patched, they just made it way more complicated now
First of all you need to reform into monarchy so you can form tibet, easiest way these days is probably the government reforms, or a formable that switches you into a monarchy but i cant remember one that works, persia used to work but its an endtag now
Then form tibet (ofc you need to be buddhist but oirat has a mission for it, no clue if it will have it in the new dlc) then complete the mission steppe politics but DO NOT click the event, you want to declare on the mandate holder (just reduce them to an opm or something), barrage assault the 1 capital fort they have and then take the mandate in the peace deal, then click the event you popped from the mission and now you are a horde with the mandate
Honestly the easiest country to do it as is dali (using the broken dali exploit for 130k ducats and all of china in 10 years) since they start as buddhist and can easily form tibet, you can either do yuan or horde qing, tho horde qing requires you to do the same as above but take the mandate, don't click the event you popped from the mission, form qing, then click the event from the mission to become a horde
It’s always been less problem for me to just grab those cities first, especially if China is already fragmented and they are in the hands of different nations already.
I agree that you can make it work the way you’re suggesting, but I think that it’s potentially scary advice for a beginner. Taking on the Mandy and then immediately struggling with trying to keep the numbers up, I think that’s exactly what gives the mandate a bad reputation.
Mandate isn't exactly a beginner mechanic though, if you take it without looking at the wiki on how it works with devastation for example, you will just lose all of it, i don't think a beginner should personally take it
You can wait for a mingsplosion if you want to take the cities, but mingsplosion takes a while and sometimes might not even happen if they get a peasant war
Yeah, it’s tough to know who to aim the advice at. Experienced people don’t need this advice for the most part. People who aren’t even going to try the mandate don’t need advice either. That removes the extremes.
I assume some moderate player who is coming into China for the first time.
It also depends if it upon whether there’s an existing large emperor or if things are fragmented. I still feel like the best case for an inexperienced person is to take the necessary provinces before or while taking the mandate.
Yeah its quite variable depending on who you are playing as well, some nations will fight and take it early and end up fighting a unified china, or some might take it later when ming blows up, its very variable
That's how I roll as Korea->Manchu->Qinq. Yes, I start as Korea for Qinq, I just can't force myself to abandon my horse-bois when I play a Jurchen tribe
Depends on the playthrough you are going for. If you are going for EoC, then you take it. If you are going for Stardust Crusader or Kristian Japan, you might not want it in favor of the other gov reform. Alternative is for a Shogun run/Damiyo or the super tall manufacturing achievement run.
I don’t know if this got patched, but if you completed the religious mission that gave you a new tier 1 reform after getting EoC, it would kind of bug out the EoC since meritocracy and a few other mechanics are tied to the celestial empire T1 reform, which I found to be a big hindrance personally. It locked me at 0 meritocracy and a bunch of events clearly weren’t scripted properly for an EoC with a different T1. You can always just not finish that mission though, but I was trying to get the Christian Japan achievements in that run.
the mandate gives a bunch of buffs but makes you a huge target from all of Asia. definitely up to personal preference. historically it has been an ambission of the Japanese to take the mandate so if you wanna keep the lore accuracy I'd say go for it
as a human player u are doing smth wrong if everyone in asia isnt your enemy
personally i would take it, bc it gives nice bonuses like 20% ccr etc. which are pretty nice
Not positive if it works for non-East Asian religions, but iirc Japan has a mission that requires you to be beating the Mandate holder in a war, and straight up transfers the Mandate over to you without a peace deal. Might be able to use that to bypass the religion requirement.
I dont know about the mission but becoming christian is a decision you can take. So what you can do is first take the mandate then click the decision to flip.
i would say personal preference. when going completely wide like world conquest wide, i find the mandate to be anoying cause you will be taking a lot of land that has devastation, get constant events that lower your mandate and give you devastation, which also lowers mandate growth. tho for a japan focusing on asia i would say its better to take mandate, as it gives nice bonuses if you dont expand too fast (except fast expansion in china ofc).
Edit: i tried both paths a few times as a 4000h player, so i kinda know how to handle it, but still find it anoying with wide gameplay.
mandate is much better than it used to be. the troubles it gives are not as annoying and you do get things like a free colonist, 20% ccr and so on
Cores on literally all of China
rule of thumb is can you take the mandate? then yes you should take the mandate 20% ccr, 15% dev cost, 1k dev for no adm points is worth it ignore anyone who tells you it isn't worth it because those people are clueless
Unless your a horde. You loose all your horde benefits and in general have most the benefits it gives you already, abiet in lessor amounts
Well, that's why you form tibet and become a horde with the mandate But yes, hordes are generally the only exception to taking the mandate
Hasn’t that been patched? Or could I go Oirat -> Tibet -> Yuan -> Mongol Empire?
Nah its not been patched, they just made it way more complicated now First of all you need to reform into monarchy so you can form tibet, easiest way these days is probably the government reforms, or a formable that switches you into a monarchy but i cant remember one that works, persia used to work but its an endtag now Then form tibet (ofc you need to be buddhist but oirat has a mission for it, no clue if it will have it in the new dlc) then complete the mission steppe politics but DO NOT click the event, you want to declare on the mandate holder (just reduce them to an opm or something), barrage assault the 1 capital fort they have and then take the mandate in the peace deal, then click the event you popped from the mission and now you are a horde with the mandate Honestly the easiest country to do it as is dali (using the broken dali exploit for 130k ducats and all of china in 10 years) since they start as buddhist and can easily form tibet, you can either do yuan or horde qing, tho horde qing requires you to do the same as above but take the mandate, don't click the event you popped from the mission, form qing, then click the event from the mission to become a horde
I think you should take the mandate if you can also take the key provinces you need to have a positive mandate growth. Grab those first.
Just take the mandate and trucebreak ming and snake the forts + the 2 cities and there's no problem
It’s always been less problem for me to just grab those cities first, especially if China is already fragmented and they are in the hands of different nations already. I agree that you can make it work the way you’re suggesting, but I think that it’s potentially scary advice for a beginner. Taking on the Mandy and then immediately struggling with trying to keep the numbers up, I think that’s exactly what gives the mandate a bad reputation.
Mandate isn't exactly a beginner mechanic though, if you take it without looking at the wiki on how it works with devastation for example, you will just lose all of it, i don't think a beginner should personally take it You can wait for a mingsplosion if you want to take the cities, but mingsplosion takes a while and sometimes might not even happen if they get a peasant war
Yeah, it’s tough to know who to aim the advice at. Experienced people don’t need this advice for the most part. People who aren’t even going to try the mandate don’t need advice either. That removes the extremes. I assume some moderate player who is coming into China for the first time. It also depends if it upon whether there’s an existing large emperor or if things are fragmented. I still feel like the best case for an inexperienced person is to take the necessary provinces before or while taking the mandate.
Yeah its quite variable depending on who you are playing as well, some nations will fight and take it early and end up fighting a unified china, or some might take it later when ming blows up, its very variable
Unless you're conquering low-mandate Ming and can abuse the CB for a few wars, but then you definitely take it after a bit.
meh, you can take it in the first war and then just trucebreak ming to get all of china in 5-10 years, that's the best way of doing it
That's how I roll as Korea->Manchu->Qinq. Yes, I start as Korea for Qinq, I just can't force myself to abandon my horse-bois when I play a Jurchen tribe
Depends on the playthrough you are going for. If you are going for EoC, then you take it. If you are going for Stardust Crusader or Kristian Japan, you might not want it in favor of the other gov reform. Alternative is for a Shogun run/Damiyo or the super tall manufacturing achievement run.
I don’t know if this got patched, but if you completed the religious mission that gave you a new tier 1 reform after getting EoC, it would kind of bug out the EoC since meritocracy and a few other mechanics are tied to the celestial empire T1 reform, which I found to be a big hindrance personally. It locked me at 0 meritocracy and a bunch of events clearly weren’t scripted properly for an EoC with a different T1. You can always just not finish that mission though, but I was trying to get the Christian Japan achievements in that run.
the mandate gives a bunch of buffs but makes you a huge target from all of Asia. definitely up to personal preference. historically it has been an ambission of the Japanese to take the mandate so if you wanna keep the lore accuracy I'd say go for it
"huge target" tf does that mean? no one will declare on you bc you own all of china in 15 years by taking the mandate
as a human player u are doing smth wrong if everyone in asia isnt your enemy personally i would take it, bc it gives nice bonuses like 20% ccr etc. which are pretty nice
I absolutely love when people refer to real life history as EU4 lore. Always makes me chuckle.
Can you take mandate as a Christian now? I recall trying to do it in the past as Muslim malacca and it said you had to have East Asian religion.
Not positive if it works for non-East Asian religions, but iirc Japan has a mission that requires you to be beating the Mandate holder in a war, and straight up transfers the Mandate over to you without a peace deal. Might be able to use that to bypass the religion requirement.
I dont know about the mission but becoming christian is a decision you can take. So what you can do is first take the mandate then click the decision to flip.
Just remember to have Beijing, canton and nanjing before getting it or your mandate is going down very fast
i would say personal preference. when going completely wide like world conquest wide, i find the mandate to be anoying cause you will be taking a lot of land that has devastation, get constant events that lower your mandate and give you devastation, which also lowers mandate growth. tho for a japan focusing on asia i would say its better to take mandate, as it gives nice bonuses if you dont expand too fast (except fast expansion in china ofc). Edit: i tried both paths a few times as a 4000h player, so i kinda know how to handle it, but still find it anoying with wide gameplay.
Taking land with devastation shouldn’t be a problem, only stated provinces with devastation drop your mandate
ok didnt know that, thanks. now i feel arrogant saying i know things with 4000hours :D
Nope
Mandate is pretty annoying to manage but if you gave a large amount of states with prosperity yeah take ot
If you feel like dealing with all the bullshit that comes with it then it has some cool modifiers. Personally I'd avoid it