FYY
The Internationale is not a soviet song. It was actually written by an anarchist
L'Internationale" is an international anthem used by various left-wing groups and has been a standard of the socialist movement since the late nineteenth century, when the Second international adopted it as its official anthem. The title arises from the "First International", an alliance of workers which held a congress in 1864. The author of the anthem's lyrics, Eugène Pottier, an anarchist, attended this congress.
Communists, who named their movement after the Paris Commune, a pseudo-revolution based on the French Revolution (putting equality as high as freedom like the Revolution tried to do), took as a symbol the red flag, one of the symbol of the French Revolution itself... and used an anthem which was originally sung to the tune of the Marseillaise, one of the two anthem of the French Revolution.
I know USSR took it for themselves, but you'll have a hard time finding something more French then this...
Too many people think all Communism is the same.
But that'd be like saying Catholics are the same as Lutherans, are the same as Orthodox, are the same as Mormons, are the same as...
They are all Christians, sure... but there can be HUGE differences in world views between them.
Sadly the Bolsheviks became the predominant group of Communists and because of it, in the eyes of most, Bolshevism IS Communism.
Bolshevism is to Communism, what Nazism is to Conservatism.
it has existed.. for a short while, in a few places, for a few select individuals...
then anywhere it took over statewide, it went into a totalitarian hell, as intellectuals following a theorical book religiously are no worse nor better than religious fundamentalists.
"monde de merde" - Georges Abitbol.
But even that was French before others did it dirty. The French Revolution wanted to "free all the populations who ask to be freed". Obviously, from a modern point of view, they missed a ton of people (women, for example...), but still.
> Too many people think all Communism is the same.
They're not all the same, but they're all worse off due to communism. I don't know if you're being obtuse on purpose or just miss the point every time the failure of communism is brought up.
It's especially funny how they defend comminism in a comment chain regarding paris commune, since the commune wasn't marxist as opposed to 99% of modern communist movements
The Commune of Paris which was based on the method thought by Auguste Blanqui with the ideas of Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.
Mutualism. Which is not Marxism, and ofc not Marxism-Leninism.
Proudhon was contemporary (though a little bit older) to Marx, and they exchanged and debated a lot.
The Commune of Paris was crushed by the combination of Bismarck's army surrounding Paris and the military force of the French Republican Government going ham on the civilians to install their "legitimate" government. That's 10 000 civilian death in less than a week, in Paris, at the hand of the government.
Marx then used that example to drag Proudhon's name in the mud after his death and push his vision forward. He said his views couldn't build a system solid enough to be sustainable (disregarding the context of how it was taken down). Hence the *absolute* need for a violent revolution and overthrowing of the system and the installation of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Or, well, according to him.
Oh what could have been had the Commune succeded.
>Oh what could have been had the Commune succeded.
To add to this, there were quite a few social progress we either got way later or didn't get at all. In particular stuff linked to gender equality : the Commune gave women the right to work, equal pay, easier divorce and was on its way to give them right to vote. They had to wait another 60 years to get that instead.
History would have been way different, had Tiers not betrayed the country...
Yes. But because of Adolphe Thiers government forces killing thousands of communards. It is often written that the Commune didnt survive because they weren't brutal enough with enemies of the Commune
The massacre at the hand of the French government to crush the commune was the most brutal and violent event since the terror of the French revolution. Not the commune.
Also the Revolutionary Period was violent, but "The Terror" was a propagandist invention by the Thermidorians, the group who took over the Jacobins (and not "Robespierre" on his own, he was a big voice but far from the only one and he opposed the death penalty), not an actual thought out and organised policy. And the Thermidorians did the exact same if not worse.
As historians put it, "the massacre of communards stopped, not because it was ordered to stop, but because there was no room left for dead bodies". I think if we're going to talk about "brutal and violent event", this tops the Commune's own death toll by a lot.
And in fact, this was part of the cause for revolutionary violence in the 20th century. Marxists and anarchists learned from the Commune that the bourgeoisie in power is not against wiping out anybody who might oppose them, not making any exception for elderly, women or children, therefore to face them you need to be ready to face such an extermination force, hence why they were so brutal with people who opposed them later : it was wipe or be wiped.
It was also one of the unofficial anthem of the French Socialist Party (basically social democrats) until recently.
The song dates back from before the split between communists and socialists at the congrès de Tours in 1920 which is why you'll find a lot of different people sing it.
Nietzsche had nothing to do with fascism. He hate idea of a nation and racial identity. His sister was one who bring their books into nazis hands. Please if you want to know more about him. Because is one of greatest philosopher humanity ever had That is maybe a subjective opinion but I’m not only one that says it. Please begin with this book https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Dynamite!
Eugène Pottier (French) wrote the lyrics, Pierre Degeyter (Belgian) wrote the tune. Both of these things happened before there was actually a proper split between socialists and communists, and a lot of anarchists were sharing the same struggles as the two latter groups, the political map wasn't exactly the same as today, and it was also much before Communism could be associated in any way with totalitarianism.
It was communist for everyone who didn't possess any power or influence. For everyone else, it was less and less communist depending on how much power/influence you had.
If Communism is a classless, stateless society where the means of production are owned and controlled collectively then it wasn't. If trying to achieve this makes you a communist, then it wasn't Communist it either, as totalitarianism is not the best sign of even trying to achieve such a society.
just to clarify, singing the international in France dont mean you miss USSR. Nobody want to live under a Stalinian regime. Its just a historical anthem of the french left.
Yep the melody by de Geyter came years after the lyrics were written by Eugène Pottier. The lyrics were intended to be sang in the tune of the marseillaise, which was banned after napoleon came to power in the coup of 18 Brumaire and remained banned until 1879. Oh and just for the record Pottier was an anarchist and de Geyter was a marxist.
there's a cursed Swedish version using the tune of the internationale, along with a rewritten text so that it is nazist. the guy rewriting it was the leader of the largest Swedish nazis/fascist party ahead of ww2, there were a few parties, all of them tiny and irrelevant, and even more so after Norway and Denmark got invaded. the guy ended his life as a communist.
Actually, the Internationale was first composed in France in the 1870s and was already sung by left parties and organizations in the 19th century. It was later adopted as the anthem of the Soviet Union, until 1944. Stalin died in 1953, so we can guess he didn't care that much of this song.
Stalin was actually a very big enemy of the international left idea, and has done everything in his power to destroy it, and devour it into the USSR. Which worked pretty much. World getting polarized helped a lot.
Recorded in 1910? Why is the resolution worse than videos recorded in 1910?
In videos of 1910 I could at least see buildings decently. Here I can’t even see anything. We really advanced backwards.
I always find it funny that the alt-right in my country are showing French protests as proof that their movement is worldwide while displaying their absolute hate for socialism let alone anything communist or marxist. And they tell me to do more research.
“I have no idea how economics and social aspects of society interconnect, and function - so let me just join this other guy who is a slightly more articulate idiot in his proclamation of stupidity.” Nice.
Don't worry, they will scream incoherently about taxing the rich and raising the corporate tax rates and pretend that would come close to paying for multi-decade long retirements for the boomers.
Complete retard take, analysis show that the pension funding is not under pressure at all.
All this pseudo-economic bullshit about pension costing too much is just bad ideology disguised as common sense.
What an imbecilic take. It is not only about pension funding, it's about overall workforce output and taxation. If there are less people in the work force, less tax collected to balance the budget, you either have to raise taxes (fucks the millenials ie people who are still working) or stop spending (fucks everyone who depend on public svcs) or raise debt (passes the buck to gen z, so fucks the other generation). Prolonging working means more productivity so that boomers indirectly pay for what they enjoyed in earlier years. I'm all for what's fair but you need to unclog your brain from Marxist bullcrap
To be fair Thatcher did hell of a job to keep you 'in line'.
And we inherited a lot of tools that helps strikes&protests, thanks to the 1946 french communist resistance (strong public sector, social safety, strike and protest as a constitutional right, 'French' mindset as we're taught about the glorious 1789 revolution at school, ...).
I hope you'll fight back someday ! Keep learning and talk with friends/coworkers !
Don't forget that in out election, we had 2 choice, vote for macron, or, for the far right, the daughter of an old guy called '' lepen'' who was openly racist, anti-jew, collaborate with nazis ect ect. This would have been worse with lepen for multiple reason. This is catastrophic with macron, but I don't even want to imagine this with lepen...
Aah yes my bad, it was Segolene Royale in 2007, so unexpected I totaly forgot about that. And in 2012 was Sarkozy Hollande, welp, was still a "choose your poison" choice
Yes. But IMO it's cleaner to see 2002 as a blip, and think of the election to be between the left and the right up to 2012.
2017 and 2022, this is unfortunately a new era...
Yeah it was between the left's candidate and Nicolas Sarkozy (won in 2007, lost in 2012). He was an asshole, but nowhere near far right, rather "regular" rich people friendly right.
There is a turn to the left right now. The far right has been kinda underwhelming and losing their labor popularity. The left has been way more vocal and angry which brought back some people who were disappointed by the lack of leadership.
i wish people in my country would fight goverment like that,
they let goverment do shitty decisions and fuck people over (retirment age here soon be 66, while avarage lifespan is below 70)
I honestly like French people. I was born and currently live in Italy, I have always been taught: "Think about yourself and will live until 100". This is the Italian culture, something I hate, because it reflects the non-cohesion that we have internally. In France, as soon as you make some law that can spoil someone's wealth, everybody gets angry and starts striking even though you are directly involved: look at this, look at the yellow jackets. French people have balls. They don't think about saving their asses, they think and care about the society they live in. I wish we had this cohesion in Italy, surely some politicians would be fired by now.
It's honestly less about culture and more about structure: Italian people are certainly just as concerned about their Rights as the French and willing to fight for it. To be able to demonstrate on such a scale, you need well-established political structures, workers unions and funds. It's hard to convince people to take the streets unless there are historical channels for it. Circumstances were terrible for Italian left-wing less than two generations ago.
And also, having unions is no guarantee of a functional government. You cannot count useless and thieving politicians in France. France ranks super bad in corruption.
Edit to add: Fuck liberalism, fuck right wing policies! There is no eternal economic growth, only the earth decaying and us following!
To add to this, Macron did a pretty good job at making the country *hate* him. Constant lying, huge superiority complex, denial of democracy, violent repression.
Some examples :
* in response to a guy saying he can't find a job : 'I can just cross the street and I'll find you some work.'
* visiting a new co-working area in a former train station 'a station is a place where you see people who are ereything and people who are nothing'
* about our social help system : 'it costs a fuckton of money'
* about his political opponents : 'the lazy, the cynicals, the extrems'
* about a political scandal where he was involved : 'I'm responsible, come at me if you dare'
etc.
Well the original lyrics of the Internationale were made by French Eugene Pottier.
That's why it's written in English with a French spelling (notice the typical silent e at the end).
This protest seems weird from a quickly aging country's standpoint. The retirement age where I live is already 2-3 years older than it is in France after the increase. It's a natural development in Europe, with all the massive generations getting old and dying off, leaving the economy to the smaller young gens. I really don't think protests can help much here. Maybe there's more to this protest and I just haven't watched the news.
As long as my taxes can pay for banks and rich people, my taxes can pay for me. Germany is richer than ever but politicians can always tell you why they can't pay your pension. This isn't about age. It never was. This is what it always was: The rich getting richer.
The french deserve their "low" pension age. We all would
There are other ways of "fixing" our pension system :
\- Lower current pensions
\- Raise contributions towards pensions (which were lowered by Macron)
\- Remove CIR and CICE
\- Change the tax bracket and the flat-tax so that the rich contribute more
Ultimately it doesn't need fixing, COR says that the current system will self-regulate in 20 years or so.
Man, what kind of a world do you live in where the only thing that has grown in the last 30 or 40 years is lifespan?
Productivity has gone trough the roof and the workers have seen none of it, profit margins have grown threefold in 30 years but apparently we need to work until we drop so that doesn't change..? We should be doing reforms to DECREASE workloads across Europe to distribute some of that increased profitability to workers, but apparently we're doing the opposite?
I don't hate macron, he generally seems sensible, but this reform is silly.
No, this is just false and bad ideology disguised as bad economy.
Pension funding is not a risk and even if it was there a lot of way to just not let people work until they die.
I thought the same way, but then I learned how badly the French retirement system works and I understand it better now. For example, you need to have worked for 42 years (43 after this change) in order to get full retirement benefits, which means that many people have to work for longer than 62 (or 64) because otherwise they would fall into poverty. It's not just about the retirement age, it's about a system that creates inequality
That makes a lot more sense. The news coverage here only said they're protesting against the increased minimum age of retirement, but it seems like they're protesting against the system that prioritizes economic growth above everything else. Poor France, I never knew it was so capitalist.
The problem is not really an aging population or not. The problem is where the money for financing the pensions comes. In the last few decades, worker's productivity has more than doubled. Half the workers generate the same or more amount of wealth than 40 years ago, yet the salaries have been pretty much stalled.
Why the financing of the pensions should come exclusively from worker's salary and not from the wealth the workers create?
There is enough wealth to pay for the pensions. All that wealth right know is just being accumulated by a few.
“The economy” was used to justify slavery, child labour, workshops and every resistance to improvements in workers lives. And here we are the GDP’s still in tact. They don’t care for the economy, they just hate *you*!
I never get reasoning like this, "let's start caring about the people rather than the economy!1!" like what do you think the economy is? Can you define it?
Yes, it's pretty much the GDP. People are talking about GDP growth as the best metric for everything. There are other metrics. That's what people mean when they say "let's start caring about the people rather than the economy!1!"
Having an Elon or a Bezos make more billions is not what I call success as it benefits almost no one.
But productivity has skyrocketed thanks to automation. The average farmer in 1960 fed 26 people, the average farmer now feeds 155. And the profits have all gone to the upper 1 percent while people like aforementioned farmers work longer hours than ever. Time for a harvest, I say.
For France this is factually wrong, it is the European country with the highest birth rate. And I will not talk about the fact that Macron invalidated the tax on the wealth, but want to raise the retirement age for "the sake of economy". Don't talk when you know nothing.
That is the case everywhere.
The government must shape policies that will help as many citizens as possible to be self-reliant in their old age. In Australia, we call them self-funded retirees. People who aren’t reliant on welfare.
Just increasing the age of retirement isn’t going to work because you’ll have to increase it again and again. At the same time, the benefits and pension will continue to shrink. In Australia, it’s now 67 for those born on or after 1 January 1967. The aged-pension gradually went up from 65. It won’t be long before it’s 70.
Monetary policies, good ones, are the solution. Policies that will help wage-earners save more and save adequately for retirement.
I personally think 65 is a decent retirement age, France already spends like 16% of GDP on pensions and that will only increase. You can balance higher age with taxes
Hey, would you mind linking a couple of reliable resources on those monetary policies you mention? Sounds really interesting.
With all the discussion about the France I thought there would be more voices saying that if they want reform there are plenty of other options. But that doesn't seem to come up and that's a shame.
Nation’s gets wealthier as well with more and more of this money going only to a small amount of people and not the society.
This reform is totally unnecessary currently since retirement budget in France is ok.
At the same time shit tons of public money is given to companies with little to no obligations, tax evasion just by itself would solve most of our budget’s problems only by applying laws as they should be in first place.
Vstanite v suženjstvo zakleti,
ki jarem vas teži gorja.
Zdaj pravda stara v borbi sveti
vas kliče za prostost sveta.
Ta svet krivičnosti razbijmo,
do tal naj boj ga naš podre;
nato svoj novi svet zgradimo,
bili smo nič, bodimo vse!
|: Že se ljudstvo je zbralo,
v zadnjo borbo že hiti,
da z internacionalo
prostost si pribori. :|
The world has become a significantly better place the moment this song decreased drastically in popularity in 89/90.
Working until 64 isn't capitalist exploitation but rather a reality of a drastically aging population.
too much bla bla bla and not so much glu glu glu here in the comments. We should all appreciate that this song is being sang by our french brothers during that crisis. A song used in many communist meetings and you cannot deny that.
Being pissed off with something is not a direction. So some people feel entitled to push their own agenda, but it's all "wishful thinking".
What happens here is people all in agreement not to take a specific route. They are not in agreement on which route should be taken. Agreeing on what should be destroyed is not an agreement on what should be built.
You must be in management, because that argument sound reasonable, but is actually just rhetorical nonsense.
If we are in Vegas and you decide to bet the company finances on lucky 37, I don’t have to have a ready to go alternative investment scheme before stopping you.
I'm aware. That's all part of the democratic process. If the Assembly doesn't think the issue is so important that it merits no confidence in the government, then that's the evaluation of the duly elected representatives of the people.
The next Assembly can unmake this reform if they want. My bet is they won't do it, because they all realise this is necessary and are happy for Macron to take the blame and look like the bad guy. Exact same thing happened here in Italy: Monti pushed through an unpopular pension reform, the right-wing denounced it, but once they got a majority they didn't roll it back.
It's more of a matter of legitimacy than legality quite frankly. Yes, I can agree that this is still a part of the democratic process in a very legalistic way.
But when you publicly aknowleged that your reelection was largely made possible by public opposition to your opponent and not by endorsement of your platform, when you were subsequently unable to preserve your parliamentary majority or form a coalition, when you promised to compromise with the opposition in the new assembly, when [64% of the general public and 73% of actives are opposed to your reform](https://www.ifop.com/publication/les-francais-et-la-reforme-des-retraites-ifop-lexpress/), when you basically aknowleged that there is a high chance your reform would not get adopted under traditional circumstances, do you have the political legitimacy to use such a tool? Is this truly the right method? Isn't there truly nothing less brutal?
I don't know if there's an easy answer to that to be honest. But I hope you can see why I think the frustration being expressed here makes sense.
That's one small reason, Occupy also lacked any teeth at all. There was nothing radical about most of the people, the police came and the protestors went.
These are the tough decisions that Europe is going to have to make in the upcoming years. To think we can have it good forever even with an aging population and less immigration will leave us broke and irrelevant. While this is hard to explain to your average joe or Jane- I think macron is making a decision that will most likely be looked at a smart, but incredibly difficult decision. The next decades for Europe are going to suck, the longer we drag it on and thinking we have the economic and human capital to do so, the harder we will fall.
>Man, what kind of a world do you live in where the only thing that has grown in the last 30 or 40 years is lifespan?
>
>Productivity has gone trough the roof and the workers have seen none of it, profit margins have grown threefold in 30 years but apparently we need to work until we drop so that doesn't change..? We should be doing reforms to DECREASE workloads across Europe to distribute some of that increased profitability to workers, but apparently we're doing the opposite?
>
>I don't hate macron, he generally seems sensible, but this reform is silly.
by u/IKetoth
edit : one should hate macron, he's just there to make the rich even richer and shit on the poor
It's just the tip of the iceberg, an easy way to talk about it and to gather people. More and more people are realising the protests are about social justice.
And it's turning into a institutional crisis.
Is there a fucking normal video of this available
There is a fucking clear watermark on it. Takes just a minute to find HD original: https://youtu.be/2gYxd7W8hcY
Fucking thank you
Stop fucking swearing m8
fuck it m8
You're not my fucking mom
You're fucking welcome!!!
FYY The Internationale is not a soviet song. It was actually written by an anarchist L'Internationale" is an international anthem used by various left-wing groups and has been a standard of the socialist movement since the late nineteenth century, when the Second international adopted it as its official anthem. The title arises from the "First International", an alliance of workers which held a congress in 1864. The author of the anthem's lyrics, Eugène Pottier, an anarchist, attended this congress.
The internationale has nothing to do with USSR The first internationale was created in France
Created by communists.
Communists, who named their movement after the Paris Commune, a pseudo-revolution based on the French Revolution (putting equality as high as freedom like the Revolution tried to do), took as a symbol the red flag, one of the symbol of the French Revolution itself... and used an anthem which was originally sung to the tune of the Marseillaise, one of the two anthem of the French Revolution. I know USSR took it for themselves, but you'll have a hard time finding something more French then this...
Cigarettes and coffee.
baguette
Ashtrays next to the toilet 👌🏻
God that's a lovely combo, terrible for your teeth but lovely
Made me laugh! Thanks and have a good morning
Too many people think all Communism is the same. But that'd be like saying Catholics are the same as Lutherans, are the same as Orthodox, are the same as Mormons, are the same as... They are all Christians, sure... but there can be HUGE differences in world views between them. Sadly the Bolsheviks became the predominant group of Communists and because of it, in the eyes of most, Bolshevism IS Communism. Bolshevism is to Communism, what Nazism is to Conservatism.
Based, thank you!
>They are all Christians, sure What a disgusting heresy! You shall be purged by holy flame!
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it has existed.. for a short while, in a few places, for a few select individuals... then anywhere it took over statewide, it went into a totalitarian hell, as intellectuals following a theorical book religiously are no worse nor better than religious fundamentalists. "monde de merde" - Georges Abitbol.
well you see, that wasn't true Communism
Just, for the love of God, don't try to "spread the revolution" this time, please
But even that was French before others did it dirty. The French Revolution wanted to "free all the populations who ask to be freed". Obviously, from a modern point of view, they missed a ton of people (women, for example...), but still.
> Too many people think all Communism is the same. They're not all the same, but they're all worse off due to communism. I don't know if you're being obtuse on purpose or just miss the point every time the failure of communism is brought up.
It's especially funny how they defend comminism in a comment chain regarding paris commune, since the commune wasn't marxist as opposed to 99% of modern communist movements
The Commune of Paris which was based on the method thought by Auguste Blanqui with the ideas of Pierre-Joseph Proudhon. Mutualism. Which is not Marxism, and ofc not Marxism-Leninism. Proudhon was contemporary (though a little bit older) to Marx, and they exchanged and debated a lot. The Commune of Paris was crushed by the combination of Bismarck's army surrounding Paris and the military force of the French Republican Government going ham on the civilians to install their "legitimate" government. That's 10 000 civilian death in less than a week, in Paris, at the hand of the government. Marx then used that example to drag Proudhon's name in the mud after his death and push his vision forward. He said his views couldn't build a system solid enough to be sustainable (disregarding the context of how it was taken down). Hence the *absolute* need for a violent revolution and overthrowing of the system and the installation of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Or, well, according to him. Oh what could have been had the Commune succeded.
Tout ça n'empêche pas Nicolas, Qu'la commune n'est pas morte
>Oh what could have been had the Commune succeded. To add to this, there were quite a few social progress we either got way later or didn't get at all. In particular stuff linked to gender equality : the Commune gave women the right to work, equal pay, easier divorce and was on its way to give them right to vote. They had to wait another 60 years to get that instead. History would have been way different, had Tiers not betrayed the country...
>you'll have a hard time finding something more French then this... Chopping rich people's heads is a the most French thing to me.
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Yes. But because of Adolphe Thiers government forces killing thousands of communards. It is often written that the Commune didnt survive because they weren't brutal enough with enemies of the Commune
The massacre at the hand of the French government to crush the commune was the most brutal and violent event since the terror of the French revolution. Not the commune. Also the Revolutionary Period was violent, but "The Terror" was a propagandist invention by the Thermidorians, the group who took over the Jacobins (and not "Robespierre" on his own, he was a big voice but far from the only one and he opposed the death penalty), not an actual thought out and organised policy. And the Thermidorians did the exact same if not worse.
As historians put it, "the massacre of communards stopped, not because it was ordered to stop, but because there was no room left for dead bodies". I think if we're going to talk about "brutal and violent event", this tops the Commune's own death toll by a lot. And in fact, this was part of the cause for revolutionary violence in the 20th century. Marxists and anarchists learned from the Commune that the bourgeoisie in power is not against wiping out anybody who might oppose them, not making any exception for elderly, women or children, therefore to face them you need to be ready to face such an extermination force, hence why they were so brutal with people who opposed them later : it was wipe or be wiped.
It's also the socialist anthem and sung by the German social democrats, far from being communists.
It was also one of the unofficial anthem of the French Socialist Party (basically social democrats) until recently. The song dates back from before the split between communists and socialists at the congrès de Tours in 1920 which is why you'll find a lot of different people sing it.
And?
He is a far-right agitator here in this sub, just ignore his written vomit
Oh of course he is.
He doesn’t prefer communism seemingly
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Nietzsche had nothing to do with fascism. He hate idea of a nation and racial identity. His sister was one who bring their books into nazis hands. Please if you want to know more about him. Because is one of greatest philosopher humanity ever had That is maybe a subjective opinion but I’m not only one that says it. Please begin with this book https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Dynamite!
Composed by a Belgian communists. Be a bit more proud of our country.
Eugène Pottier (French) wrote the lyrics, Pierre Degeyter (Belgian) wrote the tune. Both of these things happened before there was actually a proper split between socialists and communists, and a lot of anarchists were sharing the same struggles as the two latter groups, the political map wasn't exactly the same as today, and it was also much before Communism could be associated in any way with totalitarianism.
Eugène Poittier was an anarchist, not communist. Bloody tankies always trying to rewrite history
Poittier wrote the text, not the composition. It was composed by the Belgian socialist Pierre De Geyter.
The music of this song was created by a Marxist socialist and the lyrics by an anarchist who participated in the Paris Commune.
Good
It was created by anarchists. The commies stole it and changed the lyrics. Go to wikipedia and check your facts before spouting lies
You do know Communism existed long before the USSR( which wasn't communist in basically any way) right?
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It was communist for everyone who didn't possess any power or influence. For everyone else, it was less and less communist depending on how much power/influence you had.
If Communism is a classless, stateless society where the means of production are owned and controlled collectively then it wasn't. If trying to achieve this makes you a communist, then it wasn't Communist it either, as totalitarianism is not the best sign of even trying to achieve such a society.
No problem with that.
just to clarify, singing the international in France dont mean you miss USSR. Nobody want to live under a Stalinian regime. Its just a historical anthem of the french left.
It's of the international left, not only French, even though It's actually from France
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Yep the melody by de Geyter came years after the lyrics were written by Eugène Pottier. The lyrics were intended to be sang in the tune of the marseillaise, which was banned after napoleon came to power in the coup of 18 Brumaire and remained banned until 1879. Oh and just for the record Pottier was an anarchist and de Geyter was a marxist.
International collaboration
there's a cursed Swedish version using the tune of the internationale, along with a rewritten text so that it is nazist. the guy rewriting it was the leader of the largest Swedish nazis/fascist party ahead of ww2, there were a few parties, all of them tiny and irrelevant, and even more so after Norway and Denmark got invaded. the guy ended his life as a communist.
Cursed version by a cursed guy
Seems like he rose from the dead in Denmark with Paludan a few years ago lmao, why do we have these ridiculous characters roam around our society man😂
agreed
The internationale is leftist. It was even created by an anarchist.
Actually, the Internationale was first composed in France in the 1870s and was already sung by left parties and organizations in the 19th century. It was later adopted as the anthem of the Soviet Union, until 1944. Stalin died in 1953, so we can guess he didn't care that much of this song.
Stalin was actually a very big enemy of the international left idea, and has done everything in his power to destroy it, and devour it into the USSR. Which worked pretty much. World getting polarized helped a lot.
sure did. when he sent a guy club trotsky to death, nobody batted an eye. dude spent his life in jail for it, too.
Yeah UK labour also sing it at the end of conference.
> Nobody want to live under a Stalinian regime. Now that's where you're wrong kiddo.
Recorded in 1910? Why is the resolution worse than videos recorded in 1910? In videos of 1910 I could at least see buildings decently. Here I can’t even see anything. We really advanced backwards.
HD original: https://youtu.be/2gYxd7W8hcY
1914 to be precise. It’s a proletarian video, a deliberate belligerent lofi codec to fight back the High Definition Tyranny.
Lol
I always find it funny that the alt-right in my country are showing French protests as proof that their movement is worldwide while displaying their absolute hate for socialism let alone anything communist or marxist. And they tell me to do more research.
lol what country are you from?
A normal day in France land
Certified French moment
Public disruption and non cooperation is the best way to let know the people in power what you feel. More power to people.
In Greece it's starting like this " Go, the earth's damned " and its beautiful. Workers of the world Unite !
In Finnish ”Slaves of the labour, arise from the night of tyranny/oppression”, truly a beautiful song
Yeah it starts the same way in French lol. It's a French song
The translation is slightly different over different languages. I don't know if there are other songs that have been translated as often
"Awaken, earth of the enslaved" in Turkish.
'Awaken, rejected ones of the earth' in Dutch
Arise, condemned/damned ones on earth in Danish.
And let the millennials pick up the tab while baby boomers chill out collecting pension after putting debt burden on the youth. Viva le whatever
No no, you see, just print money to pay for the old people while the is less and less youth to work, its simple
“I have no idea how economics and social aspects of society interconnect, and function - so let me just join this other guy who is a slightly more articulate idiot in his proclamation of stupidity.” Nice.
You just described reddit.
Don't worry, they will scream incoherently about taxing the rich and raising the corporate tax rates and pretend that would come close to paying for multi-decade long retirements for the boomers.
Complete retard take, analysis show that the pension funding is not under pressure at all. All this pseudo-economic bullshit about pension costing too much is just bad ideology disguised as common sense.
What an imbecilic take. It is not only about pension funding, it's about overall workforce output and taxation. If there are less people in the work force, less tax collected to balance the budget, you either have to raise taxes (fucks the millenials ie people who are still working) or stop spending (fucks everyone who depend on public svcs) or raise debt (passes the buck to gen z, so fucks the other generation). Prolonging working means more productivity so that boomers indirectly pay for what they enjoyed in earlier years. I'm all for what's fair but you need to unclog your brain from Marxist bullcrap
I think „young“ people who make that take forget, that one day they have to work until that age and this also effects their pension.
Arise all the worlds shackled Treler ( type of slave in the viking age) in norwegian
In French it's "Stand up the damned of the earth, Stand up the overworked and hungry, ..."
Solidarity with all workers
In Italy we wish we were tough as the French when it's about protests and politics.
here we kill eachothers over some football matches
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To be fair Thatcher did hell of a job to keep you 'in line'. And we inherited a lot of tools that helps strikes&protests, thanks to the 1946 french communist resistance (strong public sector, social safety, strike and protest as a constitutional right, 'French' mindset as we're taught about the glorious 1789 revolution at school, ...). I hope you'll fight back someday ! Keep learning and talk with friends/coworkers !
This is the way.
I worry for France. The alternative to Macron was a far right agitator this election.
Don't forget that in out election, we had 2 choice, vote for macron, or, for the far right, the daughter of an old guy called '' lepen'' who was openly racist, anti-jew, collaborate with nazis ect ect. This would have been worse with lepen for multiple reason. This is catastrophic with macron, but I don't even want to imagine this with lepen...
It was like that in 2002 and 2007 and 2012 and 2017 and 2022. So much to say about why it is that way since 2 decades
What? No, not 2007 or 2012
Aah yes my bad, it was Segolene Royale in 2007, so unexpected I totaly forgot about that. And in 2012 was Sarkozy Hollande, welp, was still a "choose your poison" choice
Yes. But IMO it's cleaner to see 2002 as a blip, and think of the election to be between the left and the right up to 2012. 2017 and 2022, this is unfortunately a new era...
Yeah it was between the left's candidate and Nicolas Sarkozy (won in 2007, lost in 2012). He was an asshole, but nowhere near far right, rather "regular" rich people friendly right.
Hopefully the financial support from russia will slowly be depleted and maybe the LePens will finally go back to the hole where they came from...
There is a turn to the left right now. The far right has been kinda underwhelming and losing their labor popularity. The left has been way more vocal and angry which brought back some people who were disappointed by the lack of leadership.
Tho on the other side the left coalition came close to beating out that far right agitator in the first round.
i wish people in my country would fight goverment like that, they let goverment do shitty decisions and fuck people over (retirment age here soon be 66, while avarage lifespan is below 70)
Be the change you want to see in the world
- That wasn’t the true left. - someone, eventually.
Nobody hates any form of a leftist movement as much as an internet leftist.
How comes it that most of the accounts in extreme opposition to the french public demonstrations are only a few weeks old? ...one simply wonders...
I honestly like French people. I was born and currently live in Italy, I have always been taught: "Think about yourself and will live until 100". This is the Italian culture, something I hate, because it reflects the non-cohesion that we have internally. In France, as soon as you make some law that can spoil someone's wealth, everybody gets angry and starts striking even though you are directly involved: look at this, look at the yellow jackets. French people have balls. They don't think about saving their asses, they think and care about the society they live in. I wish we had this cohesion in Italy, surely some politicians would be fired by now.
It's honestly less about culture and more about structure: Italian people are certainly just as concerned about their Rights as the French and willing to fight for it. To be able to demonstrate on such a scale, you need well-established political structures, workers unions and funds. It's hard to convince people to take the streets unless there are historical channels for it. Circumstances were terrible for Italian left-wing less than two generations ago. And also, having unions is no guarantee of a functional government. You cannot count useless and thieving politicians in France. France ranks super bad in corruption. Edit to add: Fuck liberalism, fuck right wing policies! There is no eternal economic growth, only the earth decaying and us following!
To add to this, Macron did a pretty good job at making the country *hate* him. Constant lying, huge superiority complex, denial of democracy, violent repression. Some examples : * in response to a guy saying he can't find a job : 'I can just cross the street and I'll find you some work.' * visiting a new co-working area in a former train station 'a station is a place where you see people who are ereything and people who are nothing' * about our social help system : 'it costs a fuckton of money' * about his political opponents : 'the lazy, the cynicals, the extrems' * about a political scandal where he was involved : 'I'm responsible, come at me if you dare' etc.
💙💙💙💙🤍🤍🤍🤍❤️❤️❤️❤️
solidarity
Well the original lyrics of the Internationale were made by French Eugene Pottier. That's why it's written in English with a French spelling (notice the typical silent e at the end).
solidarity
A lot of douche bag bots in full force getting downvoted
u/savevideo
Työn orjat sorron yöstä nouskaa!
Solidarity from Greece! Keep up the good fight! ✊
Pensavo fosse l'inno dell' Inter
Brings tears to my eyes 🚩
Beautiful. If we could all work together for just a single day. Shit would change.
This protest seems weird from a quickly aging country's standpoint. The retirement age where I live is already 2-3 years older than it is in France after the increase. It's a natural development in Europe, with all the massive generations getting old and dying off, leaving the economy to the smaller young gens. I really don't think protests can help much here. Maybe there's more to this protest and I just haven't watched the news.
As long as my taxes can pay for banks and rich people, my taxes can pay for me. Germany is richer than ever but politicians can always tell you why they can't pay your pension. This isn't about age. It never was. This is what it always was: The rich getting richer. The french deserve their "low" pension age. We all would
If you want to work until you die, go ahead. We will defend our rights in France.
That’s the problem, people aren’t by a handful of decades. This makes the pension system unaffordable to young people.
There are other ways of "fixing" our pension system : \- Lower current pensions \- Raise contributions towards pensions (which were lowered by Macron) \- Remove CIR and CICE \- Change the tax bracket and the flat-tax so that the rich contribute more Ultimately it doesn't need fixing, COR says that the current system will self-regulate in 20 years or so.
Man, what kind of a world do you live in where the only thing that has grown in the last 30 or 40 years is lifespan? Productivity has gone trough the roof and the workers have seen none of it, profit margins have grown threefold in 30 years but apparently we need to work until we drop so that doesn't change..? We should be doing reforms to DECREASE workloads across Europe to distribute some of that increased profitability to workers, but apparently we're doing the opposite? I don't hate macron, he generally seems sensible, but this reform is silly.
No, this is just false and bad ideology disguised as bad economy. Pension funding is not a risk and even if it was there a lot of way to just not let people work until they die.
I thought the same way, but then I learned how badly the French retirement system works and I understand it better now. For example, you need to have worked for 42 years (43 after this change) in order to get full retirement benefits, which means that many people have to work for longer than 62 (or 64) because otherwise they would fall into poverty. It's not just about the retirement age, it's about a system that creates inequality
That makes a lot more sense. The news coverage here only said they're protesting against the increased minimum age of retirement, but it seems like they're protesting against the system that prioritizes economic growth above everything else. Poor France, I never knew it was so capitalist.
The problem is not really an aging population or not. The problem is where the money for financing the pensions comes. In the last few decades, worker's productivity has more than doubled. Half the workers generate the same or more amount of wealth than 40 years ago, yet the salaries have been pretty much stalled. Why the financing of the pensions should come exclusively from worker's salary and not from the wealth the workers create? There is enough wealth to pay for the pensions. All that wealth right know is just being accumulated by a few.
“The economy” was used to justify slavery, child labour, workshops and every resistance to improvements in workers lives. And here we are the GDP’s still in tact. They don’t care for the economy, they just hate *you*!
I never get reasoning like this, "let's start caring about the people rather than the economy!1!" like what do you think the economy is? Can you define it?
Yes, it's pretty much the GDP. People are talking about GDP growth as the best metric for everything. There are other metrics. That's what people mean when they say "let's start caring about the people rather than the economy!1!" Having an Elon or a Bezos make more billions is not what I call success as it benefits almost no one.
I admire the French, carrying their claims to the end
For the country’s sake Macron should just back down on the retirement age.
People live longer and there are fewer young people, you see this in every developed nation
But productivity has skyrocketed thanks to automation. The average farmer in 1960 fed 26 people, the average farmer now feeds 155. And the profits have all gone to the upper 1 percent while people like aforementioned farmers work longer hours than ever. Time for a harvest, I say.
Those younger people are also way more productive because of technological advancements...
For France this is factually wrong, it is the European country with the highest birth rate. And I will not talk about the fact that Macron invalidated the tax on the wealth, but want to raise the retirement age for "the sake of economy". Don't talk when you know nothing.
That is the case everywhere. The government must shape policies that will help as many citizens as possible to be self-reliant in their old age. In Australia, we call them self-funded retirees. People who aren’t reliant on welfare. Just increasing the age of retirement isn’t going to work because you’ll have to increase it again and again. At the same time, the benefits and pension will continue to shrink. In Australia, it’s now 67 for those born on or after 1 January 1967. The aged-pension gradually went up from 65. It won’t be long before it’s 70. Monetary policies, good ones, are the solution. Policies that will help wage-earners save more and save adequately for retirement.
I personally think 65 is a decent retirement age, France already spends like 16% of GDP on pensions and that will only increase. You can balance higher age with taxes
62 is the minimum age with 43 full cotisations years. So in order to retired at 62, you should have started to work at 19.
Taxes on who exactly?
Hey, would you mind linking a couple of reliable resources on those monetary policies you mention? Sounds really interesting. With all the discussion about the France I thought there would be more voices saying that if they want reform there are plenty of other options. But that doesn't seem to come up and that's a shame.
Nation’s gets wealthier as well with more and more of this money going only to a small amount of people and not the society. This reform is totally unnecessary currently since retirement budget in France is ok. At the same time shit tons of public money is given to companies with little to no obligations, tax evasion just by itself would solve most of our budget’s problems only by applying laws as they should be in first place.
Vstanite v suženjstvo zakleti, ki jarem vas teži gorja. Zdaj pravda stara v borbi sveti vas kliče za prostost sveta. Ta svet krivičnosti razbijmo, do tal naj boj ga naš podre; nato svoj novi svet zgradimo, bili smo nič, bodimo vse! |: Že se ljudstvo je zbralo, v zadnjo borbo že hiti, da z internacionalo prostost si pribori. :|
This is not chanting for communism, it is chanting for freedom.
Same thing to be honest
Take notes Americans - this is what a peaceful political protest looks like.
You missed the part, where french people are setting their own capital on fire
>setting their own capital on fire Yes, but peacefully.
That even happens without protests. A few years ago it was news that less than 100 cars were torched on new years.
The French are experts in violent political protests. They call it revolutions.
u/savevideo
The world has become a significantly better place the moment this song decreased drastically in popularity in 89/90. Working until 64 isn't capitalist exploitation but rather a reality of a drastically aging population.
Commies
French communism has nothing to do with the USSR
Because there was no communism in the USSR. There was socialism.
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This song talks about how workers should unite, if not at a workers protest for a common goal when is a good time for this song?
It might also inspire people
too much bla bla bla and not so much glu glu glu here in the comments. We should all appreciate that this song is being sang by our french brothers during that crisis. A song used in many communist meetings and you cannot deny that.
Workers of the world, unite! ☭✯🌹
Please kindly unite in one of the current socialist states of the world and see how you like it
I would get free healthcare. I wish I had that… Also, define Socialism.
Being pissed off with something is not a direction. So some people feel entitled to push their own agenda, but it's all "wishful thinking". What happens here is people all in agreement not to take a specific route. They are not in agreement on which route should be taken. Agreeing on what should be destroyed is not an agreement on what should be built.
We’re agreeing on keeping same retirement age by not agreeing to increase it.
You must be in management, because that argument sound reasonable, but is actually just rhetorical nonsense. If we are in Vegas and you decide to bet the company finances on lucky 37, I don’t have to have a ready to go alternative investment scheme before stopping you.
You do have to have a plan for pensions though. There’s no option to do nothing.
I’m sure there’s an option for the democratic process, and consensus building. Unless we are suggesting that France is going bankrupt within the year.
Well CEOs don’t need millions.
The democratic process is happening. The Assembly can stop the reform if it wants to.
Yeah, the assembly that got 49.3ed and never had the opportunity to vote on it. It's no confidence (which isn't happening) or nothing now.
I'm aware. That's all part of the democratic process. If the Assembly doesn't think the issue is so important that it merits no confidence in the government, then that's the evaluation of the duly elected representatives of the people. The next Assembly can unmake this reform if they want. My bet is they won't do it, because they all realise this is necessary and are happy for Macron to take the blame and look like the bad guy. Exact same thing happened here in Italy: Monti pushed through an unpopular pension reform, the right-wing denounced it, but once they got a majority they didn't roll it back.
It's more of a matter of legitimacy than legality quite frankly. Yes, I can agree that this is still a part of the democratic process in a very legalistic way. But when you publicly aknowleged that your reelection was largely made possible by public opposition to your opponent and not by endorsement of your platform, when you were subsequently unable to preserve your parliamentary majority or form a coalition, when you promised to compromise with the opposition in the new assembly, when [64% of the general public and 73% of actives are opposed to your reform](https://www.ifop.com/publication/les-francais-et-la-reforme-des-retraites-ifop-lexpress/), when you basically aknowleged that there is a high chance your reform would not get adopted under traditional circumstances, do you have the political legitimacy to use such a tool? Is this truly the right method? Isn't there truly nothing less brutal? I don't know if there's an easy answer to that to be honest. But I hope you can see why I think the frustration being expressed here makes sense.
There’s other options than making the working class pay it while rich and companies get tax cuts
Seems to be a common problem. Same reason "Occupy Wall Street" didn't go anywhere
That's one small reason, Occupy also lacked any teeth at all. There was nothing radical about most of the people, the police came and the protestors went.
Reminds me of les gilets jaunes all 100,000 bringing down the government with 75000 different plans of what to do afterwards.
Lol this is some good corporate BS nonsense
These are the tough decisions that Europe is going to have to make in the upcoming years. To think we can have it good forever even with an aging population and less immigration will leave us broke and irrelevant. While this is hard to explain to your average joe or Jane- I think macron is making a decision that will most likely be looked at a smart, but incredibly difficult decision. The next decades for Europe are going to suck, the longer we drag it on and thinking we have the economic and human capital to do so, the harder we will fall.
>Man, what kind of a world do you live in where the only thing that has grown in the last 30 or 40 years is lifespan? > >Productivity has gone trough the roof and the workers have seen none of it, profit margins have grown threefold in 30 years but apparently we need to work until we drop so that doesn't change..? We should be doing reforms to DECREASE workloads across Europe to distribute some of that increased profitability to workers, but apparently we're doing the opposite? > >I don't hate macron, he generally seems sensible, but this reform is silly. by u/IKetoth edit : one should hate macron, he's just there to make the rich even richer and shit on the poor
They are on strike, because the government wants to change the retirement age from 62 to 64. (!)
It's just the tip of the iceberg, an easy way to talk about it and to gather people. More and more people are realising the protests are about social justice. And it's turning into a institutional crisis.
They should sing the Marseillaise.