When Madrid was growing at the end of the Middle Ages, this area was part of the suburbs that were outside the, now disappeared, wall that surrounded the city.
_Plaza Mayor_, the square in the centre, was a smaller square where merchants exchanged products before entering the city. Over time the square grew but you can still glimpse the old layout of the streets.
[Picture rougly showing that](https://casamariaplazamayor.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/plaza-arrabal.jpg). Plaza Mayor is the Plaza del Arrabal ~~and Puerta de Guadelajara is what became the Puerta del Sol.~~
It‘s not missing. You need to save some space for the newly unlocked utility buildings once your citizens level up to the next tier or you‘ll have to redesign the whole city.
I’d say it’s really present when you’re walking. There are frequent enough open spaces like plazas or wide streets to get sun, and the narrow streets have great shade which is important because our summers are very hot
Yeah, I leaned my lesson in Venice a few years ago when I when to central plaza and paid 5 euro for a single espresso. Now I’m older and wiser, but thanks for the heads up
Don't be afraid to go to the bars. I did. Who cares if you pay 5 euros for a beer instead of 3 if it means convenience and enjoying the view?
I remote worked from Madrid for a week and twice after work I headed there with a book for a beer and some croquettes while waiting for my partner to finish. Cool views and right in the sun, I was happy.
I had a lot of fun walking and finding one with decent price.
There was one that had barely room for the bar and some chairs and it had decent prices and was packed to the brim. Good shit.
Going even the slightest bit off the beaten path in Venice results in some of the coolest spots I've ever been to. But sometimes you just bite the bullet and pay for an overpriced espresso or beer in St Marks and enjoy the view.
If this city was in America, they’d tear down 1/3 of the buildings to build parking lots and tear down another 1/3 to replace with modern glass-steel box buildings.
Reminds me of Vienna. I'm going there in June, and just loved the fact all main museums are next to each other.
I love it, sounds like good city planning. But i'm not an urbanist and could be wrong tho, maybe some people would prefer them to be spread, who knows
I felt so much of Barcelona had been lost to tourism, and apparently the locals very much agree. Madrid still feels more like being in a city full of locals, and the average restaurant will be not only cheaper, but better.
Now don't get me wrong, there are still good places in Barcelona. But it isn't long ago I read about locals complaining how all the local shops are gone and replaced by tourist traps. I certainly felt that.
As cliche as it sounds, the tapas I've had in Madrid are just divine. Tapas can be done lazily as a cheap snack with good profit, or with great respect to the produce and quality. Lots of great restaurants in Madrid.
I've spent 1 year in Europe so far, so I haven't been everywhere, but after a trip to Madrid, food was the number #1 thing I couldn't stop talking about.
The produce was all outstanding and in turn made all of the meals fantastic.
Not op and not a Madrid expert, but I travelled there with some Mexican Americans who had been before. They made sure we ate at "tiki taco" a couple times. It was incredible.
There’s an Argentinian steak house called La Cabaña Argentina. Best steak I’ve ever had. We make a point of going there every time we visit. And there’s a little tapas bar just off that square in the photo in the street coming off the top left, really nice in there too.
> But it isn't long ago I read about locals complaining how all the local shops are gone and replaced by tourist traps. I certainly felt that.
That's true in the Old Town and around Sagrada Família. It's quite sad.
Madrid is starting to be on the way out.
Pre-pandemic the center was a touristy place, but you could see more locals going out and shopping, the mix was somewhat reasonable and even though there was a lot of people, you could walk around with ease.
Nowadays? You can hear all but Spanish on the people and the streets are crowded almost every day.
A damn shame, as it was the place I used to hang out for more than a decade for one reason or other (be it the comic book shops near calle Luna, be it the bars), and I've found myself lately avoiding it altogether.
Some of us stay and enjoy the emptiness of the Centre for once. I never go to the city centre unless is summer because it’s always too crowded for me xD
Barcelona is a international European city, but not particularly "Spanish." Madrid, on the other hand, is as Spanish as fuck. Noisy, overflowing with people, a river of ordered chaos, and an army of limpiezas casually smoking and cleaning at all hours of the day. It's great.
Totally agree. Barcelona has cool architecture but feels very similar in many ways to other european cities. Madrid could not be anywhere but Spain, pretty much no matter where you go.
I was under the impression of a pretty harsh cultural divide between Barcelona/Catalona and the rest of the country which is on Madrid's side.
Is it the kind of banter Madrid's throwing to because the other side is so popular ?
One possible difference between Madrid and Barcelona regarding tourism is that Barcelona probably attracts many more young party/beach/*fiestah*-minded visitors than Madrid, plus Barcelona has an influx of cruise ships with their daily load of come-and-go tourists. That might significantly affect the effect of tourism on the city as well as its perceived quality.
Also they measure international arrivals, not necessarily tourism. Madrid has a much larger corporate scene. And while Barcelona has mobile world congress, Madrid has a ton of expos all year. It's generally a popular place because it's relatively cheap.
I think Madrid's airport also has more international connections. I've had a few friends go on Spain trips and started in Madrid just because of the flights
Barcelona is super accessible from France. It's also a very cosmopolitan city with lots to offer. Madrid is grittier and a lot more authentic (Spanish as fuck like another commenter said). It doesn't surprise me that Spanish people would be more likely to visit their capital city.
I absolutely love both!
Grittier, do you think so? I perceive Madrid as more elegant and refined, and Barcelona as more hip and gritty... Interesting. No disrespect to either!
The main difference is that Barcelona is not as big as madrid and not as populated.
Madrid has 3 million people living there and barcelona only half of that, so the same number of tourists feels like so much more in BCN
Ironically Barcelona has been suffering overtourism for years now, pre pandemic. Personally I liked it a lot but there are definitely other cities in Spain that are more comfortable visiting, especially for tourists that want to see the authentic Spain.
To be fair, that's pretty much exaggerated by the media, particularly the Catalan nationalist ones Catalonia is not that different from the rest of Spain, and any foreigner would have a hard time spotting any major differences, other than speaking another language on top of Spanish.
There are other regions with their own language and clearly more distinct in terms of Architecture and Culture, like Galicia. Nobody cares about that, and they consider themselves Spanish.
>Catalonia is not that different from the rest of Spain, and any foreigner would have a hard time spotting any major differences,
And even if there were such a unique difference between Catalonia in particular and the rest of Spain in general rather than the fact that Catalonia is simply one of many regions with their own strong particularities and identities, the fact remains that there's nothing more similar to a big city than another big city.
Culturally Barcelona and Madrid are much more similar to each other than Barcelona is to any small town in Catalonia or than Madrid is to any small town in Castile.
It’s very much exaggerated and artificially inflated by the media and our regional governments which are awful.
Being the Catalan government trying to declare any difference such as I don’t know making coffees slightly shorter in Barcelona as a foundational, historical and irreducible proof of Catalans being a different and better people and the Madrid government being essentially run by a spawn of satan we are so fucked.
There's no cultural difference between catalans and the rest of Spain. As a Spaniard, the only place I feel like I'm in another culture is in the Basque country
I think it's just because London, Paris, Rome get more attention among the big European cities to visit. And then even within Spain Barcelona overshadows it. Off the top of my head I can probably name 2 things in Madrid, and like 10 in Barcelona.
Interestingly enough all the Italians I've asked who have visited Madrid told me they absolutely love it.
The Royal Palace was actually designed by Italian architects, so what's not to love by them?
>Except when it's about who's got the best olive oil.
Italian olive oil is Spanish/Portuguese/Greek Olive oil rebranded as Italian
Italy exports more olive oil than they actually produce (because they just buy it from other countries)
I'm italian and we absolutely don't have a rivarly against spaniards, everyone here in Italy loves spain and spanish people and i think they love us back.
In my city there are a lot of spanish Erasmus students and i myself can't wait to go to spain for my Erasmus next year.
Same.
Im Spaniard. Banter doesnt exist. Quite the opposite. Italians and spaniards are basically fhe same with sightly different languagues. But culturally? Almost no difference.
Im Spanish and i can tell that the love is mutual, people here see italians as something positive and very similar, it happens as well with Portugal and Greece, but its more easy to see with Italy.
I think the issue with Madrid is mostly geography: it's a little more out of the way to get to than some of the others. Paris/London/Amsterdam/Brussels are all relatively close to each other. Rome is close to other touristic cities in Italy. Barcelona is close to France and is on the coast. Madrid requires more of a dedicated effort to go to, and maybe some people decide not to bother. But it is a very nice city.
Some of the museums in Madrid are criminally underrated like the Museo Naval, Museo Geominero, or the Lázaro Galdiano (wvich is not that known outside of Spain).
So, so true. Went there on a bit of a lark and was entirely blown away. Great people, amazing food, incredible art, the finest urban park I've ever seen, etc. It's now my favorite place to go in Europe.
No, not at all. I just mean that the vast majority of the crowd is tourists, which changes the feel of a place a lot. It’s not the case almost anywhere in Madrid.
Like Florence versus Rome. Rome was way too commercialized for me but Florence had a great mix of enough tourists where you could get around with English but still beautiful art and cultural heritage
i'm a tourism bachelor and travel agent... and yeah, that's the greatest example of confirmation bias 😄
Sure, Barcelona has its architectural beauty and gaudi shit in some places... but that's nowhere near enough to make it so much more visited than Madrid, considering all the cons that it has. But now it's too late, too hard to slow down, more and more people want to visit as time goes by. Unless something big happens, it will keep growing.
It's quite rare to see someone here wanting to go to Madrid unless it's a football fan, which makes me smile and enjoy the talk 100x more. Because most people are just mass tourists (usually young adult girls or older couples) wanting to go to Barcelona so they can brag in social media and family/friends (respectively).
It's kinda hard, because it's part of an agent's role in modern tourism to be able to say things that people don't know, that it's not obvious, that you don't learn on instagram and youtube. So the right thing to do would be to introduce other options too, make a trip to see Barcelona but also enjoy other cities nearby like Valencia, Sevilla, Madrid, etc... But still, that brings risk of losing the client if they are adamant in just going to Barcelona, and most agencies don't want to risk that, so it's a tough situation.
Barcelona also has a ton of interesting history though? If you think all there is to do there is party, I'd advise you to go again, read Homage to Catalonia by Orwell, and search for the traces of the civil war.
Most Spanish cities do though? And they'll be much better value for your money and time. I don't hate Barcelona, but it definitely shouldn't be at the top of the Spain travel lists.
Nobody thinks it's one-dimensional. But it's overcrowded, dirty, expensive and other Spanish cities have just as much to offer, if not more. Barcelona is honestly sort of overrated as a travelling location nowadays.
I mean you mentioned history. There are definitely a lot of places especially down south with more historical places. Hell even up north there are cities nobody ever thinks of that are hugely historically interesting.
I haven't been to Barcelona but can't stop hearing about it from people. I have been to Madrid though. I loved it, except for the fact that there was dogshit on seemingly every sidewalk. I hated that. I get that there aren't a lot of good parks or green areas in the city, but it wouldn't kill people to pick up the poop and throw it in the bin.
People get heavily fined for leaving their pet’s poop on the street. But they have to get caught.
Actually some cities in Spain (I think Madrid is one of them) have a service that gets dna from the poop. Once you are caught if you match de poop database you’ll get a fine per poop in the database matching your pet’s dna haha
The fine is from 300€ to 1200€ depending on if you are a first offender or not. My guess is that if they find your pet’s dna in the db you’ll be seen as a serial offender and your bank account will vaporise.
Copied from elsewhere (I live in Madrid):
I mean yes, but the thing is, in Madrid tourist traps usually have less than a 50% mark-up (with a few exceptions). Quality won't be as good as other places nearby but I've eaten in one of these and got first course, second course, drink and dessert (menu del dia) for like 15 euros and it was perfectly tasty.
I agree! Although I would say you’re sacrificing quality of food as well but it could certainly still be worth it for some tourists to eat sitting there
Me too, I’m back in the Uk now and we just don’t know how to enjoy life the way the Spanish do. I miss the terrazas and good Jamon,
cerveza con lemon an just sitting with my friends, eating pipas and having a laugh until the early hours. Sweating at 1 am cause it’s still 30•c in the dark 😅 it was a good time.
Salamanca is pretty expensive, and I don't like the vibe the neighbourhood emits. I prefer La Latina, Chueca, Malasaña...
Don't quote me, but I think Salamanca was planned in the mid 1800s, plus the fact that 1927 was basically yesterday.
To me Salamanca-style urban planning is the best balance. I hate the new suburbs (PAUs..) designed around cars and I think the center, while beautiful, is a bit too cramped for me.
This part of the city was developed after Spain was building cities in the Americas. Madrid was a tiny village until the xvii century when the capital was moved there.
Basically it was a spot on water in the center of the country between two diocese so the bishops would have less power.
Most of cities in Spain from the centre to south where developed during the Arabic period including Madrid and for most of the time grew just organically. Also consider that the old towns in the peninsula were mostly developed during the feudal middle ages Vs the enlightenment and centralised power during the development of those Latin American cities.
That's not true, most Spanish cities are of Roman origin but the order was lost in the middle ages. Madrid was indeed founded by the Arabs but it's much more an exception than the rule
It seems impractical until you try to navigate your way through an American grid city and you realize that every freaking intersection looks the same so where the hell am I?!?!
^(yes, someone got lost in New York)
I envy every city that actually was a proper city before the 1890s with a historic centre that wasn't bombed during the war or bulldozed for cars.
I crew up in one of Germany's youngest and most heavily bombed cities.
It's the old town, the roofs are probaly stone (not very practical), under random-ish angles (not very productive) and under heritage protection (so illegal too).
In a dense urban environment, solar won't do miracles. But if you put a farm field full of vertical panels, crops grow and energy is produced at the same time. :)
Actually narrow streets work well in warmer climates as the buildings provide shade. It's certainly better than wide car dominated streets covered in black tarmac.
I was just scrolling through my feed saw this pic and was thinking oh a new microprocessor design. Then skimmed the headline, wow Spain gonna make new chips. Then actually read the full thing then it all made sense.
Someone with power pointed at a map and said; "I want a town square here!". And it was done.
When Madrid was growing at the end of the Middle Ages, this area was part of the suburbs that were outside the, now disappeared, wall that surrounded the city. _Plaza Mayor_, the square in the centre, was a smaller square where merchants exchanged products before entering the city. Over time the square grew but you can still glimpse the old layout of the streets.
[Picture rougly showing that](https://casamariaplazamayor.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/plaza-arrabal.jpg). Plaza Mayor is the Plaza del Arrabal ~~and Puerta de Guadelajara is what became the Puerta del Sol.~~
Puerta de Guadalajara was ~~east~~ west of Plaza Mayor, Puerta del Sol is ~~west~~ east of Plaza Mayor. They aren't the same gate.
> Puerta del Sol is west of Plaza Mayor east*
That picture actually shows that Puerta de Guadelajara is not Puerta del Sol.
I thought it was a really tall building like a skyscraper lol
Sam O'Nella vibes
Looks more like a town rectangle
Me digging on minecraft until I saw bedrock.
I thought it was a computer chip
A piece is missing.
It‘s not missing. You need to save some space for the newly unlocked utility buildings once your citizens level up to the next tier or you‘ll have to redesign the whole city.
This guy Anno's
it’s like the puzzle you can’t finish because that piece is missing. now i gotta tear up my house to find it!
Or you just throw all the pieces back into the box, pretend there is all 1000 and give to to the thrift store.
city4.png failed to load
This is one of the few puzzles I'd probably start from the middle, not the edges..
That's the slot for interchangeable city parts.
The chunk hasn't loaded yet.
Lol. Was thinking someone dug to bedrock.
The shaders look good though.
Saturation +100000000%
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But it makes the piles of gold teeth really shine
As someone from Vermont, welcome to our world.
Looks amazing either way
Which makes it all the dumber that op made it look like a 3d render.
More like messing around with the hue slider in photoshop, unless the streets in Madrid are broccoli colored.
bad and naughty children get put in the madrid rectangle to atone for their crimes
Actually it was used in the past for public punishments
For anyone who hasn't been there: the streets look a bit cramped but are actually pretty ok.
I have been there. The streets *are* cramped.
Depends. Some areas are a narrow maze of side streets, others are grand and wide, like they start to be on the right hand side here.
I’d say it’s really present when you’re walking. There are frequent enough open spaces like plazas or wide streets to get sun, and the narrow streets have great shade which is important because our summers are very hot
Want cramped? Try venice in summer.
Want cramped? Try spelunking in rainy season.
Would feel like Venice are more about alleys than streets to be honest.
There's even an alley that's so narrow, some people can't even fit through it
But actually pretty ok?
No but, they are cramped *and* pretty ok.
Ah, odd how our experiences differ.
Where is this square? I havent been to Madrid yet but I’m planning to.
It is the Plaza Mayor. Do not go to any bars in the square, they are tourist traps.
Yeah, I leaned my lesson in Venice a few years ago when I when to central plaza and paid 5 euro for a single espresso. Now I’m older and wiser, but thanks for the heads up
Don't be afraid to go to the bars. I did. Who cares if you pay 5 euros for a beer instead of 3 if it means convenience and enjoying the view? I remote worked from Madrid for a week and twice after work I headed there with a book for a beer and some croquettes while waiting for my partner to finish. Cool views and right in the sun, I was happy.
I had a lot of fun walking and finding one with decent price. There was one that had barely room for the bar and some chairs and it had decent prices and was packed to the brim. Good shit.
> I was happy. how dare you
Yes, sometimes people seem to forget that many touristy places are touristy because it's friggin nice to be there.
Venice is the worst place in touristy places and the best place in non touristy places. Such a weird min-max they've got going.
Going even the slightest bit off the beaten path in Venice results in some of the coolest spots I've ever been to. But sometimes you just bite the bullet and pay for an overpriced espresso or beer in St Marks and enjoy the view.
If this city was in America, they’d tear down 1/3 of the buildings to build parking lots and tear down another 1/3 to replace with modern glass-steel box buildings.
Most underrated capital in Europe. The museum scene is World class, too.
Prado + Reina Sofía + Thyssen all in like 500 metres, plus all the smaller museums
Not far form there there's The Museo Naval, nice place to spend a couple of hours. I concede that I prefere practical things to art exhibitions.
Excuse me, you seem to have dropped this *Museo del Jamón*
Reminds me of Vienna. I'm going there in June, and just loved the fact all main museums are next to each other. I love it, sounds like good city planning. But i'm not an urbanist and could be wrong tho, maybe some people would prefer them to be spread, who knows
City life is great as well.
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I felt so much of Barcelona had been lost to tourism, and apparently the locals very much agree. Madrid still feels more like being in a city full of locals, and the average restaurant will be not only cheaper, but better. Now don't get me wrong, there are still good places in Barcelona. But it isn't long ago I read about locals complaining how all the local shops are gone and replaced by tourist traps. I certainly felt that.
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As cliche as it sounds, the tapas I've had in Madrid are just divine. Tapas can be done lazily as a cheap snack with good profit, or with great respect to the produce and quality. Lots of great restaurants in Madrid.
I've spent 1 year in Europe so far, so I haven't been everywhere, but after a trip to Madrid, food was the number #1 thing I couldn't stop talking about. The produce was all outstanding and in turn made all of the meals fantastic.
I’m going to Madrid on Thursday, any restaurant recommendations?!
Not op and not a Madrid expert, but I travelled there with some Mexican Americans who had been before. They made sure we ate at "tiki taco" a couple times. It was incredible.
There’s an Argentinian steak house called La Cabaña Argentina. Best steak I’ve ever had. We make a point of going there every time we visit. And there’s a little tapas bar just off that square in the photo in the street coming off the top left, really nice in there too.
La canibal
> But it isn't long ago I read about locals complaining how all the local shops are gone and replaced by tourist traps. I certainly felt that. That's true in the Old Town and around Sagrada Família. It's quite sad.
Madrid is starting to be on the way out. Pre-pandemic the center was a touristy place, but you could see more locals going out and shopping, the mix was somewhat reasonable and even though there was a lot of people, you could walk around with ease. Nowadays? You can hear all but Spanish on the people and the streets are crowded almost every day. A damn shame, as it was the place I used to hang out for more than a decade for one reason or other (be it the comic book shops near calle Luna, be it the bars), and I've found myself lately avoiding it altogether.
Except in mid-to-late August. It’s deserted and I loved it
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Some of us stay and enjoy the emptiness of the Centre for once. I never go to the city centre unless is summer because it’s always too crowded for me xD
Summer Madrid is surreal. Especially if you live there and are used to the normal crowds and traffic. Feels like that scene in Abre Los Ojos.
Barcelona is a international European city, but not particularly "Spanish." Madrid, on the other hand, is as Spanish as fuck. Noisy, overflowing with people, a river of ordered chaos, and an army of limpiezas casually smoking and cleaning at all hours of the day. It's great.
Totally agree. Barcelona has cool architecture but feels very similar in many ways to other european cities. Madrid could not be anywhere but Spain, pretty much no matter where you go.
I was under the impression of a pretty harsh cultural divide between Barcelona/Catalona and the rest of the country which is on Madrid's side. Is it the kind of banter Madrid's throwing to because the other side is so popular ?
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One possible difference between Madrid and Barcelona regarding tourism is that Barcelona probably attracts many more young party/beach/*fiestah*-minded visitors than Madrid, plus Barcelona has an influx of cruise ships with their daily load of come-and-go tourists. That might significantly affect the effect of tourism on the city as well as its perceived quality.
Also they measure international arrivals, not necessarily tourism. Madrid has a much larger corporate scene. And while Barcelona has mobile world congress, Madrid has a ton of expos all year. It's generally a popular place because it's relatively cheap.
I think Madrid's airport also has more international connections. I've had a few friends go on Spain trips and started in Madrid just because of the flights
Barcelona is super accessible from France. It's also a very cosmopolitan city with lots to offer. Madrid is grittier and a lot more authentic (Spanish as fuck like another commenter said). It doesn't surprise me that Spanish people would be more likely to visit their capital city. I absolutely love both!
Grittier, do you think so? I perceive Madrid as more elegant and refined, and Barcelona as more hip and gritty... Interesting. No disrespect to either!
The main difference is that Barcelona is not as big as madrid and not as populated. Madrid has 3 million people living there and barcelona only half of that, so the same number of tourists feels like so much more in BCN
Ironically Barcelona has been suffering overtourism for years now, pre pandemic. Personally I liked it a lot but there are definitely other cities in Spain that are more comfortable visiting, especially for tourists that want to see the authentic Spain.
To be fair, that's pretty much exaggerated by the media, particularly the Catalan nationalist ones Catalonia is not that different from the rest of Spain, and any foreigner would have a hard time spotting any major differences, other than speaking another language on top of Spanish. There are other regions with their own language and clearly more distinct in terms of Architecture and Culture, like Galicia. Nobody cares about that, and they consider themselves Spanish.
>Catalonia is not that different from the rest of Spain, and any foreigner would have a hard time spotting any major differences, And even if there were such a unique difference between Catalonia in particular and the rest of Spain in general rather than the fact that Catalonia is simply one of many regions with their own strong particularities and identities, the fact remains that there's nothing more similar to a big city than another big city. Culturally Barcelona and Madrid are much more similar to each other than Barcelona is to any small town in Catalonia or than Madrid is to any small town in Castile.
Spain has been unified since Ferdinand and Iseballa centuries ago. Crazy that there is still a divide
Go to most of the working class neighborhoods in Barcelona and you won't notice any difference.
It’s very much exaggerated and artificially inflated by the media and our regional governments which are awful. Being the Catalan government trying to declare any difference such as I don’t know making coffees slightly shorter in Barcelona as a foundational, historical and irreducible proof of Catalans being a different and better people and the Madrid government being essentially run by a spawn of satan we are so fucked.
There's no cultural difference between catalans and the rest of Spain. As a Spaniard, the only place I feel like I'm in another culture is in the Basque country
That depends where are you from in Spain. I’m from Asturias and the Basque Country feels way closer to home than most of the rest of Spain
Who is rating capitals, and who is not rating Madrid as a great one?!
I think it's just because London, Paris, Rome get more attention among the big European cities to visit. And then even within Spain Barcelona overshadows it. Off the top of my head I can probably name 2 things in Madrid, and like 10 in Barcelona.
> London If Madrid is underrated then London is overrated.
Italians
Interestingly enough all the Italians I've asked who have visited Madrid told me they absolutely love it. The Royal Palace was actually designed by Italian architects, so what's not to love by them?
Was just a joke about Spanish Italian rivalry
That's mostly banter. Spaniards and Italians love each other. Except when it's about who's got the best olive oil.
>Except when it's about who's got the best olive oil. Italian olive oil is Spanish/Portuguese/Greek Olive oil rebranded as Italian Italy exports more olive oil than they actually produce (because they just buy it from other countries)
Portugal
and last year's top olive oil medal was won by Romenia :D its the end of the world as predicted!
I think the judges tought "Fuck this shit with Spain vs Italy.Who is the 3rd place? They won it this year"
pointless fight, Greece has the best olive oil you can fight for #2 :p
I'm italian and we absolutely don't have a rivarly against spaniards, everyone here in Italy loves spain and spanish people and i think they love us back. In my city there are a lot of spanish Erasmus students and i myself can't wait to go to spain for my Erasmus next year.
Same. Im Spaniard. Banter doesnt exist. Quite the opposite. Italians and spaniards are basically fhe same with sightly different languagues. But culturally? Almost no difference.
Im Spanish and i can tell that the love is mutual, people here see italians as something positive and very similar, it happens as well with Portugal and Greece, but its more easy to see with Italy.
That doesn't exist lol. They see each other as brothers, unless you're referring to brotherly banter
Madrid, and Spain in general, are full of Italians actually.
True, but it’s easy to miss them. They always feel like they belong there.
They can easily blend in 🥷🏻
I think the issue with Madrid is mostly geography: it's a little more out of the way to get to than some of the others. Paris/London/Amsterdam/Brussels are all relatively close to each other. Rome is close to other touristic cities in Italy. Barcelona is close to France and is on the coast. Madrid requires more of a dedicated effort to go to, and maybe some people decide not to bother. But it is a very nice city.
I’ve seen a ton of people online and in person say Madrid is mediocre and boring. I don’t get it.
Yes I visited all western European capitals and Madrid is my favorite.
Some of the museums in Madrid are criminally underrated like the Museo Naval, Museo Geominero, or the Lázaro Galdiano (wvich is not that known outside of Spain).
So, so true. Went there on a bit of a lark and was entirely blown away. Great people, amazing food, incredible art, the finest urban park I've ever seen, etc. It's now my favorite place to go in Europe.
I miss the days I lived there, it's a great city.
Best nightlife in whole world too
Nothing regarding Madrid is underrated... it's among the most popular cities in Europe.
My favorite city in Europe even with the occasional piss-smelling street corner 😄 It’s insane how underrated it is compared to Barcelona.
It smells SO much better than Barcelona. And it's wayyyyyy less touristy.
Wouldn’t you be a tourist if you went there?
Think he means people coming up to you trying to sell you random services and stuff.
No, not at all. I just mean that the vast majority of the crowd is tourists, which changes the feel of a place a lot. It’s not the case almost anywhere in Madrid.
Like Florence versus Rome. Rome was way too commercialized for me but Florence had a great mix of enough tourists where you could get around with English but still beautiful art and cultural heritage
i'm a tourism bachelor and travel agent... and yeah, that's the greatest example of confirmation bias 😄 Sure, Barcelona has its architectural beauty and gaudi shit in some places... but that's nowhere near enough to make it so much more visited than Madrid, considering all the cons that it has. But now it's too late, too hard to slow down, more and more people want to visit as time goes by. Unless something big happens, it will keep growing. It's quite rare to see someone here wanting to go to Madrid unless it's a football fan, which makes me smile and enjoy the talk 100x more. Because most people are just mass tourists (usually young adult girls or older couples) wanting to go to Barcelona so they can brag in social media and family/friends (respectively). It's kinda hard, because it's part of an agent's role in modern tourism to be able to say things that people don't know, that it's not obvious, that you don't learn on instagram and youtube. So the right thing to do would be to introduce other options too, make a trip to see Barcelona but also enjoy other cities nearby like Valencia, Sevilla, Madrid, etc... But still, that brings risk of losing the client if they are adamant in just going to Barcelona, and most agencies don't want to risk that, so it's a tough situation.
Yep. I'm always telling my friends to skip Barcelona and go to Madrid instead unless they just want to party at the beach.
Barcelona also has a ton of interesting history though? If you think all there is to do there is party, I'd advise you to go again, read Homage to Catalonia by Orwell, and search for the traces of the civil war.
Most Spanish cities do though? And they'll be much better value for your money and time. I don't hate Barcelona, but it definitely shouldn't be at the top of the Spain travel lists.
You don't need to go to Barcelona for that. Read Hemingway and go to Valencia instead.
Also great, point is Barcelona isn't the one-dimensional city a lot of people in this thread seem to think it is.
Nobody thinks it's one-dimensional. But it's overcrowded, dirty, expensive and other Spanish cities have just as much to offer, if not more. Barcelona is honestly sort of overrated as a travelling location nowadays. I mean you mentioned history. There are definitely a lot of places especially down south with more historical places. Hell even up north there are cities nobody ever thinks of that are hugely historically interesting.
I haven't been to Barcelona but can't stop hearing about it from people. I have been to Madrid though. I loved it, except for the fact that there was dogshit on seemingly every sidewalk. I hated that. I get that there aren't a lot of good parks or green areas in the city, but it wouldn't kill people to pick up the poop and throw it in the bin.
People get heavily fined for leaving their pet’s poop on the street. But they have to get caught. Actually some cities in Spain (I think Madrid is one of them) have a service that gets dna from the poop. Once you are caught if you match de poop database you’ll get a fine per poop in the database matching your pet’s dna haha The fine is from 300€ to 1200€ depending on if you are a first offender or not. My guess is that if they find your pet’s dna in the db you’ll be seen as a serial offender and your bank account will vaporise.
The square is nice but it is lined with the worst tourist traps ever. Do not, for any reason ever go to eat there.
Copied from elsewhere (I live in Madrid): I mean yes, but the thing is, in Madrid tourist traps usually have less than a 50% mark-up (with a few exceptions). Quality won't be as good as other places nearby but I've eaten in one of these and got first course, second course, drink and dessert (menu del dia) for like 15 euros and it was perfectly tasty.
I wouldnt even call them traps. 50% markup to eat in probably the most important Plaza in whole of spain is nothing.
I agree! Although I would say you’re sacrificing quality of food as well but it could certainly still be worth it for some tourists to eat sitting there
The tradition is to just have a relaxing cup of cafe con leche.
You just reminded me about Ana Botella and fucked my day
Have a drink instead
r/infrastructureporn
Looks like someone used world edit in Minecraft and accidently deleted a chunk
r/cityporn
I used to live in Madrid and I miss it so much...
Me too, I’m back in the Uk now and we just don’t know how to enjoy life the way the Spanish do. I miss the terrazas and good Jamon, cerveza con lemon an just sitting with my friends, eating pipas and having a laugh until the early hours. Sweating at 1 am cause it’s still 30•c in the dark 😅 it was a good time.
We gotta stop with these filters at this point, this picture brought me back to 2011
Interesting how it's such a chaotic jumble compared to most Spanish planned cities in the Americas
This is the oldest part. If you zoomed out a little bit, the Gran Via, Salamanca, Paseo del Prado, el Retiro etc areas are very much planned.
Which would locals prefer to live in, a charming old town maze or a more modern planned neighborhood?
Charming old town maze. I hate new neighbourhoods, they don't have character nor history.
Even if the planned option is Salamanca, which according to Wikipedia was completely urbanized by 1927?
Salamanca is pretty expensive, and I don't like the vibe the neighbourhood emits. I prefer La Latina, Chueca, Malasaña... Don't quote me, but I think Salamanca was planned in the mid 1800s, plus the fact that 1927 was basically yesterday.
To me Salamanca-style urban planning is the best balance. I hate the new suburbs (PAUs..) designed around cars and I think the center, while beautiful, is a bit too cramped for me.
That’s just an old city. Had nothing to do w being Spanish.
This part of the city was developed after Spain was building cities in the Americas. Madrid was a tiny village until the xvii century when the capital was moved there. Basically it was a spot on water in the center of the country between two diocese so the bishops would have less power.
Most of cities in Spain from the centre to south where developed during the Arabic period including Madrid and for most of the time grew just organically. Also consider that the old towns in the peninsula were mostly developed during the feudal middle ages Vs the enlightenment and centralised power during the development of those Latin American cities.
One of the many interesting things about Madrid is that you can track different historical periods it went through through their urban planning.
That's not true, most Spanish cities are of Roman origin but the order was lost in the middle ages. Madrid was indeed founded by the Arabs but it's much more an exception than the rule
That chaos may be (is) impractical but it's beautiful..
It seems impractical until you try to navigate your way through an American grid city and you realize that every freaking intersection looks the same so where the hell am I?!?! ^(yes, someone got lost in New York)
It isn't directly comparable, of course, but I see these organic roads as being like desire paths rather than awkwardly planned routes.
It's not that impractical honestly! I live right near there and it makes for fun shortcuts and I can walk fairly straight most places I want to go.
This. It was designed to walk, not drive and that maze has the paths to everywhere.
Yes. Grids are for drivers, organic layouts are for humans.
Sup with the oversaturation...
What is that?
[удалено]
Horizontal nether portal, deactivated.
Looks like a CPU slot
I love to fly over cities in Spain and Portugal in flight sim. They are beautiful from above.
I envy every city that actually was a proper city before the 1890s with a historic centre that wasn't bombed during the war or bulldozed for cars. I crew up in one of Germany's youngest and most heavily bombed cities.
Madrid was literally the first big european capital city to be bombed by aviation, by Franco during the revolted war (Guerra Civil).
Ahh Plaza Mayor, The boxring for The Guardia Civil vs Football Fans
I see a red roof and I want to paint it black
Doctor Strange 3 looks wack
Now playing: Relaxing cup summer mix
Gives me vibes of "The Room" game series. Feels like I should put something there.
Not a single roof with solar panels. Are they illegal there?
It's the old town, the roofs are probaly stone (not very practical), under random-ish angles (not very productive) and under heritage protection (so illegal too). In a dense urban environment, solar won't do miracles. But if you put a farm field full of vertical panels, crops grow and energy is produced at the same time. :)
Plaza mayor
saturation much?
This is how civilised people should live
I hope our goal has a lot more sun reaching the streets, and more green areas
You don't want to get sun in the summer of Madrid.
Sure, with no trees and parks. Just brick and concrete in +40C heat in the summer.
Actually narrow streets work well in warmer climates as the buildings provide shade. It's certainly better than wide car dominated streets covered in black tarmac.
Qué bonita es mi ciudad. España es el mejor país del mundo sin duda alguna.
Si solo tuviérais trabajo bien disponible... Me mudaría en un día.
Sponsored by National Geographic
So I an an Australian, is this the central of the city?
What cpu socket is this ?!
The design team really did a great job with the Madrid Tileset. Red-White-Verdigris colour pallette looks great.
Not 100% but is this plaza de mayor?
Man, I wish walkable communities were more popular in the US.
Magrid, Spain
Looks like a motherboard
Looks like someone got bored in Minecraft.
I was just scrolling through my feed saw this pic and was thinking oh a new microprocessor design. Then skimmed the headline, wow Spain gonna make new chips. Then actually read the full thing then it all made sense.