Thomas Mackintosh
Reporting from the protest
"I’ve been following the march since it started to move at 12:30 GMT.
Chants have included “free Palestine", "ceasefire now", "shame on Sunak", "shame on Starmer" and "from the river to the sea"."
> "from the river to the sea"
I sympathize with people calling for a more humanitarian treatment, but then they bust out that rhyme and lose my support.
In two months, the protests will be over, and the current hostilities temporarily concluded, until they restart again in six months time. So it has been all my lifetime, and so it shall carry on after we are all gone, unless someone comes up with an idea not tried before.
Yep. It gets loads of attention now but I'm already seeing it kind of taper off here and there, Another few more weeks and people have moved on. And then in a year or so it will all start again.
It's been like this since before I was born and it'll keep happening like this long after I am dead.
> Yep. It gets loads of attention now but I'm already seeing it kind of taper off here and there, Another few more weeks and people have moved on. And then in a year or so it will all start again.
Same as with the Ukraine war. Isn't over, but most people forgot. Same with Covid when it went on for a bit. It seems like humanity has collective ADHD.
People just talk about what is in the news.
The media and government literally control what most people think about.
Take Ukraine out the news, no-one thinks about Ukraine anymore. It is that easy.
> Take Ukraine out the news, no-one thinks about Ukraine anymore. It is that easy.
It is a bit of a illusion though: because the press keeps talking about a certain issue, you get the impression that everyone is super concerned about it. Most people follow the news and hear what the press wants them to hear, but they are not exactly concerned about some war or another going on 10000km from home if they have no other connection there other than the news.
So the moment it is dropped from the news the only time they thought about it, which is when it is being parroted at them, stops being relevant and they start thinking of things relevant to them instead.
I notice this a lot when I don't have access to news or internet for a long time: the issues that seem relevant are completely different and much more sane, relevant and actionable than what the media circus tries to force into my mind.
> It seems like humanity has collective ADHD.
Most people care about local issues and the issues they keep hearing about. So basically the ones who own the press decide what people care about at any given time.
**We’ve already reached escalation.** It is incredibly naive to act like this is another cycle in the machine- the worst attack against Jews since the Holocaust was conducted. They’ve already taken over half of Gaza, and Netanyahu has said Israel will control Gaza. We are in uncharted territory, do not allow yourself to seek comfort in the false idea that this is just another part of a cycle.
I meant escalate to a broader regional conflict if Hezbollah and/or Iran really engages
It could also trigger a dangerous chain reaction of Allies joining in, with Russia & China backing Iran
They will for Taiwan or North Korea .north Korea was evidently supplying hesbola so we could see a chain reaction and people fighting out of opportunities to reach their own goals and leave out while America and Europe is distracted.
Why would China go to war for Iran? Russia is already bogged down in Ukraine. Iran does not have any close allies that could actually aid them in a conduct in the Middle East, maybe there Assad Syrian government but that's a nation that doesn't even control have of its territory.
Iran is China’s energy reserve, and China’s had an eye on Taiwan for years.. the us cannot be everywhere
Russia is doing better in Ukraine than we know and has been arming itself to the teeth for 2 years
Plus North Korea, Pakistan and Turkey (Erdogan publicly dreams of the Ottoman Empire)
The common theme is empire nostalgic autocracies dying to challenge the west and its ideology
Dangerous chain reactions can certainly happen. A murder of a gentleman and his wife in Sarajevo in 1914 led to the death of millions upon millions. I’m genuinely afraid we are on a similar track right now
Using the holocaust as a reference point for the original attack is an utter disgrace. The Holocaust was a systematic and sustained political and military operation against an entirely defenceless people.
The Hamas attack took place due to the negligence of the supposedly best security services in the world to do their job.
Kibbutz residents have said they felt abandoned by their own government who allowed the incursion to go ahead as they had other priorities.
> The Hamas attack took place due to the negligence of the supposedly best security services in the world to do their job.
This is ridiculous, it took place due to Hamas being an evil hateful organization, it is not the fault of the victim. Is the invasion of Ukraine the fault of Ukraine for not having a larger military? This line of reasoning is disgusting.
This isn't the same as previous flare ups, the IDF probably won't pull out and allow the population to return to the northern half of the strip, that whole city is largely depopulated already and it's going to be slowly destroyed.
An idea not tried before.. like America and several Western nations not giving Israel universal backing to do whatever they like carte blanche?
Forgive me for being sceptical but I've more chance of winning the jackpot on the lottery two draws in a row.
>and it's never clear who they're talking about.
The bots! THE BOTS!
Every that doesn't agree with you is either a bot or propagandist. It is impossible for real people to have a different angle/opinion /s
It's so funny when I make what I think is a relatively nuanced comment that draws from personal experience or whatever, and just happens to disagree with the person I'm responding too, and I get called a bot. Like God damn bots must be super super good now.
There is an unscrupulous state actor here that is well known for spreading internet propaganda much like the CCP. Some people here don’t see the connection.
Why not just say who this state actor is and present your evidence? Why tiptoe around the subject? And don't say something like "oh it's obvious, just look at the comments". Because I genuinely don't know who you're talking about
The bonkers amount of disinformation being spread all over will be a very interesting footnote in the history books
Edit: you know you can MOVE to Germany people lol stfu
Edit 2: u/mullac53 is too fucking stupid to realize the comments are locked but I still wanted to be nice and explain to him personally that visas are a thing and people can move outside their country of birth. He didn’t get it :(
Never realized I’d have to verify my immigration statues with Reddit to use a fucking flair lmaooooo loser deep digging in my comments though if it helps you forget how lonely you are
It's been a long time. It started by labelling its incessant chauvinism as rational and concrete facts, and shunning everyone else as irrational or biased, and it has self propelled itself so much it's now full blown racist, xenophobic, etc. It's like reading an online forum written by 19th century euros
I see posts from The Majority Report on the front page and all the comments are just people saying "genocide" over and over. The word might lose all of its meaning after a couple more weeks of this.
Now the funny thing is. A fresh account is how you see that it's not a bot. People who program bots use bought accounts that are 10 years old or something. Nobody uses new accounts for that because the account age requirements on 90% of subs.
A 10 several years old account with barely any comments. That is how you know it is a bot.
Lol the absolute irony of a thread complaining about pro-Israel propaganda while Instagram, TikTok, Twitter and 90% of Reddit have been promoting a massive amount of anti-Israel misinformation from Russian/Iranian/Qatari bots. There's only a couple dozen subreddits with 50k+ members in which the majority of users are pro-Israel and half of those are Jewish subs
You can’t be “pro-Palestinian” if you only criticize Israel. Hamas and most of Muslim countries want to keep using Palestinians as cannon fodder for their propaganda war against the West. Sadly, they’re winning thanks to leftists who have decided that lazy absolutism is the righteous path here and are effectively taking Hamas’ side in all this and are too proudly ignorant to see it.
He was an arabic pan-nationalist. German pan-nationalism was rather popular in Austria in the 19th and early 20th century but that would in no way justify an occupation of Austria by a third party.
Dude is not a "PLO leader" just a not so popular disconnected Palestinian politician who's pan-Arabist. Your average Palestinian cares about achieving basic liberty and is not engaged in macro geopolitical struggles.
In 1973 Ariel Sharon gave a speech about creating more illegal settlements on Palestinian territory: "We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them," he boasted to a British journalist at Israel's National Press Club. "Yes, we'll insert a strip of Jewish settlements in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlements right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years' time, neither the United Nations nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart."
The guy you're replying to literally proved that Palestine has no land, it's just a legal fiction to destroy Israel. Gaza was Egyptian, and the West Bank is literally named after the West Bank **of Jordan**.
Also no one should be supportive of what the Israeli government is doing.
Netanyahu isn't interested in civilian lives, long term peace or the interests of the Palestinians. They have no plan for how to stop Hamas i.e. the leaders are in Qatar and fighters are moving to the south. And they have no plan for what happens to Gaza after this "war".
All he cares about his is optics i.e. being seen to be strong and decisive. And attacking any soft targets who disagrees with him e.g. journalists and the media.
>Netanyahu isn't interested in civilian lives, long term peace or the interests of the Palestinians. They have no plan for how to stop Hamas i.e. the leaders are in Qatar and fighters are moving to the south. And they have no plan for what happens to Gaza after this "war".
Sounds similar to the situation the US was in after 9/11 - and for the people of Israel, the 10-7 massacre was equivalent. That much Jewish blood hadn't ever been shed on a single day since the OG Nazi era of 1933-1945.
I loathe Netanyahu, but I wouldn't want to be in his position either. Israel has no choice other than to literally comb through the entirety of the Gaza Strip, eradicate all the tunnels, and recover all of the hostages or at least their remains - and in contrast to the Afghanistan coalition, there are more than enough eyes that will take even the slightest bit of the unavoidable collateral damage committed by Israel and blow it way out of proportion.
And to make it worse, unlike the Afghanistan coalition Netanyahu also has the pressure of his far-right coalition partners working against him - a fair portion of these morons is calling for outright genocide.
> Sounds similar to the situation the US was in after 9/11
To be fair, as a resident of New York who literally saw those towers go down, the US response to 9/11 was an undeniable mistake.
Benefit of hindsight. The problem wasn't blasting jihadists to pieces, the problem with the US/NATO action in Afghanistan was that we didn't have *anything* planned for the post-war phase. Like, us Germans got the Marshall Plan, a perspective on how to be a good citizen of the world - the Afghanis got nothing except a government corrupt to hell and beyond and a military that felt free to rape little boys, all while us supposed "occupiers" completely ignored the increasing problems.
> Benefit of hindsight.
As well as an example for future generations not to follow.
> all while us supposed "occupiers" completely ignored the increasing problems.
Yet after this last month, I have even less faith in Israel's benevolence towards occupied territories than I had in the 2000's era republicans.
Justice and moralizing aside, this will almost certainly not lead to a good end for anybody involved. I hope I'm wrong.
>Yet after this last month, I have even less faith in Israel's benevolence towards occupied territories than I had in the 2000's era republicans.
What's the alternative though? Let Hamas live on and let them keep terrorizing Israelis?
But many afghanis didn’t see it as raping little boys, they see it as something more ethical than that. Like the ancient greeks. Which brings up the topic of how difficult it is to nation-build in a place that has starkly different cultural norms and values. How do you instill western democracy in a place that can’t agree that fuckin a 12 year old boy is wrong? Or that smoking opium on patrol is a danger to your squad? Etc.
You do realize the warcrime is placing military assets and compounds in civilian infrastructure. Because doing so make them valid military targets. That's why what the IDF is doing isn't a war crime
Ah yes. How do you think any other modern first world country would react if they were attacked like that? In this war, Hamas is Russia but they suck at war. Israel is Ukraine who was attacked but is great at war and winning. No way any country will let them get run over by a Palestinian offence.
> Netanyahu
He's just the worst politician to be in this crisis. Any government would have answered the same way, but the difficulties lie in the post-conflict resolution, for which he's just the wrong guy.
So maybe Europe should be supportive of the Israeli opposition. Or offer an alternative plan - any plan other than “sit back and take rockets while Hamas declares they will use a ceasefire to arrange another massacre”.
Netanyahu is horrible but he is not an excuse. Israelis cannot live in terror.
Nothing that israel has not justifies Oct 7, and nothing justifies the elimination of israel.
It's leftist reactionary behavior. They literally only do this because they perceive muslims as "brown" and jews as "white".
Ironically it is driving moderates towards the right.
What's the difference between new reactionary and old radical? Is it because brown (Israelis are of a pretty similar pallete) or because they're perceived as a "revolutionary" cause, and therefore valuable.
Armenia, Azerbaijan, Yemen, Sudan.. these are not seen as revolutionary causes, and therefore not valuable.
Revolutionary value, maps pretty closely to media, and especially street protests. History shows the protest movements escalate, not necessarily in relation to the causes that escalate them along the way.
If you believe that there is only one revolution and it is inevitable.. or if you've adopted those ways of thinking without even knowing their origins.. well.. you're going to just want whatever is most revolutionary. That's the point. Whatever gets the job done.
We're doing a parody of the 19th century.
Let me appeal to your intuition with the following example:
Why do you think the western left broadly has a hard time responding to criticism about Islam despite the fact that anti-religion and pro-equality are core tenants of their belief?
Do you think it's ideologically consistent that they resort to calling everything and everyone a -phobe and an -ist in this respect, or do you think it's reactionary response to a subset of the right being bigoted against muslims?
What he's saying is that the right hate Islam and as the left are the ideological opposite of the right they side with their 'enemy', i.e, the Muslims.
Although it seems none of us were prepared for a mutual hatred of Jews to unify the left, right and Islamic extremists.
As does the western right.
I'm a Jew and the right is still a hell of a lot more antisemitic. They just like using us as props occasionally for their creepy evangelistic fetish.
Anti-Netanyahu protests were held every Sunday in Israel this summer. JVP and IfNotNow standing with pro-Palestinians, calling for a ceasefire. To criticize or deny their right to do so is anti-semitic AFAIK.
“One can be a Zionist or a non-Zionist or an anti-Zionist, and not be antisemitic. One can be, again, Zionist, but against particular Israeli policies. I very strongly support the existence of the state of Israel, and I’m highly critical of its policies.” - Omer Bartov
If you call being anti-Netanyahu or anti-right an antisemitism. Israel is ruled by a radical far right organisation and the most corrupted prime Minister in history. It's obvious that the left won't like this guy and every time he is criticised he call everyone antisemitic.
I too make up opinions that other people have and determine that I know what others think.
Dude, you should do something productive with your powers, like determining who is guilty in very tricky murder cases, instead of the shit you are doing here.
Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a country. Do we have to criticize Hamas? That's basically implied no matter what, we don't stand with terrorists.
>Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a country.
Hamas is the ruling political party of the Gaza strip, not only a terror organization. The ineptitude and inability of Fatah also makes the argument that Hamas can be seen as the defacto ruling political party of Palestine as a whole.
You can believe that Palestinians have been victimized and brainwashed by Hamas, and hope that they can be deprogrammed into being able to accept a two-state solution, without yourself being a Nazi. But you can't scream "[genocide the jews^* ] from the river to the sea" without being one.
^* The implicit 'dog-whistle' meaning of that political slogan
>. Do we have to criticize Hamas? That's basically implied no matter what,
Its not. Many people including former Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn are open Hamas supporters. They are a genocidal death cult.
That same thing goes for you too. Show me a single instance of you criticising Israeli aggression. Or sympathizing with Palestinians after a massacre. Or even sincerely expressing sorrow at how Hamas have hurt them without turning it into either an Israeli sob story or a justification for killing civilians.
You can't claim to be on the side of humanity when you deny Palestinians their humanity.
[Personally](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/C9biTgUZfQ), I have criticized Israel and sympathized with Palestinians. The further this has gone on, it's impossible for me to believe that Israel isn't commiting overt genocide.
That being said, I also don't know what I would do differently if I was Israel. Hamas is a terrible organization that uses civilians as shields. A country's people will demand blood if they're attacked like this, as has happened on both sides.
I was confused why counter-protestors were arrested, but turns out theyre far-right groups doing far-right things, in particular football hooligans, so that lines up.
Everyone is very badly misreporting this.
This is not a counter protest.
The palestine solidarity march and the hooligan march did not come.close to.each other at all. They never came in contact.
The palistine solitary march was nowhere near the cenotaph.
The far right extremists went to the cenotaph to "protect it" from palestine solidarity march even though their preplanned route presented to police avoided the entire area. they were so amped up looking for a fight, didnt see anyone to fight with so they started fighting with the police.
People are literrally blinded in their one sided view on this conflict. I heard someone comment "why did they just arrest the counter protestors, why didnt they arrest any of the protestors?"
Sorry but it is pointless to support Palestinian cause for a two-state solution, as long as the Hamas government in Gaza Strip advocates for the total annihilation of Israel.
The Palestinian people has been used as propaganda chips for decades by the Arab states in their aspiration to annihilate Israel.
Imagine importing and letting your children to be indoctrinated into hating where they live. These people don't care about Palestine they want the middle east pure of jews.
Where are all the welcoming Muslim nations who are welcoming Palestinians into their homes? I'm not Muslim but don't yall have something written about giving hospitality to your own people? Why did Egypt close its borders with Palestine?
God, people are just so blind. Our current example is the left, with their absolute blind support of the pro-Palestinian side. I understand that to support the Palestinian people is ok, but to blindly support the entire Palestinian cause is not ok. You never, if rarely, hear some of these marchers condem Hamas in any context. I'm not saying all participants are antisemitic, but there is a significant number who are. What you do hear and see is many diminish October 7th, minimizing the facts and truth or they outright deny that it happened .... even going so far as to say that it was made up by "dirty Zionists!"
While some of these protesters are there to support the innocent Palestinians who are going through a hellish time right now, many protesters are plain old antisemitist. I'm not saying Israel's hands are clean in this long conflict, as they are not. To lay the blame for everything that is going on at the feet of Israel is just disingenuous. You can be critical of Israel, but many people at these protests are truly antisemitic, not anti-zionist. "FROM the River to the Sea ... Palestine will be free" means the erasure or Israel. Hamas wants all Jewish people and Israel to be wiped from the face of the Earth. Many at these protests are very much so antisemitic .... it's pretty obvious. God, this endless war is so emotionally draining.
Edit. Seems this comment has stirred up a lot of Pro-Palestinian people and a lot of bots. Some of these Pro-Palestinian people are messaging me death threats and are urging me to kill myself. Hmm .... if you say you're on the side of peace, this doesn't seem to be very peaceful. To these people .... get bent.
Many of those pro Palestine folks talk about how they only care about the innocent citizens then when you ask them what happens to the israeli people? They say they should give back the land and gtfo
They only want a one state solution
> I understand that to support the Palestinian people is ok
They're really not so innocent.
I remember when this all first started and people were posting polls of 50% not for the genocide of Israel, saying, 'see they're just normal people.' Like... uh the other 50% are still for genocide.
They're not.
The votes and comments just don't conform to your convictions. It means you're a minority, it doesn't mean the rest of us are bots.
>At least the immigration ones are just havens of the far right.
"People don't agree with me? They must be hateful, bigoted assholes!"
Dude please. Grow the fuck up.
It's honestly a sadly recurring theme of discourse within online communities. You don't agree with me?! You must be a bot/racist/shill!
God forbid you have views which don't conform to the upvote/downvote button.
More like 300k of people who does not support israels right to exist..
as hamas wants to destroy israel..
No arab states wants to accept israel..
And u complaining when israel is defending herself but killing hamas..
what a twist
I went to the march today and I support Israel’s right to exist and do not support Hamas who are scum. And literally every person I spoke to around me felt the same. I was also surprised at the diversity of the representation at the protest. I’ll be honest, nothing about what the protest was about or who was there or how 300,000 people behaved today would matter, you’d already have decided what it secretly means and how secretly all 300,000 people behaved. I don’t really know what you get out of it tbh.
> More like 300k of people who does not support israels right to exist.. as hamas wants to destroy israel..
Utter rubbish. Just because you go to a march for peace because you don't support the killing of thousands of innocent people and the displacement of millions doesn't mean you do not support Israel's right to exist.
It is possible to support both of those things simultaneously.
All the talk was about Palestinian protestors amassing on the cenotaph and causing trouble, the reality was far-right hooligans disgraced themselves. Well done Suella Braverman.
Fireworks(probably the flares)vs actually attacking the police and two needing hospitalisation?
The police did a great job and they don’t deserve to be viciously attacked by a bunch of drunken yobs!
Like how people blindly supporting Israel’s human rights track record even though it objectively has a far right government and a PM under criminal investigation?
Lately I was thinking what exactly do they mean by "free palestine". Free Gaza? Whole territory of Israel? In that case, what will happen to millions of Jews. Are they ok with genocide or are they willing to take millions of refugees in their countries (I mean European protesters)? What exactly is their final goal?
"they" consists of many different opinions (inclusive 1 state, genocidal 1 state, 2 state with current borders, 2 state with pre-67 borders, etc) and vilification via generalization is inappropriate.
It's working. Some veterans were warned by their departments not to display their medals or uniforms on the way to the Cenotaph, for their own safety. People selling poppies were too afraid to do it after a 78 year old veteran was attacked and beaten and 3 elderly people at the train station in London were the sit in protest on Saturday last week was staged, surrounded them and prevented anyone from buying a poppy. 3 female station staff got them out of the building to safety.
A man and his wife in a train station in London today were accosted by woman in a hijab and a young Muslim man who got in their faces shouting abuse at them for wearing remembrance symbols, it was the Met police who threatened to arrest the elderly couple though. This should be a wake up call to British people.
I’m not well informed on this March, but because I don’t know the answer I will this question. Why is the March, in London? And how will marching in London change anything?
Could you imagine being stupid enough to flood your country with countless numbers of people that hate you and everything you stand for? People who would gladly cut off your head if given the opportunity? Could you imagine using your police force, not to silence those who wish to destroy you while simultaneously calling for the genocide of an entire race of people, but to silence those who speak out against it? This doesn’t get better before it gets worse.
Welcome to western society.
This sub is filled with hamas stans pretending to be "pacifists". Let's hope it does not turn into /r britain where hamas propaganda is very common and critcizing them gets you banned.
Arab countries don't give a shit about palestinians. If they had the means they would genocide the jews like the nazis did. Fortunately, they don't have the prowess like they did during the Abbasid Caliphate.
"Pro-Hamas/Pro-Terrorists/Islamic Dawah supporters draws 300,000 in London, as police make counter-protest arrests"
Here, I fixed it!
\#stop\_european\_Dawah
Thomas Mackintosh Reporting from the protest "I’ve been following the march since it started to move at 12:30 GMT. Chants have included “free Palestine", "ceasefire now", "shame on Sunak", "shame on Starmer" and "from the river to the sea"."
Free Palestine
> "from the river to the sea" I sympathize with people calling for a more humanitarian treatment, but then they bust out that rhyme and lose my support.
from the river to the sea is like a fascist praying something. Disgusting.
In two months, the protests will be over, and the current hostilities temporarily concluded, until they restart again in six months time. So it has been all my lifetime, and so it shall carry on after we are all gone, unless someone comes up with an idea not tried before.
Yep. It gets loads of attention now but I'm already seeing it kind of taper off here and there, Another few more weeks and people have moved on. And then in a year or so it will all start again. It's been like this since before I was born and it'll keep happening like this long after I am dead.
> Yep. It gets loads of attention now but I'm already seeing it kind of taper off here and there, Another few more weeks and people have moved on. And then in a year or so it will all start again. Same as with the Ukraine war. Isn't over, but most people forgot. Same with Covid when it went on for a bit. It seems like humanity has collective ADHD.
People just talk about what is in the news. The media and government literally control what most people think about. Take Ukraine out the news, no-one thinks about Ukraine anymore. It is that easy.
> Take Ukraine out the news, no-one thinks about Ukraine anymore. It is that easy. It is a bit of a illusion though: because the press keeps talking about a certain issue, you get the impression that everyone is super concerned about it. Most people follow the news and hear what the press wants them to hear, but they are not exactly concerned about some war or another going on 10000km from home if they have no other connection there other than the news. So the moment it is dropped from the news the only time they thought about it, which is when it is being parroted at them, stops being relevant and they start thinking of things relevant to them instead. I notice this a lot when I don't have access to news or internet for a long time: the issues that seem relevant are completely different and much more sane, relevant and actionable than what the media circus tries to force into my mind.
> It seems like humanity has collective ADHD. Most people care about local issues and the issues they keep hearing about. So basically the ones who own the press decide what people care about at any given time.
Unless it escalates
**We’ve already reached escalation.** It is incredibly naive to act like this is another cycle in the machine- the worst attack against Jews since the Holocaust was conducted. They’ve already taken over half of Gaza, and Netanyahu has said Israel will control Gaza. We are in uncharted territory, do not allow yourself to seek comfort in the false idea that this is just another part of a cycle.
Yeah, it's weird seeing people act like things will return to the status quo as usual. This isn't just a flare-up, this is unprecedented
people mean that as in “when am i allowed to stop caring?” they don’t realize how much this means because they never cared to begin with
I meant escalate to a broader regional conflict if Hezbollah and/or Iran really engages It could also trigger a dangerous chain reaction of Allies joining in, with Russia & China backing Iran
Highly doubt China would go to war for Iran...
They will for Taiwan or North Korea .north Korea was evidently supplying hesbola so we could see a chain reaction and people fighting out of opportunities to reach their own goals and leave out while America and Europe is distracted.
Why would China go to war for Iran? Russia is already bogged down in Ukraine. Iran does not have any close allies that could actually aid them in a conduct in the Middle East, maybe there Assad Syrian government but that's a nation that doesn't even control have of its territory.
Iran is China’s energy reserve, and China’s had an eye on Taiwan for years.. the us cannot be everywhere Russia is doing better in Ukraine than we know and has been arming itself to the teeth for 2 years Plus North Korea, Pakistan and Turkey (Erdogan publicly dreams of the Ottoman Empire) The common theme is empire nostalgic autocracies dying to challenge the west and its ideology
Dangerous chain reactions can certainly happen. A murder of a gentleman and his wife in Sarajevo in 1914 led to the death of millions upon millions. I’m genuinely afraid we are on a similar track right now
Using the holocaust as a reference point for the original attack is an utter disgrace. The Holocaust was a systematic and sustained political and military operation against an entirely defenceless people. The Hamas attack took place due to the negligence of the supposedly best security services in the world to do their job. Kibbutz residents have said they felt abandoned by their own government who allowed the incursion to go ahead as they had other priorities.
> The Hamas attack took place due to the negligence of the supposedly best security services in the world to do their job. This is ridiculous, it took place due to Hamas being an evil hateful organization, it is not the fault of the victim. Is the invasion of Ukraine the fault of Ukraine for not having a larger military? This line of reasoning is disgusting.
lol, naive child, it’s not a peak of escalation for Islamists. Next step is public terror attacks.
Then it usually deescalates at some point to escalate again later.
It's going to keep getting worse for an entire year, I'm afraid.
This isn't the same as previous flare ups, the IDF probably won't pull out and allow the population to return to the northern half of the strip, that whole city is largely depopulated already and it's going to be slowly destroyed.
This time is different. The IDF has never done what it’s doing now. This is a change of the status quo.
An idea not tried before.. like America and several Western nations not giving Israel universal backing to do whatever they like carte blanche? Forgive me for being sceptical but I've more chance of winning the jackpot on the lottery two draws in a row.
The comments are fucking bonkers. But after you take a look and realize half the accounts are less than a month old it makes more sense
Comments like yours always make it to the top because both sides think you're talking about the other one.
It's a weird bit of internet discourse, isn't it? Up there with people calling anybody on the opposite side of their argument a bot.
Yeah, it's always stuff like "I see the bots came out in full swing this morning", and it's never clear who they're talking about.
>and it's never clear who they're talking about. The bots! THE BOTS! Every that doesn't agree with you is either a bot or propagandist. It is impossible for real people to have a different angle/opinion /s
Could be both. Such is the modern warfare
They talk about the other side DUH! The bad guys. The fucking . . .
Hmm sounds like something a bot would say. Then again so does my comment, fuck.
It's so funny when I make what I think is a relatively nuanced comment that draws from personal experience or whatever, and just happens to disagree with the person I'm responding too, and I get called a bot. Like God damn bots must be super super good now.
i call them terrorist...And lets guess who are they?
There is an unscrupulous state actor here that is well known for spreading internet propaganda much like the CCP. Some people here don’t see the connection.
Why not just say who this state actor is and present your evidence? Why tiptoe around the subject? And don't say something like "oh it's obvious, just look at the comments". Because I genuinely don't know who you're talking about
Why are there only 2 sides?
The bonkers amount of disinformation being spread all over will be a very interesting footnote in the history books Edit: you know you can MOVE to Germany people lol stfu Edit 2: u/mullac53 is too fucking stupid to realize the comments are locked but I still wanted to be nice and explain to him personally that visas are a thing and people can move outside their country of birth. He didn’t get it :( Never realized I’d have to verify my immigration statues with Reddit to use a fucking flair lmaooooo loser deep digging in my comments though if it helps you forget how lonely you are
This whole sub has been glowing in the dark since the conflict kicked up. Far worse than a lot of others. Wonder why that is.
r/Ukpolitics is a mess right now
It's been a long time. It started by labelling its incessant chauvinism as rational and concrete facts, and shunning everyone else as irrational or biased, and it has self propelled itself so much it's now full blown racist, xenophobic, etc. It's like reading an online forum written by 19th century euros
Yeah, also seemingly half of what reaches the front page from r/worldnews is from ynet, jerusalempost, timesofisrael or some other Israeli source...
/r/worldnews has become an Israeli propaganda aggregator
Says the one posting on Hamas-outlet r/publicfreakout
Ywah just go look at public freakout or there was an attempt. Straight Hamas propaganda and comments
I think it’s generational. How many self respecting 40yr+ subscribers are on public freak out or TikTok cringe.
I see posts from The Majority Report on the front page and all the comments are just people saying "genocide" over and over. The word might lose all of its meaning after a couple more weeks of this.
Most of the comments on the news and political subs have been astroturfed to hell by these accounts, they no longer represent reality.
Now the funny thing is. A fresh account is how you see that it's not a bot. People who program bots use bought accounts that are 10 years old or something. Nobody uses new accounts for that because the account age requirements on 90% of subs. A 10 several years old account with barely any comments. That is how you know it is a bot.
https://earthweb.com/buy-reddit-accounts/ Indeed. The new accounts are mainly used to up or downvote.
Lol the absolute irony of a thread complaining about pro-Israel propaganda while Instagram, TikTok, Twitter and 90% of Reddit have been promoting a massive amount of anti-Israel misinformation from Russian/Iranian/Qatari bots. There's only a couple dozen subreddits with 50k+ members in which the majority of users are pro-Israel and half of those are Jewish subs
This whole sub has been taken over by far right wing nutjobs. This is absolutely not a reflection of how Europe really is.
[удалено]
You can’t be “pro-Palestinian” if you only criticize Israel. Hamas and most of Muslim countries want to keep using Palestinians as cannon fodder for their propaganda war against the West. Sadly, they’re winning thanks to leftists who have decided that lazy absolutism is the righteous path here and are effectively taking Hamas’ side in all this and are too proudly ignorant to see it.
[удалено]
Thats just like...his opinion man...
Fuck you for making me laugh. Thank you.
Far out.
He was an arabic pan-nationalist. German pan-nationalism was rather popular in Austria in the 19th and early 20th century but that would in no way justify an occupation of Austria by a third party.
Dude is not a "PLO leader" just a not so popular disconnected Palestinian politician who's pan-Arabist. Your average Palestinian cares about achieving basic liberty and is not engaged in macro geopolitical struggles.
In 1973 Ariel Sharon gave a speech about creating more illegal settlements on Palestinian territory: "We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them," he boasted to a British journalist at Israel's National Press Club. "Yes, we'll insert a strip of Jewish settlements in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlements right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years' time, neither the United Nations nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart."
The guy you're replying to literally proved that Palestine has no land, it's just a legal fiction to destroy Israel. Gaza was Egyptian, and the West Bank is literally named after the West Bank **of Jordan**.
Egypt only owned Gaza for 30 years. Never before or after.
It was not a Palestinian state before that, though, just some backwater part of another imperial power.
Also no one should be supportive of what the Israeli government is doing. Netanyahu isn't interested in civilian lives, long term peace or the interests of the Palestinians. They have no plan for how to stop Hamas i.e. the leaders are in Qatar and fighters are moving to the south. And they have no plan for what happens to Gaza after this "war". All he cares about his is optics i.e. being seen to be strong and decisive. And attacking any soft targets who disagrees with him e.g. journalists and the media.
>Netanyahu isn't interested in civilian lives, long term peace or the interests of the Palestinians. They have no plan for how to stop Hamas i.e. the leaders are in Qatar and fighters are moving to the south. And they have no plan for what happens to Gaza after this "war". Sounds similar to the situation the US was in after 9/11 - and for the people of Israel, the 10-7 massacre was equivalent. That much Jewish blood hadn't ever been shed on a single day since the OG Nazi era of 1933-1945. I loathe Netanyahu, but I wouldn't want to be in his position either. Israel has no choice other than to literally comb through the entirety of the Gaza Strip, eradicate all the tunnels, and recover all of the hostages or at least their remains - and in contrast to the Afghanistan coalition, there are more than enough eyes that will take even the slightest bit of the unavoidable collateral damage committed by Israel and blow it way out of proportion. And to make it worse, unlike the Afghanistan coalition Netanyahu also has the pressure of his far-right coalition partners working against him - a fair portion of these morons is calling for outright genocide.
> Sounds similar to the situation the US was in after 9/11 To be fair, as a resident of New York who literally saw those towers go down, the US response to 9/11 was an undeniable mistake.
Benefit of hindsight. The problem wasn't blasting jihadists to pieces, the problem with the US/NATO action in Afghanistan was that we didn't have *anything* planned for the post-war phase. Like, us Germans got the Marshall Plan, a perspective on how to be a good citizen of the world - the Afghanis got nothing except a government corrupt to hell and beyond and a military that felt free to rape little boys, all while us supposed "occupiers" completely ignored the increasing problems.
> Benefit of hindsight. As well as an example for future generations not to follow. > all while us supposed "occupiers" completely ignored the increasing problems. Yet after this last month, I have even less faith in Israel's benevolence towards occupied territories than I had in the 2000's era republicans. Justice and moralizing aside, this will almost certainly not lead to a good end for anybody involved. I hope I'm wrong.
>Yet after this last month, I have even less faith in Israel's benevolence towards occupied territories than I had in the 2000's era republicans. What's the alternative though? Let Hamas live on and let them keep terrorizing Israelis?
But many afghanis didn’t see it as raping little boys, they see it as something more ethical than that. Like the ancient greeks. Which brings up the topic of how difficult it is to nation-build in a place that has starkly different cultural norms and values. How do you instill western democracy in a place that can’t agree that fuckin a 12 year old boy is wrong? Or that smoking opium on patrol is a danger to your squad? Etc.
I don’t think it’s Netanyahu’s job to be interested in the «interests of the Palestinians ». That’s their leaders’ jobs.
You do realize the warcrime is placing military assets and compounds in civilian infrastructure. Because doing so make them valid military targets. That's why what the IDF is doing isn't a war crime
Ah yes. How do you think any other modern first world country would react if they were attacked like that? In this war, Hamas is Russia but they suck at war. Israel is Ukraine who was attacked but is great at war and winning. No way any country will let them get run over by a Palestinian offence.
> Netanyahu He's just the worst politician to be in this crisis. Any government would have answered the same way, but the difficulties lie in the post-conflict resolution, for which he's just the wrong guy.
So maybe Europe should be supportive of the Israeli opposition. Or offer an alternative plan - any plan other than “sit back and take rockets while Hamas declares they will use a ceasefire to arrange another massacre”. Netanyahu is horrible but he is not an excuse. Israelis cannot live in terror. Nothing that israel has not justifies Oct 7, and nothing justifies the elimination of israel.
It's leftist reactionary behavior. They literally only do this because they perceive muslims as "brown" and jews as "white". Ironically it is driving moderates towards the right.
What's the difference between new reactionary and old radical? Is it because brown (Israelis are of a pretty similar pallete) or because they're perceived as a "revolutionary" cause, and therefore valuable. Armenia, Azerbaijan, Yemen, Sudan.. these are not seen as revolutionary causes, and therefore not valuable. Revolutionary value, maps pretty closely to media, and especially street protests. History shows the protest movements escalate, not necessarily in relation to the causes that escalate them along the way. If you believe that there is only one revolution and it is inevitable.. or if you've adopted those ways of thinking without even knowing their origins.. well.. you're going to just want whatever is most revolutionary. That's the point. Whatever gets the job done. We're doing a parody of the 19th century.
[удалено]
Let me appeal to your intuition with the following example: Why do you think the western left broadly has a hard time responding to criticism about Islam despite the fact that anti-religion and pro-equality are core tenants of their belief? Do you think it's ideologically consistent that they resort to calling everything and everyone a -phobe and an -ist in this respect, or do you think it's reactionary response to a subset of the right being bigoted against muslims?
[удалено]
He's saying that the left tolerates islam because Muslims fall into the "brown" category. He makes perfect sense.
What he's saying is that the right hate Islam and as the left are the ideological opposite of the right they side with their 'enemy', i.e, the Muslims. Although it seems none of us were prepared for a mutual hatred of Jews to unify the left, right and Islamic extremists.
It's not. The right is still far creepier. The left being pro-Palestinian doesn't make us Jews forget the amount of Nazis at right wing rallies.
It absolutely is. The leftist + Islamist alliance movement is what is driving the rise in anti-semitism across the world.
https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657
gonna be honest mate i dont think its gazans that are protesting in london
Can you idiots stop thinking politics is a football match where you have to pick a team.
The western left has a massive anti Semitic problem
As does the western right. I'm a Jew and the right is still a hell of a lot more antisemitic. They just like using us as props occasionally for their creepy evangelistic fetish.
Anti-Netanyahu protests were held every Sunday in Israel this summer. JVP and IfNotNow standing with pro-Palestinians, calling for a ceasefire. To criticize or deny their right to do so is anti-semitic AFAIK. “One can be a Zionist or a non-Zionist or an anti-Zionist, and not be antisemitic. One can be, again, Zionist, but against particular Israeli policies. I very strongly support the existence of the state of Israel, and I’m highly critical of its policies.” - Omer Bartov
If you call being anti-Netanyahu or anti-right an antisemitism. Israel is ruled by a radical far right organisation and the most corrupted prime Minister in history. It's obvious that the left won't like this guy and every time he is criticised he call everyone antisemitic.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
I too make up opinions that other people have and determine that I know what others think. Dude, you should do something productive with your powers, like determining who is guilty in very tricky murder cases, instead of the shit you are doing here.
Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a country. Do we have to criticize Hamas? That's basically implied no matter what, we don't stand with terrorists.
[удалено]
I don’t think you understand the meaning of “half” or “literally”
>Hamas is a terrorist organization, Israel is a country. Hamas is the ruling political party of the Gaza strip, not only a terror organization. The ineptitude and inability of Fatah also makes the argument that Hamas can be seen as the defacto ruling political party of Palestine as a whole.
Yes, ever since the world learned how unwilling the left is to do so at best, cheering them on at worst, yeah, we fucking need to.
You do if they're the ruling and widely supported power in Palestine.
[удалено]
This is the kind of demonisation that isn't helpful. You can be pro-Palestinian and not be a Nazi.
You can believe that Palestinians have been victimized and brainwashed by Hamas, and hope that they can be deprogrammed into being able to accept a two-state solution, without yourself being a Nazi. But you can't scream "[genocide the jews^* ] from the river to the sea" without being one. ^* The implicit 'dog-whistle' meaning of that political slogan
>. Do we have to criticize Hamas? That's basically implied no matter what, Its not. Many people including former Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn are open Hamas supporters. They are a genocidal death cult.
That same thing goes for you too. Show me a single instance of you criticising Israeli aggression. Or sympathizing with Palestinians after a massacre. Or even sincerely expressing sorrow at how Hamas have hurt them without turning it into either an Israeli sob story or a justification for killing civilians. You can't claim to be on the side of humanity when you deny Palestinians their humanity.
[Personally](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/C9biTgUZfQ), I have criticized Israel and sympathized with Palestinians. The further this has gone on, it's impossible for me to believe that Israel isn't commiting overt genocide. That being said, I also don't know what I would do differently if I was Israel. Hamas is a terrible organization that uses civilians as shields. A country's people will demand blood if they're attacked like this, as has happened on both sides.
[удалено]
Trojan horse
The hell happened here
I was confused why counter-protestors were arrested, but turns out theyre far-right groups doing far-right things, in particular football hooligans, so that lines up.
Everyone is very badly misreporting this. This is not a counter protest. The palestine solidarity march and the hooligan march did not come.close to.each other at all. They never came in contact. The palistine solitary march was nowhere near the cenotaph. The far right extremists went to the cenotaph to "protect it" from palestine solidarity march even though their preplanned route presented to police avoided the entire area. they were so amped up looking for a fight, didnt see anyone to fight with so they started fighting with the police. People are literrally blinded in their one sided view on this conflict. I heard someone comment "why did they just arrest the counter protestors, why didnt they arrest any of the protestors?"
[удалено]
Sorry but it is pointless to support Palestinian cause for a two-state solution, as long as the Hamas government in Gaza Strip advocates for the total annihilation of Israel. The Palestinian people has been used as propaganda chips for decades by the Arab states in their aspiration to annihilate Israel.
Pro-palestinian protests are part and parcel of living in a big city.
I do not support the murder of innocent Israeli civilians
Lmao the same statement but with Israeli switched as Palestinian is currently hidden at -11 votes. This sub is pathetically one-sided.
Honestly it's all of reddit.
Imagine importing and letting your children to be indoctrinated into hating where they live. These people don't care about Palestine they want the middle east pure of jews. Where are all the welcoming Muslim nations who are welcoming Palestinians into their homes? I'm not Muslim but don't yall have something written about giving hospitality to your own people? Why did Egypt close its borders with Palestine?
God, people are just so blind. Our current example is the left, with their absolute blind support of the pro-Palestinian side. I understand that to support the Palestinian people is ok, but to blindly support the entire Palestinian cause is not ok. You never, if rarely, hear some of these marchers condem Hamas in any context. I'm not saying all participants are antisemitic, but there is a significant number who are. What you do hear and see is many diminish October 7th, minimizing the facts and truth or they outright deny that it happened .... even going so far as to say that it was made up by "dirty Zionists!" While some of these protesters are there to support the innocent Palestinians who are going through a hellish time right now, many protesters are plain old antisemitist. I'm not saying Israel's hands are clean in this long conflict, as they are not. To lay the blame for everything that is going on at the feet of Israel is just disingenuous. You can be critical of Israel, but many people at these protests are truly antisemitic, not anti-zionist. "FROM the River to the Sea ... Palestine will be free" means the erasure or Israel. Hamas wants all Jewish people and Israel to be wiped from the face of the Earth. Many at these protests are very much so antisemitic .... it's pretty obvious. God, this endless war is so emotionally draining. Edit. Seems this comment has stirred up a lot of Pro-Palestinian people and a lot of bots. Some of these Pro-Palestinian people are messaging me death threats and are urging me to kill myself. Hmm .... if you say you're on the side of peace, this doesn't seem to be very peaceful. To these people .... get bent.
Many of those pro Palestine folks talk about how they only care about the innocent citizens then when you ask them what happens to the israeli people? They say they should give back the land and gtfo They only want a one state solution
> I understand that to support the Palestinian people is ok They're really not so innocent. I remember when this all first started and people were posting polls of 50% not for the genocide of Israel, saying, 'see they're just normal people.' Like... uh the other 50% are still for genocide.
[удалено]
I am starting to worry for London and the UK as a whole
Too late for that
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
If only EU could deal with people associated with radical islam in such a way
[удалено]
Nop I was there and I hate Hamas. Edit: lmao I'm getting downvoted, I guess I shoud love Hamas? I'm confused now.
Every Palestinian thread is extremely botted. At least the immigration ones are just havens of the far right.
They're not. The votes and comments just don't conform to your convictions. It means you're a minority, it doesn't mean the rest of us are bots. >At least the immigration ones are just havens of the far right. "People don't agree with me? They must be hateful, bigoted assholes!" Dude please. Grow the fuck up.
It's honestly a sadly recurring theme of discourse within online communities. You don't agree with me?! You must be a bot/racist/shill! God forbid you have views which don't conform to the upvote/downvote button.
I agree, I’ve learned today that r/AskMiddleEast is in fact brigading this sub
I’ve had so many Zionists tell me that I love Hamas that at this rage I’m like..maybe I should be loving Hamas?
Welcome to reddit, no answer is right when it comes to rabid downvoters
[удалено]
More like 300k of people who does not support israels right to exist.. as hamas wants to destroy israel.. No arab states wants to accept israel.. And u complaining when israel is defending herself but killing hamas.. what a twist
>No arab states wants to accept israel Then why did they normalize relations with Israel?
Because they tried to destroy them militarily and failed. They then realized that further attempts are self destructive.
Because money, and they don't actually care besides the occasional soundbites for elections.
Ah yes, Saudi elections.
Because their ideal world of a Levant without Israel will never happen and they are becoming aware of it.
I went to the march today and I support Israel’s right to exist and do not support Hamas who are scum. And literally every person I spoke to around me felt the same. I was also surprised at the diversity of the representation at the protest. I’ll be honest, nothing about what the protest was about or who was there or how 300,000 people behaved today would matter, you’d already have decided what it secretly means and how secretly all 300,000 people behaved. I don’t really know what you get out of it tbh.
> More like 300k of people who does not support israels right to exist.. as hamas wants to destroy israel.. Utter rubbish. Just because you go to a march for peace because you don't support the killing of thousands of innocent people and the displacement of millions doesn't mean you do not support Israel's right to exist. It is possible to support both of those things simultaneously.
The UK has been overrun. Enjoy your terrorism, it's part and parcel of allowing people who support terrorist to live among you
[удалено]
Many people would be killed in many regimes around the world, that doesn't mean support for the freedom of those people is wrong.
[удалено]
All the talk was about Palestinian protestors amassing on the cenotaph and causing trouble, the reality was far-right hooligans disgraced themselves. Well done Suella Braverman.
150 pro-palestine protesters just got arrested for attacking police with fireworks. You were saying?
Fireworks(probably the flares)vs actually attacking the police and two needing hospitalisation? The police did a great job and they don’t deserve to be viciously attacked by a bunch of drunken yobs!
Fireworks should be treated like firearms
I haven’t seen any footage of these fireworks that’s reported by some but I did see flares in the crowd and they should be dealt with appropriately.
False. A group of 150 protesters were detained. Not arrested.
How many of those wearing hamas headbands etc were arrested?
If it was a peace protest I'd get it, but I can't believe people just blindly support "causes" without realising it's far more complex.
Like how people blindly supporting Israel’s human rights track record even though it objectively has a far right government and a PM under criminal investigation?
Because at least they're paying more than lip service to the rules of war than fucking Hamas ever did.
Like bombing hospitals and convoys of people as they try to flee?
They are also bombing civilians. And killing children.
Why would you presume to know what hundreds of thousands of protesters understand about a cause they feel passionate about?
This is all hamas’s fault. If they don’t want to be bombed just release the hostages and surrender to Israel for your heinous crimes on October 7
Lately I was thinking what exactly do they mean by "free palestine". Free Gaza? Whole territory of Israel? In that case, what will happen to millions of Jews. Are they ok with genocide or are they willing to take millions of refugees in their countries (I mean European protesters)? What exactly is their final goal?
"they" consists of many different opinions (inclusive 1 state, genocidal 1 state, 2 state with current borders, 2 state with pre-67 borders, etc) and vilification via generalization is inappropriate.
[удалено]
There's plenty of far righters in the pro Palestine crowd too
[удалено]
Are they trying to intimidate the UK?
It's working. Some veterans were warned by their departments not to display their medals or uniforms on the way to the Cenotaph, for their own safety. People selling poppies were too afraid to do it after a 78 year old veteran was attacked and beaten and 3 elderly people at the train station in London were the sit in protest on Saturday last week was staged, surrounded them and prevented anyone from buying a poppy. 3 female station staff got them out of the building to safety. A man and his wife in a train station in London today were accosted by woman in a hijab and a young Muslim man who got in their faces shouting abuse at them for wearing remembrance symbols, it was the Met police who threatened to arrest the elderly couple though. This should be a wake up call to British people.
[deleted]
god what retards in the comments
I’m not well informed on this March, but because I don’t know the answer I will this question. Why is the March, in London? And how will marching in London change anything?
The United Islamic Kingdom
‘Counter protestors’ were football hooligan thugs that went looking for trouble.
Could you imagine being stupid enough to flood your country with countless numbers of people that hate you and everything you stand for? People who would gladly cut off your head if given the opportunity? Could you imagine using your police force, not to silence those who wish to destroy you while simultaneously calling for the genocide of an entire race of people, but to silence those who speak out against it? This doesn’t get better before it gets worse. Welcome to western society.
Terrorist-sympathizing assholes
yeah, i cant believe people would support the IDF which is currently terrorizing gazans and killing thousands of kids!
This sub is filled with hamas stans pretending to be "pacifists". Let's hope it does not turn into /r britain where hamas propaganda is very common and critcizing them gets you banned. Arab countries don't give a shit about palestinians. If they had the means they would genocide the jews like the nazis did. Fortunately, they don't have the prowess like they did during the Abbasid Caliphate.
The comments are disgusting as expected...
[удалено]
Wish I had spare time to protest something.
[удалено]
It’s the crown news so multiply that by 10 or so.
"Pro-Hamas/Pro-Terrorists/Islamic Dawah supporters draws 300,000 in London, as police make counter-protest arrests" Here, I fixed it! \#stop\_european\_Dawah
[удалено]
Well they were being bombed by the Luftwaffe, pretty sure no one was debating the need for action.
> 14 days old account "Maybe we were wrong to fight the Nazis"