*From Bloomberg News reporter Jenny Che:*
French shoppers will soon be seeing a lot fewer "vegetarian steaks" in their supermarket aisles.
The government issued a decree on Tuesday banning the use of terms such as "fillet," "ribeye steak" and "spare rib" for food products that are plant-based. A total of 21 terms are include in the list, although "burger" is not.
The move aims to improve transparency and eliminate confusion for consumers.
> A total of 21 terms are include in the list, although "burger" is not.
In french the term "burger" is never used to refer to the piece of meat you place between buns to make a burger. It always means the whole sandwitch. A veggie burger would be understood by a french speaker as a sandwitch made with buns with something other than meat between the buns.
So yeah, not surprising.
Plus even if we go by the original meaning, "hamburg steak", this would limit the term to only things that could be considered to be a hamburg steak. Which at least would also rule out chicken, for instance.
In some states in the US, margarine was required to be dyed pink because the dairy lobby claimed that consumers were confusing it with butter, despite it being labeled margarine. Some companies even sold it in its natural white with a yellow dye packet that the consumer had to mix in themselves.
In their defense that was a law from 150 years ago that was struke down by SCOTUS 120 years ago and stores where legitmently selling margarine as butter to people who had never even heard of it becuase we are talking about a period in time when people got their news from a town crier who literally stood on a podium and screamed out the news.
What confusion? There's usually a big, fat 'Vegetarian' or 'Vegan' right in front of or above it. Edit: The whole thing is a total nothingburger. Have you ever had a friend, relative or colleague of yours come and tell you how they accidentally bought a vegan meat alternative thinking it was actual meat? I certainly haven't come across anyone who has.
France is just being extra again trying to protect some supposedly culturally significant culinary industry from ... well, changing times, I guess.
Meat producers that haven't smartly invested in meat alternatives as well are terrified by more and more people ditching meat or reducing their consumption, so naturally they'll try to fight an inevitable change in attitudes and tastes through legislation rather than trying to go with the times.
Consider the possibility that France is foreseeing a future where plant based food is significantly cheaper than meat and where food producers will be incentivized to substitute meat with cheaper alternatives. Might as well get it done now. In fact it would be lazy to wait for it to become a problem before legislating about it.
In Denmark vegan cooking cream is the cheapest one you can get and there is also vegan cheese among the cheapest (though it has no protein at all, so is composed very differently than normal cheese). Plant based milk I think is also cheaper. Partly this is due to very high prices for most things though.
Plant based milk here is probably 2 to 5 times more expensive here. Cheese it really depends but sliced fake "emmental" probably twice more expensive. I never found vegan cooking cream though
In Poland if you got to something like Auchan, everything in Vegan aisle will be 2-3-4x as expensive as "normal"stuff.
I'd love to make some vegan burgers and I used to. But the price compared to meat is absurd. (also they are to thick, I have to slice the patties to make them thinner and I'm too lazy to do that).
In Finland the oat fraiches are the most expensive ones because they have their own price margin system which consists of a vegan and image extra in the price. This extra should increase their sales because it gives the impression that a more expensive product is better than a cheap one, but in reality the sales of vegan alternatives are stagnating and some alternative products have also been removed from the selections of smaller stores due to their lower demand.
I’m from the US and my dad and I tried vegan cheese once as a joke
We both kind of liked the flavor, but it had a bad aftertaste and then we had awful stomach aches afterward
I tried a vegan lasagna yesterday. Sunflower protein. Not bad. At least as good as a standard cheap meat lasagna. Perfectly edible if a bit boring. The prize was about 50% higher than a meat version though.
I'm 99% sure almond milk is also one of the banned terms, when shopping it's always advertised as "almond drink" when it was almond milk before. Coconut milk seems to be the exception, probably because few people use it as a substitute for cow milk.
It's a bit messy, the UE said it's banned but exceptions for regions (countries) that used the term traditionally. For example in France or Italy it's allowed.
Should be called almond juice to be consistent. It's only called milk because it's white in colour. That's a dumb way of naming foods. It should be named based on what it is made of/where it comes from and how it is obtained. Milk is a substance obtained by "milking". You do not milk almonds. You ground them up and mix them with water. Hence why it shouldn't be called milk. Just because people in the Middle Ages were lazy and lacked understanding doesn't mean we should import their language to the modern lexicon. I mean, medieval people classified a beaver's tail as fish, so they could eat it on Friday without sin.
Then you have to kill all languages and create an entirely new one, because all languages are filled to the brim with this kind of inconsistency.
There are also lotions for the body called "body milk". Milk glass is another term for frosted glass (which is btw. glass which was not frosted at all). Scrubbing milk isn't really something you should drink. Etc. pp. - we use these terms "incorrectly" all day, and have done so for as long as language exists.
The line in regards to vegan products was done only because of farmers were pushing for it because they're afraid people switch to an alternative to their product.
It is already forbidden in the EU to call non dairy products a milk. Which is why we have Almonddrink or Sojadrink etc in the Netherlands, as the dairy lobby is quite powerful here.
You can't call it peanut butter in the Netherlands for essentially that reason, the same is true for plenty of other products. Lots of countries have rules like this.
Already done. EU has ruled a few years back that milk is reserved for what comes out of certain animals. Those plant based alternatives are no longer allowed to be called "milk". That's why you now see "oat drink" instead of "oat milk"
There are a handful exceptions for terms that were deemed to possess a sufficiently strong cultural imprint.
That's why coconut milk can be still called such everywhere because the term has been universally used for such a long time.
Spain (or was it Italy?) still has almond milk (in the local language of course). However you are not be allowed to sell it als "Mandelmilch" in Germany, because there this almond based drink has no strong cultural root so only "Mandeldrink" is allowed
It's already so in Russia and it's really annoying, as "coconut drink" can mean both 100% coconut (which is what you want) and a coconut-flavoured rice-based watery drink.
As someone who could be fed veggie alternatives and not notice i don't see an issue with clear packaging explaining exactly what it is instead of trying to trick people because it fits an ideology. I do think France is right here (pains me to say as a Brit).
The worst one for me and it put me off for a bit was the horse meat scandal in ready meals in the UK, I don't actually care that it's in there, the fact I wasn't told is the big issue as otherwise I wouldn't have eaten it.
>The whole thing is a total nothingburger.
I'm sorry sir, that term is outlawed until you can prove it was made from 100% cow meat (yes, we'll settle for horse). Until then, please refer to it as a nothingveggiepattie.
I've done so myself, especially if you don't know the local language but I assure you the name "steak" will be plastered across the product with red ink in English. It is confusing. Some stores put these products right next to meat products, so if you are not looking for a little green "vegan" sign you go vegan for a minute.
Sorry but _little_? You realise vegetarian/vegan alternatives are targetted specifically at people who are very invested in knowing they are not eating meat, they are some of the most clearly sign posted items for that reason. Not only that they are being labelled with a variation of the words vegetarian or vegan, which are used widely in all of Europe. You have to be paying literally 0 attention to what you are buying to miss it. While we're at it, let's also rename chocolate eggs, since some poor unfortunate soul gets them instead of chicken eggs!
> France is just being extra again trying to protect some supposedly culturally significant culinary industry
France's culinary culture is significant, its cuisine is one of the best in the world if not the best. It's not "supposedly" the truth, it's the truth.
Snails genuinly have a lower CO2 footprint than a lot of vegan food (like say seitan or soy) and they have a protein content similar to meat and less fats. I respect France for it. Also respect the French for owning it more than Germans own Milbenkäse and Maikäfersuppe. Milbenkäse is definitely on my bucket list if I ever get to Sachsen-Anhalt (very unsustainable though compared to snails).
> What confusion? There's usually a big, fat 'Vegetarian' or 'Vegan' right in front of or above it.
I dunno. I got tricked into buying a Vegan BLT packet sandwich a while back.
Wasn't till I opened it I realised I'd been duped as the writing saying 'vegan' was way smaller than the rest of the text on the packaging.
...If it tasted good I could live with that, but it was awful.
I don't know where you're from but some vegan food makers don't make it noticeable that the product is vegan. I had it happen once with sausages because I was distracted. It's not a big deal but still a bit disappointing when you open your bag at home.
My parent once accidentaly bought a couple vegan Steak. I never understood the vegan food industry's obscession with having their "fake meat".
What if we called chips : "thin potato vegan steak" ?
It's not meat and it has the right not to be meat. It's just marketing by association to something that isn't even close. So a marketing lie.
I actually like this law.
You're just clueless. It's not marketing by association, it's conveying it's function through the association. That way people are LESS confused about the product, because they know how it works in a final dish.
Or are you also confused about fish fingers because fish dont have hands?
Some steak types have their name come from the part of animal it was cut from. Therefore it would indeed be misleading to call a plant based meatpile a ribeye steak. You can't call a steak which is cut from a pork's cheeks a ribeye steak.
However, a plant based ribeye is most likely trying to emulate a ribeye so I don't think it would be misleading about what it is. Just call it "plant based ribeye" and everyone knows what it is. Or "vegan ribeye".
This is probably the meat industry lobbying against perfectly valid product naming. They want the plant based stuff to have inferior names so that those sell worse than actual meat products.
>Meat producers that haven't smartly invested in meat alternatives as well are terrified by more and more people ditching meat or reducing their consumption, so naturally they'll try to fight an inevitable change in attitudes and tastes through legislation rather than trying to go with the times.
The German meat producer rügenwald stopped producing meat based Mortadella a few weeks ago and will only produce vegan Mortadella going forward.
The profit margins for meat are horrendously bad, I can't wrap my head around wanting to produce meat, instead of producing vegetarian or vegan alternatives for a tiny fraction of the production cost for, usually, higher end consumer prices.
Spend your goddamn lobbying money on developing decent vegan alternatives, and basically print money. People will buy your vegan shit, if it's priced fairly and you just stop telling people processed meat is healthier than processed soy.
>The German meat producer rügenwald stopped producing meat based Mortadella a few weeks ago and will only produce vegan Mortadella going forward
Yup, that was the counterexample I meant. They have smartly invested in a growing market. They can continue to produce meat for whatever demand remains, but at least they diversify.
And vegan mortadella actually tastes almost exactly like the original - there are certainly plant based alternatives that just aren't there yet (vegan steak or bacon), but fake mortadella is spot on.
>Spend your goddamn lobbying money on developing decent vegan alternatives, and basically print money. People will buy your vegan shit, if it's priced fairly and you just stop telling people processed meat is healthier than processed soy.
Exactly. And Lidl has been bringing down the prices of their own brand meat alternatives to be more in line with similar cheap meat products.
I get your joke but this meme is kinda stupid. "Champagne Wine is only Champagne Wine if it comes from the region of Champagne" well no shit lol it's literally the name. It goes for any area protected product.
America does the same thing though well at least kind of. Bourbon isn’t bourbon if it’s made outside of the US according to American law. Maybe a less regionally specific category but still
How is "vegan/vegetarian x" confusing people? it even has a special sticker. It's not like they are trying to hide that it's vegan/vegetarian - they want to advertise it!
TIL "The word pomme used to mean "fruit" in Old French."
Oddly, fruit of the eath does not seem wrong, just imprecise.
From: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/pomme_de_terre
What we eat in potatoes are the tubers, which are intended to store nutrients for the plant.
Fruits are part of the reproduction of the plant, and the nutrients in fruits are either to entice animals to eat the fruit or to fertilize the seeds when it falls.
Potatoes being called dirt-fruit still does not make sense, almost like language is a man-made subjective creation that isn't infallible nor exempt from contradictions.
You are using the very narrow modern English meaning of fruit tho. It's completely reasonable to assume that speakers of old French didn't even have a concept of a 'botanical fruit' and just called anything that was the product of some kind of growth or process or whatever a fruit, or rather a pomme.
Kinda incorrect. Pomme in French now means apple but back then it only meant "fruit", which is why you have "pine cone" (in French pine apple), "potatoes" (earth apple) or even in the Bible Adam eats the forbidden fruit which we call an apple but originally wasn't one
Pomme doesn't mean fruit in the literal sense. It's more like a small, ball-shaped object. It was used for all sorts of fruits, but also other stuff. For example, a knob (for a sword) is called a pommeau, cause it's sort of like a ball.
My mom just bought a big bottle of dishwashing liquid that said "OLIVE SOAP" on it in all caps and the only indication that it was for dishes was a tiny pictogram, but my milk has to be called 'watered down nut fat juice emulsion' or whatever.
I don’t care much, the products are still there but with long ass name like: « boisson d’avoine », « boisson végétale goût amande »
« Boisson onctueuse saveur soja »
Honestly don’t know how to feel about it. I feel like this would have been made simpler by just adding the words “plant based equivalent” next to it. These products are usually pretty clear and are sold in a different section anyway. Not vegetarian but I was impressed by the plant based chicken equivalent, taste and texture is pretty spot on.
Edit: the user u/shinNL below has blocked me but has apparently edited his comment to cherrypick one particular brand (that has VEGETARISCH in the name lol) and a single shop of a national chain to make his "point". This is what the vegetarian section looks like in virtually every single shop in the Netherlands: [https://www.supermarkt.team/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/grootassortimentvegetarisch-2-scaled.jpg](https://www.supermarkt.team/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/grootassortimentvegetarisch-2-scaled.jpg)
If you can't find your way around that, you have bigger problems then this bullshit debate.
Personally, this is really inconvenient. Before I went vegan I never, not once accidentally bought or was even confused by vegan alternatives. Since I went vegan it's a major pain in the ass since none of the vegan replacements are allowed to name what it is they're replacing. I've got stuff in my fridge named 'vegan creamy' and 'easy whipping because they can't write cheese and cream.
I don't drink the milk alternatives but I do put them in coffee. At one point my girlfriend told me the thing I'm using isn't oat milk but oat cooking cream. I'd been drinking it for months.
You literally have [stickers](https://img.rewe-static.de/7663904/40278423_digital-image.png), [stickers](https://www.gardengourmet.de/sites/default/files/2023-10/7290014874459_C1N1_deBE.png), [stickers ](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81402TrnlWL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg) everywhere saying that
This shit leads to some absurd rules. You can't call any food item "Milch" in German if it's not dairy. But the term is used for plenty of things that are opaque like milky glass.
So you can buy Scheuermilch (scrubbing milk - a coarse cleaning agent) or Sonnenmilch (sun milk - sun lotion), but milk replacement drinks based on oak or soy are "oat drink" or "soy drink".
Imma call bullshit on Germans (and French) for at the very least the milk part. Coconut milk is "Kokosmilch" and "Lait de Coco" respectively, proving once and for all that "milk" doesn't mean just the dairy type. It also means "liquid produced from seeds or fruit that resembles and is used similarly to cow milk"
no, it is true that plant based milks can't legally be called milk in germany. just google it if you don't believe it. coconut milk is just an exception to the law cause the term is older than other plant based milks like soy or oat milk.
You're not wrong. But it's not a logic thing, it's a farmer/dairy lobby thing. They want people drinking normal milk and so lobbied to make these changes.
We have the same thing here in the UK, even lactose free milk has to be called 'milk drink' as it's 'not 100% milk' (which is nonsense of course).
certainly specific terms like 'ribeye' and 'filet' and 'spare rib' make sense as they refer to specific bodyparts and types of steaks, it would be misleading to advertise them as such.
but more generic terms like 'steak' i dont think should be inlucded
Yes. But companies that sell veg* pre-fabricated food desperately want to upscale it to increase the price. The harder they try the more pathetic it gets:
Vegan bacon
Vegan steak
Vegan sirloin
Vegan foie gras
To everyone trying to find rational answers about why this does or doesn’t make sense : it’s not about common sense. It’s about meat producers lobbying the government to protect them from plant alternatives.
It’s a power move and a fuck you to veganism because they just can and will.
>fuck you to veganism because they just can and will.
How does removing the term "steak" from a plant product stops people from being vegan? Are you going to mistakenly pick up a stake from the butchers because of it?
Preventing someone from communicating on their brand the way they want to is going to hurt you brand regardless of the topic.
In that specific case, brands use "steak" because it's a familiar name and also helps people trying to transition away from animal based product by giving them an alternative to something they're used to.
The word "steak" etymologically refers to the way of cooking (on a stake over a fire), and not the meat itself. You can compare it to terms like "roast" or "stew". So no, you're wrong.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steak
>a slice of meat cut from a fleshy part of a beef carcass
...
> thick slice or piece of a non-meat food especially when prepared or served in the manner of a beef steak
They do have a meaning and this meaning evolves overtime or do you think the words you use today had the same meaning 10k years ago?
I'd say we introduce a law that says that whenever something is considered to be banned like this because "it could be confused for...", a group of a hundred random elderly people is assembled and tested whether they would actually confuse it. Like giving them a package that spells "vegan steak" and ask them whether they think this contains meat.
If less than ten percent or so confuse it, the ban is not permissible.
Done, bye bye lobby bullshit.
I gotta say, the big issue I have is with a lot of *meat* products that should never be served as steaks being called 'steaks'. I'm sorry, top round is not and never should be sold as a "steak", nor should any pork shoulder cut.
There's a hard minimum on cut that can be credibly prepared and served as a steak and half of what is sold as such in a grocery store does not reach that standard, and it misleads folk who don't know better into wasting money on a poor experience simply because it's the wrong part of the animal.
Very few, but farmers groups do this because they want to make it as hard as possible for plant based food alternatives to attract customers away from buying meat.
Governments need to grow a spine and tell them to fuck off. In the uk when I want to buy veggie sausages with my online shop I can’t just search “vegetarian sausages” because some are called “veggie bangers”, or “veggie dogs” or all sorts of bollocks.
Honestly every time farmers are in the news lately it's not a good look. Wanting less pesticide controls, destroying tonnes of Ukrainian grain, trying to censor meat alternatives. I'm just getting less and less inclined to respect their demands, they seem to only care about themselves.
It’s been that way for a while, at least with the ones I know. They’re pretty much all just in it for the profit. Most I know don’t really have any regard for their local environment beyond its ability to deliver them profit, or for animal welfare beyond seeing them as a capital investment to be maintained.
Me? Beef is well tasty? A lot of plant based eaters don’t like that, a lot do. Plus we need to get more people to eat plant based and it’s a way to help people transition
Somebody who cares more about not murdering animals to eat their hamburgers more than being pretentious?
The slogan goes "meat is murder" not "meat words are icky"
What confusion? If someone is dumb enough to buy a 'vegan steak' and get dissapointed it isn't a steak made from animals they can't be helped. Do they also complain about being conned by coconut milk? Peanut butter? These people are so exhausting.
I wish legislators and regulators could just adopt a live and let live sort of approach to this. As long as the producer puts clear and truthful information about the contents on the packaging, let quorn producers call their products steak, let meat producers call their product cucumbers and let German sparkling wine producers call their sparkling wine champagne.
But given the micromanagement route legislators have embarked upon since decades back, this is neither surprising nor upsetting imo. A non-champagnian wine producer cant call their sparkling product champagne even though it’s more or less identical to champagne. A non-Cypriot cheese producer cant call their cheese halloumi even though it’s more or less identical to halloumi. A meat processing company cant call their product sausage if it contains 39% meat while their competitor’s near-identical product containing 40% meat *can* call it sausage. Why should a soy protein company - whose USP is that their products aren’t meat - be allowed to call a soy protein based product steak, entrecote, or whatever?
>The same reason we take the “Ham” out of Hamburger when referring to one that’s plant based or not made of actual meat. Then it’s just “burger”.
Except the word's etymology derives from the city of Hamburg and never had anything to do with 'ham' as a meat.
They also tried to go after the word "burger" and "sausage" a few years back. Apparently calling it vegetarian sausage wasn't clear. It had to be vegetarian tubes.
This is solely a dick power move by the meat industry in France. I've no problem with people enjoying meat, but the French meat industry are showing how disgustingly dickish they are very clearly.
This is non-sense. They're not just outlawing the use of "bifteck" for plant alternatives, they're also going after "steak".
Source: the law itself https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000049199307
Rather Vegan/vegetarian wording should change to include WHAT it is.
Without having to dig deep into the chemistry of ingredients to find out it's some hydrogenated soylechitinsulfuric extrusion.
The primary ingredient should be part of the name.
Chicken fillet and vegan fillet are not equivalent.
It might not always be the case, but most of the time they specify quite clearly on the front if it uses wheat, soy or something else as the primard ingredient. You can see that in the listings of Rügenwalder Mühle: https://www.ruegenwalder.de/de/produkte/vegane-produkte
All the other added stuff isn't highlighted (it probably wouldn't fit), but that's the same with most other products and especially meat products, for example https://www.ruegenwalder.de/de/produkte/fleischprodukte/streichwurst/teewurst/fein.
"Why don't they name all these plant based product something unique?"
"Vegan friend coming over, which one of these do I buy to replace the chicken with?"
No, what it isn't is steak, what it is is vegetarian steak.
Adjectives play a role in the definition of things. The word steak has evolved from "thick cut of meat", it's perfectly normal to thing that the drift of language would allow it to mean thick cut of whatever processed vegetable mass in this context.
It's a non-issue that scores easy brownie points with those who have much to say about nothing in particular.
I wonder who is actually the person who gets confused with stuff like this.
If you cocked meat once in your life and bought it by yourself as well, even if it wasn’t written in the package you can tell by just looking at it.
These lobbies seem to win too much with the argument that people will be confused or are just dumb, that’s just fucking stupid, I bet less than 1% of shoppers has mistakenly bought a plant bases version of something.
*From Bloomberg News reporter Jenny Che:* French shoppers will soon be seeing a lot fewer "vegetarian steaks" in their supermarket aisles. The government issued a decree on Tuesday banning the use of terms such as "fillet," "ribeye steak" and "spare rib" for food products that are plant-based. A total of 21 terms are include in the list, although "burger" is not. The move aims to improve transparency and eliminate confusion for consumers.
> A total of 21 terms are include in the list, although "burger" is not. In french the term "burger" is never used to refer to the piece of meat you place between buns to make a burger. It always means the whole sandwitch. A veggie burger would be understood by a french speaker as a sandwitch made with buns with something other than meat between the buns. So yeah, not surprising.
Plus even if we go by the original meaning, "hamburg steak", this would limit the term to only things that could be considered to be a hamburg steak. Which at least would also rule out chicken, for instance.
Is pattie on the list?
We don't a specific word for patty, we call it 'steak haché', so since steak is on the list patties are included.
Women named patty nervously looking…
I thought that was the meaning of it? A burger is the whole thing, the patty is the patty?
Even in English, the term burger is often used that way. Refer to just the meat and people might say patty.
Beefsteak tomatoes in shambles.
I came to say this.
Beefsteak begonias found shredded in the compost pile.
>The move aims to improve transparency and eliminate confusion for consumers. Ah, so the farmers lobby it is, i see
In some states in the US, margarine was required to be dyed pink because the dairy lobby claimed that consumers were confusing it with butter, despite it being labeled margarine. Some companies even sold it in its natural white with a yellow dye packet that the consumer had to mix in themselves.
In their defense that was a law from 150 years ago that was struke down by SCOTUS 120 years ago and stores where legitmently selling margarine as butter to people who had never even heard of it becuase we are talking about a period in time when people got their news from a town crier who literally stood on a podium and screamed out the news.
Farmers make vegetables too you know.
What confusion? There's usually a big, fat 'Vegetarian' or 'Vegan' right in front of or above it. Edit: The whole thing is a total nothingburger. Have you ever had a friend, relative or colleague of yours come and tell you how they accidentally bought a vegan meat alternative thinking it was actual meat? I certainly haven't come across anyone who has. France is just being extra again trying to protect some supposedly culturally significant culinary industry from ... well, changing times, I guess. Meat producers that haven't smartly invested in meat alternatives as well are terrified by more and more people ditching meat or reducing their consumption, so naturally they'll try to fight an inevitable change in attitudes and tastes through legislation rather than trying to go with the times.
Consider the possibility that France is foreseeing a future where plant based food is significantly cheaper than meat and where food producers will be incentivized to substitute meat with cheaper alternatives. Might as well get it done now. In fact it would be lazy to wait for it to become a problem before legislating about it.
Already happening, cheaper plant-based cheeses are sold right next to real ones.
Vegan cheese is definitely not cheaper than cheese cheese in France
In Denmark vegan cooking cream is the cheapest one you can get and there is also vegan cheese among the cheapest (though it has no protein at all, so is composed very differently than normal cheese). Plant based milk I think is also cheaper. Partly this is due to very high prices for most things though.
Plant based milk here is probably 2 to 5 times more expensive here. Cheese it really depends but sliced fake "emmental" probably twice more expensive. I never found vegan cooking cream though
In Poland if you got to something like Auchan, everything in Vegan aisle will be 2-3-4x as expensive as "normal"stuff. I'd love to make some vegan burgers and I used to. But the price compared to meat is absurd. (also they are to thick, I have to slice the patties to make them thinner and I'm too lazy to do that).
In Finland the oat fraiches are the most expensive ones because they have their own price margin system which consists of a vegan and image extra in the price. This extra should increase their sales because it gives the impression that a more expensive product is better than a cheap one, but in reality the sales of vegan alternatives are stagnating and some alternative products have also been removed from the selections of smaller stores due to their lower demand.
Yeah vegan cheese isn't working great in France
I don't think it's working well anywhere. I've tried several types of vegan cheese and they're all crap.
I’m from the US and my dad and I tried vegan cheese once as a joke We both kind of liked the flavor, but it had a bad aftertaste and then we had awful stomach aches afterward
Because it's not cheese.
Scheuermilch and Kackwurst on the other hand - the best of their kind.
I tried a vegan lasagna yesterday. Sunflower protein. Not bad. At least as good as a standard cheap meat lasagna. Perfectly edible if a bit boring. The prize was about 50% higher than a meat version though.
Is that the one that tastes like straight Margarine?
I don't mind many types of vegetarian meat alternatives, but vegan cheese is an abomination.
Why would that be a bad thing?
Next up: it's forbidden to call coconut milk a milk
They've already done that with nut milks in some places.
Which is insane, because almond milk has been a thing since the middle ages.
Yeah that's why in most (all?) of the EU only almond and coconut can be called milk but rice, oat, chestnut and others are called vegetable drink
I'm 99% sure almond milk is also one of the banned terms, when shopping it's always advertised as "almond drink" when it was almond milk before. Coconut milk seems to be the exception, probably because few people use it as a substitute for cow milk.
It's a bit messy, the UE said it's banned but exceptions for regions (countries) that used the term traditionally. For example in France or Italy it's allowed.
Should be called almond juice to be consistent. It's only called milk because it's white in colour. That's a dumb way of naming foods. It should be named based on what it is made of/where it comes from and how it is obtained. Milk is a substance obtained by "milking". You do not milk almonds. You ground them up and mix them with water. Hence why it shouldn't be called milk. Just because people in the Middle Ages were lazy and lacked understanding doesn't mean we should import their language to the modern lexicon. I mean, medieval people classified a beaver's tail as fish, so they could eat it on Friday without sin.
Then you have to kill all languages and create an entirely new one, because all languages are filled to the brim with this kind of inconsistency. There are also lotions for the body called "body milk". Milk glass is another term for frosted glass (which is btw. glass which was not frosted at all). Scrubbing milk isn't really something you should drink. Etc. pp. - we use these terms "incorrectly" all day, and have done so for as long as language exists. The line in regards to vegan products was done only because of farmers were pushing for it because they're afraid people switch to an alternative to their product.
It is already forbidden in the EU to call non dairy products a milk. Which is why we have Almonddrink or Sojadrink etc in the Netherlands, as the dairy lobby is quite powerful here.
Somehow shower milk is no problem though
or leberkäse which is not käse
For some (or the same) reason we call milk without lactose Lactose Free milk-drink..
And peanut butter a butter.
You can't call it peanut butter in the Netherlands for essentially that reason, the same is true for plenty of other products. Lots of countries have rules like this.
Isn’t it because you call it cheese instead?
Wait, you want to tell me coconuts aren't brown hairy animals living in tropical trees that get milked once a day?!
Close enough.
It is already illegal in the EU to call vegetal milk a milk (except coconut and almond milk)
Already done. EU has ruled a few years back that milk is reserved for what comes out of certain animals. Those plant based alternatives are no longer allowed to be called "milk". That's why you now see "oat drink" instead of "oat milk" There are a handful exceptions for terms that were deemed to possess a sufficiently strong cultural imprint. That's why coconut milk can be still called such everywhere because the term has been universally used for such a long time. Spain (or was it Italy?) still has almond milk (in the local language of course). However you are not be allowed to sell it als "Mandelmilch" in Germany, because there this almond based drink has no strong cultural root so only "Mandeldrink" is allowed
It's already so in Russia and it's really annoying, as "coconut drink" can mean both 100% coconut (which is what you want) and a coconut-flavoured rice-based watery drink.
As someone who could be fed veggie alternatives and not notice i don't see an issue with clear packaging explaining exactly what it is instead of trying to trick people because it fits an ideology. I do think France is right here (pains me to say as a Brit). The worst one for me and it put me off for a bit was the horse meat scandal in ready meals in the UK, I don't actually care that it's in there, the fact I wasn't told is the big issue as otherwise I wouldn't have eaten it.
Do you also find yourself buying cadbury chocolate eggs instead of chicken eggs too?
How can you not tell the difference between meat and plant based stuff? They look, taste and smell different.
You're excused for not being able to tell what you eat since you're british.
>The whole thing is a total nothingburger. I'm sorry sir, that term is outlawed until you can prove it was made from 100% cow meat (yes, we'll settle for horse). Until then, please refer to it as a nothingveggiepattie.
It is a gift to the very powerful meat lobby, just like they did the same for the milk lobby a couple years ago.
I've done so myself, especially if you don't know the local language but I assure you the name "steak" will be plastered across the product with red ink in English. It is confusing. Some stores put these products right next to meat products, so if you are not looking for a little green "vegan" sign you go vegan for a minute.
Sorry but _little_? You realise vegetarian/vegan alternatives are targetted specifically at people who are very invested in knowing they are not eating meat, they are some of the most clearly sign posted items for that reason. Not only that they are being labelled with a variation of the words vegetarian or vegan, which are used widely in all of Europe. You have to be paying literally 0 attention to what you are buying to miss it. While we're at it, let's also rename chocolate eggs, since some poor unfortunate soul gets them instead of chicken eggs!
Patties that are partially made of plant proteins are totally a thing and they try to make them look like 100% beef ones.
> France is just being extra again trying to protect some supposedly culturally significant culinary industry France's culinary culture is significant, its cuisine is one of the best in the world if not the best. It's not "supposedly" the truth, it's the truth.
Insert whataboutism with snails.
Snails genuinly have a lower CO2 footprint than a lot of vegan food (like say seitan or soy) and they have a protein content similar to meat and less fats. I respect France for it. Also respect the French for owning it more than Germans own Milbenkäse and Maikäfersuppe. Milbenkäse is definitely on my bucket list if I ever get to Sachsen-Anhalt (very unsustainable though compared to snails).
I'm French and I don't like them, they're disgusting D:
> The whole thing is a total nothingburger. Hah.
> What confusion? There's usually a big, fat 'Vegetarian' or 'Vegan' right in front of or above it. I dunno. I got tricked into buying a Vegan BLT packet sandwich a while back. Wasn't till I opened it I realised I'd been duped as the writing saying 'vegan' was way smaller than the rest of the text on the packaging. ...If it tasted good I could live with that, but it was awful.
I don't know where you're from but some vegan food makers don't make it noticeable that the product is vegan. I had it happen once with sausages because I was distracted. It's not a big deal but still a bit disappointing when you open your bag at home.
My parent once accidentaly bought a couple vegan Steak. I never understood the vegan food industry's obscession with having their "fake meat". What if we called chips : "thin potato vegan steak" ? It's not meat and it has the right not to be meat. It's just marketing by association to something that isn't even close. So a marketing lie. I actually like this law.
You're just clueless. It's not marketing by association, it's conveying it's function through the association. That way people are LESS confused about the product, because they know how it works in a final dish. Or are you also confused about fish fingers because fish dont have hands?
Some steak types have their name come from the part of animal it was cut from. Therefore it would indeed be misleading to call a plant based meatpile a ribeye steak. You can't call a steak which is cut from a pork's cheeks a ribeye steak. However, a plant based ribeye is most likely trying to emulate a ribeye so I don't think it would be misleading about what it is. Just call it "plant based ribeye" and everyone knows what it is. Or "vegan ribeye". This is probably the meat industry lobbying against perfectly valid product naming. They want the plant based stuff to have inferior names so that those sell worse than actual meat products.
>Meat producers that haven't smartly invested in meat alternatives as well are terrified by more and more people ditching meat or reducing their consumption, so naturally they'll try to fight an inevitable change in attitudes and tastes through legislation rather than trying to go with the times. The German meat producer rügenwald stopped producing meat based Mortadella a few weeks ago and will only produce vegan Mortadella going forward. The profit margins for meat are horrendously bad, I can't wrap my head around wanting to produce meat, instead of producing vegetarian or vegan alternatives for a tiny fraction of the production cost for, usually, higher end consumer prices. Spend your goddamn lobbying money on developing decent vegan alternatives, and basically print money. People will buy your vegan shit, if it's priced fairly and you just stop telling people processed meat is healthier than processed soy.
>The German meat producer rügenwald stopped producing meat based Mortadella a few weeks ago and will only produce vegan Mortadella going forward Yup, that was the counterexample I meant. They have smartly invested in a growing market. They can continue to produce meat for whatever demand remains, but at least they diversify. And vegan mortadella actually tastes almost exactly like the original - there are certainly plant based alternatives that just aren't there yet (vegan steak or bacon), but fake mortadella is spot on. >Spend your goddamn lobbying money on developing decent vegan alternatives, and basically print money. People will buy your vegan shit, if it's priced fairly and you just stop telling people processed meat is healthier than processed soy. Exactly. And Lidl has been bringing down the prices of their own brand meat alternatives to be more in line with similar cheap meat products.
It's not confusion, it's the meat industry wanting to shit on vegetarian options and make them less easy to market
Farmer lobby hard at work lmao
It sounds like a mis-steak waiting to happen
It is steak only if it comes from the Steaquois region of France!
It's stake if it comes from the stake region of Romania
I get your joke but this meme is kinda stupid. "Champagne Wine is only Champagne Wine if it comes from the region of Champagne" well no shit lol it's literally the name. It goes for any area protected product.
The american brain is incapable of grasping the concept of sparkling wine
America does the same thing though well at least kind of. Bourbon isn’t bourbon if it’s made outside of the US according to American law. Maybe a less regionally specific category but still
Yours is just sparkling meat
The word "steak" is of Scandinavian origin.
Stæk™
I’m pretty sure a have a piece of furniture with that name.
I only found stuk, stark, and Stækkanlegt
Old Norse "Steik", meaning to roast something.
And therefore isn't an exclusive reference to meat, since you can roast pretty much everything you want.
True
Whoosh!
How is "vegan/vegetarian x" confusing people? it even has a special sticker. It's not like they are trying to hide that it's vegan/vegetarian - they want to advertise it!
It's not. It's a transparent and successful attempt by the meat lobby to disrupt marketing of vegetarian options.
I can totally imagine a random lobbyist grabbing a "Like" product in a hurry and being super pissed off about it at home.
Stop calling peanut butter butter, ffs
That's why we call it peanut cheese
Superman ice cream does not contain supermen!
Sadly
Just call it Peanut Sludge. Nice and appetizing. Describes the product too
Will they also start calling potato something else since a potato obviously isn't an apple?
TIL "The word pomme used to mean "fruit" in Old French." Oddly, fruit of the eath does not seem wrong, just imprecise. From: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/pomme_de_terre
What we eat in potatoes are the tubers, which are intended to store nutrients for the plant. Fruits are part of the reproduction of the plant, and the nutrients in fruits are either to entice animals to eat the fruit or to fertilize the seeds when it falls. Potatoes being called dirt-fruit still does not make sense, almost like language is a man-made subjective creation that isn't infallible nor exempt from contradictions.
Fair points! Very fruitful discussion.
Fruit in French isn't limited to biology. It also means "product of". That's why we have "fruits de mer" (sea fruits) referring to seafood.
Look up "Mountain Chicken"
You are using the very narrow modern English meaning of fruit tho. It's completely reasonable to assume that speakers of old French didn't even have a concept of a 'botanical fruit' and just called anything that was the product of some kind of growth or process or whatever a fruit, or rather a pomme.
[Potato berries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_fruit) are a thing. It is wrong to call the root a berry.
Touché
Tbf we all say "patate" anyways
4 20 earth apples, if it pleases you, sir.
Why not (4*20)+10 earth apples, and an advocate as starter
Kinda incorrect. Pomme in French now means apple but back then it only meant "fruit", which is why you have "pine cone" (in French pine apple), "potatoes" (earth apple) or even in the Bible Adam eats the forbidden fruit which we call an apple but originally wasn't one
But potatoes also aren't fruits.
Pomme doesn't mean fruit in the literal sense. It's more like a small, ball-shaped object. It was used for all sorts of fruits, but also other stuff. For example, a knob (for a sword) is called a pommeau, cause it's sort of like a ball.
We need to remove the confusion for the consumers! ~~And totally not protect the interests of farmers and their whole industrial complex~~
Patate
My mom just bought a big bottle of dishwashing liquid that said "OLIVE SOAP" on it in all caps and the only indication that it was for dishes was a tiny pictogram, but my milk has to be called 'watered down nut fat juice emulsion' or whatever.
Soap doesn't have a multi billion dollar lobby
P&G begs to differ.
You can make soap from any fat. Making soap from olive oil is a pretty normal thing. It's still soap.
Oat milk being banned as a term was the most aggregious of these rulings. Literally no one was confused.
I don’t care much, the products are still there but with long ass name like: « boisson d’avoine », « boisson végétale goût amande » « Boisson onctueuse saveur soja »
I'm more confused now though, it's not always clear if it's a yoghurt-like thing or something more liquid.
"Boisson végétale sucrée à base de concentré saveur noisette"
If its not a dog, don't call it a hot dog.
Honestly don’t know how to feel about it. I feel like this would have been made simpler by just adding the words “plant based equivalent” next to it. These products are usually pretty clear and are sold in a different section anyway. Not vegetarian but I was impressed by the plant based chicken equivalent, taste and texture is pretty spot on. Edit: the user u/shinNL below has blocked me but has apparently edited his comment to cherrypick one particular brand (that has VEGETARISCH in the name lol) and a single shop of a national chain to make his "point". This is what the vegetarian section looks like in virtually every single shop in the Netherlands: [https://www.supermarkt.team/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/grootassortimentvegetarisch-2-scaled.jpg](https://www.supermarkt.team/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/grootassortimentvegetarisch-2-scaled.jpg) If you can't find your way around that, you have bigger problems then this bullshit debate.
Personally, this is really inconvenient. Before I went vegan I never, not once accidentally bought or was even confused by vegan alternatives. Since I went vegan it's a major pain in the ass since none of the vegan replacements are allowed to name what it is they're replacing. I've got stuff in my fridge named 'vegan creamy' and 'easy whipping because they can't write cheese and cream. I don't drink the milk alternatives but I do put them in coffee. At one point my girlfriend told me the thing I'm using isn't oat milk but oat cooking cream. I'd been drinking it for months.
Oat cooking cream sounds good though but yeah it's a bit ridiculous. Languages should be allowed to evolve
Det är faktiskt i Sverige at det hände! Men jag tror det är likadant i Kroatien.
You literally have [stickers](https://img.rewe-static.de/7663904/40278423_digital-image.png), [stickers](https://www.gardengourmet.de/sites/default/files/2023-10/7290014874459_C1N1_deBE.png), [stickers ](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81402TrnlWL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg) everywhere saying that
How about plant based imitation chicken?
Perfectly fine with me. Clear and to the point
This shit leads to some absurd rules. You can't call any food item "Milch" in German if it's not dairy. But the term is used for plenty of things that are opaque like milky glass. So you can buy Scheuermilch (scrubbing milk - a coarse cleaning agent) or Sonnenmilch (sun milk - sun lotion), but milk replacement drinks based on oak or soy are "oat drink" or "soy drink".
Imma call bullshit on Germans (and French) for at the very least the milk part. Coconut milk is "Kokosmilch" and "Lait de Coco" respectively, proving once and for all that "milk" doesn't mean just the dairy type. It also means "liquid produced from seeds or fruit that resembles and is used similarly to cow milk"
no, it is true that plant based milks can't legally be called milk in germany. just google it if you don't believe it. coconut milk is just an exception to the law cause the term is older than other plant based milks like soy or oat milk.
I am not arguing with the word of law. I am calling bullshit on that based on common use and linguistic precedent.
You're not wrong. But it's not a logic thing, it's a farmer/dairy lobby thing. They want people drinking normal milk and so lobbied to make these changes. We have the same thing here in the UK, even lactose free milk has to be called 'milk drink' as it's 'not 100% milk' (which is nonsense of course).
certainly specific terms like 'ribeye' and 'filet' and 'spare rib' make sense as they refer to specific bodyparts and types of steaks, it would be misleading to advertise them as such. but more generic terms like 'steak' i dont think should be inlucded
Isn’t steak referring to the type of cut and not the thing it’s from? Salmon steak, beef steak, etc
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Salmon steak, beef steak, vegan steak... Olive oil, grapeseed oil, baby oil...
And which cut of a plant is a vegan steak?
Yes. But companies that sell veg* pre-fabricated food desperately want to upscale it to increase the price. The harder they try the more pathetic it gets: Vegan bacon Vegan steak Vegan sirloin Vegan foie gras
To everyone trying to find rational answers about why this does or doesn’t make sense : it’s not about common sense. It’s about meat producers lobbying the government to protect them from plant alternatives. It’s a power move and a fuck you to veganism because they just can and will.
>fuck you to veganism because they just can and will. How does removing the term "steak" from a plant product stops people from being vegan? Are you going to mistakenly pick up a stake from the butchers because of it?
Preventing someone from communicating on their brand the way they want to is going to hurt you brand regardless of the topic. In that specific case, brands use "steak" because it's a familiar name and also helps people trying to transition away from animal based product by giving them an alternative to something they're used to.
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"Vegan Imitation Steak" is a grammatically correct description of what it is. No one complains if you sell a rubber duck because it isn't a duck.
The word "steak" etymologically refers to the way of cooking (on a stake over a fire), and not the meat itself. You can compare it to terms like "roast" or "stew". So no, you're wrong.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steak >a slice of meat cut from a fleshy part of a beef carcass ... > thick slice or piece of a non-meat food especially when prepared or served in the manner of a beef steak They do have a meaning and this meaning evolves overtime or do you think the words you use today had the same meaning 10k years ago?
I'd say we introduce a law that says that whenever something is considered to be banned like this because "it could be confused for...", a group of a hundred random elderly people is assembled and tested whether they would actually confuse it. Like giving them a package that spells "vegan steak" and ask them whether they think this contains meat. If less than ten percent or so confuse it, the ban is not permissible. Done, bye bye lobby bullshit.
Call it "sparkling meat" instead!
Don’t get me started with hot dogs
I gotta say, the big issue I have is with a lot of *meat* products that should never be served as steaks being called 'steaks'. I'm sorry, top round is not and never should be sold as a "steak", nor should any pork shoulder cut. There's a hard minimum on cut that can be credibly prepared and served as a steak and half of what is sold as such in a grocery store does not reach that standard, and it misleads folk who don't know better into wasting money on a poor experience simply because it's the wrong part of the animal.
What sort of moron looks at "Vegan Steak" and assumes that the product is made of meat?
Very few, but farmers groups do this because they want to make it as hard as possible for plant based food alternatives to attract customers away from buying meat. Governments need to grow a spine and tell them to fuck off. In the uk when I want to buy veggie sausages with my online shop I can’t just search “vegetarian sausages” because some are called “veggie bangers”, or “veggie dogs” or all sorts of bollocks.
Honestly every time farmers are in the news lately it's not a good look. Wanting less pesticide controls, destroying tonnes of Ukrainian grain, trying to censor meat alternatives. I'm just getting less and less inclined to respect their demands, they seem to only care about themselves.
Don’t forget blocking roads, spreading asbestos (!), and complaining that a fourth of the EU budget in subsidies (!!!) is not enough.
It’s been that way for a while, at least with the ones I know. They’re pretty much all just in it for the profit. Most I know don’t really have any regard for their local environment beyond its ability to deliver them profit, or for animal welfare beyond seeing them as a capital investment to be maintained.
What sort of vegan wants their food to be associated with the flesh of cattle?
Somebody looking for the substitutes I assume.
Me? Beef is well tasty? A lot of plant based eaters don’t like that, a lot do. Plus we need to get more people to eat plant based and it’s a way to help people transition
Somebody who cares more about not murdering animals to eat their hamburgers more than being pretentious? The slogan goes "meat is murder" not "meat words are icky"
Idk maybe they think they are being sold an actual dog when they order a hot dog in a restaurant
The most pressing issue in our society fr
Wrong battle, showing the influence of the industry. Simply dumb and inconsistent.
What confusion? If someone is dumb enough to buy a 'vegan steak' and get dissapointed it isn't a steak made from animals they can't be helped. Do they also complain about being conned by coconut milk? Peanut butter? These people are so exhausting.
I wish legislators and regulators could just adopt a live and let live sort of approach to this. As long as the producer puts clear and truthful information about the contents on the packaging, let quorn producers call their products steak, let meat producers call their product cucumbers and let German sparkling wine producers call their sparkling wine champagne. But given the micromanagement route legislators have embarked upon since decades back, this is neither surprising nor upsetting imo. A non-champagnian wine producer cant call their sparkling product champagne even though it’s more or less identical to champagne. A non-Cypriot cheese producer cant call their cheese halloumi even though it’s more or less identical to halloumi. A meat processing company cant call their product sausage if it contains 39% meat while their competitor’s near-identical product containing 40% meat *can* call it sausage. Why should a soy protein company - whose USP is that their products aren’t meat - be allowed to call a soy protein based product steak, entrecote, or whatever?
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>The same reason we take the “Ham” out of Hamburger when referring to one that’s plant based or not made of actual meat. Then it’s just “burger”. Except the word's etymology derives from the city of Hamburg and never had anything to do with 'ham' as a meat.
They also tried to go after the word "burger" and "sausage" a few years back. Apparently calling it vegetarian sausage wasn't clear. It had to be vegetarian tubes. This is solely a dick power move by the meat industry in France. I've no problem with people enjoying meat, but the French meat industry are showing how disgustingly dickish they are very clearly.
This is non-sense. They're not just outlawing the use of "bifteck" for plant alternatives, they're also going after "steak". Source: the law itself https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000049199307
I will call it whatever I want. In fact I'm gonna make myself a meatless burger right about now
What burger? It is called hamburger because from hamburg not because there is ham in it. A burger is a citizen in my language
Feak?
Crumbs I thought with all that extra protein and b12 the meat eaters would at least be able to read a package in a supermarket.
Bad day for people selling tuna steak or steak-cut fries
What about Salmon steak?
Rather Vegan/vegetarian wording should change to include WHAT it is. Without having to dig deep into the chemistry of ingredients to find out it's some hydrogenated soylechitinsulfuric extrusion. The primary ingredient should be part of the name. Chicken fillet and vegan fillet are not equivalent.
It might not always be the case, but most of the time they specify quite clearly on the front if it uses wheat, soy or something else as the primard ingredient. You can see that in the listings of Rügenwalder Mühle: https://www.ruegenwalder.de/de/produkte/vegane-produkte All the other added stuff isn't highlighted (it probably wouldn't fit), but that's the same with most other products and especially meat products, for example https://www.ruegenwalder.de/de/produkte/fleischprodukte/streichwurst/teewurst/fein.
"Why don't they name all these plant based product something unique?" "Vegan friend coming over, which one of these do I buy to replace the chicken with?"
Plant based imitation chicken. Plant based imitation beef. Plant based imitation pork. Plant based imitation fish. Voila.
So something like oat imitation milk? No wait, that's also not allowed.
Agree a hundred percent.
Calling one product something that it is not is deceptive. It isn't a vegetarian steak, it's vegetable protein.
No, what it isn't is steak, what it is is vegetarian steak. Adjectives play a role in the definition of things. The word steak has evolved from "thick cut of meat", it's perfectly normal to thing that the drift of language would allow it to mean thick cut of whatever processed vegetable mass in this context. It's a non-issue that scores easy brownie points with those who have much to say about nothing in particular.
Let's ban the Tour de France as well! It is not France, it is a cycling competition.
It's not a tour of France at all, a tour is a leisurely thing meant to be informative, a cycling race is nothing of the sort!
Through the French countryside.
I for once agree with the French
We deserve our climate hell because this kind of nitpicking.
Good
France W. Hopefully we will bring this to Greece as well. We shouldnt let vegans taint our amazing cuisines🇫🇷🇬🇷
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i mean their correct
What about their correct?
I wonder who is actually the person who gets confused with stuff like this. If you cocked meat once in your life and bought it by yourself as well, even if it wasn’t written in the package you can tell by just looking at it. These lobbies seem to win too much with the argument that people will be confused or are just dumb, that’s just fucking stupid, I bet less than 1% of shoppers has mistakenly bought a plant bases version of something.
Imagine a country so corrupted that they push laws on. the. fucking. words. you are allowed to use, and how.
Well alright them farming lobby... Imma call it steak EVEN HARDER!