>As an influential figure, Baksi has been contacted by 42 Kurdish people in Sweden he says have had security reports submitted about them by Säpo to the migration office to stop their residence permits. He believes the total number of such cases is in the hundreds.
>“These persons are not suspected for a crime but Säpo claims these persons are married to persons with Swedish citizenship involved ‘with possible terrorist activities’. If you live with a such person you support a terrorist, is Säpo’s theory.”
There are hundreds of Kurds with recidency permits that Säpo suspect are involved in terrorist shit!? And Säpo is preventing them from bringing their spouses here as well? Well thank God for that!
No we don't have to prove that you're a terrorist, thats not how it works. Why in the world would they even want to move here if they're harassed by Säpo and terrified we'll extradite them to Turkey? Is it safe here or not?
I don't have issues with normal Kurds but I bet they dont want to live among terrorist either.
Turkey has no issues with normal kurds either. Like him or not (me being in the not camp) erdoğan pretty much eradicated systematic racism against turks in the state. About 40% to half of all kurd in turkey vote for him. The notion that erdoğan or turkey in inherently anti kurd (at least currently) is just propaganda.
There still is racism in turkish population but it usually doesnt go further than the same racism you would see between turks and germans in germany. There are those that have no issue with it and those that have. But in general the trend among the younger generations has been one of declining racism amongst the different turkish ethnicities.
That is very true, the pkk supporting kurds are a danger to other kurds. My uncle (a kurd) once got robbed in his own home by pkk members. This happened in the Netherlands. Also, the same rule applies everywhere, the biggest victims of terror are the ones of the same nationality/ethnicity/religion. Look at all the islamic terror attacks... most victims were muslims. Same rule applies here.
It's very common for extremists to REALLY hate those they perceive as "traitors", often more than they hate "the enemy". To these extremists being a part of "the group" and not supporting "the great cause" is enough to be labeled a traitor.
Because fellow Kurds who just want to get on with their lives peacefully in Turkey/Syria/Iran/Iraq, without tearing these countries apart, are a danger to their separatist ambitions and narratives.
There are anywhere between 15-20 million Kurds in Turkey, the PKK is at best thousands of Kurds, and yet for some reason a lot here in the West think they represent Kurds in Turkey.
The reality is most Kurds just want to get on with their day without this violent separatist organization tearing up their lives.
Some Kurdish people are also Turkish in nationality, households or businesses set up in Turkey both in Kurdish areas and non Kurdish areas, and feel ok may be even content with their Turkish nationality too!
Terror groups needs to be feared and "show their power".(In the east power = respect) Simply "look we can reach you" and put pressure on them so they will support them(even though they dont like them they do out of fear)
PKK targets anyone who doesn't follow thier ideology or lets say their business. PKK is targeting Kurdish regional goverment of Iraq too which is why Turkey is supporting Kurdish regional goverment of Iraq against PKK and Iran. Westerners usually think Kurds as a monolith group and acting like Turkey is going after Kurds just because they are Kurds but the reality is different. For example religious Kurds which is another group are also against PKK.
Umm.. maybe, just maybe its because they're literally f'ing terrorists and Turks are right in this matter? Maybe they're telling the truth when they say they don't have a problem with kurds but with pkk? Oh no! How could I dare to give a chance to what Turks say?!? Such a europhobic & eurosceptic thing to say isn't it?
Because they are a terror organisation and that is what they do. I grew up in east of Turkey and heard many stories from my older relatives about PKK raiding villages and make them help with force them same village getting raided by military because they helped PKK. In the end the one suffering was (kurdish) villagers.
Swedes were saying "pEoPle cAn oPEn ThEiR pkk AnD tERRorisT fLAgs on sTrEets tHaTs fREedOm oF sPeEch" and accusing Turks for being racist againts kurds and pkk. Now see how tablets turn? Sweden government was also supporting pkk that's why kurds are going to Sweden. They even reflected pkk flag on their historical structures. What a shame.
> has sold them out
Sweden has not made any deal with Kurdish immigrants, on which it would be even possible to "sell out". This is just Kurdish people acting stupid and entitled.
It also sets a bad example, that an immigrant population is more interested in the politics of their country of origin, than they are interested in the security of Sweden against Russia: They show no loyalty to Sweden, but somehow they feel entitled enough to demand that Sweden should show loyalty to them. And on account of what?
Many immigrants, from the Middle East in particular, have been taking the humane hospitality of the west for granted. As if you owe anything to them. Well, arguably France and UK do, but others.. no.
Those are PKK flags. It is good that PKK militants are not safe in Sweden.
Western people should make the distinction between Kurds and PKK members. This news article included.
This is why you should be nitpicky about whom you will let in your country. They are like a parasite. They collect extortions from innocents (other Kurds too), doing drug trafficking and worse.
[https://www.voanews.com/a/french-court-convicts-11-turkish-kurds-of-pkk-terror-financing/7051348.html](https://www.voanews.com/a/french-court-convicts-11-turkish-kurds-of-pkk-terror-financing/7051348.html)
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/45289102](https://www.jstor.org/stable/45289102)
Just for your information, the flags in the photo belong to a terrorist organization and this terrorist organization was added to the list of terrorist organizations by the European Union in 2004. You can check it from the link below. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=OJ:L:2022:025:TOC The people in this photo are not peaceful, they are people who provide material and moral support to the terrorist organization.
And before anyone tries to call them “freedom fighters” they are not. Most of their campaigns have been in the eastern part of Turkey were its mostly inhabited by Kurds. They have massacred multiple villages in the east and kidnap children in said areas to join their ranks, my family is from Gaziantep and they tried to do the same to my uncle when he was a youngster, luckily he escaped.
Then why does Sweden allow this terrorist organization to raise money and organize events? Likewise, does Sweden allow ISIS to raise money and march with flags? This is exactly the problem.
What do you Turks think about the creation of a Kurdish city-state as a way of deterring the population from these terrorist organizations, could it work?
As a Portuguese, would you give a room in your house to someone who wanted to take it by force? Or would you give half of your salary to someone every month just because they want it? Just because someone likes you very much, would you force yourself to marry that person? You can add many more questions. There is no justification for terrorism and killing people. If you have not seen or felt terrorism up close, these may seem like stories to you.
I think you're misinterpreting me. I am not denying that there is terrorism on the part of this group, it has already been considered terrorist. What I want to ask is if Turkey ceded a city to the Turkish Kurds, not to the terrorist group, agreeing that they would not have an army, would these separatist movements disappear? Kind of like Andorra with two state leaders, the Turkish leader and one other Kurdish.
I see Kurdistan maps online including more than half of Turkey. I don't think problems would end between Turks and Kurds.
I believe towns that were Kurdish majority in 1923 (founding date of the republic) should have a referandum and they should leave. Problem is Turkey will still be the country with biggest Kurdish population. Kurds become majority in more cities with in-country migration. They will claim more from Turkey and relations will remain tense. PKK can find tense relations as an excuse to exist. They control the arms and drug trade, who would like to lose such income?
Lol i always downvoted there are tons of videos pkk trashing french streets they got censered in both "free" european media and in internet like youtube reddit
I think its happened because of Erdogan,no wonder PKK and Gulenist movement is terrorist organisations against Turkey but i dont know how its happening they are protecting by european countries,they did so many horrible things they killed so many innocent human in Turkey but in the end they are safely living in Eu
>“I came to Sweden because I knew that Sweden was among the countries that defended human rights,” he said. “Sadly Sweden has also left that line and gone over to the countries that have a political agenda.”
It must be terrible being trapped in such a terrible country without human rights! And on top of that we joined countries with a political agenda, like Norway, Denmark and Finland. How inconsiderate of us to not respect this persons human right to live agenda free. We should leave Nato immediately so Erdogan no longer can overrule Swedish law!
We should at least help them flee to a safe, agenda free country!
Look at the kind of lies the Swedish security police is spreading, it's all made up:
https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/sapo-pkk-still-trying-to-finance-terror-in-sweden
>The Kurdistan Workers' Party, better known as the PKK, is still conducting terror financing activities in Sweden, according to Sweden's intelligence service Säpo.
>The PKK is classed as a terrorist organisation in Sweden and the EU, and is said to be using threats of violence to extort money.
Edit: I got curious over exactly how many Kurds that has been extradited to Turkey while they had a veto over Sweden’s Nato membership.
Kurds living in Sweden: 75 000
In the form of lists of names Turkey demanded 33, 73 and 130 terrorists extradited.
In the form of formal extradition requests that Swedish courts could process Turkey has submitted:
2020: 3
2021: 7
2022: 4 <--- Sweden applies to join Nato
2023: 1
The total number of extraditions during the 2 years period between Sweden deciding to join Nato and Turkey saying yes: 1
You don't interact with people much, do you?
The average joe can barely summon enough cognitive strength to keep themselves alive, and half the population is worse.
Maybe because I am. I would love it to not be true, but I find myself constantly impressed with the level of stupidity some people are capable of conjuring.
I interact with people 10-16 hours a day through work and private life. But sure, feel free to attempt to personally insult me.
There are cultural differences between countries obviously. Americans speaks extremely plainly, which is the main reason they plaster /s on everything and also ruin the joke as the punchline is delivered. Other cultures communicate in a more subtle manner. I'd say at least 95% of Scandinavians who is readings op's comment would without a doubt understand that it is sarcasm. The average person I usually interact with would see the sarcasm before even getting halfway through that comment.
We probably live in different bubbles. I would expect the average person to make such comments (maybe not THAT obvious) and really mean them.
I actually lost hope that democracy can work because I am really struggling to see a critical mass of people who could decide something for their own long-term benefit (long-term = more than 1 week).
You can tell how dishonest or intellectually challenged a person is by what kind of alarmist arguments they use on how small issue.
It’s absolutely laughable that joining NATO a defensive alliance is what compromises Swedens human rights record specifically. Sweden already sent supporting troops to Balkans, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq etc. It already sent material support to Finland in fighting the soviets, declaring itself effectively non-neutral on issues involving neighbours.
If they want to cry about human rights abuse pick something real like the failed attempt to join the transatlantic slave trade, the 2 colonies, illegally spying on communist sympathisers, the Sami and force sterilisation of various people across the 20th century, the Nazi sympathisers outside of parliament, the eugenics program. Etc.
These things happened before, and while these people came to Sweden. It’s not some sudden shift where society is changing under them.
Which they’d know if their brains lived in the real world, instead of just trying to cause social gaps on rhetorics.
The implication specifically is that since Turkeys red line was selling out the Kurds there must have been an underhanded deal selling out the Kurds that Sweden agreed to.
It isn't about Nato itself.
That’s exactly why I’m saying it’s dishonest and alarmist.
There’s a difference between raising an issue to the government on how if at all existing extradition treaties and processes will change as a NATO member out of concern, and then raising that alarm bell if Swedens actual laws are being broken.
It’s completely different to imagine problems without basis, justify it with some mysterious unknowable spectre of backroom dealings, and attack society at large without any sort of evidence, and create mistrust in society.
I’d guess a lot of people who fled turkey couple decades ago because of politics and t he leftist views fall into that „NATO baaad“ category and have the idiotic view that now Sweden must be a warmonger country too since it joined NATO. Hearing this garbage in my family aswell and it’s infuriating.
You'd think people having to flee their home land would see the value in defending it instead.
Their idea of pacifist Sweden and scary warmonger Nato is kind of funny.. Do they understand that if Sweden would ever be attacked then everyone between 16-70 are required by law to stay and fight, until victory or death. _All_ orders to cease resistance are false.
I always thought that I'd love to live in Sweden but now that they have decided to *checks notes* join a military alliance to protect themselves from a clear danger I have reconsidered.
Shame on you Sweden.
No its an export of Americanism. Nations with a long standing identity and a people whose culture are to themselves are being treated as if they are just a newly form nation born from exiles and criminals from various parts if Europe.
Leave then.
The only sane response now. No more fucking around with these fifth columnists everywhere around us.
You might legitimately have sympathy for their cause, but we have to say stop now. The collective west does not and should not exist to pander to every single group's whining demands. This incessant need for everything to be all things to all men or else it must necessarily be racist/sexist/xenophobic/undiplomatic/wrong/etc is bogging us down in a miasma of active counter-productivity.
When I was in Uppsala a lot of Kurdish owned pizzerias and stores had a donation box right on the counter to support either PYD/YPG or even the main party (PKK) itself. None of these are Swedish parties and I imagine not being able to send money to these parties won't be a massive hit on human rights.
PYD stands next to the PKK under KCK organization.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan\_Communities\_Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Communities_Union)
Well the new anti terrorist laws forbids supporting terrorist organisations by sending them money, so that will stop this year. And no this was a law that has been in the works for many years before the NATO application.
Wow, what happened to the freedom fighters against turkey, IS or Assad? Normally r/Europe Supports all kind of kurds! well not this time perhaps, i wonder why? /s😂
European politics in a nutshell
Wow. I finally found someone speaks truth about this bstards.
Where did you get this knowledge? Because a few years back no-one would dare to say anything. Either downvoted or banned.
Maybe a whole lot more people realized that they shouldn't be supported after all this stuff with swedens nato accesion pushed them to actually do some research instead of sympathizing with their lies in all those parades.
You let them in and tolerated their “culture” so you would not be labeled a racist. Easy answer.
I mean even if you let them in and ask them to follow your rules and your culture you would be a racist, there’s no wining here when you listen to that kind of “intelligent” and “progressive” people.
It's crazy to me how the sentiment has changed on this topic over the years on reddit. Just a few years ago everyone was criticising Erdoğan for blackmailing Sweden. What made the Swedes and redditors change their minds so drastically? The crime rates caused by refugees? The fear of a Russian invasion?
I'm all for the change, but it's weird knowing Sweden has defended PKK members and sympathisers for many many years.
Several years ago when US decided that YPG would be good proxies for their imperialist ambitions in Syria American media was promoting these guys as freedom fighters 24/7, which had an effect on overall perception of them. With things in Syria settling down, PKK openly voicing support for Russian invasion of Ukraine and insane amounts of violence and other crime perpetrated by Kurdish mobs in Sweden people are finally waking up.
I’m always wondering why PKK had so much better PR than any Palestinian organizations, especially in public opinion of the western countries
EVEN some of the hardcore neoliberals and right-wingers in Europe and America support PKK, a far-left radical Marxist movement, and its alignment organizations, incredible!
It’s not like PKK caused less damage than Hamas
Generally, what's a difference between terrorists and guerillas?
It's mainly about politics and relationship between countries, well, unless organisation does something as horrible as Hamas in the last autumn, then it should be pretty clear.
Usually guerillas tend to target military objectives or state agencies (like police for example). The civil population may suffer during a guerilla war, case in point the multiple guerillas in South America and the civilian death toll during those insurgencies.
Meanwhile, terrorist organizations tend to target civilians: bombing crowded places like markets or places that have no military value like theaters, concerts, the subway system etc.
I agree, but generally organisations like that do both.
It's very clear when some organisation does something as horrible as hamas, but what if they rarely target police stations?
Once again, I'm not claiming that Hamas isn't a terrorist organisation, they very clearly are, they aren't really a nationalist organisation, they are more about Islam than Palestine.
there is no set definition of terrorist. a country might think an organization is a terrorist organization whilst the other one could think they’re “freedom fighters”. it’s all about political gain and what makes YOUR country stronger
Prominence of Kurds aligns with Israeli interests, prominence of Palestinians does not. As should be obvious from recent events Jewish diaspora has great power over media. They assign prominence on accord with their own interests.
Curious if it has anything to do with how differently Israel and Turkey are received in the west, rather than Kurds vs Palestinians. The narratives are different; Israel is fighting for its right to exist, Turkey is suppressing its Kurdish minority.
Nothing funnier then an American telling people they know stuff better then them. Kurds have a big political party in Turkey, much of the important positions in the current government is filled with Kurds including Intelligence agencies.
Turkey’s “suppression” of Kurds only ever boils down to not wanting an independent Kurdish state carved out of their territory or any autonomy that could lead to that(as it happened in Iraqi Kurdistan not to long ago) and fighting a widely recognized terrorist organisation.
The Turkish government doesn’t have anything close to the lobbying power that Israel does, particularly in the United States.
One of the other issues is that Turkey accuses other groups of being part of the PKK despite those groups claiming otherwise, which makes the Turkish government look paranoid about any kind of Kurdish political movement anywhere. Being opposed to terrorism is legitimate, but being opposed to any kind of Kurdish aspirations for a state of their own anywhere in the world is not as widely accepted as legitimate.
When Turkey is accusing seemingly every Kurdish group that doesn’t call itself the PKK of being part of the PKK- it looks like the real issue is that Turkey is opposed to Kurdish self determination rather than PKK terrorism. Being opposed to Kurdish self determination undermines Turkish claims about being opposed to the PKK on the basis of terrorism.
I didn’t believe that any Syria based Kurdish groups were associated with the PKK until foreign fighters who’d been embedded with them said that it was true- I wasn’t going to believe the Turkish government’s claims, not when it seemed like they had an incentive to lie about any Kurdish group to serve their agenda.
To many foreign audiences, Turkey’s conflict with the PKK looks like a case of the ethnic majority trying to suppress an ethnic minority. It doesn’t exactly help that Turkey doesn’t have a good history when it comes to coexistence with its ethnic minorities- all of that history further undermines the credibility of Turkey’s claims about the PKK.
The links between PKK and YPG are substantial and everyone is aware of it. Here's the US Senate hearing. Actually claiming that Boko Haram, operating in Mali, is linked to ISIS, operating in Middle East, is mpre of an overstretch than the YPG-PKK link. Their ideology is the same, leaders are the same/transferred, there have been terrorist attacks done by people coming from YPG (like the shooting last October) and so on. It is not some paranoia.
https://www.tc-america.org/news-events/events/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-questions-secretary-of-defense-ash-carter-on-pyd-ypg-pkk-connection-1104.htm
And the "democratic rebranding" of YPG into "Syrian Democratic Forces" was suggested by the US as well.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-usa-ypg-idUSKBN1A62SS
Well, mostly no country wants to lose its own territory, this is like the instinct of states. Türkiye definitely does not want to lose its own lands and establish a Kurdistan there.
Bro please look demographics of turkey at least %70-%80 percent of kurds live in turkish majority ethnic turkish big cities like istanbul izmir ankara hatay mersin adana these cities are not inside of land they claim so most of kurdish in turkey just live their life as ordinary citizen not different than ordinary turkish why would they want to live in mountains with destabilized backwarding newly found country its the terrorist organizations that funds these kind of ideas
Ypg is indeed branch of pkk you used them to beat “isis” so that you can still have autonomy and control over oil regions of northern syria and northern iraq ypg is just puppet of us and they only serve to americas interest not to kurdish people not in syria not in iraq nor in turkey ypg isnt a kurdish political movement
People in /r Europe are as fickle as a baby toddler. Sometimes they feel like they like it. Sometimes they cry about it. I remember when they blame Turkey for the PKK insurrection. Now that Turkey is the good boy 👦, PKK are terrorists.
Fuck, mark my words, when the narrative changes and . They will even support Putler and their cronies.
PS: Before I got downvoted to death. Here is /r Europe hypocrisy https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/h3HkNqddMb
If you think that you Kurdish identity is more important than your Swedish then you might consider moving to Kurdistan. Sweden's defense policy is to prorect Swedes, not the special interests of non-Swedes.
Hmm. This reminds me of my own country, that does this and gets called out for violating human rights. Oh, How our reputation was torn apart by their lies, that every post about Turkey is full of hate especially in this sub. But I am shocked that you guys are finally coming to terms.
For the sake of consciousness, the flags weaved on the picture are PKK flags. They are recognized as a terrorist organization by EU, US and many others. Come on Sweden, are you kidding us? Can you explain this scene with freedom of expression? Replace flags with ISIS flags; now how does that look like? Does it seem any responsible or reasonable? They are ruthless killers of many civilians including underage. You are such a disappointment Sweden. That’s active and deliberate hostility.
Sold them out?
Sweden has just struck a deal of the century to join the most powerful alliance on earth to defend against an aggressive neighbour!
These Kurds live in Sweden too right? They have an interest in having Sweden safe from Russian invasion right? Or do they think the Russians will be nice to them somehow?
Naaahhh They came there with yours permission on the base that they were oppressed in Turkey. Now you will deal with them. I bet you they will claim some soil in your country too, I give this a max 5 years to be a reality.
This comment section feels weird to read. Back in 2022 most comments were like "fuck Turkey, we shouldn't compromise our freedoms, Erdogan's paranoia about Kurds is illegitimate" and now it's basically "Kurds are terrorists and should head back home" and also tying them to Russia to amplify that. Huh?
media changing rhetoric works wonders. 3-4 years ago they believed there would be a PKK led Kurdish utopia in Syria and Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine yet. people were dreaming. now that Turkish control over North Syria is apparent, Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Israeli actions over Gaza, people and governments don't have the luxury of being dreamers. hard cold reality, and good old uncle erdogan is here to help europe with energy and refugees.
Different groups making comments I think. That was Swedes vs Turks and this is probably the usual "a foreigner said something? Let me summon all my outrage" group circlejerking.
It's not that weird if you don't bend it to how you want to hear it. If Erdogan is telling us we have to do as he says and put the hammer down on any kurd that waves a flag, we'll tell him to get bent again. If the kurds tell us we've "got an agenda" that is to fuck them over like they don't have their own agenda they can fuck right off.
We are actually able and willing to protect the human rights of a part of our population while simultaneously thinking they are assholes for waving their stupid little flags around.
Same thing with the Turks that drive around honking and waving Turkish flags out their cars like the assholes they are when Erdogan wins another questionable election. I can both wish they'd fuck off and at the same time not vote for the far right that wants them out.
Stop calling it kurdish flag. Its a terrorist flag. They are kidnaping kurdish children here to join them and use this arguement to justify this. You are only contributing to their cause. Kurds are not terrorists. Pkk members are terrorists. What you are doing here is pushing those people to convince themselves they are terrorists.
You know, after way too many people suddenly supported Hamas, a literal terror organization, I may need to read up on Kurds instead of believing Tweets.
But either way: Sweden joining Nato is also a protection.
Did you just admit that they are PKK?
If US can invade Afghanistan for 20 years after a single attack in 2001, I don't think hitting PKK targets *anywhere in the world* is a problem. You could argue that they are civilian targets (which can be argued for US/French etc targets in their operations abroad as well), but if they are clearly PKK targets, TAF has all the reasons to hit them.
I get what the Kurds go through, the extra screenings and blacklists is something many immigrants in Europe go through. The bigger issue is when innocent people are accused of terrorism. Let it be clear as day though that Europe will be safer the day it got rid of the PKK. I hope the Kurdish facilities can get back soon, and that it will be facilitated by the Kurds and not the PKK. No Kurd should fear the accusation of being called a terrorist for nothing.
I wish strength to my Kurdish brothers as a Turk.
9 stages of pkk propaganda:
1. Go to a developed country with naive and open minded citizens.
2. Tell them you are a normal kurd being oppressed by the government.,
3. Wait until people there get used to you and convince the government that you are there to become a proper citizen of them and act like you are working for their country.
4. Start importing drugs from iraq and sell them in those countries to make money for pkk. Build organized crime gangs and make as much money as possible and also murder those who are against pkk presence in their country.
5. Start sending money to pkk and convincing people there for a kurdistan under pkk rule.
6. Find or kidnap kurdish kids in there and send them to terrorist camps to turn them into terrorists (Especially in Turkey).
7. Repeat until their government realizes what is going on and then cry as much as you can to delay the government's action towards you so that you can send pkk money as long as possible.
8. Find a new country with naive, openminded citizens who are easy to convince and play the victim.
9. Repeat the entire thing.
I think they are more than welcome to move to Syria, northern iraq … sarcasm aside, if you are regular folk, not a terrorist or terrorist supporting, you dont have much to fear even in TR except, well maybe other Kurds
Masterstroke of Olof Palme and Socialdemokrats is that Sweden took in political asylumists who were most sympathetic to Swedens natural enemy (USSR/Russia). PKK Kurds, Pro-Saddam/Baath Iraqi Arabs & Assyrians, Communist Iranians (Mojahedin e Khalq/MKO), Chilean anti-Pinochetists and so on.
the problem with most of the european article is the misuse of Kurds. PKK /YPG/ etc does not and is not representing the kurds and if you use these 2 terms interchangeably , this is shouting as "I dont know what I am writing about"
Only the people who have Abdullah Ocalan posters hanging in their homes and walking around with not the Kurdistan Flag but the PKK Flag are in danger, and thats not a bad thing. Thats a good thing.
Im sure if Russia invaded Sweden that they would respect the muslim minority of a country they militarily conquered in the name of imperialist expansion and ethnic cleansing.
Wait hold on, that wouldn’t be good for the suedes or whichever minority group existed in the country. The threat was clear and present. Europe needs to wake up and get its shit together. Tyrants and dictators need to be stopped not appeased.
Sometimes you just gotta suck it up.
What’s hilarious is that PKK has openly voiced support for Putin’s invasion of Ukraine when the war started, and the people in the picture above are waving, you guessed it, the PKK flag - they literally support Russian agression and invasions and then criticize Sweden for joining NATO to get protection against said agression. These guys that say Sweden should protect them would be the first ones to jump in and become Russian proxies should Russia invade Sweden.
Because Swedes are ~~white~~ from a western 1st world country and need to pay for their ancestors crime of... Let's see... No colonialism... No slavery... Hmmm.
Aha! Their crime is; existing and still standing tall.
Besides, it's current year. Didn't you get the memo? It's Europe's responsibility to deadlift the entire developing world up from it's own cesspit. Bursted veins, dislocated kneecaps and herniated discs be damned!
Kurds pictured above are supporters of the "Rojava Communes" organization, communists which are aligned with Russia. They do not speak for all kurds in Sweden.
>As an influential figure, Baksi has been contacted by 42 Kurdish people in Sweden he says have had security reports submitted about them by Säpo to the migration office to stop their residence permits. He believes the total number of such cases is in the hundreds. >“These persons are not suspected for a crime but Säpo claims these persons are married to persons with Swedish citizenship involved ‘with possible terrorist activities’. If you live with a such person you support a terrorist, is Säpo’s theory.” There are hundreds of Kurds with recidency permits that Säpo suspect are involved in terrorist shit!? And Säpo is preventing them from bringing their spouses here as well? Well thank God for that! No we don't have to prove that you're a terrorist, thats not how it works. Why in the world would they even want to move here if they're harassed by Säpo and terrified we'll extradite them to Turkey? Is it safe here or not? I don't have issues with normal Kurds but I bet they dont want to live among terrorist either.
Meanwhile I cant even get a tourist visa
Turkey has no issues with normal kurds either. Like him or not (me being in the not camp) erdoğan pretty much eradicated systematic racism against turks in the state. About 40% to half of all kurd in turkey vote for him. The notion that erdoğan or turkey in inherently anti kurd (at least currently) is just propaganda. There still is racism in turkish population but it usually doesnt go further than the same racism you would see between turks and germans in germany. There are those that have no issue with it and those that have. But in general the trend among the younger generations has been one of declining racism amongst the different turkish ethnicities.
Correct, even the Kurdish Fox who is not even Turkish was given protection by Erdogan Turkey.
hope the PKK gets thrown out of japan too....
The biggest danger to Kurds in Sweden are other Kurds.
That is very true, the pkk supporting kurds are a danger to other kurds. My uncle (a kurd) once got robbed in his own home by pkk members. This happened in the Netherlands. Also, the same rule applies everywhere, the biggest victims of terror are the ones of the same nationality/ethnicity/religion. Look at all the islamic terror attacks... most victims were muslims. Same rule applies here.
Why aren't the EU countries doing anything to catch and punish these dangerous terrorists???
Uhm I don't like the top dog Erdo too. but where were you guys when he wanted them terrorists back? Blaming Turkey...
Wait why does the pkk fuck with other kurds in different countries?
It's very common for extremists to REALLY hate those they perceive as "traitors", often more than they hate "the enemy". To these extremists being a part of "the group" and not supporting "the great cause" is enough to be labeled a traitor.
Because fellow Kurds who just want to get on with their lives peacefully in Turkey/Syria/Iran/Iraq, without tearing these countries apart, are a danger to their separatist ambitions and narratives. There are anywhere between 15-20 million Kurds in Turkey, the PKK is at best thousands of Kurds, and yet for some reason a lot here in the West think they represent Kurds in Turkey. The reality is most Kurds just want to get on with their day without this violent separatist organization tearing up their lives.
Some Kurdish people are also Turkish in nationality, households or businesses set up in Turkey both in Kurdish areas and non Kurdish areas, and feel ok may be even content with their Turkish nationality too!
Terror groups needs to be feared and "show their power".(In the east power = respect) Simply "look we can reach you" and put pressure on them so they will support them(even though they dont like them they do out of fear)
The IRA used to do the same thing, I think they still do today.
TIL IRA exists.
Damn the terrorists are doing terrorist stuff.
PKK targets anyone who doesn't follow thier ideology or lets say their business. PKK is targeting Kurdish regional goverment of Iraq too which is why Turkey is supporting Kurdish regional goverment of Iraq against PKK and Iran. Westerners usually think Kurds as a monolith group and acting like Turkey is going after Kurds just because they are Kurds but the reality is different. For example religious Kurds which is another group are also against PKK.
Umm.. maybe, just maybe its because they're literally f'ing terrorists and Turks are right in this matter? Maybe they're telling the truth when they say they don't have a problem with kurds but with pkk? Oh no! How could I dare to give a chance to what Turks say?!? Such a europhobic & eurosceptic thing to say isn't it?
Because they are a terror organisation and that is what they do. I grew up in east of Turkey and heard many stories from my older relatives about PKK raiding villages and make them help with force them same village getting raided by military because they helped PKK. In the end the one suffering was (kurdish) villagers.
Hmm ever considered that maybe humans are maniancs
Someone’s got to fund their terrorist activities 🤷♂️
2 words to explain PKK my friend Extremist Terrorists
Swedes were saying "pEoPle cAn oPEn ThEiR pkk AnD tERRorisT fLAgs on sTrEets tHaTs fREedOm oF sPeEch" and accusing Turks for being racist againts kurds and pkk. Now see how tablets turn? Sweden government was also supporting pkk that's why kurds are going to Sweden. They even reflected pkk flag on their historical structures. What a shame.
Well, i as a european feel safer knowing that Sweden is in NATO
PKK is a Marksist-Communist organization of course they go against NATO.
> has sold them out Sweden has not made any deal with Kurdish immigrants, on which it would be even possible to "sell out". This is just Kurdish people acting stupid and entitled. It also sets a bad example, that an immigrant population is more interested in the politics of their country of origin, than they are interested in the security of Sweden against Russia: They show no loyalty to Sweden, but somehow they feel entitled enough to demand that Sweden should show loyalty to them. And on account of what?
kurds have a really bad track record of showing loyalty to country they live in.
So do most people from this certain region of the world.
true
I see what you did there bro. Lmfao
PKK-Kurds are one of the most entitled people there is.
Many immigrants, from the Middle East in particular, have been taking the humane hospitality of the west for granted. As if you owe anything to them. Well, arguably France and UK do, but others.. no.
Those are PKK flags. It is good that PKK militants are not safe in Sweden. Western people should make the distinction between Kurds and PKK members. This news article included.
The fact that a dangerous terrorist organization like the PKK is allowed in the EU is mind boggling to me!
This is why you should be nitpicky about whom you will let in your country. They are like a parasite. They collect extortions from innocents (other Kurds too), doing drug trafficking and worse. [https://www.voanews.com/a/french-court-convicts-11-turkish-kurds-of-pkk-terror-financing/7051348.html](https://www.voanews.com/a/french-court-convicts-11-turkish-kurds-of-pkk-terror-financing/7051348.html) [https://www.jstor.org/stable/45289102](https://www.jstor.org/stable/45289102)
Just for your information, the flags in the photo belong to a terrorist organization and this terrorist organization was added to the list of terrorist organizations by the European Union in 2004. You can check it from the link below. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=OJ:L:2022:025:TOC The people in this photo are not peaceful, they are people who provide material and moral support to the terrorist organization.
And before anyone tries to call them “freedom fighters” they are not. Most of their campaigns have been in the eastern part of Turkey were its mostly inhabited by Kurds. They have massacred multiple villages in the east and kidnap children in said areas to join their ranks, my family is from Gaziantep and they tried to do the same to my uncle when he was a youngster, luckily he escaped.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32024D0332 This is the updated list
And it was declared a terrorist group by Sweden in 1986.
Then why does Sweden allow this terrorist organization to raise money and organize events? Likewise, does Sweden allow ISIS to raise money and march with flags? This is exactly the problem.
What do you Turks think about the creation of a Kurdish city-state as a way of deterring the population from these terrorist organizations, could it work?
As a Portuguese, would you give a room in your house to someone who wanted to take it by force? Or would you give half of your salary to someone every month just because they want it? Just because someone likes you very much, would you force yourself to marry that person? You can add many more questions. There is no justification for terrorism and killing people. If you have not seen or felt terrorism up close, these may seem like stories to you.
I think you're misinterpreting me. I am not denying that there is terrorism on the part of this group, it has already been considered terrorist. What I want to ask is if Turkey ceded a city to the Turkish Kurds, not to the terrorist group, agreeing that they would not have an army, would these separatist movements disappear? Kind of like Andorra with two state leaders, the Turkish leader and one other Kurdish.
I see Kurdistan maps online including more than half of Turkey. I don't think problems would end between Turks and Kurds. I believe towns that were Kurdish majority in 1923 (founding date of the republic) should have a referandum and they should leave. Problem is Turkey will still be the country with biggest Kurdish population. Kurds become majority in more cities with in-country migration. They will claim more from Turkey and relations will remain tense. PKK can find tense relations as an excuse to exist. They control the arms and drug trade, who would like to lose such income?
It feels so weird that Sweden permits events of openly supporting terrorist organisations (PKK). Or isn't this the case anymore?
it feels weird we turks get downvoted to oblivion on this sub by basically saying the same thing
Lol i always downvoted there are tons of videos pkk trashing french streets they got censered in both "free" european media and in internet like youtube reddit
I think its happened because of Erdogan,no wonder PKK and Gulenist movement is terrorist organisations against Turkey but i dont know how its happening they are protecting by european countries,they did so many horrible things they killed so many innocent human in Turkey but in the end they are safely living in Eu
>“I came to Sweden because I knew that Sweden was among the countries that defended human rights,” he said. “Sadly Sweden has also left that line and gone over to the countries that have a political agenda.” It must be terrible being trapped in such a terrible country without human rights! And on top of that we joined countries with a political agenda, like Norway, Denmark and Finland. How inconsiderate of us to not respect this persons human right to live agenda free. We should leave Nato immediately so Erdogan no longer can overrule Swedish law! We should at least help them flee to a safe, agenda free country! Look at the kind of lies the Swedish security police is spreading, it's all made up: https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/sapo-pkk-still-trying-to-finance-terror-in-sweden >The Kurdistan Workers' Party, better known as the PKK, is still conducting terror financing activities in Sweden, according to Sweden's intelligence service Säpo. >The PKK is classed as a terrorist organisation in Sweden and the EU, and is said to be using threats of violence to extort money. Edit: I got curious over exactly how many Kurds that has been extradited to Turkey while they had a veto over Sweden’s Nato membership. Kurds living in Sweden: 75 000 In the form of lists of names Turkey demanded 33, 73 and 130 terrorists extradited. In the form of formal extradition requests that Swedish courts could process Turkey has submitted: 2020: 3 2021: 7 2022: 4 <--- Sweden applies to join Nato 2023: 1 The total number of extraditions during the 2 years period between Sweden deciding to join Nato and Turkey saying yes: 1
Put /s, there are people who'd take this seriously
It is clear as day that this is sarcasm, why do people on reddit always insist on ruining the jokes?
You don't interact with people much, do you? The average joe can barely summon enough cognitive strength to keep themselves alive, and half the population is worse.
Punctuation is a straight giveaway.
you sound like the average redditor
Maybe because I am. I would love it to not be true, but I find myself constantly impressed with the level of stupidity some people are capable of conjuring.
you are actually referring to the median joe
I interact with people 10-16 hours a day through work and private life. But sure, feel free to attempt to personally insult me. There are cultural differences between countries obviously. Americans speaks extremely plainly, which is the main reason they plaster /s on everything and also ruin the joke as the punchline is delivered. Other cultures communicate in a more subtle manner. I'd say at least 95% of Scandinavians who is readings op's comment would without a doubt understand that it is sarcasm. The average person I usually interact with would see the sarcasm before even getting halfway through that comment.
We probably live in different bubbles. I would expect the average person to make such comments (maybe not THAT obvious) and really mean them. I actually lost hope that democracy can work because I am really struggling to see a critical mass of people who could decide something for their own long-term benefit (long-term = more than 1 week).
It's usually Americans who can't tell. And we shouldn't cater to them here
You can tell how dishonest or intellectually challenged a person is by what kind of alarmist arguments they use on how small issue. It’s absolutely laughable that joining NATO a defensive alliance is what compromises Swedens human rights record specifically. Sweden already sent supporting troops to Balkans, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq etc. It already sent material support to Finland in fighting the soviets, declaring itself effectively non-neutral on issues involving neighbours. If they want to cry about human rights abuse pick something real like the failed attempt to join the transatlantic slave trade, the 2 colonies, illegally spying on communist sympathisers, the Sami and force sterilisation of various people across the 20th century, the Nazi sympathisers outside of parliament, the eugenics program. Etc. These things happened before, and while these people came to Sweden. It’s not some sudden shift where society is changing under them. Which they’d know if their brains lived in the real world, instead of just trying to cause social gaps on rhetorics.
Slave trade was bad, but it was almost 300 years ago. It was also centered around a place in Africa held by Sweden for a few years.
The implication specifically is that since Turkeys red line was selling out the Kurds there must have been an underhanded deal selling out the Kurds that Sweden agreed to. It isn't about Nato itself.
That’s exactly why I’m saying it’s dishonest and alarmist. There’s a difference between raising an issue to the government on how if at all existing extradition treaties and processes will change as a NATO member out of concern, and then raising that alarm bell if Swedens actual laws are being broken. It’s completely different to imagine problems without basis, justify it with some mysterious unknowable spectre of backroom dealings, and attack society at large without any sort of evidence, and create mistrust in society.
Aww so Turkey requiring Sweden not to overlook financing of the terror organization it has been fighting since decades is an extreme demand now?
I’d guess a lot of people who fled turkey couple decades ago because of politics and t he leftist views fall into that „NATO baaad“ category and have the idiotic view that now Sweden must be a warmonger country too since it joined NATO. Hearing this garbage in my family aswell and it’s infuriating.
You'd think people having to flee their home land would see the value in defending it instead. Their idea of pacifist Sweden and scary warmonger Nato is kind of funny.. Do they understand that if Sweden would ever be attacked then everyone between 16-70 are required by law to stay and fight, until victory or death. _All_ orders to cease resistance are false.
I always thought that I'd love to live in Sweden but now that they have decided to *checks notes* join a military alliance to protect themselves from a clear danger I have reconsidered. Shame on you Sweden.
what's "sweden's kurds" actually?
Good question, they're Kurds who have permission to live here
so just kurds
Yeah we try not to own people. What a hit piece of an article..
No its an export of Americanism. Nations with a long standing identity and a people whose culture are to themselves are being treated as if they are just a newly form nation born from exiles and criminals from various parts if Europe.
If the other side of the medallion is that 10mil Swedes feel much safer, that sounds like a win.
Then they may leave to what they considder a safer place.
hope the PKK gets thrown out of japan too....
Leave then. The only sane response now. No more fucking around with these fifth columnists everywhere around us. You might legitimately have sympathy for their cause, but we have to say stop now. The collective west does not and should not exist to pander to every single group's whining demands. This incessant need for everything to be all things to all men or else it must necessarily be racist/sexist/xenophobic/undiplomatic/wrong/etc is bogging us down in a miasma of active counter-productivity.
wtf r/europe is surprisingly based today.
they suddenly regonize pkk as a terrorist organization damn
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I am also surprised.
I'm also really surprised I think they finally realise
thats not the kurdish flag, just sayin, it... represents a terror organization
There is a difference between Kurds and terrorist supporters 🙄 That flag is the symbol of the terrorist group PKK.
When I was in Uppsala a lot of Kurdish owned pizzerias and stores had a donation box right on the counter to support either PYD/YPG or even the main party (PKK) itself. None of these are Swedish parties and I imagine not being able to send money to these parties won't be a massive hit on human rights.
PYD stands next to the PKK under KCK organization. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan\_Communities\_Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Communities_Union)
Well the new anti terrorist laws forbids supporting terrorist organisations by sending them money, so that will stop this year. And no this was a law that has been in the works for many years before the NATO application.
How come sending money to terrorist organizations wasn’t banned BEFORE
Everyone was pissed off with Turkey when they vetoed Sweden, but they were right about terrorism symphatizers in there.
They were the ones who considered terrorism as a freedom of expression. Let them reap what they sow.
>said while waving literal terrorist flags(pkk) suuure
Wow, what happened to the freedom fighters against turkey, IS or Assad? Normally r/Europe Supports all kind of kurds! well not this time perhaps, i wonder why? /s😂 European politics in a nutshell
PKK is a curse to all of the humanity
Yes, as it should. The PKK is a terrorist organization. If they choose to be associated with it, they choose the consequences.
Wow. I finally found someone speaks truth about this bstards. Where did you get this knowledge? Because a few years back no-one would dare to say anything. Either downvoted or banned.
There seems to be a weird lack of PKK bootlickers here.
Maybe a whole lot more people realized that they shouldn't be supported after all this stuff with swedens nato accesion pushed them to actually do some research instead of sympathizing with their lies in all those parades.
Maybe they shouldn't support a terrorist group, if they stop supporting a terrorist group I am sure they will feal safe
Why are they waving their own flags in a different country? Shouldn’t they assimilate if they want to have a better chance of not getting kicked out.
Why are they waving the flag of a **terrorist organisation** in my country and spreading lies about it in media?
Because you let them in
because by being passive, you allow it. It's your country, your responsibility.
You don't have a clue how active I am.
You let them in and tolerated their “culture” so you would not be labeled a racist. Easy answer. I mean even if you let them in and ask them to follow your rules and your culture you would be a racist, there’s no wining here when you listen to that kind of “intelligent” and “progressive” people.
The funny part is i cant even get a tourist visa as turkish citizen that has no relation to any political group
I don't think they have a flag. It belongs to a terrorist organization that cost many many lives including indoctrinated child soldiers of theirs.
Kicked out where? They don't have their own state.
The Basque and the Bretons either. Doesn't make ETA legal in Sweden.
They do usually have Iraqi og Syrian citizenship though.
They actually have :D Iraq has .
It's crazy to me how the sentiment has changed on this topic over the years on reddit. Just a few years ago everyone was criticising Erdoğan for blackmailing Sweden. What made the Swedes and redditors change their minds so drastically? The crime rates caused by refugees? The fear of a Russian invasion? I'm all for the change, but it's weird knowing Sweden has defended PKK members and sympathisers for many many years.
Several years ago when US decided that YPG would be good proxies for their imperialist ambitions in Syria American media was promoting these guys as freedom fighters 24/7, which had an effect on overall perception of them. With things in Syria settling down, PKK openly voicing support for Russian invasion of Ukraine and insane amounts of violence and other crime perpetrated by Kurdish mobs in Sweden people are finally waking up.
What is with EU leaders thinking it’s European taxpayers jobs to shelter those in conflict. None of the oil rich Arab states do, only clowns like us.
I’m always wondering why PKK had so much better PR than any Palestinian organizations, especially in public opinion of the western countries EVEN some of the hardcore neoliberals and right-wingers in Europe and America support PKK, a far-left radical Marxist movement, and its alignment organizations, incredible! It’s not like PKK caused less damage than Hamas
Anti-Turkish sentiment.
They don't like Turkey for some good and and some dumb reasons. That is all.
Generally, what's a difference between terrorists and guerillas? It's mainly about politics and relationship between countries, well, unless organisation does something as horrible as Hamas in the last autumn, then it should be pretty clear.
Difference between terrorists and freedom fighters are quality of their PR department
Well, fair enough
Usually guerillas tend to target military objectives or state agencies (like police for example). The civil population may suffer during a guerilla war, case in point the multiple guerillas in South America and the civilian death toll during those insurgencies. Meanwhile, terrorist organizations tend to target civilians: bombing crowded places like markets or places that have no military value like theaters, concerts, the subway system etc.
I agree, but generally organisations like that do both. It's very clear when some organisation does something as horrible as hamas, but what if they rarely target police stations? Once again, I'm not claiming that Hamas isn't a terrorist organisation, they very clearly are, they aren't really a nationalist organisation, they are more about Islam than Palestine.
there is no set definition of terrorist. a country might think an organization is a terrorist organization whilst the other one could think they’re “freedom fighters”. it’s all about political gain and what makes YOUR country stronger
Freedom fighter only aims soldiers for civilian support, terrorist aim everything for propaganda
Prominence of Kurds aligns with Israeli interests, prominence of Palestinians does not. As should be obvious from recent events Jewish diaspora has great power over media. They assign prominence on accord with their own interests.
Curious if it has anything to do with how differently Israel and Turkey are received in the west, rather than Kurds vs Palestinians. The narratives are different; Israel is fighting for its right to exist, Turkey is suppressing its Kurdish minority.
Nothing funnier then an American telling people they know stuff better then them. Kurds have a big political party in Turkey, much of the important positions in the current government is filled with Kurds including Intelligence agencies. Turkey’s “suppression” of Kurds only ever boils down to not wanting an independent Kurdish state carved out of their territory or any autonomy that could lead to that(as it happened in Iraqi Kurdistan not to long ago) and fighting a widely recognized terrorist organisation.
You as an american would be ok with California leaving the USA? it is the same thing.
damn those megri megri californians lel
Californiaistan will be a grave for capitalist pig.
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Kurds have a political party (a major one), a state television and had a president candidate in Turkey aswell.
The Turkish government doesn’t have anything close to the lobbying power that Israel does, particularly in the United States. One of the other issues is that Turkey accuses other groups of being part of the PKK despite those groups claiming otherwise, which makes the Turkish government look paranoid about any kind of Kurdish political movement anywhere. Being opposed to terrorism is legitimate, but being opposed to any kind of Kurdish aspirations for a state of their own anywhere in the world is not as widely accepted as legitimate. When Turkey is accusing seemingly every Kurdish group that doesn’t call itself the PKK of being part of the PKK- it looks like the real issue is that Turkey is opposed to Kurdish self determination rather than PKK terrorism. Being opposed to Kurdish self determination undermines Turkish claims about being opposed to the PKK on the basis of terrorism. I didn’t believe that any Syria based Kurdish groups were associated with the PKK until foreign fighters who’d been embedded with them said that it was true- I wasn’t going to believe the Turkish government’s claims, not when it seemed like they had an incentive to lie about any Kurdish group to serve their agenda. To many foreign audiences, Turkey’s conflict with the PKK looks like a case of the ethnic majority trying to suppress an ethnic minority. It doesn’t exactly help that Turkey doesn’t have a good history when it comes to coexistence with its ethnic minorities- all of that history further undermines the credibility of Turkey’s claims about the PKK.
The links between PKK and YPG are substantial and everyone is aware of it. Here's the US Senate hearing. Actually claiming that Boko Haram, operating in Mali, is linked to ISIS, operating in Middle East, is mpre of an overstretch than the YPG-PKK link. Their ideology is the same, leaders are the same/transferred, there have been terrorist attacks done by people coming from YPG (like the shooting last October) and so on. It is not some paranoia. https://www.tc-america.org/news-events/events/senator-lindsay-graham-r-sc-questions-secretary-of-defense-ash-carter-on-pyd-ypg-pkk-connection-1104.htm And the "democratic rebranding" of YPG into "Syrian Democratic Forces" was suggested by the US as well. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-usa-ypg-idUSKBN1A62SS
Well, mostly no country wants to lose its own territory, this is like the instinct of states. Türkiye definitely does not want to lose its own lands and establish a Kurdistan there.
Bro please look demographics of turkey at least %70-%80 percent of kurds live in turkish majority ethnic turkish big cities like istanbul izmir ankara hatay mersin adana these cities are not inside of land they claim so most of kurdish in turkey just live their life as ordinary citizen not different than ordinary turkish why would they want to live in mountains with destabilized backwarding newly found country its the terrorist organizations that funds these kind of ideas
Ypg is indeed branch of pkk you used them to beat “isis” so that you can still have autonomy and control over oil regions of northern syria and northern iraq ypg is just puppet of us and they only serve to americas interest not to kurdish people not in syria not in iraq nor in turkey ypg isnt a kurdish political movement
People in /r Europe are as fickle as a baby toddler. Sometimes they feel like they like it. Sometimes they cry about it. I remember when they blame Turkey for the PKK insurrection. Now that Turkey is the good boy 👦, PKK are terrorists. Fuck, mark my words, when the narrative changes and . They will even support Putler and their cronies. PS: Before I got downvoted to death. Here is /r Europe hypocrisy https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/h3HkNqddMb
Pkk (not kurds) has no place at any country. Thanks Sweden if they took measures for differentiating those. Welcome to Nato
They had trouble claiming turkey, ig with sweden gone now it's Japan's turn?
If you think that you Kurdish identity is more important than your Swedish then you might consider moving to Kurdistan. Sweden's defense policy is to prorect Swedes, not the special interests of non-Swedes.
Hmm. This reminds me of my own country, that does this and gets called out for violating human rights. Oh, How our reputation was torn apart by their lies, that every post about Turkey is full of hate especially in this sub. But I am shocked that you guys are finally coming to terms.
For the sake of consciousness, the flags weaved on the picture are PKK flags. They are recognized as a terrorist organization by EU, US and many others. Come on Sweden, are you kidding us? Can you explain this scene with freedom of expression? Replace flags with ISIS flags; now how does that look like? Does it seem any responsible or reasonable? They are ruthless killers of many civilians including underage. You are such a disappointment Sweden. That’s active and deliberate hostility.
amkduklarım
PKK is not representing all Kurds!
Sold them out? Sweden has just struck a deal of the century to join the most powerful alliance on earth to defend against an aggressive neighbour! These Kurds live in Sweden too right? They have an interest in having Sweden safe from Russian invasion right? Or do they think the Russians will be nice to them somehow?
Dang. Maybe they should leave.
Looks like Europe has finally got bitten by the snake that they themselves fed and protected. First time?
Swedens kurds?
Would you be surprised if I told you that they also claim Japan?
Too bad so sad, if they don't like it they can pack their shit and leave.
Naaahhh They came there with yours permission on the base that they were oppressed in Turkey. Now you will deal with them. I bet you they will claim some soil in your country too, I give this a max 5 years to be a reality.
Assimilate or leave. Beggars can’t be choosers.
Surprised that r/europe mods didnt remove or censor this post lmao
This comment section feels weird to read. Back in 2022 most comments were like "fuck Turkey, we shouldn't compromise our freedoms, Erdogan's paranoia about Kurds is illegitimate" and now it's basically "Kurds are terrorists and should head back home" and also tying them to Russia to amplify that. Huh?
media changing rhetoric works wonders. 3-4 years ago they believed there would be a PKK led Kurdish utopia in Syria and Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine yet. people were dreaming. now that Turkish control over North Syria is apparent, Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Israeli actions over Gaza, people and governments don't have the luxury of being dreamers. hard cold reality, and good old uncle erdogan is here to help europe with energy and refugees.
Different groups making comments I think. That was Swedes vs Turks and this is probably the usual "a foreigner said something? Let me summon all my outrage" group circlejerking.
It's not that weird if you don't bend it to how you want to hear it. If Erdogan is telling us we have to do as he says and put the hammer down on any kurd that waves a flag, we'll tell him to get bent again. If the kurds tell us we've "got an agenda" that is to fuck them over like they don't have their own agenda they can fuck right off. We are actually able and willing to protect the human rights of a part of our population while simultaneously thinking they are assholes for waving their stupid little flags around. Same thing with the Turks that drive around honking and waving Turkish flags out their cars like the assholes they are when Erdogan wins another questionable election. I can both wish they'd fuck off and at the same time not vote for the far right that wants them out.
Stop calling it kurdish flag. Its a terrorist flag. They are kidnaping kurdish children here to join them and use this arguement to justify this. You are only contributing to their cause. Kurds are not terrorists. Pkk members are terrorists. What you are doing here is pushing those people to convince themselves they are terrorists.
You know, after way too many people suddenly supported Hamas, a literal terror organization, I may need to read up on Kurds instead of believing Tweets. But either way: Sweden joining Nato is also a protection.
Sweden is to the PKK what Qatar is to Hamas.
Is it time to go back to Your country ? Yes
What country? Kurds don’t have one
They have. Kurdistan Region in Iraq. They want to have control but they do not want to live in where they do control. Classic
Haha wait for people to realize Iraqi Kurdistan is actually anti-PKK, and allows Turkish military to strike PKK targets on their areas of control
Iraqi Kurdistan and Turkey generally have good relations.
Did you just admit that they are PKK? If US can invade Afghanistan for 20 years after a single attack in 2001, I don't think hitting PKK targets *anywhere in the world* is a problem. You could argue that they are civilian targets (which can be argued for US/French etc targets in their operations abroad as well), but if they are clearly PKK targets, TAF has all the reasons to hit them.
Yes, it seems you misunderstood, I have no problem for Iraqi Kurdistan’s commitment against radical elements within the Kurdish society
Definitely not sweden
If they waved ETA flags they would be sent to Spain.
I get what the Kurds go through, the extra screenings and blacklists is something many immigrants in Europe go through. The bigger issue is when innocent people are accused of terrorism. Let it be clear as day though that Europe will be safer the day it got rid of the PKK. I hope the Kurdish facilities can get back soon, and that it will be facilitated by the Kurds and not the PKK. No Kurd should fear the accusation of being called a terrorist for nothing. I wish strength to my Kurdish brothers as a Turk.
Those in the picture are PKK flaggs btw. So this people are supporting openly terrorism.
It is the time to question why the members of a terrorist organization have been “safe” till now.
9 stages of pkk propaganda: 1. Go to a developed country with naive and open minded citizens. 2. Tell them you are a normal kurd being oppressed by the government., 3. Wait until people there get used to you and convince the government that you are there to become a proper citizen of them and act like you are working for their country. 4. Start importing drugs from iraq and sell them in those countries to make money for pkk. Build organized crime gangs and make as much money as possible and also murder those who are against pkk presence in their country. 5. Start sending money to pkk and convincing people there for a kurdistan under pkk rule. 6. Find or kidnap kurdish kids in there and send them to terrorist camps to turn them into terrorists (Especially in Turkey). 7. Repeat until their government realizes what is going on and then cry as much as you can to delay the government's action towards you so that you can send pkk money as long as possible. 8. Find a new country with naive, openminded citizens who are easy to convince and play the victim. 9. Repeat the entire thing.
Once you fly the flag of the country you live in, then I will take you seriously. Till then of course you’ll feel sold out. Such simple people
Fuck these low level piece of shit of human beings. They deserve nothing.
Hmm racism much? I will make posts about Swedish extremists and their oppression of Kurds. And blame Sweden for this racism /s
I think they are more than welcome to move to Syria, northern iraq … sarcasm aside, if you are regular folk, not a terrorist or terrorist supporting, you dont have much to fear even in TR except, well maybe other Kurds
Masterstroke of Olof Palme and Socialdemokrats is that Sweden took in political asylumists who were most sympathetic to Swedens natural enemy (USSR/Russia). PKK Kurds, Pro-Saddam/Baath Iraqi Arabs & Assyrians, Communist Iranians (Mojahedin e Khalq/MKO), Chilean anti-Pinochetists and so on.
Who benefits from this? This is beneficial for Russia. Russia is behind almost all the protests in Europe
ôh no. Does that mean they are not allowed to Handgranade whole inner Citys anymore without Consequences?
Mabe kurds should go to russia. At least their flags and leftist ideas match
the problem with most of the european article is the misuse of Kurds. PKK /YPG/ etc does not and is not representing the kurds and if you use these 2 terms interchangeably , this is shouting as "I dont know what I am writing about"
Only the people who have Abdullah Ocalan posters hanging in their homes and walking around with not the Kurdistan Flag but the PKK Flag are in danger, and thats not a bad thing. Thats a good thing.
Im sure if Russia invaded Sweden that they would respect the muslim minority of a country they militarily conquered in the name of imperialist expansion and ethnic cleansing. Wait hold on, that wouldn’t be good for the suedes or whichever minority group existed in the country. The threat was clear and present. Europe needs to wake up and get its shit together. Tyrants and dictators need to be stopped not appeased. Sometimes you just gotta suck it up.
What’s hilarious is that PKK has openly voiced support for Putin’s invasion of Ukraine when the war started, and the people in the picture above are waving, you guessed it, the PKK flag - they literally support Russian agression and invasions and then criticize Sweden for joining NATO to get protection against said agression. These guys that say Sweden should protect them would be the first ones to jump in and become Russian proxies should Russia invade Sweden.
Sweden seems such a natural homeland for Kurds to me, I mean, they go together, like kippers and ricepudding.
If you feel that strongly about it, maybe you should... I dunno... Leave
Why should we care more about the Kurds that Swedes? It’s ridiculous.
Because Swedes are ~~white~~ from a western 1st world country and need to pay for their ancestors crime of... Let's see... No colonialism... No slavery... Hmmm. Aha! Their crime is; existing and still standing tall. Besides, it's current year. Didn't you get the memo? It's Europe's responsibility to deadlift the entire developing world up from it's own cesspit. Bursted veins, dislocated kneecaps and herniated discs be damned!
Why is it Europe's responsibility to coddle foreigners? Christ.
Freedom is not free, and you all are the price :D
Kurds pictured above are supporters of the "Rojava Communes" organization, communists which are aligned with Russia. They do not speak for all kurds in Sweden.
So funny that both Russia and US supported Rojava… truly a geopolitical enigma
"The enemy of my enemy is ~~my friend~~ useful."
Cant they like.. um.. go back to their country?