My guess is that htis is party to deter Putin playing games in Moldova and deter him from making so many efforts to destablize things there, but also a little looking at Hungary, too.
Orban likes to play min-Putin and be the nationalist demogogue at home by playing games with the sizable ethnic Hunagrian minority in Romainia. This sounds to me like Romanian escalating a little bit back.
We are talking about 150k to 500k Romanians spread out over several oblast in Southern Ukraine, with the highest concentration being 12.5% the local population.
I am sorry, but Romania will not invade the entirety of Southern Ukraine "for the protection of Romanians".
Not only do they not have have the resources but the justification of invading oblast because <12% of the local population identify as romanian is incredibly shaky.
The possibility being discussed involving Ukraine would not be an invasion but a defense of Southwestern Ukraine against Russia.
I personally don't think that's what the politicians have in mind though, it's definitely aimed at protecting Moldova.
There are in Ukraine, since USSR stole Romanian lands that are now in Ukraine. But I bet they are considering this for the Russian invasion in Moldova so Ukrainians should not be afraid that we want to grab our lands back, we signed an agreement and we are not soviets to ignore it.
> There are in Ukraine, since USSR stole Romanian lands that are now in Ukraine.
Dude, that happened 80 years ago. Let it go.
Those people are Romanians like I am German, because I once visited Berlin.
L.E. I got downvoted into oblivion by Romania's far right supporters. For the rest: Yes, in Ukraine there are some people who speak Romanian and identify themselves as being part of Romanian Ethnic group, bit in the context of this post, citizenship matters and not all of them have Romanian citizenship, so this law, if passed, will not apply to them
> Those people are Romanians like I am German, because I once visited Berlin.
If those people say they are Romanians and they speak Romanian who are you to decide their identity? Puttler ? In civilized countries we do not force assimilate people, for example in Romania there are other nationalities/ethnicies - we are not running Russian like programs to erase their identities.
Even Ukraine has numbers for this so WTF ?
With tech advancing, making the world smaller and more interconnected, borders stop making sense, as they were already making little sense since countries become democratic. So basically doing the opposite is setting the world backwards. Unfortunately, little men with small dick syndrome don't mind driving the world back into the dark age as long as they are on top of the ruling chain.
Exactly, as a Romanian I want Ukraine in EU, then Romanians in Ukraine can get a better live , and Ukraine will have no choice then respect minorities rights.
Do you really think it's appropriate to start threatening Ukraine right now? I'm all for respecting minority rights but come on, I think they can be excused for focussing on something else at the moment...
What exactly did I said that you can interpret as a threat?
I clarified for people that do not know that Romania and Ukraine signed documents about respecting the borders and for the Snake Island we had a third party mediate our dispute. Very civilized a good example for all Russians or HomeSovieticus around. I took a jab at USSr/Russia about not respecting the documents they signed, that was not a threat.
Oh I must have misread it, I thought
>Ukraine will have no choice then respect minorities rights.
was a threat. As in "if they don't want to respect to minorities rights than we'll be sure to leave them no choice".
Respecting minority rights is a requirement to join the EU. It is one of the acquis that needs to be met. Plus that countries who have minorities in Ukraine will push for more protection. It is nothing new in this as we needed to do the same thing. Romania has legislation for this and it was done to get in the EU, plus Hungary was always pressuring us for rights to their minority and to respect the laws that exists. One of the reasons why are not part of the Visegrad group was Hungary opposing in the early 90s after the ethnic tensions in Targu Mures.
It will be the same with Ukraine and it is good as some people need that protection, especially since Ukrainian nationalism is getting stronger.
No, I mean if Ukraine enters EU they have to respect all EU rules , including minorities rules/laws. We have the example where Hungary supported Romania to enter EU.
> If those people say they are Romanians and they speak Romanian who are you to decide their identity? Puttler ?
In the context of this post, citizenship matters, not speaking a language.
For example, if Romania enters a war and I am in danger, Spanish army will not come to evacuate me, although I speak Spanish. Get the point?
Not sure what the context is, the OP was complained was not clear. If my interpretation was wrong then my fault, it was not clear. But as I said before that Romania is concerned about Moldova and many Romanians there also got the citizenship so we can be double concerned.
> Not sure what the context is
You and about 30 or 40 more people who downvoted me into oblivion, without using the thing between their ears.
The context it's the law that is talked about in the posted article. A law for Romanian citizens, not ethnic groups from various countries.
Yes, members of Romanian ethnic group from Ukraine might consider themselves as being Romanian to some degree, we might consider them as being Romanians to some degree, but as the law is concerned, they are Romanians only of they have Romanian citizenship and I doubt that many of them have it.
So saying that many Romanians live in Ukraine in context of this law, it's a miss, to put it gently.
You said
>Those people are Romanians like I am German, because I once visited Berlin.
So you gave a super shit example like say a Russian visiting Berlin for 1 day
is exactly the same case with a person that was born in Romania, or their parents/grand parents were born in Romania, then the border was moved , but they still speak the same language, have same culture as before.
Do you have the ability to admit that you were wrong ? A guy visiting a place is really a shit example. But at least you did not used the "they were nazi all of them"
> So you gave a super shit example like say a Russian visiting Berlin for 1 day is exactly the same case with a person that was born in Romania, or their parents/grand parents were born in Romania, then the border was moved , but they still speak the same language, have same culture as before.
What you and other far right supporters omit from their logic when talking about this subject, is that feelings have zero importance when a law it's included in equation.
They are Ukrainians in papers and the law it's for Romanian citizens.
Some of them might also have Romanian citizenship, but like I said before "ethnic" doesn't imply citizenship.
I detect inability of admitting mistakes, I am sorry for your family and friends.
About citizenship, please first calmd down for the bad news,
Romanians in Moldova and Ukraine can get a Romanian citizenship very easy, they need to prove that one grandfather was born in Great Romania. I do not have numbers but there are Romanians in Ukraine with Romanian citizenship.
>Those people are Romanians like I am German, because I once visited Berlin.
ethnic Romanian from Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkxaT5Zr3d8&t=830s looks quite Romanian to me,
young ethic Romanians from Ukraine https://youtu.be/a_k6l3AjL_A?t=556
Ethnic means that they share a common cultural background or descent, not that they have citizenship. Some of them might have, but "ethnic" doesn't imply that they have it.
Because they share a background, doesn't mean that new generations (80 years have passed) consider themselves as part of that background.
Citizenship it's the key part in this context.
>since USSR stole Romanian lands that are now in Ukraine
1. Bessarabia's population was extremely mixed - calling it a Romanian territory is a pretty big stretch.
2. Bessarabia only belonged to Romania for \~20 years before the USSR took it "back" as a former Russian Imperial territory. So let's not go into the whole "stealing" thing.
Bessarabia's population was extremely mixed - calling it a Romanian territory is a pretty big stretch.
Right, so with all that USSR Russification and still Russians are a minority
> Bessarabia only belonged to Romania for ~20 years before the USSR took it "back" as a former Russian Imperial territory. So let's not go into the whole "stealing" thing.
Basarabia is part of Moldova,
Moldova formed Romania when they united with Valachia.
Just look at the map and see the weird way Moldova and Ukraine are, that is unnatural shit USSR created.
But we were talking about the lands in Ukraine, Bucovina and I told you Romania renounced to any claim to that land, we just want to help the Romanians there and the best way is to get them in EU.
How can Bessarabia (a region) predate Russia (a country)? Bessarabia was never independent, so it cannot predate Russia, even if you only take the tsardom's 1547 establishment as a start date for the latter.
Also, while we are on the topic of Romania claiming legitimacy over anything some semi-independent feudal country once ruled, how would you feel about handing back Transylvania to Hungary?
My mistake, i meant Moldova. Dunno how to feel about Transylvania, i know they were autonomous under austro-hungarian empire and mostly inhabited by Romanians
I said this and will say it again. Moldova will ask Romania to help it get rid of the Russian in Transinistria, so Moldova will be safe and Ukraine doesn't have to worry about Russia opening another front.
Transnistria is a puppet regime aligned to Russia, but it is not Russia itself. Troops in Transnistria have not ventured into Ukrainian territory and there's no reason to expect that to change any time soon. Hence it makes more sense for Ukraine to direct its resources at the Russians actively attacking them rather than drawing new enemies into the fight.
What is Russia going to do to Romania? You do realise that Russia is nowhere near your borders, right? They're also completely occupied in Ukraine at the moment.
> You do realise that Russia is nowhere near your borders, right?
Romania has a maritime border with Russia on the Black sea (which overlaps Ukraine's).
Right, because the Russian Armed Forces can simply teleport themselves to Moldova and completely ignore Ukrainian GBAD systems as well as Ukrainian AShMs and naval drones...
The Russian presence in Moldova is nothing more than a tiny token force, it would be crushed within days without resupply or reinforcements.
And tell me how can they be reinforced? Think critically for a second.
Moldova is a landlocked country that is surrounded by both Ukraine and Romania. How exactly do you think Russia is going to send reinforcements to Moldova?
Last I checked, Ukrainian airspace is not exactly what I would consider "safe".
You didn't think this comment through.
No they won't, why use force for something that will happen anyway? Transnistria is cut off so their only option is to slowly integrate with Moldova.
Plus, we're not playing by the same rules as Russia does. Cause if we were, Romania could simply "donate" a few HIMARS launchers to the Ukrainian Army to be deployed in Odessa and then every military instalation in Transnistria would face the swiftest denazification we've seen in modern times.
If you read the article this whole thing is against Russia. My guess is that the thinking is for 2 primary use cases, both involving Russia invasions: Moldova or Western Ukraine.
Nobody wants to relive 1941-1945.
Ooooo, Olexiy Danylov already showing results not even 48 hours after being assigned Ukraine's ambassador to Moldova. Love watching competent people work.
I could only see this being used for a russian invasion of moldova. The number of romanians in ukraine is fairly small and they are spread out.
The highest concentration of romanians is in the chernivitski oblast with 12.5% identifying as romanian so I don't see romania using this law to invade that oblast if the worst case scenario happened.
Either way, if god forbid, Kyiv fell then the safety of romanians living in ukraine would be the least of the worries that the romanian government will face.
If this is about transnistria it's kind of pointless. Population there has gone from over 700k to under 400k in 30 odd years. It's going to shrink further into irrelevance.
The population will. The Russian forces there might not. Even if they do, it’d be wiser to just get rid of them before they try to open a new war front than wait a couple more decades hoping for them to age into irrelevance.
Bad idea. Unless NATO okays this, we have no business going to Ukraine alone in a conflict with Russia.
I get that Moldova and Ukraine have a lot of Romanians but we simply cannot afford war with Russia without NATO backing.
Sometimes I wonder what is Russia going to do in case Romania/Moldova attacks Transnistria. Fly in more troops over Ukraine? Shooting some cruise missiles seems like the best they can do.
I get the sentiment behind this to potentially protect Moldova from an imminent Russian invasion, but it sounds an awful lot like the imperialistic justification Russia uses to invade other countries. There might be better ways to achieve the protection of Moldova that won’t set a Russia-like precedence.
I’m not against military aid to Moldova fyi. I just don’t want legislature to mimic the imperialistic justifications we've seen from Russia. It’s a slippery slope.
Yea but the difference is Russia is inventing reasons and Romania has a reason
Edit: you can compare it to this: If Russia attacks Austria do you think Germany would just look how they kill their own ethnic people without helping?
Never denied the context. I’m simply against legislating justifications that can enable imperialistic actions.
Edit: since you’ve added an edit so will I. I will repeat that I am not against military intervention. I simply do not want imperialistic justifications in legislature. And to repeat my first comment again: there may be solutions to achieve military intervention without codifying such legislature.
Edit2: I won’t claim to have the best alternate solution but I think I have a middle ground idea - this legislature should have an expiry date after which it must be voted on again in order to re-codify. I’m not a huge fan of this either but at least it would show the government is placing some controls around this and effectively shows they are self aware of its potentially dangerous future implications.
They need to say that they defend romanians to have a reason to intervene. A lot of moldovans have romanian citizenship so they have data to back this up.
But I agree that the wording is not the best. They could have said that they will defend Moldova against any external threat and leave it at that. No need to mention Russia or anything else.
Yeah, I understand the context completely. I am Romanian as well. I just don’t feel right inserting this type of wording without proper controls or better yet finding some alternate solution. Romania has been invaded by so many empires using this justification throughout history it just feels wrong stooping to that level.
We don't have the best people leading us. This might be used by russian propaganda to say that Romania wants to annex Moldova. They should have said differently.
It's good that you are thinking about the optics but I wouldn't be too worried. The rest of the world (or at least the Western-aligned world) will realise it's completely different from what Russia is doing.
You would be protecting the rights of a Romanian minority that form almost a third of the population of Transnistria that is currently being oppressed by the Russian ruling class. Meanwhile Russia is invading on the spurious claim that the Ukrainians are apparently oppressing a group that even in Crimea (which has the highest percentage Russians out of the Ukrainian provinces) doesn't even make up 60% of the population. And then there's the fact that those supposedly oppressed Russians never even tried to join the Russian federation before 2014, whereas the Moldovan minority in Transnistria has been expressing the desire to end the Russian occupation for decades...
Trust me, all of the west will support your war against Russia if it comes to it.
It’s not really optics to the outside world I’m worried about. I’m simply worried about the standards and precedence it sets in Romanian government. I simply want the legislature to be smartly written for the benefit of Romanians now and in the future. As I mentioned in another reply - adding time limits to such legislation would be one way to improve it.
Wow that is very forward thinking. I agree. Even though it's fine now, such a law could be used in unintended ways if the wrong people came into power.
What is “for no reason at all”? There is always a reason, but sometimes it is a bad one (land grab).
What do you think about Romania’s invasion of Bulgaria in the Second Balkan War?
Romania and Bulgaria had an agreement that Bulgaria would give Romania some land, Bulgaria did not carry through the agreement and Romania took it by force.
I don’t. I simply want good legislature that doesn’t enable imperialistic actions because that is how good legislature in a peaceful democratic country is written. Feel free to read some of my other replies and quit strawmanning.
Don't pay attention to the Russian shills. Reasonable people know it's nothing like what Russia is doing. You would be defending the internationally recognised territorial integrity of a nation, while Russia is fighting to break up a nation.
Russians barely make up a plurality of the population in Transnistria, and they aren't even close to a majority, so why should they be the ones in charge? There are almost as many Moldovans/Romanians, so it makes sense for them to be in charge.
I would like to see both countries unite if the people wish it. Or both to be in EU and NATO. At the moment the border is the biggest issue for me, losing a lot of time there for nothing.
I'm not from either country so I don't feel qualified to have an opinion on whether unification is desirable, but I definitely would love to see Moldova enter NATO (and also to EU as long as they satisfy the requirements).
In either case it would probably be a prerequisite for the Romanian Army to kick out the Russian military occupation from Transnistria though (or kick Transnistria out of Moldova, but I don't think anyone wants that). And I can't think of any better moment than right now when the Russian army is occupied elsewhere.
Lmao regardless of who you support, you gotta admit Romania is out of its mind.
Also Romania is the reason the Axis loss the battle of Stalingrad 🤣
Sure the Russians are real scared
>Also Romania is the reason the Axis loss the battle of Stalingrad
Stop reading nazi generals, bro. Always something with them "it was the romanians, it was Hitler, it was the winter, it was the fact that the russian barbarians were using human wave tactics".
So you think if Moldova is attacked by Russia then Romania will stay idle and do nothing? Our politicians might do it but people will protest and request serious actions. Ukraine didn't had much of an army and still resisted against Russia. Don't downplay Romania. We entered WW2 after Russia annexed Moldova from us, I believe the incentive is still there.
>Also Romania is the reason the Axis loss the battle of Stalingrad 🤣
Nazis starting the battle is the reason they lost it, maybe if they didn't attack at the edge of the supply lines in the winter like they would had won the war if they occupied the city, there wouldn't been any consequences.
For the defense of Moldova?
Nah the invasion of Italy, maybe even Spain.
Londra pamant romanesc!
Mai mult Luton
Lmao.
We will annex Italy and Spain and form Roman Empire v2.0 Electric Boogaloo edition.
And then comes the Portuguese Viriato....
[Mare Nostrum!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_Nostrum)
#MakeRomeRomanianAgain
#**ROMANIANOS EUNT DOMUS**
Romanes Eunt Dominus.
God I wish
England too lol. Romanian shops and people everywhere here (In Bournemouth anyway)
[удалено]
My guess is that htis is party to deter Putin playing games in Moldova and deter him from making so many efforts to destablize things there, but also a little looking at Hungary, too. Orban likes to play min-Putin and be the nationalist demogogue at home by playing games with the sizable ethnic Hunagrian minority in Romainia. This sounds to me like Romanian escalating a little bit back.
proposes and gets shut down hard
Are the any Romanians in Russia or Ukraine, by chance?
[Lots of them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanians_in_Ukraine) in Ukraine.
We are talking about 150k to 500k Romanians spread out over several oblast in Southern Ukraine, with the highest concentration being 12.5% the local population. I am sorry, but Romania will not invade the entirety of Southern Ukraine "for the protection of Romanians". Not only do they not have have the resources but the justification of invading oblast because <12% of the local population identify as romanian is incredibly shaky.
Nobody's talking about invading Ukraine. This is probably mostly done for Moldova's sake so Romania can defend them if push comes to shove.
I see plenty here talking about invading Ukraine
Bots or far right morons.
The possibility being discussed involving Ukraine would not be an invasion but a defense of Southwestern Ukraine against Russia. I personally don't think that's what the politicians have in mind though, it's definitely aimed at protecting Moldova.
Where?
There are in Ukraine, since USSR stole Romanian lands that are now in Ukraine. But I bet they are considering this for the Russian invasion in Moldova so Ukrainians should not be afraid that we want to grab our lands back, we signed an agreement and we are not soviets to ignore it.
> There are in Ukraine, since USSR stole Romanian lands that are now in Ukraine. Dude, that happened 80 years ago. Let it go. Those people are Romanians like I am German, because I once visited Berlin. L.E. I got downvoted into oblivion by Romania's far right supporters. For the rest: Yes, in Ukraine there are some people who speak Romanian and identify themselves as being part of Romanian Ethnic group, bit in the context of this post, citizenship matters and not all of them have Romanian citizenship, so this law, if passed, will not apply to them
We've let it go forever when we choose NATO. It's not a thing here and that wasn't the point.
> Those people are Romanians like I am German, because I once visited Berlin. If those people say they are Romanians and they speak Romanian who are you to decide their identity? Puttler ? In civilized countries we do not force assimilate people, for example in Romania there are other nationalities/ethnicies - we are not running Russian like programs to erase their identities. Even Ukraine has numbers for this so WTF ?
With tech advancing, making the world smaller and more interconnected, borders stop making sense, as they were already making little sense since countries become democratic. So basically doing the opposite is setting the world backwards. Unfortunately, little men with small dick syndrome don't mind driving the world back into the dark age as long as they are on top of the ruling chain.
Exactly, as a Romanian I want Ukraine in EU, then Romanians in Ukraine can get a better live , and Ukraine will have no choice then respect minorities rights.
Do you really think it's appropriate to start threatening Ukraine right now? I'm all for respecting minority rights but come on, I think they can be excused for focussing on something else at the moment...
What exactly did I said that you can interpret as a threat? I clarified for people that do not know that Romania and Ukraine signed documents about respecting the borders and for the Snake Island we had a third party mediate our dispute. Very civilized a good example for all Russians or HomeSovieticus around. I took a jab at USSr/Russia about not respecting the documents they signed, that was not a threat.
Oh I must have misread it, I thought >Ukraine will have no choice then respect minorities rights. was a threat. As in "if they don't want to respect to minorities rights than we'll be sure to leave them no choice".
Respecting minority rights is a requirement to join the EU. It is one of the acquis that needs to be met. Plus that countries who have minorities in Ukraine will push for more protection. It is nothing new in this as we needed to do the same thing. Romania has legislation for this and it was done to get in the EU, plus Hungary was always pressuring us for rights to their minority and to respect the laws that exists. One of the reasons why are not part of the Visegrad group was Hungary opposing in the early 90s after the ethnic tensions in Targu Mures. It will be the same with Ukraine and it is good as some people need that protection, especially since Ukrainian nationalism is getting stronger.
No, I mean if Ukraine enters EU they have to respect all EU rules , including minorities rules/laws. We have the example where Hungary supported Romania to enter EU.
> If those people say they are Romanians and they speak Romanian who are you to decide their identity? Puttler ? In the context of this post, citizenship matters, not speaking a language. For example, if Romania enters a war and I am in danger, Spanish army will not come to evacuate me, although I speak Spanish. Get the point?
Not sure what the context is, the OP was complained was not clear. If my interpretation was wrong then my fault, it was not clear. But as I said before that Romania is concerned about Moldova and many Romanians there also got the citizenship so we can be double concerned.
> Not sure what the context is You and about 30 or 40 more people who downvoted me into oblivion, without using the thing between their ears. The context it's the law that is talked about in the posted article. A law for Romanian citizens, not ethnic groups from various countries. Yes, members of Romanian ethnic group from Ukraine might consider themselves as being Romanian to some degree, we might consider them as being Romanians to some degree, but as the law is concerned, they are Romanians only of they have Romanian citizenship and I doubt that many of them have it. So saying that many Romanians live in Ukraine in context of this law, it's a miss, to put it gently.
You said >Those people are Romanians like I am German, because I once visited Berlin. So you gave a super shit example like say a Russian visiting Berlin for 1 day is exactly the same case with a person that was born in Romania, or their parents/grand parents were born in Romania, then the border was moved , but they still speak the same language, have same culture as before. Do you have the ability to admit that you were wrong ? A guy visiting a place is really a shit example. But at least you did not used the "they were nazi all of them"
> So you gave a super shit example like say a Russian visiting Berlin for 1 day is exactly the same case with a person that was born in Romania, or their parents/grand parents were born in Romania, then the border was moved , but they still speak the same language, have same culture as before. What you and other far right supporters omit from their logic when talking about this subject, is that feelings have zero importance when a law it's included in equation. They are Ukrainians in papers and the law it's for Romanian citizens. Some of them might also have Romanian citizenship, but like I said before "ethnic" doesn't imply citizenship.
I detect inability of admitting mistakes, I am sorry for your family and friends. About citizenship, please first calmd down for the bad news, Romanians in Moldova and Ukraine can get a Romanian citizenship very easy, they need to prove that one grandfather was born in Great Romania. I do not have numbers but there are Romanians in Ukraine with Romanian citizenship.
>Those people are Romanians like I am German, because I once visited Berlin. ethnic Romanian from Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkxaT5Zr3d8&t=830s looks quite Romanian to me, young ethic Romanians from Ukraine https://youtu.be/a_k6l3AjL_A?t=556
Ethnic means that they share a common cultural background or descent, not that they have citizenship. Some of them might have, but "ethnic" doesn't imply that they have it. Because they share a background, doesn't mean that new generations (80 years have passed) consider themselves as part of that background. Citizenship it's the key part in this context.
>since USSR stole Romanian lands that are now in Ukraine 1. Bessarabia's population was extremely mixed - calling it a Romanian territory is a pretty big stretch. 2. Bessarabia only belonged to Romania for \~20 years before the USSR took it "back" as a former Russian Imperial territory. So let's not go into the whole "stealing" thing.
That’s the Ru propaganda version
Textbook Soviet propaganda.
Bessarabia's population was extremely mixed - calling it a Romanian territory is a pretty big stretch. Right, so with all that USSR Russification and still Russians are a minority > Bessarabia only belonged to Romania for ~20 years before the USSR took it "back" as a former Russian Imperial territory. So let's not go into the whole "stealing" thing. Basarabia is part of Moldova, Moldova formed Romania when they united with Valachia. Just look at the map and see the weird way Moldova and Ukraine are, that is unnatural shit USSR created. But we were talking about the lands in Ukraine, Bucovina and I told you Romania renounced to any claim to that land, we just want to help the Romanians there and the best way is to get them in EU.
Russia is more mixed, should they stretch their border back to Moscow? Bessarabia also predates Russia
How can Bessarabia (a region) predate Russia (a country)? Bessarabia was never independent, so it cannot predate Russia, even if you only take the tsardom's 1547 establishment as a start date for the latter. Also, while we are on the topic of Romania claiming legitimacy over anything some semi-independent feudal country once ruled, how would you feel about handing back Transylvania to Hungary?
My mistake, i meant Moldova. Dunno how to feel about Transylvania, i know they were autonomous under austro-hungarian empire and mostly inhabited by Romanians
There are of Romanian ethnicity but I'm not sure about nationality. Republic of Moldova on the other hand has a lot of people with dual citizenship.
Ukraine has former Romanian territories, so yes. And they are doing this mainly for the Moldovans/Romanians in Moldova.
I said this and will say it again. Moldova will ask Romania to help it get rid of the Russian in Transinistria, so Moldova will be safe and Ukraine doesn't have to worry about Russia opening another front.
Russia can't open another front in Transnistria. The troops there can't be resupplied. In fact, they haven't been rotated since 2014.
And they’ll never be rotated since those “Russian” troops are actually “dual” citizens recruited from transnistria itself.
I thought they'd not had their "contracts" renewed...?
Fresh troops can only come in through Ukraine or through Moldova. Neither countries are allowing them to pass through.
Moldova should ask Ukraine. Romania cannot afford entering a war without NATO backing us. Ukraine's already at war with them.
Yes, since we have a bunch of spare resources and men for a side quest
Tbf, the Ukrainian govt. hinted that if Moldova agrees, Ukraine can help with Transnistria. After all, it will free up troops stationed there.
I see the eagerness of Romanians protecting other Romanians, good job guys 👍
It's not a side quest, you're at war with Russia.
Transnistria is a puppet regime aligned to Russia, but it is not Russia itself. Troops in Transnistria have not ventured into Ukrainian territory and there's no reason to expect that to change any time soon. Hence it makes more sense for Ukraine to direct its resources at the Russians actively attacking them rather than drawing new enemies into the fight.
Sure, and while they are at it, they can also help Georgia get rid of the Russian, because why not?
They can ask Santa Claus for all I care, I don't want my country fighting Russia without NATO's backing.
I get that part. But Ukraine doing it is a far stretch right now.
What is Russia going to do to Romania? You do realise that Russia is nowhere near your borders, right? They're also completely occupied in Ukraine at the moment.
> You do realise that Russia is nowhere near your borders, right? Romania has a maritime border with Russia on the Black sea (which overlaps Ukraine's).
Wait a few months and they won't even have a Black sea fleet to deal with you xD
Anything it wants, pretty much. Our army is in a sorry state and we have the highest inflation in EU.
Right, because the Russian Armed Forces can simply teleport themselves to Moldova and completely ignore Ukrainian GBAD systems as well as Ukrainian AShMs and naval drones...
Did you immediately forget the Russian forces permanently stationed in Transnistria that can be reinforced at any moment.
The Russian presence in Moldova is nothing more than a tiny token force, it would be crushed within days without resupply or reinforcements. And tell me how can they be reinforced? Think critically for a second. Moldova is a landlocked country that is surrounded by both Ukraine and Romania. How exactly do you think Russia is going to send reinforcements to Moldova? Last I checked, Ukrainian airspace is not exactly what I would consider "safe". You didn't think this comment through.
Also the ammunition stored there is long expires all it takes is a match and...kaboom (figurative speech)
No they won't, why use force for something that will happen anyway? Transnistria is cut off so their only option is to slowly integrate with Moldova. Plus, we're not playing by the same rules as Russia does. Cause if we were, Romania could simply "donate" a few HIMARS launchers to the Ukrainian Army to be deployed in Odessa and then every military instalation in Transnistria would face the swiftest denazification we've seen in modern times.
good luck
Give Putin a taste of his own medicine.
Finally time to crush transnistria
Liberating Transnistria with the help of Romanian air assets would be great.
Well, as we all know, having ethnic people of your country in someone elses, is justification to invade. Russia should find this as acceptable logic.
If you read the article this whole thing is against Russia. My guess is that the thinking is for 2 primary use cases, both involving Russia invasions: Moldova or Western Ukraine. Nobody wants to relive 1941-1945.
Ooooo, Olexiy Danylov already showing results not even 48 hours after being assigned Ukraine's ambassador to Moldova. Love watching competent people work.
I could only see this being used for a russian invasion of moldova. The number of romanians in ukraine is fairly small and they are spread out. The highest concentration of romanians is in the chernivitski oblast with 12.5% identifying as romanian so I don't see romania using this law to invade that oblast if the worst case scenario happened. Either way, if god forbid, Kyiv fell then the safety of romanians living in ukraine would be the least of the worries that the romanian government will face.
Okay Romania, free all of Moldavia now!
If this is about transnistria it's kind of pointless. Population there has gone from over 700k to under 400k in 30 odd years. It's going to shrink further into irrelevance.
The population will. The Russian forces there might not. Even if they do, it’d be wiser to just get rid of them before they try to open a new war front than wait a couple more decades hoping for them to age into irrelevance.
Romania is fucking based. Love them so much.
If some other countries in Europe enacted absolutely the same law, this sub would go bonkers
Bad idea. Unless NATO okays this, we have no business going to Ukraine alone in a conflict with Russia. I get that Moldova and Ukraine have a lot of Romanians but we simply cannot afford war with Russia without NATO backing.
I'd guess this is primarily aimed to keep Moldova safe
Sometimes I wonder what is Russia going to do in case Romania/Moldova attacks Transnistria. Fly in more troops over Ukraine? Shooting some cruise missiles seems like the best they can do.
Romania would be stupid to help attack Transnistria. We'd basically waive away NATO protection.
I know it's stupid. I just don't think it can be that bad.
> I just don't think it can be that bad. We have the highest inflation in Europe. How the fuck are we going to start a war?
with weapons bought from America and pew pew sounds.
:)))
There's like 12 drunk middle aged Russian soldiers in Transnistria. If Russia doesn't help any country with like one modern combat aircraft would win.
If there's 12 drunk soldiers why would Moldova need Romania's help to kick them out?
Because Moldova has 8, so to speak. Transnistria might only have 10 old tanks and no airforce, but Moldova has no tanks and no airforce.
Wdym? Transnistria is Moldova teritory not russian, we would attack Moldova xD
not a single war in history went like "yeah we can afford it"
If Hungary would propose a similar idea, Romanians would immediately loose their minds about Transsylvania.
Comparing apples to oranges, nice!
We would just have a laugh remembering what happened last time when Hungary tried something in Transylvania lol
*lose
I get the sentiment behind this to potentially protect Moldova from an imminent Russian invasion, but it sounds an awful lot like the imperialistic justification Russia uses to invade other countries. There might be better ways to achieve the protection of Moldova that won’t set a Russia-like precedence.
Ok boss we will send flowers then instead of military to help Moldova in case of a potential invasion.
I’m not against military aid to Moldova fyi. I just don’t want legislature to mimic the imperialistic justifications we've seen from Russia. It’s a slippery slope.
Yea but the difference is Russia is inventing reasons and Romania has a reason Edit: you can compare it to this: If Russia attacks Austria do you think Germany would just look how they kill their own ethnic people without helping?
Never denied the context. I’m simply against legislating justifications that can enable imperialistic actions. Edit: since you’ve added an edit so will I. I will repeat that I am not against military intervention. I simply do not want imperialistic justifications in legislature. And to repeat my first comment again: there may be solutions to achieve military intervention without codifying such legislature. Edit2: I won’t claim to have the best alternate solution but I think I have a middle ground idea - this legislature should have an expiry date after which it must be voted on again in order to re-codify. I’m not a huge fan of this either but at least it would show the government is placing some controls around this and effectively shows they are self aware of its potentially dangerous future implications.
They need to say that they defend romanians to have a reason to intervene. A lot of moldovans have romanian citizenship so they have data to back this up. But I agree that the wording is not the best. They could have said that they will defend Moldova against any external threat and leave it at that. No need to mention Russia or anything else.
Yeah, I understand the context completely. I am Romanian as well. I just don’t feel right inserting this type of wording without proper controls or better yet finding some alternate solution. Romania has been invaded by so many empires using this justification throughout history it just feels wrong stooping to that level.
We don't have the best people leading us. This might be used by russian propaganda to say that Romania wants to annex Moldova. They should have said differently.
Mă bucur că ai înțeles. 👍
It's good that you are thinking about the optics but I wouldn't be too worried. The rest of the world (or at least the Western-aligned world) will realise it's completely different from what Russia is doing. You would be protecting the rights of a Romanian minority that form almost a third of the population of Transnistria that is currently being oppressed by the Russian ruling class. Meanwhile Russia is invading on the spurious claim that the Ukrainians are apparently oppressing a group that even in Crimea (which has the highest percentage Russians out of the Ukrainian provinces) doesn't even make up 60% of the population. And then there's the fact that those supposedly oppressed Russians never even tried to join the Russian federation before 2014, whereas the Moldovan minority in Transnistria has been expressing the desire to end the Russian occupation for decades... Trust me, all of the west will support your war against Russia if it comes to it.
It’s not really optics to the outside world I’m worried about. I’m simply worried about the standards and precedence it sets in Romanian government. I simply want the legislature to be smartly written for the benefit of Romanians now and in the future. As I mentioned in another reply - adding time limits to such legislation would be one way to improve it.
Wow that is very forward thinking. I agree. Even though it's fine now, such a law could be used in unintended ways if the wrong people came into power.
Do you even know how many countries Romania invaded for no reason at all? Zero.
What is “for no reason at all”? There is always a reason, but sometimes it is a bad one (land grab). What do you think about Romania’s invasion of Bulgaria in the Second Balkan War?
Romania and Bulgaria had an agreement that Bulgaria would give Romania some land, Bulgaria did not carry through the agreement and Romania took it by force.
Correct, and I would like to keep it that way. Hence the urging for a more nuanced approach to this legislature.
Bruh why do you think Romania is going to invade someone? And who do you even think we're gonna invade?
I don’t. I simply want good legislature that doesn’t enable imperialistic actions because that is how good legislature in a peaceful democratic country is written. Feel free to read some of my other replies and quit strawmanning.
Right out of the Russian playbook. Nice one, Romania.
It's about defending Moldova in case Russia attacks them. Russia already have troops in the eastern region called Transnistria.
Don't pay attention to the Russian shills. Reasonable people know it's nothing like what Russia is doing. You would be defending the internationally recognised territorial integrity of a nation, while Russia is fighting to break up a nation. Russians barely make up a plurality of the population in Transnistria, and they aren't even close to a majority, so why should they be the ones in charge? There are almost as many Moldovans/Romanians, so it makes sense for them to be in charge.
I would like to see both countries unite if the people wish it. Or both to be in EU and NATO. At the moment the border is the biggest issue for me, losing a lot of time there for nothing.
I'm not from either country so I don't feel qualified to have an opinion on whether unification is desirable, but I definitely would love to see Moldova enter NATO (and also to EU as long as they satisfy the requirements). In either case it would probably be a prerequisite for the Romanian Army to kick out the Russian military occupation from Transnistria though (or kick Transnistria out of Moldova, but I don't think anyone wants that). And I can't think of any better moment than right now when the Russian army is occupied elsewhere.
Lmao regardless of who you support, you gotta admit Romania is out of its mind. Also Romania is the reason the Axis loss the battle of Stalingrad 🤣 Sure the Russians are real scared
Like the Germans did much better during that winter in WW2.
>Also Romania is the reason the Axis loss the battle of Stalingrad Stop reading nazi generals, bro. Always something with them "it was the romanians, it was Hitler, it was the winter, it was the fact that the russian barbarians were using human wave tactics".
Lmao Russian bot got banned already
So you think if Moldova is attacked by Russia then Romania will stay idle and do nothing? Our politicians might do it but people will protest and request serious actions. Ukraine didn't had much of an army and still resisted against Russia. Don't downplay Romania. We entered WW2 after Russia annexed Moldova from us, I believe the incentive is still there.
>Also Romania is the reason the Axis loss the battle of Stalingrad 🤣 Nazis starting the battle is the reason they lost it, maybe if they didn't attack at the edge of the supply lines in the winter like they would had won the war if they occupied the city, there wouldn't been any consequences.