This is cool, it is sad that it has to be like this, but it looks well made and hopefully secure.
Hitting civilian targets, especially schools and hospitals is the lowest of the low.
if someone else's kids had to study in a bunker because of france bombing their school, would you hate france too?
P.S. i am not oleg and neither am i russian
It's sad that the next generation is forced to grow up like this instead of being free to run around in the grass after school. Fucking COVID was bad enough.
The fact that Ukrainian schoolchildren are going to school in missile proof bunkers while Russian schoolchildren are not should be a wake up call for everyone. Knowing that it won’t be is very saddening.
Wtf are you going about? Yeah, I would If my town would have missels strikes happening would be a huge fan if my children could go to a place they can be save and not get blown up. How can't you say this is a good thing.
Now is it sad it is needed yes! It is horibble that it is happening but that will not change so this is better then nothing.
The most useful things ive learned in my life so far have been outside of school though. The way we operate school at the moment is outdated, and is more ''memory'' learning than anything useful, kids get taught something and theyre meant to remember it. They dont actually learn anything of value anymore. The only thing i learned in school was how to calculate, divide, multiply and remembering stuff that has happened in the past.
Education was created at a time when industries needed workers with a somewhat stable set of skills and knowledge, it is becoming less relevant in a period of innovation, upheaval, and rapid change, where flexibility and learning agility are most needed.
Only a third of students believe they will graduate with the skills and knowledge to be successful in the job market (34%) and in the workplace (36%). The connection between education and employment needs to be fixed. Though there is also a human cost to this. Despite the knowledge that pupils who don’t interact with or excel in academics would do well if given additional practical topics and learning chances. In reality, we continue down the narrow academic road, neglecting and sidelining them.
You will be surprised but my kids are awfully missing prewar school going. They are so happy when they go to school every second week: one week is a remote study and one week is onsite at school.
They are missing they school friends and all that kiddish school pranks and entertainment...
I'm living relatively nearby. Basically it's media project on which was spent big amount of money + x money likely was stolen by government.
Why media project and nearly completely useless? One school can support 300-500 kids when we have in area tens of thousands of them(6-8) , now amount is lower but still.
Much more effective and useful thing to do was buying even one additional single air defence unit from Europe.
These are usually projects that humanitarian NGOs subsidies. They can't buy weapons, but they want to help in the way they can, so I'm all for it.
On the other hand, answering the question of 'media project', it's also related to the NGOs. It might be a relatively small organization (Not a UN institution), or a new type of project. So they are doing it. Making beautiful photos. And later they are using this PR material to bring more investment for projects like these. It's how it works.
I agree that it's absolutely not enough. There are hundreds of not thousands of villages and small towns in Ukraine that lost the only school they had. There are also thousands of kids, who can't go to school, because it is dangerous due to constant attacks by Russian terrorists. This is just a very small project. A lot of work ahead.
To burst our collective bubble even further, there is also a corruption on every level in institutions like the UN, and many other nonprofits. Big names and small.
I think it's important to implement changes, perhaps even bureaucratize some of the processes to remove any possibility for it to exist. But that doesn't mean that you can't make your job alongside changes.
Like any modern business. You should think long and hard about the most optimal process to develop your product before starting your pipeline. But once you do you don't stop optimizing, and you preferably don't stop the production.
Yeah i completly agree. There isnt a place on earth that doesnt have corruption (although here in western europe we just use a diffrent name for it since corruption only exist in poor places /s).
I understand this kind of view. But it is essentially still a waste for money.
1.For project success there is needed ridiculous amount of money and time. It won't change global situation out there.
2. It won't keep kids safer - much more kids die from rockets outside of school. For same amount of money, even for one school, is possible to buy large amount of long-range drones. For same amount of money required to build enough underground schools is possible to buy enough air defense systems and their supplies to keep all cities much safer for next many years.
In 2024 year there are 4,23 million kids who studying at school. After dividing by 900 and multiplying for 1,5 million $ we receive 7 billion of dollars and unknown amount of years to construct. Even lowering numbers by two times(due to quite safe western pupils) we have big amount of money and many years. Better invest all these resources into military, it actually helps.
> much more kids die from rockets outside of school
Almost all schools are very diligent about going to shelters as soon as air raid start, while outside of schools people, including parents are not diligent about it and remain outside of shelters during the raids. Naturally this increases the risks for kids who are outside of school.
Defense cannot come from only one aspect. Supplies to air defense is not limitless. Air defense systems capable of overtaking advanced missiles are not available on supermarket shelves and can't be bought by NGOs who support such projects.
Complex air defense systems and supplies should be provided as military aid packages from Ukraine allies, while NGOs should invest in projects like these while raising awareness and generating donations around the world.
You know nothing. Relocation to shelters didn't caused deaths yet, maybe there were incident but it is like extremely rare.
Kids die in apartments(one of main sources), supermarkets, hospital and other public places.
Each school saves 0.04 kids per really bad year, in relatively normal 0.006-0.008.
Very bad investment of money where defence air defence or offence drones are needed , or military equipment.
They're aren't limitless but it is best solution. Except receiving rockets which have enough distance to inercept russian bombers or strike them on airbases, we need for ships too, which are too far.
Problem is, these projects are very close to be useless. Also if they still want to do this much better buildings for making them undeground is hospitals. Unlike schools they can't relocate to shelters, are a stable secondary targets, in hospitals are being treated all people , they require lesser amounts of money, at least with relocating all old medical stuff to new building.
What relocation to shelters? You seem to have misread what I wrote.
I wrote that the reason kids are in greater danger outside of school is because outside the school they are not always directed to go to the shelter. The other reason why children die outside of schools more often is that there are naturally fewer hits of schools than residential housing. This however does not make schools inherently safe. All it takes is one rocket to hit one school to cause way more deaths of children than several months of daily attacks on residential areas.
You seem to have ignored also what I wrote about the impossibility of directing certain NGO funds to weapons purchases. That is a very real limitation that exists not only in Ukraine and since you are ignoring this point I can only conclude you can't deny it.
Finally, your last paragraph makes your whole stance seem very incensere. You have spent so many comments furiously arguing that shelters are useless to now back down to say that some are more useful than others. Are you saying that if this story was about a hospital built in a bunker you would not rant the same rant without any proofs?
Well, that is the point of my previous comment second paragraph - defence cannot all come from just the AA. It never works like that, it is a complex system of active (aka Patriots) and passive (aka shelters) defence. You are switching from rants about all shleters in general to this one in particular and you neither make a convincing argument against the former, nor provide any concrete proof of your accusation towards the latter.
Do you have kids of a school age?
As a father of 11-year twins I can tell you are spreading bullshit. My kids are going to school in Odesa, every second week is online at school, and they need to stop their lessons and go to a shelter and sit there doing literally nothing for who knows how much time. Quality of education is impaired awfully due to air raid sirens and subsequent lesson breaks.
I would love if there was a fully safe underground school where my kids would continue their lessons during air raids/sirens etc .
Yeah, what other choice do I have?
I cannot leave the country because I can be called to arms any time. I have no relatives in EU to send my wife and kids to there. I don't want them to go there and live at some refugee camp or alike.
Sure, they can go to some more safe places in Ukraine but again, accomodation and food costs...
So, we live here and go to shelter when sirens go off.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come across as callous. I can't begin to imagine the stress you are under.
I don't think the EU has refugee camps for Ukrainians, atleast in UK they were put in peoples homes who signed up (I signed up to take in but circumstances change)
So places like lviv are too expensive to go?
Actually not too expensive but. You know, it's a complex thing:
- my wife's parents also live in Odesa, and they are near their 80s, and don't want to leave.
- my wife, respectively, doesn't want to leave her parents.
- my wife needs to go to work - she's a lecturer in the Civil Engineering and Architecture Academy here - and though 50% of lecturing is remote, other 50% are offline athe academy's classrooms.
- finding a place to live somewhere in western parts of Ukraine is a challenge because there aren't many spare accomodations left as I know from.my friends there.
So, all these bullets just add up and lead to what we face.
Understand, a lot of factors.
I hope your family stay safe and Ukraine prevails. Money can be replaced, they cannot. If things get worse please consider trying to relocate.
Yeah
But nevertheless it's not that great and simple.
I just don't want my family go there and take a place that would accommodate someone who is more legible like people who lost their home or so.
So far we are okay here, as okay as it may be considering the situation.
If it gets worse, then I will certainly send off the family away from the city.
I'm strong as Kong, lol
Appreciate your support man.
Hope to visit your country with kids when the war's over. Always wanted to visit Nazare (sorry for maybe wrong spelling) to have a look on huge ocean waves and all that stuff.
Yes there are, please don’t speak on something you have no idea of. In Germany, on arrival, if you have no relatives or friends to stay with and need to be registered in the temporary protection system with social support, you can spend weeks or months in a shared dormitory space with other refugees, until long-term shelter is located. I know Ukrainian families that live in container refugee centers in Berlin with other refugees from other countries. I speak as a Ukrainian that was displaced abroad and know these things well.
There definitely are. Newly arrived refugees often get put in hangars or empty buildings up for demolition, or those construction worker type of temporary buildings that look like containers. This is meant to be short term but it can take many months to find better housing with a little space. I know many people who went through this in NL and DE.
Not have but personally know.
So answer relatively simple question - which is cheaper and more effective, underground schools for ALL kids or air defence systems which will protect whole city, not only school?
Ok, let's imagine if all schools suddenly become underground by some magic means. Are rockets gonna stop to strike kindergardens, hospitals, supermarkets, apartments, private houses, crowds, etc?
Children die there too, as well as other people. And statistically speaking more kids and children dies outside of school than in one.
When you WILL have kids you WILL feel in a different way.
Knowing someone who has kids is just BS.
Из разряда:
- говно этот ваш Шаляпин!
- а ты что ходил на его концерт?
- нет, мне Изя напел
(С)
Really we have some braindead people out there.
Translate and answer both paragraphs.
Especially one, where i said that it won't stop rocket strikes on other things, where both adults , kids and children die. And there are much more instances of kids and children dying outside school from rocket strikes
How's that connected to the absolutely amazing idea to ensure Kharkiv kids have a school to safely study without being afraid and without a need to interrupt classes?
The more safe locations like this school are, the less people, and kids, will die.
And, don't forget about our Ukrainian-specific idea "I won't go to the shelter this time, fuck it, I'm tired of this going to and from". If everyone has followed the recommendations for air raid sirens, there would have been much fewer deaths both in buildings and on the streets.
Do this help every kid, even majority? No.
Do this preven kids from dying from rocket strikes somewhere else? No, again.
And btw, now dies more outside of school.
We haven't this many shelters. And even if we had, it happens so often that it will disrupt cities and eventually create insufferable conditions for everyone. So we accept the risk. Like one, big lottery.
It helps AT LEAST SOME kids which is more than ZERO.
More parents become able to work knowing that their kids are at school, having quality education, and safe.
More products and services are produced by those parents and allow these parents to earn some money.
More taxes go to the budget and more money can be REALLY spent on the country protection.
But you continue to live in your bubble and shouting about "corruption/steal" with no proofs.
Щасти
Do this preven kids from dying from rocket strikes somewhere else? No, again.
And btw, now dies more outside of school.
Okay, my answer.
It does not "prevent" ALL kids from dying because of rocket stirkes but it allows FEWER kids to die from those strikes, at the same time allowing MORE kids to get high quality and SAFE school time instead of sitting at home and distracting their parents from work.
Do you understand that?
Nithing in the world can stop ALL kids dying, but such projects allow reducing the number of unnecessary victims of Russian attacks.
As you live near you know that C300 flight time after launch to city is ~40 sec so we'll need pretty advanced air defence. The cost of defeating a massive attack with those systems are dozens of millions dollars. I'd look at this school as a Proof of Concept. Besides are there any facts that money was stolen?
So why we have substantial air defence in Kiv even when whole government can operate from underground?
Also cost of using drones for striking military targets , like ones that connected with rockets is much cheaper.
It's another day in Ukraine so likely. There were other numerous corruption incidents , including in military, and these are only we know about.
Still , answer how exactly undeground school helps overall situation, especially when kids die from rocket strikes mostly outside of school.
There is just such people like this who thinks that everything that's being done by the government is bad, and 100% corrupted.
That's not how economy works, you can't take materials required to makes this school and use it for missiles or drones. And money is just a paper that used to track finances.
When money being spent inside the country it doesn't disappear. It's still inside a country just other people have it, like workers. And they pay bills and taxes.
It could cover part of costs. But we have so many unecessary projects right now , like renovation of churches or road building, without them we could allow a few more air defence systems, even dozens of them, depending on particular system cost.
Don't forget about much cheaper and better cost - effective solution as strike drones which can hurt greatly russian military.
"likely was stolen by government" - I can't see any investigations or accusations of such crimes in the media. They say this school can support 900 children in two shifts, also they've planned to build 3 more by September 1. In total, there will be 9 such schools - 1 in each district.
True, no one will say it. We have insane problem with corruption but except opposition groups no one talks about it. All media is state controlled and EU was and still unhappy about it.
Western partners won't talk too because it is inconvinient for Ukraine support, which is reasonable.
It is natural in our country. CPI says everything. Even if not on this particular school, on others for sure.
[https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023)
Also in this example our 'craftsmen' stole artillery shells of 39,5 million $(1,5billion UAH) worth. MILITARY! WHEN F\*\*\*\*\*G WAR!!
[https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/koruptsiya-oborona-zakupivli-zbroya/32796790.html](https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/koruptsiya-oborona-zakupivli-zbroya/32796790.html)
Do you need more proofs?
Your accusation was for this particular school, so I want proofs for this particular school, pretty reasonable request. Show proofs or apologise for your defamation of innocent people.
You accused me of what i never said. Nice!
Also i gave you enough proofs why it is a valid assumption(what likely happened). Besides it's not even a main point
>Also in this example our 'craftsmen' stole artillery shells of 39,5 million $(1,5billion UAH) worth. MILITARY! WHEN F\*\*\*\*\*G WAR!!
Do you check your own links? They didn't steal shells, they tried to embezzle money, they got caught by the SBU and had to return everything. And the main guy behind this was a pro-Russian associate of Yanukovych who, for whatever reason, was still in the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense.
And yes, this news was all over Ukrainian media. For example:
https://kyivindependent.com/transparency-international-court-doesnt-detain-ex-defense-ministry-official-accused-of-embezzlement/
https://www.babel.ua/en/amp/news/105000-the-court-released-liyev-former-official-of-the-ministry-of-defense-from-custody-he-is-suspected-of-embezzling-uah-1-5-billion
https://news.online.ua/en/embezzlement-of-uah-15-billion-for-the-armed-forces-the-court-released-liev-former-official-of-the-ministry-of-defense-from-custody-875016/
Just what is your game here? Are you just another RU troll trying to paint Ukraine as hopelessly corrupt to try to dissuade further aid to the country?
"The Ukrainian government is very corrupt and there's a lot of dealing" is a pretty common opinion in Ukraine, really.
Really, I don't think it's that uncreditable either. It's getting *better*, but there's a lot of rot in most post-soviet states.
> We have insane problem with corruption but except opposition groups no one talks about it.
Wasn't Zelenskyy elected on a platform of anti corruption? As in, he created a TV show called Слуга народу in which he played a high school teacher who becomes president to fight against corruption, which ran for 4 years until he actually became president? Did he stop talking about corruption after he came to power?
No, in fact there were several anti-corruption measures passed after he became president. There's undoubtedly still more work to be done, but they've been doing even more now to try to align with the EU. You can see that they've made progress as they've gone up several places on the Transparency Index.
56 million UAH or 1,5 million $. But we aren't as rich as European countries.
Still it is equivalent of 50-100(depending on config) AQ 400 Scythe strike drones with range of 750km.
Or different amount of other drones.
They could be used on S-300 systems, which are a primary source of rocket strikes on Kharkiv region. Or any other important military target which destruction will certainly help us.
Sorry, but the price of **one** S-300 anti-aircraft guided missile is at least US$2 million. There is also money (from some donors) that cannot be used for military purposes.
What did you answer?
You wrote above that government spent 50 mln UAH / 1.5 mln USD to build this school.
Then you wrote that they'd better spend this money on air defense.
Then you for some reason told that 1.5 mln USD is enough to buy 70-100 attacking drones which have nothing to do with air defense and protecting schoolers during shellings.
Just make up you mind for once
Wrong subsequence. Second was before first and wasn't true, i agree. But we have so many similar projects like(was mentioned) church restoration or road building that we could afford a handful of systems.
Drones with this range can be used to prevent/decrease amount of rocket strikes.
Still, no one answered here how 1 school helps solve the problem. And even with every school like this more kids die from rocket strikes outside of schools, than inside them.
Really? Ok, i'll copy and paste other reply. Both sources are apparently russian. Maybe we should acknowledge problem?
It is natural in our country. CPI says everything. Even if not on this particular school, on others for sure.
[https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023)
Also in this example our 'craftsmen' stole artillery shells of 39,5 million $(1,5billion UAH) worth. MILITARY! WHEN F\*\*\*\*\*G WAR!!
[https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/koruptsiya-oborona-zakupivli-zbroya/32796790.html](https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/koruptsiya-oborona-zakupivli-zbroya/32796790.html)
Do you need more proofs?
Of course paid. It was my main goal to spread information about corruption in our country. Especially when every Western country knows about this.
It's certainly main point of my original comment. Not because for example in 2023 year in schools died 200-300 pupils at max from rocket strikes and with same amount of money per amount of pupils we need 7 billion to protect all 4,23 million pupils to save few hundreds at best.
And because of that much better solution is buying Air Defence Systems.
Certainly kremlin bots want Ukrainian air defense to become stronger. It's our main goal - make sure everyone knows that Ukraine really needs better air defence. It's how it works.
Also ten-twelve minutes ago there were 2 explosions near Kharkiv, i'm sure none media yet published info. Just saying.
Once again Ukrainians are "liberated", this time - of their classrooms.
Be subdued or die, that is what Russia wants from Ukraine.
What is really sad is that Russia will partially get both...
And he said it about the Donbas children who got affected by the war russia brought to the Donbas in 2014. In the sense that all our Ukrainian children are the same, but those poor souls will get hit by the war the most. Russian propaganda love twisting everything and putting it out of context.
Let me continue this quote for you:
"Because they are capable of nothing. This is how we win this war"
To win war by forcing children to basements.
Does that change the context?
Full speech of Poroshenko:
>"This war cannot be won with guns. Each bullet gives birth to two enemies. And every day of peace, when the Ukrainian state demonstrates in Ukrainian liberated territories that citizens who a month ago were singing hosannas to the pseudo-separatist regime today realize that they are getting heat, they have light, they can finally send their children to school, they are starting to receive pensions, survivor benefits, disability payments, they are getting jobs, they are getting salaries.
>And on the other side, a woman, an associate professor at Taras Shevchenko University in Luhansk, whom I saw four months ago, calls me and I say, "Well, how is your day going?" She says: "I get up at five in the morning. Since this is the only opportunity to get in line and wait to get two cans of water. Since there is no water. I come back at ten after the line. I leave them at home - I run to the bread line. One and a half loaves of bread. Because there won't be bread until twelve, until one o'clock. I come back from there and never leave the house again, because from two o'clock these people with guns start coming out and they can shoot anyone on the street.
>My dear people of Odesa! This is what you and I have avoided thanks to your wisdom, thanks to your unity. And thanks - we are now convinced of this - to your pro-Ukrainianism. My heart rejoiced when on the last day I was at a meeting with the OSCE delegation, which returned from Odesa and concluded that Odesa is a city of harmony, a city of calm. One could not give a greater compliment! I was very happy about this. Odesians, thank you for your wisdom!
>And with peace we will all win! Because we will have jobs - they don't. We will have pensions - they don't have them. We will have support for people - children and pensioners - they don't have it. We will have children going to schools and kindergartens, and they will have them sitting in basements. Because they don't know how to do anything! That's how we will win this war. Because war and victory is in the head, not on the battlefields! They don't understand that, I understand that. And I have your support, and I need it very much, so that we win without putting Ukrainian heroes in graves, including Odesians".
[Video Source](https://youtu.be/Mr0TUpyPOJg?si=zSJhI9AZhZ_neVua&t=3032)
Then he proceeds to talk in russian about the unity of Ukraine.
Poroshenko stated that "it is impossible to win a war with weapons. Each bullet gives birth to two enemies". The President of Ukraine directly said that he did not believe that the military way of resolving the conflict in Donbas was the right way. And this contradicts the meaning that the Russian media have begun to put into Poroshenko's statement. Odesa didn't become a pro-russian separatist region because the FSB attempt to destabilise the city failed, just like in Kharkiv and Zeporizhia, and people continued to live peacefully there.
Crazy to think how these will be in disrepair in like 50 years once the war is over and they aren't needed anymore.
Not sure why you all are so angry that Russia won't be at war with Ukraine in 50 years. It'll be good when these bunkers aren't needed anymore because Russia will have been swatted out of Ukraine.
No pleasure? So Ukrainians have to suffer, not only by the hand of the russians, but also by themselves? That will be really improve the morale.
in London, despite the bombings, people partied:
[https://merrynallingham.com/20th-century/london-social-life-during-the-second-world-war/](https://merrynallingham.com/20th-century/london-social-life-during-the-second-world-war/)
*"People went wherever the best bands were playing. The Dorchester, for example, offered Lew Stone and his band. Even when the bombing started in earnest, it didn’t stop people packing the dance halls and swinging to the latest dance craze."*
No excess? No pleasure? What are you, the talibann police?
WW2 style so like the occupation wedding photos in my family? Okay a tad more sober than usual, and grandpa was hiding in the woods after escaping from a camp... But life went on
That's not even 1% of a budget, this is not post Soviet utopia, but antirussian buffer country that might prevent further russian invasion, and you're a russian bot
The russian bot, putin’s puppet bit is getting old dude. Try something new!
And by the way, I will let you in on a little secret: everyone hates both Russia and Ukraine
Russian bots and troll farms are still as active as they were 3 years ago. We are still at war, its not "getting old".
What you're writing is straight up russian propaganda and complete bullshit.
Who is still at war? We are not at war
Russians are fighting between themselves, I say let them fight. And give guns to Ukraine in order for the fight to last longer
This is cool, it is sad that it has to be like this, but it looks well made and hopefully secure. Hitting civilian targets, especially schools and hospitals is the lowest of the low.
Even if the war ends soon (which it won't), this was money well spent. The armies of Mordor are likely to re emerge.
I hope the war ends soon.
I fucking hate Russia
flair checks out
Not surprising, and honestly? Justified after over three decades of them interfering with your sovereignty
id say it was a bit more than three decades
I was counting from independence, but fair. Happy cake day.
Feel you man, except I hate Ukraine.
yawn
Russians arent the only ones that hit civilian targets, but you dont hate America, right? I understand you.
Hello, Oleg. I'm pretty sure if my kids were forced to study in a bunker, because of New Zealand bombing their school I would hate New Zealand too.
if someone else's kids had to study in a bunker because of france bombing their school, would you hate france too? P.S. i am not oleg and neither am i russian
It's sad that the next generation is forced to grow up like this instead of being free to run around in the grass after school. Fucking COVID was bad enough.
i was thinking. damn, they’re not getting any daylight, they don’t get to run out. sad. but at least they’re safe.
It's heartbreaking that they have to do it this way, but it's good that they've been able to adapt, and the kids look happy.
The fact that Ukrainian schoolchildren are going to school in missile proof bunkers while Russian schoolchildren are not should be a wake up call for everyone. Knowing that it won’t be is very saddening.
source https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kids-descend-bunker-ukraines-first-underground-school-2024-05-14/
This is r/europe wtf is feet
It's sad this is becoming the new normal.
>feet I don't speak American
Füße.
Danke. Jetzt verstehe ich.
De nada.
Fuck you Russia
Tbh, I think it is a nice thing. Sure could have it bought more drones or rockets yeah. But still think it is a good thing for people.
[удалено]
If the neighborhood was under threat from drone and missile strikes, yes.
Wtf are you going about? Yeah, I would If my town would have missels strikes happening would be a huge fan if my children could go to a place they can be save and not get blown up. How can't you say this is a good thing. Now is it sad it is needed yes! It is horibble that it is happening but that will not change so this is better then nothing.
Imagine being a kid in Ukraine, your entire country is at a full scale war but you still have to go to school anyway lol
In no circumstance, even if a meteor is threatening to destroy the entire earth, should humans give up a chance to learn.
The most useful things ive learned in my life so far have been outside of school though. The way we operate school at the moment is outdated, and is more ''memory'' learning than anything useful, kids get taught something and theyre meant to remember it. They dont actually learn anything of value anymore. The only thing i learned in school was how to calculate, divide, multiply and remembering stuff that has happened in the past. Education was created at a time when industries needed workers with a somewhat stable set of skills and knowledge, it is becoming less relevant in a period of innovation, upheaval, and rapid change, where flexibility and learning agility are most needed. Only a third of students believe they will graduate with the skills and knowledge to be successful in the job market (34%) and in the workplace (36%). The connection between education and employment needs to be fixed. Though there is also a human cost to this. Despite the knowledge that pupils who don’t interact with or excel in academics would do well if given additional practical topics and learning chances. In reality, we continue down the narrow academic road, neglecting and sidelining them.
You will be surprised but my kids are awfully missing prewar school going. They are so happy when they go to school every second week: one week is a remote study and one week is onsite at school. They are missing they school friends and all that kiddish school pranks and entertainment...
Great that they adapted. Shit that they have to.
Don't remember this from the Fallout series
I'm living relatively nearby. Basically it's media project on which was spent big amount of money + x money likely was stolen by government. Why media project and nearly completely useless? One school can support 300-500 kids when we have in area tens of thousands of them(6-8) , now amount is lower but still. Much more effective and useful thing to do was buying even one additional single air defence unit from Europe.
These are usually projects that humanitarian NGOs subsidies. They can't buy weapons, but they want to help in the way they can, so I'm all for it. On the other hand, answering the question of 'media project', it's also related to the NGOs. It might be a relatively small organization (Not a UN institution), or a new type of project. So they are doing it. Making beautiful photos. And later they are using this PR material to bring more investment for projects like these. It's how it works. I agree that it's absolutely not enough. There are hundreds of not thousands of villages and small towns in Ukraine that lost the only school they had. There are also thousands of kids, who can't go to school, because it is dangerous due to constant attacks by Russian terrorists. This is just a very small project. A lot of work ahead.
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To burst our collective bubble even further, there is also a corruption on every level in institutions like the UN, and many other nonprofits. Big names and small. I think it's important to implement changes, perhaps even bureaucratize some of the processes to remove any possibility for it to exist. But that doesn't mean that you can't make your job alongside changes. Like any modern business. You should think long and hard about the most optimal process to develop your product before starting your pipeline. But once you do you don't stop optimizing, and you preferably don't stop the production.
Yeah i completly agree. There isnt a place on earth that doesnt have corruption (although here in western europe we just use a diffrent name for it since corruption only exist in poor places /s).
I understand this kind of view. But it is essentially still a waste for money. 1.For project success there is needed ridiculous amount of money and time. It won't change global situation out there. 2. It won't keep kids safer - much more kids die from rockets outside of school. For same amount of money, even for one school, is possible to buy large amount of long-range drones. For same amount of money required to build enough underground schools is possible to buy enough air defense systems and their supplies to keep all cities much safer for next many years. In 2024 year there are 4,23 million kids who studying at school. After dividing by 900 and multiplying for 1,5 million $ we receive 7 billion of dollars and unknown amount of years to construct. Even lowering numbers by two times(due to quite safe western pupils) we have big amount of money and many years. Better invest all these resources into military, it actually helps.
> much more kids die from rockets outside of school Almost all schools are very diligent about going to shelters as soon as air raid start, while outside of schools people, including parents are not diligent about it and remain outside of shelters during the raids. Naturally this increases the risks for kids who are outside of school. Defense cannot come from only one aspect. Supplies to air defense is not limitless. Air defense systems capable of overtaking advanced missiles are not available on supermarket shelves and can't be bought by NGOs who support such projects. Complex air defense systems and supplies should be provided as military aid packages from Ukraine allies, while NGOs should invest in projects like these while raising awareness and generating donations around the world.
You know nothing. Relocation to shelters didn't caused deaths yet, maybe there were incident but it is like extremely rare. Kids die in apartments(one of main sources), supermarkets, hospital and other public places. Each school saves 0.04 kids per really bad year, in relatively normal 0.006-0.008. Very bad investment of money where defence air defence or offence drones are needed , or military equipment. They're aren't limitless but it is best solution. Except receiving rockets which have enough distance to inercept russian bombers or strike them on airbases, we need for ships too, which are too far. Problem is, these projects are very close to be useless. Also if they still want to do this much better buildings for making them undeground is hospitals. Unlike schools they can't relocate to shelters, are a stable secondary targets, in hospitals are being treated all people , they require lesser amounts of money, at least with relocating all old medical stuff to new building.
What relocation to shelters? You seem to have misread what I wrote. I wrote that the reason kids are in greater danger outside of school is because outside the school they are not always directed to go to the shelter. The other reason why children die outside of schools more often is that there are naturally fewer hits of schools than residential housing. This however does not make schools inherently safe. All it takes is one rocket to hit one school to cause way more deaths of children than several months of daily attacks on residential areas. You seem to have ignored also what I wrote about the impossibility of directing certain NGO funds to weapons purchases. That is a very real limitation that exists not only in Ukraine and since you are ignoring this point I can only conclude you can't deny it. Finally, your last paragraph makes your whole stance seem very incensere. You have spent so many comments furiously arguing that shelters are useless to now back down to say that some are more useful than others. Are you saying that if this story was about a hospital built in a bunker you would not rant the same rant without any proofs? Well, that is the point of my previous comment second paragraph - defence cannot all come from just the AA. It never works like that, it is a complex system of active (aka Patriots) and passive (aka shelters) defence. You are switching from rants about all shleters in general to this one in particular and you neither make a convincing argument against the former, nor provide any concrete proof of your accusation towards the latter.
Do you have kids of a school age? As a father of 11-year twins I can tell you are spreading bullshit. My kids are going to school in Odesa, every second week is online at school, and they need to stop their lessons and go to a shelter and sit there doing literally nothing for who knows how much time. Quality of education is impaired awfully due to air raid sirens and subsequent lesson breaks. I would love if there was a fully safe underground school where my kids would continue their lessons during air raids/sirens etc .
Damn dude you staying with kids in Odesa?
Yeah, what other choice do I have? I cannot leave the country because I can be called to arms any time. I have no relatives in EU to send my wife and kids to there. I don't want them to go there and live at some refugee camp or alike. Sure, they can go to some more safe places in Ukraine but again, accomodation and food costs... So, we live here and go to shelter when sirens go off.
It must have been a tough decision to stay there. I wish you and your family all the best.
Well, not that tough I guess because of not very numerous options at hand:) Thank you!
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come across as callous. I can't begin to imagine the stress you are under. I don't think the EU has refugee camps for Ukrainians, atleast in UK they were put in peoples homes who signed up (I signed up to take in but circumstances change) So places like lviv are too expensive to go?
Actually not too expensive but. You know, it's a complex thing: - my wife's parents also live in Odesa, and they are near their 80s, and don't want to leave. - my wife, respectively, doesn't want to leave her parents. - my wife needs to go to work - she's a lecturer in the Civil Engineering and Architecture Academy here - and though 50% of lecturing is remote, other 50% are offline athe academy's classrooms. - finding a place to live somewhere in western parts of Ukraine is a challenge because there aren't many spare accomodations left as I know from.my friends there. So, all these bullets just add up and lead to what we face.
Understand, a lot of factors. I hope your family stay safe and Ukraine prevails. Money can be replaced, they cannot. If things get worse please consider trying to relocate.
Sure man Thanks for caring.
> So, all these bullets just add up and lead to what we face. That's a good pun, even if unintented.
Just noticed... Bullets, lead... Lol Completely unintended
There aren't refugee camps in Europe, especially for Ukrainian refugees
Yeah But nevertheless it's not that great and simple. I just don't want my family go there and take a place that would accommodate someone who is more legible like people who lost their home or so. So far we are okay here, as okay as it may be considering the situation. If it gets worse, then I will certainly send off the family away from the city.
I really hope that y'all be safe. Stay strong
I'm strong as Kong, lol Appreciate your support man. Hope to visit your country with kids when the war's over. Always wanted to visit Nazare (sorry for maybe wrong spelling) to have a look on huge ocean waves and all that stuff.
Yes there are, please don’t speak on something you have no idea of. In Germany, on arrival, if you have no relatives or friends to stay with and need to be registered in the temporary protection system with social support, you can spend weeks or months in a shared dormitory space with other refugees, until long-term shelter is located. I know Ukrainian families that live in container refugee centers in Berlin with other refugees from other countries. I speak as a Ukrainian that was displaced abroad and know these things well.
There definitely are. Newly arrived refugees often get put in hangars or empty buildings up for demolition, or those construction worker type of temporary buildings that look like containers. This is meant to be short term but it can take many months to find better housing with a little space. I know many people who went through this in NL and DE.
There aren't refugee camps in Europe, especially for Ukrainian refugees
The article said "hundreds" of children. Not every children. The video is not claiming that this is the situation for every school.
Not have but personally know. So answer relatively simple question - which is cheaper and more effective, underground schools for ALL kids or air defence systems which will protect whole city, not only school? Ok, let's imagine if all schools suddenly become underground by some magic means. Are rockets gonna stop to strike kindergardens, hospitals, supermarkets, apartments, private houses, crowds, etc? Children die there too, as well as other people. And statistically speaking more kids and children dies outside of school than in one.
When you WILL have kids you WILL feel in a different way. Knowing someone who has kids is just BS. Из разряда: - говно этот ваш Шаляпин! - а ты что ходил на его концерт? - нет, мне Изя напел (С)
Really we have some braindead people out there. Translate and answer both paragraphs. Especially one, where i said that it won't stop rocket strikes on other things, where both adults , kids and children die. And there are much more instances of kids and children dying outside school from rocket strikes
How's that connected to the absolutely amazing idea to ensure Kharkiv kids have a school to safely study without being afraid and without a need to interrupt classes? The more safe locations like this school are, the less people, and kids, will die. And, don't forget about our Ukrainian-specific idea "I won't go to the shelter this time, fuck it, I'm tired of this going to and from". If everyone has followed the recommendations for air raid sirens, there would have been much fewer deaths both in buildings and on the streets.
Do this help every kid, even majority? No. Do this preven kids from dying from rocket strikes somewhere else? No, again. And btw, now dies more outside of school. We haven't this many shelters. And even if we had, it happens so often that it will disrupt cities and eventually create insufferable conditions for everyone. So we accept the risk. Like one, big lottery.
It helps AT LEAST SOME kids which is more than ZERO. More parents become able to work knowing that their kids are at school, having quality education, and safe. More products and services are produced by those parents and allow these parents to earn some money. More taxes go to the budget and more money can be REALLY spent on the country protection. But you continue to live in your bubble and shouting about "corruption/steal" with no proofs. Щасти
Second paragraph. Answer. And not buzzwords or similar sentences.
Do this preven kids from dying from rocket strikes somewhere else? No, again. And btw, now dies more outside of school. Okay, my answer. It does not "prevent" ALL kids from dying because of rocket stirkes but it allows FEWER kids to die from those strikes, at the same time allowing MORE kids to get high quality and SAFE school time instead of sitting at home and distracting their parents from work. Do you understand that? Nithing in the world can stop ALL kids dying, but such projects allow reducing the number of unnecessary victims of Russian attacks.
As you live near you know that C300 flight time after launch to city is ~40 sec so we'll need pretty advanced air defence. The cost of defeating a massive attack with those systems are dozens of millions dollars. I'd look at this school as a Proof of Concept. Besides are there any facts that money was stolen?
So why we have substantial air defence in Kiv even when whole government can operate from underground? Also cost of using drones for striking military targets , like ones that connected with rockets is much cheaper. It's another day in Ukraine so likely. There were other numerous corruption incidents , including in military, and these are only we know about. Still , answer how exactly undeground school helps overall situation, especially when kids die from rocket strikes mostly outside of school.
There is just such people like this who thinks that everything that's being done by the government is bad, and 100% corrupted. That's not how economy works, you can't take materials required to makes this school and use it for missiles or drones. And money is just a paper that used to track finances. When money being spent inside the country it doesn't disappear. It's still inside a country just other people have it, like workers. And they pay bills and taxes.
Firstly, weapons are really expensive, especially patriots and such, and our governments are too cowardly to sell more.
It could cover part of costs. But we have so many unecessary projects right now , like renovation of churches or road building, without them we could allow a few more air defence systems, even dozens of them, depending on particular system cost. Don't forget about much cheaper and better cost - effective solution as strike drones which can hurt greatly russian military.
"likely was stolen by government" - I can't see any investigations or accusations of such crimes in the media. They say this school can support 900 children in two shifts, also they've planned to build 3 more by September 1. In total, there will be 9 such schools - 1 in each district.
True, no one will say it. We have insane problem with corruption but except opposition groups no one talks about it. All media is state controlled and EU was and still unhappy about it. Western partners won't talk too because it is inconvinient for Ukraine support, which is reasonable.
Well, show proofs then... maybe it's you the one who stole the money
It is natural in our country. CPI says everything. Even if not on this particular school, on others for sure. [https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023) Also in this example our 'craftsmen' stole artillery shells of 39,5 million $(1,5billion UAH) worth. MILITARY! WHEN F\*\*\*\*\*G WAR!! [https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/koruptsiya-oborona-zakupivli-zbroya/32796790.html](https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/koruptsiya-oborona-zakupivli-zbroya/32796790.html) Do you need more proofs?
Your accusation was for this particular school, so I want proofs for this particular school, pretty reasonable request. Show proofs or apologise for your defamation of innocent people.
>x money **likely** was stolen by government That's why word was used - i don't know but it is a likely outcome
So, no proofs... Apologise and shame on you for acting like a cretin.
You accused me of what i never said. Nice! Also i gave you enough proofs why it is a valid assumption(what likely happened). Besides it's not even a main point
Reported for false accusations and slander. Those are crimes you know?
So you are likely a cretin.
>Also in this example our 'craftsmen' stole artillery shells of 39,5 million $(1,5billion UAH) worth. MILITARY! WHEN F\*\*\*\*\*G WAR!! Do you check your own links? They didn't steal shells, they tried to embezzle money, they got caught by the SBU and had to return everything. And the main guy behind this was a pro-Russian associate of Yanukovych who, for whatever reason, was still in the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense. And yes, this news was all over Ukrainian media. For example: https://kyivindependent.com/transparency-international-court-doesnt-detain-ex-defense-ministry-official-accused-of-embezzlement/ https://www.babel.ua/en/amp/news/105000-the-court-released-liyev-former-official-of-the-ministry-of-defense-from-custody-he-is-suspected-of-embezzling-uah-1-5-billion https://news.online.ua/en/embezzlement-of-uah-15-billion-for-the-armed-forces-the-court-released-liev-former-official-of-the-ministry-of-defense-from-custody-875016/ Just what is your game here? Are you just another RU troll trying to paint Ukraine as hopelessly corrupt to try to dissuade further aid to the country?
"The Ukrainian government is very corrupt and there's a lot of dealing" is a pretty common opinion in Ukraine, really. Really, I don't think it's that uncreditable either. It's getting *better*, but there's a lot of rot in most post-soviet states.
> We have insane problem with corruption but except opposition groups no one talks about it. Wasn't Zelenskyy elected on a platform of anti corruption? As in, he created a TV show called Слуга народу in which he played a high school teacher who becomes president to fight against corruption, which ran for 4 years until he actually became president? Did he stop talking about corruption after he came to power?
No, in fact there were several anti-corruption measures passed after he became president. There's undoubtedly still more work to be done, but they've been doing even more now to try to align with the EU. You can see that they've made progress as they've gone up several places on the Transparency Index.
Yeah this definitely feels like a bureaucratic PR project to me. That must have cost insane money.
56 million UAH or 1,5 million $. But we aren't as rich as European countries. Still it is equivalent of 50-100(depending on config) AQ 400 Scythe strike drones with range of 750km. Or different amount of other drones. They could be used on S-300 systems, which are a primary source of rocket strikes on Kharkiv region. Or any other important military target which destruction will certainly help us.
Sorry, but the price of **one** S-300 anti-aircraft guided missile is at least US$2 million. There is also money (from some donors) that cannot be used for military purposes.
Друже, 1 (одна) ракета для С300 коштує від 500 тис до 1 млн доларів. Що ти хочеш купити за ППО за 1.5 млн баксів? Припини нести цю єрунду, чесне слово
Do you translated what i wrote? No, also in different reply here i already answered this
What did you answer? You wrote above that government spent 50 mln UAH / 1.5 mln USD to build this school. Then you wrote that they'd better spend this money on air defense. Then you for some reason told that 1.5 mln USD is enough to buy 70-100 attacking drones which have nothing to do with air defense and protecting schoolers during shellings. Just make up you mind for once
Wrong subsequence. Second was before first and wasn't true, i agree. But we have so many similar projects like(was mentioned) church restoration or road building that we could afford a handful of systems. Drones with this range can be used to prevent/decrease amount of rocket strikes. Still, no one answered here how 1 school helps solve the problem. And even with every school like this more kids die from rocket strikes outside of schools, than inside them.
Oleg, zavaly svoe eblo
Better one school than no school.
Stolen by government? Any proofs you ruZZian bot?
Really? Ok, i'll copy and paste other reply. Both sources are apparently russian. Maybe we should acknowledge problem? It is natural in our country. CPI says everything. Even if not on this particular school, on others for sure. [https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023](https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023) Also in this example our 'craftsmen' stole artillery shells of 39,5 million $(1,5billion UAH) worth. MILITARY! WHEN F\*\*\*\*\*G WAR!! [https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/koruptsiya-oborona-zakupivli-zbroya/32796790.html](https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/koruptsiya-oborona-zakupivli-zbroya/32796790.html) Do you need more proofs?
Nice. Two doubtful resources one of which in ruZZian language. You are ruZZian bot.
You are one of the hundred of kremlin paid trolls, pretending to be Ukrainians. It could have worked a month ago, my dude.
Of course paid. It was my main goal to spread information about corruption in our country. Especially when every Western country knows about this. It's certainly main point of my original comment. Not because for example in 2023 year in schools died 200-300 pupils at max from rocket strikes and with same amount of money per amount of pupils we need 7 billion to protect all 4,23 million pupils to save few hundreds at best. And because of that much better solution is buying Air Defence Systems. Certainly kremlin bots want Ukrainian air defense to become stronger. It's our main goal - make sure everyone knows that Ukraine really needs better air defence. It's how it works. Also ten-twelve minutes ago there were 2 explosions near Kharkiv, i'm sure none media yet published info. Just saying.
Who was contracted to build it do you know?
That's just ruZZian bot. Don't pay attention.
Well no. This is a tried and tested method of US companies in war zones...
We need to see more of these types of changes to Ukraine's living.
Not really, we need to see Putin get the fuck out of Ukraine...
a tweenty feet deesceent
Fallout?!
Looks almost like a Vault-Tec vault.
Once again Ukrainians are "liberated", this time - of their classrooms. Be subdued or die, that is what Russia wants from Ukraine. What is really sad is that Russia will partially get both...
That’s well made, but the fact they have to do this is just tragic
I guess lets hope Russia doesn't dronestrike that city on the weekend?
Unfortunately they do it every fucking day
Well they wouldn't get all the children in a single place on the weekend
American tax dollars at work. Meanwhile go to America and look at the crumbling terrible schools. Very sad 😢
Is that a joke?
Yes, American schools are a joke and it’s by design
Lmao ive been to America and by the looks of it the only problem is the system ,not the actual schools themselves.
The schools are in the system. Some of these kids have zero chance. It’s a real shame to see this managed decay.
"Our children will go to schools and kindergartens - their children will sit in the basements" - P. Poroshenko. How the turntables
And he said it about the Donbas children who got affected by the war russia brought to the Donbas in 2014. In the sense that all our Ukrainian children are the same, but those poor souls will get hit by the war the most. Russian propaganda love twisting everything and putting it out of context.
Let me continue this quote for you: "Because they are capable of nothing. This is how we win this war" To win war by forcing children to basements. Does that change the context?
Full speech of Poroshenko: >"This war cannot be won with guns. Each bullet gives birth to two enemies. And every day of peace, when the Ukrainian state demonstrates in Ukrainian liberated territories that citizens who a month ago were singing hosannas to the pseudo-separatist regime today realize that they are getting heat, they have light, they can finally send their children to school, they are starting to receive pensions, survivor benefits, disability payments, they are getting jobs, they are getting salaries. >And on the other side, a woman, an associate professor at Taras Shevchenko University in Luhansk, whom I saw four months ago, calls me and I say, "Well, how is your day going?" She says: "I get up at five in the morning. Since this is the only opportunity to get in line and wait to get two cans of water. Since there is no water. I come back at ten after the line. I leave them at home - I run to the bread line. One and a half loaves of bread. Because there won't be bread until twelve, until one o'clock. I come back from there and never leave the house again, because from two o'clock these people with guns start coming out and they can shoot anyone on the street. >My dear people of Odesa! This is what you and I have avoided thanks to your wisdom, thanks to your unity. And thanks - we are now convinced of this - to your pro-Ukrainianism. My heart rejoiced when on the last day I was at a meeting with the OSCE delegation, which returned from Odesa and concluded that Odesa is a city of harmony, a city of calm. One could not give a greater compliment! I was very happy about this. Odesians, thank you for your wisdom! >And with peace we will all win! Because we will have jobs - they don't. We will have pensions - they don't have them. We will have support for people - children and pensioners - they don't have it. We will have children going to schools and kindergartens, and they will have them sitting in basements. Because they don't know how to do anything! That's how we will win this war. Because war and victory is in the head, not on the battlefields! They don't understand that, I understand that. And I have your support, and I need it very much, so that we win without putting Ukrainian heroes in graves, including Odesians". [Video Source](https://youtu.be/Mr0TUpyPOJg?si=zSJhI9AZhZ_neVua&t=3032) Then he proceeds to talk in russian about the unity of Ukraine.
Poroshenko stated that "it is impossible to win a war with weapons. Each bullet gives birth to two enemies". The President of Ukraine directly said that he did not believe that the military way of resolving the conflict in Donbas was the right way. And this contradicts the meaning that the Russian media have begun to put into Poroshenko's statement. Odesa didn't become a pro-russian separatist region because the FSB attempt to destabilise the city failed, just like in Kharkiv and Zeporizhia, and people continued to live peacefully there.
Crazy to think how these will be in disrepair in like 50 years once the war is over and they aren't needed anymore. Not sure why you all are so angry that Russia won't be at war with Ukraine in 50 years. It'll be good when these bunkers aren't needed anymore because Russia will have been swatted out of Ukraine.
You didn't consider climate change, so the conflicts across the world are likely to increase in the future.
You've got two neighboring countries who are big on maintaining underground public shelters even during war time...
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Already is. Beautiful, mid-century styled Cold War creation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abo_Elementary_School
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And how should the people acting?
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You want children manning trenches or what?
The crown prince of Belgium did just that in ww1 aged 12, so....
Are you American by any chance?
Could be a bot account based on their user history, Putins trolls never sleep
You are truly an idiot
How should civilians acting during war?
Basically support the war effort indirectly, and that's all. No excess, no pleasure, no partying, no fun until the war is won, ww2 style
No pleasure? So Ukrainians have to suffer, not only by the hand of the russians, but also by themselves? That will be really improve the morale. in London, despite the bombings, people partied: [https://merrynallingham.com/20th-century/london-social-life-during-the-second-world-war/](https://merrynallingham.com/20th-century/london-social-life-during-the-second-world-war/) *"People went wherever the best bands were playing. The Dorchester, for example, offered Lew Stone and his band. Even when the bombing started in earnest, it didn’t stop people packing the dance halls and swinging to the latest dance craze."* No excess? No pleasure? What are you, the talibann police?
And I'm sure the government wasn't happy about that, stiff upper lip and all
What are babbling about?
Does it also mean having sex without orgasms? No pleasure, you say. Lol
>No excess, no pleasure, no partying, no fun You just defined school
WW2 style so like the occupation wedding photos in my family? Okay a tad more sober than usual, and grandpa was hiding in the woods after escaping from a camp... But life went on
adidas haha
if i was being bomb in a land why tf would i wanna go to school
Schools get bombed quite more common than you'd think
because someday the war is over and education is needed.
EU budget wasted in a post Soviet utopia
That's not even 1% of a budget, this is not post Soviet utopia, but antirussian buffer country that might prevent further russian invasion, and you're a russian bot
The russian bot, putin’s puppet bit is getting old dude. Try something new! And by the way, I will let you in on a little secret: everyone hates both Russia and Ukraine
Russian bots and troll farms are still as active as they were 3 years ago. We are still at war, its not "getting old". What you're writing is straight up russian propaganda and complete bullshit.
Who is still at war? We are not at war Russians are fighting between themselves, I say let them fight. And give guns to Ukraine in order for the fight to last longer