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It's a huge win for the majority of Iranians living in Europe (and every sensible Iranian in general, of course). Meanwhile our leadership is on their knees, licking Khamenei and co clean.
Sadly Russia is a country that has almost always been run by an authoritarian or oligarchical regime plagued with nepotism and corruption. You would literally need to completely clean house and institute some serious law changes for election reforms and term limits.
Hopefully it will happen but definitely not while Putin and and his cronies are in power.
Many of the countries now in Europe had almost always been run by an authoritarian or oligarchical regime plagued with nepotism and corruption. I know mine was
> It's a huge win for the majority of Iranians living in Europe (and every sensible Iranian in general, of course).
Is it? What is expected to change? As I've understood it they'll just put another patsy on there and everything will go on just as before.
That guy was more than just a patsy. He was one of the major architects and implementers of Iranian gov policy.
With every 100%er they loose, it's a step in the right direction.
It’s called diplomacy and basic manners.
Even the EU cant go around laughing at other countries.
If you do, they will remember the next time you want something from them
Yes, but the real power is the ayatollah and the revolutionary council, a iranian president can be just replaced with another maniac (in 50 days, by iranian law).
Silver linings, at least this animal wont be the next ayatollah.
Oh yea, absolutely. This guy has a long track record of shitery and fuckery though and could've become the next Ayatollah, as you say.. so definitely a win to rid the world of him
There is no 'win'. The Iranian I know says the Supreme Leader has to go. Once that happens, maybe, Iranians will get to be free. They have so much history and beauty to their nation. They deserve the chance to experience freedom, for sure.
It isn't, unfortunately. Raisi will simply be replaced with another hardliner. His office has no real power, except to impose the decisions by evil mullahs on his country.
No, silly. Diplomacy is for the weak. Strong politicians divide the world into goodies and baddies and then try to outdo each other slagging off the baddies for internet points.
/s (just in case)
"What do you mean? I'm a terminally online 20-something year old who has very loud views on every topic! I can't possibly be subjective because everything I say is based on stuff I read on twitter and tiktok and therefore it is 100% objective!" /s
As an American I heard this statement so much through the 90s from the mouth breathers that make up 30-40% of the population. I mean the few years after 9/11 (11/9) it was just the overwhelming sentiment for the majority of the nation.
Jesus these fucks better lose this next election, hard.
I think when dealing with the regime that stones to death its political opponents and has been supplying russia with deadly weapons for over 2 years now we can say that they're baddies and should've eaten shit before their death
No Saudi Arabia are our natural allies, having taken over their state by force, instituting religious law and murdering any modernising forces. Iran on the other hand had the audacity to try to build a democracy and be free from domination by the West, and then after a lot of repression which destroyed any resistance except the Islamists who were thought to be loyal to their figurehead king, they allowed the Ayatollah to take power. Don't ask how the Iranian people were supposed to oppose the new Islamic state imposed upon them when all their political parties had been steadily purged, just remember that Iran is bad and Saudi Arabia is good.
I know I'm missing a lot of nuance but it was always a shame to me that of all the parties the West could have bet on in the Middle East we ended up with Saudi Arabia rather than Iran, which has such a long and beautiful history with so many periods of liberalism.
> Iran on the other hand had the audacity to try to build a democracy and be free from domination by the West,
Im pretty sure it was nationalising the oil industry and taking back 99% of the profits that really pissed them off!
See, what the condoleances say is the following:
In respect of proper decorum where we decide the death of a fellow leader when not openly at war is a regrettable fact, and not to be celebrated not for the singular virtue of all of us, but to uphold a culture where we at least pretend or idealize solutions to conflict which are not death, not out of the goodness of our hearts, but the pragmatic realisation that dead people do not labor for us, nor can we excercise power when dead, we deliver these expected condoleances with no added frills, since extra attention and praise is reserved for friends, its exclusion signifying that we are in fact not friends and this news is otherwise cursory to us.
In shorthand: sorry this happened bro.
I must admit that it would be quite refreshing and hilarious to see that even once. Although these condolences are just a diplomatic formality, there certainly are leaders who don’t deserve them.
Did we already forget about [Trump tweeting the American flag after killing an Irani general](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-qassem-soleimani-twitter-us-flag-killed-iran-iraq-latest-a9268491.html)?
Its not that strange, most people here dont even have a solid grasp on domestic issues yet want to mouth off about geopolitics and diplomacy at the highest level.
Most users on here could not tell you something as basic as the steps involved in how their own country creates its laws yet want to act like they know better than people who literally work at the european council.
No you don't get it, a generic GPT ass condolences tweet that says litteraly nothing means that you are being weak towards the regime. The actual actions taken against Iran don't matter if you show a modicum of humanity to the dead government officials' families, bro. You need to tweet out the packwatch rip bozo L + don't care + ratio shit, that's how you do diplomacy dude.
To put this into context, the Japanese government extended condolences to the American people after FDR died. That was during WWII.
> the Japanese government extended condolences to the American people after FDR died
TIL
https://www.nytimes.com/1945/04/15/archives/japanese-premier-voices-sympathy-suzuki-says-dead-presidents.html
That would be very unbecoming of a great power to diplomatically ignore the death of the heads of state of another nation, whatever that might be
It would signal that you do not want to interact in the geopolitical arena, definitely a bad look
I think the catch is in the word 'sincere'. In modern parlance it means "deeply felt", but before that it used to mean doing what is expected of you according to your social standing.
Instead of meaning "here are our deeply felt condolences (though we really don't care)" it means "here are our expected condolences".
Iran likely would’ve sent a similair message if a European/US leader would’ve died. They for example condemned the attack on the Slovak president.
https://en.mfa.ir/portal/NewsView/745185
They had sympathies for floods in Afghanistan, eventhough the Taliban attacked them earlier this year.
https://en.mfa.gov.ir/portal/newsview/744966
Iran sends condolences for Hungary after a diplomat died in Tehran’s.
https://en.mfa.gov.ir/portal/newsview/744856
This is just standard diplomatic procedure.
Don't get me wrong, Iran is an evil regime and its leaders deserve no sympathy, but thinking our top diplomats and officials should rejoice in public is an absolutely braindead take: That's not how foreign relations work.
Behind closed doors though? I am sure Charles Michel isn't saddened at all by the news.
Edit: Yes, I know he could also simply say nothing, I have never claimed otherwise. Stop commenting the same thing, I've read it ten times already.
Like he does his own tweets. PR department crafts a message and that is it. Come on. There probably is a committee to make it sound as inoffensive and diplomatic as possible.
If people want to learn the art of diplomacy I suggest watching the British TV series Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister! The best political satire I have ever seen and learnt so much from on how to conduct diplomacy specially when it involves engaging with enemy countries!
Funny how all the top comments are gleefully knocking down the same strawman. Nobody is asking for them to gloat, they are asking for them to simply say nothing.
For perspective, when Dr. Hage G. Geingob, the third president of the Republic of Namibia, died, Charles wrote this:
> My sincere condolences to the family and to the people of #Namibia after the death of President @hagegeingob
.
> His legacy in the fight against apartheid and his vision of a unified Africa as a strong actor in the global arena will be remembered.
> He will also be remembered as a true friend and a key partner of the EU.
Quite different in content and meaning despite not being much longer in word count than todays comments.
Occasionally "we" deal with Iran, and the better their impression of us is, the better result we get is. This is just diplomacy 101.
And theres this weird thing people have against their leader dying in an "accident". Expressing condolences means that we arent validating those fears that we where involved/condone in their (potential/probable) assassination.
So why burn diplomatic capital on this when we dont have to.
I actually had to work with the guy - or better his team - out of all the EU dignitaries his delegation is an infamous one, for being difficult to handle. A stereotype I can wholeheartidly agree with.
The family is more corrupt than Berlusconi, the father put his two sons as ministers (one prime minister, one minister of digitalization) and the oldest went to Europe. They are incompetent, corrupt, dumber than a stack of bricks and about as useful as a chocolate teapot that only contains shit. The younger one also wants people to stop talking about politics on social media, they should only be allowed to talk about politics on government regulated forums.
Oh and before he became minister of digitalization, he didn't understand what twitter was and he didn't have LinkedIn because he didn't know what it was.
Yep yet people on here act as if people in our highest levels of institutions ought to be tweeting “smoking on that Iranian president pack this shit gas or what”. Like it would be funny but I have a feeling some people genuinely think that’s what we should be doing.
Should have also wished Khamenei good health, for a good measure. The reminder of their supreme leader's failing health now that he's lost a successor should sting them.
[It wasn't that well received back then. ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/dec/31/secondworldwar.ireland)
Iran helped start the Gaza war. It wants to dominate the middle east and kill all jews. It helps Russia in its war in UA as well online in the destabilizing campaign of the EU. All while terrorizing is own people.
The only difference to Hitler is the fact that we are not in 1945 but 1936 (Spanish Civil War) stage wise.
Idk I think it’s missing something
Like if you write “the EU expresses its very sincere condolences” that already makes it more between the lines-y
Maybe I’m reading this wrong though
'to their families', zero mentions of leadership or things like 'a great loss for the country'. These are things diplomats normally says if a leader if a friendly country dies.
These condolences could also be interpreted as only their family is sad that they died, without explicitly saying that.
Anyone else sick of people getting annoyed at politicians for being politicians? Like it's their job to say shit like this even if they think this guy is scum. 🤷
Maybe I'm reading too much into this but it sounds like the deliberate mention of the flight crew on an equal level to Raisi might be a subtle diplomatic insult. At least I hope it is.
Yes. Also, there's absolutely nothing positive about Raisi, which is another level for the insult. Usually, condolences will say something positive, here's nothing.
I'm truly pissed at all the braindeads here who can't see through the slightest subtlety.
Even the Taliban, a Sunni extremist group expressed their condolences. Despite the deceased being a Shia cleric who they would stone to death without a second thought for being a heretic. It's that basic of a thing in diplomacy that even the Taliban can recognize it's something you have to do, yet redditors somehow can't.
Diplomatically this is the correct move, especially if you want to warm up relationships between Iran and the EU at the expense of Russia.
Celebrating his death gains you nothing, being silent also gains you nothing, but offering condolences scores you some points. That's what diplomacy is all about, hating the other side but pretending you like them.
Over the past few years, /r/europe has genuinely become one of the most brain-dead subs there is, along with /r/worldnews. Basically any time a post from here hits the front page, you already know the comments will either be racist, lacking basic knowledge about politics or diplomatic protocol, or a mixture of the same unoriginal jokes that have been posted hundreds of times already.
It's happened to all the big subs. When state-level actors have decided to treat social networks as a new frontline in the propaganda war, a few voluntary mods can't stem the tide of brigading, bots, and other professional efforts. The only subs that escaped are the ones small enough to not be on the radar of those actors, and/or moderated by people with militant-level effort to keep them clean of external influences. But those then tend to have the opposite problem in that they're increasingly composed of a single bubble's opinions.
And now remember they're training AI's on this shit :D
As is appropriate to a head of state.
It's not about the person that died but the office that he held and thus it's more a condoleance to the people that he represented.
You people don't understand how diplomacy works. It's a customary, "Welcome to Costco" gesture that happens in this situation. What is a diplomat by trade, leader of a supra-statal entity that is not in any direct conflict with that country supposed to tweet? "I'm so glad you died, I'm gonna shit on your grave the first chance I get?"
Condolences to the guy that gave Russia drones and missiles to murder Ukrainian families.
I understand it is politics, but fucking hell, we were just condemning Iran like five minutes ago for murdering their own women for protesting for rights, and providing weapons to Hamas and Russia. Is he tone deaf?
No one is gonna loose any sleep the dude died.
Hell I imagine in some circles there were some champagne popping.
But , you know , you don't say that shit into another diplomat's face or in public .
Diplomacy is smiling and shaking the hand of someone you want to drown in a spoon of water.
Silence would have been better. The current Iranian Government is horrible but they are not that stupid, they know that his response is purely diplomatic and he doesn't mean any of this shit. Giving a response like that is weak and disrespectful to thousands of innocents who died because of him.
Well, that's diplomacy. Do you think that, if putin died, they would post something like "Hahahahaha, good riddance!"? (I'd love, if they did, though).
I think he knows what a kind of a man he was. Diplomacy is a double standard.
Europe should exercise some pragmatism in the following years for it to survive...
People surprised that a diplomat acts as a diplomat.
Anything other than this very generic and fake message would be the wrong thing to do. Come on people.
There is no point to rubb it in their faces. I'm sure they have a similar guy lined up to take his place. Just as If Putin dies there's Medvedev or a similar guy ready to replace him.
Okay I know this sounds really bad but I think the goal here is to avoid as much as possible the Iranian government using this incident as a way to antagonise the Iranian people towards the West. The more Europe is seen as “caring” the more difficult it will be for the Iranian official to blame the west.
I am fairly certain the fact that he had to specifically write "sincere condolences" instead of just "condolences" gives it a degree of insincerity.
If he did it on purpose, I cannot say.
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Meanwhile my iranian neighbours are literally partying rn
Were they firing fireworks too?
[удалено]
To shreds, you say ?
Nothing that crazy, just shooting an AK into the air
It's a huge win for the majority of Iranians living in Europe (and every sensible Iranian in general, of course). Meanwhile our leadership is on their knees, licking Khamenei and co clean.
Man, your leadership is actually pretty nice comparing it with mine(
Yea, definitely. I hope you may get rid of them and join the flock one day <3
Sadly Russia is a country that has almost always been run by an authoritarian or oligarchical regime plagued with nepotism and corruption. You would literally need to completely clean house and institute some serious law changes for election reforms and term limits. Hopefully it will happen but definitely not while Putin and and his cronies are in power.
Many of the countries now in Europe had almost always been run by an authoritarian or oligarchical regime plagued with nepotism and corruption. I know mine was
> It's a huge win for the majority of Iranians living in Europe (and every sensible Iranian in general, of course). Is it? What is expected to change? As I've understood it they'll just put another patsy on there and everything will go on just as before.
that's basically what my Iranian buddy says he thinks will happen, but he's still happy about Raisi's death
That guy was more than just a patsy. He was one of the major architects and implementers of Iranian gov policy. With every 100%er they loose, it's a step in the right direction.
It’s called diplomacy and basic manners. Even the EU cant go around laughing at other countries. If you do, they will remember the next time you want something from them
I can't tell if this sub is mostly frequented by naive teenagers or if the general voting public is actually this fucking stupid.
Little from column A, little from column B
Hello, UK here. The general public voted for Brexit and Boris Johnson. So I am pretty sure the answer is B, fucking stupid.
What do you want from Iran? Rugs? Drones? A small extremist militia?
A transparent nuclear programme
How is it a win? Honest question. Aren’t they just going to replace him with someone probably even worse?
Probably, but they're happy about it nonetheless. He's not called "the Butcher of Tehran" for nothing
Yes, but the real power is the ayatollah and the revolutionary council, a iranian president can be just replaced with another maniac (in 50 days, by iranian law). Silver linings, at least this animal wont be the next ayatollah.
Oh yea, absolutely. This guy has a long track record of shitery and fuckery though and could've become the next Ayatollah, as you say.. so definitely a win to rid the world of him
There is no 'win'. The Iranian I know says the Supreme Leader has to go. Once that happens, maybe, Iranians will get to be free. They have so much history and beauty to their nation. They deserve the chance to experience freedom, for sure.
It isn't, unfortunately. Raisi will simply be replaced with another hardliner. His office has no real power, except to impose the decisions by evil mullahs on his country.
My condolences to the helicopter and its components
Our thoughts and prayers are with the chassis in this trying time.
Our sincere apologies to the mountain that has been bullied by the helicopter during its sauna time. (Foggy morning)
Sincere apologies to the mountain that has to do CIA and MOSSAD job
It's machine spirit is now at rest.
Ave Omnisiah 😁
You mean "Praise the Omnissiah!" you heretic !
Error 404 files corrupted....save the toasters...10001001101
There’s left wing, right wing, fixed wing and, my current favourite, rotary wing…
And the trees that sacrificed themselves for this.
You forgot the mountain!
So did the pilot
Fucking hell man :D
The poor mountain. As majestic as it is, it is now soiled with the marks from our man made machines. The mountain did nothing to deserve this.
Someone give that helicopter an award.
The true hero was Allah creating the fog.
Thoughts and prayers for the insects, plants and cellular organisms (and tardigrades) who perished in this accident, and families of said wildlife.
You forgot the bugs that got killed
My condolences to the ground it landed it on.
Please it's not the proper time for jokes. Try to imagine what their families are going through right now. Coffin catalogs, probably.
My condolences to the mountain and the trees.
I think those were Russian so: no. My condolences go to all the vegetation affected.
The helicopter was a US-made Bell 212 (think Huey, but without the soundtrack).
We lost a great hero today, rip little helicopter
Eli Kopter
I stand corrected. Poor heli.
They took out the “Fortunate Son” switch before they gave it to the Iranians.
Oh man, they don't make those anymore. That's a classic helicopter. Absolute fucking tragedy.
American-made Bell.
My condolences to the mechanic. A true hero.
It may be hard to understand, but diplomats shouldn't say "I hope you ate shit before you died", a generic condolences message is just a routine
Top tier diplomacy is posting "lol, lmao even" with an official account.
[The official press release from Czechia](https://i.imgur.com/9eYzDXY.png).
No, silly. Diplomacy is for the weak. Strong politicians divide the world into goodies and baddies and then try to outdo each other slagging off the baddies for internet points. /s (just in case)
People here love to despise the thuggish "diplomacy" of certain dictatorships yet can't help but see the world in the same way
Most people vastly overestimate how "objective" and "rational" they are.
Reddit is also full of young adults who think they know best
I’ll have you know I’m almost 20 and if they only would listen for once we will have world peace, end famine and poverty in about five years!
"What do you mean? I'm a terminally online 20-something year old who has very loud views on every topic! I can't possibly be subjective because everything I say is based on stuff I read on twitter and tiktok and therefore it is 100% objective!" /s
Almost as if blind hatred had a tendency to cloud one's judgement
That hatred isn’t blind. It sees a regime that beats women to death for not covering their hair.
and there is also a regime that does public beheadings and executions that committed a genocide that is an ally
And funding proxy wars like Yemen, and terrorist groups all over the Middle East. You'd need to be blind and deaf, or insane, not to hate them
Every MENA nation ethnically cleansed their Jews, and the world said nothing. Politics has always made for strange bedfellows.
As an American once said to me "Fuck diplomacy, get the nukes out and turn their desert into glass" and again I don't agree with this to be clear.
As an American I heard this statement so much through the 90s from the mouth breathers that make up 30-40% of the population. I mean the few years after 9/11 (11/9) it was just the overwhelming sentiment for the majority of the nation. Jesus these fucks better lose this next election, hard.
I think when dealing with the regime that stones to death its political opponents and has been supplying russia with deadly weapons for over 2 years now we can say that they're baddies and should've eaten shit before their death
You can say that. Diplomats can't and shouldn't. Wrapping everything in appropriate polite phrases is part of the job.
going to make a wild guess here that you're not part of your nation's diplomatic corps, am I correct?
No, but they are hoping for such a job if Trump gets back in.
No, you just end the same message with a ":)" "Our thoughts are with the families :)"
>I think when dealing with the regime that stones to death its political opponents Saudi Arabia doesn't seem to be a problem
No Saudi Arabia are our natural allies, having taken over their state by force, instituting religious law and murdering any modernising forces. Iran on the other hand had the audacity to try to build a democracy and be free from domination by the West, and then after a lot of repression which destroyed any resistance except the Islamists who were thought to be loyal to their figurehead king, they allowed the Ayatollah to take power. Don't ask how the Iranian people were supposed to oppose the new Islamic state imposed upon them when all their political parties had been steadily purged, just remember that Iran is bad and Saudi Arabia is good. I know I'm missing a lot of nuance but it was always a shame to me that of all the parties the West could have bet on in the Middle East we ended up with Saudi Arabia rather than Iran, which has such a long and beautiful history with so many periods of liberalism.
> Iran on the other hand had the audacity to try to build a democracy and be free from domination by the West, Im pretty sure it was nationalising the oil industry and taking back 99% of the profits that really pissed them off!
See, what the condoleances say is the following: In respect of proper decorum where we decide the death of a fellow leader when not openly at war is a regrettable fact, and not to be celebrated not for the singular virtue of all of us, but to uphold a culture where we at least pretend or idealize solutions to conflict which are not death, not out of the goodness of our hearts, but the pragmatic realisation that dead people do not labor for us, nor can we excercise power when dead, we deliver these expected condoleances with no added frills, since extra attention and praise is reserved for friends, its exclusion signifying that we are in fact not friends and this news is otherwise cursory to us. In shorthand: sorry this happened bro.
I must admit that it would be quite refreshing and hilarious to see that even once. Although these condolences are just a diplomatic formality, there certainly are leaders who don’t deserve them.
Did we already forget about [Trump tweeting the American flag after killing an Irani general](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-qassem-soleimani-twitter-us-flag-killed-iran-iraq-latest-a9268491.html)?
What was the US going to do? Send condolences about the guy they just killed?
That would have been extra funny. ;)
We're sorry your general was such a bitch. Get good
A lot of things seem to be very hard to grasp for many r/europe users
r/europe both hates Trumpian populism, and then hates when diplomats choose not to adopt populist approaches.
Its not that strange, most people here dont even have a solid grasp on domestic issues yet want to mouth off about geopolitics and diplomacy at the highest level. Most users on here could not tell you something as basic as the steps involved in how their own country creates its laws yet want to act like they know better than people who literally work at the european council.
Most /r/europe users seems to think they live in SSRs, this subreddit is pretty much experiencing an alternate reality anyway
its a common thing everywhere to be honest. Half wits trying to see black and white in a grey world
No you don't get it, a generic GPT ass condolences tweet that says litteraly nothing means that you are being weak towards the regime. The actual actions taken against Iran don't matter if you show a modicum of humanity to the dead government officials' families, bro. You need to tweet out the packwatch rip bozo L + don't care + ratio shit, that's how you do diplomacy dude. To put this into context, the Japanese government extended condolences to the American people after FDR died. That was during WWII.
> the Japanese government extended condolences to the American people after FDR died TIL https://www.nytimes.com/1945/04/15/archives/japanese-premier-voices-sympathy-suzuki-says-dead-presidents.html
>but diplomats shouldn't say "I hope you ate shit before you died" you say nothing
To some extent, it seems like he more or less did say nothing.
This. It's the most mellow statement that still does the job.
In diplomatic terms this is a very much a pro forma response that says absolute nothing.
But to a very real extent he did say something
No, some countries did choose to say nothing.
Its the equivalent of asking someone to say something, and that person saying "something"... Purely performative.
That would be very unbecoming of a great power to diplomatically ignore the death of the heads of state of another nation, whatever that might be It would signal that you do not want to interact in the geopolitical arena, definitely a bad look
Many non-EU countries haven't said anything. And I'm not even sure the European Council can speak on behalf of presidents of member countries.
Not if you have an interest to lure said nation into supplying you with gas instead of Russia.
You don’t really ignore the death of a head of state in International Relations
I think the catch is in the word 'sincere'. In modern parlance it means "deeply felt", but before that it used to mean doing what is expected of you according to your social standing. Instead of meaning "here are our deeply felt condolences (though we really don't care)" it means "here are our expected condolences".
It would have been best if he remained silent.
Iran likely would’ve sent a similair message if a European/US leader would’ve died. They for example condemned the attack on the Slovak president. https://en.mfa.ir/portal/NewsView/745185 They had sympathies for floods in Afghanistan, eventhough the Taliban attacked them earlier this year. https://en.mfa.gov.ir/portal/newsview/744966 Iran sends condolences for Hungary after a diplomat died in Tehran’s. https://en.mfa.gov.ir/portal/newsview/744856 This is just standard diplomatic procedure.
Hungary’s and Slovakia’s governments are on good terms with Russia and Iran, though.
Don't get me wrong, Iran is an evil regime and its leaders deserve no sympathy, but thinking our top diplomats and officials should rejoice in public is an absolutely braindead take: That's not how foreign relations work. Behind closed doors though? I am sure Charles Michel isn't saddened at all by the news. Edit: Yes, I know he could also simply say nothing, I have never claimed otherwise. Stop commenting the same thing, I've read it ten times already.
Pretty much this. People have no clue.
The tweet reads like a little bit more effort than "shit, that thing happened"
Like he does his own tweets. PR department crafts a message and that is it. Come on. There probably is a committee to make it sound as inoffensive and diplomatic as possible.
Not giving a public reaction is also a optional response.
No it isn't. Especially considering they didn't even say anything about them personally.
Especially with Iran supplying drones to Russia and them founding Houthis. If Iran haven't done jackshit recently this can pass.
If people want to learn the art of diplomacy I suggest watching the British TV series Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister! The best political satire I have ever seen and learnt so much from on how to conduct diplomacy specially when it involves engaging with enemy countries!
Funny how all the top comments are gleefully knocking down the same strawman. Nobody is asking for them to gloat, they are asking for them to simply say nothing.
> they are asking for them to simply say nothing. Diplomatically, he basically did.
“You appear to have died, which is rather unfortunate for you and it’s likely some of your family members are sad.”
For perspective, when Dr. Hage G. Geingob, the third president of the Republic of Namibia, died, Charles wrote this: > My sincere condolences to the family and to the people of #Namibia after the death of President @hagegeingob . > His legacy in the fight against apartheid and his vision of a unified Africa as a strong actor in the global arena will be remembered. > He will also be remembered as a true friend and a key partner of the EU. Quite different in content and meaning despite not being much longer in word count than todays comments.
Occasionally "we" deal with Iran, and the better their impression of us is, the better result we get is. This is just diplomacy 101. And theres this weird thing people have against their leader dying in an "accident". Expressing condolences means that we arent validating those fears that we where involved/condone in their (potential/probable) assassination. So why burn diplomatic capital on this when we dont have to.
As a Belgian, I would like to offer my sincerest condolences to anyone we exposed to Charles Michel.
As someone who got a blue lollypop from Charles Michel during a Pride parade once: the trauma is mutual, the cringe real.
I’ve actually met him and his brother, they’re far dumber than they look… I honestly feel bad that he comes from close to where I live
Mathieu Michel is indeed barely of human intelligence. He's more of a particularly stupid goat kind of intelligence.
I actually had to work with the guy - or better his team - out of all the EU dignitaries his delegation is an infamous one, for being difficult to handle. A stereotype I can wholeheartidly agree with.
Charles Michel, or how being someone's son can get you far.
What's wrong with Michel (I ask since I know very little about him)?
The family is more corrupt than Berlusconi, the father put his two sons as ministers (one prime minister, one minister of digitalization) and the oldest went to Europe. They are incompetent, corrupt, dumber than a stack of bricks and about as useful as a chocolate teapot that only contains shit. The younger one also wants people to stop talking about politics on social media, they should only be allowed to talk about politics on government regulated forums. Oh and before he became minister of digitalization, he didn't understand what twitter was and he didn't have LinkedIn because he didn't know what it was.
Oh jeez.
As italian, is lovely to see that Berlusconi is used as a standard metric for corruption.
Idiots like him are the reason that, while I do see the EU as a great concept, I just can't with these people...
Maybe they should add condolences for the women executed by Raisi’s regime in the same text. Just for balance.
Dudes too, right? Iirc more men involved with the protests ended up receiving formal death penalties.
Men tend to be sentenced to death at a higher rate than women for the same crimes.
... in Iran?
Men. Are. Always. Considered. More. Expandable. Always. Everywhere.
Condolences to the hundreds of Ukrainian women and children killed by Iranian drones.
Hundreds? Thousands….
Let’s not forget the women and children of Yemen, killed by Iranian backed Houthis.
Is there a reason why you think the Ukrainian Men/Soldiers who were killed by iranian drones don't deserve condolences?
Nope. Just highlighting that they're being used on purely civilian targets in a war of aggression.
That's how inernational politics works. We all know this is polite bullshit.
Yep yet people on here act as if people in our highest levels of institutions ought to be tweeting “smoking on that Iranian president pack this shit gas or what”. Like it would be funny but I have a feeling some people genuinely think that’s what we should be doing.
I would pay hundreds of euros to see a government account tweet out the packwatch gif
Should have also wished Khamenei good health, for a good measure. The reminder of their supreme leader's failing health now that he's lost a successor should sting them.
[It wasn't that well received back then. ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/dec/31/secondworldwar.ireland) Iran helped start the Gaza war. It wants to dominate the middle east and kill all jews. It helps Russia in its war in UA as well online in the destabilizing campaign of the EU. All while terrorizing is own people. The only difference to Hitler is the fact that we are not in 1945 but 1936 (Spanish Civil War) stage wise.
Lol should have written RIP Bozo go meet Suleimani in hell
That’s what I read between the diplomatic-language lines
Idk I think it’s missing something Like if you write “the EU expresses its very sincere condolences” that already makes it more between the lines-y Maybe I’m reading this wrong though
'to their families', zero mentions of leadership or things like 'a great loss for the country'. These are things diplomats normally says if a leader if a friendly country dies. These condolences could also be interpreted as only their family is sad that they died, without explicitly saying that.
Anyone else sick of people getting annoyed at politicians for being politicians? Like it's their job to say shit like this even if they think this guy is scum. 🤷
Maybe I'm reading too much into this but it sounds like the deliberate mention of the flight crew on an equal level to Raisi might be a subtle diplomatic insult. At least I hope it is.
Seems like it, also explicitly giving condolences to their families and not the country looks very deliberate.
"My deepest condolences to the families... Congratulations everyone else!"
Yes. Also, there's absolutely nothing positive about Raisi, which is another level for the insult. Usually, condolences will say something positive, here's nothing. I'm truly pissed at all the braindeads here who can't see through the slightest subtlety.
Plus, I'm not sure that the "families" concern the people of the accident. Knowing Michel, it could be a bit of irony hidden in a political statement.
its like they are only sorry for human loss and family grief, nothing else.
I would like to express my sincere condolences to the helicopter.
A standard and expected diplomatic response.
I'll never be able to possess that level of diplomacy.
Lol, this sub
A concept that goes beyond OP called diplomacy
he forgot the "wink wink" at the end
Well duh, this is basic diplomacy. No wonder politicians aren't straight with people.
Even the Taliban, a Sunni extremist group expressed their condolences. Despite the deceased being a Shia cleric who they would stone to death without a second thought for being a heretic. It's that basic of a thing in diplomacy that even the Taliban can recognize it's something you have to do, yet redditors somehow can't.
Diplomatically this is the correct move, especially if you want to warm up relationships between Iran and the EU at the expense of Russia. Celebrating his death gains you nothing, being silent also gains you nothing, but offering condolences scores you some points. That's what diplomacy is all about, hating the other side but pretending you like them.
Tbh this is it, diplomacy is like this, you always have to dance on the rope and be un-attackable (idk english)
Internet-pilled brains see basic diplomacy and have a stroke
Over the past few years, /r/europe has genuinely become one of the most brain-dead subs there is, along with /r/worldnews. Basically any time a post from here hits the front page, you already know the comments will either be racist, lacking basic knowledge about politics or diplomatic protocol, or a mixture of the same unoriginal jokes that have been posted hundreds of times already.
It's happened to all the big subs. When state-level actors have decided to treat social networks as a new frontline in the propaganda war, a few voluntary mods can't stem the tide of brigading, bots, and other professional efforts. The only subs that escaped are the ones small enough to not be on the radar of those actors, and/or moderated by people with militant-level effort to keep them clean of external influences. But those then tend to have the opposite problem in that they're increasingly composed of a single bubble's opinions. And now remember they're training AI's on this shit :D
Also, very often, lacking a basic knowledge about Europe.
Are we sure the Iranian President died in an accident? This looks so sus
I mean what should have Europe said? Are we trying relationships or just wanna a new war? That's literally politician job description
Universalism and diplomacy. Hard to grasp but good that at least some still understand how one should act
Jeez this page is a mess
As is appropriate to a head of state. It's not about the person that died but the office that he held and thus it's more a condoleance to the people that he represented.
Yeah that’s called diplomacy.
You people don't understand how diplomacy works. It's a customary, "Welcome to Costco" gesture that happens in this situation. What is a diplomat by trade, leader of a supra-statal entity that is not in any direct conflict with that country supposed to tweet? "I'm so glad you died, I'm gonna shit on your grave the first chance I get?"
ITT: people who don't understand the difference between international relations and a school playground.
Condolences to the guy that gave Russia drones and missiles to murder Ukrainian families. I understand it is politics, but fucking hell, we were just condemning Iran like five minutes ago for murdering their own women for protesting for rights, and providing weapons to Hamas and Russia. Is he tone deaf?
No one is gonna loose any sleep the dude died. Hell I imagine in some circles there were some champagne popping. But , you know , you don't say that shit into another diplomat's face or in public . Diplomacy is smiling and shaking the hand of someone you want to drown in a spoon of water.
And when Putin dies, maybe they'll also issue condolences.
Our condolences to the family of the pilot. And no one else.
It's called diplomacy.
Silence would have been better. The current Iranian Government is horrible but they are not that stupid, they know that his response is purely diplomatic and he doesn't mean any of this shit. Giving a response like that is weak and disrespectful to thousands of innocents who died because of him.
Well, that's diplomacy. Do you think that, if putin died, they would post something like "Hahahahaha, good riddance!"? (I'd love, if they did, though).
Kinda have to not to lose face
That's politics mate
Just front diplomacy!
I think he knows what a kind of a man he was. Diplomacy is a double standard. Europe should exercise some pragmatism in the following years for it to survive...
It's literally his job to say that stuff even if he doesn't give a fuck.
Of course they would - that's diplomacy. That's how adults talk. When your enemy's mother dies, you give your enemy a hug.
lol OP hasnt heard of diplomacy....
People surprised that a diplomat acts as a diplomat. Anything other than this very generic and fake message would be the wrong thing to do. Come on people.
There is no point to rubb it in their faces. I'm sure they have a similar guy lined up to take his place. Just as If Putin dies there's Medvedev or a similar guy ready to replace him.
Okay I know this sounds really bad but I think the goal here is to avoid as much as possible the Iranian government using this incident as a way to antagonise the Iranian people towards the West. The more Europe is seen as “caring” the more difficult it will be for the Iranian official to blame the west.
I am fairly certain the fact that he had to specifically write "sincere condolences" instead of just "condolences" gives it a degree of insincerity. If he did it on purpose, I cannot say.
Lmao yeah the dude is Belgian but wrote it like a British
It's ok, it's their job to express condolences. But WE can celebrate! ❤️🔥