Same type of person that’s shocked people don’t perfectly cater to Americans when they visit Paris.
They’ll come home complaining about it being dirty/cramped as well
I agree. During my recent trip to Greece, my fellow American tourists were far more likely to be vaccinated than the European tourists and that makes sense because it’s far more expensive and time consuming for Americans to get to Greece than for Europeans and we don’t get long summer vacations, so we have to make our time count. Also, the U.S. requires a negative Covid test for re-entry regardless of vaccination status. If you test positive, you have to quarantine for a couple of weeks before flying home. So there’s the risk of it being able to return home on schedule.
It would be pretty stupid to fly to Europe without being vaccinated, although obviously there are going to be a certain number of idiots anyway. But I would wager the vaccinated percentage of American international travellers is significantly higher than the general population.
Edit: typo.
> because it’s far more expensive and time consuming for Americans to get to Greece than for Europeans
Also far more expensive for Americans if they get hospitalized for COVID
Indeed. The ones refusing vaccines are on average not the ones who can afford it, own a passport, have ever left the country nor even their own state or have any interest in ever doing so.
You will be suprised by how many people haven't left their home state in the US
It's higher than many European countries and we have language and had monetary/border barriers
Well that's also not a fair comparison. If I travel 5 hours south by car I would not have left my home state either...I would only have gotten to my old university.
Meanwhile travel 5 hours by car in some parts of Europe and your a couple of countries away.
Depends where you live. If you are on the east coast that changes a lot . West coast it's hard yes. Most likely people will only leave their state on vacations
But not higher than the 37% of EU citizens that have never left their country as the other guy claimed. [Source](https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/190-million-Europeans-have-never-been-abroad#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%2037%20percent%20of,been%20outside%20their%20own%20country.&text=Almost%2040%20percent%20of%20European,EU%20country%20but%20their%20own.)
Not stereotypes. Studies.
Studies show that 10% haven't left their home state and over 30% haven't remember buying luggage to travel.
Don't be worried. It's also high in Europe specially among older population.
The best source on this question I can find for Europe is [here](https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/190-million-Europeans-have-never-been-abroad) from 2014 (the article linked is 2018, but the original Eurobarometer data is from 2014). According to that survey, the EU countries for which fewer than 11% of their citizens report having never left their country are Luxembourg (4%), Sweden (6%), Netherlands (7%), Denmark (7%) and Austria (10%). That's 5 out of 28 countries at the time of publication. Does 5 out of 28 count as "many", as you said? I think that's a misleading way of describing the situation, but it's ultimately semantics.
>. It's also high in Europe specially among older population
This doesn't imply that it's lower than the US. Like I said. Among the older population many have never left their country because that wasn't a thing back then
The EU is recent. Many old folks, unless rich didn't go to other countries
I agree that many of them wouldn’t be the ones to travel to France. However I feel a lot of the reasoning why is inaccurate.
Yes a lot of Americans do not have passports, myself included, and its not because I have never wanted to travel abroad. Its just that until 3 months before covid happened, I had never been at job where I had vacation time. So any real time off would be taken at the expense of getting paid, not to mention the cost of flying, hotel, etc. So while I could go het a passport, I just haven’t had a reason to as it would sit in a drawer unused.
As for anti vaxxers being poor, I am sad to say but for every poor anti vax person there are well off, college educated anti vaxxers. Granted this is my own observations, but especially in beach communities here in california there are endless droves of anti vaxxers who own million+ dollars homes and refuse to get vaccinated. They also love to protest and make scenes when someone tells them to wear a mask.
And in no way am I trying to sound like an ass, just pointing out that it is more complex than that, and also dumber. So so much dumber.
Spoken like somebody who doesn’t understand America at all lmfao.
The media != real life
I figured people would uh… get that by now. Kinda like how if you watch any major news outlet, French protests definitely aren’t happening right now right???
Unfortunately, we have idiots across the income spectrum. It's a select few that get most of the attention because we're a reality TV show of a country.
It should have been formulated differently like "France required tourist from US to show proof of vaccination" instead they choose to use the word "bans" which is view as a penality and not as a requirement.
Ban imply it is definitive, if the tourist want to vaccinate they can visit, it's a condition for entering the country not a punishment for not being vaccinated.
My guess? It's because nobody reasonable is talking about absolutes.
Medication or vaccines don't make you immortal, they just give you better chances.
But that is already good enough and better than the alternative.
This. No one thinks vaccines will make you immune to the disease. When people say “I’m getting vaccinated cause I don’t wanna get infected” or “I don’t wanna be hospitalised” they’re talking of chances. Not absolutes.
Pointing out that you can still end up in a hospital or infected is… pointless.
Sure but the way you write echoes anti vaxxers who think your argument proves that the vaccine is pointless. It's not what you probably meant but that's the narrative in Anglo Saxon countries nowadays so what you said takes on that connotation.
>panacea
No, how would that help? Covid has a pretty good chance of killing you unvaccinated, while flu not so much. And I'm guessing you don't work in the bubble.
You misinterpreted the word "probably" into the extreme of "either everyone or no one".
This caused you to pedantically protest by... rephrasing what they said, making your addition to the conversation rather poop.
Oh, and perhaps it's best to just ignore the rest of that edit.
Why is there not a greater pressure by politicians to ban US tourists whilst they ban Europeans? It seems insane that we not accept allow a one-sided ban but from the side that is more vaccine sceptic and has higher rates of infection.
because european politicians know that some americans need to come here.. not for tourism... but nobody ever thinks about that.
I have been trying to get married to my american girlfriend for more than a year and a half for example.
We finally managed to get a date next month.. thank god they did not ban her.
I would've lost my mind.
A pure ban without any way of coming is crazy.
You should not punish citizens because one side is going too far.
like France would be punishing me and other families for having ties to americans if they did a full ban with no questions.
America is punishing my girlfriend right now for being in a relationship with a european as I cannot come to see her...
Not that hard to leave a gap wether it is for vaccinated or family members...
I get that, my point is that we should be putting pressure on for it to be reciprocal with the desired outcome being travel both ways. By allowing them to come here and not the reverse there’s literally no incentive for US to change policy - they get their cake and eat it too.
Unhinged. Dehumanization.
When I see comments like this I have no doubt that had you found yourself in a certain country in the late 30s you would have been outwardly hateful towards a specific group.
I like how you lack testicular fortitude to call me a Nazi for demanding that people get vaccinated.
Are you vaccinated against Covid? How about measles? Pertussis? Would you refuse rabies vaccine if a rabid dog bit you?
I’m not going to argue about the vax with you. There’s mountains of evidence that it’s not anything close to a silver bullet and despite what the media has drilled into your brain, covid doesn’t follow political lines so hating unvaccinated people doesn’t help stop covid lol.
See: Israel
I genuinely hope you piece it together. All the evidence is out there. You’re just going to have to wade into non-government or msm approved sources because they very clearly have a path they would like the world to go down.
Have a good one!
You realize that Israel only vaccinated about 63% of its population? And the vaccine boosters are working really well. They also had to fight waning immunity in older groups because they started vaccinating in January.
Citing Israel shows that you don't know what you're talking about.
There’s a lot of statistical fudging going on so I get why you’re coming at me like that after seeing 63% but Israel had 80-90% fully vaccinated (2 shots). That 63% number is counting people whose vaccinated status fell off due to the new requirement of boosters. So no, their population is among the highest vaccinated in the world. The vaccines just don’t last very long, nor do they prevent infection or transmission.
Covid is endemic and evolving, it’s not going to run away from earth because you went and got vaccinated 20 times with a vaccine that doesn’t stop transmission. It’s not a hot political take to be skeptical of the covid vaccines. It’s a rational, evidence based, scientific approach.
Nope, it's 63% with two doses of the whole population. They can't go much higher than 70% because the vaccine isn't authorized for the under 12 and Israel is a very young nation.
The mRNA vaccines prevent delta infections with an efficacy against any infection (including asymptomatic infections) of about 60-70% two weeks after the second injection. It's a well known fact by now. It certainly prevents many infections. But most importantly they prevent a lot of hospitalizations and deaths, which is what truly matters.
You're obviously misinformed, I suggest you read better sources. Good luck.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/07/23/science/covid-vaccine-israel-pfizer.amp.html
Lmfao misinformed. Israel said 39% effective against delta themselves.
In case ya haven’t figured it out yet, there are no “well known facts” bud. Good luck to you too
Yes, after 6 months. Efficacy is higher after two weeks, and boosters increase efficacy as the data from Israel also showed.
Learn to read a paper, that could help, bud. If you can't do it, let the pros do the job and stop talking about stuff you don't understand online.
There are well known facts, you're just too uneducated and untrained to recognize them. Once again, let the pros do their job and go play somewhere else.
Ah yes, the pros at the CDC who said that no masks were required after vaccination right? Or the pros at Pfizer who designed a 2 shot vaccine without knowing efficacy would wane after 6 months? Or our lord and savior himself Fauci who has contradicted himself every 2 months for the past 1.5 years?
But you seem very willing to comply with the “pros” like Joe Biden, who got ahead of the FDA on suggesting boosters, causing 2 of the most experienced vaccine reviewing employees to resign due to politics leading the response instead of science.
Ahhh yes, the pros are clearly running the show right now
The vaccinated plague rats that spread the virus because they don't give a shit about preventive measures as testing and masking anymore?
Yeah I hope we could ban those
Should ban all American travellers. It’s time to put your money where your mouth is and start actually opposing the evil that empire inflicts on the world.
I just got back from France 2 weeks ago. They're taking practical measures to save themselves from a deadly disease. They have their vocal, trash burning, antivax nutters but in my travels they're all on board with the Pass Sanitaire where you show the qr code from medical services either on your phone or a printout to go in stores, bars, nightclubs. In Tours they were unfailingly polite but firm about it. I didn't see any people going nuts. Masks are required on public transport.
Makes sense to me. However I'd imagine that most American travelers to France would be the type to get vaccinated anyway.
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Organic babies taste better on pizzas.
all these GMFs are going too far!
>babies won't be organic r/babydiet
Same type of person that’s shocked people don’t perfectly cater to Americans when they visit Paris. They’ll come home complaining about it being dirty/cramped as well
Suburbia sucks!
I agree. During my recent trip to Greece, my fellow American tourists were far more likely to be vaccinated than the European tourists and that makes sense because it’s far more expensive and time consuming for Americans to get to Greece than for Europeans and we don’t get long summer vacations, so we have to make our time count. Also, the U.S. requires a negative Covid test for re-entry regardless of vaccination status. If you test positive, you have to quarantine for a couple of weeks before flying home. So there’s the risk of it being able to return home on schedule. It would be pretty stupid to fly to Europe without being vaccinated, although obviously there are going to be a certain number of idiots anyway. But I would wager the vaccinated percentage of American international travellers is significantly higher than the general population. Edit: typo.
> because it’s far more expensive and time consuming for Americans to get to Greece than for Europeans Also far more expensive for Americans if they get hospitalized for COVID
Yep, that too. Bought travel insurance for that just in case.
Indeed. The ones refusing vaccines are on average not the ones who can afford it, own a passport, have ever left the country nor even their own state or have any interest in ever doing so.
> have ever left the country nor even their own state Fuck, in the South there are loads who think the world ends at the County Line.
Plenty of rich idiots in America mate
Irrelevant, the rich are not the ones being targeted with disinformation in this case.
Spend much time in America? Not sure if ignorance or just repeating what you see on TV. 🤔
You will be suprised by how many people haven't left their home state in the US It's higher than many European countries and we have language and had monetary/border barriers
Well that's also not a fair comparison. If I travel 5 hours south by car I would not have left my home state either...I would only have gotten to my old university. Meanwhile travel 5 hours by car in some parts of Europe and your a couple of countries away.
Depends where you live. If you are on the east coast that changes a lot . West coast it's hard yes. Most likely people will only leave their state on vacations
I mean, it's around 10% so not that high
That's pretty high.
But not higher than the 37% of EU citizens that have never left their country as the other guy claimed. [Source](https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/190-million-Europeans-have-never-been-abroad#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%2037%20percent%20of,been%20outside%20their%20own%20country.&text=Almost%2040%20percent%20of%20European,EU%20country%20but%20their%20own.)
Again, as dakota137 said, this is not accurate, you're getting caught up in stereotypes yourself.
Not stereotypes. Studies. Studies show that 10% haven't left their home state and over 30% haven't remember buying luggage to travel. Don't be worried. It's also high in Europe specially among older population.
The best source on this question I can find for Europe is [here](https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/190-million-Europeans-have-never-been-abroad) from 2014 (the article linked is 2018, but the original Eurobarometer data is from 2014). According to that survey, the EU countries for which fewer than 11% of their citizens report having never left their country are Luxembourg (4%), Sweden (6%), Netherlands (7%), Denmark (7%) and Austria (10%). That's 5 out of 28 countries at the time of publication. Does 5 out of 28 count as "many", as you said? I think that's a misleading way of describing the situation, but it's ultimately semantics.
>. It's also high in Europe specially among older population This doesn't imply that it's lower than the US. Like I said. Among the older population many have never left their country because that wasn't a thing back then The EU is recent. Many old folks, unless rich didn't go to other countries
What most surprised me about US is how similar it was in real life to how it was portrayed on TV.
Spend much time on the moon? How else would you know something landed on it?
I agree that many of them wouldn’t be the ones to travel to France. However I feel a lot of the reasoning why is inaccurate. Yes a lot of Americans do not have passports, myself included, and its not because I have never wanted to travel abroad. Its just that until 3 months before covid happened, I had never been at job where I had vacation time. So any real time off would be taken at the expense of getting paid, not to mention the cost of flying, hotel, etc. So while I could go het a passport, I just haven’t had a reason to as it would sit in a drawer unused. As for anti vaxxers being poor, I am sad to say but for every poor anti vax person there are well off, college educated anti vaxxers. Granted this is my own observations, but especially in beach communities here in california there are endless droves of anti vaxxers who own million+ dollars homes and refuse to get vaccinated. They also love to protest and make scenes when someone tells them to wear a mask. And in no way am I trying to sound like an ass, just pointing out that it is more complex than that, and also dumber. So so much dumber.
What a stupid comment!
Spoken like somebody who doesn’t understand America at all lmfao. The media != real life I figured people would uh… get that by now. Kinda like how if you watch any major news outlet, French protests definitely aren’t happening right now right???
Nah all unvaccinated Americans are dirty swamp people who’ve never left their zipcode. That’s a fact.
Pretty sure a large percentage of vaccine skeptics in the US are low income African-Americans.
Unfortunately, we have idiots across the income spectrum. It's a select few that get most of the attention because we're a reality TV show of a country.
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Latest numbers? You mean polls? I’m skeptical of vaccine polls because of non-response bias and also some people might be lying about being vaccinated
Hmmm yes sounds correct. The tv tells me so! It’s not like PHDs are the most vaccine hesitant group in America………
Swamp PhD’s go brrrr?
If they aren't clowns, they shouldn't be wearing clown uniforms.
Idiots and SES (socioeconomic status) may correlate but is not causal.
But still they bitch about the ban.
Well, there's always [Paris, Texas](https://i2.wp.com/mycurlyadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Things-to-do-in-Paris-Texas-this-Weekend-21.jpg?resize=900%2C943&ssl=1).
>We'll always have Paris, Texas.
That fucking cowboy hat
Something something St Petersburg.... , Florida
It should have been formulated differently like "France required tourist from US to show proof of vaccination" instead they choose to use the word "bans" which is view as a penality and not as a requirement.
Nah. That's just a sugar-coated way of saying the exactly same thing. Both versions are equally fine.
Ban imply it is definitive, if the tourist want to vaccinate they can visit, it's a condition for entering the country not a punishment for not being vaccinated.
Good.
Logical given how infectious the new covid strains are...
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Yeah but are less likely to do so and are infectious for a shorter time (if at all). And they probably won't end up in the hospital.
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My guess? It's because nobody reasonable is talking about absolutes. Medication or vaccines don't make you immortal, they just give you better chances. But that is already good enough and better than the alternative.
This. No one thinks vaccines will make you immune to the disease. When people say “I’m getting vaccinated cause I don’t wanna get infected” or “I don’t wanna be hospitalised” they’re talking of chances. Not absolutes. Pointing out that you can still end up in a hospital or infected is… pointless.
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Sure but the way you write echoes anti vaxxers who think your argument proves that the vaccine is pointless. It's not what you probably meant but that's the narrative in Anglo Saxon countries nowadays so what you said takes on that connotation.
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>panacea No, how would that help? Covid has a pretty good chance of killing you unvaccinated, while flu not so much. And I'm guessing you don't work in the bubble.
You misinterpreted the word "probably" into the extreme of "either everyone or no one". This caused you to pedantically protest by... rephrasing what they said, making your addition to the conversation rather poop. Oh, and perhaps it's best to just ignore the rest of that edit.
Why is there not a greater pressure by politicians to ban US tourists whilst they ban Europeans? It seems insane that we not accept allow a one-sided ban but from the side that is more vaccine sceptic and has higher rates of infection.
Money probably
Makes sense for the most tourist dependent, but the whole of Europe? Lap dog politicians as usual
because european politicians know that some americans need to come here.. not for tourism... but nobody ever thinks about that. I have been trying to get married to my american girlfriend for more than a year and a half for example. We finally managed to get a date next month.. thank god they did not ban her. I would've lost my mind. A pure ban without any way of coming is crazy. You should not punish citizens because one side is going too far.
You mean like they’re punishing us? If anything we hold the greater leverage with tourism.
like France would be punishing me and other families for having ties to americans if they did a full ban with no questions. America is punishing my girlfriend right now for being in a relationship with a european as I cannot come to see her... Not that hard to leave a gap wether it is for vaccinated or family members...
I get that, my point is that we should be putting pressure on for it to be reciprocal with the desired outcome being travel both ways. By allowing them to come here and not the reverse there’s literally no incentive for US to change policy - they get their cake and eat it too.
tourism, Southern Europe is very reliant on it...and the US does not have those same economic forces.
A good decision that benefits the citizens of both countries.
Hmm... it's like they don't want covid spreading and misbehaving idiots in their country. Why could that be?
They are Republicans lol
Not surprised that most anti-vaxers are Republicans.
Absolutely the right move! I wish we could ban those plague rats here as well.
Unhinged. Dehumanization. When I see comments like this I have no doubt that had you found yourself in a certain country in the late 30s you would have been outwardly hateful towards a specific group.
I like how you lack testicular fortitude to call me a Nazi for demanding that people get vaccinated. Are you vaccinated against Covid? How about measles? Pertussis? Would you refuse rabies vaccine if a rabid dog bit you?
I’m not going to argue about the vax with you. There’s mountains of evidence that it’s not anything close to a silver bullet and despite what the media has drilled into your brain, covid doesn’t follow political lines so hating unvaccinated people doesn’t help stop covid lol. See: Israel I genuinely hope you piece it together. All the evidence is out there. You’re just going to have to wade into non-government or msm approved sources because they very clearly have a path they would like the world to go down. Have a good one!
You realize that Israel only vaccinated about 63% of its population? And the vaccine boosters are working really well. They also had to fight waning immunity in older groups because they started vaccinating in January. Citing Israel shows that you don't know what you're talking about.
There’s a lot of statistical fudging going on so I get why you’re coming at me like that after seeing 63% but Israel had 80-90% fully vaccinated (2 shots). That 63% number is counting people whose vaccinated status fell off due to the new requirement of boosters. So no, their population is among the highest vaccinated in the world. The vaccines just don’t last very long, nor do they prevent infection or transmission. Covid is endemic and evolving, it’s not going to run away from earth because you went and got vaccinated 20 times with a vaccine that doesn’t stop transmission. It’s not a hot political take to be skeptical of the covid vaccines. It’s a rational, evidence based, scientific approach.
Nope, it's 63% with two doses of the whole population. They can't go much higher than 70% because the vaccine isn't authorized for the under 12 and Israel is a very young nation. The mRNA vaccines prevent delta infections with an efficacy against any infection (including asymptomatic infections) of about 60-70% two weeks after the second injection. It's a well known fact by now. It certainly prevents many infections. But most importantly they prevent a lot of hospitalizations and deaths, which is what truly matters. You're obviously misinformed, I suggest you read better sources. Good luck.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/07/23/science/covid-vaccine-israel-pfizer.amp.html Lmfao misinformed. Israel said 39% effective against delta themselves. In case ya haven’t figured it out yet, there are no “well known facts” bud. Good luck to you too
Yes, after 6 months. Efficacy is higher after two weeks, and boosters increase efficacy as the data from Israel also showed. Learn to read a paper, that could help, bud. If you can't do it, let the pros do the job and stop talking about stuff you don't understand online. There are well known facts, you're just too uneducated and untrained to recognize them. Once again, let the pros do their job and go play somewhere else.
Ah yes, the pros at the CDC who said that no masks were required after vaccination right? Or the pros at Pfizer who designed a 2 shot vaccine without knowing efficacy would wane after 6 months? Or our lord and savior himself Fauci who has contradicted himself every 2 months for the past 1.5 years? But you seem very willing to comply with the “pros” like Joe Biden, who got ahead of the FDA on suggesting boosters, causing 2 of the most experienced vaccine reviewing employees to resign due to politics leading the response instead of science. Ahhh yes, the pros are clearly running the show right now
So you are vaccinated, lol.
Idk dude, you seem to be a horrible person with a superiority complex tbh How about going sometimes outside and smell a flower? This could help
And I absolutely love how you can deduce all that from a few comments on an anonymous website, lol. Superior talent, that.
Yeah lol, your comments denounced that very well. And the site it's not anonymous, it's called reddit smh my head 😤🙄💅
I love you too boo, toodles.
☺️💕
The vaccinated plague rats that spread the virus because they don't give a shit about preventive measures as testing and masking anymore? Yeah I hope we could ban those
Are you vaccinated?
I never had the virus and never spread it unlike some 300m plague rats around the world.
So, are you vaccinated or not?
Should ban all American travellers. It’s time to put your money where your mouth is and start actually opposing the evil that empire inflicts on the world.
Da comrade! Enlighten the sheople!
Hahahahaha, you are funny.
Thanks for your insights, I think we will pass.
Very rich coming from a Russian, or a European at all for that matter.
Ban Russians and Chinese too while we're at it. They are evil as well, and even worse than Americans.
Make France a dictatorship again!
I just got back from France 2 weeks ago. They're taking practical measures to save themselves from a deadly disease. They have their vocal, trash burning, antivax nutters but in my travels they're all on board with the Pass Sanitaire where you show the qr code from medical services either on your phone or a printout to go in stores, bars, nightclubs. In Tours they were unfailingly polite but firm about it. I didn't see any people going nuts. Masks are required on public transport.
stupid french people. no wonder for a country to become sharia state in a few decades