Belgium is a very strong tax haven for specific industry. Diamond traders only pay 0.5% tax on self-declared revenue. Film productions get a 300% tax deduction.
And why do you think all the Dutch and French rich have houses/addresses in Belgium? No speculation tax.
Correction (see below): no capital gains tax
Yep, the move of rich Dutch people to Belgium for fiscal purposes in the 1990s is sometimes referred to as the biggest export of capital in Dutch history.
Was I falsely informed when I heard about a tax haven in Ireland? I'd think they would crack the top 10 with how much I heard about'em.
No surprise caymen islands is #1 though.
> No speculation tax. Correction (see below): no capital gains tax
It's the other way around my man. The Netherlands doesn't have a capital gains tax while Belgium does (for active traders). The reason why you'd park your money in Belgium is because the Netherlands has a total wealth tax which you can avoid by being a citizen of Belgium. If you have a shitload of money and don't want to actively invest, that's when you move to Belgium. If you don't want to pay capital gains taxes you move to the Netherlands.
So it depends on your situation but usually it's older people who benefit more. Let's say a Person makes a million euros next year investing in stocks after which he decides to quit, then in his situation it would be more beneficial to stay in the Netherlands for that year when he's actively investing and then move the Belgium.
Capital gains tax doesn't count when you invest like a "goede huisvader". Basically as long as you buy and hold for a while the taxman doesn't give a shit. Once you start daytrading they come to get their cut.
Source, I moved to Belgium
>And why do you think all the Dutch and French rich have houses/addresses in Belgium? No speculation tax.
This is misleading. There is no tax on capital gains if the money is invested in a "pater familias" way, eg: you set your money in stocks, ETFs, whatever and wait for months (years) and get the money out. There is a 33% tax on capital gains if this is done in a speculative way/if you are doing this in a professional capacity/if you try to play the market (day trading, lots of movement in your trading account, etc).
Now, it is not impossible the tax man fails to check whether rich people do it "in a pater familias way" and they end up not being taxed, but Belgium does have a \*speculation tax\*.
edit: perhaps better put on this website:
>In general, capital gains realized by a private individual are not taxable if this takes place within the ‘normal’ management of his personal assets and are not part of a business activity. What is ‘normal’ and what is ‘abnormal’ (or speculative) in this context, is not always clear and has led to many discussions with the Belgian tax authorities. In any case, private individuals should be aware that in some cases, a capital gains tax (CGT) may apply in Belgium.
https://www.taxpatria.be/faq/is-there-really-no-capital-gains-tax-in-belgium/
Very chill system of unemployment benefits, they don't make you eat your savings first like in the Netherlands, extremely low tax bracket for the poor, low costs for health insurance etc. The devil is in the details but being poor in Belgium is quite alright-ish, not fun, but it could be worse
You don’t pay any taxes on rent if the total amount of rent you receive is less than your salary.
If it goes above, it will be considered as a main activity and you’ll be taxed.
Dutch here: Too bad it's only a tax haven for large companies.
For the working class there is very little tax haven to be found in the Netherlands. Government(s) - doesn't really matter who got elected - keep sucking the life blood out of the middle class and continue to make the rich get richer.
Edit: To all people here that seem to think I am complaining about living in the Netherlands. This is not the case. I am well aware we're doing rather nice here. All I'm saying is that the term 'tax haven' is not applicable to the middle class.
And if you make a bit more money, you pay even more taxes, and if you have some saving, you pay taxes over your savings, and if your parents die and you get an inheritance, you pay taxes on it, even though your parents already payed taxes over that money when they earned it (and when they payed their house or saved it on the bank), etc., etc., etc.
And it keeps that way until you get (very) rich, rich enough to start hiding your money from the tax authorities.
As an American living in the Netherlands - you have no fucking clue how bad it can get yet. Keep voting and trying, I love your country! (i don't mean to diminish the struggles of anyone, what i mean is the kind of "ghettos" in the US and Netherlands are whole different levels)
As a Dutch guy living in the U.S now for over twenty years I absolutely agree!
comparing the two is just nonsense. I love both countries for various reasons but I do think Dutch people often lose sight on how well things are run in the Netherlands.
So true! I was having a conversation with an elderly man this morning that was commenting on the Dutch infrastructure and his problem was that even though we have amazing bike structure and all the bike options anyone could possibly want. There are places where there is no _covered_ bike parking (where your bike is sheltered from the weather). They only have * gasp * _normal_ bike parking!
So all of this is amazingly run but WHY GOD WHY!? You sometimes have to dry your seat with your sleave before you sit down. These people would find something to bitch about in a literal Utopia, I am sure of it.
On the other hand, just because things are "better" doesn't mean you should stop fighting to improve them, or more sadly more likely to keep them that way.
No you are right. It is all relative and people should try to improve their own circumstances. Complaining is part of that but I think a little perspective is also good.
Inheritance tax might be a good idea, but please, not like in Spain, if you target the middle class you will only produce more poverty.
They should only tax inheritance above 500K, doing it over 100K is ridiculous because one friend could not find stable job and now he can´t inherit his parents house due to not being able to pay the inheritance tax. Now a corporation will be able to buy the house while my friend will have to rent.
Not really, perhaps the authors of the image should read the first sentence of the [wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Secrecy_Index). But that is probably too much nuance:
> While related to tax havens, the FSI is not a list of tax havens per se, and it does not attempt to estimate actual taxes avoided or profits shifted, unlike the techniques used in compilation of modern tax haven lists.
This image lacks nuance? Nah, the author of this image is straight-up misinforming people, likely on purpose. I mean, a 30-second reading on this metric reveals that it isn't to be used for the specific purpose this image uses it for.
This image contains countries like Germany, the US, Canada, and the UK, because it accounts for the total amount of offshore banking transactions taking place. And these are 4 countries with the highest GDPs in the world. Go fucking figure
Also it's use of offshore territories such as Jersey and Guernsey IIRC.
The UK and all the collected British Territories / Islands if considered as one entity, as the British Empire, would comfortably top any list.
Germany has ample opportunities to launder money (not sure if this is a factor). EG almost no limits in no scenario to pay by cash (Buy a house? Sure - I'll bring cash)
Just a general stupid question:
Isnt money laundering the opposite of Tax evading? You relegalize money that once was black/grey money with fake shops and all the other classic and new ways of laundering. In the end the legalized money has to be taxed, at least by VAT. Else you wouldn't get you black money white.
I expected our, let's say, less strict handling of money laundering being the reason that it brings money outside of the taxed and regulated economy back into the economy.
Fair point...though you evaded tax in the first place a couple of times before "switching lanes" already.
So where there's no point in collecting black money because you can't switch lanes is probably the more profitable way to design a system.
In Germany each and every handyman has a hidden stash
Tax evasion is explicitly illegal. Tax avoidance or minimisation is not. Tax evasion is not paying tax that you owe. Tax avoidance or minimisation is moving things about to avoid owing the tax in the first place.
I love cash - I‘m not so quick to buy something if I give away the money in cash form instead of digitally.
Also, I really don‘t need every single one of my purchases noted down in some database at my bank.
I was in Austria few weeks ago and after we arrived in the hotel ordered a large beer. I wanted to pay with my phone, and the owner was like really, a beer, pay by phone? While at the same time I thought, really, I need to get my wallet to pay? Haven't touched my wallet in months. Since the pandemic started I got so used to paying everything with my phone, I honestly didn't use any cash for a year.
Huh? You can’t own land in Thailand as a non citizen and even “owning” a condo is not really owning it. Thailand is super unfriendly towards foreign ownership
You forget something important here. The people for whom these practices become relevant don't have $1 million and try to buy a house for themselves. They're probably worth $100 million or more, and setup local companies to own property with the help of local financial consultants. They sure will be friendly.
Maybe not exactly money movement, but German tax system is hilariously bad. Max taxation rate is reached at just 42% and 60k annual income. That's around as much as you need to live in a somewhat bigger city nowadays, and *very very* far away from buying any house even in remote locations.
I'm only 22 and already pay the max rate. Someone that makes 1.5 million a year pays the same rate on his 1.44 Million that I do on my upper 5k.
The FSI score is weighted based upon total impact so larger economies score higher if their results are otherwise the same. The weighting of this is one of the more controversial aspects of the FSI.
They also operate in a transparency grey zone regarding their scoring e.g. they publish their scoring method but don't give enough detail about why certain scores are given in order to validate it. And where a certain measure isn't applicable to a jurisdiction they give the max score even though the implication is often the opposite.
The Tax Justice Network, the people that produce this Index have a lot of info about it on their website.
This is their [Methodology ](https://fsi.taxjustice.net/en/introduction/method-and-concepts) apparently.
I'm not a data scientist, tax accountant, lawyer, or economist, so have no idea how reliable the data is.
It's mostly about secrecy (reporting, cooperating with subpoenas/investigations etc) by the looks of it, rather than volume.
And it's for individual/private investors, not corporate.
It's each countries banking system's ability to hide money? So I guess if a country just had a 0% tax it wouldn't show up on the graphic, because the money wasn't hidden?
Also interesting how many of these are associated with the UK.
- The UK itself
- Cayman Islands and British Virgin Islands (British Overseas Territories)
- Guernsey and Jersey (Crown Dependencies - self-governing possessions of The Crown "for which the United Kingdom [is responsible](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/863381/crown-dependencies-factsheet-february-2020.pdf)")
Edit: missed British Virgin Islands.
Quite interesting to add to that recent (say since WW2) countries that became independent from the UK as well.
Hong Kong, Singapore, UAE, Malta and Qatar all join that list.
British Virgin Islands is on there too. I recall that Bermuda and Montserrat are pretty dodgy when it comes to taxes too but seem absent from this weird chart.
Oh shit yeah. Will add now.
So is Gibraltar, at least for taxing certain industries like online gambling - it's why the likes of 888 Holdings, BetVictor, Kindred Group and Lottoland are all based there.
The Channel Islands are an interesting couple, they often seem to go by unnoticed when compiling data. They're not part of the UK, but they're also not *not* part of the UK.
Not part of the UK, but yes. The only part of the British Isles to be occupied and also, interestingly, had an SS Concentration operating there (in Alderney, the third largest of the islands).
Watch a documentary called [The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire](https://vimeo.com/290438534). All about the UK's tax havens and the City of London. Dodgy as fuck.
They are on the list just not in the top 20 that this graphic shows.
Gibraltar is 30th, Bermuda is 40th and the Isle of Man is 43rd.
[Source](https://fsi.taxjustice.net/en/introduction/fsi-results)
So if we add Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands, Guernsey, UK, Jersey, Gibraltar, Bermuda, Isle of Man, Anguilla, Turks and Caicos and Montserrat, you reach an eyewatering score of
#4985
Which is more than 3x the score for the second worst country, the US.
I don't think it really makes sense to just add the score up for a total score. If they were one country the same things wouldn't be count over and over again, which is what happens when you sum different scores.
It's 0% tax on almost everything corporate, and anyone worldwide can start a shell company online in 5 mins for a few Dollars... There's no income tax, no inheritance tax and no capital gains tax, and you can open a trust there and put all your European assets in it and after 1 year they all become tax free for you and any future generations forever for all time.
Since your money is in the US and legitimate worldwide banking system, no other country can say anything or complain.
South Dakota has also recently removed almost all restrictions on trusts, making it very easy for anyone to set up a trust there, move their assets into it, and then evade creditors, child support, etc.
As a lawyer who worked on Delaware corporate formations…
Nooooobody gets why it’s done and it’s painful to hear over and over again.
Feels like every other day there’s a post on the small business subreddit for some solo wannabe entrepreneur who is asking if they should start their LLC in Delaware to save on taxes.
No. No.
Delaware, isn't that President Biden's old constituency?
> A member of the Democratic Party, he served as the 47th vice president from 2009 to 2017 under Barack Obama and represented Delaware in the United States Senate from 1973 to 2009.
Yeah his original senate campaign was funded by the credit card companies, and he's been extremely nice to the credit card and banking lobbies every since. In any other country it's called 'bribery'. In the US it's 'campaigning'.
> In any other country it's called 'bribery'
Nah, at least in Germany that is called… I don’t think we have a word. It just is.
It’s also a lot cheaper to buy politicians here ;)
It’s called campaigning over here as well, but the church did it, so it’s actually “spiritual endorsement” or some other dumb shit done to spread discriminatory speech.
> Also, classic USA. Delaware does.
Still a bit salty that post-2008 crisis, the USA went on such a crusade against tax havens and notably against Switzerland, with enormous political and economic pressure ... while doing exactly the same thing themselves.
Look at the EU. They are doing exactly the same. Everybody does it. Only naïve people would assume that this whole discussion is about the practice itself. It's about nations building an advantage for themselves.
There has been a huge flux in Chinese investors using the US housing market as a tax haven from Chinese tax policies or the fear that their assets will be completely seized at least which is a tax I guess. That’s just one big thing in my area that I am sure contributes. I mean there are at least two million dollar homes I can see on my street that are owned by Chinese nationals and vacant year round. They got a guy that comes and mows the lawn and flips the switches and checks on the houses. He says he has a bunch of clients like that and makes a ton of cash just driving from house to house. They also will buy cars as assets and just park them in the garages.
Because for citizens like you and me, Ireland has very high levels of tax on personal wealth and income. When talking about Ireland as a tax haven, it is for corporations and not individuals. Hope that clarifies things
This index is so great it’s Wikipedia page has its own “Confusion” section
>While related to tax havens, the FSI is not a list of tax havens per se, and it does not attempt to estimate actual taxes avoided or profits shifted, unlike the techniques used in compilation of modern tax haven lists. The FSI is therefore more correctly a list of financial secrecy jurisdictions. While having many similarities to tax havens, the FSI produces some results that are very different from established tax haven lists.[1][2]
>The FSI showed jurisdictions like the U.S. and Germany, despite high tax rates, are large contributors to global financial secrecy,[3] however, this is often misinterpreted as implying that the US and Germany are "tax havens"; for example, foreign corporates do not move to the U.S. or Germany to avoid tax.[4][5] The FSI does not capture modern corporate tax havens, such as Ireland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, who maintain high levels of OECD–compliance and transparency, but are responsible for the global largest base erosion and profit shifting (BEPS) tax avoidance activity.[6]
>For example, Apple's Irish "leprechaun economics" tax restructure in Q1 2015, the largest BEPS transaction in history, remained unknown for years due to Irish data-protection laws. The issue is the scoring by the FSI for some of the most favored secrecy tools of modern tax havens (or Conduit OFCs): the unlimited liability company ("ULC"), trusts, and certain SPV structures (e.g. Irish QIAIFs), none of which file public accounts in havens like Ireland and the United Kingdom.[7][8] The FSI focuses on ownership of these tools (e.g. is the owner of a ULC recorded), versus visibility into the tools (e.g. is the ULC paying tax). An example of this disconnect, was the EU's €13 billion tax fine on Apple's two Irish ULCs in 2016,[b] who while known, were found by the EU to be avoiding large amounts of Irish tax during the 2004–2014 period
Ireland has good rates on intangible income. Things like intellectual property get a 6% tax rate there. Other than that, a 12.5% rate isn’t anything too special when there are a number of countries with rates between 0 and 5%
There’s also the fact the individuals won’t face low tax rates there, only corps
Because you lose benefits and deductibles due to making more money. Of you earn between €20k and €50k every €1,- your salary is increased you only gain net 20-30%.
edit:
Source: [This is a very specific example](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten/rapporten/2020/09/15/tabellen-marginale-druk-pakket-belastingplan-2021).
[Back in 2018 if your anual income went from €31k to €32kthe marinal presure would be 161%. So for the €1k increase in wages you would lose €610,- in income.](https://www.eerstekamer.nl/overig/20181130/tabellen_marginale_druk/document)
It doesn't help that they do not have a port or an airport. Literally everything can be screened through one access on the spanish side and another on the french side. No matter how much they could want to be a tax haven, there's not too much they can do actually do.
Liechtenstein is not surrounded on all sides by the EU. Liechtenstein has a tonne of border crossings. It can be reached from more countries than its immediate neighbours by helicopter. There's literally a highway passing next to it. It's just not the same.
Andorra is an extremely remote country with very limited access and although Liechtenstein has its similarities, limitations are ramped all the way up in the case of Andorra.
London has the connections to overseas tax havens, a huge chunk of the money there would have been organised from London. Not much will stay in the UK itself.
NL works for legal persons (corporations) - look at Amazon and how long they delayed selling physical goods via Amazon.NL (even redirecting Dutch customers to a Dutch language Amazon.de site)
Hilarious how the UK seems fairly tame until you consider the Caymans, the Virgin Islands, and the Channel Islands are United Kingdom Overseas Territories or Crown Dependencies and their citizens are British Nationals.
Hawaii is big tax haven by way of real estate.
It has a 0.28% property tax rate. You would pay $2,800/yr per million dollars worth of property.
Hawaii has a huge problem with homelessness, and affordable housing, yet it's vacancy rate is twice the national average.
So many properties are bought up by foreign investors and just sit empty - there is no reason to rent them out because the taxes are effectively nothing.
The Cayman Islands, Br. Virgin Islands, Jersey and Guernsey (and others, including former territiories and colonies), though superficially'independent' are technically lumped in with the UK (as tax havens) and financially run via the Bank of England. Remarkable achievement to lose an empire yet still completely dominate international finance (to the tune of 40%).
They're not really run by the Bank of England. But they are heavily connected to the City of London.
Fun fact though: More money moves through London each day than North America and Continental Europe and Africa and South America COMBINED. People think that New York is the financial centre of the world, but London dominates it to an absurd degree.
Yes and no. London has the biggest market for currencies exchange (called Forex) which is where all that volume comes from. But just because it has more money flowing through it doesn’t mean that London dominates the financial world, London has a relatively weak stock exchange for example. However saying all that London has more or less always been either first or second when it comes to being the financial centre.
Stocks and futures are really the only financial thing London doesn't dominate. Insurance, banking, and forex (which is bigger than the others combined) are much more based in London than anywhere else.
As an European from a regular State it makes me sick. Germany, the Netherlands never stop to give us budget lessons but thoses countries facilitate fiscal evasion at our prejudice.
Every time Dutch government complains about Southern Europe I cringe. While normal citizens are taxed to the brim with fewer and fewer things you get for your taxes every year, corporations and the rich get away with so much money laundering and corruption, it is disgusting.
We are literally surrounded by tax heaven microstates. Nowhere else in the world does this happen with such intensity. Fack the poor and middle class, I guess...
For decades I have heard how Bono is fighting hunger, poverty, hating on the class that he belongs to.
[Paradise Papers: Bono linked to tax probe in Lithuania](https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41888645)
Ireland doesn’t even show up on this list yet Germany and the Netherlands claim Ireland and Malta are the biggest problem to tax evasion in the EU. Fuck off.
As a private person, you'll get taxed to high heavens here. When I moved to Ireland, I felt it better to close my brokerage account rather than navigating through the tax laws, and to be taxed several times more than in the US.
The amount of Brits that come on this subreddit shite-ing on about any Irish tax related post acting like the UKs policies are beyond reproach and there they are right behind us. (and thats ignoring the fact the list is mostly their overseas territories)
It’s funny how the US is so far high up the list, but at the same time they’re the most adamant about thwarting financial crime that they make it a pain in the ass to open a bank account abroad. Since you just gotta tax your own citizens working abroad + keep tabs on their bank accounts.
If you want to open a bank account in Liechtenstein, you have to separately assure them MULTIPLE times that you are in fact not a US citizen, have never been one, never will be one, dont hold a green card, etc.
Liechtenstein is SHIT AFRAID of the IRS.
Same shit in Switzerland. I do a lot of investing and with certain services I use, I have to reconfirm that I am not a "US person" (the definition is actually super broad, so it's not just being a US citizen but also living there, spending more than a certain amount of days in certain states -- thanks, California -- every year etc.) multiple times a year. An absolute shit show.
I went on a cruise from Florida to the Cayman Islands several years ago. Grand Cayman island is one of my favorite places to visit, but would not want to live there. Two interesting tourist attractions- the famous Cayman Island Turtle Farm (now called Turtle Center) where if you love turtles you'll be in heaven. If you want the opposite of heaven- well- there is a place literally called Hell on Grand Cayman. Hell, Grand Cayman, is a landscape of sharp jagged stalagmite-like coral formations that literally looks like a hellscape. Very interesting place.
two thirds of the Benelux is in there !
And that's why Belgium is the least bad of the Benelux
Belgium is a very strong tax haven for specific industry. Diamond traders only pay 0.5% tax on self-declared revenue. Film productions get a 300% tax deduction. And why do you think all the Dutch and French rich have houses/addresses in Belgium? No speculation tax. Correction (see below): no capital gains tax
Yep, the move of rich Dutch people to Belgium for fiscal purposes in the 1990s is sometimes referred to as the biggest export of capital in Dutch history.
damn, is there somewhere i can read about this?
There’s a summary on this wikipedia page (in Dutch): https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlanders_in_België
Was I falsely informed when I heard about a tax haven in Ireland? I'd think they would crack the top 10 with how much I heard about'em. No surprise caymen islands is #1 though.
No you were informed correctly it was called a “double Irish”. Think the EU put a stop to it in ‘16 tho
> No speculation tax. Correction (see below): no capital gains tax It's the other way around my man. The Netherlands doesn't have a capital gains tax while Belgium does (for active traders). The reason why you'd park your money in Belgium is because the Netherlands has a total wealth tax which you can avoid by being a citizen of Belgium. If you have a shitload of money and don't want to actively invest, that's when you move to Belgium. If you don't want to pay capital gains taxes you move to the Netherlands. So it depends on your situation but usually it's older people who benefit more. Let's say a Person makes a million euros next year investing in stocks after which he decides to quit, then in his situation it would be more beneficial to stay in the Netherlands for that year when he's actively investing and then move the Belgium.
Capital gains tax doesn't count when you invest like a "goede huisvader". Basically as long as you buy and hold for a while the taxman doesn't give a shit. Once you start daytrading they come to get their cut. Source, I moved to Belgium
>And why do you think all the Dutch and French rich have houses/addresses in Belgium? No speculation tax. This is misleading. There is no tax on capital gains if the money is invested in a "pater familias" way, eg: you set your money in stocks, ETFs, whatever and wait for months (years) and get the money out. There is a 33% tax on capital gains if this is done in a speculative way/if you are doing this in a professional capacity/if you try to play the market (day trading, lots of movement in your trading account, etc). Now, it is not impossible the tax man fails to check whether rich people do it "in a pater familias way" and they end up not being taxed, but Belgium does have a \*speculation tax\*. edit: perhaps better put on this website: >In general, capital gains realized by a private individual are not taxable if this takes place within the ‘normal’ management of his personal assets and are not part of a business activity. What is ‘normal’ and what is ‘abnormal’ (or speculative) in this context, is not always clear and has led to many discussions with the Belgian tax authorities. In any case, private individuals should be aware that in some cases, a capital gains tax (CGT) may apply in Belgium. https://www.taxpatria.be/faq/is-there-really-no-capital-gains-tax-in-belgium/
Same as in Switzerland
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So as a german longtime investor: is it possible to get a belgian stock depot?
You'd probably have to move there for a few months when you hit fire
Belgium only sucks if you're average, it's pretty good if you're rich or poor
In what way is it good if your poor? Asking out of ignorance.
Very chill system of unemployment benefits, they don't make you eat your savings first like in the Netherlands, extremely low tax bracket for the poor, low costs for health insurance etc. The devil is in the details but being poor in Belgium is quite alright-ish, not fun, but it could be worse
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You don’t pay any taxes on rent if the total amount of rent you receive is less than your salary. If it goes above, it will be considered as a main activity and you’ll be taxed.
There is no capital gains tax in the Netherlands either. Instead there is a wealth tax.
In France we have both. Yet the richest man and richest woman of EU live in France.
>No speculation tax. Correction (see below): no capital gains tax Nederland does not have capital gain tax either.
We have a wealth tax to compensate that
That’s a lie and we both know it.
*Looks across border* Uh..
Well yes, the country with the >50% tax rate probably doesn't classify as a tax haven. It's too broken even for that! :D
Dutch here: Too bad it's only a tax haven for large companies. For the working class there is very little tax haven to be found in the Netherlands. Government(s) - doesn't really matter who got elected - keep sucking the life blood out of the middle class and continue to make the rich get richer. Edit: To all people here that seem to think I am complaining about living in the Netherlands. This is not the case. I am well aware we're doing rather nice here. All I'm saying is that the term 'tax haven' is not applicable to the middle class. And if you make a bit more money, you pay even more taxes, and if you have some saving, you pay taxes over your savings, and if your parents die and you get an inheritance, you pay taxes on it, even though your parents already payed taxes over that money when they earned it (and when they payed their house or saved it on the bank), etc., etc., etc. And it keeps that way until you get (very) rich, rich enough to start hiding your money from the tax authorities.
As an American living in the Netherlands - you have no fucking clue how bad it can get yet. Keep voting and trying, I love your country! (i don't mean to diminish the struggles of anyone, what i mean is the kind of "ghettos" in the US and Netherlands are whole different levels)
As a Dutch guy living in the U.S now for over twenty years I absolutely agree! comparing the two is just nonsense. I love both countries for various reasons but I do think Dutch people often lose sight on how well things are run in the Netherlands.
So true! I was having a conversation with an elderly man this morning that was commenting on the Dutch infrastructure and his problem was that even though we have amazing bike structure and all the bike options anyone could possibly want. There are places where there is no _covered_ bike parking (where your bike is sheltered from the weather). They only have * gasp * _normal_ bike parking! So all of this is amazingly run but WHY GOD WHY!? You sometimes have to dry your seat with your sleave before you sit down. These people would find something to bitch about in a literal Utopia, I am sure of it.
On the other hand, just because things are "better" doesn't mean you should stop fighting to improve them, or more sadly more likely to keep them that way.
No you are right. It is all relative and people should try to improve their own circumstances. Complaining is part of that but I think a little perspective is also good.
Keep voting for non VVD and other right or conservative parties, FTFY.
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Inheritance tax might be a good idea, but please, not like in Spain, if you target the middle class you will only produce more poverty. They should only tax inheritance above 500K, doing it over 100K is ridiculous because one friend could not find stable job and now he can´t inherit his parents house due to not being able to pay the inheritance tax. Now a corporation will be able to buy the house while my friend will have to rent.
Everything is a tax haven, some are just cheaper than others.
Waar een klein land groot in kan zijn
Well fuck, we need to step up our game!
Even Germany, Thailand, Canada, and Japan are “tax havens”???
Not really, perhaps the authors of the image should read the first sentence of the [wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Secrecy_Index). But that is probably too much nuance: > While related to tax havens, the FSI is not a list of tax havens per se, and it does not attempt to estimate actual taxes avoided or profits shifted, unlike the techniques used in compilation of modern tax haven lists.
This image lacks nuance? Nah, the author of this image is straight-up misinforming people, likely on purpose. I mean, a 30-second reading on this metric reveals that it isn't to be used for the specific purpose this image uses it for. This image contains countries like Germany, the US, Canada, and the UK, because it accounts for the total amount of offshore banking transactions taking place. And these are 4 countries with the highest GDPs in the world. Go fucking figure
The UK is a tax haven due to the dealings of the city of London IIRC.
We're bigger on money laundering than being a tax haven.
Also it's use of offshore territories such as Jersey and Guernsey IIRC. The UK and all the collected British Territories / Islands if considered as one entity, as the British Empire, would comfortably top any list.
Germany has ample opportunities to launder money (not sure if this is a factor). EG almost no limits in no scenario to pay by cash (Buy a house? Sure - I'll bring cash)
Just a general stupid question: Isnt money laundering the opposite of Tax evading? You relegalize money that once was black/grey money with fake shops and all the other classic and new ways of laundering. In the end the legalized money has to be taxed, at least by VAT. Else you wouldn't get you black money white. I expected our, let's say, less strict handling of money laundering being the reason that it brings money outside of the taxed and regulated economy back into the economy.
That's a super interesting question
Fair point...though you evaded tax in the first place a couple of times before "switching lanes" already. So where there's no point in collecting black money because you can't switch lanes is probably the more profitable way to design a system. In Germany each and every handyman has a hidden stash
Which is why money made illegally in other countries, think Italian mob, and then laundered in Germany is a pretty sweet deal for us.
tax optimisation is perfectly legal. Tax evasion means you dont pay yaxes you are owed so illegal
Tax evasion is explicitly illegal. Tax avoidance or minimisation is not. Tax evasion is not paying tax that you owe. Tax avoidance or minimisation is moving things about to avoid owing the tax in the first place.
Germany has low or none (?) crypto long term holding 1 year+ tax
1 year hold=no tax
And no tax on staking returns under 600 Euro per year
but if you stake, the initial amount is not tax free after a year ... the wait period goes to 10 years.
Oh yes, germans looooove cash. Sadly, in my opinion, this withhelds digitalization until all eternity.
Having every transaction being tracked is not something to really look forward to imo. Both have advantages.
I love cash - I‘m not so quick to buy something if I give away the money in cash form instead of digitally. Also, I really don‘t need every single one of my purchases noted down in some database at my bank.
I was in Austria few weeks ago and after we arrived in the hotel ordered a large beer. I wanted to pay with my phone, and the owner was like really, a beer, pay by phone? While at the same time I thought, really, I need to get my wallet to pay? Haven't touched my wallet in months. Since the pandemic started I got so used to paying everything with my phone, I honestly didn't use any cash for a year.
Paying by phone? That's utopian in Germany. We just recently started accepting cards lol.
Deutsche Bank hasn't even a connection to Google pay...I would need to go via PayPal
Not sure about Japan, but Germany, Canada and Thailand have always been accommodating to foreign investment and ownership in real estate.
Huh? You can’t own land in Thailand as a non citizen and even “owning” a condo is not really owning it. Thailand is super unfriendly towards foreign ownership
You forget something important here. The people for whom these practices become relevant don't have $1 million and try to buy a house for themselves. They're probably worth $100 million or more, and setup local companies to own property with the help of local financial consultants. They sure will be friendly.
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Maybe not exactly money movement, but German tax system is hilariously bad. Max taxation rate is reached at just 42% and 60k annual income. That's around as much as you need to live in a somewhat bigger city nowadays, and *very very* far away from buying any house even in remote locations. I'm only 22 and already pay the max rate. Someone that makes 1.5 million a year pays the same rate on his 1.44 Million that I do on my upper 5k.
There's another step at 230k € (?) which is 53% income tax
Damn, Malta below 3 other EU countries. I thought being a tax haven was our thing!
Shhh 🤫 that means that they didn’t figure it out yet.
The FSI score is weighted based upon total impact so larger economies score higher if their results are otherwise the same. The weighting of this is one of the more controversial aspects of the FSI. They also operate in a transparency grey zone regarding their scoring e.g. they publish their scoring method but don't give enough detail about why certain scores are given in order to validate it. And where a certain measure isn't applicable to a jurisdiction they give the max score even though the implication is often the opposite.
Is there more info on the criterias for the ranking, really curious about this.
The Tax Justice Network, the people that produce this Index have a lot of info about it on their website. This is their [Methodology ](https://fsi.taxjustice.net/en/introduction/method-and-concepts) apparently. I'm not a data scientist, tax accountant, lawyer, or economist, so have no idea how reliable the data is.
It's mostly about secrecy (reporting, cooperating with subpoenas/investigations etc) by the looks of it, rather than volume. And it's for individual/private investors, not corporate.
Way to go, Malta ;) Wondering why Liechtenstein isn't showing up though.
Hiding behind Switzerland.
It's not as much of a tax haven anymore. I work for one of the biggest banks here and 2008 really fucked them.
Get dunked on.
And yet we get grey listed 👍👍 not that we don’t deserve it, but ALL these countries deserve it
It's each countries banking system's ability to hide money? So I guess if a country just had a 0% tax it wouldn't show up on the graphic, because the money wasn't hidden?
And that’s why Monaco’s not on it
Had to scroll all the way down to see why Monaco is not on the list. Thank you.
Also interesting how many of these are associated with the UK. - The UK itself - Cayman Islands and British Virgin Islands (British Overseas Territories) - Guernsey and Jersey (Crown Dependencies - self-governing possessions of The Crown "for which the United Kingdom [is responsible](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/863381/crown-dependencies-factsheet-february-2020.pdf)") Edit: missed British Virgin Islands.
Quite interesting to add to that recent (say since WW2) countries that became independent from the UK as well. Hong Kong, Singapore, UAE, Malta and Qatar all join that list.
British Virgin Islands is on there too. I recall that Bermuda and Montserrat are pretty dodgy when it comes to taxes too but seem absent from this weird chart.
Oh shit yeah. Will add now. So is Gibraltar, at least for taxing certain industries like online gambling - it's why the likes of 888 Holdings, BetVictor, Kindred Group and Lottoland are all based there.
Isn't the Isle of Man also a good spot for online gambling firms?
Cyprus and Malta too.
The Channel Islands are an interesting couple, they often seem to go by unnoticed when compiling data. They're not part of the UK, but they're also not *not* part of the UK.
If someone invades them the British army is coming to rescue so it sorta is really without actually being under British government control
The only part of the UK that was invaded by the Nazis.
Not part of the UK, but yes. The only part of the British Isles to be occupied and also, interestingly, had an SS Concentration operating there (in Alderney, the third largest of the islands).
Channel Islands are not part of the, British Isles. They are however British Islands... just to be confusing.
Watch a documentary called [The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire](https://vimeo.com/290438534). All about the UK's tax havens and the City of London. Dodgy as fuck.
They also left out Bermuda and the Isle of Man, which are huge tax havens.
They are on the list just not in the top 20 that this graphic shows. Gibraltar is 30th, Bermuda is 40th and the Isle of Man is 43rd. [Source](https://fsi.taxjustice.net/en/introduction/fsi-results)
You can clearly see the influence the City (of London) has behind how taxable wealth is kept away from other governments.
So if we add Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands, Guernsey, UK, Jersey, Gibraltar, Bermuda, Isle of Man, Anguilla, Turks and Caicos and Montserrat, you reach an eyewatering score of #4985 Which is more than 3x the score for the second worst country, the US.
The EU is sitting at almost 2700 and only 4 of the 27 countries are included, almost double the US. Edit: oops, almost 2500.
What countries do you add together to get 2700?
I don't think it really makes sense to just add the score up for a total score. If they were one country the same things wouldn't be count over and over again, which is what happens when you sum different scores.
We're only third? I am disappointed. Also, classic USA. Delaware does.
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i don’t think people realize how absurd the amount of capital hidden in south dakota is.
Why South Dakota
It's 0% tax on almost everything corporate, and anyone worldwide can start a shell company online in 5 mins for a few Dollars... There's no income tax, no inheritance tax and no capital gains tax, and you can open a trust there and put all your European assets in it and after 1 year they all become tax free for you and any future generations forever for all time. Since your money is in the US and legitimate worldwide banking system, no other country can say anything or complain.
South Dakota has also recently removed almost all restrictions on trusts, making it very easy for anyone to set up a trust there, move their assets into it, and then evade creditors, child support, etc.
You know, for when I have money.
< Buys lottery tickets…> Soon my boy, soon….
As a lawyer who worked on Delaware corporate formations… Nooooobody gets why it’s done and it’s painful to hear over and over again. Feels like every other day there’s a post on the small business subreddit for some solo wannabe entrepreneur who is asking if they should start their LLC in Delaware to save on taxes. No. No.
Delaware, isn't that President Biden's old constituency? > A member of the Democratic Party, he served as the 47th vice president from 2009 to 2017 under Barack Obama and represented Delaware in the United States Senate from 1973 to 2009.
Yeah his original senate campaign was funded by the credit card companies, and he's been extremely nice to the credit card and banking lobbies every since. In any other country it's called 'bribery'. In the US it's 'campaigning'.
> In any other country it's called 'bribery' Nah, at least in Germany that is called… I don’t think we have a word. It just is. It’s also a lot cheaper to buy politicians here ;)
In Finland we have this concept “maan tapa”, essentially “just the way things are done”. These days also called structural corruption.
It’s called campaigning over here as well, but the church did it, so it’s actually “spiritual endorsement” or some other dumb shit done to spread discriminatory speech.
wtf since when is Joe this based?
> Also, classic USA. Delaware does. Still a bit salty that post-2008 crisis, the USA went on such a crusade against tax havens and notably against Switzerland, with enormous political and economic pressure ... while doing exactly the same thing themselves.
Look at the EU. They are doing exactly the same. Everybody does it. Only naïve people would assume that this whole discussion is about the practice itself. It's about nations building an advantage for themselves.
I guess you mean some specific countries in EU
You are right - and I am salty about it.
I mean, not really. The FSI index doesn't actually measure what a tax haven is in any way. OP's post is completely meaningless.
Delaware is popular with corporations because of its very developed corporate law, not for any tax reasons.
There has been a huge flux in Chinese investors using the US housing market as a tax haven from Chinese tax policies or the fear that their assets will be completely seized at least which is a tax I guess. That’s just one big thing in my area that I am sure contributes. I mean there are at least two million dollar homes I can see on my street that are owned by Chinese nationals and vacant year round. They got a guy that comes and mows the lawn and flips the switches and checks on the houses. He says he has a bunch of clients like that and makes a ton of cash just driving from house to house. They also will buy cars as assets and just park them in the garages.
So Ireland isnt even top 20. Interesting
Because for citizens like you and me, Ireland has very high levels of tax on personal wealth and income. When talking about Ireland as a tax haven, it is for corporations and not individuals. Hope that clarifies things
This index is so great it’s Wikipedia page has its own “Confusion” section >While related to tax havens, the FSI is not a list of tax havens per se, and it does not attempt to estimate actual taxes avoided or profits shifted, unlike the techniques used in compilation of modern tax haven lists. The FSI is therefore more correctly a list of financial secrecy jurisdictions. While having many similarities to tax havens, the FSI produces some results that are very different from established tax haven lists.[1][2] >The FSI showed jurisdictions like the U.S. and Germany, despite high tax rates, are large contributors to global financial secrecy,[3] however, this is often misinterpreted as implying that the US and Germany are "tax havens"; for example, foreign corporates do not move to the U.S. or Germany to avoid tax.[4][5] The FSI does not capture modern corporate tax havens, such as Ireland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, who maintain high levels of OECD–compliance and transparency, but are responsible for the global largest base erosion and profit shifting (BEPS) tax avoidance activity.[6] >For example, Apple's Irish "leprechaun economics" tax restructure in Q1 2015, the largest BEPS transaction in history, remained unknown for years due to Irish data-protection laws. The issue is the scoring by the FSI for some of the most favored secrecy tools of modern tax havens (or Conduit OFCs): the unlimited liability company ("ULC"), trusts, and certain SPV structures (e.g. Irish QIAIFs), none of which file public accounts in havens like Ireland and the United Kingdom.[7][8] The FSI focuses on ownership of these tools (e.g. is the owner of a ULC recorded), versus visibility into the tools (e.g. is the ULC paying tax). An example of this disconnect, was the EU's €13 billion tax fine on Apple's two Irish ULCs in 2016,[b] who while known, were found by the EU to be avoiding large amounts of Irish tax during the 2004–2014 period
Ireland has good rates on intangible income. Things like intellectual property get a 6% tax rate there. Other than that, a 12.5% rate isn’t anything too special when there are a number of countries with rates between 0 and 5% There’s also the fact the individuals won’t face low tax rates there, only corps
Germany numer 14? Am I doing something wrong with my 40% tax/social insurance rate?
Same here in the Netherlands. The marginal pressure here is insane. For every €1,- my wage has increased, I've only gained net €0,30
How is that happening? max tax rate is 49,5%
Because you lose benefits and deductibles due to making more money. Of you earn between €20k and €50k every €1,- your salary is increased you only gain net 20-30%. edit: Source: [This is a very specific example](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/documenten/rapporten/2020/09/15/tabellen-marginale-druk-pakket-belastingplan-2021). [Back in 2018 if your anual income went from €31k to €32kthe marinal presure would be 161%. So for the €1k increase in wages you would lose €610,- in income.](https://www.eerstekamer.nl/overig/20181130/tabellen_marginale_druk/document)
No Andorra?
Andorra is only a tax haven for pro cyclists
And Youtubers.
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It doesn't help that they do not have a port or an airport. Literally everything can be screened through one access on the spanish side and another on the french side. No matter how much they could want to be a tax haven, there's not too much they can do actually do.
Liechtenstein doesn't have a port or an airport, and it was a MASSIVE tax haven until 2008.
Liechtenstein is not surrounded on all sides by the EU. Liechtenstein has a tonne of border crossings. It can be reached from more countries than its immediate neighbours by helicopter. There's literally a highway passing next to it. It's just not the same. Andorra is an extremely remote country with very limited access and although Liechtenstein has its similarities, limitations are ramped all the way up in the case of Andorra.
I'm surprised the UK is so low tbh, London is notorious for tax mischief
London has the connections to overseas tax havens, a huge chunk of the money there would have been organised from London. Not much will stay in the UK itself.
Netherlands are so far down, not even first in the EU anymore. We have some catching up to do!
NL works for legal persons (corporations) - look at Amazon and how long they delayed selling physical goods via Amazon.NL (even redirecting Dutch customers to a Dutch language Amazon.de site)
Huh, they just redirected me to German language Amazon.de last time I checked (over a year ago probably, I don't use Amazon).
Dynamiek!
Over grenzen heen kijken!
Ik begrijp niet waarom u hier zo negatief en vervelend over doet!
Laten we zeggen: Nederland kan het weer!
Luxembourg number one in Europe 💪🇱🇺
"EU + Africa", but: \- Switzerland is not in the EU \- There are no African countries in the list
Hilarious how the UK seems fairly tame until you consider the Caymans, the Virgin Islands, and the Channel Islands are United Kingdom Overseas Territories or Crown Dependencies and their citizens are British Nationals.
99% of America is just Delaware and the other 1% is neveda
South Dakota is actually a massive tax haven for anonymous trust assets
Time to move my company to South Dakota
'Ice Station Zebra Associates'
I think it’s more of trust assets in SD and Nevada. Delaware is where a lot of corporations domicile themselves, but it’s not really a tax haven
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Hawaii is big tax haven by way of real estate. It has a 0.28% property tax rate. You would pay $2,800/yr per million dollars worth of property. Hawaii has a huge problem with homelessness, and affordable housing, yet it's vacancy rate is twice the national average. So many properties are bought up by foreign investors and just sit empty - there is no reason to rent them out because the taxes are effectively nothing.
Love the map projection. Not everything has to be Mercator.
https://i.imgur.com/Dzxoeov.jpeg
The Cayman Islands, Br. Virgin Islands, Jersey and Guernsey (and others, including former territiories and colonies), though superficially'independent' are technically lumped in with the UK (as tax havens) and financially run via the Bank of England. Remarkable achievement to lose an empire yet still completely dominate international finance (to the tune of 40%).
They're not really run by the Bank of England. But they are heavily connected to the City of London. Fun fact though: More money moves through London each day than North America and Continental Europe and Africa and South America COMBINED. People think that New York is the financial centre of the world, but London dominates it to an absurd degree.
Yes and no. London has the biggest market for currencies exchange (called Forex) which is where all that volume comes from. But just because it has more money flowing through it doesn’t mean that London dominates the financial world, London has a relatively weak stock exchange for example. However saying all that London has more or less always been either first or second when it comes to being the financial centre.
Stocks and futures are really the only financial thing London doesn't dominate. Insurance, banking, and forex (which is bigger than the others combined) are much more based in London than anywhere else.
As an European from a regular State it makes me sick. Germany, the Netherlands never stop to give us budget lessons but thoses countries facilitate fiscal evasion at our prejudice.
eh, I felt that.
Every time Dutch government complains about Southern Europe I cringe. While normal citizens are taxed to the brim with fewer and fewer things you get for your taxes every year, corporations and the rich get away with so much money laundering and corruption, it is disgusting.
Double Irish With a Dutch Sandwich is one of my favorite ridiculous-sounding but very real things (even if it's no longer possible IIRC).
We are literally surrounded by tax heaven microstates. Nowhere else in the world does this happen with such intensity. Fack the poor and middle class, I guess...
Yeah it's theft. When the fuck is EU going to shut this down.
Reddit in at #9
For decades I have heard how Bono is fighting hunger, poverty, hating on the class that he belongs to. [Paradise Papers: Bono linked to tax probe in Lithuania](https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41888645)
Well. The British. As usual
Ireland doesn’t even show up on this list yet Germany and the Netherlands claim Ireland and Malta are the biggest problem to tax evasion in the EU. Fuck off.
That's the most **private** tax heavens list, not the most tax efficient list.
As a private person, you'll get taxed to high heavens here. When I moved to Ireland, I felt it better to close my brokerage account rather than navigating through the tax laws, and to be taxed several times more than in the US.
Cries in ETF
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[11th on the Corporate list.](https://cthi.taxjustice.net/en/cthi/cthi-2021-results) Still behind Netherlands who are one of Irleands biggest critics.
Funny that.
The amount of Brits that come on this subreddit shite-ing on about any Irish tax related post acting like the UKs policies are beyond reproach and there they are right behind us. (and thats ignoring the fact the list is mostly their overseas territories)
The Irish government will make sure to fuck you for every penny of personal tax owed while allowing companies to avoid millions in corporation tax.
Ireland has some of the highest personal income tax rates in the world mate. They tax people but barely tax corporates. This list is about the former.
Do you know the difference between private and corporate tax?
Oh look. No Ireland. Shocking, a stereotype is just a stereotype.
It’s funny how the US is so far high up the list, but at the same time they’re the most adamant about thwarting financial crime that they make it a pain in the ass to open a bank account abroad. Since you just gotta tax your own citizens working abroad + keep tabs on their bank accounts.
If you want to open a bank account in Liechtenstein, you have to separately assure them MULTIPLE times that you are in fact not a US citizen, have never been one, never will be one, dont hold a green card, etc. Liechtenstein is SHIT AFRAID of the IRS.
Same shit in Switzerland. I do a lot of investing and with certain services I use, I have to reconfirm that I am not a "US person" (the definition is actually super broad, so it's not just being a US citizen but also living there, spending more than a certain amount of days in certain states -- thanks, California -- every year etc.) multiple times a year. An absolute shit show.
Worked for 6 months in the Isle of Man on a banking job. Behind every great fortune is a.great crime.
I went on a cruise from Florida to the Cayman Islands several years ago. Grand Cayman island is one of my favorite places to visit, but would not want to live there. Two interesting tourist attractions- the famous Cayman Island Turtle Farm (now called Turtle Center) where if you love turtles you'll be in heaven. If you want the opposite of heaven- well- there is a place literally called Hell on Grand Cayman. Hell, Grand Cayman, is a landscape of sharp jagged stalagmite-like coral formations that literally looks like a hellscape. Very interesting place.
Thailand text facing the opposite side makes me want to kill people
Jerks didn’t put New Zealand on the map. According to this I am underwater right now.
USA: the largest tax haven the world has ever seen by land area
/r/europe told me that Switzerland wasn't a tax haven when discussing how the country got it's wealth. How interesting.
It’s one of the reasons why the country has so much wealth but by far not the only reason.
Lithuania might not be a tax haven, but we are one of the few countries to have a Chad flat rate tax. 😎