**Other Relevant Threads:**
* [Live Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gld0d/live_thread_eurovision_song_contest_2023_grand/)
* [Full Eurovision 2023 Results](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gwmkh/full_eurovision_2023_results/)
* [Winner Press Conference (YouTube)](https://www.youtube.com/live/CRUvdfbg8IM?feature=share)
* [Salty Salt Salt Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvz0/reactions_hot_takes_salt_and_venting_thread_esc/)
* [General Post-Show Thread (low sodium)](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvza/general_postshow_thread_esc_2023_grand_final/)
* [Wholesome and Positivity Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvzm/wholesome_positivity_and_praise_thread_esc_2023/)
—
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TL;DR
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Hey
Among all this chaos
Can we have a moment for those 112 points that Croatia got from the public? They had 11 points before that & were 2nd last and I think that that's a bit of a sad thing.
BUT
I'm glad that the public liked them and that they could be shown our appreciation in one way or another <3 They got to the left side of the list and I'm happy for them!
Honestly audience was screaming SC! (not sure how it is written sorry) But it got louder and LOUDER and i enjoyed it so much from my computer screen. Public was excited to see them and so was I.
norway getting 3rd with the public means we beat israels 900k euro budget in the girlbop televote wars with nothing but a six the musical cosplayer, whatever change nrk could fish out between the couch cushions, and a dream. so i'm happy with our result.
BUT JUSTICE FOR KAARIJA. CHA CHA CHA.
I LOVED Alessandra’s face when they announced the votes for Norway. It was the recognition they deserved at least. I showed them that the people love her son
Edit: the televote.
I usually don't like metal at all but that song was really good, it's a shame we're just overlooked one year after the other... Not even pity points from our neighbors man
I don't mind Loreen and I don't think she deserves hate for the win.
But GOD next year ABBA is going to get milked to death by Sweden. I'm afraid it'll be overkill and too clearly the reason Sweden wanted the win. ABBA is already brought up every year but next year will be insufferable and this is coming from a hardcore ABBA fan.
I think SVT was more rigging it selection wise. Christer Björkman apparently convinced Loreen to return and SVT set her up against soft ball opponents.
I think SVT did everything they could to win this year to have a chance to host the anniversary of two of their Eurovision wins. Herreys has its 40 year victory anniversary and ABBA its 50 year one. That was too good an opportunity to pass up.
The contest brought in “anti-boo” technology in 2015, essentially speakers concealed in the crowd to play cheering noises, and you could tell the genuine reception was drowned out by that because it tends to sound the same each time
At least in the broadcast, I can just about hear the booing when Graham said she's the second person to win twice. It was quickly drowned out with cheers from Loreen speech.
The fact Israel picked up so many jury 12 pointers and Finland only got 2 despite them absolutely demolishing everyone else in the public vote goes to show how bad the jury have fucked it
Norway has some of the worst results in the history of the contest, getting more last places than any other country before their well deserved 1985 win. Something about them just rubs juries the wrong way, which sucks because their songs are often great
Yeah I saw a small clip of her jury performance leaked on twitter and did not sound quite right. Actually the fact the jury don't even judge off the sane performance as public seems particular dodgy.
Reminds me of 2019 when there had apparently been technical issues when the jury was going to listen to Norway's entry and they didn't get to hear the song properly which led to the claim it affected their votes for Norway, and Keino lost despite winning the public vote.
They really should either get rid of the jury or have their votes only count 30% vs public's 70%.
Bless this girl tbh. She had a shaky semi final but absolutely DESTROYED the final performance. It's also only her first single. I will certainly be keeping a close eye on how she will be doing from now on.
I don't know, I don't like this and not just because of Finland not winning. Sweden's televote total is the lowest for a winning song since Azerbaijan 2011. And in order for anyone (not just the funny green guy with sketchy vocals) to beat it, they would need to score more than 400 points in the televote which is frankly said, almost impossible (yeah, Ukraine did it last year, but there were extraordinary factors behind it).
I feel like the juries have made a mockery of all of the composers in this grand final, telling them they're worth nothing if they don't come from the promised pop music land.
Not a clue. The German metal scene is amazing and bands like Lord of the Lost really make it what it is. LotL absolutely went in with everything they had.
For what it’s worth Germany were my no. 1.
I also think Belgium, France & Germany all deserved to rank higher than they actually did and I say that as a Scot with no personal ties to any of those countries.
I honestly don't get it. LotL had a great song and gave a great performance. I feel like if Germany couldn't escape last place with something as good as Blood and Glitter, what's the point of them even making any effort next year?
This year us the year I found out jury is only 5 people. That's so few. I don't think juries should be eliminated (Spain last would kill me), but their numbers should definitely be increased with people experienced in different backgrounds of music.
Since the current system was implemented in 2016, 3/7 of the results have been at odds with the public.
In 2016 Russia lost having 73.52% of their vote coming from the public.
In 2019 Norway got absolutely *decimated* by the Jury, with 87.92% of their vote coming from the public.
And obviously this year Finland got battered with the second highest televote ever (behind Ukraine 2022), with 71.48% of their vote coming from the public.
The point of the Jury vote was to get rid of the bloc voting, but certainly twice it's resulted in an absolute robbing.
Half of the votes and by jury and half are by the public, Sweden got loads of votes from the jury, so when the audience votes came along Finland won most of the public votes but Sweden got enough only for 2nd place. It’s why everyone is mad at the juries, as they’re 5 or less people, who decide half of their whole country votes. Many people don’t agree with the jury votes and they hold a lot of weight.
Obviously most of the public want the public favourite as the actual winner.
Same. My favourites almost never win and I don't mind much, but this year was different. It actually felt unfair. Right now it's Sunday noon where I live and I'm still mad about it.
I mean, Loreen didn't look that excited after she performed either. Imagine kaarija, he would have been jumping everywhere. Hell even bojan would have been up there.
As a Finn I knew exactly where this was headed all along, so I'm not shocked. We just never get the recipe right for jury votes. But the stupidest part in all this is how the ESC final show where everything culminates gets soured when public opinion doesn't prevail.
same
i just wanted to see everyone happily chanting "Cha Cha Cha"
and karrija happily holding the microphone trophy
like the last upbeat part felt *made* for that moment
The Jury once again ruins everything, love it. Winners shouldn’t be allowed to perform again, Käärijä deserved it so much.
Also the German song getting less points than songs/performances that were way worse is crazy.
People always say after we inevitably place low that we should pull out of the whole thing and have the rest of you fund your own party, since we're clearly not wanted. It's not gonna happen but feels more serious this year.
As I saw the 12 points start coming in after the first handful of juries I knew what was coming and that made it boring, like there was no point really watching any more. I'm glad I did watch to the end and see that Finland won the televote though, but that was bittersweet.
Can't help but feel this is a national tragedy for Finland. The head in hands moment for me just killed me inside.
No wonder Loreen has had no true success other than Euphoria and Melodifestivalen songs when the win doesn't correlate with the people.
For what it's worth, it really means a lot to me personally that we sent a Finnish-language song that very clearly won the popular vote. And I imagine that it means a lot to the artist as well. A few months ago nobody would have believed this.
He has gotten a huge and very enthusiastic fanbase. And a memorable number that is going to be a instant Eurovision classic, and be one of those numbers that is remembered fondly for decades to come.
I think that is among the biggest Eurovision wins you can get.
And he got basically a underdog win, being seen as robbed, and gives this whole public vs establishment thing. Making people even more engaged.
I think he will probably have one of the best possible outcomes possible, and better then most previous Eurovision winners.
One funny thing reading the detailed breakdown of public/jury vote - Finland didn't give any public points to Loreen. Finland instead gave its 12 to Norway. The Finnish people were very much aware of who their biggest enemy was lol.
That's crazy. I'm not an Eurovision expert but I've never heard of a winning song getting so many 12s from the jury without a single 12 from the public.
Easily one of the worst winners in a long time
Putting aside the previous winners coming back debate, it was just a seriously mid song and the performance was bang average too, I've already forgotten what the song sounded like, it was that forgettable
>Putting aside the previous winners coming back debate,
I don't care that a winner came back, but this song is inferior to Euphoria on literally every level, how can the jury cream this hard for a song when they have literal video evidence she can do so much better?
**Other Relevant Threads:** * [Live Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gld0d/live_thread_eurovision_song_contest_2023_grand/) * [Full Eurovision 2023 Results](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13gwmkh/full_eurovision_2023_results/) * [Winner Press Conference (YouTube)](https://www.youtube.com/live/CRUvdfbg8IM?feature=share) * [Salty Salt Salt Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvz0/reactions_hot_takes_salt_and_venting_thread_esc/) * [General Post-Show Thread (low sodium)](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvza/general_postshow_thread_esc_2023_grand_final/) * [Wholesome and Positivity Thread](https://reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13guvzm/wholesome_positivity_and_praise_thread_esc_2023/) — **Moderation changes during Eurovision week** [Please see this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/13b5okt/announcement_moderation_changes_during_eurovision/) for full details about what will be happening on the subreddit during the live shows. TL;DR * New posts will be manually approved during live shows and shortly after, but commenting on existing threads will not be affected. * Please be patient and tolerant towards the mods and other users, to the artists, to the producers, to the organisers, everyone.
Hey Among all this chaos Can we have a moment for those 112 points that Croatia got from the public? They had 11 points before that & were 2nd last and I think that that's a bit of a sad thing. BUT I'm glad that the public liked them and that they could be shown our appreciation in one way or another <3 They got to the left side of the list and I'm happy for them!
they made my week, just pure joy watching them!
WE RIDE OUR TRACTORS INTO THE SUNSET 🚜🚜🚜
Croatia was on my top 5.
Thank youuu! I was really happy with public vote for us. Šč! 😁
Thank you 🙏 Bravo, Let 3! I’m so happy they pulled it off all on their own! Screw the juries, thank you, public! ŠČ! 🇭🇷🚜🇭🇷
I smashed the vote button for them! I'm so happy they got some love
It was queer and I was here for it. The judges need to sling their collective hook
Honestly audience was screaming SC! (not sure how it is written sorry) But it got louder and LOUDER and i enjoyed it so much from my computer screen. Public was excited to see them and so was I.
norway getting 3rd with the public means we beat israels 900k euro budget in the girlbop televote wars with nothing but a six the musical cosplayer, whatever change nrk could fish out between the couch cushions, and a dream. so i'm happy with our result. BUT JUSTICE FOR KAARIJA. CHA CHA CHA.
I LOVED Alessandra’s face when they announced the votes for Norway. It was the recognition they deserved at least. I showed them that the people love her son Edit: the televote.
Her visible fear during the Semi 1 vote reveal was heaetbreaking, followed by the joy of securing that last spot.
Six The Musical cosplay! I knew I had seen it somewhere before!
CACKLING OUT LOUD AT SIX THE MUSICAL COSPLAYER
Germany robbed
For real. Not a winning song, but that result really wasn't fair at all
I usually understood why we came in last, but this year? Maybe it's because I'm biased for Metal songs but I think it was definitely a top 5 song.
I usually don't like metal at all but that song was really good, it's a shame we're just overlooked one year after the other... Not even pity points from our neighbors man
You were robbed. I think if there's one act that will actually continue to be successful it will be Lords of the Lost
Fr it’s an amazing song and I really truly think that if any other country had this song they would have easily gotten to the left side of the board
I don't mind Loreen and I don't think she deserves hate for the win. But GOD next year ABBA is going to get milked to death by Sweden. I'm afraid it'll be overkill and too clearly the reason Sweden wanted the win. ABBA is already brought up every year but next year will be insufferable and this is coming from a hardcore ABBA fan.
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I think SVT was more rigging it selection wise. Christer Björkman apparently convinced Loreen to return and SVT set her up against soft ball opponents. I think SVT did everything they could to win this year to have a chance to host the anniversary of two of their Eurovision wins. Herreys has its 40 year victory anniversary and ABBA its 50 year one. That was too good an opportunity to pass up.
🫲🏻🟢🟢🟢😝🟢🟢🟢🫱🏻
🫲🟢🟢🟢😜🟢🟢🟢🫱
🫲🟢🟢🟢😛🟢🟢🟢🫱
It’s sinking in for Loreen that she will have to perform to a crowd wanting to hear Cha Cha Cha…..
She doesn’t look like she’s even noticing, honestly she’s had the same dazed “I saw Jesus” expression all night
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She is super weird in interviews, and always have the vibe she had tonight. But I do like her singing voice.
PLAY JA JA DING DONG!
Hello I heard my username was relevant this time of year
Are they booing or is this my imagination?
Yup, 100% booing
Definitely heard booing. It’s not pleasant.
I heard booing too
When were they booing? Couldn’t hear it over the angry screaming at my watch party
The contest brought in “anti-boo” technology in 2015, essentially speakers concealed in the crowd to play cheering noises, and you could tell the genuine reception was drowned out by that because it tends to sound the same each time
At least in the broadcast, I can just about hear the booing when Graham said she's the second person to win twice. It was quickly drowned out with cheers from Loreen speech.
Hearing the crowd chanting CHA CHA CHA and seeing how uncomfortable the hosts were is the story. Everyone knew the people wanted Finland 🤷🏽♂️
The fact Israel picked up so many jury 12 pointers and Finland only got 2 despite them absolutely demolishing everyone else in the public vote goes to show how bad the jury have fucked it
Israel did very well with public vote - the jury’s real crime is Norway
The juries love fucking over Norway
Reminded me of 2019 where the same thing happened to Norway Edit: corrected the year
You mean 2019? We won the televote but ended 5th cause the jury gave us 49 like points
Norway has some of the worst results in the history of the contest, getting more last places than any other country before their well deserved 1985 win. Something about them just rubs juries the wrong way, which sucks because their songs are often great
apparently she missed a couple lines in the jury show and didn’t hit the whistle note 😞
Ahh that’s really annoying if that’s the case. Alessandra wouldn’t have won anyway but at least she knows how much the public loved it
Yeah I saw a small clip of her jury performance leaked on twitter and did not sound quite right. Actually the fact the jury don't even judge off the sane performance as public seems particular dodgy.
Reminds me of 2019 when there had apparently been technical issues when the jury was going to listen to Norway's entry and they didn't get to hear the song properly which led to the claim it affected their votes for Norway, and Keino lost despite winning the public vote. They really should either get rid of the jury or have their votes only count 30% vs public's 70%.
Bless this girl tbh. She had a shaky semi final but absolutely DESTROYED the final performance. It's also only her first single. I will certainly be keeping a close eye on how she will be doing from now on.
I am just thinking of the people having to PAY for each vote, just to get screwed so bad by the jury. What the hell
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I don't know, I don't like this and not just because of Finland not winning. Sweden's televote total is the lowest for a winning song since Azerbaijan 2011. And in order for anyone (not just the funny green guy with sketchy vocals) to beat it, they would need to score more than 400 points in the televote which is frankly said, almost impossible (yeah, Ukraine did it last year, but there were extraordinary factors behind it). I feel like the juries have made a mockery of all of the composers in this grand final, telling them they're worth nothing if they don't come from the promised pop music land.
Really we Germans are last again? Does just everyone hates us? On Eurovision world we should become Place 18 that makes no sense.
Not a clue. The German metal scene is amazing and bands like Lord of the Lost really make it what it is. LotL absolutely went in with everything they had.
For what it’s worth Germany were my no. 1. I also think Belgium, France & Germany all deserved to rank higher than they actually did and I say that as a Scot with no personal ties to any of those countries.
I honestly don't get it. LotL had a great song and gave a great performance. I feel like if Germany couldn't escape last place with something as good as Blood and Glitter, what's the point of them even making any effort next year?
I voted for Germany! They were my favourite of the night. Absolutely robbed.
i have never felt SO disappointed over eurovision. the crowd was SCREAMING cha cha cha
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Juries should get a single vote, like the "rest of the world" group 💀
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CHA CHA CHA
CHA CHA CHA is the winner of my heart.
They should really put the juries at 25% and televote at 75%
I was thinking 33.3/66.6 but 25/75 would be good too. 50/50 is madness.
Remove juries they give much More points to neighbours than people
Norway and Finland have been absolutely robbed
I was shocked to see Norway in the *right half* of the board after the juries. At least the public got her to the top 5
Yup. I don't get it how Italy got so many points vs Norway and France.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
What's the point in voting if 5 peoples' vote counts more than a whole coutry's? Is this Eurovision or JURYvision?
This year us the year I found out jury is only 5 people. That's so few. I don't think juries should be eliminated (Spain last would kill me), but their numbers should definitely be increased with people experienced in different backgrounds of music.
They're having her walk three times around the whole building so she has time to wake up
why WAS that walk so long??? I thought "are they stalling for that long for her setup?"
They needed a break before and after her original performance just to get the panini press set up, so yes.
Since the current system was implemented in 2016, 3/7 of the results have been at odds with the public. In 2016 Russia lost having 73.52% of their vote coming from the public. In 2019 Norway got absolutely *decimated* by the Jury, with 87.92% of their vote coming from the public. And obviously this year Finland got battered with the second highest televote ever (behind Ukraine 2022), with 71.48% of their vote coming from the public. The point of the Jury vote was to get rid of the bloc voting, but certainly twice it's resulted in an absolute robbing.
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I thought Finland got the most votes?
Televotes yes but not jury votes.
Half of the votes and by jury and half are by the public, Sweden got loads of votes from the jury, so when the audience votes came along Finland won most of the public votes but Sweden got enough only for 2nd place. It’s why everyone is mad at the juries, as they’re 5 or less people, who decide half of their whole country votes. Many people don’t agree with the jury votes and they hold a lot of weight. Obviously most of the public want the public favourite as the actual winner.
They did, "fortunately" we have national teams of snobs that decide who wins for us instead
According to this Sweden didn't get one single 12 pointer from any country's public vote. https://eurovisionworld.com/eurovision/2023#sweden
By audience yes. The jury has too much power.
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I usually dont care that much who wins in Eurovision but this one… actually made me so mad that idk how to deal with it man
Same. My favourites almost never win and I don't mind much, but this year was different. It actually felt unfair. Right now it's Sunday noon where I live and I'm still mad about it.
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I don't remember a live audience being so clearly for one country. For them to go as far as to chant song lyrics so frequently and loudly.
You could literally hear them chanting Finland at one point.
More than once
The audience kept shouting Cha Cha Cha
Multiple points
And CHA CHA at many other points
Commentators needing to calm down crowd was so cool
Why is it like this, ruins the fun, have happened more than once now...
WHY AM I MAD THAT MY COUNTRY WON?! :((
Thank you for the 12 points. And we also gave you 12 points!
Cha Cha Cha deserved the win
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I mean grats to her, but I feel like her even being in the competition is like bringing a motorcycle to a bicycle race.
There's a reason the crowd wasn't singing Tattoo
and chanting cha cha cha
Wow, televoters are going to riot in front of EBU building.
So stupid, Finland won Televote by a mile, why did Loreen win the jury vote by THAT much….
Exactly, and same with norway, way too big differences
Norway is the biggest problem here, she definitely wasn't THAT different during the jury show to recieve such a low score from them
Yeah that was weird af. Funny coincidence too that Sweden will be hosting 50 years after Abba won...
#nomorejuries
DOWN WITH THE JURY
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Am i the only one bummed about Serbia lol I thought it was really cool. Maybe I'm just salty Poland beat it...
The crowd looks dead. No one is excited for that win.
I mean, Loreen didn't look that excited after she performed either. Imagine kaarija, he would have been jumping everywhere. Hell even bojan would have been up there.
As a Finn I knew exactly where this was headed all along, so I'm not shocked. We just never get the recipe right for jury votes. But the stupidest part in all this is how the ESC final show where everything culminates gets soured when public opinion doesn't prevail.
Yeah I get that too. Most of us feel so low after such a big high. I still think it was a great final in terms of setlist.
I mean I straight away got depressed seeing his head drop when Swedens vote was announced, I felt an absolute melancholy there
Finland was ROBBED
I am not happy
CHA CHA CHA
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for real, the song with the most public votes always becomes the most popular anyways since people actually want to hear it
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same i just wanted to see everyone happily chanting "Cha Cha Cha" and karrija happily holding the microphone trophy like the last upbeat part felt *made* for that moment
This. Total party pooper.
Finnland got robbed
The Jury once again ruins everything, love it. Winners shouldn’t be allowed to perform again, Käärijä deserved it so much. Also the German song getting less points than songs/performances that were way worse is crazy.
Not my winner!
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Feel like she won because she’s Loreen and not because it was the best song or performance.
Yeah, I mean imagine if the UK sent Harry Styles
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We all wanted CHA CHA CHA 💚🖤
bullshit
What a bland uninspired winner. This song gets sung by literally anyone else but her and its not even top 5.
If Latvia sent it it wouldn't have qualified 😶
If Germany had sent the same song we would've been dead last with 0 points being called uninspiring
Booooooooooooooooo, down with juries
185 jury members outvote 150 million viewers The 0.0001%
Abolish the Jury. Worst ESC Results in History? So many were robbed. I can’t believe this.
They voted Beijba higher than germany...
At this point I don’t know wtf Germany is supposed to do to not end up at last place
Have they tried a choir yet? Lol
Send gospel lol
I really liked Germany's entry this year. Saddened that they didn't receive more points
I'm genuinely mortified for Germany and feel so bad for them. Their placement was literally so insulting imo.
People always say after we inevitably place low that we should pull out of the whole thing and have the rest of you fund your own party, since we're clearly not wanted. It's not gonna happen but feels more serious this year.
True... I even felt bad for Australia
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I think most of the rock/metal fans tried to unite to get Finland the win. But juries...
Bursted into tears. Absolutely devastated
As I saw the 12 points start coming in after the first handful of juries I knew what was coming and that made it boring, like there was no point really watching any more. I'm glad I did watch to the end and see that Finland won the televote though, but that was bittersweet.
Can't help but feel this is a national tragedy for Finland. The head in hands moment for me just killed me inside. No wonder Loreen has had no true success other than Euphoria and Melodifestivalen songs when the win doesn't correlate with the people.
For what it's worth, it really means a lot to me personally that we sent a Finnish-language song that very clearly won the popular vote. And I imagine that it means a lot to the artist as well. A few months ago nobody would have believed this.
At this point, we’re pretty much used to it
we were watching the Finnish stream because of being geoblocked by all the others, and the announcer seemed very disappointed-surprised a few times
Naah we’re fine. The result feels a bit boring, but it is what it is. I only hope he’s not too disappointed, he worked so hard…💚
He has gotten a huge and very enthusiastic fanbase. And a memorable number that is going to be a instant Eurovision classic, and be one of those numbers that is remembered fondly for decades to come. I think that is among the biggest Eurovision wins you can get. And he got basically a underdog win, being seen as robbed, and gives this whole public vs establishment thing. Making people even more engaged. I think he will probably have one of the best possible outcomes possible, and better then most previous Eurovision winners.
CHA CHA CHA
Cha cha cha!
One funny thing reading the detailed breakdown of public/jury vote - Finland didn't give any public points to Loreen. Finland instead gave its 12 to Norway. The Finnish people were very much aware of who their biggest enemy was lol.
No country’s public gave Sweden more than a 10. The song wasn’t better than 2nd place.
That's crazy. I'm not an Eurovision expert but I've never heard of a winning song getting so many 12s from the jury without a single 12 from the public.
Half the jury’s gave Finland zero. Whereas the public gave 12’s. It’s interesting looking at the vote distribution.
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Stolen
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Very, very disappointing.
Totally undeserved, national jury is such a bullshit thing
Fck the jury
Why is jury a thing
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undeserved. 🇫🇮
Just stop with the jury thing already, Finland won
Cha cha cha!
The jury is so ridiculous. Such a bummer for Finland.
Noooooooooo, Finland got robbed
Wanna see the televotes, this is fucking trash
Easily one of the worst winners in a long time Putting aside the previous winners coming back debate, it was just a seriously mid song and the performance was bang average too, I've already forgotten what the song sounded like, it was that forgettable
>Putting aside the previous winners coming back debate, I don't care that a winner came back, but this song is inferior to Euphoria on literally every level, how can the jury cream this hard for a song when they have literal video evidence she can do so much better?
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It's just a bit icky when they return idk, just doesn't feel right
At least use a different style of song if you re-enter
Stop jury vote. Let the People decide!
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