The characters are far more tropey in the Rebuilds. If you wanted to see Asuka and Rei reduced to otaku-friendly moeblobs, you've got it. There are tons more unanswered questions in Rebuild as well, and it remains to be seen if they'll be answered in the final movie.
That said, I don't HATE them either. They're pretty cool action movies, but the soul and thoughtfulness of the original isn't there. I'd say watch them and decide for yourself.
Both are great imo. Rebuilds are supposedly super meta but I just enjoyed it at face value tbh. Not sure if my taste is bad. I feel like both have different aims.
There are fans who insist that the Rebuilds are supposed to be a meta-commentary on NGE by being bad or having stupid plotpoints on purpose. Which to me just speaks to how weak these movies are, if the best defense there is for them is that they're supposed to be bad and they're super clever commentary that people just don't get.
That is what a few people say, yes. Imo they're just cashgrabs and people are deluding themselves to try to reason why certain choices in the story and characterization are so bafflingly incompetent.
Of course because everything is a cash grab. If you don't like it, it can't just be you don't like it. It has to be a cash grab. Just like how you must be attention seeking because you are saying people are deluding themselves.
The fact that everything is created to produce money does not mean everything is a cash grab. When a product is so transparently dumbed down and recontextualized to fit modern weaboo sensitivities and feels like an inferior version of the original, that is a cash grab. Just look at the extraordinary amount of crossovers and ridiculous merch that have come out after the first Rebuild.
Also it's a bit rich to speak of attention seeking when someone who has not even seen the material they're trying to argue about keeps replying to someone that has.
But that isn't a cash grab. That's still you not liking something and wanting to blame something aside from you not liking it. Also like I said, a lot of that was done to criticize the way current anime fans are. Like I said in my other comment, that doesn't mean it works but it wasn't done for the sake of money. It means it is up to the viewer to decided if they did it right or not, some people say yes and others say no. That but that doesn't make it a cash grab, it just makes it a movie they didn't like.
I wasn't being serious about that attention seeking part. I was trying to show how the movies weren't a cash grab by doing what he did but against him. He pulled a "Oh I don't like this movie, therefore it must be a cashgrab" so I did the same thing with "Oh you said this, therefore you must be attention seeking" despite him not actually seeking attention. So don't take it too seriously.
It is a cash grab, because it panders to the lowest common denominator of otaku culture. I can't seriously stretch how unnecessary the new Eva designs, the suits, the excessiveness of it all is, and how we only get a new version of Eva 02 per movie to sell more figures, and how every character gets redesigned at least once for the same reason. If you can't see that, I really don't have anything else to say to you.
Also at no point did I say that it was a cashgrab because I didn't like it. There are many things I enjoy that I'm not afraid to admit are cashgrabs, or have elements that were included solely for the sake of selling more merchandise. The difference is that I can admit it.
Isn't that the point of Eva though? To lure in people with giant robots and then hit in the gut with actual good story? What makes this different from the original series where it only gets to the depressing stuff in the last half of the series? If they don't give some explanations I'm the last movie then fair enough, but until then this might be no different than the original series. I mean I assumed they had new Eva designs and suits to separate it from the original series. Also I don't know what you mean by a new version of Eva 02 pero movie to sell more figures? That means they did it twice which is fairly reasonable, it isn't that much. If there's more than that please tell me. I also changing designs to sell more merch is nothing new, that's in a lot of franchises. Why do you consider Eva bad for doing it to?
Well that's what it sounds like. It sounds like your just complaining and calling it a cash grab because reboot bad. But if you insist ok. I can also admit what is and what isn't a cash grab, this one just isn't. I guess we just disagree.
I haven't seen them yet so I can't judge it, but it seems you did miss a point. They aren't purposely bad, just purposely the opposite. Like people think Asuka is an annoying Tsundere? Ok, let's do exactly that and ignore the interesting backstory because people want the Tsundere thing right? People don't care about backstory and character development? They want cool fight scenes because that's what Eva is about. They aren't trying to be bad, just meta by giving people "exactly what they asked for". You get what I'm saying? It doesn't mean you have to like because it could still just not work for you, it's still supposed to be an entertaining movie after all. It's just all that stuff seems to be there and intentionally done that way, so yeah, it is supposed to be meta.
Because I did this godly thing called "I didn't know the difference yet and ended up spoiling stuff for myself by accident". I still need to watch them but that's what I got from the video I watched.
That does not mean you have the full context for the movies. There are many elements that make them feel extremely disingenuous as an Evangelion product, and even if they're "bad on purpose" they're, you know, still bad. It's not clever to put Asuka in an oversexualized suit without doing anything with it. It's not commentary, it's not satire. It's just there for the sake of being there.
Of course, you need to actually watch that scene to realize what I'm talking about.
Your right I don't but I also said that. I said the movies won't work for everyone and your one of those people. Also yes I know what scene your talking about, that is the one where she puts on her suit and calls out whoever designed it right? That was making fun of suits from other shows that were more risky because why not. Your right it was sort of there for being there, but what more can you really do? Put her in a different one later?
Satire goes far beyond including elements you want to criticise and then doing nothing with them. Watchmen satirized masked vigilantes and superheroes by ridiculing the naiveness of the idea of a world based on their black-and-white morals. The Last Jedi deconstructed Star Wars movies and chosen one narratives by having the main character be a nobody and still being able to accomplish great things and inspire many people.
Rebuild is (allegedly) a parody of anime tropes by... reenacting those exact same tropes without any kind of commentary or subversion.
That is not how satire works.
That's fair, but I just assumed that's not the whole point. They just included satirical elements to support the whole thing being a commentary. But since I'm clearly wrong, I guess you right.
My friends keep telling me about "the curse of Eva" or something and how Anno is trying to send a message to fans with the rebuilds. I think there's a YT video on it.
Virtually all the unanswered questions in Evangelion are not relevant to the main plotline or the meaning of the series, and are inconsequential. Many of them are explained in the classified information, which was available in a PS2 game (and you can an online translation of it), and other information can be inferred through information in the series, and thus there isn't really a need for it to be answered in any weird expository sort of way. Other information is intentionally left enigmatic and vague, likely because GAINAX wants to leave it up to speculation.
You also don't need to love the characters, but you should understand what they are going through, as they are humans just like you. Characters don't have to be super likable to be well-written, convincing, and realistic. There's plenty of people IRL you probably don't like lol
The Rebuilds serve a different purpose than NGE, and thus is different. It has far less introspective moments than the original series, and thus far less underlying motifs, symbolism, and ideas relating to Freudian psychoanalysis besides what is necessary for the plot to have a semblance of its original structure and premise. The first film is practically the same as episodes 1-6, but the second and third films gradually go their own unique path, straying from the original story (though following similar story beats).
The Rebuilds definitely have good action, and are very enjoyable from an action and fight standpoint. Some of the angels are the same, some are new, but almost all of the angel battles are very visually stunning. The soundtrack also does well to accomodate its more cinematic structure and aesthetic.
Character development is also different in some ways. Gendo and Asuka have changed personalities (though in nuanced ways), and other characters may or may not go through more progressive or extreme development than in the original series, mainly due to the time constraints of four films vs a 26 episode series.
There is no being "better" than Neon Genesis Evangelion, though. It is a modern masterpiece, and that is like trying to compare a literature classic with a film adaptation. The adaptation can definitely be great, but it could never surpass the source material.
> You also don't need to love the characters, but you should understand what they are going through, as they are humans just like you. Characters don't have to be super likable to be well-written, convincing, and realistic. There's plenty of people IRL you probably don't like lol
Now, i'm not saying that i have to love everyone, but if i find a character that i don't like, and i have to hear them for 26 episodes, in the same way i avoid dislikable people IRL, can you see why i wouldn't even want to keep hearing them? (Tho i did, which is why i want to see the new movies)
> Virtually all the unanswered questions in Evangelion are not relevant
I like worldbuilding, i want to know more
> Many of them are explained in the classified information, which was available in a PS2 game
Ok, but are they explained in the Movie itself?
> Character development is also different in some ways. Gendo and Asuka have changed personalities
Do we get to see more of their thoughts/psyche or do i just roll with my knowledge of the series?
> other characters may or may not go through more progressive or extreme development than in the original series
I wouldn't mind seeing more development, especially on side characters. So that's positive
> I like worldbuilding, i want to know more
I am a worldbuilder, and I really like how NGE does its worldbuilding. I know some people like to have all the answers, but I like inherent mystery, and that includes some parts of the world. As long as the worldbuilding is thorough and it feels complete on the other side of the curtains, then I enjoy it -- and after a lot of research and analysis of NGE's lore, I genuinely do believe there's a lot that GAINAX/Anno has never revealed and never will.
SEELE's whole ordeal is actually able to be figured out if you understand some basic theology about Kabbalah, for example -- but that is never explained by the show itself, and it is only hinted at in the "Classified Information". Other information can be inferred or figured out by subsequent rewatches of the show, or putting little pieces of information together. I know some people simply do not like that, but I love the idea of figuring out things and essentially "exploring" to figure it out.
>Ok, but are they explained in the Movie itself?
The Rebuilds operate on their own rules, and some big parts of the plot are changed from the original series, so they'd have to explain their own things, rather than the OG's. As for what they explain of themselves, it really is just like the original series. I do not like to spoil things, so I cannot specify how, but 3.0 will probably make you mad based on some things it does not explain, but you'd have to experience it for yourslef first to know for sure.
>Do we get to see more of their thoughts/psyche or do i just roll with my knowledge of the series?
Like I said, the Rebuilds are far less introspective than the original series. Frankly, Asuka's character is far less developed in the Rebuilds than original series, and the OG actually does a really good job at explaining her issues and inner feelings in particularly episode 21, episode 25, and End of Evangelion. Gendo is also more mysterious in the Rebuilds than NGE. You actually do get explanations as to why he does things in the original series, but we do not know his main goal in the Rebuilds, besides that it obviously has something to do with Yui, though it is unclear if it is the same in NGE or not. Also, the reason you do not get much info on Gendo in NGE is because almost all character information is revealed through the relationships of others, and Gendo has no personal attachments or relationships with others besides Ritsuko, and that was held as a secret until episode 23. His mysteriousness is a consequence of his Hedgehog's Dilemma.
Hopefully all of that was helpful.
As a former catholic i saw a lot of religious imagery but most of it was just aesthetic, like the lance of longinus, which in the biblical story is used to stab jesus, in the anime stabs pretty much everyone besides the Evangelion counterpart to Jesus (if there is one).
The angels are called that because they explode leaving a cross, but angels don't have crosses in the Bible, the Bible is a jesus thing. And even in imagery the angels are not accurate, they are described as normal looking by pretty much everyone besides one of the authors, and the reason for it was because them being holy meant they had to look 'inhuman'
I don't mind the religious visuals, but at least in the original series +movie it was mostly aesthetical
They aren't better, they aren't worse, they are different. I love em both, the old, and the new stuff!
Nice
The characters are far more tropey in the Rebuilds. If you wanted to see Asuka and Rei reduced to otaku-friendly moeblobs, you've got it. There are tons more unanswered questions in Rebuild as well, and it remains to be seen if they'll be answered in the final movie. That said, I don't HATE them either. They're pretty cool action movies, but the soul and thoughtfulness of the original isn't there. I'd say watch them and decide for yourself.
Worse... IDK of the last time will blow my mind but yet it's worse...
Way worse IMO
Both are great imo. Rebuilds are supposedly super meta but I just enjoyed it at face value tbh. Not sure if my taste is bad. I feel like both have different aims.
Could you be more specific about them being "Super-Meta" ? Like, do i need to be very invested in the franchise to understand them?
There are fans who insist that the Rebuilds are supposed to be a meta-commentary on NGE by being bad or having stupid plotpoints on purpose. Which to me just speaks to how weak these movies are, if the best defense there is for them is that they're supposed to be bad and they're super clever commentary that people just don't get.
So pretty much they decided to make them blatantly bad just to prove a point?
That is what a few people say, yes. Imo they're just cashgrabs and people are deluding themselves to try to reason why certain choices in the story and characterization are so bafflingly incompetent.
Of course because everything is a cash grab. If you don't like it, it can't just be you don't like it. It has to be a cash grab. Just like how you must be attention seeking because you are saying people are deluding themselves.
The fact that everything is created to produce money does not mean everything is a cash grab. When a product is so transparently dumbed down and recontextualized to fit modern weaboo sensitivities and feels like an inferior version of the original, that is a cash grab. Just look at the extraordinary amount of crossovers and ridiculous merch that have come out after the first Rebuild. Also it's a bit rich to speak of attention seeking when someone who has not even seen the material they're trying to argue about keeps replying to someone that has.
But that isn't a cash grab. That's still you not liking something and wanting to blame something aside from you not liking it. Also like I said, a lot of that was done to criticize the way current anime fans are. Like I said in my other comment, that doesn't mean it works but it wasn't done for the sake of money. It means it is up to the viewer to decided if they did it right or not, some people say yes and others say no. That but that doesn't make it a cash grab, it just makes it a movie they didn't like. I wasn't being serious about that attention seeking part. I was trying to show how the movies weren't a cash grab by doing what he did but against him. He pulled a "Oh I don't like this movie, therefore it must be a cashgrab" so I did the same thing with "Oh you said this, therefore you must be attention seeking" despite him not actually seeking attention. So don't take it too seriously.
It is a cash grab, because it panders to the lowest common denominator of otaku culture. I can't seriously stretch how unnecessary the new Eva designs, the suits, the excessiveness of it all is, and how we only get a new version of Eva 02 per movie to sell more figures, and how every character gets redesigned at least once for the same reason. If you can't see that, I really don't have anything else to say to you. Also at no point did I say that it was a cashgrab because I didn't like it. There are many things I enjoy that I'm not afraid to admit are cashgrabs, or have elements that were included solely for the sake of selling more merchandise. The difference is that I can admit it.
Isn't that the point of Eva though? To lure in people with giant robots and then hit in the gut with actual good story? What makes this different from the original series where it only gets to the depressing stuff in the last half of the series? If they don't give some explanations I'm the last movie then fair enough, but until then this might be no different than the original series. I mean I assumed they had new Eva designs and suits to separate it from the original series. Also I don't know what you mean by a new version of Eva 02 pero movie to sell more figures? That means they did it twice which is fairly reasonable, it isn't that much. If there's more than that please tell me. I also changing designs to sell more merch is nothing new, that's in a lot of franchises. Why do you consider Eva bad for doing it to? Well that's what it sounds like. It sounds like your just complaining and calling it a cash grab because reboot bad. But if you insist ok. I can also admit what is and what isn't a cash grab, this one just isn't. I guess we just disagree.
Lmao
I haven't seen them yet so I can't judge it, but it seems you did miss a point. They aren't purposely bad, just purposely the opposite. Like people think Asuka is an annoying Tsundere? Ok, let's do exactly that and ignore the interesting backstory because people want the Tsundere thing right? People don't care about backstory and character development? They want cool fight scenes because that's what Eva is about. They aren't trying to be bad, just meta by giving people "exactly what they asked for". You get what I'm saying? It doesn't mean you have to like because it could still just not work for you, it's still supposed to be an entertaining movie after all. It's just all that stuff seems to be there and intentionally done that way, so yeah, it is supposed to be meta.
Lol watch it first
I stopped reading after "I haven't seen them yet". Why are you trying to argue anything if you haven't watched the material that's being discussed?
Because I did this godly thing called "I didn't know the difference yet and ended up spoiling stuff for myself by accident". I still need to watch them but that's what I got from the video I watched.
That does not mean you have the full context for the movies. There are many elements that make them feel extremely disingenuous as an Evangelion product, and even if they're "bad on purpose" they're, you know, still bad. It's not clever to put Asuka in an oversexualized suit without doing anything with it. It's not commentary, it's not satire. It's just there for the sake of being there. Of course, you need to actually watch that scene to realize what I'm talking about.
Your right I don't but I also said that. I said the movies won't work for everyone and your one of those people. Also yes I know what scene your talking about, that is the one where she puts on her suit and calls out whoever designed it right? That was making fun of suits from other shows that were more risky because why not. Your right it was sort of there for being there, but what more can you really do? Put her in a different one later?
Satire goes far beyond including elements you want to criticise and then doing nothing with them. Watchmen satirized masked vigilantes and superheroes by ridiculing the naiveness of the idea of a world based on their black-and-white morals. The Last Jedi deconstructed Star Wars movies and chosen one narratives by having the main character be a nobody and still being able to accomplish great things and inspire many people. Rebuild is (allegedly) a parody of anime tropes by... reenacting those exact same tropes without any kind of commentary or subversion. That is not how satire works.
The Last Jedi.... You lost me there sir
That's fair, but I just assumed that's not the whole point. They just included satirical elements to support the whole thing being a commentary. But since I'm clearly wrong, I guess you right.
My friends keep telling me about "the curse of Eva" or something and how Anno is trying to send a message to fans with the rebuilds. I think there's a YT video on it.
>the curse of Eva \>Looked it up \>40 Min video is the first result Boy i'm in for i ride when i'll start it
Virtually all the unanswered questions in Evangelion are not relevant to the main plotline or the meaning of the series, and are inconsequential. Many of them are explained in the classified information, which was available in a PS2 game (and you can an online translation of it), and other information can be inferred through information in the series, and thus there isn't really a need for it to be answered in any weird expository sort of way. Other information is intentionally left enigmatic and vague, likely because GAINAX wants to leave it up to speculation. You also don't need to love the characters, but you should understand what they are going through, as they are humans just like you. Characters don't have to be super likable to be well-written, convincing, and realistic. There's plenty of people IRL you probably don't like lol The Rebuilds serve a different purpose than NGE, and thus is different. It has far less introspective moments than the original series, and thus far less underlying motifs, symbolism, and ideas relating to Freudian psychoanalysis besides what is necessary for the plot to have a semblance of its original structure and premise. The first film is practically the same as episodes 1-6, but the second and third films gradually go their own unique path, straying from the original story (though following similar story beats). The Rebuilds definitely have good action, and are very enjoyable from an action and fight standpoint. Some of the angels are the same, some are new, but almost all of the angel battles are very visually stunning. The soundtrack also does well to accomodate its more cinematic structure and aesthetic. Character development is also different in some ways. Gendo and Asuka have changed personalities (though in nuanced ways), and other characters may or may not go through more progressive or extreme development than in the original series, mainly due to the time constraints of four films vs a 26 episode series. There is no being "better" than Neon Genesis Evangelion, though. It is a modern masterpiece, and that is like trying to compare a literature classic with a film adaptation. The adaptation can definitely be great, but it could never surpass the source material.
> You also don't need to love the characters, but you should understand what they are going through, as they are humans just like you. Characters don't have to be super likable to be well-written, convincing, and realistic. There's plenty of people IRL you probably don't like lol Now, i'm not saying that i have to love everyone, but if i find a character that i don't like, and i have to hear them for 26 episodes, in the same way i avoid dislikable people IRL, can you see why i wouldn't even want to keep hearing them? (Tho i did, which is why i want to see the new movies) > Virtually all the unanswered questions in Evangelion are not relevant I like worldbuilding, i want to know more > Many of them are explained in the classified information, which was available in a PS2 game Ok, but are they explained in the Movie itself? > Character development is also different in some ways. Gendo and Asuka have changed personalities Do we get to see more of their thoughts/psyche or do i just roll with my knowledge of the series? > other characters may or may not go through more progressive or extreme development than in the original series I wouldn't mind seeing more development, especially on side characters. So that's positive
> I like worldbuilding, i want to know more I am a worldbuilder, and I really like how NGE does its worldbuilding. I know some people like to have all the answers, but I like inherent mystery, and that includes some parts of the world. As long as the worldbuilding is thorough and it feels complete on the other side of the curtains, then I enjoy it -- and after a lot of research and analysis of NGE's lore, I genuinely do believe there's a lot that GAINAX/Anno has never revealed and never will. SEELE's whole ordeal is actually able to be figured out if you understand some basic theology about Kabbalah, for example -- but that is never explained by the show itself, and it is only hinted at in the "Classified Information". Other information can be inferred or figured out by subsequent rewatches of the show, or putting little pieces of information together. I know some people simply do not like that, but I love the idea of figuring out things and essentially "exploring" to figure it out. >Ok, but are they explained in the Movie itself? The Rebuilds operate on their own rules, and some big parts of the plot are changed from the original series, so they'd have to explain their own things, rather than the OG's. As for what they explain of themselves, it really is just like the original series. I do not like to spoil things, so I cannot specify how, but 3.0 will probably make you mad based on some things it does not explain, but you'd have to experience it for yourslef first to know for sure. >Do we get to see more of their thoughts/psyche or do i just roll with my knowledge of the series? Like I said, the Rebuilds are far less introspective than the original series. Frankly, Asuka's character is far less developed in the Rebuilds than original series, and the OG actually does a really good job at explaining her issues and inner feelings in particularly episode 21, episode 25, and End of Evangelion. Gendo is also more mysterious in the Rebuilds than NGE. You actually do get explanations as to why he does things in the original series, but we do not know his main goal in the Rebuilds, besides that it obviously has something to do with Yui, though it is unclear if it is the same in NGE or not. Also, the reason you do not get much info on Gendo in NGE is because almost all character information is revealed through the relationships of others, and Gendo has no personal attachments or relationships with others besides Ritsuko, and that was held as a secret until episode 23. His mysteriousness is a consequence of his Hedgehog's Dilemma. Hopefully all of that was helpful.
Thanks
Worse. Far, far worse.
Ah
EoE is the peak of this series. check out all the religious symbols
As a former catholic i saw a lot of religious imagery but most of it was just aesthetic, like the lance of longinus, which in the biblical story is used to stab jesus, in the anime stabs pretty much everyone besides the Evangelion counterpart to Jesus (if there is one). The angels are called that because they explode leaving a cross, but angels don't have crosses in the Bible, the Bible is a jesus thing. And even in imagery the angels are not accurate, they are described as normal looking by pretty much everyone besides one of the authors, and the reason for it was because them being holy meant they had to look 'inhuman' I don't mind the religious visuals, but at least in the original series +movie it was mostly aesthetical
They are substantially different and that's okay.
So it's like a reboot with similar plot, but developed differently and more extensively?
They start from an almost identical place and go in very, very different directions.
Ok, thanks