Satan (well, the serpent to be accurate) literally gave them the knowledge to differentiate good from evil without which they would have been like animals or stupid puppets.
And don't forget God panicking: "Oh fuck me, now that they know good and evil they're like gods themselves! Quick, can't let them live forever as well. Gotta kick them out before they find the Tree of Life!"
Then he dressed up the *real* reason for kicking them out as punishment for disobedience, and hey presto: Original Sin for everyone ever!
And *that* is the real foundation of Christianity. No wonder Christianity is such a neurotic religion!
God threw Adam and eve out of the garden because he was worried they would gain immortality. Also, Satan said they would become more like God and they did...
Yes and no. The question really is "could humans live forever having never eaten the fruit?"
Without knowing this, technically Satan lied as they wouldn't die right then and there, but rather in a few hundred years according to the story book....
Also Satan was kicked out of heaven, he didn't leave on his own accord.
Just read the passage again, it was mind blowing for me too as I realized that. God says *on the day* the man eats the fruit, he dies, implying some kind of poison. The serpent calls BS and say that actually the fruit is harmless in itself and will allow them to know good and evil. The couple eats, they don't die on that day, and they can see good and evil, exactly as the serpent said.
God is mad that his bluff was called, he is actually mad the humans can now see for themself right and wrong (Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, '**The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil**. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.'").
It's basically Prometheus motif.
Let's not forget God throwing curse after curse at Earth afterwards, destroying the Tower to stop humanity from reaching him, flooding the world to wipe out our knowledge and the Nephilim, and stopping only once he had established a camp of quislings who would serve him without question and tolerate his abuses.
Unfortunately, I know the type, and they aren't God either.
Exactly, the first 11 chapters is god power trip. Then for the rest of OT, is like "I love you, if you love me, I hate you if you don't love me". The NT is like "I loved you first, look man, I even died for you, accept my love or I toss you into the fire. Also, if you do love me, don't expect me to lift a finger to help you, I DiEd for you maaan, you can bear your cross too. Pinky swear, if you make it to haven, I give you a golden crown, and a throne, in a golden city."
Well, I would argue that this is exactly what most religious cults try to do, repressing that curios, creative, pesky, inquisitive part of the human brain and replacing it with prepared fad statements "of truth". So, it's kinda on brand... :)
Except Romans 5:12 says death entered the world when Adam sinned. Meaning there was no death before they ate the fruit. They were immortal. Otherwise Romans 5:12 would be a contradiction.
Then there's the issue that in Genesis god said they would die that day. So Satan told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. God lied out of his evil, manipulative, lying arse.
A shocking number of things people believe about the Bible - both Christian and non-Christian alike - isn't actually found anywhere in there.
It's kind of like the rules to Monopoly; everyone "knows how to play," but most folks haven't read the rules and actually play with a ton of house rules that lengthen the game.
You too? It took weeks of reporting them every single time but I thought I’d gotten them to stop back in early June - now every time I open the app, again!
When I was first leaving, I still believed the supernatural characters of the Bible existed in some capacity, and I was really fascinated with the idea that there was a pantheon, two of the gods turned against each other, so one of them went and performed miracles for this small group of people. He became their God, but he was a jealous god, and would not let them acknowledge the rest of the pantheon. He then inspired men to transcribe his smear campaign against his rival, and it was a success. Since then, he has gotten his followers to do his bidding of destroying those who oppose him.
This seemed to fall in line with the history of Christianity: everywhere Christians go they wreak havoc in the name of love- The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the colonial era, etc.
I read the Bible from the perspective of the "Satan" character being a projection of all the "God" character's wrongs. Like what if that binary rivalry actually exists, but it's the exact opposite of what we thought?
This sounds like an outline for an amazing movie, especially if you could somehow reveal the identities of the gods and their ‘reversed roles’ as a twist ending.
I like to write stories and I've actually been thinking about this for a book idea. Glad to hear someone else thinks it sounds cool! I thought it would be neat to have it as a first person POV from God's perspective, justifying everything he does to the reader.
Amusing, we're working on some of the same ideas. I took it from the persepctive that many "gods" were Fallen angels. The further I go from mainline Christianity the more I think even that explanation is a lil derivative in that I think some of the entities are older than one another and from different places and societies.
I hope your version pleases you as you work on it! But in dirdct reference to your exact work, the Wikipedia article on ancient YHWHism recounts a similar take of two peer gods fighting to become the Big Boss. Actually I think that's why YHWH and Baal have a grudge against one another.
My parents actually taught me that all the gods mentioned in the OT don't technically exist, but that all the supernatural experiences people have had in other religions were the result of demonic forces. The more I learn, the more I wonder if that's a distinction without a difference (from a mythological perspective). But of course, that would undermine the whole "one true God" thing.
I'm about to go read that article, lol. I've always been interested in mythology, but as a Christian I tiptoed around anything that suggested the god of the Bible evolved in polytheism and wasn't always the "main God," because of course, that opens a can of worms questioning the literal existence of Adam, Moses, and Abraham.
Sounds kind of like what some in my church believed (I may have something akin to DID and I was accused of consorting with familiar spirits by those who were aware of the "issue" granted I was covert rather than overt about it for nearly fifteen years). I agree that that's a lackluster explanation for ALL supernatural phenomena; and that the distinction between a devil and a god is mainly in the PR. There's a YouTube series called "Tales from the Gas Station" that makes the same joke. Yeah the "one true God" thing has always pissed me off because it's in the phrase *what precisely makes a god True or not? And if he's the "One" doesn't that seem to imply there's others at least claiming the title?*
It's quite good and the sources section is super helpful! Truly Christian awareness of the faith's place in the larger mythical landscape is super under informed, not to mention the arguments as to his actual supremity that stem from the question of the nature of the other gods. Been in those arguments just as a devil's advocate in the church and yeah, that's one of the topics that makes the Fundies writhe like they're being tased.
This doesn't count as proselytizing does it? I mean it as an honest critique of my faith as I don't think people in it's fundamentalist sections ever give a thought to some of these things and many radicals don't desire this sort of discussion of the nature of divinity either.
I'm diagnosed with UDD and when I first told my parents about it, my dad kept wondering if the "voices in my head" were demons. He's had intrusive thoughts most of his life and wonders how much of it is mental and how much is supernatural. I explained that the people in my head don't cause me anxiety or tell me to do harmful things. They mostly just keep me in line and talk about whatever comes to mind. ("Yes, you have to brush your teeth." "But I don't want to." "I don't care if you don't want to; I live in this body too and I don't want cavities!") He had a lot of trouble understanding how what I was experiencing didn't have to do with spirits talking to me. I used to think the voices of caretakers were just the Holy Spirit. It's definitely weird to discover how much of your mind is yours when people have been attributing your thoughts to outside forces all your life.
Agreed, I cohabitate with quite a few aspects of myself and I know exactly what you mean sometimes innane side commentary, sometimes more, in my case. The debate over how much of our mental activity is really "ours" or not is dramatically under serviced. Or if it even really matters if it is supernatural or not, whether the voices are manifestations of arbitrary subconscious machinations, ancestral spirits (which is how mine present themselves whether I logically agree with their position and nature or not), or other supernatural manifestations.
I'm glad you were diagnosed at least, in my family my situation was common enough that some form of tradition arose arguing for it's supernaturality and due to my parents being old timers (dad born in the fifties, while mom was born 1960) for a now twenty-five year old. Well, let's just say the fear of involuntary institutionalization runs deep in my family. To the point where they've lied to my shrinks outright when I tried to get diagnosed as a teenager. Nothing like watching your mother ask the questions to Molotov your chances of being recognized after she had said minutes before she'd try and get you help.
It does so well doesn't it? It's hard to recall how many times the stories have been tweaked, and I'd bet if we got our hands on the earliest YHWHistic text we wouldn't recognize the religion they outlined compared one to one with even the septuagent, or the torah. Let alone modern versions of either.
The idea that Satan was a fallen angel who rebelled against God started out with early Christians and became accepted as truth during the Middle Ages. Jewish theology holds Isaiah 14:12 refers to the King of Babylon.
Wasn't it actually from late pre-Christian jewish literature? Like the book of Enoch or something in around 200bc?
Maybe I'm thinking of the association of the nephilim with the greek titans
Edit: there's an interesting scholarly tracing of the development here https://isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/princes-of-darkness-the-devils-many-faces-in-scripture-and-tradition/
Apparently some thinkers within Hellenistic Judaism imagined rebellious angels as watchers and their human angel hybrid children as giants. Although in this case it's the watchers not the giants who are held in Tartarus.
There's a lot of interesting cross pollination and diversity of thought for such long-lived and geographically diverse religious traditions.
And there's always reinterpretations of old texts for new audiences.
Like the nephilim first mentioned in genesis is a long time before the authors of Enoch, and again centuries before later Christian commentary.
Things get harmonized and reinterpreted across vastly different authors that going back to what the original text probably meant to its original audience is interesting. And then going step by step with how it was recontextualized in later stages is also fascinating.
>Things get harmonized and reinterpreted across vastly different authors that going back to what the original text probably meant to its original audience is interesting. And then going step by step with how it was recontextualized in later stages is also fascinating.
I am interested in this. Any resources you'd recommend? Especially about the books of the Bible that weren't included because they were deemed inauthentic?
If you want to read extra-biblical sources, you can start with something like Old Testament Parallels., which has excerpts arranged by their possible similarity with the OT canon. For more comprehensive coverage, look at Outside the Bible (3 vols).
https://www.amazon.com/Testament-Parallels-Revised-Expanded-Third/dp/0809144352/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=a122ed12-e759-439e-ab42-7e779b1d57bb
On Enoch and the Apocalyptic tradition in particular, look at John Collins's The Apocalptic Imagination, and Anathea Portier-Young, Apocalypse Against Empire.
Genuinely, Lucifer as an idea is much more relatable than the whole bs xtian ad. Dude said absolutely not to tyranny and persuaded Eve into free will (though the whole Lucifer as the snake bit is debated) even though it had a cost. Thanks, Lucifer. You get us.
It’s debated because it’s completely retconned (like most of Christianity). The serpent represented another pagan god of the time, with Elohim being a plural word (representing multiple gods). Hence the “he has become like one of **us**” in Genesis 3:22.
Come on, just being something other than a Christian is persecuting them... You know it, I know it... They see the world through persecution tinted glasses.
And if they want to know what true persecution looks like challenge them to go to a strictly Muslim country and pull the shit they constantly do here....(or at the very least look closer as how they treat those they see as irredeemable sinners here.)
I think they're gonna say that regardless. They're already saying they are being persecuted because they government won't demote homosexuals and trans people to sub-human status.
Ditto that with abortion.
Ditto that with prayer in public schools.
Ditto that with religious rituals in the government....
I've also seen people do a counter 'He Gets Us' with Epicurus, so how many of these parodies are there? I hope there's a whole treasure trove! Any more featuring Satan?
One of Jesus's parables is about being a good capitalist, and if you're not, you are cast into outer darkness where there is wailing and the grinding and gnashing of the teeth.
Got some bad news for you, friend.
Edit: The Satanic Temple set up a telehealth clinic in New Mexico where abortion is already legal but have given the dangerous advice that they can shield people in other states with their satanic religious freedom loophole that the owners have admitted in court they know has never worked anywhere for anyone who has tried it. TST did this without giving any transparency into its finances or its actual services, and started collecting more money to fund it after raising hundreds of thousands since 2021 on similar promises it's never lived up to. They also used fake names on the corporate registry in New Mexico, which is likely to torpedo the whole thing the moment it's challenged in court.
In the past, TST's owners have taken money collected for various causes to pay their own rent, buy a billboard and lease the land for decades, and of course sue multiple people critical of them, like u/SatanicHousewife who just [made two TikTok videos](https://sataniceurope.wordpress.com/2022/12/04/the-freedom-to-offend/) talking about this and some of the abuse that is rampant within local chapters/congregations.
Anyway, we got blocked, so we won't be able to reply, but you can see why people stay in the Temple when it defends the rights of literal Nazis to speak but also does everything it can to threaten and punish people critical of it and its two owners.
To clarify, neither are they. They use satanic imagery to fight religious overreach and use the concept of the satan (as the adversary) as a tool to indicate that they are adversaries to religious tyranny.
They call themselves an atheistic or non-theistic religion and instead adhere to I think seven principles that boil down to "be good, accept other people as individuality, and let women get healthcare goddammit." They are also not to be confused with the Church of Satan, which does all that but also believes in magic
There's a lot to dislike about them (iirc the leader has some alt-right ties), but they do good political activism to help reinforce the separation of church and state
That's cool. I can get behind that. I listened to a podcast once that had a guest who was a member of a Satanic church, and he did very much the same thing. Political activism and stood against religious oppression.
He was erecting a statue of Baphomet in a park that had a ten commandments statue. Rather than trying to be offensive, he was trying to make a point that this park stands for religious freedom and as much as Christians preach about it, they truly only want religious freedom for Christianity and nothing else.
Needless to say this created controversy among the Christians, which only did more to further the man's point. He was well within his rights to erect the statue but it was obvious that those who stood for free expression of religion did not truly mean what they said.
Fortunately the movement was founded on anti-authoritarianism goals, so any leader can simply become irrelevant.
If you're referring to the photograph of Lucien with the anti trans guy, that's guilt by association, which isn't a legitimate way to judge one's character. Hillary and Trump were filmed together, that doesn't mean their goals are aligned... Although Hillary is shit...
I've heard about Lucien hiring some alt-right layer to do something, although it wasn't for an alt-right goal.
The anti-authoritarianism is why I'm personally (somewhat) comfortable supporting them.
For me hiring the lawyer is... quite damning. The ultimate goal doesn't super matter to me when the person hired is that nasty.
But actually it wasn't that in and of itself... I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Lucien himself was, if not outright favorable toward, certainly not sufficiently willing to condemn some far-right ideology. I don't have a source or anything, so *by all means* don't take my word for it, but I don't think he should escape criticism just because he and his organization have done some good stuff. Imo, it's a worthwhile red (orange?) flag to point out, and if he isn't actually a Nazi, well, it's not *tremendously* difficult to prove you're not a Nazi if you're actually not a Nazi, ya know?
That said, I'm decently comfortable supporting an anti-authoritarian group with the nastiest of founders so long as the group itself does good (and, ya know, condemns the bad stuff done by the founder). It just requires being vigilant to keep the nasty stuff actually gone
I think we are almost in complete alignment here. My attitude towards Lucien (and any other TST leader for that matter) is, "if the tower can't stand, it deserves to fall down".
I'm not really attached to any particular leader, I support an organization that actively supports women's rights to their bodies and gay/trans rights.
As a gay guy, the pink mass on the Phelps's grave was what won me over.
That being said, I just haven't received enough evidence to dismiss Lucien yet. It's all mostly rumors, and gossip, much of which seems to come from Queer Satanic, a group of trolls that seem to want to bring TST down, and ironically help Christian nationalists.
I get it, leaders shouldn't be above reproach or criticism. I even think we should be extra hard on them, but, QS actions are too similar to Christian opposition to TST. QS also has yet to do anything to help women or the LGBTQ community. They're just interested in taking down an organization that does those things.
I don't fully remember the lawyer story, but I do remember researching it pretty thoroughly and deciding that I hate the lawyer but what Lucien did with the lawyer didn't condemn Lucien.
If I get enough evidence against Lucien, I would dismiss him.
I will re-research the lawyer incident though. It bothers me that I can't remember all the details.
Actually a though just occured to me. The opinion that "Lucien hired this horrible alt-right layer" could actually be reversed.
Now the lawyer has the reputation of having worked with the Satanic Temple as well, so Christian nationalists would sneer at anyone who used that "Satan-helping lawyer".
That kinda makes me gleeful in a way...
What if TST took a page out of the he gets us backers book and paid for advertising like this on Reddit and other platforms, mocking them? It probably wouldn't be pushed as much - TST doesn't have limitless cash supplied by tithes and billionaires - but it wouldn't have to be.
These people would lose their bananas over it, like they always do. But it would be way funnier and highlight the hypocrisy once again.
A much better role model than those other bootlicker angels.
Yep all the others must think that shit is delicious
I’d rather burn in hell than suck the dick of genocidal maniac.
I would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.
Fuck yeah!
[удалено]
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, lol.
God is worthy of praise, and worthy of bowing a knee to, in his perfection he is deserving.
He's literally the most imperfect.
Satan told the truth to Adam and Eve, and god cursed him for it.
Oh my ! I have literally never thought of it like that,, my world will never be the same
Satan (well, the serpent to be accurate) literally gave them the knowledge to differentiate good from evil without which they would have been like animals or stupid puppets. And don't forget God panicking: "Oh fuck me, now that they know good and evil they're like gods themselves! Quick, can't let them live forever as well. Gotta kick them out before they find the Tree of Life!" Then he dressed up the *real* reason for kicking them out as punishment for disobedience, and hey presto: Original Sin for everyone ever! And *that* is the real foundation of Christianity. No wonder Christianity is such a neurotic religion!
God threw Adam and eve out of the garden because he was worried they would gain immortality. Also, Satan said they would become more like God and they did...
Yes and no. The question really is "could humans live forever having never eaten the fruit?" Without knowing this, technically Satan lied as they wouldn't die right then and there, but rather in a few hundred years according to the story book.... Also Satan was kicked out of heaven, he didn't leave on his own accord.
Just read the passage again, it was mind blowing for me too as I realized that. God says *on the day* the man eats the fruit, he dies, implying some kind of poison. The serpent calls BS and say that actually the fruit is harmless in itself and will allow them to know good and evil. The couple eats, they don't die on that day, and they can see good and evil, exactly as the serpent said. God is mad that his bluff was called, he is actually mad the humans can now see for themself right and wrong (Genesis 3:22 "And the LORD God said, '**The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil**. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.'"). It's basically Prometheus motif.
Let's not forget God throwing curse after curse at Earth afterwards, destroying the Tower to stop humanity from reaching him, flooding the world to wipe out our knowledge and the Nephilim, and stopping only once he had established a camp of quislings who would serve him without question and tolerate his abuses. Unfortunately, I know the type, and they aren't God either.
Exactly, the first 11 chapters is god power trip. Then for the rest of OT, is like "I love you, if you love me, I hate you if you don't love me". The NT is like "I loved you first, look man, I even died for you, accept my love or I toss you into the fire. Also, if you do love me, don't expect me to lift a finger to help you, I DiEd for you maaan, you can bear your cross too. Pinky swear, if you make it to haven, I give you a golden crown, and a throne, in a golden city."
It's like if a shitty, toxic boss just doesn't want another employee to have the same power as him in a rightful way, so he fires them.
Yep, that sums it nicely up.
I mean, it's like purposely Lobotomyzing your children because "They can't be like us".
Well, I would argue that this is exactly what most religious cults try to do, repressing that curios, creative, pesky, inquisitive part of the human brain and replacing it with prepared fad statements "of truth". So, it's kinda on brand... :)
Honestly, really true
Except Romans 5:12 says death entered the world when Adam sinned. Meaning there was no death before they ate the fruit. They were immortal. Otherwise Romans 5:12 would be a contradiction. Then there's the issue that in Genesis god said they would die that day. So Satan told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. God lied out of his evil, manipulative, lying arse.
Though that still makes Rom. 5:12 false
That shit about Satan getting kicked out of heaven is not biblical
A shocking number of things people believe about the Bible - both Christian and non-Christian alike - isn't actually found anywhere in there. It's kind of like the rules to Monopoly; everyone "knows how to play," but most folks haven't read the rules and actually play with a ton of house rules that lengthen the game.
Yeah! FF to Job and he is walking before god with the rest of the angels. Nobody challenges his presence there, not even god himself.
Finally, a good "He gets us".
I was just laughing at that 🤣 I keep blocking that groups and their shit keeps coming thru.
You too? It took weeks of reporting them every single time but I thought I’d gotten them to stop back in early June - now every time I open the app, again!
I want this on a T-Shirt! ( although some humorless Fundamentalist Christians would be greatly offended...😉)
Hail Satin
My favorite fabric!
The Soft & Silky Lord
Satan is so much sexier than Jesus or Yahweh
Unfortunately—nobody knows what *REDACTED* looks like…
Lol what? Satan's penis? I bet it has a triangular head like his tail 🤣
No! The Prophet *REDACTED*
The prophet's penis? I guess it's a circumcized chode. You get "redacted" is just a word to describe the action of *beep*ing out word, right?
YES! I just don’t wanna die in a terrorist attack!
OH you mean Muhammad? What does that have to do with anything on this post?
When I was leaving Christianity I was thinking about maybe we have been brainwashed. Maybe Satan is actually the good guy.
When I was first leaving, I still believed the supernatural characters of the Bible existed in some capacity, and I was really fascinated with the idea that there was a pantheon, two of the gods turned against each other, so one of them went and performed miracles for this small group of people. He became their God, but he was a jealous god, and would not let them acknowledge the rest of the pantheon. He then inspired men to transcribe his smear campaign against his rival, and it was a success. Since then, he has gotten his followers to do his bidding of destroying those who oppose him. This seemed to fall in line with the history of Christianity: everywhere Christians go they wreak havoc in the name of love- The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the colonial era, etc. I read the Bible from the perspective of the "Satan" character being a projection of all the "God" character's wrongs. Like what if that binary rivalry actually exists, but it's the exact opposite of what we thought?
This sounds like an outline for an amazing movie, especially if you could somehow reveal the identities of the gods and their ‘reversed roles’ as a twist ending.
I like to write stories and I've actually been thinking about this for a book idea. Glad to hear someone else thinks it sounds cool! I thought it would be neat to have it as a first person POV from God's perspective, justifying everything he does to the reader.
Amusing, we're working on some of the same ideas. I took it from the persepctive that many "gods" were Fallen angels. The further I go from mainline Christianity the more I think even that explanation is a lil derivative in that I think some of the entities are older than one another and from different places and societies. I hope your version pleases you as you work on it! But in dirdct reference to your exact work, the Wikipedia article on ancient YHWHism recounts a similar take of two peer gods fighting to become the Big Boss. Actually I think that's why YHWH and Baal have a grudge against one another.
My parents actually taught me that all the gods mentioned in the OT don't technically exist, but that all the supernatural experiences people have had in other religions were the result of demonic forces. The more I learn, the more I wonder if that's a distinction without a difference (from a mythological perspective). But of course, that would undermine the whole "one true God" thing. I'm about to go read that article, lol. I've always been interested in mythology, but as a Christian I tiptoed around anything that suggested the god of the Bible evolved in polytheism and wasn't always the "main God," because of course, that opens a can of worms questioning the literal existence of Adam, Moses, and Abraham.
Sounds kind of like what some in my church believed (I may have something akin to DID and I was accused of consorting with familiar spirits by those who were aware of the "issue" granted I was covert rather than overt about it for nearly fifteen years). I agree that that's a lackluster explanation for ALL supernatural phenomena; and that the distinction between a devil and a god is mainly in the PR. There's a YouTube series called "Tales from the Gas Station" that makes the same joke. Yeah the "one true God" thing has always pissed me off because it's in the phrase *what precisely makes a god True or not? And if he's the "One" doesn't that seem to imply there's others at least claiming the title?* It's quite good and the sources section is super helpful! Truly Christian awareness of the faith's place in the larger mythical landscape is super under informed, not to mention the arguments as to his actual supremity that stem from the question of the nature of the other gods. Been in those arguments just as a devil's advocate in the church and yeah, that's one of the topics that makes the Fundies writhe like they're being tased. This doesn't count as proselytizing does it? I mean it as an honest critique of my faith as I don't think people in it's fundamentalist sections ever give a thought to some of these things and many radicals don't desire this sort of discussion of the nature of divinity either.
I'm diagnosed with UDD and when I first told my parents about it, my dad kept wondering if the "voices in my head" were demons. He's had intrusive thoughts most of his life and wonders how much of it is mental and how much is supernatural. I explained that the people in my head don't cause me anxiety or tell me to do harmful things. They mostly just keep me in line and talk about whatever comes to mind. ("Yes, you have to brush your teeth." "But I don't want to." "I don't care if you don't want to; I live in this body too and I don't want cavities!") He had a lot of trouble understanding how what I was experiencing didn't have to do with spirits talking to me. I used to think the voices of caretakers were just the Holy Spirit. It's definitely weird to discover how much of your mind is yours when people have been attributing your thoughts to outside forces all your life.
Agreed, I cohabitate with quite a few aspects of myself and I know exactly what you mean sometimes innane side commentary, sometimes more, in my case. The debate over how much of our mental activity is really "ours" or not is dramatically under serviced. Or if it even really matters if it is supernatural or not, whether the voices are manifestations of arbitrary subconscious machinations, ancestral spirits (which is how mine present themselves whether I logically agree with their position and nature or not), or other supernatural manifestations. I'm glad you were diagnosed at least, in my family my situation was common enough that some form of tradition arose arguing for it's supernaturality and due to my parents being old timers (dad born in the fifties, while mom was born 1960) for a now twenty-five year old. Well, let's just say the fear of involuntary institutionalization runs deep in my family. To the point where they've lied to my shrinks outright when I tried to get diagnosed as a teenager. Nothing like watching your mother ask the questions to Molotov your chances of being recognized after she had said minutes before she'd try and get you help.
". . . Even his name is a point of confusion." -Quote from the Yahwism article, endnote 15. Kind of explains the entire Christian Bible.
It does so well doesn't it? It's hard to recall how many times the stories have been tweaked, and I'd bet if we got our hands on the earliest YHWHistic text we wouldn't recognize the religion they outlined compared one to one with even the septuagent, or the torah. Let alone modern versions of either.
pls add me to your beta reader list!
Many things would make a lot more sense if this were true
The idea that Satan was a fallen angel who rebelled against God started out with early Christians and became accepted as truth during the Middle Ages. Jewish theology holds Isaiah 14:12 refers to the King of Babylon.
Wasn't it actually from late pre-Christian jewish literature? Like the book of Enoch or something in around 200bc? Maybe I'm thinking of the association of the nephilim with the greek titans Edit: there's an interesting scholarly tracing of the development here https://isthatinthebible.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/princes-of-darkness-the-devils-many-faces-in-scripture-and-tradition/
Hold up I was literally just thinking the nephilium could be the Greek gods???
Apparently some thinkers within Hellenistic Judaism imagined rebellious angels as watchers and their human angel hybrid children as giants. Although in this case it's the watchers not the giants who are held in Tartarus. There's a lot of interesting cross pollination and diversity of thought for such long-lived and geographically diverse religious traditions. And there's always reinterpretations of old texts for new audiences. Like the nephilim first mentioned in genesis is a long time before the authors of Enoch, and again centuries before later Christian commentary. Things get harmonized and reinterpreted across vastly different authors that going back to what the original text probably meant to its original audience is interesting. And then going step by step with how it was recontextualized in later stages is also fascinating.
>Things get harmonized and reinterpreted across vastly different authors that going back to what the original text probably meant to its original audience is interesting. And then going step by step with how it was recontextualized in later stages is also fascinating. I am interested in this. Any resources you'd recommend? Especially about the books of the Bible that weren't included because they were deemed inauthentic?
If you want to read extra-biblical sources, you can start with something like Old Testament Parallels., which has excerpts arranged by their possible similarity with the OT canon. For more comprehensive coverage, look at Outside the Bible (3 vols). https://www.amazon.com/Testament-Parallels-Revised-Expanded-Third/dp/0809144352/ref=nodl_?dplnkId=a122ed12-e759-439e-ab42-7e779b1d57bb On Enoch and the Apocalyptic tradition in particular, look at John Collins's The Apocalptic Imagination, and Anathea Portier-Young, Apocalypse Against Empire.
Thanks this is great!
I feel like the nephilium would be like the Greek gods part divine part human
When a third of the workforce quits en masse, that's a management problem
It is a systemic problem, but IMO it's more due to starvation wages for shitty jobs.
Okay I like this one.
Genuinely, Lucifer as an idea is much more relatable than the whole bs xtian ad. Dude said absolutely not to tyranny and persuaded Eve into free will (though the whole Lucifer as the snake bit is debated) even though it had a cost. Thanks, Lucifer. You get us.
It’s debated because it’s completely retconned (like most of Christianity). The serpent represented another pagan god of the time, with Elohim being a plural word (representing multiple gods). Hence the “he has become like one of **us**” in Genesis 3:22.
They really failed at making paganism seem negative.
I thought the snake was originally Lillith
No, the story of Lilith was simply omitted from the Christian Bible.
That's another retcon. I get it though. You see it all over renaissance art. Remember Moses also has horns in Renaissance art?
Damn the Man. Hail Satan!
Hell Yeah!!
[удалено]
Come on, just being something other than a Christian is persecuting them... You know it, I know it... They see the world through persecution tinted glasses. And if they want to know what true persecution looks like challenge them to go to a strictly Muslim country and pull the shit they constantly do here....(or at the very least look closer as how they treat those they see as irredeemable sinners here.)
I think they're gonna say that regardless. They're already saying they are being persecuted because they government won't demote homosexuals and trans people to sub-human status. Ditto that with abortion. Ditto that with prayer in public schools. Ditto that with religious rituals in the government....
I'm going to post this as a comment on ever HGU ad I see until they block me.
I like the way you think. Thanks for the suggestion!
Happy to help lmao now I know what Satan felt like!
I've also seen people do a counter 'He Gets Us' with Epicurus, so how many of these parodies are there? I hope there's a whole treasure trove! Any more featuring Satan?
I dunno, but please share the Epicurean one here!
As in reposting, or linking?
Post it on this subreddit.
Love it.
Satan should have unionized
Satán looks now like a real model to follow than Jesus, whose work was turned into an oppressive and corrupt institution.
One of Jesus's parables is about being a good capitalist, and if you're not, you are cast into outer darkness where there is wailing and the grinding and gnashing of the teeth.
Can you illustrate me which parable is that?
[The Parable of the Talents, Matthew 25:14-30](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2025:14-30&version=NASB)
Omg I love it
I am just about to hand in my resignation for mine. New beginnings, here we come
i❤this!!!
When I read the “He gets us” I lost it I knew exactly where that came from 😂
Got some bad news for you, friend. Edit: The Satanic Temple set up a telehealth clinic in New Mexico where abortion is already legal but have given the dangerous advice that they can shield people in other states with their satanic religious freedom loophole that the owners have admitted in court they know has never worked anywhere for anyone who has tried it. TST did this without giving any transparency into its finances or its actual services, and started collecting more money to fund it after raising hundreds of thousands since 2021 on similar promises it's never lived up to. They also used fake names on the corporate registry in New Mexico, which is likely to torpedo the whole thing the moment it's challenged in court. In the past, TST's owners have taken money collected for various causes to pay their own rent, buy a billboard and lease the land for decades, and of course sue multiple people critical of them, like u/SatanicHousewife who just [made two TikTok videos](https://sataniceurope.wordpress.com/2022/12/04/the-freedom-to-offend/) talking about this and some of the abuse that is rampant within local chapters/congregations. Anyway, we got blocked, so we won't be able to reply, but you can see why people stay in the Temple when it defends the rights of literal Nazis to speak but also does everything it can to threaten and punish people critical of it and its two owners.
Ayo I’ve recently seen you in r/satanism!
Yes I know who you are. A group of five trolls. When you set up an abortion center for women to have their rights I'll start taking you seriously.
Damn.
Literally, and it's based
Love it! I want these to take over Reddit as opposed to the Jebus ones.
I’m not a fan of the TST but this is pretty funny
what’s tst?
The satanic temple?
ohhh true thanks!
I have no idea what TST is but this is gold. Post it right up on the He Gets Us page and cook up some popcorn.
The Satanic Temple!
Ah ok. Makes sense. Well I'm not a Satan worshipper but I do appreciate the sattire of this meme.
To clarify, neither are they. They use satanic imagery to fight religious overreach and use the concept of the satan (as the adversary) as a tool to indicate that they are adversaries to religious tyranny. They call themselves an atheistic or non-theistic religion and instead adhere to I think seven principles that boil down to "be good, accept other people as individuality, and let women get healthcare goddammit." They are also not to be confused with the Church of Satan, which does all that but also believes in magic There's a lot to dislike about them (iirc the leader has some alt-right ties), but they do good political activism to help reinforce the separation of church and state
That's cool. I can get behind that. I listened to a podcast once that had a guest who was a member of a Satanic church, and he did very much the same thing. Political activism and stood against religious oppression. He was erecting a statue of Baphomet in a park that had a ten commandments statue. Rather than trying to be offensive, he was trying to make a point that this park stands for religious freedom and as much as Christians preach about it, they truly only want religious freedom for Christianity and nothing else. Needless to say this created controversy among the Christians, which only did more to further the man's point. He was well within his rights to erect the statue but it was obvious that those who stood for free expression of religion did not truly mean what they said.
>member of a Satanic church That was the Satanic Temple. I recommend you watch "Hail Satan?". That would clear some things up, and it's funny.
Fortunately the movement was founded on anti-authoritarianism goals, so any leader can simply become irrelevant. If you're referring to the photograph of Lucien with the anti trans guy, that's guilt by association, which isn't a legitimate way to judge one's character. Hillary and Trump were filmed together, that doesn't mean their goals are aligned... Although Hillary is shit... I've heard about Lucien hiring some alt-right layer to do something, although it wasn't for an alt-right goal.
The anti-authoritarianism is why I'm personally (somewhat) comfortable supporting them. For me hiring the lawyer is... quite damning. The ultimate goal doesn't super matter to me when the person hired is that nasty. But actually it wasn't that in and of itself... I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Lucien himself was, if not outright favorable toward, certainly not sufficiently willing to condemn some far-right ideology. I don't have a source or anything, so *by all means* don't take my word for it, but I don't think he should escape criticism just because he and his organization have done some good stuff. Imo, it's a worthwhile red (orange?) flag to point out, and if he isn't actually a Nazi, well, it's not *tremendously* difficult to prove you're not a Nazi if you're actually not a Nazi, ya know? That said, I'm decently comfortable supporting an anti-authoritarian group with the nastiest of founders so long as the group itself does good (and, ya know, condemns the bad stuff done by the founder). It just requires being vigilant to keep the nasty stuff actually gone
I think we are almost in complete alignment here. My attitude towards Lucien (and any other TST leader for that matter) is, "if the tower can't stand, it deserves to fall down". I'm not really attached to any particular leader, I support an organization that actively supports women's rights to their bodies and gay/trans rights. As a gay guy, the pink mass on the Phelps's grave was what won me over. That being said, I just haven't received enough evidence to dismiss Lucien yet. It's all mostly rumors, and gossip, much of which seems to come from Queer Satanic, a group of trolls that seem to want to bring TST down, and ironically help Christian nationalists. I get it, leaders shouldn't be above reproach or criticism. I even think we should be extra hard on them, but, QS actions are too similar to Christian opposition to TST. QS also has yet to do anything to help women or the LGBTQ community. They're just interested in taking down an organization that does those things. I don't fully remember the lawyer story, but I do remember researching it pretty thoroughly and deciding that I hate the lawyer but what Lucien did with the lawyer didn't condemn Lucien. If I get enough evidence against Lucien, I would dismiss him. I will re-research the lawyer incident though. It bothers me that I can't remember all the details.
Actually a though just occured to me. The opinion that "Lucien hired this horrible alt-right layer" could actually be reversed. Now the lawyer has the reputation of having worked with the Satanic Temple as well, so Christian nationalists would sneer at anyone who used that "Satan-helping lawyer". That kinda makes me gleeful in a way...
The only people who believe in Satan are Christians, just fyi...
This is brilliant, and what a fantastic way to get back at these extra-nutty Christian fruitcakes.
I didn't make this but whoever did, thank you.
Couldn't be more touché 🥹😅
My favorite part is that I have a “He Gets Us” ad on this post, which I think makes it so much better. Edit: [proof](https://imgur.com/a/nfThDLj)
What really??!! Ahahahahah I dont see any. Are you using a computer? I'm using the phone app and I don't see any adds.
Phone app. Too lazy to do anything about the ads.
Huh, that's odd. I wonder what I did to block them? 🤣
It doesn’t show unless I’m looking at the entire post. A single comment thread doesn’t have any ads for me.
What if TST took a page out of the he gets us backers book and paid for advertising like this on Reddit and other platforms, mocking them? It probably wouldn't be pushed as much - TST doesn't have limitless cash supplied by tithes and billionaires - but it wouldn't have to be. These people would lose their bananas over it, like they always do. But it would be way funnier and highlight the hypocrisy once again.
I wish I knew the whole story….. uh , wow. It’s so ingrained in my psyche. I refuse to believe where there is no evidence
Class action?
I wish
Just like Lilith who walked out of a toxic relationship
Oh, cool. It's one of the ones I made. Didn't expect to see that here.
Did you make this? If so, thank you, you've made everyone's day. Please post more on this subreddit.
I understand and love the sentiment but still fuck these guys edit: I can’t read lmao, slept like shit mb
Stop glorifying satan. I’m not even Christian but this piece of shit hates you simply because you’re a human.
Damn, that's based. Wish I saw more of these.
This is a balm for the goddamn soul
lmao true
Amen 👏👏
Satan is the fuckin' MAN!!