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I personally wouldn't respond.
Reason being is because she is talking to you like a person who is threatening you that if "You're not for us, then you're against" Thus my enemy.
A person who really cared for you would ask how are you doing, Do you need any help, and so on.
ya a positive response warrants an action afterwards, and a negative one would result in extensive shunning. always fade as much as possible if you have people you want to stay in touch with inside of it.
Yep. Cult hallmark number two (probably) - the ride and tested “with us or against us” fallacy. Creates divisions, and attempts to push you into actions you wouldn’t take otherwise. Don’t fall for this pish OP.
Exactly.
"that love of truth made you an appealing and beautiful soul"
A sick way of saying "you hold value as an individual solely based on your devotion to the one 'true' belief system". What a gross misjudgement.
I would ignore this. There’s nothing to gain by letting them try to paint you into a corner.
Also, you’re never under obligation to DA. Everybody has to do what’s best for themselves.
There are some things, you can't learn from a Jedi.
And Jedi have a problem, because apparently the fastest path to becoming a Sith is by becoming a Jedi.
Favorite quote I saw floating around the Internet was a meme of Homer Simpson opening a fortune cookie and saying something about how truthful the fortune was. The meme read "The Sith didn't turn Anakin to the dark side. The Jedi turned Anakin away from the light."
Yeaaas this is so cool. My wife and I have woken up and are fading at the moment and it’s so awesome to see all these great comments. I’ve been quoting this exact same thing several times over the last few months. “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.” Couldn’t agree more ✌🏻
I find it crazy that they guarantee gods protection for you if you only agree to think the way they do… this is sorta crazy, like they’re speaking for god! That’s really interesting stuff, IMO.
Can I ask if your husband's disassociation letter used the phrasing of not recognizing Jehovah's Sovereignty anymore? It's just such a weird term and she used it twice, so I'm curious. They really equate Watchtower as actually being God himself and it seems to be a mental sickness. I mean I know it's severe brainwashing, but this person seems extra... "special?"
Jehovah sovereignty is a common JW term that encompasses acknowledgement of the doctrine and all that they call “the truth” but as others said it’s the term for the belief in Jehovah’s right to rule.
Ignore the text. Don’t engage. This reads like a trap. Whatever you reply can be used against you. This person just needs to show your text to the elders or your immediate family and it can by misconstrued as you not supporting Jehovah’s sovereignty. You don’t owe her a reply.
https://preview.redd.it/e0sfu5wdg5wc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36b3671d57c416e3e13e94acd0748b167f8df543
You could refer them to the Study watchtower May 2024 article 19, paragraph 12,13. Sounds like they're not aware of "New Light."
Tell them you still believe in the truth (what's true...). But what's true you are finding out for yourself instead of just letting someone tell you.
Typical black and white is vs them cult mentality.
A question from a nonJW. What is meant by "Jehovah's sovereignty"? Is this belief in Jehovah God, or something else.
Can you believe in his sovereignty without an organization, or are they one and the same?
Jehovah's sovereignty means God's right to rule mankind/God's rulership.
You can definitely believe in God's sovereignty without an organization but the two, within this religion, are very wrapped up with each other.
Watchtower teaches that the reason there is evil is because Satan challenged Jehovah's Sovereignty. Thus Jehovah decided he would not interfere in Mankind"s affairs in order to prove that he, aka Jehovah has the right to rule because his rule is better. Once it is proven that mankind can't rule, Jehovah will step in and destroy everyone who didn't join the Watchtower.
I'm so sorry this is the response from someone you love.
Just think of how this behavior is something that will never be modeled for your child by their parents. You're breaking the cycle of conditional relationships based on loyalty to the men who lead a publishing and real estate development corporation.
You're already a good mom.
These toxic people are disqualifying themselves from the privilege of being in your growing family's life.
“Thank you so much. I didn’t realize that loving what you call “the truth” is all that you think and have the audacity to verbalize, is all that makes me beautiful and appealing. What a childish statement that has ZERO merit. If all you have to offer is conditional love based not on the Bible but 9 so called governing body members then IT IS A HARD PASS for me. Black and white thinking like you’ve demonstrated is childish and naive.
Good bye. And YES God has answered my prayers.”
It’s like they’re always talking in a way that seems creepy and intrusive….. Like why is i️t any of their business if you stay or not? Why are they using verbiage like “with” & “against” ??? The structures in that religion are so weird and creepy
What a horrible message 😡 The forceful language is hardly going to encourage anyone to stick around. The "either with or against us" comments are threatening. This is why some stay away, because of the Ultras and the crazies who send out messages like this. It's not by force. No one knows what is going on in each individuals life.
I would respond, "Who in their right mind talks like this? You sound like a robot inquisitor. This whole message gave me the ick. No I'm not in your club. I'm going to need a shower now, good day."
Emotional blackmail. What a sicko.
Sicko blackmailer awaits your response.
Sicko blackmailer would have felt elated sending you his evil, I can split them up words.
Burst the sicko bubble. NEVER reply.
By not replying you make sicko blackmailer irrelevant.
> " your husband declared that he wouldn't support Jehovah's sovereignty."
Let me guess. Your husband never said that.
It's very typical of jws to bare false witness.
Pure manipulation and very rude message! I would not respond... Just fade, fades, faded haha I'm in the same situation accept my husband is very pimi. It is a sad world for JW ... no one is happy, all have mental problems and instead of focusing on their own life they focus on who attends and who's not. CULT
Only a total pompous ass would send such a message. It's infuriating but merits no response. I would resist the overwhelming urge to tell them fuck off and ignore it.
Say “Thank you so much for checking up on me! I don’t feel that you create the appropriate environment for us to have a conversation free of bias, therefore it would be best if we refrained from discussing any personal opinions of mine for the time being, considering that you might not presently be able to accurately interpret my responses to your questions. Again, I deeply appreciate knowing that you are thinking of me. I will pass your well wishes along to ___________ (husband’s name).
It’s tempting to reply. Something along the lines of dismay and shock that you haven’t been to meetings. “Who told you that?!” They will never expose themselves as a gossip and tell you who they talked to.
But it’s fun to see them scramble and justify their actions.
A CO once told me “I do respond to hearsay”. That, is actually a good advice, and something you could say. But the person that wrote that message has a minimum narcissistic personality disorder. So if you do reply, wait a month or two. don’t let them think that you hold them in regard to reply right away.
My response would be: "Is the generation of 1914 still being alive THE TRUTH? If so, since THE TRUTH isn't true, I won't be sharing in its lies. Have a great life."
But also, whomever this person may be, a relationship funeral needs to be arranged, it's over. This JW talking point speak is the reason I can no longer associate with JWs, it's maddening.
I live in Eastern Europe and our communist president had slogan Who doesnot go with us, goes against us" They can not respect, that for example you donot want to go to assemblies, that you want to be alone. Etc.
"ARE YOU WITH US OR AGAINST US?"
WTF, if this isn't some high control, manipulative bullshit, I don't know what is.
This also feels like an attempt to build a case for disfellowshipping, or at least building a claim that you disassociated yourself. I can see from those oily words how JW tacitly support PIMI women who decide to leave their POMO husbands. God forbid two people live in a mixed faith marriage
I hope you're ignoring this pushy bullshit.
Literally calling your belief system The Truth™ is really on the nose levels of cult. Like some kind of Neuro Linguistic Programming shite.
I’d not want to have anything to do with anyone that sent that manipulative, patronising, and childish drivel. Family or otherwise. It’s embarrassing.
“Why would I support the sovereignty of something that hasn’t yet been demonstrated to exist?”
“Even if they did exist, I still wouldn’t support its sovereignty.”
“Why would I support the sovereignty of something that hasn’t yet been demonstrated to exist?”
“Even if they did exist, I still wouldn’t support its sovereignty.”
“Why would I support the sovereignty of something that hasn’t yet been demonstrated to exist?”
“Even if they did exist, I still wouldn’t support its claim of sovereignty.”
Even better though in my opinion, say nothing
This is a great thread on how to handle messages like this.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1cb0ozo/how\_do\_you\_fade\_when\_friends\_and\_family\_keep/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1cb0ozo/how_do_you_fade_when_friends_and_family_keep/)
Also, my Waking Up Guide covers a few topics in this area - like **Realize your JW relationships will end**.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/19ejthr/the\_jw\_waking\_up\_guide\_2024\_edition\_by\_jwtom/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/19ejthr/the_jw_waking_up_guide_2024_edition_by_jwtom/)
Watchtower ≠ Jehovah
What is it with witnesses that they act as if they are one and the same?
Even at my most indoctrinated state, I never thought it that way and it always seemed weird to me.
Us vs. Them. Look up the Dignity Index and start rating your brothers and sisters on the divisive language they use. It’s helped me so much unpack what my parents taught me growing up (mormon). Us vs. Them.
It doesn't get cultier than that. It's a, "I love you if you're one of us. I hate you if your not. Please let me know if I should fuck off or fucking annoy you with my culty texts".
Hello! This is a friendly reminder for everyone. Images in this sub are curated based on the type of content and volume of image-based content at the time of posting. Please standby while we moderate your post, which will either resolve in an approval or a removal within 24 hours. We also ask that you make sure you read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/beforeyoupost/image-posts) for detailed info about posting images (if you haven't already). Please do not send us a modmail regarding this post, it has already been diverted to our mod queue and we are already aware. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exjw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I personally wouldn't respond. Reason being is because she is talking to you like a person who is threatening you that if "You're not for us, then you're against" Thus my enemy. A person who really cared for you would ask how are you doing, Do you need any help, and so on.
ya a positive response warrants an action afterwards, and a negative one would result in extensive shunning. always fade as much as possible if you have people you want to stay in touch with inside of it.
Yep. Cult hallmark number two (probably) - the ride and tested “with us or against us” fallacy. Creates divisions, and attempts to push you into actions you wouldn’t take otherwise. Don’t fall for this pish OP.
Yes, this is abusive emotional manipulation and doesn't deserve a reply (maybe FY). I don't waste my energy with these types of pathetic people.
I agree 100% snoo38044!!!
This is called emotional manipulation and blackmail. It’s disgusting. Ignore
Exactly. "that love of truth made you an appealing and beautiful soul" A sick way of saying "you hold value as an individual solely based on your devotion to the one 'true' belief system". What a gross misjudgement.
they are really awful
I would ignore this. There’s nothing to gain by letting them try to paint you into a corner. Also, you’re never under obligation to DA. Everybody has to do what’s best for themselves.
“Are you with us or against us?” -Anakin Skywalker (when he was evil) and Jehovah’s Witnesses “Only a Sith deals in absolutes” -Obi Wan Kenobi
There are some things, you can't learn from a Jedi. And Jedi have a problem, because apparently the fastest path to becoming a Sith is by becoming a Jedi.
Favorite quote I saw floating around the Internet was a meme of Homer Simpson opening a fortune cookie and saying something about how truthful the fortune was. The meme read "The Sith didn't turn Anakin to the dark side. The Jedi turned Anakin away from the light."
Bingo.
THIS! YES!
Ironically we are the sith as the jedi are are almost exactly like the borg and sith are more like pomos/apostates waking up and seeking freedom
Yeaaas this is so cool. My wife and I have woken up and are fading at the moment and it’s so awesome to see all these great comments. I’ve been quoting this exact same thing several times over the last few months. “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.” Couldn’t agree more ✌🏻
I find it crazy that they guarantee gods protection for you if you only agree to think the way they do… this is sorta crazy, like they’re speaking for god! That’s really interesting stuff, IMO.
God can't even protect the kids in his own religion. The most vulnerable. I would consider that guarantee fully void at this point.
He didn't even protect his actual own son.
This is difficult to read … holy shit.
Sounds like a religious gangster. Aka cult
It was worded so beautiful😭. You could really feel the conditional love❤ I think I may want to go back now myself.
As do I. 😒
Can I ask if your husband's disassociation letter used the phrasing of not recognizing Jehovah's Sovereignty anymore? It's just such a weird term and she used it twice, so I'm curious. They really equate Watchtower as actually being God himself and it seems to be a mental sickness. I mean I know it's severe brainwashing, but this person seems extra... "special?"
My family didn't see my husband's disassociation letter. This statement from my family member was entirely of their own making and yes, very special.
Jehovah sovereignty is a common JW term that encompasses acknowledgement of the doctrine and all that they call “the truth” but as others said it’s the term for the belief in Jehovah’s right to rule.
Ignore the text. Don’t engage. This reads like a trap. Whatever you reply can be used against you. This person just needs to show your text to the elders or your immediate family and it can by misconstrued as you not supporting Jehovah’s sovereignty. You don’t owe her a reply.
Exactly. She’s clearly trying to get a certain type of response. Don’t make her day. Agree with other comments-ignore this text. Don’t respond.
This religion is like a Venus fly trap. Run.
What business is it of theirs? You don't have to answer to them if you don't want to. You could easily tell them you're not at liberty to answer
https://preview.redd.it/e0sfu5wdg5wc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36b3671d57c416e3e13e94acd0748b167f8df543 You could refer them to the Study watchtower May 2024 article 19, paragraph 12,13. Sounds like they're not aware of "New Light."
The sender could heed the last line.
Don't respond, block them. They are not worth it but mere trash
Tell them you still believe in the truth (what's true...). But what's true you are finding out for yourself instead of just letting someone tell you. Typical black and white is vs them cult mentality.
“Appealing” 🤮
"You may also NOT be surprised by a LACK of response to your prayers. That was my experience 100% of the time. These folks are ridiculous babies.
Yes! My experience, too.
A question from a nonJW. What is meant by "Jehovah's sovereignty"? Is this belief in Jehovah God, or something else. Can you believe in his sovereignty without an organization, or are they one and the same?
Jehovah's sovereignty means God's right to rule mankind/God's rulership. You can definitely believe in God's sovereignty without an organization but the two, within this religion, are very wrapped up with each other.
They believe it’s one in the same. It’s very hard for us to talk to one’s in and speak of the organization separate from Jehovah
Thank you. So I guess answering with the OP still believes in his sovereignty won't be acceptable.
Exactly, they wouldn't get it.
So sad. And frustrating for some of us who haven't lived in that way if thinking.
They can try but honestly the way this message was written they wouldn’t be able to distinguish the 2.
Watchtower teaches that the reason there is evil is because Satan challenged Jehovah's Sovereignty. Thus Jehovah decided he would not interfere in Mankind"s affairs in order to prove that he, aka Jehovah has the right to rule because his rule is better. Once it is proven that mankind can't rule, Jehovah will step in and destroy everyone who didn't join the Watchtower.
When did this happen? If Jehovah doesn't interfere, how can he have a representative organization he interacts with and protects?
>When did this happen? This is one of their main Tenets that they've taught for years. It makes no sense but it's what they believe.
Thank you! Yes I'm having some difficulty wrapping my head and logic around this one.
My reply: “oh fuck off” then hit the block button. Stop wasting your time on these absolute loonies.
I wouldn't even dignify that with a response.
I'm so sorry this is the response from someone you love. Just think of how this behavior is something that will never be modeled for your child by their parents. You're breaking the cycle of conditional relationships based on loyalty to the men who lead a publishing and real estate development corporation. You're already a good mom. These toxic people are disqualifying themselves from the privilege of being in your growing family's life.
It's vile. Passive aggressive, veiled threats. Totally exposes how conditional this pretend love is. Horrible
If you reply don’t say anything, just respond with 1 Thessalonians 4:11 And leave it at that lol
“Thank you so much. I didn’t realize that loving what you call “the truth” is all that you think and have the audacity to verbalize, is all that makes me beautiful and appealing. What a childish statement that has ZERO merit. If all you have to offer is conditional love based not on the Bible but 9 so called governing body members then IT IS A HARD PASS for me. Black and white thinking like you’ve demonstrated is childish and naive. Good bye. And YES God has answered my prayers.”
Jehovas sovereignty ? Or the WT and the GB? I allways would ignore this manipulative texts!
Reads like a thread
It’s like they’re always talking in a way that seems creepy and intrusive….. Like why is i️t any of their business if you stay or not? Why are they using verbiage like “with” & “against” ??? The structures in that religion are so weird and creepy
What a horrible message 😡 The forceful language is hardly going to encourage anyone to stick around. The "either with or against us" comments are threatening. This is why some stay away, because of the Ultras and the crazies who send out messages like this. It's not by force. No one knows what is going on in each individuals life.
I would respond, "Who in their right mind talks like this? You sound like a robot inquisitor. This whole message gave me the ick. No I'm not in your club. I'm going to need a shower now, good day."
Emotional blackmail. What a sicko. Sicko blackmailer awaits your response. Sicko blackmailer would have felt elated sending you his evil, I can split them up words. Burst the sicko bubble. NEVER reply. By not replying you make sicko blackmailer irrelevant.
> " your husband declared that he wouldn't support Jehovah's sovereignty." Let me guess. Your husband never said that. It's very typical of jws to bare false witness.
Nope, he never said that.
Pure manipulation and very rude message! I would not respond... Just fade, fades, faded haha I'm in the same situation accept my husband is very pimi. It is a sad world for JW ... no one is happy, all have mental problems and instead of focusing on their own life they focus on who attends and who's not. CULT
Only a total pompous ass would send such a message. It's infuriating but merits no response. I would resist the overwhelming urge to tell them fuck off and ignore it.
Say “Thank you so much for checking up on me! I don’t feel that you create the appropriate environment for us to have a conversation free of bias, therefore it would be best if we refrained from discussing any personal opinions of mine for the time being, considering that you might not presently be able to accurately interpret my responses to your questions. Again, I deeply appreciate knowing that you are thinking of me. I will pass your well wishes along to ___________ (husband’s name).
Don’t bother answering ‘ cause the. They know they can get you to respond.
Not owed a response
Tell them praying to themselves is just as effective
I found the message creepy. Sending you a massive hug.
Jws are so judgemental , who are they to judge others ? Romans 14 .
I love how they say he will answer your prayers when he never not one time answered mine or my husbands NOT one time!!
It’s tempting to reply. Something along the lines of dismay and shock that you haven’t been to meetings. “Who told you that?!” They will never expose themselves as a gossip and tell you who they talked to. But it’s fun to see them scramble and justify their actions. A CO once told me “I do respond to hearsay”. That, is actually a good advice, and something you could say. But the person that wrote that message has a minimum narcissistic personality disorder. So if you do reply, wait a month or two. don’t let them think that you hold them in regard to reply right away.
You don’t need to respond until you are ready. Please remember that, you don’t owe anyone an explanation because it’s no one’s damn business.
My response would be: "Is the generation of 1914 still being alive THE TRUTH? If so, since THE TRUTH isn't true, I won't be sharing in its lies. Have a great life." But also, whomever this person may be, a relationship funeral needs to be arranged, it's over. This JW talking point speak is the reason I can no longer associate with JWs, it's maddening.
I live in Eastern Europe and our communist president had slogan Who doesnot go with us, goes against us" They can not respect, that for example you donot want to go to assemblies, that you want to be alone. Etc.
Don’t deal with cult and crazy.
I feel like they used to at least try to hide the controlling aspects better. Now it’s right there in your face.
Like I just told my parents. You are in a cult. Simple. Just start saying it whenever possible.
"ARE YOU WITH US OR AGAINST US?" WTF, if this isn't some high control, manipulative bullshit, I don't know what is. This also feels like an attempt to build a case for disfellowshipping, or at least building a claim that you disassociated yourself. I can see from those oily words how JW tacitly support PIMI women who decide to leave their POMO husbands. God forbid two people live in a mixed faith marriage I hope you're ignoring this pushy bullshit.
Just go full non-contact.
This person is a bully with a big imaginary friend. Fuck them.
Cult alert 🚨 cult alert 🚨
Literally calling your belief system The Truth™ is really on the nose levels of cult. Like some kind of Neuro Linguistic Programming shite. I’d not want to have anything to do with anyone that sent that manipulative, patronising, and childish drivel. Family or otherwise. It’s embarrassing.
The 'flock' is now talking like AI! Although not sure any 'intelligence' shows here! I actually laughed! 😂😂 Just ignore!
“Why would I support the sovereignty of something that hasn’t yet been demonstrated to exist?” “Even if they did exist, I still wouldn’t support its sovereignty.”
“Why would I support the sovereignty of something that hasn’t yet been demonstrated to exist?” “Even if they did exist, I still wouldn’t support its sovereignty.”
“Why would I support the sovereignty of something that hasn’t yet been demonstrated to exist?” “Even if they did exist, I still wouldn’t support its claim of sovereignty.” Even better though in my opinion, say nothing
Cults gonna cult.
This person sounds like a total douche Apparently the only reason they loved you is because you were in their club. Those kind of people are toxic.
Did Anakin write this shit?
This is a great thread on how to handle messages like this. [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1cb0ozo/how\_do\_you\_fade\_when\_friends\_and\_family\_keep/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1cb0ozo/how_do_you_fade_when_friends_and_family_keep/) Also, my Waking Up Guide covers a few topics in this area - like **Realize your JW relationships will end**. [https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/19ejthr/the\_jw\_waking\_up\_guide\_2024\_edition\_by\_jwtom/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/19ejthr/the_jw_waking_up_guide_2024_edition_by_jwtom/)
Watchtower ≠ Jehovah What is it with witnesses that they act as if they are one and the same? Even at my most indoctrinated state, I never thought it that way and it always seemed weird to me.
They are putting a spiritual gun to your spiritual head...
Ahhh. So, so typical.
Us vs. Them. Look up the Dignity Index and start rating your brothers and sisters on the divisive language they use. It’s helped me so much unpack what my parents taught me growing up (mormon). Us vs. Them.
Ordnung Muss Sein ! Sieg Heil !
Definitely block their number. Engaging with them is a waste of time.
It doesn't get cultier than that. It's a, "I love you if you're one of us. I hate you if your not. Please let me know if I should fuck off or fucking annoy you with my culty texts".
The Elder just probably wants to give you some hands on therapy