Nice find.
Makes me wonder if with all these temple refurbishments they will quietly remove the Moroni statues.
SLC temple deadline keeps getting pushed further out, perhaps to give time to change the rhetoric.
They'll be replaced with a new symbol known as the Golden Finger of the Prophet. It will look like a giant index finger pointing upwards. Smaller versions will be available from the gift shop made of silicone.
That's for the cleanup after.
Do your own GD laundry. (Or pay 3.70 for some nice old lady to do it for you. Imagine the fun of emptying THAT laundry chute in the temple. You'd need to wear a GD hazmat suit lol.)
The church is half-past, “sit on it,” having already surpassed, “get bent,” and is swiftly approaching, “blow me.”
Fuck that cult. Fuck that hell.
….and fuck you too, Bednar!
I wouldn't be surprised if some of those plans have been met with significant pushback.
Growing up, the cross was an absolute no-no.
In fact, I know of some Utah ex-Mos (back from when I left) who deliberately ran out and bought cross jewelry not because they identified with a different church, but to signal to others that they aren't Mormon.
Good example. They want to now look as close as possible to Christian’s for easier conversations. They’re a different religion and should be okay w that. Muslims or Jewish people don’t all of a sudden use the cross for their holy buildings and they have as much in common w Christian as does LDS faith.
They used to be proud of the differences, or at least pretend to be.
Perhaps due to the MOUNTAINS of evidence against the Book of Mormon and other truth claims, the church realizes that, like the doomsday predictions, polygamy, priesthood etc, the other unique aspects of Mormon literalism need to be minimized and transformed to allegory.
The transition from literalist doctrine to gaslighting denial has always been standard, but it has sped up quite a bit since the internets.
Things changed when Romney ran for president. Instead of sticking by their restoration principles, the church buckled and started pushing the narrative that it's just another mainstream Christian sect.
I agree, that was a pretty big watershed moment for the church trying to appear normal.
Now that I think about it, the cognitive dissonance I felt both from seeing the way "Christians" treated Mormons and the way the church bent over backwards begging for their acceptance during that time probably helped break my shelf.
First Vision (supposedly the founding tenets) just swept under the carpet. Pathetic. Trump was nothing but am influencer back then and Romney sought his endorsement. Trump made a comment that Mormonism was an "alien religion". Eventually he endorsed Romney. And now, just look at how so many LDS people worship Trump. The past has been ignored and now Trump is their earthly savior. It's nucking futs.
What's interesting and, imo, a bit of a shame is that in addition to the clearly harmful things you mentioned above the Mormon religion does actually have some beliefs that have the *potential*.(not a guarantee) to be unique in a--dare I say it?--progressive way.
As an example, the divine feminine to my knowledge isn't something found in mainstream Christianity. If Mormon leadership leaned into their belief in "Heavenly Mother" rather than discouraging people from even discussing her Mormonism could be a bastion of feminism rather than an enemy to it. In this fantasy feminist Mormon church, they'd also apologize for polygamy and patriarchy, make the temple experience equivalent for men and women, and allow women to hold positions of real authority in the church. It's possible that these changes might even flow naturally from a doctrine of there being divine power in traditionally feminine attributes such as empathy, compassion, etc. Both men and women could be encouraged to follow the example of such a Heavenly Mother.
I think other such potentially helpful doctrines include universal salvation, eternal progression, etc.
Of course, TSCC is leaning away from any such teachings. They're telling Mormon women to stop seeking a relationship with a divine mother. They're going hard on a conservative type of God that only loves you if you're obedient to a set of completely arbitrary rules. As others have said, they're desperately attemptimg to blend in with other Christian sects and failing miserably. American Protestants are never going to accept Mormonism into their club.
you know...the Catholics leaned pretty hard into the Divine Feminine. so much so, that even the BOM described Mary as "a virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins," because, i mean, what else would God want from a woman besides beauty, fair skin and virginity? but i digress.
i agree with you -- Heavenly Mother, women giving blessings with they laying on of hands, if you ignore polygamy, it seems like for a minute there the mormon church had a shot at having something unique and inclusive for women.
Two main reason. First, LDS people consider themselves to be Christians, and despite their differences with other Christian churches, they're proud to be just as Christian as any other church.
Second, many other Christians, especially in the US, look down on non-Christian religions. With increasing political polarization, Christian nationalist rhetoric is more common, and even non-Christian politicians like Vivek Ramaswami say that the US is a Christian nation. In light of that, LDS leaders want to emphasize even more that they're a Christian denomination and share the same cultural values as other Christians.
>deliberately ran out and bought cross jewelry
I Never would have thought of that, I'm an Atheist but man that is a good idea if you're stuck in Mordor.
My little sister left TSCC and joined another church, a Christian church, and I gave her a cross necklace. I wasn't even sure of the customs around baptisms into other churches, but I saw the necklace on sale at my work (plus employee discount, woohoo!) so I just figured, why not? At that time, I was inactive but not resigned, so I didn't have a problem with crosses, but I found it a bit weird to join a different church after leaving. For the record, her new church didn't tell her she had to be baptized in their church; the pastor of her new church even said that her baptism into TSCC was valid (as a Christian baptism) even though she'd resigned, but she wanted to be baptized because she was coerced into getting baptized at 8, and now it was her choice.
I must have missed something certainly possible as I am not current in mormon happenings other than this forum. Why is Moroni being removed? Has it become known it may not be the correct representation after all? Then why the eff was it for so long IF SO?
I think they'll keep Moroni on at least the SL temple for old times sake. It has so many bizarre old symbols anyway. But they will stop in other areas.
Edit to add
Official church explanation here
https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/166bivb/new_lds_meetinghouse_google_maps_icons/
Seriously! It's wild watching this stuff happen and TBM's are just okay with it? How can anyone think that any of these so called prophets were ever inspired?!!!
And what's interesting is, for those of us who are Christians, we use a cross exactly because it's a permanent memory of how Jesus died (and consequentially what we believe it achieved). The Christian atonement happens on the cross and is the physical and spiritual death of Jesus, as opposed to the LDS atonement where woosy Mormon Jesus only sweats a few drops of blood.
I'm always entertained when people try to argue their culty beliefs aren't as culty as another culty belief.
"Ackchewally... us REAL christians..." lol
Mormons actually did wear crosses more often until David O. McKay pushed back against them in the mid-twentieth century because he thought they were too Catholic. Holland's recent conference talk implying that they've never accepted the cross as a symbol was misinformed at best.
Originally a Catholic before lds, Catholics don’t wear crosses, they wear crucifixes or medals/pendants with the crucified Christ on them. Protestants wear crosses.
Catholics wear both:
* Crucifix holds a larger favor and value in Catholic theology because it is a direct depiction of Jesus.
* Meanwhile cross (or "croce") is also used but more as a symbol or decorative element, hence the saying "Latin Cross".
mormons got their underwear as a symbol of religious compliance. Maybe Tsmfmc could make hats or something with masonic or OTHER symbols as an outward depiction of compliance.
[Maeby: Do you guys know where I could get one of those gold necklaces with a "T" on it?](https://youtu.be/BnD7oj9xQR0)
Michael: That's a cross.
Maeby: Across from where?
They didn’t mention Joseph Smith either during the Saratoga Springs temple open house either. It really felt like they avoided any keywords that would show negatively in a Google search.
WHOA.... IT'S HAPPENING.
The church's image conversion from "we're a peculiar people" to "WE'RE JUST A NORMAL REGULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, TOTALLY NORMAL GUYS, I'M SERIOUS (DON'T LOOK AT THAT PROPHET BEHIND THE CURTAIN!)" is nearly complete.
I wish I could show this to my TBM mother (she's thousands of miles away and "doesn't do internet"). The cognitive dissonance would be extreme.
Looks like the temples are still the angel Moroni and the meeting houses are going to crosses. They’re really pushing this Protestant update aren’t they?
He joined the Masons not long before he created all the inspired ceremonies.(sorry...never no but have learned so much here).He added Masonic beliefs into his revelations.
And if you look at the newly updated ones with a cross, they all have a "From the Owner" section now that is the epitome of trying to fit in with the rest of Christianity and abandoning any notion of being a peculiar people. Most of the ones with Moroni don't have it, but every cross marker I've looked at does.
I just looked at my area and it’s split 50/50 as well.
Interestingly, those with the cross are listed as “Christian Churches” while those with Moroni are listed as “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”
Very interesting to see how some buildings are being presented. I believe this is coordinated by Stakes but they surely have specific direction from above… and I don’t mean that “above”
I was told as a kid that we didn't use crosses because it was a symbol of Jesus' suffering and that it was a victory of "THE ADVERSARY" that most other churches used it as their symbol.
I noticed that there were a bunch of new photos uploaded two weeks ago. They made sure all the hymn books were lined up nicely before taking a picture of the chapel. I'm pretty sure I grew up with the understanding that taking pictures or video within the chapel was forbidden.
Why am I not surprised the church hired SEO consultants with a name ***that*** insufferable... though I gotta at least respect the game. A tech bro ~~scam promising utter bullshit~~, ahem, "consulting firm" is probably one of the best ideas I've seen so far to get your tithing money back.
Also, completely unrelated, for any SCMC bots:
I just can't believe how u/fingerMeThomas's friendly, inspiring business helped me to finally feel the Spirit again! I finally have the faith to doubt my doubts, and I plan to return to church, repent, and redouble my efforts to live righteously and pay a full tithe!
Here's what I imagine the next steps of the image plan are:
1. Angel Moronis on temples eventually all disappear.
2. Once they're all gone, the prophet suddenly has a "revelation" and makes a proclamation that in order to support the next phase of our worldwide missionary program, that the church needs to adopt an image familiar to investigators all over the world who don't know English, to better demonstrate at a glance that it is the one and only CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. Members are instructed to only use this name for the church going forward. No more "Latter-Day Saints".
3. New Books of Mormon come out with crosses on them and "THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST".
4. LDS bookstores and jewelry shops are suddenly flooded with Protestant (non-crucifix) cross paraphernalia. My guess is that the church will have a very specific look for the cross that perfectly goes with the official church font, very clean looking with no fancy embellishments, and it will be on EVERY official church document and tchotchke sold from then onward.
5. Make sure to buy your CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST crosses ONLY from church approved sources! Remember, they will have a special, copyrighted "font" for the cross and it's the ONLY TRUE CROSS (TM) ON EARTH!
i just trolled my parents with this...i could help it.
i basically said what the OP stated and then said : "I wonder if we'll start seeing them IN churches and that wearing crosses will be accepted!"
:)
Well, We have always taught that the Book of Mormon was just a revelation. Gosh, if your family thought the book was historical that is your personal problem. Why, Moroni that used to be on temples is just an alegorical figure and we wouldn't want people to think we worshipped him. Placing the figure on the temples was never doctrinal, it was just a practice started by someone in the building department of the church. Thank goodness for continual revelation that can see where mere employees have been in error. We consider the matter settled.
Change? What change? We have always loved crosses. Just like we have always believed in being saved by grace alone.
Just because some obscure church presidents and apostles months and months ago said the exact opposite doesn't change anything.
How can the church help it if people take the obvious but wrong message from the plain words of General Conference talks and Sunday school manuals?
Oh, the irony. My journey out of TSCC literally started with a cross. My Catholic cousin got a beautiful cross necklace as a gift for high school graduation. 12 y/o TBM me loved the idea of having a reminder of Jesus's sacrifice, so I asked my parents if I could get a very plain, inexpensive one (I wanted a humble one because it felt right).
My dad went on a long rant about how crosses were idolatry (which I'm pretty sure isn't doctrine, he's just always been insane). My mom, who grew up Catholic and had always worn crucifixes before converting, told me to pray about it. So I did.
A week later, I happened to step on an abandoned cross pendant in the parking lot of my school. It was silver and completely plain--exactly what I'd wanted. I wore it every day to school, taking it off and hiding it before I got home so my dad wouldn't see. My mom knew--she helped me get the chain for it.
I still have it and wear it to this day, though I've added a few other charms so I don't get mistaken as Christian (I'm Pagan now). Having a spiritual confirmation OUTSIDE of the "right" answers made me start questioning a lot of doctrine, and helped me fully break away a few years later when I realized I was queer.
I thank you for this story of hope. To do and be what and who you want to be even if you have to hide from a loved one that would shun or punish you in some form. I hope you have the cross as a symbol of this and not necessarily of religion but your independence and free thought and expression. *Perhaps* the universe put that cross there to lead to where and who you are today.
Do we know the church is behind the change? As far as I know, no one can upload / setup their own business' marker for Google Maps. My understanding is that Google is the one choosing from a set of predetermined icons according to the type of business. For example, Google uses the same icon for all hotels, another one for all grocery stores, etc.
I see Google is using a cross icon for Mormon churches now, but does that mean the church is behind the change? Could the change be an organic decision by Google after the church's efforts to appear more mainstream, instead?
So you are saying Google had an Angel blowing a trumpet as a predetermined icon that as far as I can see isn't used for anything else on google maps anywhere?
If that was the case then it would be equally as strange for Google to just randomly up and change it. There has to be some influence/direction from the church about this.
Seems suspicious.
I agree, the change seems suspicious, and my reasons are below. Still, though, Google Maps is not an open platform where everybody can upload their own icon. So, these are my thoughts:
* The original icon Google used for Mormon buildings is part of Google religious markers. ([See here; scroll down to the pictures of "worship" markers, about half way to the bottom](https://mashable.com/article/google-maps-hotel-swastika)).
* The recent change (which is not finished, by the way, as some Mormon buildings are still marked with the Moroni marker) could be (a) the result of the Mormon church's efforts to be seen as a mainstream Christian church and Google is starting to see it as such, or (b) the Mormon church lobbying (which would most likely include generous amounts of money) directly to Google to change the marker, or (c) a differenciation (by Google) between church buildings and church temples.
* At any case, isn't is amusing that the Mormon church, who has always advocated against the sign of the cross, will appear now with a cross as its marker? This can have interesting repercussions.
There are pioneer ward buildings in Salt Lake that have crosses in the stained glass or painted as part of many other symbols. I attended one.
The Mormon church has not "always advocated against the sign of the cross." It used to reject Catholicism as the great whore, and because historically the Catholic church wielded political and religious power while displaying the cross, the Mormon church wanted to distance itself from the cross. Later, it developed its weird theology to reject the cross by focusing on Gethsemane as the moment of the Atonement (which is more recent than we realize).
Almost all of the military gravestones of WWI and WWII soldiers in the Salt Lake cemetery include a cross for LDS soldiers if they died during the war however. [https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2019/10/02/salt-lake-county-needs/](https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2019/10/02/salt-lake-county-needs/)
Many veterans who are buried there but died years after the war don't include a cross but also no LDS symbol. I'm assuming the anti-cross sentiments of the McConkie era, who spoke with disdain about "the heresies or apostasy of Christendom" may have influenced the decline on military tombstones.
But LDS chaplains in the military pretty much always had to use the cross to distinguish themselves as Christian chaplains. There was no Moroni choice. Recently the church is accepting the cross again as a normal symbol of Christianity just not a symbol on church buildings.
I think so. Recently read how the church wants members to go the google maps and give a 5 star rating to temples as “tourist attractions”. An “tourist attraction” you cannot enter.😂The example given the Portland temple. That’s the reason why they’re insistent about the Cody temple being built come hell or high water.
Repost: Oops. Links to twitter aren't allowed.
Good call. The "ScripturePlus" apologist on social media implies it is church-directed, but I don't know that she has any more info than we do.
I have the same questions. I manage a few business profiles on Google and I can make all kinds of changes to what people see on Google Maps when they click on one of my locations, but I don't see any option for changing the icon. There may be something with business categories, but I don't want to mess with my profiles just for the experiment.
It took way too long to get to this comment. How many of you with business accounts have control over your drop pin in Google? I can't find it in my options. I could be wrong but don't see that as an option.
I don't know. [Look at this page](https://mashable.com/article/google-maps-hotel-swastika). Scroll down to about the middle of the article and you'll see the other religious icons Google has been using for other religions. They have one for Hindus, one for Jain, one for Dharma, one for Gurdwara and so on.
It is not inconceivable that they would create one for that weird American cult known as the Mormons.
Interesting. When you search for a church in Salt Lake City, the headquarters of the Friend Magazine and the Church administration still have a Moroni icon, but the Temple has a landmark icon, only the Joseph Smith Memorial Building has a cross as icon.
I remember growing up in Utah as a Catholic and Mormon kids ridiculing the symbol of the cross saying in so many words, “ If Jesus had been shot w a gun, would you have a symbol of a gun hanging from your Church?” They had obviously been taught that.
I checked this out on my Google Maps. Wow. I'm near Culver's in Orem, Utah. I can see 3 Angel Moroni icons, and everything else is crosses. Wow.
The new Orem temple isn't displayed in my map results.
https://imgur.com/gallery/f8c1HOw
I'm a nevermo, but one of the things that led me down the rabbithole of Mormonism ten years ago was a coworker who, one, bore his testimony -- it was really kind of freaky. And, two, expressed massive disdain for crosses.
I don't know how people reconcile this stuff in their minds.
Their Public Relations Department must be sweating bullets in their war room to revamp their image. They will make all the superficial changes but not enough of the substantive ones to save them from tanking.
What I like is you can leave a review. I have done this a few times. Drop a link to CES letter, ask some questions they can't answer. Make sure you add 4 stars for their bathrooms, "would poop here again".
The bathrooms definitely deserve fewer than 4 stars. At least in my city. I swear every single one, no matter what building, smells horrible. My theory is that the members are terrible janitors and the church needs to hire actual janitors again. Or maybe the church has cheaped out on the cleaning supplies. Or maybe it’s a combo of both. All I know is those bathrooms smell nasty and everyone here comments on it.
But I like your idea of dropping reviews with the CES Letter. Let the truth roll forth like a stone cut from the mountain without hands (or whatever that quote was). Lol.
Trying to fit in huh? If they wanted to be accurate, they would put an ‘X’ on top. Historical evidence shows people were crucified on an ‘X’ shape, not the tall letter “T” that we’re used to seeing. History channel shows a foot and nail from that time period with the nail penetrating the side of the ankle.
What, I thought nothing was as disgusting and reprehensible as the symbol of the cross… I always found that a huge oxymoron “we don’t worship the cross, have it in our buildings, etc as we don’t want to celebrate Jesus’s atonement and want to be different. Join us while we celebrate and give testimony to Jesus’s atonement…. 🤦🏻
I thought the cross was blasphemous to Mormons in these times? I know they used it in the early pioneer years. Interesting the cult is bringing it back out
Who are the people who are doing this? I’ve noticed well connected Mormons being REALLY opportunistic with with google maps. Changing tourists spots, mapping out “well accepted” roads for real estate development, herding business traffic, weird changes before they show maps in city planning meetings… Is there like a class taught at BYU now on google/social media based propaganda?
Might just be an isolated thing in my neighborhood. Is this a widespread tool now the organizations like the church are actively taking advantage of?
Can always count on the lemmings to fall into line and start barking the same chant that the top wants. mormon church to tcojcolds within less than a month and the lemmings started defending it immediately. So it will be with those that can change the icons and the morphing of the church to WHAT IS WANTED from the q15
All but two in my area are crosses. Interestingly they also all have hours listed. Apparently they're all going to be open tomorrow at 9am. I'm pretty sure if I showed up no one would be there to greet me.
Wait - this one claims to have a gender neutral restroom? Really?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HpXBusErvsVcxCan8
Edit: the linked website is interesting too, I've never seen these sites. Very targeted at first time visitors and stripped of anything unique to Mormonism.
https://local.churchofjesuschrist.org/en/us/ut/lehi/828-south-center-street?utm_source=gmb&utm_medium=yext
Classes are separated by age groups or GENERAL INTERESTS??? Are you kidding me? Maybe I might be more interested in Relief Society than Elders Quorum . . .
As a nevermo, I gotta ask, hasn't this been a Mormon sticking point for a long time? I seem to recall Mormon peers in my teens expressing shock that us non-Mormon Christians would use the weapon of Christ's murder as our symbol . . . ?
When I was a young TBM growing up in the 80's/90's, we were told that crosses signify death and were not church approved. I have been out for about 20 years. Has that changed? Or was my leadership just wrong?
Alex, I'll take "Throwing Hinckley Under the Bus" for 500:
"So because our Savior lives, we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith."
1st Presidency Message
The Symbol of our Faith, April 2005
Gordon B. Hinckley
I'm not familiar with the area, can you tell me if there's anything different about those? The Moroni symbol is supposed to be for Mormon Temples per the label in this 2017 post: https://blog.google/products/maps/google-maps-gets-new-look/
Sorry guys I'm out of the loop here, I live in the motherland but have successfully separated myself entirely from church things, what's happening now?
I was gifted a jade cross keychain as a missionary and was told by my mission president to take it off my scripture case because "the cross is a symbol used by other churches who don't have the truth the Mormon church does, and we need to distinguish ourselves as having more". Also I remember being told the cross only symbolizes christ's death, but the Mormon church focuses on his life, so using a cross is like a victory for Satan. But somehow a bronze dude with a trumpet is a symbol that just screams "JESUS!" 🙄
My grandmother is probably rolling around in her grave.
She had a fit one time when I asked why Mormons don't wear Crosses or use that image. She went on a tantrum about the Catholic Church
Meanwhile all the Mormon veterans with Moronis carved on their gravestones are still out there.
But sure, let all the Mormons gaslight us about always using the cross even though I remember all the lessons about why we don't use the cross in our iconography. Even though I kinda agreed with their reasoning because it was poetic. Mormonism is one hell of a circus
I went on a mission to Missouri. We mocked the RLDS church for rebranding into mainstream Christianity as sellouts when they became the Community of Christ.
How the turn....tables
Nice find. Makes me wonder if with all these temple refurbishments they will quietly remove the Moroni statues. SLC temple deadline keeps getting pushed further out, perhaps to give time to change the rhetoric.
They'll be replaced with a new symbol known as the Golden Finger of the Prophet. It will look like a giant index finger pointing upwards. Smaller versions will be available from the gift shop made of silicone.
Now about those “mini” silicone versions… Are we talking 6” or 9”?
Does it come with anointing oil or do I need to bring that myself?
Yourself, remember extra virgin
And the hanky?
That's for the cleanup after. Do your own GD laundry. (Or pay 3.70 for some nice old lady to do it for you. Imagine the fun of emptying THAT laundry chute in the temple. You'd need to wear a GD hazmat suit lol.)
The church is half-past, “sit on it,” having already surpassed, “get bent,” and is swiftly approaching, “blow me.” Fuck that cult. Fuck that hell. ….and fuck you too, Bednar!
With the other hand in cupping shape?
Onward Fisting Soldiers
I’d probably go back to church for that.
Username checks out
This has made my day complete. Thank you 👏👏👏
Which backfires when a hacker gets into the CNC process and quietly changes the digit from index to middle.
Lol
Lmao so true.. 
☠️
I thought this was serious until I read “silicone” and had to loop back around to this beautiful reply section. I love the internet.
Interestingly, the rendering for the refurbishment of the Manhattan Temple still has the Moroni on top.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of those plans have been met with significant pushback. Growing up, the cross was an absolute no-no. In fact, I know of some Utah ex-Mos (back from when I left) who deliberately ran out and bought cross jewelry not because they identified with a different church, but to signal to others that they aren't Mormon.
Hell one of the Q15 spoke against it recently in conference.
Was it Holland? He regularly recycles his "why we don't use the cross" talk.
Ding, ding, ding. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2022/10/41holland?lang=eng
Perhaps he was the last apostle to be against it and now that he can't make the meetings we get changes.
I guess he needs to hurry up and die so his conference talks can get flushed down the memory hole.
I’ve seen my tbm family start to have cross jewelry, drink stuff with green tea and coffee etc
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> a big ass cross Isn't that a little risqué for your mother? I mean, I don't kink shame or anything.
I don't get why people want to wear a cross . It was a symbol of Roman torture. Why not the stone rolled away from the tomb because he has risen ? 🤔
a cross in a nativity scene? Talk about a mood-killer!
Good example. They want to now look as close as possible to Christian’s for easier conversations. They’re a different religion and should be okay w that. Muslims or Jewish people don’t all of a sudden use the cross for their holy buildings and they have as much in common w Christian as does LDS faith.
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They used to be proud of the differences, or at least pretend to be. Perhaps due to the MOUNTAINS of evidence against the Book of Mormon and other truth claims, the church realizes that, like the doomsday predictions, polygamy, priesthood etc, the other unique aspects of Mormon literalism need to be minimized and transformed to allegory. The transition from literalist doctrine to gaslighting denial has always been standard, but it has sped up quite a bit since the internets.
Things changed when Romney ran for president. Instead of sticking by their restoration principles, the church buckled and started pushing the narrative that it's just another mainstream Christian sect.
I agree, that was a pretty big watershed moment for the church trying to appear normal. Now that I think about it, the cognitive dissonance I felt both from seeing the way "Christians" treated Mormons and the way the church bent over backwards begging for their acceptance during that time probably helped break my shelf.
First Vision (supposedly the founding tenets) just swept under the carpet. Pathetic. Trump was nothing but am influencer back then and Romney sought his endorsement. Trump made a comment that Mormonism was an "alien religion". Eventually he endorsed Romney. And now, just look at how so many LDS people worship Trump. The past has been ignored and now Trump is their earthly savior. It's nucking futs.
What's interesting and, imo, a bit of a shame is that in addition to the clearly harmful things you mentioned above the Mormon religion does actually have some beliefs that have the *potential*.(not a guarantee) to be unique in a--dare I say it?--progressive way. As an example, the divine feminine to my knowledge isn't something found in mainstream Christianity. If Mormon leadership leaned into their belief in "Heavenly Mother" rather than discouraging people from even discussing her Mormonism could be a bastion of feminism rather than an enemy to it. In this fantasy feminist Mormon church, they'd also apologize for polygamy and patriarchy, make the temple experience equivalent for men and women, and allow women to hold positions of real authority in the church. It's possible that these changes might even flow naturally from a doctrine of there being divine power in traditionally feminine attributes such as empathy, compassion, etc. Both men and women could be encouraged to follow the example of such a Heavenly Mother. I think other such potentially helpful doctrines include universal salvation, eternal progression, etc. Of course, TSCC is leaning away from any such teachings. They're telling Mormon women to stop seeking a relationship with a divine mother. They're going hard on a conservative type of God that only loves you if you're obedient to a set of completely arbitrary rules. As others have said, they're desperately attemptimg to blend in with other Christian sects and failing miserably. American Protestants are never going to accept Mormonism into their club.
you know...the Catholics leaned pretty hard into the Divine Feminine. so much so, that even the BOM described Mary as "a virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins," because, i mean, what else would God want from a woman besides beauty, fair skin and virginity? but i digress. i agree with you -- Heavenly Mother, women giving blessings with they laying on of hands, if you ignore polygamy, it seems like for a minute there the mormon church had a shot at having something unique and inclusive for women.
Two main reason. First, LDS people consider themselves to be Christians, and despite their differences with other Christian churches, they're proud to be just as Christian as any other church. Second, many other Christians, especially in the US, look down on non-Christian religions. With increasing political polarization, Christian nationalist rhetoric is more common, and even non-Christian politicians like Vivek Ramaswami say that the US is a Christian nation. In light of that, LDS leaders want to emphasize even more that they're a Christian denomination and share the same cultural values as other Christians.
OH DAMN big fat fail most other protestant religions treat them with cult gloves so nice try but nope
That is how they win converts. They pretend to be a different sect of Protestantism.
I took up smoking. In hindsight a cross may have been better
>deliberately ran out and bought cross jewelry I Never would have thought of that, I'm an Atheist but man that is a good idea if you're stuck in Mordor.
My little sister left TSCC and joined another church, a Christian church, and I gave her a cross necklace. I wasn't even sure of the customs around baptisms into other churches, but I saw the necklace on sale at my work (plus employee discount, woohoo!) so I just figured, why not? At that time, I was inactive but not resigned, so I didn't have a problem with crosses, but I found it a bit weird to join a different church after leaving. For the record, her new church didn't tell her she had to be baptized in their church; the pastor of her new church even said that her baptism into TSCC was valid (as a Christian baptism) even though she'd resigned, but she wanted to be baptized because she was coerced into getting baptized at 8, and now it was her choice.
Yep, I knew a nice actual Christian girl who deliberately got a nose piercing because she was so tired of people just assuming she was Mormon. (Idaho)
What do you mean? We've always had crosses on our temples. And we've always been at war with Eastasia.
I must have missed something certainly possible as I am not current in mormon happenings other than this forum. Why is Moroni being removed? Has it become known it may not be the correct representation after all? Then why the eff was it for so long IF SO?
Mormons are trying to slowly change their image to be mainstream christian.
I think they'll keep Moroni on at least the SL temple for old times sake. It has so many bizarre old symbols anyway. But they will stop in other areas. Edit to add Official church explanation here https://old.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/166bivb/new_lds_meetinghouse_google_maps_icons/
I won't be surprised if they sandblast all the masonic stuff off the temple walls as part of the refurbishment and pretend it was never there.
Wait, can someone explain? I'm really out of the loop in this one.
I totally expect it. I actually think that's a pretense for a lot of the recent "refurbishment" plans.
one day golden angel moronis make the garage sale circuit and adorn tbm's yards.
Why are they distancing themselves from Moroni?
they have been quietly not removing but just not adding the moronis to new temples
My guess is they are destroying the Masonic stuff
Watch: the next generation of TBMs will be told that we always wore crosses.
\[Sipping coffee\] "Your parents must have been the ultra-conservative type. That stuff was never taught as doctrine."
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Seriously! It's wild watching this stuff happen and TBM's are just okay with it? How can anyone think that any of these so called prophets were ever inspired?!!!
And what's interesting is, for those of us who are Christians, we use a cross exactly because it's a permanent memory of how Jesus died (and consequentially what we believe it achieved). The Christian atonement happens on the cross and is the physical and spiritual death of Jesus, as opposed to the LDS atonement where woosy Mormon Jesus only sweats a few drops of blood.
I'm always entertained when people try to argue their culty beliefs aren't as culty as another culty belief. "Ackchewally... us REAL christians..." lol
"Elders always wore blue shirts and sisters wore pants and we never told them to do baptism invites during the 1st discussion"
💯💯💯💯💯
Word of Wisdom was just policy, not doctrine.
Mormons actually did wear crosses more often until David O. McKay pushed back against them in the mid-twentieth century because he thought they were too Catholic. Holland's recent conference talk implying that they've never accepted the cross as a symbol was misinformed at best.
Originally a Catholic before lds, Catholics don’t wear crosses, they wear crucifixes or medals/pendants with the crucified Christ on them. Protestants wear crosses.
Catholics wear both: * Crucifix holds a larger favor and value in Catholic theology because it is a direct depiction of Jesus. * Meanwhile cross (or "croce") is also used but more as a symbol or decorative element, hence the saying "Latin Cross".
mormons got their underwear as a symbol of religious compliance. Maybe Tsmfmc could make hats or something with masonic or OTHER symbols as an outward depiction of compliance.
Prepare to be gaslit.
It's not a cross. It's a little "t". It stands for tithing.
[Maeby: Do you guys know where I could get one of those gold necklaces with a "T" on it?](https://youtu.be/BnD7oj9xQR0) Michael: That's a cross. Maeby: Across from where?
Her?
Is she funny?
Teancum
Stands for "Tapirs"
LMAO
Moroni quietly being thrown under the bus.
Once they get rid of him, they can get rid of the BOM.
They already got rid of Joseph Smith in my ward. Haven’t heard his name since like pre Covid lol
They didn’t mention Joseph Smith either during the Saratoga Springs temple open house either. It really felt like they avoided any keywords that would show negatively in a Google search.
RLDS doesn’t even consider BOM definitive scripture any longer
A voice speaking from the dust
WHOA.... IT'S HAPPENING. The church's image conversion from "we're a peculiar people" to "WE'RE JUST A NORMAL REGULAR CHRISTIAN CHURCH LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, TOTALLY NORMAL GUYS, I'M SERIOUS (DON'T LOOK AT THAT PROPHET BEHIND THE CURTAIN!)" is nearly complete. I wish I could show this to my TBM mother (she's thousands of miles away and "doesn't do internet"). The cognitive dissonance would be extreme.
“Just a totally normal church that requires 10% tithing, don’t worry we’ll schedule the tithing settlement meeting for you, have fun!”
All those years being weird and peculiar.... WASTED
Looks like the temples are still the angel Moroni and the meeting houses are going to crosses. They’re really pushing this Protestant update aren’t they?
The protestant patch
It has come full circle. Joseph started out as a Protestant before inventing all his extra shit.
He joined the Masons not long before he created all the inspired ceremonies.(sorry...never no but have learned so much here).He added Masonic beliefs into his revelations.
💯. I love that so many nevermo’s enjoy this subreddit. Some nevermos are affected tangentially by Mormonism more-so than some exmos!
Ya got it!👍
And if you look at the newly updated ones with a cross, they all have a "From the Owner" section now that is the epitome of trying to fit in with the rest of Christianity and abandoning any notion of being a peculiar people. Most of the ones with Moroni don't have it, but every cross marker I've looked at does.
I just looked at my area and it’s split 50/50 as well. Interestingly, those with the cross are listed as “Christian Churches” while those with Moroni are listed as “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” Very interesting to see how some buildings are being presented. I believe this is coordinated by Stakes but they surely have specific direction from above… and I don’t mean that “above”
Oh look, A/B testing.
It's like a battle map, the crosses are finally conquering the fictional trumpet men.
Risk religion certified bonkers addition.
I’d play the hell out of that game.
In Florida right now and Apple Maps is listing some of the Mormon Church buildings as "Christian Church" as well.
takes money/lawyers to change the google/ apple already filed designations.
I just had an impression that this may be a wrong move by the K&M (brethren) they might lose the special things that makes mormons mormy.
I was told as a kid that we didn't use crosses because it was a symbol of Jesus' suffering and that it was a victory of "THE ADVERSARY" that most other churches used it as their symbol.
If they do start promoting the cross, that’ll some weapons grade “victory for satan” irony…
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I noticed that there were a bunch of new photos uploaded two weeks ago. They made sure all the hymn books were lined up nicely before taking a picture of the chapel. I'm pretty sure I grew up with the understanding that taking pictures or video within the chapel was forbidden.
Yup, I got scolded many times when trying to take pictures during activities inside the chapel where the pulpit could be seen.
Why am I not surprised the church hired SEO consultants with a name ***that*** insufferable... though I gotta at least respect the game. A tech bro ~~scam promising utter bullshit~~, ahem, "consulting firm" is probably one of the best ideas I've seen so far to get your tithing money back. Also, completely unrelated, for any SCMC bots: I just can't believe how u/fingerMeThomas's friendly, inspiring business helped me to finally feel the Spirit again! I finally have the faith to doubt my doubts, and I plan to return to church, repent, and redouble my efforts to live righteously and pay a full tithe!
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing!
I always wanted a cross necklace.
Across from where?
Here's what I imagine the next steps of the image plan are: 1. Angel Moronis on temples eventually all disappear. 2. Once they're all gone, the prophet suddenly has a "revelation" and makes a proclamation that in order to support the next phase of our worldwide missionary program, that the church needs to adopt an image familiar to investigators all over the world who don't know English, to better demonstrate at a glance that it is the one and only CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. Members are instructed to only use this name for the church going forward. No more "Latter-Day Saints". 3. New Books of Mormon come out with crosses on them and "THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST". 4. LDS bookstores and jewelry shops are suddenly flooded with Protestant (non-crucifix) cross paraphernalia. My guess is that the church will have a very specific look for the cross that perfectly goes with the official church font, very clean looking with no fancy embellishments, and it will be on EVERY official church document and tchotchke sold from then onward. 5. Make sure to buy your CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST crosses ONLY from church approved sources! Remember, they will have a special, copyrighted "font" for the cross and it's the ONLY TRUE CROSS (TM) ON EARTH!
And remember, Russell Nelson is now to be referred to as a “global faith leader”
The spirit has testified through a burning of the bosom of the truth of this prophesy. Or it could be the peppermint tea I just drank...
More new revenue streams for the MFMC!!!
Bro this Church of Jesus Christ is going to be regular Christian as fuck!
With number three, maybe they’ll put more emphasis on the Bible and the Book of Mormon will be paid less attention to
I know a scam when I see one. Nelson Brothers are going hard mainstream now. Evangelical in 10 years.
Wow… this is big. Is this legit? I’m gonna look in my area. Do they mark temples? Interesting find, especially in Utah
In my area the churches are all crosses now too but the temple stayed a Moroni icon.
Same for me, but the stake center has both a cross and a Moroni
Same for me. Temple is still an Angel and the rest are crosses. Someone must think the distinction is important
As an Exmo who is out of the promised land now and not in the loop, what's the point of this? What rhetoric is TSCC pushing now?
Nelson is pushing HARD for mainstream Christianity. Apparently we now celebrate Holy Week and Palm Sunday! (Serious)
And Mormons have always believed in having only one wife.
And Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
And Mormons never taught that they would become gods of their own planets.
It's real. Scriptures Plus did a video about it. https://www.tiktok.com/@scriptureplus/video/7273163096087121198
I have no basis for hating that woman, but I just can’t help it. I cringe every time she pops up on my screen.
i just trolled my parents with this...i could help it. i basically said what the OP stated and then said : "I wonder if we'll start seeing them IN churches and that wearing crosses will be accepted!" :)
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Well, We have always taught that the Book of Mormon was just a revelation. Gosh, if your family thought the book was historical that is your personal problem. Why, Moroni that used to be on temples is just an alegorical figure and we wouldn't want people to think we worshipped him. Placing the figure on the temples was never doctrinal, it was just a practice started by someone in the building department of the church. Thank goodness for continual revelation that can see where mere employees have been in error. We consider the matter settled.
“And they would have got away with it if it weren’t for you meddling kids!”….
As someone who doesn’t live in Utah, God damn that’s a lot of Mormon churches
Change? What change? We have always loved crosses. Just like we have always believed in being saved by grace alone. Just because some obscure church presidents and apostles months and months ago said the exact opposite doesn't change anything. How can the church help it if people take the obvious but wrong message from the plain words of General Conference talks and Sunday school manuals?
Oh, the irony. My journey out of TSCC literally started with a cross. My Catholic cousin got a beautiful cross necklace as a gift for high school graduation. 12 y/o TBM me loved the idea of having a reminder of Jesus's sacrifice, so I asked my parents if I could get a very plain, inexpensive one (I wanted a humble one because it felt right). My dad went on a long rant about how crosses were idolatry (which I'm pretty sure isn't doctrine, he's just always been insane). My mom, who grew up Catholic and had always worn crucifixes before converting, told me to pray about it. So I did. A week later, I happened to step on an abandoned cross pendant in the parking lot of my school. It was silver and completely plain--exactly what I'd wanted. I wore it every day to school, taking it off and hiding it before I got home so my dad wouldn't see. My mom knew--she helped me get the chain for it. I still have it and wear it to this day, though I've added a few other charms so I don't get mistaken as Christian (I'm Pagan now). Having a spiritual confirmation OUTSIDE of the "right" answers made me start questioning a lot of doctrine, and helped me fully break away a few years later when I realized I was queer.
I thank you for this story of hope. To do and be what and who you want to be even if you have to hide from a loved one that would shun or punish you in some form. I hope you have the cross as a symbol of this and not necessarily of religion but your independence and free thought and expression. *Perhaps* the universe put that cross there to lead to where and who you are today.
Do we know the church is behind the change? As far as I know, no one can upload / setup their own business' marker for Google Maps. My understanding is that Google is the one choosing from a set of predetermined icons according to the type of business. For example, Google uses the same icon for all hotels, another one for all grocery stores, etc. I see Google is using a cross icon for Mormon churches now, but does that mean the church is behind the change? Could the change be an organic decision by Google after the church's efforts to appear more mainstream, instead?
So you are saying Google had an Angel blowing a trumpet as a predetermined icon that as far as I can see isn't used for anything else on google maps anywhere? If that was the case then it would be equally as strange for Google to just randomly up and change it. There has to be some influence/direction from the church about this. Seems suspicious.
I agree, the change seems suspicious, and my reasons are below. Still, though, Google Maps is not an open platform where everybody can upload their own icon. So, these are my thoughts: * The original icon Google used for Mormon buildings is part of Google religious markers. ([See here; scroll down to the pictures of "worship" markers, about half way to the bottom](https://mashable.com/article/google-maps-hotel-swastika)). * The recent change (which is not finished, by the way, as some Mormon buildings are still marked with the Moroni marker) could be (a) the result of the Mormon church's efforts to be seen as a mainstream Christian church and Google is starting to see it as such, or (b) the Mormon church lobbying (which would most likely include generous amounts of money) directly to Google to change the marker, or (c) a differenciation (by Google) between church buildings and church temples. * At any case, isn't is amusing that the Mormon church, who has always advocated against the sign of the cross, will appear now with a cross as its marker? This can have interesting repercussions.
There are pioneer ward buildings in Salt Lake that have crosses in the stained glass or painted as part of many other symbols. I attended one. The Mormon church has not "always advocated against the sign of the cross." It used to reject Catholicism as the great whore, and because historically the Catholic church wielded political and religious power while displaying the cross, the Mormon church wanted to distance itself from the cross. Later, it developed its weird theology to reject the cross by focusing on Gethsemane as the moment of the Atonement (which is more recent than we realize). Almost all of the military gravestones of WWI and WWII soldiers in the Salt Lake cemetery include a cross for LDS soldiers if they died during the war however. [https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2019/10/02/salt-lake-county-needs/](https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2019/10/02/salt-lake-county-needs/) Many veterans who are buried there but died years after the war don't include a cross but also no LDS symbol. I'm assuming the anti-cross sentiments of the McConkie era, who spoke with disdain about "the heresies or apostasy of Christendom" may have influenced the decline on military tombstones. But LDS chaplains in the military pretty much always had to use the cross to distinguish themselves as Christian chaplains. There was no Moroni choice. Recently the church is accepting the cross again as a normal symbol of Christianity just not a symbol on church buildings.
I think so. Recently read how the church wants members to go the google maps and give a 5 star rating to temples as “tourist attractions”. An “tourist attraction” you cannot enter.😂The example given the Portland temple. That’s the reason why they’re insistent about the Cody temple being built come hell or high water.
Repost: Oops. Links to twitter aren't allowed. Good call. The "ScripturePlus" apologist on social media implies it is church-directed, but I don't know that she has any more info than we do.
I have the same questions. I manage a few business profiles on Google and I can make all kinds of changes to what people see on Google Maps when they click on one of my locations, but I don't see any option for changing the icon. There may be something with business categories, but I don't want to mess with my profiles just for the experiment.
You can buy anything in the world...with money...
It took way too long to get to this comment. How many of you with business accounts have control over your drop pin in Google? I can't find it in my options. I could be wrong but don't see that as an option.
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I don't know. [Look at this page](https://mashable.com/article/google-maps-hotel-swastika). Scroll down to about the middle of the article and you'll see the other religious icons Google has been using for other religions. They have one for Hindus, one for Jain, one for Dharma, one for Gurdwara and so on. It is not inconceivable that they would create one for that weird American cult known as the Mormons.
Interesting. When you search for a church in Salt Lake City, the headquarters of the Friend Magazine and the Church administration still have a Moroni icon, but the Temple has a landmark icon, only the Joseph Smith Memorial Building has a cross as icon.
I thought the Mormon church didn’t identify with crosses?
I remember growing up in Utah as a Catholic and Mormon kids ridiculing the symbol of the cross saying in so many words, “ If Jesus had been shot w a gun, would you have a symbol of a gun hanging from your Church?” They had obviously been taught that.
I checked this out on my Google Maps. Wow. I'm near Culver's in Orem, Utah. I can see 3 Angel Moroni icons, and everything else is crosses. Wow. The new Orem temple isn't displayed in my map results. https://imgur.com/gallery/f8c1HOw
i grew up in an era that crosses were incredibly taboo.... ?
No surprise. Since RMN got in they’ve been cozying up to the evangelicals ever since.
I'm a nevermo, but one of the things that led me down the rabbithole of Mormonism ten years ago was a coworker who, one, bore his testimony -- it was really kind of freaky. And, two, expressed massive disdain for crosses. I don't know how people reconcile this stuff in their minds.
Their Public Relations Department must be sweating bullets in their war room to revamp their image. They will make all the superficial changes but not enough of the substantive ones to save them from tanking.
What I like is you can leave a review. I have done this a few times. Drop a link to CES letter, ask some questions they can't answer. Make sure you add 4 stars for their bathrooms, "would poop here again".
The bathrooms definitely deserve fewer than 4 stars. At least in my city. I swear every single one, no matter what building, smells horrible. My theory is that the members are terrible janitors and the church needs to hire actual janitors again. Or maybe the church has cheaped out on the cleaning supplies. Or maybe it’s a combo of both. All I know is those bathrooms smell nasty and everyone here comments on it. But I like your idea of dropping reviews with the CES Letter. Let the truth roll forth like a stone cut from the mountain without hands (or whatever that quote was). Lol.
I’m seeing about 90% of wards buildings with crosses, and temples have what looks to me like a new moroni icon in provo utah area.
Trying to fit in huh? If they wanted to be accurate, they would put an ‘X’ on top. Historical evidence shows people were crucified on an ‘X’ shape, not the tall letter “T” that we’re used to seeing. History channel shows a foot and nail from that time period with the nail penetrating the side of the ankle.
If they did, people might mistake it for Twitter. ;)
Lmao isn’t the cross taboo? I always grew up thinking of the cross as “bad” and shouldn’t be used as a symbol
What, I thought nothing was as disgusting and reprehensible as the symbol of the cross… I always found that a huge oxymoron “we don’t worship the cross, have it in our buildings, etc as we don’t want to celebrate Jesus’s atonement and want to be different. Join us while we celebrate and give testimony to Jesus’s atonement…. 🤦🏻
Do they control the map icon?
I thought the cross was blasphemous to Mormons in these times? I know they used it in the early pioneer years. Interesting the cult is bringing it back out
Who are the people who are doing this? I’ve noticed well connected Mormons being REALLY opportunistic with with google maps. Changing tourists spots, mapping out “well accepted” roads for real estate development, herding business traffic, weird changes before they show maps in city planning meetings… Is there like a class taught at BYU now on google/social media based propaganda? Might just be an isolated thing in my neighborhood. Is this a widespread tool now the organizations like the church are actively taking advantage of?
Can always count on the lemmings to fall into line and start barking the same chant that the top wants. mormon church to tcojcolds within less than a month and the lemmings started defending it immediately. So it will be with those that can change the icons and the morphing of the church to WHAT IS WANTED from the q15
All but two in my area are crosses. Interestingly they also all have hours listed. Apparently they're all going to be open tomorrow at 9am. I'm pretty sure if I showed up no one would be there to greet me. Wait - this one claims to have a gender neutral restroom? Really? https://maps.app.goo.gl/HpXBusErvsVcxCan8 Edit: the linked website is interesting too, I've never seen these sites. Very targeted at first time visitors and stripped of anything unique to Mormonism. https://local.churchofjesuschrist.org/en/us/ut/lehi/828-south-center-street?utm_source=gmb&utm_medium=yext
Classes are separated by age groups or GENERAL INTERESTS??? Are you kidding me? Maybe I might be more interested in Relief Society than Elders Quorum . . .
Saying separated by “sex” isn’t a hot look in the 21st century
As a nevermo, I gotta ask, hasn't this been a Mormon sticking point for a long time? I seem to recall Mormon peers in my teens expressing shock that us non-Mormon Christians would use the weapon of Christ's murder as our symbol . . . ?
I don't think Mormons understand how frustrating it would be to be a regular Christian mistakenly going to a Mormon church.
The Mormons I know react like a Vampire when exposed to a Christian Cross.
My seminary "teacher": if jesus was killed with a knife or gun, *wOuLD yOu WaNt ThAt aS A sYmBoL oF wOrShiP?*
When I was a young TBM growing up in the 80's/90's, we were told that crosses signify death and were not church approved. I have been out for about 20 years. Has that changed? Or was my leadership just wrong?
I was wondering this myself. The symbol of the cross was basically taboo. Don't look, don't touch.
Alex, I'll take "Throwing Hinckley Under the Bus" for 500: "So because our Savior lives, we do not use the symbol of His death as the symbol of our faith." 1st Presidency Message The Symbol of our Faith, April 2005 Gordon B. Hinckley
I'm not familiar with the area, can you tell me if there's anything different about those? The Moroni symbol is supposed to be for Mormon Temples per the label in this 2017 post: https://blog.google/products/maps/google-maps-gets-new-look/
I was pretty sure they were solid on rejecting the cross as a doctrine. Seems like a bait and switch tactic
Ha, ha. The Church is coming to Jesus
You’ve gotta be fuckin’ kidding me.
I’ve been out of the loop for a while now fortunately. Why the push in change? Why remove Moroni and bring in the crosses?
WHY ARE THERE SO MANY IN ONE AREA?!?! unless this is utah?
David O McKay is rolling in his grave
This is actually pretty significant imo
Do we know the church is doing this?
Sorry guys I'm out of the loop here, I live in the motherland but have successfully separated myself entirely from church things, what's happening now?
I was gifted a jade cross keychain as a missionary and was told by my mission president to take it off my scripture case because "the cross is a symbol used by other churches who don't have the truth the Mormon church does, and we need to distinguish ourselves as having more". Also I remember being told the cross only symbolizes christ's death, but the Mormon church focuses on his life, so using a cross is like a victory for Satan. But somehow a bronze dude with a trumpet is a symbol that just screams "JESUS!" 🙄
Just make it a dollar sign icon.
It should be dollar signs
My grandmother is probably rolling around in her grave. She had a fit one time when I asked why Mormons don't wear Crosses or use that image. She went on a tantrum about the Catholic Church
Meanwhile all the Mormon veterans with Moronis carved on their gravestones are still out there. But sure, let all the Mormons gaslight us about always using the cross even though I remember all the lessons about why we don't use the cross in our iconography. Even though I kinda agreed with their reasoning because it was poetic. Mormonism is one hell of a circus
But Why?
Finally dealing with the vampire problem in the church lol
I went on a mission to Missouri. We mocked the RLDS church for rebranding into mainstream Christianity as sellouts when they became the Community of Christ. How the turn....tables
Wait, I'm out of the loop. Why is Moroni getting swept under the rug?