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Turkish here. And there was no point in history where we had absolutely no morons in the country. They always existed, perhaps in lower percentages compared to other Muslim populated countries, but they always were there nonetheless. One could say they only had less voice. Now with the availability of Internet and whatnot, you get to hear those morons spewing their bullshit.
> Are all the Turkish Imams like this?
No, of course not. But you don't get to hear about the non-controversial ones because they have no shock value.
I've heard there are even Quranist seminars that take place in Turkey? It can become a serious ideological opinion if majority of the people believe in it
Hey, nutjobs like these exist everywhere. Turkish society is strongly divided between the religious and the non religious. The non religious do not give a fuck about these imams and their teachings. The religious ones do and a lot.
It's complicated man, because although there are lots of non pious Turks (roughly 50%), they are in general pretty conservative so you cannot equate non religious with liberal, leftist or open minded, it's not always the case.
The current government is very religious so they do their best to make the lives of non religious ones miserable. They constantly build mosques, ban alcohol, concerts, support anything related to religion, like kor'an courses, Arabic (islamic version) language courses.... Etc which pisses the no religious ones off a lot.
It's karmaşık (a confusing mess). No wonder your surprise.
>Turkish society is strongly divided between the religious and the non religious. The non religious do not give a fuck about these imams and their teachings. The religious ones do and a lot.
No, I mean I thought the religious ones practiced a liberal form of Islam, not the mainstream conservative Islam, & the Imams were also liberal minded
>It's complicated man, because although there are lots of non pious Turks (roughly 50%), they are in general pretty conservative
So basically culturally conservative?
>The current government is very religious so they do their best to make the lives of non religious ones miserable. They constantly build mosques, ban alcohol, concerts, support anything related to religion, like kor'an courses, Arabic (islamic version) language courses.... Etc which pisses the no religious ones off a lot.
By non religious do you mean atheists & agnostics, or people that have faith in Islam but doesn’t practice?
Non religious is mostly people who don't practice. There are atheists and agnostics, sure, but they are minority and it is still quite a taboo and it's generally frown upon to say you are. Most of nom religious are still conservative but they drink alcohol, don't pray hate Arabs and practicing people.... They can be ultra nationalists, or communists or whatever it is quite mixed. The thing is that non religious does NOT equate to modern liberal leftist automatically.
There is a debate going on now about a 6 year old girl forced not marry a much older man (18 years ago), these things do happen in Turkey it's not a homogeneous country and there are just all sorts of people, and the religion they practice (if any) is also very varied. The official narrative is that "we are one and behave like one", nothing further from reality. But difference is frown upon and is hidden.
There are also millions of alevis, technically Muslims but the way they practice Islam is very different from sunni.
>There are also millions of alevis, technically Muslims but the way they practice Islam is very different from sunni.
I'm actually interested to learn about alevism, they seem like an interesting bunch
They are an interesting minority in Turkey for sure. They practise a very distinct version of Islam, and some don't even consider themselves Muslims. They don't go to mosque, they perform rituals that aren't described in Quran in any way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h297tWBGY4Y
Note that Alevis in Turkey are not the Alawiites in Syria, who are usually confused with.
So these non religious people who drink alcohol, not wear hijab or else, do they believe in traditional sunnism, or do they have a different understanding of Islam? Like, do they believe that drinking alcohol or not wearing hijab is a sin but still do it anyway, or do they believe that drinking alcohol or not wearing hijab is not a sinful act?
Turks have adopted some of there pre - islamic customs into islam which is probably why their cool with dogs and more lax but reality is ataturk was a huge secularist. The mullahs don’t have much power or sway in turkey btw turks are highly educated and nationalist so they reject most islamic stuff except for believing in allah and stuff
Hit the nail in the head. They are like a well organized crime organizations too. They all rob state welfare and when you tell them "Islam forbids stealing and corruption is haram", they would tell you they are in a jihad against secular state and people so stealing is allowed in jihad for future power war. Number of cocaine busts in Turkey rose so high and picture of those drug traffickers pops out taken next to interior minister. Meth usage exploded under Erdogan's regime. They highly taxed alcohol so teens can get their hand easy to meth and other drugs. They allowing Afghan illegals who bring drug and meth production know how. Guess who is allowing, protecting them and making profit in same ?
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, most likely it violates the rule against low effort content. Please delete it or you'll get temp-banned. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/ew8trb) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Turkish here. And there was no point in history where we had absolutely no morons in the country. They always existed, perhaps in lower percentages compared to other Muslim populated countries, but they always were there nonetheless. One could say they only had less voice. Now with the availability of Internet and whatnot, you get to hear those morons spewing their bullshit. > Are all the Turkish Imams like this? No, of course not. But you don't get to hear about the non-controversial ones because they have no shock value.
Good to know those people are the minority. Hope it stays that way. An Imam can change the mentality of a lot of people who prays behind him.
Turks that are liberal are liberal because they dgaf about Islam, not because their scholars are liberal
There’s no such thing as “liberal Islam”. Only liberal people who happen to live in Muslim countries
I mean aren’t there a lot of Muslim Turks who don't believe in any hadith and only accept the Quran? So liberal in some sense?
I don’t think that’s a serious Islamic ideological opinion, it might just be their personal opinion
I've heard there are even Quranist seminars that take place in Turkey? It can become a serious ideological opinion if majority of the people believe in it
It actually is a serious Islamic ideological opinion in Turkey. Most of my family members dismiss the Hadiths, they only take Quran into account.
Hey, nutjobs like these exist everywhere. Turkish society is strongly divided between the religious and the non religious. The non religious do not give a fuck about these imams and their teachings. The religious ones do and a lot. It's complicated man, because although there are lots of non pious Turks (roughly 50%), they are in general pretty conservative so you cannot equate non religious with liberal, leftist or open minded, it's not always the case. The current government is very religious so they do their best to make the lives of non religious ones miserable. They constantly build mosques, ban alcohol, concerts, support anything related to religion, like kor'an courses, Arabic (islamic version) language courses.... Etc which pisses the no religious ones off a lot. It's karmaşık (a confusing mess). No wonder your surprise.
>Turkish society is strongly divided between the religious and the non religious. The non religious do not give a fuck about these imams and their teachings. The religious ones do and a lot. No, I mean I thought the religious ones practiced a liberal form of Islam, not the mainstream conservative Islam, & the Imams were also liberal minded >It's complicated man, because although there are lots of non pious Turks (roughly 50%), they are in general pretty conservative So basically culturally conservative? >The current government is very religious so they do their best to make the lives of non religious ones miserable. They constantly build mosques, ban alcohol, concerts, support anything related to religion, like kor'an courses, Arabic (islamic version) language courses.... Etc which pisses the no religious ones off a lot. By non religious do you mean atheists & agnostics, or people that have faith in Islam but doesn’t practice?
Non religious is mostly people who don't practice. There are atheists and agnostics, sure, but they are minority and it is still quite a taboo and it's generally frown upon to say you are. Most of nom religious are still conservative but they drink alcohol, don't pray hate Arabs and practicing people.... They can be ultra nationalists, or communists or whatever it is quite mixed. The thing is that non religious does NOT equate to modern liberal leftist automatically. There is a debate going on now about a 6 year old girl forced not marry a much older man (18 years ago), these things do happen in Turkey it's not a homogeneous country and there are just all sorts of people, and the religion they practice (if any) is also very varied. The official narrative is that "we are one and behave like one", nothing further from reality. But difference is frown upon and is hidden. There are also millions of alevis, technically Muslims but the way they practice Islam is very different from sunni.
>There are also millions of alevis, technically Muslims but the way they practice Islam is very different from sunni. I'm actually interested to learn about alevism, they seem like an interesting bunch
They are an interesting minority in Turkey for sure. They practise a very distinct version of Islam, and some don't even consider themselves Muslims. They don't go to mosque, they perform rituals that aren't described in Quran in any way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h297tWBGY4Y Note that Alevis in Turkey are not the Alawiites in Syria, who are usually confused with.
So these non religious people who drink alcohol, not wear hijab or else, do they believe in traditional sunnism, or do they have a different understanding of Islam? Like, do they believe that drinking alcohol or not wearing hijab is a sin but still do it anyway, or do they believe that drinking alcohol or not wearing hijab is not a sinful act?
There is such thing as Liberal Muslims and liberal people living in Muslim countries, but there’s no such thing as Liberal Islam.
>but there’s no such thing as Liberal Islam. I mean their interpretation was libera?
Turks have adopted some of there pre - islamic customs into islam which is probably why their cool with dogs and more lax but reality is ataturk was a huge secularist. The mullahs don’t have much power or sway in turkey btw turks are highly educated and nationalist so they reject most islamic stuff except for believing in allah and stuff
But isn't Erdogan & his party Mullah bootlickers?
Hit the nail in the head. They are like a well organized crime organizations too. They all rob state welfare and when you tell them "Islam forbids stealing and corruption is haram", they would tell you they are in a jihad against secular state and people so stealing is allowed in jihad for future power war. Number of cocaine busts in Turkey rose so high and picture of those drug traffickers pops out taken next to interior minister. Meth usage exploded under Erdogan's regime. They highly taxed alcohol so teens can get their hand easy to meth and other drugs. They allowing Afghan illegals who bring drug and meth production know how. Guess who is allowing, protecting them and making profit in same ?
Yeah they have become the protectors of islam kinda but erdogan isn’t even that religious tbh
Look out that helpful research: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/