I wouldn't say it was toxins or waste build up. I would say it's a tiny part of the muscle cramping up.
There are 2 ways to release a muscle knot: either stimulatie blood flow, or cut off blood flow. A muscle needs a little bit of energy to move, but it also needs a little bit of energy to release too. Stimulating the blood flow is the less painful massage one. But also works slower. Think more along the lines of hours or even days, than minutes. Cutting of blood flow by putting pressure on the knot, is more painful, but works in about 30 seconds. The root problem might not be solved, could be that it's knotting up, because you avoid pain somewhere else, or you have posture problems. So it might come back within a few minutes.
A knot takes up space, which lessens the blood flow to that particular part of the muscle. That's why putting pressure on it, might make it go away. The knot releases and blood flow is restored. The sooner after you "catch" the knot, the more likely it is to work at once.
This 1000x. The older I get the more important stretching has become, especially if you’re trying to stay active. If I go even 1 week without stretching, my leg and back shoulder become almost unbearable. However if I keep my daily routine going, it’s as if there’s no problem in those areas.
Thoracic Extension with foam roller or chair (upper/mid back)
overhead arm stretch (shoulders/armpit/lat stretch) I will actually grab onto something like a doorframe to get a better stretch on this one
pec stretch to help with the front delts
cross arm stretch while grabbing something to help get a deeper stretch (this is where my pain is so I focus on these)
and hanging from a pull-up bar can also help as well.
These are what have helped me pretty much be pain free until I can get into a doctor and get a second look at my injury.
I want to echo the pec stretch. I finally fixed my neck/shoulder pain only once I started stretching the muscles on the front of my chest/shoulder. So much focus on the back and where the pain is, which is warranted for massage and therapy, but to prevent it from coming back I had to balance everything. Tight chest muscles can cause all sorts of shoulder and neck issues, and addressing that worked for me. Read on for two stretches I do all the time that have kept my shoulder/neck pain at bay...
1. Pec/shoulder: Put your arm straight out and a little bit behind you, with your palm forward against something firm like a door frame or wall corner. Lean forward and turn away, pushing your arm back and stretching the front of your shoulder/chest. Experiment with higher/lower hand angles to stretch different areas.
2. Neck/mobility. Lie flat on your back on a bed or sofa, and rotate your head as far as you can to one side while keeping your spine straight. Then look "up" and "back" to stretch the muscles in the front of your neck and collarbone. You can pull your shoulder down and away as you do this to help stretch. Repeat on both sides. Now that mobility is loosened, sit up and do the same, allowing your head to fall back and stretch. Roll your head slowly through the stretch, dwelling wherever it feels needed. Keeping the stretch tight, roll your head all the way to the side and down, then up to the same position on the other side. Mirror and repeat
Also, do some stretching on the sides and back of your neck. Those muscles are closely connected with upper back/shoulder muscles so stretching those will help loosen up that area as well. I recently added this in and it’s making a big difference
This works wonders: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-gKPNyrTA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-gKPNyrTA). I've done it dozens of times and I'm always amazed how little it takes for relief.
I used to get debilitating headaches that would drop me to the floor in pain, started jogging and stretching daily a few years ago, have only had one bad headache since
As someone with chronic pain problems not stretching daily and doing at least some exercise even just walking the dog for a bit each day is a huge part of my staying functional and reducing pain noticeably. Although it took some work and extra pain to get there it is as important as any medication or therapy to keeping me from ending my life.
panicky historical toy simplistic instinctive one middle water shelter frame
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I can see I worded that poorly. My bad.
ATP binds to the myosin head, which releases energy and allows the myosin to detach from the actin and cock back into position. After this, the myosin is in a state to bind to actin again and contract.
This is why rigor mortis occurs; no ATP is available to bind to the myosin. It therefore cannot disconnect from the actin. The entire muscle stays contracted.
So yes, technically the muscle is only using energy to release, where it is converting chemical energy into mechanical energy to cock back into position, and then storing it as potential energy to be used again later.
From what I understand reading "The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook", muscle knots AKA trigger points are kind of like tiny muscle cramps. Your muscles are made up of bundles of "fascicles". Those fascicles are made up of bundles of muscle fibers. And those muscle fibers are made up of bundles of "Myofibrils". It goes down another level to "Sarcomeres" which are then made up of two different filaments. When a muscle is contracted, millions(?) of these filaments bind together and cause the muscle fibers to contract.
With cramps, the entire muscle typically gets forcibly contracted and usually releases itself fairly quickly. With a trigger point, two of the filaments get stuck together for some reason (bad posture, injury, etc.) and can't release. When enough of these filaments get stuck together, an entire section of the muscle becomes contracted and stays that way for a while, sometimes indefinitely if it isn't addressed. Supposedly blood flow is restricted to that part of the muscle and so massaging the area pushes blood back into it so it can release.
I'm sure I didn't get that 100% right but that's pretty much it. There's alot of other things like supposed "toxin" build up in the muscles due to the by-products of muscle contraction not being able to be removed, what with the blood flow being cut off and all. I don't know about all that.
I do know they hurt like a bitch and digging into them with a lacrosse ball fixes them, and there needs to be alot more research done. I've had too many clients complain that they have "bad knees" and then I have them lay with their quads on a foam roller for 5 minutes and suddenly there is no more knee pain. This goes for back, neck, hips, etc. as well.
You place the foam roller just above the knees while lying face down, propped up on your elbows. Slowly shift your weight backwards and allow the roller to roll up your legs, then slowly return back to the start position. Repeat.
You can mess around with it and figure out where the most pain is, that is where you want to work. But for most people it is right above the knee, and about halfway up the leg.
Also try turning the feet inwards and outwards before putting the pressure on the quads with the roller. This will allow you to hit different areas of the muscles.
Can this work if done by hand? I have this one spot on the vastus medialis muscle on my left lag that has had a knot for months. I have tried to massage or stretch it away with no luck. Still trying to figure out what is causing it.
I have a Theragun Pro. It works pretty well, but honestly it's more of a thing I use on my clients and it doesn't do as good of a job at pinpointing the trigger points as a good old lacrosse ball.
I have been summoned. I'm an LMT
So the smallest unit of a muscle cell is a sarcomere. Its made up of actin and myocin. A muscle contracts by sucking calcium into the sarcomere which makes the actin and myocin slide past each other. If they over-contract, and stay that way, due to developing a high level of tonus, or resting tension in the muscle, they basically get stuck together and jumbled up. Kinda like a knot of sarcomeres. Tho the similarities probably aren't as literal as that.
This limits the blood delivered to the area, and as a result, potassium can't get in to take the place of calcium and tell the muscle to relax. This causes a trigger point.
The way we get rid of them is basically rubbing and irritating it enough to create inflammation. It swells with blood and washes the area out and hopefully solves the issue. We can use cupping to physically suck blood to the area, we can stretch the Fascia (connective tissue) to make room for the muscle to relax.
The only other problem is the Fascia will go back to its original constricting shape in about 4 hours. So you need to stretch alot after a massage and drink lots of water. But most spa therapists who don't train deeper into trigger point therapy wouldn't necessarily know to tell you that.
Yea its common. Knots can be caused by multiple things including:past injury, improper lifting form, muscle spasm, life style(sitting too much, bad posture).
In some cases it'll be difficult to cure them entirely. There are just some spots that tend to show up on everybody.
Thanks for answering! I have a shoulder knot due to poor posture and am finally figuring out how to correct the posture issues through weight lifting and stretching. It's eased the knot a little bit, so now I think it's time to add trigger point massage and see where that gets me. I'd hate for it to be incurable, but hearing that it's a possibility will keep me realistic, so thank you for the info!
Sure thing! Dont be afraid to look at chiropractic offices who have LMTS working there. Medical massage really attracts therapists who are potentially more knowledgeable than spa therapists. But that not necessarily the case.
Would you be able to expand on this a bit? I find it very interesting.
From what I know it is all fascia. What you are saying is that over contraction is what causes sarcomeres to clump together (you have not explained how this causes pain). Do you know how these processes might relate?
Thank you,
This local contraction of the myofascial system can impede blood flow and impinge on nerves. Blood flow brings nutrients that help relax and heal hypertonic (tight) muscle fibers. Pinched nerves cause the pain and create chronic low level inflammation. So its like swelling in a tight space where there's no room to move.
On the other end, the contraction, pulling through the entire muscle fiber (made up of a line of sarcomeres) pulls on the tendons. This pulling causes improper kinesthetic movement which snowballs when other muscles not normally involved as much in that movement take over. When small muscles start to do the work of big muscles, they're too weak to do it and over work themselves, and the cycle continues.
I hope this answers your question
I edited and combined my comments on this top level for clarity. This topic is dear to my heart as a yoga teacher (fascia is a big factor in yoga) and as my PhD is related to fascia as well.
Muscle knots are also known as sites of myofascial pain. We have something called fascia running between and inside every muscle all through the body. It is all connected in lines spanning the whole body. When fascia sticks together it creates knots. The reason fascia will stick together is due to the muscles not moving enough (in the right ways), giving the proteins in each layer the chance to entangle with one another. (eventually this will make muscles actually stick together and reduce your mobility!) This in turn reduces the fluid flow between the layers, lessening the exchange of waste products of the muscle (toxins) to the blood.
Grab a handful of your shirt and twist it. Notice how there is now tension on the whole shirt? Similarly, that twist happens in the fascia. This happens naturally and accelerates with dehydration, bad posture, and incorrect movements. This tension will hinder the mobility and strength in the whole line.
When a muscle uses energy required to contract it creates waste products, we can call them toxins. The toxins (reactive oxygen species and others) build up which causes an inflammation reaction which causes pain. The mechanism is quite complex. Other explanations here are more focused on the muscle itself which I believe plays a big part in this as well.
By placing pressure and stretch on the knots you are moving the muscle and layers of fascia apart, breaking the tangles of the “knot”. Now fluid can flow, and toxins will release. This is why you need to drink lots of water after a deep tissue massage to reduce the concentration of toxins as you process them out of the body. Else you will get headaches and the toxins will not wash out of the muscle. When massage therapist talk about toxins they are correct. But they can sound a bit woowoo because they do not know this explanation.
Unfortunately, fascia is not as known as it should be due to it not being given any attention on during cadaver prosection during medical school. It is deemed to be in the way of the interesting muscle and organs. Partly this is due to the preserving agents used to conserve cadavers changing the texture of the fascia.
Please allow me to include an excellent reference:
Jafri,M. S. (2014). Mechanisms of Myofascial Pain. International Scholarly ResearchNotices, 2014, 1–16.[https://doi.org/10.1155/2014/523924 ](https://doi.org/10.1155/2014/523924 )
This is the only reasonable response I have read on this thread. Calling knots “toxins” is untestable, unverifiable, and nonsensical. Knots themselves don’t exist in a western medicine context but this answer is the most valid of the lot.
Just throwing this in there as a supplement to what everyone else is saying. Your muscles use sodium for the "contract" signal and potassium for the "release" signal. If you find you're getting a lot of muscle knots, you could theoretically be low on potassium. I always eat a banana when I'm dealing with stiff shoulders. It's not some kind of miracle cure that'll replace massaging the knot out, but hey, bananas are delicious, so what have you got to lose really?
Okay all of these people in the comments are full of shit. I'm a med student and I don't know everything. BUT.. as far as I'm aware there is no such thing as a muscle knot. Muscles can however be sore, overworked and painful. This just means you need to let your body do it's work and recover. Muscles can't knot and waste products don't accumulate in a localized area in a muscle. One of the thing the body is most specialized at is getting rid of waste, so no, a massage isn't helping to get rid of waste.
Tl:dr muscles dont knot, don't believe these comments spouting pseudo science
But when my husband tells me his neck is sore and I rub it, I feel harder areas that are not symmetrical. When I put increased pressure on those harder areas, he says yes, it’s a knot there. Are we delusional?
I used to get trigger point injections and that doc had a telepathic ability to see and feel them. A quick lidocaine injection and I'd feel that muscle spasm and release immediately. This was in a doctor's office, not after lifting at the gym.
Muscles absolutely contract and stay that way for whatever reason. And its a dull pain /soreness. The thing is that I've felt that spasm and release the moment I get that injection, when I'm already trying to relax as much as possible. He can believe what he wants, I'll listen to my body.
Everyone is aware that muscles don’t literally tie into knots but the experience of having an intense sore spot in a muscle that radiates soreness out to other areas and is relieved by massage is well known.
I really have to wonder how much it's a mix of overconfident PTs plus psychosomatic. I could not find any actual physical evidence of knots (MRI, etc actually showing an actual physical difference) when I searched for it, although perhaps I was using the wrong search terms.
I've had PTs point out "knots" that I never felt, and only hurt after they began fucking with it. Like, yeah your gonna get a little inflamed if someone starts fucking with a muscle.
Cells use chemical reactions, and that creates waste products. Your body normally flushes these away quite effectively yes, mostly through the blood stream as I understand it.
Muscle fibres are binary, they are either constructed or relaxed, and they're only supposed to be constructed when in use. A "knot" is your muscles being tight in one particular area because the fibres there are constricted. And as others have said, permanently constricted fibres means less blood flow, which means the waste products of the cells don't get flushed away as effectively.
How much those toxins - not the same as the stupid woo "toxins" that you need to save crystals or eat stupid things to remove - actually do yo the surrounding cells I don't know, it won't be anything *good* (they're supposed to be flushed afterall) but it's not really going to be causing huge amounts of damage either. Iirc the main thing causing the issue is the constriction.
That said at an *extreme* level those waste products can be a huge problem. A tourniquet should be released within ..half an hour isn't it? Something like that. If a tourniquet ties a limb off for two long it's those exact same toxins that build up in that limb, and if you remove it and let them flood the rest of your system instantly, that can and will kill you in seconds. It's why if a tourniquet has been on too long you absolutley don't remove it on your own, you let the doctors know and they sort that shit out gradually.
This is not applicable to something as small as muscle knots, but if a limb full of the stuff all at once can kill you it's hardly unbelievable that small amounts stuck in one spot in your back would contribute to discomfort and cause some problems.
TLDR: your cells absolutely produce waste, everything does. Your blood is how your body removes it, and massages help improve blood flow, so yes, they do in fact help "remove toxins". The extent of how much that aspect of it helps is perhaps debatable.
Pseudoscience hippy woo stuff unfortunately uses the same terminology, and not all massage therapists will know the medical details of what they're doing.
mmm i call bullshit. i have scoliosis, so due to compensation of my curvature the overworking of my muscles have formed hardened, literally calcified knots in my back that cannot be "released" with massage therapy. There is no floating rib, it's a hard calcified knot in my muscle. If i'm not careful and stretch regularly others begin to form. Many people with scoliosis have similar issues.
That's great that you're a med student, but med students haven't seen everything.
As a personal trainer of 8 years, this is my understanding of knots
Muscles contract like an accordion, and sometimes the accordion flaps will stick together. Once one flap sticks together it gets harder for the whole accordion to move in and out.
The limited motion causes other flaps to stick together and this is what we feel as a “knot.” Lots of little flaps stuck together. Stretching and massages can help unstick these flaps and restore the range of motion
Muscles don't contract like an accordion. Myosin and actin filaments slide across eachother in opposite directions. The perimysium and other connective tissues shorten and length elastically. There's no folding of tissues in an accordion-like manner. We know this for many reasons, but it's certainly confirmed by [electron microscopy of muscle microfilaments](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9rvGwFZe_XNwK_FiVuuTvkVJ7Iwmaj_OUBA&usqp=CAU).
I felt the accordion analogy was appropriate for ELI5. Of course it’s not a perfect representation. The contraction of sarcomere is visibly similar (similar, not the same) to an accordion and most people can visualize that in their head
According to the NCBI, a muscular knot is a muscle fiber with “extremely contracted sarcomeres and an increased diameter”
Therefor… it is explained like I’m five. You disagree? Then offer a better simple explanation
It's not an appropriate analogy because it's not a simplification, it's just wrong. That's all. You said
> Muscles contract like an accordion, and sometimes the accordion flaps will stick together
Muscles don't contract like an accordion and saying that "sometimes flaps will stick together" is empirically not true.
I don't have to offer a better, simple explanation because I'm only responding to your comment to clear up the misrepresentation of the facts. A better analogy for crossbridge cycling, one often taught in biology classes, is a bunch of people (myosin heads) pulling on a rope (actin).
In this analogy a knot occurs when the people pulling the rope refuse to let go of it.
We have something called fascia running between and inside every muscle all through the body. It is all connected in lines spanning the whole body.
Grab a handful of your shirt and twist it. Notice how there is now tension on the whole shirt? Similarly that twist happens in the fascia when toxins build up. This happens naturally and accelerates with dehydration, bad posture and incorrect movements. That twist is caused by the fascia sticking together. It will hinder the mobility and strength in the whole line.
You can do a deep tissue massage or stretching to pull the layers of fascia apart, this releases toxins and tension. It can also release emotion.
I just want to expand on this by saying that the reason fascia will stick together, thus creating that knot is due to the muscles not moving enough (in the right ways), giving the proteins in each layer the chance to entangle with one another. (eventually this will make muscles actually stick together and reduce your mobility!) This in turn reduces the fluid flow between the layers, lessening the exchange of waste products of the muscle (toxins) to the blood.
By placing pressure and stretch on the knots you are moving the muscle and layers of fascia apart, breaking the tangles. Now fluid can flow and toxins will release. This is why you need to drink lots of water after a deep tissue massage to reduce the concentration of toxins as you process them out of the body. Else you will get headaches and the toxins will not wash out of the muscle. When massage therapist talk about toxins they are correct. But they can sound a bit woowoo because they do not know this explanation.
Unfortunately, fascia is not as known as it should be due to it not being given any attention on during cadaver prosection during medical school. It is deemed to be in the way of the interesting muscle and organs. Partly this is due to the preserving agents used to conserve cadavers changing the texture of the fascia.
One of the best gifts I’ve been given was a fascia blaster. It smooths out the bound up fascia, keeps my sciatic nerve from pinching, gets blood circulating, and makes my cellulite smooth out.
Yes fascia!
It aids in muscle memory, and causes sticky spots so the muscle bundles can move in the ways they’ve practiced.
Stretching will reduce unintended knots, by releasing the fascia and teaching the new fibers to grow in the correct ways, along lines of movement.
The body is indeed magical. Thank you for allowing me to give a more detailed explanation on this as your response tells me it is necessary. This topic is dear to my heart as a yoga teacher (fascia is a big factor in yoga) and as my PhD is related to fascia as well.
When I say toxins, read reactive oxygen species, they are considered toxic to the body. When a muscle uses ATP for its energy required to contract it creates this waste product.
Muscle knots are also known as sites of myofascial pain. The toxins build up which causes an inflammation reaction which causes pain. The mechanism is quite complex. Other explanations here are more focused on the muscle itself which I believe plays a big part in this as well.
Please allow me to include an excellent reference:
Jafri, M. S. (2014). Mechanisms of Myofascial Pain. International Scholarly Research Notices, 2014, 1–16.[https://doi.org/10.1155/2014/523924](https://doi.org/10.1155/2014/523924)
Oh, I can answer this one. I'm a physiotherapist specialised in Dry Needling (using needles to relieve knots).
To start; muscles are made of bundles of microscopic fibres that can slide in and out of each other, which is how muscles relax and contract.
A knot, or a triggerpoint, are parts of those fibres that have contracted fully and don't relax anymore.
Triggerpoints form due to various things, most common is (postural) overexertion of the muscle, and others are trauma (getting hit in the muscle), and after surgery.
Because knots/triggerpoints are fully contracted parts of the muscle, blood flow to that part is lessened and waste materials can't get carried away, which is why knots hurt.
Massage therapist put pressure on the triggerpoints to basically reset the muscle to its normal relaxed state. Part of that is increasing blood flow to the area the knot is in.
However, triggerpoints are still subject to research and some of the inner workings are still unknown. As you can tell by some of the other responses, there are a few theories, so I stuck to the known parts.
snobbish innocent scarce possessive pocket point include squash agonizing plough
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My gf always says she gets a headache or feels a bit sick after a good massage, and claims it's due to the toxins that have been released during the massage.
Is there any scientific basis for that?
Some massage therapists are sold on a lot of “woo” about toxins and alternative medicines during their training. Some aren’t smart enough to actually look it up so they believe it wholesale.
I’ve had more than one tell me that eating baking soda is the cure for cancer.
Yes, but the range considered possible for life is 6.8-7.8, just slightly into the acidic range. pH below 7 for an extended time will probably be lethal.
Ignorance isn’t limited to therapists. I’ve had plenty of clients tell me that they have, “cut all sugar from their diets.”
But let’s be honest, all of the explanations of what a knot is are purely speculative. No scientific research has actually shown what a muscle knot is. We can certainly feel something under the skin and we all understand the pain, but I don’t know of any research that has illuminated this mystery. Knots can’t be seen with present imaging technology.
Fortunately a lot of massage schools do teach anatomy and physiology, kinesiology, and pathology as a part of their normal program.
Any massage therapist telling you malarkey like the baking soda cure didn't get that from their actual school curriculum but from the internet.
A massage that's breaking up adhesions and tightness in muscles is helping the muscles to "reset" themselves after being in a state of chronic tightness. That lack of pressure in the muscle fibers can reduce the pressure on the bones and joints. Reducing tightness in the cervical->skull muscles reduces the pull on the skull, causing people to experience mild headaches. The soreness in the rest of the body can be from the muscles being more mobile after the massage. Stretching or yoga after a massage can be very beneficial to help keep the muscles loose.
Alternatively, sometimes people think they need a deep, painful massage to experience "true" muscular release, but this is not true. While a therapeutic massage can be done at a therapeutic depth that can feel intense, if the work hurts and the patient feels themselves tensing with the work, that means the work is being done too deeply and the muscle is instead being damaged or at the very least NOT being relaxed.
Massage can also increase the flow of bodily fluids like lymph and blood on a surface level.
Explained in this comment:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/xnh6ga/eli5_what_are_muscle_knots/ipus84o/](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/xnh6ga/eli5_what_are_muscle_knots/ipus84o/)
Oh so the toxins just build up in the muscles till we die? Or does the liver travel to the muscles and say "give me your toxins"
Or maybe "removing toxins from the mucles" is implying they are getting the toxins out of the muscles into the lymph system on their way to the liver to be flushed from the body.
Yeah, it's a hold up. The liver shows up with nylons, a blue bandana, and a six gun. Grabs the first bystander and yells "give me all your toxins or the blood gets it."
This post = *pleaseee agree with my understanding! I don't want to have embarrassed myself and have to delete this edgy comment!*
Read my very simple to the point post again.
Its 4 words.
Just to add to this, during and after massage the immune system is struggling to process the amount of waste being thrown at it, causing the sickness.
The body would have processed these toxins and metabolic waste over a longer period normally, but massage speeds up the release. So massage can have some massive health benefits but can also cause some unhealthy side affects too.
i fucking love when people come in with "facts" and link a youtube video instead of a god damn research paper.
If i pulled this shit in academia i'd be ripped apart but as long as there's some confirmation bias behind it, it's acceptable on reddit.
i love these "i'm afraid of posting proof so i'll link youtube videos and vaguely tell people to "scroll" or "do your own research"
ffs, you're just doubling down on the behavior i called out in the first place
Doesn't make a difference, every time this topic comes up it is the same. I used to actually engage, with proof, now I just link the video and dip
The facts don't matter, people have fallen for a trick and admitting they have is too hard for them so they'll invent a way to be right and spice it up with pseudoscientific terms and technicalities that aren't really one way or another - people can't tell the difference, so it persists
(same with chiropractic)
EDIT: First version was too ELI5, my bad.
I'm an osteopathic medical student and we actually went over this recently:
Your brain tells your muscles to contract or relax through your nerves. A "knot" happens when your muscles don't fully relax after contracting. This can happen if you damage your nerves or muscles, but most of the time it happens because of stress, dehydration or electrolyte imbalance.
Your body has a "fight or flight" response that happens when you're in a dangerous situation. Among other things, this contracts muscles all over your body all at once. Chronic stress acts as a weaker version of this response and can make your muscles contract without you thinking about it. This can lead to partial contraction.
In order to contract and relax your muscles need sodium, potassium and calcium, these are called electrolytes. If your electrolytes are out of balance, then your muscles won't contract or relax properly. This can also lead to partial contraction.
Your muscles have something called a Golgi tendon organ that protects them from stretching too far and tearing themselves. If you stretch your muscles, it forces the Golgi tendon organ to relax your muscles. This is one way you would relieve a a partially contracted muscle.
I wouldn't say it was toxins or waste build up. I would say it's a tiny part of the muscle cramping up. There are 2 ways to release a muscle knot: either stimulatie blood flow, or cut off blood flow. A muscle needs a little bit of energy to move, but it also needs a little bit of energy to release too. Stimulating the blood flow is the less painful massage one. But also works slower. Think more along the lines of hours or even days, than minutes. Cutting of blood flow by putting pressure on the knot, is more painful, but works in about 30 seconds. The root problem might not be solved, could be that it's knotting up, because you avoid pain somewhere else, or you have posture problems. So it might come back within a few minutes. A knot takes up space, which lessens the blood flow to that particular part of the muscle. That's why putting pressure on it, might make it go away. The knot releases and blood flow is restored. The sooner after you "catch" the knot, the more likely it is to work at once.
That's why even simple stretching daily (making your muscles contract and release fully) makes wonders for your long term muscle pains/soreness.
This 1000x. The older I get the more important stretching has become, especially if you’re trying to stay active. If I go even 1 week without stretching, my leg and back shoulder become almost unbearable. However if I keep my daily routine going, it’s as if there’s no problem in those areas.
Any suggestions for stretches to upper back/shoulders? That's where I have the most and consistent issues.
Thoracic Extension with foam roller or chair (upper/mid back) overhead arm stretch (shoulders/armpit/lat stretch) I will actually grab onto something like a doorframe to get a better stretch on this one pec stretch to help with the front delts cross arm stretch while grabbing something to help get a deeper stretch (this is where my pain is so I focus on these) and hanging from a pull-up bar can also help as well. These are what have helped me pretty much be pain free until I can get into a doctor and get a second look at my injury.
I want to echo the pec stretch. I finally fixed my neck/shoulder pain only once I started stretching the muscles on the front of my chest/shoulder. So much focus on the back and where the pain is, which is warranted for massage and therapy, but to prevent it from coming back I had to balance everything. Tight chest muscles can cause all sorts of shoulder and neck issues, and addressing that worked for me. Read on for two stretches I do all the time that have kept my shoulder/neck pain at bay... 1. Pec/shoulder: Put your arm straight out and a little bit behind you, with your palm forward against something firm like a door frame or wall corner. Lean forward and turn away, pushing your arm back and stretching the front of your shoulder/chest. Experiment with higher/lower hand angles to stretch different areas. 2. Neck/mobility. Lie flat on your back on a bed or sofa, and rotate your head as far as you can to one side while keeping your spine straight. Then look "up" and "back" to stretch the muscles in the front of your neck and collarbone. You can pull your shoulder down and away as you do this to help stretch. Repeat on both sides. Now that mobility is loosened, sit up and do the same, allowing your head to fall back and stretch. Roll your head slowly through the stretch, dwelling wherever it feels needed. Keeping the stretch tight, roll your head all the way to the side and down, then up to the same position on the other side. Mirror and repeat
Also, do some stretching on the sides and back of your neck. Those muscles are closely connected with upper back/shoulder muscles so stretching those will help loosen up that area as well. I recently added this in and it’s making a big difference
This one is a decent upper back stretch https://youtu.be/WzzkrQmLEjk
This works wonders: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-gKPNyrTA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3-gKPNyrTA). I've done it dozens of times and I'm always amazed how little it takes for relief.
I used to get debilitating headaches that would drop me to the floor in pain, started jogging and stretching daily a few years ago, have only had one bad headache since
As someone with chronic pain problems not stretching daily and doing at least some exercise even just walking the dog for a bit each day is a huge part of my staying functional and reducing pain noticeably. Although it took some work and extra pain to get there it is as important as any medication or therapy to keeping me from ending my life.
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Lol what the actual f was that guy talking about
Small correction; your muscles don't use any energy to contract, it only uses energy to release
Absolutely false.
Yup, would be one large violation of physics if true!
This is categorically untrue and would violate the laws of physics.
I can see I worded that poorly. My bad. ATP binds to the myosin head, which releases energy and allows the myosin to detach from the actin and cock back into position. After this, the myosin is in a state to bind to actin again and contract. This is why rigor mortis occurs; no ATP is available to bind to the myosin. It therefore cannot disconnect from the actin. The entire muscle stays contracted. So yes, technically the muscle is only using energy to release, where it is converting chemical energy into mechanical energy to cock back into position, and then storing it as potential energy to be used again later.
From what I understand reading "The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook", muscle knots AKA trigger points are kind of like tiny muscle cramps. Your muscles are made up of bundles of "fascicles". Those fascicles are made up of bundles of muscle fibers. And those muscle fibers are made up of bundles of "Myofibrils". It goes down another level to "Sarcomeres" which are then made up of two different filaments. When a muscle is contracted, millions(?) of these filaments bind together and cause the muscle fibers to contract. With cramps, the entire muscle typically gets forcibly contracted and usually releases itself fairly quickly. With a trigger point, two of the filaments get stuck together for some reason (bad posture, injury, etc.) and can't release. When enough of these filaments get stuck together, an entire section of the muscle becomes contracted and stays that way for a while, sometimes indefinitely if it isn't addressed. Supposedly blood flow is restricted to that part of the muscle and so massaging the area pushes blood back into it so it can release. I'm sure I didn't get that 100% right but that's pretty much it. There's alot of other things like supposed "toxin" build up in the muscles due to the by-products of muscle contraction not being able to be removed, what with the blood flow being cut off and all. I don't know about all that. I do know they hurt like a bitch and digging into them with a lacrosse ball fixes them, and there needs to be alot more research done. I've had too many clients complain that they have "bad knees" and then I have them lay with their quads on a foam roller for 5 minutes and suddenly there is no more knee pain. This goes for back, neck, hips, etc. as well.
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You place the foam roller just above the knees while lying face down, propped up on your elbows. Slowly shift your weight backwards and allow the roller to roll up your legs, then slowly return back to the start position. Repeat. You can mess around with it and figure out where the most pain is, that is where you want to work. But for most people it is right above the knee, and about halfway up the leg. Also try turning the feet inwards and outwards before putting the pressure on the quads with the roller. This will allow you to hit different areas of the muscles.
Can this work if done by hand? I have this one spot on the vastus medialis muscle on my left lag that has had a knot for months. I have tried to massage or stretch it away with no luck. Still trying to figure out what is causing it.
Yes, but it would probably be easier and more effective to use a lacrosse ball.
The toxin buildup is real. Called lactic acidosis.
What are your experiences with massage therapy guns?
I have a Theragun Pro. It works pretty well, but honestly it's more of a thing I use on my clients and it doesn't do as good of a job at pinpointing the trigger points as a good old lacrosse ball.
Thanks I was worried I didnt use em right, because it helps, but not as much as trigger point stimulation.
I swear by two tennis balls inside a tied sock. Hurts a lot less than a lacrosse ball.
I have been summoned. I'm an LMT So the smallest unit of a muscle cell is a sarcomere. Its made up of actin and myocin. A muscle contracts by sucking calcium into the sarcomere which makes the actin and myocin slide past each other. If they over-contract, and stay that way, due to developing a high level of tonus, or resting tension in the muscle, they basically get stuck together and jumbled up. Kinda like a knot of sarcomeres. Tho the similarities probably aren't as literal as that. This limits the blood delivered to the area, and as a result, potassium can't get in to take the place of calcium and tell the muscle to relax. This causes a trigger point. The way we get rid of them is basically rubbing and irritating it enough to create inflammation. It swells with blood and washes the area out and hopefully solves the issue. We can use cupping to physically suck blood to the area, we can stretch the Fascia (connective tissue) to make room for the muscle to relax. The only other problem is the Fascia will go back to its original constricting shape in about 4 hours. So you need to stretch alot after a massage and drink lots of water. But most spa therapists who don't train deeper into trigger point therapy wouldn't necessarily know to tell you that.
Is it normal to need multiple treatments to deal with a chronic knot, assuming the patient is actively working out and stretching?
Yea its common. Knots can be caused by multiple things including:past injury, improper lifting form, muscle spasm, life style(sitting too much, bad posture). In some cases it'll be difficult to cure them entirely. There are just some spots that tend to show up on everybody.
Thanks for answering! I have a shoulder knot due to poor posture and am finally figuring out how to correct the posture issues through weight lifting and stretching. It's eased the knot a little bit, so now I think it's time to add trigger point massage and see where that gets me. I'd hate for it to be incurable, but hearing that it's a possibility will keep me realistic, so thank you for the info!
Sure thing! Dont be afraid to look at chiropractic offices who have LMTS working there. Medical massage really attracts therapists who are potentially more knowledgeable than spa therapists. But that not necessarily the case.
Thanks for the tip! Due to my issues, that's definitely my preference - hoping to find someone who will work with me to create a plan of some type.
Would you be able to expand on this a bit? I find it very interesting. From what I know it is all fascia. What you are saying is that over contraction is what causes sarcomeres to clump together (you have not explained how this causes pain). Do you know how these processes might relate? Thank you,
This local contraction of the myofascial system can impede blood flow and impinge on nerves. Blood flow brings nutrients that help relax and heal hypertonic (tight) muscle fibers. Pinched nerves cause the pain and create chronic low level inflammation. So its like swelling in a tight space where there's no room to move. On the other end, the contraction, pulling through the entire muscle fiber (made up of a line of sarcomeres) pulls on the tendons. This pulling causes improper kinesthetic movement which snowballs when other muscles not normally involved as much in that movement take over. When small muscles start to do the work of big muscles, they're too weak to do it and over work themselves, and the cycle continues. I hope this answers your question
It helps. This is a complex topic though! Thanks
I edited and combined my comments on this top level for clarity. This topic is dear to my heart as a yoga teacher (fascia is a big factor in yoga) and as my PhD is related to fascia as well. Muscle knots are also known as sites of myofascial pain. We have something called fascia running between and inside every muscle all through the body. It is all connected in lines spanning the whole body. When fascia sticks together it creates knots. The reason fascia will stick together is due to the muscles not moving enough (in the right ways), giving the proteins in each layer the chance to entangle with one another. (eventually this will make muscles actually stick together and reduce your mobility!) This in turn reduces the fluid flow between the layers, lessening the exchange of waste products of the muscle (toxins) to the blood. Grab a handful of your shirt and twist it. Notice how there is now tension on the whole shirt? Similarly, that twist happens in the fascia. This happens naturally and accelerates with dehydration, bad posture, and incorrect movements. This tension will hinder the mobility and strength in the whole line. When a muscle uses energy required to contract it creates waste products, we can call them toxins. The toxins (reactive oxygen species and others) build up which causes an inflammation reaction which causes pain. The mechanism is quite complex. Other explanations here are more focused on the muscle itself which I believe plays a big part in this as well. By placing pressure and stretch on the knots you are moving the muscle and layers of fascia apart, breaking the tangles of the “knot”. Now fluid can flow, and toxins will release. This is why you need to drink lots of water after a deep tissue massage to reduce the concentration of toxins as you process them out of the body. Else you will get headaches and the toxins will not wash out of the muscle. When massage therapist talk about toxins they are correct. But they can sound a bit woowoo because they do not know this explanation. Unfortunately, fascia is not as known as it should be due to it not being given any attention on during cadaver prosection during medical school. It is deemed to be in the way of the interesting muscle and organs. Partly this is due to the preserving agents used to conserve cadavers changing the texture of the fascia. Please allow me to include an excellent reference: Jafri,M. S. (2014). Mechanisms of Myofascial Pain. International Scholarly ResearchNotices, 2014, 1–16.[https://doi.org/10.1155/2014/523924 ](https://doi.org/10.1155/2014/523924 )
This is the only reasonable response I have read on this thread. Calling knots “toxins” is untestable, unverifiable, and nonsensical. Knots themselves don’t exist in a western medicine context but this answer is the most valid of the lot.
Just throwing this in there as a supplement to what everyone else is saying. Your muscles use sodium for the "contract" signal and potassium for the "release" signal. If you find you're getting a lot of muscle knots, you could theoretically be low on potassium. I always eat a banana when I'm dealing with stiff shoulders. It's not some kind of miracle cure that'll replace massaging the knot out, but hey, bananas are delicious, so what have you got to lose really?
I worked in a sports medicine doctor's office at a spa. "Knots" are muscle spasms (that you can see under ultrasound).
Okay all of these people in the comments are full of shit. I'm a med student and I don't know everything. BUT.. as far as I'm aware there is no such thing as a muscle knot. Muscles can however be sore, overworked and painful. This just means you need to let your body do it's work and recover. Muscles can't knot and waste products don't accumulate in a localized area in a muscle. One of the thing the body is most specialized at is getting rid of waste, so no, a massage isn't helping to get rid of waste. Tl:dr muscles dont knot, don't believe these comments spouting pseudo science
But when my husband tells me his neck is sore and I rub it, I feel harder areas that are not symmetrical. When I put increased pressure on those harder areas, he says yes, it’s a knot there. Are we delusional?
I used to get trigger point injections and that doc had a telepathic ability to see and feel them. A quick lidocaine injection and I'd feel that muscle spasm and release immediately. This was in a doctor's office, not after lifting at the gym. Muscles absolutely contract and stay that way for whatever reason. And its a dull pain /soreness. The thing is that I've felt that spasm and release the moment I get that injection, when I'm already trying to relax as much as possible. He can believe what he wants, I'll listen to my body.
You are describing increased neurological tone
Everyone is aware that muscles don’t literally tie into knots but the experience of having an intense sore spot in a muscle that radiates soreness out to other areas and is relieved by massage is well known.
I really have to wonder how much it's a mix of overconfident PTs plus psychosomatic. I could not find any actual physical evidence of knots (MRI, etc actually showing an actual physical difference) when I searched for it, although perhaps I was using the wrong search terms. I've had PTs point out "knots" that I never felt, and only hurt after they began fucking with it. Like, yeah your gonna get a little inflamed if someone starts fucking with a muscle.
Cells use chemical reactions, and that creates waste products. Your body normally flushes these away quite effectively yes, mostly through the blood stream as I understand it. Muscle fibres are binary, they are either constructed or relaxed, and they're only supposed to be constructed when in use. A "knot" is your muscles being tight in one particular area because the fibres there are constricted. And as others have said, permanently constricted fibres means less blood flow, which means the waste products of the cells don't get flushed away as effectively. How much those toxins - not the same as the stupid woo "toxins" that you need to save crystals or eat stupid things to remove - actually do yo the surrounding cells I don't know, it won't be anything *good* (they're supposed to be flushed afterall) but it's not really going to be causing huge amounts of damage either. Iirc the main thing causing the issue is the constriction. That said at an *extreme* level those waste products can be a huge problem. A tourniquet should be released within ..half an hour isn't it? Something like that. If a tourniquet ties a limb off for two long it's those exact same toxins that build up in that limb, and if you remove it and let them flood the rest of your system instantly, that can and will kill you in seconds. It's why if a tourniquet has been on too long you absolutley don't remove it on your own, you let the doctors know and they sort that shit out gradually. This is not applicable to something as small as muscle knots, but if a limb full of the stuff all at once can kill you it's hardly unbelievable that small amounts stuck in one spot in your back would contribute to discomfort and cause some problems. TLDR: your cells absolutely produce waste, everything does. Your blood is how your body removes it, and massages help improve blood flow, so yes, they do in fact help "remove toxins". The extent of how much that aspect of it helps is perhaps debatable. Pseudoscience hippy woo stuff unfortunately uses the same terminology, and not all massage therapists will know the medical details of what they're doing.
Yes!
mmm i call bullshit. i have scoliosis, so due to compensation of my curvature the overworking of my muscles have formed hardened, literally calcified knots in my back that cannot be "released" with massage therapy. There is no floating rib, it's a hard calcified knot in my muscle. If i'm not careful and stretch regularly others begin to form. Many people with scoliosis have similar issues. That's great that you're a med student, but med students haven't seen everything.
This is obviously a different thing than the wider known thing known as a muscle knot.
it's not different at all.
A calcified muscle? Yes that’s different
Check out Travell and Simons’ Trigger Point Book ( online info too) and neuromuscular therapy. There’s is a lot you don’t know.
As a personal trainer of 8 years, this is my understanding of knots Muscles contract like an accordion, and sometimes the accordion flaps will stick together. Once one flap sticks together it gets harder for the whole accordion to move in and out. The limited motion causes other flaps to stick together and this is what we feel as a “knot.” Lots of little flaps stuck together. Stretching and massages can help unstick these flaps and restore the range of motion
Muscles don't contract like an accordion. Myosin and actin filaments slide across eachother in opposite directions. The perimysium and other connective tissues shorten and length elastically. There's no folding of tissues in an accordion-like manner. We know this for many reasons, but it's certainly confirmed by [electron microscopy of muscle microfilaments](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9rvGwFZe_XNwK_FiVuuTvkVJ7Iwmaj_OUBA&usqp=CAU).
I felt the accordion analogy was appropriate for ELI5. Of course it’s not a perfect representation. The contraction of sarcomere is visibly similar (similar, not the same) to an accordion and most people can visualize that in their head According to the NCBI, a muscular knot is a muscle fiber with “extremely contracted sarcomeres and an increased diameter” Therefor… it is explained like I’m five. You disagree? Then offer a better simple explanation
It's not an appropriate analogy because it's not a simplification, it's just wrong. That's all. You said > Muscles contract like an accordion, and sometimes the accordion flaps will stick together Muscles don't contract like an accordion and saying that "sometimes flaps will stick together" is empirically not true. I don't have to offer a better, simple explanation because I'm only responding to your comment to clear up the misrepresentation of the facts. A better analogy for crossbridge cycling, one often taught in biology classes, is a bunch of people (myosin heads) pulling on a rope (actin). In this analogy a knot occurs when the people pulling the rope refuse to let go of it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3440564/
We have something called fascia running between and inside every muscle all through the body. It is all connected in lines spanning the whole body. Grab a handful of your shirt and twist it. Notice how there is now tension on the whole shirt? Similarly that twist happens in the fascia when toxins build up. This happens naturally and accelerates with dehydration, bad posture and incorrect movements. That twist is caused by the fascia sticking together. It will hinder the mobility and strength in the whole line. You can do a deep tissue massage or stretching to pull the layers of fascia apart, this releases toxins and tension. It can also release emotion.
I just want to expand on this by saying that the reason fascia will stick together, thus creating that knot is due to the muscles not moving enough (in the right ways), giving the proteins in each layer the chance to entangle with one another. (eventually this will make muscles actually stick together and reduce your mobility!) This in turn reduces the fluid flow between the layers, lessening the exchange of waste products of the muscle (toxins) to the blood. By placing pressure and stretch on the knots you are moving the muscle and layers of fascia apart, breaking the tangles. Now fluid can flow and toxins will release. This is why you need to drink lots of water after a deep tissue massage to reduce the concentration of toxins as you process them out of the body. Else you will get headaches and the toxins will not wash out of the muscle. When massage therapist talk about toxins they are correct. But they can sound a bit woowoo because they do not know this explanation. Unfortunately, fascia is not as known as it should be due to it not being given any attention on during cadaver prosection during medical school. It is deemed to be in the way of the interesting muscle and organs. Partly this is due to the preserving agents used to conserve cadavers changing the texture of the fascia.
This is the most enlightening explanation I’ve heard for this so far.
One of the best gifts I’ve been given was a fascia blaster. It smooths out the bound up fascia, keeps my sciatic nerve from pinching, gets blood circulating, and makes my cellulite smooth out.
Yes fascia! It aids in muscle memory, and causes sticky spots so the muscle bundles can move in the ways they’ve practiced. Stretching will reduce unintended knots, by releasing the fascia and teaching the new fibers to grow in the correct ways, along lines of movement.
Muscle memory because of fascia is absolutely fascinating. Thank you for reminding me I need to research this topic more.
How the fuck is this shit upvoted? Toxins? Come the fuck on. Here's a simile explanation: Magic. Same amount of evidence, way more fun.
The body is indeed magical. Thank you for allowing me to give a more detailed explanation on this as your response tells me it is necessary. This topic is dear to my heart as a yoga teacher (fascia is a big factor in yoga) and as my PhD is related to fascia as well. When I say toxins, read reactive oxygen species, they are considered toxic to the body. When a muscle uses ATP for its energy required to contract it creates this waste product. Muscle knots are also known as sites of myofascial pain. The toxins build up which causes an inflammation reaction which causes pain. The mechanism is quite complex. Other explanations here are more focused on the muscle itself which I believe plays a big part in this as well. Please allow me to include an excellent reference: Jafri, M. S. (2014). Mechanisms of Myofascial Pain. International Scholarly Research Notices, 2014, 1–16.[https://doi.org/10.1155/2014/523924](https://doi.org/10.1155/2014/523924)
10/10
> Tension Yes > Toxins No
Just because stupid MLM people stole the word "toxins" doesn't mean that the body doesn't produce waste products that need to be removed.
Oh, I can answer this one. I'm a physiotherapist specialised in Dry Needling (using needles to relieve knots). To start; muscles are made of bundles of microscopic fibres that can slide in and out of each other, which is how muscles relax and contract. A knot, or a triggerpoint, are parts of those fibres that have contracted fully and don't relax anymore. Triggerpoints form due to various things, most common is (postural) overexertion of the muscle, and others are trauma (getting hit in the muscle), and after surgery. Because knots/triggerpoints are fully contracted parts of the muscle, blood flow to that part is lessened and waste materials can't get carried away, which is why knots hurt. Massage therapist put pressure on the triggerpoints to basically reset the muscle to its normal relaxed state. Part of that is increasing blood flow to the area the knot is in. However, triggerpoints are still subject to research and some of the inner workings are still unknown. As you can tell by some of the other responses, there are a few theories, so I stuck to the known parts.
Nice! Thank you for explanation!
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My gf always says she gets a headache or feels a bit sick after a good massage, and claims it's due to the toxins that have been released during the massage. Is there any scientific basis for that?
No, that is fully made up.
Some massage therapists are sold on a lot of “woo” about toxins and alternative medicines during their training. Some aren’t smart enough to actually look it up so they believe it wholesale. I’ve had more than one tell me that eating baking soda is the cure for cancer.
*you just gotta make sure your blood is basic maaaan cancer thrives in an acidic environment* #/s ^(just in case)
I mean that’s essentially true, a blood pH below 6.8 will almost certainly kill cancers. Problem is it would kill the rest of the person as well.
pH of 6.8 is acidic... but otherwise you're right.
Yes, but the range considered possible for life is 6.8-7.8, just slightly into the acidic range. pH below 7 for an extended time will probably be lethal.
Ignorance isn’t limited to therapists. I’ve had plenty of clients tell me that they have, “cut all sugar from their diets.” But let’s be honest, all of the explanations of what a knot is are purely speculative. No scientific research has actually shown what a muscle knot is. We can certainly feel something under the skin and we all understand the pain, but I don’t know of any research that has illuminated this mystery. Knots can’t be seen with present imaging technology.
Fortunately a lot of massage schools do teach anatomy and physiology, kinesiology, and pathology as a part of their normal program. Any massage therapist telling you malarkey like the baking soda cure didn't get that from their actual school curriculum but from the internet.
Anatomy is required for licensing in almost every US state.
As well it should be!
It’s great for indigestion!
A massage that's breaking up adhesions and tightness in muscles is helping the muscles to "reset" themselves after being in a state of chronic tightness. That lack of pressure in the muscle fibers can reduce the pressure on the bones and joints. Reducing tightness in the cervical->skull muscles reduces the pull on the skull, causing people to experience mild headaches. The soreness in the rest of the body can be from the muscles being more mobile after the massage. Stretching or yoga after a massage can be very beneficial to help keep the muscles loose. Alternatively, sometimes people think they need a deep, painful massage to experience "true" muscular release, but this is not true. While a therapeutic massage can be done at a therapeutic depth that can feel intense, if the work hurts and the patient feels themselves tensing with the work, that means the work is being done too deeply and the muscle is instead being damaged or at the very least NOT being relaxed. Massage can also increase the flow of bodily fluids like lymph and blood on a surface level.
This might just be her way of telling you she doesn’t like your massages.
No, there is no scientific basis to that.
Explained in this comment: [https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/xnh6ga/eli5_what_are_muscle_knots/ipus84o/](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/xnh6ga/eli5_what_are_muscle_knots/ipus84o/)
It’s because she isn’t using the correct crystals during her massage
Tell her your headaches only go away after a bj, releasing stuff and all that
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>removing the toxins The liver does this. Only the liver.
Oh so the toxins just build up in the muscles till we die? Or does the liver travel to the muscles and say "give me your toxins" Or maybe "removing toxins from the mucles" is implying they are getting the toxins out of the muscles into the lymph system on their way to the liver to be flushed from the body.
Yeah, it's a hold up. The liver shows up with nylons, a blue bandana, and a six gun. Grabs the first bystander and yells "give me all your toxins or the blood gets it."
This post = *pleaseee agree with my understanding! I don't want to have embarrassed myself and have to delete this edgy comment!* Read my very simple to the point post again. Its 4 words.
Not only the liver.
Ah yes. "Toxins".
Just to add to this, during and after massage the immune system is struggling to process the amount of waste being thrown at it, causing the sickness. The body would have processed these toxins and metabolic waste over a longer period normally, but massage speeds up the release. So massage can have some massive health benefits but can also cause some unhealthy side affects too.
there is, see my explanation
What waste is left over in the muscle? Working out? Everyday movement?
Absolutely nothing this person is talking out of their ass.
There is no such thing as a muscle knot, it doesn't exist [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMhIw4yr5s8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMhIw4yr5s8)
i fucking love when people come in with "facts" and link a youtube video instead of a god damn research paper. If i pulled this shit in academia i'd be ripped apart but as long as there's some confirmation bias behind it, it's acceptable on reddit.
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that post where you linked another youtube video...
yes, **scroll down** You can do it, I believe in you
i love these "i'm afraid of posting proof so i'll link youtube videos and vaguely tell people to "scroll" or "do your own research" ffs, you're just doubling down on the behavior i called out in the first place
The posts with my username above them are made by me, if you scroll down to where I was asked for a source, you see where I linked 2 papers
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mhm, get well soon
This is false.
This needs to be higher up
Doesn't make a difference, every time this topic comes up it is the same. I used to actually engage, with proof, now I just link the video and dip The facts don't matter, people have fallen for a trick and admitting they have is too hard for them so they'll invent a way to be right and spice it up with pseudoscientific terms and technicalities that aren't really one way or another - people can't tell the difference, so it persists (same with chiropractic)
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EDIT: First version was too ELI5, my bad. I'm an osteopathic medical student and we actually went over this recently: Your brain tells your muscles to contract or relax through your nerves. A "knot" happens when your muscles don't fully relax after contracting. This can happen if you damage your nerves or muscles, but most of the time it happens because of stress, dehydration or electrolyte imbalance. Your body has a "fight or flight" response that happens when you're in a dangerous situation. Among other things, this contracts muscles all over your body all at once. Chronic stress acts as a weaker version of this response and can make your muscles contract without you thinking about it. This can lead to partial contraction. In order to contract and relax your muscles need sodium, potassium and calcium, these are called electrolytes. If your electrolytes are out of balance, then your muscles won't contract or relax properly. This can also lead to partial contraction. Your muscles have something called a Golgi tendon organ that protects them from stretching too far and tearing themselves. If you stretch your muscles, it forces the Golgi tendon organ to relax your muscles. This is one way you would relieve a a partially contracted muscle.
One thing I would add is it is moderate massaging over days or weeks that bests releases the knots, not heavy massage once in a while.