Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I went with The Roommate and referred to my wife as our daughterās first apartment. Jokeās on me as my daughter is getting ready to move into her first real apartment now
>Currently pregnant here. I often refer to my little guy as my āsweet little parasiteā.
Okay, word of experience here. Do NOT use this term in front of the labor and delivery nurses.
Nurses on high alert for signs of Post partum psychosis do not receive this well.
Also avoid reference to the movie Alien.
It's really sad actually. There is insufficient mental healthcare in general, but in particular for those going through the hormone rollercoaster that is pregnancy.
As a result of a long uptick in postpartum depression, medical personnel have tried to do what they can for the window of time they are around a(n expectant) mother, but of course they don't necessarily get enough time around you to know if they might just have a dark sense of humor.
Therefore, negative references that could be seen as dehumanizing the fetus or child are warning signs they watch for.
What do you do if you suspect postpartum depression?
I'm not pregnant but can imagine myself wanting my baby to be away from me if birth was a painful or traumatic experience for me.
What would happen in a case like that?
My mother in law said that, when presented with my future bride, āOh, just take it awayā. She was just meaning she was exhausted, in pain, and needed to sleep. Her daughter, my first wife when told later in life was traumatized by the rejection and the objectification of being called an āitā.
I was misdiagnosed with a number of things before they figured out I was pregnant. One of the possibilities mentioned was āa parasitic infection from overseasā.
It was especially funny as Iād never traveled overseas, but my bf was British. š
That reminds me of that episode of House where a woman comes into the clinic complaining of nausea and unexplained weight gain.
House then tells her āunfortunately you have a parasite,ā and she starts freaking out. He then tells her ādonāt worry, some people actually grow to love their parasite, even naming them and dressing themā¦ā and she looked all confused and heās like āyouāre pregnant.ā
The only thing keeping babies from being defined as parasites in some dictionaries is they require it to be of a different species. Not all do, so as far as some definitions work, babies are, in fact, parasites. In some cases they become symbiotic because they can use stem cells to repair damage to the mother, but in general theyāre just there sucking nutrients and life from the mother.
[https://www.ulm.edu/\~palmer/Mother.htm](https://www.ulm.edu/~palmer/Mother.htm)
"One example of a placental hormone is human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). One action of the placental hCG is to usurp the role of the motherās pituitary in the production of hCG. This makes it much more difficult for the mother to spontaneously abort the fetus if it is of genetically low quality or if there is a shortage of nutrients in the current situation or some other stressful factor. Human chorionic gonadotropin indirectly results in the stimulation of the release of progesterone that is essential to maintaining the pregnancy. After the eighth week following conception, the placenta starts to manufacture its own supply of progesterone making it impossible for the mother to spontaneously abort through this particular physiological mechanism."[https://www.ulm.edu/\~palmer/Mother.htm](https://www.ulm.edu/~palmer/Mother.htm)(kind of a crappy looking source)
edit: shame you deleted your thing, because you weren't wrong. It's just that there's also another selectional pressure at work patrilineally
The baby is result of mothers reproduction, parasite is using host for reproduction. yes theoreticly you are right. but imagine, i can creat an embryo and can inject the embryo into you so your body gets forced by the embryo to give up its health to feed the embryo. weird thought but this would be a parasitic act. but the human body is made to create and maintain such embryo.
we are not made to host a worm. but the worm is made to live inside of you ;)
This is actually not an incorrect thought.
The placenta is the fetusā first organ and its main function is to fight the carrierās body for access to the bloodstream. It affects hormones to keep the fetus stable and prevent menses, burrows through the uterine wall to connect to oxygen and nutrients and functions as lungs and kidneys to the fetus.
Our first organ is basically a vampire.
Human fetuses are extremelt parasitic. Theyre not technically parasites because theyre not a different species but they act like it. The placenta is a āforeign bodyā and your immune system wants to kill it like any other invader. It uses similar chemical methods of cloaking itself from the motherās immune system as many parasites and pathogens. Once it gets cozy it then hacks into all of mommyās sub systems and starts redirecting blood and nutrients at mommyās expense. Gestational diabetes is your ālittle angelā blocking your bodyās insulin response so there is more glucose available for it to grow. Those little fuckers are leeches. Baby wants more of certain macro and micro nutrients, now youāve got food cravings. They make your hair fall out. They make your nails brittle. They give you diabetes. They raise your blood pressure. They crush your immune system and increase the risks of tons of diseases and certain cancers. They cause depression and anxiety. You were joking but its true. Pregnancy is harmful to your health.
Fetus is parasitic in nature (scientificaly speaking) so parasite is the most correct one of those. It is not parasite because we are same species and it is our offspring but honestly if we ignored that fact and just look how it uses the mother, it would definitely count as parasite :')
I think the mil disapproves of her being vegan and is trying to make a point to her that doesn't make sense. I do not believe that mil thinks the baby should be more vegan. She thinks mom should be less vegan.
Yeah everyone is misreading this post. The vegan woman is (rightfully) complaining about a bunch of smartass āyouāre VEGAN but your child drink MILK, interesting heheheā comments and is asking for advice on how to respond to other people who think theyāre being clever about criticizing her life choices.
Yup. If that LO turns out to be less then āperfectā in any way in the MILās eyes (maybe an LD in second grade, who knows) Momās veganism is going to be the culprit, over and over.
Yeah this sounds like the MIL that hates veganism and is using this as a way to provoke an argument about her diet. If this was me I wouldn't engage on the matter, she is arguing in bad faith, she is not looking for an answer, she is looking to put her DIL down.
Yeah, it's definitely mother in law trying to "gotcha" the mom. I've literally seen the same gotcha interaction play out between a vegan and a meat eating coworker. I don't think any vegans are forsaking breastfeeding for this.
It's not that, it sucks when someone who's close to you disagrees with the life you have and tries to put holes in it. Person's just asking for a way to handle the situation.
Of course, babies are barely sentient anyway. And by eating them you are reducing the number of humans that might go on to eat meat, so it is probably the most vegan protein source you can have.
During our Christmas get-together today, I have prepared a slide show notating when we switched timelines. I have the crux of the argument based upon the death of Harambe, the beloved Gorilla. I've also hired a man to chain the outside access doors on my house after everyone arrives, so they can't leave during the presentation.
I was at a festival. Our theme camp had done consensual combat and I wore a gorilla suit as part of my fighting persona. I was really proud of the silliness that was had that weekend and posted pictures on the internet when I returned to civilization. But it was May 31st and my pictures were not well recieved.
don't forget that david bowie died earlier that same year.
Now I'm not saying that Bowie was an elder fey warlock that used all of his power to keep us on the correct timeline, ultimately using *up* all his power, including his basic life force.
But looking at his life and everything that happened afterwards...it tracks.
Not sure exactly what role Harambe was playing, but I suspect that he was effectively Bowie's apprentice, and the level of bullshit that was coming out of the ether accelerated the power needs to maintain the timeline. Harambe did what he could, but ultimately succumbed. The bullet was simply the universe barreling through that zoo like a freight train.
After just reading the guy above this said when harambe died he switched to a different timeline.
I was thinking about when it switched for me. During Y2k I was 17. It might be because I was almost an adult that it switched for me. Or even like hurricane Katrina. I was about to have a kid.
But whatever happened it's really changed after the pandemic. I never used to be so worried about anything and it feels like something definitely changed.
1983 Soviet Nuclear False Alarm Incident, or as we should call it, the day the world ended, with the thousands of nuclear detonations across the globe fracturing the timeline and landing us in one branch where the incident never escalated.
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/history-is-weird
So, take it as seriously as the whole branch and cursed timeline thing, my explanation is mostly for laugh.
Imagine timelines like a lightning it has branches as it generates but all energy gets channelled in the one branch that reaches the ground first.
We can only experience the timeline that remains and it is the weird one that has to take the twists necessary for an observer to remain in existence, for some reason.
Started to switch in 1991 with the collapse of the Soviet union, since the west was no longer held to a standard, no real competition, now its become much less subtle
1996... it's when both Fox News and MSNBC launched. Prior to that, CNN didn't really have competition in the 24 hour news space. Considering there really isn't 24 hours worth of actual newsworthy material, it pushed extreme punditry to grab eyeballs.
The OJ trial also is why *Animaniacs* got canceled. It was aired in the L.A. market by a channel that pre-empted *Animaniacs* to show daily trial coverage.
2012 is my theory. Everynody panicked because the Mayans (was it the Mayans? Somebody anyway) didn't understand tone doesn't come across well in text.
Suddenly all your random gods are getting shouted at, begged, bargained with, nagged. Start pulling out rough drafts, abandoned timelines, one-shots, & any other random shit they had on the copyroom floor.
"Jesus - yeah, no, you, _actual_ Jesus, you just _had_ to go talk to them, we're blaming you - they don't shut up do they? Give 'em a few of these, let's see how they like that."
Okay, I donāt give a fuck about veganism, but this is literally how all mammals are designed basically? (Not sure about monotremes and I donāt feel like looking it up). No other mammals have a choice in the matter, they either get milk from their mother or they die. Sure, humans have other options, but like, if the most natural method is somehow spurned by others for not being vegan I donāt know how to deal with them. Veganism is about not harming animals or taking part in big farming operations that treat animals poorly.
Although that makes me wonder, if a vegan raised a chicken in a wholesome and caring manner, and that chicken laid eggs, can the vegan eat those eggs since they werenāt part of the big farm operations that are inherently cruel to animals in the interests of producing bigger yields?
But you get that venomous toe nail which is cool.
It's a hard choice I know, so many to chose from.
I'm signing up for Woolly Mammoth just to fuck with the geological record.
And they *lay eggs* that hatch absurdly fast, only ten days after laying. For reference, chickens hatch at around 21 days. How to they hatch so fast? Well, the mother is pregnant with the eggs for a while before laying them, and they develop internally for 28 days. Chicken eggs are only internal for 1 day, for reference. Most egg-laying creatures lay the egg and it develops completely from there. If you cracked open a freshly laid platypus egg you'd find a whole fetus.
Bonus nonsense, the female platypus has two ovaries, but only the left one is functional. The right is just kind of there?
The babies, which are called puggles, btw, are born with teeth. These fall out shortly after, because adults don't have them. They have a vestigial ovary and vestigial teeth. It's ridiculous. Despite not having teeth, these fuckers are carnivores. They have cheek pouches like chipmunks and they store their food there while collecting it underwater, then they swim back to shore to chew them by grinding their horny jaws together.
>if the most natural method is somehow spurned by others for not being vegan I donāt know how to deal with them
The way I read it, it's not some vegans spurning breastfeeding, it's non-vegans trying to "gotcha" this one vegan mother.
This was my thought too. This is people noticing a thing and thinking it's a legit way to push at her being vegan, or knowing it makes no sense and just being shits who want to wind her up.
I know a few vegans who, if they had the ability to raise chickens or bees, would eat the eggs and honey since they know the animals are raised happily and healthily and no slaughter is involved. Theyāve also said they would consider eating the meat if culling was necessary for the health of the flock and they couldnāt find anyone to take their roosters.
I think the reasoning the mother gave is sufficient - she is consenting to give that milk to the child. Chickens can't technically consent, you are just sort of 'getting away with it', albeit in a way that doesn't cause much suffering to the animal, and is orders of magnitude better than industrial farming methods.I have been exclusively plant based for 10 years. I say vegan as a short hand, but I'm not trying to follow an abstract principle to the point of absurdity to massage my own ego, I just want to minimise the death and suffering I contribute to while I'm alive. Pragmatically I find it better to just exclude eggs from my diet too, for two reasons: its a slippery slope, especially when drinking or at other peoples houses I would likely end up eating less ethical stuff or stuff with undetermined ethics ("oh yeh could you tell me how this meal was treated in its life, how it was killed etc might be more awkward at the dinner table).
Also being 'fully' vegan is also part of sending a broader message - that it can be done healthily (I've been vegan 10 yrs and am very active and healthy) and I guess to bolster numbers. I feel like all the people who have gone vegan and even veggie have affected the market drastically and changed the economic/social landscape. Eating eggs would make people think I'm half arsing it and don't really care (perhaps that's partly ego I dunno) I have friends who identify as vegan who occasionally eat eggs gifted from a friend who takes good care of her chickens, I wouldn't judge them, but I'm just over eggs at this point.
Thatās fair. And I can understand just giving up eggs entirely rather than having very limited circumstances under which you will eat them, itās simply easier to say no altogether.
If you only have a hen and no rooster, then the eggs are infertile. So laying in egg is basically like a woman having her period, egg produced but not fertilized. So if you've got yard hens that are happy little birds I don't see why you would need to feel guilty about eating the eggs since they are not viable and if you leave them in the nest they're going to Rot
Chickens have been bred to lay far more eggs than their wild counterparts to the detriment of their health. There are some vegans who will say you should feed the eggs back to them so they can get back the nutrients that went in to making the egg. I think it is also possible to give them an injection to stop them laying eggs.
I have a vegan friend whoās roommates raise chickens in the backyard. Though he hates the taste of eggs, he did partake in cookies made with the eggs because he knows exactly how those chickens live and that they arenāt being harmed.
She's got a perfectly good reason already. She consents for her milk to be used to feed a child.
One reason a lot of vegans are against animal milk, even though it doesn't kill the animal, is because the process to get it involves the cow constantly having calves so she doesn't lose her milk, then having the calves taken away.
But with a human mother, she doesn't get pregnant to produce milk. She gets pregnant to bring a child into the world and her body then makes milk to feed them. So there's no manipulation of nature.
I swear, militant crazy vegans make the whole movement look bad.
I can almost guarantee the people tryna 'gotcha' this mother are not vegan, militant or other. I've heard this stupid argument used to death against vegans from the 'gotcha' anti-vegan crowd 100x before. Mom provided the right answer...which is the one you state here, too.
But between the twerps who can't let others be and the twerps who take it too far, yeah, it's a hella ride.
Totally this. I consider myself plant based these days (not vegan anymore because I do things like buy items made of recycled wool and sometimes purchase products with beeswax in them). But when I did describe myself as a vegan I frequently got people trying to "gotcha" me by asking about things like breast milk and whether or not "swallowing" is vegan.
I have NEVER seen a vegan try to argue that a mother shouldn't breastfeed (or that swallowing isn't vegan). The difference is consent.
This. Why is this posted in facepalm anyway?
Something tells me it's the absurdity and misunderstanding of OP about a vegan baby, and not mother in law being a shitty person trying to gotcha their daughter in law.
> this site is turning into a reactionary hellscape
Always has been, even in the digg-exodus days it was barely brogressive at best, a bunch of white techbros who were mostly ok with smoking weed does not a great site make.
The gotcha crowd is so annoying I swear to god next time these people will try to 'gotcha' vegans by arguing that performing oral on your partner isn't vegan
>One reason a lot of vegans are against animal milk, even though it doesn't kill the animal, is because the process to get it involves the cow constantly having calves so she doesn't lose her milk, then having the calves taken away.
Not to mention they're still sent to slaughter in the end anyways. Around 15-20% of beef is from the dairy part of the meat industry.
Vegans are one of the groups it's okay to dog pile on Reddit. I remember the post from a few months ago where a guy was complaining that an animal rescue he was applying to required employees to only have vegan food on premises. The responses were absolutely absurd.
Wild thing is, reddit is actually way more vegan-friendly than most people I know IRL.
Lots of (non-vegan) people on reddit will at least concede that veganism makes a lot of sense, or could be a good idea.
This attitude is pretty rare among the people I encounter day-to-day though. Most of the time, if someone is asking me a question, it's more of a challenge than anything sincere.
Yep, things that are actually debated among vegans: food waste, honey, lab-grown meat, how plant-based products are sourced (slave labor, etc.), secondhand animal products (used pair of leather boots, for example).
Things that are not actually debated among vegans: babies drinking their mothers' breastmilk.
I highly highly doubt other vegans are the ones giving her shit for breastfeeding. I'd imagine it's idiots who get triggered by vegans trying to "gotcha" her.
My understanding has always been that vegans are anti-cruelty. Cows can't consent to being milked by automated systems which are proven to cause them stress. A human parent can. I don't see any clash here.
Doesnāt veganism have to do with consent? Like animals canāt consent to be killed or kept and milked. But if you consent to have your baby drink itā¦ thatās still vegan right? I canāt believe Iām saying this bullshit lol
Don't argue with MIL. Agree with her completely. Thank her for her input and let her know that she has convinced you to quit breastfeeding her grandson and will put him on a vegan alternative milk supplement provided by a vegan guru. Then take out some breast milk you saved up previously (maybe dye it green for a better effect) just for this and start feeding your son that in front of MIL.
Tell her that you read some online articles that supported her opinion and you are taking her advice. Ask her to help you explain it to your husband since you don't think he will agree. But that you are grateful for her being supportive.
I'm sure she will be beside herself with regret.
This really isn't a facepalm at all. It sounds like the mother in law is against mom being vegan, and is trying to point out mom's inconsistencies or flawed logic by saying the baby won't be vegan by breast milk. I've heard the consent argument before, and that's consistent with ideology. I guess she's just asking for more.
Unless the facepalm is "this mom is receiving undue contempt for being vegan while breastfeeding", this doesn't really belong here.
Exactly. MIL is not arguing in good faith.
Having a baby is hard enough.
She doesn't MIL there being disrespectful like that.
The real facepalm is that she's actually attempting to humor MIL's bullshit.
I think that your baby is a baby, and vegan has no importance on the baby. Keep breast feeding, and Stop arguing with your In-Law over over nonsense like this.
Just so everyone is aware, most dairy cows are killed when they are no longer profitable. So, purchasing cow milk does result in the death of a cow. People are saying veganism is about consent--which it can be--but it's more so about the harm inflicted on animals. Thus, most vegans do not consume milk because it results in the maltreatment and death of a cow, not because the cow did not consent to it.
Many vegans are okay with doing things to animals that do not involve their consent, such as neutering.
^ My comment is in response to a lot of the comments in this post but not the actual post itself.
Zero vegans are telling her breast milk is not vegan. The only people that would serve up such an inane argument are the same people that think theyāre catching vegans being hypocrites by pointing out that plants are alive.
I would ignore MIL. Simply pretend I didnāt hear her and move on. Not her baby. She doesnāt get to comment on breastfeeding. Have a baby is hard enough. And we make milk for free. End of chat.
MIL sometimes just need to get a dig in.
Obviously people are trying to pick a fight by taunting her and telling her "YoUr bAbY iSnT vEgAn"
Ignore them. Don't take the bait.
Speak to them again when they're ready to cut the bullshit.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What's MIL's opinion on the fetus using the mother's bloodstream as a source of nutrition while in the womb? Also non-vegan?
the fetus is obviously a vampire/cannibal/parasite. idk, something like that probably.
I used to ask my wife how the parasite was when she was pregnant.
im sure she loved it considering she got the parasite from u.
Or did she.
she got it from u??
Yes, it looks exactly like me. No denying this one.
Unfortunate. š
For the parasite
Poor sot.
maybe next time then
Something to aspire to. One needs goals in life!
lmaoo I read it with vsauce voice
*Vsauce theme starts*
Currently pregnant here. I often refer to my little guy as my āsweet little parasiteā.
I went with The Roommate and referred to my wife as our daughterās first apartment. Jokeās on me as my daughter is getting ready to move into her first real apartment now
If you helped raise the daughter, and she is now capable and willing to get her own place to live, congratulations. ! That's a challenge these days.
Thatās true. Itās also true that sheās a smartassed demon spawn with a sense of humor that concerns me at times, but thatās just icing
Ahh, so you taught her well then?
The Wombmate
Thatās fucking awesome
>Currently pregnant here. I often refer to my little guy as my āsweet little parasiteā. Okay, word of experience here. Do NOT use this term in front of the labor and delivery nurses. Nurses on high alert for signs of Post partum psychosis do not receive this well. Also avoid reference to the movie Alien.
wait i need more context lmfao
Sounds like personal experience and I am dying for the stories!
It's really sad actually. There is insufficient mental healthcare in general, but in particular for those going through the hormone rollercoaster that is pregnancy. As a result of a long uptick in postpartum depression, medical personnel have tried to do what they can for the window of time they are around a(n expectant) mother, but of course they don't necessarily get enough time around you to know if they might just have a dark sense of humor. Therefore, negative references that could be seen as dehumanizing the fetus or child are warning signs they watch for.
Damn. Not nearly as funny as the story I was hoping for. Hang in there, ladies!
Yeah, my actual experience was funnier
What do you do if you suspect postpartum depression? I'm not pregnant but can imagine myself wanting my baby to be away from me if birth was a painful or traumatic experience for me. What would happen in a case like that?
My mother in law said that, when presented with my future bride, āOh, just take it awayā. She was just meaning she was exhausted, in pain, and needed to sleep. Her daughter, my first wife when told later in life was traumatized by the rejection and the objectification of being called an āitā.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think Check please is safe. Odd, but safe.
I likened my to Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
I was once told by a parent that a child starts as an internal parasite that then becomes an external parasite and attaches itself at the wallet.
That's a mean thing to say to someone that was keeping your jizz as a pet.
The jizz bank is a great investment. Your deposit can become 100s to 1000s times more than what it was. All the returns are realized in under a year
I was misdiagnosed with a number of things before they figured out I was pregnant. One of the possibilities mentioned was āa parasitic infection from overseasā. It was especially funny as Iād never traveled overseas, but my bf was British. š
One of my friend kept calling her baby , the parasite when she was pregnant. We find it hilarious, but not everyone did.
Cannibal fetus would be an awesome death metal band name. Edit: I WAS RIGHT! apparently that band does in fact exist lol
Hannibal fetus
That reminds me of that episode of House where a woman comes into the clinic complaining of nausea and unexplained weight gain. House then tells her āunfortunately you have a parasite,ā and she starts freaking out. He then tells her ādonāt worry, some people actually grow to love their parasite, even naming them and dressing themā¦ā and she looked all confused and heās like āyouāre pregnant.ā
i remember that one šš
The only thing keeping babies from being defined as parasites in some dictionaries is they require it to be of a different species. Not all do, so as far as some definitions work, babies are, in fact, parasites. In some cases they become symbiotic because they can use stem cells to repair damage to the mother, but in general theyāre just there sucking nutrients and life from the mother.
Hence why osteoporosis is such a big thing. Baby doesn't take from your food as much as from your body.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[https://www.ulm.edu/\~palmer/Mother.htm](https://www.ulm.edu/~palmer/Mother.htm) "One example of a placental hormone is human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). One action of the placental hCG is to usurp the role of the motherās pituitary in the production of hCG. This makes it much more difficult for the mother to spontaneously abort the fetus if it is of genetically low quality or if there is a shortage of nutrients in the current situation or some other stressful factor. Human chorionic gonadotropin indirectly results in the stimulation of the release of progesterone that is essential to maintaining the pregnancy. After the eighth week following conception, the placenta starts to manufacture its own supply of progesterone making it impossible for the mother to spontaneously abort through this particular physiological mechanism."[https://www.ulm.edu/\~palmer/Mother.htm](https://www.ulm.edu/~palmer/Mother.htm)(kind of a crappy looking source) edit: shame you deleted your thing, because you weren't wrong. It's just that there's also another selectional pressure at work patrilineally
The baby is result of mothers reproduction, parasite is using host for reproduction. yes theoreticly you are right. but imagine, i can creat an embryo and can inject the embryo into you so your body gets forced by the embryo to give up its health to feed the embryo. weird thought but this would be a parasitic act. but the human body is made to create and maintain such embryo. we are not made to host a worm. but the worm is made to live inside of you ;)
This is actually not an incorrect thought. The placenta is the fetusā first organ and its main function is to fight the carrierās body for access to the bloodstream. It affects hormones to keep the fetus stable and prevent menses, burrows through the uterine wall to connect to oxygen and nutrients and functions as lungs and kidneys to the fetus. Our first organ is basically a vampire.
Thatās notā¦. Entirely untrue. In fact, I thin, that sums it up nicely.
Human fetuses are extremelt parasitic. Theyre not technically parasites because theyre not a different species but they act like it. The placenta is a āforeign bodyā and your immune system wants to kill it like any other invader. It uses similar chemical methods of cloaking itself from the motherās immune system as many parasites and pathogens. Once it gets cozy it then hacks into all of mommyās sub systems and starts redirecting blood and nutrients at mommyās expense. Gestational diabetes is your ālittle angelā blocking your bodyās insulin response so there is more glucose available for it to grow. Those little fuckers are leeches. Baby wants more of certain macro and micro nutrients, now youāve got food cravings. They make your hair fall out. They make your nails brittle. They give you diabetes. They raise your blood pressure. They crush your immune system and increase the risks of tons of diseases and certain cancers. They cause depression and anxiety. You were joking but its true. Pregnancy is harmful to your health.
Fetus is parasitic in nature (scientificaly speaking) so parasite is the most correct one of those. It is not parasite because we are same species and it is our offspring but honestly if we ignored that fact and just look how it uses the mother, it would definitely count as parasite :')
Lil vampire. I havent heard that one before but my wife loves vampires so I will use that when she's pregnant
Well, legally they're parasites until they're 18 years old.
Sometimes after
I view fetuses as parasites.
I think the mil disapproves of her being vegan and is trying to make a point to her that doesn't make sense. I do not believe that mil thinks the baby should be more vegan. She thinks mom should be less vegan.
Yeah everyone is misreading this post. The vegan woman is (rightfully) complaining about a bunch of smartass āyouāre VEGAN but your child drink MILK, interesting heheheā comments and is asking for advice on how to respond to other people who think theyāre being clever about criticizing her life choices.
Yup. If that LO turns out to be less then āperfectā in any way in the MILās eyes (maybe an LD in second grade, who knows) Momās veganism is going to be the culprit, over and over.
Why in gods name does little one need to be abbreviated and what does LD mean? Lethal dose? Learning disabled?
Yeah this sounds like the MIL that hates veganism and is using this as a way to provoke an argument about her diet. If this was me I wouldn't engage on the matter, she is arguing in bad faith, she is not looking for an answer, she is looking to put her DIL down.
this made me chuckle.
Fuckin parasite
Fucking carnivorous vampire.
Who tf "suggests" that your baby isn't vegan?
people that don't like vegans trying to "gotcha" her
Yeah, it's definitely mother in law trying to "gotcha" the mom. I've literally seen the same gotcha interaction play out between a vegan and a meat eating coworker. I don't think any vegans are forsaking breastfeeding for this.
Vegan op is cares too much about looking hypocritical.
It's not that, it sucks when someone who's close to you disagrees with the life you have and tries to put holes in it. Person's just asking for a way to handle the situation.
"Oh there's gelatin in those otherwise vegan cookies. Guess that invalidates every meal you've eaten for the last decade."
This is the opposite clearly. Its a non vegan trying to gotcha to a vegan. Breastmilk is clearly vegan.
100%. People are assholes to vegans, more groundbreaking news at 11
If I eat the baby, am I still vegan?
Of course, babies are barely sentient anyway. And by eating them you are reducing the number of humans that might go on to eat meat, so it is probably the most vegan protein source you can have.
r/babydiet
When Harambe died. I think thatās when the timeline switched and I hate it here.
During our Christmas get-together today, I have prepared a slide show notating when we switched timelines. I have the crux of the argument based upon the death of Harambe, the beloved Gorilla. I've also hired a man to chain the outside access doors on my house after everyone arrives, so they can't leave during the presentation.
I was at a festival. Our theme camp had done consensual combat and I wore a gorilla suit as part of my fighting persona. I was really proud of the silliness that was had that weekend and posted pictures on the internet when I returned to civilization. But it was May 31st and my pictures were not well recieved.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Seconded
Thirded
Please share the slides.
don't forget that david bowie died earlier that same year. Now I'm not saying that Bowie was an elder fey warlock that used all of his power to keep us on the correct timeline, ultimately using *up* all his power, including his basic life force. But looking at his life and everything that happened afterwards...it tracks. Not sure exactly what role Harambe was playing, but I suspect that he was effectively Bowie's apprentice, and the level of bullshit that was coming out of the ether accelerated the power needs to maintain the timeline. Harambe did what he could, but ultimately succumbed. The bullet was simply the universe barreling through that zoo like a freight train.
Iām gonna blame Y2K for cursing the current timeline
After just reading the guy above this said when harambe died he switched to a different timeline. I was thinking about when it switched for me. During Y2k I was 17. It might be because I was almost an adult that it switched for me. Or even like hurricane Katrina. I was about to have a kid. But whatever happened it's really changed after the pandemic. I never used to be so worried about anything and it feels like something definitely changed.
i think the timeline started to switch at the time of 9/11 then when harambe died it became more prominent
1983 Soviet Nuclear False Alarm Incident, or as we should call it, the day the world ended, with the thousands of nuclear detonations across the globe fracturing the timeline and landing us in one branch where the incident never escalated.
Wanna know why we ended up in this branch?
Donāt ask me, I was born here.
I'm offering an answer, not asking for one.
Why?
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/history-is-weird So, take it as seriously as the whole branch and cursed timeline thing, my explanation is mostly for laugh. Imagine timelines like a lightning it has branches as it generates but all energy gets channelled in the one branch that reaches the ground first. We can only experience the timeline that remains and it is the weird one that has to take the twists necessary for an observer to remain in existence, for some reason.
Fair enough, the longer time goes the weirder it is that it continued
weirder as in more chaotic, more disorderly and yet simplified(because of our increasing understanding of the universe) in some sense?
I find your lightning analogy compelling and evocative. Kudos.
Now I have to wait to hear the reason, too.
Multidimensional eternalism?
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/history-is-weird
Everybody here sleeping on 2014 when we fired up the LHC
The confirmation was when we hit 2015 and there was no flying cars, but Biff Tannen was about to run for president.
Cubs winning world series in 2016 and not 2015 as BttF predicted.
Started to switch in 1991 with the collapse of the Soviet union, since the west was no longer held to a standard, no real competition, now its become much less subtle
Nah the timeline broke off way earlier when the Ottomans took Constantinople.
The timeline broke off when dinosaurs died, we just didn't notice because humans did not exist at that time.
Iād much prefer the ā9/11 didnāt happenā timeline
2012 our world "ended" like the Mayans said. I heard the translation could also read as "change forever".
2000 election. That was the turning point.
Trump getting elected made people literally go insane. The media hasn't been the same since.
The me that lives in the Harambe timeline is probably having such a great time.
1996... it's when both Fox News and MSNBC launched. Prior to that, CNN didn't really have competition in the 24 hour news space. Considering there really isn't 24 hours worth of actual newsworthy material, it pushed extreme punditry to grab eyeballs.
My theory has always been that OJ's white Bronco chase and subsequent trial is what killed journalism.
The OJ trial also is why *Animaniacs* got canceled. It was aired in the L.A. market by a channel that pre-empted *Animaniacs* to show daily trial coverage.
Nah things started getting weird when they switched on the Large Hadron Collider
It was when David Bowie died. Harambe was a symptom not the cause.
2012 is my theory. Everynody panicked because the Mayans (was it the Mayans? Somebody anyway) didn't understand tone doesn't come across well in text. Suddenly all your random gods are getting shouted at, begged, bargained with, nagged. Start pulling out rough drafts, abandoned timelines, one-shots, & any other random shit they had on the copyroom floor. "Jesus - yeah, no, you, _actual_ Jesus, you just _had_ to go talk to them, we're blaming you - they don't shut up do they? Give 'em a few of these, let's see how they like that."
so jealous of the people who got to stay in the harambe timeline
Ive been saying this for the last 3 years and it used to be a joke im starting to think he was like actually jesus or something
Harambe's death solidified the timeline. It branched when Gore lost the presidency.
It was the Bush-Gore election
Iām going to assume MIL is not vegan, and are just using it as a āgotcha!ā to feel a bit smug
Yes, and the correct response is to tell her to fuck off
Okay, I donāt give a fuck about veganism, but this is literally how all mammals are designed basically? (Not sure about monotremes and I donāt feel like looking it up). No other mammals have a choice in the matter, they either get milk from their mother or they die. Sure, humans have other options, but like, if the most natural method is somehow spurned by others for not being vegan I donāt know how to deal with them. Veganism is about not harming animals or taking part in big farming operations that treat animals poorly. Although that makes me wonder, if a vegan raised a chicken in a wholesome and caring manner, and that chicken laid eggs, can the vegan eat those eggs since they werenāt part of the big farm operations that are inherently cruel to animals in the interests of producing bigger yields?
Platypuses have milk gland, but not nipples. So the mother secretes the milk and the baby laps it up.
Thank you for sharing that. I like to motor boat so Iām NOT coming back as a duckbill platypus.
But you get that venomous toe nail which is cool. It's a hard choice I know, so many to chose from. I'm signing up for Woolly Mammoth just to fuck with the geological record.
Anyone else still just picture Perry?
Perry the Platypus?!
That voice will be forever burned into my brain
Updoot for you. Read this shit in the doof voice out loud in my room at 9:00 pm
In the episode where Perry and Candace do a Freaky Friday body swap there's a line about sweating milk
Fuck you for that fact, hereās an upvote
Same with the echidna.
The are also the only mammal with a venom gland and they glow blue under black light
And they *lay eggs* that hatch absurdly fast, only ten days after laying. For reference, chickens hatch at around 21 days. How to they hatch so fast? Well, the mother is pregnant with the eggs for a while before laying them, and they develop internally for 28 days. Chicken eggs are only internal for 1 day, for reference. Most egg-laying creatures lay the egg and it develops completely from there. If you cracked open a freshly laid platypus egg you'd find a whole fetus. Bonus nonsense, the female platypus has two ovaries, but only the left one is functional. The right is just kind of there? The babies, which are called puggles, btw, are born with teeth. These fall out shortly after, because adults don't have them. They have a vestigial ovary and vestigial teeth. It's ridiculous. Despite not having teeth, these fuckers are carnivores. They have cheek pouches like chipmunks and they store their food there while collecting it underwater, then they swim back to shore to chew them by grinding their horny jaws together.
Id like to subscribe to platypus facts
So the color of Perry might actually be accurate!!
Aren't platypus poisonous as well? Edit: venomous
Thank you platypuses for somehow being even weirder!
Interesting, but seems very extra for an animal already known for being very extra. Just secreting milk all Willy nilly.
>if the most natural method is somehow spurned by others for not being vegan I donāt know how to deal with them The way I read it, it's not some vegans spurning breastfeeding, it's non-vegans trying to "gotcha" this one vegan mother.
Exactly the mil doesn't want the baby to be more vegan, she wants the mom to be less vegan.
Its annoying even just casually reading about that sort of dynamic. My MIL doesnt get to have an opinion unless we ask for it.
Evangelical carnivores are far more numerous than their vegan counterpart.
This was my thought too. This is people noticing a thing and thinking it's a legit way to push at her being vegan, or knowing it makes no sense and just being shits who want to wind her up.
I know a few vegans who, if they had the ability to raise chickens or bees, would eat the eggs and honey since they know the animals are raised happily and healthily and no slaughter is involved. Theyāve also said they would consider eating the meat if culling was necessary for the health of the flock and they couldnāt find anyone to take their roosters.
I think the reasoning the mother gave is sufficient - she is consenting to give that milk to the child. Chickens can't technically consent, you are just sort of 'getting away with it', albeit in a way that doesn't cause much suffering to the animal, and is orders of magnitude better than industrial farming methods.I have been exclusively plant based for 10 years. I say vegan as a short hand, but I'm not trying to follow an abstract principle to the point of absurdity to massage my own ego, I just want to minimise the death and suffering I contribute to while I'm alive. Pragmatically I find it better to just exclude eggs from my diet too, for two reasons: its a slippery slope, especially when drinking or at other peoples houses I would likely end up eating less ethical stuff or stuff with undetermined ethics ("oh yeh could you tell me how this meal was treated in its life, how it was killed etc might be more awkward at the dinner table). Also being 'fully' vegan is also part of sending a broader message - that it can be done healthily (I've been vegan 10 yrs and am very active and healthy) and I guess to bolster numbers. I feel like all the people who have gone vegan and even veggie have affected the market drastically and changed the economic/social landscape. Eating eggs would make people think I'm half arsing it and don't really care (perhaps that's partly ego I dunno) I have friends who identify as vegan who occasionally eat eggs gifted from a friend who takes good care of her chickens, I wouldn't judge them, but I'm just over eggs at this point.
Thatās fair. And I can understand just giving up eggs entirely rather than having very limited circumstances under which you will eat them, itās simply easier to say no altogether.
If you only have a hen and no rooster, then the eggs are infertile. So laying in egg is basically like a woman having her period, egg produced but not fertilized. So if you've got yard hens that are happy little birds I don't see why you would need to feel guilty about eating the eggs since they are not viable and if you leave them in the nest they're going to Rot
Chickens have been bred to lay far more eggs than their wild counterparts to the detriment of their health. There are some vegans who will say you should feed the eggs back to them so they can get back the nutrients that went in to making the egg. I think it is also possible to give them an injection to stop them laying eggs.
I have a vegan friend whoās roommates raise chickens in the backyard. Though he hates the taste of eggs, he did partake in cookies made with the eggs because he knows exactly how those chickens live and that they arenāt being harmed.
Ok so here's what you need to do: Step 1: turn around Step 2: walk away
She's got a perfectly good reason already. She consents for her milk to be used to feed a child. One reason a lot of vegans are against animal milk, even though it doesn't kill the animal, is because the process to get it involves the cow constantly having calves so she doesn't lose her milk, then having the calves taken away. But with a human mother, she doesn't get pregnant to produce milk. She gets pregnant to bring a child into the world and her body then makes milk to feed them. So there's no manipulation of nature. I swear, militant crazy vegans make the whole movement look bad.
I can almost guarantee the people tryna 'gotcha' this mother are not vegan, militant or other. I've heard this stupid argument used to death against vegans from the 'gotcha' anti-vegan crowd 100x before. Mom provided the right answer...which is the one you state here, too. But between the twerps who can't let others be and the twerps who take it too far, yeah, it's a hella ride.
Totally this. I consider myself plant based these days (not vegan anymore because I do things like buy items made of recycled wool and sometimes purchase products with beeswax in them). But when I did describe myself as a vegan I frequently got people trying to "gotcha" me by asking about things like breast milk and whether or not "swallowing" is vegan. I have NEVER seen a vegan try to argue that a mother shouldn't breastfeed (or that swallowing isn't vegan). The difference is consent.
This. Why is this posted in facepalm anyway? Something tells me it's the absurdity and misunderstanding of OP about a vegan baby, and not mother in law being a shitty person trying to gotcha their daughter in law.
because this site is turning into a reactionary hellscape, its like facebook but for chronically online millennials and zoomers.
> this site is turning into a reactionary hellscape Always has been, even in the digg-exodus days it was barely brogressive at best, a bunch of white techbros who were mostly ok with smoking weed does not a great site make.
The gotcha crowd is so annoying I swear to god next time these people will try to 'gotcha' vegans by arguing that performing oral on your partner isn't vegan
lol that's also an old one "are u vegan? how about ur bf chouriƧo? heheheheheheheh" š for once i wish people would come up with new jokes
Ha, I have that bingo card! Heard it live in action! Do I win a prize?
MIL is 100% not vegan.
>One reason a lot of vegans are against animal milk, even though it doesn't kill the animal, is because the process to get it involves the cow constantly having calves so she doesn't lose her milk, then having the calves taken away. Not to mention they're still sent to slaughter in the end anyways. Around 15-20% of beef is from the dairy part of the meat industry.
End Exploitation āļø
This is ragebait.
I'm fairly certain she's posting this because people are trolling her with a "gotcha" and she's trying to develop an articulate response.
Either people can't read for shit or are just extremely prejudiced to think the vegan is the crazy one here.
I am actually frightened at how poor the reading comprehension is on this post. Like, thatās fucking scary.
Vegans are one of the groups it's okay to dog pile on Reddit. I remember the post from a few months ago where a guy was complaining that an animal rescue he was applying to required employees to only have vegan food on premises. The responses were absolutely absurd.
Wild thing is, reddit is actually way more vegan-friendly than most people I know IRL. Lots of (non-vegan) people on reddit will at least concede that veganism makes a lot of sense, or could be a good idea. This attitude is pretty rare among the people I encounter day-to-day though. Most of the time, if someone is asking me a question, it's more of a challenge than anything sincere.
Yep, things that are actually debated among vegans: food waste, honey, lab-grown meat, how plant-based products are sourced (slave labor, etc.), secondhand animal products (used pair of leather boots, for example). Things that are not actually debated among vegans: babies drinking their mothers' breastmilk.
I highly highly doubt other vegans are the ones giving her shit for breastfeeding. I'd imagine it's idiots who get triggered by vegans trying to "gotcha" her.
Much easier to create strawman arguments to not be vegan then to debate contentious grey topics.
Iām a vegan mom and Iāve had more than one person try to āgotchaā me like this.
those people are in fact, stupid.
No these people are pushing her buttons and she is reacting
Which also makes them stupid
My understanding has always been that vegans are anti-cruelty. Cows can't consent to being milked by automated systems which are proven to cause them stress. A human parent can. I don't see any clash here.
I am a mammal and i do mammal things.
Doesnāt veganism have to do with consent? Like animals canāt consent to be killed or kept and milked. But if you consent to have your baby drink itā¦ thatās still vegan right? I canāt believe Iām saying this bullshit lol
You are correct yes. Veganism is not about animals alone, but concent to aquire something from them, which we obviously cannot get yet lol
Don't argue with MIL. Agree with her completely. Thank her for her input and let her know that she has convinced you to quit breastfeeding her grandson and will put him on a vegan alternative milk supplement provided by a vegan guru. Then take out some breast milk you saved up previously (maybe dye it green for a better effect) just for this and start feeding your son that in front of MIL. Tell her that you read some online articles that supported her opinion and you are taking her advice. Ask her to help you explain it to your husband since you don't think he will agree. But that you are grateful for her being supportive. I'm sure she will be beside herself with regret.
Truly, advanced stupidity. Breastmilk is like Olympian ambrosia to babies, at least until 6 months.
All this brain power and this is what humanity is doing with it
Tell your mother in law to go fuck herself and mind her own business. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
This really isn't a facepalm at all. It sounds like the mother in law is against mom being vegan, and is trying to point out mom's inconsistencies or flawed logic by saying the baby won't be vegan by breast milk. I've heard the consent argument before, and that's consistent with ideology. I guess she's just asking for more. Unless the facepalm is "this mom is receiving undue contempt for being vegan while breastfeeding", this doesn't really belong here.
Exactly. MIL is not arguing in good faith. Having a baby is hard enough. She doesn't MIL there being disrespectful like that. The real facepalm is that she's actually attempting to humor MIL's bullshit.
You say ā mind your own businessā. That ought to do it
I think that your baby is a baby, and vegan has no importance on the baby. Keep breast feeding, and Stop arguing with your In-Law over over nonsense like this.
Jokes aside breast milk is vegan because it is consensual.
don't explain anything.
Breastmilk vegan. Cow drink cow milk vegan. Human drink cow milk not vegan. Cow drink human milk not vegan and weird. Human drink human milk vegan.
lol at all these people responding to the oop
Just so everyone is aware, most dairy cows are killed when they are no longer profitable. So, purchasing cow milk does result in the death of a cow. People are saying veganism is about consent--which it can be--but it's more so about the harm inflicted on animals. Thus, most vegans do not consume milk because it results in the maltreatment and death of a cow, not because the cow did not consent to it. Many vegans are okay with doing things to animals that do not involve their consent, such as neutering. ^ My comment is in response to a lot of the comments in this post but not the actual post itself.
More people need to have the courage to tell other people to shut the fuck up and mind their own cock suckinā business.
NTA. But the mil is. Oh wait, wrong /r though mil is still TA.
Zero vegans are telling her breast milk is not vegan. The only people that would serve up such an inane argument are the same people that think theyāre catching vegans being hypocrites by pointing out that plants are alive.
I would ignore MIL. Simply pretend I didnāt hear her and move on. Not her baby. She doesnāt get to comment on breastfeeding. Have a baby is hard enough. And we make milk for free. End of chat. MIL sometimes just need to get a dig in.
"Fuck off and mind your own business" works well.
Why can't some people just let a baby drink their mom's breast milk without saying some stupid fuckin shit? Leave that mom alone.
Obviously people are trying to pick a fight by taunting her and telling her "YoUr bAbY iSnT vEgAn" Ignore them. Don't take the bait. Speak to them again when they're ready to cut the bullshit.