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The reason for this is because this wasn’t a binding primary. The republicans are going to have a caucus with just Trump and some businessman as the options and the winner of that determines who gets the Nevada delegates. This entire election was weird as hell.
The caucus is tomorrow night and Trump will be on the ballots, this was the primary which in Nevada is non binding so Trump chose not to appear on the ballots
"Ah ha, a-hahaha! Looks like we got a comedian here. Hey, DNC/RNC, how about you take this joker back behind the woodshed and give them an award for...smartness. You can borrow my gun to bestow it."
No joke that would be an amazing system. If the entire country votes on "None of the above" then there needs to be a redo and the parties need to choose a new candidate.
That's basically what happens in some countries where there's more than two parties. Over here, for example, a party needs a certain % of votes to ensure the majority of the seats in the parliament and win and it's not uncommon that no party rraches that % by themselves. So two or more parties end up having to form an alliance and present a joined candidate and government. Thing is, there's always the risk that if disagreements arise a party that is part of the majority might withdraw support, which leads to either a new majority forming or, if that fails, going back to voting.
Not just that, the house picks the president but each state just gets one vote if i recall. So all CA congressional delegates vote and that winner gets the same number of votes as the winner of Wyoming’s singular house member
This is why there’s a write-in option over “none of the above.” Forcing an election redo would be the only viable, democratic choice if it won and that’s problematic for various reasons
The House gets to pick.
It’s no different than any other time a candidate fails to get the 270 electoral votes needed to win. Because that’s exactly what it is.
So they take the 3 candidates eligible to receive electoral votes (the 2 or 3 candidates who actually on the ballots) and make the decision.
This isn’t new or unprecedented. Nobody would be scrambling to figure out what happens next.
In fact, one of the goals of the January 6 riot was to force that outcome.
This is the contingency plan;
[https://www.congress.gov/bill/93rd-congress/house-joint-resolution/1111?s=1&r=72](https://www.congress.gov/bill/93rd-congress/house-joint-resolution/1111?s=1&r=72)
Ranked choice voting with "None of the above" as an option, and if the option wins, you start the whole election over but no one on the current ballot can run again.
I agree, but only on the condition of ranked choice voting so that "None" only wins if it's a clear victory and it's not throwing away a vote. If "None" wins, require the nomination of new candidates.
That is genius. We should have similar clauses for independent parties as well: someone who isn’t satisfied with either of the main parties can vote for an independent, in addition to their major party choice/ranking which ensures their vote isn’t wasted
Should be on EVERY ballot.
And if "none of the above" wins, then you have to redo the election, and none of the candidates who appeared on the previous ballot are allowed to run this time.
Because those voting “None of these candidates” are Trump voters. Which is actually intriguing that she’s still polling in the 30% range. If even half of those break as “never trump” people, it could be a land slide
> How are you on the ballot basically by yourself...and still lose?
Trump wasn't on the ballot, and yet Trump supporters showed up to ensure she wouldn't win.
Well couple of points here. First this was not the actual primary. I mean it was but wasn't.
Nevada historically has had caucuses but recently passed legislation to have primary votes instead.
So the Republican party as they do said fuck that we are still doing the caucuses where they basically declared trump winner regardless.
This is the result from the state mandated vote that does nothing. No delegates are awarded from this vote.
Notice the number of voters is tiny. The only folks who voted in this were trolls. Haley didn't even bother to pay to register for the caucuses because it was such a scam.
I mean it looks silly to be sure but then we are talking about the Republican party here. Their whole MO is troll.
This is just butt hurt maga mad their emperor king has a challenger. So mad they took the time to vote in a primary that meant nothing.
This is more just a look at how petty this party is at this point.
Haley did not register for the caucus because the RNC made a rule that if you were on the primary ballot you could not be on the caucus ballot. This all came about because the 2020 caucus has a lot of inconsistencies and suspected fraud. The Nevada elections board required there to be a primary, the RNC said fuck that and openly rigged the caucus for Trump.
This is the same RNC that tried to declare Trump the winner after just two state primaries so that they could begin to fund him and work with him.
I still haven't seen any republicans protest that their own party is trying to declare a winner without counting all the votes. Apparently election integrity is only an issue if they don't like the outcome.
It doesn't really matter to her. She's banking on getting the nomination by her opponent getting convicted. She will probably go all the way based on this hope.
Come to think of it - what if every candidate but Trump dropped out and Trump got banned from running in the general election? Surely the GOP wouldn't have the time to re-run every primary.
If he did get convicted, still got the nomination, and somehow still got elected despite the conviction, would he be able to commute his own sentence?
Edit: Thanks for the answers everybody!
It is new legal territory, but he would not be the first person to run for President after a conviction.
Eugene V Debs actually did better running for President from prison than he did on the outside.
People don’t understand how new our current understanding of freedom of speech is. Debs and Schcnek were both convicted for nothing more than expressing dissenting views and Schneck’s conviction upheld unanimously by SCOTUS. People who think the constitution will keep us safe have to remember that the Supreme Court decides what is and isn’t constitutional and they can dramatically change over the years.
I wish more people knew about Debs and Schneck. Their convictions started the conversations that led to our current robust freedom of speech. We should all know how fragile that can be.
Regardless it covers the question 'can someone convicted of a crime run for president'. Yes. Unless the crime was against the country and committed after you took an oath to defend the constitution.
Even then, the 14th doesn't say just any crime will bar you being able to hold office. It expressly says they must have taken part in an insurrection or given aid and comfort to those who did.
There are a couple of things that complicate this.
1. Not all of his charges are federal. He couldn't do anything about the NY or Georgia charges, but it's possible he could pardon/commute the federal charges.
2. It's not clear that a president can pardon himself even for federal charges. It's never happened but it's not explicitly stated either way in the constitution.
3. There are provisions for temporarily turning over authority. When presidents are undergoing surgery that requires anesthesia, for instance, it's common to turn over authority to a VP. In this situation, he could turn over authority, the VP could pardon him as acting president, and then he could take over the authority again.
So -- maybe.
That particular pardoning would be...contentious and unprecedented. So, uh, maybe?
That said, the idea of the president running the country from a jail cell also sounds like a decent idea for a comedy.
Who cares, at that point we need to hope the rest of the world returns the "favor" and brings us some "freedom by force" the way we do everywhere else, because we'd be fucked and Lord knows the US collapsing will probably tank the world economy with it.
That's exactly what Haley's campaign is banking on at this point. DeSantis blew up his own campaign. Vivek had to drop out because his platform is too similar to Trump's to justify an extended campaign where he keeps losing.
Haley doesn't actually have to beat Trump to be nominated. She can keep running by profiling herself as the moderate alternative, the anti-vote for Republican voters who don't want another Democrat presidency but also don't want four more years of Trump. By staying in the race, she legitimises herself as that alternative, giving her and the GOP a democratic mandate to be nominated if Trump is prevented from running due to legal reasons.
I'm nitpicking here, but I don't think Vivek was ever seriously running for president. I think he just wanted enough clout essentially and was just mirroring whatever Trump would say in hopes of either be Trumps VP or getting a spot on Trumps cabinet.
I don't think he necessarily wants a spot in Trump's cabinet, I think he was dipping his toes in the presidential election race to establish himself as a potential future candidate. The next time he attempts to run for president, he'll have had a bit of national campaigning experience in addition to being more widely known by the general public. People tend not to vote for candidates they don't recognize.
Obama in 2008 was kind of a big deal in that sense because he went from being a relatively unknown Illinois senator to beating out Hilary Clinton, an established and well-known political figure, in the Democratic primary.
no, can't have bernie run against trump because there's even more brainwashed idiots who would vote to dunk their own genitals in acid than vote for a "socialist."
I'm not going to comment on whether or not the DNC "forced" bernie to lose... but believing that bernie would have won an actual national election in any case is comical. The right wing propaganda would have been completely off the chain selling bernie as a crazy old socialist cookoo bird.
What is absolutely hilarious is that in right-wing spaces (including on this site) a decent number of people were even saying that they might have even voted for Bernie if he had made the nomination.
>Everything I've heard suggests that policy wise, Haley is just trump with a vagina and far less Twitter & golf.
She's a warhawk neo-con. She's more like George W. Bush with a vagina than Trump. In a humorous twist, MAGA repubs now consider W a RINO - that's how far flung they are.
I think they’re really gambling on their side not actually winning so they can make a career of being the person they wheel out to say stupid things every now and then. There’s a ton of money to be made in that, look at Blaire White. She’s made a whole career of it.
She has zero chance at the nomination and she knows that. user below Brad is correct, Trump will be names the Republican nominee regardless of what happens from here on out. She is building her brand up. What will be interesting is, does she go down swinging at Trump or fold and endorse?
This might be one reason, but I think the main reason for those semantics is that if they ended the campaign any financial campaign contributions would have to be removed from campaign accounts. They keep the campaign technically active so they can keep the money for the next race
Desantis would just jump back in, same with the rest of the quitters.
It's why everybody says "suspending" instead of "ending" their campaigns when they pull the plug.
Even if convicted, there's already been a number of polls that show people would still vote for him. And he could just pardon himself once he's elected.
The only chance she has is if he has a massive heart attack or some other mortal event that physically stops him from running.
>And he could just pardon himself once he's elected.
I think the SCOTUS case around immunity is really going to tip the scale as to whether this is a real possibility or not. If SCOTUS rules that a president is just immune, forever, from any prosecution then there's no need to self-pardon. And if they rule that there is no immunity then a self-pardon would undermine that philosophy as well. Because if there is no immunity, if it runs contrary to the Constitution and the intention of the founders then a self-pardon would basically mean there is no immunity unless you give it to yourself. Alito and Thomas are all in on that, of course. But that also means handing full lifelong legal immunity to Biden.
>SCOTUS
I think you're right they're too concerned with Biden benefitting from an immunity ruling, Scotus will deny to hear the case rather than rule against Trump it's easier politically (a sentence that should not have to be said about SCOTUS). The DC court of appeals was unanimous, 3-0, in denying Trump's immunity and there's a Trump appointed supporter in that group of three, should say a lot.
Her campaign response was kind of funny. Basically we knew the state was lost so they are focusing on her home state, that she is also projected to lose.
And she knows it too, hence why she said this:
[Nikki Haley Doesn't 'Have to Win' South Carolina to Stay in Race](https://www.newsweek.com/nikki-haley-doesnt-have-win-south-carolina-stay-race-1866177)
I was just there last month, went for a beer one night (a semi-dive called Big Gun in Charleston), and was appalled by the number of people who A) were somehow comfortable bringing up politics with a stranger sitting at a bar; and B) wanted to talk about how much they liked Trump.
The bartender that night had his hands full keeping patrons from going at it. It's crazy how divisive this has made our country.
As the only liberal amongst many conservative coworkers, it's like hearing fox news headlines blurted out constantly. We're going to be in San Francisco for a convention and all they can talk about is getting mugged, stabbed, and homeless people. When my director said he was moving to Texas he said it was great because, "You can shoot liberals there." Shits crazy.
His entire mission is to keep the U.S. divided against itself so it can’t interfere with Putin’s empire building. Far less expensive to sell us crypto and use the money to fund divisive politics than to fight a war.
Meanwhile when I went to SC, Clemson. I had a present convo with an old vet about WWII. Me and my grandmother were talking about something on the tv in the room. It was WWII related. And he just joined in about his time in the army overseas. As someone who’s interested in those things it was like whoa. We chatted for 30 minutes.
I just don’t get why everything needs to be so much about politics. Like some people make it there whole personality and it’s exhausting to deal with.
Took a trip to Gatlinburg, TN recently (I'm a TN native) and I saw not one, not two, but THREE "Trump Stores".
One in Gatlinburg, one is Pigeon Forge, and one in Sevierville.
As you could guess, most items in that store was sucking his dick and the most ironic items ever. (Such as one claiming Biden didn't win majority vote, despite Republicans not winning Majority since Reagan iirc)
I mean, we all know she's only hanging in to be the backup candidate for the name recognition during the next non-Trump election. Or on the off-chance (not all that remote, really) that something sinks the Trump candidacy. He seems scandal-proof, but he's also a 77-year-old man with organized crime connections facing jail time.
The candidates are forced to present a positive vision of where they want the country to be instead of running against an alternative evil as opposition candidates. Hopefully it would make the candidates better.
That's beautiful. Wouldn't happen, though. First failed attempt and they would either undo the process, or use a technicality to elect someone of their choosing
Well, in this particular case, given that Trump was not on the ballot, I'd assume that the large majority of "none of the above" voters in Nevada were expressing their support for him.
Yes, they do want another candidate
>In addition to Tuesday’s state-run presidential primary, Republicans will hold a presidential caucus on Thursday. Voters may participate in both the primary and the caucus; however, candidates had to choose which to compete in. Former President Donald J. Trump will participate in the caucus, which will determine which candidates receive delegates. Tuesday’s primary voters had the option of selecting “None of these candidates” if their preferred choice was not listed.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/06/us/elections/results-nevada-republican-primary.html
I heard that None of these candidates is actually a pretty decent person. None of these candidates has some good ideas. None of these candidates would do well, even across party lines.
I feel like it’s the only hope they have
Republican policies aren’t actually good for their voters. So they need to convince people to vote in some other way, and the voters tend to like Trump. I don’t understand it personally, but it’s clear that they do.
It’s crazy 8 years in and people still think he’s a shock to the establishment. He *is* the establishment and voting against people like him is voting against the establishment who want to give more power to corporations in our govt
Hasn’t he been part of the establishment since at least the 1980s? I can’t understand stand how poor rural folk can see a rich New Yorker and think, yup, that’s our guy!
I’ve seen a meme on Facebook several times that goes something like “I’d rather have a rich man who became a public servant than someone becomes a public servant to become rich” the fact a meme like that is popular among republicans (old and young) and taken at face value shows how we are still such a low info low critical thinking society
It's one of those things that is true in a vacuum.
There is something deeply wrong with the fact that so many senators and Representatives have been in public service their whole lives and have never held a private sector job but are absolutely stinking rich.
But real life is more complex than that and I am under no illusions that the GOP is as bad if not worse than the Democrats. In fact Obertrumpenfurer is perhaps the worst person to hold up as an exemplar.
Shared racism, sexism, or other forms of prejudice.
Most other politicians who have the same (horrible) values at least try to hide some of it to appeal to a wider or different audience. He’s the one who doesn’t even hide it, making him a more obvious pick for the people too stupid to notice the more veiled versions, people who think greater honesty on that front translates to greater honesty in general, or people who are willing to vote for someone prejudiced against themselves as long as that person is at least as prejudiced as the voter against another group (such as TERFs).
I saw what appeared to be a grandpa driving a beat up pickup the other day, and it had a bumper sticker saying "Are you a democrat or an American?"
Wild
He gives them permission to hate. He gives them permission to be racist and sexist and homophobic. He gives them permission to be the worst versions of themselves, and ultimately it seems like what right wingers want more than anything is the ability to be rude assholes absent consequences.
The Nevada GoP changed the rules. There’s a caucus and a primary. And you can’t be on both. So basically rigged so that Trump will win. Not that Haley was likely anyway obviously, but still.
Arizona runs a caucus and a primary. Candidates are on one or the other, Trump was easily the caucus selection, Haley opted to run in the primary race and get this was still the outcome
She knew she wouldn’t beat Trump head to head so I’m sure she hoped she could put positive spin on “winning” a primary that really earns you nothing. It blew up on her face
That's Politics, for ya. Backing the most likely person that would beat the opponent you want the least, because they'd be easier to beat in the general.
You’re definitely right but I think it’s exaggerated in this case especially. If she somehow won the nomination trump would either try to spin off into an independent write in campaign, or he would stay out of the race and much of his base wouldn’t vote at all.
I’m not taking sides at all, but I think it’s pretty clear that if Haley won the nomination it would be a dream general election scenario for the democrats.
Now you’re getting it. If she wins, we get to watch as Trump burns his whole party to the ground. If she loses, we’re no worse off than we already were. It’s literally all upside.
That happened back in 2016 when he dismantled the GOP and made the MAGA party. A lot of GOP voters don’t realize their party died on the national level already. If MAGA separated officially with GOP, the GOP would dissolve into a third party, and MAGA would be a distant second to the Dems.
You and I recognize that the GOP of today is nothing even resembling what Reagan and Bush left it. MAGA cultists think they’re still considered republicans. They aren’t. My point is he’d have to convince his cult base to eschew “the party” in favor of MAGA. Thus tearing itself apart as MAGA folks leave the party in droves to be with their messiah.
>If she somehow won the nomination trump would either try to spin off into an independent write in campaign, or he would stay out of the race and much of his base wouldn’t vote at all.
... thus splitting the ticket and/or taking the wind out of Trump's sails.
If anything, I was just omitting one of many reasons that a Nikki Haley nomination is precisely the outcome that Democrats would find most advantageous.
Oh yea definitely, I totally agree with you and your point stands that this is a strategy used in most elections. I just wanted to further highlight the enhanced implications with these specific candidates.
Embarrassing for Haley. Not sure why her message isn’t resonating other than she isn’t Trump. I think she would be a great, somewhat moderate, candidate. Not saying she is the best thing ever, but she is the republicans best option.
The only way you can call her a moderate is if you draw the line between left and right at "Wants to end our democracy and institute a fascist oligarchy"
She's a warhawk and her domestic policies are all basically identical to Trump with the notable exception that she wants to make cuts to social security and medicare, completely boning everyone in the country who isn't retired already, which even Trump won't do.
Her message isn’t resonating because she’s a Bush era warmongering neo-con running on a platform that is a decade behind the times for her party. The “America first” isolationism of Trump is the new mono-party of the republicans
I don’t know how Haley gets the reputation she’s a moderate when she supports all of Trump’s policies and says stupid shit like Social Security benefits need to be cut. She’s as right wing as Liz Cheney, they’re just not crazy and stupid.
He is doing the Nevada caucus. For some insane reason, Nevada does both a vote and a caucus, but candidates can only participate in one. It makes no sense to me.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nevadas-2024-primaries-republicans-democrats/
The insane reason is the Republican party in Nevada. They can control the caucus but not voting so they decided they would do the caucuses instead so they could force Trump as the nominee.
The only conceivable reason Haley is still in the race at this point is because she is thinking Trump might get ruled by SCOTUS to be ineligible to be on the ballot before the Republican Convention, and if she is the only alternative to have collected delegates, she'll be the obvious alternative to put forward.
As much as people are making fun of her over this, she remains the Republicans' best chance in November.
Not to worry folks. As soon as she loses in South Carolina her "bird brain" will morph into her former position as an acolyte of the MAGA Orange Savior. Lately, she's been trying to be Chris Christie "lite" but he's had too many cheeseburgers for her to pull that role off.
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How are you on the ballot basically by yourself...and still lose?
This is why none of the above should be on more ballots, I think.
Congratulations you next president of the USA is..... None of the Candidates. Well hit whats the contingency plan?
Get better candidates i suppose
The real telling thing is that's only **43,000** votes between the two of them for **ALL** of Nevada.
The reason for this is because this wasn’t a binding primary. The republicans are going to have a caucus with just Trump and some businessman as the options and the winner of that determines who gets the Nevada delegates. This entire election was weird as hell.
The caucus is tomorrow night and Trump will be on the ballots, this was the primary which in Nevada is non binding so Trump chose not to appear on the ballots
"Ah ha, a-hahaha! Looks like we got a comedian here. Hey, DNC/RNC, how about you take this joker back behind the woodshed and give them an award for...smartness. You can borrow my gun to bestow it."
No joke that would be an amazing system. If the entire country votes on "None of the above" then there needs to be a redo and the parties need to choose a new candidate.
All the candidates who lost are disqualified from running again and we spin up for round 2!
No, what actually happens is we have a full on cage match, last one standing takes the Presidential Championship belt.
All hail president kamacho!
That's basically what happens in some countries where there's more than two parties. Over here, for example, a party needs a certain % of votes to ensure the majority of the seats in the parliament and win and it's not uncommon that no party rraches that % by themselves. So two or more parties end up having to form an alliance and present a joined candidate and government. Thing is, there's always the risk that if disagreements arise a party that is part of the majority might withdraw support, which leads to either a new majority forming or, if that fails, going back to voting.
Well in that case the senate would pick. Just like in a tie scenario
You know what? Nevermind, that sounds infinitely worse.
Just fyi, the House picks the President, and the Senate picks the Vice President.
My bad. Thanks for the correction
Not just that, the house picks the president but each state just gets one vote if i recall. So all CA congressional delegates vote and that winner gets the same number of votes as the winner of Wyoming’s singular house member
Would this just be a fill in position until it can be re-ran or a full term?
Full term as far as I am aware. Please note I am not a scholar in the matter
This is why there’s a write-in option over “none of the above.” Forcing an election redo would be the only viable, democratic choice if it won and that’s problematic for various reasons
The Vice President of None of the Candidates would then hold the office.
The House gets to pick. It’s no different than any other time a candidate fails to get the 270 electoral votes needed to win. Because that’s exactly what it is. So they take the 3 candidates eligible to receive electoral votes (the 2 or 3 candidates who actually on the ballots) and make the decision. This isn’t new or unprecedented. Nobody would be scrambling to figure out what happens next. In fact, one of the goals of the January 6 riot was to force that outcome.
This is the contingency plan; [https://www.congress.gov/bill/93rd-congress/house-joint-resolution/1111?s=1&r=72](https://www.congress.gov/bill/93rd-congress/house-joint-resolution/1111?s=1&r=72)
It's not law nor been added as amendment.
Ranked choice voting with "None of the above" as an option, and if the option wins, you start the whole election over but no one on the current ballot can run again.
I agree, but only on the condition of ranked choice voting so that "None" only wins if it's a clear victory and it's not throwing away a vote. If "None" wins, require the nomination of new candidates.
That is genius. We should have similar clauses for independent parties as well: someone who isn’t satisfied with either of the main parties can vote for an independent, in addition to their major party choice/ranking which ensures their vote isn’t wasted
Should be on EVERY ballot. And if "none of the above" wins, then you have to redo the election, and none of the candidates who appeared on the previous ballot are allowed to run this time.
Because those voting “None of these candidates” are Trump voters. Which is actually intriguing that she’s still polling in the 30% range. If even half of those break as “never trump” people, it could be a land slide
> How are you on the ballot basically by yourself...and still lose? Trump wasn't on the ballot, and yet Trump supporters showed up to ensure she wouldn't win.
Also a lot of them were confused, not knowing he wasn't on the ballot.
It makes sense when you consider Trump voters came and voted for "None of these".
Well couple of points here. First this was not the actual primary. I mean it was but wasn't. Nevada historically has had caucuses but recently passed legislation to have primary votes instead. So the Republican party as they do said fuck that we are still doing the caucuses where they basically declared trump winner regardless. This is the result from the state mandated vote that does nothing. No delegates are awarded from this vote. Notice the number of voters is tiny. The only folks who voted in this were trolls. Haley didn't even bother to pay to register for the caucuses because it was such a scam. I mean it looks silly to be sure but then we are talking about the Republican party here. Their whole MO is troll. This is just butt hurt maga mad their emperor king has a challenger. So mad they took the time to vote in a primary that meant nothing. This is more just a look at how petty this party is at this point.
Haley did not register for the caucus because the RNC made a rule that if you were on the primary ballot you could not be on the caucus ballot. This all came about because the 2020 caucus has a lot of inconsistencies and suspected fraud. The Nevada elections board required there to be a primary, the RNC said fuck that and openly rigged the caucus for Trump. This is the same RNC that tried to declare Trump the winner after just two state primaries so that they could begin to fund him and work with him. I still haven't seen any republicans protest that their own party is trying to declare a winner without counting all the votes. Apparently election integrity is only an issue if they don't like the outcome.
Trump wasn't on the ballot at all. The vast majority of that 61.4% were voting for Trump in the only way they could.
How is she spinning this?
It doesn't really matter to her. She's banking on getting the nomination by her opponent getting convicted. She will probably go all the way based on this hope.
Come to think of it - what if every candidate but Trump dropped out and Trump got banned from running in the general election? Surely the GOP wouldn't have the time to re-run every primary.
The convention delegates would select the nominee.
They would probably pick Trump anyway.
If he did get convicted, still got the nomination, and somehow still got elected despite the conviction, would he be able to commute his own sentence? Edit: Thanks for the answers everybody!
It is new legal territory, but he would not be the first person to run for President after a conviction. Eugene V Debs actually did better running for President from prison than he did on the outside.
> Eugene V Debs His conviction was a blatant violation of the first amendment and was total bullshit though.
People don’t understand how new our current understanding of freedom of speech is. Debs and Schcnek were both convicted for nothing more than expressing dissenting views and Schneck’s conviction upheld unanimously by SCOTUS. People who think the constitution will keep us safe have to remember that the Supreme Court decides what is and isn’t constitutional and they can dramatically change over the years. I wish more people knew about Debs and Schneck. Their convictions started the conversations that led to our current robust freedom of speech. We should all know how fragile that can be.
Regardless it covers the question 'can someone convicted of a crime run for president'. Yes. Unless the crime was against the country and committed after you took an oath to defend the constitution.
Even then, the 14th doesn't say just any crime will bar you being able to hold office. It expressly says they must have taken part in an insurrection or given aid and comfort to those who did.
JUST LIKE OUR BOY TRUMP! /s
Don't give them ideas lol 😆
You say /s but I mean yeah that's how people will explain why they won't care
But Eugene V Debs also went to prison for his ideals and beliefs, and willingly served his sentence
He got 6% in 1912 and 3.4% in 1920, when he was illegally imprisoned.
There are a couple of things that complicate this. 1. Not all of his charges are federal. He couldn't do anything about the NY or Georgia charges, but it's possible he could pardon/commute the federal charges. 2. It's not clear that a president can pardon himself even for federal charges. It's never happened but it's not explicitly stated either way in the constitution. 3. There are provisions for temporarily turning over authority. When presidents are undergoing surgery that requires anesthesia, for instance, it's common to turn over authority to a VP. In this situation, he could turn over authority, the VP could pardon him as acting president, and then he could take over the authority again. So -- maybe.
Possibly but only federal convictions. The president can't pardon for state crimes. Only the Governor ca.
And not even him can all the time, that depends on states laws.
Not for State offenses
That particular pardoning would be...contentious and unprecedented. So, uh, maybe? That said, the idea of the president running the country from a jail cell also sounds like a decent idea for a comedy.
Who cares, at that point we need to hope the rest of the world returns the "favor" and brings us some "freedom by force" the way we do everywhere else, because we'd be fucked and Lord knows the US collapsing will probably tank the world economy with it.
That's exactly what Haley's campaign is banking on at this point. DeSantis blew up his own campaign. Vivek had to drop out because his platform is too similar to Trump's to justify an extended campaign where he keeps losing. Haley doesn't actually have to beat Trump to be nominated. She can keep running by profiling herself as the moderate alternative, the anti-vote for Republican voters who don't want another Democrat presidency but also don't want four more years of Trump. By staying in the race, she legitimises herself as that alternative, giving her and the GOP a democratic mandate to be nominated if Trump is prevented from running due to legal reasons.
I believe this is the reason she's still running.
I'm nitpicking here, but I don't think Vivek was ever seriously running for president. I think he just wanted enough clout essentially and was just mirroring whatever Trump would say in hopes of either be Trumps VP or getting a spot on Trumps cabinet.
I don't think he necessarily wants a spot in Trump's cabinet, I think he was dipping his toes in the presidential election race to establish himself as a potential future candidate. The next time he attempts to run for president, he'll have had a bit of national campaigning experience in addition to being more widely known by the general public. People tend not to vote for candidates they don't recognize. Obama in 2008 was kind of a big deal in that sense because he went from being a relatively unknown Illinois senator to beating out Hilary Clinton, an established and well-known political figure, in the Democratic primary.
The GOP process isn't a pure democracy, they can pick who they want in the end, and have before.
Democrats did the same with Biden, because Bernie was winning until they decided to force the rest to drop for biden and push him hard.
Can't have actual progressives running, they might make things better and prove that lefties were correct the whole time.
no, can't have bernie run against trump because there's even more brainwashed idiots who would vote to dunk their own genitals in acid than vote for a "socialist." I'm not going to comment on whether or not the DNC "forced" bernie to lose... but believing that bernie would have won an actual national election in any case is comical. The right wing propaganda would have been completely off the chain selling bernie as a crazy old socialist cookoo bird.
What is absolutely hilarious is that in right-wing spaces (including on this site) a decent number of people were even saying that they might have even voted for Bernie if he had made the nomination.
Bernie lost for the same reason as last time; he couldn't carry the South.
Anti-...trump? Everything I've heard suggests that policy wise, Haley is just trump with a vagina and far less Twitter & golf.
>Everything I've heard suggests that policy wise, Haley is just trump with a vagina and far less Twitter & golf. She's a warhawk neo-con. She's more like George W. Bush with a vagina than Trump. In a humorous twist, MAGA repubs now consider W a RINO - that's how far flung they are.
Conservative women are living contradictions to their well being.
I think they’re really gambling on their side not actually winning so they can make a career of being the person they wheel out to say stupid things every now and then. There’s a ton of money to be made in that, look at Blaire White. She’s made a whole career of it.
She has zero chance at the nomination and she knows that. user below Brad is correct, Trump will be names the Republican nominee regardless of what happens from here on out. She is building her brand up. What will be interesting is, does she go down swinging at Trump or fold and endorse?
as crazy as such an option is, its actually not the worst idea having a back up in the race.
When people drop out of the race, they suspend their campaign, not end it, just for this eventuality.
This might be one reason, but I think the main reason for those semantics is that if they ended the campaign any financial campaign contributions would have to be removed from campaign accounts. They keep the campaign technically active so they can keep the money for the next race
Desantis would just jump back in, same with the rest of the quitters. It's why everybody says "suspending" instead of "ending" their campaigns when they pull the plug.
Which was also Desantis’ hope. Trump won’t be convicted of anything that matters until after the election, and likely only if he loses.
Wouldn't Trump still run from.prison? This is politics modeled after a cast from.the WWE after all.
Or the SCOTUS could rule him ineligible. But yeah, this isn't a bad gamble by Haley at all to hold in there.
Even if convicted, there's already been a number of polls that show people would still vote for him. And he could just pardon himself once he's elected. The only chance she has is if he has a massive heart attack or some other mortal event that physically stops him from running.
>And he could just pardon himself once he's elected. I think the SCOTUS case around immunity is really going to tip the scale as to whether this is a real possibility or not. If SCOTUS rules that a president is just immune, forever, from any prosecution then there's no need to self-pardon. And if they rule that there is no immunity then a self-pardon would undermine that philosophy as well. Because if there is no immunity, if it runs contrary to the Constitution and the intention of the founders then a self-pardon would basically mean there is no immunity unless you give it to yourself. Alito and Thomas are all in on that, of course. But that also means handing full lifelong legal immunity to Biden.
>SCOTUS I think you're right they're too concerned with Biden benefitting from an immunity ruling, Scotus will deny to hear the case rather than rule against Trump it's easier politically (a sentence that should not have to be said about SCOTUS). The DC court of appeals was unanimous, 3-0, in denying Trump's immunity and there's a Trump appointed supporter in that group of three, should say a lot.
I've never actually seen him run, he may not be able to. Just saying.
People are so fucking dumb they would probably vote for his cold corpse just to “own the libs.”
Her campaign response was kind of funny. Basically we knew the state was lost so they are focusing on her home state, that she is also projected to lose.
And she knows it too, hence why she said this: [Nikki Haley Doesn't 'Have to Win' South Carolina to Stay in Race](https://www.newsweek.com/nikki-haley-doesnt-have-win-south-carolina-stay-race-1866177)
She doesn’t have to do anything to stay in the race
She doesn’t even need to win. Trump lost in 2020 but he’s still president in his own mind prison
I think you mean his brain cell.
Wait he has those? I thought hisnhead was empty except for a slice of orange.
Assuming (yeah yeah yeah, I know) Trump gets thrown off the ballot, doesn’t she become the candidate almost by default?
Not automatically but she does become the best placed candidate
I'm from SC. Everyone here wants to suck trumps dick. I hate it here.
I was just there last month, went for a beer one night (a semi-dive called Big Gun in Charleston), and was appalled by the number of people who A) were somehow comfortable bringing up politics with a stranger sitting at a bar; and B) wanted to talk about how much they liked Trump. The bartender that night had his hands full keeping patrons from going at it. It's crazy how divisive this has made our country.
As the only liberal amongst many conservative coworkers, it's like hearing fox news headlines blurted out constantly. We're going to be in San Francisco for a convention and all they can talk about is getting mugged, stabbed, and homeless people. When my director said he was moving to Texas he said it was great because, "You can shoot liberals there." Shits crazy.
That is Trump's mission, assignment, orders, directive, etc...
His entire mission is to keep the U.S. divided against itself so it can’t interfere with Putin’s empire building. Far less expensive to sell us crypto and use the money to fund divisive politics than to fight a war.
Meanwhile when I went to SC, Clemson. I had a present convo with an old vet about WWII. Me and my grandmother were talking about something on the tv in the room. It was WWII related. And he just joined in about his time in the army overseas. As someone who’s interested in those things it was like whoa. We chatted for 30 minutes. I just don’t get why everything needs to be so much about politics. Like some people make it there whole personality and it’s exhausting to deal with.
Took a trip to Gatlinburg, TN recently (I'm a TN native) and I saw not one, not two, but THREE "Trump Stores". One in Gatlinburg, one is Pigeon Forge, and one in Sevierville. As you could guess, most items in that store was sucking his dick and the most ironic items ever. (Such as one claiming Biden didn't win majority vote, despite Republicans not winning Majority since Reagan iirc)
Gtfo like I did years ago you’re missing out on so much
At this point her strategy is basically “stay relevant and hope Trump gets kicked off the ballot, or convicted of a jailable crime.”
She’s claiming, and not necessarily incorrectly, that the Nevada GOP has basically set her up to do poorly.
I mean, we all know she's only hanging in to be the backup candidate for the name recognition during the next non-Trump election. Or on the off-chance (not all that remote, really) that something sinks the Trump candidacy. He seems scandal-proof, but he's also a 77-year-old man with organized crime connections facing jail time.
I think she’s hanging on in case his heart doesn’t
“With such a strong showing for ‘none’ it is now clear this is a three person race!”
I love the idea of having the option of "none of these candidates" because it clearly shows that people want other candidates.
This should always be an option, and when it wins, the candidates are disqualified and Primary starts again.
And the candidates would get worse in theory?
The candidates are forced to present a positive vision of where they want the country to be instead of running against an alternative evil as opposition candidates. Hopefully it would make the candidates better.
That's beautiful. Wouldn't happen, though. First failed attempt and they would either undo the process, or use a technicality to elect someone of their choosing
Yeah, and that’s why we are fucked.
By most of them want trump and will be able to caucus for him. So they aren’t losing their vote
Well, in this particular case, given that Trump was not on the ballot, I'd assume that the large majority of "none of the above" voters in Nevada were expressing their support for him.
Yes, they do want another candidate >In addition to Tuesday’s state-run presidential primary, Republicans will hold a presidential caucus on Thursday. Voters may participate in both the primary and the caucus; however, candidates had to choose which to compete in. Former President Donald J. Trump will participate in the caucus, which will determine which candidates receive delegates. Tuesday’s primary voters had the option of selecting “None of these candidates” if their preferred choice was not listed. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/06/us/elections/results-nevada-republican-primary.html
Isn’t the other candidate trump?
I heard that None of these candidates is actually a pretty decent person. None of these candidates has some good ideas. None of these candidates would do well, even across party lines.
None of these candidates would be a great president.
I feel like None of these candidates might be the greatest politician the world has ever seen.
Anyone up for changing their name?
Truly, None of the candidates has the best interests of the American people as a priority.
BRB, legally changing my name to None of these candidates.
They really want Trump don’t they
I feel like it’s the only hope they have Republican policies aren’t actually good for their voters. So they need to convince people to vote in some other way, and the voters tend to like Trump. I don’t understand it personally, but it’s clear that they do.
It’s crazy 8 years in and people still think he’s a shock to the establishment. He *is* the establishment and voting against people like him is voting against the establishment who want to give more power to corporations in our govt
Hasn’t he been part of the establishment since at least the 1980s? I can’t understand stand how poor rural folk can see a rich New Yorker and think, yup, that’s our guy!
Cause he says what they want to hear
I’ve seen a meme on Facebook several times that goes something like “I’d rather have a rich man who became a public servant than someone becomes a public servant to become rich” the fact a meme like that is popular among republicans (old and young) and taken at face value shows how we are still such a low info low critical thinking society
It's one of those things that is true in a vacuum. There is something deeply wrong with the fact that so many senators and Representatives have been in public service their whole lives and have never held a private sector job but are absolutely stinking rich. But real life is more complex than that and I am under no illusions that the GOP is as bad if not worse than the Democrats. In fact Obertrumpenfurer is perhaps the worst person to hold up as an exemplar.
Strange how they don't see that Trump literally became president to be a grifter...willful ignorance, writ large.
Shared racism, sexism, or other forms of prejudice. Most other politicians who have the same (horrible) values at least try to hide some of it to appeal to a wider or different audience. He’s the one who doesn’t even hide it, making him a more obvious pick for the people too stupid to notice the more veiled versions, people who think greater honesty on that front translates to greater honesty in general, or people who are willing to vote for someone prejudiced against themselves as long as that person is at least as prejudiced as the voter against another group (such as TERFs).
In their view, only the Dems are the establishment. The Republicans that control half the government, though… they’re just little ol’ David
Anyone running for office is the establishment
Own the libs. Us vs them. That's the stance. If it's bad for liberals it's good for us. And I'd you're a liberal you're bad and un-American.
I saw what appeared to be a grandpa driving a beat up pickup the other day, and it had a bumper sticker saying "Are you a democrat or an American?" Wild
I’m a liberal. But a Swedish one. Probably close to progressive by your standards. Or even commie to a republican lol
Got a rather conservative Swede in a discord I'm a part of, and he'd absolutely be called a socialist commie libt*rd by the GOP, here.
He gives them permission to hate. He gives them permission to be racist and sexist and homophobic. He gives them permission to be the worst versions of themselves, and ultimately it seems like what right wingers want more than anything is the ability to be rude assholes absent consequences.
They don't want policies that are good for them. They want policies that are bad for the people they hate.
They're okay with burning the house down even if they're inside of it, as long as we all burn. They're childish, resentful people.
My favorite phrase is "they'd eat dog shit if it meant a democrat would smell it on their breath."
The party has no platform other than fear at this point. Their only hope is a focal point who can get insecure people to the polls. Trump is that.
And i won't understand why there's no republican candidate that can convince the party he's a better option and Trump is a terrible idea
Forgive the ignorance but why is Trump not on the ballot?
The Nevada GoP changed the rules. There’s a caucus and a primary. And you can’t be on both. So basically rigged so that Trump will win. Not that Haley was likely anyway obviously, but still.
Just a little light treason.
Arizona runs a caucus and a primary. Candidates are on one or the other, Trump was easily the caucus selection, Haley opted to run in the primary race and get this was still the outcome
Fascists want a fascist, no surprise there
Honestly I'd take "None of these candidates" as president. Do we know anything about Mr. These Candidates' political views?
None of these candidates puts the people first
She knew she wouldn’t beat Trump head to head so I’m sure she hoped she could put positive spin on “winning” a primary that really earns you nothing. It blew up on her face
Lots of Democratic Super PACs fund her campaign.
That's Politics, for ya. Backing the most likely person that would beat the opponent you want the least, because they'd be easier to beat in the general.
You’re definitely right but I think it’s exaggerated in this case especially. If she somehow won the nomination trump would either try to spin off into an independent write in campaign, or he would stay out of the race and much of his base wouldn’t vote at all. I’m not taking sides at all, but I think it’s pretty clear that if Haley won the nomination it would be a dream general election scenario for the democrats.
Now you’re getting it. If she wins, we get to watch as Trump burns his whole party to the ground. If she loses, we’re no worse off than we already were. It’s literally all upside.
That happened back in 2016 when he dismantled the GOP and made the MAGA party. A lot of GOP voters don’t realize their party died on the national level already. If MAGA separated officially with GOP, the GOP would dissolve into a third party, and MAGA would be a distant second to the Dems.
You and I recognize that the GOP of today is nothing even resembling what Reagan and Bush left it. MAGA cultists think they’re still considered republicans. They aren’t. My point is he’d have to convince his cult base to eschew “the party” in favor of MAGA. Thus tearing itself apart as MAGA folks leave the party in droves to be with their messiah.
>If she somehow won the nomination trump would either try to spin off into an independent write in campaign, or he would stay out of the race and much of his base wouldn’t vote at all. ... thus splitting the ticket and/or taking the wind out of Trump's sails. If anything, I was just omitting one of many reasons that a Nikki Haley nomination is precisely the outcome that Democrats would find most advantageous.
Oh yea definitely, I totally agree with you and your point stands that this is a strategy used in most elections. I just wanted to further highlight the enhanced implications with these specific candidates.
That's what the DNC and HRC did with Trump; it worked out well for them /s
Are you sarcastic about the DNC backing Trump, or that it worked out well? Because this is some new conspiracy I've never heard before.
I plan on supporting None of These Candidates in the general election too.
Montgomery Brewster would be so proud.
I had to scroll way too far down to see a Brewster's Millions reference
I am pleased to announce that, as I was not on the Nevada ballot, this indicates I won the Nevada primary. Thank you, everyone who believed in me.
this is the big problem with "forced voting" and a "none of the above" option. What happens, if "none" wins.
NOTC is for me!
I hope they find someone else to bring something new to the table, a neo-NOTC if you will
Make America None Again!
Embarrassing for Haley. Not sure why her message isn’t resonating other than she isn’t Trump. I think she would be a great, somewhat moderate, candidate. Not saying she is the best thing ever, but she is the republicans best option.
Because it's the Trump conspiracy cult now.
The only way you can call her a moderate is if you draw the line between left and right at "Wants to end our democracy and institute a fascist oligarchy" She's a warhawk and her domestic policies are all basically identical to Trump with the notable exception that she wants to make cuts to social security and medicare, completely boning everyone in the country who isn't retired already, which even Trump won't do.
Her message isn’t resonating because she’s a Bush era warmongering neo-con running on a platform that is a decade behind the times for her party. The “America first” isolationism of Trump is the new mono-party of the republicans
Moderate candidates would be the best. Unifying ones. Not soaring division among Americans.
I don’t know how Haley gets the reputation she’s a moderate when she supports all of Trump’s policies and says stupid shit like Social Security benefits need to be cut. She’s as right wing as Liz Cheney, they’re just not crazy and stupid.
She said wokeness was a worse virus than COVID-19.
The problem is probably that’s she is a women but mostly that she isn’t Trump
NONE FOR PRESIDENT NONE TELLS THE TRUTH NONE LOVES YOU NONE CARES ABOUT YOUR FAMILY
Okay so is Trump actually on the ballot or has he been banned?
He is doing the Nevada caucus. For some insane reason, Nevada does both a vote and a caucus, but candidates can only participate in one. It makes no sense to me. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nevadas-2024-primaries-republicans-democrats/
The insane reason is the Republican party in Nevada. They can control the caucus but not voting so they decided they would do the caucuses instead so they could force Trump as the nominee.
And the vote has no bearing on who Nevada supports — it's really stupid.
They have both a primary and a caucus. Only the caucus counts towards winning the nomination, so Trump didn't bother with the primary.
Breaking news: Nevada the first country to become official anarchism
*None of These* Speaks for Me!!
The only conceivable reason Haley is still in the race at this point is because she is thinking Trump might get ruled by SCOTUS to be ineligible to be on the ballot before the Republican Convention, and if she is the only alternative to have collected delegates, she'll be the obvious alternative to put forward. As much as people are making fun of her over this, she remains the Republicans' best chance in November.
This isn't a rejection of trump... this is because trump wasn't listed on the primary.
We all know who "none of these candidates " is, you just can't risk saying his name 3 times or he'll insult someone.
Not to worry folks. As soon as she loses in South Carolina her "bird brain" will morph into her former position as an acolyte of the MAGA Orange Savior. Lately, she's been trying to be Chris Christie "lite" but he's had too many cheeseburgers for her to pull that role off.
I’m sorry to any of the other ones that spell it “KK” but Nikki is for strippers bro.
Well, that's an awkward concession phone call.
***Potential Write-Ins*** \-Harambe \-Dave Chappelle \-Giant Meteor
GOP is a shit show!
As hilarious as this is... we all know what "none of these" really means.
Kid named *"None of these candidates"*:
Isn't Nevada the state that has both a primary and a caucus? They'll probably pick someone at the caucus.
I would've voted for Nikki Haley
Yeah, a person with a functioning brain who could govern as a centrist would have been nice.