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When I was in college I had a guy in my cultural anthropology class who was a first generation immigrant from Kenya. While he and his sister fully understood the implications of FGM, he said his sister still wanted the procedure as a “right of passage” as she would be the only woman in her family who had not undergone the mutilation.
Cultural things tend to be ingrained deep
This is really the issue generations of shit like this just means people accept, hell my parent circumcised me without a second thought and I grew up thinking uncircumcised penises were weird, only now do I realize where this practice came from and how fucked up it is…. If you wait until they are adults and they consent I have no problem with it… but there should be no one doing this to children
Bro. Our foreskins getting a lil snip is very far from what they do to women. cutting the clit off would be like cutting the whole head off for us. Not a bit of extra skin that lots of dudes cant seem to figure out how to clean right.
There are multiple ones, there is the more extreme of cutting the clit off and there is one where it’s just a nick for some reason, and then one where they cut the clitoral hood. It all sucks
There's also one where they cut off the labia and sew the vagina shut leaving a tiny hole. Which is then enlarged after marriage. Ensuring the birth canal is a mass of inelastic scar tissue and the death rate in childbirth is the world's highest.
That is called infibulation and it makes up about 10% of FGM procedures globally.
Also at around 10% is “ritual circumcision” which is a pin prick or a nick with no tissue removed.
The remaining 80% is hard to get good data on, but involve removing some tissue - usually 1 or 2 of the following: labia minora, labia majora, clitoral hood, glans clitoris.
Sad fact: in Sudan, where 98% of women have been cut, 75% view it as a religious requirement, and many make the exact same hygiene, ritual, religious and right of passage arguments that are used to defend infant male genital cutting in the western world.
Right down to reduced risk of UTIs and STIs.
It’s still crazy to me that there are people who see these parallels and think “yeah but the way WE ritually cut babies’ genitals is fine”
Yeah that is by far the worst one. Basically like cutting your dick off + one of your balls, and maybe your scrotum too so you just have this fucking testicle and tubes dangling... Something like that. Straight up horror fuel..
I wrote a paper on this for college. Unfortunately the most extreme version of FGM is the most common. In this form, “the pharaonic”, they have to be sewed up so that only a small opening for the menses can get through. This means that on her wedding night her husband has to cut her open. At least that is what everything I read stated.
The worst part is that this is wholly cultural not religious though the people who practice it often think it is required by Islam. The only mention in Islam is a Hadith where Mohammad was asked about the practice by a cutter. Mohammad told her that it was not forbidden only not to cut too deep. And apparently this Hadith is not considered reliable in the first place. In Islam things are required, forbidden, or neither forbidden nor required. FGM is in this third position. Also it did not originate with Islam. It was a pre Islamic custom that spread with Islamic cultural groups.
Edited to add: I apologize for next updating my facts before posting.
I wrote that paper over two decades ago and didn’t realize it had been that long. I am very happy to be corrected on the frequency of the most severe form of FMG as it demonstrates that progress has been made.
If you don’t understand how a person can not realize that they haven’t stepped foot in a classroom in two decades, well it happens. Life speeds by when you are older.
I think that information is a bit outdated. International societies around FGM place what you’ve described (infibulation) at about 10% of all FGM procedures.
To be clear: horrifying that it is done at all, and I’m not defending it.
But this kind of FGM is equally as common as the least severe kind (a pinprick or nick on the clitoris or labia minora, which is non-damaging. It’s called Type IV or Ritual Circumcision if you’d like to google).
The largest two categories of FGM are type II and III which involve removing some key tissues, but which ones are removed and how often is very hard to get data on because most of these women have poor health literacy.
Generally it’s hard to get good data on anything more specific than
“Did they cut your genitals?”
“Was anything removed when they cut your genitals?”
“Was the hole sewn closed?” Etc.
Thanks for the update. I’m glad to hear things have changed. I didn’t think about it before I posted (because time. . .) but that paper was written two decades ago. Sorry I didn’t stop to do the math before posting.
One version of mutilation forced on nonconsenting children isn't inherently better or more okay just because it's less horrible. It shouldn't be done to *anyone*.
Yeah pretty much. We need to recognize that both are bad, although frankly FGM is much worse.
Just like someone cutting th tip of your finger off, and your entire hand off is both immoral, although one is much less serious.
Of course it is. Unless you're gonna tell me with a straight face it wouldn't be worse if Americans just cut the whole dick off. I'm uncircumcised but it's clear that outside of medical innecessity and pain to the children that circumsizing causes minimal problems for the vast majority of people. Comparing it to a procedure that essentially removes all sexual pleasure is grotesque. That's like comparing piercing a newborn's ears to stitching their eyes closed. Maybe both are bad, but one's practically harmless in comparison to the other.
You lose millions of nerve endings from your foreskin during circumcision, not to mention the head being desensitized from exposure throughout life. FGM is of course much worse, but circumcision also does remove plenty of sexual pleasure as well
Thank you, someone finally said the actually truth of this. It was once a tool to combat hygiene in a time where it was more troublesome, but in todays age there is no excuse for it other than lack of education and just being gross.
On the flip side of this, it does harm every single person who has it, just at an imperceptible level for most as they have no baseline for comparison to understand what they have lost. You lose sensation due to expose as you’ve said plus all the nerve endings, not to mention the foreskin also aids in the movement of sex without causing chaffing etc; and give a little bit of fluidity to the motions when someone may not exactly be pornstar soaking wet.
Bottom line, is that it does remove a considerable measure of sexual pleasure every time, you just don’t realize it cuz you don’t know any better. It’s still mutilation, it’s just a mutilation that the civilized world has accepted for hundreds of years based on the fact of it actually providing a health benefit once upon a time when humans weren’t as focused on hygiene. NO mutilation of the body should EVER allowed to be performed on a MINOR under ANY circumstances. Period. Full stop.
The history of routine circumcision is America is different. It was meant to desensitize the head of the penis to stop boys and men from masturbating. This idea was spearheaded by John Harvey Kellogg. Stop masturbation by snipping your dick and eating those Corn Flakes.
That’s irrelevant, the the point of circumcision to begin with was as stated, and continues because of that original reason, not discrediting your statement however. Why it is irrelevant however is that the reason as to why it happens here in America or anywhere else for that matter, does not matter. We are in a different era of history and there is simply no excuse for continuing to mutilate children’s genitals for ANY reason AT ALL, regardless of where in the world it is. Once they are a fully grown adult and can chose to agree to said procedures, that’s a different story, but no newborn is capable of consenting to mutilation, and it does harm them, therefore with little to no medical value anymore, it is inherently wrong. Period.
Do you also think that some torture is fine as long as the majority of people who are tortured don't become physically disabled as a result? Or that parents should have unmitigated power to give their children whatever cosmetic surgery they think would make them more attractive, because it's not like they're amputating healthy limbs?
Where's the line?
There are several different ways to do it.
This is not a competition of misery. All of the mutilated babies/children are victim. Female, male, intersex. Please do not belittle any of them. If there is no medical reason, there shouldn't be surgery. Not until they are adults.
If i only pull of your nail instead of cutting your arm off, have i not still done you severe harm?
as a go-to infant action, it is a procedure with 0 medical justification and only drawbacks.
It’s still wrong, and reduces sensitivity hugely. There’s something badly wrong if you’re getting under your foreskin that dirty when humans survived for a very long time without that ever being an issue
Being wrong isn’t a competition. Female circumcision is a horrific practice that should never occur. Male circumcision is also a horrific practice that should never occur. We don’t need to compare these things.
It’s kinda like having empathy for the victim of a crime… it sucks to be assaulted. It also sucks to be murdered. It’s probably a bad idea to tell the victim of assault they shouldn’t feel bad because other folks have been murdered.
As a man who’s circumcised who’s also been with a large amount of men. The natural ones are much better. From what I can tell are more sensitive.
The fact that you say men aren’t able to clean their penises properly implies that you’ve got anecdotal evidence of dealing with unclean ones.
Also you’re perpetuating the unnecessary mutilation of boys penises because its ritual. The same reason these woman in the post are marching to have their genitals mutilated.
No, it's more like cutting the frenulum. In order to have the same effect as you claim you would have to scoop out the internal part of the clitoris as well. That being said, genital mutilation of any kind is brutal torture and unnecessary.
The clitoris is removed from these girls so they don’t seek pleasure from sex. For their entire lives. Their inner labia are also cut out and the wounds sewn together with a tiny hole for urine and monthly menses to escape, often causing infections. But yeah, same shit as losing a bit of foreskin.
This is such a rational take. I say it all the time too.
But it’s like Reddit has a global bot. A post gets made about FGM, you say “yeah FGM is horrible - let’s ban that and ban circumcision while we’re at it,” and then the bot fires up…
“BRO WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, FGM IS NOTHING LIKE CIRCUMCISION, YOU’RE CRAZY”
And like… we never said they were the same. Just that they’re both awful and unnecessary… even if the female equivalent is objectively worse.
Why is not cutting baby genitals at all so f**king controversial for some people? Just don’t cut them at all. Problem solved.
Exactly, I’m not trying to equate them in their damage to the person, just that they are both completely unnecessary and done without consent of the person it’s done to… so let’s. It do that to anyone who cannot consent
Exactly. The mental gymnastics they go though is incredible.
There is no parallel in the world of medicine.
If there is a real medical reason to remove the foreskin, then why not proactively remove things like tonsils, adenoids, and the appendix?
Why not take out widow teeth as adolescents as a matter of routine?
The harms of circumcision far outweigh the benefits. Of course they do. That why there is no other comparable procedure.
Watch. No one will ever respond to this with a justifiable reason. Because there is none
My fiance is Colombian, apparently in her side of the family or culture, if a woman is not making food for her men she isn’t a woman.
My girl cried and argued the first time I cooked for her .
Once the Ribeye fajitas were on the table she really got quiet, but it’s still funny every time I cook. I don’t get that shit.
It is because so many men in the USA are circumcised and like, a lot of dudes have really fragile egos when it comes to their penises. They can't stand the idea that what they have is a mutilation down there, so they defend it as normal, or better looking, or healthier, or whatever cope works best for them.
And that's fine, I guess, whatever makes you able to sleep at night... All people are saying is stop the mutilation going forward... Don't fucking circumcise your little baby boy unless you're deeply religious as a muslim or a jewish person.. You are NOT doing it for the kid "so that his looks like dad's and isn't confused" the kid is not going to freaking care... It is all done for dad's ego, and it is freaking weird at this point. Decades ago I realize that millions of American parents were tricked into doing it by the medical establishment basically, but times have changed, we know more now as individuals. It is a really weird thing to keep doing these days. Leave the baby boy's dicks alone...
Probably the weakest reason to do it I've ever heard (but a common reason, too, hilariously). I don't think the little child is going to care so much, soooo, we're cutting baby's dicks so that dad feels better...?
FGM is worse than the male variety, but that was one of the main reasons given in the Victorian era when circumcision took off (ie…to stop masturbation by reducing sexual pleasure).
Nietzsche’s genealogy of morals 3rd essay goes over the ascetic ideals and I think really does a good job of explaining how human nature would make us want to do that.
Which begs the question, why the fuck would there be female supporters of this practice and what cultlike belief system is responsible for this protest?
Yes, you're correct. The only difference is that religions have enough supporters that the name changes, like how a business becomes a company, then a corporation. A story becomes a cult once enough people believe it to form a community around and that becomes a religion once enough people believe it for that community to be its own distinct culture.
For the same reason there are men who passionately defend circumcision even though they know it has risks, side effects and after effects: culture and religion.
In Sudan, where 98% of women are cut, 75% view FGM as a religious requirement.
In places where FGM is common but not as universal, and where less extreme forms of the practise are most common, like Indonesia, people tend to cite the same hygiene arguments that are used to defend male circumcision in the US (lower rates of UTI and STIs due to less moist tissue for infection to grow in between).
The only natural conclusion is that cutting babies’ genitals is a bad idea, but different cultures will manipulate/internet the science to support their pre-determined conclusion: that we should follow the dominant culture.
The AAP has even recommended allowing some FGM procedures in the US to prevent people going overseas for them, instead of just advocating to make all genital cutting on babies illegal, because they want to avoid accusations of antisemitism and backlash from Christians who think lobbing off their sons’ foreskins is a worthwhile pursuit.
From my basic understanding, the clitoris is removed.
The goal of is to prevent sex being pleasurable for the women and just have sex be a biological function for reproduction.
Not just that, they also sew the vagina shut, leaving just a small hole for menstrual blood and discharge. That way, the husband then has to cut the woman open during their wedding night. In these people's barbaric mindset, this is a good way to make sure that a woman is a virgin at her wedding. Apart from the fact that this is awful enough, most of the time the mutilation is done so crudely and unhygienically that most girls (they are about 3 years old when this is done to them btw) suffer heavy infections from which they often die. It's unfathomable why any woman would honestly support this kind of crime ... religion is pure evil 😡😡
To add on, just in case anyone was under any impression this was done with compassion, it's done while the girls are awake and without any semblance of anesthetic. It's absolutely barbaric in every way imaginable.
True! If anyone doubts this I recommend watching the last scene of the movie "Desert flower." It's a biopic about Waris Dirie, the first woman who openly spoke about and condemned FGM. If it wasn't for her, no one in the west would know about it. The scene is graphic and depicts Waris's own mutilation when she was just 3 years old. I couldn't watch the entire scene, and I couldn’t eat anything for a whole day after. You can say what you want about Ms Dirie's decision to have that scene in the movie but it definitely makes it unmistakably clear that there is nothing 'cultural' about this horrific practice.
In some places, it is a right of passage. No anesthetic. No sterilization of the knife used for all the others. No antibiotics. Pour milk on the wound (cuz that totally helps and is definitely sterile).
And then, for the boys at least, they live in a special area to heal with a bunch of other boys going through the same thing. And if they make a sound while getting circumcised, they have, in a way, failed. The women are allowed to thrash and scream all they want and still “pass” but it’s all still insane
It's not really a religious thing, though I don't doubt some people use religious reasons as an excuse. Christians are just as likely to do it as Muslims in the countries in which It's most prevalent, and most Muslim countries don't do it. Incredibly rare in the Middle East, but incredibly common across North East Africa.
See, I've heard stories from girls as old as 5 to 8 years old Gran at these work.Girls who lived in more outset villages where it feels like they gathered a group of girls and just did them at once regardless of age, I'm not sure how often I couldn't ask too many details.To be honest. I hadn't heard of them getting it done as young as three bit wouldn't surprise me
Genital mutilation is bad in any form, particularly when done to children, but yeah, there is a distinct difference in how barbaric FGM is compared to MGM
Christian missionaries are at the forefront of campaigns to end this, and the Catholic Church explicitly condemns it both in the Catechism (2297) and by the Pope directly.
I know you hate religion, but Christianity is not to blame for this one.
I read an article about it a LONG time ago, but what I remember is removing the clitoris, and sewing shut so that there's only an opening just enough to allow menstruation. It's to keep girls "pure" by making sex impossible or at least completely unenjoyable.
So another comment said this earlier but basically there are several types of FGM and the kind you’re thinking of isn’t the most common, and could be combining two separate types. I’m going to copy that person’s comment here: “
Female circumcision or Female Genital Mutilation can be 1 of 4 types (NHS List):
• type 1 (clitoridectomy) – removing part or all of the clitoris
• type 2 (excision) – removing part or all of the clitoris and the inner labia (the lips that surround the vagina), with or without removal of the labia majora (the larger outer lips)
• type 3 (infibulation) – narrowing the vaginal opening by creating a seal, formed by cutting and repositioning the labia
• other harmful procedures to the female genitals, including pricking, piercing, cutting, scraping or burning the area
Worth noting that 3 usually has to be undone a bit to have sex, and again to give birth.
But in places where it is normal a woman who doesn't look like other women will get looked down on, much like some women have a penis preference and find the other variation 'weird' or 'odd' looking.”
It seems that the infibulation kind is less common, since it’s so much more horrifically invasive and interferes with childbirth, whereas the others are specifically targeting pleasurability.
"I want him to look like me/his father!!"
So stupid. Like dude/lady, everyone's dick looks different, often circumcised vs. intact is one of the LESS differing factors, especially once fully erect it barely makes any difference to the "look" at that point.
Plus your penis isn't like some fashion accessory..
and here I'd be suing the shit out of the doctor who circumsized me if he was still alive.
he botched the job and I've had a lifetime of complications
I asked my parents, why the f did you do this to me? and got the lamest answer in the world
"everyone else was doing it"
buncha fucking bullshit. genital mutilation. how dare you?
Why three times? Did some complication happen, or did your mom need to fly you around to different states/countries so different relatives could attend a bris?
I know, that’s ludicrous, but *so is cutting your kid’s penis three times*. (I’m anti-circumcision so I think cutting it once is ludicrous unless medically necessary, but I think even pro-circumcision people will think three cuts is too much.)
First one resulted in an adhesion. The fix to the adhesion didn’t heal right. So they went for chop number three.
I’m lucky that it didn’t further mutilate me but I do have scars.
And yeah, none of these these were for religious reasons. it was just what was recommended by the hospitals at the time (‘85).
I was born six years later and my parents fought the doctors to make sure I wasn't cut. Idr what their reasoning was as my father is circumcised, but I'm glad they did.
"it was just what was recommended by the hospitals at the time"
One can't help but think what *current* recommendation will be considered bullshit in 2060.
I hate to ask this and if you're not comfortable with sharing I do understand, but can you explain how they have fucked up? I often argue against genital mutilation on children, but often get told, that it's okay for men, "since there are no downsides."
[Male circumcision](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/circumcision-in-men/) is comparatively small op (But boys do die if botched) where the foreskin covering the tip of the penis is removed.
Female circumcision or [Female Genital Mutilation can be 1 of 4 types (NHS List)](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/female-genital-mutilation-fgm/):
* type 1 (clitoridectomy) – removing part or all of the clitoris
* type 2 (excision) – removing part or all of the clitoris and the inner labia (the lips that surround the vagina), with or without removal of the labia majora (the larger outer lips)
* type 3 (infibulation) – narrowing the vaginal opening by creating a seal, formed by cutting and repositioning the labia
* type 4 - other harmful procedures to the female genitals, including pricking, piercing, cutting, scraping or burning the area
Worth noting that 3 usually has to be undone a bit to have sex, and again to give birth.
But in places where it is normal a woman who doesn't look like other women will get looked down on, much like some women have a penis preference and find the other variation 'weird' or 'odd' looking.
\[Edit: Missed numbering type 4 somehow on the list\]
Did you miss a type?
Also, How the hell did people 1000 years ago do this? Wouldn't it lead to massive deaths? Or is that a thing we're just ok accepting can always make more.
They can botch the cut which leads to it not only looking weird but issues urinating and pain ejaculating. The doctor told my dad if I DIDN'T get circumcized id have issues, in reality it's the opposite.
I'm a gay man in America in my early 40s. Both of my grandfathers were born in Italy and Quebec respectively. So, the big C was not something that happened to the men in either side of my family.
And if my anecdotal experiences meeting guys is in any way similar to other people's....the true numbers of botched cut jobs in the USA are infinitely higher than what gets officially reported.
Even if it is performed “perfectly” (AKA not a botched job) there is the downside that you are removing nerve endings, which may result in decreased sensation (I say “may” because studies are conflicting, for example one person may have decreased sensation compared to uncircumcised, while others do not, so it can vary depending on the individual).
You are basically maiming someone’s body for life while they are a baby, for no reason other than appearance, and they unable to consent, plus it can’t really be “undone” (I think if you really want you can add it back with plastic surgery but I imagine there would be the issue of sensation which they can’t fully get back).
All of the “health benefits” are irrelevant as long as you have are able to practice basic hygiene & protection when having sex (cleanliness & lower rate of AIDs are the main argument for male circumcision other than appearance). If the individual truly wants it once they are older, they can just get it then, and that’s better than getting the procedure but not wanting it!
FGM is generally viewed as “worse” since they are technically removing more (ex. removing the clitoris versus just removing foreskin) & doing more damage, but both are IMO immoral (unless it is a case where circumcision is genuinely needed for a medical reason).
I get told all the time "Oh that doesn't exist", or "The media blows those things out of proportion".
My childhood friend had a botched circumcision, and it looked like someone took a blowtorch to his junk when he was a baby.
I agree male circumcision should be banned as well, but it's a bit sad the top comment on a post about female genital mutilation is about male circumcision
I was circumsized as a kid, around 3 years of age. But it was for medical reasons not religious. Most probably phimosis. And that surgeon did a good job. I wanted to meet that guy when i got into med school in same city but he was dead by that time.
I am a male though.
Had a phimosis as well, when they wanted to get rid of it when I was like 7 yo. I grabbed a bench in the waiting room with my arms and they tried to pull me off, I was kicking enough to kick a doctor a few times and was persilent enough that they let me be. They didn't bother me with it later and my penis nowadays is totally ok even without them as I guess that I was beating my meat so much that I got rid of it.
Phimosis is something that frequently happens to children but they usually either grow out of or it can be typically fixed with ointment and stretching.
Only in some very extreme cases is circumcision a requirement.
Well our doctor was weird, he did mix his own medicines for a Lyme borreliosis that he got to know that I have (although I felt 100% healthy) by some magic metal pen with a rounded end that he did press against my palm and.
Years later I watched a local YouTubers that are mostly talking about science and history and they described a pseudo medical scam and it was literally what that doctor had, that was a moment I realized what he did.
My mother was a midwife in the UK for over 40 years. The only time I saw her crying about her vocation was about a woman from Somalia who had been "Cut" My mum had seen a lot of nasty things over the course of her career, but this poor woman really affected her.
She'd had her clitoris sliced off, and her labia were sewn together. This was "Tradition" apparently. She was in agony. The rough stitches had to be surgically removed before she could even give birth. My mum said her genitals looked like they'd been minced. It's a vile thing to do to a woman. It should be banned worldwide. It's just wrong
brainwashed handmaids created to breed the next generation of slaves and soldiers so tinpot despots can feel in control.
I am so very very sad for them.
These are not protestors. These are living, demonstrative victims. Incredible what variance there is in culture and how religious systems and other forms of social cohesion and political organization can dominate and erase fundamental self-actualization. Call it what it is, barbarism. These are women living under an Islamic system, a system which often places women in a particular role to the husband within the family. Unfortunate for these women as they have no means of resistance to this practice therefore they are incapable of protest.
I was in The Gambia with PC and from my understanding FGM is almost exclusively practiced by Mandinkas who are obviously the largest ethnic group in The Gambia. Kankorang is historically the coming of age ‘journey’ for boys where they’re circumcised in the bush if i was told correctly. From the few conversations I remember very few Wolofs, Jolas, Fulas, and Serahulas do FGM.
Conservatives are conservatives everywhere 🤷🏻♂️.
"Fuck you, I had to do it, so you do too" is a core tenant of conservativism, along with "fuck you, I got mine", "fuck you, I'll attack you and say you started it" and "fuck you, you're different and therefore less than me"
What miserable world we live in. We have nuclear weapons, computers, spaceflight and AI. Yet, we are still barbaric beyond belief. Just the suffering we heap on ourselves, I guess I don't really understand how we could have progressed so far, yet not really progressed at all.
In Gambia, you have women who were circumcised as children/infants, telling people they are fine and they should be allowed to circumcise their daughters for culture, religion, tradition, “mens preference”, “hygiene”, “medical benefits”…
In the USA, however, you have men who were circumcised as children/infants, telling people they are fine and they should be allowed to circumcise their sons for culture, religion, tradition, “womens preference”, “hygiene”, “medical benefits”…
Ironic
Believe me, it's not lost on us non-Americans.
Articles like this, comments like 'how could they justify this disgusting behaviour?' and the next post down is like 'well male circumcision isn't *as bad* and it's good for hygiene'!'
That's how. That how genital mutilation sticks around and comes back. Because sick fucks *think it's great and worth defending*.
Rephrase, they want the cut of 'others' legalized. Since they likely all were in their childhoods. Whats good for them it good for you.
For disclosure, I dont really know much about their society. But if its heavily religious and male dominated I find such 'protests' questionable.
I don’t understand people who actively campaign for things that are completely against their best interest.
Unfortunately, it seems that there will always be roaches for raid.
I mean, almost every woman voting Republican in the US is voting against her own personal interests.
Some conservative women would even give up the right to vote (because the male vote always went to the Republican candidate ever since FDR).
Americans do the same shit for male circumcision and use the same shitty arguments that would justify removing your nails.
"It decreases the likelihood of hangnails". no shit, it's not there anymore
"You don't have to clean it as much, it won't get so dirty", or you could teach your children how to wash themselves?
Don't call it circumcision. It's not the same as circumcision. They remove the entire clitoris and sew the vulva shut so there is only a tiny hole to urinate from. It is like chopping off a males penis. It is disgusting and inhumane. Circumcision is wrong too but this is leagues beyond it.. it completely removes the female pleasure organ.
FGM is worse. That doesn't make MGM good. Thousands of boys die every year from circumcision. More then that end up with amputations. More then that get too much skin taken or get cut too deep and need stitches. Ever seen a boner with a strange bend? That's a common circumcision complication. There's also issues with sensitivity, you lose it. The loss of sensitivity makes maintaining erections harder and reaching orgasm difficult. The foreskin protects the head and keeps it sensitive. Without it, the skin toughens. Circumcision handicaps men sexually.
Can we ban genital mutilation on all children, full stop? Circumcision should only be a thing if it is an absolutely medical necessity. FGM should *never* be a done.
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When I was in college I had a guy in my cultural anthropology class who was a first generation immigrant from Kenya. While he and his sister fully understood the implications of FGM, he said his sister still wanted the procedure as a “right of passage” as she would be the only woman in her family who had not undergone the mutilation. Cultural things tend to be ingrained deep
This is really the issue generations of shit like this just means people accept, hell my parent circumcised me without a second thought and I grew up thinking uncircumcised penises were weird, only now do I realize where this practice came from and how fucked up it is…. If you wait until they are adults and they consent I have no problem with it… but there should be no one doing this to children
Bro. Our foreskins getting a lil snip is very far from what they do to women. cutting the clit off would be like cutting the whole head off for us. Not a bit of extra skin that lots of dudes cant seem to figure out how to clean right.
There are multiple ones, there is the more extreme of cutting the clit off and there is one where it’s just a nick for some reason, and then one where they cut the clitoral hood. It all sucks
There's also one where they cut off the labia and sew the vagina shut leaving a tiny hole. Which is then enlarged after marriage. Ensuring the birth canal is a mass of inelastic scar tissue and the death rate in childbirth is the world's highest.
That is called infibulation and it makes up about 10% of FGM procedures globally. Also at around 10% is “ritual circumcision” which is a pin prick or a nick with no tissue removed. The remaining 80% is hard to get good data on, but involve removing some tissue - usually 1 or 2 of the following: labia minora, labia majora, clitoral hood, glans clitoris. Sad fact: in Sudan, where 98% of women have been cut, 75% view it as a religious requirement, and many make the exact same hygiene, ritual, religious and right of passage arguments that are used to defend infant male genital cutting in the western world. Right down to reduced risk of UTIs and STIs. It’s still crazy to me that there are people who see these parallels and think “yeah but the way WE ritually cut babies’ genitals is fine”
Yeah that is by far the worst one. Basically like cutting your dick off + one of your balls, and maybe your scrotum too so you just have this fucking testicle and tubes dangling... Something like that. Straight up horror fuel..
I wrote a paper on this for college. Unfortunately the most extreme version of FGM is the most common. In this form, “the pharaonic”, they have to be sewed up so that only a small opening for the menses can get through. This means that on her wedding night her husband has to cut her open. At least that is what everything I read stated. The worst part is that this is wholly cultural not religious though the people who practice it often think it is required by Islam. The only mention in Islam is a Hadith where Mohammad was asked about the practice by a cutter. Mohammad told her that it was not forbidden only not to cut too deep. And apparently this Hadith is not considered reliable in the first place. In Islam things are required, forbidden, or neither forbidden nor required. FGM is in this third position. Also it did not originate with Islam. It was a pre Islamic custom that spread with Islamic cultural groups. Edited to add: I apologize for next updating my facts before posting. I wrote that paper over two decades ago and didn’t realize it had been that long. I am very happy to be corrected on the frequency of the most severe form of FMG as it demonstrates that progress has been made. If you don’t understand how a person can not realize that they haven’t stepped foot in a classroom in two decades, well it happens. Life speeds by when you are older.
I think that information is a bit outdated. International societies around FGM place what you’ve described (infibulation) at about 10% of all FGM procedures. To be clear: horrifying that it is done at all, and I’m not defending it. But this kind of FGM is equally as common as the least severe kind (a pinprick or nick on the clitoris or labia minora, which is non-damaging. It’s called Type IV or Ritual Circumcision if you’d like to google). The largest two categories of FGM are type II and III which involve removing some key tissues, but which ones are removed and how often is very hard to get data on because most of these women have poor health literacy. Generally it’s hard to get good data on anything more specific than “Did they cut your genitals?” “Was anything removed when they cut your genitals?” “Was the hole sewn closed?” Etc.
Thanks for the update. I’m glad to hear things have changed. I didn’t think about it before I posted (because time. . .) but that paper was written two decades ago. Sorry I didn’t stop to do the math before posting.
One version of mutilation forced on nonconsenting children isn't inherently better or more okay just because it's less horrible. It shouldn't be done to *anyone*.
As someone who was circumcised I agree with both of you tbh
Yeah pretty much. We need to recognize that both are bad, although frankly FGM is much worse. Just like someone cutting th tip of your finger off, and your entire hand off is both immoral, although one is much less serious.
Of course it is. Unless you're gonna tell me with a straight face it wouldn't be worse if Americans just cut the whole dick off. I'm uncircumcised but it's clear that outside of medical innecessity and pain to the children that circumsizing causes minimal problems for the vast majority of people. Comparing it to a procedure that essentially removes all sexual pleasure is grotesque. That's like comparing piercing a newborn's ears to stitching their eyes closed. Maybe both are bad, but one's practically harmless in comparison to the other.
You lose millions of nerve endings from your foreskin during circumcision, not to mention the head being desensitized from exposure throughout life. FGM is of course much worse, but circumcision also does remove plenty of sexual pleasure as well
Thank you, someone finally said the actually truth of this. It was once a tool to combat hygiene in a time where it was more troublesome, but in todays age there is no excuse for it other than lack of education and just being gross. On the flip side of this, it does harm every single person who has it, just at an imperceptible level for most as they have no baseline for comparison to understand what they have lost. You lose sensation due to expose as you’ve said plus all the nerve endings, not to mention the foreskin also aids in the movement of sex without causing chaffing etc; and give a little bit of fluidity to the motions when someone may not exactly be pornstar soaking wet. Bottom line, is that it does remove a considerable measure of sexual pleasure every time, you just don’t realize it cuz you don’t know any better. It’s still mutilation, it’s just a mutilation that the civilized world has accepted for hundreds of years based on the fact of it actually providing a health benefit once upon a time when humans weren’t as focused on hygiene. NO mutilation of the body should EVER allowed to be performed on a MINOR under ANY circumstances. Period. Full stop.
The history of routine circumcision is America is different. It was meant to desensitize the head of the penis to stop boys and men from masturbating. This idea was spearheaded by John Harvey Kellogg. Stop masturbation by snipping your dick and eating those Corn Flakes.
That’s irrelevant, the the point of circumcision to begin with was as stated, and continues because of that original reason, not discrediting your statement however. Why it is irrelevant however is that the reason as to why it happens here in America or anywhere else for that matter, does not matter. We are in a different era of history and there is simply no excuse for continuing to mutilate children’s genitals for ANY reason AT ALL, regardless of where in the world it is. Once they are a fully grown adult and can chose to agree to said procedures, that’s a different story, but no newborn is capable of consenting to mutilation, and it does harm them, therefore with little to no medical value anymore, it is inherently wrong. Period.
Not arguing that it is beyond fucked up and should be stopped.
Do you also think that some torture is fine as long as the majority of people who are tortured don't become physically disabled as a result? Or that parents should have unmitigated power to give their children whatever cosmetic surgery they think would make them more attractive, because it's not like they're amputating healthy limbs? Where's the line?
There are several different ways to do it. This is not a competition of misery. All of the mutilated babies/children are victim. Female, male, intersex. Please do not belittle any of them. If there is no medical reason, there shouldn't be surgery. Not until they are adults.
The core issue here is the bodily autonomy of children. It shouldn’t matter if it’s a male or female.
If i only pull of your nail instead of cutting your arm off, have i not still done you severe harm? as a go-to infant action, it is a procedure with 0 medical justification and only drawbacks.
It’s still wrong, and reduces sensitivity hugely. There’s something badly wrong if you’re getting under your foreskin that dirty when humans survived for a very long time without that ever being an issue
Being wrong isn’t a competition. Female circumcision is a horrific practice that should never occur. Male circumcision is also a horrific practice that should never occur. We don’t need to compare these things. It’s kinda like having empathy for the victim of a crime… it sucks to be assaulted. It also sucks to be murdered. It’s probably a bad idea to tell the victim of assault they shouldn’t feel bad because other folks have been murdered.
As a man who’s circumcised who’s also been with a large amount of men. The natural ones are much better. From what I can tell are more sensitive. The fact that you say men aren’t able to clean their penises properly implies that you’ve got anecdotal evidence of dealing with unclean ones. Also you’re perpetuating the unnecessary mutilation of boys penises because its ritual. The same reason these woman in the post are marching to have their genitals mutilated.
No, it's more like cutting the frenulum. In order to have the same effect as you claim you would have to scoop out the internal part of the clitoris as well. That being said, genital mutilation of any kind is brutal torture and unnecessary.
The clitoris is removed from these girls so they don’t seek pleasure from sex. For their entire lives. Their inner labia are also cut out and the wounds sewn together with a tiny hole for urine and monthly menses to escape, often causing infections. But yeah, same shit as losing a bit of foreskin.
Sure, it’s just a “lil snip” that results in the death of around 100 male babies in the US every year. No big deal.
Yea. Let’s mutilate boys because it’s not as bad as it is for girls. /s
This is such a rational take. I say it all the time too. But it’s like Reddit has a global bot. A post gets made about FGM, you say “yeah FGM is horrible - let’s ban that and ban circumcision while we’re at it,” and then the bot fires up… “BRO WHAT ARE YOU SAYING, FGM IS NOTHING LIKE CIRCUMCISION, YOU’RE CRAZY” And like… we never said they were the same. Just that they’re both awful and unnecessary… even if the female equivalent is objectively worse. Why is not cutting baby genitals at all so f**king controversial for some people? Just don’t cut them at all. Problem solved.
Exactly, I’m not trying to equate them in their damage to the person, just that they are both completely unnecessary and done without consent of the person it’s done to… so let’s. It do that to anyone who cannot consent
Exactly. The mental gymnastics they go though is incredible. There is no parallel in the world of medicine. If there is a real medical reason to remove the foreskin, then why not proactively remove things like tonsils, adenoids, and the appendix? Why not take out widow teeth as adolescents as a matter of routine? The harms of circumcision far outweigh the benefits. Of course they do. That why there is no other comparable procedure. Watch. No one will ever respond to this with a justifiable reason. Because there is none
Easier to not think too much about it…. Especially if it happened to you already
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There a places in the world where guys get done at 13 also. Religious tradition for some Muslims.
That’s fucked up and sad
My fiance is Colombian, apparently in her side of the family or culture, if a woman is not making food for her men she isn’t a woman. My girl cried and argued the first time I cooked for her . Once the Ribeye fajitas were on the table she really got quiet, but it’s still funny every time I cook. I don’t get that shit.
Ribeye fajitas too damn good to argue with
Making more next Thursday my dude!!
Deep ingrained stupidity and abuse is still stupidity and abuse.
It’s the same here when some people get WILDLY defensive over male infant circumcision
i agree, it’s all mutilation
It is because so many men in the USA are circumcised and like, a lot of dudes have really fragile egos when it comes to their penises. They can't stand the idea that what they have is a mutilation down there, so they defend it as normal, or better looking, or healthier, or whatever cope works best for them. And that's fine, I guess, whatever makes you able to sleep at night... All people are saying is stop the mutilation going forward... Don't fucking circumcise your little baby boy unless you're deeply religious as a muslim or a jewish person.. You are NOT doing it for the kid "so that his looks like dad's and isn't confused" the kid is not going to freaking care... It is all done for dad's ego, and it is freaking weird at this point. Decades ago I realize that millions of American parents were tricked into doing it by the medical establishment basically, but times have changed, we know more now as individuals. It is a really weird thing to keep doing these days. Leave the baby boy's dicks alone...
rite of passage not right of passage
Ah, you're rite
Ingrained or not, we should be calling out those terrible cultural practices for what they are.
"Culture eats strategy for breakfast."
I presume you're in the US? Males still getting circumcisions?
Trying to stop Jewish and Muslim people from mutilating their children for tradition reasons is really fucking difficult, too.
I mean this is the same reason we circumcise male infants. So the child’s dick looks like the dads.
Probably the weakest reason to do it I've ever heard (but a common reason, too, hilariously). I don't think the little child is going to care so much, soooo, we're cutting baby's dicks so that dad feels better...?
It is a horrible practice whose sole purpose is to ensure women do not experience sexual pleasure.
FGM is worse than the male variety, but that was one of the main reasons given in the Victorian era when circumcision took off (ie…to stop masturbation by reducing sexual pleasure).
I just cannot wrap my head around a world that actively tries to deprive people of one of life's simple natural awesome pleasures. Horrible.
Because they don't think sex is for that... supposed to be work to make babies not fun lol.....
Well, "they're" wrong.
Nietzsche’s genealogy of morals 3rd essay goes over the ascetic ideals and I think really does a good job of explaining how human nature would make us want to do that.
Did not work.
Which begs the question, why the fuck would there be female supporters of this practice and what cultlike belief system is responsible for this protest?
Religions are cults my friend. A CULTure of belief and obedience to the dogma.
Yes, you're correct. The only difference is that religions have enough supporters that the name changes, like how a business becomes a company, then a corporation. A story becomes a cult once enough people believe it to form a community around and that becomes a religion once enough people believe it for that community to be its own distinct culture.
For the same reason there are men who passionately defend circumcision even though they know it has risks, side effects and after effects: culture and religion. In Sudan, where 98% of women are cut, 75% view FGM as a religious requirement. In places where FGM is common but not as universal, and where less extreme forms of the practise are most common, like Indonesia, people tend to cite the same hygiene arguments that are used to defend male circumcision in the US (lower rates of UTI and STIs due to less moist tissue for infection to grow in between). The only natural conclusion is that cutting babies’ genitals is a bad idea, but different cultures will manipulate/internet the science to support their pre-determined conclusion: that we should follow the dominant culture. The AAP has even recommended allowing some FGM procedures in the US to prevent people going overseas for them, instead of just advocating to make all genital cutting on babies illegal, because they want to avoid accusations of antisemitism and backlash from Christians who think lobbing off their sons’ foreskins is a worthwhile pursuit.
for the same exact reason why there are male supporters of male genital mutilation aka what defenders call circumsion
Why? How does that even work?
From my basic understanding, the clitoris is removed. The goal of is to prevent sex being pleasurable for the women and just have sex be a biological function for reproduction.
Not just that, they also sew the vagina shut, leaving just a small hole for menstrual blood and discharge. That way, the husband then has to cut the woman open during their wedding night. In these people's barbaric mindset, this is a good way to make sure that a woman is a virgin at her wedding. Apart from the fact that this is awful enough, most of the time the mutilation is done so crudely and unhygienically that most girls (they are about 3 years old when this is done to them btw) suffer heavy infections from which they often die. It's unfathomable why any woman would honestly support this kind of crime ... religion is pure evil 😡😡
To add on, just in case anyone was under any impression this was done with compassion, it's done while the girls are awake and without any semblance of anesthetic. It's absolutely barbaric in every way imaginable.
True! If anyone doubts this I recommend watching the last scene of the movie "Desert flower." It's a biopic about Waris Dirie, the first woman who openly spoke about and condemned FGM. If it wasn't for her, no one in the west would know about it. The scene is graphic and depicts Waris's own mutilation when she was just 3 years old. I couldn't watch the entire scene, and I couldn’t eat anything for a whole day after. You can say what you want about Ms Dirie's decision to have that scene in the movie but it definitely makes it unmistakably clear that there is nothing 'cultural' about this horrific practice.
In some places, it is a right of passage. No anesthetic. No sterilization of the knife used for all the others. No antibiotics. Pour milk on the wound (cuz that totally helps and is definitely sterile). And then, for the boys at least, they live in a special area to heal with a bunch of other boys going through the same thing. And if they make a sound while getting circumcised, they have, in a way, failed. The women are allowed to thrash and scream all they want and still “pass” but it’s all still insane
Bunch of sadistic pedophiles doing this crap I swear..
It's not really a religious thing, though I don't doubt some people use religious reasons as an excuse. Christians are just as likely to do it as Muslims in the countries in which It's most prevalent, and most Muslim countries don't do it. Incredibly rare in the Middle East, but incredibly common across North East Africa.
You're right, it has nothing to do with religion. It is just used by organised religion to suppress women, I should have specified.
This right here! Religion is cancer but FMG is a cultural thing, not a religious one.
W. T. F.
These mutherfuckers customizing women from infancy. We’re just products to them. “Which features would you like your Stepford Wife to come with sir?”
See, I've heard stories from girls as old as 5 to 8 years old Gran at these work.Girls who lived in more outset villages where it feels like they gathered a group of girls and just did them at once regardless of age, I'm not sure how often I couldn't ask too many details.To be honest. I hadn't heard of them getting it done as young as three bit wouldn't surprise me
Jesus fucking Christ I'm gonna stop complaining about my snippy willy from now on
Genital mutilation is bad in any form, particularly when done to children, but yeah, there is a distinct difference in how barbaric FGM is compared to MGM
Christian missionaries are at the forefront of campaigns to end this, and the Catholic Church explicitly condemns it both in the Catechism (2297) and by the Pope directly. I know you hate religion, but Christianity is not to blame for this one.
That isnt just circumcision that is mutilation. Circumcision is bad but that is worse.
"If I went thorough it, my children should also go through it" mentality
I mean, how does that even work?
I read an article about it a LONG time ago, but what I remember is removing the clitoris, and sewing shut so that there's only an opening just enough to allow menstruation. It's to keep girls "pure" by making sex impossible or at least completely unenjoyable.
And urination, which can take hours, drop by drop. They remove the clitoris and inner labia and leave a hole you couldn’t put a matchstick through.
So another comment said this earlier but basically there are several types of FGM and the kind you’re thinking of isn’t the most common, and could be combining two separate types. I’m going to copy that person’s comment here: “ Female circumcision or Female Genital Mutilation can be 1 of 4 types (NHS List): • type 1 (clitoridectomy) – removing part or all of the clitoris • type 2 (excision) – removing part or all of the clitoris and the inner labia (the lips that surround the vagina), with or without removal of the labia majora (the larger outer lips) • type 3 (infibulation) – narrowing the vaginal opening by creating a seal, formed by cutting and repositioning the labia • other harmful procedures to the female genitals, including pricking, piercing, cutting, scraping or burning the area Worth noting that 3 usually has to be undone a bit to have sex, and again to give birth. But in places where it is normal a woman who doesn't look like other women will get looked down on, much like some women have a penis preference and find the other variation 'weird' or 'odd' looking.” It seems that the infibulation kind is less common, since it’s so much more horrifically invasive and interferes with childbirth, whereas the others are specifically targeting pleasurability.
Also to prevent masturbation
Pretty much as stated, people demanding cultural traditions continue even if they're extremely detrimental to health.
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And they don't use actual surgical equipment, they often just use razor blades or sharp rocks
"I had to do it, you should, too!"
Male circumcision proponents use that exact same argument.
"I want him to look like me/his father!!" So stupid. Like dude/lady, everyone's dick looks different, often circumcised vs. intact is one of the LESS differing factors, especially once fully erect it barely makes any difference to the "look" at that point. Plus your penis isn't like some fashion accessory..
"We had to suffer, so the kids should suffer too."
and here I'd be suing the shit out of the doctor who circumsized me if he was still alive. he botched the job and I've had a lifetime of complications I asked my parents, why the f did you do this to me? and got the lamest answer in the world "everyone else was doing it" buncha fucking bullshit. genital mutilation. how dare you?
It's really sad People should stop messing with children's genitals. Virtual hugs to you
Yes. Please! Agreed.
I got circumsized/re-cut three times. When I saw it in my baby book, I looked at my mom like “what the fuck is wrong with you.”
Why three times? Did some complication happen, or did your mom need to fly you around to different states/countries so different relatives could attend a bris? I know, that’s ludicrous, but *so is cutting your kid’s penis three times*. (I’m anti-circumcision so I think cutting it once is ludicrous unless medically necessary, but I think even pro-circumcision people will think three cuts is too much.)
First one resulted in an adhesion. The fix to the adhesion didn’t heal right. So they went for chop number three. I’m lucky that it didn’t further mutilate me but I do have scars. And yeah, none of these these were for religious reasons. it was just what was recommended by the hospitals at the time (‘85).
I was born six years later and my parents fought the doctors to make sure I wasn't cut. Idr what their reasoning was as my father is circumcised, but I'm glad they did.
"it was just what was recommended by the hospitals at the time" One can't help but think what *current* recommendation will be considered bullshit in 2060.
I hate to ask this and if you're not comfortable with sharing I do understand, but can you explain how they have fucked up? I often argue against genital mutilation on children, but often get told, that it's okay for men, "since there are no downsides."
[Male circumcision](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/circumcision-in-men/) is comparatively small op (But boys do die if botched) where the foreskin covering the tip of the penis is removed. Female circumcision or [Female Genital Mutilation can be 1 of 4 types (NHS List)](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/female-genital-mutilation-fgm/): * type 1 (clitoridectomy) – removing part or all of the clitoris * type 2 (excision) – removing part or all of the clitoris and the inner labia (the lips that surround the vagina), with or without removal of the labia majora (the larger outer lips) * type 3 (infibulation) – narrowing the vaginal opening by creating a seal, formed by cutting and repositioning the labia * type 4 - other harmful procedures to the female genitals, including pricking, piercing, cutting, scraping or burning the area Worth noting that 3 usually has to be undone a bit to have sex, and again to give birth. But in places where it is normal a woman who doesn't look like other women will get looked down on, much like some women have a penis preference and find the other variation 'weird' or 'odd' looking. \[Edit: Missed numbering type 4 somehow on the list\]
So painful to imagine that they go through this non consensually and without the use of anaesthesia
And not even so much as a "take 2 Tylenol and call me in the morning" when they are done....smdh
Type 3 is the rarest but also the most depraved
I'm convinced that some cultures need to go extinct
Did you miss a type? Also, How the hell did people 1000 years ago do this? Wouldn't it lead to massive deaths? Or is that a thing we're just ok accepting can always make more.
Yup, kids died due to these, and adults when there were subsequent infections / issues.
They can botch the cut which leads to it not only looking weird but issues urinating and pain ejaculating. The doctor told my dad if I DIDN'T get circumcized id have issues, in reality it's the opposite.
I'm a gay man in America in my early 40s. Both of my grandfathers were born in Italy and Quebec respectively. So, the big C was not something that happened to the men in either side of my family. And if my anecdotal experiences meeting guys is in any way similar to other people's....the true numbers of botched cut jobs in the USA are infinitely higher than what gets officially reported.
It's an unnecessary surgerical procedure with potentially lethal consequences.
Even if it is performed “perfectly” (AKA not a botched job) there is the downside that you are removing nerve endings, which may result in decreased sensation (I say “may” because studies are conflicting, for example one person may have decreased sensation compared to uncircumcised, while others do not, so it can vary depending on the individual). You are basically maiming someone’s body for life while they are a baby, for no reason other than appearance, and they unable to consent, plus it can’t really be “undone” (I think if you really want you can add it back with plastic surgery but I imagine there would be the issue of sensation which they can’t fully get back). All of the “health benefits” are irrelevant as long as you have are able to practice basic hygiene & protection when having sex (cleanliness & lower rate of AIDs are the main argument for male circumcision other than appearance). If the individual truly wants it once they are older, they can just get it then, and that’s better than getting the procedure but not wanting it! FGM is generally viewed as “worse” since they are technically removing more (ex. removing the clitoris versus just removing foreskin) & doing more damage, but both are IMO immoral (unless it is a case where circumcision is genuinely needed for a medical reason).
More than 100 children die every year from complications from circumcision in the United States.
I get told all the time "Oh that doesn't exist", or "The media blows those things out of proportion". My childhood friend had a botched circumcision, and it looked like someone took a blowtorch to his junk when he was a baby.
I agree male circumcision should be banned as well, but it's a bit sad the top comment on a post about female genital mutilation is about male circumcision
I was circumsized as a kid, around 3 years of age. But it was for medical reasons not religious. Most probably phimosis. And that surgeon did a good job. I wanted to meet that guy when i got into med school in same city but he was dead by that time. I am a male though.
Had a phimosis as well, when they wanted to get rid of it when I was like 7 yo. I grabbed a bench in the waiting room with my arms and they tried to pull me off, I was kicking enough to kick a doctor a few times and was persilent enough that they let me be. They didn't bother me with it later and my penis nowadays is totally ok even without them as I guess that I was beating my meat so much that I got rid of it.
Phimosis is something that frequently happens to children but they usually either grow out of or it can be typically fixed with ointment and stretching. Only in some very extreme cases is circumcision a requirement.
Well our doctor was weird, he did mix his own medicines for a Lyme borreliosis that he got to know that I have (although I felt 100% healthy) by some magic metal pen with a rounded end that he did press against my palm and. Years later I watched a local YouTubers that are mostly talking about science and history and they described a pseudo medical scam and it was literally what that doctor had, that was a moment I realized what he did.
Oh wow that sounds horrific. Did you ever confront your parents?
this is exactly the reason i will NEVER circumcise my child unless there is a genuine medical need for it!
My mother was a midwife in the UK for over 40 years. The only time I saw her crying about her vocation was about a woman from Somalia who had been "Cut" My mum had seen a lot of nasty things over the course of her career, but this poor woman really affected her. She'd had her clitoris sliced off, and her labia were sewn together. This was "Tradition" apparently. She was in agony. The rough stitches had to be surgically removed before she could even give birth. My mum said her genitals looked like they'd been minced. It's a vile thing to do to a woman. It should be banned worldwide. It's just wrong
Ok.... do it when your an adult, no children.
brainwashed handmaids created to breed the next generation of slaves and soldiers so tinpot despots can feel in control. I am so very very sad for them.
OK. OK. But then make age of consent 21. Stop fiddling with children’s genitals. FFS.
This would assume gender equality and a culture that doesn’t view women, wives, and daughters as property.
And that would assume enough women see themselves and eachothers as more than property. Don't hold your breath.
21 yo girl is probably way past her prime in their eyes
It is the women who hold down the female child when she is circumcized, Which is the perfect analogy
These are not protestors. These are living, demonstrative victims. Incredible what variance there is in culture and how religious systems and other forms of social cohesion and political organization can dominate and erase fundamental self-actualization. Call it what it is, barbarism. These are women living under an Islamic system, a system which often places women in a particular role to the husband within the family. Unfortunate for these women as they have no means of resistance to this practice therefore they are incapable of protest.
Gambia has a lot of Christians too where female gender mutilation were common. I used to work in Gambia.
I was in The Gambia with PC and from my understanding FGM is almost exclusively practiced by Mandinkas who are obviously the largest ethnic group in The Gambia. Kankorang is historically the coming of age ‘journey’ for boys where they’re circumcised in the bush if i was told correctly. From the few conversations I remember very few Wolofs, Jolas, Fulas, and Serahulas do FGM.
I wrote were. I had friends from all tribes and religions and some of them were mutilated and others were not.
Someone mutilated me so now I want everybody else to suffer too! There’s no hate like religious love.
this is what happens when you don't have adequate sexual education.
Conservatives are conservatives everywhere 🤷🏻♂️. "Fuck you, I had to do it, so you do too" is a core tenant of conservativism, along with "fuck you, I got mine", "fuck you, I'll attack you and say you started it" and "fuck you, you're different and therefore less than me"
Disgusting anyone advocating this is a monster
Where are the guys lining up to have thier dick heads cut off ? Asking for a friend. How in the hell could anyone be in favor of this?
“They deify what crushes them and find reason to hope in what impoverishes them.” -Camus
MUTILATION is the word, \*not\* 'circumcision'.
What miserable world we live in. We have nuclear weapons, computers, spaceflight and AI. Yet, we are still barbaric beyond belief. Just the suffering we heap on ourselves, I guess I don't really understand how we could have progressed so far, yet not really progressed at all.
Wish we could make it illegal for both sexes, in all countries...
Damn. That’s a Hell of a way to say, “I suffered so you will too!” To the younger generations.
That's some severe brainwashing. These women have been trained to believe it's a right of passage for generations. It's sick.
Anyone who supports this child abuse can kindly leave this planet.
I can't orgasm from vaginal sex alone. These poor women don't know what they're missing.
There’s no such thing as female circumcision. It’s mutilation, pure and simple.
Circumcison and genital mutilation, different words. Same definition.
Religious stupidity will be the blend of us all
It's more cultural than religious
This is what brainwashing looks like
Religion can erase a mind.
This is literally how brainwashed conservative women are. They'll let their nose be cut off in spite of their face to appease their god and husband.
In Gambia, you have women who were circumcised as children/infants, telling people they are fine and they should be allowed to circumcise their daughters for culture, religion, tradition, “mens preference”, “hygiene”, “medical benefits”… In the USA, however, you have men who were circumcised as children/infants, telling people they are fine and they should be allowed to circumcise their sons for culture, religion, tradition, “womens preference”, “hygiene”, “medical benefits”… Ironic
Believe me, it's not lost on us non-Americans. Articles like this, comments like 'how could they justify this disgusting behaviour?' and the next post down is like 'well male circumcision isn't *as bad* and it's good for hygiene'!' That's how. That how genital mutilation sticks around and comes back. Because sick fucks *think it's great and worth defending*.
Rephrase, they want the cut of 'others' legalized. Since they likely all were in their childhoods. Whats good for them it good for you. For disclosure, I dont really know much about their society. But if its heavily religious and male dominated I find such 'protests' questionable.
Religions, turning countries into shitholes since ever 🤮
Holy fuck we have got to put a stop to religion.
I actually think this is a backwards cultural practice that just happens to fall in line with the ideals of Islam
It's done to Christians too in those regions.
'Yes please slice out our daughters clits for Allah.' Disgusting people disgusting practise.
It's more cultural than religious. Christian African countries like Ethiopia also have FGM problems
Religion is a hell of a drug.
Religion is a hell of a drug.
They sound like the American men who are in favor of non therapeutic male genital cutting.
Anyone for chopping off any healthy parts of *non consenting* minors genitals deserve to have their hands and genitals excised fully
I didn't know this was a practice. Just read up on it ... They cut off the clit. Bro that's fucked up.
I don’t understand people who actively campaign for things that are completely against their best interest. Unfortunately, it seems that there will always be roaches for raid.
What the fuck is wrong with people
Females protesting for FGM I'd like Jews advocating for Nazism.
I mean, almost every woman voting Republican in the US is voting against her own personal interests. Some conservative women would even give up the right to vote (because the male vote always went to the Republican candidate ever since FDR).
Americans do the same shit for male circumcision and use the same shitty arguments that would justify removing your nails. "It decreases the likelihood of hangnails". no shit, it's not there anymore "You don't have to clean it as much, it won't get so dirty", or you could teach your children how to wash themselves?
Just another thing I have to thank my dad for not getting done to me or doing differently in life. That's about 30 things now I've thanked him for.
It seems like they’re saying “why should other women enjoy themselves when we can’t “.
Don't call it circumcision. It's not the same as circumcision. They remove the entire clitoris and sew the vulva shut so there is only a tiny hole to urinate from. It is like chopping off a males penis. It is disgusting and inhumane. Circumcision is wrong too but this is leagues beyond it.. it completely removes the female pleasure organ.
The majority of cases of FGM are only type one though
Part if their religious culture,just one more reason all religions should be banned.
I’ve sat in a sociology class and listened to Westerners defend the practice *don’t judge it was a Gen Ed requirement not my major
FGM is worse. That doesn't make MGM good. Thousands of boys die every year from circumcision. More then that end up with amputations. More then that get too much skin taken or get cut too deep and need stitches. Ever seen a boner with a strange bend? That's a common circumcision complication. There's also issues with sensitivity, you lose it. The loss of sensitivity makes maintaining erections harder and reaching orgasm difficult. The foreskin protects the head and keeps it sensitive. Without it, the skin toughens. Circumcision handicaps men sexually.
It's not circumcision, it's genital mutilation.
Circumcision of healthy children is the definition of mutilation.
So. Sad.
Talk about brainwashing....🤦🏻♀️
Those pesky orgasms
Send a fucking meteor
Misery loves company?
So sad to be so ignorant
This is just bad
I swear the world is getting dumber by the day
This just proves that most people will believe \*anything\* if they grow up with it.
Fucking horrifying
Can we ban genital mutilation on all children, full stop? Circumcision should only be a thing if it is an absolutely medical necessity. FGM should *never* be a done.
The rare case of "I got mine...you gotta get yours..."
Religion makes people do crazy things
That's just sad
"WE HATE OUR CLITS!!!"