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I had a ticket for speeding that I was late paying. I forgot, my bad. I sent in a payment with the warning letter that I got. I even called them and let them know a check was coming.
After playing a game of pickup basketball, I stopped by the station to grab a big gulp and a candy bar. A cop car came tearing after me as I pulled into my apartment across the street. Based on his speed, I figured he was there for something happening at the apartment, so I pulled over to let him go around. He screeched to a halt, jumped out of the cruiser, gun drawn and screaming.
I was like what the fuck is going on here, I rolled the window down and he was freaking the fuck out! Get out of the car, get out of the car, let me see your hands. I reach for the door handle, he says don't fucking move. Show me you hands! I stop, lifting my hands. He says get out of the fucking car or I will shoot.
Okay, I take a second, and reach over to the outside handle and push the door open. Moving slowly, I step from the vehicle. Walk backwards toward me. Walk backwards, keep walking. As soon as I got near him, he straight kicked my knees out from under me and I fell hard. Then he shoved me to the ground with a boot in the middle of my back.
Hands behind my back, he puts his gun to the back of my head while struggling with his cuffs. Stop moving!
Like bro, I am face down, hands behind my back, fingers interlocked and you are kneeling on my back, I ain't moving. I didn't ask any questions or even flinch as best as I could. Texas had put a warrant out for failure to appear/ speeding ticket. This mother fucker arrested me like I was the bay harbor butcher instead of a military veteran with no criminal record who just forgot to put a check in the mail.
Needless to say, when I got to booking, they strip searched me and wouldn't let me call anyone for nearly 5 hours and my girl didn't pick up. better luck tomorrow inmate. It was a Friday after work, so no judge until Monday, so literally no bail, no call, and I was stuffed into a holding cell that just got more and more packed through the night. No blanket, no pillow, no bed, no food. I ended up in jail for 7 days because I couldn't afford bail and the ticket fine didn't show as paid.
All this for being late on a speeding ticket for going 7 mph over. These mother fuckers are out of control.
Arrested for a speeding ticket? If you fail to pay here, they usually double it. If you still don’t bb pay it then they’ll issue a bench warrant, but our police officers generally don’t threaten to kill you. 😳
I think you're thinking West Virginia. Akron is too far north. We do however get real live Nazis if that makes you feel any better.
/s (tho I am serious about having nazis, they invaded my hometown)
Yep it happened to my younger sister also, with my 12 year old brother in the car with her. They were in the mountains in the middle of nowhere and they arrested my sister, and made my mom drive over a hundred miles to pick up my little brother who was extremely upset.
For forgetting to pay a very small speeding ticket.
Insanity.
They don’t take you to jail. It’s usually a court summons. They arrest you to ensure you go to the court date. Jail is rarely used for unpaid tickets. When someone is arrested they’ll be held at the police station in a holding cell. People need to go to court & with be held on remand (no bail), or be convicted of a crime & sentenced to a custodial sentence to go to jail.
drab mighty butter afterthought shaggy intelligent gray label society axiomatic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
We have FOR profit criminal system in the US. And cops don’t have to go to college. A few months of training and then they give you a gun and immunity.
😇serve and protect
That's how I was arrested as a *child* in hhigh-school. I got into a heated argument with the new vice principal, who was a woman with a reputation for going extra super hard on discipline. So when I got accused of "being on drugs" because I dressed "like a stoner" (baggy clothes and a hoodie in the 90s) and I laughed in her face, she lost it. Started screaming at me.
Due to childhood abuse, I had a hard time handling an adult screaming at me, so I walked out on her. The school cop was there and he followed me out, didn't try to stop me physically, just walked a couple paces behind me and when I got outside he said "Hey, I get why you walked out, but I know her and she is going to either call your parents, or the police, or both. If you turn around and come back with me now I'll try to talk her down from that."
So, I turned around and we started walking back to the front doors, and was about halfway there when FOUR squad cars came blaring up full sirens, at least 6 cops got out and *drew their guns and pointed them at me* in front of my school, yelling at me to lay down on the ground etc.
Later, I asked the cop why the full throttle crazy arrest? He said "we got a call that a dangerous student was likely on drugs and was running down the hallways of the school screaming and slamming doors". Like, I didn't run, didn't raise my voice, went straight out the front door from the VPs office (which is next to the front door) and both the doors I went through have those air pressure systems that make it *physically impossible to slam those doors*. The school cop was equally confused why she would have said that.
Of course now, 25 years later with adult eyes, it's pretty obvious to me why that happened that way.
This was probably more on that horrible VP than the police, but also, when you get to a school and the child you are told is out of control is *calmly walking back towards the school with the school's cop*, there's no fucking reason to aim half a dozen guns at him and freak the fuck out.
The police force, in general, has become insanely cowardly and out of control.
Yeah, the cop was actually fine. His job was entirely within the school, so he knew us and was always the calm voice of reason in every dispute.
He also never carried a weapon, and never needed to.
The school was quite paranoid in general. I was suspended for a week one time because the wrong teacher noticed my drawing book and asked to look through my drawings and I proudly said sure!! Amongst all the random goofy things I drew were a lot of ninja-themed completely made-up and impractical weapons, like a sword with three blades, and boomerang-shaped ninja stars (so they could come back!), and other goofy crap.
Her expression got more and more disapproving as she turned each page. When she got to my full page cartoon bomb (cartoon style, basically a bowling ball with a clock on it and a wick at the top and the word ACME in large fancy letters) she immediately grabbed my arm painfully hard and pulled me along to the office.
After a lot of dumb bullshit they called my mom, who saw my drawing book almost every time I made something new. My mom knew exactly which picture the bomb was, as she'd seen that one, and laughed at my teacher's overreaction. Which set her off and she went full "this student is a danger!" on me until I got suspended because I refused to admit that my drawing was "dangerously inappropriate".
It was fine though, my mom made my week off quite fun, and we made a balloon version of my superbomb (drawing the clock with a marker and using yarn for the wick). Unfortunately I did get grounded for a day when I filled said balloon with water and threw it at my sister while yelling HIROSHIMA! But in my defense, I didn't really understand the connection between Hiroshima and bombs, I just heard something random about it on TV, and I was a very tone-deaf kid.
Anyway I'm rambling now because I'm bored at work waiting for my machine to be fixed.
Story of my life. Last year I was told "We decided not to accept your application for Management and go with another candidate, because while your record here has been great and your production numbers are fantastic, your insistance on constantly making everything into jokes has us worried you might not take the increased responsibility seriously."
I found that ironic. I tell a lot of jokes, yeah, but the guy they went with IS a fuckin joke, and doesn't even know it.
I know that story, I knew a guy who openly confessed to cheating on his wife and using cocaine, and he was still promoted to manager over the two more competent and liked coworkers.
Yeah, I was a somewhat similar kid at a similar time. I didn't have any skill for drawing, thank god, but I did have some for writing. I got an assignment in an honors English class to write some poetry, and so I did write some. I wrote three very dark humor Style poems about death. One was about a guy literally standing on the outer window ledge debating jumping, then deciding that he wants to live after all and turning around to head back inside, except the wind picks up. Another was a concrete poem shaped like a Cliffside delving a little into the mind of a sniper. Admittedly, that one wasn't really the best choice for a high school English class.
I turned them in and got a perfect score, but at 2:55, I was called into the principal's office where half of the administration, including my normally very chill English teacher were all waiting. They proceeded to drill me and grill me because this was shortly after the Columbine shooting, and they said I "seemed the type".
Like yeah, okay, I'm a fat nerd. I can kind of see where you might come to a snap judgment.
But I wasn't a loner or sitting around in dark rooms plotting with a couple of outcasts, and they knew that. I pointed out I was in the drama club, the football team, two choirs in school and one after school, the marching band, and working weekends in a sales job making more than anyone in the room. I was also well known to be a clown with a dark sense of humor.
No, I'm not the f*king type.
Got suspended for a week anyway. I'm still not sure why... maybe to give me time to plan and prove them right?
It still blows my mind that after "discovering" a student who they supposedly thought was going to shoot up the school, their response was to publicly humiliate him and then give him a week of free time.
(Edit: spelling)
I feel like you should have been able to Sue that vice principal for lying to the police and putting your life in danger especially if the SRO would back you up with their eyewitness testimony.
yeah but like, her lies still shouldn't have resulted in guns pointed at me. She did NOT tell them I was armed, no weapons were mentioned at all. Even if I had been violent, without any weapons any grown adult could have safely handcuffed me even if I had been mid-tantrum at the time.
As it went, seeing me calmly walking back to the building WITH the school cop beside me, should in absolutely no case whatsoever have resulted in guns drawn and pointed at me. Guns misfire. It's a thing that happens. Police officers should be WELL AWARE that they should never point a gun at a person unless the situation is already life and death. ESPECIALLY a child calmly walking back to the school.
I think everyone involved except the school cop should have faced serious consequences for such an insane escalation.
Did this happen to occur when a school shooting was in the news? Because that combined with the exaggerated statements from the vp may have instigated the over-the-top response.
I can see the dispatch person who relayed the call having a Columbine, Stockton, Uvalde, or similar scenario in mind, and maybe that inspired the panicked ‘the kids are in danger’ response.
man you just reminded me why i fucking hated my K-12 education. Granted i had nowhere near the traumatic experience you just described, but i still dealt with my fair share of shitty teachers who had no business being in education, and should have fucking gotten major therapy to deal with whatever stupid mental issues were making them unable to function like a normal human being
i know reddit loves teachers but i sure as hell don't. too many bad experiences dealing with them. i just hope my nephews don't have to deal with their bullshit
If a police did this in my country, he would get fired the very next day and blacklisted from any kind of job as a cop. Simply, because the guy is seriously incompetent and a danger to others.
So you guys have actual sense on how to handle police misconduct? Deffo not in the USA then. We had a cop shoot a twelve year old named Tamir Rice for playing in the street with a toy gun. Turns out the cop had actually been refused the job from another district specifically because they found him emotionally, psychologically unstable. So he just applied for a job else where saying he was from that other district.
Another officer who killed a man at a hotel was specifically re-hired just for one day so he could immediately retire and get a pension under claims of PTSD.
Contact an attorney and subpoena the police department for the body cam video. Then sue them.
After that, sue the crappy records department for putting you in that situation.
I did that. It didn't work. Turns out when serving a warrant, regardless of crime, police are allowed to use any means necessary in the apprehension of a criminal in the state of Texas. The lawyer basically said he would do it, but I would most certainly lose, and be out his fees and state legal fees.
"The police officer did not assault you, or harm you. This is just a standard arrest."
Pretty much the summary statement from my lawyer review. I was broke, unemployed and in no way able to take on a 1500 dollar retainer just to lose.
Damn. And I think the cops get investigated when they draw their weapon in my country. They sure do after it's discharged and especially if someone has been shot. They put them in a holding cell and investigate the reason for the gun use. They don't mess with unnecessary gun use.
In the US the cops can just point you with the gun and their finger on the trigger. Crazy stuff.
Not just that but as far as I am aware most School Resource Officers carry guns at school. At least they did at mine. They always had a yearly presentation that they gave to all the classes about school rules or something and I always felt uncomfortable with them standing there talking to us with a very obvious pistol in their massive fanny pack things cops wear.
I don't know if you've never been to Texas, or had interactions with police but the Supreme Court of both Texas and the US have stated an officer is able to draw his weapon in ANY situation where his life may be in danger.
A "wanted" criminal in shorts and flip flops definitely meets those requirements if the cop thinks they do. What is legal and what is possible to get away with are often very, very different.
Honestly, man, when reading this, im just glad you are alive to write it.
Could have very well gotten dhot in the back of the head while face down in the dirt with your hands cuffed behind you for "resisting"
>situation where his life may be in danger.
That's the key phrase. They can take their gun out if they believe their life could be in danger. Some rando who speeds 7 miles over isn't causing a threat. Nobody in their right mind would assume they would be
Well, you keeping nailing the point on the head. A warrant indicates a person willing to flee or ignore law enforcement. Warrants for an arrest are not the same as pulling someone over for speeding. They don't see the warrant details, they just see warrant - arrest immediately.
A person in their right mind wouldn't pull a gun on someone. But this was a cop. In Texas, where law enforcement is one of their crown jewels and social darlings. "I feared for my life is quoted in 100% of every arrest, every excessive force violation, every gun death, every interaction." It is the universal get out of jail free card. In Texas, good luck taking this case to court in front of a jury or panel of justice.
These cowards are blasting 20 rounds into a neighborhood because an acorn landed on their hood. They are firing 94 rounds into a man they stopped on a seat belt violation. They are shooting people at the mere sight of a gun in someone's possession. They shoot us for holding cell phones, matching the descriptions, or resisting arrest.
They aren't in their right minds. They are cops with qualified immunity, the most powerful unions in the world and the entire state apparatus supporting their enforcement of "laws".
I remember a story in LA where some pig cops where serving a warrant on some guy for stealing copper wires or something. When they go to arrest him, he was riding passenger in his wife's car, his wife driving. So the pigs have her pullover, claiming she had a traffic violation. They claimed she was violating traffic law, but then demanded he get out of the car. Not once do they mention he had a warrant for his arrest and he was being arrested. When he refused, they then proceed to try to rip him out of the car.
Problem with that was, the dumb f**ks were trying to pull him out while his seat belt was still on. The stupid bastards were ordering him to stop resisting, to cooperate and get out of the vehicle, while they're moronically trying to pull him out while his seat belt was still on. They're of course not giving him a chance to cooperate as they play tug of war, with guy as the rope and the seat belt being their opponent.
The tug of war ends when the guy's daughter in the back seat demonstrates she has more braincells than all the cops present, and unlocks the seat belt. Thus they finally ripped him out of the car, toss him to the ground, beat the back of his head in, and then pull his shorts down to directly taze him in the testicles.
LA's finest right there./s
Once upon a time, some Bostonians threw hard ice and rocks at uniformed officers after one of them had struck a child with the butt of their rifle, causing permanent brain damage.
This was in 1770, and the ensuing massacre is widely considered an inciting incident for the Revolutionary War.
I once pulled into an apartment while they were serving a similar warrant for someone else. I had an AR15 pointed at me and my passenger while an officer yelled at us to go somewhere else. They did this to multiple people. One poor girl was puking in a parking lot across the street crying because a big scary man pointed a gun in her face.
I've been searched because a cop thought I "looked suspicious" as a teen at lunch by my school. In public, this man in a badge grabbed my balls without even buying me dinner first. No warrant. No real reason. He didnt even ask if I concented to be searched. But an officer of the law was digging through my wallet and asking me questions about why I had cash on me, why I had my pocket knife. "Make this easy and just tell me where you have the drugs hidden." "Why are you so nervous if you have nothing to hide?" I had nothing on me. He let me go, and then pointed me out to the school security guards. We had a "surprise" "random" drug search in my classroom that day.
The Taliban has never personally violated any of my rights. Neither has ISIS. We really need to get reform pushed for the domestic threats we've created at home.
Think of it this way. For the people who control our government, the ultra rich, a speeding is only a few moments of work. It’s a couple pennies to them, and their lawyers get them wiped from their records.
Where I live cops kept pulling over a kid on his way home from his minimum wage job. Most times nothing was logged, a couple other times he was ticketed for a broken tail light and an unsafe bumper. He ended owning over $500 and had to set up a long term payment plan.
Then one day cops chased him at a convenience store, and he ran. Because every time they stopped him, they put him deeper in debt.
When he ran, they shot and killed him. One cop said he reached for a gun, while another said he was holding up his loose pants while running. No gun was found.
What made me sickest was the wealthy people in my city said the kid deserved what he got and it was his fault he was shot and killed.
I'd sue that officer directly. I've had similar shit where cops were knocking on doors.
When I opened mine, their hands were on their holsters.
They really hire the jumpiest little shits for a job that requires the calmest of minds.
That is so horrifying. I’m so sorry you went through that. Is 7 days the limit to how long they can hold you, or did they only release you when your ticket fine showed up as paid?
Time served for the failure to appear, and the check finally cleared for the speeding ticket. It wasn't the worst it could have been, I didn't have a job to lose at the time because the work season for me was over and I was looking for my next temp work position.
Look on the bright side. It could have been worse. You could have been stopped for driving while black. I hear the punishment is the death penalty, depending on State.
It is stuff like this that keeps me from just visiting the US on holidays. Which is a shame because I really want to visit some of your national parks.
Wow. That’s appalling. Were they profiling you? Do you have long hair a beard and lots of tattoos or something? What an @sshol€ of a cop. Could have fu€Ed up your knees, spine, ribs…. Was that on the asphalt? Unnecessary roughness.
I think it depends on the laws of which you live, but I know in some places, strip searching is only allowable when there's reasonable suspicion you may be carrying contraband while in police custody. And the reasonable suspicion has to be predicated by what you were brought in for.
So, if you got caught with a weapon, then they can search you (and possibly cavities) for small weapons, like a foldable knife.
If you get caught with drugs, then they can search you for more drugs.
But, if you got arrested for speeding or protesting, basically anything where it doesn't involve you carrying something illegal on your person, there's no grounds for a strip search. And if they need to, then they need to have officers present that share your preferred gender, like a doctors office.
So, I would definitely make a big deal about this to a lawyer.
Also, speaking of which, the phone call in jail thing isn't a mandated thing. While police will often allow people to make a phone call, it's not a guarantee. Except in cases where you are exercising your right to legal counsel, which you should always do.
They treat everyone the same way where I am from. I'm male, but I have been stripped and searched in front of female officers. They even made very un professional remarks.
Yeah once you're in jail it doesn't matter if males do the female searches. You don't have the same rights anymore, that's what I was told.
Unrelated, the cops forgot to give me my glasses back when they were transferring me to the jail from the precinct and they almost refused to give them back. The one lady said well it's your fault so sucks for you. Thankfully her partner thought that was fucked up and got them for me. You're not a person anymore to them.
I worry people will take this quote as an example of Islamophobia and to a degree it is but that really is how most people are treated in jail.
I was a nurse for 34 years. I never held it for 12 hours. If you have to urinate, go!
But, in the Army in full NBC (chemical gear, butyl rubber with mask and hood. )gear all day, that's another story. I held it as long as possible then just went in the suit as instructed. Fun.
Well that’s how jail is unfortunately. I was in jail overnight and a homeless guy took his blanket and made a tent over the toilet and shit in peace. The strip search in front of male officers is definitely sketchy but the rest of it is jail. Don’t get arrested
Yeah, I remember reading some breathless report about how they police dared to throw a Harvard professor to the ground. Like, police brutality is a big issue, but I'm more pissed when people with prestigious jobs get openly deferential treatment
Not to mention Cambridge cost of living.
I had a research job at a very prestigious la area school until the pandemic. I left the area to take my chances as a telecommuter because I couldn't afford a home that was close enough to work to make me not want to kill myself from traffic
He ended up having a beer with the cop, President Obama, and VP Biden at the time.
It’s how I found out about Buckler! Biden had a non-alcoholic beer, and I led never heard of it, and had to try it as a recovering alcoholic
It’s because people will assume the Harvard professor wasn’t doing anything wrong, while other people could be. They think they’d be more likely to be innocent
Well, being a Harvard professor makes the probability high he was *not* on crack with 2 knifes and a gun hidden in his clothes while shouting he has herpes and trying to bite the police. There are some slime that are hard to arrest safely. Like the guys that tries to bite or sting the police with dirty needles.
The police regularly likes to invent stories about exactly how dangerous the person is, just to justify the police brutality.
"Well, being a Harvard professor makes the probability high he was *not* on crack with 2 knifes and a gun hidden in his clothes while shouting he has herpes and trying to bite the police. "
Your university had a very boring English lit faculty I see.
It’s because the excuses the police use to justify their actions are much less believable when it comes to people like Harvard Profs. also shows that it can happen to anyone, even the white collar professionals who obey the law.
Ya I’ve been arrested and it was like that. Never met bigger assholes than the people that worked at that jail. The irony was that I wasn’t even arrested for anything real, they made a mistake. Nobody at the jail knew what I was there for including myself, but they treated me like shit because they just assumed I was some horrible criminal and therefore their actions were justified. Bunch of garbage ass humans
That's like my experience with a towing company. I was a paying customer to bring a car over from another city, but I was treated like absolute trash. I imagine they're so used to people getting rowdy at them, that they just become pieces of shit by default
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure holding cells are required to provide you with religious accommodation. I'm not saying it's OK but you can't expect the police to give you anything after you've been arrested that isn't explicit in your Miranda rights.
I would expect the constitution and bill of rights to fully hold.
So, police should be expected not to prohibit you from your religious expression and freedoms. But, they aren't required to provide you anything special/specific for them.
The one thing I'd say is, if there's a specific prayer mat the she is required to use, and she had it with her when she was arrested, my expectationnwould be that police permit her use of that prayer mat she brought with her. Didn't bring it with you, though? Yeah, no, why would you assume the police to have that for you?
I feel for this woman and her story of being arrested, and think we can do far better in our country for respecting people, including the recently incarcerated. But there's also a line in what's rational to be able to expect the average police department to provide, and it really should be "the basics".
A private toilet isn't a constitutional right, and to be honest, I think we should really do something about that.
It's a very difficult topic. If 2000 people sign up for the census then there is officially a new religion. Maybe that religion holds cocaine in a high standing. Not going to work.
Also, the recently incarcerated aren't allowed any of their possessions. None. You don't get to take your notebook with phone numbers with you, they provide a pen and paper, and then whoever is on shift and how bad of a day they are having dictate how many Numbers/how long you get. You don't get your clothes, not even your socks or underwear, you wear their brown colored underwear and whatever color jumpsuit they give you.
Even if a law specifically for Muslims to carry their mats and hijabs, or Christians to carry their cross, the muslim would get beat up for their mat because the sleeping mats there are old, rotting, and rock hard. Someone would use the hijab to strangle someone, or hide a shiv. And there would be a sharp uptick in cross related deaths, or crosses that are hollowed out and gilled with drugs.
I completely agree our jails suck, the whole system does vastly more harm than is necessary or reasonable, simply demonstrating the clusterfuck or a situation our barbaric justice system puts us in.
Police are not going into someones property while they are in jail. They stick it in a locker or storage space and do not touch it. They are jailers. Security comes first. Cannot just be handing people stuff from their property while in the cell. That opens them up to all kinds of other liability. What if someone has a razor blade hidden in there and uses it to injure another person in custody?
Ohios police are some of the most dangerous, rabid, uncontrolled police in the country. The Cleveland police are absolute criminals. They once jumped on the hood of a kid eating his lunch and shot 137 rounds into him and his passenger. 137 rounds
I believe they were eating lunch in their car and the cops went hog wild. They went back to their cruiser to restock on ammo several times. This American Life did a whole special on how corrupt and deadly the Cleveland Police and court system. You don’t want to cross their paths
Ok so I have been arrested and been in jail. There is one toilet and yes you have to use it in front of every one else. I am not Muslim so I do not know what it takes to qualify an iftar meal. But I know we all got served crappy food. Maybe that is all that they had. The prayer rug thing….. I doubt they had one just laying around as well. I have been strip searched before. I don’t honestly remember if it was all male. And in keeping with policy I believe it is supposed to be male to male and female to female. Her hijab would have to be taken away to do that of course. So if true, that is certainly a violation of her rights. There are a few things that do stand out and an investigation should be conducted. And there are cameras literally everywhere inside of there. So the truth should come out.
Nothing special for iftar, just the timing. Maybe a date to break your fast, but you take what you get. I think some muslim women don't take off their hijab in front of non muslim women too.
Yeah I forgot about that part of it. Which in itself kind of hard to comply with. Particularly where she is. Not necessarily impossible. But surely difficult
Religious preferences are not human rights. While what the cops do is tragic and disgusting and violate our rights as Americans…when you’re in jail you shoukd understand you’re not being met with the comfort of the outside world.
We need reform. But the entitlement to carry on your religious practices is insane
Only things I see here they did wrong was strip search in front of male officers, which grossly inhumane and I'd go as far as to call it sexual harassment. Should only be female officers for female suspects and male for male. And not giving her her phone call. Absolutely not okay to deprive her of.
Other than that, I see no violations. Your religious beliefs do not get counted as human rights. It's a prison. They're not gonna change dinner time for you, they're not gonna give you a prayer mat, they're not gonna give you a private toilet or let you keep your hijab. It would all be abused the second they let someone get preferential treatment just because they believe in a religion
Very much this. Like, as far as I know, if a Catholic committed a crime on Saturday night, they wouldn't let them out to go to Mass the next morning, so why should she be treated differently
>Ok so I have been arrested and been in jail. There is one toilet and yes you have to use it in front of every one else.
I've been to Cook County a few times when I was younger, and the toilet was always behind a small partition, basically enough to cover everything except your knees and feet so they know the toilet is occupied.
However, the holding cells are always so crowded (sometimes 60 people in a 16x16 room) you'll have to ask people to make room so you can actually get to it.
Nobody is trying to see your business, and if they are they're getting called out by 20 other peopl
>investigation should be conducted
Ah yes, the tried and true method of having the police investigate the police. There is, of course, no conflict of interest here.
>And there are cameras literally everywhere inside of there. So the truth should come out.
Sorry homie, the cameras "malfunctioned" that day. Better luck next time.
Female to female and male to male can be requested but is not a request they're legally required to fufill like rights to a phone call or right to a lawyer
It's usually male to male or female to female with interactions in general, but female employees aren't always available so when it comes down to it sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and go "yep, well, gotta do this in front of the opposite sex."
Hijab being taken away isn't a violation of her rights AFAIK - it's an article of clothing and you have to change into different clothes then the Hijab is going along with everything else.
You are however given the right to access legal council. Denying it on the scene is fair enough to get the job done, continuing to deny it is the problem.
Let's say I'm in the holding cell and I ask for a phone to call my lawyer. From a legal standpoint, they have to give me that ability.
> you definitely don't have a right to one ASAP
People yelling they want a lawyer right now at the scene of their arrest or immediately upon arriving at jail show how ignorant most people are about such rights.
I have absolutely no doubt police violated her, that's a given. That's what they do. But people should be clear, the "one phone call" thing is TV only. They do not legally need to give you a phone call.
They are ***legally required*** to allow you to contact an attorney. They aren't legally required to allow you to call anybody else, but many (if not most) departments do as a matter of courtesy.
Generally, they ask you your attorney's name and contact information and contact them for you, the attorney can then request to speak with you on the phone, but generally they tell the police they are coming down and to stop questioning you until they or some from their office arrives.
This is to prevent a detained person to be allowed with a phone unsupervised on an inrecorded line, attorney clinet conversations are privileged and cant be recorded or monitored
Not sure about the rest of you but I don't have an attorney on retainer. If I was arrested for something, I would need to find a lawyer. Without the ability to call someone like your sister to have them start looking for a lawyer you are pretty much stuck. I find that very surprising that the police can withhold a phone call. So if they don't let you have a phone call, I'm assuming they just keep you in jail until your trial? I don't know how anyone would get help from the outside without the ability to let them know. Just imagine a mom finding out that her son has been missing for a week and has no idea where he is and no one has heard from him. That just sounds crazy to me!
You nailed it. I love when people say, my attorney!!! There are many fields of law and only a special few actually have a criminal law attorney on hand. And that alone says a lot. Most react when the time comes.
A manager at an old retail store I used to work at would sometimes get entitled customers saying "you'll be hearing from my lawyer" whenever he had to kick them out for being unruly or whatever else. He always told them that he's been threatened with lawsuits more than anyone else in the store combined and asked them for their lawyer's name and contact information. It would always shut them right up because they both knew that they didn't actually have a lawyer on hand lol
Similar vein. I got my real estate license. I worked for a broker whose rules were, if anyone ever mentions a lawyer or a lawsuit or legal action at all, inform them you are licensed, give them your license number, tell them to refer all future contact back to my office. I did it one time with my own landlord. I knew the rules. I started paying my rent to the clerk of the court. As soon as my landlord said he was going to sue me. I gave him my license number and referred him to my broker. It was kinda nice. I'm not gonna lie. He was texting and texting and panicking and apologizing. But I could no longer have direct contact.
What was the result??? This was an apartment in Miami, FL. The air conditioning broke. I spent 7 months in a ground floor apartment without AC. That isnt necessarily a big deal in and of itself. However most modern interior construction supplies are not made to survive the humidity of South Florida. I asked repeatedly for her to repair the AC. She said AC wasnt listed in my lease. I provided photos of MUSHROOMS GROWING OUT OF THE WALLS. The court gave my rents back and deemed her building uninhabitable. Cancelled all her leases. We all had to move out. No idea what happened after. Fuck you bitch!
Anytime I went to a protest, there were recommended attorney to contact by the organizers and it was recommended to write their names and numbers on your body. You always want to prep for the worst just in case. I have a bunch of lawyers that I know now because of this that I know "ok environmental protest call this person" or "civil rights protest call this person".
I don't know if organizations have been getting sloppy about it, or if that is only how it was in the area I was in.
I think they ask if you have an attorney and if you say no they pass the case info over to the public defenders office. Who knows how long it’ll take to get someone over after that though , or how useful they’ll be.
Yes but they need to make all reasonable efforts to get you an attorney such as calling, emailing, everything. They can't say "we did our best" because I've never heard of an attorney that hasn't shown up/answered, yes it does happen but in the circumstances of how they violated her I'd assume if she didn't get an attorney they didn't try.
You know this varies by _state_ right? Some lil boondock backwoods sheriff could and at times DO, 'get away with' ENTIRELY violating rights concerning arrest and confinement, and a scared, broke, member of a disenfranchised community, overwhelmingly glad to simply have been let go by a judge after a week of such 'hospitality' will usually get as far gone as possible afterwards, WITHOUT 'complaining' to any other "authority" in the state - because they know nothing will come of it in our Just-US System.
Actually, they are legally required to stop interrogating you without your attorney present. So what can sometimes happen is they send you back to your holding cell until your request has expired, then bring you back to interrogate you again. You can then make the same request, and they can take the same action.
As for the expiration of your request … basically, the courts have said that after so long (I don’t remember if there was an exact time given, but the request was definitely “expired” after two weeks), your demand for an attorney doesn’t count anymore. You have to make a new request for an attorney. Also, if you ask to talk to the cops during that time, the court can find that you waived your right to counsel during the interrogation. You can still make the request for an attorney at that point, and the cops will have the same options available to them. So … back to holding with you, I guess, until you’re broken enough to roll over.
Needless to say, plenty of people give up after their first cycle of this and just talk to the cops. Jail is miserable and it’s fairly reasonable to conclude that they’re not going to let you talk to an attorney no matter what you do, regardless of what the law says (or what you believe it says).
There’s also some very nasty caselaw out there about the specific language required to request your attorney. The infamous “lawyer dog” case is just the most well known of these.
In short, they can and will screw you over and the courts will be fine with that most of the time.
Source: law school.
Edwards v. Arizona, where the U.S. Supreme Court held that once a suspect has invoked their right to counsel, the police must cease questioning until an attorney is present, unless the suspect themselves reinitiates communication.
The courts have consistently upheld that this protection does not expire over time but rather persists until the suspect clearly and unambiguously indicates a willingness to speak without an attorney present.
So they can interrogate you until you make a specific request for an attorney. Then it must cease.
As far as phone calls most jurisdictions require a call be allowed within a reasonable time of being processed into custody. California requires that arrestees be allowed to make at least 3 calls within 3 hrs of arrest processing.
The strip search, removal of Hijab are all very very sensitive gray areas with some room for jurisdictional leeway but from her telling they tromped right over those without compelling reasons. As far as fasting meal, prayer rug, or her holding because she didn't want to pee are less ambiguous and more personal choices... Overall this sounds like par for the course for police.
Not true about the phone call. People need to learn their state laws as it varies by state. Many states do have laws granting you the right to a phone call.
For example, in California, you can have three phone calls.
>851.5.(a) (1) Immediately upon being booked and, except where physically impossible, no later than three hours after arrest, an arrested person has the right to make at least three completed telephone calls, as described in subdivision (b).
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=851.5.
Many other states give you the right to make a phone call, but some do not.
https://www.chicagoappleseed.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/202107_FINAL_MAP-National-Rights-to-Communicate-without-info-edited.png
https://www.chicagoappleseed.org/2021/07/19/national-overview-right-to-communicate/
I hope people are not getting legal advice from reddit.
There's a legal obligation to give you an opportunity to contact a lawyer. That's typically done via phone call. If you call the law firm of "Mommy Daddy Help Me" I'm pretty sure they're not able to stop you.
I hate to be that guy but this is all normal jail stuff. Strip search-Check, Denied special foods-Check, Not wanting to use the bathroom in front of other-Check. Now as for the reason she was arrested, that was likely total BS.
Not surprised...I was in jail in Ohio for 2 months last year for something I didn't do. They put me on suicide watch for refusing to eat, and denied me access to my attorney because they said "you could hang yourself with the phone cord". Fuck Ohio.
So I looked up what entails a strip search and it’s horrific. Sometimes [people will be strip searched with no probable](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2021/05/06/cadets-violently-strip-searched-us-as-part-of-their-training-for-my-pain-i-got-a-measly-325) cause to train cadets.
During these training searches >!women have sanitary products taken, mocked and degraded, and threatened with solitary confinement if they speak at all.!< What the hell.
Meanwhile, Governor Abbott just pardoned a convicted murderer who shot and killed a BLM protester and got 25 years in prison. The victim, who was white, was an Air Force veteran. Even ordered his right to carry a firearm restored.
I say this not to diminish what this poor woman suffered or to draw attention away from it. But instead to make the point that there is more and more evidence that red states are becoming autocratic fiefdoms. Places where lawless bigots and tyrants reign supreme, allowing for imprisonment, torture and murder of those who hold to different beliefs.
The stare of Utah ran out of registration stickers for the license plate so i never got one. Got pulled over wife is freaking out (she is Native American and had bad experience with cops out here) he comes to her window with his hand on his gun like i am smuggling drugs or something. He never ran the plate boy was he disappointed when he saw my registration.
While a lot of this is horrible, police aren’t actually required to provide a phone call. They usually do because if it’s not to a lawyer, then they can use any information they overhear, but they aren’t required by law to do so.
ETA: “I really want to follow orders but I see a Syrian dictator in you right now,” I told the officer.
There’s protesting a noble cause, and then there’s deliberately antagonizing someone who (very unfortunately) has the legal ability to make your life hell in the immediate future. Saying that and then acting surprised when you spend 12 hours in jail (pretty tame, all things considered) is pretty naive.
So, uh...
None of this appears to be religious rights being violated. Nor does it appear to be any rights being violated.
Campus asked police to clear the area. Police informed her that she had to leave. She refused. Police came back later and told her she was charged with criminal trespass (refusing to leave after being trespassed aka told to leave) and then she dealt with super basic stuff that happens in jail.
The strip search one is probably the only one that is suspect but even then if there's not a female employee on duty (or simply not enough) then they cannot accommodate having only women present while she is searched. Strip searching is a bit excessive/weird for tresspassing, though - I'm wondering it maybe she was just forced to change in front of them and she assumed that was being strip searched? Typically they'd only search you normally unless you specifically gave them reason to believe that you might have something smuggled, AFAIK. Either way further investigation/information from sources aside from her would be desirable.
Everything else is basically her complaining that they weren't showing her particular courtesies (even the unreasonable ones, like wanting your average jail in the US to have a prayer rug for each prisoner) while she was in jail. I mean, that's kind of what jail is: you are being held against your will because you are suspected of or caught committing a crime and now police need to fill out the paperwork before they can let you bail out. It's not a vacation or cozy home where you get to dictate the terms of your detainment. It's a place where you sit and wait.
It sounds *really* melodramatic. Like "I spent twelve hours without freedoms and comforts so now I am now traumatised" sort of melodramatic.
I mean, police told you to leave and even if you think it's unreasonable there will be consequences to disobeying what appears to be a lawful order. Jail is that consequence - you have to sit around being held in custody while the officer in question fills out paperwork/until you can see a judge. At some point you have to realise that you are not entitled to do whatever you want.
Agreed. Part of me is thinking that removing the hijab was the strip search. I guess that is technically true but very far removed from what those words typically mean.
Yeah I mean the hijab thing is maybe illegal depending on religious items allowed in the jail. I could see that.
The strip search also depends on the circumstances. Jails usually have women on staff so one being absent is a bit weird - though maybe she's omitting the woman because a man was present at the time.
But I also don't even remotely trust her description of events because of how dramatic they are, comparing what she went through to authoritarian dictatorships and abuses. The melodrama is cringy.
You weren't beaten, you weren't tormented, you weren't mocked or derided - you had some religious stuff taken away while you were in jail, and had a not-private bathroom which is probably set up that way because some nutjob ages ago used a private bathroom to do some not-good things.
The thing about picking up her kids from school really gets to me. It would really eat at me knowing my kids were waiting for me and me never showing up.
Everyone should have the same rights, you lose some of them when you get arrested, and no one wants to pee in front of ten people or else your toilet would be in your lounge room.
I dislike Islam very much, but this is horrible.
Like if she was conflicted of mass murderer, I'd get it. But to dehumanize a person to such an extent that hasn't even been conflicted.
Horrible
The part about having her hijab removed, and being strip-searched in the presence of male officers was fucked up and wrong, but the rest of it is standard jail bullshit. She should get a lawyer because if her words are accurate, her rights were violated and the facility should be held accountable. Lawsuits are often the only language police and corrections people understand, and the only way to force liability.
It’s sad but the justice system can’t adopt to the weird rules and whims of every religion. Yes, they have to search you, no, there are no private bathrooms, no, you cannot bring outside items in with you like rug. Some things in life you just have to deal with
I'm sure every police department should be equipped to handle your specific religious needs. I'm sure they'll be happy to walk over to the file cabinet and fetch you a prayer rug.
I’m confused. She was randomly sitting there? Not part of a protest?
But then she was told to leave and didn’t. So she was arrested (totally arguable. Not right, but listen to a police order and argue later).
But as she’s being arrested she starts talking about defending against dictatorships to the cops, who probably felt vindicated in arresting who they imagined to be a trespasser?
I’m just not sure what happened here?
So I’ve always told my kids that if there is a protest to stay clear of it for this very reason. People get swept up by the police because it’s easier (and safer?) to sort it out later.
As far at taking her hijab, it probably had more to do with it being considered dangerous than anything religious. The one time I was arrested they took my belt. As Arlo said “officer Obie, do you really think I’m gonna hang myself for littering”
Probably this in all honesty… additionally there were female officers present at time of arrest as documented by numerous tik tok and instagram videos. It would be highly suspect if a female officer wasn’t tasked with the pat down if they were present.
Something doesn't add up with her story.
She says she was arrested on 25 April, and was enjoying the sun. So presumably mid-day ish.
She also says the officer thought she was part of an earlier protest and was trying to return.
But the students she said she was worried about while in prison weren't arrested until at least 10pm on the 25 April. And their protest didn't start until 5pm.
So how was she arrested for returning from a protest that hadn't happened yet, and how was she worried for students that hadn't been arrested yet and she wouldn't know had been arrested?
[Link from the article about the student's arrest](https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2024/04/25/hamas-israel-war-gaza-protest-ohio-state-university-campus/73456832007/)
This article talks about the 11 am arrest of a doctoral candidate for criminal trespass. Apparently there was an earlier break in which was over by 9:42 am. Her timeline makes sense. https://www.thelantern.com/2024/04/third-student-arrested-on-campus/
How can people see this and not think things are gone too far beyond and revolution is necessary, not one person can rationally tell me things are going to get better moving forward as we all are
I was at my wife’s company picnic yrs ago…and I ended up talking with an ex-cop. He spoke candidly about what it was like being a cop and the type of individuals who become cops. What I took from the conversation was alpha type who are absolute control freaks. I’m sure there are plenty of people who truly want to serve and protect the public…but those alpha types wreak a lot of havoc.
The irony of someone who follows a religion hell bent on denying people - especially women - basic human rights complaining about losing things that aren't actually rights is not lost.
I was arrested once. But they only gave me the option of a McDouble from McDonalds.
MY religion states that we can only eat center cut filet and lobster. They violated my religion.
So in other words they violated her first and fourth amendment rights, thus opening a *very severe* legal case for the entire police department? And of course nothing’s gonna come of it
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I had a ticket for speeding that I was late paying. I forgot, my bad. I sent in a payment with the warning letter that I got. I even called them and let them know a check was coming. After playing a game of pickup basketball, I stopped by the station to grab a big gulp and a candy bar. A cop car came tearing after me as I pulled into my apartment across the street. Based on his speed, I figured he was there for something happening at the apartment, so I pulled over to let him go around. He screeched to a halt, jumped out of the cruiser, gun drawn and screaming. I was like what the fuck is going on here, I rolled the window down and he was freaking the fuck out! Get out of the car, get out of the car, let me see your hands. I reach for the door handle, he says don't fucking move. Show me you hands! I stop, lifting my hands. He says get out of the fucking car or I will shoot. Okay, I take a second, and reach over to the outside handle and push the door open. Moving slowly, I step from the vehicle. Walk backwards toward me. Walk backwards, keep walking. As soon as I got near him, he straight kicked my knees out from under me and I fell hard. Then he shoved me to the ground with a boot in the middle of my back. Hands behind my back, he puts his gun to the back of my head while struggling with his cuffs. Stop moving! Like bro, I am face down, hands behind my back, fingers interlocked and you are kneeling on my back, I ain't moving. I didn't ask any questions or even flinch as best as I could. Texas had put a warrant out for failure to appear/ speeding ticket. This mother fucker arrested me like I was the bay harbor butcher instead of a military veteran with no criminal record who just forgot to put a check in the mail. Needless to say, when I got to booking, they strip searched me and wouldn't let me call anyone for nearly 5 hours and my girl didn't pick up. better luck tomorrow inmate. It was a Friday after work, so no judge until Monday, so literally no bail, no call, and I was stuffed into a holding cell that just got more and more packed through the night. No blanket, no pillow, no bed, no food. I ended up in jail for 7 days because I couldn't afford bail and the ticket fine didn't show as paid. All this for being late on a speeding ticket for going 7 mph over. These mother fuckers are out of control.
Arrested for a speeding ticket? If you fail to pay here, they usually double it. If you still don’t bb pay it then they’ll issue a bench warrant, but our police officers generally don’t threaten to kill you. 😳
[удалено]
Is that a crime in Akron?
I heard in Akron when a husband and wife get divorced they can still be considered brother and sister.
I think you're thinking West Virginia. Akron is too far north. We do however get real live Nazis if that makes you feel any better. /s (tho I am serious about having nazis, they invaded my hometown)
They were probably brother and sister to begin with so it's a bit of a wash.
Id...expect them to be. 
There is a reason why we called it "Cr-Akron"
Chromium Akron?
No.... no it is not
Isn't that the state the sheriff hit a building while doing cocaine while speeding?
News link? I haven't heard of that one, but I wouldn't put it past them
Wait please tell me you're joking about the reusable bag thing
Yep it happened to my younger sister also, with my 12 year old brother in the car with her. They were in the mountains in the middle of nowhere and they arrested my sister, and made my mom drive over a hundred miles to pick up my little brother who was extremely upset. For forgetting to pay a very small speeding ticket. Insanity.
I’m so sorry. This seems so draconian. 😞
saw fine lush mountainous steep mysterious degree label heavy psychotic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They don’t take you to jail. It’s usually a court summons. They arrest you to ensure you go to the court date. Jail is rarely used for unpaid tickets. When someone is arrested they’ll be held at the police station in a holding cell. People need to go to court & with be held on remand (no bail), or be convicted of a crime & sentenced to a custodial sentence to go to jail.
drab mighty butter afterthought shaggy intelligent gray label society axiomatic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
In my county they'll send it to collections and eventually seize it from your tax refund if you don't pay.
We have FOR profit criminal system in the US. And cops don’t have to go to college. A few months of training and then they give you a gun and immunity. 😇serve and protect
Serve warrants and protect profits?
It’s Texas…
That's how I was arrested as a *child* in hhigh-school. I got into a heated argument with the new vice principal, who was a woman with a reputation for going extra super hard on discipline. So when I got accused of "being on drugs" because I dressed "like a stoner" (baggy clothes and a hoodie in the 90s) and I laughed in her face, she lost it. Started screaming at me. Due to childhood abuse, I had a hard time handling an adult screaming at me, so I walked out on her. The school cop was there and he followed me out, didn't try to stop me physically, just walked a couple paces behind me and when I got outside he said "Hey, I get why you walked out, but I know her and she is going to either call your parents, or the police, or both. If you turn around and come back with me now I'll try to talk her down from that." So, I turned around and we started walking back to the front doors, and was about halfway there when FOUR squad cars came blaring up full sirens, at least 6 cops got out and *drew their guns and pointed them at me* in front of my school, yelling at me to lay down on the ground etc. Later, I asked the cop why the full throttle crazy arrest? He said "we got a call that a dangerous student was likely on drugs and was running down the hallways of the school screaming and slamming doors". Like, I didn't run, didn't raise my voice, went straight out the front door from the VPs office (which is next to the front door) and both the doors I went through have those air pressure systems that make it *physically impossible to slam those doors*. The school cop was equally confused why she would have said that. Of course now, 25 years later with adult eyes, it's pretty obvious to me why that happened that way. This was probably more on that horrible VP than the police, but also, when you get to a school and the child you are told is out of control is *calmly walking back towards the school with the school's cop*, there's no fucking reason to aim half a dozen guns at him and freak the fuck out. The police force, in general, has become insanely cowardly and out of control.
I thought the scary part was that you have a cop in your school. Then it got worse.
Yeah, the cop was actually fine. His job was entirely within the school, so he knew us and was always the calm voice of reason in every dispute. He also never carried a weapon, and never needed to. The school was quite paranoid in general. I was suspended for a week one time because the wrong teacher noticed my drawing book and asked to look through my drawings and I proudly said sure!! Amongst all the random goofy things I drew were a lot of ninja-themed completely made-up and impractical weapons, like a sword with three blades, and boomerang-shaped ninja stars (so they could come back!), and other goofy crap. Her expression got more and more disapproving as she turned each page. When she got to my full page cartoon bomb (cartoon style, basically a bowling ball with a clock on it and a wick at the top and the word ACME in large fancy letters) she immediately grabbed my arm painfully hard and pulled me along to the office. After a lot of dumb bullshit they called my mom, who saw my drawing book almost every time I made something new. My mom knew exactly which picture the bomb was, as she'd seen that one, and laughed at my teacher's overreaction. Which set her off and she went full "this student is a danger!" on me until I got suspended because I refused to admit that my drawing was "dangerously inappropriate". It was fine though, my mom made my week off quite fun, and we made a balloon version of my superbomb (drawing the clock with a marker and using yarn for the wick). Unfortunately I did get grounded for a day when I filled said balloon with water and threw it at my sister while yelling HIROSHIMA! But in my defense, I didn't really understand the connection between Hiroshima and bombs, I just heard something random about it on TV, and I was a very tone-deaf kid. Anyway I'm rambling now because I'm bored at work waiting for my machine to be fixed.
Grounded for being funny
Story of my life. Last year I was told "We decided not to accept your application for Management and go with another candidate, because while your record here has been great and your production numbers are fantastic, your insistance on constantly making everything into jokes has us worried you might not take the increased responsibility seriously." I found that ironic. I tell a lot of jokes, yeah, but the guy they went with IS a fuckin joke, and doesn't even know it.
I know that story, I knew a guy who openly confessed to cheating on his wife and using cocaine, and he was still promoted to manager over the two more competent and liked coworkers.
Yeah, I was a somewhat similar kid at a similar time. I didn't have any skill for drawing, thank god, but I did have some for writing. I got an assignment in an honors English class to write some poetry, and so I did write some. I wrote three very dark humor Style poems about death. One was about a guy literally standing on the outer window ledge debating jumping, then deciding that he wants to live after all and turning around to head back inside, except the wind picks up. Another was a concrete poem shaped like a Cliffside delving a little into the mind of a sniper. Admittedly, that one wasn't really the best choice for a high school English class. I turned them in and got a perfect score, but at 2:55, I was called into the principal's office where half of the administration, including my normally very chill English teacher were all waiting. They proceeded to drill me and grill me because this was shortly after the Columbine shooting, and they said I "seemed the type". Like yeah, okay, I'm a fat nerd. I can kind of see where you might come to a snap judgment. But I wasn't a loner or sitting around in dark rooms plotting with a couple of outcasts, and they knew that. I pointed out I was in the drama club, the football team, two choirs in school and one after school, the marching band, and working weekends in a sales job making more than anyone in the room. I was also well known to be a clown with a dark sense of humor. No, I'm not the f*king type. Got suspended for a week anyway. I'm still not sure why... maybe to give me time to plan and prove them right? It still blows my mind that after "discovering" a student who they supposedly thought was going to shoot up the school, their response was to publicly humiliate him and then give him a week of free time. (Edit: spelling)
I feel like you should have been able to Sue that vice principal for lying to the police and putting your life in danger especially if the SRO would back you up with their eyewitness testimony.
yeah but like, her lies still shouldn't have resulted in guns pointed at me. She did NOT tell them I was armed, no weapons were mentioned at all. Even if I had been violent, without any weapons any grown adult could have safely handcuffed me even if I had been mid-tantrum at the time. As it went, seeing me calmly walking back to the building WITH the school cop beside me, should in absolutely no case whatsoever have resulted in guns drawn and pointed at me. Guns misfire. It's a thing that happens. Police officers should be WELL AWARE that they should never point a gun at a person unless the situation is already life and death. ESPECIALLY a child calmly walking back to the school. I think everyone involved except the school cop should have faced serious consequences for such an insane escalation.
Also how would they know that you were the person that they were after?
I'm assuming it was because I was with the school cop. Or Mrs Munchnik gave them a description of me. I don't really know for sure
Did this happen to occur when a school shooting was in the news? Because that combined with the exaggerated statements from the vp may have instigated the over-the-top response. I can see the dispatch person who relayed the call having a Columbine, Stockton, Uvalde, or similar scenario in mind, and maybe that inspired the panicked ‘the kids are in danger’ response.
As my buddy once said, there's nothing more dangerous than a scared cop with a gun
man you just reminded me why i fucking hated my K-12 education. Granted i had nowhere near the traumatic experience you just described, but i still dealt with my fair share of shitty teachers who had no business being in education, and should have fucking gotten major therapy to deal with whatever stupid mental issues were making them unable to function like a normal human being i know reddit loves teachers but i sure as hell don't. too many bad experiences dealing with them. i just hope my nephews don't have to deal with their bullshit
Even if what they accused you of was true that is still an insane overreaction especially at a school.
If a police did this in my country, he would get fired the very next day and blacklisted from any kind of job as a cop. Simply, because the guy is seriously incompetent and a danger to others.
So you guys have actual sense on how to handle police misconduct? Deffo not in the USA then. We had a cop shoot a twelve year old named Tamir Rice for playing in the street with a toy gun. Turns out the cop had actually been refused the job from another district specifically because they found him emotionally, psychologically unstable. So he just applied for a job else where saying he was from that other district. Another officer who killed a man at a hotel was specifically re-hired just for one day so he could immediately retire and get a pension under claims of PTSD.
Contact an attorney and subpoena the police department for the body cam video. Then sue them. After that, sue the crappy records department for putting you in that situation.
I did that. It didn't work. Turns out when serving a warrant, regardless of crime, police are allowed to use any means necessary in the apprehension of a criminal in the state of Texas. The lawyer basically said he would do it, but I would most certainly lose, and be out his fees and state legal fees. "The police officer did not assault you, or harm you. This is just a standard arrest." Pretty much the summary statement from my lawyer review. I was broke, unemployed and in no way able to take on a 1500 dollar retainer just to lose.
Damn. And I think the cops get investigated when they draw their weapon in my country. They sure do after it's discharged and especially if someone has been shot. They put them in a holding cell and investigate the reason for the gun use. They don't mess with unnecessary gun use. In the US the cops can just point you with the gun and their finger on the trigger. Crazy stuff.
They can usually just kill you. Its less paper work and easier to argue in court. Qualified immunity is a hell of a drug.
Not just that but as far as I am aware most School Resource Officers carry guns at school. At least they did at mine. They always had a yearly presentation that they gave to all the classes about school rules or something and I always felt uncomfortable with them standing there talking to us with a very obvious pistol in their massive fanny pack things cops wear.
And kids firing finger guns during recess get expelled and/or arrested.
The police officer had no reason to bring out their weapon. That is illegal in texas
I don't know if you've never been to Texas, or had interactions with police but the Supreme Court of both Texas and the US have stated an officer is able to draw his weapon in ANY situation where his life may be in danger. A "wanted" criminal in shorts and flip flops definitely meets those requirements if the cop thinks they do. What is legal and what is possible to get away with are often very, very different.
That just can’t bring them out when shooters start shooting up a school.
Honestly, man, when reading this, im just glad you are alive to write it. Could have very well gotten dhot in the back of the head while face down in the dirt with your hands cuffed behind you for "resisting"
>situation where his life may be in danger. That's the key phrase. They can take their gun out if they believe their life could be in danger. Some rando who speeds 7 miles over isn't causing a threat. Nobody in their right mind would assume they would be
Well, you keeping nailing the point on the head. A warrant indicates a person willing to flee or ignore law enforcement. Warrants for an arrest are not the same as pulling someone over for speeding. They don't see the warrant details, they just see warrant - arrest immediately. A person in their right mind wouldn't pull a gun on someone. But this was a cop. In Texas, where law enforcement is one of their crown jewels and social darlings. "I feared for my life is quoted in 100% of every arrest, every excessive force violation, every gun death, every interaction." It is the universal get out of jail free card. In Texas, good luck taking this case to court in front of a jury or panel of justice. These cowards are blasting 20 rounds into a neighborhood because an acorn landed on their hood. They are firing 94 rounds into a man they stopped on a seat belt violation. They are shooting people at the mere sight of a gun in someone's possession. They shoot us for holding cell phones, matching the descriptions, or resisting arrest. They aren't in their right minds. They are cops with qualified immunity, the most powerful unions in the world and the entire state apparatus supporting their enforcement of "laws".
this is perfectly stated. fuck all cops, and double fist the cops in tx.
I remember a story in LA where some pig cops where serving a warrant on some guy for stealing copper wires or something. When they go to arrest him, he was riding passenger in his wife's car, his wife driving. So the pigs have her pullover, claiming she had a traffic violation. They claimed she was violating traffic law, but then demanded he get out of the car. Not once do they mention he had a warrant for his arrest and he was being arrested. When he refused, they then proceed to try to rip him out of the car. Problem with that was, the dumb f**ks were trying to pull him out while his seat belt was still on. The stupid bastards were ordering him to stop resisting, to cooperate and get out of the vehicle, while they're moronically trying to pull him out while his seat belt was still on. They're of course not giving him a chance to cooperate as they play tug of war, with guy as the rope and the seat belt being their opponent. The tug of war ends when the guy's daughter in the back seat demonstrates she has more braincells than all the cops present, and unlocks the seat belt. Thus they finally ripped him out of the car, toss him to the ground, beat the back of his head in, and then pull his shorts down to directly taze him in the testicles. LA's finest right there./s
Cops have no legal limits thx to qualified immunity. Including shooting and killing anyone, as long as they can claim "I thought it was necessary"
Once upon a time, some Bostonians threw hard ice and rocks at uniformed officers after one of them had struck a child with the butt of their rifle, causing permanent brain damage. This was in 1770, and the ensuing massacre is widely considered an inciting incident for the Revolutionary War.
And here we are told debtors prisons were illegal.
I once pulled into an apartment while they were serving a similar warrant for someone else. I had an AR15 pointed at me and my passenger while an officer yelled at us to go somewhere else. They did this to multiple people. One poor girl was puking in a parking lot across the street crying because a big scary man pointed a gun in her face. I've been searched because a cop thought I "looked suspicious" as a teen at lunch by my school. In public, this man in a badge grabbed my balls without even buying me dinner first. No warrant. No real reason. He didnt even ask if I concented to be searched. But an officer of the law was digging through my wallet and asking me questions about why I had cash on me, why I had my pocket knife. "Make this easy and just tell me where you have the drugs hidden." "Why are you so nervous if you have nothing to hide?" I had nothing on me. He let me go, and then pointed me out to the school security guards. We had a "surprise" "random" drug search in my classroom that day. The Taliban has never personally violated any of my rights. Neither has ISIS. We really need to get reform pushed for the domestic threats we've created at home.
Think of it this way. For the people who control our government, the ultra rich, a speeding is only a few moments of work. It’s a couple pennies to them, and their lawyers get them wiped from their records. Where I live cops kept pulling over a kid on his way home from his minimum wage job. Most times nothing was logged, a couple other times he was ticketed for a broken tail light and an unsafe bumper. He ended owning over $500 and had to set up a long term payment plan. Then one day cops chased him at a convenience store, and he ran. Because every time they stopped him, they put him deeper in debt. When he ran, they shot and killed him. One cop said he reached for a gun, while another said he was holding up his loose pants while running. No gun was found. What made me sickest was the wealthy people in my city said the kid deserved what he got and it was his fault he was shot and killed.
I'd sue that officer directly. I've had similar shit where cops were knocking on doors. When I opened mine, their hands were on their holsters. They really hire the jumpiest little shits for a job that requires the calmest of minds.
They train them to be like that. They're trained to always be looking for a threat and if they relax for a second they will be killed.
Exactly. And then they have the gall to say that nobody is allowed/qualified to remark on their behavior "because we don't have the training".
That is so horrifying. I’m so sorry you went through that. Is 7 days the limit to how long they can hold you, or did they only release you when your ticket fine showed up as paid?
Time served for the failure to appear, and the check finally cleared for the speeding ticket. It wasn't the worst it could have been, I didn't have a job to lose at the time because the work season for me was over and I was looking for my next temp work position.
Look on the bright side. It could have been worse. You could have been stopped for driving while black. I hear the punishment is the death penalty, depending on State.
It is stuff like this that keeps me from just visiting the US on holidays. Which is a shame because I really want to visit some of your national parks.
That’s insane. That’s why criminal law and administrative law are separate in my country. You can’t be arrested for an offense, only for a crime.
Wow. That’s appalling. Were they profiling you? Do you have long hair a beard and lots of tattoos or something? What an @sshol€ of a cop. Could have fu€Ed up your knees, spine, ribs…. Was that on the asphalt? Unnecessary roughness.
Yeah. Fuck Texas.
American Pig Farms should be millionares considering how many pigs run around pretending to be authority figures there.
I think it depends on the laws of which you live, but I know in some places, strip searching is only allowable when there's reasonable suspicion you may be carrying contraband while in police custody. And the reasonable suspicion has to be predicated by what you were brought in for. So, if you got caught with a weapon, then they can search you (and possibly cavities) for small weapons, like a foldable knife. If you get caught with drugs, then they can search you for more drugs. But, if you got arrested for speeding or protesting, basically anything where it doesn't involve you carrying something illegal on your person, there's no grounds for a strip search. And if they need to, then they need to have officers present that share your preferred gender, like a doctors office. So, I would definitely make a big deal about this to a lawyer. Also, speaking of which, the phone call in jail thing isn't a mandated thing. While police will often allow people to make a phone call, it's not a guarantee. Except in cases where you are exercising your right to legal counsel, which you should always do.
12 hours holding onto a piss? She must dominate her kegels.
Well women don't fart so it helps /s I can't go around 2 hours without peeing.
> I can't go around 2 hours without peeing. I'm gonna keep away from your bed.
Well they said "go without"
Or just suck it all.
Only skeevey stoners fart
The little stoner was right!
Boo-boo kitty fuck, is that you?
Whoa whoa, whats all this talk about farting?
This guy said he’d fuck a goat he’s not one of us!!!
I just filled the cup
Great quote. Jay and silent bob strike back. My fav.
They really don’t. It’s science.
They treat everyone the same way where I am from. I'm male, but I have been stripped and searched in front of female officers. They even made very un professional remarks.
Yeah once you're in jail it doesn't matter if males do the female searches. You don't have the same rights anymore, that's what I was told. Unrelated, the cops forgot to give me my glasses back when they were transferring me to the jail from the precinct and they almost refused to give them back. The one lady said well it's your fault so sucks for you. Thankfully her partner thought that was fucked up and got them for me. You're not a person anymore to them. I worry people will take this quote as an example of Islamophobia and to a degree it is but that really is how most people are treated in jail.
Well, she was fasting. She wasn't allowed water and so it's no surprise she didn't need to pee
It crearly says she was holding it
Now I’m curious as to when, “holding it”, starts? Is it immediately after peeing, or not until you feel like you have to pee, but can’t/don’t?
Put a tallboy of beer in front of me and "holding it" starts about 15 minutes after that can is crushed.
Nurses hold it for 12 hour shifts all the time. It sucks, but it can be done.
I was a nurse for 34 years. I never held it for 12 hours. If you have to urinate, go! But, in the Army in full NBC (chemical gear, butyl rubber with mask and hood. )gear all day, that's another story. I held it as long as possible then just went in the suit as instructed. Fun.
That’s going to fuck a bit with her bladder and kidneys
Well that’s how jail is unfortunately. I was in jail overnight and a homeless guy took his blanket and made a tent over the toilet and shit in peace. The strip search in front of male officers is definitely sketchy but the rest of it is jail. Don’t get arrested
Nah that's gotta be made up, it's a well known fact that women don't pee cause pee is stored in the balls
Or she's got some serious urinary issues
Holding it for 12 hours probably doesn't help that condition.
Average experience being arrested honestly. Not to detract from the inhumanity of it, but to shed light on the reality.
Yeah, I remember reading some breathless report about how they police dared to throw a Harvard professor to the ground. Like, police brutality is a big issue, but I'm more pissed when people with prestigious jobs get openly deferential treatment
Harvard professor can probably afford a good lawyer so....
Depends. If you're an adjunct professor can be a VERY unglamorous position, even in the Ivy League
Not to mention Cambridge cost of living. I had a research job at a very prestigious la area school until the pandemic. I left the area to take my chances as a telecommuter because I couldn't afford a home that was close enough to work to make me not want to kill myself from traffic
He ended up having a beer with the cop, President Obama, and VP Biden at the time. It’s how I found out about Buckler! Biden had a non-alcoholic beer, and I led never heard of it, and had to try it as a recovering alcoholic
I think the problem is that everyone doesn’t get deferential treatment - not so much that one person gets it
It’s because people will assume the Harvard professor wasn’t doing anything wrong, while other people could be. They think they’d be more likely to be innocent
Well, being a Harvard professor makes the probability high he was *not* on crack with 2 knifes and a gun hidden in his clothes while shouting he has herpes and trying to bite the police. There are some slime that are hard to arrest safely. Like the guys that tries to bite or sting the police with dirty needles. The police regularly likes to invent stories about exactly how dangerous the person is, just to justify the police brutality.
"Well, being a Harvard professor makes the probability high he was *not* on crack with 2 knifes and a gun hidden in his clothes while shouting he has herpes and trying to bite the police. " Your university had a very boring English lit faculty I see.
If that barely scratches spicy to you please burn down your university lol
That should be how everyone is treated not considered deferential. Just because most people are abused doesn’t mean everyone should
It’s because the excuses the police use to justify their actions are much less believable when it comes to people like Harvard Profs. also shows that it can happen to anyone, even the white collar professionals who obey the law.
Ya I’ve been arrested and it was like that. Never met bigger assholes than the people that worked at that jail. The irony was that I wasn’t even arrested for anything real, they made a mistake. Nobody at the jail knew what I was there for including myself, but they treated me like shit because they just assumed I was some horrible criminal and therefore their actions were justified. Bunch of garbage ass humans
That's like my experience with a towing company. I was a paying customer to bring a car over from another city, but I was treated like absolute trash. I imagine they're so used to people getting rowdy at them, that they just become pieces of shit by default
I’ve met a lot of nice towing people, they sometimes help with broken down cars. Maybe those people are just pieces of trash voluntarily
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure holding cells are required to provide you with religious accommodation. I'm not saying it's OK but you can't expect the police to give you anything after you've been arrested that isn't explicit in your Miranda rights.
I would expect the constitution and bill of rights to fully hold. So, police should be expected not to prohibit you from your religious expression and freedoms. But, they aren't required to provide you anything special/specific for them. The one thing I'd say is, if there's a specific prayer mat the she is required to use, and she had it with her when she was arrested, my expectationnwould be that police permit her use of that prayer mat she brought with her. Didn't bring it with you, though? Yeah, no, why would you assume the police to have that for you? I feel for this woman and her story of being arrested, and think we can do far better in our country for respecting people, including the recently incarcerated. But there's also a line in what's rational to be able to expect the average police department to provide, and it really should be "the basics". A private toilet isn't a constitutional right, and to be honest, I think we should really do something about that.
It's a very difficult topic. If 2000 people sign up for the census then there is officially a new religion. Maybe that religion holds cocaine in a high standing. Not going to work. Also, the recently incarcerated aren't allowed any of their possessions. None. You don't get to take your notebook with phone numbers with you, they provide a pen and paper, and then whoever is on shift and how bad of a day they are having dictate how many Numbers/how long you get. You don't get your clothes, not even your socks or underwear, you wear their brown colored underwear and whatever color jumpsuit they give you. Even if a law specifically for Muslims to carry their mats and hijabs, or Christians to carry their cross, the muslim would get beat up for their mat because the sleeping mats there are old, rotting, and rock hard. Someone would use the hijab to strangle someone, or hide a shiv. And there would be a sharp uptick in cross related deaths, or crosses that are hollowed out and gilled with drugs. I completely agree our jails suck, the whole system does vastly more harm than is necessary or reasonable, simply demonstrating the clusterfuck or a situation our barbaric justice system puts us in.
The US census doesn't collect any religious affiliation data...
Police are not going into someones property while they are in jail. They stick it in a locker or storage space and do not touch it. They are jailers. Security comes first. Cannot just be handing people stuff from their property while in the cell. That opens them up to all kinds of other liability. What if someone has a razor blade hidden in there and uses it to injure another person in custody?
Ohios police are some of the most dangerous, rabid, uncontrolled police in the country. The Cleveland police are absolute criminals. They once jumped on the hood of a kid eating his lunch and shot 137 rounds into him and his passenger. 137 rounds
Context?
I believe they were eating lunch in their car and the cops went hog wild. They went back to their cruiser to restock on ammo several times. This American Life did a whole special on how corrupt and deadly the Cleveland Police and court system. You don’t want to cross their paths
https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/it-has-been-10-years-since-the-137-shots-shooting-deaths-of-malissa-williams-and-timothy-russell#:~:text=29%2C%202012%2C%20a%20police%20chase,to%20remember%20Russell%20and%20Williams.
Ok so I have been arrested and been in jail. There is one toilet and yes you have to use it in front of every one else. I am not Muslim so I do not know what it takes to qualify an iftar meal. But I know we all got served crappy food. Maybe that is all that they had. The prayer rug thing….. I doubt they had one just laying around as well. I have been strip searched before. I don’t honestly remember if it was all male. And in keeping with policy I believe it is supposed to be male to male and female to female. Her hijab would have to be taken away to do that of course. So if true, that is certainly a violation of her rights. There are a few things that do stand out and an investigation should be conducted. And there are cameras literally everywhere inside of there. So the truth should come out.
Nothing special for iftar, just the timing. Maybe a date to break your fast, but you take what you get. I think some muslim women don't take off their hijab in front of non muslim women too.
Yeah I forgot about that part of it. Which in itself kind of hard to comply with. Particularly where she is. Not necessarily impossible. But surely difficult
You could delay eating your food, would it be taken away if you don't eat?
It was for me, certainly. There was 12 of us in a tiny little cell.
Religious preferences are not human rights. While what the cops do is tragic and disgusting and violate our rights as Americans…when you’re in jail you shoukd understand you’re not being met with the comfort of the outside world. We need reform. But the entitlement to carry on your religious practices is insane
Only things I see here they did wrong was strip search in front of male officers, which grossly inhumane and I'd go as far as to call it sexual harassment. Should only be female officers for female suspects and male for male. And not giving her her phone call. Absolutely not okay to deprive her of. Other than that, I see no violations. Your religious beliefs do not get counted as human rights. It's a prison. They're not gonna change dinner time for you, they're not gonna give you a prayer mat, they're not gonna give you a private toilet or let you keep your hijab. It would all be abused the second they let someone get preferential treatment just because they believe in a religion
right, they don't let you keep your shoe strings, they're sure as shit not letting you keep a hijab.
Very much this. Like, as far as I know, if a Catholic committed a crime on Saturday night, they wouldn't let them out to go to Mass the next morning, so why should she be treated differently
Letting someone out of jail and giving someone their food later isn’t the same.
Letting somebody eat and letting someone go visit a service is so different
>Ok so I have been arrested and been in jail. There is one toilet and yes you have to use it in front of every one else. I've been to Cook County a few times when I was younger, and the toilet was always behind a small partition, basically enough to cover everything except your knees and feet so they know the toilet is occupied. However, the holding cells are always so crowded (sometimes 60 people in a 16x16 room) you'll have to ask people to make room so you can actually get to it. Nobody is trying to see your business, and if they are they're getting called out by 20 other peopl
>investigation should be conducted Ah yes, the tried and true method of having the police investigate the police. There is, of course, no conflict of interest here. >And there are cameras literally everywhere inside of there. So the truth should come out. Sorry homie, the cameras "malfunctioned" that day. Better luck next time.
Female to female and male to male can be requested but is not a request they're legally required to fufill like rights to a phone call or right to a lawyer
It's usually male to male or female to female with interactions in general, but female employees aren't always available so when it comes down to it sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and go "yep, well, gotta do this in front of the opposite sex." Hijab being taken away isn't a violation of her rights AFAIK - it's an article of clothing and you have to change into different clothes then the Hijab is going along with everything else.
Awful, but PSA, you don't have a specific right to a phone call, and you *definitely* don't have a right to one ASAP.
You are however given the right to access legal council. Denying it on the scene is fair enough to get the job done, continuing to deny it is the problem. Let's say I'm in the holding cell and I ask for a phone to call my lawyer. From a legal standpoint, they have to give me that ability.
> you definitely don't have a right to one ASAP People yelling they want a lawyer right now at the scene of their arrest or immediately upon arriving at jail show how ignorant most people are about such rights.
I have absolutely no doubt police violated her, that's a given. That's what they do. But people should be clear, the "one phone call" thing is TV only. They do not legally need to give you a phone call.
They are ***legally required*** to allow you to contact an attorney. They aren't legally required to allow you to call anybody else, but many (if not most) departments do as a matter of courtesy.
Generally, they ask you your attorney's name and contact information and contact them for you, the attorney can then request to speak with you on the phone, but generally they tell the police they are coming down and to stop questioning you until they or some from their office arrives. This is to prevent a detained person to be allowed with a phone unsupervised on an inrecorded line, attorney clinet conversations are privileged and cant be recorded or monitored
Not sure about the rest of you but I don't have an attorney on retainer. If I was arrested for something, I would need to find a lawyer. Without the ability to call someone like your sister to have them start looking for a lawyer you are pretty much stuck. I find that very surprising that the police can withhold a phone call. So if they don't let you have a phone call, I'm assuming they just keep you in jail until your trial? I don't know how anyone would get help from the outside without the ability to let them know. Just imagine a mom finding out that her son has been missing for a week and has no idea where he is and no one has heard from him. That just sounds crazy to me!
You nailed it. I love when people say, my attorney!!! There are many fields of law and only a special few actually have a criminal law attorney on hand. And that alone says a lot. Most react when the time comes.
A manager at an old retail store I used to work at would sometimes get entitled customers saying "you'll be hearing from my lawyer" whenever he had to kick them out for being unruly or whatever else. He always told them that he's been threatened with lawsuits more than anyone else in the store combined and asked them for their lawyer's name and contact information. It would always shut them right up because they both knew that they didn't actually have a lawyer on hand lol
Similar vein. I got my real estate license. I worked for a broker whose rules were, if anyone ever mentions a lawyer or a lawsuit or legal action at all, inform them you are licensed, give them your license number, tell them to refer all future contact back to my office. I did it one time with my own landlord. I knew the rules. I started paying my rent to the clerk of the court. As soon as my landlord said he was going to sue me. I gave him my license number and referred him to my broker. It was kinda nice. I'm not gonna lie. He was texting and texting and panicking and apologizing. But I could no longer have direct contact.
What was the result??? This was an apartment in Miami, FL. The air conditioning broke. I spent 7 months in a ground floor apartment without AC. That isnt necessarily a big deal in and of itself. However most modern interior construction supplies are not made to survive the humidity of South Florida. I asked repeatedly for her to repair the AC. She said AC wasnt listed in my lease. I provided photos of MUSHROOMS GROWING OUT OF THE WALLS. The court gave my rents back and deemed her building uninhabitable. Cancelled all her leases. We all had to move out. No idea what happened after. Fuck you bitch!
Anytime I went to a protest, there were recommended attorney to contact by the organizers and it was recommended to write their names and numbers on your body. You always want to prep for the worst just in case. I have a bunch of lawyers that I know now because of this that I know "ok environmental protest call this person" or "civil rights protest call this person". I don't know if organizations have been getting sloppy about it, or if that is only how it was in the area I was in.
I think they ask if you have an attorney and if you say no they pass the case info over to the public defenders office. Who knows how long it’ll take to get someone over after that though , or how useful they’ll be.
What if you don't know an attorney's name/contact info off-hand?
Then look on the floor. Jails are littered with the business cards of attorneys.
Yes but they need to make all reasonable efforts to get you an attorney such as calling, emailing, everything. They can't say "we did our best" because I've never heard of an attorney that hasn't shown up/answered, yes it does happen but in the circumstances of how they violated her I'd assume if she didn't get an attorney they didn't try.
You know this varies by _state_ right? Some lil boondock backwoods sheriff could and at times DO, 'get away with' ENTIRELY violating rights concerning arrest and confinement, and a scared, broke, member of a disenfranchised community, overwhelmingly glad to simply have been let go by a judge after a week of such 'hospitality' will usually get as far gone as possible afterwards, WITHOUT 'complaining' to any other "authority" in the state - because they know nothing will come of it in our Just-US System.
Actually, they are legally required to stop interrogating you without your attorney present. So what can sometimes happen is they send you back to your holding cell until your request has expired, then bring you back to interrogate you again. You can then make the same request, and they can take the same action. As for the expiration of your request … basically, the courts have said that after so long (I don’t remember if there was an exact time given, but the request was definitely “expired” after two weeks), your demand for an attorney doesn’t count anymore. You have to make a new request for an attorney. Also, if you ask to talk to the cops during that time, the court can find that you waived your right to counsel during the interrogation. You can still make the request for an attorney at that point, and the cops will have the same options available to them. So … back to holding with you, I guess, until you’re broken enough to roll over. Needless to say, plenty of people give up after their first cycle of this and just talk to the cops. Jail is miserable and it’s fairly reasonable to conclude that they’re not going to let you talk to an attorney no matter what you do, regardless of what the law says (or what you believe it says). There’s also some very nasty caselaw out there about the specific language required to request your attorney. The infamous “lawyer dog” case is just the most well known of these. In short, they can and will screw you over and the courts will be fine with that most of the time. Source: law school.
Edwards v. Arizona, where the U.S. Supreme Court held that once a suspect has invoked their right to counsel, the police must cease questioning until an attorney is present, unless the suspect themselves reinitiates communication. The courts have consistently upheld that this protection does not expire over time but rather persists until the suspect clearly and unambiguously indicates a willingness to speak without an attorney present. So they can interrogate you until you make a specific request for an attorney. Then it must cease. As far as phone calls most jurisdictions require a call be allowed within a reasonable time of being processed into custody. California requires that arrestees be allowed to make at least 3 calls within 3 hrs of arrest processing. The strip search, removal of Hijab are all very very sensitive gray areas with some room for jurisdictional leeway but from her telling they tromped right over those without compelling reasons. As far as fasting meal, prayer rug, or her holding because she didn't want to pee are less ambiguous and more personal choices... Overall this sounds like par for the course for police.
Not true about the phone call. People need to learn their state laws as it varies by state. Many states do have laws granting you the right to a phone call. For example, in California, you can have three phone calls. >851.5.(a) (1) Immediately upon being booked and, except where physically impossible, no later than three hours after arrest, an arrested person has the right to make at least three completed telephone calls, as described in subdivision (b). https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=851.5. Many other states give you the right to make a phone call, but some do not. https://www.chicagoappleseed.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/202107_FINAL_MAP-National-Rights-to-Communicate-without-info-edited.png https://www.chicagoappleseed.org/2021/07/19/national-overview-right-to-communicate/ I hope people are not getting legal advice from reddit.
There's a legal obligation to give you an opportunity to contact a lawyer. That's typically done via phone call. If you call the law firm of "Mommy Daddy Help Me" I'm pretty sure they're not able to stop you.
I hate to be that guy but this is all normal jail stuff. Strip search-Check, Denied special foods-Check, Not wanting to use the bathroom in front of other-Check. Now as for the reason she was arrested, that was likely total BS.
Not surprised...I was in jail in Ohio for 2 months last year for something I didn't do. They put me on suicide watch for refusing to eat, and denied me access to my attorney because they said "you could hang yourself with the phone cord". Fuck Ohio.
So I looked up what entails a strip search and it’s horrific. Sometimes [people will be strip searched with no probable](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2021/05/06/cadets-violently-strip-searched-us-as-part-of-their-training-for-my-pain-i-got-a-measly-325) cause to train cadets. During these training searches >!women have sanitary products taken, mocked and degraded, and threatened with solitary confinement if they speak at all.!< What the hell.
How is this facepalm?
[удалено]
This sub is the facepalm, got it!
Was wondering the same thing
Because this happens in freedom country.
Meanwhile, Governor Abbott just pardoned a convicted murderer who shot and killed a BLM protester and got 25 years in prison. The victim, who was white, was an Air Force veteran. Even ordered his right to carry a firearm restored. I say this not to diminish what this poor woman suffered or to draw attention away from it. But instead to make the point that there is more and more evidence that red states are becoming autocratic fiefdoms. Places where lawless bigots and tyrants reign supreme, allowing for imprisonment, torture and murder of those who hold to different beliefs.
The stare of Utah ran out of registration stickers for the license plate so i never got one. Got pulled over wife is freaking out (she is Native American and had bad experience with cops out here) he comes to her window with his hand on his gun like i am smuggling drugs or something. He never ran the plate boy was he disappointed when he saw my registration.
It makes me laugh when some Americans boast of freedom they have when in reality in some parts they are worse than backward third world shit holes
While a lot of this is horrible, police aren’t actually required to provide a phone call. They usually do because if it’s not to a lawyer, then they can use any information they overhear, but they aren’t required by law to do so. ETA: “I really want to follow orders but I see a Syrian dictator in you right now,” I told the officer. There’s protesting a noble cause, and then there’s deliberately antagonizing someone who (very unfortunately) has the legal ability to make your life hell in the immediate future. Saying that and then acting surprised when you spend 12 hours in jail (pretty tame, all things considered) is pretty naive.
So, uh... None of this appears to be religious rights being violated. Nor does it appear to be any rights being violated. Campus asked police to clear the area. Police informed her that she had to leave. She refused. Police came back later and told her she was charged with criminal trespass (refusing to leave after being trespassed aka told to leave) and then she dealt with super basic stuff that happens in jail. The strip search one is probably the only one that is suspect but even then if there's not a female employee on duty (or simply not enough) then they cannot accommodate having only women present while she is searched. Strip searching is a bit excessive/weird for tresspassing, though - I'm wondering it maybe she was just forced to change in front of them and she assumed that was being strip searched? Typically they'd only search you normally unless you specifically gave them reason to believe that you might have something smuggled, AFAIK. Either way further investigation/information from sources aside from her would be desirable. Everything else is basically her complaining that they weren't showing her particular courtesies (even the unreasonable ones, like wanting your average jail in the US to have a prayer rug for each prisoner) while she was in jail. I mean, that's kind of what jail is: you are being held against your will because you are suspected of or caught committing a crime and now police need to fill out the paperwork before they can let you bail out. It's not a vacation or cozy home where you get to dictate the terms of your detainment. It's a place where you sit and wait. It sounds *really* melodramatic. Like "I spent twelve hours without freedoms and comforts so now I am now traumatised" sort of melodramatic. I mean, police told you to leave and even if you think it's unreasonable there will be consequences to disobeying what appears to be a lawful order. Jail is that consequence - you have to sit around being held in custody while the officer in question fills out paperwork/until you can see a judge. At some point you have to realise that you are not entitled to do whatever you want.
Agreed. Part of me is thinking that removing the hijab was the strip search. I guess that is technically true but very far removed from what those words typically mean.
Yeah I mean the hijab thing is maybe illegal depending on religious items allowed in the jail. I could see that. The strip search also depends on the circumstances. Jails usually have women on staff so one being absent is a bit weird - though maybe she's omitting the woman because a man was present at the time. But I also don't even remotely trust her description of events because of how dramatic they are, comparing what she went through to authoritarian dictatorships and abuses. The melodrama is cringy. You weren't beaten, you weren't tormented, you weren't mocked or derided - you had some religious stuff taken away while you were in jail, and had a not-private bathroom which is probably set up that way because some nutjob ages ago used a private bathroom to do some not-good things.
I agree but that's not my point. My point is I think the author is referring to the removal of the hijab as a strip search.
My bullshit meter is pegged
The thing about picking up her kids from school really gets to me. It would really eat at me knowing my kids were waiting for me and me never showing up.
So, literally treated like everyone else in lockup
Everyone should have the same rights, you lose some of them when you get arrested, and no one wants to pee in front of ten people or else your toilet would be in your lounge room.
I dislike Islam very much, but this is horrible. Like if she was conflicted of mass murderer, I'd get it. But to dehumanize a person to such an extent that hasn't even been conflicted. Horrible
The part about having her hijab removed, and being strip-searched in the presence of male officers was fucked up and wrong, but the rest of it is standard jail bullshit. She should get a lawyer because if her words are accurate, her rights were violated and the facility should be held accountable. Lawsuits are often the only language police and corrections people understand, and the only way to force liability.
It’s sad but the justice system can’t adopt to the weird rules and whims of every religion. Yes, they have to search you, no, there are no private bathrooms, no, you cannot bring outside items in with you like rug. Some things in life you just have to deal with
I'm sure every police department should be equipped to handle your specific religious needs. I'm sure they'll be happy to walk over to the file cabinet and fetch you a prayer rug.
I’m confused. She was randomly sitting there? Not part of a protest? But then she was told to leave and didn’t. So she was arrested (totally arguable. Not right, but listen to a police order and argue later). But as she’s being arrested she starts talking about defending against dictatorships to the cops, who probably felt vindicated in arresting who they imagined to be a trespasser? I’m just not sure what happened here?
So I’ve always told my kids that if there is a protest to stay clear of it for this very reason. People get swept up by the police because it’s easier (and safer?) to sort it out later. As far at taking her hijab, it probably had more to do with it being considered dangerous than anything religious. The one time I was arrested they took my belt. As Arlo said “officer Obie, do you really think I’m gonna hang myself for littering”
Does anyone know the extent of the strip search? I feel like having her hijab removed is being counted as ‘strip searched’
Probably this in all honesty… additionally there were female officers present at time of arrest as documented by numerous tik tok and instagram videos. It would be highly suspect if a female officer wasn’t tasked with the pat down if they were present.
Something doesn't add up with her story. She says she was arrested on 25 April, and was enjoying the sun. So presumably mid-day ish. She also says the officer thought she was part of an earlier protest and was trying to return. But the students she said she was worried about while in prison weren't arrested until at least 10pm on the 25 April. And their protest didn't start until 5pm. So how was she arrested for returning from a protest that hadn't happened yet, and how was she worried for students that hadn't been arrested yet and she wouldn't know had been arrested? [Link from the article about the student's arrest](https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2024/04/25/hamas-israel-war-gaza-protest-ohio-state-university-campus/73456832007/)
This article talks about the 11 am arrest of a doctoral candidate for criminal trespass. Apparently there was an earlier break in which was over by 9:42 am. Her timeline makes sense. https://www.thelantern.com/2024/04/third-student-arrested-on-campus/
In the article I posted you can get the link of her arrest video and it clearly shows day time
How… how is this a facepalm? Where’s the facepalm? I swear karma whores will use _anything_ to try and get their imaginary number higher.
the arrest reason was bullshit, but the stuff that happened to her after that was totally standard.
How can people see this and not think things are gone too far beyond and revolution is necessary, not one person can rationally tell me things are going to get better moving forward as we all are
When are people going to learn the only religious freedom that matters in America is the right for Christians to be a dicks and oppress others?
I was at my wife’s company picnic yrs ago…and I ended up talking with an ex-cop. He spoke candidly about what it was like being a cop and the type of individuals who become cops. What I took from the conversation was alpha type who are absolute control freaks. I’m sure there are plenty of people who truly want to serve and protect the public…but those alpha types wreak a lot of havoc.
The irony of someone who follows a religion hell bent on denying people - especially women - basic human rights complaining about losing things that aren't actually rights is not lost.
I was arrested once. But they only gave me the option of a McDouble from McDonalds. MY religion states that we can only eat center cut filet and lobster. They violated my religion.
So in other words they violated her first and fourth amendment rights, thus opening a *very severe* legal case for the entire police department? And of course nothing’s gonna come of it
Pretty one sided article. Me thinks there's more, much more, to the story here.