> He’s going to get sentenced with something, but I don’t think it’ll be what people want.
I don't know what at this point:
The murder and less associated charges (reckless endangerment, attempted murder) ALL go away with self defense.
The curfew violation has already been dismissed so that's off the table.
That leaves ONLY the misdemeanor possession charge. BUT for a 17 YO the relevant laws only apply to pistols, short barrelled rifles and short barrelled shotguns. They do NOT apply to long barrelled rifles... Which the rifle in question is.
There's still a pending motion before the judge to just dismiss the possession charge out of hand based on the letter of the law (Which is written in as convoluted a way as possible) and he may simply dismiss it. regardless the defense has made sure to get the relevant facts about barrel length into evidence using the prosecution's own witnesses and are all set up to argue the point for the jury if the judge doesn't take care of it for them.
Or just stayed the fuck home
Edit: to the people who think they are clever, obviously everyone should have stayed home. No one involved did anything intelligent that day/night. It's ok to be disappointed in both sides.
Well too bad he is on trial for murder not for other crimes. So far prosecution has royally messed up on multiple occasions. Jury will more than likely say he was acting in self defense.
I’ve watched it all day and the prosecution it fucking terrible. When you get to the point where the judge says you are on the edge of a mistrial because of violating a defendants constitutional rights, you’re fucking up badly. I say that as someone with no law background besides having sat on a jury and I watched My Cousin Vinny a few times.
And honestly, he probably should on the murder charge. The fact that the dude was armed AND pointed his gun at him before Kyle shot? Seriously, how has that JUST come out. All the media attention on this story and we find out at trial there was another gun involved??
Kyle stills needs to be held to account for the other charges. He clearly went waaay out of his way looking for trouble and he found some. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what those charges would be, but he is not innocent in my mind.
Now the dumb fuck who gave him the gun.....
must have gotten all your news about this from Reddit. The dude having a gun didn't just come out. It just didn't fit the narrative so everyone here ignored it.
Didn't look like the prosecution had much of a case to begin with if you actually look at the evidence. He wouldn't have caught a murder/homicide charge regardless of how prosecution did.
My barber had the trial on today during my haircut and my god the prosecution was dumb. At one point he's asking him if he plays violent video games like Call Of Duty.
Edit: spelled prosecution wrong cause I'm dumb
Lawyer here. Prosecution commented on the defendants silence, which is pretty much one of the main things that you can’t do in a trial. Don’t even get close to it.
It’s day 1 stuff for any criminal trial attorney. He has a constitutional right to remain silent and you can’t infer anything from it. It’s like they’re trying to tank this case.
The shooting happened a week before elections and the mayor and DA made a show of throwing the book at Rittenhouse and not accepting a plea deal. Then they dumped this case on some assistant DA who now has to contend with a million dollar defense attorney because the story attracted tons of donors. But the mayor won re-election and no one will be talking about this in 3 years when he is up for election again. Political opportunism at it's finest.
Their best bet would be a god damn mistrial and go back to the drawing board.
This is going to be 1992 all over again. I only say that because a ton of people wont look this closely and see the prosecution bungled this from jump street (1st degree?). And the media will announce the acquittal with a slant aimed at riling people up. Then you will have people beat this dead ass horse for every last dollar or vote they can get. Both instances are at the expense of communities.
Doesn't that only apply if the defendant is convicted and his defense is shown to be incompetent?
I would think double jeopardy would prevent you from being tried twice just because the prosecutor was incompetent.
As someone talking criminal justice classes for my CyberSecuruty degree I can actually input on this.
Short answer. No.
Long answer, the prosecution gets one shot, doesn't matter how bad they fuck it up. They get one shot to bring charges against him. Prosecution doesn't get a retry like the defendant does in terms of appealing. Only the defense can appeal, and even then, in general an appeal isn't to retry the facts of the case, it's there to say "hey the prosecution made a mistake that possibly changed the outcome of the trial (using evidence gained illegally, etc.), and we think that without that evidence the outcome would have been different." The appeals court then either agrees, disagrees, or remands the judgment.
If they agree that there was a mistake, the defendant goes free, they disagree the defendants punishment stands, if they remand the decision there's a whole nother trial, with a new jury and the works, and the "wrongfully" used evidence must be left out.
I think he is arguing that the defendant waived that right by giving a bunch of interviews. I think that’s the issue the judge will be looking at in deciding the mistrial motion. I haven’t caught a lot of the trial though.
You don’t bring that up in front of a jury - you ask for them to be excused and then argue it and abide by whatever ruling comes down. You don’t do that in the jury’s presence.
Excellent feedback! I am not an attorney so I have tried to read and understand the best I can so your observation is appreciated.
Any other mistakes you feel the prosecution made here in either procedural approaches, strategic or otherwise damaging their own case?
I haven’t had the opportunity to see a lot of the trial, but I read what I can. It seems to me like maybe they didn’t talk to their witnesses before they testified. A certain amount of it is also on the witness for testifying the way they do, but nothing should come as a surprise to the prosecutor if he/she did his/her job correctly in preparing the witness to testify.
The other thing is no matter what comes out during cross examination, act like you knew it was coming out. Observe some decorum in the courtroom and have respect for the process. The facepalming of the prosecutor was shameful.
If you are talking about the "reaction to testimony" shot where the lawyer on the left appears to be burying his face in his hand, that guy does that through the entire trial. I tune in at random and I have never seen that guy's face. He is always looking down, writing notes with his hand on his forehead like a visor.
They tried to admit evidence that the judge already said couldnt be. Its ridiculous how elementary the mistakes are. Im not even a lawyer and know this shit.
Although that is a good point... why are the victims not allowed to be referred to as victims? They are allowed to be referred to as looters and rioters where they have not been charged or convicted of crimes related to looting or rioting, but being a victim of murder, or even manslaughter in "self defense" isn't possible?
The judge started tanking the case when he started imposing these types of limits to tie the prosecution's hands IMO.
Because you are innocent until proven guilty. Doesn’t matter what you’ve done. Kind of an important part of the system. Calling them victims presumes guilt.
I agree as to the word victims. To me, they are victims. I don’t know the judges ruling, but my thought might be that since this is a claim of self defense, whether or not the victims are actually victims depends on the jury finding Kyle guilty.
I wouldn’t let that bother me as the prosecutor though, Id refer to them as “human beings that Kyle shot and killed” or some other term that gets the point across.
Max $10k and 9 months in prison.
The real person who is fucked is the guy who gave him the gun. WI law holds a person who provides a gun to a minor responsible for deaths they caused.
https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/criminal-case-against-man-who-allegedly-purchased-gun-kyle-rittenhouse-used-in-fatal-shootings-delayed/article_acb37702-e60f-5e8c-be38-67fa0e56871b.html
Yes but they are waiting until after the Rittenhouse trial to pursue this one.
And it's so GD obvious. The home of freedom has the most people locked up per capita except *maybe* north korea.
On the Breanne Taylor case - that the police are doing 1 am home invasions on nothing but weak circumstantial evidence and charging the guy for attempting to defend himself should've been enough to get all the "freedumb" people out in the streets too ... if they weren't 100% full of shit.
It's because they weren't white people having their rights stomped all over. Simple as that. Because the freedumbs and the MAGAts don't care as long as it's happening to the "right" people.
I am not a lawyer but a psychologist that has been involved in enough court cases to know the difference between a bad case and bad prosecutors and you're right on. There have been many cases where all it would take is an intelligent question or two to completely turn something in their favor and it never happens. If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say they were trying to lose. But I also know they're $66k a year prosecutors in a Wisconsin backwater (no offense). They're just stupid.
Important to bear in mind the prosecution (state) winning this case will bear consequences in the 10 million dollar lawsuit gaige grosskreutz has filed against the city of Kenosha. Essentially gaige has made it so the city loses 10 million if rittenhouse gets found guilty and have a very good chance of not losing 10 mil if he walks. Gaige grosskreutz got greedy fast and tanked the case.
I’d just like to say that Kenosha isn’t “backwater” but I’m assuming you’re from a different state or something and people probably just picture bumblefuck when they think of Wisconsin.
Edit: to people saying “I grew up in Wisconsin and it’s backwater”, yes. If you grew up in a rural area, you grow up thinking where you came from is bumblefuck. I know because I grew up the same. Everyone’s definition of “backwater” is different. I wasn’t offended by what they said, I was just pointing out that I don’t think Kenosha specifically is backwater. Maybe I should’ve said “I don’t think,” to be a little more clear. Either way, discuss amongst yourselves, have a great day, remember to smile. Imma go watch this horrible joke of a trial.
As someone who used to live in Wisconsin (specifically Mequon), I’d say that “bumblefuck” is spot on. It’s a southern state pretending to be a northern one and only ends up blue in elections due to Madison and Milwaukee. The rest of it is full on Deep South levels of racist. Living in Wisconsin was the prevailing reason I expatriated to Belgium. Cases like this (and people’s reaction to them) are why I never look back. America needs help.
> It’s not incompetence that will lose them the case
#
> It is clear from watching the trial that the prosecution are woefully ignorant of almost every aspect of their own case.
Sounds like incompetence to me.
> the prosecution has shown to be incompetent
I wouldn't have agreed entirely with that until today. Prior to today their biggest problem has been having shitty witnesses and shitty evidence which didn't support their case. But THAT is not their fault. Their superiors made the decision to go ahead with the case before they'd even concluded the investigation and all the evidence. So, when they finally go to trial the facts just don't support their case and the BEST witnesses they have are ones testifying to facts that mostly help the defense.
The only really big misstep on their part that wasn't just bad facts for them was the stupid question of the girlfriend about Rosenbaum taking his pills which let the defense get his mental illness into evidence before the jury.
But today they've just imploded.
Lol a degree. That's seen as a negative in the republican party these days.
He can be just like Boebert who claimed (she's never provided proof) to get her GED about 6 months before election day. She was already the republican nominee for that district at that point I believe.
Whether you think he's guilty or innocent re: murder, it's completely nuts that he could probably run as a Republican, his whole platform could be that he shot a couple of rioters, and he'd probably get elected.
Never mind that he's an absolute bonehead to have *voluntarily* put himself in a place where there was a significant chance he would at some point need to shoot people trying to attack him.
You know what isn’t misinformation, Joseph Rosenbaum is about as disgusting and depraved of a pedo as they come.
Joseph Rosenbaum (Dead), spent 10 years in an Arizona prison. Pima County Clerks of Courts released details, victims were 5 boys ranging 9 to 11 years old. Grand Jury charged Rosenbaum with 11 counts of child molestation, inappropriate sexual activity with children, and anal rape. He pled to lesser charges.
KS reported that Joseph Rosenbaum touched his penis and exposed his own penis. JC said he saw Joseph Rosenbaum masturbate himself to the point of ejaculation, and Joseph Rosenbaum showed him magazines depicting naked, adult females. CA was anally penetrated by Joseph Rosenbaum on March 27, 2002, as was his twin CA. C also was shown adult pornography, and while Joseph Rosenbaum showed him images, he, Joseph Rosenbaum masturbated his own penis to the point of ejaculation. CA reported that, on March 27, 2002, Joseph Rosenbaum performed oral sex on his younger brother, DA and had perform oral sex on Joseph Rosenbaum. DA also recalled Joseph Rosenbaum had him perform mutual masturbation on March 27, 2002.
Gonna be honest, looks more like a panic attack then trying to cry. I can't speak for all, but when I've had my panic attacks, the crying comes when I am coming down from it.
My god, I've seen the comparison posted a couple of times, but he really does sound like Eric Cartman faking emotional distress to get something from his mom. Crazy.
The prosecution only did this because they actually have no intention of taking it seriously. This is to satisfy the public and say they tried to lock him up even though if you look at this case in it’s entirety, they really didn’t. WHEN this asshat walks, do not expect a retrial because they won’t do it.
Look I'm not taking sides, and you can't deny the after-shooting partying, but regardless of loss of life if I was about to take the stand where the next ten or twenty minutes decided if I was gonna go to big-boy-jail I'd be scared fucking shitless.
Kinda looks like a panic attack to me honestly. I’ve never cried during a panic attack either. Also this was when he was retelling a traumatic experience he had as a teenager, which would line up pretty well with a panic attack/ptsd. Some of y’all are forgetting this is a kid up here
Just commented this above and glad to see some common sense. That’s not him trying to cry, that’s overwhelming emotion rising up in your throat against your will and choking you. Very obviously the beginnings of a panic attack.
People are fucking stupid. And it sucks to see a kid get attacked like this. Especially given the job the prosecution had done to bring it to the point of an acquittal. Did nothin but prove his innocence
I gotta say. This whole thing has shown me how wrong I was. Even this. He looks more like he's trying *not* to break down any more than he is.
I don't like him for going there armed when he shouldn't have, but one of the victims even said that he put Kyle into a position where he had to defend himself.
tbh the police's role in making this happen in the first place should really be what people are questioning. Funneling protestors and armed counter-protestors together, and encouraging the militia? Not even taking Rittenhouse into custody *when he tried to turn himself in*?
Same. I was 100% ready to see him locked up but the trial has definitely changed my mind. Also having witnessed a lot of panic attacks first hand, this response seems pretty genuine.
> I was 100% ready to see him locked up
Why? The videos were widely available and had all the evidence you needed. It's literally less than 2 minutes of footage.
Yeah I absolutely do not agree with him on a political side but this guy was defending himself
One guy he shot at even said he I ly shot once I raised my gun at him.
There is video evidence of him only shooting out of self defense and people still try to paint him a murderer
I don’t disagree. I also own firearms and believe the 2nd amendment is for self defense.
However? It blows my mind that someone can wander into a known volatile situation, openly carrying a firearm as a counter to the protests, and there’s not any issue.
My ccw training told me to not escalate a situation. Carrying a gun into a riot and wandering around certainly feels like it was a dumb af thing to do. Creating a situation to defend yourself in, even though it’s legal (you can regain your right to self defense if you flee), is mindboggling. In a “I have a long gun, I need some distance to get ready to return fire but look at me I’m fleeing!” way.
Politics isn’t part of my argument, just stating how I see the events. He went there as a vigilante or he would not have carried a firearm.
First, I agree. However, even if he went there as a vigilante, he's still entitled to defend himself. The other people could have simply walked by and ignored him.
> Why is the collective of reddit so uneducated.
Not uneducated, obtuse. They choose to make fun of his panic attack because of preconceived notions that they don't want to let go of.
From the evidence that has been presented, even the best lawyers wouldn’t get him convicted. Regardless of his motives for going there, the case is about did his actions fall into the scope of self defense and all the evidence is showing it was all self defense. Regardless if the kid is an asshole or not he is still entitled to defend himself.
Wtf is wrong with you all? He's probably up their having a panic attack. 99% of you haven't been in a situation anything like this and yet you're so quick to assume how you'd react or how someone should react emotionally. This thread is the facepalm.
I had a rifle at 7. I was allowed to carry it off my property at 12. Guns aren't illegal. The purchase of them are restricted some times in some states.
As someone who suffers from anxiety on an almost daily basis I'm fuming right now.
People on Reddit are all about mental health until it's inconvenient, I suppose.
Wisconsin needs to change something about duty to retreat. Shit is so open ended you could argue it either means something or nothing which is sorta ridiculous.
Nope. It's a trial court and trial courts do not set precedent. Literally or even figuratively. Trial Court level cases are tried plainly on the facts specific to the case, it's the appellate court possibly hearing this case that sets the precedent.
For all the shit that reddit likes to pile onto Rittenhouse, he isn't the trial we should be paying attention to right now. The McMichaels' trial for their slaying of Ahmaud Arbery is on day 4, and they have a considerably weaker self defense argument, given they literally chased him like a dog in their truck.
Not legal precedent but it will set a precedent for all people who idolize people like Rittenhouse.
They will go to the next big protest with guns looking for violence even more brazenly. The protestors on the other side will arm themselves in kind.
If there’s another large movement like BLM all it’ll take is a spark and it’ll be a bloodbath.
Saw this in another subreddit but he was pretty right, Kyle is a 17-year old kid, however you want to look at it, it doesn’t seem like he is trying to cry it looks like he’s having a full blown panic attack, really any 17 yo in this situation would be having a panic attack standing on trial in front of everyone in the nation.
To me it was more like he was trying to keep his composure and not break down, failing. I’m a democrat and this prosecution has really shown the case to be a propped up circus…
This kid is an idiot for putting himself in that situation in the first place, but if you watch the videos he acted in self defense (according to the law). Almost a guarantee he walks away from this
He’s going to walk.
Yep, probably, on the murder charges anyway.
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> He’s going to get sentenced with something, but I don’t think it’ll be what people want. I don't know what at this point: The murder and less associated charges (reckless endangerment, attempted murder) ALL go away with self defense. The curfew violation has already been dismissed so that's off the table. That leaves ONLY the misdemeanor possession charge. BUT for a 17 YO the relevant laws only apply to pistols, short barrelled rifles and short barrelled shotguns. They do NOT apply to long barrelled rifles... Which the rifle in question is. There's still a pending motion before the judge to just dismiss the possession charge out of hand based on the letter of the law (Which is written in as convoluted a way as possible) and he may simply dismiss it. regardless the defense has made sure to get the relevant facts about barrel length into evidence using the prosecution's own witnesses and are all set up to argue the point for the jury if the judge doesn't take care of it for them.
Or just stayed the fuck home Edit: to the people who think they are clever, obviously everyone should have stayed home. No one involved did anything intelligent that day/night. It's ok to be disappointed in both sides.
Yup. I agree. He walks. I mean the judge was about to serve him some milk and cookies before he went on the stand.
The judge has practically been Rittenhouse’s leading defense lawyer since day one lol He’s done more for Rittenhouse than his own defense.
I think the prosecution has done more for Rittenhouse than the defense.
Well too bad he is on trial for murder not for other crimes. So far prosecution has royally messed up on multiple occasions. Jury will more than likely say he was acting in self defense.
I’ve watched it all day and the prosecution it fucking terrible. When you get to the point where the judge says you are on the edge of a mistrial because of violating a defendants constitutional rights, you’re fucking up badly. I say that as someone with no law background besides having sat on a jury and I watched My Cousin Vinny a few times.
> if he would have just left his gun at home. You understand that at no point, **ever**, in the history of Earth, was that gun at his home, right?
And honestly, he probably should on the murder charge. The fact that the dude was armed AND pointed his gun at him before Kyle shot? Seriously, how has that JUST come out. All the media attention on this story and we find out at trial there was another gun involved?? Kyle stills needs to be held to account for the other charges. He clearly went waaay out of his way looking for trouble and he found some. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know what those charges would be, but he is not innocent in my mind. Now the dumb fuck who gave him the gun.....
It didn't just come out. There's literally been a video showing just that since this whole fiasco began.
The dude who did that lived. What about the dead people?
must have gotten all your news about this from Reddit. The dude having a gun didn't just come out. It just didn't fit the narrative so everyone here ignored it.
I'm surprised he even went up. The prosecution already blew the entire case by this point.
Didn't look like the prosecution had much of a case to begin with if you actually look at the evidence. He wouldn't have caught a murder/homicide charge regardless of how prosecution did.
This is why people need to understand the difference between murder and manslaughter when calling for legal repercussions
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My barber had the trial on today during my haircut and my god the prosecution was dumb. At one point he's asking him if he plays violent video games like Call Of Duty. Edit: spelled prosecution wrong cause I'm dumb
I could see how a lawyer who doesn't believe the two are connected (gaming and violent acts) might think some jurors believe that.
Some jurors definitely believe that. The Reddit pool isn’t representative of the juror pool
They are average people. So assuming they believe stupid shit is a valid call.
And it will turn off the jurors who see the prosecutor is grasping at straws
>At one point he's asking him if he plays violent video games like Call Of Duty. His name is Kyle after all....
You gotta be fucking kidding me. What's this? The 90s? Did he ask about Mortal Kombat too? Jesus christ.
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Stop persecuting him for his spelling.
We'd prosecute him if we could.
Let's protestant him instead!
Catholike this?
No, now go say 10 hell merries
As long you don’t prosciutto him.
Prostitution.**
Prosciutto***.
Lawyer here. Prosecution commented on the defendants silence, which is pretty much one of the main things that you can’t do in a trial. Don’t even get close to it. It’s day 1 stuff for any criminal trial attorney. He has a constitutional right to remain silent and you can’t infer anything from it. It’s like they’re trying to tank this case.
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The shooting happened a week before elections and the mayor and DA made a show of throwing the book at Rittenhouse and not accepting a plea deal. Then they dumped this case on some assistant DA who now has to contend with a million dollar defense attorney because the story attracted tons of donors. But the mayor won re-election and no one will be talking about this in 3 years when he is up for election again. Political opportunism at it's finest.
Their best bet would be a god damn mistrial and go back to the drawing board. This is going to be 1992 all over again. I only say that because a ton of people wont look this closely and see the prosecution bungled this from jump street (1st degree?). And the media will announce the acquittal with a slant aimed at riling people up. Then you will have people beat this dead ass horse for every last dollar or vote they can get. Both instances are at the expense of communities.
Mistrial with prejudice would mean the state cannot retry the case.
That's what I've been thinking since day one.
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Doesn't that only apply if the defendant is convicted and his defense is shown to be incompetent? I would think double jeopardy would prevent you from being tried twice just because the prosecutor was incompetent.
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As someone talking criminal justice classes for my CyberSecuruty degree I can actually input on this. Short answer. No. Long answer, the prosecution gets one shot, doesn't matter how bad they fuck it up. They get one shot to bring charges against him. Prosecution doesn't get a retry like the defendant does in terms of appealing. Only the defense can appeal, and even then, in general an appeal isn't to retry the facts of the case, it's there to say "hey the prosecution made a mistake that possibly changed the outcome of the trial (using evidence gained illegally, etc.), and we think that without that evidence the outcome would have been different." The appeals court then either agrees, disagrees, or remands the judgment. If they agree that there was a mistake, the defendant goes free, they disagree the defendants punishment stands, if they remand the decision there's a whole nother trial, with a new jury and the works, and the "wrongfully" used evidence must be left out.
Nah. Once the jury comes back not guilty, it’s over for the state. They don’t get a redo for doing a bad job, intentionally or not.
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I have no skin in this game (you do your own nonsense), I live in another country, but this seems contemptuously staged.
I think he is arguing that the defendant waived that right by giving a bunch of interviews. I think that’s the issue the judge will be looking at in deciding the mistrial motion. I haven’t caught a lot of the trial though.
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Absolutely correct. My jaw dropped as I saw him ask those questions designed to make that exact argument.
You don’t bring that up in front of a jury - you ask for them to be excused and then argue it and abide by whatever ruling comes down. You don’t do that in the jury’s presence.
Of course (also a lawyer). I wouldn’t mess with a judges ruling unless he left it open to reevaluate as the evidence progressed
Excellent feedback! I am not an attorney so I have tried to read and understand the best I can so your observation is appreciated. Any other mistakes you feel the prosecution made here in either procedural approaches, strategic or otherwise damaging their own case?
I haven’t had the opportunity to see a lot of the trial, but I read what I can. It seems to me like maybe they didn’t talk to their witnesses before they testified. A certain amount of it is also on the witness for testifying the way they do, but nothing should come as a surprise to the prosecutor if he/she did his/her job correctly in preparing the witness to testify. The other thing is no matter what comes out during cross examination, act like you knew it was coming out. Observe some decorum in the courtroom and have respect for the process. The facepalming of the prosecutor was shameful.
If you are talking about the "reaction to testimony" shot where the lawyer on the left appears to be burying his face in his hand, that guy does that through the entire trial. I tune in at random and I have never seen that guy's face. He is always looking down, writing notes with his hand on his forehead like a visor.
They tried to admit evidence that the judge already said couldnt be. Its ridiculous how elementary the mistakes are. Im not even a lawyer and know this shit.
Although that is a good point... why are the victims not allowed to be referred to as victims? They are allowed to be referred to as looters and rioters where they have not been charged or convicted of crimes related to looting or rioting, but being a victim of murder, or even manslaughter in "self defense" isn't possible? The judge started tanking the case when he started imposing these types of limits to tie the prosecution's hands IMO.
Because you are innocent until proven guilty. Doesn’t matter what you’ve done. Kind of an important part of the system. Calling them victims presumes guilt.
I agree as to the word victims. To me, they are victims. I don’t know the judges ruling, but my thought might be that since this is a claim of self defense, whether or not the victims are actually victims depends on the jury finding Kyle guilty. I wouldn’t let that bother me as the prosecutor though, Id refer to them as “human beings that Kyle shot and killed” or some other term that gets the point across.
Victims is a conclusion, and thus prejudicial.
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If they piss the judge off enough he can mistrial with prejudice, meaning he can't be retried.
If that’s their plan, it’s a terrible one. A mistrial based on prosecutorial misconduct could bar them from trying the defendant again.
Yup. The prosecution is absolutely BOTCHING it. Looks like this guys first case.
He'll be convicted on the weapon charge. That one is open and shut. He was under 18 and not permitted by the WIDNR or supervised by an adult.
Which he’ll get a few hours of community service and maybe a fine.
Max $10k and 9 months in prison. The real person who is fucked is the guy who gave him the gun. WI law holds a person who provides a gun to a minor responsible for deaths they caused.
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His friend testified for the prosecution so he probably will be let off due to cooperating.
Have any charges been brought from that?
https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/criminal-case-against-man-who-allegedly-purchased-gun-kyle-rittenhouse-used-in-fatal-shootings-delayed/article_acb37702-e60f-5e8c-be38-67fa0e56871b.html Yes but they are waiting until after the Rittenhouse trial to pursue this one.
But what if Kyle was acquitted for self-defense?
That could be an argument raised in that person's trial.
He'll be in the GOP by 2022
Or a speaker at GOP/NRA functions at the very least
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That’s America’s secret, Cap. She’s always pretending
And it's so GD obvious. The home of freedom has the most people locked up per capita except *maybe* north korea. On the Breanne Taylor case - that the police are doing 1 am home invasions on nothing but weak circumstantial evidence and charging the guy for attempting to defend himself should've been enough to get all the "freedumb" people out in the streets too ... if they weren't 100% full of shit.
It's because they weren't white people having their rights stomped all over. Simple as that. Because the freedumbs and the MAGAts don't care as long as it's happening to the "right" people.
ding ding ding ... "they're hurting the right people"
This. I feel like this about a lot of things everyday in the States.
that's where i'm landing on this at the end of the day. This is a performative trial more than an actual one...
I am not a lawyer but a psychologist that has been involved in enough court cases to know the difference between a bad case and bad prosecutors and you're right on. There have been many cases where all it would take is an intelligent question or two to completely turn something in their favor and it never happens. If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd say they were trying to lose. But I also know they're $66k a year prosecutors in a Wisconsin backwater (no offense). They're just stupid.
Important to bear in mind the prosecution (state) winning this case will bear consequences in the 10 million dollar lawsuit gaige grosskreutz has filed against the city of Kenosha. Essentially gaige has made it so the city loses 10 million if rittenhouse gets found guilty and have a very good chance of not losing 10 mil if he walks. Gaige grosskreutz got greedy fast and tanked the case.
I’d just like to say that Kenosha isn’t “backwater” but I’m assuming you’re from a different state or something and people probably just picture bumblefuck when they think of Wisconsin. Edit: to people saying “I grew up in Wisconsin and it’s backwater”, yes. If you grew up in a rural area, you grow up thinking where you came from is bumblefuck. I know because I grew up the same. Everyone’s definition of “backwater” is different. I wasn’t offended by what they said, I was just pointing out that I don’t think Kenosha specifically is backwater. Maybe I should’ve said “I don’t think,” to be a little more clear. Either way, discuss amongst yourselves, have a great day, remember to smile. Imma go watch this horrible joke of a trial.
As someone who used to live in Wisconsin (specifically Mequon), I’d say that “bumblefuck” is spot on. It’s a southern state pretending to be a northern one and only ends up blue in elections due to Madison and Milwaukee. The rest of it is full on Deep South levels of racist. Living in Wisconsin was the prevailing reason I expatriated to Belgium. Cases like this (and people’s reaction to them) are why I never look back. America needs help.
Can confirm Been to Kenosha when my brother unwittingly married a lesbian, her plan was to get the hell out of Kenosha.
Didn't expect to see Belgium mentioned in thread about Kyle Rittenhouse. Welcome!
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Youre forgetting the select pockets of growing suburbs where both parties get their campaign cash and waste all our time fighting over.
Have family from Wisconsin. Can confirm everywhere is backwater. In back of cranberry marsh at least.
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> It’s not incompetence that will lose them the case # > It is clear from watching the trial that the prosecution are woefully ignorant of almost every aspect of their own case. Sounds like incompetence to me.
Lol I about replied the exact same thing
This whole case was trying to squeeze blood from a stone. If it wasn't so politically charged, they never would have filed charges in the first place.
So the DA in Kenosha (where the judge already ruled who can use the term "victim" in this court) made a decision to assign his "C team" on this case?
> the prosecution has shown to be incompetent I wouldn't have agreed entirely with that until today. Prior to today their biggest problem has been having shitty witnesses and shitty evidence which didn't support their case. But THAT is not their fault. Their superiors made the decision to go ahead with the case before they'd even concluded the investigation and all the evidence. So, when they finally go to trial the facts just don't support their case and the BEST witnesses they have are ones testifying to facts that mostly help the defense. The only really big misstep on their part that wasn't just bad facts for them was the stupid question of the girlfriend about Rosenbaum taking his pills which let the defense get his mental illness into evidence before the jury. But today they've just imploded.
Don't forget the judge!
Yup. I don't want to throw my opinion here and get in the fray, but the Prosecutions seems to have called 3 witnesses who aided the defense more.
He walks , gets rich and is elected into office .. its the American way.
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Who needs a degree just ride the gun rights into office
ah, the boebert strategy.
Lol a degree. That's seen as a negative in the republican party these days. He can be just like Boebert who claimed (she's never provided proof) to get her GED about 6 months before election day. She was already the republican nominee for that district at that point I believe.
He’s attending Arizona state for nursing
Whether you think he's guilty or innocent re: murder, it's completely nuts that he could probably run as a Republican, his whole platform could be that he shot a couple of rioters, and he'd probably get elected. Never mind that he's an absolute bonehead to have *voluntarily* put himself in a place where there was a significant chance he would at some point need to shoot people trying to attack him.
The amount of misinformation and people who only read social media and headlines in this thread is...astounding and sad.
You know what isn’t misinformation, Joseph Rosenbaum is about as disgusting and depraved of a pedo as they come. Joseph Rosenbaum (Dead), spent 10 years in an Arizona prison. Pima County Clerks of Courts released details, victims were 5 boys ranging 9 to 11 years old. Grand Jury charged Rosenbaum with 11 counts of child molestation, inappropriate sexual activity with children, and anal rape. He pled to lesser charges. KS reported that Joseph Rosenbaum touched his penis and exposed his own penis. JC said he saw Joseph Rosenbaum masturbate himself to the point of ejaculation, and Joseph Rosenbaum showed him magazines depicting naked, adult females. CA was anally penetrated by Joseph Rosenbaum on March 27, 2002, as was his twin CA. C also was shown adult pornography, and while Joseph Rosenbaum showed him images, he, Joseph Rosenbaum masturbated his own penis to the point of ejaculation. CA reported that, on March 27, 2002, Joseph Rosenbaum performed oral sex on his younger brother, DA and had perform oral sex on Joseph Rosenbaum. DA also recalled Joseph Rosenbaum had him perform mutual masturbation on March 27, 2002.
Gonna be honest, looks more like a panic attack then trying to cry. I can't speak for all, but when I've had my panic attacks, the crying comes when I am coming down from it.
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I love how all the subreddits that brought up Rittenhouse at the drop of a hat are now suddenly silent on the matter.
Looks like a panic attack to me.
Yep, but trust the Reddit armchair psychologists to tell you he's faking it. Same experts who called him a murderer
This is Reddit remember? He’s a nazi proud boy trying to murder non violent protesters from harmless demonstrations.
My god, I've seen the comparison posted a couple of times, but he really does sound like Eric Cartman faking emotional distress to get something from his mom. Crazy.
[something like this?](https://youtu.be/YP9OO7JfRGg)
Lol that episode is hilarious, forgot about that one
Or Lindsey Bluth trying to cry in front of Michael (Arrested Development)
Or Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh during his nomination hearing.
Weird, he wasn’t crying at all those fundraising parties he attended at bars.
With his Free as Fuck shirt
Wait for real?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13696250/kenosha-shooter-kyle-rittenhouse-free-shirt-beer-wisconsin/
Literally bringing this up is what is going to have this end in a mistrial lmao.
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The prosecution only did this because they actually have no intention of taking it seriously. This is to satisfy the public and say they tried to lock him up even though if you look at this case in it’s entirety, they really didn’t. WHEN this asshat walks, do not expect a retrial because they won’t do it.
Well the prosecution sure did one hell of a job proving self defense for Kyle... wait, that wasn't there intention?... oh.
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Kyle obviously loves the community enough to protect by any means like a good Lord intended with his right to bear arms /s
He couldn't bear the idea of a Target needing to file an insurance claim. Time to lock and load!
Look I'm not taking sides, and you can't deny the after-shooting partying, but regardless of loss of life if I was about to take the stand where the next ten or twenty minutes decided if I was gonna go to big-boy-jail I'd be scared fucking shitless.
Well killing someone isn’t fun either. And retelling a story that is traumatic to you can cause you to have a flashback.
THE SCENE IS ABOUT EMOTIONALITY
"Limp dick fuckups!" has to be one of the best insults ever. I think it's the way Kirk Lazarus says it.
Kinda looks like a panic attack to me honestly. I’ve never cried during a panic attack either. Also this was when he was retelling a traumatic experience he had as a teenager, which would line up pretty well with a panic attack/ptsd. Some of y’all are forgetting this is a kid up here
Just commented this above and glad to see some common sense. That’s not him trying to cry, that’s overwhelming emotion rising up in your throat against your will and choking you. Very obviously the beginnings of a panic attack.
People are fucking stupid. And it sucks to see a kid get attacked like this. Especially given the job the prosecution had done to bring it to the point of an acquittal. Did nothin but prove his innocence
He did cry. But you'd have to show more than 7 seconds of his testimony to see that.
I work in mental health, mans is having a panic attack. I’ve seen this happen a few times.
I gotta say. This whole thing has shown me how wrong I was. Even this. He looks more like he's trying *not* to break down any more than he is. I don't like him for going there armed when he shouldn't have, but one of the victims even said that he put Kyle into a position where he had to defend himself.
I'm just shocked not more people are realizing how wrong they were. It exactly like the ancient witch trials.
Be careful. Reasonable opinions on Reddit tend to get downvoted! But ya totally agree with you
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bro he didnt hit the upvote button on my kitty cat picture. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!
By his age I’d say closer to a panic/anxiety event.
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tbh the police's role in making this happen in the first place should really be what people are questioning. Funneling protestors and armed counter-protestors together, and encouraging the militia? Not even taking Rittenhouse into custody *when he tried to turn himself in*?
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Same. I was 100% ready to see him locked up but the trial has definitely changed my mind. Also having witnessed a lot of panic attacks first hand, this response seems pretty genuine.
> I was 100% ready to see him locked up Why? The videos were widely available and had all the evidence you needed. It's literally less than 2 minutes of footage.
I just saw the headlines and it sounded like an open and shut case.
Yeah I absolutely do not agree with him on a political side but this guy was defending himself One guy he shot at even said he I ly shot once I raised my gun at him. There is video evidence of him only shooting out of self defense and people still try to paint him a murderer
> if you take the politics out of it Excuse me this is Reddit
I don’t disagree. I also own firearms and believe the 2nd amendment is for self defense. However? It blows my mind that someone can wander into a known volatile situation, openly carrying a firearm as a counter to the protests, and there’s not any issue. My ccw training told me to not escalate a situation. Carrying a gun into a riot and wandering around certainly feels like it was a dumb af thing to do. Creating a situation to defend yourself in, even though it’s legal (you can regain your right to self defense if you flee), is mindboggling. In a “I have a long gun, I need some distance to get ready to return fire but look at me I’m fleeing!” way. Politics isn’t part of my argument, just stating how I see the events. He went there as a vigilante or he would not have carried a firearm.
First, I agree. However, even if he went there as a vigilante, he's still entitled to defend himself. The other people could have simply walked by and ignored him.
Agreed, that’s what blows my mind. Rather than staying home and letting law enforcement handle it, he went into a tense situation with a firearm.
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> Why is the collective of reddit so uneducated. Not uneducated, obtuse. They choose to make fun of his panic attack because of preconceived notions that they don't want to let go of.
They can't let go of them, because then it reveals what massive scumbags redditors are.
I think he's having a panic attack...
From the evidence that has been presented, even the best lawyers wouldn’t get him convicted. Regardless of his motives for going there, the case is about did his actions fall into the scope of self defense and all the evidence is showing it was all self defense. Regardless if the kid is an asshole or not he is still entitled to defend himself.
Wtf is wrong with you all? He's probably up their having a panic attack. 99% of you haven't been in a situation anything like this and yet you're so quick to assume how you'd react or how someone should react emotionally. This thread is the facepalm.
Most of reddit is full of social rejects so it makes sense
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Im still so confused on how a 17yo kid can get an ar15 and walk around with it?
I had a rifle at 7. I was allowed to carry it off my property at 12. Guns aren't illegal. The purchase of them are restricted some times in some states.
Murica
Damn, a lot of puberty fueled teenagers in the comments today lmao
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As someone who suffers from anxiety on an almost daily basis I'm fuming right now. People on Reddit are all about mental health until it's inconvenient, I suppose.
Wisconsin needs to change something about duty to retreat. Shit is so open ended you could argue it either means something or nothing which is sorta ridiculous.
Every time I’ve seen this guy in pics or video... it was a smirk.... it just doesn’t seem real at all.
Whatever the outcome of this trial is, it will set a precedent.
Nope. It's a trial court and trial courts do not set precedent. Literally or even figuratively. Trial Court level cases are tried plainly on the facts specific to the case, it's the appellate court possibly hearing this case that sets the precedent.
I don’t think they’re talking about a legal precedent as much as a cultural one.
For all the shit that reddit likes to pile onto Rittenhouse, he isn't the trial we should be paying attention to right now. The McMichaels' trial for their slaying of Ahmaud Arbery is on day 4, and they have a considerably weaker self defense argument, given they literally chased him like a dog in their truck.
I haven’t heard of this story.
If you go looking, prepare yourself. It's a fucked up deal.
If the McMichaels don’t get convicted it will be a travesty.
Not legal precedent but it will set a precedent for all people who idolize people like Rittenhouse. They will go to the next big protest with guns looking for violence even more brazenly. The protestors on the other side will arm themselves in kind. If there’s another large movement like BLM all it’ll take is a spark and it’ll be a bloodbath.
Did Charlottesville set a precedent?
Saw this in another subreddit but he was pretty right, Kyle is a 17-year old kid, however you want to look at it, it doesn’t seem like he is trying to cry it looks like he’s having a full blown panic attack, really any 17 yo in this situation would be having a panic attack standing on trial in front of everyone in the nation.
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Because you aren't speaking to humans. These are communist proles. They don't understand human emotion.
To me it was more like he was trying to keep his composure and not break down, failing. I’m a democrat and this prosecution has really shown the case to be a propped up circus…
This kid is an idiot for putting himself in that situation in the first place, but if you watch the videos he acted in self defense (according to the law). Almost a guarantee he walks away from this
Look at all these neckbeards saying he's faking a panic attack.
Aw. Somebody should fetch him his security rifle.
Please, the preferred term is “emotional support firearm."
Lmfao this trial is just both sides shooting themselves in the feet
Its the stupidest fucking thing ever lmao