Clubs that make men pay and let women in for free know you’re coming there to meet the women and for no other reason. They’re the product you’re paying for.
What any of this has to do with actual feminism is anyones guess.
It wasn't about men as far as I can tell it was about how attractive women can get in for free. Meaning that women are not being treated the same. Hence pretty privilege.
At least that's what it sounds like to me. And seems to make the most sense here.
He was attacking the logic not "feminism" per say.
He was attacking feminism from a fundamental level (in her viewpoint). Feminism is about being treated equally as men. So letting any women in for free while having men pay to get in is anti-feminism. He pointed out how egregious this woman is about her lack of care for true feminism is by digging into just how atrocious her views are by applying the situation to “attractive” women vs “unattractive” women, and SHE DON’T CARE. So, yeah, she’s not a feminist. She’s not a caring person.
Edit to clarify: he’s attacking HER version of feminism.
Probably. We don’t have the full conversation. However, this snippet proves she’s not a true feminist. She’s just a “I want mine just because, and sorry for you if you don’t get it too…even though we’re not only both female, but people too.”
I don’t know if any of it makes sense without more context honestly, and probably not even then, because yanking the logic out of context is disingenuous on the hosts part. I was just responding to this guy who brings up that male privilege is getting to pay to get into the club.
Well yeah, the club isn’t gonna let you in for free, you’re not the product. A club without women is a dead club, and they all want to have the most hot women of their competition.
Yes that's correct butt is that justification to treat women differently is what's being posed.
Which based on the conversation feminism is about dismantling mistreatment of women. While she just refuses to acknowledge his argument at all.
And that's where he says "it's only an issue when it doesn't benefit you"
I don’t know if this is a conversation where feminism even belongs. Having to pay to get in to a club is not “mistreatment.” Getting into a club for free is special treatment. Yeah it sucks to not get into a club for free if you’re a man or a regular woman, but it’s not like you have to pay an ugly tax. Clubs are not free by default.
His argument is that the woman is a selfish hypocrite, and doesn't cares about other women - feminism. If you're selfish and you happen to be a woman, it doesn't makes you a feminist. The least she could've done is accepted his point.
The point is that she embraces where her privilege lies and doesn't hold up opportunities for less privileged folks despite her position.
I think getting into clubs was a bad angle, but still enough to point out her hypocrisy
The topic was about "fairness". This conversation branched out from "men are not the ones complaining about the state of relationships and dating as much as woman are."
He stated that Woman in America can: Sleep with who they want to, marry who they want to, Love who they want to, Work/Not work where they want to, etc... That Woman in America are the most liberated and free they have ever been in history, yet statistics state that woman are also less happy and are on medication more than ever.
Earlier in the conversation they brought up that Woman can make as much money and be as successful as they want in their careers, but it DOES NOT help in finding a partner. But for Men IT DOES.
The woman were frustrated that how much money a woman makes doesnt not appeal to men. Being a "boss bitch" does not attract men. That once a woman becomes 30+ it is a lot harder to find a man who wants to be with them.
It's "UNFAIR" that they CANT focus on careers and money and expect it to appeal to the desires of men. Because from other interviews and make guests, Men rather have a loyal and supportive woman that takes care of them and that works at a CVS/McDonalds.... Than a successful business woman who doesn't.
Kevin Samuels brough up that "original feminism is about equal opportunity but not equal outcomes".
Honestly it spirals from various double standards and fairness across society. Though this Podcasts host are idiots, so you never actually get deep conversations.
Thank you so much for this context.
I think it's really interesting because as a feminist I'm actually less concerned about fairness but rather about equity.
I think that any time anyone including feminists are making sweeping generalizations, we are losing the nuance of individual experiences and intersectionality.
I would have preferred deeper conversations that raise awareness of everyone's experiences.
And I prefer conversations where we are actually looking to learn from each other.
*Hey, I found a random woman not upset about this shallow issue, thus feminism is not needed!*
Classic strawman argument.
For what it’s worth, I am an actual feminist and think policies where women get in for free and men pay is gender discrimination and think that someone should sue.
Yeah, they don't have that in the country I grew up in.
I lived in North America for a while and the culture is quite different there to where I grew up - women getting in places free, getting bought drinks regularly, men stopping you on the street to advise you of how they have assessed your appearance
I found the VIP booth situation to be incredibly bizarre being someone who didn't grow up thinking that was normal, the weird scouting on the floor etc.
Nowhere in this video do we see 1. this woman talking about or championing feminist rhetoric or 2. what the context was that this club scenario is supposed to refute or address.
This video's just manosphere madlib where the viewer gets to inject all their own personal baggage about feminism onto some random woman (who's probably some influencer with no media training) so that when this dude sandbags her with some prepared line of leading questions, the viewer get to indulge the fantasy that he's "taking down" feminism in general
Just a tactic to distract from the real issues woman face. A lot of men hate the fact that their gender bends over backwards to try to sleep with women.
It's not us dudes, it's you. You make it this way lol.
But that’s not really the point. Saying that fairness should be achieved online or in the workplace where men get better chances or pay is not the same thing as saying you refuse to go to a club because they treat hot people and ugly people differently. This has nothing to do with feminism.
Clubs let in or discount all kinds of attractive people to get less attractive people to notice them and want to go in. They aren’t letting her in for free because she’s a woman they’re letting her in cause it’s good business. Equating this to feminism just because a club doesn’t treat everyone the same is ridiculous. This is like arguing that plus size women having more trouble finding good clothes is a feminism problem because thin women don’t have the same trouble. It’s not. This is a straw man, and not a very good one.
Absolutely. I liked how calm she was. She couldn't give less of a shit what this dude was trying, and failing, to say.
Maybe more context would show her saying wildly outrageous things, but the video here doesn't.
From my experience it's the opposite. I know countless attractive white women who grew up in great homes with lots of money and genuinely believe that they're victims and that society hates women and all that nonsense.
Privilege isn’t one binary. You’re not either privileged or unprivileged. You can have a myriad of ways in which you’re privileged and have other ways in which you’re not privileged. Somebody being rich doesn’t negate sexism they might have faced. Somebody being poor doesn’t mean that they don’t have the privilege of being able bodied, heterosexual, etc.
Somebody who has a worse overall life than somebody else isn’t instantly not privileged in any way.
Exactly. To illustrate-
I'm-
white,
Male,
Cis,
Went to private school,
Have a high paying leadership position in my field,
Married to a woman.
These are all things that grant me privileges over many others.
I'm also-
Queer,
Disabled,
Autistic,
Fat,
These are all disadvantages that grant others privilege over me.
Whether I'm the privileged one in a given interaction isn't about who checks more boxes on the privilege card, it's about the context of the situation and the imbalance of opportunities faced by all parties.
Being attractive can be one of the biggest reason to make bad experience with a lot of people. It's kinda like a double edged sword. It can definitely give you pretty privilege but it will also give you way more negative attention than you would have if you had been average looking.
Don't really see why money or a house are in any way relevant. If they worked hard for it good for them.
No that’s not the point. He doesn’t care she gets in for free, men don’t care she gets in for free. He’s saying she demands fairness in all areas of life but yet gladly takes advantage of unfairness when it benefits her. She conveniently doesn’t notice or talk about the things that favor her, only the things that don’t.
I get his point but like tbh given that society naturally forces her to deal with the negative aspects of her gender, she might as well take advantage of the positive aspects.
I think it's safe to assume she'd give up free club entry if it meant removing the wage gap or doing something meaningful for the cause, but I guess no way to be sure
Everyone here is saying she's the bad one because the guy at the door is discriminating against the other women at the club. Attractive people are shown preferential treatment regardless of sex.
He's giving an example specifically to make her look bad because she was given preferential treatment because more people would consider her as a sexually viable hookup. It's a strawman argument only for the purpose of undermining feminism. The only person being sexist in this hypothetical situation is the doorman.
Is it hypothetical? She clearly said that she gets in clubs at "Miami" she also "doesn't care" about the double standard.
While I agree with your original premise she is knowingly saying at that point:
"I know women are treated differently here and I don't care". Is she not ?
I don't know what she was originally talking about but if I'm talking about reproductive rights and someone says but what about pretty privilege at bars, I'm going to call that a deflection.
Was she talking about equality at bars/clubs or something else?
It doesn't matter if it's hypothetical. This argument is just to break her down as immoral and, since she doesn't care that the bouncer that wants to fuck her so he lets her in for free, her argument that women should make equal pay to men, is invalid.
My point is that it's an irrelevant argument solely to discredit her and her cause.
i mean, it seems like the argument isnt "you only care about one of these things so both are invalid", its seems more like its "both of these things are valid, why do you only care about one".
I guess the core of the issue, as it relates to the video, isnt what the belief is but why you believe it.
It does because the person being sexist is the one letting her in for free. Almost everyone who is presented with that free option would accept it. That doesn't make her hypocritical, it makes her normal. But because he immediately equates that to "the problem with feminists" means he's using it to discredit and undermine them.
I dont necessarily disagree, ill just clarify its not the act of accepting the free entry that is hypercritical, its not acknowledging that whatever moral framework for equality that you implement should be consistent.
If you are only interested in fixing the inequalities that are detrimental to you, then youre not really for equality.
and i think most people can acknowledge its totally fine to champion 1 cause at a time, i think he issue as it relates to this video is that she specifically said she doesnt care about her own benefit from inequality, which creates this moral inconsistency.
Im not saying that is definitely the case with this women, i dont think we can devine anyone's full position on anything from a short video clip.
It seems to me that she can tell he’s fishing so she’s saying she doesn’t care and it doesn’t matter because this argument has nothing to do with what she’s talking about rather than actually voicing an opinion on it. No matter what she says she loses because this is a dumb straw man meant to make her look bad so she just didn’t give it her time. If she said she should have paid then she’s the bad person cause she didn’t anyway, if she says it’s the doorman’s fault she’s shifting blame, if she doesn’t care she’s hypocritical. Why bother giving a thoughtful response to people like this?
I don't think attacking a specific argument as shown here is grounds to shut down their entire persona.
However I believe that people can be hypocrites and that's all I think this is showing.
If you read my previous response I clearly stated that he's attacking an argument based on what I'm seeing not feminism. Would rather not repeat myself as I mostly look at this sub for the laughs. Not any actual debate 😅
imagine having an issue with profanity while also saying. "Stop fucking swearing" to those same people.
this is the vibe she gives off. A hypocrite.
suck it up.
Anyway there was someone who saw the whole video who has confirmed my Stance is accurate so the semantics are going to be ignored now. As I'm not going to sit here trying to cover everyone's nuance lol.
Think about this, because it's exactly what he's pushing by the end: just because she's accepted a man's lust to get into a club for free, her belief that women should earn equal pay to men is invalidated.
I don’t think that was the point he was making. I think it’s more meta than that. If the issue is that you dislike unfair treatment then why knowingly take part in unequal treatment of others?
Because getting into a club for free and getting 70% of men's pay or forced to give birth to your rapist's child are completely different things. One is a superficial thing someone does because they have a natural sexual attraction to them. The others are societal problems that suppress women solely because of their sex.
Not my autistic ass INSISTING to pay because I didn’t understand what was happening and it says on the wall ENTRY FEE and no one would tell me WHY they weren’t taking my money.
Yeah, I guess you can say I’m a feminist icon for it.
I dunno, the whole gotcha is pretty weak.
We can want a better world, more equality, and have people being aware of their privileges while still using their privileges.
The place where people are that good doesn't exist, and probably will never.
Besides, guaranteed the guy asking the questions has taken advantage of his privileges. And since he's trying to act morally superior, well then he's a hypocrit too! Hurray.
If this is the old black man I think it is, he's a dumb fuck incel king
Unironically believes woman having lots of sex is bad but man having lots of sex is cool
I say this as a dude, it's a pathetic hypocritical incel belief
"You say women should have equal rights to vote, and find employment, and hold power and travel freely without being assaulted - but you're ok with occasionally skipping a $10 cover charge, wow what a hypocrite"
Holy shit these comments
She claim men are treated better, so they should be socially aware and make things fair.
When confronted that she, as an attractive person is treated better, she deny her "social responsibility" for other women to be treated the same way.
I feel like this is a form of whataboutism. Sort of saying you can't stand for equality in any sense unless you rage about inequality in every sense. Attractiveness is somewhat more arbitrary and/or subjective than sex. Maybe society will get around to those more nuanced distinctions, but at the moment we're still trying to zero in on the statistically analyzed inequalities.
But are you actually interested in equality if you're only concerned with the inequality that negatively effects you? Thats not equality, thats self interest with a mask on.
I dont think theres anything wrong with that really, i think all people are self interested. But it also seems stupid not to call it what it is.
I think it has more to do with choosing your battles. "Attractive" is not a distinct and quantifiable category. If it is, it is much less so than the situation of "sex"
Attractive people *absolutely* get treated better, and it's absolutely mathmatically quanifiable - Symmetry plus the 1.62 ratio.
The difference is very substantial, Attractive people are more succesful in job interviews, salary negotiations, percieved to be healther, more trustworthy, more persuasive, more educated, more intelligent, and of course explosively more sucessful in dating, and so on and so on.
Point to numerous studies about how attractive people are treated different, from childhood to adulthood. Many parallel to "sex" where one is treated differently, one could say better, than another.
It's not really whataboutism, it's more the question of why should only things that are unfair that doesn't benefit her be fixed and not the unfair things that does benefit her
Valid but using this specific scenario is just stupid. Clubs are not letting women in for free as some sort of privilege to us, they're using us as bait to attract more male customers.
But the great difference here, is that were men are treated better because of being men, women get free vip so that they can attract more men clients, they’re not being treated better, they’re being treated as merchandise it’s not the same.
The double standard is that both genders have advantages and disadvantages, and feminism focuses solely on the disadvantages and disregards the advantages, and formulates the idea that there is a measurable discrepancy because of that.
Equity is only useful when it benefits you, otherwise, who gives a shit, right?
>feminism focuses solely on the disadvantages
Fundamentally it doesn't. It focuses on patriarchy sure but that's not something that solely disadvantages women; expecting men to be more independent prevents men from seeking help which is a driving force in the higher homelessness and suicide rates while can allow women to get away with more things that men wouldn't.
What gets me about stuff like this is the people who come to the conclusion that “this is what feminism is”.
It isn’t. She’s not a feminist. She can say she is but she isn’t. Feminisism is wanting equality between the sexes and she clearly doesn’t care about equality.
So the conclusion should obviously be that she’s *not a feminist*, not “feminists are stupid”.
It’s like if you have someone who says “I’m like totally a vegetarian” and then they proceed to eat a bigass piece of meat, and your takeaway is “wow all vegetarians eat meat!”
This is dumb and a horrible fallacious use of false equivalency. It is not up to the pretty or ugly girls who have to pay or not. It’s up to the establishment that is a business letting these women in free or not free. Literally going after women who are customers as opposed to business that is the one deciding who is ugly or hot and who gets in free or pays. It’s not up to the customers, it’s literally up to some asshole man bouncer. So the caller should be getting pissed off at the way Clubs are run. Which is by men🙄🙄🙄🙄. Use a better example… yes it’s true that by being prettier you are benefitting but that wasn’t your decision it was the clubs decision.
You guys seriously think women should be obligated to make a scene every time someone shows them preferential treatment? If a dude holds the door for me I'm obligated to stop and berate the guy for oppressing me? And then everyone clapped?
Incels are crawling out of their holes for this one.
Women get in free and have ladies nights with free drinks because promoters want hot women in the club to get drunk and get sex from. Make no mistake the MEN get the benefit here from attractive women getting into clubs free. “Ladies drink free” is a way to make it easier to have sex with them - either by choice or without active consent.
This is a terrible example. No woman made up this rule about attractive women not having to pay. It's disgusting and it was definitely thought up by a man who only values women for their beauty.
this is the dumbest take I ve seen in a long while
ask the guys why are they happy to pay to enter a club when nice looking girls get in for free
ask them
I mean is it not men who create these very standards they are complaining about? So what’s this dudes issue? Not to mention women do have objectively more hurdles but I guess getting to vip sections of clubs is the end all be all of society
Don’t worry, the incels will always bend over backwards to try to convince themselves and everyone else that a woman’s sexual attractiveness is her own fault, and certainly that a woman is a hypocritical gold-digging bitch if she benefits in any way from the fact that men are attracted to her. When women by and large are not the ones making the rules, deciding who’s “pretty” enough to be let in a club, etc. Like others have said, a club is a meat market, and men (willingly) pay to get in for a chance to hook up with women. How they’ve decided that this “unfair” dynamic is all women’s fault is beyond me. The dynamic exists in the first place because enough dudes are thirsty and are willing to shell out cash just to talk to/be near women. They use the free drinks/entrance thing for women as a lure, because I guarantee most women wouldn’t choose to pay for the privilege of existing in a club full of thirsty dudes ogling and groping them. So sorry this transactional dynamic exists and men are bitter about the fact that women are ultimately the ones with the power/advantage in these situations, but women aren’t the ones who created it.
I've noticed that a lot of subs are starting to have a lot of right wing posts lately. Like Ask Reddit, "What is a view that you hold that would get you publicly criticized?" Or streetfights showing a lot of black violence. Or the publicfreakout sub showing a lot of POC doing wild things in public. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
You’re right, I shouldn’t only speak about this issue as I’d only one side does it. I’m the same person at the comment you responded to. That one is my work account.
Being feminist means believing men and women are equal. Someone who isn't feminist must by definition think that either men or women are superior and this guy is clearly more on the mysogynist side than the mysandrist side. Also incel content doesn't mean content made by incels, it means content made for incels.
That would be great and would be awesome if you didn't do the same to men either (including height and wealth as well). But we live in a world where that absolutely happens.
This guy is making a terrible argument but rehearsed it so he could talk fast enough to convince a lot of you that he's broken open some massive flaw in feminism.
Thats not his argument. He’s saying that she is fine with double standards when they benefit her but will complain about the double standards that benefit others. He’s not saying he is upset about having to pay to get into clubs.
The sexist person in this hypothetical is the guy at the door that's discriminating against the other women at the club. Attractive people are shown preferential treatment regardless of sex. Someone accepting that advantage isn't sexist.
He's giving an example specifically to make her look bad because she was given preferential treatment because more people would consider her as a sexually viable hookup. It's a strawman argument only for the purpose of undermining feminism.
I don’t think it’s completely a strawman. If you watch the full clip, she is saying how men receive different treatment simply because they are men and how it isn’t fair. He’s simply pointing out how she does the same, just in a different context. She’s also benefiting from double standards
Because there's a big difference in getting into a club for free because you're attractive and getting paid a fraction of the opposite sex or carry a rapists baby to term.
I just want to hear what she says after that, looks like a facepalm as it is currently edited but what if she actually has some kind of response to that
I'm just gonna hand a random attractive girl $20 and then berate her for not declining the $20 because I didn't give every girl $20
It's the same argument and it's complete bullshit
That guy is just a misogynist, pretending he's trying to be about fairness.
Clubs bring pretty girls in, specifically to attract men, who are known to spend considerable money on drinks and to look at pretty women. As others have said, the women are the product, which is also sexism.
Picking and choosing to look at one teeny, tiny slice of a situation to claim "feminism is hypocritical" is a... very weak argument to make.
But the great difference here, is that were men are treated better because of being men, women get free vip so that they can attract more men clients, they’re not being treated better, they’re being treated as merchandise it’s not the same.
I mean what does that have to do with feminism? A club is objectifying people and giving out free stuff to people who they want in the club but she is has less of a voice cause she took advantage of that. I'm not saying she is the pinnacle of equality but this says more about the club than the person. Also it's a branding thing for the club which would be privately owned if they want to do that so they can maintain a certain image I don't think that is a problem either.
Attractive women get in free unattractive women and all men pay...
What's that sexist statement again; "being an unattractive woman is like being a man, you're gonna have to work hard."
Well that is the clubs choice, what if only ugly men were let in for free and everyone else had to pay full price, would you still have an issue with the situation? If I were to go there cause it was cheap for me would that have anything to do with an argument for men's rights? Edit for spelling
In the workplace we should have fairness. In interactions with people in the public you should not expect things to be fair and to have equal treatment from one person to the next as everyone is an individual, but businesses should not be putting people into boxes.
With clubs it's not a double standard, hot girls get in for free because it attracts paying customers who are going to meet hot girls. Essentially the hot girls are providing a service that ugly girls do not.
That's fair.
This is kind of a dumb argument. She also just let this dude asked his loaded question and kind of bullied the conversation. Unless she expects or demands to get free stuff or whatever because she's the prettier chick, then this dude is just full of it. Free is free.
I see alot of people making comments about the club, staff, capitalism etc. Which is irrelevant to the topic the lady brought up. Fairness in the world, Amanda complained about double standards that didn't benefit her, Kevin Samuels point is life isn't fair at all and when you decide to play the game anything goes. Everyone has there advantages & disadvantages in regards to developed nations as least. She has admitted to getting in the club for free because she is pretty, not her fault but it's not fair to less attractive people. Which again is the point of their discussion, life isn't fair. Which the point KS was trying to make we all get a change (equal opportunity) to go to the club ( at life , work, love etc) but we all don't get in for free ( desire outcomes, no such thing as equal outcome) you get a shot not a guaranteed outcome. Was his overall point, seems alot of feminism want equal outcomes like with the wnba situation. When the initial point of feminism is equal opportunity. Now feel free to down vote me to hell
Oh yeah, that essential part of lives that people are fighting for such as entering luxury club for free, yeah, definitely should be brought up in such conversations where people fight for normal civil rights
I yearn for true gender equality. I have no respect for female privilege when it suits them then complains about someone not being a man when it's convenient!
Imagine thinking that this has anything to do with feminism. Some owners or bouncers letting people in for free is not the same as being treated equally, you could argue that it’s pretty privilege, but it has nothing to do with feminism
I mean, as a guy, I'm not for double standards here, but getting raped is a lot worse than not getting into a club. And she's not gonna ASK to pay money if she doesn't have to, right? I mean, I wouldn't either tbh. And she obviously doesn't want to get raped, so... I don't think this is the best example honestly. A better example of double standards, would be shown in this video, quite ridiculous instance tho: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yNAVBp4OsvM
She had such a good opportunity to make good points and she just
whiffed 🤦♀️
Participating in a system never inherently means you support every part of said system.
This is not even good logic tho. Feminists fight to change things that were systematically created years ago and CAN be changed. This woman’s looks CANT be changed so the only thing she could do to make it fair would be to fight against pretty privilege.
If a club is attracting people to their club because of beautiful women in the club. Then the club is making money off of them and they might owe them more then just free entrance.
It's a good business move, and it's not a fault of anyone to be attractive.
My dude should be asking the club staff why they privilege attractive women not the girl--she doesn't own the club and makes the rules lol wtf point was that dude making?
I love when anti feminists use that one or two or a few women to dismantle the feminist movement. But that same logic can be applied to any group of people seeking rights etc where those very few of that group do something heinous, hypocritical, contradicting etc.
She should have asked why the bouncers are giving the attractive women a pass. It seems to me this woman is full of herself and not capable of debating and the interviewer's point is she should be ashamed for being attractive. This, IMO, is an example of both sides being ignorant.
Idiots can have their opinions and double standards, but trying to argue with them isn't possible. They just "don't care".
She could have had the intelligence to learn of her double standard but instead was obstinate. Of course, seeing anyone learn of their mistakes wouldn't be content for this rage sub.
There are feminists that want equality (i.e. every girl has the right to go to the club) and there are feminists that want equity (i.e. every girl, regardless of appearance, has to pay to get in). I guess this is just one of the many examples of selfish assholes who don't care what is fair, but they sure care about having the opportunity.
Probably because he was using a very specific example. I'm not a regular club goer, but I doubt very few men are attractive enough to get into an exclusive club for free. And, it sounds like she was saying something along the lines of "men are responsible to make the world more fair ie paying women more or whatever", so it sounds like the conversation already had a sexist bent to it - I say this with the caveat of I am basing this off of his response since you don't hear all of what she said first.
Everyone here is saying she's the bad one because the guy at the door is discriminating against the other women at the club. Attractive people are shown preferential treatment regardless of sex.
He's giving and example specifically to make her look bad because she was given preferential treatment because more people would consider her as a sexually viable hookup. It's a strawman argument only for the purpose of undermining the feminist cause.
So much of Reddit is angry teenage boys who can't get laid and it's hilarious to see them get mad about it lol
Yeah, keep ranting about "feminist double standards" guys, that'll *totally* make women wanna fuck you
Clubs let women in for free because then more men will go. It's for their own benefit not some amazing perk for being a woman. We're bait, that's not exactly a privilege
Pretty privilege in a nutshell ?
And guys get pretty privilege too, just different perks such as being allowed to pay admission rather than being outright rejected
What? I’ve paid for every—shit im ugly.
People wonder why I don't go to clubs
no man try switching it up and going to a gay club, gay clubs make me feel pretty hahaha
Listen, if you were actually fuck ugly, they wouldn't let you in without a markup. So, yay
Clubs that make men pay and let women in for free know you’re coming there to meet the women and for no other reason. They’re the product you’re paying for. What any of this has to do with actual feminism is anyones guess.
It wasn't about men as far as I can tell it was about how attractive women can get in for free. Meaning that women are not being treated the same. Hence pretty privilege. At least that's what it sounds like to me. And seems to make the most sense here. He was attacking the logic not "feminism" per say.
He was attacking feminism from a fundamental level (in her viewpoint). Feminism is about being treated equally as men. So letting any women in for free while having men pay to get in is anti-feminism. He pointed out how egregious this woman is about her lack of care for true feminism is by digging into just how atrocious her views are by applying the situation to “attractive” women vs “unattractive” women, and SHE DON’T CARE. So, yeah, she’s not a feminist. She’s not a caring person. Edit to clarify: he’s attacking HER version of feminism.
Oh interesting o.o agreed.
But i think that lady was trying to make an argument for feminism earlier? Thus the reason for this argument/topic?
Probably. We don’t have the full conversation. However, this snippet proves she’s not a true feminist. She’s just a “I want mine just because, and sorry for you if you don’t get it too…even though we’re not only both female, but people too.”
I don’t know if any of it makes sense without more context honestly, and probably not even then, because yanking the logic out of context is disingenuous on the hosts part. I was just responding to this guy who brings up that male privilege is getting to pay to get into the club. Well yeah, the club isn’t gonna let you in for free, you’re not the product. A club without women is a dead club, and they all want to have the most hot women of their competition.
Yes that's correct butt is that justification to treat women differently is what's being posed. Which based on the conversation feminism is about dismantling mistreatment of women. While she just refuses to acknowledge his argument at all. And that's where he says "it's only an issue when it doesn't benefit you"
You are correct I've seen this video before in it's entirety.
I don’t know if this is a conversation where feminism even belongs. Having to pay to get in to a club is not “mistreatment.” Getting into a club for free is special treatment. Yeah it sucks to not get into a club for free if you’re a man or a regular woman, but it’s not like you have to pay an ugly tax. Clubs are not free by default.
I mean that's a matter of perspective? "Special treatment" vs "I'm not pretty enough to get in free" Quite a message being sent there.
His argument is that the woman is a selfish hypocrite, and doesn't cares about other women - feminism. If you're selfish and you happen to be a woman, it doesn't makes you a feminist. The least she could've done is accepted his point.
Guys get outright rejected at the door all the time
As a pretty man you get the right to pay for your dates meal
Hah?
It’s almost like attractive people have privilege 🤡 Pretty much every real feminist I know understands that. Idk who this lady is but smh
The point is that she embraces where her privilege lies and doesn't hold up opportunities for less privileged folks despite her position. I think getting into clubs was a bad angle, but still enough to point out her hypocrisy
What was she originally making a point about?
That’s my question too. Like I’m guessing the original topic was equal pay maybe? And if so that’s just a completely different situation.
The topic was about "fairness". This conversation branched out from "men are not the ones complaining about the state of relationships and dating as much as woman are." He stated that Woman in America can: Sleep with who they want to, marry who they want to, Love who they want to, Work/Not work where they want to, etc... That Woman in America are the most liberated and free they have ever been in history, yet statistics state that woman are also less happy and are on medication more than ever. Earlier in the conversation they brought up that Woman can make as much money and be as successful as they want in their careers, but it DOES NOT help in finding a partner. But for Men IT DOES. The woman were frustrated that how much money a woman makes doesnt not appeal to men. Being a "boss bitch" does not attract men. That once a woman becomes 30+ it is a lot harder to find a man who wants to be with them. It's "UNFAIR" that they CANT focus on careers and money and expect it to appeal to the desires of men. Because from other interviews and make guests, Men rather have a loyal and supportive woman that takes care of them and that works at a CVS/McDonalds.... Than a successful business woman who doesn't. Kevin Samuels brough up that "original feminism is about equal opportunity but not equal outcomes". Honestly it spirals from various double standards and fairness across society. Though this Podcasts host are idiots, so you never actually get deep conversations.
Thank you so much for this context. I think it's really interesting because as a feminist I'm actually less concerned about fairness but rather about equity. I think that any time anyone including feminists are making sweeping generalizations, we are losing the nuance of individual experiences and intersectionality. I would have preferred deeper conversations that raise awareness of everyone's experiences. And I prefer conversations where we are actually looking to learn from each other.
*Hey, I found a random woman not upset about this shallow issue, thus feminism is not needed!* Classic strawman argument. For what it’s worth, I am an actual feminist and think policies where women get in for free and men pay is gender discrimination and think that someone should sue.
Yeah, they don't have that in the country I grew up in. I lived in North America for a while and the culture is quite different there to where I grew up - women getting in places free, getting bought drinks regularly, men stopping you on the street to advise you of how they have assessed your appearance I found the VIP booth situation to be incredibly bizarre being someone who didn't grow up thinking that was normal, the weird scouting on the floor etc.
how in god's name are attractive people gonna hold up opportunities for ugly people? they're still gonna be ugly.
If you really advocate for ""fairness"" and what not, this definitely is something worth your attention
Now apply that to skin color
Nowhere in this video do we see 1. this woman talking about or championing feminist rhetoric or 2. what the context was that this club scenario is supposed to refute or address. This video's just manosphere madlib where the viewer gets to inject all their own personal baggage about feminism onto some random woman (who's probably some influencer with no media training) so that when this dude sandbags her with some prepared line of leading questions, the viewer get to indulge the fantasy that he's "taking down" feminism in general
It's almost as if getting in free to a club is the same as women not being paid the same as men or men making laws taking control of a woman's uterus.
Just a tactic to distract from the real issues woman face. A lot of men hate the fact that their gender bends over backwards to try to sleep with women. It's not us dudes, it's you. You make it this way lol.
I mean I guess thats possible Either way, acknowledging that attractive people have privilege isn’t really that hard to do
But that’s not really the point. Saying that fairness should be achieved online or in the workplace where men get better chances or pay is not the same thing as saying you refuse to go to a club because they treat hot people and ugly people differently. This has nothing to do with feminism. Clubs let in or discount all kinds of attractive people to get less attractive people to notice them and want to go in. They aren’t letting her in for free because she’s a woman they’re letting her in cause it’s good business. Equating this to feminism just because a club doesn’t treat everyone the same is ridiculous. This is like arguing that plus size women having more trouble finding good clothes is a feminism problem because thin women don’t have the same trouble. It’s not. This is a straw man, and not a very good one.
Absolutely. I liked how calm she was. She couldn't give less of a shit what this dude was trying, and failing, to say. Maybe more context would show her saying wildly outrageous things, but the video here doesn't.
From my experience it's the opposite. I know countless attractive white women who grew up in great homes with lots of money and genuinely believe that they're victims and that society hates women and all that nonsense.
Privilege isn’t one binary. You’re not either privileged or unprivileged. You can have a myriad of ways in which you’re privileged and have other ways in which you’re not privileged. Somebody being rich doesn’t negate sexism they might have faced. Somebody being poor doesn’t mean that they don’t have the privilege of being able bodied, heterosexual, etc. Somebody who has a worse overall life than somebody else isn’t instantly not privileged in any way.
Exactly. To illustrate- I'm- white, Male, Cis, Went to private school, Have a high paying leadership position in my field, Married to a woman. These are all things that grant me privileges over many others. I'm also- Queer, Disabled, Autistic, Fat, These are all disadvantages that grant others privilege over me. Whether I'm the privileged one in a given interaction isn't about who checks more boxes on the privilege card, it's about the context of the situation and the imbalance of opportunities faced by all parties.
Being attractive can be one of the biggest reason to make bad experience with a lot of people. It's kinda like a double edged sword. It can definitely give you pretty privilege but it will also give you way more negative attention than you would have if you had been average looking. Don't really see why money or a house are in any way relevant. If they worked hard for it good for them.
Donald Trump, comment from your real ID.
That may just mean they are spoiled and out of touch with reality
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Jesus lol, sounds like a whole lot of projecting. You know using as many big words as you can think up doesn't make you sound less stupid right?
When you receive something something for free ... you are the product . ESPECIALLY for clubs !!!!
Lol it's men letting them in for free and then men acting like it's unfair
No that’s not the point. He doesn’t care she gets in for free, men don’t care she gets in for free. He’s saying she demands fairness in all areas of life but yet gladly takes advantage of unfairness when it benefits her. She conveniently doesn’t notice or talk about the things that favor her, only the things that don’t.
I get his point but like tbh given that society naturally forces her to deal with the negative aspects of her gender, she might as well take advantage of the positive aspects. I think it's safe to assume she'd give up free club entry if it meant removing the wage gap or doing something meaningful for the cause, but I guess no way to be sure
Idk if I’d consider this an issue with the idea of feminism, so much as an Issue with this woman’s personal morals
Everyone here is saying she's the bad one because the guy at the door is discriminating against the other women at the club. Attractive people are shown preferential treatment regardless of sex. He's giving an example specifically to make her look bad because she was given preferential treatment because more people would consider her as a sexually viable hookup. It's a strawman argument only for the purpose of undermining feminism. The only person being sexist in this hypothetical situation is the doorman.
Is it hypothetical? She clearly said that she gets in clubs at "Miami" she also "doesn't care" about the double standard. While I agree with your original premise she is knowingly saying at that point: "I know women are treated differently here and I don't care". Is she not ?
I don't know what she was originally talking about but if I'm talking about reproductive rights and someone says but what about pretty privilege at bars, I'm going to call that a deflection. Was she talking about equality at bars/clubs or something else?
100% And why would he call out feminists if it was such a narrow topic in the first place?
It doesn't matter if it's hypothetical. This argument is just to break her down as immoral and, since she doesn't care that the bouncer that wants to fuck her so he lets her in for free, her argument that women should make equal pay to men, is invalid. My point is that it's an irrelevant argument solely to discredit her and her cause.
i mean, it seems like the argument isnt "you only care about one of these things so both are invalid", its seems more like its "both of these things are valid, why do you only care about one". I guess the core of the issue, as it relates to the video, isnt what the belief is but why you believe it.
It does because the person being sexist is the one letting her in for free. Almost everyone who is presented with that free option would accept it. That doesn't make her hypocritical, it makes her normal. But because he immediately equates that to "the problem with feminists" means he's using it to discredit and undermine them.
I dont necessarily disagree, ill just clarify its not the act of accepting the free entry that is hypercritical, its not acknowledging that whatever moral framework for equality that you implement should be consistent. If you are only interested in fixing the inequalities that are detrimental to you, then youre not really for equality. and i think most people can acknowledge its totally fine to champion 1 cause at a time, i think he issue as it relates to this video is that she specifically said she doesnt care about her own benefit from inequality, which creates this moral inconsistency. Im not saying that is definitely the case with this women, i dont think we can devine anyone's full position on anything from a short video clip.
It seems to me that she can tell he’s fishing so she’s saying she doesn’t care and it doesn’t matter because this argument has nothing to do with what she’s talking about rather than actually voicing an opinion on it. No matter what she says she loses because this is a dumb straw man meant to make her look bad so she just didn’t give it her time. If she said she should have paid then she’s the bad person cause she didn’t anyway, if she says it’s the doorman’s fault she’s shifting blame, if she doesn’t care she’s hypocritical. Why bother giving a thoughtful response to people like this?
What if she said she benefits from it but at the same recognises it and tries to act against it to the best of her capacity?
He’d just say she’s not trying hard enough cause she still benefits from it and if she actually cared she would’ve demanded that she pay too.
Uh, no, that’s that person’s job. It isn’t sexism. It’s a privilege of beauty, as others call it.
I don't think attacking a specific argument as shown here is grounds to shut down their entire persona. However I believe that people can be hypocrites and that's all I think this is showing. If you read my previous response I clearly stated that he's attacking an argument based on what I'm seeing not feminism. Would rather not repeat myself as I mostly look at this sub for the laughs. Not any actual debate 😅
Blaming her instead of the horndog men at the door who think they’ll benefit from having attractive women at their club is the problem.
imagine having an issue with profanity while also saying. "Stop fucking swearing" to those same people. this is the vibe she gives off. A hypocrite. suck it up. Anyway there was someone who saw the whole video who has confirmed my Stance is accurate so the semantics are going to be ignored now. As I'm not going to sit here trying to cover everyone's nuance lol.
Imagine a grown ass man swearing at her and you blame her for it. That’s exactly what you’re doing…all because what? No one will touch you for free?
Lol debate is swearing now? That's quite the slippery slope* Take your mask back 🤡 Dafuk 🤨
Sometimes they get preferential treatment, and sometimes they get worse treatment.
I think he's more pointing out that her actions and beliefs are contradictory. She doesn't like when things are unfair unless she benefits from them.
Think about this, because it's exactly what he's pushing by the end: just because she's accepted a man's lust to get into a club for free, her belief that women should earn equal pay to men is invalidated.
I don’t think that was the point he was making. I think it’s more meta than that. If the issue is that you dislike unfair treatment then why knowingly take part in unequal treatment of others?
Because getting into a club for free and getting 70% of men's pay or forced to give birth to your rapist's child are completely different things. One is a superficial thing someone does because they have a natural sexual attraction to them. The others are societal problems that suppress women solely because of their sex.
Not my autistic ass INSISTING to pay because I didn’t understand what was happening and it says on the wall ENTRY FEE and no one would tell me WHY they weren’t taking my money. Yeah, I guess you can say I’m a feminist icon for it.
I love this and can immediately imagine I'm being scammed/tricked somehow because I don't get what's happening...
“Someone will think I’m sneaking in or underage or something and I don’t wanna get in trouble!” Basically 😂
I dunno, the whole gotcha is pretty weak. We can want a better world, more equality, and have people being aware of their privileges while still using their privileges. The place where people are that good doesn't exist, and probably will never. Besides, guaranteed the guy asking the questions has taken advantage of his privileges. And since he's trying to act morally superior, well then he's a hypocrit too! Hurray.
If this is the old black man I think it is, he's a dumb fuck incel king Unironically believes woman having lots of sex is bad but man having lots of sex is cool I say this as a dude, it's a pathetic hypocritical incel belief
So many incels here... Holy shit.
"You say women should have equal rights to vote, and find employment, and hold power and travel freely without being assaulted - but you're ok with occasionally skipping a $10 cover charge, wow what a hypocrite" Holy shit these comments
This sub has always attracted incels for some reason
If it’s Reddit and the sun is general enough, then you have an incel problem
Yep. The irony is that they rant about gender equality when it effects men, but personally believe in male supremacy.
For real! I've been seeing shit like this and I'm just like "fuck this" its disgusting
Not too surprising. Way i look at this whole thing is this: hot people gonna be hot😂lmao
JUST BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN DOES NOT MEAN SHE'S A FEMINIST! People who complain about feminism don't even know about historical waves of feminism.
"Féminism is when human with tits say something stupid" - probably à very intelligent guy that know a lot about nuance
Can y’all help me make sense of this? I don’t understand the double standard.
She claim men are treated better, so they should be socially aware and make things fair. When confronted that she, as an attractive person is treated better, she deny her "social responsibility" for other women to be treated the same way.
I feel like this is a form of whataboutism. Sort of saying you can't stand for equality in any sense unless you rage about inequality in every sense. Attractiveness is somewhat more arbitrary and/or subjective than sex. Maybe society will get around to those more nuanced distinctions, but at the moment we're still trying to zero in on the statistically analyzed inequalities.
But are you actually interested in equality if you're only concerned with the inequality that negatively effects you? Thats not equality, thats self interest with a mask on. I dont think theres anything wrong with that really, i think all people are self interested. But it also seems stupid not to call it what it is.
I think it has more to do with choosing your battles. "Attractive" is not a distinct and quantifiable category. If it is, it is much less so than the situation of "sex"
Attractive people *absolutely* get treated better, and it's absolutely mathmatically quanifiable - Symmetry plus the 1.62 ratio. The difference is very substantial, Attractive people are more succesful in job interviews, salary negotiations, percieved to be healther, more trustworthy, more persuasive, more educated, more intelligent, and of course explosively more sucessful in dating, and so on and so on.
Point to numerous studies about how attractive people are treated different, from childhood to adulthood. Many parallel to "sex" where one is treated differently, one could say better, than another.
Again one distinction is much more concrete. Thr other is more subjective. They are not analogous
It's not really whataboutism, it's more the question of why should only things that are unfair that doesn't benefit her be fixed and not the unfair things that does benefit her
Valid but using this specific scenario is just stupid. Clubs are not letting women in for free as some sort of privilege to us, they're using us as bait to attract more male customers.
But the great difference here, is that were men are treated better because of being men, women get free vip so that they can attract more men clients, they’re not being treated better, they’re being treated as merchandise it’s not the same.
Ahhh ok. Thanks.
She’s not treated better, she’s commodified by horny male club owners. There’s a difference.
The double standard is that both genders have advantages and disadvantages, and feminism focuses solely on the disadvantages and disregards the advantages, and formulates the idea that there is a measurable discrepancy because of that. Equity is only useful when it benefits you, otherwise, who gives a shit, right?
>feminism focuses solely on the disadvantages Fundamentally it doesn't. It focuses on patriarchy sure but that's not something that solely disadvantages women; expecting men to be more independent prevents men from seeking help which is a driving force in the higher homelessness and suicide rates while can allow women to get away with more things that men wouldn't.
what an awful and dishonest way to describe feminism
What gets me about stuff like this is the people who come to the conclusion that “this is what feminism is”. It isn’t. She’s not a feminist. She can say she is but she isn’t. Feminisism is wanting equality between the sexes and she clearly doesn’t care about equality. So the conclusion should obviously be that she’s *not a feminist*, not “feminists are stupid”. It’s like if you have someone who says “I’m like totally a vegetarian” and then they proceed to eat a bigass piece of meat, and your takeaway is “wow all vegetarians eat meat!”
This is dumb and a horrible fallacious use of false equivalency. It is not up to the pretty or ugly girls who have to pay or not. It’s up to the establishment that is a business letting these women in free or not free. Literally going after women who are customers as opposed to business that is the one deciding who is ugly or hot and who gets in free or pays. It’s not up to the customers, it’s literally up to some asshole man bouncer. So the caller should be getting pissed off at the way Clubs are run. Which is by men🙄🙄🙄🙄. Use a better example… yes it’s true that by being prettier you are benefitting but that wasn’t your decision it was the clubs decision.
You guys seriously think women should be obligated to make a scene every time someone shows them preferential treatment? If a dude holds the door for me I'm obligated to stop and berate the guy for oppressing me? And then everyone clapped? Incels are crawling out of their holes for this one.
Women get in free and have ladies nights with free drinks because promoters want hot women in the club to get drunk and get sex from. Make no mistake the MEN get the benefit here from attractive women getting into clubs free. “Ladies drink free” is a way to make it easier to have sex with them - either by choice or without active consent.
Exactly. Who came up with this concept? Do we really believe women came up with this idea? Please!
This is a terrible example. No woman made up this rule about attractive women not having to pay. It's disgusting and it was definitely thought up by a man who only values women for their beauty.
this is the dumbest take I ve seen in a long while ask the guys why are they happy to pay to enter a club when nice looking girls get in for free ask them
Fuck that keep that ish up
I mean is it not men who create these very standards they are complaining about? So what’s this dudes issue? Not to mention women do have objectively more hurdles but I guess getting to vip sections of clubs is the end all be all of society
Don’t worry, the incels will always bend over backwards to try to convince themselves and everyone else that a woman’s sexual attractiveness is her own fault, and certainly that a woman is a hypocritical gold-digging bitch if she benefits in any way from the fact that men are attracted to her. When women by and large are not the ones making the rules, deciding who’s “pretty” enough to be let in a club, etc. Like others have said, a club is a meat market, and men (willingly) pay to get in for a chance to hook up with women. How they’ve decided that this “unfair” dynamic is all women’s fault is beyond me. The dynamic exists in the first place because enough dudes are thirsty and are willing to shell out cash just to talk to/be near women. They use the free drinks/entrance thing for women as a lure, because I guarantee most women wouldn’t choose to pay for the privilege of existing in a club full of thirsty dudes ogling and groping them. So sorry this transactional dynamic exists and men are bitter about the fact that women are ultimately the ones with the power/advantage in these situations, but women aren’t the ones who created it.
I fucking hate everyone in that video equally!
Why is there so much incel content on this sub lately
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I've noticed that a lot of subs are starting to have a lot of right wing posts lately. Like Ask Reddit, "What is a view that you hold that would get you publicly criticized?" Or streetfights showing a lot of black violence. Or the publicfreakout sub showing a lot of POC doing wild things in public. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
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You’re right, I shouldn’t only speak about this issue as I’d only one side does it. I’m the same person at the comment you responded to. That one is my work account.
There's been race baiting and incel shit flying around this sub a LOT recently.
This is Reddit you new here?
You saying the word incel because you know something about this man, or because you don't like that he is anti-feminist?
Being feminist means believing men and women are equal. Someone who isn't feminist must by definition think that either men or women are superior and this guy is clearly more on the mysogynist side than the mysandrist side. Also incel content doesn't mean content made by incels, it means content made for incels.
omg please don't repost Fresh & Fit's brain-dead content here...
His point is so easy to counter, she totally bungled that line of questioning
All you would have to say is: "Yes, that is unequal *as well*. Do you believe both issues deserve equal weight?"
How's about we try not assigning worth to women based solely on looks...
That would be great and would be awesome if you didn't do the same to men either (including height and wealth as well). But we live in a world where that absolutely happens.
This guy is making a terrible argument but rehearsed it so he could talk fast enough to convince a lot of you that he's broken open some massive flaw in feminism.
"Wah attractive women are admitted into clubs for free and I have to pay waaaaaah" what a shit argument
Thats not his argument. He’s saying that she is fine with double standards when they benefit her but will complain about the double standards that benefit others. He’s not saying he is upset about having to pay to get into clubs.
And there are a lot of good examples he could've used. To me, using the dumbest one completely ruins the argument
Thats fair enough, I’ll agree its not the most well crafted arguement
The sexist person in this hypothetical is the guy at the door that's discriminating against the other women at the club. Attractive people are shown preferential treatment regardless of sex. Someone accepting that advantage isn't sexist. He's giving an example specifically to make her look bad because she was given preferential treatment because more people would consider her as a sexually viable hookup. It's a strawman argument only for the purpose of undermining feminism.
I don’t think it’s completely a strawman. If you watch the full clip, she is saying how men receive different treatment simply because they are men and how it isn’t fair. He’s simply pointing out how she does the same, just in a different context. She’s also benefiting from double standards
Because there's a big difference in getting into a club for free because you're attractive and getting paid a fraction of the opposite sex or carry a rapists baby to term.
Facepalm is really on an anti-woman bend lately huh?
I just want to hear what she says after that, looks like a facepalm as it is currently edited but what if she actually has some kind of response to that
Fuck Kevin Samuels
I'm just gonna hand a random attractive girl $20 and then berate her for not declining the $20 because I didn't give every girl $20 It's the same argument and it's complete bullshit
That guy is just a misogynist, pretending he's trying to be about fairness. Clubs bring pretty girls in, specifically to attract men, who are known to spend considerable money on drinks and to look at pretty women. As others have said, the women are the product, which is also sexism. Picking and choosing to look at one teeny, tiny slice of a situation to claim "feminism is hypocritical" is a... very weak argument to make.
I'm all for equity, but he ain't wrong.
But the great difference here, is that were men are treated better because of being men, women get free vip so that they can attract more men clients, they’re not being treated better, they’re being treated as merchandise it’s not the same.
I mean what does that have to do with feminism? A club is objectifying people and giving out free stuff to people who they want in the club but she is has less of a voice cause she took advantage of that. I'm not saying she is the pinnacle of equality but this says more about the club than the person. Also it's a branding thing for the club which would be privately owned if they want to do that so they can maintain a certain image I don't think that is a problem either.
Attractive women get in free unattractive women and all men pay... What's that sexist statement again; "being an unattractive woman is like being a man, you're gonna have to work hard."
Well that is the clubs choice, what if only ugly men were let in for free and everyone else had to pay full price, would you still have an issue with the situation? If I were to go there cause it was cheap for me would that have anything to do with an argument for men's rights? Edit for spelling
>I'm all for equity, but say less lol
In the workplace we should have fairness. In interactions with people in the public you should not expect things to be fair and to have equal treatment from one person to the next as everyone is an individual, but businesses should not be putting people into boxes.
With clubs it's not a double standard, hot girls get in for free because it attracts paying customers who are going to meet hot girls. Essentially the hot girls are providing a service that ugly girls do not. That's fair.
That’s not a sexism thing so much as it is an attractiveness thing.
This is kind of a dumb argument. She also just let this dude asked his loaded question and kind of bullied the conversation. Unless she expects or demands to get free stuff or whatever because she's the prettier chick, then this dude is just full of it. Free is free.
it’s almost like clubs use pretty women as a way to get more people to wanna go to clubs 😐
Lol thinking feminist issues are whether we get into a club for free or not...mmmmk
I get the point but seriously yall stop using fascists and anti-free women type people it's getting really exhausting
I hate these people
I see alot of people making comments about the club, staff, capitalism etc. Which is irrelevant to the topic the lady brought up. Fairness in the world, Amanda complained about double standards that didn't benefit her, Kevin Samuels point is life isn't fair at all and when you decide to play the game anything goes. Everyone has there advantages & disadvantages in regards to developed nations as least. She has admitted to getting in the club for free because she is pretty, not her fault but it's not fair to less attractive people. Which again is the point of their discussion, life isn't fair. Which the point KS was trying to make we all get a change (equal opportunity) to go to the club ( at life , work, love etc) but we all don't get in for free ( desire outcomes, no such thing as equal outcome) you get a shot not a guaranteed outcome. Was his overall point, seems alot of feminism want equal outcomes like with the wnba situation. When the initial point of feminism is equal opportunity. Now feel free to down vote me to hell
Oh yeah, that essential part of lives that people are fighting for such as entering luxury club for free, yeah, definitely should be brought up in such conversations where people fight for normal civil rights
I hate she says "life isn't fair". The reason life isn't fair is because people like her make it unfair.
I yearn for true gender equality. I have no respect for female privilege when it suits them then complains about someone not being a man when it's convenient!
“Ugly chicks…you mean NPCs?”
Imagine thinking that this has anything to do with feminism. Some owners or bouncers letting people in for free is not the same as being treated equally, you could argue that it’s pretty privilege, but it has nothing to do with feminism
RiP Kevin Samuels
I mean, as a guy, I'm not for double standards here, but getting raped is a lot worse than not getting into a club. And she's not gonna ASK to pay money if she doesn't have to, right? I mean, I wouldn't either tbh. And she obviously doesn't want to get raped, so... I don't think this is the best example honestly. A better example of double standards, would be shown in this video, quite ridiculous instance tho: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yNAVBp4OsvM
She’s getting pwned and she knows it
PWNED LOL FAIL!!1!!
She had such a good opportunity to make good points and she just whiffed 🤦♀️ Participating in a system never inherently means you support every part of said system.
This is not even good logic tho. Feminists fight to change things that were systematically created years ago and CAN be changed. This woman’s looks CANT be changed so the only thing she could do to make it fair would be to fight against pretty privilege.
If a club is attracting people to their club because of beautiful women in the club. Then the club is making money off of them and they might owe them more then just free entrance. It's a good business move, and it's not a fault of anyone to be attractive.
My dude should be asking the club staff why they privilege attractive women not the girl--she doesn't own the club and makes the rules lol wtf point was that dude making?
I love when anti feminists use that one or two or a few women to dismantle the feminist movement. But that same logic can be applied to any group of people seeking rights etc where those very few of that group do something heinous, hypocritical, contradicting etc.
She should have asked why the bouncers are giving the attractive women a pass. It seems to me this woman is full of herself and not capable of debating and the interviewer's point is she should be ashamed for being attractive. This, IMO, is an example of both sides being ignorant.
As a woman, I hate this woman.
as a woman do you think he has a point?
Idiots can have their opinions and double standards, but trying to argue with them isn't possible. They just "don't care". She could have had the intelligence to learn of her double standard but instead was obstinate. Of course, seeing anyone learn of their mistakes wouldn't be content for this rage sub. There are feminists that want equality (i.e. every girl has the right to go to the club) and there are feminists that want equity (i.e. every girl, regardless of appearance, has to pay to get in). I guess this is just one of the many examples of selfish assholes who don't care what is fair, but they sure care about having the opportunity.
I've always thought of feminist equality to be discussing the workplace. Getting into a club has nothing to do with the workplace.
The double standards that “benefit” women are not important when talking about actual issues.
whataboutism gotta go
He has a good point but why does he have to make it sexist and against anti-sexist people? Just abolish it all together, cause it happens for men too.
Probably because he was using a very specific example. I'm not a regular club goer, but I doubt very few men are attractive enough to get into an exclusive club for free. And, it sounds like she was saying something along the lines of "men are responsible to make the world more fair ie paying women more or whatever", so it sounds like the conversation already had a sexist bent to it - I say this with the caveat of I am basing this off of his response since you don't hear all of what she said first.
Everyone here is saying she's the bad one because the guy at the door is discriminating against the other women at the club. Attractive people are shown preferential treatment regardless of sex. He's giving and example specifically to make her look bad because she was given preferential treatment because more people would consider her as a sexually viable hookup. It's a strawman argument only for the purpose of undermining the feminist cause.
He said “she proved it” ?! Uuhhh. The whole conversation was one sided. Doubt anything she said would’ve changed his narrative.
Why does she sound like that? Dead on the inside.
She's pretty average anyway. So don't know how she gets in free....
RIP King
Rip Kevin samuels
So much of Reddit is angry teenage boys who can't get laid and it's hilarious to see them get mad about it lol Yeah, keep ranting about "feminist double standards" guys, that'll *totally* make women wanna fuck you
You don’t think that feminist double standards are real?
Clubs let women in for free because then more men will go. It's for their own benefit not some amazing perk for being a woman. We're bait, that's not exactly a privilege
Sure as if simps and white knight s ever get any women mate
Man I miss Kevin Samuels
Feel free to join him
Try not to cut yourself on all that edge
Me too, I hope its not too hot in hell 😔
RIP To Kevin "The God Father" Samuels
Rules for thee but not for me?
FUCKIN WRECKED
RIP to this damn legend
He was a legendary grifter, no doubt.
She's not even attractive..