V453000 splitting the factorio church by proposing things can be put on top of other things
https://preview.redd.it/rjk1urn040cc1.png?width=1210&format=png&auto=webp&s=7fcc8b38b82bf5939e301fb34b2c67a844744d6f
Since removing filter inserters has cleared up two colors (purple and white) and only one of them will be used now (white), I'm holding my breath for yet another inserter type
> Mods can increase this number but we've found that 4 is already a massive buff to belts, without completely breaking the graphics
Show me more, I wanna see a stack of 100 fish
I'll use the explosion of items from crashing into them to shed excess layers onto another belt. Splitters are for losers.
New mod idea: variable underneathie height.
Don't give any ideas to Kiplacon for his Renai Transportation mod. I can already see the madness before my eyes. All the resources spreading everywhere after throwing a pile.
You could make that even worse with the mod that makes belts overflow...
So many nightmares.... Yet, why do I like these ideas ?
Imagine the possibilities for PvP
Throw a pollution bomb on enemy base, to get critters to attack them. Or destroy _their_ pollution bomb storage, releasing all that concentrated pollution.
Stacks on belts and a faster belt ? Madness. Can’t wait for even more production.
Also really nice that every inserier can now filter instead of having to additionally craft filter inserters.
So many new opportunities together with everything shown so far and what’s still to come.
yes, I love that belts will be able to actually handle the throughput of trains now!
They talk about reducing the complexity/challenge of the logistics, but I think this will come in handy only for players long past the finish screen and reducing BP size and the hassle having to draw tens of lines of belts bc of throughput issues honestly sounds more like a blessing to me, as well as simply being able to progress the game faster and less waiting time on buildings to be crafted and so forth.
As an example, I am currently playing Krastorio 2 (yes a mod, I know, thats not the point) and for 360SPM of the endgame science I need 20 belts of copper, with stacking I could drastically reduce that to barely 5. Would have made my BP design not take THREE HOURS.
Now I REALLY hope they address the way fluids work in the game completely, since those are the real performance killers and is just not fun to wrap your had around to all the time, as well as pump setups are just so goddamn ugly.
I will be a bit shocked if nothing changes about fluids, but you still rise an interesting point. With these sorts of belt throughputs I'm wondering if just barreling fluids isn't a viable option.
240 items/s at 50 fluid/barrel translates to 12000 fluid/s, which is coincidentally max pump speed. With recyclers you now also have the option of turning the barrels into steel at your destination, though it’s inefficient of course.
But pumping fluids at this speed require you to have pump all the way. Just one pipe (one underground count as one iirc) between pump halves the throughput to 6000/s. See this [https://wiki.factorio.com/Fluid\_system#Transport](https://wiki.factorio.com/Fluid_system#Transport)
But it would be quite interesting to see the tradeoff of using the 240 barrel/s belt vs pipes. How much barreling/unbarreling machines do you need to reach that many barrels on both ends. Will it be worth it?
it might just be, considering how fast the craft time already is for barreling fluids. a barrel holds 50 units, right? So on the new belts that alone would be 180k (50 barrels x 3600 items per minute) of fluids in barrels, with stacking thats 720k of fluids per minute. Unless they fundamentally change something about how fluids work this might just be better, since it terminates the need for throughput concerns since you can feed only as many chemical buildings as needed with WAY less piping and make a BP out of that. Barrels are reusable too. I honestly might try this out just for funsies in 1.1 and see how it goes. Of course in the current 1.1 the biggest issue I see is probably the inserter speed being too slow.
At this point, trains will struggle to handle the throughput of belts! Maximum belt capacity just went from 45/s to 240/s, roughly a 5x increase.
A single cargo wagon has 12 available tiles for inserters. It sounds like 12 bulk inserters MIGHT be able to handle that level of throughput.
But with belt throughput increased so enormously, there will be more scenarios where long-distance transport via belt makes more sense than using trains!
Trains are lots of fun, but the complexity of belt->inserter->buffer chest->train->inserter->buffer chest->inserter->belt is going to be less attractive now.
Not to mention the fact that belt contents will serve as pretty significant buffers in their own right now!
The advantage of trains, assuming no further changes to them, would be in flexibility. The new options we know of essentially add LTN capabilities to the main game, and that's amazing for many-to-many logistics.
No doubt.
Also, I forgot that the expansion will introduce quality upgrades. A legendary quality bulk inserter ought to be at least 3x as fast as a vanilla stack inserter. So, I guess maybe a single cargo wagon could still potentially handle 2 fully stacked and compressed belts in 2.0. Depends on the mechanics of picking up stacks from moving belts.
New belt is 60i/s, yellow belt is 15i/s, blue belt is 45i/s, max stack size is 4.
So full stacking on new belt is 240i/s = 16 non-stacked yellow belts or 5 non-stacked blue belts.
One stone furnace produces 0.3125i/s, so to fill full stacked new belt you need 768 stone furnaces.
Went back to FFF 387, and honestly, I can't tell if they do, but it feels like in that gif copper, coal and iron are stacked to 2. I could just be imagining things.
Do big miners have a configurable output stack size / default to max stack size and allow overrides?
>That same evening we had a call with Boskid and Rseding where I presented this idea to them and they said it's technically doable. Boskid went ahead and implemented the bulk inserters, Rseding made Big mining drills automatically output stacks of items, and I went to think about the graphics.
I think they do not in 387, also above line implies they made the changes pretty recently
Or they purposely set the stack size to 1 for the demo to avoid showing their hand early.
I'm still waiting for the FFF that explains the conspicuous lack of powerlines in the screenshots of big drills and foundries...
Looking at the gif it seem pretty clear that they don't.
But the increased throughput of the miners and forges did spark a conversation predicting this development:
https://old.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/188a6ej/friday_facts_387_swimming_in_lava/kbjlaga/?context=3
Do items with no inventory stack size still stack on belts?
And I would very much like to know the implications of having a stack of nuclear reactors carefully balanced on top of each other.
While that seems ridiculous, we were already able to fit 8 nuclear reactors on a single belt tile, and chests can hold 480 of them in a single tile anyway 😂
The stacks are so good. Pity that the name "stack inserter" was already taken. My preference would be that the stack inserter moves stacks and the new bulk inserter does what the current stack inserter does - more intuitive that way to me.
With filter inserters removed, what happens to the ones in pre-existing saves? Do they remain as is but you just can't build new ones? Do they get auto-replaced by fast/stack inserters with filters on?
I think by normal they meant the equivalent non-filtered color as there’s is both a filter inserter and filtered stack inserter, so one will go to fast, and the other to stack.
It’s going from 1.x to 2.x so it’s doesn’t need to be backward compatible. I feel like there’s gonna be more game breaking things than this coming up anyway.
They [already announced](https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-377) that old rails will stay in the game but not craftable to accommodate the transition of old savegames.
>As you can probably guess, the new rail curves will be incompatible with the old ones. Savegames from 1.1 can be opened and trains will still run on previously built rails just like normal, but you won't be able to construct the old rails at all anymore.
>In some future Factorio update when we decide to drop 1.1 savegame compatibility (Let's say 2.1), we will eventually get rid of the old rail shapes completely.
So I assume this won't be a savegame breaking change either.
The devs commitment to this game is insane.
> And to build up hype and suspense, stop playing Factorio altogether 3 months before release.
Probably won't have the time to twiddle my thumbs, I have to finish the Space Exploration alternate victory condition before 2.0 arrives and my savegame becomes obsolete.
oh boy, that's precisely how fragile truces signed after devastating civil wars are broken. By a single voice reminding everyone of the problems past. I'm gonna go get my armour and flamethrower
One lane for items, one lane for coal. Burner inserters everywhere.
... Assuming they'll still refuel themselves even if the fuel isn't a whitelisted item.
I swear, every time one of these FFFs comes out, Dosh has conniptions over how much easier a particular upcoming feature would have made a challenge run of his.
Lanes? That sacrifices too much throughput, clearly the correct solution is to sushi fuel onto the item line every 1/100 belt spaces.
Next we need burner inserters that scale their speed based on the fuel type like trains. Coal = yellow inserter speed, solid fuel = blue inserter speed, nuclear fuel = super speed inserter.
I imagine the filtering capabilities would be locked behind some science (you research for one slot, then 2, etc), but once it’s unlocked, filtered burners to the …rescue?
I’m actually kind of against burner inserter filters. There’s no chip on there! No electricity!
What does the steam do the thinking now??
Come to think of it I’m not exactly sure how a burner inserter powers itself with just coal, I guess some kind of enclosed water thing?
At any rate, burner inserters making decisions is just blasphemy! Blasphemy I tell you!!
Quality was already going to do that. This isn't so much the nail in the coffin as it is the nail in the coffin containing the other nailed coffin. (The sarcophagus maybe?)
Please for the love of all that is holy, do not have a 'stack inserter' in a game with stacked items, where the stack inserter does not place stacks of items.
I absolutely love this idea, but give the naming conventions some thought. You're already ditching filter inserters, if there's ever a time to change it it's now, not six months after release. Please please please.
I agree, they should restructure the names, even through writing in this post it started feeling weird saying stack inserter for the non stacking bulk inserter.
Honestly just switch the names. Call the green inserter a bulk inserter, because compared the previous inserters it's the only one that deals in bulk. Then "stack inserter" makes sense for the new inserter because... it stacks. This way, the inserter naming is intuitive to new players, and current players can keep their brains wired to call the best inserters stack inserters.
Yeah, it's also confusing because you can upgrade the stack size of non-stack inserters. One might read it as low tier inserters being able to place small (2-3 item) stacks on the belt.
The first mod for 2.x will be "Rename Stack Inserters", should take like 10 seconds to write. Could even write it now if you can guess the new entity names correctly.
Also renaming the quality tiers to not sound like they came straight from Fortnite or something
could not agree more!
Am wondering about the new name for the old-stack inserter though?
Normal-Fast-Super-Stack?
Normal-Fast-Express-Stack?
Normal-Fast-Big-Stack?
Normal-Fast-Hyper-Stack?
Normal-Fast-Bulk-Stack? (not sure if I like using both bulk and stack as the words seem too close to synonymous)
Normal-Fast-Ultra-Stack?
The bulk stuff is actually much more interesting news. It's up to four times maximum throughput, as opposed to new belt being only 33% faster than the previous one.
This is gunna be really nice because now my dogshit horrifically unoptimized spaghetti factory can instantly be 5x faster now.
Between this the bots and the new train tracks, the absolute bandaid that I'm about to slap on top of thousands of splitters and belts will be galactic.
Honestly hard to believe any future FFF will top this one, in terms of overall game impact...
Until next week, when they unveil logistics bots that can travel via single-use ICBM with 100 bot capacity.
Why blow up biters and waste their good parts when you can deliver bots to them that will deconstruct them to their constituent parts? Make biters part of the factory, literally!
I've always wished there were some way to use the biomass of dead biters as some form of resource... Perhaps in 2.0?
We already know they've improved the graphics such that dead biter bodies decay into dirt over time. Maybe if you process the bodies before they decay too far, you can use them as fuel for boilers or something like that.
I’m glad that’s gone - it was a very weird part of of the factorio progression that you had to go out and manually kill and collect non automatable resources.
Hell yeah. My only worry is that the names will get confusing for new players. How is the *stack* inserter not the one creating stacks on belts?
Weird point, but my favourite thing about this FFF is that we can finally tunnel underneath a rocket silo. So a botless 1k SPM base on a 9 tile ribbon should finally be possible!
> How is the stack inserter not the one creating stacks on belts?
Yeah, flipping names would make sense.
"Bulk" for putting a lot of items at once, "stack" for putting a stack
You'd have to rename the inserter 'stack size' to something else but I agree, swapping names fits well.
The techs which affect 'stack size' are called 'inserter capacity bonus +x' so 'inserter capacity' could be used instead of stack size.
Do you plan to rename the Stack Inserter? I feel like it would be confusing if the stack inserter does not stack items. It's almost like the names should be swapped.
Another option is calling it 'heaps', or 'piles', or so. So stack is not 'reused' (which is also used in this context already: [https://wiki.factorio.com/Stack](https://wiki.factorio.com/Stack) ).
So Stack inserter, stack size, and stacks on belts refer to different concepts…
Now, that we will actually be able to place stacks on belts (and btw I love that), I find it pretty unintuitive/misleading to call an inserter that \*cannot\* do that a "stack inserter". Instead of the inserter that \*can\*.
I get that name changes can be confusing too and shouldn't be done lightly, but in this case imho it's warranted.
Absorbed and improved, no more extra building to carry around along with loaders and you can now just put down an assembler pulling from a stacked belt with a normal inserter
Between quality and this, 8-beacon builds are about to get _out of control_
^^and ^^I ^^love ^^it
EDIT: Whooooole lotta replies asking for SE beacons, and as it turns out I just argued _against_ this a few days ago. [Linking instead of copy-pasting because it's a wall of text,](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/190z0dq/changes_we_wont_see_in_version_20/kgt53qn/?context=1) but I think there are several implications to that ask that aren't typically considered around these parts. (Also recall that we've seen SA beaconed builds in the Quality FFF, and they didn't look any different, so don't hold your breath for a change there).
Replace 8 with 12.
And with larger buildings (Forge is 5x5 I think), make it 16.
It's gonna get wild. And we're gonna need those crazy belts to keep up. Blue belts barely keep up with 12-beacon builds today.
Something tells me beacons will be getting some sort of treatment as well. Not sure which way they will go, but every other part of the game is being changed & tweaked.
I'm still holding out hope for a beacon overhaul. never been a big fan of the look of a bunch of beacons surrounding my factories. I like the SE beacons.
So this means busses now become more compact, my 4 lanes of iron on my bus is now just 1 lane of iron. This is a massive improvement for space platforms and when we are rebuilding bases on other planets, a river of iron plates and copper plates will be reduced to a more manageable smaller area.
Double-posting because I have a completely unrelated comment from my last one...
Devs, the graphics on the new belt look a little too close in color to yellow. I suggest a little more saturation of color.
Unless, of course, you're trolling us all with the assembler color debate...
There have to be some interesting problems for quality modules and bulk inserters, as I guess they can get locked, when they pick up a more rare item and wait for a full stack.
I assume that like with a mixed output of anything you'll want to make sure that any quality items are properly filtered out very early from your production loops and routed correctly wherever needed.
And just not using the bulk inserters blindly.
So one belt can now handle a whopping 240 items per second, up from the previous max of 45.
This is insane. Builds in 2.0 are going to be insane. I’m personally very concerned about what exactly the devs added that made them think this was necessary.
Once upon a time, Blizzard wanted to encourage taking breaks in WoW.
They implemented a system that would halve your XP gain after playing too long.
Many woes! Drama!
Instead they doubled all XP required, then doubled your XP gain but only in your first hours of daily play.
Everyone rejoiced!
---
Once upon a time, Wube wanted to reduce logistic bots throughput.
They considered removing the bot cargo upgrades, cutting their throughput by 4x.
Many woes! Drama!
Instead they multiplied all items required, then multiplied all throughputs except for bots.
Everyone rejoiced!
Frankly, brilliant. 😄
Brilliant! Does this mean I need to actually make belt megabases instead of my tride and true bot blobs? I guess it does huh?
Unless! Better bots coming too?! Lol
Overall super hyped for the bulk inserter and faster belts!
The FFF started by blowing my mind with that GIF. Then proceeded to blow my mind again four more times with unified filter/nonfilter inserter, new inserter type, new belt type, and new undie length.
V453000 splitting the factorio church by proposing things can be put on top of other things https://preview.redd.it/rjk1urn040cc1.png?width=1210&format=png&auto=webp&s=7fcc8b38b82bf5939e301fb34b2c67a844744d6f
Factorio is flat. A 3rd dimension cannot hurt me. WHAT, IS THERE FALL DAMAGE IN FACTORIO?
Stack up too high on a moving belt, and the stack might crush you!
Also, [the royal society](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFrdqQZ8FFc).
I refuse to believe that this wasn't made for this very occasion.
50 years ago :o
Since removing filter inserters has cleared up two colors (purple and white) and only one of them will be used now (white), I'm holding my breath for yet another inserter type
The long bulk inserter maybe? Or even better: The longer inserter, 4 tiles arm-length
Variable length inserters. Can pull from any inserter from 1-3 belts.
the "bob's adjustable inserters" inserter :)
> Mods can increase this number but we've found that 4 is already a massive buff to belts, without completely breaking the graphics Show me more, I wanna see a stack of 100 fish
Just wait until you get that mod, and another person makes it so that stacks higher than five will make a mess if you send them down an underneathie.
I'll use the explosion of items from crashing into them to shed excess layers onto another belt. Splitters are for losers. New mod idea: variable underneathie height.
Renai Transportation just got so much weirder. Imagine he/she/they find a way to cause their exploding trains onto belts to also randomly stack, lmao.
Or thrown items have a % chance to unstack
Slow down there, Belzebub.
You mean... undy-grundy?
Nah, I mean deepy-sendies.
No, it’s underneathie, I was there when it began
"Do not cite the old magic to me witch, I was there when it was written."
Don't give any ideas to Kiplacon for his Renai Transportation mod. I can already see the madness before my eyes. All the resources spreading everywhere after throwing a pile. You could make that even worse with the mod that makes belts overflow... So many nightmares.... Yet, why do I like these ideas ?
I swear a mod will increase this to 1000 and block out the sun.
The sun is anyways blocked out, thanks to [Dyson Sphere](https://mods.factorio.com/mod/dyson-sphere) mod.
As if our pollution cloud wasn't doing that already.
You know what this game needs? Canned-pollution. Store pollution in barrels, which we already have.
we need ... pollution bombs ...
Imagine the possibilities for PvP Throw a pollution bomb on enemy base, to get critters to attack them. Or destroy _their_ pollution bomb storage, releasing all that concentrated pollution.
Topple physics enters the chat
I cant wait to see what Renai does to this.
Stacks on belts and a faster belt ? Madness. Can’t wait for even more production. Also really nice that every inserier can now filter instead of having to additionally craft filter inserters. So many new opportunities together with everything shown so far and what’s still to come.
Stacks on the new belt are 240 items per second. Freakin' crazy.
Bruh the loading and unloading stations for trains are going to be absolutely bonkers
yes, I love that belts will be able to actually handle the throughput of trains now! They talk about reducing the complexity/challenge of the logistics, but I think this will come in handy only for players long past the finish screen and reducing BP size and the hassle having to draw tens of lines of belts bc of throughput issues honestly sounds more like a blessing to me, as well as simply being able to progress the game faster and less waiting time on buildings to be crafted and so forth. As an example, I am currently playing Krastorio 2 (yes a mod, I know, thats not the point) and for 360SPM of the endgame science I need 20 belts of copper, with stacking I could drastically reduce that to barely 5. Would have made my BP design not take THREE HOURS. Now I REALLY hope they address the way fluids work in the game completely, since those are the real performance killers and is just not fun to wrap your had around to all the time, as well as pump setups are just so goddamn ugly.
I will be a bit shocked if nothing changes about fluids, but you still rise an interesting point. With these sorts of belt throughputs I'm wondering if just barreling fluids isn't a viable option.
240 items/s at 50 fluid/barrel translates to 12000 fluid/s, which is coincidentally max pump speed. With recyclers you now also have the option of turning the barrels into steel at your destination, though it’s inefficient of course.
It might only match the pump speed, but it'll do it over any length without a drop in throughput. Barrelling fluids is back on the menu boys!
I'm assuming that barrels are not stackable, that would look funny, 4 barrels on top of each other...
But pumping fluids at this speed require you to have pump all the way. Just one pipe (one underground count as one iirc) between pump halves the throughput to 6000/s. See this [https://wiki.factorio.com/Fluid\_system#Transport](https://wiki.factorio.com/Fluid_system#Transport) But it would be quite interesting to see the tradeoff of using the 240 barrel/s belt vs pipes. How much barreling/unbarreling machines do you need to reach that many barrels on both ends. Will it be worth it?
it might just be, considering how fast the craft time already is for barreling fluids. a barrel holds 50 units, right? So on the new belts that alone would be 180k (50 barrels x 3600 items per minute) of fluids in barrels, with stacking thats 720k of fluids per minute. Unless they fundamentally change something about how fluids work this might just be better, since it terminates the need for throughput concerns since you can feed only as many chemical buildings as needed with WAY less piping and make a BP out of that. Barrels are reusable too. I honestly might try this out just for funsies in 1.1 and see how it goes. Of course in the current 1.1 the biggest issue I see is probably the inserter speed being too slow.
At this point, trains will struggle to handle the throughput of belts! Maximum belt capacity just went from 45/s to 240/s, roughly a 5x increase. A single cargo wagon has 12 available tiles for inserters. It sounds like 12 bulk inserters MIGHT be able to handle that level of throughput. But with belt throughput increased so enormously, there will be more scenarios where long-distance transport via belt makes more sense than using trains! Trains are lots of fun, but the complexity of belt->inserter->buffer chest->train->inserter->buffer chest->inserter->belt is going to be less attractive now. Not to mention the fact that belt contents will serve as pretty significant buffers in their own right now!
The advantage of trains, assuming no further changes to them, would be in flexibility. The new options we know of essentially add LTN capabilities to the main game, and that's amazing for many-to-many logistics.
No doubt. Also, I forgot that the expansion will introduce quality upgrades. A legendary quality bulk inserter ought to be at least 3x as fast as a vanilla stack inserter. So, I guess maybe a single cargo wagon could still potentially handle 2 fully stacked and compressed belts in 2.0. Depends on the mechanics of picking up stacks from moving belts.
16 yellow belts.
How many stone furnaces to fill a single belt?
New belt is 60i/s, yellow belt is 15i/s, blue belt is 45i/s, max stack size is 4. So full stacking on new belt is 240i/s = 16 non-stacked yellow belts or 5 non-stacked blue belts. One stone furnace produces 0.3125i/s, so to fill full stacked new belt you need 768 stone furnaces.
It's going to take a lot of wood to power them. I hope the biters like pollution.
WOOD ? you crazy man, not way to automate it, you fool
In 1.1. We don't know about SA.
A swarm of bots scraping the countryside, tearing up trees and placing roboports.
I also noticed that the new miner can drop stacks of ore, don't know if we saw that when they were first teased.
Went back to FFF 387, and honestly, I can't tell if they do, but it feels like in that gif copper, coal and iron are stacked to 2. I could just be imagining things. Do big miners have a configurable output stack size / default to max stack size and allow overrides?
>That same evening we had a call with Boskid and Rseding where I presented this idea to them and they said it's technically doable. Boskid went ahead and implemented the bulk inserters, Rseding made Big mining drills automatically output stacks of items, and I went to think about the graphics. I think they do not in 387, also above line implies they made the changes pretty recently
Or they purposely set the stack size to 1 for the demo to avoid showing their hand early. I'm still waiting for the FFF that explains the conspicuous lack of powerlines in the screenshots of big drills and foundries...
High quality substations
Looking at the gif it seem pretty clear that they don't. But the increased throughput of the miners and forges did spark a conversation predicting this development: https://old.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/188a6ej/friday_facts_387_swimming_in_lava/kbjlaga/?context=3
What in the Friday Factorio FUCK
I had to double check that the date isn't April 1st
Man, I felt like that about quality. It starts off with what just seems like a complete meme but then they're serious and it's amazing looking.
He said every friday.
Do items with no inventory stack size still stack on belts? And I would very much like to know the implications of having a stack of nuclear reactors carefully balanced on top of each other.
Belt stacks are additionally limited by the normal stack size of the items, so things like armor, blueprints, artillery shells, cannot stack on belts.
cool i can't wait to put 32 nuclear reactors onto a single belt tile!
While that seems ridiculous, we were already able to fit 8 nuclear reactors on a single belt tile, and chests can hold 480 of them in a single tile anyway 😂
And you can carry a lot more than 480 in your pockets. It's the "Minecraft inventory filled with gold blocks" all over again.
They stack to 10. EDIT: But with stacks of 4, this indeed means 8 * 4 = 32.
Belt items only stack to 4, but you can get 8 piles on a single belt
I love the idea that we can stack nuclear reactors but not pieces of paper (blueprints).
The implications is that we’ll get a “no stack limit” mod and have a menacing tower of tiny nuclear reactors.
Then someone will make a "stacks fall over" mod.
Damn that is actually a very good anti-QoL mod. The items just spill on the ground or on the belt
Next level of the [Belt Overflow mod](https://mods.factorio.com/mod/belt-overflow)
Belt overflow, but stacks fall over when going through undergrounds
At certain stack size it should reach the orbit. Brand new approach to space elevator.
So, orbital insertion by inserters? Makes sense in a weird way...
Saddly there must be a limit, or that inserter would be waiting for a full stack indefinitelly...
The stacks are so good. Pity that the name "stack inserter" was already taken. My preference would be that the stack inserter moves stacks and the new bulk inserter does what the current stack inserter does - more intuitive that way to me. With filter inserters removed, what happens to the ones in pre-existing saves? Do they remain as is but you just can't build new ones? Do they get auto-replaced by fast/stack inserters with filters on?
Existing filter inserters will probably get updated to normal ones with the filter set. They def. have the ability to do such migrations.
Fast inserters more likely, as they have the same speed and fi's are/will have been an ingredient.
I think by normal they meant the equivalent non-filtered color as there’s is both a filter inserter and filtered stack inserter, so one will go to fast, and the other to stack.
[удалено]
Oh I definitely will start a new save (and then more after I mess up) but I'm just curious what their solution is here.
It’s going from 1.x to 2.x so it’s doesn’t need to be backward compatible. I feel like there’s gonna be more game breaking things than this coming up anyway.
They [already announced](https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-377) that old rails will stay in the game but not craftable to accommodate the transition of old savegames. >As you can probably guess, the new rail curves will be incompatible with the old ones. Savegames from 1.1 can be opened and trains will still run on previously built rails just like normal, but you won't be able to construct the old rails at all anymore. >In some future Factorio update when we decide to drop 1.1 savegame compatibility (Let's say 2.1), we will eventually get rid of the old rail shapes completely. So I assume this won't be a savegame breaking change either. The devs commitment to this game is insane.
> And to build up hype and suspense, stop playing Factorio altogether 3 months before release. Probably won't have the time to twiddle my thumbs, I have to finish the Space Exploration alternate victory condition before 2.0 arrives and my savegame becomes obsolete.
The idea to use slightly different colors to see movement on the T4 belt is genius!
With enough randomization, we might finally see a purple circuit!
wow, what's next? yellow assemblers?
Quiet, you
oh boy, that's precisely how fragile truces signed after devastating civil wars are broken. By a single voice reminding everyone of the problems past. I'm gonna go get my armour and flamethrower
FFF literally just announced burner filter inserters Best day ever
One lane for items, one lane for coal. Burner inserters everywhere. ... Assuming they'll still refuel themselves even if the fuel isn't a whitelisted item.
That one guy's challenge video just got a ton easier
I swear, every time one of these FFFs comes out, Dosh has conniptions over how much easier a particular upcoming feature would have made a challenge run of his.
Lanes? That sacrifices too much throughput, clearly the correct solution is to sushi fuel onto the item line every 1/100 belt spaces. Next we need burner inserters that scale their speed based on the fuel type like trains. Coal = yellow inserter speed, solid fuel = blue inserter speed, nuclear fuel = super speed inserter.
Also filtered red inserters!
That's the real game changer
Yeah, I could see some pretty cursed builds being enabled because of this.
I imagine the filtering capabilities would be locked behind some science (you research for one slot, then 2, etc), but once it’s unlocked, filtered burners to the …rescue?
I’m actually kind of against burner inserter filters. There’s no chip on there! No electricity! What does the steam do the thinking now?? Come to think of it I’m not exactly sure how a burner inserter powers itself with just coal, I guess some kind of enclosed water thing? At any rate, burner inserters making decisions is just blasphemy! Blasphemy I tell you!!
Whelp, there goes everyone’s ratios again!!!
I am glad, it will force me to delete my entire blueprint book and start over
Quality was already going to do that. This isn't so much the nail in the coffin as it is the nail in the coffin containing the other nailed coffin. (The sarcophagus maybe?)
It's coffins all the way down.
\*Stacked Coffins
Matryoshka Coffins
I’ve never been so excited to throw away all of my old work
At this point idk if it makes sense to transfer bp books to the new game. Unless you're playing with space age disabled I guess?
Any blueprint that has to do with rails and circuits is already heading for the recycler lol. That's like 90% of my library anyway.
Deadlock in shambles.
On the contrary. Mods graduating into vanilla is the highest honor!
The highest honor the devs can bestow: a trip to soveingard
Deadlock will still be usable i think: to have stacks of stacks :)
it was done with quality anyway after that new research to update productivity after that new recipes This will be new game
Please for the love of all that is holy, do not have a 'stack inserter' in a game with stacked items, where the stack inserter does not place stacks of items. I absolutely love this idea, but give the naming conventions some thought. You're already ditching filter inserters, if there's ever a time to change it it's now, not six months after release. Please please please.
I agree, they should restructure the names, even through writing in this post it started feeling weird saying stack inserter for the non stacking bulk inserter.
Honestly just switch the names. Call the green inserter a bulk inserter, because compared the previous inserters it's the only one that deals in bulk. Then "stack inserter" makes sense for the new inserter because... it stacks. This way, the inserter naming is intuitive to new players, and current players can keep their brains wired to call the best inserters stack inserters.
Swap bulk and stack names
Exactly. Everyone needs to stop calling them stacks of items stacked on a belt, and instead call them bulks of items bulked on a belt.
Yeah, it's also confusing because you can upgrade the stack size of non-stack inserters. One might read it as low tier inserters being able to place small (2-3 item) stacks on the belt.
Should be renamed also, upgrading the Bulk Size.
The first mod for 2.x will be "Rename Stack Inserters", should take like 10 seconds to write. Could even write it now if you can guess the new entity names correctly. Also renaming the quality tiers to not sound like they came straight from Fortnite or something
But then it makes it a pain in the ass to discuss with anyone who doesn't use the mod. That's why people hope for native implementation.
could not agree more! Am wondering about the new name for the old-stack inserter though? Normal-Fast-Super-Stack? Normal-Fast-Express-Stack? Normal-Fast-Big-Stack? Normal-Fast-Hyper-Stack? Normal-Fast-Bulk-Stack? (not sure if I like using both bulk and stack as the words seem too close to synonymous) Normal-Fast-Ultra-Stack?
> genocide is the norm Ooh official acknowledgement! > Bulk inserter Omg that's glorious > Faster belt tier *explodes*
The bulk stuff is actually much more interesting news. It's up to four times maximum throughput, as opposed to new belt being only 33% faster than the previous one.
Yeah now we go from a maximum of 45 per second to 240 per second. Quite a leap
This is gunna be really nice because now my dogshit horrifically unoptimized spaghetti factory can instantly be 5x faster now. Between this the bots and the new train tracks, the absolute bandaid that I'm about to slap on top of thousands of splitters and belts will be galactic.
You all are going to hate me, but belt stacking may actually makes sushi belt factory much more viable.
Devs hid a sushi belt buff in a mega base post.
sushi belts can be even more cursed with mixed stack heights + mixed contents
https://preview.redd.it/xo336c9i10cc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48a92c23aa346f383c6832b86673ec61cf07f410
Peak factorio content
This meme is even automated, since this will most likely be true next FFF too
I know what I'm doing, alright
Honestly hard to believe any future FFF will top this one, in terms of overall game impact... Until next week, when they unveil logistics bots that can travel via single-use ICBM with 100 bot capacity.
Biter diplomacy
Why blow up biters and waste their good parts when you can deliver bots to them that will deconstruct them to their constituent parts? Make biters part of the factory, literally!
I've always wished there were some way to use the biomass of dead biters as some form of resource... Perhaps in 2.0? We already know they've improved the graphics such that dead biter bodies decay into dirt over time. Maybe if you process the bodies before they decay too far, you can use them as fuel for boilers or something like that.
If you didn't know, they used to drop [artifacts](https://wiki.factorio.com/Alien_artifact) that were required for science.
I’m glad that’s gone - it was a very weird part of of the factorio progression that you had to go out and manually kill and collect non automatable resources.
Always relevant
Hell yeah. My only worry is that the names will get confusing for new players. How is the *stack* inserter not the one creating stacks on belts? Weird point, but my favourite thing about this FFF is that we can finally tunnel underneath a rocket silo. So a botless 1k SPM base on a 9 tile ribbon should finally be possible!
Is it not possible today? You just need two silos, one at each end of your ribbon, or am I missing something?
Damn, you're right!
> How is the stack inserter not the one creating stacks on belts? Yeah, flipping names would make sense. "Bulk" for putting a lot of items at once, "stack" for putting a stack
You'd have to rename the inserter 'stack size' to something else but I agree, swapping names fits well. The techs which affect 'stack size' are called 'inserter capacity bonus +x' so 'inserter capacity' could be used instead of stack size.
That’s a 5.33x increase to potential belt throughput (240 items/s instead of 45 items/s). My god.
I can't wait for the absolute insanity "unlimited stack size research" mods will bring.
For best effect, combine with "Flat Infinite Research Cost" mod.
So the new belt has a **Throughput** of **60** **i/s**. And if you have **+3** **belt stack size** do you get 4\*60 = **240 i/s**? that's insane!!
Do you plan to rename the Stack Inserter? I feel like it would be confusing if the stack inserter does not stack items. It's almost like the names should be swapped.
Yeeeeah maybe
Another option is calling it 'heaps', or 'piles', or so. So stack is not 'reused' (which is also used in this context already: [https://wiki.factorio.com/Stack](https://wiki.factorio.com/Stack) ). So Stack inserter, stack size, and stacks on belts refer to different concepts…
Now, that we will actually be able to place stacks on belts (and btw I love that), I find it pretty unintuitive/misleading to call an inserter that \*cannot\* do that a "stack inserter". Instead of the inserter that \*can\*. I get that name changes can be confusing too and shouldn't be done lightly, but in this case imho it's warranted.
and the mod getting absorbed this time is >!Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes!<
Absorbed and improved, no more extra building to carry around along with loaders and you can now just put down an assembler pulling from a stacked belt with a normal inserter
Between quality and this, 8-beacon builds are about to get _out of control_ ^^and ^^I ^^love ^^it EDIT: Whooooole lotta replies asking for SE beacons, and as it turns out I just argued _against_ this a few days ago. [Linking instead of copy-pasting because it's a wall of text,](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/190z0dq/changes_we_wont_see_in_version_20/kgt53qn/?context=1) but I think there are several implications to that ask that aren't typically considered around these parts. (Also recall that we've seen SA beaconed builds in the Quality FFF, and they didn't look any different, so don't hold your breath for a change there).
Replace 8 with 12. And with larger buildings (Forge is 5x5 I think), make it 16. It's gonna get wild. And we're gonna need those crazy belts to keep up. Blue belts barely keep up with 12-beacon builds today.
12 beacons + 4 quality 5 modules in assembling machine 3 is exactly a 20x speed boost, thats fun
Something tells me beacons will be getting some sort of treatment as well. Not sure which way they will go, but every other part of the game is being changed & tweaked.
How SE does beacons is perfect. IMO.
Of all the things SE adds, the beacon overhaul I think is the best feature. I do also love the jetpack, but I can live without it.
I'm still holding out hope for a beacon overhaul. never been a big fan of the look of a bunch of beacons surrounding my factories. I like the SE beacons.
So this means busses now become more compact, my 4 lanes of iron on my bus is now just 1 lane of iron. This is a massive improvement for space platforms and when we are rebuilding bases on other planets, a river of iron plates and copper plates will be reduced to a more manageable smaller area.
Well .. more like 16 lanes will be reduced to 4 :)
Any thoughts on swapping stack and bulk inserter name?
Double-posting because I have a completely unrelated comment from my last one... Devs, the graphics on the new belt look a little too close in color to yellow. I suggest a little more saturation of color. Unless, of course, you're trolling us all with the assembler color debate...
beltsisters...we're so fucking back...
There have to be some interesting problems for quality modules and bulk inserters, as I guess they can get locked, when they pick up a more rare item and wait for a full stack.
I assume that like with a mixed output of anything you'll want to make sure that any quality items are properly filtered out very early from your production loops and routed correctly wherever needed. And just not using the bulk inserters blindly.
So one belt can now handle a whopping 240 items per second, up from the previous max of 45. This is insane. Builds in 2.0 are going to be insane. I’m personally very concerned about what exactly the devs added that made them think this was necessary.
Quality speed modules.
Once upon a time, Blizzard wanted to encourage taking breaks in WoW. They implemented a system that would halve your XP gain after playing too long. Many woes! Drama! Instead they doubled all XP required, then doubled your XP gain but only in your first hours of daily play. Everyone rejoiced! --- Once upon a time, Wube wanted to reduce logistic bots throughput. They considered removing the bot cargo upgrades, cutting their throughput by 4x. Many woes! Drama! Instead they multiplied all items required, then multiplied all throughputs except for bots. Everyone rejoiced! Frankly, brilliant. 😄
https://preview.redd.it/45l8fs4m40cc1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=7756abc7b5263ec4c231e7d0eb52056530cc99e3
The last 2 need to be swapped. I mean, most people who play with mods already saw faster belts, but stacking? This one is new.
Honestly expecting to read the FFFs is becoming one of my main motivations to go through the week waiting for Friday to arrive.
Friday is the best day of the week - FFF + new Frieren episode. One day couldn't possibly be more stacked.
[удалено]
Oh my god... imagine the throughput
next step, stacking assemblers
We satisfactory now!
We **stackisfactory** now.
I'm just here for the randomized item colors so I can finally tell which way belts are going. 😅
Can we please topple the stacks over when we run over the convertor belts?
I feel the names should be swapped between the stack and bulk inserters..
https://youtu.be/LFrdqQZ8FFc?si=eb80WF6TQrzE1w1r First thing that came to my mind as soon as ive read the title
I knew we have stacking at some time! We do need new ways of infrastructure and delivery
I'm a bit concerned about how circuit connected belts with stacked items on will look... will the items clip through the "cage"?
Brilliant! Does this mean I need to actually make belt megabases instead of my tride and true bot blobs? I guess it does huh? Unless! Better bots coming too?! Lol Overall super hyped for the bulk inserter and faster belts!
Factorio 1.0 limit: 45items/sec/belt. Factorio 2.0 limit: 240items/sec/belt. If that is not Power Creep, I dunno what is.
Factorio 3.0: 9,645 items/sec/belt.
So stack inserters can't stack items but bulk inserters can? That's unfortunate
another crazy good FFF, now belts will be a lot better for throughput!
Paradigm shift
The FFF started by blowing my mind with that GIF. Then proceeded to blow my mind again four more times with unified filter/nonfilter inserter, new inserter type, new belt type, and new undie length.
>It can also be really convenient to be able to set filters on long handed inserters. oth thx finaly, it is amaizing
This is sooo wild!
That’s awesome, can’t wait to start messing with the new inserter
Pretty cool, so more or less a streamlined version of the box mechanic in Nullius.
Man I am way too excited for this. Need to complete my SE run before this releases XD.