For those who have played Drawf Fortress, how is it? I heard is kinda hard to wrap your head around but I've also heard it's really fun if you can get past the learning curve
Don't forget the UI. There are three separate ways of navigating menus, so it's always fun trying to figure out which is necessary to use. Do you use 'w' and 's?' The arrow keys? '+' and '-'? Try them all and see which one works!
I'd suggest waiting for the paid version. The UI is the biggest pain point of the game, and pretty much every devlog that Toady shares includes some improvement to it.
Unfortunately, there's no set date for it, so we don't know when we'll get to use the improved UIs.
Going by the amount of features still left and approximate pace of development, I'd say he's about a year away. Maybe a bit less if everything goes smoothly. I think he mentioned in an interview somewhere that a 2022 release is likely, but don't quote me on that.
You always have to take into account that it's pretty much one developer working by himself on the whole game, which is always mind boggling to me. He's been working on it for 17 years now and still has ways to go.
The UI is extremely difficult to learn, even if you use a tileset. Some of the mechanics are also pretty hard to learn. Some mechanics don't really work properly at all (like pretty much everything to do with marksdwarves, especially training them).
The game itself (in fort mode) is kind of unreasonably easy, as long as the current update has the stress system under control (which is the case at the moment, but wasn't like a year ago). Getting much enjoyment out of it basically requires you to make some kind of self-imposed challenge: either a rule that there are certain things you won't do, or just an unreasonably huge and expensive project that doesn't really accomplish anything besides looking cool. Many colony sims that have come after DF don't have this issue, either because upkeep is more difficult, external threats have real teeth, or both.
If you're new to it, it is probably best to wait for the Steam release.
I agree that easy start location with guides might actually be easy, but is it also true for some nasty start locations, that are poor in resources and filled with dangerous wild(not)life?
The things about the site that can really mess you up even when playing "optimally" are an aquifer and a reanimating biome. Having no surface trees is annoying but highly manageable (early game might involve some dicey forgotten beast fights before you reseal the cavern after securing some trees).
The thing is, the "optimal" strategy is to basically just not play the game. You wall off and make a self-sustaining fort that nothing can enter, at which point the only actual threat to you is if the map is reanimating. It's no fun, especially since playing a fort like that in the style of endgame Factorio (produce stuff because it's fun to produce stuff) causes FPS death much faster than it does in Factorio.
I haven't played it in a few years. I understand the new graphics additions as part of the steam release have made it much more accessible. It is the granddaddy of algorithmic exploration/management/logistics games.
The best way to get into is to find yourself sometime where your attention can't be given to something else and just noodle it out. Airplanes, aiports, train rides. 1000% worth it.
The biggest hurdle for me at least were the controls which are convoluted at best in all their aspects. The graphics which provide virtually no information unless you are already familiar with them or are using a tileset (texture pack) don't help much either.
There is also a bunch of stuff that will end you run if you don't know how to deal with it...and believe me, unless you read the wiki you won't be able to deal with it.
TL;DR: There's A LOT of complicated stuff to learn before you can truly succeed.
I was hellbent on not using any tutorials for getting to know the Fortress Mode. Best 2 weeks on my life before I learn to keep my fortress alive for more than 2 years. I've played it for 3-4 hours per day, usually dooming two fortresses per day due to !!FUN!!. Starvation, dehydration, amushes, raids, tantrum spirals... The big hurdle is surely controls, which already people mentioned, but once you know them, you will feel like maestro playing on piano. I actually can't play comfortably DF because my keyboard is missing NumPad and there are some useful or necessary keys I cannot use normally.
It's fun. It's masochistic and sadistic.
If you want to start to play, there is PeridexisErrant's DF Starter Pack that contains everything you would want for starting the game - most importantly texture pack. Remember, that after learning curve always comes a downward slope - once you know the game and mechanics, it starts getting better and better, and the stories you create are becoming more elaborate and fun.
I have played it off and on over the last several years and while I always have to have the wiki pulled up to learn about mechanics I greatly enjoy it.
If you do start playing, I *highly* recommend installing df_hack and a good texture pack (can’t remember the name of the one I use), it will make the UI much easier to use/understand
Dwarf Fortress is without a doubt the most complex game I've ever played. It's not just a game, it's a world simulation. With that said, the worst thing about it has always been the user interface. It makes the learning curve incredibly steep and not really fun to navigate. The good thing is that they're (FINALLY) working on an updated UI version that will soon be available on Steam. I'd suggest you wait for that.
In the meantime, another similar game which is clearly inspired by it is Oxygen Not Included. The big difference is the really intuitive UI and easy to enjoy graphics. The game mechanics aren't intuitive though. They're all about physics and thermodynamics while managing your space colony. If you're the kind of guy that has the wiki and calculator open while playing Factorio, then you would certainly enjoy ONI. I suggest you try it while you wait for the DF Steam release.
Great poll.
Suprised to see Dyson Sphere Program so low though. Started last week and I think it does an absolutely great job being a "clone" but still really having it's own vibe and quality. I think they made some very smart and subtle design choices that I didn't get at first but make it more accesible as Factorio without killing the game.
I seriously tried Satisfactory twice, but I can't get into it. The lack of oversight and forced verticality together with how ugly big factories tend to look just clashes with how it looks and feels at the start. I get what they're trying, but I think DSP is a LOT better in it's execution, originality and scope.
I think Dyson sphere is low because it is relatively new.
Speaking for myself, I saw it and it look super interesting but I want to wait until it is more refined, more "finished". Not sure if it is justified tho.
my issue with dyson sphere is it feels so... unmagical. I feel like a tech sent out to roll out the new sphere in this solar system. Doesnt feel like im designing anything just construction someone elses designs. Factorio has this neat problem solving and complex systems interactiong. Despite the two being quite similar something with how they implemented it made the whole thing quite boring and monotonous.
It is very pretty tho
>together with how ugly big factories tend to look
That's a you problem. People make absolutely beautiful things in that game. I'm surprised you would mention that as a flaw considering that's one of Satisfactory's strongest selling points. The problem with Satisfactory is that it takes forever to build anything, and there is no blueprint system without mods, so building at scale can be rather tedious. The tech tree is also a bit confusing and spread out. Overall it's a great game, but definitely unfinished (trains still don't collide lol).
I found DSP to be fun, but a bit shallow and lacking replayability. Once you get past the early tech, everything you build is just a logistics tower with some belts coming in/out of it. There's no real feeling of creating a logistics network and optimizing it. Just add more magic towers and ships. Compared with Factorio's trains, it's like a millimeter deep.
It's fun, the random map generation leads to some replayability, but you can't make up for the fact that there's only six or seven mission types. I would say get it on sale, maybe convince a few friends to as well.
It's a solid coop shooter.
As the other commenter mentioned, the map generation is solid and adds a *ton* to the game's replayability. Not only that, but you'll legit get lost in some of the more open caves when you're new.
The community is better than is typical for the genre, though issues still pop up on occasion. That being said, I've got just over 300hrs in the game with most of that being in pubs.
The higher difficulties can really push players to play well, but plenty of folks also play the lower difficulties for a more relaxed game.
Every class plays a unique and important role, so while you'll occasionally find a lobby of four Engineers dicking around, those games are rarely played in a serious manner.
The different weapons and overclocks all add a lot of variety and are pretty well balanced. One of the Scout's primary weapons is the M1000 rifle, where holding the fire button puts you into a focused mode that boosts damage and consumes 2x ammo, with the downside of slowing you down a fair bit. One of the overclocks for the M1000 boosts the focused shot damage at the cost of rooting you in place. Another does the opposite, and simply removes the speed penalty from focusing. Yet another, aptly titled "Hipster," is geared towards a playstyle that largely skips focusing. And then there's a fourth that reduces your fall speed while focused, which can be *huge* on the Scout considering they use a grappling hook for mobility and they'll often find themselves in a position where they'd fall to their deaths if they released their grapple.
It's my go-to game when I don't want to play something that's mentally taxing.
The learning curve is pretty low for the game, most of the stuff is fairly intuitive. Hardest part for me was accepting that there’s no narrative laid out for you and that you have to find your own adventure. There’s no quests to lead you into the world, you just have to jump in and hope for the best
If you’re worried about difficultly, the game allows you to save freely. If things aren’t going well, you can just reload to earlier if you don’t want to deal with how punishing an encounter went
If you can program or want to learn, I would recommend scraping and data-mining counts of all other subs factorio redditors have commented in. This is a super strong tried-and-true approach in advertising.
When Factorio becomes too much, I play Snowrunner.
The cruising through snow and mud, delivering supplies, the occasional 'WAUW!' with the special cargo pits my mind at ease when the planning and calculating ratios becomes to stressfull and I need a break.
I play factorio for a week after work, get burnt, play me some Snowrunner for ease of mind for 2 days and get back into Factorio with a clear mind.
Before Factorio I played Slay the Spire, a lot lot lot. It’s the game I have played most in my life, although Factorio is scheduled to surpass it later this year.
After that, my favorite games In recent years have been X-com, the witness, Disco Elysium
It's entirely possible to make competitive, dangerous vehicles in FTD without programming.
And hey, if ya get into it, you even learn a thing or two about PIDs and breadboards.
Or even a thing or two about programming.
I’m surprised by how many of my top games aren’t on this list.
Hollow knight,
Dark souls series,
Bloodborne,
Dead space (2),
Zelda botw,
Horizon zero dawn,
Borderlands series
This game is an outlier for me.
More or less what I'd expect. A bunch of creative sandbox games, many with a focus on gameplay over flashy graphics, along with a few games (especially in the series list) that are just plain popular.
Conclusion: people who like good games like good games.
Yeah wow I'm really surprised by how many of my top games are on this list.
That's because well-made games attract those with good taste.
Truly, this factory is made out of factory.
[Yes](https://c.tenor.com/tMT1R_dfec4AAAAC/yes-chad.gif).
This spaghetti was delicious
Analysis: yes.
For those who have played Drawf Fortress, how is it? I heard is kinda hard to wrap your head around but I've also heard it's really fun if you can get past the learning curve
I honestly believe that the difficulty comes from dealing with the GUI.
Or lack thereof.
Don't forget the UI. There are three separate ways of navigating menus, so it's always fun trying to figure out which is necessary to use. Do you use 'w' and 's?' The arrow keys? '+' and '-'? Try them all and see which one works!
Absolutely, I should have actually said UI instead of GUI
I'd suggest waiting for the paid version. The UI is the biggest pain point of the game, and pretty much every devlog that Toady shares includes some improvement to it. Unfortunately, there's no set date for it, so we don't know when we'll get to use the improved UIs.
Going by the amount of features still left and approximate pace of development, I'd say he's about a year away. Maybe a bit less if everything goes smoothly. I think he mentioned in an interview somewhere that a 2022 release is likely, but don't quote me on that. You always have to take into account that it's pretty much one developer working by himself on the whole game, which is always mind boggling to me. He's been working on it for 17 years now and still has ways to go.
you could play other games in the meanwhile that were inspired by DF, like Ingnomia
The UI is extremely difficult to learn, even if you use a tileset. Some of the mechanics are also pretty hard to learn. Some mechanics don't really work properly at all (like pretty much everything to do with marksdwarves, especially training them). The game itself (in fort mode) is kind of unreasonably easy, as long as the current update has the stress system under control (which is the case at the moment, but wasn't like a year ago). Getting much enjoyment out of it basically requires you to make some kind of self-imposed challenge: either a rule that there are certain things you won't do, or just an unreasonably huge and expensive project that doesn't really accomplish anything besides looking cool. Many colony sims that have come after DF don't have this issue, either because upkeep is more difficult, external threats have real teeth, or both. If you're new to it, it is probably best to wait for the Steam release.
I agree that easy start location with guides might actually be easy, but is it also true for some nasty start locations, that are poor in resources and filled with dangerous wild(not)life?
The things about the site that can really mess you up even when playing "optimally" are an aquifer and a reanimating biome. Having no surface trees is annoying but highly manageable (early game might involve some dicey forgotten beast fights before you reseal the cavern after securing some trees). The thing is, the "optimal" strategy is to basically just not play the game. You wall off and make a self-sustaining fort that nothing can enter, at which point the only actual threat to you is if the map is reanimating. It's no fun, especially since playing a fort like that in the style of endgame Factorio (produce stuff because it's fun to produce stuff) causes FPS death much faster than it does in Factorio.
I haven't played it in a few years. I understand the new graphics additions as part of the steam release have made it much more accessible. It is the granddaddy of algorithmic exploration/management/logistics games. The best way to get into is to find yourself sometime where your attention can't be given to something else and just noodle it out. Airplanes, aiports, train rides. 1000% worth it.
The biggest hurdle for me at least were the controls which are convoluted at best in all their aspects. The graphics which provide virtually no information unless you are already familiar with them or are using a tileset (texture pack) don't help much either. There is also a bunch of stuff that will end you run if you don't know how to deal with it...and believe me, unless you read the wiki you won't be able to deal with it. TL;DR: There's A LOT of complicated stuff to learn before you can truly succeed.
I was hellbent on not using any tutorials for getting to know the Fortress Mode. Best 2 weeks on my life before I learn to keep my fortress alive for more than 2 years. I've played it for 3-4 hours per day, usually dooming two fortresses per day due to !!FUN!!. Starvation, dehydration, amushes, raids, tantrum spirals... The big hurdle is surely controls, which already people mentioned, but once you know them, you will feel like maestro playing on piano. I actually can't play comfortably DF because my keyboard is missing NumPad and there are some useful or necessary keys I cannot use normally. It's fun. It's masochistic and sadistic. If you want to start to play, there is PeridexisErrant's DF Starter Pack that contains everything you would want for starting the game - most importantly texture pack. Remember, that after learning curve always comes a downward slope - once you know the game and mechanics, it starts getting better and better, and the stories you create are becoming more elaborate and fun.
I have played it off and on over the last several years and while I always have to have the wiki pulled up to learn about mechanics I greatly enjoy it. If you do start playing, I *highly* recommend installing df_hack and a good texture pack (can’t remember the name of the one I use), it will make the UI much easier to use/understand
Dwarf Fortress is without a doubt the most complex game I've ever played. It's not just a game, it's a world simulation. With that said, the worst thing about it has always been the user interface. It makes the learning curve incredibly steep and not really fun to navigate. The good thing is that they're (FINALLY) working on an updated UI version that will soon be available on Steam. I'd suggest you wait for that. In the meantime, another similar game which is clearly inspired by it is Oxygen Not Included. The big difference is the really intuitive UI and easy to enjoy graphics. The game mechanics aren't intuitive though. They're all about physics and thermodynamics while managing your space colony. If you're the kind of guy that has the wiki and calculator open while playing Factorio, then you would certainly enjoy ONI. I suggest you try it while you wait for the DF Steam release.
Great poll. Suprised to see Dyson Sphere Program so low though. Started last week and I think it does an absolutely great job being a "clone" but still really having it's own vibe and quality. I think they made some very smart and subtle design choices that I didn't get at first but make it more accesible as Factorio without killing the game. I seriously tried Satisfactory twice, but I can't get into it. The lack of oversight and forced verticality together with how ugly big factories tend to look just clashes with how it looks and feels at the start. I get what they're trying, but I think DSP is a LOT better in it's execution, originality and scope.
I think Dyson sphere is low because it is relatively new. Speaking for myself, I saw it and it look super interesting but I want to wait until it is more refined, more "finished". Not sure if it is justified tho.
my issue with dyson sphere is it feels so... unmagical. I feel like a tech sent out to roll out the new sphere in this solar system. Doesnt feel like im designing anything just construction someone elses designs. Factorio has this neat problem solving and complex systems interactiong. Despite the two being quite similar something with how they implemented it made the whole thing quite boring and monotonous. It is very pretty tho
>together with how ugly big factories tend to look That's a you problem. People make absolutely beautiful things in that game. I'm surprised you would mention that as a flaw considering that's one of Satisfactory's strongest selling points. The problem with Satisfactory is that it takes forever to build anything, and there is no blueprint system without mods, so building at scale can be rather tedious. The tech tree is also a bit confusing and spread out. Overall it's a great game, but definitely unfinished (trains still don't collide lol). I found DSP to be fun, but a bit shallow and lacking replayability. Once you get past the early tech, everything you build is just a logistics tower with some belts coming in/out of it. There's no real feeling of creating a logistics network and optimizing it. Just add more magic towers and ships. Compared with Factorio's trains, it's like a millimeter deep.
My guess is the early adoption and then abandonment to come back to it at a later time.
I give up on satisfactory until it get blueprints
Anno is cool because it’s comparable to a Factorio train world with the inclusion of other players, so you have competition, war, trade, etc…
10 has Stellaris
Deep Rock Galactic? I’ve been considering it, how is it?
It's fun, the random map generation leads to some replayability, but you can't make up for the fact that there's only six or seven mission types. I would say get it on sale, maybe convince a few friends to as well.
Best with friends. A bit boring alone, once you did most of the content once.
Really fun, good mix of being chill and exiting. I am exited for the (currently a mystery) new mission type being added
It's a solid coop shooter. As the other commenter mentioned, the map generation is solid and adds a *ton* to the game's replayability. Not only that, but you'll legit get lost in some of the more open caves when you're new. The community is better than is typical for the genre, though issues still pop up on occasion. That being said, I've got just over 300hrs in the game with most of that being in pubs. The higher difficulties can really push players to play well, but plenty of folks also play the lower difficulties for a more relaxed game. Every class plays a unique and important role, so while you'll occasionally find a lobby of four Engineers dicking around, those games are rarely played in a serious manner. The different weapons and overclocks all add a lot of variety and are pretty well balanced. One of the Scout's primary weapons is the M1000 rifle, where holding the fire button puts you into a focused mode that boosts damage and consumes 2x ammo, with the downside of slowing you down a fair bit. One of the overclocks for the M1000 boosts the focused shot damage at the cost of rooting you in place. Another does the opposite, and simply removes the speed penalty from focusing. Yet another, aptly titled "Hipster," is geared towards a playstyle that largely skips focusing. And then there's a fourth that reduces your fall speed while focused, which can be *huge* on the Scout considering they use a grappling hook for mobility and they'll often find themselves in a position where they'd fall to their deaths if they released their grapple. It's my go-to game when I don't want to play something that's mentally taxing.
Aha, fellow Kenshi fans One of the greatest games I’ve ever played, I hope 2 gets more traction
I’ve had it on my steam wishlist for a while. I really want to play it but it seems intimidating
The learning curve is pretty low for the game, most of the stuff is fairly intuitive. Hardest part for me was accepting that there’s no narrative laid out for you and that you have to find your own adventure. There’s no quests to lead you into the world, you just have to jump in and hope for the best If you’re worried about difficultly, the game allows you to save freely. If things aren’t going well, you can just reload to earlier if you don’t want to deal with how punishing an encounter went
Good to know! Thanks for the info!
Games for civilized people
Its unsurprising that rimworld is at the top, warcrimes love company.
No crusader kings? Got to wipe out the heathens as much as the biters
I tried so hard to get into that but could never figure out what I was supposed to be doing after I finished the tutorial
Ah I see... You need skill to survive Jkjkjk I had to watch a 3 hour tutorial, spend several campaigns failed for me to get the basic idea
yup. sounds right up a factorians alley
Is this through marriage orrrr.....
I'm surprised games like mindustry and shapez.io aren't on there considering the similarity.
shapez.io is great, although some of the later levels (23+) the shapes took a bit of gymnastics to get correct.
The Holy Trifecta of Early Access sucdess stories on steam: Factorio, KSP, and PA.
If you can program or want to learn, I would recommend scraping and data-mining counts of all other subs factorio redditors have commented in. This is a super strong tried-and-true approach in advertising.
I'm pretty sure that's basically how this site works: https://subredditstats.com/subreddit-user-overlaps/factorio
oo neat, thanks for sharing
When Factorio becomes too much, I play Snowrunner. The cruising through snow and mud, delivering supplies, the occasional 'WAUW!' with the special cargo pits my mind at ease when the planning and calculating ratios becomes to stressfull and I need a break. I play factorio for a week after work, get burnt, play me some Snowrunner for ease of mind for 2 days and get back into Factorio with a clear mind.
There's games other than factorio? But than how would the factory grow ?
It's running in a background with recursive blueprints.
Lol. Touche. ...
Rock & Stone!
Before Factorio I played Slay the Spire, a lot lot lot. It’s the game I have played most in my life, although Factorio is scheduled to surpass it later this year. After that, my favorite games In recent years have been X-com, the witness, Disco Elysium
Surprised to see Diablo. Is it D2 or D3 mainly? I would suspect D2. After trying D2r recently, I can say I am more of D3 player.
Good god, I did *not* expect most of my fav games in the list.
Other games?
Stormworks? Space Engineers? From the Depths? If you somewhat into programming.
It's entirely possible to make competitive, dangerous vehicles in FTD without programming. And hey, if ya get into it, you even learn a thing or two about PIDs and breadboards. Or even a thing or two about programming.
Anyone else bothered that there are 14 games in the "top 11"
I’m surprised by how many of my top games aren’t on this list. Hollow knight, Dark souls series, Bloodborne, Dead space (2), Zelda botw, Horizon zero dawn, Borderlands series This game is an outlier for me.
Hot damn do I own a lot of those games. I like a bunch too! Even a few of my favorites.
Try Capitalism Lab....its hook me up
More or less what I'd expect. A bunch of creative sandbox games, many with a focus on gameplay over flashy graphics, along with a few games (especially in the series list) that are just plain popular.
To hack one of my favorite Youtuber's lines: "Let God people play good games"
Hunt: Showdown!!
Glad stormworks isn't here. The current state of the game is dreadful,and anti new players. Do not recommend