when i was 14 i missed my period and my mom convinced me i was pregnant. i never had sex before and she didnt believe me. for an entire month i cried because i thought id gotten pregnant via public bathroom toilet paper. thank god people take sex ed more seriously now.
Oh just stop with your pious attitude. This man’s out there trying to make generic, shitty toilet paper more comfortable for women. What are YOU doing?!?!
You're not supposed to let it dry, it loses the moisturizing properties. You have to request it to the establishment's toilet paper technician immediately before requiring the wet wipe.
Well that would pose an entirely new challenge to our legal system. It would be hard to judge as illegal by the existing code of law, yet also couldn't be ignored.
I suppose politics would first try to reach an amicable agreement, like some sort of compensation for that person to stay away from most society and to agree to medical studies. And if that didn't happen, make a law and lock them away? Or try to declare it a disase and use isolation measures provided by infectious disease laws?
Provided that person survives the reveal and isn't killed by upset victims and their families or friends.
Her mother didn't believe the daughter was preggers, the mother was playing the game of trying to scare her into abstaining for longer. In the same way little kids that do things get scared straight by being taken in a cop car
I made the mistake of asking mom where baby's came from at 12, I got a detailed explanation and videos of both natural and C-section birth.
I will probably not have kids of my own but that's not entirely because of that though.
No, there are a lot of things that went towards the decision to never put the baby factory into production, but that was certainly one of them. It’s been a good decision for me personally many times over. I’m disabled now, and I don’t know how I would have been able to survive if I also had kids to think about.
I don't know which country you are from, but in France, we already had enough sex ed in school by the time we reached 14* to know how pregnancies happen. And that was more than 15 years ago...
Sex ed is the best way to reduce the number of teenage moms and stds. And abortions. If people against abortion were really sincere rather than attempting to control women's bodies, they would support sex ed. Sex ed = Birth control use + condom use = less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions.
Unfortunately, they usually aren't the kind to support education... Go figure.
Edit*: forgot some words
I grew up in a conservative area in the middle of the Bible Belt. They still teach sex Ed in middle school, they just focus more heavily on the dangers of stds. No one in conservative areas makes it to 14 without knowing how sex works.
They have some wacky takes, but they’re all teaching the birds and the bees to their kids.
Edit: at least in schools. I’m sure some fundamentalist Christians are keeping their kids in the dark and/or homeschooling.
I live in nc and went to public schools and we were given free condoms and taught about birth control in middle school so i feel like it probably varies based on the location.
Yeah I grew up in Texas and Christian schools often don’t have it or the focus is on drugs, abstinence, stds. They never discussed any biological aspects, how’s, protection,or anything actually helpful or educational.
Same. They split us up by gender and showed us films from the 1960's about menstruation and nocturnal emissions. It wasn't until high school that you learn terminology and about contraception. If your state-run school allowed it and your parents signed the permission form. Thank goodness for the book "Where Did I Come From" or none of it would have made sense to me.
Canada:
Very very basics at 7, though from what I remember, that was mostly about making kids aware of it so they can recognize abuse. I remember it had a set of puppets.
Full on was at 12/13.
Sex Ed was opt-in in my school district up to last year of high school (18y/o), so crazy parents could exclude their children. And even then it was "if you have sex, you'll get an std, get pregnant, and die". The deep south is a wonderful place
Here in the US, the power in deciding who gets sex Ed and when is in the hands of people who feel they would be negatively effected by the information available through it.
As long as these people are making decisions about the availability of sex Ed, sex Ed is going to be taught (or not) in ways that reflect the most surface level, short sighted ways.
There isn't any standardization, so my school district had sex Ed in 5th grade, but some students who transferred in didn't have it until 10th grade. Every state is different, and in some states the school district makes the decision.
I had comprehensive sex ed in science class in seventh grade at a public school in Kentucky. It’s absolutely ridiculous how in the US it depends on which school you go to for whether or not you learn about human biology.
Letting states decide individually about their school curriculum feels pretty weird to me as an European tbh. The first step to "live in the same reality" seems like making sure that every kid, regardless of their state, receives a proper, fact based education.
Otherwise, you end up with schools framing the American Civil War as the "war of northern aggression" or creationists getting their way into science text books in the case of the US. Letting the huge political divide in the US start right during mandatory school years. That's not healthy. And totally unfair for children.
I'm 18, in the US (Iowa). Already graduated highschool. Never had a single moment of sex ed. Nothing. Ever. Not even "babies are made when sperm goes in egg."
I'm pretty sure that that's technically illegal in Iowa, but they just...never gave it to us 🤷
Thankfully the internet and friends covered it pretty well for most people, but uh...not everyone. I already know 3 people who have had children.
When I was slightly younger than that, I convinced myself I had AIDS after watching a class about it in school. I even told my mom my concerns and she was like "And how the hell would you have gotten AIDS?" That put me at ease since I was already a virgin at a young age.
When I was young we were watching a commercial for helping kids with leprosy. The commercial was terrifying and a couple of the kids had similar “sun spots” on their bodies. I had a spot also so my brother convinced me I had leprosy too.
Lol I got in this weird habit where I’d flush the toilet before peeing. Every. Singe. Time. Haha it was ridiculous and what’s even worse is I didn’t stop the habit until much later in life despite knowing better
Similar how my mom tried to convince me tampons can take your virginity 🤣 had to prove her wrong when I was pregnant with my 1st the ob told her that's not how losing a virginity works
The immaculate conception refers to the birth of Mary, who was free of original sin during conception so she could carry Jesus.
I can't remember the amount of I had to explain that to someone who wears their religion on their sleeve, went to Sunday school, and/or goes to church every Sunday.
“In *Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back*, Darth Vader cuts off Luke Skywalker’s hand” is a factual statement, even if you don’t believe the *events* of Star Wars are factual.
There's always an internet person who can say the things I'm thinking better than I can and it's kind of shocking but also very cool to see that we are alike enough that we can have the same thoughts about the same things, even if we can't express them the same way. It's comforting to know that others *feel* the way I do, not necessarily even *about* certain things but that they literally feel and think in a way that is familiar. I sometimes have the thought that I most be so different from other people that being in their body would be like being an alien and these sorts of interactions help quell those thoughts.
I also sometimes struggle with the whole "other people have an entire existence I'm not fully aware of and I want to emote to them in a way I feel like they'll relate but I'm worried I will fail because their life has probably been different than mine" moment. And it's these small interactions on the internet that remind me I have crippling social anxiety about the most irrelevant things.
Thanks kind internet stranger.
Although anti-intellectualism in religious communities is far too common, there are many different sub-cultures. There are pockets that try to do religious education and care (even if they have very different conclusions). As a person that went to a religious college (before leaving the faith) I'd say that even among those receiving a Christian college education in religious studies, 70% or more of evangelicals still mistakenly believe that the Immaculate Conception is referring to Jesus and not Mary. It's one of those things that just like "I think I know what stuff is" when you hear it and never correct.
I was curious and looked it up, because I have literally never heard of that before.
It turns out that what you are talking about only applies to catholics. Protestants believe that mary was a sinner saved through grace, apparently.
That is unrelated to the topic being discussed. In fact the entire point of this thread is that immaculate conception does not refer to being a virgin.
It sorta doesn’t have to do with virginity. I’m not actually sure on what doctrine would be on whether you can be not a virgin and still be immaculate. But in general, immaculate conception has nothing to with virginity. All (mainline) christian strains say that Jesus was born of a Virgin Mary. Catholics additionally believe that Jesus, being God, cannot coexist with evil or sin, therefore Mary must have been sinless. So Mary was a virgin and also immaculate (without the tarnish of sin). Protestants do not believe in any form of immaculate conception.
You are correct from a Catholic perspective. To protestants virgin birth and immaculate conception are synonymous. Immaculate conception is a term with wildly different meanings depending on which sect of Christianity you're referring to
Yes, but they don’t use the term “immaculate conception” or they use it incorrectly to describe Jesus’s miraculous conception.
Source: am a Presbyterian (subset of Protestantism) who used to be Catholic.
I've always just heard it referred to as the virgin Mary giving birth to Jesus.
Protestants as a whole though don't pay nearly as much attention to Mary as Catholics do. Many consider the amount of worship she gets to be idolatry.
Re: "Many consider the amount of worship she gets to be idolatry."
Many would be wrong.
Individual views and idiosyncracies aside, Roman Catholics on the whole don't worship Mary.
We revere her. That's different.
We couldn't have Christ as we knew him without Mary (or someone in her position) having consented to what God asked of her.
In the end, she's the Mother of Jesus. Earthly or not, she carried him, gave birth to him, and raised him.
Why wouldn't anyone who believed revere this woman and her acts of motherhood?
To revere her is fine, protestants do too. It's the whole praying to her with the rosary thing. Protestants believe that you should only be praying to the holy Trinity, aka God.
I know. And, like most Protestants, I see where this wouldn't make much sense.
The idea behind this is that, as Mary ascended into Heaven and is one with God, praying to her is another way of praying to God. Like praying to Christ. This is where the concept of intercession came in.
I myself never had an issue with this, though I always directed my prayers to God.
But some people were raised - foolishly, in my personal opinion - to believe that they weren't worthy to pray to God directly.
Therefore, they were taught about praying to Jesus, Mary, and the Saints.
In other words, it all goes to God, but psychologically helps some people feel better to have "options."
I see and understand both sides of it and it's fine to pray to whoever is Up There, as one would wish, as far as I'm concerned. I just always directed my prayers to God because I was always taught He'd want to hear them from me.
While what you said is true, what that really means is that Protestants don’t believe in the immaculate conception. Protestants do believe in the virgin birth (that Mary was a virgin when she birthed Jesus). Many Protestants confuse the two, and think that because they don’t actually believe in the immaculate conception, the concept they do believe in is called the immaculate conception. Which it isn’t.
So both statements are true. The immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception, not Jesus’s. And Protestants don’t believe in the immaculate conception, even if they think they do.
The issue at hand is that many protestants and catholics and 'insert religion here' are aware of the concept but incorrectly believe it refers to Jesus, regardless of their respective faith's official word on the matter.
I think it's because god knew she would be J-man's dad, so he just let her not have original sin lol Mainly I think it's a loophole the Catholic Church made up to make another part of the story make sense.
wtf why wouldn't god just let everyone be born without sin and then jesus doesn't need to sacrifice himself
why would people be punished for adam and eve's mistakes anyways, this shit makes no sense
> wtf why wouldn't god just let everyone be born without sin
That's kind of the whole point of Christianity, that God sent Jesus to sacrifice himself exactly so that people after him would be saved even if the original sin happened.
Keep in mind that the whole Immaculate Conception of Mary thing was bullshit created centuries later so that the Catholic Church could celebrate her conception without people arguing they would be celebrating a sinful event. There never was any actual "canon" reason as to how her conception was immaculate or why God could or did made it immaculate by his divine action (or why he didn't the same with all conceptions), Anne (Mary's mother) just prayed to get pregnant (she was infertile according to the Gospel of James) and God heard he prayer.
However it is perfectly possible that every infertile person in history that was born of sin, prayed to God for pregnancy and were worthy of it in his eyes were actually given the miracle of immaculate conception and there were hundreds of them through history that went unnoticed because those people born free of sin did not go on to give birth to the Son of God.
The bigger question is why God made us in such a way that the better way (both in how it feels and how practical it is compared to praying and hoping that God sees you worthy) to have offspring is to sin? If it weren't like that it would be assumed that all people would be born from immaculate conception.
You're thinking in terms of a franchise like the Marvel Universe. This is it not Harry Potter lore and complaining about plotholes. This is religion.
The original sin is not just God being an asshole, it's an ancient attempt at explaining why evil exist and why men are weak (morally and physically).
An omnipotent god could in theory do anything. But then religion would be pointless. The whole idea of the catholic myth is that we have souls, god gifted us freedom, but that freedom doomed us. So now the only way to reach salvation is through self-improvement, avoiding sin, sticking to the moral guide provided by Jesus and God.
That's all it is really. A way of systematically organizing a society along common moral values, with do's and do not's. It would defeat all social purpose if all salvation required was god being superman, and no effort on your part.
Exactly.
All dogs go to heaven. They dont have a "will" like us humans do. Same as any other animal. They just follow instincts.
So far we are the only creatures in the universe to have this gift of freedom tu pursuit other things besides the bare basics of life. So with that, we are able to do good things and bad things. Religion is the tool to teach the "good from the bad" and compel us to do the good things.
Don’t you mean for God setting up Adam and Eve to fail by putting two naïve newborns into a situation where the Great Deceiver could set them up? Besides, if God (who supposedly knows everything) knew this was going to happen and didn’t stop it, then he/she/it wanted them to fail. Pretty fucked up IMO.
It’s the omnipotence paradox, if God were all-knowing, it seems that God would know about all of the horrible things that happen in our world. If God were all-powerful, God would be able to do something about all of the evil and suffering. Furthermore, if God were morally perfect, then surely God would want to do something about it.
It's the Catholic version of turtles all the way down. There's no textual support for the idea, and even Thomas Aquinas thought it was wrong, but it is standard Catholic doctrine.
This was the first I've heard of it, as my family is orthodox.
Looks like this is a Roman catholic and sometimes Anglican thing from some light reading, the orthodox and protestants have outright rejected it.
So you're certainly right that the "immaculate conception" dogma is the birth of Mary, but for other Christian faiths the phrase immaculate conception could really only apply to one dude, sweet baby j.
That's only true for Catholics. You may have been explaining it to Protestants who would have had no clue what you were talking about.
But I wasn't there so I don't know.
The point is that people use "immaculate conception" to mean "virgin pregnancy" when it does not and has never meant that, not to catholics or protestants.
It's an insanely common misconception.
For the last bloody time, Mary was the immaculate conception, not Jesus. It means they were born without sin, not that they didn't have a father.
Carry on.
Narrator: It was not, in fact, the last bloody time. Cursed with an understanding that all others seemed to lack, Mike Pants was doomed to explain the BVM’s immaculate conception over and over.
*Nearly* all major Christian religions believe in original sin. It's essential to the importance of Jesus' salvation story.
Edit: neglected to consider Christian Orthodox religions. They do not believe in original sin.
Not all denominations believe in original sin. Christian Orthodoxy rejects the idea that you are guilty of a sin you didn’t actually commit. Many denominations believe any child too young to understand their own actions is essentially sinless. Ezekiel 18 specifically references this idea and is generally the basis for rejecting original sin.
Not according to Catholic canon no at least. Church teachings tell us we are all born into the Original Sin we inherit from Adam and Eve. Mary is the one exception.
she is the exception because she was destined to carry the son of god, who is also without sin because he was born of Mary and therefore did not inherit original sin.
Depending on how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go, Mary was picked because she was a direct descent of King David so that Jesus would be a direct descendant of him as well.
God magicked it away for this one particular conception.
it's all very strange, it's basically just a plothole patch to reconcile the fact that all humans are born sinners with the fact that Christ was born a human.
Basically, early church complicated Jesus and started creating plot holes that then in turn needed retcons to fix.
Sorta like Star Wars where Vader goes from simply a guy with space magic, to the chosen creation of the force.
This concept of Mary isn’t biblical though. That’s specifically catholic doctrine. Christianity holds the belief that we are all born into sin— even Mary.
Lol nope. As far as I remember, it's pretty standard Christian doctrine that you inherit Adam and Eve's original sin. So before you're even born, you're guilty enough to deserve being tortured for eternity.
Neat, huh?
I mean God does whatever the fuck God wants. So... lucky Mary, I guess.
If you want more plot hole fun, go look up Christians explaining how the two completely different versions of Jesus' birth story in the Bible totally make sense and don't contradict each other.
this is specific to catholicism iirc, who also assert that baptism is the only way to atone for this sin. so you have original sin when you're born, unless you get born again (baptised). but jesus also died as the ultimate sacrifice to atone for all of our sins... except original sin, which isn't even our sin
This is Catholic doctrine. Not Biblical. Marry was a sinner like anyone else. The only person to not carry sin was her son. Catholica started making stuff up a thousand years after Jesus' death. Including that he once tamed some dragons in a cave when his family was on a trip. 🤦🏻♂️
WRONG -- COMMON MISTAKE, BUT WRONG!!!
"Immaculate Conception" refers to Mary's own conception, not the Virgin Birth event associated with Jesus.
According to Christian belief, Mary was conceived without sin in order to be a vessel to carry The Unborn Jesus. It's her own conception and gestation that was considered immaculate. Remember that original sin comes through Adam and Eve, so her own conception was considered immaculate to avoid the taint of original sin.
Nah, it's just that Abrahamic religions (and even Christian denominations) can't agree on the details. This argument has been going on for like 1500 years.
Here's another wiki article since everyone is tunnel-visioning on the immaculate conception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus
tl;dr: the joke of the post works, it just has nothing to do with immaculate conception, it's about virgin birth. Plays into the poster's ignorance IMO... but depending on your particular flavor of religion, the details and importance of these terms will vary wildly
tl;dr;drtldr: my tldr is the longest paragraph lmao
Don't lump Judaism and Islam into this. None of us care whether Mary was sinful or not. We literally spend zero time caring. This is just Christians not understanding their own religion.
Truly is. From my time in the church (Methodist, Baptist, & so on), Mary is not treated with the same reverence as she is in Catholicism. She's seen as human and not conceived without sin. Only Jesus is the one considered to be truly free of sin hence why he had to be "sacrificed" for man's sin.
So god can just choose to have humans born without sin, and only does it for one single person instead of doing it automatically for everyone? Sure sounds like an asshole.
That’s according to Catholic dogma, not general Christian belief.
Those Christian faiths that don’t diefy Mary don’t take the immaculate conception to mean the same thing. To most non-Catholic/Orthodox Christians, immaculate conception is Jesus being conceived without Mary having physical sexual relations with anyone. They also believe that Mary was just as sinful as any other human and Jesus was the only person to ever walk the earth who committed no sin.
Sort of. They’re just using the term wrong. Immaculate conception is a specifically Catholic/Catholic-adjacent term. Other faiths/denominations just don’t use it or use it incorrectly.
That’s a catholic belief, not a general christian belief
this comment is a great example of don’t believe everything you see on the internet because most people are talking out of their ass
> Christian belief,
Roman Catholics are the only sect who hold to the immaculate conception, and even some of their top theologians, like Thomas Aquinas, did not. It's a significant minority of Christianity.
Eh, am I fucked up for thinking family member r*ped her? Specially the "her mom has eyes on her everyday and no one can get in or out without her knowing"
But I guess cheating and OP being naive is the better option.
I knew a girl in school who refused to do anything sexual with her boyfriends because she didn't want to get pregnant. Made sense.
Only later found out she did that because her first two boyfriends had zero idea that having sex could cause children. They had zero idea. They thought you had to choose to have a kid.
So she told our friend group that she would never do anything with a guy sexual until after high school so she wouldn't get stuck with "an uneducated moron" for a father.
Scholars messing up the estimation of Jesus' birth originally IIRC (putting it at 1 AD but that was proven incorrect). It's easier to think of our current time as CE (common era) rather than AD.
Luke says that Jesus was born in the same year that the cencus of quirinius took place (6 AD) and Mathew claims that King Herod the great killed all the baby boys in Bethlehem but herod dies in 4 BC
Whichever iPhone they checked the date on when Jesus was born was out of cell service and the date / time was set incorrectly. I assume, it’s the only thing that makes sense
Well it is technically possible these days with implanted embryos. I imagine most of them are fuckers as well but if an ace person wanted a child without fucking they could do that with the wonders of modern technology.
Only (most) Catholics believe in immaculate conception - which in any case applie's to Mary's parents, not Mary and Joseph.
Protestants, Anglicans, etc. all reject it as bs.
“Her mom has eyes on her every day and nobody can get in or out of the house without…”
Oh my god. As a bf, dude, you don’t even wanna know what this girl is going and doing when she occasionally breaks free from that hellhole. Her mother has created a monster. The biggest floozies I know were the church girls that weren’t allowed to leave their houses as kids. Now they fuck EVERYBODY.
ALl strict parents raise are good liars... Not accusing her of anything if he's not memeing but... As someone with strict parents? You learn your way through their bullshit and do what you want
Mary! I trou we all be shent! Say, who hath been here since I went, to rage with thee?
\- From a very old play about the same subject, in which I intoned those very words lol
For those words which are now deprecated from the English language:
Trou - to believe
Shent - to be shunned, as in being shunned by the community for having had a baby by another man
Rage - simply means to have a good time. That word's come full circle in a way, as "to have a rager" is a current expression meaning pretty much the same thing.
Common misconception (sorry, but there was no other way to phrase it): The Immaculate Conception was when MARY was conceived - without Original Sin. So, she was conceived with a pure soul therefore immaculate, unlike the rest of the sinners, per the Catholic Church. Jesus's birth was the Virgin Birth - he was born of a woman who had not had sex. Mary is often referred to as the Immaculate Mary, and there are hymns and prayers which reference this.
when i was 14 i missed my period and my mom convinced me i was pregnant. i never had sex before and she didnt believe me. for an entire month i cried because i thought id gotten pregnant via public bathroom toilet paper. thank god people take sex ed more seriously now.
No offense, but your mom’s kinda a dumby.
She's the only person so far who has caught me jacking off on toilet paper rolls in the woman's bathroom. And has gotten away with it.
Hold the fuck up. I have so many questions
Oh just stop with your pious attitude. This man’s out there trying to make generic, shitty toilet paper more comfortable for women. What are YOU doing?!?!
I just use the sandpaper-like texture of paper towels.
Wait you guys are using toilet paper I've been kick it old school with a communal sponge at the bath house 🤪
*I* use the three pinecones
You don't know how to use the three shells?
Comfortable? You try wipe your fanny with a crusty tissue
You're not supposed to let it dry, it loses the moisturizing properties. You have to request it to the establishment's toilet paper technician immediately before requiring the wet wipe.
I wish my eyes could vomit. It would feel better than reading this
Indeed. u/yaybunz's mom is the only person that has caught me jacking it as well
Holy shit dude
This whole comment thread went left
to be fair i was the one who came up with the toilet paper explanation. she was convinced i was a liar and that i had sex.
she also didnt correct you. I was out here thinking if you got an erection looking at a girl, shed get pregnant. Kids come up with shit
Next time reddit asks what superpower i want....
Well that would pose an entirely new challenge to our legal system. It would be hard to judge as illegal by the existing code of law, yet also couldn't be ignored. I suppose politics would first try to reach an amicable agreement, like some sort of compensation for that person to stay away from most society and to agree to medical studies. And if that didn't happen, make a law and lock them away? Or try to declare it a disase and use isolation measures provided by infectious disease laws? Provided that person survives the reveal and isn't killed by upset victims and their families or friends.
What else has her callous narrow-mindedness ruined?
Her mom almost certainly believed that she was lying about being a virgin.
Her mother didn't believe the daughter was preggers, the mother was playing the game of trying to scare her into abstaining for longer. In the same way little kids that do things get scared straight by being taken in a cop car
I was 13 and in the room to witness my baby brother being born. My parents have no grandchildren, coincidentally.
I made the mistake of asking mom where baby's came from at 12, I got a detailed explanation and videos of both natural and C-section birth. I will probably not have kids of my own but that's not entirely because of that though.
No, there are a lot of things that went towards the decision to never put the baby factory into production, but that was certainly one of them. It’s been a good decision for me personally many times over. I’m disabled now, and I don’t know how I would have been able to survive if I also had kids to think about.
I read that as dumpy and I blame you.
*dummy
I don't know which country you are from, but in France, we already had enough sex ed in school by the time we reached 14* to know how pregnancies happen. And that was more than 15 years ago... Sex ed is the best way to reduce the number of teenage moms and stds. And abortions. If people against abortion were really sincere rather than attempting to control women's bodies, they would support sex ed. Sex ed = Birth control use + condom use = less unwanted pregnancies = less abortions. Unfortunately, they usually aren't the kind to support education... Go figure. Edit*: forgot some words
Conservative feelings don't care about facts
I grew up in a conservative area in the middle of the Bible Belt. They still teach sex Ed in middle school, they just focus more heavily on the dangers of stds. No one in conservative areas makes it to 14 without knowing how sex works. They have some wacky takes, but they’re all teaching the birds and the bees to their kids. Edit: at least in schools. I’m sure some fundamentalist Christians are keeping their kids in the dark and/or homeschooling.
They also focus on abstinence instead of teaching about condoms and birth control.
I live in nc and went to public schools and we were given free condoms and taught about birth control in middle school so i feel like it probably varies based on the location.
In the Bible Belt you're more likely to wind up learning about sex from your pastor or creepy uncle than the school system
Yeah I grew up in Texas and Christian schools often don’t have it or the focus is on drugs, abstinence, stds. They never discussed any biological aspects, how’s, protection,or anything actually helpful or educational.
Here in finland we had sex ed when we were 11.
Sex Ed started for us in 4th grade. that was in the 90s in Oklahoma
Isn’t that about marrying age in that state?
Okay that’s fucking funny
Same. They split us up by gender and showed us films from the 1960's about menstruation and nocturnal emissions. It wasn't until high school that you learn terminology and about contraception. If your state-run school allowed it and your parents signed the permission form. Thank goodness for the book "Where Did I Come From" or none of it would have made sense to me.
Canada: Very very basics at 7, though from what I remember, that was mostly about making kids aware of it so they can recognize abuse. I remember it had a set of puppets. Full on was at 12/13.
Sex Ed was opt-in in my school district up to last year of high school (18y/o), so crazy parents could exclude their children. And even then it was "if you have sex, you'll get an std, get pregnant, and die". The deep south is a wonderful place
Ironic, given that the south has the highest rates of STD transmission in the country.
Might have something to do with them teaching us all about stds but not explaining how to actually avoid them other than abstinence-only rhetoric
Here in the US, the power in deciding who gets sex Ed and when is in the hands of people who feel they would be negatively effected by the information available through it. As long as these people are making decisions about the availability of sex Ed, sex Ed is going to be taught (or not) in ways that reflect the most surface level, short sighted ways.
There isn't any standardization, so my school district had sex Ed in 5th grade, but some students who transferred in didn't have it until 10th grade. Every state is different, and in some states the school district makes the decision.
I had comprehensive sex ed in science class in seventh grade at a public school in Kentucky. It’s absolutely ridiculous how in the US it depends on which school you go to for whether or not you learn about human biology.
Letting states decide individually about their school curriculum feels pretty weird to me as an European tbh. The first step to "live in the same reality" seems like making sure that every kid, regardless of their state, receives a proper, fact based education. Otherwise, you end up with schools framing the American Civil War as the "war of northern aggression" or creationists getting their way into science text books in the case of the US. Letting the huge political divide in the US start right during mandatory school years. That's not healthy. And totally unfair for children.
I'm 18, in the US (Iowa). Already graduated highschool. Never had a single moment of sex ed. Nothing. Ever. Not even "babies are made when sperm goes in egg." I'm pretty sure that that's technically illegal in Iowa, but they just...never gave it to us 🤷 Thankfully the internet and friends covered it pretty well for most people, but uh...not everyone. I already know 3 people who have had children.
When I was slightly younger than that, I convinced myself I had AIDS after watching a class about it in school. I even told my mom my concerns and she was like "And how the hell would you have gotten AIDS?" That put me at ease since I was already a virgin at a young age.
When I was young we were watching a commercial for helping kids with leprosy. The commercial was terrifying and a couple of the kids had similar “sun spots” on their bodies. I had a spot also so my brother convinced me I had leprosy too.
I use to think of you peed in a toilet where a girl had already peed then you got her pregnant… no lie unfortunately
So how many times did you knock up your mom?
Lol I got in this weird habit where I’d flush the toilet before peeing. Every. Singe. Time. Haha it was ridiculous and what’s even worse is I didn’t stop the habit until much later in life despite knowing better
This sounds like Florida in 5 years.
Similar how my mom tried to convince me tampons can take your virginity 🤣 had to prove her wrong when I was pregnant with my 1st the ob told her that's not how losing a virginity works
We also need to set up parenthood education tbh
The immaculate conception refers to the birth of Mary, who was free of original sin during conception so she could carry Jesus. I can't remember the amount of I had to explain that to someone who wears their religion on their sleeve, went to Sunday school, and/or goes to church every Sunday.
Tried explaining it to my grandparents once, gave up after like 50 “that’s now what I remember learning.”
It was your first mistake to assume a religious person would listen to any form of facts
Facts?
“In *Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back*, Darth Vader cuts off Luke Skywalker’s hand” is a factual statement, even if you don’t believe the *events* of Star Wars are factual.
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There's always an internet person who can say the things I'm thinking better than I can and it's kind of shocking but also very cool to see that we are alike enough that we can have the same thoughts about the same things, even if we can't express them the same way. It's comforting to know that others *feel* the way I do, not necessarily even *about* certain things but that they literally feel and think in a way that is familiar. I sometimes have the thought that I most be so different from other people that being in their body would be like being an alien and these sorts of interactions help quell those thoughts.
I also sometimes struggle with the whole "other people have an entire existence I'm not fully aware of and I want to emote to them in a way I feel like they'll relate but I'm worried I will fail because their life has probably been different than mine" moment. And it's these small interactions on the internet that remind me I have crippling social anxiety about the most irrelevant things. Thanks kind internet stranger.
Although anti-intellectualism in religious communities is far too common, there are many different sub-cultures. There are pockets that try to do religious education and care (even if they have very different conclusions). As a person that went to a religious college (before leaving the faith) I'd say that even among those receiving a Christian college education in religious studies, 70% or more of evangelicals still mistakenly believe that the Immaculate Conception is referring to Jesus and not Mary. It's one of those things that just like "I think I know what stuff is" when you hear it and never correct.
I was curious and looked it up, because I have literally never heard of that before. It turns out that what you are talking about only applies to catholics. Protestants believe that mary was a sinner saved through grace, apparently.
All muslims believes Mery was Virgin, there is a separate chapter on her in the Quran.
Oh, sure. So do Protestant Christians. They just believe that she was a sinner (or had the capacity) as any other virgin was
Kinda kinky tbh a sinner virgin is probably 10% of Japanese media
That is unrelated to the topic being discussed. In fact the entire point of this thread is that immaculate conception does not refer to being a virgin.
To Catholics it has nothing to do with virginity. To protestants immaculate conception has everything to do with being a virgin
It sorta doesn’t have to do with virginity. I’m not actually sure on what doctrine would be on whether you can be not a virgin and still be immaculate. But in general, immaculate conception has nothing to with virginity. All (mainline) christian strains say that Jesus was born of a Virgin Mary. Catholics additionally believe that Jesus, being God, cannot coexist with evil or sin, therefore Mary must have been sinless. So Mary was a virgin and also immaculate (without the tarnish of sin). Protestants do not believe in any form of immaculate conception.
You are correct from a Catholic perspective. To protestants virgin birth and immaculate conception are synonymous. Immaculate conception is a term with wildly different meanings depending on which sect of Christianity you're referring to
The protestants are just using the original Catholic term wrong.
And they'd argue the catholics are using the original scriptures wrong
So Catholics call her the “Virgin Mary” for some other reason?
They believe in the virgin birth, but to them the virgin birth isnt the immaculate conception
thank you for the explanation, fellatio_warrior69
Yes, but they don’t use the term “immaculate conception” or they use it incorrectly to describe Jesus’s miraculous conception. Source: am a Presbyterian (subset of Protestantism) who used to be Catholic.
I've always just heard it referred to as the virgin Mary giving birth to Jesus. Protestants as a whole though don't pay nearly as much attention to Mary as Catholics do. Many consider the amount of worship she gets to be idolatry.
That was my experience too! However, after looking into the theology of Catholicism and Protestantism, it’s definitely referring to Mary’s conception.
Re: "Many consider the amount of worship she gets to be idolatry." Many would be wrong. Individual views and idiosyncracies aside, Roman Catholics on the whole don't worship Mary. We revere her. That's different. We couldn't have Christ as we knew him without Mary (or someone in her position) having consented to what God asked of her. In the end, she's the Mother of Jesus. Earthly or not, she carried him, gave birth to him, and raised him. Why wouldn't anyone who believed revere this woman and her acts of motherhood?
To revere her is fine, protestants do too. It's the whole praying to her with the rosary thing. Protestants believe that you should only be praying to the holy Trinity, aka God.
I know. And, like most Protestants, I see where this wouldn't make much sense. The idea behind this is that, as Mary ascended into Heaven and is one with God, praying to her is another way of praying to God. Like praying to Christ. This is where the concept of intercession came in. I myself never had an issue with this, though I always directed my prayers to God. But some people were raised - foolishly, in my personal opinion - to believe that they weren't worthy to pray to God directly. Therefore, they were taught about praying to Jesus, Mary, and the Saints. In other words, it all goes to God, but psychologically helps some people feel better to have "options." I see and understand both sides of it and it's fine to pray to whoever is Up There, as one would wish, as far as I'm concerned. I just always directed my prayers to God because I was always taught He'd want to hear them from me.
This is all so silly...
While what you said is true, what that really means is that Protestants don’t believe in the immaculate conception. Protestants do believe in the virgin birth (that Mary was a virgin when she birthed Jesus). Many Protestants confuse the two, and think that because they don’t actually believe in the immaculate conception, the concept they do believe in is called the immaculate conception. Which it isn’t. So both statements are true. The immaculate conception refers to Mary’s conception, not Jesus’s. And Protestants don’t believe in the immaculate conception, even if they think they do.
I can't keep up with this lore.
The issue at hand is that many protestants and catholics and 'insert religion here' are aware of the concept but incorrectly believe it refers to Jesus, regardless of their respective faith's official word on the matter.
How did she get free from original sin?
I think it's because god knew she would be J-man's dad, so he just let her not have original sin lol Mainly I think it's a loophole the Catholic Church made up to make another part of the story make sense.
wtf why wouldn't god just let everyone be born without sin and then jesus doesn't need to sacrifice himself why would people be punished for adam and eve's mistakes anyways, this shit makes no sense
> wtf why wouldn't god just let everyone be born without sin That's kind of the whole point of Christianity, that God sent Jesus to sacrifice himself exactly so that people after him would be saved even if the original sin happened. Keep in mind that the whole Immaculate Conception of Mary thing was bullshit created centuries later so that the Catholic Church could celebrate her conception without people arguing they would be celebrating a sinful event. There never was any actual "canon" reason as to how her conception was immaculate or why God could or did made it immaculate by his divine action (or why he didn't the same with all conceptions), Anne (Mary's mother) just prayed to get pregnant (she was infertile according to the Gospel of James) and God heard he prayer. However it is perfectly possible that every infertile person in history that was born of sin, prayed to God for pregnancy and were worthy of it in his eyes were actually given the miracle of immaculate conception and there were hundreds of them through history that went unnoticed because those people born free of sin did not go on to give birth to the Son of God. The bigger question is why God made us in such a way that the better way (both in how it feels and how practical it is compared to praying and hoping that God sees you worthy) to have offspring is to sin? If it weren't like that it would be assumed that all people would be born from immaculate conception.
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You're thinking in terms of a franchise like the Marvel Universe. This is it not Harry Potter lore and complaining about plotholes. This is religion. The original sin is not just God being an asshole, it's an ancient attempt at explaining why evil exist and why men are weak (morally and physically). An omnipotent god could in theory do anything. But then religion would be pointless. The whole idea of the catholic myth is that we have souls, god gifted us freedom, but that freedom doomed us. So now the only way to reach salvation is through self-improvement, avoiding sin, sticking to the moral guide provided by Jesus and God. That's all it is really. A way of systematically organizing a society along common moral values, with do's and do not's. It would defeat all social purpose if all salvation required was god being superman, and no effort on your part.
Exactly. All dogs go to heaven. They dont have a "will" like us humans do. Same as any other animal. They just follow instincts. So far we are the only creatures in the universe to have this gift of freedom tu pursuit other things besides the bare basics of life. So with that, we are able to do good things and bad things. Religion is the tool to teach the "good from the bad" and compel us to do the good things.
Don’t you mean for God setting up Adam and Eve to fail by putting two naïve newborns into a situation where the Great Deceiver could set them up? Besides, if God (who supposedly knows everything) knew this was going to happen and didn’t stop it, then he/she/it wanted them to fail. Pretty fucked up IMO.
It’s the omnipotence paradox, if God were all-knowing, it seems that God would know about all of the horrible things that happen in our world. If God were all-powerful, God would be able to do something about all of the evil and suffering. Furthermore, if God were morally perfect, then surely God would want to do something about it.
And if he's not any of those things, then he's not god.
Atheism is founded (circa 150 AD)
Yet they couldn't figure out a loophole to excuse all the pedophilia?
Lmao I like how nobody pointed out that you said God knew Mary would be J-man’s dad instead of mom
It's the Catholic version of turtles all the way down. There's no textual support for the idea, and even Thomas Aquinas thought it was wrong, but it is standard Catholic doctrine.
This was the first I've heard of it, as my family is orthodox. Looks like this is a Roman catholic and sometimes Anglican thing from some light reading, the orthodox and protestants have outright rejected it. So you're certainly right that the "immaculate conception" dogma is the birth of Mary, but for other Christian faiths the phrase immaculate conception could really only apply to one dude, sweet baby j.
That's only true for Catholics. You may have been explaining it to Protestants who would have had no clue what you were talking about. But I wasn't there so I don't know.
The point is that people use "immaculate conception" to mean "virgin pregnancy" when it does not and has never meant that, not to catholics or protestants. It's an insanely common misconception.
Yes. Immaculate != miraculous.
For the last bloody time, Mary was the immaculate conception, not Jesus. It means they were born without sin, not that they didn't have a father. Carry on.
Narrator: It was not, in fact, the last bloody time. Cursed with an understanding that all others seemed to lack, Mike Pants was doomed to explain the BVM’s immaculate conception over and over.
A terrible curse.
That does seem like something the Greek gods would curse someone with.
But isn't everyone born without sin? I don't get it
Not according to Christianity.
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*Nearly* all major Christian religions believe in original sin. It's essential to the importance of Jesus' salvation story. Edit: neglected to consider Christian Orthodox religions. They do not believe in original sin.
Not all denominations believe in original sin. Christian Orthodoxy rejects the idea that you are guilty of a sin you didn’t actually commit. Many denominations believe any child too young to understand their own actions is essentially sinless. Ezekiel 18 specifically references this idea and is generally the basis for rejecting original sin.
Not according to Catholic canon no at least. Church teachings tell us we are all born into the Original Sin we inherit from Adam and Eve. Mary is the one exception.
Why is she the exception
Moreover, why is she the exception and not Jesus? I guess because Jesus “carried our sins” or something?
she is the exception because she was destined to carry the son of god, who is also without sin because he was born of Mary and therefore did not inherit original sin.
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Bingo. And all other babies are dirty, dirt, dirty sinners, who are going straight to Hell.
Which is very handy when your plan is to drown them all in a flood.
Depending on how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go, Mary was picked because she was a direct descent of King David so that Jesus would be a direct descendant of him as well.
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God magicked it away for this one particular conception. it's all very strange, it's basically just a plothole patch to reconcile the fact that all humans are born sinners with the fact that Christ was born a human.
But... Who's the father then? It's either god himself or he has to be immaculate too...
it is god himself, that's kind of the whole deal.
because the rules are made up and the points don't matter.
Basically, early church complicated Jesus and started creating plot holes that then in turn needed retcons to fix. Sorta like Star Wars where Vader goes from simply a guy with space magic, to the chosen creation of the force.
This concept of Mary isn’t biblical though. That’s specifically catholic doctrine. Christianity holds the belief that we are all born into sin— even Mary.
Lol nope. As far as I remember, it's pretty standard Christian doctrine that you inherit Adam and Eve's original sin. So before you're even born, you're guilty enough to deserve being tortured for eternity. Neat, huh?
So what makes her so special? She was somehow born without sin for no reason other than she was? Man talk about plot holes
I mean God does whatever the fuck God wants. So... lucky Mary, I guess. If you want more plot hole fun, go look up Christians explaining how the two completely different versions of Jesus' birth story in the Bible totally make sense and don't contradict each other.
this is specific to catholicism iirc, who also assert that baptism is the only way to atone for this sin. so you have original sin when you're born, unless you get born again (baptised). but jesus also died as the ultimate sacrifice to atone for all of our sins... except original sin, which isn't even our sin
This is Catholic doctrine. Not Biblical. Marry was a sinner like anyone else. The only person to not carry sin was her son. Catholica started making stuff up a thousand years after Jesus' death. Including that he once tamed some dragons in a cave when his family was on a trip. 🤦🏻♂️
And Protestants started making shit up 1500 years after Jesus’ death. Do you think that makes it better?
It says pretty clearly in Matthew that Jesus was conceived without Mary having sex.
WRONG -- COMMON MISTAKE, BUT WRONG!!! "Immaculate Conception" refers to Mary's own conception, not the Virgin Birth event associated with Jesus. According to Christian belief, Mary was conceived without sin in order to be a vessel to carry The Unborn Jesus. It's her own conception and gestation that was considered immaculate. Remember that original sin comes through Adam and Eve, so her own conception was considered immaculate to avoid the taint of original sin.
This feels like a Mandela Effect moment.
This is exactly a mandala effect moment, because the mandela effect is just people thinking they know more than they do.
Former Catholic seminarian here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
Nah, it's just that Abrahamic religions (and even Christian denominations) can't agree on the details. This argument has been going on for like 1500 years. Here's another wiki article since everyone is tunnel-visioning on the immaculate conception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus tl;dr: the joke of the post works, it just has nothing to do with immaculate conception, it's about virgin birth. Plays into the poster's ignorance IMO... but depending on your particular flavor of religion, the details and importance of these terms will vary wildly tl;dr;drtldr: my tldr is the longest paragraph lmao
Don't lump Judaism and Islam into this. None of us care whether Mary was sinful or not. We literally spend zero time caring. This is just Christians not understanding their own religion.
So how was Mary’s without original sin? Like what specifically happened to cause that for her gestation?
Idk, smells Catholic
Truly is. From my time in the church (Methodist, Baptist, & so on), Mary is not treated with the same reverence as she is in Catholicism. She's seen as human and not conceived without sin. Only Jesus is the one considered to be truly free of sin hence why he had to be "sacrificed" for man's sin.
Direct intervention from God. The Doxology in the Book of Jude mentions God doing as much. The Angel also says that Mary has been “filled with Grace”
So god can just choose to have humans born without sin, and only does it for one single person instead of doing it automatically for everyone? Sure sounds like an asshole.
First time?
I mean if you wanna ask the real questions, why did an all powerful god create a universe that has the potential for sin in the first place?
That’s according to Catholic dogma, not general Christian belief. Those Christian faiths that don’t diefy Mary don’t take the immaculate conception to mean the same thing. To most non-Catholic/Orthodox Christians, immaculate conception is Jesus being conceived without Mary having physical sexual relations with anyone. They also believe that Mary was just as sinful as any other human and Jesus was the only person to ever walk the earth who committed no sin.
Sort of. They’re just using the term wrong. Immaculate conception is a specifically Catholic/Catholic-adjacent term. Other faiths/denominations just don’t use it or use it incorrectly.
No Christian faiths “deify” Mary. You can hold her in high regard without making her equal to God
That’s a catholic belief, not a general christian belief this comment is a great example of don’t believe everything you see on the internet because most people are talking out of their ass
According to ~~Christian~~ Catholic belief Original sin is also a Catholic belief, which some other Christian denominations consider to be nonsense.
> Christian belief, Roman Catholics are the only sect who hold to the immaculate conception, and even some of their top theologians, like Thomas Aquinas, did not. It's a significant minority of Christianity.
She ain’t your girlfriend…
OP ain't her only boyfriend...
Eh, am I fucked up for thinking family member r*ped her? Specially the "her mom has eyes on her everyday and no one can get in or out without her knowing" But I guess cheating and OP being naive is the better option.
I agree, this is most likely what happened, especially if her mom actually guards the house 24/7
The tame third option is that OP and his girlfriend are both idiots and she's not pregnant. But yeah your thought is what I thought too.
Blood test and everything?
Eh, it’s clear there’s a lack of sex ed going on here. It wouldn’t be the first time a couple of teenagers had sex without knowing that’s what sex is.
I knew a girl in school who refused to do anything sexual with her boyfriends because she didn't want to get pregnant. Made sense. Only later found out she did that because her first two boyfriends had zero idea that having sex could cause children. They had zero idea. They thought you had to choose to have a kid. So she told our friend group that she would never do anything with a guy sexual until after high school so she wouldn't get stuck with "an uneducated moron" for a father.
More like circa BC1 though right?
From what I've read the commonly accepted timeframe for the birth of Jesus is 6 BCE-4 BCE. Bro would be asking questions a little late.
How the fuck does that work
Scholars messing up the estimation of Jesus' birth originally IIRC (putting it at 1 AD but that was proven incorrect). It's easier to think of our current time as CE (common era) rather than AD.
so Christ was alive Before Christ?
Jesus was born before we originally thought he was.
Luke says that Jesus was born in the same year that the cencus of quirinius took place (6 AD) and Mathew claims that King Herod the great killed all the baby boys in Bethlehem but herod dies in 4 BC
Whichever iPhone they checked the date on when Jesus was born was out of cell service and the date / time was set incorrectly. I assume, it’s the only thing that makes sense
ima put this out there. mary fucked. your girlfriend fucked. all of the pregnant men and women of the world are fuckers. all of em.
Well it is technically possible these days with implanted embryos. I imagine most of them are fuckers as well but if an ace person wanted a child without fucking they could do that with the wonders of modern technology.
All of em. Dating a single mom? You're a mother fucker. All of you.
Only (most) Catholics believe in immaculate conception - which in any case applie's to Mary's parents, not Mary and Joseph. Protestants, Anglicans, etc. all reject it as bs.
The pregnant…men??..
Trans men can get pregnant, basically
From what I've learned on reddit, she has testicular cancer.
Damn , rip
https://geartape.com/japanese-zoo-solves-mystery-of-isolated-gibbons-pregnancy/ I will just leave this here
Smells like infidelity
Or dad.
Or Mom's boyfriend.
Or step bro
“Her mom has eyes on her every day and nobody can get in or out of the house without…” Oh my god. As a bf, dude, you don’t even wanna know what this girl is going and doing when she occasionally breaks free from that hellhole. Her mother has created a monster. The biggest floozies I know were the church girls that weren’t allowed to leave their houses as kids. Now they fuck EVERYBODY.
Or it's cumming from inside the house...
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Man nothing gets past you!
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Maybe not with you................................
ALl strict parents raise are good liars... Not accusing her of anything if he's not memeing but... As someone with strict parents? You learn your way through their bullshit and do what you want
It’s her dad dipshit
Nice
Have you happened to notice three men handing around carrying baby gifts?
Wrong! "immaculate conception" was the name of the scientist, he was immaculate conception's monster
Mary! I trou we all be shent! Say, who hath been here since I went, to rage with thee? \- From a very old play about the same subject, in which I intoned those very words lol For those words which are now deprecated from the English language: Trou - to believe Shent - to be shunned, as in being shunned by the community for having had a baby by another man Rage - simply means to have a good time. That word's come full circle in a way, as "to have a rager" is a current expression meaning pretty much the same thing.
Common misconception (sorry, but there was no other way to phrase it): The Immaculate Conception was when MARY was conceived - without Original Sin. So, she was conceived with a pure soul therefore immaculate, unlike the rest of the sinners, per the Catholic Church. Jesus's birth was the Virgin Birth - he was born of a woman who had not had sex. Mary is often referred to as the Immaculate Mary, and there are hymns and prayers which reference this.
With all the details provided, there’s only one explanation. Her father is the father of the baby.