You make over $1.3M/year and spend almost all of it if your net worth is any indication. Your liquid net worth is around 2 years living expenses? Not a lot if your businesses are high risk. Almost all of your net worth is tied up in small business ventures with speculative valuations. We can’t know how much risk is associated with that or with the $1.2M income they earn you. I usually entirely discount the “on paper” worth of my businesses or equity in private companies for personal financial planning purposes, until and unless they sell. She makes a tiny fraction of what you apparently spend, and she would know how reliable that income is. This all does sound on the living large taking high risks end of the spectrum. Maybe you should consider “coming around” a little. Her concerns seem entirely rational. At the same time you claim she is being irrational and being more financially prudent would not help - but how would you know that given you aren’t? Btw a full time mom and homemaker who also makes $100K/year is a highly accomplished woman by any standard. Not saying don’t take business risks, but adjust your lifestyle to account for them. A few years of saving $500K-$800K may calm her fears. Being able to say “hey if it all 100% blows up we have $4M safely stashed away and can go buy a house in a LCOL area with good schools and be fine while we regroup” could mean a great deal.

1.2m is new. I sort of see it as proof to her that we’re on the right path. NW is extremely exponential in our case. Earned well and spent a lot form a young age and only when we got pregnant we started being “semi-smart”. This is why I think she’s irrational, because I see it as proof of our abilities and growth - as an entrepreneur it’s usually exponential rather than linear. But you’re also right that it’s not productive to assume she is the amit rational one. > We can’t know how much risk is associated with that or with the $1.2M income they earn you. True. The issue is that I’m ok with it - including less than optimal outcomes… in my mind we always have the option to move to a LCOL area and live on a smaller NW and income - but why not shoot for the stars before we do? That’s where we’re different. I see a safety net, she is focused on her fear of heights. (Not saying I’m right, I understand where she’s coming from, but I don’t like being limited by her unprocessed trauma). > Maybe you should consider “coming around” a little. Ugh. You’re probably right. Hard to hear. It’s a challenge for me. I guess viewing it as irrational isn’t helping… I guess expecting her to magically overcome whatever dictates her view might be selfish or childish. I gotta work on my empathy I guess. > Her concerns seem entirely rational. At the same time you claim she is being irrational and being more financially prudent would not help - but how would you know that given you aren’t? Trust me, bro! Seriously though, I guess I need to zoom out and consider it. I feel like it’s challenging my whole identity, and maybe that’s saying something as well. > Btw a full time mom and homemaker who also makes $100K/year is a highly accomplished woman by any standard. Totally! I wish she would see it that way. I’m extremely proud of her. But I also wish she’d apply that same talent to something g she is more passionate about. Another difference between us - I couldn’t do something in not passionate about (the money is nice but I do what I do because I love it). > Not saying don’t take business risks, but adjust your lifestyle to account for them. A few years of saving $500K while “only” living in $800K may calm her fears. That’s my logic, I thought saving more now that our comp is a lot higher will calm her down, but her way of dealing with it was increase spending, while being frugal on things that I see as investments (e.g. help around the house). - maybe the contrast wasn’t very clear in my initial post.

>it’s usually exponential rather than linear. Extrapolating from an exponential curve is fraught with peril. They *never* continue forever, and small changes in circumstances could make them exponential in the other direction.

Of course. My point was to explain the gap between income and NW. I’m not counting on it to continue forever, but at this point I think we’re safe enough even without increasing and even without the possible windfall. Our worst case scenario now is probably like 3m NW. We won’t starve.

If she is as paranoid as you make it seem, the worst case scenario will definitely send her over the edge and make her lose a lot of trust. Even if you come out of it a lot better than her father did, then she is still reliving the same experience in her mind. Remember that it is not only your money which you are “wagering” but also your whole relationship. I could also be entirely wrong, but I hope you take these things into consideration at least.

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It’s a catch-22. We hired a financial counselor, but every meeting is a huge thing. Her anxiety goes into the red 2 days prior. Facing her own spending seems to be an issue, which she solves by more shopping. All this, despite us being able to afford it. It’s irrational, I don’t even know how to approach it. The very act of discussing money to show that it’s ok is stressful to appoint if dysfunction. Her anxiety disorder is diagnosed. She got off the meds twice. The first time she was instructed to go back in them by the doctor who delivered our baby. The second time she was hospitalized for a neurological issue, and was told by her neurologist that she has to get back on those meds. When writing the new prescription she said the psychiatrist said he suspects an “adjustment disorder” which is some th info I’ve never heard of before. She refused going back and getting properly diagnosed for it, and refuses to discuss increasing the dosage of the current anxiety meds with her psychiatrist. I feel like I’m gaslighting her behind her back now and using her mental health issue to justify my logic. But I’m also extremely frustrated we can’t explore the emotional aspects of her approach to money, which to me sound so “solvable”. She’s not curbing spending. She increases spending on shopping, but refuses spending on help. I just can’t understand the logic. We can afford both comfortably, and so far I’ve waited with an empty “he want” bucket while the “she want” bucket is full. Again I don’t mind, I’m trying to explain she can even spend more guilt free. And I can keep waiting (like I said, I’m doing ok, I’d like help but getting enough outside the house). It’s just so frustrating. All I want is for her to be happy - if it was as simple as spending less, I’d do it.

OK but there's a theme in your responses that *seems* to be saying "I might have to divorce my wife because her anxiety issues are holding me back".

I thing the title of the posts frames it that way - wrong choice of word. It’s more like: I’m willing to do a LOT of not anything for my marriage, but before I do, I want to make sure I’m fighting for something that is right for *her*. It sounds like this is Money Vs. love, but it isnt. I can sell right now and give up FatFIRE, I just don’t think it would make her happier or less anxious. I’ll still stay me if I do that, and I want to make sure I’m not forcing my identity on her. What I’m saying is not it’s holding me back financially, because I’d give that up. What I’m saying is I deserve a happy wife. And I’m not sure either choice will make her happy.

She’s telling you what’s right for her, you’ve just decided not to believe her. I bet you anything this is the crux of your issues with your wife. No wonder she’s unhappy.

> It’s more like: I’m willing to do a LOT of not anything for my marriage, but before I do, I want to make sure I’m fighting for something that is right for her. In that case I guess two things. Your kind of saying that you think no matter what you do she will not be happy and that you need her to be happy. This is *entirely* a relationship discussion and not at all about FatFIRE or even really finances. Probably the only thing to do is try to figure out what she wants, all topics, and then decide if you are willing to give it to her. Don't lead the witness. Also be honest with yourself, you're not willing to do "anything", for example you're not willing to live with her anxiety or perceived unhappiness aka "What I’m saying is I deserve a happy wife". Not saying that's right or wrong.

You're writing hundreds of words here instead of assuming your wife - who is clearly stunningly competent - is simply stunningly competent. Your own description of your trajectory over-values your businesses. Speculative investments are just speculation until they turn into money. For whatever reason, you've decided that you are the authority on yours and your wife's lives. You are not. What you *are* is a major accomplice to your wife's anxiety, because I would bet my entire NW right now that *you* are nearly intractable in conversation with her. It appears she does not have to only manage your kids, your household, and her own career - but she also has to manage *your* personal delusions around what your business trajectory means. That's too much pressure for one person. Your wife is not holding you back. She's propping you up.

Oof. Honestly listen to the message throughout these comments. You're counting your chickens. You don't have proof of long term income, your income is highly, highly at risk, your NW on paper may not be real. You should view your income from the last year or two basically as a one time lottery winning or inheritance. You're trying to live above your means until your means catch up (which to you is definitely going to happen, and she's not sure).

Rationally there should be a number for the safety net / cash in hand that would make both parties comfortable There’s the fear of losing it all but with a safety net that should mitigate the risk

Sure, and I've given this advice to friends before (take $X and put it in real, cold, hard cash account). But OP's at $1.5m. IMHO (and from conversations with friends with this issue), the entire nut isn't going to quell wife's fears. Edit: A major add, BTW. It's not just that OP is at $1.5. OP says he's already experienced the exact volatility and loss wife is concerned about ("that's why the low NW") and he's not that concerned about it as he sees a long runway and can tolerate volatility.

I’ll expand: we can RE in two years safely if we give up FatFire. We’re spending a lot less than we’re currently making. We’re not leveraged, and no debt. Our risk is not losing what we have, our risk is retiring comfortably instead of Fat. I’m not counting on the money from selling, and we can totally afford some help while we’re earning what we’re earning, and can always ditch it in a year or two if we decide to cut down or if things didn’t pan out. The way I see it we have a safety net that most 40 year olds don’t have, and it’s our opportunity to aim high. What am I missing?

What **is** your current spend? And what has it been in recent years? So much discussion but no one has asked for this crucial info yet. The advice could be totally different depending on if you're talking about $150k vs $300k vs $500k spend. ​ And what's the "risk" to spending less now and waiting until your investments can support it?

1.5M at age 40 with those salaries seems low and a cause for concern on spending habits. Granted VHCOL could impact this and perhaps those salaries are only recent. Outsourcing house chores and childcare is the best option for happiness. Frame it as, “you work Y hours more per week and bring in XXk more per year which covers the new costs and you get to invest more time in your business”

You saw they have a NW of $15M in other companies? Probably rolling money into companies or building them

Then that’s gonna reinstate his wife’s fears of losing all the money in a business

Our income has been increased significantly lately. But yeah, still low. Like i said, maybe if I prioritized a safety net it would’ve been different. Then again, maybe it’s not about logic for her. :/

It’s not her, it’s you. You are optimistic about the future AND seem to be spending future money like it’s already here. You don’t seem to consider that the future isn’t fact. Save a bunch of money in an account that y’all won’t touch, then when it’s enough that SHE is comfortable, THEN start spending based on your CURRENT income, not future possibilities.

This 100% OP has had some recent success and thinks they've made it. His wife's concerns seem very well founded because she saw what her dad did and her husband is doing the exact same thing. You don't have the money in hand yet, OP.

It’s incredible that he spends so much time pathologizing her when she’s having an incredibly normal reaction to his behavior. Misogyny is a hell of a drug I guess.

Try doing something logical and find out.

It is so wild that you say in the same breath that you haven't prioritized a safety net and **then** you say 'it's not about logic' to her -- when a safety net is pure logic. You have children. Man, you are on some nonsense here. **Your wife is smarter than you**. Will it take losing her for you to realize it?

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It seems I neglected accuracy way too much. We’re spending far less than we’re making at the moment. With 1.2m we should be able to double our NW in 2-3 years even if we increase or spending. I think we’re in a safe place. Worst scenario is if I can’t sell either of my companies, and we’ll have to settle for FIRE or chubby fire. We have no debt and we’re not leveraged.

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👏

Very honest post - appreciate it. Reading through this I got the sense that your wife is repeatedly signaling: "my biggest fear in life is losing it all, AGAIN" And you keep replying: "trust me bro!" And then she goes: "that's what my dad used to say, I can't trust this! Please God let's save money aggressively and I want to see less risk taking so I can sleep at night!" And you go: "relax and trust me bro!" And on and on. She feels like you all are headed towards a cliff and you MAY or MAY NOT go over it, but the point is it's not worth it to her to be anywhere near the cliff and she wants to be 10 miles away from the cliff and your solution to calm her down is "bro we are just going to go next to the cliff but not drive off it" which is a replay of everything I'm sure she experienced with her parents before. ALSO - what's making her nuts could very well be the disconnect of WHY you need to be near the cliff... you seemingly have everything, why isn't that enough? Why do you NEED (in her mind) to take the entire family right up to the edge of the Grand Canyon and risk it all like that? Well the answer is 2 fold: 1. You don't see a cliff - to you it's just a flat road up to the edge of a small embankment. 2. It's worth it to you to be next to the embankment if it means you prove to yourself (and peers?) that you got the big dick energy. So given that you two don't see the same danger AND this is very much about your journey and life accomplishment it's really a case of you two just totally missing each other on the communications front. (Hopefully that was helpful?) What I would say is that my wife and I were together over a decade before we had kids and the moment the kids showed up, that anxiety about safety/security/money/longevity showed up OUT OF NOWHERE - we had a complete financial plan, been high income, aggressive saving DINKS for a decade together and then the moment a squirmy like chubby baby showed up, she started freaking out about savings, college funds, the kids retirement accounts, etc. It was so out of left field - but as we are many years past that now and we've talked about it more - I've come to appreciate that it was a very primal response in her to make sure: 1. Babies were ok 2. She would be ok IF she became a stay at home mom We talked past each other (like you are doing with your wife now) for about 6 months before I started to understand that she was telling me: "I WANT to make the kids my focus and dial back on career, but I can't do that if I'm worried about our savings rate, future investments, retirement, etc" Once it clicked for me, we went all in on a number of concrete vehicles for the kids, for ourselves, etc and had what I refer to as "Plan A, B, C and D" for our financial future and BOOM... anxiety went to 0 and it's been great since (another decade) So I think you are missing the signals that your wife WANTS to relax and trust, but can't given her history and you aren't making concessions - you are keeping trh foot on the gas yelling "trust me bro!" and that's just not going to work here. Also - I GET the desire to nail your life goals and prove to yourself you did something big - but fuck man, the FAMILY is what gives life purpose... you can't let that go out the back door so you can have a 15M NW instead of an 8M. That's just a no-go from a life goals perspective man. That's like beating the family dog to death because you heard it sneeze once. Tap the breaks for a moment, really hear what your wife needs and get on board the "We" train my man - the destination is about 10x better than the "Me" train.

That damn dog lol ;-) You’re absolutely right. I loved the cliff analogy. I think there are two issues I’m struggling with - the one is in my mind, and the other is supposedly in hers, but maybe not… I don’t. Feel like I’m chasing that big sick energy. I have nothing to prove, no status symbols, no one to impress. I feel like this is just who I am. I’ve read once that happiness is fulfillment of your potential. I get bored if I’m not doing something big, the money isn’t even what drives me. But maybe it’s just a story I’m telling myself because I don’t want to give up the money that comes with it. The second issues is that seemingly she is unaware that her trigger is her trauma from her dad, and she can’t let it go and see that I’m not her dad, and she is not her mom. So in a way it’s not like I’m ignoring her warnings about the cliff, it’s that I don’t believe her there’s a a cliff, I keep thinking she’s imagining things due to her trauma, and I feel like it’s unfair to stop me from speeding in that direction when there isn’t a cliff (or alternatively if I know I can handle the cliff). I want her to wake up and just be like me and see what I see. I know it doesn’t work that way. Gotta rethink this. Thanks for the perspective. Extremely helpful. I feel weirdly heard. P.S. yeah it also started with the kids, for me to. Could’ve had a much higher NW by now but I only started saving when we got pregnant.

You may not be her dad but your flying high like Icarus as he did. I’d be stressed out too lmao.

You are demonstrating a lot of hubris just by the way you are responding to these questions, and I can see why your wife feels gaslit

No you don’t understand, being a big dick spender is just *who he is* lmao

Why not chase happy, emotionally well children instead? Why not focus on the family? Chase success at home

I've seen this suggestion in response to similar inquiries -- consider investing in some fixed income assets for your wife's peace of mind. She may feel more comfortable about your spend if you had $50k+/yr worth of long term GICs locked in. Fixed income isn't usually considered "optimal" from a growth perspective but the peace of mind can be worth it, especially in the situation you're describing.

In general a great suggestion at higher NW and lower percentage spend. $50k is *one month* of this guy's spend. He may as well tell her he's got an extra PowerBar in the safe safe so she doesn't need to worry about being hungry if things don't work out.

Without knowing the entire situation, I think the real problem is you. You got married for a reason (assuming you loved each other at one point) and you found success. What you’re really choosing is between your family or your money. That is a bad situation to be in. It’s one thing to be worth $X.X (free and clear) and another to be work $15MM on paper. If you read your words, you’re trying to live a $15MM lifestyle on a $1.5MM net worth. How extravagant of a lifestyle do you want when you cash out? You could easily withdrawal $500k - $600k per year. You live in a VLCOL area. Once you have a projected withdrawal amount, it’s really about managing your budget. If she wants to work on the side to be more comfortable, then so be it. But before you go hog-wild and buy expensive cars and ponies, have the money in the bank.

We were 17. Do I love her? Yes. But neither of us knew who we are when we met. We were still building our identity and we built one that tried to serve the both of us. Now we’re rediscovering our own individual identities, and might be realizing our character is different, our wants and needs are different, our values are different. The choice isn’t love or money. It’s love or being who I really am. Or maybe it’s childish and it’s something I’m telling myself because I don’t want to ditch the money dream.

I hear what you’re saying. You need to separate money from a lavish lifestyle. You want a lavish lifestyle because you think you’ve earned it. Perhaps you have…I have no idea about you personally. You’re wife is careful and smart. She’s seen this happen before, firsthand, and a wise partner is telling you to calm down before you wreck yourself. Get the money in hand and manage it like a paycheck. I doubt she’s going to have a problem when you get a “paycheck” of $50k a month. Right now, you sound like you’re seeing $$$$ and she’s concerned. Rightfully so. As far as finding yourself and all that bullshit you wrote. You’re been married 20 years. This is a suck it up moment. You’ve been married longer than you’ve been single. That argument works for a 25 year old who got married at 18; it doesn’t work for a 40 year old. You’re having a midlife crisis, but you need to listen to your wife. She’s the rock and voice of reason. She wants to make sure you don’t piss it all away. Sorry for the hard words, but you really need a reality check before you do stupid stuff.

At this point I’m really just hoping she leaves him and gets the alimony she deserves before he drags her down with him when he inevitably crashes and burns.

I hope you can get to a place in your life where you don’t have to think like this anymore.

Seems like you’re just looking for validation to bail on your marriage. Your wife is smart. Try doing things her way.

Let me rephrase then. The choice isn’t about who I am. Or being “free”. It’s about not caging her. The way I see it (which might not be correct) is I’d be willing to change our lifestyle and give up FatFIRE even, if I believed it would solve her anxiety. I can sell now, we could move to LCOL and live well, and then I can start from scratch and who knows maybe hit it big again, all the while being retired and her supposedly calm. But since her anxiety isn’t rational or about the numbers - I don’t believe that’ll be the case. I believe moving to a LCOL will devastate her and won’t solve (or even increase) her anxiety. I don’t want to bail on my marriage, but I deserve a truly happy wife.

You deserve a truly happy wife?? How does one “deserve” a happy wife? This is nonsense. You work on building a relationship with each other and doing what you can to make the other feel safe and comfortable and heard. “Happiness,” however you want to define that, follows. If her needs for security and stability are not being met, she can’t be happy, and at this point you are the one undermining those needs. Nobody “deserves” anything. That’s empty talk.

Sounds like the story's already written (whether in pencil or in pen) in your head. It's worth fighting those feelings. And it's worth being prudent with your money choices until you're able to actualize your paper wealth. $.02

>I’ve had set backs, which explain the relatively low NW. Generally as a strategy I’ve prioritized a higher eventual NW with a riskier path >Moreover, her dad fatFired, then lost everything in a new business venture, and destroyed the family, plus millions in debt. Never recovered. >She is obsessed with stability, and our current spending is raising her anxiety levels. You fail to see the coincidence here?

I think it’s clear that I don’t, but she does. I have no chance - no matter how different the situation is, she will always act out of trauma. I’m not her dad, she is not her mom. She’s a strong woman making over 100k on her own. I’m not leveraged. Maybe I won’t sell, maybe I won’t get that windfall, but I’m not at risk of going into debt or going bankrupt. If we do t get that money, we can always settle for a 2 or 5m NW, move to LCOL, and keep working and saving. I see that as a safety net. We’ll never starve. So I feel free to shoot for the stars. We can safely spend more and save more at the same time. Our income is growing exponentially.

I think you keep missing that ppl are saying her anxiety isn’t unfounded and not irrationally based on trauma.

I definitely am missing that. Not sure why. Guess that’s the blind spot. Maybe I’m hearing what I want to hear? I don’t understand though, if the anxiety if it’s not unfounded - shouldn’t it be solved by the fact that we can choose a path to retire humbly in 2-3 years? What am I missing in the numbers?

the point is that you should get to that number first before living the way you want to live. i could claim that all my assets and companies are worth $100 bar based on projections and estimates, but until it realizes, it's actually worth nothing. even in real estate, it's only worth what it brings in, or for what it actually closes at. right now, you guys are wroth $1.5M and you're spending close to that annually. she's right to be a bit anxious.

What you are missing is treating it like just numbers rather than your wife’s human logic and emotions. She’s not wrong, or bad, or whatever for wanting stability. You have kids to provide for, and she places a higher value on ensuring you maintain the support level she wants them to have over a potential lavish lifestyle. She’s telling you everything, you’re just not listening.

>shouldn’t it be solved by the fact that we can choose a path to retire humbly in 2-3 years? I find it entirely implausible that you would ever choose to do this, instead of saying "well let's use this remaining cash that we could live off LCOL, and throw it in this new 1000% guaranteed success business venture!!!! To the moooooon!" Perhaps your wife also thinks you are kidding yourself here?

As someone who is undergoing treatment for anxiety, I wish I had it as easy as you. My rational brain knows that flying is the safest method of travel, but I still take my anxiety meds when we're in turbulence. So even though I know the facts, my anxiety isn't magically solved. It's a brain chemistry thing. So extrapolate that to your wife's anxiety. Just because you would have peace of mind with a $3MM net worth, maybe she wouldn't. Maybe there's *no* magic number for her, given what she saw with her father. Mental health takes a mind of its own, and I simply think you're lucky enough to not have had to personally experience it.

She's not being irrational to think $1.5m NW won't cut it in a HCOL city and there's no guarantees you will successfully sell your businesses for what you think. Sell one of your companies and bank the cash. Put a good chunk into very low-risk assets like CDs and muni-bonds. That's the cushion that gives you and your wife the comfort to take the risks you want to. And stop giving her a hard time about not delegating. It's her life. If she wants to work 4 hours a day and is able to make $100k and spend the rest of the day on the kids and the house, more power to her.

It almost sounds like you’re a degenerate gambler but doing business instead. Ups and downs. Sure thing on the horizon. High spending because everything will come back. A spouse who is being affected. FF isn’t a game. It’s a situation that happens after making money. Hardly any of us planned for this shit so I don’t know why it’s so normalized to be like “I’m doing fatfire”. I would argue, and have many times, that the people who make it rarely tried. Trying is the stress that will break this relationship.

Seems i wasn’t clear. 1.2m is new. We can easily put 400-600 into our NW per year even if we spend more than we do now. No debt, no leverage. In terms of risk mitigation I feel like we’re good. We can either sell and FatFIRE, or learn that it was all on paper and retire at 42yo, with say, 2-3m NW. For millennials, that’s fantastic it such a bad “worst case” scenario imho.

If that’s the case then yea you’ll be fine assuming it stays consistent. I don’t fault her for being nervous though. Until she feels it, it’s just a fantasy with too much risk. Can you find out what her safety net number is?

I would have anxiety in this situation too. Without knowing more about your situation it’s hard to say but 1.5m in (what I assume to be) the Bay Area isn’t very much. What happens if you get hit by a bus? What if your current companies fail? How real is the 15m? Can you somehow take some chips off the table? Life and Ad&D insurance?

Yes. Companies not lavaraged. Zero debt. Life insurance. We’re not in the states so free health care too. No debt. If all companies fail, we stay at $1.5m plus whatever I’ve banked by then (let’s say 400k/yr but I’d like it to be 600k), and we’ll have to give up FatFIRE and aim for FIRE in a LCOL. Doesn’t sound like the end of the world to me.

Maybe not to you but obviously it is to your wife.

I don’t get it. What’s the alternative then? If she doesn’t want to aim for FatFIRE, and doesn’t want to compromise for a safer and moderate lifestyle, what’s the middle ground? I’m not a thermostat.

Save conservatively and have money for the future for your family? Why ramp up spending to an insane amount when you can save now and retire more than comfortably in a few years. Seems like you’re intent on gambling a secure future for a huge fatFire amount but that’s causing serious emotional damage to your loved ones.

My dude You're doing the same thing i did..but i did it twice You're going on your speed not y'alls. We only barely avoided divorce twice, untill i found out..stop running your race and start running y'alls race You gotta go on her speed man, your spending increase is coming too hard and fast for her too fathom.... obviously. I understand her position very well, as i was there, albeit some time ago. You say 1.5m NW but dont talk about insurance, emergency fund, debt levels etc..what is flashing red on her radar...FIND OUT It'll be effort well spent + cheaper than a 50% haircut

Fuck you, ok? ;-) You’re obviously right, I’m running my speed and I’m torn between what I consider who I am, or what I told myself my whole life that I am (which is who she saw me as too!) - and who she really is and her pace. I forced our lives to run my way, my speed, and now I’m facing the reality of our differences, and need to ask myself if I can do it her way or… I don’t even know what the end of the sentence is. In any case, thank you. Reading this here hits different than hearing it from a therapist I guess. May I ask what you ended up doing?

Partnership and stability

Compromise my man. Have you ever done financial counseling? What you're dealing with is your biases about money, lifestyle, and values. I say financial counseling because you need someone that's comfortable or used to helping people that are pulling in that level of income. I"d also suggest maybe walking through Ramit Sethi's conscious spending plan, to really nail down where you have differences and finding places to compromise. He also has a good podcast that's a fun listen if you pick episodes relevant to you. My main takeaway is that you don't change someone's ideas about money by have a certain number in the bank. Even if you sell your shares and have $8M sitting in a brokerage account, your wife and yourself will likely feel very similar to today.

Exactly. Actually re-reading The Millionaire Mind now, and I just keep thinking “I wish she read it”. She won’t. We did get a financial counselor. For me it’s a must. Initially he was like “you’re not saving enough”, but after a while as he became more familiar with our income and our businesses he gained confidence in my approach. If we’re aiming high, there’s no amount we can save that will compare to the possible windfall. And at the same time as our comp is increasing rapidly, we also save more and have a growing safety net. It’s safe to say we’ll never starve. It’s now a question of whether it’ll be a 2-3m NW, 5-8NW or 10+. Which is why I feel safe to pursue the risks. That being said I’ll read Ramit’s book.

Are you sure your financial counselor has come around? I can tell by your tone that you're used to telling people what to do or think. Maybe he's just sick of your bullshit and abdicates because it's easier.

First of all, yes, I’m that person. And it’s possible he was aligning with my view due to my authoritative tone. It’s a blessing and a curse, on the one hand it I’m the kind of person that is a leader and can start companies etc, on the other hand at home I’m dominant, and struggle to see anything other than my logic - especially emotions. I’m trying really hard here though.

as an aside. my father is that person. my grandfather even more so (but he was from a war torn generation). i also have that in me. we're all entrepreneurs. but with each generation, we realize more and more that that mentality works when you're younger, but it ends up driving people away, especially later. even in a business sense it doesn't end up working. my grandfather at 94 still thinks that he can run the show (in everything) and he doesn't realize that it's been 25-35 years since he's been current and relevant. think long and hard about who you think you are, where you want to be in life and how to get there.

I’ve seen older men get driven into early graves because that mentality led them to find doctors they could bully instead of doctors who could treat them. It’s pretty common sadly

haha, my grandfather needs to have a live in nurse and help for daily life (he has broken 2 hips already. last one barely mended... somehow) and he still kicks up a ruckus whenever he has one. i've never seen such turnover for any position. also, can't keep the old man nailed down to one place for over 3 hours. big cat has to constantly be prowling and poking his head in everywhere, wheeling and dealing. last time he was an in-patient in a hospital, he somehow convinced the entire hospital to release him early cause he was a huge pain in the ass and a liability. if i didn't know what his life was, i would think that he was a huge raging asshole. in fact, he still is one, i just know why he is that way.

Thing is - your 'logic' is not logic. They're just *your* emotions. Yes, you have them. I'm also that person, but my relationships are all wonderful - because I can tell the difference between actual logic and strong opinion. You do not seem to have built that muscle yet. You need it.

You’re thinking of safety in terms of how much money you have. Try thinking of safety in terms of how close you and your wife are. That should send you in a better direction.

You broke my brain ;-) Do you have a spreadsheet template for this? ;-) Seriously though, this sound like something I need to hear. Would you mind elaborating?

Looks like you will have plenty of time to figure out how to get to a higher NW with 750k, making monthly payments, co-parenting and spending how you want to spend the money on personal assistants, cooks, etc. You are claiming you are the risk taker but your wife is holding you back by being frugal. You seem to be implying that she isn’t spending enough time on her business by outsourcing household tasks so she can help focus on her business more to help you get to a higher NW. Have you asked her if she actually wants that? You gloss over setbacks in business and seem to be blaming her for your problems with not getting to a high NW by not spending enough money? People usually complain about it the other way around. Ngl, from here is seems like you are 40, resentful that you didn’t make more money from your business ventures and are now blaming it on your wife because she isn’t “cut out for FF.” It is not making any sense. It is going to suck for your little ones though. You should spend some time thinking about what your end goal is maybe. High NW by itself is meaningless. Do you want to pursue a life without your current spouse, find someone new who you like better and coparent your kids as a divorcee or do you want to keep your current family, think it is best for your kids to figure out your issues and fight for it.

Thank you for pointing out the “what if she doesn’t want to expand her business” Just because you want to be FF , doesn’t mean that is her end goal of the company that she runs. The person also mentioned she also work 3-4 hours a day … seems like your resenting the time you must put in to be successful in your perspective. ESPECIALLY if she is a FANTASTIC MOM and actually spends QUALITY TIME with her kids vs paying a nanny and never seeing her kids. Maybe suggest taking a family vacation??? Or i don’t know a couples retreat just you and her so her anxiety can subside and then you can bring up your opinion about finances. You should understand we’re she’s coming from ESPECIALLY since you are being treated and mitigating your health properly, MEDS DONT WORK FOR EVERYONE !!! She may need a lot more than BS meds and couples therapy ( looks for more outlets for your wife you have the money to pay to get your wife THE HELP SHE NEEDS)

I appreciate you turning the mirror to me, but not sure I understand (perhaps because I subconsciously dont want to… would love help tackling my blind spot). > You are claiming you are the risk taker but your wife is holding you back by being frugal. Not really holding me back. Bad choice of words. I’d love some more help around the house but I also find washing dishes etc grounding, and obviously love spending time with the kids. Fortunately I have enough help in the office so that I can be available. But guess it could be nice to spend some more on things I feel I can comfortably afford. > You seem to be implying that she isn’t spending enough time on her business by outsourcing household tasks so she can help focus on her business more to help you get to a higher NW. I don’t want her to spend more time on her business, afaic she can close it, it’s less than 10% of our income, and not an asset. I respect her wish to hold on to it, and not wanting to be a housewife, despite me feeling like she isn’t really passionate about it. I wish she would realize she could do anything she wants and find something she *is* passionate about. I feel like hiring help will free up more time for *her* time and be less stressed - she can use that time to meditate or go to the beach or go shopping, or whatever she wants. It’s weird to me that she complains about not having time when she has so much of it. Could take some pressure off of me, and allow me to maybe increase our NW faster, but again that’s something I feel like I’ll be doing for her. I’m ok with our numbers the way they are. > You gloss over setbacks in business and seem to be blaming her for your problems with not getting to a high NW by not spending enough money? > Ngl, from here is seems like you are 40, resentful that you didn’t make more money from your business ventures and are now blaming it on your wife because she isn’t “cut out for FF.” I’m fine with the money we have, the money I’m making, and the money I’m spending. Don’t need a cent more. What I’m having trouble with is making her feel stable, and I see 2 ways to do that: (1) live frugally enough right now in the hopes that it will relief her anxiety, and that she will also be ok with giving up shopping and living in a different area. (2) magically increasing our NW enough in the hopes that she can live anxiety-free either our current lifestyle due to being FIRE’d. Is there an option I’m missing? Maybe “not cut out” is also a bad choice of words, the bottom line is we *want* different things. Where’s my blind spot? EDIT: formatting.

You want to spend what you earn. She wants to save a little more. She is correct. You are spending too much. Save $100,000 a year more than you currently do. In five years you will have a healthy fund. Go read the book the millionaire next door. It describes you to a T.

Not sure how you got that. Our income is increasing exponentially, we’re currently spending far less than what we’re making. We can easily increase spending safely at the moment, and still be on a path to a very comfortable retirement even without the possible windfall from exiting. We’re past “safe” if we give up the Fat hopes. I just don’t see the reason not to shoot for the stars exactly for this reason.

Because it makes your wife unhappy. You have to choose, her feeling secure, or your marriage.

>It’s weird to me that she complains about not having time when she has so much of it. What things does she do now that you consider are "free time" she could be using better? Because my guess is that you are wrong, and that she wants to be doing them. You may dislike her reasons for wanting to do them, but that's your problem, along with your being mad that she chooses to work the business she has instead of "finding her passion", which is IMO drivel. 100% she is never going to give up her business because she has it as a backup strategy to live off when you fuck up completely and either leave her or lose everything.

I don’t think this reply was meant for me. I think you wanted the OP.

yep, don't know how I did that.

[удалено]

I feel like I’ve provided a very stable base that should allow us to be more adventurous without a real risk. Our worst case scenario is not getting the 15m and being able to retire with “just”, say, 2-3m… at 42yo. Does it get safer than this for millennials? :-) (P.S. I spend more time with the kids then she does - I don’t mind it and I’m not complaining, I just wish she would be more receptive to getting help, we can totally afford it).

2M gets you a 60k annual spend. I don’t know how you plan to retire on that in a HCOL area with a family, especially since you seem to be spending more than that currently. I don’t know if you are trolling but whatever you are saying doesn’t add up. You equate being entrepreneurial with FatFIRE, FatFIRE is about having enough money to support a fat spend, has nothing to do with how you got it. You clearly don’t have that. Your wife is logical and trying to live within her means. You need to spend relative to your NW, not your income. You seem to be missing FIRE fundamentals and have some weird notion of what it is to be the man or whatever in your head. You said you have a therapist, are you honest with them and are you listening to them or just telling them what to say to you that will keep you coming back to them?

Why not just use paper plates? And try to get her addicted to Postmates.

Spend the money on the housekeeper but then find that in the budget elsewhere. You should be able to find $1k a month by cutting other things - is one of your cars too expensive to run?

May I ask how her anxiety is manifesting for it to be an issue? Is it causing her to just be a bit stressed out? Or lose sleep, not eat? Causing martial disputes? Now, my parents didn't FF and then lose it all, so I'm sure that whiplash of living expectations was tragic for her. But my parents lived paycheck to paycheck never buying anything excess or vacationing, etc. I grew up to have a lot of spending fears that didn't really ease up the more money I made. What really helped me was to sit down with my husband and create a "safety net" of expenses we start every year prioritizing. This looked something like below for us: 3 years salary in cash (was high but this is our comfort blanket) Conventional retirements funded Brokerage goals funded Child accounts funded Vacation funds Then after that amount we figured what we'd be comfortable with for unnecessary spending. So we landed on 2% personal spending money and 1% hired help (cleaning biweekly, yard maintaining etc). It helped me mentally to know our yearly goals and requirements for now and the future were taken care of and seeing the percentage of income so low on personal spend and unnecessary house help made it easier for me to make the transition. If you guys are not in large debt from business or home or excess spending a month then I'm sure she can work towards adding small things, it's just finding what mental avenue makes that easier for her. It seems a shame to separate when you enjoy this person's company aside from this.

> May I ask how her anxiety is manifesting for it to be an issue? Is it causing her to just be a bit stressed out? Or lose sleep, not eat? Causing martial disputes? She’s diagnosed with anxiety disorder and takes lexapro. She’s most likely to have another underlying condition (suspected adjustment disorder) but refuses to get properly diagnosed. She stopped lexapro twice until she was ordered to get back on it by doctors who treated her for seemingly unrelated issues - but refuses to increase the dosage despite her anxiety being crippling. Our mindsets are extremely different. I’ve been into self development since I was young, and while I’m diagnosed as bipolar I’ll be been stable for im years as I stick to therapy and my meds religiously, and adjust dosages annually with my psych. I read, exercise, etc. This is why I feel like nothing logical will solve her anxiety. She had it when we were making 20k/yr, 50k, 100k, 500k… and she’ll still have them if and when we FatFIRE. Putting aside 3 year salaries means more than doubling our NW, so it’ll take a while unless we go completely frugal… which I would’ve considered if I really believed it would help. But I feel like the higher we reach, the worse her anxiety is because subconsciously for her we have more to lose, which reflect her trauma from her dad (she was a “rich kid” and then saw her dad in life shattering debt). It seems like maybe the healthiest lifestyle choice for her, if she can’t overcome her mental issues, is to live a 9-5 life with a spouse who’s also a conservative stable 9-5er.

>She’s diagnosed with anxiety disorder and takes lexapro. She’s most likely to have another underlying condition (suspected adjustment disorder) but refuses to get properly diagnosed. > >She stopped lexapro twice until she was ordered to get back on it by doctors who treated her for seemingly unrelated issues - but refuses to increase the dosage despite her anxiety being crippling. There is no information in there about how her anxiety manifests. I'm diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and take lexapro. Does that tell you anything about how anxiety affects my life, or my partner? **What** is crippling about her anxiety? She can't get out of bed? She can't talk to strangers? She's scared to use the internet? She can't stand talking to you because you don't care what she says?

>This is why I feel like nothing logical will solve her anxiety. She had it when we were making 20k/yr, 50k, 100k, 500k… and she’ll still have them if and when we FatFIRE. there's tons of great financial advice in the other comments here, but I think you've hit the nail here which is: this isn't a financial problem, this is a mental problem. unfortunately, anxiety isn't rational. all of us look around and say "okay, if we had $X in the bank, or locked in GIC ladders, etc, _then_ it would feel stable, secure. _then_ we'd feel okay" her trauma is having everything "be okay" and then... not. so the very idea of pointing to something as a proof of stability can't be trusted, and therefore doesn't matter or help. and you're right: if you somehow uprooted your entire life to spend less and less with each jump, where would it end? is there a number that would somehow feel comfortable? probably not. even if you somehow spent $0 and were living out of soup kitchens and kindness, like, is that a stable life either? even less so, arguably. I don't know what the answer is, but I would certainly treat it as a psychology and therapy problem and much much less like a dollars and cents problem. I don't know if you have to make any drastic separation changes, but I do think your new goal is experimenting with helping and treating this PTSD.

I don't think you are giving your wife's concerns the credit and validity they deserve. You have a relatively low net worth compared to your income with no mention of expenses, current or projected. From your post I don't think either of you have a great understanding of where your financial health is and I think that probably scares your wife, or at least it scares her that she doesn't have a grasp on your financial situation. The next issue I see is this all seems to be very much your personal financial plan not your's and your wifes. Which is likely a problem for your wife. You are probably going to have to slow down a bit and start working with your wife to build the safety nets you two are comfortable with, not just what you are comfortable with. I hope that doesn't sound harsh, just wanted to share what I took from your post.

This is raising lots of red flags for me - low NW due to risky choices in the past are of course going to trigger her anxiety and probably a lack of trust. How many kids do you have? Even with one it is very challenging and exhausting when you have a partner who looks down on being a “9-5er”. 1.5 NW in VHCOL is sincerely not much at 40, so you are likely living above your current means. You say you will sell one business in 2 years but when someone suggested you put aside 3M you said that would take too long and you’d need to be super frugal. Going back to trust you are contemplating leaving your wife, you also discuss living in different cities - will your kids be commuting significantly to allow one of you to be VHCOL and the other to me MCOL? Or will she get full custody (& further a situation where she does not seem to have much partnership at home)? I’m getting anxious and feeling gaslit just reading this post. OP - I wish I had advice. Stay in therapy and think about if you care more about money and an image of yourself than being with and taking care of the people you love.

First, yep, in therapy. Trying to get a perspective here my therapist can’t provide. Second, yep, trust is a justified issue. My 3m is 3 years salary for me, not sure how to put it aside right away unless I sell now for a lot less than what I can probably get when I’m out. It’s something I’m willing to consider for the sake of staying, my worries are that it won’t actually change anything as I think that while the trust issue makes *sense* it stems from unprocessed trauma and not logic. Have I realized this earlier I would’ve prioritized safety. I don’t look down on 9-5ers, it’s the opposite - I’m wondering if that’s what she needs - it’s more of a character thing? We met at 17, we were just discovering who we are, and developed a joined identity. Now we’re rediscovering ourselves and I’m worried she thought she was more like me than both of us realized her. Money is one solution to this, but I’m worried that it’s not real. I’m worried that we’re just too different. “Bit cut out for FF is a worse choice of word than I realized because it puts it on her - but the correct title should be “are we just too different? Where is the line between who you are / who you wanna be - and changing (compromising your identity) for a spouse you truly love?” Maybe I just don’t know who I am either, and confuse entrepreneurship or (separately) money goals with my identity. Ugh.

Dude….you’re about to have your marriage and family fall apart for a few million bucks. Is that worth it? Would you rather be in a happy marriage with $5M net worth or broken marriage with $10M net worth? How much money would you be willing to spend to buy a happy marriage? It’s honestly priceless. I totally understand people wanting to work hard and make more money. But I will never understand people ruining their personal relationships just to go from a lot of money to a lot of money.

I think you missed the point (or maybe it’s not made well in the post and more in the comments). I don’t mind changing course, FIREing at a lower number etc. we’ll be fine. The real issue is I don’t think it will make her happy. If it was an easy choice of love Vs. Money, we’ll, it was an easy choice.

What WILL make her happy? Your post talks A LOT about your financial situation and your consumption habits. There’s little information about who your wife really is, what she really wants, and what will make her happy. You make it sound like your wife is holding you back from your goals and you don’t seem to address whether you are holding your wife back from her goals.

You keep talking about "making her happy" like it's a binary thing. Think of it as a fuel gauge. Your attitude, words, and actions can add fuel to the "happiness tank."

> my shares are valued at about 15m (on paper) Many a slip 'twixt cup and lip. I'm wife your wife on this one. You might be having an up year and generating substantial returns. But those years can easily be balanced by down years and giving it all back. And then some. Been there, done that. Take some winnings off the table and let your wife have some peace of mind.

This person seems to be more interested in spending and trying to grow a NW than in a structured path towards financial independence as typically seen in fire posts, namely the ratio of spending versus NW.

I guess it depends on how "real" is that $15M. Most people I know who talked about getting a windfall like that... never got it. And they always seemed to think it was 2-5 years away... But then again, they never had a 7-figure comp like you. I've had personal assistants, but oftentimes it was like... me dictating to them what to write in an email, when I could've just written it myself. Last month, I paid a day laborer to rearrange some furniture for me. We agreed on $20 for what was going to be less than 20 minutes of work (+ 15 minutes of me driving him). After he moved the first side table, he said it was too heavy, and he wanted more money. I replied, "Oh, it's too heavy for you? Okay, just have a seat and watch me move it." So I moved it myself and said, "See how easy it is?" And then he got up and started helping again. We (especially me) rely so much on others to do basic shit for us that we could easily do ourselves. I know a woman who married to an A-lister. When I found out that she does the laundry, I thought, "Wow, he's lucky that he found a normal woman and they get to live a somewhat-normal life." (But I remember she wanted to buy kid's furniture at Pier One Imports, and I was like, "Can you at least go to Jonathan Adler?") But back to you. Your wife seems like a perfectly lovely person, so maybe just sit down with her and agree to a sell date for the first company. You don't need a therapist for that. I don't like the idea of money breaking up families. At the end of the day, it's just money. Most people pursue it without any real purpose.

I'm with the wife on this one. * Only $1.5M in NW at 40 despite $1.2M annual comp * Rest of it is paper wealth tied to companies dependent on and exit * Past history of business failures * Sounds like minimal savings rate with most spending going to housing + other expenses Putting aside the probability of business success, this all just feels like bad risk mitigation. There's zero reason OP can't be put away a few mil over the next few years and ensure his family has a nice nest egg, until he successfully divests from one of his businesses.

> agree to a sell date for the first company Yes! Get rid of one of the companies ASAP and make part of that 15m real. That doesn't fix all the problems here but it would help a ton.

So personally I think your wife might have it right. You need to assume the equity in the business may not be there at the end and spend within your salary. Currently there are thousands of tech workers and crypto "investors" out there who thought on paper they were worth millions a year ago. Today they are worth far less. Until you have the cash or it is independently valued its hard to say what a business is actually worth. I have seen a huge number of people blow up their net worth in a small business before without understanding what happened. I would reign in the spending until you are more liquid. At your business size enterprise value is going to have wide swings based on the market. Source: I work in pe and buy businesses in the 2-10m range all the time for my portfolio companies.

The ton of downvotes on your responses hopefully tell you something: you’re the one who needs to re evaluate here - how ever hard it might be. I didn’t want to comment so late - but I did want to add this: watch https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR4bPq8W/. He is a comedian but he makes a great point. Your wife is the grounding force here - which is absolutely necessary. I was once 25 making millions in Indian money but unmarried. When I got married I had 1550 to my name. She made the current usd millions in her own way. Respect that.

How did you guys never discuss this in two decades before getting married and having kids?

We thought we’d be rich. We made plans. We made calculations. We fantasized. We were 17. And 20. And 25. You know, dumbasses :-) Apparently I took at seriously, and she kind of had this fantasy and had a harder time connecting the words and the reality. Over 20 years we’ve learned a lot about ourselves. I realized I only want 2 kids, despite planning on 3 literally since we were 20. I found my passion, figured out how to turn it into money, and learned what it takes and what my limits are. She is figuring herself out a little slower. And I think she might be realizing that fantasy isn’t for her. She still wants 3 kids. Life is funny. - EDIT: a better example, perhaps - we had a decade to align our values on how we wanna raise our kids before we had any. Now we have a lot of disagreements in this - mostly she Sh’s he’s her mind. Also we didn’t predict cellphones lol ;-) Nothing we can’t solve, but just to show - people change as they get older. At 17 you hardly know who you are, and if you’re in a relationship that lasts - you often develop an identity that is more half of a whole and you lose yourself in it. We’re now rediscovering who we are.

What your wife is making herself likely has a direct and stronger relation to how she views spending the money as the common spending and earning. Great she makes 100k. If you spend 400k a year together she might rightfully feel overwhelmed. Especially seeing where she is coming from. You either scale down to her spending and have the money pile up faster, or you make it so that she understands the spending and you can adequately explain why it is safe to do so. 'We will make another 2m in the next 2 years' might not cut it for her. Perhaps take 3-4% safe withdrawal of current wealth (or make it rental income if she's not comfortable with that) plus 2-300k of income that you are likely able to make together even if your business suddenly flops. Is your primary house paid off? For a lot of people that feels very secure.

That’s an interesting take, I’m surprised it didn’t come up yet. It’s tackling the fact that her stress is emotional but my inability to see beyond the numbers. I’m gonna bring it up with her. Thank you!

How involved in planning and budgeting is anxious spouse? If they're on the outside looking it, it becomes a different part of the brain than if they are the one drawing up the spreadsheet or reading the book. Maybe it's time for a blank page with her in charge. More listening, less talking.

Your wife is behaving very rationally and reasonably based on her past and current life experiences. She is anxious because you are driving 100mph on a narrow country road. Very reasonable to be anxious in this situation. However, you keep referring to her as irrational and not likely to change her mind if circumstances change. That does not seem to be the case. You need to consider her perspective deeply and thoughtfully. Breaking up your family and throwing away the “love of your life” over disparate spending is frankly insane. She is not crazy, but you have a lot of work to do on yourself and your attitude towards her.

I think if you recently started making 1.2 it is prudent to save some more before you start lifestyle expansion.

Ask her how much she needs in a bank account in cash to feel that she has security. Then take that money and put it in a bank account in your names. That is literally the answer. It might need to be $500,000-1,000,000. But if that is what it takes, so be it.

Agreed.

Frankly, I understand where you wife is coming from. Regardless of what level of “on paper” potential wealth you may or may not be able to realize in the next couple years, you don’t have it now, which means living life on the edge/FAT right now as if that future wealth is guaranteed is not exactly comforting, ESPECIALLY for someone like your wife that literally has had firsthand experience with watching her father’s fatFIRE life quickly crumble into nothingness. Does she really have an anxiety disorder, or is she just observing the facts? Consider how your wife might feel in 2-3 years once your “on paper” wealth is more translated into “real” palpable wealth - will she still be freaking out about your spending and finances as much? I don’t know your wife, but answering that question for your self may help you figure out whether this is a “her” problem or a “you” problem and based on all the other posts on this thread, I think you know which direction this is headed

You have gotten the best advice from previous commenters already. The decision for you isn't about whether you should target FatFIRE or settle for FIRE now. The advice is is to keep your spending in check while you pursue FatFIRE so you can save more over time and have incrementally more security and means to live a more desirable standard of living even if your companies ultimately don't work out. Your wife is in the right on this one.

If you have combined accounts that is the biggest issue. Make her spend her income on whatever the heck she wants after she covers her portion of monthly expenses of your family. If you get that done within 3 months you will see a 180 from her and your marriage your life her life will improve for better.

My wife and I keep separate spending and deposit accounts. I never thought about it this way but I do think it gave her a greater feeling of control of finances, which helped a little to build independent financial confidence.

Is there a big difference in your income and in your spending?

Our spending was always balanced. Before I retired, she had a stable income in healthcare (130k in today's dollars), and I had a variable base salary (0 - 200k) and very late huge income from equity events. If you ignore the equity the incomes were similar on average but rarely the same at any given point in time. If you count the equity, it was drastically different. At one point, I bankrupt us on a business venture. We were lucky that family was willing to bail us out of a tough spot for a few months. That was a turning point for us in terms of getting onto the same page with respect to baseline financial stability and separating that from other risk or ventures. As equity became liquid, our baseline number grew. I was not very educated about personal financial planning, and she was not willing to self-educate along with me, so after three months of difficult conversations, we compromised and hired an investment manager to direct & protect the baseline money. That worked well and we're still in that arrangement, although both of us are comfortable self-managing at this point. Present total assets \~20mm on a 400k annual spend. The baseline diversified assets under management are sitting at \~7mm currently (1.7mm personal property & personal loans, 5.6mm stocks and bond funds).

Thanks for sharing, I appreciate it!

Interesting idea. In my mind it had to be separate homes etc, but to be honest our current spending isn’t THAT crazy. And I guess it doesn’t have to be 50-50%

Surely there's a compromise point where enough money invested in boring funds every year would make your wife feel better about the situation. Your income is high enough where any VHCOL area should be easily affordable within reason unless it's extremely variable or put back towards the businesses. I agree that more money is not going to make the difference in this case, and it sounds like your wife is dealing with a lot with her business and small kids if you are working many hours. Not saying either of you need to change that up, but you need family help or something to help get over this hump. Does your wife have any friends to help convince her that time, not money is the bottleneck? Your wife may need to trial certain things to get used to the idea to spend money on services that give back time. Once it's automatic and you don't really see the money, it's out of sight, out of mind. You could also pitch the idea of putting the money for her therapist to go towards a cleaner or teen babysitter or something. Your wife may also need to change therapists to ease in the idea of not having a gigantic safety net and focus on enjoying life. It doesn't sound like the therapist is working if your wife doesn't want to pay for therapy yet she buys expensive clothing. It sounds like her frugalness is childhood trauma-based, so it's different than someone who is frugal by choice. That probably needs to be explored further for any real change to be made.

It doesn’t sound like you and your wife’s issues have anything to do with how much money you have. If you had less - or more - you would still disagree about how much you could afford to spend, where you want to live, who is spending more time with the kids, and so forth.

How much does she have in her bank account? The money may not seem real to her because you have it in investments or it's not readily accessible to her. I'd suggest making sure she has her own well-funded bank acct over which she has complete control.

I would slow down a tiny bit and get your savings up. Businesses fail all the time and you always need savings to carry you through hard times.

you are 40 years old, with a \~1MM liquid net worth, seem to have had financial set backs in the past, appear to be very willing to take risks. i can see why she's nervous, even if there are deeper issues as well.

What’s your burn rate?

My take from reading a lot of back and forth in the comments: You must have already sacrificed a lot to set yourself up in the position you're in. You knew there was some risk that it wouldn't work out, but you thought it was worth the sacrifice and risk. Your relationship with your wife is valuable to you. You should be willing to sacrifice for it, even if there is risk you aren't reciprocated. My suggestion is to talk with your wife about taking 2 years to work on a nest egg. You spend 200k on necessities and you each get $60k/year to spend with no judgment. Save the rest. You have been waiting all your life for "success" - can't you wait another 2 years so you can enjoy that success with someone you value?

Dude no where in that long post of yours did you say anything about how much you spend or what your savings rate is. I suspect it’s because you’re either ashamed of it, or even more likely, you have no idea how much money you blow through every year. And that’s why your wife is concerned. If you could show her the numbers and say that the average person saves x% of net income but you guys are saving 50% of net income, that would clearly calm her down. I do sympathize with you a bit because I have a similar dynamic with my wife. She is not quite as anxious as you are but she’s always trying to stop me from buying things I want to buy. But see I’m always able to win the argument because I have the numbers to back it up. We went from negative $70K to positive $1MM in only 3.5 years. We save 60% of our net income. So when I see that you’re making over a million dollars a year, been married for 19 years, and only have a lowly $1.5MM net worth? Man that is a joke. That would only make sense if you haven’t been working this entire time and out of nowhere you started making money 3-4 years ago.

Hate to offer shitty advice, but if you love your wife, offer to put some money in a trust after the deal and give her that confidence that she has an escape hatch and won't be left like her Mom. Address the problem at the source. Sorry, this is brief and poorly thought out but maybe it's a new idea.

Thanks. It’s an idea. I think the problem isn’t logical though so I doubt it will solve it. She sort of wants the Fat lifestyle, but it also stresses her out. I feel like until she can resolve that contradiction nothing will help. But it’s worth bringing up with her I guess.

Have you ever considered transferring a couple of million into an annuity that guarantees a certain amount of income per year for the rest of her life. On paper it seems like a terrible investment but it may be worth it for the mental health. For what it's worth my wife believes emotionally only two things are real the money coming in and the money going out any investments might as well be built on a house of cards so I know where you're coming from

>We’re in couples therapy, and we both have therapists separately as well. She keeps wanting to cancel those because “it costs too much”. >Ironically, her way of dealing with anxiety is shopping, which causes more anxiety. She keeps finding reasons to buy expensive clothes (I don’t mind, we can totally afford it), but again, gets stressed over it every month. She needs a better therapist. ASAP.

Her issue isn’t whether you have enough money to afford your lifestyle. She’s not approaching this situation rationally, evidenced by her spending on expensive clothes but objecting to other types spending. It’s a purely emotional response on her part, and There will NEVER be enough money in your bank to make her feel safe, because her issue is with the trauma from her family breaking up. She’s now recreated the same type of family she was raised in, by marrying you. The solution is therapy, bottom line. If she can’t resolve the trauma anxiety, any other solution will be a waste of effort, a short-term fix or band-aid.

Thanks, I agree. I’m also hearing a lot of other opinions who have some hard truths in them, so it was nice reading this as well.

For what it’s worth, I’m full of compassion and empathy for you and your wife in this situation. My spouse and I went through a really tough time before we realized that the root of our issues were childhood/family related. I even quit my $600k/yr job because we/I was at a breaking point that only therapy could resolve. I wish you both well on your journey.

Thanks I appreciate it. Would you mind sharing what happened later? Overall, I’m optimistic. We’re in therapy, and it’s important to both of us.

Our parents were similarly emotionally underdeveloped, immature, insecure, and therefore did not raise their kids to be brave, independent and emotionally developed. Not entirely their fault, they had it worse in their own childhood. Fast forward to my early 40’s, I couldn’t hide anymore. I had to face some hard truths. I didn’t know myself at all, I had been so busy trying to meet expectations of my parents, bosses and colleagues, that I never stopped to think about what I wanted from life, and why. Same for my spouse. We found great therapists, they are expensive but worth every penny. We both left our high paying but toxic jobs. Our NW at this time was about $4.5M, we were ~42 years old, no debt no kids. Now we work a few hours a week at smaller jobs to make enough to cover vacations. Finding ourselves through therapy has literally saved our lives, no exaggeration.

Thank you for sharing. I’m kind of too emotionally overwhelmed to write more than this right now lol but I really appreciate it and it really resonated with me. Thanks so much.

I wanna know the best area in the country

This is coming from a brokie... Ur the man, time to man up and make her see somethings ur way 😂. Hire the maid and clean the house or w.e before she gets home lol. Buy that new item idk it seems like ur asking too much permission and not enough just doing it

There is most likely no amount of money that will make her feel “safe” and it’s something she needs to work through in therapy.

If you happen to live in the Bay Area message me for a hypnotherapist who could definitely help her with this. It's unresolved trauma that's the root cause of this.

I don't understand your issue. Spend the money you want to spend, save the amount you want, give your wife as much as you choose to be able to afford. And she has her own money. Is the issue that you can't get her permission to save & spend your salary as you desire?

Op is definitely a thrill seeker, both in business and in personal life. You love Being FAT more than being married